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00:01:01,791\n還更像是往這個兵凶戰危的這個這個過程在越去緊張那剛才稍早我們王世堅王委員有送院長一個大大的算盤那希望這個算盤他不僅是代表的賴政府還是不是精打細算那我們更是要提醒那許多重要的政策重要的決策那如一算盤不能打錯\n\n4\n00:01:02,708 --> 00:01:16,228\n那所以這個部分的話我們都希望是看到穩定而不要看到不穩定那許多的委員其實都是非常擔憂因為是全民都在擔憂那延續剛才許多委員所提到的\n\n5\n00:01:16,909 --> 00:01:39,850\n那在我們看到目前來講在昨天賴清德總統發表談話之後那其實我相信是全民焦慮全民恐慌那因為這也往這個更加還是不是走向戰爭的這個過程那其實大家都是共同擔憂那我想請教一下院長你也會擔憂會發生戰事嗎\n\n6\n00:01:42,674 --> 00:02:06,876\n我更擔憂的是如果我們沒有自我防衛的能力我們將沒有辦法保障自己的安全所以昨天總統的才事之後不見得像委員所說的大家都擔憂而是那些想對台灣要心魔不軌的人會擔憂但要保護台灣的人是得到一個最好的總統的支持跟政策上的支持我想這個是\n\n7\n00:02:08,698 --> 00:02:30,244\n造成我們內部更團結的開始只要我們團結我們就不會分裂我們不分裂敵人就不會加倍我坦白說如果院長剛才所講我是覺得這個給全民扣了個大帽子全民擔憂的是是不是發生戰爭是不是孩子上戰場那擔憂的人的話他就是好像聽你所說變成是出賣國家\n\n8\n00:02:31,308 --> 00:02:51,846\n但是如果說感到興奮的那這樣子他們是在期待戰爭嗎我覺得這樣子的說法全民要團結是這些對我們有企圖心的人要擔憂我相信你所指的不是指全民啦那同樣的我還是要在這裡也跟院長講這個目前來講的局勢確實是更加緊張啊\n\n9\n00:02:53,052 --> 00:03:06,725\n那所以說其實像目前我想要就教一下院長在昨天所發表談話之後啊您覺得將來在不久後有沒有可能會走向戒嚴\n\n10\n00:03:08,380 --> 00:03:24,916\n像什麼戒嚴我跟你說不可能台灣成為一個戒嚴的時代台灣經過全世界最長最長的戒嚴我們已經走過了那個時代在台灣民主高度發展的今天我們有健全的國會我們有健全的軍隊我們有健全的社會\n\n11\n00:03:25,556 --> 00:03:40,252\n我們有高水準的民主素養的人民當然我們內部有一些問題但這個問題我們可以用民主的方式來解決民主所造成的問題但戒嚴應該不是總統手上的權力他會去使用的絕對不是\n\n12\n00:03:40,532 --> 00:04:04,004\n好那記得你說的內容因為我們也不希望沒有在這個民意上的戒嚴但是在很多的政策與措施走向了實際上往戒嚴邁進那院長那我想要接著請教在目前這個發表談話之後那這個等同於是兩岸的緊張情勢絕對是更加升溫\n\n13\n00:04:04,924 --> 00:04:12,851\n那在ECFA的部分目前有沒有認為將來會有因此停止的可能性\n\n14\n00:04:13,376 --> 00:04:40,838\n我們一直在建立台灣自主的經濟安全只要我們夠我們自己經濟安全我們從各方面做有序而且是必要的調整那台灣會往世界走台灣會轉向轉向海洋轉向世界那台灣會把我們的生產我們的市場都放到世界各地去我們就不會受到某一個國家單獨對台灣太多台灣對他的依賴性所以我們正在往這個方向走也希望得到全民的支持\n\n15\n00:04:41,550 --> 00:05:01,213\n我相信剛才你所講,台灣不可能是獨立在世界體系一環、經濟體系一環的任何一個環節,當然也不可能說在這個所謂的全球,我相信這是一個整體,當然不是說對於任何一個地方、任何一個城市也好、國家也好都不能夠過度依賴,\n\n16\n00:05:01,954 --> 00:05:22,911\n但是你覺得像目前的一個情況有沒有可能未來ECFA是有可能因此而停止甚至有沒有做好各種的因應或衝擊的準備當我們面對一個不是法治的社會不是民主的國家它要對我們用任何的方式不是我們在這裡能夠預料得到的但我們是希望\n\n17\n00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:39,431\n兩岸之間能夠健康有序的交流能夠尊嚴對等的交流凡是用談判用對話來代替現在這種互相不了解這個才是好的比方說那你說的好啊那我覺得其實經濟部長也可以起來\n\n18\n00:05:40,211 --> 00:06:08,497\n那這個你剛才說以這個談判或是一個交流才說一個健康的方式來進行那我想請教目前來講針對經貿議題在兩岸有沒有做任何形式的交流尤其是在去年賴總統賴內閣就是你的內閣上任之後有沒有做各種形式的交流或是談判我們在很多的方式經濟部等一下陸委會我們都可以談一下\n\n19\n00:06:10,087 --> 00:06:31,857\n報告委員我想我們在上任以來我們碰到的是中國對ECFA的部分取消我們當然要提早因應因為它的不確定性太高所以我們希望能夠協助沒有ECFA的措施之後的業者\n\n20\n00:06:33,123 --> 00:07:00,596\n能夠轉移市場到除了這個中國以外的市場這第一個第二個我們協助他能夠提升避開這個中國的大量的這個製造因為中國用補貼的這個方式造成我們到我們的台商到中國去製造的時候面臨到更大的這個傷害所以我們要幫助在台灣生產的這些廠商過去他銷給中國的我們都完全來輔導他們\n\n21\n00:07:02,057 --> 00:07:17,781\n能夠到這個中國以外的市場來進行他們這個生意的這個持續下去好那我就直接就教部長那在目前來講針對EXPA的這種情況那有沒有做任何的一個衝擊影響評估相關的報告\n\n22\n00:07:21,912 --> 00:07:45,765\n未來假如因此取消的時候您的意思是說還沒有取消的部分還是說已經取消的部分假如像現在昨天之後情勢更加升溫之後您能做出任何的衝擊甚至停止之後的對於我們整個各行各業百工百業的一個衝擊的影響評估報告對百工百業我想這個\n\n23\n00:07:47,790 --> 00:08:07,671\n一般的影響評估當然是有的那我直接跟部長就直接提這個聽起來因為像現在從昨天到今後期確實更加衝突性我相信陛下主委你也同意吧更加緊張跟委員報告當然中國大陸一直對我們經濟脅迫這也是事實\n\n24\n00:08:08,593 --> 00:08:27,712\n不過我們相關部會都做好的各種的準備我們在國安的思考一定是做最壞的打算好我知道任何的一個政府包括馬政府此起一定是做最壞的打算那一定是做最充足的準備一定是盡力來去溝通啦我相信在座三位一定都認同那我要直接回答就是說\n\n25\n00:08:28,453 --> 00:08:48,595\n就是像剛才所提到的這個答案並沒有明確的回覆我到底有沒有做好假如像昨天之後到現在未來那ECFA如果因此而到時候停止之後那影響百工百業的衝擊報告目前來講經濟部是不是有做那因為有做的話是不是可以公開的也讓社會各界百工百業各種產業來做因應\n\n26\n00:08:51,584 --> 00:09:12,016\n我們在去年的時候當ECFA取消的部分我們就已經有公告來協助這些受ECFA影響的廠商如何協助他們來轉移市場這個是我們在去年就已經開始做了\n\n27\n00:09:12,944 --> 00:09:37,362\n好那沒關係那我這樣子聽起來大致上啊就是說如果說要衝擊的廠商的話當然一定是要協助啦那其實在任何的一個全球的一個就是分工之下啦產業鏈的這種互動之下其實本來就是每一個市場都應該是要去做溝通啦還能夠讓我們的這個企業界產業界都能夠去做任何形式的一個評估那我相信這個絕對會是比較理想正確\n\n28\n00:09:38,163 --> 00:10:01,874\n所以現在聽起來的話,是沒有做相關,如果因為像昨天發表台灣之後,那個法,未來如果因此而喊停的時候,整體的一個評估報告,所以說許多的產業受到影響的這些項目來講,他們並沒有辦法因此來提早做運營。那在這裡是本席能夠請經濟部,能夠做相關的評估報告、衝擊報告之後,甚至能夠在公開讓社會各界提早做運營。\n\n29\n00:10:04,019 --> 00:10:27,868\n剛剛部長已經說過了我們之前我們有做了相關的因應現在我們做全球的佈局那我們要提醒中國的經濟下行他現在的經濟狀況是極端的不好他做任何的變動如果對他的經濟產生更劇烈的變化而往下更走的話也不是他樂意看到的當然也不是全世界樂意看到的所以不要做不需要做這樣的我們有我們自己\n\n30\n00:10:29,410 --> 00:10:40,630\n所以說,像剛才所提到的話,甚至假如未來來講,因為未來情勢更加緊張的時候,全部面的停止的時候,目前來講人評不高沒有做,但是也不宜做嗎?\n\n31\n00:10:41,533 --> 00:11:06,279\n我們保障自己的安全怎麼會是情勢越加緊張不是啊那要輔導轉型輔導跟其他的國家來去做連結相關的一個輔導措施甚至補貼措施過去馬英國時期的時候其實都有做相關的評估報告跟研究現在國內好幾位像委員這樣身強體壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收被對方所利用等一下你這句話我要反駁我另外被吸收喔我不是說你我說現役軍人\n\n32\n00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:26,412\n他是很強壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收對對方所利用我們當然要有一個防制的精神如果能夠做有效的防制我們是加強自己的能力我要跟院長講就是說今天來講各個國家在任何一個地方他們在做這種侵犯工作我想實在話本席絕對是站在國家安全的立場\n\n33\n00:11:27,413 --> 00:11:54,892\n這個覺得大家全民都是站在國家安全立場如果個人因為他被吸收或是有跟任何國家這樣子有任何成為間諜的一個情況的話當然是絕不容忍但是但是回頭來講那這個一個法案未來來講因為賴清德總統昨天的發表通關之後後面的情勢更加緊張評估報告如果是沒有做衝擊報告沒有做還是有請經濟部會來做的之後來做因應這樣子是否可以我們昨天在開會的時候就已經要求各部會\n\n34\n00:11:55,916 --> 00:12:22,858\n要把總統的才智要專案的執行要定期的考核而且限期的完成必要修法就修法該立法就立法該訂定行動計畫就訂定行動計畫這個已經在處理當中了昨天那一個資料我看了十次了所以說經濟部包括在於這個經濟重啟確實沒有相關的一個因應當然這個評估包括也不是在一個簡短的談話中可以去提到的所以說請這個部長這邊做相關的評估\n\n35\n00:12:24,779 --> 00:12:36,251\n還要讓社會大眾提早去做了解這樣是否可行就經濟的部分我想我們經濟部已經在內部作業我們也根據各個署各個處\n\n36\n00:12:40,356 --> 00:13:05,083\n那麼請他們提出來對我們在中國的這些台商會產生什麼影響然後在台灣的業者他們如果是輸出到中國的部分那可能會碰到什麼樣的問題我們都給予分析然後再來輔導我們台灣的廠商在未來如何因應這樣的一個可能產生的變異\n\n37\n00:13:06,463 --> 00:13:34,284\n沒關係那大致上就是這一個整個過程中對於兩岸經貿剛才院長有提到也希望能夠務實的來去做互動交流那甚至能夠保護台山那我想直接請教在過去到今年520到現在有針對兩岸的議題產業的議題包括FA相關項目的議題有作為任何一次經貿上面的談判或是聯繫嗎\n\n38\n00:13:36,274 --> 00:13:57,381\n跟對方的談判我想主動權都不是在我們一方他跟我們的接觸我們請陸委會就知道我們光是希望兩小兩會就光光談判對方就是遲遲不願意他就是不願意用談判的方式他不願意把我們放在一個對等尊嚴的方式不願意跟我們做健康有序的接觸\n\n39\n00:13:58,281 --> 00:14:18,489\n這是對方的問題那個我就不跟你為難啦我直接直接講就是說像陸委會跟其實兩岸之間他重申紀不應該是斷掉的也不應該是差別拔線的我們傳很多東西他從來就沒有告訴我們我從此之間那幫老師說都一定應該有一個正常的互動啦那我坦白講\n\n40\n00:14:19,810 --> 00:14:32,902\n這個部分過去馬英九執政了8年那有辦法在不管是美國或包括中國大陸彼此之間讓我們許多的產業跟台商還能有一些經濟方面的一個成長\n\n41\n00:14:33,752 --> 00:14:55,818\n那今天全球布局不管是進出或來講不能過度依賴但是他能夠在全球的市場下在台灣能夠許多產業扮演角色這是重要的那我直接接著就就好了那軍事審判法的部分那我們顧立雄顧部長那這個部分算不算複批部長主委謝謝\n\n42\n00:15:00,987 --> 00:15:25,656\n部長早上已經有答過這是一個重新的開機截然不同的制度老郭部長是那這樣子軍事審判法重新再起那你覺得這個部分跟你過去所發表的言論跟價值與立場有沒有著實經過的感覺我今天早上已經跟王委員做過說明\n\n43\n00:15:27,011 --> 00:15:44,413\n我的立場沒有,我的見解都沒有任何的改變就是說我認為過去的軍事審判有違反憲法的意志那也沒有辦法獲得人民的信賴所以我現在會盡個人最大的努力來確保我們重新打造的軍事審判\n\n44\n00:15:45,245 --> 00:16:06,712\n是會跟過去的制度是不一樣的如果說你認為當初的沒有辦法來做客觀的審判的情況之下那當初在提出修正案以及報告案在倡稿的廢除的部分那為什麼當初你不用倡稿來去做修正?\n\n45\n00:16:08,287 --> 00:16:24,715\n我想就是當我已經講了就是當時的這個軍事審判按照道爾干的憲法的意旨比如說軍法官他就認為他沒有符合身份保障所以他不是一個真正的法官所以我們在這個部分就要確保這個\n\n46\n00:16:26,283 --> 00:16:44,048\n以後的這個軍事審判是一個這個軍法官是獲得有一個獨立性獲得身份保障所以我會說我們要定軍法官人事條例我們要定軍事法院組織法那為什麼當初你在提倡這個議題的時候不是用這個角度\n\n47\n00:16:44,793 --> 00:17:01,539\n我沒有表示說沒有用這個角度我一直在主張軍事審判法相關的違憲的地方所以我們指出這些違憲的地方如果沒有辦法補這些破洞的話那就這一個部分我們認為\n\n48\n00:17:03,208 --> 00:17:16,214\n就應該要回到這個民事的審判來所以說當初你認為應該回到民事的審判但是你當了部長之後你反而會認為又要再回覆嗎但是我跟委員做一個\n\n49\n00:17:17,470 --> 00:17:40,130\n說明,你讓我有機會稍微說明一下但是,軍事審判法當時的第一條它仍然維持暫時要進行軍事審判所以在暫時仍然維持軍事審判的一個情況之下11年來平時如果沒有重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度暫時是不可能會憑空所以你這個時候暫時做運營嗎?\n\n50\n00:17:42,432 --> 00:17:57,670\n我們國防部本來就是要為平戰轉換做準備那為什麼在過去我們所有國防部的人都是為了平戰轉換在做準備啊對那為什麼在去年跟過去前八年的時候沒有提出\n\n51\n00:17:59,795 --> 00:18:13,693\n那所以說在過去的時候沒有提出而在賴總統昨天的這個發表講話之後就提出那這個部分那過去的九年的期間那到底這樣的軍事審判法被怎麼定義\n\n52\n00:18:14,993 --> 00:18:39,496\n就我理解我們過去的法律師一直以來都在研究就是說平時這個審判的制度軍事審判的制度要如何能夠維繫他的能量的運作所以過去的九年的成果是如何因為你也擔任過許多重要的職務所以過去的九年的話其實完全都沒有對這個方面提出要求現在就是因應戰死\n\n53\n00:18:41,123 --> 00:18:58,458\n我想我們國防部在做這個相關的平戰轉換做所有的戰備任務都是在為平戰轉換做準備我們的國防部存在的價值就是隨時做好這個備戰的準備我們的戰訓本部我們相關的訓練我們相關裝備的獲得也是都是如此那麼包括這個\n\n54\n00:19:06,964 --> 00:19:24,314\n軍事審判這個課題也是如此所以我認為如果說新的軍事審判他能夠達到一個公平審判的原則跟正當法律程序的原則那麼這樣子重新開機的一個軍事審判他就可以來救\n\n55\n00:19:25,654 --> 00:19:54,152\n現役軍人犯執運人職務上司罪這個部分來進行我想這一個部分應該是跟我的過去的見解沒有任何的一個不一致的地方今天對於這一個軍事懲判法這個當然未來我們也是會看你們提出的版本的內容但是我都想你剛才所提到的如果說你那時候處理上軍事懲判的過程中到底是否公正我坦白講這個是人的問題\n\n56\n00:19:55,134 --> 00:20:11,375\n那當然說可以用條文或是規定來去把這個降到最低可是同樣的你可能還是要記得目前來講全國民眾對於許多的司法介入還甚至許多的相關的這種的外力的介入那影響到各種的判決\n\n57\n00:20:12,156 --> 00:20:24,547\n不管在司法上其實人民對於整體司法改革他還是有很大的一個不信任所以說今天來講在提出軍事審判法的一個調整的時候是不是真的能夠解決這個問題那同時過去九年為什麼不提\n\n58\n00:20:27,609 --> 00:20:55,948\n那我在當初在爭議這個事情的時候為什麼不提而是現在提那因應暫時是需要那沒關係這個就如你所說那我想要接著請教一下那外交部長林昭榮林部長那他也在今天的出席名單那部長有在嗎今天是次長代理那次長在那林昭榮部長是有在這個名單上面那今天請教時間暫停特別跟郵委員報告一下外交部長今天要接待外賓有遞請假單\n\n59\n00:21:03,607 --> 00:21:24,977\n我們直接看秀的這個提案大家直接有提到林佳龍委員現在的部長過去也有提出軍事審判法第一條的修正那那個都是在黃中秋事件那時候所提出的那部長如果有在的話大家有想請教一下部長他的看法以及他現在對於這個案子的時候他是持什麼樣的一個角度那就不用請次長回答,謝謝\n\n60\n00:21:26,394 --> 00:21:39,934\nOK那接著就不用請市長回答啦這是曾哲琳教授部長本人他所提案來詢問的部分那我們直接來再問一些接著民生大家非常關心的這個五一勞動節\n\n61\n00:21:41,576 --> 00:21:57,323\n那是不是能夠放假這個其實過去能夠大家一直在討論院長一定也有評估過那市長請那想請教那個洪森漢部長要不要上來那想請教一下那這個議題那大家其實許多的\n\n62\n00:21:58,183 --> 00:22:21,715\n五一勞動節勞工放假但是許多的公務人員或者是包括教育人員他們沒有放假所以就會變成帶小孩就會有出現這個問題那大家都一直在討論也一直在期待五一勞動節能放假那今天院長要不要跟大家宣布一下是不是今年的五一勞動節大家可以放假也讓造福大家這些許多的各行各業的家長依照現在紀念日\n\n63\n00:22:22,415 --> 00:22:39,727\n及節日施行辦法當初在決定的時候在審定的時候有一個附帶決議他就說國定的假日加起來要115到116天那我們現在是達到這個上限當然時空是不一樣的社會環境會不好我本來就有預期你會這麼回覆\n\n64\n00:22:41,008 --> 00:22:59,026\n時空會不同條件會不同如果社會大家認為有一天的放假會讓社會等大家在效率等等會提高而且變動會最少我們會願意聽聽大家的意見這個已經討論了相當多年了因為這個討論相當多年但是我們總是期待今年能夠有一個不一樣的結果\n\n65\n00:22:59,306 --> 00:23:22,091\n因為這個假日是勞工放本來就是要感謝勞工人事長說明一下我知道那我想知道的答案就是今年可不可以放所以說那個相關的建議其實院長都知道所以我是想要直接就教院長今年的五一勞動節會不會做一個放假的宣示我們公布的行事曆裡面是沒有放假的那明年的話會不會往這個方向放\n\n66\n00:23:23,106 --> 00:23:50,967\n我們明年的話會不會宣示希望往五一勞動節的方向能夠放假的部分來努力這個我想包括人事長因為有院長的宣示會比較有效勞動部或人事總署的部分他們還是沒有辦法代表行政院的態度我們可以做幕僚分析啦事實上以勞動節來講的話現在是勞工放假那一天他們也可以利用那個\n\n67\n00:23:51,647 --> 00:24:21,277\n那其實就最主要是家長他們其實還是會遇到小孩子的問題那需要帶所以說有沒有可能能夠往五一勞動節作為放假日的方向來努力請部長說明一下吳聰說明一下現在五一勞動節目前適用勞基法的勞工是無放假的我勞工畢竟出身的對所以我說就勞工本身的勞務所管的勞務本身現在是有放假的部長你還是沒有辦法回答五一勞動節到底有沒有可能來做放假日\n\n68\n00:24:27,198 --> 00:24:50,384\n在實施週休二日之後其實我們對整個放假的制度已經在一個制度化裡面去運行了也運行這麼多年所以並沒有所謂要再回復到那個時代的幾天放假的問題但是我們達到一百一十五、一百一十六這當然可以討論社會只要認為變動最小、成本最小而且符合全國一致性今年跟明年還是沒有答案\n\n69\n00:24:51,204 --> 00:25:09,656\n我們可以討論,如果他變動小、成本小、全國一致性大家都能夠有共識,我們希望能夠討論大家的期待當然是希望放假但沒關係啦,我們直接來接個就教啦我們跟委員多多的請教來接個就教,就是預算中心的報告指出台電公司預計114年度發電燃料費加113年度減少351.46億,減幅7.96\n\n70\n00:25:16,860 --> 00:25:35,188\n目前來講台電給出的預算顯示發電燃料成本是下降的我想直接就叫院長在目前來講我們知道很多能源配比的問題當然部長也來陪同今年有沒有可能不要調漲電價\n\n71\n00:25:36,889 --> 00:25:54,808\n台電在惡霧戰爭之前在那個時候費用漲價很多但現在有稍微平緩但是我們現在考慮他的財政的結構是因為他過去幾年用了很多的補貼的需求所以他付出了很多對其他事業的這個補貼那今年的話有沒有可能能夠不要調漲\n\n72\n00:25:58,012 --> 00:26:21,665\n它是虧損的,我們如果先把它的產業...