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00:00:40,591\n好部長辛苦了今天的議題我們當然關心啦不過因為還有另外一個兒少全法修法在即兒少全法的部分有一個部分我認為是目前我們在幾次公聽會當中或者是目前衛福部給我們的資料裡面我們已經都做了研究也跟你們所知跟你們討論過我們覺得有匱乏的地方我這裡就直接跟部長討論好來下一頁\n\n3\n00:00:46,096 --> 00:01:03,182\n主要就是因為目前安置在安置機構裡面的兒少在2024年的數字有5000多位將近6000位而這些孩子們他不管年紀多大他都是因為原生家庭的有一些問題沒有辦法照顧這些小孩\n\n4\n00:01:03,662 --> 00:01:22,379\n所以這些小孩都必須要被安置在安置機構裡頭那部長應該可以想像像這樣子原生家庭有一些創傷導致這些孩子必須被放在安置機構裡頭我們可以想像他們在心理健康的資源所需要的服務量能應該比一般家庭的小孩來得多對不對普遍上是的\n\n5\n00:01:23,780 --> 00:01:51,863\n那部長如果你也認同那我要跟部長反映喔目前很多安置機構我知道相關的法規都有規定不管是兒少福利機構或是團體家庭所謂的團家都有規定有相關的標準也有說要給心理輔導機制那我知道你們衛福部也說有非常多機制都已經在進行了可是實務上的狀況就是可能這些機構彼此的服務品質有一些落差或者是有一些機構的所在地理位置很偏鄉很多人不要去\n\n6\n00:01:52,623 --> 00:02:19,935\n那他們能不能真的找到夠好的心理師也好社工師也好相關的心理健康資源進到現場服務小孩我們其實是很多擔心因為很多現場的聲音告訴我們是不足的那在很多公聽會之後呢我們在2月6號我們辦公室在2月6號發函要求衛福部在未來的兒少法修法會議專家團體諮詢會當中應該要找心理學精神醫學的專家學者來開會\n\n7\n00:02:21,876 --> 00:02:31,484\n討論兒少法修法的時候只要談論到安置兒少心理機構的時候我們應該要更專業的心理健康支持我們希望你們三週內給我們相關的會議規劃好沒問題不是部長你說沒問題\n\n8\n00:02:36,628 --> 00:02:51,380\n你的同仁現在要哭了來部長來看下一張結果三個禮拜後你們給我的回應是這樣你們衛福部說不用他說已經有相關資源了都已經ready了不需要為了這些安置機構的小孩再有什麼方案再有什麼專家會議他說不用不一定有他說不用要怎麼樣\n\n9\n00:02:56,143 --> 00:03:20,159\n因為那個委員是專家啦我回去了解一下我覺得應該您講的有道理我們再來重新檢討因為不是只有心理醫生告訴我們也不是只有心理師告訴我們是很多安置機構的社工老師還有在裡面服務的心理師他們真的就告訴我們這幾年我們社會越來越困難越來越複雜很多被送到安置機構的小孩他們的心理創傷的問題越來越複雜\n\n10\n00:03:22,481 --> 00:03:48,771\n那如果有夠多專業的人進來幫忙我覺得對孩子是好事對機構裡面這些在照顧小孩的大人也是好事保重對不對對啦所以我很謝謝你們同仁給我們這些回應我也知道衛福部在很多心理健康真的已經非常非常非常認真我也知道我們花了很多錢很多資源希望協助國人整體的身心健康所以我今天沒有要質疑這個我只是要拜託部長我們在安置機構的部分\n\n11\n00:03:49,531 --> 00:04:11,862\n未來兒少全法修法我們把這個部分先聽聽專家的聲音不管是邀請安置機構的社工老師心理老師或是這些安置機構主持人來加上心理學精神醫學的相關專家我想這個部分是我非常重視我本身也是台大心理系的和平教授我對心理的一個重要性所以您的\n\n12\n00:04:17,225 --> 00:04:35,458\n您的指導我個人非常的認同部長我不敢說指導啦就拜託啦好我們為孩子爭取權益其實就是在為大人更好的工作環境爭取權益好最後一題來很快很快那另外一個比較困難的我先說我自己承認這題比較難但是我們花一些時間長一點時間來討論\n\n13\n00:04:37,339 --> 