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\"score\": 0.313}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 442.573, \"end\": 442.593, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 442.593, \"end\": 442.713, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 442.713, \"end\": 442.733, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 442.733, \"end\": 442.773, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 442.773, \"end\": 442.793, \"score\": 0.101}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:28,401 --> 00:00:35,907\n謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們董事長以及我們國土署的吳署長董事長吳署長有請委員好次長好次長我想說今天透過質詢想跟次長聊一下國土計畫\n\n2\n00:00:48,240 --> 00:01:08,840\n那當然我剛剛聽到了說國土計畫法展延六年這件事結果被當作凍結或是刪除預算的理由我這件事我因為之前處理預算我沒有在內政委員會我有點嚇到我想說國土計畫法的展延當時不是三個政黨大家都有高度的共識認為說這部分會讓農民憂慮\n\n3\n00:01:14,083 --> 00:01:28,987\n還有一些溝通解釋的一個必要所以我們來展演用六年的時間來換取更多把國務計劃法要處理的層次把它處理得更清晰而且更不會去侵害到任何人的一個權利三黨共識的東西結果拿來要去動你們的衣裳像剛才那樣上街等你們糟蹋所以我覺得這樣不好所以我覺得說\n\n4\n00:01:39,129 --> 00:01:58,083\n國土計劃法這件事情大家還是可以好好來談那我想跟市長直接聊一下我們在於去年那完成了國土計劃法的修法除了展延六年之外基本上我們在第八條也訂了一個很重要的一個條文也就是直轄市跟縣市主管可以擬定國土計劃的時候辦理鄉村地區的整體規劃\n\n5\n00:02:01,725 --> 00:02:21,863\n並是實際需要擬定鄉村地區的計劃納入直轄市縣市的國土計劃並得以覆測方式定之所以這個我們認為說它就是一個鄉村規劃把它入法入在國土計劃那既然這樣的話我們也知道說現在很多的一個鄉村很多村子村子的部落它的問題是什麼第一沒有建地\n\n6\n00:02:27,601 --> 00:02:39,951\n縱使有間地也因為辭分,因為繼承的關係,然後辭分到了沒有辦法處理,所以縱使年輕人返鄉,你想說好,我們一個六個,我們跟他六個的住地,回來故鄉,他在六個,他看我找到間地,然後去那買房子,沒那麼大,\n\n7\n00:02:45,535 --> 00:02:50,599\n他應該要去破住買房子,他一樣是返鄉,但是他要去破住因為破住那裡,有人要去住,如果蓋了沒建地,沒人要去住所以他沒辦法買到房子這個問題就在這個地方那我們一直在想說,鄉村的一個,我們要推的就是要有什麼鄉村的三生要有生活、生產、生態所以你一個地方,你既然要讓它到期你除了住的功能,你也要有消費的功能\n\n8\n00:03:11,734 --> 00:03:28,813\n你也想要做行貨的功能,這樣這個增加也比較實在,環境的增加,可是我們現在的鄉村就是事不相,要建地沒建地,路地,道路用地,小條車開不進去,要做生意也不會做,現在連一個增加的最好那間的電販車都要跟你們說什麼困難,\n\n9\n00:03:33,562 --> 00:03:55,815\n所以這個就是鄉村的一個現實那唯一能解套就是我們這次修法的鄉村整體規劃所以我具體建議次長啦等一下我剛才說了這麼多話就跟你說但是我先具體開宗明義既然國土計畫展延六年我們應該要訂一個六年計畫你們應該要把台灣所有的部落未來需要辦理鄉規\n\n10\n00:03:57,436 --> 00:04:10,906\n辦理鄉村規劃的時候他要有一筆規劃費你們應該要抓一個六年計劃把錢都找出來鼓勵每一個政咖每一個部落每一個政頭都要開始走這個鄉村的規劃請次長來回應一下\n\n11\n00:04:15,723 --> 00:04:42,042\n還是署長都可以好感謝委員其實委員說的就是現在政客所在的真正要聽就是說就算要回家差不多都會遇到土地氣氛根本站不起來所以我們大概現在的做法是這樣有些地區確實它如果存在著這樣的一個返鄉但是有相歸不得的壓力那其實鄉村第一整理規劃它就會跟農村社區重劃就會整合\n\n12\n00:04:42,782 --> 00:05:08,130\n那過去的重劃大概都是找一塊乾淨的樹地先去做處理但是我們也考慮到現有的聚落它的公社也必須要提升所以未來會類似跨區重劃的概念如果舊的聚落有人願意土地提供出來做公社他也可以到新的社區裡面住的話那我們也可以同步改善舊社區那就是遷村的概念它直接造一個新的地方但是古坡落裡面公社買得到這會改善公社人抓進來\n\n13\n00:05:10,411 --> 00:05:34,572\n公社也可以做進去,那這樣也可以改善舊聚落的公社那新的開發區也可以容納舊社區的人那這樣其實大家一起共同把它長大那這樣才能解決現在鄉村的這個做法那第二個就是說我們現在其實每年都鼓勵各縣市政府各公所來提那到目前大概有70幾個鄉鎮公所都有來提案了\n\n14\n00:05:34,892 --> 00:05:58,677\n那我們希望這個速度能夠加快就是我們經費的部分我們會全力來支援那但是我們會鼓勵更多的鄉鎮公所來提案除了鼓勵之外就具體的啦我們要經費都先抓出來讓他們可以馬上實施事實上他們困難點是在於要回營啦就我們現在我們新港鄉我們有一個板陶村他們現在就要進行他現在是要走這個鄉規定義說到期要重新要重圍\n\n15\n00:06:04,946 --> 00:06:33,698\n那要蓋50%的印章很辛苦耶尤其是發動的人要接受很多不同的雜音所以他有這個意志去推動所以這部分公家應該要蓋進第二個就是說你們在辦理箱規的時候應該要我剛剛講的你除了他的生活以外你要有生產生產面所以你每一個箱規你在規劃的時候你必須要把這個枕頭要有多少的商業機能\n\n16\n00:06:35,278 --> 00:06:39,703\n所以他就要有這個商業做生意的用途,這都要到外面出來,這就是整套的,要這樣整套的,你整個國土區要在這六年的一個檢討期間才會走得有意義,才會讓那個政客,因為我們開始讓他去做一些規劃,\n\n17\n00:06:56,862 --> 00:07:05,585\n市長有空可以來我們布袋豪美禮,我們布袋豪美禮,他在二十年前他就走這個,對,就中圍了,他現在要撥大條,他要去住宅,做行李,條理分明,市長我們整個就這樣下去走\n\n18\n00:07:17,790 --> 00:07:22,793\n不要讓他變成說你鄉村也好,我們現在不要說大都會啦白白都在政科,也有說到這裡要結帳,村子那裡要擺帳,擺帳到年齡都沒了這樣就不行,好不好,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n28401\t35907\t謝謝主席 那我們是不是有請我們董事長以及我們國土署的吳署長董事長吳署長有請委員好 次長好次長我想說今天透過質詢想跟次長聊一下國土計畫\n48240\t68840\t那當然我剛剛聽到了說國土計畫法展延六年這件事結果被當作凍結或是刪除預算的理由我這件事我因為之前處理預算我沒有在內政委員會我有點嚇到我想說國土計畫法的展延當時不是三個政黨大家都有高度的共識認為說這部分會讓農民憂慮\n74083\t88987\t還有一些溝通解釋的一個必要所以我們來展演用六年的時間來換取更多把國務計劃法要處理的層次把它處理得更清晰而且更不會去侵害到任何人的一個權利三黨共識的東西結果拿來要去動你們的衣裳像剛才那樣上街等你們糟蹋所以我覺得這樣不好所以我覺得說\n99129\t118083\t國土計劃法這件事情大家還是可以好好來談那我想跟市長直接聊一下我們在於去年那完成了國土計劃法的修法除了展延六年之外基本上我們在第八條也訂了一個很重要的一個條文也就是直轄市跟縣市主管可以擬定國土計劃的時候辦理鄉村地區的整體規劃\n121725\t141863\t並是實際需要擬定鄉村地區的計劃納入直轄市縣市的國土計劃並得以覆測方式定之所以這個我們認為說它就是一個鄉村規劃把它入法入在國土計劃那既然這樣的話我們也知道說現在很多的一個鄉村很多村子村子的部落它的問題是什麼第一沒有建地\n147601\t159951\t縱使有間地也因為辭分,因為繼承的關係,然後辭分到了沒有辦法處理,所以縱使年輕人返鄉,你想說好,我們一個六個,我們跟他六個的住地,回來故鄉,他在六個,他看我找到間地,然後去那買房子,沒那麼大,\n165535\t170599\t他應該要去破住買房子,他一樣是