過去也補了兩千億,也補了五百億那在今年那麼多產業行業受到影響今年有沒有可能能夠基於穩定物價照顧民生而今年不要調漲,或者是不往調漲的方向邁進報告委員,我們過去因為戰爭或者材料調漲\n\n73\n00:26:23,311 --> 00:26:38,734\n我們大概吸收了六千億所以事實上過去的撥補並沒有那麼高所以他現在還存有這些東西部長我直接跟您請教這些我其實都理解但是我們會來努力但是條價與否這個是由電價省委員他們來決定的\n\n74\n00:26:49,016 --> 00:27:13,226\n所以我們會努力我們台電自己會努力部長我知道你也努力了那我直接提一下上次其實你也提到一句這個部分院長也是很重要的因素我就不把原話再翻一次那希望院長能夠往穩定物價不調漲的方式來努力穩定物價反應成本還有這個節約能源將來必須使用者付費這個都是原則但是這個原則只會交到電價審議委員會\n\n75\n00:27:15,054 --> 00:27:37,647\n去做審議我知道可是我們在這裡決定好沒關係所以上次有提到院長你當演員很重要的角色那原話我不說好不好那我直接再接著就叫這個醫護人員相關這個護理人員啊那目前來講在我們看到白班津貼研擬一年那目前的進展\n\n76\n00:27:38,447 --> 00:27:48,115\n還有社會各界也都在期待那想就教一下這個白板津貼未來的一個發布跟性質補貼那是有一個宣示或是有一個回應\n\n77\n00:27:57,999 --> 00:28:24,609\n法務委員我們護理人員的切口我們有推動十二項策略從他的教考信用增加的那個直接回津貼的部分就可以了直接回相關護理人員津貼的部分未來的方向為何就好津貼的部分我們當然是除了創造更好的工作環境以外在待遇方面我們特別很清楚的來增加\n\n78\n00:28:25,918 --> 00:28:40,724\n那個護理會特別是急重症跟一般急症病房我們最近昨天才通過醫院的一個總額的協商我們將會增加的大概42億來增加護理會我相信這個對於那個\n\n79\n00:28:43,107 --> 00:29:03,445\n護理的一個待遇會增加很多這樣可以喔那最主要是護理的也非常的辛苦啊那所以說希望說在中央政府部分能夠重視他們非常辛苦的一個內容也穩定他們這個職場場域他們能夠盡可能能夠減少流動那同時再補充之前急診護理就是醫務超載那轉院困難\n\n80\n00:29:06,167 --> 00:29:34,167\n那發生了許多悲劇啊那希望未來在部內這邊也能夠持續針對目前來講急診室病房病床數不足的一個問題還來去做一個改善有沒有一個簡短的回應是的除了改善各個醫事人員的工作環境增加應有急重症的醫事人員的津貼以外我們在對針對病人方面特別是在急診跟病床急診病床的一個調配\n\n81\n00:29:35,131 --> 00:29:52,194\n我們當然也請院方能夠做靈活的調併那部長我是希望說在這個許多患者他們因為病床患者的家屬是心急如焚那這個問題是一定要特別的重視我們會全力以赴來解決這個問題\n\n82\n00:29:53,055 --> 00:30:06,951\n那最後就是剛才院長有提到團結那我在想這個團結在過去的一年到今年我們是看到的是許多的撕裂那如果說在許多的重大議題\n\n83\n00:30:08,032 --> 00:30:28,419\n那在行政院法扮演一個重要的角色各位應該是要能夠積極主動的來讓朝野之間能夠做調和我相信重新思考應該能夠有比較好的結果啦那不然就不會發生這個大惡霸那我們都要堅定的不要讓貧窮跟戰爭留給下一代我們需要是和平發展才是真正團結謝謝\n\n84\n00:30:37,007 --> 00:30:38,143\n報議會我們本日排定\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4478\t8351\t謝謝院長 那有請行政院長麻煩請卓院長再度備選\n20112\t34756\t那其實我們都希望這整個國家的發展跟繁榮經濟的發展都是在一個穩定的一個情況跟氛圍之下可以逐漸進步那我們也覺得像現在來講確實\n36936\t61791\t還更像是往這個兵凶戰危的這個這個過程在越去緊張那剛才稍早我們王世堅王委員有送院長一個大大的算盤那希望這個算盤他不僅是代表的賴政府還是不是精打細算那我們更是要提醒那許多重要的政策重要的決策那如一算盤不能打錯\n62708\t76228\t那所以這個部分的話我們都希望是看到穩定而不要看到不穩定那許多的委員其實都是非常擔憂因為是全民都在擔憂那延續剛才許多委員所提到的\n76909\t99850\t那在我們看到目前來講在昨天賴清德總統發表談話之後那其實我相信是全民焦慮全民恐慌那因為這也往這個更加還是不是走向戰爭的這個過程那其實大家都是共同擔憂那我想請教一下院長你也會擔憂會發生戰事嗎\n102674\t126876\t我更擔憂的是如果我們沒有自我防衛的能力我們將沒有辦法保障自己的安全所以昨天總統的才事之後不見得像委員所說的大家都擔憂而是那些想對台灣要心魔不軌的人會擔憂但要保護台灣的人是得到一個最好的總統的支持跟政策上的支持我想這個是\n128698\t150244\t造成我們內部更團結的開始只要我們團結我們就不會分裂我們不分裂敵人就不會加倍我坦白說如果院長剛才所講我是覺得這個給全民扣了個大帽子全民擔憂的是是不是發生戰爭是不是孩子上戰場那擔憂的人的話他就是好像聽你所說變成是出賣國家\n151308\t171846\t但是如果說感到興奮的那這樣子他們是在期待戰爭嗎我覺得這樣子的說法全民要團結是這些對我們有企圖心的人要擔憂我相信你所指的不是指全民啦那同樣的我還是要在這裡也跟院長講這個目前來講的局勢確實是更加緊張啊\n173052\t186725\t那所以說其實像目前我想要就教一下院長在昨天所發表談話之後啊您覺得將來在不久後有沒有可能會走向戒嚴\n188380\t204916\t像什麼戒嚴我跟你說不可能台灣成為一個戒嚴的時代台灣經過全世界最長最長的戒嚴我們已經走過了那個時代在台灣民主高度發展的今天我們有健全的國會我們有健全的軍隊我們有健全的社會\n205556\t220252\t我們有高水準的民主素養的人民當然我們內部有一些問題但這個問題我們可以用民主的方式來解決民主所造成的問題但戒嚴應該不是總統手上的權力他會去使用的絕對不是\n220532\t244004\t好那記得你說的內容因為我們也不希望沒有在這個民意上的戒嚴但是在很多的政策與措施走向了實際上往戒嚴邁進那院長那我想要接著請教在目前這個發表談話之後那這個等同於是兩岸的緊張情勢絕對是更加升溫\n244924\t252851\t那在ECFA的部分目前有沒有認為將來會有因此停止的可能性\n253376\t280838\t我們一直在建立台灣自主的經濟安全只要我們夠我們自己經濟安全我們從各方面做有序而且是必要的調整那台灣會往世界走台灣會轉向轉向海洋轉向世界那台灣會把我們的生產我們的市場都放到世界各地去我們就不會受到某一個國家單獨對台灣太多台灣對他的依賴性所以我們正在往這個方向走也希望得到全民的支持\n281550\t301213\t我相信剛才你所講,台灣不可能是獨立在世界體系一環、經濟體系一環的任何一個環節,當然也不可能說在這個所謂的全球,我相信這是一個整體,當然不是說對於任何一個地方、任何一個城市也好、國家也好都不能夠過度依賴,\n301954\t322911\t但是你覺得像目前的一個情況有沒有可能未來ECFA是有可能因此而停止甚至有沒有做好各種的因應或衝擊的準備當我們面對一個不是法治的社會不是民主的國家它要對我們用任何的方式不是我們在這裡能夠預料得到的但我們是希望\n324040\t339431\t兩岸之間能夠健康有序的交流能夠尊嚴對等的交流凡是用談判用對話來代替現在這種互相不了解這個才是好的比方說那你說的好啊那我覺得其實經濟部長也可以起來\n340211\t368497\t那這個你剛才說以這個談判或是一個交流才說一個健康的方式來進行那我想請教目前來講針對經貿議題在兩岸有沒有做任何形式的交流尤其是在去年賴總統賴內閣就是你的內閣上任之後有沒有做各種形式的交流或是談判我們在很多的方式經濟部等一下陸委會我們都可以談一下\n370087\t391857\t報告委員 我想我們在上任以來我們碰到的是中國對ECFA的部分取消我們當然要提早因應 因為它的不確定性太高所以我們希望能夠協助沒有ECFA的措施之後的業者\n393123\t420596\t能夠轉移市場到除了這個中國以外的市場這第一個第二個我們協助他能夠提升避開這個中國的大量的這個製造因為中國用補貼的這個方式造成我們到我們的台商到中國去製造的時候面臨到更大的這個傷害所以我們要幫助在台灣生產的這些廠商過去他銷給中國的我們都完全來輔導他們\n422057\t437781\t能夠到這個中國以外的市場來進行他們這個生意的這個持續下去好那我就直接就教部長那在目前來講針對EXPA的這種情況那有沒有做任何的一個衝擊影響評估相關的報告\n441912\t465765\t未來假如因此取消的時候您的意思是說還沒有取消的部分還是說已經取消的部分假如像現在昨天之後情勢更加升溫之後您能做出任何的衝擊甚至停止之後的對於我們整個各行各業百工百業的一個衝擊的影響評估報告對百工百業我想這個\n467790\t487671\t一般的影響評估當然是有的那我直接跟部長就直接提這個聽起來因為像現在從昨天到今後期確實更加衝突性我相信陛下主委你也同意吧更加緊張跟委員報告當然中國大陸一直對我們經濟脅迫這也是事實\n488593\t507712\t不過我們相關部會都做好的各種的準備我們在國安的思考一定是做最壞的打算好我知道任何的一個政府包括馬政府此起一定是做最壞的打算那一定是做最充足的準備一定是盡力來去溝通啦我相信在座三位一定都認同那我要直接回答就是說\n508453\t528595\t就是像剛才所提到的這個答案並沒有明確的回覆我到底有沒有做好假如像昨天之後到現在未來那ECFA如果因此而到時候停止之後那影響百工百業的衝擊報告目前來講經濟部是不是有做那因為有做的話是不是可以公開的也讓社會各界百工百業各種產業來做因應\n531584\t552016\t我們在去年的時候當ECFA取消的部分我們就已經有公告來協助這些受ECFA影響的廠商如何協助他們來轉移市場這個是我們在去年就已經開始做了\n552944\t577362\t好那沒關係那我這樣子聽起來大致上啊就是說如果說要衝擊的廠商的話當然一定是要協助啦那其實在任何的一個全球的一個就是分工之下啦產業鏈的這種互動之下其實本來就是每一個市場都應該是要去做溝通啦還能夠讓我們的這個企業界產業界都能夠去做任何形式的一個評估那我相信這個絕對會是比較理想正確\n578163\t601874\t所以現在聽起來的話,是沒有做相關,如果因為像昨天發表台灣之後,那個法,未來如果因此而喊停的時候,整體的一個評估報告,所以說許多的產業受到影響的這些項目來講,他們並沒有辦法因此來提早做運營。那在這裡是本席能夠請經濟部,能夠做相關的評估報告、衝擊報告之後,甚至能夠在公開讓社會各界提早做運營。\n604019\t627868\t剛剛部長已經說過了我們之前我們有做了相關的因應現在我們做全球的佈局那我們要提醒中國的經濟下行他現在的經濟狀況是極端的不好他做任何的變動如果對他的經濟產生更劇烈的變化而往下更走的話也不是他樂意看到的當然也不是全世界樂意看到的所以不要做不需要做這樣的我們有我們自己\n629410\t640630\t所以說,像剛才所提到的話,甚至假如未來來講,因為未來情勢更加緊張的時候,全部面的停止的時候,目前來講人評不高沒有做,但是也不宜做嗎?\n641533\t666279\t我們保障自己的安全怎麼會是情勢越加緊張不是啊 那要輔導轉型輔導跟其他的國家來去做連結相關的一個輔導措施甚至補貼措施過去馬英國時期的時候其實都有做相關的評估報告跟研究現在國內好幾位像委員這樣身強體壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收 被對方所利用等一下 你這句話我要反駁我另外被吸收喔我不是說你 