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\"end\": 552.243, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 552.243, \"end\": 552.603, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 552.603, \"end\": 553.344, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 553.344, \"end\": 553.584, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 553.584, \"end\": 553.784, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 553.784, \"end\": 553.924, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 553.924, \"end\": 554.525, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 554.525, \"end\": 554.745, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 554.745, \"end\": 554.925, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 554.925, \"end\": 555.065, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"八\", \"start\": 555.065, \"end\": 555.326, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 555.326, \"end\": 555.426, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 555.426, \"end\": 555.546, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"火\", 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\"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1539.432, \"end\": 1539.872, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1539.872, \"end\": 1541.494, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1541.494, \"end\": 1541.834, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1541.834, \"end\": 1541.974, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"辛\", \"start\": 1541.974, \"end\": 1542.174, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"苦\", \"start\": 1542.174, \"end\": 1542.434, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1542.434, \"end\": 1542.655, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 1542.655, \"end\": 1542.815, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1542.815, \"end\": 1542.975, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 1542.975, \"end\": 1543.415, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1543.415, \"end\": 1543.555, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 1543.555, \"end\": 1543.716, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 1543.716, \"end\": 1544.076, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1544.076, \"end\": 1545.537, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 1545.537, \"end\": 1545.697, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 1545.697, \"end\": 1545.877, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1545.877, \"end\": 1546.057, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 1546.057, \"end\": 1546.077, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 1547.878, \"end\": 1566.553, \"text\": \"特別要提到的就是本席的區域裡面在平正龍潭在交通的環境上分別有國道1號跟國道3號它中間會經過一條66的快速道路這個就是我們南桃園最主要的公路的資幹特別有這樣子的安排交通\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 1547.878, \"end\": 1547.978, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 1547.978, \"end\": 1548.078, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1548.078, \"end\": 1548.198, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 1548.198, \"end\": 1548.358, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1548.358, \"end\": 1548.498, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1548.498, \"end\": 1548.599, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1548.599, \"end\": 1548.759, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1548.759, \"end\": 1548.979, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 1548.979, \"end\": 1549.159, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 1549.159, \"end\": 1549.259, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1549.259, \"end\": 1549.659, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"域\", \"start\": 1549.659, \"end\": 1549.9, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 1549.9, \"end\": 1550.7, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1550.7, \"end\": 1550.9, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 1550.9, \"end\": 1551.281, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 1551.281, \"end\": 1551.481, \"score\": 0.506}, {\"word\": \"龍\"}, {\"word\": \"潭\", \"start\": 1551.481, \"end\": 1552.101, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1552.101, \"end\": 1552.301, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 1552.301, \"end\": 1552.482, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 1552.482, \"end\": 1552.602, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1552.602, \"end\": 1552.942, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 1552.942, \"end\": 1553.102, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1553.102, \"end\": 1553.582, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 1553.582, \"end\": 1553.783, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 1553.783, \"end\": 1553.943, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1553.943, \"end\": 1554.303, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 1554.303, \"end\": 1555.164, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 1555.164, \"end\": 1555.484, \"score\": 0.681}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 1555.484, \"end\": 1556.385, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 1556.385, \"end\": 1556.565, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 1556.565, \"end\": 1558.787, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1558.787, \"end\": 1559.667, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1559.667, \"end\": 1559.827, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 1559.827, \"end\": 1560.108, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 1560.108, \"end\": 1560.328, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 1560.328, \"end\": 1560.528, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 1560.528, \"end\": 1561.048, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1561.048, \"end\": 1561.208, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1561.208, \"end\": 1561.329, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1561.329, \"end\": 1561.509, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 1561.509, \"end\": 1561.709, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"桃\", \"start\": 1561.709, \"end\": 1562.109, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 1562.109, \"end\": 1562.349, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 1562.349, \"end\": 1562.489, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1562.489, \"end\": 1562.63, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1562.63, \"end\": 1562.97, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 1562.97, \"end\": 1563.21, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 1563.21, \"end\": 1563.41, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1563.41, \"end\": 1564.911, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"幹\"}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 1564.911, \"end\": 1565.071, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 1565.071, \"end\": 1565.192, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1565.192, \"end\": 1565.532, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 1565.532, \"end\": 1565.652, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1565.652, \"end\": 1565.772, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 1565.772, \"end\": 1566.072, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 1566.072, \"end\": 1566.332, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 1566.332, \"end\": 1566.533, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 1566.533, \"end\": 1566.553, \"score\": 0.994}]}, {\"start\": 1567.153, \"end\": 1582.049, \"text\": \"那現在的話我們桃園鄰近的這個雙北有鐵路運輸跟公路運輸那因為有國道還有這個市內的公車運輸在對我們平正龍潭是非常重要的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1567.153, \"end\": 1567.574, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1567.574, \"end\": 1567.734, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1567.734, 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{\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"輸\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1574.24, \"end\": 1574.481, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1574.481, \"end\": 1574.761, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1574.761, \"end\": 1575.382, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 1575.382, \"end\": 1575.882, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1575.882, \"end\": 1577.544, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 1577.544, \"end\": 1577.924, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1577.924, \"end\": 1578.305, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 1578.305, \"end\": 1579.486, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"輸\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1579.486, \"end\": 1580.087, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1580.087, \"end\": 1580.367, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 1580.367, \"end\": 1580.687, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 1580.687, \"end\": 1580.807, \"score\": 0.654}, {\"word\": \"龍\"}, {\"word\": \"潭\", \"start\": 