00:05:06,118\n我們後續在很願意跟衛福部直接召開討論會議就是這個安置機構的離開安置機構的小孩呢在兒少全法原來的條文59跟62條要求政府要追蹤輔導至少一年事實上現在也有這樣做那衛福部你們修法說要改成以後要提供家庭支持還有自立生活服務這個正向完全給予肯定也很謝謝衛福部願意陪孩子一起面對這個現實可是有一個比較大的困境就是目前我們政府提供支持服務到21歲\n\n14\n00:05:07,519 --> 00:05:29,895\n可是在国外他们有发现很多21岁就算已经年满21岁的小孩但是我刚刚说他来自有创伤的原生家庭他来自复杂的社区环境他可能甚至在学校的学习都没有那么有把握的情况下我们很难想象他一离开安置机构他就要自己立刻独立自主生活其实也有很多儿少有跟我们来反映这个现况\n\n15\n00:05:30,515 --> 00:05:41,429\n但我知道我們把21歲延伸到23或25有資源分配的問題有資源分配的困境但我們有沒有機會往這裡去想部長你覺得呢\n\n16\n00:05:42,947 --> 00:06:00,207\n我覺得如果專家覺得這樣子是必要的我們絕對仔細的來研議啊是是那至少我們開啟研議的討論好不好好好那這個部分我們辦公室也會持續來追蹤好今天非常謝謝部長兩個議題支持而少都給予正面的回應我們一起努力謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝謝謝陳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6906\t12460\t好謝謝主席謝謝劉建國學長好那主席我請部長謝謝\n19623\t40591\t好部長辛苦了今天的議題我們當然關心啦不過因為還有另外一個兒少全法修法在即兒少全法的部分有一個部分我認為是目前我們在幾次公聽會當中或者是目前衛福部給我們的資料裡面我們已經都做了研究也跟你們所知跟你們討論過我們覺得有匱乏的地方我這裡就直接跟部長討論好來下一頁\n46096\t63182\t主要就是因為目前安置在安置機構裡面的兒少在2024年的數字有5000多位將近6000位而這些孩子們他不管年紀多大他都是因為原生家庭的有一些問題沒有辦法照顧這些小孩\n63662\t82379\t所以這些小孩都必須要被安置在安置機構裡頭那部長應該可以想像像這樣子原生家庭有一些創傷導致這些孩子必須被放在安置機構裡頭我們可以想像他們在心理健康的資源所需要的服務量能應該比一般家庭的小孩來得多對不對 普遍上是的\n83780\t111863\t那部長如果你也認同 那我要跟部長反映喔目前很多安置機構 我知道相關的法規都有規定不管是兒少福利機構或是團體家庭 所謂的團家都有規定有相關的標準也有說要給心理輔導機制那我知道你們衛福部也說有非常多機制都已經在進行了可是實務上的狀況就是可能這些機構彼此的服務品質有一些落差或者是有一些機構的所在地理位置很偏鄉很多人不要去\n112623\t139935\t那他們能不能真的找到夠好的心理師也好社工師也好相關的心理健康資源進到現場服務小孩我們其實是很多擔心因為很多現場的聲音告訴我們是不足的那在很多公聽會之後呢我們在2月6號我們辦公室在2月6號發函要求衛福部在未來的兒少法修法會議專家團體諮詢會當中應該要找心理學精神醫學的專家學者來開會\n141876\t151484\t討論兒少法修法的時候只要談論到安置兒少心理機構的時候我們應該要更專業的心理健康支持我們希望你們三週內給我們相關的會議規劃好 沒問題不是 部長你說沒問題\n156628\t171380\t你的同仁現在要哭了 來部長來看下一張結果三個禮拜後你們給我的回應是這樣你們衛福部說不用他說已經有相關資源了 都已經ready了不需要為了這些安置機構的小孩再有什麼方案 再有什麼專家會議 他說不用不一定有他說不用 