我說現役軍人\n667250\t686412\t他是很強壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收對對方所利用我們當然要有一個防制的精神如果能夠做有效的防制我們是加強自己的能力我要跟院長講就是說今天來講各個國家在任何一個地方他們在做這種侵犯工作我想實在話本席絕對是站在國家安全的立場\n687413\t714892\t這個覺得大家全民都是站在國家安全立場如果個人因為他被吸收或是有跟任何國家這樣子有任何成為間諜的一個情況的話當然是絕不容忍但是但是回頭來講那這個一個法案未來來講因為賴清德總統昨天的發表通關之後後面的情勢更加緊張評估報告如果是沒有做衝擊報告沒有做還是有請經濟部會來做的之後來做因應這樣子是否可以我們昨天在開會的時候就已經要求各部會\n715916\t742858\t要把總統的才智要專案的執行要定期的考核而且限期的完成必要修法就修法該立法就立法該訂定行動計畫就訂定行動計畫這個已經在處理當中了昨天那一個資料我看了十次了所以說經濟部包括在於這個經濟重啟確實沒有相關的一個因應當然這個評估包括也不是在一個簡短的談話中可以去提到的所以說請這個部長這邊做相關的評估\n744779\t756251\t還要讓社會大眾提早去做了解這樣是否可行就經濟的部分我想我們經濟部已經在內部作業我們也根據各個署各個處\n760356\t785083\t那麼請他們提出來對我們在中國的這些台商會產生什麼影響然後在台灣的業者他們如果是輸出到中國的部分那可能會碰到什麼樣的問題我們都給予分析然後再來輔導我們台灣的廠商在未來如何因應這樣的一個可能產生的變異\n786463\t814284\t沒關係那大致上就是這一個整個過程中對於兩岸經貿剛才院長有提到也希望能夠務實的來去做互動交流那甚至能夠保護台山那我想直接請教在過去到今年520到現在有針對兩岸的議題產業的議題包括FA相關項目的議題有作為任何一次經貿上面的談判或是聯繫嗎\n816274\t837381\t跟對方的談判我想主動權都不是在我們一方他跟我們的接觸我們請陸委會就知道我們光是希望兩小兩會就光光談判對方就是遲遲不願意他就是不願意用談判的方式他不願意把我們放在一個對等尊嚴的方式不願意跟我們做健康有序的接觸\n838281\t858489\t這是對方的問題那個我就不跟你為難啦我直接直接講就是說像陸委會跟其實兩岸之間他重申紀不應該是斷掉的也不應該是差別拔線的我們傳很多東西他從來就沒有告訴我們我從此之間那幫老師說都一定應該有一個正常的互動啦那我坦白講\n859810\t872902\t這個部分過去馬英九執政了8年那有辦法在不管是美國或包括中國大陸彼此之間讓我們許多的產業跟台商還能有一些經濟方面的一個成長\n873752\t895818\t那今天全球布局不管是進出或來講不能過度依賴但是他能夠在全球的市場下在台灣能夠許多產業扮演角色這是重要的那我直接接著就就好了那軍事審判法的部分那我們顧立雄顧部長那這個部分算不算複批部長主委謝謝\n900987\t925656\t部長早上已經有答過這是一個重新的開機截然不同的制度老郭部長是那這樣子軍事審判法重新再起那你覺得這個部分跟你過去所發表的言論跟價值與立場有沒有著實經過的感覺我今天早上已經跟王委員做過說明\n927011\t944413\t我的立場沒有,我的見解都沒有任何的改變就是說我認為過去的軍事審判有違反憲法的意志那也沒有辦法獲得人民的信賴所以我現在會盡個人最大的努力來確保我們重新打造的軍事審判\n945245\t966712\t是會跟過去的制度是不一樣的如果說你認為當初的沒有辦法來做客觀的審判的情況之下那當初在提出修正案以及報告案在倡稿的廢除的部分那為什麼當初你不用倡稿來去做修正?\n968287\t984715\t我想就是當我已經講了就是當時的這個軍事審判按照道爾干的憲法的意旨比如說軍法官他就認為他沒有符合身份保障所以他不是一個真正的法官所以我們在這個部分就要確保這個\n986283\t1004048\t以後的這個軍事審判是一個這個軍法官是獲得有一個獨立性獲得身份保障所以我會說我們要定軍法官人事條例我們要定軍事法院組織法那為什麼當初你在提倡這個議題的時候不是用這個角度\n1004793\t1021539\t我沒有表示說沒有用這個角度我一直在主張軍事審判法相關的違憲的地方所以我們指出這些違憲的地方如果沒有辦法補這些破洞的話那就這一個部分我們認為\n1023208\t1036214\t就應該要回到這個民事的審判來所以說當初你認為應該回到民事的審判但是你當了部長之後你反而會認為又要再回覆嗎但是我跟委員做一個\n1037470\t1060130\t說明,你讓我有機會稍微說明一下但是,軍事審判法當時的第一條它仍然維持暫時要進行軍事審判所以在暫時仍然維持軍事審判的一個情況之下11年來平時如果沒有重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度暫時是不可能會憑空所以你這個時候暫時做運營嗎?\n1062432\t1077670\t我們國防部本來就是要為平戰轉換做準備那為什麼在過去我們所有國防部的人都是為了平戰轉換在做準備啊對那為什麼在去年跟過去前八年的時候沒有提出\n1079795\t1093693\t那所以說在過去的時候沒有提出而在賴總統昨天的這個發表講話之後就提出那這個部分那過去的九年的期間那到底這樣的軍事審判法被怎麼定義\n1094993\t1119496\t就我理解我們過去的法律師一直以來都在研究就是說平時這個審判的制度軍事審判的制度要如何能夠維繫他的能量的運作所以過去的九年的成果是如何因為你也擔任過許多重要的職務所以過去的九年的話其實完全都沒有對這個方面提出要求現在就是因應戰死\n1121123\t1138458\t我想我們國防部在做這個相關的平戰轉換做所有的戰備任務都是在為平戰轉換做準備我們的國防部存在的價值就是隨時做好這個備戰的準備我們的戰訓本部我們相關的訓練我們相關裝備的獲得也是都是如此那麼包括這個\n1146964\t1164314\t軍事審判這個課題也是如此所以我認為如果說新的軍事審判他能夠達到一個公平審判的原則跟正當法律程序的原則那麼這樣子重新開機的一個軍事審判他就可以來救\n1165654\t1194152\t現役軍人犯執運人職務上司罪這個部分來進行我想這一個部分應該是跟我的過去的見解沒有任何的一個不一致的地方今天對於這一個軍事懲判法這個當然未來我們也是會看你們提出的版本的內容但是我都想你剛才所提到的如果說你那時候處理上軍事懲判的過程中到底是否公正我坦白講這個是人的問題\n1195134\t1211375\t那當然說可以用條文或是規定來去把這個降到最低可是同樣的你可能還是要記得目前來講全國民眾對於許多的司法介入還甚至許多的相關的這種的外力的介入那影響到各種的判決\n1212156\t1224547\t不管在司法上其實人民對於整體司法改革他還是有很大的一個不信任所以說今天來講在提出軍事審判法的一個調整的時候是不是真的能夠解決這個問題那同時過去九年為什麼不提\n1227609\t1255948\t那我在當初在爭議這個事情的時候為什麼不提而是現在提那因應暫時是需要那沒關係這個就如你所說那我想要接著請教一下那外交部長林昭榮林部長那他也在今天的出席名單那部長有在嗎今天是次長代理那次長在那林昭榮部長是有在這個名單上面那今天請教時間暫停特別跟郵委員報告一下外交部長今天要接待外賓有遞請假單\n1263607\t1284977\t我們直接看秀的這個提案大家直接有提到林佳龍委員現在的部長過去也有提出軍事審判法第一條的修正那那個都是在黃中秋事件那時候所提出的那部長如果有在的話大家有想請教一下部長他的看法以及他現在對於這個案子的時候他是持什麼樣的一個角度那就不用請次長回答,謝謝\n1286394\t1299934\tOK 那接著就不用請市長回答啦這是曾哲琳教授部長本人他所提案來詢問的部分那我們直接來再問一些接著民生大家非常關心的這個五一勞動節\n1301576\t1317323\t那是不是能夠放假這個其實過去能夠大家一直在討論院長一定也有評估過那市長請那想請教那個洪森漢部長要不要上來那想請教一下那這個議題那大家其實許多的\n1318183\t1341715\t五一勞動節勞工放假但是許多的公務人員或者是包括教育人員他們沒有放假所以就會變成帶小孩就會有出現這個問題那大家都一直在討論也一直在期待五一勞動節能放假那今天院長要不要跟大家宣布一下是不是今年的五一勞動節大家可以放假也讓造福大家這些許多的各行各業的家長依照現在紀念日\n1342415\t1359727\t及節日施行辦法當初在決定的時候在審定的時候有一個附帶決議他就說國定的假日加起來要115到116天那我們現在是達到這個上限當然時空是不一樣的社會環境會不好我本來就有預期你會這麼回覆\n1361008\t1379026\t時空會不同條件會不同如果社會大家認為有一天的放假會讓社會等大家在效率等等會提高而且變動會最少我們會願意聽聽大家的意見這個已經討論了相當多年了因為這個討論相當多年但是我們總是期待今年能夠有一個不一樣的結果\n1379306\t1402091\t因為這個假日是勞工放 本來就是要感謝勞工 人事長說明一下我知道 那我想知道的答案就是今年可不可以放所以說那個相關的建議其實院長都知道所以我是想要直接就教院長今年的五一勞動節會不會做一個放假的宣示我們公布的行事曆裡面是沒有放假的那明年的話會不會往這個方向放\n1403106\t1430967\t我們明年的話會不會宣示希望往五一勞動節的方向能夠放假的部分來努力這個我想包括人事長因為有院長的宣示會比較有效勞動部或人事總署的部分他們還是沒有辦法代表行政院的態度我們可以做幕僚分析啦事實上以勞動節來講的話現在是勞工放假那一天他們也可以利用那個\n1431647\t1461277\t那其實就最主要是家長他們其實還是會遇到小孩子的問題那需要帶所以說有沒有可能能夠往五一勞動節作為放假日的方向來努力請部長說明一下吳聰說明一下現在五一勞動節目前適用勞基法的勞工是無放假的我勞工畢竟出身的對所以我說就勞工本身的勞務所管的勞務本身現在是有放假的部長你還是沒有辦法回答五一勞動節到底有沒有可能來做放假日\n1467198\t1490384\t在實施週休二日之後其實我們對整個放假的制度已經在一個制度化裡面去運行了也運行這麼多年所以並沒有所謂要再回復到那個時代的幾天放假的問題但是我們達到一百一十五、一百一十六這當然可以討論社會只要認為變動最小、成本最小而且符合全國一致性今年跟明年還是沒有答案\n1491204\t1509656\t我們可以討論,如果他變動小、成本小、全國一致性大家都能夠有共識,我們希望能夠討論大家的期待當然是希望放假但沒關係啦,我們直接來接個就教啦我們跟委員多多的請教來接個就教,就是預算中心的報告指出台電公司預計114年度發電燃料費加113年度減少351.46億,減幅7.96\n1516860\t1535188\t目前來講台電給出的預算顯示發電燃料成本是下降的我想直接就叫院長在目前來講我們知道很多能源配比的問題當然部長也來陪同今年有沒有可能不要調漲電價\n1536889\t1554808\t台電在惡霧戰爭之前在那個時候費用漲價很多但現在有稍微平緩但是我們現在考慮他的財政的結構是因為他過去幾年用了很多的補貼的需求所以他付出了很多對其他事業的這個補貼那今年的話有沒有可能能夠不要調漲\n1558012\t1581665\t它是虧損的,我們如果先把它的產業...過去也補了兩千億,也補了五百億那在今年那麼多產業行業受到影響今年有沒有可能能夠基於穩定物價照顧民生而今年不要調漲,或者是不往調漲的方向邁進報告委員,我們過去因為戰爭或者材料調漲\n1583311\t1598734\t我們大概吸收了六千億所以事實上過去的撥補並沒有那麼高所以他現在還存有這些東西部長我直接跟您請教這些我其實都理解但是我們會來努力但是條價與否這個是由電價省委員他們來決定的\n1609016\t1633226\t所以我們會努力我們台電自己會努力部長我知道你也努力了那我直接提一下上次其實你也提到一句這個部分院長也是很重要的因素我就不把原話再翻一次那希望院長能夠往穩定物價不調漲的方式來努力穩定物價反應成本還有這個節約能源將來必須使用者付費這個都是原則但是這個原則只會交到電價審議委員會\n1635054\t1657647\t去做審議 我知道 可是我們在這裡決定好 沒關係 所以上次有提到院長你當演員很重要的角色那原話我不說好不好 那我直接再接著就叫這個醫護人員相關這個護理人員啊 那目前來講在我們看到白班津貼研擬一年 