1580.807, \"end\": 1581.188, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1581.188, \"end\": 1581.448, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 1581.448, \"end\": 1581.628, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 1581.628, \"end\": 1581.868, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 1581.868, \"end\": 1582.009, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1582.009, \"end\": 1582.029, \"score\": 0.063}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1582.029, \"end\": 1582.049, \"score\": 0.002}]}, {\"start\": 1582.509, \"end\": 1606.784, \"text\": \"那就是因為有公路運輸那我們更需要的就是一個轉運站轉運站那現在呢因為我們龍潭這個地方就要來做一個轉運站因為龍潭的車子開過來的話就到台北的永林在這邊台北的永林已經有公車轉運站了我們龍潭平鎮都還沒有那我就先來講龍潭部分那龍潭的話我們要做一個整個這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1582.509, \"end\": 1582.669, \"score\": 0.993}, 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1832.273, \"end\": 1832.375, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"登\", \"start\": 1832.375, \"end\": 1832.395, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"記\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,799 --> 00:00:07,180\n謝謝主席請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢謝謝呂委員好卓院長我想先給你看一個表格\n\n2\n00:00:21,361 --> 00:00:36,467\n就是我們去年國營事業有四大國營事業他們的營業上的虧損情形除了是台糖有盈餘57.51億以外其餘的像台電虧損了411億中油虧損了355億台水虧損了41.83億在這種情形之下財務狀況這麼困難的情況之下我們\n\n3\n00:00:47,489 --> 00:01:04,736\n看到就是關係著從台電來講的話台電的虧損的情形就是因為能源配比的問題那現在2016年我們因為我們執意要非核家園的作為目標現在馬上就2026年的今年是2025九個年頭過去了\n\n4\n00:01:07,838 --> 00:01:19,030\n這個虧損的情形就是一再發生也就是因為要非核加鹽所以到2026年的話我們的能源火力會50%燃煤會30%再生能源要20%的能源配比但是現在我們的再生能源的配比\n\n5\n00:01:24,677 --> 00:01:42,471\n達到的目標沒有到20%只有大概11.9%而已在這種情況之下在未來我們要如何讓我們台電這個反虧為盈這個是讓我們大家都要繼續努力的但是我們看到我們就是先給他增資了2500億又給他撥補了500億的情況之下他還是有虧損那目前來講\n\n6\n00:01:48,596 --> 00:01:50,418\n郭營的油電糖水四大公司\n\n7\n00:02:07,677 --> 00:02:28,566\n委員列出來這個表格三家比較呈現嚴重的虧損但是虧損我們都知道原因他都會有很多的政策的目標所以這個部分請部長說明一下為何如此虧損是部長怎麼解決根本問題在哪裡報告委員我想這個因為是當初是因為補貼的這些不漲價的部分所以造成的這個虧損\n\n8\n00:02:30,347 --> 00:02:49,153\n那我們會從這個財務上面我想我們會...不是補貼造成虧損部長你這個語病不是補貼造成虧損是二零一年裡要非核家園的這個目標現在二零二六年了除不我們能源配補不正確政策需要檢討調整才能解決這個問題\n\n9\n00:02:50,593 --> 00:03:12,503\n報告委員我們當然是從各個方面產銷人發財行政跟這個AI的使用各方面的管理的構面下去來評估但是我們從財務面來看它是現在只是提一個財務面的改善那我們有很多的這個其他管理的手法我們也可以從產銷人發財上面\n\n10\n00:03:16,084 --> 00:03:25,398\n中油現在要提出了三年三千五百億的增資你支持吧我還沒有說到他要三千五百億增資我現在問的題目是這樣子我是請問院長部長中油要提出的增資\n\n11\n00:03:32,864 --> 00:03:51,181\n我們沒有收到徵友要提出增資我國營司也沒有收到這樣的一個命令他現在提出三年三千五百億現在提出來對準備要提出規劃了還沒有嘛我就請問還沒有我們要做準備如果他提出來的時候我們會審視需不需要增資這樣好\n\n12\n00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:57,782\n我們講完台電講完中油就必須要跟你講一下這個台電的情形剛剛也講到這個虧損的情形那部長也講了這個撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥\n\n13\n00:04:21,249 --> 00:04:35,334\n才能夠解決所以你看到這個圖表現在目前來講的話火力發電自發電力的話大概2.87如果是購入發電的話是3.46元太陽能的自發電的話是3.94還有我們太陽能的購入的話是4.87風力的話是4.40購入的話是6.59核能發電是多少成本是多少1.42\n\n14\n00:04:49,864 --> 00:05:04,411\n前面這幾屆都是發電當下的成本核能的發電他有很多未來隱性的成本那個是非常非常當然當然有隱性啊人是有這個物質當然當然都有都有都要處理所以再生能源我們希望這個綠電要趕快的達標然後紓解我們未來把這個\n\n15\n00:05:12,074 --> 00:05:39,159\n非核尤其是非核我們要用了核電啊今年的五月核三長就要除役哦七月份就正式到非核家園所以很多我們要講說道路非核的時候那我們的再生能源能量能夠達到我們要求的20%未來2030年的30%能夠達到嗎你能夠達到的話才能讓我們電力穩定如果電力不穩定院長部長企業\n\n16\n00:05:40,299 --> 00:06:06,020\n他會不會出走這是我們憂心的問題報告委員我們會在明年這個2026年的11月我們會讓這個再生能源達到20%不是你要這樣數字會說話你今年才到達差不多12%而已今年到達12%而已對我們現在完全把他這個目前的你目前的太陽能\n\n17\n00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:32,929\n發電在12%裡面佔了7%你的風電的話佔了3%你明年要達到多少您說多少我明年要達到20%20%對在什麼發電機突飛猛進呢用什麼再生能源的發電會讓你達到這20%沒有啊我們就是按照我們所計畫的我們希望你計畫要達到計畫一定可以超過\n\n18\n00:06:34,226 --> 00:06:52,538\n一定可以超過所以我也要請院長我們是要來做一個討論去做調整所以你要放眼看國際上大家的情勢不要每次看到核電你們就把它排除在外完全不願意把它納入去考量你看我們最鄰近的國家日本也好韓國也好\n\n19\n00:06:53,939 --> 00:07:00,980\n在於韓國它在2038年它的核電的結構它就要達到35.6%日本在2040年它核能就要達到20%包括美國它除以核電廠它要重新檢視再來運轉這就是全世界對國際能源上大家的看法\n\n20\n00:07:17,964 --> 00:07:41,946\n所以美國他也說他願意協助我們對這個核電他可以協助我們去重新的來運轉那現在我們核能的管制在現行的法律底下我們5月17號要處理這個是法律的規定那法律沒有變更之前我們只能在法律的規定來做我知道院長你一定要講到法律的問題所以你要聽聽產業界的聲音所有產業界的聲音說沒有錯\n\n21\n00:07:43,908 --> 00:08:09,116\n我們從非核家園可以走進非碳家園在走進非碳家園的時候我們是不是更加的要全面的來做個調整跟檢討檢討什麼呢就是包括了我們包括了一些廚藝的核電廠它的設備它的機具是不是有安全在整個環境結構絕對安全之下我們可以重新來讓有些廚藝的核電\n\n22\n00:08:10,376 --> 00:08:13,718\n我們考慮一下這個名詞非核家園是沒有核能的發電能源但非碳家園是連火力連天然氣\n\n23\n00:08:34,855 --> 00:08:49,293\n只要產生了碳都不行才叫非碳家園所以再生能源嘛再生能源要講說全部百分之百加生能源也是困難的再生能源有沒有碳是乾淨的能源嘛部長講過啊核電就是乾淨的能源啊非碳就是連火力都不能有才叫非碳\n\n24\n00:08:50,404 --> 00:09:17,367\n沒有錯可是我們現在的情況之下我們在討論納入逐步的來做到我們也希望全部都是非碳家園這是最好的啊但是你要看到你未來的話百分之八十目前百分之八十都是火力發電我們的金骰的能源我們的發電就是火力這是我們擔心的未來非核色的話百分之八十的火力的話會達到非碳嗎\n\n25\n00:09:18,208 --> 00:09:44,688\n不可能啊,百分之二十也沒有非碳啊百分之八十也不會是非碳,它還是有碳所以我的戰略思想是所以你沒有聽到我們產業界的聲音嗎我的想法是減碳先行,目標淨零我們從減碳發起所以未來火力發電也要降低到五十、三十以下減碳要先行嘛,未來目標還是要達到淨零那我們希望還是可以做能源備比去調整,好不好\n\n26\n00:09:45,228 --> 00:10:08,346\n我們會照現在的目標前進只要一切的順序都這樣在大家的支持底下像副部長所說明年執議會跟院長部長討論這個問題就是因為台電這兩兄弟啊虧損連連都要用增資用補助的方式我們如果怎麼樣去徹底的來解決他的財務的困境這要講出辦法解決辦法所以是不是能也對比我們怎麼樣\n\n27\n00:10:10,108 --> 00:10:21,586\n逐步來做到國際因素戰爭影響也很多那時候的虧損也很大所以你的天然氣你的煤炭國際的原物料跟著國際的局勢或許有波動嘛\n\n28\n00:10:22,836 --> 00:10:38,720\n才會讓我們電價越來越高讓我們的成本越來越高發電成本越來越高是不是臺灣的原料靠外國進來的比例相當高你不要一直排斥我就希望說我們要怎麼樣去解救這個台電跟我們的爭議一直虧損的情形開放討論跟新的核能技術來做結合\n\n29\n00:10:44,101 --> 00:11:11,244\n像那大家討論的合龍河、小型核電廠我們希望能源配比要有一檔的我們的配比能夠調整這樣子我們的發電成本可以降低台電跟中油不要虧損那我們也可以穩定供電7月才能夠穩定它在我們台灣的工廠的發電產業鏈能夠順利的來運轉這才能夠保障他們不會有出軸的情形好不好這是非常重要的\n\n30\n00:11:13,125 --> 00:11:33,013\n接下來我們講完這個店,這店有預告說四月份要漲店價那漲店價的情形發生,我們人民又要苦哈哈,又會影響到我們整個物價因為我們中油台店它有穩定物價的責任,所以不能一直調漲\n\n31\n00:11:34,073 --> 00:11:57,503\n那所以我想請教的就是說因為我們現在學校我們政府的政策班班有冷氣冷氣我們補助了但是電費啊我們卻沒有每個學校補助為什麼呢因為我們12年國教應該是補助高中國中國小但是我們現在教育部部長郭部長你先請回我們請教育部長\n\n32\n00:11:58,390 --> 00:12:13,385\n麻煩請教育部長備詢因為現在的電費是國中國小有補助高中子沒有補助那你給他冷氣那電費要自己來出的話讓學生的負擔家長的經濟負擔更加的沉重甚至於\n\n33\n00:12:14,346 --> 00:12:36,418\n他會用插卡式的或者錢不夠的話沒冷氣吹有冷氣沒有電就沒冷氣吹了這種情形之下我們是不是我有去查教育部的資料他說因為國中國小是義務教育所以這個是我們教育部我們政府的責任但是高中子不是義務教育那請問部長12年國教\n\n34\n00:12:38,673 --> 00:13:04,585\n現在幾乎國中99%的都為了提升他們的學業都有提升都有99%都念了高中職了那高中又在12年國教是不是應該都屬於義務教育部長打一下以後收支發分改變之後我們還能補助嗎跟委員報告我們事實上在14年我們事實上各級學校我們編了將近59億的這個經費要做這個\n\n35\n00:13:08,449 --> 00:13:27,564\n電匯的一個補貼但是因為另外在未來一個財化法還有我們一個統三我們現在這一個整個年度的一個預算裡邊我們事實上是沒有辦法很精準的去理解到我們教育部目前可用的一個這一個年度的一個預算做這樣一個\n\n36\n00:13:28,485 --> 00:13:43,410\n補充說明那當然高中子裡面有許多來自於地方市這個各縣市市立的一個高中子他本來我知道每次跟你們講到這個你們就提到才化法我們先講制度你全部補助冷氣的學校有總共有三\n\n37\n00:13:51,241 --> 00:14:17,717\n3584個學校國小有2658個學校國中有732個學校你都補助了班班有冷氣也補助了電費高中值只有194校194校的學生你就不能補助嗎而且我們用制度面來講的話12年國教高中值都有自有的一個校務基金相當程度他們都有能力能夠負擔這樣一個水電費\n\n38\n00:14:19,258 --> 00:14:44,088\n就是沒有能力啊就是教育團體來跟本席反映希望我們能為他們發聲啊各位委員報告教育團體有許多的訊息他可能是不夠精準的你不能說他們不夠精準喔他們關心教育關心孩子他們是很精準的包括他們那個他們班費七百塊或是校務基金這個錢不夠所以才要請求你們協助我非常清楚\n\n39\n00:14:45,014 --> 00:15:05,725\n你非常清楚,那我告訴你,請問他們的班費繳多少?他們的校務基金繳多少?校務基金是來自於他們繳的雜費所累積滾輪,留在學校你是跟委員報告,我們高中職,國立高中職現在校務基金超過一億以上的,至少有20%\n\n40\n00:15:07,970 --> 00:15:23,532\n六千萬以上的有八成七成到八成委員知道這樣一個數據嗎但是我們委員很關心我非常感謝委員為學校爭取經費二十萬三十萬五十萬可是他們事實上\n\n41\n00:15:23,993 --> 00:15:50,765\n校務基金就可以拿出來使用但是他們都一直非常節約我也感謝委員關心學校教育但是我們許多中小學的一個校務基金他們沒有善加使用我想這可能也是委員在未來以後可以再進一步去了解的我也請部長下鄉去去了解他們怎麼樣使用冷氣插卡\n\n42\n00:15:52,145 --> 00:16:14,199\n卡片要儲值插下去才可以用電那為什麼國中國小不用呢我們這個近鄰的一個家園這裡邊怎麼樣讓校園永續發展我想使用這個電力能源有效能這是我們學校教育在人才培育的一個很重要的目標\n\n43\n00:16:15,220 --> 00:16:22,534\n你講的我都懂反正把事情都推走就是了議長我想要跟你講的是制度面請問12年國教為什麼叫12年國教\n\n44\n00:16:28,829 --> 00:16:41,020\n所以國中高中國小他們的能源他們的資源是不是要一視同仁要不要一視同仁你教育補助費是補助國中高中你不補助高中嗎地方政府有責任\n\n45\n00:16:50,268 --> 00:17:04,608\n我想地方教育局也有責任他們必須要編年度的預算來協助中小學教育的一個發展當然中央跟地方是協力的想要共同讓台灣的教育發展更好\n\n46\n00:17:05,689 --> 00:17:31,310\n他們要地方政府要協助他們來資源都能夠補助讓孩子們苦我們全不能窮教育苦不能苦了我們的孩子我們如果保護我們孩子如果讓我們孩子資源能夠得到更好的保護我們要做到的我跟委員的想法態度是一致的一致的我們一致從中央拿錢去事情要中央來做\n\n47\n00:17:31,670 --> 00:17:40,621\n不是所以我請院長跟部長把我的問題聽清楚我們現在是講制度面\n\n48\n00:17:42,041 --> 00:18:07,169\n12年國教高中國中國小他們的教育資源應該是一致性的不能有偏頗的你不能說高中部長就說使用者付費國小國中不是使用者付費嗎所以不要有這種偏頗的言論我們用制度一致性的來講所以我還是請部長我們都非常了解地方的狀況每個學校的狀況這個問題這個議題\n\n49\n00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:22,934\n是教育團體提出來請我們來拜他們發聲的所以回去可以研議一下可行性嘛不要一下在這邊就擋掉了所以我們可以研議好那既然你院長這樣講話你才換法讓地方來資助高中是不是這樣子\n\n50\n00:18:34,658 --> 00:18:52,054\n你是這樣子回答的嗎好財務法下去將地方政府來補助高中的電費你的答案就這樣子不只這些還有很多很多的像我們現在各縣市地方政府有部分它的高中值是屬於市立的\n\n51\n00:18:52,594 --> 00:19:13,584\n那麼這個經費在當時就教育部已經全部編到播到地方去但是屬於國立的高中子當然是由國教署來負擔他們學校的營運所以我才會請問部長那屬於國教署的對不對有部分是屬於國教署的一個責任所以請部長回去研議一下不要這麼快就擋掉了因為這個是\n\n52\n00:19:20,308 --> 00:19:34,444\n這個教育團體大家集體的連署發聲希望我們讓部長讓院長知道高中也是需要補助這一塊當然我們的有冷氣也能夠有冷氣可以吹有電可以冷氣吹好不好好謝謝部長那接下來部長我還是在討論學校的問題\n\n53\n00:19:38,809 --> 00:20:02,114\n那因為我們在討論學校這個學務人力不足的情況之下因為在前年的時候新北市發生殺警案那引起社會的關注就是校安的問題那根據112年在學校的校安安全的部分來分析就建議在不同學制的校安為了預防這個重點工作特別的讓我們針對各個學校\n\n54\n00:20:04,935 --> 00:20:24,849\n他們做了一個統計學校的這個校安的通報的統計素面我們看到我統計的包括了國小國中跟高中每個學校通報的情形在這個表上都有那我們撇開這個天災疾病這個部分拿掉來最重要的\n\n55\n00:20:25,609 --> 00:20:45,451\n包括兒童跟少年的保護包括家暴或者行為偏差的暴力霸凌等等事件都非常非常的多那因為高中的時候有教官有這個教官的話在學校可以來幫忙維護來做勸導輔導的工作但是國中沒有啊\n\n56\n00:20:46,271 --> 00:21:02,264\n所以說這個柯警案的事情發生之後所以我們特別的就針對這個問題來給學校針對這個問題提出了一個叫做學務創新人力\n\n57\n00:21:03,424 --> 00:21:24,700\n因為教官預缺不補越來越少人力不夠所以你們就來個學務創新人力所以這三年的時間啊他只有補了將近918人1210人1550人大概大概一個學校大概補助了大概三人這三人而已所以部長這人數還是不夠喔\n\n58\n00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:39,667\n跟委員報告我進來以後事實上也感謝我們大院支持學生輔導法通過本來這就是希望說能夠有更多的一個心理輔導專業能夠來協助我們新世代的學生的一個成長\n\n59\n00:21:40,447 --> 00:21:57,437\n那第二個就是我們也看到因為特別在國中青少年的一個發展階段裡邊他們在喜多的這些這個情緒的一個關於或者人際之間一個互動我們也知道對學校在校安事件所以院長在這個部分是非常關心所以我們才額外的編了這個雖然沒有辦法\n\n60\n00:22:05,242 --> 00:22:10,929\n一次到位慢慢逐步逐步所以部長再跟你進一步的討論國中這個學校裡面校士人力的一些補充部長因為我們這個學務創新人力是在高中\n\n61\n00:22:20,259 --> 00:22:46,393\n但是的話因為這個擱淺案發生之後的話我們就要加強到國中嘛你看這個數據國中還是需要很多人力的幫忙那國中部的話我們增加了這個學務人力就是補助國中設置副組長這個方案那國中的補助副組長但是有條件式的啦你要有61個班的人才可以補助1到3個副組長\n\n62\n00:22:47,182 --> 