返鄉,但是他要去破住因為破住那裡,有人要去住,如果蓋了沒建地,沒人要去住所以他沒辦法買到房子這個問題就在這個地方那我們一直在想說,鄉村的一個,我們要推的就是要有什麼鄉村的三生要有生活、生產、生態所以你一個地方,你既然要讓它到期你除了住的功能,你也要有消費的功能\n191734\t208813\t你也想要做行貨的功能,這樣這個增加也比較實在,環境的增加,可是我們現在的鄉村就是事不相,要建地沒建地,路地,道路用地,小條車開不進去,要做生意也不會做,現在連一個增加的最好那間的電販車都要跟你們說什麼困難,\n213562\t235815\t所以這個就是鄉村的一個現實那唯一能解套就是我們這次修法的鄉村整體規劃所以我具體建議次長啦等一下我剛才說了這麼多話就跟你說但是我先具體開宗明義既然國土計畫展延六年我們應該要訂一個六年計畫你們應該要把台灣所有的部落未來需要辦理鄉規\n237436\t250906\t辦理鄉村規劃的時候他要有一筆規劃費你們應該要抓一個六年計劃把錢都找出來鼓勵每一個政咖每一個部落每一個政頭都要開始走這個鄉村的規劃請次長來回應一下\n255723\t282042\t還是署長都可以好 感謝委員 其實委員說的就是現在政客所在的真正要聽就是說就算要回家 差不多都會遇到土地氣氛根本站不起來所以我們大概現在的做法是這樣有些地區確實它如果存在著這樣的一個返鄉但是有相歸不得的壓力那其實鄉村第一整理規劃它就會跟農村社區重劃就會整合\n282782\t308130\t那過去的重劃大概都是找一塊乾淨的樹地先去做處理但是我們也考慮到現有的聚落它的公社也必須要提升所以未來會類似跨區重劃的概念如果舊的聚落有人願意土地提供出來做公社他也可以到新的社區裡面住的話那我們也可以同步改善舊社區那就是遷村的概念它直接造一個新的地方但是古坡落裡面公社買得到這會改善公社人抓進來\n310411\t334572\t公社也可以做進去,那這樣也可以改善舊聚落的公社那新的開發區也可以容納舊社區的人那這樣其實大家一起共同把它長大那這樣才能解決現在鄉村的這個做法那第二個就是說我們現在其實每年都鼓勵各縣市政府各公所來提那到目前大概有70幾個鄉鎮公所都有來提案了\n334892\t358677\t那我們希望這個速度能夠加快就是我們經費的部分我們會全力來支援那但是我們會鼓勵更多的鄉鎮公所來提案除了鼓勵之外就具體的啦我們要經費都先抓出來讓他們可以馬上實施事實上他們困難點是在於要回營啦就我們現在我們新港鄉我們有一個板陶村他們現在就要進行他現在是要走這個鄉規定義說到期要重新要重圍\n364946\t393698\t那要蓋50%的印章很辛苦耶尤其是發動的人要接受很多不同的雜音所以他有這個意志去推動所以這部分公家應該要蓋進第二個就是說你們在辦理箱規的時候應該要我剛剛講的你除了他的生活以外你要有生產生產面所以你每一個箱規你在規劃的時候你必須要把這個枕頭要有多少的商業機能\n395278\t399703\t所以他就要有這個商業做生意的用途,這都要到外面出來,這就是整套的,要這樣整套的,你整個國土區要在這六年的一個檢討期間才會走得有意義,才會讓那個政客,因為我們開始讓他去做一些規劃,\n416862\t425585\t市長有空可以來我們布袋豪美禮,我們布袋豪美禮,他在二十年前他就走這個,對,就中圍了,他現在要撥大條,他要去住宅,做行李,條理分明,市長我們整個就這樣下去走\n437790\t442793\t不要讓他變成說你鄉村也好,我們現在不要說大都會啦白白都在政科,也有說到這裡要結帳,村子那裡要擺帳,擺帳到年齡都沒了這樣就不行,好不好,謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 那我們是不是有請我們董事長以及我們國土署的吳署長董事長吳署長有請委員好 次長好次長我想說今天透過質詢想跟次長聊一下國土計畫\n那當然我剛剛聽到了說國土計畫法展延六年這件事結果被當作凍結或是刪除預算的理由我這件事我因為之前處理預算我沒有在內政委員會我有點嚇到我想說國土計畫法的展延當時不是三個政黨大家都有高度的共識認為說這部分會讓農民憂慮\n還有一些溝通解釋的一個必要所以我們來展演用六年的時間來換取更多把國務計劃法要處理的層次把它處理得更清晰而且更不會去侵害到任何人的一個權利三黨共識的東西結果拿來要去動你們的衣裳像剛才那樣上街等你們糟蹋所以我覺得這樣不好所以我覺得說\n國土計劃法這件事情大家還是可以好好來談那我想跟市長直接聊一下我們在於去年那完成了國土計劃法的修法除了展延六年之外基本上我們在第八條也訂了一個很重要的一個條文也就是直轄市跟縣市主管可以擬定國土計劃的時候辦理鄉村地區的整體規劃\n並是實際需要擬定鄉村地區的計劃納入直轄市縣