那目前的進展\n1658447\t1668115\t還有社會各界也都在期待那想就教一下這個白板津貼未來的一個發布跟性質補貼那是有一個宣示或是有一個回應\n1677999\t1704609\t法務委員我們護理人員的切口我們有推動十二項策略從他的教考信用增加的那個直接回津貼的部分就可以了直接回相關護理人員津貼的部分未來的方向為何就好津貼的部分我們當然是除了創造更好的工作環境以外在待遇方面我們特別很清楚的來增加\n1705918\t1720724\t那個護理會特別是急重症跟一般急症病房我們最近昨天才通過醫院的一個總額的協商我們將會增加的大概42億來增加護理會我相信這個對於那個\n1723107\t1743445\t護理的一個待遇會增加很多這樣可以喔那最主要是護理的也非常的辛苦啊那所以說希望說在中央政府部分能夠重視他們非常辛苦的一個內容也穩定他們這個職場場域他們能夠盡可能能夠減少流動那同時再補充之前急診護理就是醫務超載那轉院困難\n1746167\t1774167\t那發生了許多悲劇啊那希望未來在部內這邊也能夠持續針對目前來講急診室病房病床數不足的一個問題還來去做一個改善有沒有一個簡短的回應是的除了改善各個醫事人員的工作環境增加應有急重症的醫事人員的津貼以外我們在對針對病人方面特別是在急診跟病床急診病床的一個調配\n1775131\t1792194\t我們當然也請院方能夠做靈活的調併那部長我是希望說在這個許多患者他們因為病床患者的家屬是心急如焚那這個問題是一定要特別的重視我們會全力以赴來解決這個問題\n1793055\t1806951\t那最後就是剛才院長有提到團結那我在想這個團結在過去的一年到今年我們是看到的是許多的撕裂那如果說在許多的重大議題\n1808032\t1828419\t那在行政院法扮演一個重要的角色各位應該是要能夠積極主動的來讓朝野之間能夠做調和我相信重新思考應該能夠有比較好的結果啦那不然就不會發生這個大惡霸那我們都要堅定的不要讓貧窮跟戰爭留給下一代我們需要是和平發展才是真正團結謝謝\n1837007\t1838143\t報議會我們本日排定\n","txt":"謝謝院長 那有請行政院長麻煩請卓院長再度備選\n那其實我們都希望這整個國家的發展跟繁榮經濟的發展都是在一個穩定的一個情況跟氛圍之下可以逐漸進步那我們也覺得像現在來講確實\n還更像是往這個兵凶戰危的這個這個過程在越去緊張那剛才稍早我們王世堅王委員有送院長一個大大的算盤那希望這個算盤他不僅是代表的賴政府還是不是精打細算那我們更是要提醒那許多重要的政策重要的決策那如一算盤不能打錯\n那所以這個部分的話我們都希望是看到穩定而不要看到不穩定那許多的委員其實都是非常擔憂因為是全民都在擔憂那延續剛才許多委員所提到的\n那在我們看到目前來講在昨天賴清德總統發表談話之後那其實我相信是全民焦慮全民恐慌那因為這也往這個更加還是不是走向戰爭的這個過程那其實大家都是共同擔憂那我想請教一下院長你也會擔憂會發生戰事嗎\n我更擔憂的是如果我們沒有自我防衛的能力我們將沒有辦法保障自己的安全所以昨天總統的才事之後不見得像委員所說的大家都擔憂而是那些想對台灣要心魔不軌的人會擔憂但要保護台灣的人是得到一個最好的總統的支持跟政策上的支持我想這個是\n造成我們內部更團結的開始只要我們團結我們就不會分裂我們不分裂敵人就不會加倍我坦白說如果院長剛才所講我是覺得這個給全民扣了個大帽子全民擔憂的是是不是發生戰爭是不是孩子上戰場那擔憂的人的話他就是好像聽你所說變成是出賣國家\n但是如果說感到興奮的那這樣子他們是在期待戰爭嗎我覺得這樣子的說法全民要團結是這些對我們有企圖心的人要擔憂我相信你所指的不是指全民啦那同樣的我還是要在這裡也跟院長講這個目前來講的局勢確實是更加緊張啊\n那所以說其實像目前我想要就教一下院長在昨天所發表談話之後啊您覺得將來在不久後有沒有可能會走向戒嚴\n像什麼戒嚴我跟你說不可能台灣成為一個戒嚴的時代台灣經過全世界最長最長的戒嚴我們已經走過了那個時代在台灣民主高度發展的今天我們有健全的國會我們有健全的軍隊我們有健全的社會\n我們有高水準的民主素養的人民當然我們內部有一些問題但這個問題我們可以用民主的方式來解決民主所造成的問題但戒嚴應該不是總統手上的權力他會去使用的絕對不是\n好那記得你說的內容因為我們也不希望沒有在這個民意上的戒嚴但是在很多的政策與措施走向了實際上往戒嚴邁進那院長那我想要接著請教在目前這個發表談話之後那這個等同於是兩岸的緊張情勢絕對是更加升溫\n那在ECFA的部分目前有沒有認為將來會有因此停止的可能性\n我們一直在建立台灣自主的經濟安全只要我們夠我們自己經濟安全我們從各方面做有序而且是必要的調整那台灣會往世界走台灣會轉向轉向海洋轉向世界那台灣會把我們的生產我們的市場都放到世界各地去我們就不會受到某一個國家單獨對台灣太多台灣對他的依賴性所以我們正在往這個方向走也希望得到全民的支持\n我相信剛才你所講,台灣不可能是獨立在世界體系一環、經濟體系一環的任何一個環節,當然也不可能說在這個所謂的全球,我相信這是一個整體,當然不是說對於任何一個地方、任何一個城市也好、國家也好都不能夠過度依賴,\n但是你覺得像目前的一個情況有沒有可能未來ECFA是有可能因此而停止甚至有沒有做好各種的因應或衝擊的準備當我們面對一個不是法治的社會不是民主的國家它要對我們用任何的方式不是我們在這裡能夠預料得到的但我們是希望\n兩岸之間能夠健康有序的交流能夠尊嚴對等的交流凡是用談判用對話來代替現在這種互相不了解這個才是好的比方說那你說的好啊那我覺得其實經濟部長也可以起來\n那這個你剛才說以這個談判或是一個交流才說一個健康的方式來進行那我想請教目前來講針對經貿議題在兩岸有沒有做任何形式的交流尤其是在去年賴總統賴內閣就是你的內閣上任之後有沒有做各種形式的交流或是談判我們在很多的方式經濟部等一下陸委會我們都可以談一下\n報告委員 我想我們在上任以來我們碰到的是中國對ECFA的部分取消我們當然要提早因應 因為它的不確定性太高所以我們希望能夠協助沒有ECFA的措施之後的業者\n能夠轉移市場到除了這個中國以外的市場這第一個第二個我們協助他能夠提升避開這個中國的大量的這個製造因為中國用補貼的這個方式造成我們到我們的台商到中國去製造的時候面臨到更大的這個傷害所以我們要幫助在台灣生產的這些廠商過去他銷給中國的我們都完全來輔導他們\n能夠到這個中國以外的市場來進行他們這個生意的這個持續下去好那我就直接就教部長那在目前來講針對EXPA的這種情況那有沒有做任何的一個衝擊影響評估相關的報告\n未來假如因此取消的時候您的意思是說還沒有取消的部分還是說已經取消的部分假如像現在昨天之後情勢更加升溫之後您能做出任何的衝擊甚至停止之後的對於我們整個各行各業百工百業的一個衝擊的影響評估報告對百工百業我想這個\n一般的影響評估當然是有的那我直接跟部長就直接提這個聽起來因為像現在從昨天到今後期確實更加衝突性我相信陛下主委你也同意吧更加緊張跟委員報告當然中國大陸一直對我們經濟脅迫這也是事實\n不過我們相關部會都做好的各種的準備我們在國安的思考一定是做最壞的打算好我知道任何的一個政府包括馬政府此起一定是做最壞的打算那一定是做最充足的準備一定是盡力來去溝通啦我相信在座三位一定都認同那我要直接回答就是說\n就是像剛才所提到的這個答案並沒有明確的回覆我到底有沒有做好假如像昨天之後到現在未來那ECFA如果因此而到時候停止之後那影響百工百業的衝擊報告目前來講經濟部是不是有做那因為有做的話是不是可以公開的也讓社會各界百工百業各種產業來做因應\n我們在去年的時候當ECFA取消的部分我們就已經有公告來協助這些受ECFA影響的廠商如何協助他們來轉移市場這個是我們在去年就已經開始做了\n好那沒關係那我這樣子聽起來大致上啊就是說如果說要衝擊的廠商的話當然一定是要協助啦那其實在任何的一個全球的一個就是分工之下啦產業鏈的這種互動之下其實本來就是每一個市場都應該是要去做溝通啦還能夠讓我們的這個企業界產業界都能夠去做任何形式的一個評估那我相信這個絕對會是比較理想正確\n所以現在聽起來的話,是沒有做相關,如果因為像昨天發表台灣之後,那個法,未來如果因此而喊停的時候,整體的一個評估報告,所以說許多的產業受到影響的這些項目來講,他們並沒有辦法因此來提早做運營。那在這裡是本席能夠請經濟部,能夠做相關的評估報告、衝擊報告之後,甚至能夠在公開讓社會各界提早做運營。\n剛剛部長已經說過了我們之前我們有做了相關的因應現在我們做全球的佈局那我們要提醒中國的經濟下行他現在的經濟狀況是極端的不好他做任何的變動如果對他的經濟產生更劇烈的變化而往下更走的話也不是他樂意看到的當然也不是全世界樂意看到的所以不要做不需要做這樣的我們有我們自己\n所以說,像剛才所提到的話,甚至假如未來來講,因為未來情勢更加緊張的時候,全部面的停止的時候,目前來講人評不高沒有做,但是也不宜做嗎?\n我們保障自己的安全怎麼會是情勢越加緊張不是啊 那要輔導轉型輔導跟其他的國家來去做連結相關的一個輔導措施甚至補貼措施過去馬英國時期的時候其實都有做相關的評估報告跟研究現在國內好幾位像委員這樣身強體壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收 被對方所利用等一下 你這句話我要反駁我另外被吸收喔我不是說你 我說現役軍人\n他是很強壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收對對方所利用我們當然要有一個防制的精神如果能夠做有效的防制我們是加強自己的能力我要跟院長講就是說今天來講各個國家在任何一個地方他們在做這種侵犯工作我想實在話本席絕對是站在國家安全的立場\n這個覺得大家全民都是站在國家安全立場如果個人因為他被吸收或是有跟任何國家這樣子有任何成為間諜的一個情況的話當然是絕不容忍但是但是回頭來講那這個一個法案未來來講因為賴清德總統昨天的發表通關之後後面的情勢更加緊張評估報告如果是沒有做衝擊報告沒有做還是有請經濟部會來做的之後來做因應這樣子是否可以我們昨天在開會的時候就已經要求各部會\n要把總統的才智要專案的執行要定期的考核而且限期的完成必要修法就修法該立法就立法該訂定行動計畫就訂定行動計畫這個已經在處理當中了昨天那一個資料我看了十次了所以說經濟部包括在於這個經濟重啟確實沒有相關的一個因應當然這個評估包括也不是在一個簡短的談話中可以去提到的所以說請這個部長這邊做相關的評估\n還要讓社會大眾提早去做了解這樣是否可行就經濟的部分我想我們經濟部已經在內部作業我們也根據各個署各個處\n那麼請他們提出來對我們在中國的這些台商會產生什麼影響然後在台灣的業者他們如果是輸出到中國的部分那可能會碰到什麼樣的問題我們都給予分析然後再來輔導我們台灣的廠商在未來如何因應這樣的一個可能產生的變異\n沒關係那大致上就是這一個整個過程中對於兩岸經貿剛才院長有提到也希望能夠務實的來去做互動交流那甚至能夠保護台山那我想直接請教在過去到今年520到現在有針對兩岸的議題產業的議題包括FA相關項目的議題有作為任何一次經貿上面的談判或是聯繫嗎\n跟對方的談判我想主動權都不是在我們一方他跟我們的接觸我們請陸委會就知道我們光是希望兩小兩會就光光談判對方就是遲遲不願意他就是不願意用談判的方式他不願意把我們放在一個對等尊嚴的方式不願意跟我們做健康有序的接觸\n這是對方的問題那個我就不跟你為難啦我直接直接講就是說像陸委會跟其實兩岸之間他重申紀不應該是斷掉的也不應該是差別拔線的我們傳很多東西他從來就沒有告訴我們我從此之間那幫老師說都一定應該有一個正常的互動啦那我坦白講\n這個部分過去馬英九執政了8年那有辦法在不管是美國或包括中國大陸彼此之間讓我們許多的產業跟台商還能有一些經濟方面的一個成長\n那今天全球布局不管是進出或來講不能過度依賴但是他能夠在全球的市場下在台灣能夠許多產業扮演角色這是重要的那我直接接著就就好了那軍事審判法的部分那我們顧立雄顧部長那這個部分算不算複批部長主委謝謝\n部長早上已經有答過這是一個重新的開機截然不同的制度老郭部長是那這樣子軍事審判法重新再起那你覺得這個部分跟你過去所發表的言論跟價值與立場有沒有著實經過的感覺我今天早上已經跟王委員做過說明\n我的立場沒有,我的見解都沒有任何的改變就是說我認為過去的軍事審判有違反憲法的意志那也沒有辦法獲得人民的信賴所以我現在會盡個人最大的努力來確保我們重新打造的軍事審判\n是會跟過去的制度是不一樣的如果說你認為當初的沒有辦法來做客觀的審判的情況之下那當初在提出修正案以及報告案在倡稿的廢除的部分那為什麼當初你不用倡稿來去做修正?\n我想就是當我已經講了就是當時的這個軍事審判按照道爾干的憲法的意旨比如說軍法官他就認為他沒有符合身份保障所以他不是一個真正的法官所以我們在這個部分就要確保這個\n以後的這個軍事審判是一個這個軍法官是獲得有一個獨立性獲得身份保障所以我會說我們要定軍法官人事條例我們要定軍事法院組織法那為什麼當初你在提倡這個議題的時候不是用這個角度\n我沒有表示說沒有用這個角度我一直在主張軍事審判法相關的違憲的地方所以我們指出這些違憲的地方如果沒有辦法補這些破洞的話那就這一個部分我們認為\n就應該要回到這個民事的審判來所以說當初你認為應該回到民事的審判但是你當了部長之後你反而會認為又要再回覆嗎但是我跟委員做一個\n說明,你讓我有機會稍微說明一下但是,軍事審判法當時的第一條它仍然維持暫時要進行軍事審判所以在暫時仍然維持軍事審判的一個情況之下11年來平時如果沒有重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度暫時是不可能會憑空所以你這個時候暫時做運營嗎?