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\"start\": 440.858, \"end\": 440.878, \"score\": 0.077}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,130 --> 00:00:02,111\n現在我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢\n\n2\n00:00:16,022 --> 00:00:29,925\n主席在場委員先進列席的政府計劃署長官員會長工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生有請內政部的董事長那另外多一點我們建築研究所的王所長能源署的吳副署長還有台電的郭總工程師\n\n3\n00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:48,650\n好請各位置備訓台好委員好好那麼次長各位相關主管長官我這邊呢要問建築內充電樁法規要競速完善電動車那虛擬電廠要超前部署但在這個問題之前我們看一下今天的題目前面問很多了我們看第一頁\n\n4\n00:00:49,651 --> 00:01:09,665\n首先電動車充電充滿爭議其實就是安全顧慮跟消費糾紛目前的公寓大樓其實蓋在這幾年以前的比比皆是多數的用戶他的停車並沒有使用電動車但是看到了失火的新聞充電樁起火的新聞住戶擔心他的安全\n\n5\n00:01:10,509 --> 00:01:22,595\n但是要買房子的人呢他如果有電動車他希望買到的車位有充電樁那請問到目前為止次長就你綜合上五個位委員的詢問那你認為關鍵要從哪裡去解決\n\n6\n00:01:24,585 --> 00:01:49,018\n好感謝委員垂詢那委員這張圖講得非常清楚其實我想最關鍵的議題還是在於就是說災害的防治的問題沒有我認為是法規的問題法規呢我就會告訴你本來這個預售屋的這些記名仔的事項呢當然是國土署他們在處理的但是我們看看這個第二頁公寓大樓管理條例裡面寫的設置管線\n\n7\n00:01:50,038 --> 00:02:01,465\n這第六條住戶要遵守對不對但是呢同樣的拆除呢也要如果官媒不同意你現在就動彈不得在現有的建築要處理充電樁要動這個條例市長您看呢如果你不動這個條例你要怎麼去處理\n\n8\n00:02:09,678 --> 00:02:31,733\n現有的大樓啊現有的大樓原則上我們還是以那個安全為主現在將安全的相關的規範做好之後我想我們就會去輔導各個管委會進行相關輔導沒有辦法強制嘛大家不同意就不行嘛跟委員報告因為我想大家最主要是安全上有疑慮嘛所以我們剛才也包括召委也提到說資訊的充分溝通是很重要的那只是一個假設啦\n\n9\n00:02:32,474 --> 00:02:41,934\n好來我想這個是法規你們要去研議第二個問題談到這個法規接下來要請台電跟我們的建築管理研究所的所長\n\n10\n00:02:43,001 --> 00:03:08,508\n其實我個人過去啊從小在屏東長大只要颱風難保不會積水一積水地下是灌水整個大樓後來的大樓它的配電是進水了台電要怎麼辦第一水要抽乾第二配電是要電線都烘乾然後才能開始進行附電只要有一棟大樓在你們的迴路當中沒有辦法到這個程度整個迴路的用電都沒有辦法附電是不是這樣\n\n11\n00:03:10,563 --> 00:03:27,619\n是委員講的對是好那現在問題來了有沒有規定新建的大樓配電是不得設於地面以下有沒有規定你們的營業規則有沒有規定這個是規定在建築你們營業規則也有寫你們要送電你要申請用電你必須配電是要在地面層以上有沒有例外\n\n12\n00:03:28,467 --> 00:03:48,532\n有切解嘛是來所長我剛剛問了總工程師他說建築法規如果規定是強制什麼樣規格以上的建築物它的配件是必須設在地面層以上建築法規規定了台電絕對遵辦建築法規有沒有這個規定目前確實沒有限制有規定啦原則啦你們是寫原則啦所以\n\n13\n00:03:52,333 --> 00:04:13,864\n社長來接下來請你了你要去督導今天不是只有電動車充電狀的問題整個未來的工業集合大樓它的供電系統它需要做整個法規的研修可不可以承諾相關的法規邀請建築研究所台電公司做一個配套的整個的翻修可以嗎可以好可以來接下來請我們來看看有沒有聽過斑斑有冷氣\n\n14\n00:04:15,407 --> 00:04:42,007\n有斑斑用冷氣後面的一個潛台詞叫做校校發電廠為什麼因為斑斑用冷氣它要裝一個EMS的能源管理系統這個時候它不只能夠供應日光燈的用電可以供應冷氣的用電它能夠應付比較大的電量就像充電樁它必須應付較大的充電車電動車的容量但是學校只要有屋頂型太陽光電板這個學校就變成什麼變成一個發電廠\n\n15\n00:04:43,379 --> 00:04:55,355\n太陽光電板加上這個EMS那加上一個儲電設施這個學校就可以成為社區的供電中心你同意嗎是好那往下看其實電動車一般人買的電動車行駛的時間占高還是停的時間占比例高\n\n16\n00:04:59,799 --> 00:05:12,992\n應該是停的時間對電動車停止的時候它就是一個什麼主電設施啦它停在建築物內部的時候它就是一個material所以呢其實我們在談未來的電動車用量會上升我們有一個什麼東西虛擬電廠往下看\n\n17\n00:05:17,355 --> 00:05:30,774\n所以台電也在思考V2G我們怎麼樣台電的虛擬電廠必須搭配都市裡面每個大樓都有儲能設施這個虛擬電廠就會運作了解了嗎了解了台電是不是這樣子\n\n18\n00:05:33,822 --> 00:05:52,495\n是的所以我們最近在修電源法就有把這個概念放到新的電源法裡面去定如果未來我們的民眾都用電動車他停在公寓大樓裡面的停車場問題不是消極的去擔心充電窗的電容夠不夠擔心他安全能力夠不夠\n\n19\n00:05:53,095 --> 00:06:07,935\n重點是在於我們的這個電路系統建築法規有沒有配套把這樣的電動車視為大樓的儲能設施配合上屋頂型光電板虛擬電廠就可以推動了有沒有估算過它的電力供應會多大台電有沒有估算能源有沒有估算\n\n20\n00:06:09,510 --> 00:06:34,763\n呃有我們其實這個計畫其實我們呃在小型的實驗計畫都有在做了是就是說這個其實就是我們說的這個叫做Aggregator的概念就是他把太陽光電加上電池的加做整個調和然後配合台電做調度所以你買了輛電動車你的電池可以在離風時候的便宜用電幫台電儲電然後在尖峰用電高電價的時候你的電動車如果沒有在行駛你把你的電力賣給電網還可以賺差價是不是這樣子\n\n21\n00:06:38,304 --> 00:07:03,894\n是的好社長你覺得這個願景是不是比起我們在關心大樓裡面的充電窗會不會失火必須更前端的去部署是好來我們結論了好今天時間有限請研擬完善建築內充電窗法規的方案這是目前眼前的要求其中包含了建築法規跟台電的營業規則對於大樓的配電室應設置的位置相關的容量一併檢討可以嗎\n\n22\n00:07:05,154 --> 00:07:20,878\n好我們來努力第二個請跟能源署你們一起來到經濟部的能源署經濟部內政部一起電動車納虛擬電廠方案能不能提出一個報告能源署可以嗎可以那政府願意配合嗎我們可以配合好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1130\t2111\t現在我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢\n16022\t29925\t主席 在場委員先進列席的政府計劃署長 官員 會長 工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生有請內政部的董事長那另外多一點我們建築研究所的王所長能源署的吳副署長還有台電的郭總工程師\n31800\t48650\t好 請各位置備訓台好 委員好好 那麼次長 各位相關主管長官我這邊呢 要問建築內充電樁法規要競速完善電動車那虛擬電廠要超前部署但在這個問題之前 我們看一下今天的題目前面問很多了 我們看第一頁\n49651\t69665\t首先電動車充電充滿爭議其實就是安全顧慮跟消費糾紛目前的公寓大樓其實蓋在這幾年以前的比比皆是多數的用戶他的停車並沒有使用電動車但是看到了失火的新聞充電樁起火的新聞住戶擔心他的安全\n70509\t82595\t但是要買房子的人呢他如果有電動車他希望買到的車位有充電樁那請問到目前為止次長就你綜合上五個位委員的詢問那你認為關鍵要從哪裡去解決\n84585\t109018\t好 感謝委員垂詢那委員這張圖講得非常清楚其實我想最關鍵的議題還是在於就是說災害的防治的問題沒有 我認為是法規的問題法規呢 我就會告訴你本來這個預售屋的這些記名仔的事項呢當然是國土署他們在處理的但是我們看看這個第二頁公寓大樓管理條例裡面寫的設置管線\n110038\t121465\t這第六條 住戶要遵守 對不對但是呢 同樣的拆除呢 也要如果官媒不同意 你現在就動彈不得在現有的建築要處理充電樁要動這個條例 市長您看呢如果你不動這個條例 你要怎麼去處理\n129678\t151733\t現有的大樓啊現有的大樓原則上我們還是以那個安全為主現在將安全的相關的規範做好之後我想我們就會去輔導各個管委會進行相關輔導沒有辦法強制嘛大家不同意就不行嘛跟委員報告因為我想大家最主要是安全上有疑慮嘛所以我們剛才也包括召委也提到說資訊的充分溝通是很重要的那只是一個假設啦\n152474\t161934\t好 來我想這個是法規你們要去研議第二個問題談到這個法規接下來要請台電跟我們的建築管理研究所的所長\n163001\t188508\t其實我個人過去啊 從小在屏東長大只要颱風 難保不會積水 一積水 地下是灌水整個大樓 後來的大樓 它的配電是進水了台電要怎麼辦 第一 水要抽乾第二 配電是要電線都烘乾 然後才能開始進行附電只要有一棟大樓在你們的迴路當中 沒有辦法到這個程度整個迴路的用電都沒有辦法附電 是不是這樣\n190563\t207619\t是委員講的對是好那現在問題來了有沒有規定新建的大樓配電是不得設於地面以下有沒有規定你們的營業規則有沒有規定這個是規定在建築你們營業規則也有寫你們要送電你要申請用電你必須配電是要在地面層以上有沒有例外\n208467\t228532\t有 切解嘛是 來 所長我剛剛問了總工程師他說建築法規如果規定是強制什麼樣規格以上的建築物它的配件是必須設在地面層以上建築法規規定了 