市的國土計劃並得以覆測方式定之所以這個我們認為說它就是一個鄉村規劃把它入法入在國土計劃那既然這樣的話我們也知道說現在很多的一個鄉村很多村子村子的部落它的問題是什麼第一沒有建地\n縱使有間地也因為辭分,因為繼承的關係,然後辭分到了沒有辦法處理,所以縱使年輕人返鄉,你想說好,我們一個六個,我們跟他六個的住地,回來故鄉,他在六個,他看我找到間地,然後去那買房子,沒那麼大,\n他應該要去破住買房子,他一樣是返鄉,但是他要去破住因為破住那裡,有人要去住,如果蓋了沒建地,沒人要去住所以他沒辦法買到房子這個問題就在這個地方那我們一直在想說,鄉村的一個,我們要推的就是要有什麼鄉村的三生要有生活、生產、生態所以你一個地方,你既然要讓它到期你除了住的功能,你也要有消費的功能\n你也想要做行貨的功能,這樣這個增加也比較實在,環境的增加,可是我們現在的鄉村就是事不相,要建地沒建地,路地,道路用地,小條車開不進去,要做生意也不會做,現在連一個增加的最好那間的電販車都要跟你們說什麼困難,\n所以這個就是鄉村的一個現實那唯一能解套就是我們這次修法的鄉村整體規劃所以我具體建議次長啦等一下我剛才說了這麼多話就跟你說但是我先具體開宗明義既然國土計畫展延六年我們應該要訂一個六年計畫你們應該要把台灣所有的部落未來需要辦理鄉規\n辦理鄉村規劃的時候他要有一筆規劃費你們應該要抓一個六年計劃把錢都找出來鼓勵每一個政咖每一個部落每一個政頭都要開始走這個鄉村的規劃請次長來回應一下\n還是署長都可以好 感謝委員 其實委員說的就是現在政客所在的真正要聽就是說就算要回家 差不多都會遇到土地氣氛根本站不起來所以我們大概現在的做法是這樣有些地區確實它如果存在著這樣的一個返鄉但是有相歸不得的壓力那其實鄉村第一整理規劃它就會跟農村社區重劃就會整合\n那過去的重劃大概都是找一塊乾淨的樹地先去做處理但是我們也考慮到現有的聚落它的公社也必須要提升所以未來會類似跨區重劃的概念如果舊的聚落有人願意土地提供出來做公社他也可以到新的社區裡面住的話那我們也可以同步改善舊社區那就是遷村的概念它直接造一個新的地方但是古坡落裡面公社買得到這會改善公社人抓進來\n公社也可以做進去,那這樣也可以改善舊聚落的公社那新的開發區也可以容納舊社區的人那這樣其實大家一起共同把它長大那這樣才能解決現在鄉村的這個做法那第二個就是說我們現在其實每年都鼓勵各縣市政府各公所來提那到目前大概有70幾個鄉鎮公所都有來提案了\n那我們希望這個速度能夠加快就是我們經費的部分我們會全力來支援那但是我們會鼓勵更多的鄉鎮公所來提案除了鼓勵之外就具體的啦我們要經費都先抓出來讓他們可以馬上實施事實上他們困難點是在於要回營啦就我們現在我們新港鄉我們有一個板陶村他們現在就要進行他現在是要走這個鄉規定義說到期要重新要重圍\n那要蓋50%的印章很辛苦耶尤其是發動的人要接受很多不同的雜音所以他有這個意志去推動所以這部分公家應該要蓋進第二個就是說你們在辦理箱規的時候應該要我剛剛講的你除了他的生活以外你要有生產生產面所以你每一個箱規你在規劃的時候你必須要把這個枕頭要有多少的商業機能\n所以他就要有這個商業做生意的用途,這都要到外面出來,這就是整套的,要這樣整套的,你整個國土區要在這六年的一個檢討期間才會走得有意義,才會讓那個政客,因為我們開始讓他去做一些規劃,\n市長有空可以來我們布袋豪美禮,我們布袋豪美禮,他在二十年前他就走這個,對,就中圍了,他現在要撥大條,他要去住宅,做行李,條理分明,市長我們整個就這樣下去走\n不要讓他變成說你鄉村也好,我們現在不要說大都會啦白白都在政科,也有說到這裡要結帳,村子那裡要擺帳,擺帳到年齡都沒了這樣就不行,好不好,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:28.401 --> 00:35.907\n謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們董事長以及我們國土署的吳署長董事長吳署長有請委員好次長好次長我想說今天透過質詢想跟次長聊一下國土計畫\n\n00:48.240 --> 01:08.840\n那當然我剛剛聽到了說國土計畫法展延六年這件事結果被當作凍結或是刪除預算的理由我這件事我因為之前處理預算我沒有在內政委員會我有點嚇到我想說國土計畫法的展延當時不是三個政黨大家都有高度的共識認為說這部分會讓農民憂慮\n\n01:14.083 --> 01:28.987\n還有一些溝通解釋的一個必要所以我們來展演用六年的時間來換取更多把國務計劃法要處理的層次把它處理得更清晰而且更不會去侵害到任何人的一個權利三黨共識的東西結果拿來要去動你們的衣裳像剛才那樣上街等你們糟蹋所以我覺得這樣不好所以我覺得說\n\n01:39.129 --> 01:58.083\n國土計劃法這件事情大家還是可以好好來談那我想跟市長直接聊一下我們在於去年那完成了國土計劃法的修法除了展延六年之外基本上我們在第八條也訂了一個很重要的一個條文也就是直轄市跟縣市主管可以擬定國土計劃的時候辦理鄉村地區的整體規劃\n\n02:01.725 --> 02:21.863\n並是實際需要擬定鄉村地區的計劃納入直轄市縣市的國土計劃並得以覆測方式定之所以這個我們認為說它就是一個鄉村規劃把它入法入在國土計劃那既然這樣的話我們也知道說現在很多的一個鄉村很多村子村子的部落它的問題是什麼第一沒有建地\n\n02:27.601 --> 02:39.951\n縱使有間地也因為辭分,因為繼承的關係,然後辭分到了沒有辦法處理,所以縱使年輕人返鄉,你想說好,我們一個六個,我們跟他六個的住地,回來故鄉,他在六個,他看我找到間地,然後去那買房子,沒那麼大,\n\n02:45.535 --> 02:50.599\n他應該要去破住買房子,他一樣是返鄉,但是他要去破住因為破住那裡,有人要去住,如果蓋了沒建地,沒人要去住所以他沒辦法買到房子這個問題就在這個地方那我們一直在想說,鄉村的一個,我們要推的就是要有什麼鄉村的三生要有生活、生產、生態所以你一個地方,你既然要讓它到期你除了住的功能,你也要有消費的功能\n\n03:11.734 --> 03:28.813\n你也想要做行貨的功能,這樣這個增加也比較實在,環境的增加,可是我們現在的鄉村就是事不相,要建地沒建地,路地,道路用地,小條車開不進去,要做生意也不會做,現在連一個增加的最好那間的電販車都要跟你們說什麼困難,\n\n03:33.562 --> 03:55.815\n所以這個就是鄉村的一個現實那唯一能解套就是我們這次修法的鄉村整體規劃所以我具體建議次長啦等一下我剛才說了這麼多話就跟你說但是我先具體開宗明義既然國土計畫展延六年我們應該要訂一個六年計畫你們應該要把台灣所有的部落未來需要辦理鄉規\n\n03:57.436 --> 04:10.906\n辦理鄉村規劃的時候他要有一筆規劃費你們應該要抓一個六年計劃把錢都找出來鼓勵每一個政咖每一個部落每一個政頭都要開始走這個鄉村的規劃請次長來回應一下\n\n04:15.723 --> 04:42.042\n還是署長都可以好感謝委員其實委員說的就是現在政客所在的真正要聽就是說就算要回家差不多都會遇到土地氣氛根本站不起來所以我們大概現在的做法是這樣有些地區確實它如果存在著這樣的一個返鄉但是有相歸不得的壓力那其實鄉村第一整理規劃它就會跟農村社區重劃就會整合\n\n04:42.782 --> 05:08.130\n那過去的重劃大概都是找一塊乾淨的樹地先去做處理但是我們也考慮到現有的聚落它的公社也必須要提升所以未來會類似跨區重劃的概念如果舊的聚落有人願意土地提供出來做公社他也可以到新的社區裡面住的話那我們也可以同步改善舊社區那就是遷村的概念它直接造一個新的地方但是古坡落裡面公社買得到這會改善公社人抓進來\n\n05:10.411 --> 05:34.572\n公社也可以做進去,那這樣也可以改善舊聚落的公社那新的開發區也可以容納舊社區的人那這樣其實大家一起共同把它長大那這樣才能解決現在鄉村的這個做法那第二個就是說我們現在其實每年都鼓勵各縣市政府各公所來提那到目前大概有70幾個鄉鎮公所都有來提案了\n\n05:34.892 --> 05:58.677\n那我們希望這個速度能夠加快就是我們經費的部分我們會全力來支援那但是我們會鼓勵更多的鄉鎮公所來提案除了鼓勵之外就具體的啦我們要經費都先抓出來讓他們可以馬上實施事實上他們困難點是在於要回營啦就我們現在我們新港鄉我們有一個板陶村他們現在就要進行他現在是要走這個鄉規定義說到期要重新要重圍\n\n06:04.946 --> 06:33.698\n那要蓋50%的印章很辛苦耶尤其是發動的人要接受很多不同的雜音所以他有這個意志去推動所以這部分公家應該要蓋進第二個就是說你們在辦理箱規的時候應該要我剛剛講的你除了他的生活以外你要有生產生產面所以你每一個箱規你在規劃的時候你必須要把這個枕頭要有多少的商業機能\n\n06:35.278 --> 06:39.703\n所以他就要有這個商業做生意的用途,這都要到外面出來,這就是整套的,要這樣整套的,你整個國土區要在這六年的一個檢討期間才會走得有意義,才會讓那個政客,因為我們開始讓他去做一些規劃,\n\n06:56.862 --> 07:05.585\n市長有空可以來我們布袋豪美禮,我們布袋豪美禮,他在二十年前他就走這個,對,就中圍了,他現在要撥大條,他要去住宅,做行李,條理分明,市長我們整個就這樣下去走\n\n07:17.790 --> 07:22.793\n不要讓他變成說你鄉村也好,我們現在不要說大都會啦白白都在政科,也有說到這裡要結帳,村子那裡要擺帳,擺帳到年齡都沒了這樣就不行,好不好,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":28.401,"end":35.907,"text":"謝謝主席 那我們是不是有請我們董事長以及我們國土署的吳署長董事長吳署長有請委員好 次長好次長我想說今天透過質詢想跟次長聊一下國土計畫"},{"start":48.24,"end":68.84,"text":"那當然我剛剛聽到了說國土計畫法展延六年這件事結果被當作凍結或是刪除預算的理由我這件事我因為之前處理預算我沒有在內政委員會我有點嚇到我想說國土計畫法的展延當時不是三個政黨大家都有高度的共識認為說這部分會讓農民憂慮"},{"start":74.083,"end":88.987,"text":"還有一些溝通解釋的一個必要所以我們來展演用六年的時間來換取更多把國務計劃法要處理的層次把它處理得更清晰而且更不會去侵害到任何人的一個權利三黨共識的東西結果拿來要去動你們的衣裳像剛才那樣上街等你們糟蹋所以我覺得這樣不好所以我覺得說"},{"start":99.129,"end":118.083,"text":"國土計劃法這件事情大家還是可以好好來談那我想跟市長直接聊一下我們在於去年那完成了國土計劃法的修法除了展延六年之外基本上我們在第八條也訂了一個很重要的一個條文也就是直轄市跟縣市主管可以擬定國土計劃的時候辦理鄉村地區的整體規劃"},{"start":121.725,"end":141.863,"text":"並是實際需要擬定鄉村地區的計劃納入直轄市縣市的國土計劃並得以覆測方式定之所以這個我們認為說它就是一個鄉村規劃把它入法入在國土計劃那既然這樣的話我們也知道說現在很多的一個鄉村很多村子村子的部落它的問題是什麼第一沒有建地"},{"start":147.601,"end":159.951,"text":"縱使有間地也因為辭分,因為繼承的關係,然後辭分到了沒有辦法處理,所以縱使年輕人返鄉,你想說好,我們一個六個,我們跟他六個的住地,回來故鄉,他在六個,他看我找到間地,然後去那買房子,沒那麼大,"},{"start":165.535,"end":170.599,"text":"他應該要去破住買房子,他一樣是返鄉,但是他要去破住因為破住那裡,有人要去住,如果蓋了沒建地,沒人要去住所以他沒辦法買到房子這個問題就在這個地方那我們一直在想說,鄉村的一個,我們要推的就是要有什麼鄉村的三生要有生活、生產、生態所以你一個地方,你既然要讓它到期你除了住的功能,你也要有消費的功能"},{"start":191.734,"end":208.813,"text":"你也想要做行貨的功能,這樣這個增加也比較實在,環境的增加,可是我們現在的鄉村就是事不相,要建地沒建地,路地,道路用地,小條車開不進去,要做生意也不會做,現在連一個增加的最好那間的電販車都要跟你們說什麼困難,"},{"start":213.562,"end":235.815,"text":"所以這個就是鄉村的一個現實那唯一能解套就是我們這次修法的鄉村整體規劃所以我具體建議次長啦等一下我剛才說了這麼多話就跟你說但是我先具體開宗明義既然國土計畫展延六年我們應該要訂一個六年計畫你們應該要把台灣所有的部落未來需要辦理鄉規"},{"start":237.436,"end":250.906,"text":"辦理鄉村規劃的時候他要有一筆規劃費你們應該要抓一個六年計劃把錢都找出來鼓勵每一個政咖每一個部落每一個政頭都要開始走這個鄉村的規劃請次長來回應一下"},{"start":255.723,"end":282.042,"text":"還是署長都可以好 感謝委員 其實委員說的就是現在政客所在的真正要聽就是說就算要回家 差不多都會遇到土地氣氛根本站不起來所以我們大概現在的做法是這樣有些地區確實它如果存在著這樣的一個返鄉但是有相歸不得的壓力那其實鄉村第一整理規劃它就會跟農村社區重劃就會整合"},{"start":282.782,"end":308.13,"text":"那過去的重劃大概都是找一塊乾淨的樹地先去做處理但是我們也考慮到現有的聚落它的公社也必須要提升所以未來會類似跨區重劃的概念如果舊的聚落有人願意土地提供出來做公社他也可以到新的社區裡面住的話那我們也可以同步改善舊社區那就是遷村的概念它直接造一個新的地方但是古坡落裡面公社買得到這會改善公社人抓進來"},{"start":310.411,"end":334.572,"text":"公社也可以