要怎麼樣\n176143\t200159\t因為那個委員是專家啦我回去了解一下我覺得應該您講的有道理我們再來重新檢討因為不是只有心理醫生告訴我們也不是只有心理師告訴我們是很多安置機構的社工老師還有在裡面服務的心理師他們真的就告訴我們這幾年我們社會越來越困難越來越複雜很多被送到安置機構的小孩他們的心理創傷的問題越來越複雜\n202481\t228771\t那如果有夠多專業的人進來幫忙我覺得對孩子是好事對機構裡面這些在照顧小孩的大人也是好事保重對不對對啦所以我很謝謝你們同仁給我們這些回應我也知道衛福部在很多心理健康真的已經非常非常非常認真我也知道我們花了很多錢很多資源希望協助國人整體的身心健康所以我今天沒有要質疑這個我只是要拜託部長我們在安置機構的部分\n229531\t251862\t未來兒少全法修法我們把這個部分先聽聽專家的聲音不管是邀請安置機構的社工老師心理老師或是這些安置機構主持人來加上心理學精神醫學的相關專家我想這個部分是我非常重視我本身也是台大心理系的和平教授我對心理的一個重要性所以您的\n257225\t275458\t您的指導我個人非常的認同部長我不敢說指導啦就拜託啦好我們為孩子爭取權益其實就是在為大人更好的工作環境爭取權益好最後一題來很快很快那另外一個比較困難的我先說我自己承認這題比較難但是我們花一些時間長一點時間來討論\n277339\t306118\t我們後續在很願意跟衛福部直接召開討論會議就是這個安置機構的離開安置機構的小孩呢在兒少全法原來的條文59跟62條要求政府要追蹤輔導至少一年事實上現在也有這樣做那衛福部你們修法說要改成以後要提供家庭支持還有自立生活服務這個正向完全給予肯定也很謝謝衛福部願意陪孩子一起面對這個現實可是有一個比較大的困境就是目前我們政府提供支持服務到21歲\n307519\t329895\t可是在国外他们有发现很多21岁就算已经年满21岁的小孩但是我刚刚说他来自有创伤的原生家庭他来自复杂的社区环境他可能甚至在学校的学习都没有那么有把握的情况下我们很难想象他一离开安置机构他就要自己立刻独立自主生活其实也有很多儿少有跟我们来反映这个现况\n330515\t341429\t但我知道我們把21歲延伸到23或25有資源分配的問題有資源分配的困境但我們有沒有機會往這裡去想部長你覺得呢\n342947\t360207\t我覺得如果專家覺得這樣子是必要的我們絕對仔細的來研議啊是是那至少我們開啟研議的討論好不好好好那這個部分我們辦公室也會持續來追蹤好今天非常謝謝部長兩個議題支持而少都給予正面的回應我們一起努力謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝謝謝陳委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席謝謝劉建國學長好那主席我請部長謝謝\n好部長辛苦了今天的議題我們當然關心啦不過因為還有另外一個兒少全法修法在即兒少全法的部分有一個部分我認為是目前我們在幾次公聽會當中或者是目前衛福部給我們的資料裡面我們已經都做了研究也跟你們所知跟你們討論過我們覺得有匱乏的地方我這裡就直接跟部長討論好來下一頁\n主要就是因為目前安置在安置機構裡面的兒少在2024年的數字有5000多位將近6000位而這些孩子們他不管年紀多大他都是因為原生家庭的有一些問題沒有辦法照顧這些小孩\n所以這些小孩都必須要被安置在安置機構裡頭那部長應該可以想像像這樣子原生家庭有一些創傷導致這些孩子必須被放在安置機構裡頭我們可以想像他們在心理健康的資源所需要的服務量能應該比一般家庭的小孩來得多對不對 普遍上是的\n那部長如果你也認同 那我要跟部長反映喔目前很多安置機構 我知道相關的法規都有規定不管是兒少福利機構或是團體家庭 所謂的團家都有規定有相關的標準也有說要給心理輔導機制那我知道你們衛福部也說有非常多機制都已經在進行了可是實務上的狀況就是可能這些機構彼此的服務品質有一些落差或者是有一些機構的所在地理位置很偏鄉很多人不要去\n那他們能不能真的找到夠好的心理師也好社工師也好相關的心理健康資源進到現場服務小孩我們其實是很多擔心因為很多現場的聲音告訴我們是不足的那在很多公聽會之後呢我們在2月6號我們辦公室在2月6號發函要求衛福部在未來的兒少法修法會議專家團體諮詢會當中應該要找心理學精神醫學的專家學者來開會\n討論兒少法修法的時候只要談論到安置兒少心理機構的時候我們應該要更專業的心理健康支持我們希望你們三週內給我們相關的會議規劃好 沒問題不是 部長你說沒問題\n你的同仁現在要哭了 來部長來看下一張結果三個禮拜後你們給我的回應是這樣你們衛福部說不用他說已經有相關資源了 都已經ready了不需要為了這些安置機構的小孩再有什麼方案 再有什麼專家會議 他說不用不一定有他說不用 