00:22:56,792\n我想我們總體的一個教育經費怎麼樣去用到刀口上那當然希望校園友善的校園裡面你讓我把話講完因為我問題還沒問出來嘛你就不要緊張讓我把問題問出來我其實想要回應委員的是說\n\n63\n00:23:04,639 --> 00:23:23,274\n這個友善校園的一個機制的一個建構還要包含社區家長包括警政我們事實上就一直在努力包含怎麼樣讓社區有更多的一個對學教育部長你不要把問題講完你怎麼回答不是我要的問題呢抱歉不是我要的答案我還沒有把問題講出來嘛\n\n64\n00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:49,171\n你不要占用我太多時間我的問題才問不到幾個而已我的意思是說現在我們的副組長要61班才可以增加1到3人但是你看到59班58班57班他們也是大學校但是沒有副組長的編制他們這麼多的班員沒有辦法只有教師要代理嗎沒有教師願意啊現在要備課\n\n65\n00:23:50,291 --> 00:24:16,181\n所以他們沒有辦法去也不願意來參加做這個組長的工作所以用代課老師所以在這個部分的話我說你可不可以說不要一下地了這麼高標到60班以上可不可以就是說40班或者50班40班增加一個50班增加兩個60班增加三個這樣漸進式的話那你們的制度的美意就可以執行下去是不是\n\n66\n00:24:17,027 --> 00:24:35,462\n謝謝委員的提醒的關心我想總是這個教育經費也要拜託委員未來能夠給更大力的一個支持你編制就已經是一到三人嘛那我說方法上可不可以調整一下我們會再更細緻來看怎麼樣業長你有聽懂我的意思啦業長一直點頭不要說六十班才可以一到三人因為確實有時候他的標準一切就變成\n\n67\n00:24:44,909 --> 00:24:58,392\n這個標準以下的可能一時之間就沒有我也同意委員所講到底切到60班還是59班你的規則你的規範裡面就是要61班以上所以我才說這都是教育團體他們的聲音啦他們的意見所以我也請你把它聽進去做個討論給他們這40班50班也可以有增加這個副組長這缺\n\n68\n00:25:10,898 --> 00:25:13,960\n謝謝委員提醒我們再來看怎麼樣也能夠對特殊狀況執行辦法會更加的\n\n69\n00:25:19,335 --> 00:25:46,077\n讓他們可以使用到這才是重點啦好那我們希望孩子的安全我們來守護也請部長院長我們一起來做這個研議讓他們可以使用到更多來維護校安人員好不好當初我們五打七安校安也是這樣還是安全啦我們會來重新加強檢視委員會提出這個問題那謝謝齁那部長您辛苦您請回好了我接下來要請交通部長喔\n\n70\n00:25:47,878 --> 00:26:06,553\n特別要提到的就是本席的區域裡面在平正龍潭在交通的環境上分別有國道1號跟國道3號它中間會經過一條66的快速道路這個就是我們南桃園最主要的公路的資幹特別有這樣子的安排交通\n\n71\n00:26:07,153 --> 00:26:22,049\n那現在的話我們桃園鄰近的這個雙北有鐵路運輸跟公路運輸那因為有國道還有這個市內的公車運輸在對我們平正龍潭是非常重要的\n\n72\n00:26:22,509 --> 00:26:46,784\n那就是因為有公路運輸那我們更需要的就是一個轉運站轉運站那現在呢因為我們龍潭這個地方就要來做一個轉運站因為龍潭的車子開過來的話就到台北的永林在這邊台北的永林已經有公車轉運站了我們龍潭平鎮都還沒有那我就先來講龍潭部分那龍潭的話我們要做一個整個這個\n\n73\n00:26:49,205 --> 00:27:06,879\n整開區的話時間要比較長包括土地的徵收還有那個都市計畫都要送到內政部去審查那要請內政部快一點幫我們審查通過那但是我們也不能等待啦因為大家我們的民眾鄉親啊都在馬路邊上在等候車子是非常\n\n74\n00:27:07,219 --> 00:27:21,455\n安全而且辛苦的所以我們就有一份的短中長期那這個短期的話我們就會用在我們龍潭的運動公園用人行道跟這個公車站這個地方做公車站的停等這個廊道\n\n75\n00:27:22,196 --> 00:27:37,954\n那這個中期的話我們就會有一個仙島的轉運站就在這個交流道的這周邊我們仙會又租用了這個1250坪的這個用地啊來做一個仙島轉運站大概我們考慮到像八德的\n\n76\n00:27:38,274 --> 00:27:57,749\n他們是會用這簡易的貨櫃屋的方式來做這個我們臨時的這個仙島的轉運站那目前來講的話在這個去年的時候8月份我們已經匯刊完畢了在匯刊完畢的話在去年的12月31號我們也絕標公告那現在就是\n\n77\n00:27:58,409 --> 00:28:22,580\n土地的容許使用跟審查跟都市計畫的審議作業大概114年的7月我們拿到建造之後就可以施工115年的7月就可以完工115年的10月就可以啟用今天為什麼特別特別的來跟我們陳部長來溝通一下共車轉運站很重要如果你到我們地方去我剛剛也講了\n\n78\n00:28:23,260 --> 00:28:51,499\n他就在路邊太陽曬著在等車子沒有一個他們專門的一個候車的地方是很危險的所以我們下短期的話就在運動公園旁邊就用現在人的候車停的地方來等待所以我們是必須要先做個先導的公車先導的這個轉運站那目前的這個經費大概要一億那我們地方政府大概也會跟我們交通部提出申請大概補助三成那這點的話部長可不可以承諾我們\n\n79\n00:28:53,640 --> 00:29:10,031\n來補助我們報告委員桃園確實是客運的運輸非常的重要啦所以轉運站的部分您一直在爭取這個我曉得但是我們的這個公路局的這個公共運輸永續的交通平權的計畫的預算目前有遭刪的那也有遭凍結的\n\n80\n00:29:11,152 --> 00:29:34,084\n所以目前預算還沒有確定之前其實我們很難答應這件事情不過現在桃園市政府他可以先做計畫那並且先用桃園市政府的錢先來做那未來如果我們預算確定之後有需要的話他們來申請我們會來協助部長這個經費我剛剛練了比較多一點時間就告訴你114年今年\n\n81\n00:29:35,014 --> 00:29:59,800\n要施工115年7月要來完工如果我們的財化法過那是明年才會有這個分配那今年的話我們今年跟你提出申請這個經費不是很高啦我說的部分其實是總預算的部分所以說你今年如果送來給你審查的話是今年就要撥啦跟財化法是沒有關係啦財化法過是明年的事情這樣可以嗎我說的是總預算\n\n82\n00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:19,974\n我們預算還沒有確定,因為我們這筆預算有被凍結也有被刪除的所以還沒有最後確定都說會解凍啦生意分子以後就會解凍啦對,如果能解凍的話我們會願意來協助解凍的話我們去申請就可以是不是?請他們來申請好,謝謝李玉琳委員的資訊,謝謝卓院長、各部會所長的備訓\n\n83\n00:30:32,049 --> 00:30:32,395\n接下來我們請登記\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3799\t7180\t謝謝主席 請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢謝謝 呂委員好卓院長 我想先給你看一個表格\n21361\t36467\t就是我們去年國營事業有四大國營事業他們的營業上的虧損情形除了是台糖有盈餘57.51億以外其餘的像台電虧損了411億中油虧損了355億台水虧損了41.83億在這種情形之下財務狀況這麼困難的情況之下我們\n47489\t64736\t看到就是關係著從台電來講的話台電的虧損的情形就是因為能源配比的問題那現在2016年我們因為我們執意要非核家園的作為目標現在馬上就2026年的今年是2025九個年頭過去了\n67838\t79030\t這個虧損的情形就是一再發生也就是因為要非核加鹽所以到2026年的話我們的能源火力會50%燃煤會30%再生能源要20%的能源配比但是現在我們的再生能源的配比\n84677\t102471\t達到的目標沒有到20%只有大概11.9%而已在這種情況之下在未來我們要如何讓我們台電這個反虧為盈這個是讓我們大家都要繼續努力的但是我們看到我們就是先給他增資了2500億又給他撥補了500億的情況之下他還是有虧損那目前來講\n108596\t110418\t郭營的油電糖水四大公司\n127677\t148566\t委員列出來這個表格三家比較呈現嚴重的虧損但是虧損我們都知道原因他都會有很多的政策的目標所以這個部分請部長說明一下為何如此虧損是部長怎麼解決根本問題在哪裡報告委員我想這個因為是當初是因為補貼的這些不漲價的部分所以造成的這個虧損\n150347\t169153\t那我們會從這個財務上面我想我們會...不是補貼造成虧損部長你這個語病不是補貼造成虧損是二零一年裡要非核家園的這個目標現在二零二六年了除不我們能源配補不正確政策需要檢討調整才能解決這個問題\n170593\t192503\t報告委員我們當然是從各個方面產銷人發財行政跟這個AI的使用各方面的管理的構面下去來評估但是我們從財務面來看它是現在只是提一個財務面的改善那我們有很多的這個其他管理的手法我們也可以從產銷人發財上面\n196084\t205398\t中油現在要提出了三年三千五百億的增資你支持吧我還沒有說到他要三千五百億增資我現在問的題目是這樣子我是請問院長部長中油要提出的增資\n212864\t231181\t我們沒有收到徵友要提出增資我國營司也沒有收到這樣的一個命令他現在提出三年三千五百億現在提出來對準備要提出規劃了還沒有嘛我就請問還沒有我們要做準備如果他提出來的時候我們會審視需不需要增資這樣好\n231840\t237782\t我們講完台電講完中油就必須要跟你講一下這個台電的情形剛剛也講到這個虧損的情形那部長也講了這個撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥\n261249\t275334\t才能夠解決所以你看到這個圖表現在目前來講的話火力發電自發電力的話大概2.87如果是購入發電的話是3.46元太陽能的自發電的話是3.94還有我們太陽能的購入的話是4.87風力的話是4.40購入的話是6.59核能發電是多少成本是多少1.42\n289864\t304411\t前面這幾屆都是發電當下的成本核能的發電他有很多未來隱性的成本那個是非常非常當然當然有隱性啊人是有這個物質當然當然都有都有都要處理所以再生能源我們希望這個綠電要趕快的達標然後紓解我們未來把這個\n312074\t339159\t非核尤其是非核我們要用了核電啊今年的五月核三長就要除役哦七月份就正式到非核家園所以很多我們要講說道路非核的時候那我們的再生能源能量能夠達到我們要求的20%未來2030年的30%能夠達到嗎你能夠達到的話才能讓我們電力穩定如果電力不穩定院長 部長 企業\n340299\t366020\t他會不會出走 這是我們憂心的問題報告委員 我們會在明年這個2026年的11月我們會讓這個再生能源達到20%不是你要這樣 數字會說話你今年才到達差不多12%而已 今年到達12%而已對 我們現在完全把他這個目前的你目前的太陽能\n366840\t392929\t發電在12%裡面佔了7%你的風電的話佔了3%你明年要達到多少 您說多少我明年要達到20%20% 對在什麼發電機突飛猛進呢用什麼再生能源的發電會讓你達到這20%沒有啊 我們就是按照我們所計畫的我們希望 你計畫要達到計畫一定可以超過\n394226\t412538\t一定可以超過所以我也要請院長我們是要來做一個討論去做調整所以你要放眼看國際上大家的情勢不要每次看到核電你們就把它排除在外完全不願意把它納入去考量你看我們最鄰近的國家日本也好 韓國也好\n413939\t420980\t在於韓國它在2038年它的核電的結構它就要達到35.6%日本在2040年它核能就要達到20%包括美國它除以核電廠它要重新檢視再來運轉這就是全世界對國際能源上大家的看法\n437964\t461946\t所以美國他也說他願意協助我們對這個核電他可以協助我們去重新的來運轉那現在我們核能的管制在現行的法律底下我們5月17號要處理這個是法律的規定那法律沒有變更之前我們只能在法律的規定來做我知道院長你一定要講到法律的問題所以你要聽聽產業界的聲音所有產業界的聲音說沒有錯\n463908\t489116\t我們從非核家園可以走進非碳家園在走進非碳家園的時候我們是不是更加的要全面的來做個調整跟檢討檢討什麼呢就是包括了我們包括了一些廚藝的核電廠它的設備 它的機具是不是有安全在整個環境結構絕對安全之下我們可以重新來讓有些廚藝的核電\n490376\t493718\t我們考慮一下這個名詞非核家園是沒有核能的發電 能源但非碳家園是連火力 連天然氣\n514855\t529293\t只要產生了碳都不行才叫非碳家園所以再生能源嘛再生能源要講說全部百分之百加生能源也是困難的再生能源有沒有碳是乾淨的能源嘛部長講過啊核電就是乾淨的能源啊非碳就是連火力都不能有才叫非碳\n530404\t557367\t沒有錯 可是我們現在的情況之下我們在討論納入 逐步的來做到我們也希望全部都是非碳家園 這是最好的啊但是你要看到 你未來的話百分之八十 目前百分之八十都是火力發電我們的金骰的能源 我們的發電就是火力這是我們擔心的 未來非核色的話百分之八十的火力的話 會達到非碳嗎\n558208\t584688\t不可能啊,百分之二十也沒有非碳啊百分之八十也不會是非碳,它還是有碳所以我的戰略思想是所以你沒有聽到我們產業界的聲音嗎我的想法是減碳先行,目標淨零我們從減碳發起所以未來火力發電也要降低到五十、三十以下減碳要先行嘛,未來目標還是要達到淨零那我們希望還是可以做能源備比去調整,好不好\n585228\t608346\t我們會照現在的目標前進只要一切的順序都這樣在大家的支持底下像副部長所說明年執議會跟院長部長討論這個問題就是因為台電這兩兄弟啊虧損連連都要用增資用補助的方式我們如果怎麼樣去徹底的來解決他的財務的困境這要講出辦法解決辦法所以是不是能也對比我們怎麼樣\n610108\t621586\t逐步來做到 國際因素 戰爭影響也很多那時候的虧損也很大所以你的天然氣 你的煤炭 國際的原物料跟著國際的局勢或許有波動嘛\n622836\t638720\t才會讓我們電價越來越高 讓我們的成本越來越高發電成本越來越高 是不是臺灣的原料靠外國進來的比例相當高你不要一直排斥 我就希望說我們要怎麼樣去解救這個台電跟我們的爭議一直虧損的情形開放討論跟新的核能技術來做結合\n644101\t671244\t像那大家討論的合龍河、小型核電廠我們希望能源配比要有一檔的我們的配比能夠調整這樣子我們的發電成本可以降低台電跟中油不要虧損那我們也可以穩定供電7月才能夠穩定它在我們台灣的工廠的發電產業鏈能夠順利的來運轉這才能夠保障他們不會有出軸的情形好不好這是非常重要的\n673125\t693013\t接下來我們講完這個店,這店有預告說四月份要漲店價那漲店價的情形發生,我們人民又要苦哈哈,又會影響到我們整個物價因為我們中油台店它有穩定物價的責任,所以不能一直調漲\n694073\t717503\t那所以我想請教的就是說因為我們現在學校 我們政府的政策 班班有冷氣 冷氣我們補助了但是電費啊 我們卻沒有每個學校補助 為什麼呢因為我們12年國教 應該是補助高中 國中 國小但是我們現在教育部 部長 郭部長你先請回 我們請教育部長\n718390\t733385\t麻煩請教育部長備詢因為現在的電費是國中國小有補助高中子沒有補助那你給他冷氣那電費要自己來出的話讓學生的負擔家長的經濟負擔更加的沉重甚至於\n734346\t756418\t他會用插卡式的或者錢不夠的話沒冷氣吹有冷氣沒有電就沒冷氣吹了這種情形之下我們是不是我有去查教育部的資料他說因為國中國小是義務教育所以這個是我們教育部我們政府的責任但是高中子不是義務教育那請問部長12年國教\n758673\t784585\t現在幾乎國中99%的都為了提升他們的學業都有提升都有99%都念了高中職了那高中又在12年國教是不是應該都屬於義務教育部長打一下以後收支發分改變之後我們還能補助嗎跟委員報告我們事實上在14年我們事實上各級學校我們編了將近59億的這個經費要做這個\n788449\t807564\t電匯的一個補貼但是因為另外在未來一個財化法還有我們一個統三我們現在這一個整個年度的一個預算裡邊我們事實上是沒有辦法很精準的去理解到我們教育部目前可用的一個這一個年度的一個預算做這樣一個\n808485\t823410\t補充說明那當然高中子裡面有許多來自於地方市這個各縣市市立的一個高中子他本來我知道每次跟你們講到這個你們就提到才化法我們先講制度你全部補助冷氣的學校有總共有三\n831241\t857717\t3584個學校國小有2658個學校國中有732個學校你都補助了班班有冷氣也補助了電費高中值只有194校194校的學生你就不能補助嗎而且我們用制度面來講的話12年國教高中值都有自有的一個校務基金相當程度他們都有能力能夠負擔這樣一個水電費\n859258\t884088\t就是沒有能力啊就是教育團體來跟本席反映希望我們能為他們發聲啊各位委員報告教育團體有許多的訊息他可能是不夠精準的你不能說他們不夠精準喔他們關心教育關心孩子他們是很精準的包括他們那個他們班費七百塊或是校務基金這個錢不夠所以才要請求你們協助我非常清楚\n885014\t905725\t你非常清楚,那我告訴你,請問他們的班費繳多少?他們的校務基金繳多少?校務基金是來自於他們繳的雜費所累積滾輪,留在學校你是跟委員報告,我們高中職,國立高中職現在校務基金超過一億以上的,至少有20%\n907970\t923532\t六千萬以上的有八成七成到八成委員知道這樣一個數據嗎但是我們委員很關心我非常感謝委員為學校爭取經費二十萬三十萬五十萬可是他們事實上\n923993\t950765\t校務基金就可以拿出來使用但是他們都一直非常節約我也感謝委員關心學校教育但是我們許多中小學的一個校務基金他們沒有善加使用我想這可能也是委員在未來以後可以再進一步去了解的我也請部長下鄉去去了解他們怎麼樣使用冷氣插卡\n952145\t974199\t卡片要儲值 插下去才可以用電那為什麼國中國小不用呢我們這個近鄰的一個家園這裡邊怎麼樣讓校園永續發展我想使用這個電力 能源有效能這是我們學校教育在人才培育的一個很重要的目標\n975220\t982534\t你講的我都懂 反正把事情都推走就是了議長 我想要跟你講的是制度面請問12年國教 為什麼叫12年國教\n988829\t1001020\t所以國中 高中 國小 他們的能源 他們的資源 是不是要一視同仁要不要一視同仁你教育補助費是補助國中 高中 你不補助高中嗎地方政府有責任\n1010268\t1024608\t我想地方教育局也有責任他們必須要編年度的預算來協助中小學教育的一個發展當然中央跟地方是協力的想要共同讓台灣的教育發展更好\n1025689\t1051310\t他們要 地方政府要協助他們來資源都能夠補助 讓孩子們苦我們全不能窮教育 苦不能苦了我們的孩子我們如果保護我們孩子 如果讓我們孩子資源能夠得到更好的保護 我們要做到的我跟委員的想法 態度是一致的一致的 我們一致從中央拿錢去 事情要中央來做\n1051670\t1060621\t不是所以我請院長跟部長把我的問題聽清楚我們現在是講制度面\n1062041\t1087169\t12年國教 高中 國中 國小他們的教育資源應該是一致性的不能有偏頗的你不能說高中部長就說使用者付費國小 國中不是使用者付費嗎所以不要有這種偏頗的言論我們用制度一致性的來講所以我還是請部長我們都非常了解地方的狀況每個學校的狀況這個問題 這個議題\n1089830\t1102934\t是教育團體提出來 請我們來拜他們發聲的所以回去可以研議一下 可行性嘛不要一下在這邊就擋掉了所以我們可以研議好 那既然你院長這樣講話你才換法讓地方來資助高中 是不是這樣子\n1114658\t1132054\t你是這樣子回答的嗎好 財務法下去將地方政府來補助高中的電費你的答案就這樣子不只這些 還有很多很多的像我們現在各縣市地方政府有部分它的高中值是屬於市立的\n1132594\t1153584\t那麼這個經費在當時就教育部已經全部編到播到地方去但是屬於國立的高中子當然是由國教署來負擔他們學校的營運所以我才會請問部長那屬於國教署的對不對有部分是屬於國教署的一個責任所以請部長回去研議一下不要這麼快就擋掉了因為這個是\n1160308\t1174444\t這個教育團體大家集體的連署發聲希望我們讓部長讓院長知道高中也是需要補助這一塊當然我們的有冷氣也能夠有冷氣可以吹有電可以冷氣吹好不好好 謝謝部長那接下來部長我還是在討論學校的問題\n1178809\t1202114\t那因為我們在討論學校這個學務人力不足的情況之下因為在前年的時候新北市發生殺警案那引起社會的關注就是校安的問題那根據112年在學校的校安安全的部分來分析就建議在不同學制的校安為了預防這個重點工作特別的讓我們針對各個學校\n1204935\t1224849\t他們做了一個統計學校的這個校安的通報的統計素面我們看到我統計的包括了國小 國中跟高中每個學校通報的情形在這個表上都有那我們撇開這個天災 疾病這個部分拿掉來最重要的\n1225609\t1245451\t包括兒童跟少年的保護包括家暴或者行為偏差的暴力霸凌等等事件都非常非常的多那因為高中的時候有教官有這個教官的話在學校可以來幫忙維護來做勸導輔導的工作但是國中沒有啊\n1246271\t1262264\t所以說這個柯警案的事情發生之後所以我們特別的就針對這個問題來給學校針對這個問題提出了一個叫做學務創新人力\n1263424\t1284700\t因為教官預缺不補 