\n我們國防部本來就是要為平戰轉換做準備那為什麼在過去我們所有國防部的人都是為了平戰轉換在做準備啊對那為什麼在去年跟過去前八年的時候沒有提出\n那所以說在過去的時候沒有提出而在賴總統昨天的這個發表講話之後就提出那這個部分那過去的九年的期間那到底這樣的軍事審判法被怎麼定義\n就我理解我們過去的法律師一直以來都在研究就是說平時這個審判的制度軍事審判的制度要如何能夠維繫他的能量的運作所以過去的九年的成果是如何因為你也擔任過許多重要的職務所以過去的九年的話其實完全都沒有對這個方面提出要求現在就是因應戰死\n我想我們國防部在做這個相關的平戰轉換做所有的戰備任務都是在為平戰轉換做準備我們的國防部存在的價值就是隨時做好這個備戰的準備我們的戰訓本部我們相關的訓練我們相關裝備的獲得也是都是如此那麼包括這個\n軍事審判這個課題也是如此所以我認為如果說新的軍事審判他能夠達到一個公平審判的原則跟正當法律程序的原則那麼這樣子重新開機的一個軍事審判他就可以來救\n現役軍人犯執運人職務上司罪這個部分來進行我想這一個部分應該是跟我的過去的見解沒有任何的一個不一致的地方今天對於這一個軍事懲判法這個當然未來我們也是會看你們提出的版本的內容但是我都想你剛才所提到的如果說你那時候處理上軍事懲判的過程中到底是否公正我坦白講這個是人的問題\n那當然說可以用條文或是規定來去把這個降到最低可是同樣的你可能還是要記得目前來講全國民眾對於許多的司法介入還甚至許多的相關的這種的外力的介入那影響到各種的判決\n不管在司法上其實人民對於整體司法改革他還是有很大的一個不信任所以說今天來講在提出軍事審判法的一個調整的時候是不是真的能夠解決這個問題那同時過去九年為什麼不提\n那我在當初在爭議這個事情的時候為什麼不提而是現在提那因應暫時是需要那沒關係這個就如你所說那我想要接著請教一下那外交部長林昭榮林部長那他也在今天的出席名單那部長有在嗎今天是次長代理那次長在那林昭榮部長是有在這個名單上面那今天請教時間暫停特別跟郵委員報告一下外交部長今天要接待外賓有遞請假單\n我們直接看秀的這個提案大家直接有提到林佳龍委員現在的部長過去也有提出軍事審判法第一條的修正那那個都是在黃中秋事件那時候所提出的那部長如果有在的話大家有想請教一下部長他的看法以及他現在對於這個案子的時候他是持什麼樣的一個角度那就不用請次長回答,謝謝\nOK 那接著就不用請市長回答啦這是曾哲琳教授部長本人他所提案來詢問的部分那我們直接來再問一些接著民生大家非常關心的這個五一勞動節\n那是不是能夠放假這個其實過去能夠大家一直在討論院長一定也有評估過那市長請那想請教那個洪森漢部長要不要上來那想請教一下那這個議題那大家其實許多的\n五一勞動節勞工放假但是許多的公務人員或者是包括教育人員他們沒有放假所以就會變成帶小孩就會有出現這個問題那大家都一直在討論也一直在期待五一勞動節能放假那今天院長要不要跟大家宣布一下是不是今年的五一勞動節大家可以放假也讓造福大家這些許多的各行各業的家長依照現在紀念日\n及節日施行辦法當初在決定的時候在審定的時候有一個附帶決議他就說國定的假日加起來要115到116天那我們現在是達到這個上限當然時空是不一樣的社會環境會不好我本來就有預期你會這麼回覆\n時空會不同條件會不同如果社會大家認為有一天的放假會讓社會等大家在效率等等會提高而且變動會最少我們會願意聽聽大家的意見這個已經討論了相當多年了因為這個討論相當多年但是我們總是期待今年能夠有一個不一樣的結果\n因為這個假日是勞工放 本來就是要感謝勞工 人事長說明一下我知道 那我想知道的答案就是今年可不可以放所以說那個相關的建議其實院長都知道所以我是想要直接就教院長今年的五一勞動節會不會做一個放假的宣示我們公布的行事曆裡面是沒有放假的那明年的話會不會往這個方向放\n我們明年的話會不會宣示希望往五一勞動節的方向能夠放假的部分來努力這個我想包括人事長因為有院長的宣示會比較有效勞動部或人事總署的部分他們還是沒有辦法代表行政院的態度我們可以做幕僚分析啦事實上以勞動節來講的話現在是勞工放假那一天他們也可以利用那個\n那其實就最主要是家長他們其實還是會遇到小孩子的問題那需要帶所以說有沒有可能能夠往五一勞動節作為放假日的方向來努力請部長說明一下吳聰說明一下現在五一勞動節目前適用勞基法的勞工是無放假的我勞工畢竟出身的對所以我說就勞工本身的勞務所管的勞務本身現在是有放假的部長你還是沒有辦法回答五一勞動節到底有沒有可能來做放假日\n在實施週休二日之後其實我們對整個放假的制度已經在一個制度化裡面去運行了也運行這麼多年所以並沒有所謂要再回復到那個時代的幾天放假的問題但是我們達到一百一十五、一百一十六這當然可以討論社會只要認為變動最小、成本最小而且符合全國一致性今年跟明年還是沒有答案\n我們可以討論,如果他變動小、成本小、全國一致性大家都能夠有共識,我們希望能夠討論大家的期待當然是希望放假但沒關係啦,我們直接來接個就教啦我們跟委員多多的請教來接個就教,就是預算中心的報告指出台電公司預計114年度發電燃料費加113年度減少351.46億,減幅7.96\n目前來講台電給出的預算顯示發電燃料成本是下降的我想直接就叫院長在目前來講我們知道很多能源配比的問題當然部長也來陪同今年有沒有可能不要調漲電價\n台電在惡霧戰爭之前在那個時候費用漲價很多但現在有稍微平緩但是我們現在考慮他的財政的結構是因為他過去幾年用了很多的補貼的需求所以他付出了很多對其他事業的這個補貼那今年的話有沒有可能能夠不要調漲\n它是虧損的,我們如果先把它的產業...過去也補了兩千億,也補了五百億那在今年那麼多產業行業受到影響今年有沒有可能能夠基於穩定物價照顧民生而今年不要調漲,或者是不往調漲的方向邁進報告委員,我們過去因為戰爭或者材料調漲\n我們大概吸收了六千億所以事實上過去的撥補並沒有那麼高所以他現在還存有這些東西部長我直接跟您請教這些我其實都理解但是我們會來努力但是條價與否這個是由電價省委員他們來決定的\n所以我們會努力我們台電自己會努力部長我知道你也努力了那我直接提一下上次其實你也提到一句這個部分院長也是很重要的因素我就不把原話再翻一次那希望院長能夠往穩定物價不調漲的方式來努力穩定物價反應成本還有這個節約能源將來必須使用者付費這個都是原則但是這個原則只會交到電價審議委員會\n去做審議 我知道 可是我們在這裡決定好 沒關係 所以上次有提到院長你當演員很重要的角色那原話我不說好不好 那我直接再接著就叫這個醫護人員相關這個護理人員啊 那目前來講在我們看到白班津貼研擬一年 那目前的進展\n還有社會各界也都在期待那想就教一下這個白板津貼未來的一個發布跟性質補貼那是有一個宣示或是有一個回應\n法務委員我們護理人員的切口我們有推動十二項策略從他的教考信用增加的那個直接回津貼的部分就可以了直接回相關護理人員津貼的部分未來的方向為何就好津貼的部分我們當然是除了創造更好的工作環境以外在待遇方面我們特別很清楚的來增加\n那個護理會特別是急重症跟一般急症病房我們最近昨天才通過醫院的一個總額的協商我們將會增加的大概42億來增加護理會我相信這個對於那個\n護理的一個待遇會增加很多這樣可以喔那最主要是護理的也非常的辛苦啊那所以說希望說在中央政府部分能夠重視他們非常辛苦的一個內容也穩定他們這個職場場域他們能夠盡可能能夠減少流動那同時再補充之前急診護理就是醫務超載那轉院困難\n那發生了許多悲劇啊那希望未來在部內這邊也能夠持續針對目前來講急診室病房病床數不足的一個問題還來去做一個改善有沒有一個簡短的回應是的除了改善各個醫事人員的工作環境增加應有急重症的醫事人員的津貼以外我們在對針對病人方面特別是在急診跟病床急診病床的一個調配\n我們當然也請院方能夠做靈活的調併那部長我是希望說在這個許多患者他們因為病床患者的家屬是心急如焚那這個問題是一定要特別的重視我們會全力以赴來解決這個問題\n那最後就是剛才院長有提到團結那我在想這個團結在過去的一年到今年我們是看到的是許多的撕裂那如果說在許多的重大議題\n那在行政院法扮演一個重要的角色各位應該是要能夠積極主動的來讓朝野之間能夠做調和我相信重新思考應該能夠有比較好的結果啦那不然就不會發生這個大惡霸那我們都要堅定的不要讓貧窮跟戰爭留給下一代我們需要是和平發展才是真正團結謝謝\n報議會我們本日排定\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.478 --> 00:08.351\n謝謝院長那有請行政院長麻煩請卓院長再度備選\n\n00:20.112 --> 00:34.756\n那其實我們都希望這整個國家的發展跟繁榮經濟的發展都是在一個穩定的一個情況跟氛圍之下可以逐漸進步那我們也覺得像現在來講確實\n\n00:36.936 --> 01:01.791\n還更像是往這個兵凶戰危的這個這個過程在越去緊張那剛才稍早我們王世堅王委員有送院長一個大大的算盤那希望這個算盤他不僅是代表的賴政府還是不是精打細算那我們更是要提醒那許多重要的政策重要的決策那如一算盤不能打錯\n\n01:02.708 --> 01:16.228\n那所以這個部分的話我們都希望是看到穩定而不要看到不穩定那許多的委員其實都是非常擔憂因為是全民都在擔憂那延續剛才許多委員所提到的\n\n01:16.909 --> 01:39.850\n那在我們看到目前來講在昨天賴清德總統發表談話之後那其實我相信是全民焦慮全民恐慌那因為這也往這個更加還是不是走向戰爭的這個過程那其實大家都是共同擔憂那我想請教一下院長你也會擔憂會發生戰事嗎\n\n01:42.674 --> 02:06.876\n我更擔憂的是如果我們沒有自我防衛的能力我們將沒有辦法保障自己的安全所以昨天總統的才事之後不見得像委員所說的大家都擔憂而是那些想對台灣要心魔不軌的人會擔憂但要保護台灣的人是得到一個最好的總統的支持跟政策上的支持我想這個是\n\n02:08.698 --> 02:30.244\n造成我們內部更團結的開始只要我們團結我們就不會分裂我們不分裂敵人就不會加倍我坦白說如果院長剛才所講我是覺得這個給全民扣了個大帽子全民擔憂的是是不是發生戰爭是不是孩子上戰場那擔憂的人的話他就是好像聽你所說變成是出賣國家\n\n02:31.308 --> 02:51.846\n但是如果說感到興奮的那這樣子他們是在期待戰爭嗎我覺得這樣子的說法全民要團結是這些對我們有企圖心的人要擔憂我相信你所指的不是指全民啦那同樣的我還是要在這裡也跟院長講這個目前來講的局勢確實是更加緊張啊\n\n02:53.052 --> 03:06.725\n那所以說其實像目前我想要就教一下院長在昨天所發表談話之後啊您覺得將來在不久後有沒有可能會走向戒嚴\n\n03:08.380 --> 03:24.916\n像什麼戒嚴我跟你說不可能台灣成為一個戒嚴的時代台灣經過全世界最長最長的戒嚴我們已經走過了那個時代在台灣民主高度發展的今天我們有健全的國會我們有健全的軍隊我們有健全的社會\n\n03:25.556 --> 03:40.252\n我們有高水準的民主素養的人民當然我們內部有一些問題但這個問題我們可以用民主的方式來解決民主所造成的問題但戒嚴應該不是總統手上的權力他會去使用的絕對不是\n\n03:40.532 --> 04:04.004\n好那記得你說的內容因為我們也不希望沒有在這個民意上的戒嚴但是在很多的政策與措施走向了實際上往戒嚴邁進那院長那我想要接著請教在目前這個發表談話之後那這個等同於是兩岸的緊張情勢絕對是更加升溫\n\n04:04.924 --> 04:12.851\n那在ECFA的部分目前有沒有認為將來會有因此停止的可能性\n\n04:13.376 --> 04:40.838\n我們一直在建立台灣自主的經濟安全只要我們夠我們自己經濟安全我們從各方面做有序而且是必要的調整那台灣會往世界走台灣會轉向轉向海洋轉向世界那台灣會把我們的生產我們的市場都放到世界各地去我們就不會受到某一個國家單獨對台灣太多台灣對他的依賴性所以我們正在往這個方向走也希望得到全民的支持\n\n04:41.550 --> 05:01.213\n我相信剛才你所講,台灣不可能是獨立在世界體系一環、經濟體系一環的任何一個環節,當然也不可能說在這個所謂的全球,我相信這是一個整體,當然不是說對於任何一個地方、任何一個城市也好、國家也好都不能夠過度依賴,\n\n05:01.954 --> 05:22.911\n但是你覺得像目前的一個情況有沒有可能未來ECFA是有可能因此而停止甚至有沒有做好各種的因應或衝擊的準備當我們面對一個不是法治的社會不是民主的國家它要對我們用任何的方式不是我們在這裡能夠預料得到的但我們是希望\n\n05:24.040 --> 05:39.431\n兩岸之間能夠健康有序的交流能夠尊嚴對等的交流凡是用談判用對話來代替現在這種互相不了解這個才是好的比方說那你說的好啊那我覺得其實經濟部長也可以起來\n\n05:40.211 --> 06:08.497\n那這個你剛才說以這個談判或是一個交流才說一個健康的方式來進行那我想請教目前來講針對經貿議題在兩岸有沒有做任何形式的交流尤其是在去年賴總統賴內閣就是你的內閣上任之後有沒有做各種形式的交流或是談判我們在很多的方式經濟部等一下陸委會我們都可以談一下\n\n06:10.087 --> 06:31.857\n報告委員我想我們在上任以來我們碰到的是中國對ECFA的部分取消我們當然要提早因應因為它的不確定性太高所以我們希望能夠協助沒有ECFA的措施之後的業者\n\n06:33.123 --> 07:00.596\n能夠轉移市場到除了這個中國以外的市場這第一個第二個我們協助他能夠提升避開這個中國的大量的這個製造因為中國用補貼的這個方式造成我們到我們的台商到中國去製造的時候面臨到更大的這個傷害所以我們要幫助在台灣生產的這些廠商過去他銷給中國的我們都完全來輔導他們\n\n07:02.057 --> 07:17.781\n能夠到這個中國以外的市場來進行他們這個生意的這個持續下去好那我就直接就教部長那在目前來講針對EXPA的這種情況那有沒有做任何的一個衝擊影響評估相關的報告\n\n07:21.912 --> 07:45.765\n未來假如因此取消的時候您的意思是說還沒有取消的部分還是說已經取消的部分假如像現在昨天之後情勢更加升溫之後您能做出任何的衝擊甚至停止之後的對於我們整個各行各業百工百業的一個衝擊的影響評估報告對百工百業我想這個\n\n07:47.790 --> 08:07.671\n一般的影響評估當然是有的那我直接跟部長就直接提這個聽起來因為像現在從昨天到今後期確實更加衝突性我相信陛下主委你也同意吧更加緊張跟委員報告當然中國大陸一直對我們經濟脅迫這也是事實\n\n08:08.593 --> 08:27.712\n不過我們相關部會都做好的各種的準備我們在國安的思考一定是做最壞的打算好我知道任何的一個政府包括馬政府此起一定是做最壞的打算那一定是做最充足的準備一定是盡力來去溝通啦我相信在座三位一定都認同那我要直接回答就是說\n\n08:28.453 --> 08:48.595\n就是像剛才所提到的這個答案並沒有明確的回覆我到底有沒有做好假如像昨天之後到現在未來那ECFA如果因此而到時候停止之後那影響百工百業的衝擊報告目前來講經濟部是不是有做那因為有做的話是不是可以公開的也讓社會各界百工百業各種產業來做因應\n\n08:51.584 --> 09:12.016\n我們在去年的時候當ECFA取消的部分我們就已經有公告來協助這些受ECFA影響的廠商如何協助他們來轉移市場這個是我們在去年就已經開始做了\n\n09:12.944 --> 09:37.362\n好那沒關係那我這樣子聽起來大致上啊就是說如果說要衝擊的廠商的話當然一定是要協助啦那其實在任何的一個全球的一個就是分工之下啦產業鏈的這種互動之下其實本來就是每一個市場都應該是要去做溝通啦還能夠讓我們的這個企業界產業界都能夠去做任何形式的一個評估那我相信這個絕對會是比較理想正確\n\n09:38.163 --> 10:01.874\n所以現在聽起來的話,是沒有做相關,如果因為像昨天發表台灣之後,那個法,未來如果因此而喊停的時候,整體的一個評估報告,所以說許多的產業受到影響的這些項目來講,他們並沒有辦法因此來提早做運營。那在這裡是本席能夠請經濟部,能夠做相關的評估報告、衝擊報告之後,甚至能夠在公開讓社會各界提早做運營。\n\n10:04.019 --> 10:27.868\n剛剛部長已經說過了我們之前我們有做了相關的因應現在我們做全球的佈局那我們要提醒中國的經濟下行他現在的經濟狀況是極端的不好他做任何的變動如果對他的經濟產生更劇烈的變化而往下更走的話也不是他樂意看到的當然也不是全世界樂意看到的所以不要做不需要做這樣的我們有我們自己\n\n10:29.410 --> 10:40.630\n所以說,像剛才所提到的話,甚至假如未來來講,因為未來情勢更加緊張的時候,全部面的停止的時候,目前來講人評不高沒有做,但是也不宜做嗎?\n\n10:41.533 --> 11:06.279\n我們保障自己的安全怎麼會是情勢越加緊張不是啊那要輔導轉型輔導跟其他的國家來去做連結相關的一個輔導措施甚至補貼措施過去馬英國時期的時候其實都有做相關的評估報告跟研究現在國內好幾位像委員這樣身強體壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收被對方所利用等一下你這句話我要反駁我另外被吸收喔我不是說你我說現役軍人\n\n11:07.250 --> 11:26.412\n他是很強壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收對對方所利用我們當然要有一個防制的精神如果能夠做有效的防制我們是加強自己的能力我要跟院長講就是說今天來講各個國家在任何一個地方他們在做這種侵犯工作我想實在話本席絕對是站在國家安全的立場\n\n11:27.413 --> 11:54.892\n這個覺得大家全民都是站在國家安全立場如果個人因為他被吸收或是有跟任何國家這樣子有任何成為間諜的一個情況的話當然是絕不容忍但是但是回頭來講那這個一個法案未來來講因為賴清德總統昨天的發表通關之後後面的情勢更加緊張評估報告如果是沒有做衝擊報告沒有做還是有請經濟部會來做的之後來做因應這樣子是否可以我們昨天在開會的時候就已經要求各部會\n\n11:55.916 --> 12:22.858\n要把總統的才智要專案的執行要定期的考核而且限期的完成必要修法就修法該立法就立法該訂定行動計畫就訂定行動計畫這個已經在處理當中了昨天那一個資料我看了十次了所以說經濟部包括在於這個經濟重啟確實沒有相關的一個因應當然這個評估包括也不是在一個簡短的談話中可以去提到的所以說請這個部長這邊做相關的評估\n\n12:24.779 --> 12:36.251\n還要讓社會大眾提早去做了解這樣是否可行就經濟的部分我想我們經濟部已經在內部作業我們也根據各個署各個處\n\n12:40.356 --> 13:05.083\n那麼請他們提出來對我們在中國的這些台商會產生什麼影響然後在台灣的業者他們如果是輸出到中國的部分那可能會碰到什麼樣的問題我們都給予分析然後再來輔導我們台灣的廠商在未來如何因應這樣的一個可能產生的變異\n\n13:06.463 --> 13:34.284\n沒關係那大致上就是這一個整個過程中對於兩岸經貿剛才院長有提到也希望能夠務實的來去做互動交流那甚至能夠保護台山那我想直接請教在過去到今年520到現在有針對兩岸的議題產業的議題包括FA相關項目的議題有作為任何一次經貿上面的談判或是聯繫嗎\n\n13:36.274 --> 13:57.381\n跟對方的談判我想主動權都不是在我們一方他跟我們的接觸我們請陸委會就知道我們光是希望兩小兩會就光光談判對方就是遲遲不願意他就是不願意用談判的方式他不願意把我們放在一個對等尊嚴的方式不願意跟我們做健康有序的接觸\n\n13:58.281 --> 14:18.489\n這是對方的問題那個我就不跟你為難啦我直接直接講就是說像陸委會跟其實兩岸之間他重申紀不應該是斷掉的也不應該是差別拔線的我們傳很多東西他從來就沒有告訴我們我從此之間那幫老師說都一定應該有一個正常的互動啦那我坦白講\n\n14:19.810 --> 14:32.902\n這個部分過去馬英九執政了8年那有辦法在不管是美國或包括中國大陸彼此之間讓我們許多的產業跟台商還能有一些經濟方面的一個成長\n\n14:33.752 --> 14:55.818\n那今天全球布局不管是進出或來講不能過度依賴但是他能夠在全球的市場下在台灣能夠許多產業扮演角色這是重要的那我直接接著就就好了那軍事審判法的部分那我們顧立雄顧部長那這個部分算不算複批部長主委謝謝\n\n15:00.987 --> 15:25.656\n部長早上已經有答過這是一個重新的開機截然不同的制度老郭部長是那這樣子軍事審判法重新再起那你覺得這個部分跟你過去所發表的言論跟價值與立場有沒有著實經過的感覺我今天早上已經跟王委員做過說明\n\n15:27.011 --> 15:44.413\n我的立場沒有,我的見解都沒有任何的改變就是說我認為過去的軍事審判有違反憲法的意志那也沒有辦法獲得人民的信賴所以我現在會盡個人最大的努力來確保我們重新打造的軍事審判\n\n15:45.245 --> 16:06.712\n是會跟過去的制度是不一樣的如果說你認為當初的沒有辦法來做客觀的審判的情況之下那當初在提出修正案以及報告案在倡稿的廢除的部分那為什麼當初你不用倡稿來去做修正?\n\n16:08.287 --> 16:24.715\n我想就是當我已經講了就是當時的這個軍事審判按照道爾干的憲法的意旨比如說軍法官他就認為他沒有符合身份保障所以他不是一個真正的法官所以我們在這個部分就要確保這個\n\n16:26.283 --> 16:44.048\n以後的這個軍事審判是一個這個軍法官是獲得有一個獨立性獲得身份保障所以我會說我們要定軍法官人事條例我們要定軍事法院組織法那為什麼當初你在提倡這個議題的時候不是用這個角度\n\n16:44.793 --> 17:01.539\n我沒有表示說沒有用這個角度我一直在主張軍事審判法相關的違憲的地方所以我們指出這些違憲的地方如果沒有辦法補這些破洞的話那就這一個部分我們認為\n\n17:03.208 --> 17:16.214\n就應該要回到這個民事的審判來所以說當初你認為應該回到民事的審判但是你當了部長之後你反而會認為又要再回覆嗎但是我跟委員做一個\n\n17:17.470 --> 17:40.130\n說明,你讓我有機會稍微說明一下但是,軍事審判法當時的第一條它仍然維持暫時要進行軍事審判所以在暫時仍然維持軍事審判的一個情況之下11年來平時如果沒有重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度暫時是不可能會憑空所以你這個時候暫時做運營嗎?