台電絕對遵辦建築法規有沒有這個規定目前確實沒有限制有規定啦原則啦你們是寫原則啦所以\n232333\t253864\t社長來接下來請你了你要去督導今天不是只有電動車充電狀的問題整個未來的工業集合大樓它的供電系統它需要做整個法規的研修可不可以承諾相關的法規邀請建築研究所台電公司做一個配套的整個的翻修可以嗎可以好可以來接下來請我們來看看有沒有聽過斑斑有冷氣\n255407\t282007\t有 斑斑用冷氣後面的一個潛台詞叫做校校發電廠為什麼因為斑斑用冷氣它要裝一個EMS的能源管理系統這個時候它不只能夠供應日光燈的用電可以供應冷氣的用電它能夠應付比較大的電量就像充電樁它必須應付較大的充電車電動車的容量但是學校只要有屋頂型太陽光電板這個學校就變成什麼變成一個發電廠\n283379\t295355\t太陽光電板加上這個EMS那加上一個儲電設施這個學校就可以成為社區的供電中心你同意嗎是好 那往下看其實電動車一般人買的電動車行駛的時間占高還是停的時間占比例高\n299799\t312992\t應該是停的時間對電動車停止的時候它就是一個什麼主電設施啦它停在建築物內部的時候它就是一個material所以呢其實我們在談未來的電動車用量會上升我們有一個什麼東西虛擬電廠往下看\n317355\t330774\t所以台電也在思考V2G我們怎麼樣台電的虛擬電廠必須搭配都市裡面每個大樓都有儲能設施這個虛擬電廠就會運作了解了嗎了解了 台電是不是這樣子\n333822\t352495\t是的所以我們最近在修電源法就有把這個概念放到新的電源法裡面去定如果未來我們的民眾都用電動車他停在公寓大樓裡面的停車場問題不是消極的去擔心充電窗的電容夠不夠擔心他安全能力夠不夠\n353095\t367935\t重點是在於我們的這個電路系統 建築法規有沒有配套把這樣的電動車視為大樓的儲能設施配合上屋頂型光電板 虛擬電廠就可以推動了有沒有估算過它的電力供應會多大台電有沒有估算 能源有沒有估算\n369510\t394763\t呃有我們其實這個計畫其實我們呃在小型的實驗計畫都有在做了是就是說這個其實就是我們說的這個叫做Aggregator的概念就是他把太陽光電加上電池的加做整個調和然後配合台電做調度所以你買了輛電動車你的電池可以在離風時候的便宜用電幫台電儲電然後在尖峰用電高電價的時候你的電動車如果沒有在行駛你把你的電力賣給電網還可以賺差價是不是這樣子\n398304\t423894\t是的好 社長你覺得這個願景是不是比起我們在關心大樓裡面的充電窗會不會失火必須更前端的去部署是好 來 我們結論了好 今天時間有限請研擬完善建築內充電窗法規的方案這是目前眼前的要求其中包含了建築法規跟台電的營業規則對於大樓的配電室應設置的位置相關的容量一併檢討 可以嗎\n425154\t440878\t好 我們來努力第二個 請跟能源署你們一起來 到經濟部的能源署 經濟部內政部一起電動車納虛擬電廠方案能不能提出一個報告能源署可以嗎可以那政府願意配合嗎我們可以配合好 謝謝\n","txt":"現在我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢\n主席 在場委員先進列席的政府計劃署長 官員 會長 工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生有請內政部的董事長那另外多一點我們建築研究所的王所長能源署的吳副署長還有台電的郭總工程師\n好 請各位置備訓台好 委員好好 那麼次長 各位相關主管長官我這邊呢 要問建築內充電樁法規要競速完善電動車那虛擬電廠要超前部署但在這個問題之前 我們看一下今天的題目前面問很多了 我們看第一頁\n首先電動車充電充滿爭議其實就是安全顧慮跟消費糾紛目前的公寓大樓其實蓋在這幾年以前的比比皆是多數的用戶他的停車並沒有使用電動車但是看到了失火的新聞充電樁起火的新聞住戶擔心他的安全\n但是要買房子的人呢他如果有電動車他希望買到的車位有充電樁那請問到目前為止次長就你綜合上五個位委員的詢問那你認為關鍵要從哪裡去解決\n好 感謝委員垂詢那委員這張圖講得非常清楚其實我想最關鍵的議題還是在於就是說災害的防治的問題沒有 我認為是法規的問題法規呢 我就會告訴你本來這個預售屋的這些記名仔的事項呢當然是國土署他們在處理的但是我們看看這個第二頁公寓大樓管理條例裡面寫的設置管線\n這第六條 住戶要遵守 對不對但是呢 同樣的拆除呢 也要如果官媒不同意 你現在就動彈不得在現有的建築要處理充電樁要動這個條例 市長您看呢如果你不動這個條例 你要怎麼去處理\n現有的大樓啊現有的大樓原則上我們還是以那個安全為主現在將安全的相關的規範做好之後我想我們就會去輔導各個管委會進行相關輔導沒有辦法強制嘛大家不同意就不行嘛跟委員報告因為我想大家最主要是安全上有疑慮嘛所以我們剛才也包括召委也提到說資訊的充分溝通是很重要的那只是一個假設啦\n好 來我想這個是法規你們要去研議第二個問題談到這個法規接下來要請台電跟我們的建築管理研究所的所長\n其實我個人過去啊 從小在屏東長大只要颱風 難保不會積水 一積水 地下是灌水整個大樓 後來的大樓 它的配電是進水了台電要怎麼辦 第一 水要抽乾第二 配電是要電線都烘乾 然後才能開始進行附電只要有一棟大樓在你們的迴路當中 沒有辦法到這個程度整個迴路的用電都沒有辦法附電 是不是這樣\n是委員講的對是好那現在問題來了有沒有規定新建的大樓配電是不得設於地面以下有沒有規定你們的營業規則有沒有規定這個是規定在建築你們營業規則也有寫你們要送電你要申請用電你必須配電是要在地面層以上有沒有例外\n有 切解嘛是 來 所長我剛剛問了總工程師他說建築法規如果規定是強制什麼樣規格以上的建築物它的配件是必須設在地面層以上建築法規規定了 