要怎麼樣\n因為那個委員是專家啦我回去了解一下我覺得應該您講的有道理我們再來重新檢討因為不是只有心理醫生告訴我們也不是只有心理師告訴我們是很多安置機構的社工老師還有在裡面服務的心理師他們真的就告訴我們這幾年我們社會越來越困難越來越複雜很多被送到安置機構的小孩他們的心理創傷的問題越來越複雜\n那如果有夠多專業的人進來幫忙我覺得對孩子是好事對機構裡面這些在照顧小孩的大人也是好事保重對不對對啦所以我很謝謝你們同仁給我們這些回應我也知道衛福部在很多心理健康真的已經非常非常非常認真我也知道我們花了很多錢很多資源希望協助國人整體的身心健康所以我今天沒有要質疑這個我只是要拜託部長我們在安置機構的部分\n未來兒少全法修法我們把這個部分先聽聽專家的聲音不管是邀請安置機構的社工老師心理老師或是這些安置機構主持人來加上心理學精神醫學的相關專家我想這個部分是我非常重視我本身也是台大心理系的和平教授我對心理的一個重要性所以您的\n您的指導我個人非常的認同部長我不敢說指導啦就拜託啦好我們為孩子爭取權益其實就是在為大人更好的工作環境爭取權益好最後一題來很快很快那另外一個比較困難的我先說我自己承認這題比較難但是我們花一些時間長一點時間來討論\n我們後續在很願意跟衛福部直接召開討論會議就是這個安置機構的離開安置機構的小孩呢在兒少全法原來的條文59跟62條要求政府要追蹤輔導至少一年事實上現在也有這樣做那衛福部你們修法說要改成以後要提供家庭支持還有自立生活服務這個正向完全給予肯定也很謝謝衛福部願意陪孩子一起面對這個現實可是有一個比較大的困境就是目前我們政府提供支持服務到21歲\n可是在国外他们有发现很多21岁就算已经年满21岁的小孩但是我刚刚说他来自有创伤的原生家庭他来自复杂的社区环境他可能甚至在学校的学习都没有那么有把握的情况下我们很难想象他一离开安置机构他就要自己立刻独立自主生活其实也有很多儿少有跟我们来反映这个现况\n但我知道我們把21歲延伸到23或25有資源分配的問題有資源分配的困境但我們有沒有機會往這裡去想部長你覺得呢\n我覺得如果專家覺得這樣子是必要的我們絕對仔細的來研議啊是是那至少我們開啟研議的討論好不好好好那這個部分我們辦公室也會持續來追蹤好今天非常謝謝部長兩個議題支持而少都給予正面的回應我們一起努力謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝謝謝陳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.906 --> 00:12.460\n好謝謝主席謝謝劉建國學長好那主席我請部長謝謝\n\n00:19.623 --> 00:40.591\n好部長辛苦了今天的議題我們當然關心啦不過因為還有另外一個兒少全法修法在即兒少全法的部分有一個部分我認為是目前我們在幾次公聽會當中或者是目前衛福部給我們的資料裡面我們已經都做了研究也跟你們所知跟你們討論過我們覺得有匱乏的地方我這裡就直接跟部長討論好來下一頁\n\n00:46.096 --> 01:03.182\n主要就是因為目前安置在安置機構裡面的兒少在2024年的數字有5000多位將近6000位而這些孩子們他不管年紀多大他都是因為原生家庭的有一些問題沒有辦法照顧這些小孩\n\n01:03.662 --> 01:22.379\n所以這些小孩都必須要被安置在安置機構裡頭那部長應該可以想像像這樣子原生家庭有一些創傷導致這些孩子必須被放在安置機構裡頭我們可以想像他們在心理健康的資源所需要的服務量能應該比一般家庭的小孩來得多對不對普遍上是的\n\n01:23.780 --> 01:51.863\n那部長如果你也認同那我要跟部長反映喔目前很多安置機構我知道相關的法規都有規定不管是兒少福利機構或是團體家庭所謂的團家都有規定有相關的標準也有說要給心理輔導機制那我知道你們衛福部也說有非常多機制都已經在進行了可是實務上的狀況就是可能這些機構彼此的服務品質有一些落差或者是有一些機構的所在地理位置很偏鄉很多人不要去\n\n01:52.623 --> 02:19.935\n那他們能不能真的找到夠好的心理師也好社工師也好相關的心理健康資源進到現場服務小孩我們其實是很多擔心因為很多現場的聲音告訴我們是不足的那在很多公聽會之後呢我們在2月6號我們辦公室在2月6號發函要求衛福部在未來的兒少法修法會議專家團體諮詢會當中應該要找心理學精神醫學的專家學者來開會\n\n02:21.876 --> 02:31.484\n討論兒少法修法的時候只要談論到安置兒少心理機構的時候我們應該要更專業的心理健康支持我們希望你們三週內給我們相關的會議規劃好沒問題不是部長你說沒問題\n\n02:36.628 --> 02:51.380\n你的同仁現在要哭了來部長來看下一張結果三個禮拜後你們給我的回應是這樣你們衛福部說不用他說已經有相關資源了都已經ready了不需要為了這些安置機構的小孩再有什麼方案再有什麼專家會議他說不用不一定有他說不用要怎麼樣\n\n02:56.143 --> 03:20.159\n因為那個委員是專家啦我回去了解一下我覺得應該您講的有道理我們再來重新檢討因為不是只有心理醫生告訴我們也不是只有心理師告訴我們是很多安置機構的社工老師還有在裡面服務的心理師他們真的就告訴我們這幾年我們社會越來越困難越來越複雜很多被送到安置機構的小孩他們的心理創傷的問題越來越複雜\n\n03:22.481 --> 03:48.771\n那如果有夠多專業的人進來幫忙我覺得對孩子是好事對機構裡面這些在照顧小孩的大人也是好事保重對不對對啦所以我很謝謝你們同仁給我們這些回應我也知道衛福部在很多心理健康真的已經非常非常非常認真我也知道我們花了很多錢很多資源希望協助國人整體的身心健康所以我今天沒有要質疑這個我只是要拜託部長我們在安置機構的部分\n\n03:49.531 --> 04:11.862\n未來兒少全法修法我們把這個部分先聽聽專家的聲音不管是邀請安置機構的社工老師心理老師或是這些安置機構主持人來加上心理學精神醫學的相關專家我想這個部分是我非常重視我本身也是台大心理系的和平教授我對心理的一個重要性所以您的\n\n04:17.225 --> 04:35.458\n您的指導我個人非常的認同部長我不敢說指導啦就拜託啦好我們為孩子爭取權益其實就是在為大人更好的工作環境爭取權益好最後一題來很快很快那另外一個比較困難的我先說我自己承認這題比較難但是我們花一些時間長一點時間來討論\n\n04:37.339 --> 05:06.118\n我們後續在很願意跟衛福部直接召開討論會議就是這個安置機構的離開安置機構的小孩呢在兒少全法原來的條文59跟62條要求政府要追蹤輔導至少一年事實上現在也有這樣做那衛福部你們修法說要改成以後要提供家庭支持還有自立生活服務這個正向完全給予肯定也很謝謝衛福部願意陪孩子一起面對這個現實可是有一個比較大的困境就是目前我們政府提供支持服務到21歲\n\n05:07.519 --> 05:29.895\n可是在国外他们有发现很多21岁就算已经年满21岁的小孩但是我刚刚说他来自有创伤的原生家庭他来自复杂的社区环境他可能甚至在学校的学习都没有那么有把握的情况下我们很难想象他一离开安置机构他就要自己立刻独立自主生活其实也有很多儿少有跟我们来反映这个现况\n\n05:30.515 --> 05:41.429\n但我知道我們把21歲延伸到23或25有資源分配的問題有資源分配的困境但我們有沒有機會往這裡去想部長你覺得呢\n\n05:42.947 --> 06:00.207\n我覺得如果專家覺得這樣子是必要的我們絕對仔細的來研議啊是是那至少我們開啟研議的討論好不好好好那這個部分我們辦公室也會持續來追蹤好今天非常謝謝部長兩個議題支持而少都給予正面的回應我們一起努力謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝謝謝陳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.906,"end":12.46,"text":"好謝謝主席謝謝劉建國學長好那主席我請部長謝謝"},{"start":19.623,"end":40.591,"text":"好部長辛苦了今天的議題我們當然關心啦不過因為還有另外一個兒少全法修法在即兒少全法的部分有一個部分我認為是目前我們在幾次公聽會當中或者是目前衛福部給我們的資料裡面我們已經都做了研究也跟你們所知跟你們討論過我們覺得有匱乏的地方我這裡就直接跟部長討論好來下一頁"},{"start":46.096,"end":63.182,"text":"主要就是因為目前安置在安置機構裡面的兒少在2024年的數字有5000多位將近6000位而這些孩子們他不管年紀多大他都是因為原生家庭的有一些問題沒有辦法照顧這些小孩"},{"start":63.662,"end":82.379,"text":"所以這些小孩都必須要被安置在安置機構裡頭那部長應該可以想像像這樣子原生家庭有一些創傷導致這些孩子必須被放在安置機構裡頭我們可以想像他們在心理健康的資源所需要的服務量能應該比一般家庭的小孩來得多對不對 