越來越少 人力不夠所以你們就來個學務創新人力所以這三年的時間啊 他只有補了將近918人 1210人 1550人大概大概 一個學校大概補助了大概三人這三人而已 所以部長 這人數還是不夠喔\n1285000\t1299667\t跟委員報告我進來以後事實上也感謝我們大院支持學生輔導法通過本來這就是希望說能夠有更多的一個心理輔導專業能夠來協助我們新世代的學生的一個成長\n1300447\t1317437\t那第二個就是我們也看到因為特別在國中青少年的一個發展階段裡邊他們在喜多的這些這個情緒的一個關於或者人際之間一個互動我們也知道對學校在校安事件所以院長在這個部分是非常關心所以我們才額外的編了這個雖然沒有辦法\n1325242\t1330929\t一次到位 慢慢逐步 逐步所以部長 再跟你進一步的討論國中這個學校裡面校士人力的一些補充部長 因為我們這個學務創新人力是在高中\n1340259\t1366393\t但是的話 因為這個擱淺案發生之後的話我們就要加強到國中嘛你看這個數據 國中還是需要很多人力的幫忙那國中部的話 我們增加了這個學務人力就是補助國中設置副組長這個方案那國中的補助副組長 但是有條件式的啦你要有61個班的人才可以補助1到3個副組長\n1367182\t1376792\t我想我們總體的一個教育經費怎麼樣去用到刀口上那當然希望校園友善的校園裡面你讓我把話講完因為我問題還沒問出來嘛你就不要緊張讓我把問題問出來我其實想要回應委員的是說\n1384639\t1403274\t這個友善校園的一個機制的一個建構還要包含社區家長包括警政 我們事實上就一直在努力包含怎麼樣讓社區有更多的一個對學教育部長你不要把問題講完 你怎麼回答不是我要的問題呢抱歉不是我要的答案 我還沒有把問題講出來嘛\n1405560\t1429171\t你不要占用我太多時間我的問題才問不到幾個而已我的意思是說現在我們的副組長要61班才可以增加1到3人但是你看到59班 58班 57班他們也是大學校但是沒有副組長的編制他們這麼多的班員沒有辦法只有教師要代理嗎沒有教師願意啊現在要備課\n1430291\t1456181\t所以他們沒有辦法去也不願意來參加做這個組長的工作所以用代課老師所以在這個部分的話我說你可不可以說不要一下地了這麼高標到60班以上可不可以就是說40班或者50班40班增加一個50班增加兩個60班增加三個這樣漸進式的話那你們的制度的美意就可以執行下去是不是\n1457027\t1475462\t謝謝委員的提醒的關心我想總是這個教育經費也要拜託委員未來能夠給更大力的一個支持你編制就已經是一到三人嘛那我說方法上可不可以調整一下我們會再更細緻來看怎麼樣業長你有聽懂我的意思啦業長一直點頭不要說六十班才可以一到三人因為確實有時候他的標準一切就變成\n1484909\t1498392\t這個標準以下的可能一時之間就沒有我也同意委員所講到底切到60班還是59班你的規則你的規範裡面就是要61班以上所以我才說這都是教育團體他們的聲音啦他們的意見所以我也請你把它聽進去做個討論給他們這40班50班也可以有增加這個副組長這缺\n1510898\t1513960\t謝謝委員提醒我們再來看怎麼樣也能夠對特殊狀況執行辦法會更加的\n1519335\t1546077\t讓他們可以使用到 這才是重點啦好 那我們希望孩子的安全我們來守護也請部長 院長我們一起來做這個研議讓他們可以使用到更多來維護校安人員好不好當初我們五打七安 校安也是這樣還是安全啦我們會來重新加強檢視委員會提出這個問題那謝謝齁那 部長您辛苦 您請回好了我接下來要請交通部長喔\n1547878\t1566553\t特別要提到的就是本席的區域裡面在平正龍潭在交通的環境上分別有國道1號跟國道3號它中間會經過一條66的快速道路這個就是我們南桃園最主要的公路的資幹特別有這樣子的安排交通\n1567153\t1582049\t那現在的話我們桃園鄰近的這個雙北有鐵路運輸跟公路運輸那因為有國道還有這個市內的公車運輸在對我們平正龍潭是非常重要的\n1582509\t1606784\t那就是因為有公路運輸那我們更需要的就是一個轉運站轉運站那現在呢因為我們龍潭這個地方就要來做一個轉運站因為龍潭的車子開過來的話就到台北的永林在這邊台北的永林已經有公車轉運站了我們龍潭平鎮都還沒有那我就先來講龍潭部分那龍潭的話我們要做一個整個這個\n1609205\t1626879\t整開區的話時間要比較長包括土地的徵收還有那個都市計畫都要送到內政部去審查那要請內政部快一點幫我們審查通過那但是我們也不能等待啦因為大家我們的民眾鄉親啊都在馬路邊上在等候車子是非常\n1627219\t1641455\t安全而且辛苦的所以我們就有一份的短中長期那這個短期的話我們就會用在我們龍潭的運動公園用人行道跟這個公車站這個地方做公車站的停等這個廊道\n1642196\t1657954\t那這個中期的話我們就會有一個仙島的轉運站就在這個交流道的這周邊我們仙會又租用了這個1250坪的這個用地啊來做一個仙島轉運站大概我們考慮到像八德的\n1658274\t1677749\t他們是會用這簡易的貨櫃屋的方式來做這個我們臨時的這個仙島的轉運站那目前來講的話在這個去年的時候8月份我們已經匯刊完畢了在匯刊完畢的話在去年的12月31號我們也絕標公告那現在就是\n1678409\t1702580\t土地的容許使用跟審查跟都市計畫的審議作業大概114年的7月我們拿到建造之後就可以施工115年的7月就可以完工115年的10月就可以啟用今天為什麼特別特別的來跟我們陳部長來溝通一下共車轉運站很重要如果你到我們地方去我剛剛也講了\n1703260\t1731499\t他就在路邊太陽曬著在等車子沒有一個他們專門的一個候車的地方是很危險的所以我們下短期的話就在運動公園旁邊就用現在人的候車停的地方來等待所以我們是必須要先做個先導的公車先導的這個轉運站那目前的這個經費大概要一億那我們地方政府大概也會跟我們交通部提出申請大概補助三成那這點的話部長可不可以承諾我們\n1733640\t1750031\t來補助我們 報告委員桃園確實是客運的運輸非常的重要啦所以轉運站的部分您一直在爭取這個我曉得但是我們的這個公路局的這個公共運輸永續的交通平權的計畫的預算目前有遭刪的那也有遭凍結的\n1751152\t1774084\t所以目前預算還沒有確定之前其實我們很難答應這件事情不過現在桃園市政府他可以先做計畫那並且先用桃園市政府的錢先來做那未來如果我們預算確定之後有需要的話他們來申請我們會來協助部長這個經費我剛剛練了比較多一點時間就告訴你114年今年\n1775014\t1799800\t要施工115年7月要來完工如果我們的財化法過那是明年才會有這個分配那今年的話我們今年跟你提出申請這個經費不是很高啦我說的部分其實是總預算的部分所以說你今年如果送來給你審查的話是今年就要撥啦跟財化法是沒有關係啦財化法過是明年的事情這樣可以嗎我說的是總預算\n1801500\t1819974\t我們預算還沒有確定,因為我們這筆預算有被凍結也有被刪除的所以還沒有最後確定都說會解凍啦生意分子以後就會解凍啦對,如果能解凍的話我們會願意來協助解凍的話我們去申請就可以是不是?請他們來申請好,謝謝李玉琳委員的資訊,謝謝卓院長、各部會所長的備訓\n1832049\t1832395\t接下來我們請登記\n","txt":"謝謝主席 請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢謝謝 呂委員好卓院長 我想先給你看一個表格\n就是我們去年國營事業有四大國營事業他們的營業上的虧損情形除了是台糖有盈餘57.51億以外其餘的像台電虧損了411億中油虧損了355億台水虧損了41.83億在這種情形之下財務狀況這麼困難的情況之下我們\n看到就是關係著從台電來講的話台電的虧損的情形就是因為能源配比的問題那現在2016年我們因為我們執意要非核家園的作為目標現在馬上就2026年的今年是2025九個年頭過去了\n這個虧損的情形就是一再發生也就是因為要非核加鹽所以到2026年的話我們的能源火力會50%燃煤會30%再生能源要20%的能源配比但是現在我們的再生能源的配比\n達到的目標沒有到20%只有大概11.9%而已在這種情況之下在未來我們要如何讓我們台電這個反虧為盈這個是讓我們大家都要繼續努力的但是我們看到我們就是先給他增資了2500億又給他撥補了500億的情況之下他還是有虧損那目前來講\n郭營的油電糖水四大公司\n委員列出來這個表格三家比較呈現嚴重的虧損但是虧損我們都知道原因他都會有很多的政策的目標所以這個部分請部長說明一下為何如此虧損是部長怎麼解決根本問題在哪裡報告委員我想這個因為是當初是因為補貼的這些不漲價的部分所以造成的這個虧損\n那我們會從這個財務上面我想我們會...不是補貼造成虧損部長你這個語病不是補貼造成虧損是二零一年裡要非核家園的這個目標現在二零二六年了除不我們能源配補不正確政策需要檢討調整才能解決這個問題\n報告委員我們當然是從各個方面產銷人發財行政跟這個AI的使用各方面的管理的構面下去來評估但是我們從財務面來看它是現在只是提一個財務面的改善那我們有很多的這個其他管理的手法我們也可以從產銷人發財上面\n中油現在要提出了三年三千五百億的增資你支持吧我還沒有說到他要三千五百億增資我現在問的題目是這樣子我是請問院長部長中油要提出的增資\n我們沒有收到徵友要提出增資我國營司也沒有收到這樣的一個命令他現在提出三年三千五百億現在提出來對準備要提出規劃了還沒有嘛我就請問還沒有我們要做準備如果他提出來的時候我們會審視需不需要增資這樣好\n我們講完台電講完中油就必須要跟你講一下這個台電的情形剛剛也講到這個虧損的情形那部長也講了這個撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥\n才能夠解決所以你看到這個圖表現在目前來講的話火力發電自發電力的話大概2.87如果是購入發電的話是3.46元太陽能的自發電的話是3.94還有我們太陽能的購入的話是4.87風力的話是4.40購入的話是6.59核能發電是多少成本是多少1.42\n前面這幾屆都是發電當下的成本核能的發電他有很多未來隱性的成本那個是非常非常當然當然有隱性啊人是有這個物質當然當然都有都有都要處理所以再生能源我們希望這個綠電要趕快的達標然後紓解我們未來把這個\n非核尤其是非核我們要用了核電啊今年的五月核三長就要除役哦七月份就正式到非核家園所以很多我們要講說道路非核的時候那我們的再生能源能量能夠達到我們要求的20%未來2030年的30%能夠達到嗎你能夠達到的話才能讓我們電力穩定如果電力不穩定院長 部長 企業\n他會不會出走 這是我們憂心的問題報告委員 我們會在明年這個2026年的11月我們會讓這個再生能源達到20%不是你要這樣 數字會說話你今年才到達差不多12%而已 今年到達12%而已對 我們現在完全把他這個目前的你目前的太陽能\n發電在12%裡面佔了7%你的風電的話佔了3%你明年要達到多少 您說多少我明年要達到20%20% 對在什麼發電機突飛猛進呢用什麼再生能源的發電會讓你達到這20%沒有啊 我們就是按照我們所計畫的我們希望 你計畫要達到計畫一定可以超過\n一定可以超過所以我也要請院長我們是要來做一個討論去做調整所以你要放眼看國際上大家的情勢不要每次看到核電你們就把它排除在外完全不願意把它納入去考量你看我們最鄰近的國家日本也好 韓國也好\n在於韓國它在2038年它的核電的結構它就要達到35.6%日本在2040年它核能就要達到20%包括美國它除以核電廠它要重新檢視再來運轉這就是全世界對國際能源上大家的看法\n所以美國他也說他願意協助我們對這個核電他可以協助我們去重新的來運轉那現在我們核能的管制在現行的法律底下我們5月17號要處理這個是法律的規定那法律沒有變更之前我們只能在法律的規定來做我知道院長你一定要講到法律的問題所以你要聽聽產業界的聲音所有產業界的聲音說沒有錯\n我們從非核家園可以走進非碳家園在走進非碳家園的時候我們是不是更加的要全面的來做個調整跟檢討檢討什麼呢就是包括了我們包括了一些廚藝的核電廠它的設備 它的機具是不是有安全在整個環境結構絕對安全之下我們可以重新來讓有些廚藝的核電\n我們考慮一下這個名詞非核家園是沒有核能的發電 能源但非碳家園是連火力 連天然氣\n只要產生了碳都不行才叫非碳家園所以再生能源嘛再生能源要講說全部百分之百加生能源也是困難的再生能源有沒有碳是乾淨的能源嘛部長講過啊核電就是乾淨的能源啊非碳就是連火力都不能有才叫非碳\n沒有錯 可是我們現在的情況之下我們在討論納入 逐步的來做到我們也希望全部都是非碳家園 這是最好的啊但是你要看到 你未來的話百分之八十 目前百分之八十都是火力發電我們的金骰的能源 我們的發電就是火力這是我們擔心的 未來非核色的話百分之八十的火力的話 會達到非碳嗎\n不可能啊,百分之二十也沒有非碳啊百分之八十也不會是非碳,它還是有碳所以我的戰略思想是所以你沒有聽到我們產業界的聲音嗎我的想法是減碳先行,目標淨零我們從減碳發起所以未來火力發電也要降低到五十、三十以下減碳要先行嘛,未來目標還是要達到淨零那我們希望還是可以做能源備比去調整,好不好\n我們會照現在的目標前進只要一切的順序都這樣在大家的支持底下像副部長所說明年執議會跟院長部長討論這個問題就是因為台電這兩兄弟啊虧損連連都要用增資用補助的方式我們如果怎麼樣去徹底的來解決他的財務的困境這要講出辦法解決辦法所以是不是能也對比我們怎麼樣\n逐步來做到 國際因素 戰爭影響也很多那時候的虧損也很大所以你的天然氣 你的煤炭 國際的原物料跟著國際的局勢或許有波動嘛\n才會讓我們電價越來越高 讓我們的成本越來越高發電成本越來越高 是不是臺灣的原料靠外國進來的比例相當高你不要一直排斥 我就希望說我們要怎麼樣去解救這個台電跟我們的爭議一直虧損的情形開放討論跟新的核能技術來做結合\n像那大家討論的合龍河、小型核電廠我們希望能源配比要有一檔的我們的配比能夠調整這樣子我們的發電成本可以降低台電跟中油不要虧損那我們也可以穩定供電7月才能夠穩定它在我們台灣的工廠的發電產業鏈能夠順利的來運轉這才能夠保障他們不會有出軸的情形好不好這是非常重要的\n接下來我們講完這個店,這店有預告說四月份要漲店價那漲店價的情形發生,我們人民又要苦哈哈,又會影響到我們整個物價因為我們中油台店它有穩定物價的責任,所以不能一直調漲\n那所以我想請教的就是說因為我們現在學校 我們政府的政策 班班有冷氣 冷氣我們補助了但是電費啊 我們卻沒有每個學校補助 為什麼呢因為我們12年國教 應該是補助高中 國中 國小但是我們現在教育部 部長 郭部長你先請回 我們請教育部長\n麻煩請教育部長備詢因為現在的電費是國中國小有補助高中子沒有補助那你給他冷氣那電費要自己來出的話讓學生的負擔家長的經濟負擔更加的沉重甚至於\n他會用插卡式的或者錢不夠的話沒冷氣吹有冷氣沒有電就沒冷氣吹了這種情形之下我們是不是我有去查教育部的資料他說因為國中國小是義務教育所以這個是我們教育部我們政府的責任但是高中子不是義務教育那請問部長12年國教\n現在幾乎國中99%的都為了提升他們的學業都有提升都有99%都念了高中職了那高中又在12年國教是不是應該都屬於義務教育部長打一下以後收支發分改變之後我們還能補助嗎跟委員報告我們事實上在14年我們事實上各級學校我們編了將近59億的這個經費要做這個\n電匯的一個補貼但是因為另外在未來一個財化法還有我們一個統三我們現在這一個整個年度的一個預算裡邊我們事實上是沒有辦法很精準的去理解到我們教育部目前可用的一個這一個年度的一個預算做這樣一個\n補充說明那當然高中子裡面有許多來自於地方市這個各縣市市立的一個高中子他本來我知道每次跟你們講到這個你們就提到才化法我們先講制度你全部補助冷氣的學校有總共有三\n3584個學校國小有2658個學校國中有732個學校你都補助了班班有冷氣也補助了電費高中值只有194校194校的學生你就不能補助嗎而且我們用制度面來講的話12年國教高中值都有自有的一個校務基金相當程度他們都有能力能夠負擔這樣一個水電費\n就是沒有能力啊就是教育團體來跟本席反映希望我們能為他們發聲啊各位委員報告教育團體有許多的訊息他可能是不夠精準的你不能說他們不夠精準喔他們關心教育關心孩子他們是很精準的包括他們那個他們班費七百塊或是校務基金這個錢不夠所以才要請求你們協助我非常清楚\n你非常清楚,那我告訴你,請問他們的班費繳多少?他們的校務基金繳多少?校務基金是來自於他們繳的雜費所累積滾輪,留在學校你是跟委員報告,我們高中職,國立高中職現在校務基金超過一億以上的,至少有20%\n六千萬以上的有八成七成到八成委員知道這樣一個數據嗎但是我們委員很關心我非常感謝委員為學校爭取經費二十萬三十萬五十萬可是他們事實上\n校務基金就可以拿出來使用但是他們都一直非常節約我也感謝委員關心學校教育但是我們許多中小學的一個校務基金他們沒有善加使用我想這可能也是委員在未來以後可以再進一步去了解的我也請部長下鄉去去了解他們怎麼樣使用冷氣插卡\n卡片要儲值 插下去才可以用電那為什麼國中國小不用呢我們這個近鄰的一個家園這裡邊怎麼樣讓校園永續發展我想使用這個電力 能源有效能這是我們學校教育在人才培育的一個很重要的目標\n你講的我都懂 反正把事情都推走就是了議長 我想要跟你講的是制度面請問12年國教 為什麼叫12年國教\n所以國中 高中 國小 他們的能源 他們的資源 是不是要一視同仁要不要一視同仁你教育補助費是補助國中 高中 你不補助高中嗎地方政府有責任\n我想地方教育局也有責任他們必須要編年度的預算來協助中小學教育的一個發展當然中央跟地方是協力的想要共同讓台灣的教育發展更好\n他們要 地方政府要協助他們來資源都能夠補助 讓孩子們苦我們全不能窮教育 苦不能苦了我們的孩子我們如果保護我們孩子 如果讓我們孩子資源能夠得到更好的保護 我們要做到的我跟委員的想法 態度是一致的一致的 我們一致從中央拿錢去 事情要中央來做\n不是所以我請院長跟部長把我的問題聽清楚我們現在是講制度面\n12年國教 高中 國中 國小他們的教育資源應該是一致性的不能有偏頗的你不能說高中部長就說使用者付費國小 國中不是使用者付費嗎所以不要有這種偏頗的言論我們用制度一致性的來講所以我還是請部長我們都非常了解地方的狀況每個學校的狀況這個問題 這個議題\n是教育團體提出來 請我們來拜他們發聲的所以回去可以研議一下 可行性嘛不要一下在這邊就擋掉了所以我們可以研議好 那既然你院長這樣講話你才換法讓地方來資助高中 是不是這樣子\n你是這樣子回答的嗎好 財務法下去將地方政府來補助高中的電費你的答案就這樣子不只這些 還有很多很多的像我們現在各縣市地方政府有部分它的高中值是屬於市立的\n那麼這個經費在當時就教育部已經全部編到播到地方去但是屬於國立的高中子當然是由國教署來負擔他們學校的營運所以我才會請問部長那屬於國教署的對不對有部分是屬於國教署的一個責任所以請部長回去研議一下不要這麼快就擋掉了因為這個是\n這個教育團體大家集體的連署發聲希望我們讓部長讓院長知道高中也是需要補助這一塊當然我們的有冷氣也能夠有冷氣可以吹有電可以冷氣吹好不好好 謝謝部長那接下來部長我還是在討論學校的問題\n那因為我們在討論學校這個學務人力不足的情況之下因為在前年的時候新北市發生殺警案那引起社會的關注就是校安的問題那根據112年在學校的校安安全的部分來分析就建議在不同學制的校安為了預防這個重點工作特別的讓我們針對各個學校\n他們做了一個統計學校的這個校安的通報的統計素面我們看到我統計的包括了國小 國中跟高中每個學校通報的情形在這個表上都有那我們撇開這個天災 疾病這個部分拿掉來最重要的\n包括兒童跟少年的保護包括家暴或者行為偏差的暴力霸凌等等事件都非常非常的多那因為高中的時候有教官有這個教官的話在學校可以來幫忙維護來做勸導輔導的工作但是國中沒有啊\n所以說這個柯警案的事情發生之後所以我們特別的就針對這個問題來給學校針對這個問題提出了一個叫做學務創新人力\n因為教官預缺不補 越來越少 人力不夠所以你們就來個學務創新人力所以這三年的時間啊 他只有補了將近918人 1210人 1550人大概大概 一個學校大概補助了大概三人這三人而已 所以部長 這人數還是不夠喔\n跟委員報告我進來以後事實上也感謝我們大院支持學生輔導法通過本來這就是希望說能夠有更多的一個心理輔導專業能夠來協助我們新世代的學生的一個成長\n那第二個就是我們也看到因為特別在國中青少年的一個發展階段裡邊他們在喜多的這些這個情緒的一個關於或者人際之間一個互動我們也知道對學校在校安事件所以院長在這個部分是非常關心所以我們才額外的編了這個雖然沒有辦法\n一次到位 慢慢逐步 逐步所以部長 再跟你進一步的討論國中這個學校裡面校士人力的一些補充部長 因為我們這個學務創新人力是在高中\n但是的話 因為這個擱淺案發生之後的話我們就要加強到國中嘛你看這個數據 國中還是需要很多人力的幫忙那國中部的話 我們增加了這個學務人力就是補助國中設置副組長這個方案那國中的補助副組長 但是有條件式的啦你要有61個班的人才可以補助1到3個副組長\n我想我們總體的一個教育經費怎麼樣去用到刀口上那當然希望校園友善的校園裡面你讓我把話講完因為我問題還沒問出來嘛你就不要緊張讓我把問題問出來我其實想要回應委員的是說\n這個友善校園的一個機制的一個建構還要包含社區家長包括警政 我們事實上就一直在努力包含怎麼樣讓社區有更多的一個對學教育部長你不要把問題講完 你怎麼回答不是我要的問題呢抱歉不是我要的答案 我還沒有把問題講出來嘛\n你不要占用我太多時間我的問題才問不到幾個而已我的意思是說現在我們的副組長要61班才可以增加1到3人但是你看到59班 58班 