台電絕對遵辦建築法規有沒有這個規定目前確實沒有限制有規定啦原則啦你們是寫原則啦所以\n社長來接下來請你了你要去督導今天不是只有電動車充電狀的問題整個未來的工業集合大樓它的供電系統它需要做整個法規的研修可不可以承諾相關的法規邀請建築研究所台電公司做一個配套的整個的翻修可以嗎可以好可以來接下來請我們來看看有沒有聽過斑斑有冷氣\n有 斑斑用冷氣後面的一個潛台詞叫做校校發電廠為什麼因為斑斑用冷氣它要裝一個EMS的能源管理系統這個時候它不只能夠供應日光燈的用電可以供應冷氣的用電它能夠應付比較大的電量就像充電樁它必須應付較大的充電車電動車的容量但是學校只要有屋頂型太陽光電板這個學校就變成什麼變成一個發電廠\n太陽光電板加上這個EMS那加上一個儲電設施這個學校就可以成為社區的供電中心你同意嗎是好 那往下看其實電動車一般人買的電動車行駛的時間占高還是停的時間占比例高\n應該是停的時間對電動車停止的時候它就是一個什麼主電設施啦它停在建築物內部的時候它就是一個material所以呢其實我們在談未來的電動車用量會上升我們有一個什麼東西虛擬電廠往下看\n所以台電也在思考V2G我們怎麼樣台電的虛擬電廠必須搭配都市裡面每個大樓都有儲能設施這個虛擬電廠就會運作了解了嗎了解了 台電是不是這樣子\n是的所以我們最近在修電源法就有把這個概念放到新的電源法裡面去定如果未來我們的民眾都用電動車他停在公寓大樓裡面的停車場問題不是消極的去擔心充電窗的電容夠不夠擔心他安全能力夠不夠\n重點是在於我們的這個電路系統 建築法規有沒有配套把這樣的電動車視為大樓的儲能設施配合上屋頂型光電板 虛擬電廠就可以推動了有沒有估算過它的電力供應會多大台電有沒有估算 能源有沒有估算\n呃有我們其實這個計畫其實我們呃在小型的實驗計畫都有在做了是就是說這個其實就是我們說的這個叫做Aggregator的概念就是他把太陽光電加上電池的加做整個調和然後配合台電做調度所以你買了輛電動車你的電池可以在離風時候的便宜用電幫台電儲電然後在尖峰用電高電價的時候你的電動車如果沒有在行駛你把你的電力賣給電網還可以賺差價是不是這樣子\n是的好 社長你覺得這個願景是不是比起我們在關心大樓裡面的充電窗會不會失火必須更前端的去部署是好 來 我們結論了好 今天時間有限請研擬完善建築內充電窗法規的方案這是目前眼前的要求其中包含了建築法規跟台電的營業規則對於大樓的配電室應設置的位置相關的容量一併檢討 可以嗎\n好 我們來努力第二個 請跟能源署你們一起來 到經濟部的能源署 經濟部內政部一起電動車納虛擬電廠方案能不能提出一個報告能源署可以嗎可以那政府願意配合嗎我們可以配合好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.130 --> 00:02.111\n現在我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢\n\n00:16.022 --> 00:29.925\n主席在場委員先進列席的政府計劃署長官員會長工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生有請內政部的董事長那另外多一點我們建築研究所的王所長能源署的吳副署長還有台電的郭總工程師\n\n00:31.800 --> 00:48.650\n好請各位置備訓台好委員好好那麼次長各位相關主管長官我這邊呢要問建築內充電樁法規要競速完善電動車那虛擬電廠要超前部署但在這個問題之前我們看一下今天的題目前面問很多了我們看第一頁\n\n00:49.651 --> 01:09.665\n首先電動車充電充滿爭議其實就是安全顧慮跟消費糾紛目前的公寓大樓其實蓋在這幾年以前的比比皆是多數的用戶他的停車並沒有使用電動車但是看到了失火的新聞充電樁起火的新聞住戶擔心他的安全\n\n01:10.509 --> 01:22.595\n但是要買房子的人呢他如果有電動車他希望買到的車位有充電樁那請問到目前為止次長就你綜合上五個位委員的詢問那你認為關鍵要從哪裡去解決\n\n01:24.585 --> 01:49.018\n好感謝委員垂詢那委員這張圖講得非常清楚其實我想最關鍵的議題還是在於就是說災害的防治的問題沒有我認為是法規的問題法規呢我就會告訴你本來這個預售屋的這些記名仔的事項呢當然是國土署他們在處理的但是我們看看這個第二頁公寓大樓管理條例裡面寫的設置管線\n\n01:50.038 --> 02:01.465\n這第六條住戶要遵守對不對但是呢同樣的拆除呢也要如果官媒不同意你現在就動彈不得在現有的建築要處理充電樁要動這個條例市長您看呢如果你不動這個條例你要怎麼去處理\n\n02:09.678 --> 02:31.733\n現有的大樓啊現有的大樓原則上我們還是以那個安全為主現在將安全的相關的規範做好之後我想我們就會去輔導各個管委會進行相關輔導沒有辦法強制嘛大家不同意就不行嘛跟委員報告因為我想大家最主要是安全上有疑慮嘛所以我們剛才也包括召委也提到說資訊的充分溝通是很重要的那只是一個假設啦\n\n02:32.474 --> 02:41.934\n好來我想這個是法規你們要去研議第二個問題談到這個法規接下來要請台電跟我們的建築管理研究所的所長\n\n02:43.001 --> 03:08.508\n其實我個人過去啊從小在屏東長大只要颱風難保不會積水一積水地下是灌水整個大樓後來的大樓它的配電是進水了台電要怎麼辦第一水要抽乾第二配電是要電線都烘乾然後才能開始進行附電只要有一棟大樓在你們的迴路當中沒有辦法到這個程度整個迴路的用電都沒有辦法附電是不是這樣\n\n03:10.563 --> 03:27.619\n是委員講的對是好那現在問題來了有沒有規定新建的大樓配電是不得設於地面以下有沒有規定你們的營業規則有沒有規定這個是規定在建築你們營業規則也有寫你們要送電你要申請用電你必須配電是要在地面層以上有沒有例外\n\n03:28.467 --> 03:48.532\n有切解嘛是來所長我剛剛問了總工程師他說建築法規如果規定是強制什麼樣規格以上的建築物它的配件是必須設在地面層以上建築法規規定了台電絕對遵辦建築法規有沒有這個規定目前確實沒有限制有規定啦原則啦你們是寫原則啦所以\n\n03:52.333 --> 04:13.864\n社長來接下來請你了你要去督導今天不是只有電動車充電狀的問題整個未來的工業集合大樓它的供電系統它需要做整個法規的研修可不可以承諾相關的法規邀請建築研究所台電公司做一個配套的整個的翻修可以嗎可以好可以來接下來請我們來看看有沒有聽過斑斑有冷氣\n\n04:15.407 --> 04:42.007\n有斑斑用冷氣後面的一個潛台詞叫做校校發電廠為什麼因為斑斑用冷氣它要裝一個EMS的能源管理系統這個時候它不只能夠供應日光燈的用電可以供應冷氣的用電它能夠應付比較大的電量就像充電樁它必須應付較大的充電車電動車的容量但是學校只要有屋頂型太陽光電板這個學校就變成什麼變成一個發電廠\n\n04:43.379 --> 04:55.355\n太陽光電板加上這個EMS那加上一個儲電設施這個學校就可以成為社區的供電中心你同意嗎是好那往下看其實電動車一般人買的電動車行駛的時間占高還是停的時間占比例高\n\n04:59.799 --> 05:12.992\n應該是停的時間對電動車停止的時候它就是一個什麼主電設施啦它停在建築物內部的時候它就是一個material所以呢其實我們在談未來的電動車用量會上升我們有一個什麼東西虛擬電廠往下看\n\n05:17.355 --> 05:30.774\n所以台電也在思考V2G我們怎麼樣台電的虛擬電廠必須搭配都市裡面每個大樓都有儲能設施這個虛擬電廠就會運作了解了嗎了解了台電是不是這樣子\n\n05:33.822 --> 05:52.495\n是的所以我們最近在修電源法就有把這個概念放到新的電源法裡面去定如果未來我們的民眾都用電動車他停在公寓大樓裡面的停車場問題不是消極的去擔心充電窗的電容夠不夠擔心他安全能力夠不夠\n\n05:53.095 --> 06:07.935\n重點是在於我們的這個電路系統建築法規有沒有配套把這樣的電動車視為大樓的儲能設施配合上屋頂型光電板虛擬電廠就可以推動了有沒有估算過它的電力供應會多大台電有沒有估算能源有沒有估算\n\n06:09.510 --> 06:34.763\n呃有我們其實這個計畫其實我們呃在小型的實驗計畫都有在做了是就是說這個其實就是我們說的這個叫做Aggregator的概念就是他把太陽光電加上電池的加做整個調和然後配合台電做調度所以你買了輛電動車你的電池可以在離風時候的便宜用電幫台電儲電然後在尖峰用電高電價的時候你的電動車如果沒有在行駛你把你的電力賣給電網還可以賺差價是不是這樣子\n\n06:38.304 --> 07:03.894\n是的好社長你覺得這個願景是不是比起我們在關心大樓裡面的充電窗會不會失火必須更前端的去部署是好來我們結論了好今天時間有限請研擬完善建築內充電窗法規的方案這是目前眼前的要求其中包含了建築法規跟台電的營業規則對於大樓的配電室應設置的位置相關的容量一併檢討可以嗎\n\n07:05.154 --> 07:20.878\n好我們來努力第二個請跟能源署你們一起來到經濟部的能源署經濟部內政部一起電動車納虛擬電廠方案能不能提出一個報告能源署可以嗎可以那政府願意配合嗎我們可以配合好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.13,"end":2.111,"text":"現在我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢"},{"start":16.022,"end":29.925,"text":"主席 在場委員先進列席的政府計劃署長 官員 會長 工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生有請內政部的董事長那另外多一點我們建築研究所的王所長能源署的吳副署長還有台電的郭總工程師"},{"start":31.8,"end":48.65,"text":"好 請各位置備訓台好 委員好好 那麼次長 各位相關主管長官我這邊呢 要問建築內充電樁法規要競速完善電動車那虛擬電廠要超前部署但在這個問題之前 我們看一下今天的題目前面問很多了 我們看第一頁"},{"start":49.651,"end":69.665,"text":"首先電動車充電充滿爭議其實就是安全顧慮跟消費糾紛目前的公寓大樓其實蓋在這幾年以前的比比皆是多數的用戶他的停車並沒有使用電動車但是看到了失火的新聞充電樁起火的新聞住戶擔心他的安全"},{"start":70.509,"end":82.595,"text":"但是要買房子的人呢他如果有電動車他希望買到的車位有充電樁那請問到目前為止次長就你綜合上五個位委員的詢問那你認為關鍵要從哪裡去解決"},{"start":84.585,"end":109.018,"text":"好 