普遍上是的"},{"start":83.78,"end":111.863,"text":"那部長如果你也認同 那我要跟部長反映喔目前很多安置機構 我知道相關的法規都有規定不管是兒少福利機構或是團體家庭 所謂的團家都有規定有相關的標準也有說要給心理輔導機制那我知道你們衛福部也說有非常多機制都已經在進行了可是實務上的狀況就是可能這些機構彼此的服務品質有一些落差或者是有一些機構的所在地理位置很偏鄉很多人不要去"},{"start":112.623,"end":139.935,"text":"那他們能不能真的找到夠好的心理師也好社工師也好相關的心理健康資源進到現場服務小孩我們其實是很多擔心因為很多現場的聲音告訴我們是不足的那在很多公聽會之後呢我們在2月6號我們辦公室在2月6號發函要求衛福部在未來的兒少法修法會議專家團體諮詢會當中應該要找心理學精神醫學的專家學者來開會"},{"start":141.876,"end":151.484,"text":"討論兒少法修法的時候只要談論到安置兒少心理機構的時候我們應該要更專業的心理健康支持我們希望你們三週內給我們相關的會議規劃好 沒問題不是 部長你說沒問題"},{"start":156.628,"end":171.38,"text":"你的同仁現在要哭了 來部長來看下一張結果三個禮拜後你們給我的回應是這樣你們衛福部說不用他說已經有相關資源了 都已經ready了不需要為了這些安置機構的小孩再有什麼方案 再有什麼專家會議 他說不用不一定有他說不用 要怎麼樣"},{"start":176.143,"end":200.159,"text":"因為那個委員是專家啦我回去了解一下我覺得應該您講的有道理我們再來重新檢討因為不是只有心理醫生告訴我們也不是只有心理師告訴我們是很多安置機構的社工老師還有在裡面服務的心理師他們真的就告訴我們這幾年我們社會越來越困難越來越複雜很多被送到安置機構的小孩他們的心理創傷的問題越來越複雜"},{"start":202.481,"end":228.771,"text":"那如果有夠多專業的人進來幫忙我覺得對孩子是好事對機構裡面這些在照顧小孩的大人也是好事保重對不對對啦所以我很謝謝你們同仁給我們這些回應我也知道衛福部在很多心理健康真的已經非常非常非常認真我也知道我們花了很多錢很多資源希望協助國人整體的身心健康所以我今天沒有要質疑這個我只是要拜託部長我們在安置機構的部分"},{"start":229.531,"end":251.862,"text":"未來兒少全法修法我們把這個部分先聽聽專家的聲音不管是邀請安置機構的社工老師心理老師或是這些安置機構主持人來加上心理學精神醫學的相關專家我想這個部分是我非常重視我本身也是台大心理系的和平教授我對心理的一個重要性所以您的"},{"start":257.225,"end":275.458,"text":"您的指導我個人非常的認同部長我不敢說指導啦就拜託啦好我們為孩子爭取權益其實就是在為大人更好的工作環境爭取權益好最後一題來很快很快那另外一個比較困難的我先說我自己承認這題比較難但是我們花一些時間長一點時間來討論"},{"start":277.339,"end":306.118,"text":"我們後續在很願意跟衛福部直接召開討論會議就是這個安置機構的離開安置機構的小孩呢在兒少全法原來的條文59跟62條要求政府要追蹤輔導至少一年事實上現在也有這樣做那衛福部你們修法說要改成以後要提供家庭支持還有自立生活服務這個正向完全給予肯定也很謝謝衛福部願意陪孩子一起面對這個現實可是有一個比較大的困境就是目前我們政府提供支持服務到21歲"},{"start":307.519,"end":329.895,"text":"可是在国外他们有发现很多21岁就算已经年满21岁的小孩但是我刚刚说他来自有创伤的原生家庭他来自复杂的社区环境他可能甚至在学校的学习都没有那么有