57班他們也是大學校但是沒有副組長的編制他們這麼多的班員沒有辦法只有教師要代理嗎沒有教師願意啊現在要備課\n所以他們沒有辦法去也不願意來參加做這個組長的工作所以用代課老師所以在這個部分的話我說你可不可以說不要一下地了這麼高標到60班以上可不可以就是說40班或者50班40班增加一個50班增加兩個60班增加三個這樣漸進式的話那你們的制度的美意就可以執行下去是不是\n謝謝委員的提醒的關心我想總是這個教育經費也要拜託委員未來能夠給更大力的一個支持你編制就已經是一到三人嘛那我說方法上可不可以調整一下我們會再更細緻來看怎麼樣業長你有聽懂我的意思啦業長一直點頭不要說六十班才可以一到三人因為確實有時候他的標準一切就變成\n這個標準以下的可能一時之間就沒有我也同意委員所講到底切到60班還是59班你的規則你的規範裡面就是要61班以上所以我才說這都是教育團體他們的聲音啦他們的意見所以我也請你把它聽進去做個討論給他們這40班50班也可以有增加這個副組長這缺\n謝謝委員提醒我們再來看怎麼樣也能夠對特殊狀況執行辦法會更加的\n讓他們可以使用到 這才是重點啦好 那我們希望孩子的安全我們來守護也請部長 院長我們一起來做這個研議讓他們可以使用到更多來維護校安人員好不好當初我們五打七安 校安也是這樣還是安全啦我們會來重新加強檢視委員會提出這個問題那謝謝齁那 部長您辛苦 您請回好了我接下來要請交通部長喔\n特別要提到的就是本席的區域裡面在平正龍潭在交通的環境上分別有國道1號跟國道3號它中間會經過一條66的快速道路這個就是我們南桃園最主要的公路的資幹特別有這樣子的安排交通\n那現在的話我們桃園鄰近的這個雙北有鐵路運輸跟公路運輸那因為有國道還有這個市內的公車運輸在對我們平正龍潭是非常重要的\n那就是因為有公路運輸那我們更需要的就是一個轉運站轉運站那現在呢因為我們龍潭這個地方就要來做一個轉運站因為龍潭的車子開過來的話就到台北的永林在這邊台北的永林已經有公車轉運站了我們龍潭平鎮都還沒有那我就先來講龍潭部分那龍潭的話我們要做一個整個這個\n整開區的話時間要比較長包括土地的徵收還有那個都市計畫都要送到內政部去審查那要請內政部快一點幫我們審查通過那但是我們也不能等待啦因為大家我們的民眾鄉親啊都在馬路邊上在等候車子是非常\n安全而且辛苦的所以我們就有一份的短中長期那這個短期的話我們就會用在我們龍潭的運動公園用人行道跟這個公車站這個地方做公車站的停等這個廊道\n那這個中期的話我們就會有一個仙島的轉運站就在這個交流道的這周邊我們仙會又租用了這個1250坪的這個用地啊來做一個仙島轉運站大概我們考慮到像八德的\n他們是會用這簡易的貨櫃屋的方式來做這個我們臨時的這個仙島的轉運站那目前來講的話在這個去年的時候8月份我們已經匯刊完畢了在匯刊完畢的話在去年的12月31號我們也絕標公告那現在就是\n土地的容許使用跟審查跟都市計畫的審議作業大概114年的7月我們拿到建造之後就可以施工115年的7月就可以完工115年的10月就可以啟用今天為什麼特別特別的來跟我們陳部長來溝通一下共車轉運站很重要如果你到我們地方去我剛剛也講了\n他就在路邊太陽曬著在等車子沒有一個他們專門的一個候車的地方是很危險的所以我們下短期的話就在運動公園旁邊就用現在人的候車停的地方來等待所以我們是必須要先做個先導的公車先導的這個轉運站那目前的這個經費大概要一億那我們地方政府大概也會跟我們交通部提出申請大概補助三成那這點的話部長可不可以承諾我們\n來補助我們 報告委員桃園確實是客運的運輸非常的重要啦所以轉運站的部分您一直在爭取這個我曉得但是我們的這個公路局的這個公共運輸永續的交通平權的計畫的預算目前有遭刪的那也有遭凍結的\n所以目前預算還沒有確定之前其實我們很難答應這件事情不過現在桃園市政府他可以先做計畫那並且先用桃園市政府的錢先來做那未來如果我們預算確定之後有需要的話他們來申請我們會來協助部長這個經費我剛剛練了比較多一點時間就告訴你114年今年\n要施工115年7月要來完工如果我們的財化法過那是明年才會有這個分配那今年的話我們今年跟你提出申請這個經費不是很高啦我說的部分其實是總預算的部分所以說你今年如果送來給你審查的話是今年就要撥啦跟財化法是沒有關係啦財化法過是明年的事情這樣可以嗎我說的是總預算\n我們預算還沒有確定,因為我們這筆預算有被凍結也有被刪除的所以還沒有最後確定都說會解凍啦生意分子以後就會解凍啦對,如果能解凍的話我們會願意來協助解凍的話我們去申請就可以是不是?請他們來申請好,謝謝李玉琳委員的資訊,謝謝卓院長、各部會所長的備訓\n接下來我們請登記\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.799 --> 00:07.180\n謝謝主席請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢謝謝呂委員好卓院長我想先給你看一個表格\n\n00:21.361 --> 00:36.467\n就是我們去年國營事業有四大國營事業他們的營業上的虧損情形除了是台糖有盈餘57.51億以外其餘的像台電虧損了411億中油虧損了355億台水虧損了41.83億在這種情形之下財務狀況這麼困難的情況之下我們\n\n00:47.489 --> 01:04.736\n看到就是關係著從台電來講的話台電的虧損的情形就是因為能源配比的問題那現在2016年我們因為我們執意要非核家園的作為目標現在馬上就2026年的今年是2025九個年頭過去了\n\n01:07.838 --> 01:19.030\n這個虧損的情形就是一再發生也就是因為要非核加鹽所以到2026年的話我們的能源火力會50%燃煤會30%再生能源要20%的能源配比但是現在我們的再生能源的配比\n\n01:24.677 --> 01:42.471\n達到的目標沒有到20%只有大概11.9%而已在這種情況之下在未來我們要如何讓我們台電這個反虧為盈這個是讓我們大家都要繼續努力的但是我們看到我們就是先給他增資了2500億又給他撥補了500億的情況之下他還是有虧損那目前來講\n\n01:48.596 --> 01:50.418\n郭營的油電糖水四大公司\n\n02:07.677 --> 02:28.566\n委員列出來這個表格三家比較呈現嚴重的虧損但是虧損我們都知道原因他都會有很多的政策的目標所以這個部分請部長說明一下為何如此虧損是部長怎麼解決根本問題在哪裡報告委員我想這個因為是當初是因為補貼的這些不漲價的部分所以造成的這個虧損\n\n02:30.347 --> 02:49.153\n那我們會從這個財務上面我想我們會...不是補貼造成虧損部長你這個語病不是補貼造成虧損是二零一年裡要非核家園的這個目標現在二零二六年了除不我們能源配補不正確政策需要檢討調整才能解決這個問題\n\n02:50.593 --> 03:12.503\n報告委員我們當然是從各個方面產銷人發財行政跟這個AI的使用各方面的管理的構面下去來評估但是我們從財務面來看它是現在只是提一個財務面的改善那我們有很多的這個其他管理的手法我們也可以從產銷人發財上面\n\n03:16.084 --> 03:25.398\n中油現在要提出了三年三千五百億的增資你支持吧我還沒有說到他要三千五百億增資我現在問的題目是這樣子我是請問院長部長中油要提出的增資\n\n03:32.864 --> 03:51.181\n我們沒有收到徵友要提出增資我國營司也沒有收到這樣的一個命令他現在提出三年三千五百億現在提出來對準備要提出規劃了還沒有嘛我就請問還沒有我們要做準備如果他提出來的時候我們會審視需不需要增資這樣好\n\n03:51.840 --> 03:57.782\n我們講完台電講完中油就必須要跟你講一下這個台電的情形剛剛也講到這個虧損的情形那部長也講了這個撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥\n\n04:21.249 --> 04:35.334\n才能夠解決所以你看到這個圖表現在目前來講的話火力發電自發電力的話大概2.87如果是購入發電的話是3.46元太陽能的自發電的話是3.94還有我們太陽能的購入的話是4.87風力的話是4.40購入的話是6.59核能發電是多少成本是多少1.42\n\n04:49.864 --> 05:04.411\n前面這幾屆都是發電當下的成本核能的發電他有很多未來隱性的成本那個是非常非常當然當然有隱性啊人是有這個物質當然當然都有都有都要處理所以再生能源我們希望這個綠電要趕快的達標然後紓解我們未來把這個\n\n05:12.074 --> 05:39.159\n非核尤其是非核我們要用了核電啊今年的五月核三長就要除役哦七月份就正式到非核家園所以很多我們要講說道路非核的時候那我們的再生能源能量能夠達到我們要求的20%未來2030年的30%能夠達到嗎你能夠達到的話才能讓我們電力穩定如果電力不穩定院長部長企業\n\n05:40.299 --> 06:06.020\n他會不會出走這是我們憂心的問題報告委員我們會在明年這個2026年的11月我們會讓這個再生能源達到20%不是你要這樣數字會說話你今年才到達差不多12%而已今年到達12%而已對我們現在完全把他這個目前的你目前的太陽能\n\n06:06.840 --> 06:32.929\n發電在12%裡面佔了7%你的風電的話佔了3%你明年要達到多少您說多少我明年要達到20%20%對在什麼發電機突飛猛進呢用什麼再生能源的發電會讓你達到這20%沒有啊我們就是按照我們所計畫的我們希望你計畫要達到計畫一定可以超過\n\n06:34.226 --> 06:52.538\n一定可以超過所以我也要請院長我們是要來做一個討論去做調整所以你要放眼看國際上大家的情勢不要每次看到核電你們就把它排除在外完全不願意把它納入去考量你看我們最鄰近的國家日本也好韓國也好\n\n06:53.939 --> 07:00.980\n在於韓國它在2038年它的核電的結構它就要達到35.6%日本在2040年它核能就要達到20%包括美國它除以核電廠它要重新檢視再來運轉這就是全世界對國際能源上大家的看法\n\n07:17.964 --> 07:41.946\n所以美國他也說他願意協助我們對這個核電他可以協助我們去重新的來運轉那現在我們核能的管制在現行的法律底下我們5月17號要處理這個是法律的規定那法律沒有變更之前我們只能在法律的規定來做我知道院長你一定要講到法律的問題所以你要聽聽產業界的聲音所有產業界的聲音說沒有錯\n\n07:43.908 --> 08:09.116\n我們從非核家園可以走進非碳家園在走進非碳家園的時候我們是不是更加的要全面的來做個調整跟檢討檢討什麼呢就是包括了我們包括了一些廚藝的核電廠它的設備它的機具是不是有安全在整個環境結構絕對安全之下我們可以重新來讓有些廚藝的核電\n\n08:10.376 --> 08:13.718\n我們考慮一下這個名詞非核家園是沒有核能的發電能源但非碳家園是連火力連天然氣\n\n08:34.855 --> 08:49.293\n只要產生了碳都不行才叫非碳家園所以再生能源嘛再生能源要講說全部百分之百加生能源也是困難的再生能源有沒有碳是乾淨的能源嘛部長講過啊核電就是乾淨的能源啊非碳就是連火力都不能有才叫非碳\n\n08:50.404 --> 09:17.367\n沒有錯可是我們現在的情況之下我們在討論納入逐步的來做到我們也希望全部都是非碳家園這是最好的啊但是你要看到你未來的話百分之八十目前百分之八十都是火力發電我們的金骰的能源我們的發電就是火力這是我們擔心的未來非核色的話百分之八十的火力的話會達到非碳嗎\n\n09:18.208 --> 09:44.688\n不可能啊,百分之二十也沒有非碳啊百分之八十也不會是非碳,它還是有碳所以我的戰略思想是所以你沒有聽到我們產業界的聲音嗎我的想法是減碳先行,目標淨零我們從減碳發起所以未來火力發電也要降低到五十、三十以下減碳要先行嘛,未來目標還是要達到淨零那我們希望還是可以做能源備比去調整,好不好\n\n09:45.228 --> 10:08.346\n我們會照現在的目標前進只要一切的順序都這樣在大家的支持底下像副部長所說明年執議會跟院長部長討論這個問題就是因為台電這兩兄弟啊虧損連連都要用增資用補助的方式我們如果怎麼樣去徹底的來解決他的財務的困境這要講出辦法解決辦法所以是不是能也對比我們怎麼樣\n\n10:10.108 --> 10:21.586\n逐步來做到國際因素戰爭影響也很多那時候的虧損也很大所以你的天然氣你的煤炭國際的原物料跟著國際的局勢或許有波動嘛\n\n10:22.836 --> 10:38.720\n才會讓我們電價越來越高讓我們的成本越來越高發電成本越來越高是不是臺灣的原料靠外國進來的比例相當高你不要一直排斥我就希望說我們要怎麼樣去解救這個台電跟我們的爭議一直虧損的情形開放討論跟新的核能技術來做結合\n\n10:44.101 --> 11:11.244\n像那大家討論的合龍河、小型核電廠我們希望能源配比要有一檔的我們的配比能夠調整這樣子我們的發電成本可以降低台電跟中油不要虧損那我們也可以穩定供電7月才能夠穩定它在我們台灣的工廠的發電產業鏈能夠順利的來運轉這才能夠保障他們不會有出軸的情形好不好這是非常重要的\n\n11:13.125 --> 11:33.013\n接下來我們講完這個店,這店有預告說四月份要漲店價那漲店價的情形發生,我們人民又要苦哈哈,又會影響到我們整個物價因為我們中油台店它有穩定物價的責任,所以不能一直調漲\n\n11:34.073 --> 11:57.503\n那所以我想請教的就是說因為我們現在學校我們政府的政策班班有冷氣冷氣我們補助了但是電費啊我們卻沒有每個學校補助為什麼呢因為我們12年國教應該是補助高中國中國小但是我們現在教育部部長郭部長你先請回我們請教育部長\n\n11:58.390 --> 12:13.385\n麻煩請教育部長備詢因為現在的電費是國中國小有補助高中子沒有補助那你給他冷氣那電費要自己來出的話讓學生的負擔家長的經濟負擔更加的沉重甚至於\n\n12:14.346 --> 12:36.418\n他會用插卡式的或者錢不夠的話沒冷氣吹有冷氣沒有電就沒冷氣吹了這種情形之下我們是不是我有去查教育部的資料他說因為國中國小是義務教育所以這個是我們教育部我們政府的責任但是高中子不是義務教育那請問部長12年國教\n\n12:38.673 --> 13:04.585\n現在幾乎國中99%的都為了提升他們的學業都有提升都有99%都念了高中職了那高中又在12年國教是不是應該都屬於義務教育部長打一下以後收支發分改變之後我們還能補助嗎跟委員報告我們事實上在14年我們事實上各級學校我們編了將近59億的這個經費要做這個\n\n13:08.449 --> 13:27.564\n電匯的一個補貼但是因為另外在未來一個財化法還有我們一個統三我們現在這一個整個年度的一個預算裡邊我們事實上是沒有辦法很精準的去理解到我們教育部目前可用的一個這一個年度的一個預算做這樣一個\n\n13:28.485 --> 13:43.410\n補充說明那當然高中子裡面有許多來自於地方市這個各縣市市立的一個高中子他本來我知道每次跟你們講到這個你們就提到才化法我們先講制度你全部補助冷氣的學校有總共有三\n\n13:51.241 --> 14:17.717\n3584個學校國小有2658個學校國中有732個學校你都補助了班班有冷氣也補助了電費高中值只有194校194校的學生你就不能補助嗎而且我們用制度面來講的話12年國教高中值都有自有的一個校務基金相當程度他們都有能力能夠負擔這樣一個水電費\n\n14:19.258 --> 14:44.088\n就是沒有能力啊就是教育團體來跟本席反映希望我們能為他們發聲啊各位委員報告教育團體有許多的訊息他可能是不夠精準的你不能說他們不夠精準喔他們關心教育關心孩子他們是很精準的包括他們那個他們班費七百塊或是校務基金這個錢不夠所以才要請求你們協助我非常清楚\n\n14:45.014 --> 15:05.725\n你非常清楚,那我告訴你,請問他們的班費繳多少?他們的校務基金繳多少?校務基金是來自於他們繳的雜費所累積滾輪,留在學校你是跟委員報告,我們高中職,國立高中職現在校務基金超過一億以上的,至少有20%\n\n15:07.970 --> 15:23.532\n六千萬以上的有八成七成到八成委員知道這樣一個數據嗎但是我們委員很關心我非常感謝委員為學校爭取經費二十萬三十萬五十萬可是他們事實上\n\n15:23.993 --> 15:50.765\n校務基金就可以拿出來使用但是他們都一直非常節約我也感謝委員關心學校教育但是我們許多中小學的一個校務基金他們沒有善加使用我想這可能也是委員在未來以後可以再進一步去了解的我也請部長下鄉去去了解他們怎麼樣使用冷氣插卡\n\n15:52.145 --> 16:14.199\n卡片要儲值插下去才可以用電那為什麼國中國小不用呢我們這個近鄰的一個家園這裡邊怎麼樣讓校園永續發展我想使用這個電力能源有效能這是我們學校教育在人才培育的一個很重要的目標\n\n16:15.220 --> 16:22.534\n你講的我都懂反正把事情都推走就是了議長我想要跟你講的是制度面請問12年國教為什麼叫12年國教\n\n16:28.829 --> 16:41.020\n所以國中高中國小他們的能源他們的資源是不是要一視同仁要不要一視同仁你教育補助費是補助國中高中你不補助高中嗎地方政府有責任\n\n16:50.268 --> 17:04.608\n我想地方教育局也有責任他們必須要編年度的預算來協助中小學教育的一個發展當然中央跟地方是協力的想要共同讓台灣的教育發展更好\n\n17:05.689 --> 17:31.310\n他們要地方政府要協助他們來資源都能夠補助讓孩子們苦我們全不能窮教育苦不能苦了我們的孩子我們如果保護我們孩子如果讓我們孩子資源能夠得到更好的保護我們要做到的我跟委員的想法態度是一致的一致的我們一致從中央拿錢去事情要中央來做\n\n17:31.670 --> 17:40.621\n不是所以我請院長跟部長把我的問題聽清楚我們現在是講制度面\n\n17:42.041 --> 18:07.169\n12年國教高中國中國小他們的教育資源應該是一致性的不能有偏頗的你不能說高中部長就說使用者付費國小國中不是使用者付費嗎所以不要有這種偏頗的言論我們用制度一致性的來講所以我還是請部長我們都非常了解地方的狀況每個學校的狀況這個問題這個議題\n\n18:09.830 --> 18:22.934\n是教育團體提出來請我們來拜他們發聲的所以回去可以研議一下可行性嘛不要一下在這邊就擋掉了所以我們可以研議好那既然你院長這樣講話你才換法讓地方來資助高中是不是這樣子\n\n18:34.658 --> 18:52.054\n你是這樣子回答的嗎好財務法下去將地方政府來補助高中的電費你的答案就這樣子不只這些還有很多很多的像我們現在各縣市地方政府有部分它的高中值是屬於市立的\n\n18:52.594 --> 19:13.584\n那麼這個經費在當時就教育部已經全部編到播到地方去但是屬於國立的高中子當然是由國教署來負擔他們學校的營運所以我才會請問部長那屬於國教署的對不對有部分是屬於國教署的一個責任所以請部長回去研議一下不要這麼快就擋掉了因為這個是\n\n19:20.308 --> 19:34.444\n這個教育團體大家集體的連署發聲希望我們讓部長讓院長知道高中也是需要補助這一塊當然我們的有冷氣也能夠有冷氣可以吹有電可以冷氣吹好不好好謝謝部長那接下來部長我還是在討論學校的問題\n\n19:38.809 --> 20:02.114\n那因為我們在討論學校這個學務人力不足的情況之下因為在前年的時候新北市發生殺警案那引起社會的關注就是校安的問題那根據112年在學校的校安安全的部分來分析就建議在不同學制的校安為了預防這個重點工作特別的讓我們針對各個學校\n\n20:04.935 --> 20:24.849\n他們做了一個統計學校的這個校安的通報的統計素面我們看到我統計的包括了國小國中跟高中每個學校通報的情形在這個表上都有那我們撇開這個天災疾病這個部分拿掉來最重要的\n\n20:25.609 --> 20:45.451\n包括兒童跟少年的保護包括家暴或者行為偏差的暴力霸凌等等事件都非常非常的多那因為高中的時候有教官有這個教官的話在學校可以來幫忙維護來做勸導輔導的工作但是國中沒有啊\n\n20:46.271 --> 21:02.264\n所以說這個柯警案的事情發生之後所以我們特別的就針對這個問題來給學校針對這個問題提出了一個叫做學務創新人力\n\n21:03.424 --> 21:24.700\n因為教官預缺不補越來越少人力不夠所以你們就來個學務創新人力所以這三年的時間啊他只有補了將近918人1210人1550人大概大概一個學校大概補助了大概三人這三人而已所以部長這人數還是不夠喔\n\n21:25.000 --> 21:39.667\n跟委員報告我進來以後事實上也感謝我們大院支持學生輔導法通過本來這就是希望說能夠有更多的一個心理輔導專業能夠來協助我們新世代的學生的一個成長\n\n21:40.447 --> 21:57.437\n那第二個就是我們也看到因為特別在國中青少年的一個發展階段裡邊他們在喜多的這些這個情緒的一個關於或者人際之間一個互動我們也知道對學校在校安事件所以院長在這個部分是非常關心所以我們才額外的編了這個雖然沒有辦法\n\n22:05.242 --> 22:10.929\n一次到位慢慢逐步逐步所以部長再跟你進一步的討論國中這個學校裡面校士人力的一些補充部長因為我們這個學務創新人力是在高中\n\n22:20.259 --> 22:46.393\n但是的話因為這個擱淺案發生之後的話我們就要加強到國中嘛你看這個數據國中還是需要很多人力的幫忙那國中部的話我們增加了這個學務人力就是補助國中設置副組長這個方案那國中的補助副組長但是有條件式的啦你要有61個班的人才可以補助1到3個副組長\n\n22:47.182 --> 22:56.792\n我想我們總體的一個教育經費怎麼樣去用到刀口上那當然希望校園友善的校園裡面你讓我把話講完因為我問題還沒問出來嘛你就不要緊張讓我把問題問出來我其實想要回應委員的是說\n\n23:04.639 --> 23:23.274\n這個友善校園的一個機制的一個建構還要包含社區家長包括警政我們事實上就一直在努力包含怎麼樣讓社區有更多的一個對學教育部長你不要把問題講完你怎麼回答不是我要的問題呢抱歉不是我要的答案我還沒有把問題講出來嘛\n\n23:25.560 --> 23:49.171\n你不要占用我太多時間我的問題才問不到幾個而已我的意思是說現在我們的副組長要61班才可以增加1到3人但是你看到59班58班57班他們也是大學校但是沒有副組長的編制他們這麼多的班員沒有辦法只有教師要代理嗎沒有教師願意啊現在要備課\n\n23:50.291 --> 24:16.181\n所以他們沒有辦法去也不願意來參加做這個組長的工作所以用代課老師所以在這個部分的話我說你可不可以說不要一下地了這麼高標到60班以上可不可以就是說40班或者50班40班增加一個50班增加兩個60班增加三個這樣漸進式的話那你們的制度的美意就可以執行下去是不是\n\n24:17.027 --> 24:35.462\n謝謝委員的提醒的關心我想總是這個教育經費也要拜託委員未來能夠給更大力的一個支持你編制就已經是一到三人嘛那我說方法上可不可以調整一下我們會再更細緻來看怎麼樣業長你有聽懂我的意思啦業長一直點頭不要說六十班才可以一到三人因為確實有時候他的標準一切就變成\n\n24:44.909 --> 24:58.392\n這個標準以下的可能一時之間就沒有我也同意委員所講到底切到60班還是59班你的規則你的規範裡面就是要61班以上所以我才說這都是教育團體他們的聲音啦他們的意見所以我也請你把它聽進去做個討論給他們這40班50班也可以有增加這個副組長這缺\n\n25:10.898 --> 25:13.960\n謝謝委員提醒我們再來看怎麼樣也能夠對特殊狀況執行辦法會更加的\n\n25:19.335 --> 25:46.077\n讓他們可以使用到這才是重點啦好那我們希望孩子的安全我們來守護也請部長院長我們一起來做這個研議讓他們可以使用到更多來維護校安人員好不好當初我們五打七安校安也是這樣還是安全啦我們會來重新加強檢視委員會提出這個問題那謝謝齁那部長您辛苦您請回好了我接下來要請交通部長喔\n\n25:47.878 --> 26:06.553\n特別要提到的就是本席的區域裡面在平正龍潭在交通的環境上分別有國道1號跟國道3號它中間會經過一條66的快速道路這個就是我們南桃園最主要的公路的資幹特別有這樣子的安排交通\n\n26:07.153 --> 26:22.049\n那現在的話我們桃園鄰近的這個雙北有鐵路運輸跟公路運輸那因為有國道還有這個市內的公車運輸在對我們平正龍潭是非常重要的\n\n26:22.509 --> 26:46.784\n那就是因為有公路運輸那我們更需要的就是一個轉運站轉運站那現在呢因為我們龍潭這個地方就要來做一個轉運站因為龍潭的車子開過來的話就到台北的永林在這邊台北的永林已經有公車轉運站了我們龍潭平鎮都還沒有那我就先來講龍潭部分那龍潭的話我們要做一個整個這個\n\n26:49.205 --> 27:06.879\n整開區的話時間要比較長包括土地的徵收還有那個都市計畫都要送到內政部去審查那要請內政部快一點幫我們審查通過那但是我們也不能等待啦因為大家我們的民眾鄉親啊都在馬路邊上在等候車子是非常\n\n27:07.219 --> 27:21.455\n安全而且辛苦的所以我們就有一份的短中長期那這個短期的話我們就會用在我們龍潭的運動公園用人行道跟這個公車站這個地方做公車站的停等這個廊道\n\n27:22.196 --> 27:37.954\n那這個中期的話我們就會有一個仙島的轉運站就在這個交流道的這周邊我們仙會又租用了這個1250坪的這個用地啊來做一個仙島轉運站大概我們考慮到像八德的\n\n27:38.274 --> 27:57.749\n他們是會用這簡易的貨櫃屋的方式來做這個我們臨時的這個仙島的轉運站那目前來講的話在這個去年的時候8月份我們已經匯刊完畢了在匯刊完畢的話在去年的12月31號我們也絕標公告那現在就是\n\n27:58.409 --> 28:22.580\n土地的容許使用跟審查跟都市計畫的審議作業大概114年的7月我們拿到建造之後就可以施工115年的7月就可以完工115年的10月就可以啟用今天為什麼特別特別的來跟我們陳部長來溝通一下共車轉運站很重要如果你到我們地方去我剛剛也講了\n\n28:23.260 --> 28:51.499\n他就在路邊太陽曬著在等車子沒有一個他們專門的一個候車的地方是很危險的所以我們下短期的話就在運動公園旁邊就用現在人的候車停的地方來等待所以我們是必須要先做個先導的公車先導的這個轉運站那目前的這個經費大概要一億那我們地方政府大概也會跟我們交通部提出申請大概補助三成那這點的話部長可不可以承諾我們\n\n28:53.640 --> 29:10.031\n來補助我們報告委員桃園確實是客運的運輸非常的重要啦所以轉運站的部分您一直在爭取這個我曉得但是我們的這個公路局的這個公共運輸永續的交通平權的計畫的預算目前有遭刪的那也有遭凍結的\n\n29:11.152 --> 29:34.084\n所以目前預算還沒有確定之前其實我們很難答應這件事情不過現在桃園市政府他可以先做計畫那並且先用桃園市政府的錢先來做那未來如果我們預算確定之後有需要的話他們來申請我們會來協助部長這個經費我剛剛練了比較多一點時間就告訴你114年今年\n\n29:35.014 --> 29:59.800\n要施工115年7月要來完工如果我們的財化法過那是明年才會有這個分配那今年的話我們今年跟你提出申請這個經費不是很高啦我說的部分其實是總預算的部分所以說你今年如果送來給你審查的話是今年就要撥啦跟財化法是沒有關係啦財化法過是明年的事情這樣可以嗎我說的是總預算\n\n30:01.500 --> 30:19.974\n我們預算還沒有確定,因為我們這筆預算有被凍結也有被刪除的所以還沒有最後確定都說會解凍啦生意分子以後就會解凍啦對,如果能解凍的話我們會願意來協助解凍的話我們去申請就可以是不是?請他們來申請好,謝謝李玉琳委員的資訊,謝謝卓院長、各部會所長的備訓\n\n30:32.049 --> 30:32.395\n接下來我們請登記\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.799,"end":7.18,"text":"謝謝主席 請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢謝謝 呂委員好卓院長 我想先給你看一個表格"},{"start":21.361,"end":36.467,"text":"就是我們去年國營事業有四大國營事業他們的營業上的虧損情形除了是台糖有盈餘57.51億以外其餘的像台電虧損了411億中油虧損了355億台水虧損了41.83億在這種情形之下財務狀況這麼困難的情況之下我們"},{"start":47.489,"end":64.736,"text":"看到就是關係著從台電來講的話台電的虧損的情形就是因為能源配比的問題那現在2016年我們因為我們執意要非核家園的作為目標現在馬上就2026年的今年是2025九個年頭過去了"},{"start":67.838,"end":79.03,"text":"這個虧損的情形就是一再發生也就是因為要非核加鹽所以到2026年的話我們的能源火力會50%燃煤會30%再生能源要20%的能源配比但是現在我們的再生能源的配比"},{"start":84.677,"end":102.471,"text":"達到的目標沒有到20%只有大概11.9%而已在這種情況之下在未來我們要如何讓我們台電這個反虧為盈這個是讓我們大家都要繼續努力的但是我們看到我們就是先給他增資了2500億又給他撥補了500億的情況之下他還是有虧損那目前來講"},{"start":108.596,"end":110.418,"text":"郭營的油電糖水四大公司"},{"start":127.677,"end":148.566,"text":"委員列出來這個表格三家比較呈現嚴重的虧損但是虧損我們都知道原因他都會有很多的政策的目標所以這個部分請部長說明一下為何如此虧損是部長怎麼解決根本問題在哪裡報告委員我想這個因為是當初是因為補貼的這些不漲價的部分所以造成的這個虧損"},{"start":150.347,"end":169.153,"text":"那我們會從這個財務上面我想我們會...不是補貼造成虧損部長你這個語病不是補貼造成虧損是二零一年裡要非核家園的這個目標現在二零二六年了除不我們能源配補不正確政策需要檢討調整才能解決這個問題"},{"start":170.593,"end":192.503,"text":"報告委員我們當然是從各個方面產銷人發財行政跟這個AI的使用各方面的管理的構面下去來評估但是我們從財務面來看它是現在只是提一個財務面的改善那我們有很多的這個其他管理的手法我們也可以從產銷人發財上面"},{"start":196.084,"end":205.398,"text":"中油現在要提出了三年三千五百億的增資你支持吧我還沒有說到他要三千五百億增資我現在問的題目是這樣子我是請問院長部長中油要提出的增資"},{"start":212.864,"end":231.181,"text":"我們沒有收到徵友要提出增資我國營司也沒有收到這樣的一個命令他現在提出三年三千五百億現在提出來對準備要提出規劃了還沒有嘛我就請問還沒有我們要做準備如果他提出來的時候我們會審視需不需要增資這樣好"},{"start":231.84,"end":237.782,"text":"我們講完台電講完中油就必須要跟你講一下這個台電的情形剛剛也講到這個虧損的情形那部長也講了這個撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥撥"},{"start":261.249,"end":275.334,"text":"才能夠解決所以你看到這個圖表現在目前來講的話火力發電自發電力的話大概2.87如果是購入發電的話是3.46元太陽能的自發電的話是3.94還有我們太陽能的購入的話是4.87風力的話是4.40購入的話是6.59核能發電是多少成本是多少1.42"},{"start":289.864,"end":304.411,"text":"前面這幾屆都是發電當下的成本核能的發電他有很多未來隱性的成本那個是非常非常當然當然有隱性啊人是有這個物質當然當然都有都有都要處理所以再生能源我們希望這個綠電要趕快的達標然後紓解我們未來把這個"},{"start":312.074,"end":339.159,"text":"非核尤其是非核我們要用了核電啊今年的五月核三長就要除役哦七月份就正式到非核家園所以很多我們要講說道路非核的時候那我們的再生能源能量能夠達到我們要求的20%未來2030年的30%能夠達到嗎你能夠達到的話才能讓我們電力穩定如果電力不穩定院長 部長 企業"},{"start":340.299,"end":366.02,"text":"他會不會出走 這是我們憂心的問題報告委員 我們會在明年這個2026年的11月我們會讓這個再生能源達到20%不是你要這樣 數字會說話你今年才到達差不多12%而已 今年到達12%而已對 我們現在完全把他這個目前的你目前的太陽能"},{"start":366.84,"end":392.929,"text":"發電在12%裡面佔了7%你的風電的話佔了3%你明年要達到多少 您說多少我明年要達到20%20% 對在什麼發電機突飛猛進呢用什麼再生能源的發電會讓你達到這20%沒有啊 我們就是按照我們所計畫的我們希望 你計畫要達到計畫一定可以超過"},{"start":394.226,"end":412.538,"text":"一定可以超過所以我也要請院長我們是要來做一個討論去做調整所以你要放眼看國際上大家的情勢不要每次看到核電你們就把它排除在外完全不願意把它納入去考量你看我們最鄰近的國家日本也好 韓國也好"},{"start":413.939,"end":420.98,"text":"在於韓國它在2038年它的核電的結構它就要達到35.6%日本在2040年它核能就要達到20%包括美國它除以核電廠它要重新檢視再來運轉這就是全世界對國際能源上大家的看法"},{"start":437.964,"end":461.946,"text":"所以美國他也說他願意協助我們對這個核電他可以協助我們去重新的來運轉那現在我們核能的管制在現行的法律底下我們5月17號要處理這個是法律的規定那法律沒有變更之前我們只能在法律的規定來做我知道院長你一定要講到法律的問題所以你要聽聽產業界的聲音所有產業界的聲音說沒有錯"},{"start":463.908,"end":489.116,"text":"我們從非核家園可以走進非碳家園在走進非碳家園的時候我們是不是更加的要全面的來做個調整跟檢討檢討什麼呢就是包括了我們包括了一些廚藝的核電廠它的設備 它的機具是不是有安全在整個環境結構絕對安全之下我們可以重新來讓有些廚藝的核電"},{"start":490.376,"end":493.718,"text":"我們考慮一下這個名詞非核家園是沒有核能的發電 能源但非碳家園是連火力 連天然氣"},{"start":514.855,"end":529.293,"text":"只要產生了碳都不行才叫非碳家園所以再生能源嘛再生能源要講說全部百分之百加生能源也是困難的再生能源有沒有碳是乾淨的能源嘛部長講過啊核電就是乾淨的能源啊非碳就是連火力都不能有才叫非碳"},{"start":530.404,"end":557.367,"text":"沒有錯 可是我們現在的情況之下我們在討論納入 逐步的來做到我們也希望全部都是非碳家園 這是最好的啊但是你要看到 你未來的話百分之八十 目前百分之八十都是火力發電我們的金骰的能源 我們的發電就是火力這是我們擔心的 未來非核色的話百分之八十的火力的話 會達到非碳嗎"},{"start":558.208,"end":584.688,"text":"不可能啊,百分之二十也沒有非碳啊百分之八十也不會是非碳,它還是有碳所以我的戰略思想是所以你沒有聽到我們產業界的聲音嗎我的想法是減碳先行,目標淨零我們從減碳發起所以未來火力發電也要降低到五十、三十以下減碳要先行嘛,未來目標還是要達到淨零那我們希望還是可以做能源備比去調整,好不好"},{"start":585.228,"end":608.346,"text":"我們會照現在的目標前進只要一切的順序都這樣在大家的支持底下像副部長所說明年執議會跟院長部長討論這個問題就是因為台電這兩兄弟啊虧損連連都要用增資用補助的方式我們如果怎麼樣去徹底的來解決他的財務的困境這要講出辦法解決辦法所以是不是能也對比我們怎麼樣"},{"start":610.108,"end":621.586,"text":"逐步來做到 國際因素 戰爭影響也很多那時候的虧損也很大所以你的天然氣 你的煤炭 國際的原物料跟著國際的局勢或許有波動嘛"},{"start":622.836,"end":638.72,"text":"才會讓我們電價越來越高 讓我們的成本越來越高發電成本越來越高 是不是臺灣的原料靠外國進來的比例相當高你不要一直排斥 我就希望說我們要怎麼樣去解救這個台電跟我們的爭議一直虧損的情形開放討論跟新的核能技術來做結合"},{"start":644.101,"end":671.244,"text":"像那大家討論的合龍河、小型核電廠我們希望能源配比要有一檔的我們的配比能夠調整這樣子我們的發電成本可以降低台電跟中油不要虧損那我們也可以穩定供電7月才能夠穩定它在我們台灣的工廠的發電產業鏈能夠順利的來運轉這才能夠保障他們不會有出軸的情形好不好這是非常重要的"},{"start":673.125,"end":693.013,"text":"接下來我們講完這個店,這店有預告說四月份要漲店價那漲店價的情形發生,我們人民又要苦哈哈,又會影響到我們整個物價因為我們中油台店它有穩定物價的責任,所以不能一直調漲"},{"start":694.073,"end":717.503,"text":"那所以我想請教的就是說因為我們現在學校 我們政府的政策 班班有冷氣 冷氣我們補助了但是電費啊 我們卻沒有每個學校補助 為什麼呢因為我們12年國教 應該是補助高中 國中 國小但是我們現在教育部 部長 郭部長你先請回 我們請教育部長"},{"start":718.39,"end":733.385,"text":"麻煩請教育部長備詢因為現在的電費是國中國小有補助高中子沒有補助那你給他冷氣那電費要自己來出的話讓學生的負擔家長的經濟負擔更加的沉重甚至於"},{"start":734.346,"end":756.418,"text":"他會用插卡式的或者錢不夠的話沒冷氣吹有冷氣沒有電就沒冷氣吹了這種情形之下我們是不是我有去查教育部的資料他說因為國中國小是義務教育所以這個是我們教育部我們政府的責任但是高中子不是義務教育那請問部長12年國教"},{"start":758.673,"end":784.585,"text":"現在幾乎國中99%的都為了提升他們的學業都有提升都有99%都念了高中職了那高中又在12年國教是不是應該都屬於義務教育部長打一下以後收支發分改變之後我們還能補助嗎跟委員報告我們事實上在14年我們事實上各級學校我們編了將近59億的這個經費要做這個"},{"start":788.449,"end":807.564,"text":"電匯的一個補貼但是因為另外在未來一個財化法還有我們一個統三我們現在這一個整個年度的一個預算裡邊我們事實上是沒有辦法很精準的去理解到我們教育部目前可用的一個這一個年度的一個預算做這樣一個"},{"start":808.485,"end":823.41,"text":"補充說明那當然高中子裡面有許多來自於地方市這個各縣市市立的一個高中子他本來我知道每次跟你們講到這個你們就提到才化法我們先講制度你全部補助冷氣的學校有總共有三"},{"start":831.241,"end":857.717,"text":"3584個學校國小有2658個學校國中有732個學校你都補助了班班有冷氣也補助了電費高中值只有194校194校的學生你就不能補助嗎而且我們用制度面來講的話12年國教高中值都有自有的一個校務基金相當程度他們都有能力能夠負擔這樣一個水電費"},{"start":859.258,"end":884.088,"text":"就是沒有能力啊就是教育團體來跟本席反映希望我們能為他們發聲啊各位委員報告教育團體有許多的訊息他可能是不夠精準的你不能說他們不夠精準喔他們關心教育關心孩子他們是很精準的包括他們那個他們班費七百塊或是校務基金這個錢不夠所以才要請求你們協助我非常清楚"},{"start":885.014,"end":905.725,"text":"你非常清楚,那我告訴你,請問他們的班費繳多少?他們的校務基金繳多少?