感謝委員垂詢那委員這張圖講得非常清楚其實我想最關鍵的議題還是在於就是說災害的防治的問題沒有 我認為是法規的問題法規呢 我就會告訴你本來這個預售屋的這些記名仔的事項呢當然是國土署他們在處理的但是我們看看這個第二頁公寓大樓管理條例裡面寫的設置管線"},{"start":110.038,"end":121.465,"text":"這第六條 住戶要遵守 對不對但是呢 同樣的拆除呢 也要如果官媒不同意 你現在就動彈不得在現有的建築要處理充電樁要動這個條例 市長您看呢如果你不動這個條例 你要怎麼去處理"},{"start":129.678,"end":151.733,"text":"現有的大樓啊現有的大樓原則上我們還是以那個安全為主現在將安全的相關的規範做好之後我想我們就會去輔導各個管委會進行相關輔導沒有辦法強制嘛大家不同意就不行嘛跟委員報告因為我想大家最主要是安全上有疑慮嘛所以我們剛才也包括召委也提到說資訊的充分溝通是很重要的那只是一個假設啦"},{"start":152.474,"end":161.934,"text":"好 來我想這個是法規你們要去研議第二個問題談到這個法規接下來要請台電跟我們的建築管理研究所的所長"},{"start":163.001,"end":188.508,"text":"其實我個人過去啊 從小在屏東長大只要颱風 難保不會積水 一積水 地下是灌水整個大樓 後來的大樓 它的配電是進水了台電要怎麼辦 第一 水要抽乾第二 配電是要電線都烘乾 然後才能開始進行附電只要有一棟大樓在你們的迴路當中 沒有辦法到這個程度整個迴路的用電都沒有辦法附電 是不是這樣"},{"start":190.563,"end":207.619,"text":"是委員講的對是好那現在問題來了有沒有規定新建的大樓配電是不得設於地面以下有沒有規定你們的營業規則有沒有規定這個是規定在建築你們營業規則也有寫你們要送電你要申請用電你必須配電是要在地面層以上有沒有例外"},{"start":208.467,"end":228.532,"text":"有 切解嘛是 來 所長我剛剛問了總工程師他說建築法規如果規定是強制什麼樣規格以上的建築物它的配件是必須設在地面層以上建築法規規定了 台電絕對遵辦建築法規有沒有這個規定目前確實沒有限制有規定啦原則啦你們是寫原則啦所以"},{"start":232.333,"end":253.864,"text":"社長來接下來請你了你要去督導今天不是只有電動車充電狀的問題整個未來的工業集合大樓它的供電系統它需要做整個法規的研修可不可以承諾相關的法規邀請建築研究所台電公司做一個配套的整個的翻修可以嗎可以好可以來接下來請我們來看看有沒有聽過斑斑有冷氣"},{"start":255.407,"end":282.007,"text":"有 斑斑用冷氣後面的一個潛台詞叫做校校發電廠為什麼因為斑斑用冷氣它要裝一個EMS的能源管理系統這個時候它不只能夠供應日光燈的用電可以供應冷氣的用電它能夠應付比較大的電量就像充電樁它必須應付較大的充電車電動車的容量但是學校只要有屋頂型太陽光電板這個學校就變成什麼變成一個發電廠"},{"start":283.379,"end":295.355,"text":"太陽光電板加上這個EMS那加上一個儲電設施這個學校就可以成為社區的供電中心你同意嗎是好 那往下看其實電動車一般人買的電動車行駛的時間占高還是停的時間占比例高"},{"start":299.799,"end":312.992,"text":"應該是停的時間對電動車停止的時候它就是一個什麼主電設施啦它停在建築物內部的時候它就是一個material所以呢其實我們在談未來的電動車用量會上升我們有一個什麼東西虛擬電廠往下看"},{"start":317.355,"end":330.774,"text":"所以台電也在思考V2G我們怎麼樣台電的虛擬電廠必須搭配都市裡面每個大樓都有儲能設施這個虛擬電廠就會運作了解了嗎了解了 台電是不是這樣子"},{"start":333.822,"end":352.495,"text":"是的所以我們最近在修電源法就有把這個概念放到新的電源法裡面去定如果未來我們的民眾都用電動車他停在公寓大樓裡面的停車場問題不是消極的去擔心充電窗的電容夠不夠擔心他安全能力夠不夠"},{"start":353.095,"end":367.935,"text":"重點是在於我們的這個電路系統 建築法規有沒有配套把這樣的電動車視為大樓的儲能設施配合上屋頂型光電板 虛擬電廠就可以推動了有沒有估算過它的電力供應會多大台電有沒有估算 能源有沒有估算"},{"start":369.51,"end":394.763,"text":"呃有我們其實這個計畫其實我們呃在小型的實驗計畫都有在做了是就是說這個其實就是我們說的這個叫做Aggregator的概念就是他把太陽光電加上電池的加做整個調和然後配合台電做調度所以你買了輛電動車你的電池可以在離風時候的便宜用電幫台電儲電然後在尖峰用電高電價的時候你的電動車如果沒有在行駛你把你的電力賣給電網還可以賺差價是不是這樣子"},{"start":398.304,"end":423.894,"text":"是的好 社長你覺得這個願景是不是比起我們在關心大樓裡面的充電窗會不會失火必須更前端的去部署是好 來 我們結論了好 今天時間有限請研擬完善建築內充電窗法規的方案這是目前眼前的要求其中包含了建築法規跟台電的營業規則對於大樓的配電室應設置的位置相關的容量一併檢討 