把握的情况下我们很难想象他一离开安置机构他就要自己立刻独立自主生活其实也有很多儿少有跟我们来反映这个现况"},{"start":330.515,"end":341.429,"text":"但我知道我們把21歲延伸到23或25有資源分配的問題有資源分配的困境但我們有沒有機會往這裡去想部長你覺得呢"},{"start":342.947,"end":360.207,"text":"我覺得如果專家覺得這樣子是必要的我們絕對仔細的來研議啊是是那至少我們開啟研議的討論好不好好好那這個部分我們辦公室也會持續來追蹤好今天非常謝謝部長兩個議題支持而少都給予正面的回應我們一起努力謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝謝謝陳委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1481,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（13時59分）謝謝主席，謝謝劉建國學長。主席，我請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：部長請。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好！"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，辛苦了！"],["邱部長泰源：是，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：今天的議題我們當然關心，不過因為還有另外一個兒少權法修法在即，兒少權法的部分，有一個部分我認為是目前在幾次公聽會當中，或者是目前衛福部給我們的資料裡面，我們已經都做了研究，也跟你們索資，跟你們討論過，我們覺得有匱乏的地方，在這裡就直接跟部長討論。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：主要就是因為目前安置在安置機構裡面的兒少在2024年的數字有五千多位，將近6,000位，而這些孩子們不管年紀多大，他都是因為原生家庭有一些問題沒有辦法照顧這些小孩，所以這些小孩都必須要被安置在安置機構裡頭。部長應該可以想像，像這樣子原生家庭有一些創傷，導致這些孩子必須被放在安置機構裡頭，我們可以想像他們在心理健康的資源所需要的服務量能應該比一般家庭的小孩來得多，對不對？普遍上啦！"],["邱部長泰源：是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，部長，如果你也認同，那我要跟部長反映，目前很多安置機構我知道相關的法規都有規定，不管是兒少福利機構或是團體家庭（團家）都有規定、有相關的標準，也有說要給心理輔導機制，我知道你們衛福部也說有非常多的機制都已經在進行了，可是實務上的狀況就是這些機構彼此的服務品質可能有一些落差，或者是有一些機構的所在地理位置很偏鄉，很多人不要去，那他們能不能真的找到夠好的心理師也好，社工師也好，對於相關的心理健康資源進到現場服務小孩，我們其實是很擔心，因為很多現場的聲音告訴我們是不足的。","在很多公聽會之後，我們辦公室在2月6日發函要求衛福部，在未來的兒少法修法會議、專家團體諮詢會當中，應該要找心理學與精神醫學的專家學者來開會，在討論兒少法修法的時候，只要談論到安置兒少心理機構的時候，應該要有更專業的心理健康支持，所以我們希望你們3週內給我們相關的會議規劃。"],["邱部長泰源：好，沒問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：不是，部長你說沒問題，你的同仁現在要哭了，來，部長，你看下一張，結果3個禮拜後你們給我們的回應是這樣，你們衛福部說不用！它說已經有相關資源了，都已經ready了，不需要為了這些安置機構的小孩再有什麼方案、再有什麼專家會議，它說不用，部長，它說不用耶！這要怎麼辦？但是你剛才說要耶！"],["邱部長泰源：因為委員是專家啦！我回去瞭解一下，我覺得應該您講得有道理，我們再來重新檢討。