做進去,那這樣也可以改善舊聚落的公社那新的開發區也可以容納舊社區的人那這樣其實大家一起共同把它長大那這樣才能解決現在鄉村的這個做法那第二個就是說我們現在其實每年都鼓勵各縣市政府各公所來提那到目前大概有70幾個鄉鎮公所都有來提案了"},{"start":334.892,"end":358.677,"text":"那我們希望這個速度能夠加快就是我們經費的部分我們會全力來支援那但是我們會鼓勵更多的鄉鎮公所來提案除了鼓勵之外就具體的啦我們要經費都先抓出來讓他們可以馬上實施事實上他們困難點是在於要回營啦就我們現在我們新港鄉我們有一個板陶村他們現在就要進行他現在是要走這個鄉規定義說到期要重新要重圍"},{"start":364.946,"end":393.698,"text":"那要蓋50%的印章很辛苦耶尤其是發動的人要接受很多不同的雜音所以他有這個意志去推動所以這部分公家應該要蓋進第二個就是說你們在辦理箱規的時候應該要我剛剛講的你除了他的生活以外你要有生產生產面所以你每一個箱規你在規劃的時候你必須要把這個枕頭要有多少的商業機能"},{"start":395.278,"end":399.703,"text":"所以他就要有這個商業做生意的用途,這都要到外面出來,這就是整套的,要這樣整套的,你整個國土區要在這六年的一個檢討期間才會走得有意義,才會讓那個政客,因為我們開始讓他去做一些規劃,"},{"start":416.862,"end":425.585,"text":"市長有空可以來我們布袋豪美禮,我們布袋豪美禮,他在二十年前他就走這個,對,就中圍了,他現在要撥大條,他要去住宅,做行李,條理分明,市長我們整個就這樣下去走"},{"start":437.79,"end":442.793,"text":"不要讓他變成說你鄉村也好,我們現在不要說大都會啦白白都在政科,也有說到這裡要結帳,村子那裡要擺帳,擺帳到年齡都沒了這樣就不行,好不好,謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1265,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（12時56分）謝謝主席，是不是有請董次長以及國土署的吳署長？"],["主席：有請董次長及吳署長。"],["董次長建宏：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：次長好。次長，我想透過今天的質詢與次長聊一下國土計畫。剛剛我聽到國土計畫法展延六年的這件事被當作凍結或刪除預算的理由，因為之前處理預算時，我不在內政委員會，現在聽到之後有點嚇到！關於國土計畫法的展延，當時三個政黨不是都有高度的共識？因為這個部分會讓農民感到憂慮，而且還有一些溝通解釋的必要，所以我們認為必須要展延，用六年的時間把國土計畫法需要處理的層次處理得更清晰、更不會侵害到任何一個人的權利。三黨有共識的東西，結果拿來凍結你們的預算，就像剛才那樣糟蹋你們，我覺得這樣不好！關於國土計畫法這件事，大家還是可以好好的來談。","我想與次長直接聊一下，去年我們完成了國土計畫法的修法，除了展延六年之外，基本上，我們在第八條訂了一個很重要的條文，直轄市與縣（市）主管可以擬定國土計畫的時候，辦理鄉村地區的整體規劃，並視實際需要擬定鄉村地區的計畫，納入直轄市、縣（市）的國土計畫，並得另以附冊方式定之。我們認為這就是將鄉村規劃入法在國土計畫中，既然是這樣的話，現在有許多鄉下部落的問題是什麼？第一，沒有建地。縱使有建地也會因為持分、因為繼承的關係，而持分到了無法處理，因此縱使年輕人返鄉，譬如我們嘉義六腳的子弟回到故鄉，但是在六腳是否有辦法找到建地、是否有辦法在那裡買房子？沒辦法啊！一樣是返鄉，他必須要到朴子去買房子，因為朴子有人蓋房子，六腳因為沒建地就沒有人蓋房子，所以他們沒辦法買到房子，問題就是在這裡。我們一直在想鄉村要推的就是鄉村的三生，要有生活、生產、生態，一個地方除了要住的功能之外，也必須要有消費的功能、也必須要有能夠工作的功能，這樣才能算是一個完整的鄉村，但是我們現在的鄉村就是四不像，要建地沒建地、道路用地小，車子開不進去、要做生意也活不下去，現在或許連鄉下最後的一間「柑仔店」可能都要向你說再見！這就是鄉村的現實狀況，唯一能解套就是這次修法的鄉村整體規劃。因此，我具體的建議次長，既然國土計畫展延六年，我們就應該要訂定一個六年計畫，針對臺灣所有的部落，未來辦理所有鄉村規劃時要有一筆規劃費，你們應該要抓一個六年計畫，把錢都找出來，鼓勵每一個鄉村、每一個部落、每一個村莊都要開始進行鄉村整體規劃。請次長來回應一下，還是署長都可以。