可以嗎"},{"start":425.154,"end":440.878,"text":"好 我們來努力第二個 請跟能源署你們一起來 到經濟部的能源署 經濟部內政部一起電動車納虛擬電廠方案能不能提出一個報告能源署可以嗎可以那政府願意配合嗎我們可以配合好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":942,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時57分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請內政部董次長。"],["主席：董次長有請。"],["鍾委員佳濱：另外，請多一點，我們建築研究所的王所長。"],["主席：建研所。"],["鍾委員佳濱：能源署的吳副署長，還有台電的郭總工程師。"],["主席：請各位至備詢臺。"],["董次長建宏：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：次長、各位相關主管長官，我這邊要問「建築內充電樁法規要盡速完善，電動車納虛擬電廠要超前部署」，但是在這個問題之前，我們看一下今天的題目，前面已經問很多了，我們看簡報第1頁，首先是電動車充電充滿爭議啊！其實就是安全顧慮跟消費糾紛，目前的公寓大樓蓋在這幾年以前的比比皆是，多數的用戶並沒有使用電動車，但是看到了失火的新聞、充電樁起火的新聞，住戶會擔心他的安全。但是要買房子的人如果有電動車，他希望買到的車位有充電樁，請問到目前為止，次長，就你綜合上午各位委員的詢問，你認為關鍵要從哪裡去解決？"],["董次長建宏：首先感謝委員垂詢，委員這張圖講得非常清楚，我想最關鍵的議題還是在於災害防制的問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有，我認為是法規的問題，法規我直接告訴你，本來預售屋這些記明載的事項當然是國土署他們在處理的，但是我們看看第2頁，公寓大樓管理條例裡面寫的「設置管線」，這個第六條住戶要遵守，對不對？但是同樣的，「拆除」也要，如果管委會不同意，你現在就動彈不得。在現有的建築要處理充電樁就要動這個條例，次長，您看呢？如果你不動這個條例，你怎麼去處理？"],["董次長建宏：原則上我們還是……"],["鍾委員佳濱：現有的大樓啊！"],["董次長建宏：對，現有的大樓原則上我們還是以安全為主，將安全相關的規範做好之後，我們就會去輔導各個管委會進行相關的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：輔導沒有辦法強制嘛！它只要不同意就不行嘛！"],["董次長建宏：跟委員報告，因為大家最主要是安全上有疑慮，所以剛剛包括召委也提到，資訊的充分溝通是很重要的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那只是一個假設啦！好，我想這個是法規，你們要去研議。","第二個問題，談到這個法規，接下來要請台電跟建築研究所的所長，其實我個人過去從小在屏東長大，只要有颱風，難保不會積水，一積水地下室就灌水，後來的大樓它的配電室進水了，台電要怎麼辦？第一，水要抽乾；第二，配電室要電線都烘乾，然後才能開始進行復電，只要有一棟大樓在你們的迴路當中沒有辦法到這個程度，整個迴路的用電都沒有辦法復電，是不是這樣？"],["郭專業總工程師芳楠：是，委員講得對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那現在問題來了，有沒有規定新建的大樓配電室不得設於地面以下？有沒有規定？你們的營業規則有沒有規定？"],["郭專業總工程師芳楠：這個是規定在建築技術……"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們的營業規則也有寫，你們要送電，你來申請用電，你必須配電室要在地面層以上，有沒有例外？"],["郭專業總工程師芳楠：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有，切結嘛！"],["郭專業總工程師芳楠：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：來，所長，我剛剛問了總工程師，他說建築法規如果規定強制什麼樣規格以上的建築物的配電室必須設在地面層以上，建築法規規定了，台電絕對遵辦，建築法規有沒有這個規定？"],["王所長榮進：目前確實沒有限制……"],["鍾委員佳濱：有規定啦！原則啦！"],["王所長榮進：沒有要求一定要設在路面……"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們是寫原則啦！"],["王所長榮進：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以次長，接下來請你了，你要去督導，今天不是只有電動車充電樁的問題，未來公寓集合大樓的供電系統需要做整個法規的研修，可不可以承諾相關的法規會邀集建築研究所、台電公司來做整個配套的翻修？可以嗎？"],["董次長建宏：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，可以。