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，因為不是只有心理醫生告訴我們，也不是只有心理師告訴我們，是很多安置機構的社工、老師還有在裡面服務的心理師，他們真的就告訴我們這幾年社會越來越困難、越來越複雜，很多被送到安置機構的小孩，他們心理創傷的問題越來越複雜，如果有夠多專業的人進來幫忙，我覺得對孩子是好事，對機構裡面這些在照顧小孩的大人也是好事，部長，對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：對啦？"],["邱部長泰源：當然。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以我很謝謝你們同仁給我們這些回應，我知道衛福部在很多心理健康真的已經非常、非常、非常認真，我也知道我們花了很多錢、很多資源，希望協助國人整體的身心健康，所以我今天沒有要質疑這個，我只是要拜託部長，在安置機構的部分，未來兒少權法修法嘛！我們在這個部分先聽聽專家的聲音，不管是邀請安置機構的社工、老師、心理老師或是這些安置機構的主持人來，加上心理學、精神醫學的相關專家，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我想這個部分是我非常重視的，我本身也是臺大心理系的合聘教授，所以我對心理的重要性……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，那你要問你的專業同僚。"],["邱部長泰源：所以您的指導，我個人非常地認同。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，我不敢說指導啦！是拜託啦！我們為孩子爭取權益，其實就是在為大人更好的工作環境爭取權益。","好，最後一題，另外一個比較困難的，我先說我自己承認這一題比較難，但是我們花一些時間、長一點時間來討論，我們後續很願意跟衛福部直接召開討論會議，就是離開安置機構的小孩，在兒少權法原來的條文第五十九條跟第六十二條要求政府要追蹤輔導至少1年，事實上現在也有這樣做，那衛福部你們修法說要改成以後要提供家庭支持還有自立生活服務，這個正向完全給予肯定，也很謝謝衛福部願意陪孩子一起面對這個現實，可是有一個比較大的困境就是，目前政府提供支持服務到21歲，可是在國外他們有發現很多就算已經年滿21歲的小孩，就像我剛剛說的，他來自有創傷的原生家庭，他來自複雜的社區環境，他甚至在學校的學習可能都沒有那麼有把握的情況下，我們很難想像他一離開安置機構就要自己立刻獨立自主生活，其實也有很多兒少來跟我們反映這個現況，當然我知道我們把21歲延伸到23或25歲有資源分配的問題、有資源分配的困境，但我們有沒有機會往這裡去想？部長，你覺得呢？"],["邱部長泰源：我覺得如果專家認為這樣子是必要的，我們絕對仔細地來研議。"],["陳委員培瑜：是，至少我們開啟研議的討論，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個部分我們辦公室也會持續來追蹤。"],["邱部長泰源：好，沒問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：今天非常謝謝部長對於支持兒少的兩個議題都給予正面的回應，我們會一起努力，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，謝謝部長。","葉元之、葉元之、葉元之委員不在。","請楊曜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","黃秀芳","王正旭","林淑芬","羅智強","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","洪孟楷","張啓楷","劉建國","陳培瑜","楊曜","王義川"],"page_start":227,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「有關全國急重症醫療量能」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00005"}}}