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，其實委員講的都是現在鄉下地方真正的痛處，就算是要回去蓋房子，差不多都會遇到土地持分的問題，根本蓋不起來。"],["蔡委員易餘：是。"],["吳署長欣修：所以我們現在的做法是這樣，有些地區確實存在著這樣一個返鄉但有鄉歸不得的壓力，那鄉村地區整體規劃就會跟農村社區重劃整合。過去的重劃都是找一塊乾淨的素地先去處理，但是我們也考慮到現有的聚落它公設也必須要提升，所以未來會類似跨區重劃的概念，如果舊的聚落有人願意把土地提供出來做公設，他也可以到新的社區住的話，那我們也可以同步改善舊社區。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，那就是遷村的概念，它直接造一個新的地方……"],["吳署長欣修：部分啦，但是舊部落裡面的公設也可以一起改善……"],["蔡委員易餘：公設也放進來……"],["吳署長欣修：公設也可以做進去，這樣也可以改善舊部落的公設，新的開發區也可以容納舊社區的人，這樣大家一起共榮讓它長大，這樣才是解決現在鄉村壓力的做法。第二個就是我們現在每年都鼓勵各縣市政府跟各公所來提案，到目前大概有七十幾個鄉鎮公所都有來提案，我們希望這個速度能夠加快，就是經費的部分我們會全力來支援，而且我們會鼓勵更多的鄉鎮公所來提案。"],["蔡委員易餘：除了鼓勵之外就是要具體把經費都先抓出來，讓他們可以馬上實施。"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：事實上他們的困難點是在於要蓋章，像現在我們新港鄉有一個板頭村，他們現在就要進行鄉規，等於說都市要重劃，那要蓋50%的印章，很辛苦耶！尤其是發動的人，要接受很多不同的雜音，那要很有意志去推動……"],["吳署長欣修：所以說不要私辦，讓公家來辦。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以這部分就是公家要介入。第二個就是說你們在辦理鄉規的時候，應該要像我剛剛講的除了它的生活以外，你要有生產面，所以每一個鄉規你在規劃的時候，必須要把這個村莊需要有多少的商業機能，也就是要有做生意的用地，這都要把它劃出來，這就是整套的。你要走整套的，整個國土計畫法在這六年的檢討期間才會走得有意義啊！才會讓鄉村開始去做一些規劃。","我覺得次長有空可以來我們布袋好美里，我們布袋好美里在20年前就……"],["吳署長欣修：農村社區重劃。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，就有重劃了，現在那邊第一路大條，第二那裡的房子有住宅的和做生意的，這樣條理分明，事實上我們的鄉村應該這樣下去進行。"],["吳署長欣修：是啦。"],["蔡委員易餘：我們現在先不要說大都會，就一樣都位在鄉村，只有這邊「結市」，剩下卻「敗市」，「敗市」到連人都沒了。這樣就不行，好不好？"],["董次長建宏：謝謝委員指教，我們會照委員的指示來處理，預算的部分我們也會趕快編列，請大院支持我們。謝謝。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘委員。","下一位請葉元之委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":82,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-2","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","麥玉珍","許宇甄","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","郭昱晴","吳琪銘","洪孟楷","林楚茵","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","黃健豪","李坤城","王鴻薇","邱志偉","張啓楷","蔡易餘","葉元之","高金素梅","丁學忠","翁曉玲","王義川"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長劉世芳、經濟部、交通部、金融監督管理委員會、台灣電力股份有限公司就「公\n寓大廈裝設電動車輛充電裝置之相關法令、國家標準、建築設計、管理維護、火災預防措施及相\n關保險類別與要保人之認定」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00001"}}}