接下來我們來看看，有沒有聽過「班班有冷氣」？"],["董次長建宏：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：「班班有冷氣」後面的一個潛臺詞叫做「校校發電廠」，為什麼？因為「班班有冷氣」它有裝一個EMS的能源管理系統，這個時候它不只能夠供應日光燈的用電，可以供應冷氣的用電，它能夠應付比較大的電量，就像充電樁它必須應付較大的充電車、電動車的容量，但是學校只有屋頂型太陽光電板，這個學校就變成什麼？變成一個發電廠，太陽光電板加上這個EMS，再加上一個儲電設施，這個學校就可以成為社區的供電中心，你同意嗎？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，往下看。其實一般人買了電動車，是行駛的時間還是停的時間占的比例高？"],["董次長建宏：應該是停的時間。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，電動車停止的時候，它就是一個什麼？儲電設施啊！它停在建築物內部的時候，它就是一個battery，所以其實我們在談未來的電動車用量會上升，我們用一個什麼東西？虛擬電廠，所以台電也在思考V2G啊！台電的虛擬電廠必須搭配都市裡面每個大樓都有儲能設施，這個虛擬電廠就可以運作，瞭解了嗎？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：瞭解了。台電，是不是這樣子？"],["郭專業總工程師芳楠：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，能用虛擬電廠，這是不是你們的希望？"],["吳副署長志偉：是的，所以我們最近在修電業法就有把這個概念放到新的電業法裡面去訂相關的規定。"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果未來我們的民眾都是用電動車，他停在公寓大樓裡面的停車場，問題不是消極地去擔心充電樁的電容夠不夠，擔心它安全能力夠不夠，重點是在於我們的電路系統、建築法規有沒有配套把這樣的電動車視為大樓的儲能設施，配合上屋頂型光電板，虛擬電廠就可以推動了，有沒有估算過它的電力供應會多大？台電有沒有估算？能源署有沒有估算？"],["吳副署長志偉：有，其實我們在小型的實驗計畫都有在做，這個就是我們說的aggregater的概念，就是它把太陽光電加上電池整個調和，然後配合台電調度。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你買了一輛電動車，你的電池可以在離峰時候的便宜用電幫台電儲電，然後在尖峰用電、高電價的時候，你的電動車如果沒有在行駛，你把你的電力賣給電網還可以賺差價，是不是這樣子？"],["吳副署長志偉：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，次長，你覺得這個願景是不是比起我們在關心大樓裡面的充電樁會不會失火，必須更前瞻地去部署？"],["董次長建宏：是，我同意。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我們做結論，今天時間有限，請研擬「完善建築內充電樁法規」的方案，這是應目前眼前的要求，其中包含了建築法規跟台電的營業規則，對於大樓的配電室應設置的位置、相關的容量一併檢討，可以嗎？"],["董次長建宏：好，我們來努力。"],["鍾委員佳濱：第二個，請跟能源署，能源署你們一起來，都在經濟部的，能源署、經濟部、內政部一起，針對「電動車納虛擬電廠」方案，能不能提出一個報告？能源署，可以嗎？"],["吳副署長志偉：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：內政部願意配合嗎？"],["董次長建宏：我們可以配合。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員。","下一位請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":82,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-2","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","麥玉珍","許宇甄","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","郭昱晴","吳琪銘","洪孟楷","林楚茵","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","黃健豪","李坤城","王鴻薇","邱志偉","張啓楷","蔡易餘","葉元之","高金素梅","丁學忠","翁曉玲","王義川"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長劉世芳、經濟部、交通部、金融監督管理委員會、台灣電力股份有限公司就「公\n寓大廈裝設電動車輛充電裝置之相關法令、國家標準、建築設計、管理維護、火災預防措施及相\n關保險類別與要保人之認定」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00001"}}}