校務基金是來自於他們繳的雜費所累積滾輪,留在學校你是跟委員報告,我們高中職,國立高中職現在校務基金超過一億以上的,至少有20%"},{"start":907.97,"end":923.532,"text":"六千萬以上的有八成七成到八成委員知道這樣一個數據嗎但是我們委員很關心我非常感謝委員為學校爭取經費二十萬三十萬五十萬可是他們事實上"},{"start":923.993,"end":950.765,"text":"校務基金就可以拿出來使用但是他們都一直非常節約我也感謝委員關心學校教育但是我們許多中小學的一個校務基金他們沒有善加使用我想這可能也是委員在未來以後可以再進一步去了解的我也請部長下鄉去去了解他們怎麼樣使用冷氣插卡"},{"start":952.145,"end":974.199,"text":"卡片要儲值 插下去才可以用電那為什麼國中國小不用呢我們這個近鄰的一個家園這裡邊怎麼樣讓校園永續發展我想使用這個電力 能源有效能這是我們學校教育在人才培育的一個很重要的目標"},{"start":975.22,"end":982.534,"text":"你講的我都懂 反正把事情都推走就是了議長 我想要跟你講的是制度面請問12年國教 為什麼叫12年國教"},{"start":988.829,"end":1001.02,"text":"所以國中 高中 國小 他們的能源 他們的資源 是不是要一視同仁要不要一視同仁你教育補助費是補助國中 高中 你不補助高中嗎地方政府有責任"},{"start":1010.268,"end":1024.608,"text":"我想地方教育局也有責任他們必須要編年度的預算來協助中小學教育的一個發展當然中央跟地方是協力的想要共同讓台灣的教育發展更好"},{"start":1025.689,"end":1051.31,"text":"他們要 地方政府要協助他們來資源都能夠補助 讓孩子們苦我們全不能窮教育 苦不能苦了我們的孩子我們如果保護我們孩子 如果讓我們孩子資源能夠得到更好的保護 我們要做到的我跟委員的想法 態度是一致的一致的 我們一致從中央拿錢去 事情要中央來做"},{"start":1051.67,"end":1060.621,"text":"不是所以我請院長跟部長把我的問題聽清楚我們現在是講制度面"},{"start":1062.041,"end":1087.169,"text":"12年國教 高中 國中 國小他們的教育資源應該是一致性的不能有偏頗的你不能說高中部長就說使用者付費國小 國中不是使用者付費嗎所以不要有這種偏頗的言論我們用制度一致性的來講所以我還是請部長我們都非常了解地方的狀況每個學校的狀況這個問題 這個議題"},{"start":1089.83,"end":1102.934,"text":"是教育團體提出來 請我們來拜他們發聲的所以回去可以研議一下 可行性嘛不要一下在這邊就擋掉了所以我們可以研議好 那既然你院長這樣講話你才換法讓地方來資助高中 是不是這樣子"},{"start":1114.658,"end":1132.054,"text":"你是這樣子回答的嗎好 財務法下去將地方政府來補助高中的電費你的答案就這樣子不只這些 還有很多很多的像我們現在各縣市地方政府有部分它的高中值是屬於市立的"},{"start":1132.594,"end":1153.584,"text":"那麼這個經費在當時就教育部已經全部編到播到地方去但是屬於國立的高中子當然是由國教署來負擔他們學校的營運所以我才會請問部長那屬於國教署的對不對有部分是屬於國教署的一個責任所以請部長回去研議一下不要這麼快就擋掉了因為這個是"},{"start":1160.308,"end":1174.444,"text":"這個教育團體大家集體的連署發聲希望我們讓部長讓院長知道高中也是需要補助這一塊當然我們的有冷氣也能夠有冷氣可以吹有電可以冷氣吹好不好好 謝謝部長那接下來部長我還是在討論學校的問題"},{"start":1178.809,"end":1202.114,"text":"那因為我們在討論學校這個學務人力不足的情況之下因為在前年的時候新北市發生殺警案那引起社會的關注就是校安的問題那根據112年在學校的校安安全的部分來分析就建議在不同學制的校安為了預防這個重點工作特別的讓我們針對各個學校"},{"start":1204.935,"end":1224.849,"text":"他們做了一個統計學校的這個校安的通報的統計素面我們看到我統計的包括了國小 國中跟高中每個學校通報的情形在這個表上都有那我們撇開這個天災 疾病這個部分拿掉來最重要的"},{"start":1225.609,"end":1245.451,"text":"包括兒童跟少年的保護包括家暴或者行為偏差的暴力霸凌等等事件都非常非常的多那因為高中的時候有教官有這個教官的話在學校可以來幫忙維護來做勸導輔導的工作但是國中沒有啊"},{"start":1246.271,"end":1262.264,"text":"所以說這個柯警案的事情發生之後所以我們特別的就針對這個問題來給學校針對這個問題提出了一個叫做學務創新人力"},{"start":1263.424,"end":1284.7,"text":"因為教官預缺不補 越來越少 人力不夠所以你們就來個學務創新人力所以這三年的時間啊 他只有補了將近918人 1210人 1550人大概大概 一個學校大概補助了大概三人這三人而已 所以部長 這人數還是不夠喔"},{"start":1285,"end":1299.667,"text":"跟委員報告我進來以後事實上也感謝我們大院支持學生輔導法通過本來這就是希望說能夠有更多的一個心理輔導專業能夠來協助我們新世代的學生的一個成長"},{"start":1300.447,"end":1317.437,"text":"那第二個就是我們也看到因為特別在國中青少年的一個發展階段裡邊他們在喜多的這些這個情緒的一個關於或者人際之間一個互動我們也知道對學校在校安事件所以院長在這個部分是非常關心所以我們才額外的編了這個雖然沒有辦法"},{"start":1325.242,"end":1330.929,"text":"一次到位 慢慢逐步 逐步所以部長 再跟你進一步的討論國中這個學校裡面校士人力的一些補充部長 因為我們這個學務創新人力是在高中"},{"start":1340.259,"end":1366.393,"text":"但是的話 因為這個擱淺案發生之後的話我們就要加強到國中嘛你看這個數據 國中還是需要很多人力的幫忙那國中部的話 我們增加了這個學務人力就是補助國中設置副組長這個方案那國中的補助副組長 但是有條件式的啦你要有61個班的人才可以補助1到3個副組長"},{"start":1367.182,"end":1376.792,"text":"我想我們總體的一個教育經費怎麼樣去用到刀口上那當然希望校園友善的校園裡面你讓我把話講完因為我問題還沒問出來嘛你就不要緊張讓我把問題問出來我其實想要回應委員的是說"},{"start":1384.639,"end":1403.274,"text":"這個友善校園的一個機制的一個建構還要包含社區家長包括警政 我們事實上就一直在努力包含怎麼樣讓社區有更多的一個對學教育部長你不要把問題講完 你怎麼回答不是我要的問題呢抱歉不是我要的答案 我還沒有把問題講出來嘛"},{"start":1405.56,"end":1429.171,"text":"你不要占用我太多時間我的問題才問不到幾個而已我的意思是說現在我們的副組長要61班才可以增加1到3人但是你看到59班 58班 57班他們也是大學校但是沒有副組長的編制他們這麼多的班員沒有辦法只有教師要代理嗎沒有教師願意啊現在要備課"},{"start":1430.291,"end":1456.181,"text":"所以他們沒有辦法去也不願意來參加做這個組長的工作所以用代課老師所以在這個部分的話我說你可不可以說不要一下地了這麼高標到60班以上可不可以就是說40班或者50班40班增加一個50班增加兩個60班增加三個這樣漸進式的話那你們的制度的美意就可以執行下去是不是"},{"start":1457.027,"end":1475.462,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒的關心我想總是這個教育經費也要拜託委員未來能夠給更大力的一個支持你編制就已經是一到三人嘛那我說方法上可不可以調整一下我們會再更細緻來看怎麼樣業長你有聽懂我的意思啦業長一直點頭不要說六十班才可以一到三人因為確實有時候他的標準一切就變成"},{"start":1484.909,"end":1498.392,"text":"這個標準以下的可能一時之間就沒有我也同意委員所講到底切到60班還是59班你的規則你的規範裡面就是要61班以上所以我才說這都是教育團體他們的聲音啦他們的意見所以我也請你把它聽進去做個討論給他們這40班50班也可以有增加這個副組長這缺"},{"start":1510.898,"end":1513.96,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我們再來看怎麼樣也能夠對特殊狀況執行辦法會更加的"},{"start":1519.335,"end":1546.077,"text":"讓他們可以使用到 這才是重點啦好 那我們希望孩子的安全我們來守護也請部長 院長我們一起來做這個研議讓他們可以使用到更多來維護校安人員好不好當初我們五打七安 校安也是這樣還是安全啦我們會來重新加強檢視委員會提出這個問題那謝謝齁那 部長您辛苦 您請回好了我接下來要請交通部長喔"},{"start":1547.878,"end":1566.553,"text":"特別要提到的就是本席的區域裡面在平正龍潭在交通的環境上分別有國道1號跟國道3號它中間會經過一條66的快速道路這個就是我們南桃園最主要的公路的資幹特別有這樣子的安排交通"},{"start":1567.153,"end":1582.049,"text":"那現在的話我們桃園鄰近的這個雙北有鐵路運輸跟公路運輸那因為有國道還有這個市內的公車運輸在對我們平正龍潭是非常重要的"},{"start":1582.509,"end":1606.784,"text":"那就是因為有公路運輸那我們更需要的就是一個轉運站轉運站那現在呢因為我們龍潭這個地方就要來做一個轉運站因為龍潭的車子開過來的話就到台北的永林在這邊台北的永林已經有公車轉運站了我們龍潭平鎮都還沒有那我就先來講龍潭部分那龍潭的話我們要做一個整個這個"},{"start":1609.205,"end":1626.879,"text":"整開區的話時間要比較長包括土地的徵收還有那個都市計畫都要送到內政部去審查那要請內政部快一點幫我們審查通過那但是我們也不能等待啦因為大家我們的民眾鄉親啊都在馬路邊上在等候車子是非常"},{"start":1627.219,"end":1641.455,"text":"安全而且辛苦的所以我們就有一份的短中長期那這個短期的話我們就會用在我們龍潭的運動公園用人行道跟這個公車站這個地方做公車站的停等這個廊道"},{"start":1642.196,"end":1657.954,"text":"那這個中期的話我們就會有一個仙島的轉運站就在這個交流道的這周邊我們仙會又租用了這個1250坪的這個用地啊來做一個仙島轉運站大概我們考慮到像八德的"},{"start":1658.274,"end":1677.749,"text":"他們是會用這簡易的貨櫃屋的方式來做這個我們臨時的這個仙島的轉運站那目前來講的話在這個去年的時候8月份我們已經匯刊完畢了在匯刊完畢的話在去年的12月31號我們也絕標公告那現在就是"},{"start":1678.409,"end":1702.58,"text":"土地的容許使用跟審查跟都市計畫的審議作業大概114年的7月我們拿到建造之後就可以施工115年的7月就可以完工115年的10月就可以啟用今天為什麼特別特別的來跟我們陳部長來溝通一下共車轉運站很重要如果你到我們地方去我剛剛也講了"},{"start":1703.26,"end":1731.499,"text":"他就在路邊太陽曬著在等車子沒有一個他們專門的一個候車的地方是很危險的所以我們下短期的話就在運動公園旁邊就用現在人的候車停的地方來等待所以我們是必須要先做個先導的公車先導的這個轉運站那目前的這個經費大概要一億那我們地方政府大概也會跟我們交通部提出申請大概補助三成那這點的話部長可不可以承諾我們"},{"start":1733.64,"end":1750.031,"text":"來補助我們 報告委員桃園確實是客運的運輸非常的重要啦所以轉運站的部分您一直在爭取這個我曉得但是我們的這個公路局的這個公共運輸永續的交通平權的計畫的預算目前有遭刪的那也有遭凍結的"},{"start":1751.152,"end":1774.084,"text":"所以目前預算還沒有確定之前其實我們很難答應這件事情不過現在桃園市政府他可以先做計畫那並且先用桃園市政府的錢先來做那未來如果我們預算確定之後有需要的話他們來申請我們會來協助部長這個經費我剛剛練了比較多一點時間就告訴你114年今年"},{"start":1775.014,"end":1799.8,"text":"要施工115年7月要來完工如果我們的財化法過那是明年才會有這個分配那今年的話我們今年跟你提出申請這個經費不是很高啦我說的部分其實是總預算的部分所以說你今年如果送來給你審查的話是今年就要撥啦跟財化法是沒有關係啦財化法過是明年的事情這樣可以嗎我說的是總預算"},{"start":1801.5,"end":1819.974,"text":"我們預算還沒有確定,因為我們這筆預算有被凍結也有被刪除的所以還沒有最後確定都說會解凍啦生意分子以後就會解凍啦對,如果能解凍的話我們會願意來協助解凍的話我們去申請就可以是不是?請他們來申請好,謝謝李玉琳委員的資訊,謝謝卓院長、各部會所長的備訓"},{"start":1832.049,"end":1832.395,"text":"接下來我們請登記"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":440,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（16時32分）謝謝主席，請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝，呂委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：卓院長，我想先給你看一個表格，這是去年四大國營事業的營業虧損情形，除了台糖有盈餘57.51億以外，其餘的像台電虧損了411億、中油虧損了355億、台水虧損了41.83億，在這種情形之下，財務狀況這麼困難的情況之下，我們看到的關鍵就是，從台電來講的話，台電的虧損就是因為能源配比的問題，因為2016年我們執意要將非核家園訂為目標，現在馬上就2026年了，今年是2025年，已經9個年頭過去了，這個虧損的情形就是一再發生，也就是因為要非核家園。到2026年時，我們的能源配比要達到火力50%、燃煤30%、再生能源20%，但是現在我們再生能源的配比達到的目標沒有到20%，只有大概11.9%而已，在這種情況之下，未來我們要如何讓台電反虧為盈，這個是我們大家都要繼續努力的，但是大家所看到的是我們就先給它增資了2,500億，又給它撥補了500億的情況之下，它還是有虧損。目前來講，中油也一樣發生這種事情，它也快要步上台電的後塵了，現在中油也提出來了3年要增資3,500億，請問院長，你支持嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：國營的油、電、糖、水四大公司，委員列出來的這個表格，有三家呈現比較嚴重的虧損，但是他們的虧損我們都知道原因，因為他們負有很多的政策目標，這個部分我請部長說明一下為何如此虧損。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，怎麼解決？根本問題在哪裡？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想這是因為當初要補貼這些不漲價的部分，所以造成了這個虧損，在財務上面，我想我們會尋求……"],["呂委員玉玲：不是補貼造成虧損！部長，你這有語病哦，不是補貼造成虧損，是2016年訂定了非核家園的這個目標，現在2026年了，因為我們的能源配比不正確，政策需要檢討調整才能解決這個問題。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們當然是從產、銷、人、發、財、行政跟AI使用等各方面的管理構面下去評估。但是我們從財務面來看，它現在只是提一個財務面的改善，我們有很多其他的管理手法……"],["呂委員玉玲：可是中油要提出3年3,500億……"],["郭部長智輝：我們也可以從產、銷、人、發、財上面……"],["呂委員玉玲：中油現在要提出3年3,500億的增資，你支持嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我還沒有收到它要3,500億的增資……"],["呂委員玉玲：我現在問的題目是這樣子。"],["郭部長智輝：什麼？"],["呂委員玉玲：我是請問院長、部長，中油要提出的增資。"],["郭部長智輝：我們沒有收到中油要提出增資，我們國營事業也沒有收到這樣的一個命題。"],["呂委員玉玲：它現在要提出來3年3,500億。"],["郭部長智輝：現在提出來？"],["呂委員玉玲：對，準備要提出，正在規劃。"],["郭部長智輝：還沒有嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：還沒有。"],["呂委員玉玲：對，我就請問，要做準備啊！要做準備。"],["郭部長智輝：還沒有嘛。如果它提出來的時候，我們會審視需不需要增資。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，我們講完中油就必須要跟你講一下台電的情形。剛剛也講到虧損的情形，部長也講了，撥補、撥補、來補助，我們不能拿人民的納稅錢來撥補，這不是我們人民應該負的義務，所以我們應該就根本的問題，了解一下我們所有的火力、風力、電力、太陽能每一個發電的成本，才能夠解決。你看一下這個圖表，目前來講，火力發電自發電力每一度大概2.87元，購入發電的話是3.46元；太陽能的自發電力是3.94元，太陽能的購入電力是4.87元；風力發電的自發電是4.40元，購入的話是6.59元，核能發電的成本是多少？1.42元。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，前面這幾項都是發電當下的成本，核能發電它有很多未來隱性的成本，那個是非常非常大的……"],["呂委員玉玲：當然，當然有隱性啊！人事也是……"],["卓院長榮泰：是啊！要處理它的核廢料，處理它的整個，相當大的……"],["呂委員玉玲：當然、當然，都有、都有。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個如果不算進去的話……"],["呂委員玉玲：都要處理。所以我們希望再生能源這個綠電也要趕快達標，然後紓解我們未來的非核，尤其是非核，我們要用的核電，今年的5月核三廠就要除役，7月份就正式達到非核家園，所以有很多人在講說，到了非核的時候，我們的再生能源能量能不能夠達到我們要求的20%，未來2030年的30%，能夠達到嗎？你能夠達到的話，才能夠讓我們的電力穩定。如果電力不穩定，院長、部長，企業它會不會出走？這是我們很憂心的問題。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們會在明年2026年的11月讓再生能源達到20%，我們也會在2030年……"],["呂委員玉玲：不是你要讓，數字會說話，你今年才到達差不多12%而已，今年到達12%而已。"],["郭部長智輝：對，我們現在完全把目前能夠做到的……"],["呂委員玉玲：你目前的太陽能發電在12%裡面占了7%，你的風電占了3%，你明年要達到多少？您說多少？"],["郭部長智輝：我們明年要達到20%。"],["呂委員玉玲：20%？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：要靠什麼發電去突飛猛進呢？用什麼再生能源的發電，會讓你達到你預估的這20%？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，我們就是按照我們所計畫的能夠落實……"],["呂委員玉玲：我們希望你計畫要達到。"],["郭部長智輝：計畫一定可以超過。"],["呂委員玉玲：一定可以超過？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我也要請院長，我們是不是要來做一個討論去做調整……"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在就是有一部分的光電需要地方政府來給我們……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你要放眼看國際上大家的情勢，不要每次看到核電，你們就把它排除在外，完全不願意把它納入考量。你看我們最鄰近的國家，日本也好，韓國也好，比如韓國在2038年的核電占比就要達到35.6%；日本到2040年，它的核能就要達到20%；包括美國，它除役的核電廠要重新檢視再來運轉，這就是全世界在國際上大家對能源的看法。所以美國也說它願意協助我們，對於核電它可以協助我們再去重新運轉。"],["卓院長榮泰：但現在我們核能的管制，在現行的法令底下，我們5月17號要除役，這個是法律的規定，法律沒有變更之前，我們只能照法律的規定來做，那我們現在……"],["呂委員玉玲：是，我知道，院長，你一定要講到法律的問題，所以你也要聽聽產業界的聲音，產業界的聲音說得沒有錯，我們從非核家園可以走進非碳家園。在走進非碳家園的時候，我們是不是更加要全面做個調整跟檢討？檢討什麼呢？就是包括一些除役的核電廠它的設備、它的機具是不是有安全？在整個環境結構絕對安全之下，我們可以重新讓有些除役的核電，就像有些核電廠40年了，像美國也是啊，40年的可以延役到60年，安全無虞的情況之下，還有設施都無虞的情況下，我們可以讓它暫緩除役，就是可以延役的情形。"],["卓院長榮泰：建議委員，我們考慮一下這個名詞，非核家園是沒有核能的能源，非碳家園是連火力、連天然氣，只要產生一點碳都不行，才叫非碳家園。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以再生能源嘛！再生能源你有講說……"],["卓院長榮泰：全部百分之百再生能源也是困難的。"],["呂委員玉玲：再生能源有沒有碳？是乾淨的能源嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：對，但全部都是……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長講過啊，核電就是乾淨的能源啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：非碳就是連火力都不能有，才叫非碳。"],["呂委員玉玲：沒有錯。"],["卓院長榮泰：不可能吧！"],["呂委員玉玲：可是我們現在的情況之下，我們在討論納入，逐步的來做到。"],["卓院長榮泰：我的意思是說……"],["呂委員玉玲：我們也希望全部都是非碳家園，這是最好的啊！但是你要看到，目前80%都是火力發電，我們基載的能源、我們的發電就是火力。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我現在……"],["呂委員玉玲：這是我們擔心的，未來非核的話，80%的火力的話，會達到非碳嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不可能啊！20%也沒有非碳啊！80%也不會是非碳，它還是有碳，所以我的戰略思想是減碳……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你沒有聽到我們產業界的聲音嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我的想法是減碳先行，目標淨零。"],["呂委員玉玲：當然要……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們從減碳開始，要減碳，不能非碳。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以未來火力發電也要降低到50%、30%以下了。"],["卓院長榮泰：減碳要先行嘛！"],["呂委員玉玲：這就是目標啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：未來目標還是要達到淨零。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，我們希望還是可以從能源配比去調整，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會照現在的目標前進，只要一切的順序都在大家的支持底下，像部長所說，明年11月……"],["呂委員玉玲：會跟院長、部長討論這個問題，就是因為台電這兩兄弟虧損連連，都要用增資、用補助的方式，我們能夠怎麼樣去澈底解決它的財務困境？這要找出解決辦法，所以是不是能源配比我們怎麼樣來逐步做到？"],["卓院長榮泰：台電受到國際因素，戰爭影響也很多，那時候的虧損也很大，現在慢慢的回來……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你的天然氣、你的煤炭、國際的原物料跟著國際局勢或許有波動嘛！才會讓我們電價越來越高，讓我們成本越來越高、發電成本越來越高，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣的這種原料靠外國進來的比例相當高，所以任何都有可能……"],["呂委員玉玲：院長，你不要一直排斥……"],["卓院長榮泰：我沒有排斥。"],["呂委員玉玲：我是希望我們要怎麼樣去解救台電跟中油一直虧損的情形。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們開放討論跟新的核能技術來做結合，像大家討論的核融合、小型核電廠，這些都可以討論。"],["呂委員玉玲：但是我們希望我們的能源配比能夠調整，這樣子我們的發電成本可以降低，台電跟中油不要虧損，我們也可以穩定供電，企業在我們臺灣的工廠才能夠穩定，產業鏈能夠順利運轉，這才能夠保障他們不會有出走的情形，好不好？這是非常重要的！謝謝。","接下來我們講完電，有預告說4月份要漲電價，漲電價的情形發生，人民又要苦哈哈，又會影響到我們整個物價，因為中油、台電有穩定物價的責任，所以不能一直調漲。我想請教的就是，因為現在我們學校在政府的政策是班班有冷氣，冷氣我們補助了，但是電費卻沒有每個學校補助，為什麼呢？因為我們十二年國教，應該是補助高中、國中、國小，但是我們現在教育部……","郭部長，你先請回，我們請教育部長。"],["主席：麻煩請教育部長備詢。"],["呂委員玉玲：因為現在的電費是國中、國小有補助，高中職沒有補助，你給它冷氣，但電費要自己出的話，讓學生的負擔、家長的經濟負擔更加的沉重，甚至於他們會用插卡式的，或者錢不夠的話就沒有冷氣吹，有冷氣沒有電，就沒冷氣吹了！我有去查教育部的資料，因為國中、國小是義務教育，所以這個是教育部、是我們政府的責任，但是高中職不是義務教育。請問部長，十二年國教，現在進入國中，為了提升學業，99%都念了高中職，高中又在十二年國教，所以是不是應該都屬於義務教育？"],["卓院長榮泰：部長答一下，以後收支劃分改變之後，我們還能補助嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，事實上114年我們在各級學校編了將近59億經費要做電費的補貼。另外在未來財劃法，還有我們的一個統刪，現在這整個年度的預算裡面，事實上是沒有辦法很精準去理解教育部目前可用的年度預算，做這樣的補充說明。當然高中職裡面有許多是各縣市市立高中職，它本來……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，我知道每次跟你們講到這個，你們就提到財劃法，我們先講制度……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，今年我們有編59億……"],["呂委員玉玲：我跟你講制度，你補助冷氣的學校總共有3,584個學校、國小有2,658個學校、國中有732個學校，你都補助了班班有冷氣、也補助了電費，高中職只有194校，194校的學生你就不能補助嗎？而且用制度面來講，十二年國教……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，事實上我們現在的高中職都有自有的校務基金，在相當程度上他們都有能力能夠負擔這樣的水電費。"],["呂委員玉玲：就是沒有能力啊！就是教育團體來跟本席反映，希望我們能為他們發聲。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，教育團體有許多的訊息可能是不夠精準的。"],["呂委員玉玲：你不能說他們不夠精準，他們關心教育、關心孩子，他們是很精準的……"],["鄭部長英耀：教育經費編列管理辦法我非常清楚……"],["呂委員玉玲：包括他們用班費700元或校務基金這個錢不夠，所以才要請求你們協助……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，全國高中職的校務基金有多少錢，我非常清楚。"],["呂委員玉玲：你非常清楚，那請問他們的班費繳多少？他們的校務基金繳多少？"],["鄭部長英耀：校務基金是來自於他們繳的雜費所累積滾存再留在學校……"],["呂委員玉玲：對，就班費嘛！部長……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，國立高中職現在校務基金超過1億以上的至少有20%；6,000萬以上的有七成到八成。委員知道這樣的數據嗎？當委員很關心，我非常感謝委員為學校爭取經費20萬、30萬、50萬，他們事實上校務基金就可以拿出來使用，但是他們都一直非常節約，我也感謝委員關心學校教育，但是許多中小學的校務基金，他們沒有善加使用，我想這可能也是委員以後可以再進一步去了解的，謝謝。"],["呂委員玉玲：我也請部長下鄉去，去了解他們怎麼樣使用冷氣──插卡，卡片要儲值，插下去才可以用電……"],["鄭部長英耀：使用者付費。我們基於淨零……"],["呂委員玉玲：那為什麼國中、國小不用呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：基於淨零家園，怎麼樣讓校園永續發展，我想使用電力、能源有效能，這是學校教育在人才培育一個很重要的目標。"],["呂委員玉玲：好。是、是，你講的我都懂，反正把事情都推走就是了……"],["鄭部長英耀：我不是推走……"],["呂委員玉玲：院長，我想要跟你講的是制度面，請問十二年國教為什麼叫十二年國教？"],["卓院長榮泰：政府為了提供整個教育的服務水準……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以國中、高中、國小他們的資源，是不是要一視同仁？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告……"],["呂委員玉玲：要不要一視同仁？"],["鄭部長英耀：根據地方制度法，國民教育……"],["呂委員玉玲：你教育補助費只補助國小、國中，你不補助高中嗎？部長……"],["鄭部長英耀：高級中等學校以下，地方政府有責任，我想地方教育局處也有責任，他們必須要編年度預算來協助中小學教育的發展，當然中央跟地方是協力的，應該共同讓臺灣的教育能夠更好。"],["呂委員玉玲：是、好，部長說得很好。地方政府要協助他們，資源都能夠補助，我們窮不能窮教育、苦不能苦了我們的孩子，我們如何保護我們的孩子，如何讓我們孩子的資源能夠得到更好的保護，我們要做到的……"],["鄭部長英耀：我的心情跟委員是一致的，我跟委員的想法、態度是一致的。"],["呂委員玉玲：一致的，我們一致，院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是也不能從中央拿錢去，事情又要中央來做，這樣地方自治的精神就不存在啊！"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我請院長跟部長把我的問題聽清楚，我們現在是講制度面，十二年國教高中、國中、國小，他們的教育資源應該是一致性的，不能有偏頗的，你不能說到高中，部長就說使用者付費，國小、國中不是使用者付費嗎？所以不要有這種偏頗的言論，我們用制度一致性的來講。所以我還是請部長，我們都非常了解地方的狀況、每個學校的狀況，這個問題是教育團體提出來請我們幫他們發聲的，所以回去可以研議一下可行性嘛，不要一下在這邊就擋掉了。"],["卓院長榮泰：很遺憾的是，前兩天我們一直講說財政收支劃分法的改變要跟地方自治制度合併來講……"],["呂委員玉玲：好，既然院長你這樣講……"],["卓院長榮泰：如果沒有，我們就非常遺憾啊！"],["呂委員玉玲：依財劃法給地方，讓地方來資助高中，是不是這樣子？你是這樣回答的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：你要看看地方自治的精神到底是怎麼樣。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，依財劃法下去讓地方政府來補助高中的電費，你的答案就是這樣。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告……"],["卓院長榮泰：不只這些，還有很多很多的項目。"],["鄭部長英耀：現在各縣市地方政府有部分的高中職是屬於市立的，這個經費在當時教育部已經全部撥到地方去了，但是屬於國立的高中職，當然是由國教署來負擔他們學校的營運。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我才要請問部長，那屬於國教署的，對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：有部分是屬於國教署的責任。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以請部長回去研議一下啦，不要這麼快就擋掉了。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒。"],["呂委員玉玲：因為這是教育團體大家集體的連署發聲，希望我們讓部長、院長知道，高中也是需要補助這一塊，讓我們的高中也能夠有冷氣可以吹，謝謝部長。","接下來我還是要討論學校的問題，就是學校學務人力不足，前年新北市發生割頸案，引起社會的關注，就是校安的問題，為了做好預防校安事件的重點工作，113年特別針對各個學校通報的校安事件做成了統計報告，我們看到國小、國中、高中每個學校通報的情形在這個表上都有，我們撇開天災、疾病，最重要的包括兒童跟少年的保護、家暴或者行為偏差的暴力、霸凌事件，都非常非常的多，高中因為有教官，教官在學校可以來幫忙維護，做勸導、輔導的工作，但是國中沒有，所以割頸案發生之後，教育部特別針對這個問題提出了一個叫做學務創新人力，因為教官遇缺不補，越來越少，人力不夠，所以你們就來個學務創新人力，這3年先後補了918人、1,210人、1,550人，大概一個學校只補了3人而已，部長，這人數還是不夠喔！"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我進來以後，事實上也感謝大院支持學生輔導法通過，本來就是希望能夠有更多的心理輔導專業人員來協助新世代學生的成長。第二、我們也看到特別在國中青少年的發展階段裡面，他們的情緒管理或者人際之間的互動，我們也知道學校負責防範校安事件的人力真的是要增加。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以人力不夠啦，還是要增加，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：院長在這部分非常關心，所以我們才額外編了……"],["呂委員玉玲：校安很重要。"],["鄭部長英耀：雖然沒有辦法一次到位……"],["呂委員玉玲：沒有，慢慢，逐步、逐步，所以，部長，再跟你進一步的討論……"],["鄭部長英耀：但是我們逐步用經費著重在國中校安人力的補充，我想我們是希望從這個角度來……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，這個學務創新人力是在高中，但是割頸案發生之後，我們就要加強到國中，你看這個數據，國中還是需要很多人力的幫忙，那國中的部分，我們增加了學務人力，就是補助國中設置副組長的方案，但是是有條件的，學校要有61個班，才可以補助1到3位副組長。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想我們總體的教育經費怎麼樣去用到刀口上，那當然希望友善的校園裡面……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，你讓我把話講完，因為我的問題還沒問出來嘛！"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：你就不要緊張，讓我把問題問出來。"],["鄭部長英耀：我其實想要回應委員的是說，這一個友善校園機制的建構還要包含社區、家長，包括警政，我們事實上就一直在努力，包含怎麼樣讓社區有更多對學校的支持……"],["呂委員玉玲：好，謝謝部長，部長，你聽我把問題講完，你怎麼回答的不是我要的答案呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：抱歉。"],["呂委員玉玲：我還沒有把問題講出來嘛！你不要占用我太多時間，我的問題才問不到幾個而已。"],["鄭部長英耀：抱歉。"],["呂委員玉玲：我的意思是說，現在我們的副組長要61班才可以增加1到3人，但是你看到59班、58班、57班，他們也是大學校，卻沒有副組長的編制，他們這麼多的班員，沒有辦法，有教師要代理嗎？沒有教師願意啊！現在要備課，所以他們沒有辦法，也不願意來做這個組長的工作，所以用代課老師，在這個部分你可不可以不要一下訂這麼高標，到60班以上？可不可以訂在40班或者50班，40班增加1個，50班增加2個，60班增加3個？這樣漸進式的話，你們制度的美意就可以執行下去，是不是？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒與關心，我想這個教育經費也是要拜託委員未來能夠給與更大力的支持。"],["呂委員玉玲：你的編制就已經是1到3人，那我說方法上可不可以調整一下？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，我想我們可以更細緻來看怎麼樣……"],["呂委員玉玲：院長，你有聽懂我的意思啦！院長一直點頭，有時候我們不要說60班才可以設1到3人，從40班……"],["鄭部長英耀：因為確實有時候標準一切就變成這個標準以下的可能一時之間就沒有，我也同意委員所講的，到底切到60班還是59班，但是59班又有人說58班，這個我們可以再來……"],["呂委員玉玲：你的規範就是要61班以上，這都是教育團體他們的聲音、他們的意見，所以我也請你把它聽進去，做個討論，讓他們這些40班、50班的也可以增加這個副組長的缺。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒……"],["呂委員玉玲：反正你就照你的編制，不會衝突……"],["鄭部長英耀：我們再來看怎麼樣能夠對特殊狀況……"],["呂委員玉玲：執行辦法更可以讓他們使用到，這才是重點。我們希望孩子的安全我們來守護，也請部長、院長一起來做這個研議，讓他們可以使用到更多維護校安的人員，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：當初我們的「五打七安」，校安也是其中之一……"],["呂委員玉玲：讓孩子安全啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會來重新加強檢視委員所提出的這個問題。"],["呂委員玉玲：謝謝，部長您辛苦了，請回。","我接下來要請教交通部長，特別要提到在本席的區域裡面，平鎮、龍潭在交通的環境上分別有國道1號跟國道3號，中間會經過一條66號快速道路，這個就是我們南桃園最主要的公路支幹，交通特別有這樣子的安排。現在桃園鄰近的雙北有鐵路運輸跟公路運輸，國道還有市內的公車運輸對我們平鎮、龍潭是非常重要的，就是因為有公路運輸，我們更需要的就是一個轉運站。現在我們龍潭就要來做一個轉運站，因為龍潭的車子開過來就到臺北的永寧，臺北的永寧已經有公車轉運站了，我們龍潭、平鎮都還沒有。","我先講龍潭部分，龍潭我們要做一個整開區的話時間要比較長，包括土地的徵收，還有都市計畫都要送到內政部去審查，也要請內政部快一點幫我們審查通過。但是我們也不能等待，因為我們的民眾、鄉親都在馬路邊上等候車子，是非常不安全而且辛苦的，所以我們有分為短中長期，短期的話我們會在龍潭的運動公園用人行道跟公車站這個地方做公車站的停等廊道，中期的話我們就會有一個先導的轉運站，就在交流道的周邊，我們會先租用1,250坪的用地來做一個先導轉運站，大概我們有考慮到，像八德他們是會用簡易貨櫃屋的方式來做這個臨時的先導轉運站。目前來講，在去年8月份我們已經會勘完畢了，在去年12月31日也決標公告了，現在就差在土地的容許使用、審查跟都市計畫的審議作業，大概114年7月我們拿到建照之後就可以施工，115年7月就可以完工，115年10月就可以啟用。今天為什麼要特別來跟陳部長溝通一下，是因為這個公車轉運站很重要，如果你到我們地方去，我剛剛也講了，他就在路邊被太陽曬著在等車子，沒有一個專門候車的地方是很危險的，所以我們現在短期的話就在運動公園旁邊，就用現在的候車亭來等待，所以我們必須要先做個先導轉運站，目前經費大概要1億，地方政府大概也會跟交通部提出申請，大概補助三成，關於這點，部長可不可以承諾來補助我們？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，桃園的客運運輸確實是非常重要，所以轉運站的部分，我曉得您一直在爭取這個，但是公路局的公路公共運輸永續及交通平權計畫的預算目前有遭刪的，也有遭凍結的，在目前預算還沒有確定之前，其實我們很難答應這件事情。不過現在桃園市政府可以先做計畫，並且先用桃園市政府的錢來做，未來如果我們預算確定之後，有需要的話，他們來申請，我們會來協助。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，關於這個經費，我剛剛用了比較多一點時間就是要告訴你，114年（今年）要施工，115年7月要完工，如果我們的財劃法過了，那是明年才會這麼分配嘛！今年的話，我們今年跟你提出申請，這個經費不是很高啦！"],["陳部長世凱：我說的部分其實是總預算的部分，目前還沒有確定。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以今年如果送來給你審查的話，是今年就要撥，跟財劃法沒有關係，財劃法過是明年的事情，這樣可以嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我說的是總預算，我們的預算還沒有確定，因為我們這筆預算有被凍結的，也有被刪除的，所以還沒有最後確定。"],["呂委員玉玲：到時候會解凍，3月份以後就會解凍啦！"],["陳部長世凱：如果能解凍的話，我們會願意來協助。"],["呂委員玉玲：解凍的話，我們去申請就可以是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：請他們來申請。"],["呂委員玉玲：好。因為時間到了，我本來還有一個問題，那就請大家一起來努力，讓地方更好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝呂玉玲委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","接下來請登記第27號陳冠廷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","王育敏","邱議瑩","陳昭姿","賴瑞隆","萬美玲","王世堅","羅廷瑋","邱志偉","呂玉玲","陳冠廷","游顥"],"page_start":28,"meetingDate":["2025-03-14"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00002","1142601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1142601_00003"}}}