\n\n17:42.432 --> 17:57.670\n我們國防部本來就是要為平戰轉換做準備那為什麼在過去我們所有國防部的人都是為了平戰轉換在做準備啊對那為什麼在去年跟過去前八年的時候沒有提出\n\n17:59.795 --> 18:13.693\n那所以說在過去的時候沒有提出而在賴總統昨天的這個發表講話之後就提出那這個部分那過去的九年的期間那到底這樣的軍事審判法被怎麼定義\n\n18:14.993 --> 18:39.496\n就我理解我們過去的法律師一直以來都在研究就是說平時這個審判的制度軍事審判的制度要如何能夠維繫他的能量的運作所以過去的九年的成果是如何因為你也擔任過許多重要的職務所以過去的九年的話其實完全都沒有對這個方面提出要求現在就是因應戰死\n\n18:41.123 --> 18:58.458\n我想我們國防部在做這個相關的平戰轉換做所有的戰備任務都是在為平戰轉換做準備我們的國防部存在的價值就是隨時做好這個備戰的準備我們的戰訓本部我們相關的訓練我們相關裝備的獲得也是都是如此那麼包括這個\n\n19:06.964 --> 19:24.314\n軍事審判這個課題也是如此所以我認為如果說新的軍事審判他能夠達到一個公平審判的原則跟正當法律程序的原則那麼這樣子重新開機的一個軍事審判他就可以來救\n\n19:25.654 --> 19:54.152\n現役軍人犯執運人職務上司罪這個部分來進行我想這一個部分應該是跟我的過去的見解沒有任何的一個不一致的地方今天對於這一個軍事懲判法這個當然未來我們也是會看你們提出的版本的內容但是我都想你剛才所提到的如果說你那時候處理上軍事懲判的過程中到底是否公正我坦白講這個是人的問題\n\n19:55.134 --> 20:11.375\n那當然說可以用條文或是規定來去把這個降到最低可是同樣的你可能還是要記得目前來講全國民眾對於許多的司法介入還甚至許多的相關的這種的外力的介入那影響到各種的判決\n\n20:12.156 --> 20:24.547\n不管在司法上其實人民對於整體司法改革他還是有很大的一個不信任所以說今天來講在提出軍事審判法的一個調整的時候是不是真的能夠解決這個問題那同時過去九年為什麼不提\n\n20:27.609 --> 20:55.948\n那我在當初在爭議這個事情的時候為什麼不提而是現在提那因應暫時是需要那沒關係這個就如你所說那我想要接著請教一下那外交部長林昭榮林部長那他也在今天的出席名單那部長有在嗎今天是次長代理那次長在那林昭榮部長是有在這個名單上面那今天請教時間暫停特別跟郵委員報告一下外交部長今天要接待外賓有遞請假單\n\n21:03.607 --> 21:24.977\n我們直接看秀的這個提案大家直接有提到林佳龍委員現在的部長過去也有提出軍事審判法第一條的修正那那個都是在黃中秋事件那時候所提出的那部長如果有在的話大家有想請教一下部長他的看法以及他現在對於這個案子的時候他是持什麼樣的一個角度那就不用請次長回答,謝謝\n\n21:26.394 --> 21:39.934\nOK那接著就不用請市長回答啦這是曾哲琳教授部長本人他所提案來詢問的部分那我們直接來再問一些接著民生大家非常關心的這個五一勞動節\n\n21:41.576 --> 21:57.323\n那是不是能夠放假這個其實過去能夠大家一直在討論院長一定也有評估過那市長請那想請教那個洪森漢部長要不要上來那想請教一下那這個議題那大家其實許多的\n\n21:58.183 --> 22:21.715\n五一勞動節勞工放假但是許多的公務人員或者是包括教育人員他們沒有放假所以就會變成帶小孩就會有出現這個問題那大家都一直在討論也一直在期待五一勞動節能放假那今天院長要不要跟大家宣布一下是不是今年的五一勞動節大家可以放假也讓造福大家這些許多的各行各業的家長依照現在紀念日\n\n22:22.415 --> 22:39.727\n及節日施行辦法當初在決定的時候在審定的時候有一個附帶決議他就說國定的假日加起來要115到116天那我們現在是達到這個上限當然時空是不一樣的社會環境會不好我本來就有預期你會這麼回覆\n\n22:41.008 --> 22:59.026\n時空會不同條件會不同如果社會大家認為有一天的放假會讓社會等大家在效率等等會提高而且變動會最少我們會願意聽聽大家的意見這個已經討論了相當多年了因為這個討論相當多年但是我們總是期待今年能夠有一個不一樣的結果\n\n22:59.306 --> 23:22.091\n因為這個假日是勞工放本來就是要感謝勞工人事長說明一下我知道那我想知道的答案就是今年可不可以放所以說那個相關的建議其實院長都知道所以我是想要直接就教院長今年的五一勞動節會不會做一個放假的宣示我們公布的行事曆裡面是沒有放假的那明年的話會不會往這個方向放\n\n23:23.106 --> 23:50.967\n我們明年的話會不會宣示希望往五一勞動節的方向能夠放假的部分來努力這個我想包括人事長因為有院長的宣示會比較有效勞動部或人事總署的部分他們還是沒有辦法代表行政院的態度我們可以做幕僚分析啦事實上以勞動節來講的話現在是勞工放假那一天他們也可以利用那個\n\n23:51.647 --> 24:21.277\n那其實就最主要是家長他們其實還是會遇到小孩子的問題那需要帶所以說有沒有可能能夠往五一勞動節作為放假日的方向來努力請部長說明一下吳聰說明一下現在五一勞動節目前適用勞基法的勞工是無放假的我勞工畢竟出身的對所以我說就勞工本身的勞務所管的勞務本身現在是有放假的部長你還是沒有辦法回答五一勞動節到底有沒有可能來做放假日\n\n24:27.198 --> 24:50.384\n在實施週休二日之後其實我們對整個放假的制度已經在一個制度化裡面去運行了也運行這麼多年所以並沒有所謂要再回復到那個時代的幾天放假的問題但是我們達到一百一十五、一百一十六這當然可以討論社會只要認為變動最小、成本最小而且符合全國一致性今年跟明年還是沒有答案\n\n24:51.204 --> 25:09.656\n我們可以討論,如果他變動小、成本小、全國一致性大家都能夠有共識,我們希望能夠討論大家的期待當然是希望放假但沒關係啦,我們直接來接個就教啦我們跟委員多多的請教來接個就教,就是預算中心的報告指出台電公司預計114年度發電燃料費加113年度減少351.46億,減幅7.96\n\n25:16.860 --> 25:35.188\n目前來講台電給出的預算顯示發電燃料成本是下降的我想直接就叫院長在目前來講我們知道很多能源配比的問題當然部長也來陪同今年有沒有可能不要調漲電價\n\n25:36.889 --> 25:54.808\n台電在惡霧戰爭之前在那個時候費用漲價很多但現在有稍微平緩但是我們現在考慮他的財政的結構是因為他過去幾年用了很多的補貼的需求所以他付出了很多對其他事業的這個補貼那今年的話有沒有可能能夠不要調漲\n\n25:58.012 --> 26:21.665\n它是虧損的,我們如果先把它的產業...過去也補了兩千億,也補了五百億那在今年那麼多產業行業受到影響今年有沒有可能能夠基於穩定物價照顧民生而今年不要調漲,或者是不往調漲的方向邁進報告委員,我們過去因為戰爭或者材料調漲\n\n26:23.311 --> 26:38.734\n我們大概吸收了六千億所以事實上過去的撥補並沒有那麼高所以他現在還存有這些東西部長我直接跟您請教這些我其實都理解但是我們會來努力但是條價與否這個是由電價省委員他們來決定的\n\n26:49.016 --> 27:13.226\n所以我們會努力我們台電自己會努力部長我知道你也努力了那我直接提一下上次其實你也提到一句這個部分院長也是很重要的因素我就不把原話再翻一次那希望院長能夠往穩定物價不調漲的方式來努力穩定物價反應成本還有這個節約能源將來必須使用者付費這個都是原則但是這個原則只會交到電價審議委員會\n\n27:15.054 --> 27:37.647\n去做審議我知道可是我們在這裡決定好沒關係所以上次有提到院長你當演員很重要的角色那原話我不說好不好那我直接再接著就叫這個醫護人員相關這個護理人員啊那目前來講在我們看到白班津貼研擬一年那目前的進展\n\n27:38.447 --> 27:48.115\n還有社會各界也都在期待那想就教一下這個白板津貼未來的一個發布跟性質補貼那是有一個宣示或是有一個回應\n\n27:57.999 --> 28:24.609\n法務委員我們護理人員的切口我們有推動十二項策略從他的教考信用增加的那個直接回津貼的部分就可以了直接回相關護理人員津貼的部分未來的方向為何就好津貼的部分我們當然是除了創造更好的工作環境以外在待遇方面我們特別很清楚的來增加\n\n28:25.918 --> 28:40.724\n那個護理會特別是急重症跟一般急症病房我們最近昨天才通過醫院的一個總額的協商我們將會增加的大概42億來增加護理會我相信這個對於那個\n\n28:43.107 --> 29:03.445\n護理的一個待遇會增加很多這樣可以喔那最主要是護理的也非常的辛苦啊那所以說希望說在中央政府部分能夠重視他們非常辛苦的一個內容也穩定他們這個職場場域他們能夠盡可能能夠減少流動那同時再補充之前急診護理就是醫務超載那轉院困難\n\n29:06.167 --> 29:34.167\n那發生了許多悲劇啊那希望未來在部內這邊也能夠持續針對目前來講急診室病房病床數不足的一個問題還來去做一個改善有沒有一個簡短的回應是的除了改善各個醫事人員的工作環境增加應有急重症的醫事人員的津貼以外我們在對針對病人方面特別是在急診跟病床急診病床的一個調配\n\n29:35.131 --> 29:52.194\n我們當然也請院方能夠做靈活的調併那部長我是希望說在這個許多患者他們因為病床患者的家屬是心急如焚那這個問題是一定要特別的重視我們會全力以赴來解決這個問題\n\n29:53.055 --> 30:06.951\n那最後就是剛才院長有提到團結那我在想這個團結在過去的一年到今年我們是看到的是許多的撕裂那如果說在許多的重大議題\n\n30:08.032 --> 30:28.419\n那在行政院法扮演一個重要的角色各位應該是要能夠積極主動的來讓朝野之間能夠做調和我相信重新思考應該能夠有比較好的結果啦那不然就不會發生這個大惡霸那我們都要堅定的不要讓貧窮跟戰爭留給下一代我們需要是和平發展才是真正團結謝謝\n\n30:37.007 --> 30:38.143\n報議會我們本日排定\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.478,"end":8.351,"text":"謝謝院長 那有請行政院長麻煩請卓院長再度備選"},{"start":20.112,"end":34.756,"text":"那其實我們都希望這整個國家的發展跟繁榮經濟的發展都是在一個穩定的一個情況跟氛圍之下可以逐漸進步那我們也覺得像現在來講確實"},{"start":36.936,"end":61.791,"text":"還更像是往這個兵凶戰危的這個這個過程在越去緊張那剛才稍早我們王世堅王委員有送院長一個大大的算盤那希望這個算盤他不僅是代表的賴政府還是不是精打細算那我們更是要提醒那許多重要的政策重要的決策那如一算盤不能打錯"},{"start":62.708,"end":76.228,"text":"那所以這個部分的話我們都希望是看到穩定而不要看到不穩定那許多的委員其實都是非常擔憂因為是全民都在擔憂那延續剛才許多委員所提到的"},{"start":76.909,"end":99.85,"text":"那在我們看到目前來講在昨天賴清德總統發表談話之後那其實我相信是全民焦慮全民恐慌那因為這也往這個更加還是不是走向戰爭的這個過程那其實大家都是共同擔憂那我想請教一下院長你也會擔憂會發生戰事嗎"},{"start":102.674,"end":126.876,"text":"我更擔憂的是如果我們沒有自我防衛的能力我們將沒有辦法保障自己的安全所以昨天總統的才事之後不見得像委員所說的大家都擔憂而是那些想對台灣要心魔不軌的人會擔憂但要保護台灣的人是得到一個最好的總統的支持跟政策上的支持我想這個是"},{"start":128.698,"end":150.244,"text":"造成我們內部更團結的開始只要我們團結我們就不會分裂我們不分裂敵人就不會加倍我坦白說如果院長剛才所講我是覺得這個給全民扣了個大帽子全民擔憂的是是不是發生戰爭是不是孩子上戰場那擔憂的人的話他就是好像聽你所說變成是出賣國家"},{"start":151.308,"end":171.846,"text":"但是如果說感到興奮的那這樣子他們是在期待戰爭嗎我覺得這樣子的說法全民要團結是這些對我們有企圖心的人要擔憂我相信你所指的不是指全民啦那同樣的我還是要在這裡也跟院長講這個目前來講的局勢確實是更加緊張啊"},{"start":173.052,"end":186.725,"text":"那所以說其實像目前我想要就教一下院長在昨天所發表談話之後啊您覺得將來在不久後有沒有可能會走向戒嚴"},{"start":188.38,"end":204.916,"text":"像什麼戒嚴我跟你說不可能台灣成為一個戒嚴的時代台灣經過全世界最長最長的戒嚴我們已經走過了那個時代在台灣民主高度發展的今天我們有健全的國會我們有健全的軍隊我們有健全的社會"},{"start":205.556,"end":220.252,"text":"我們有高水準的民主素養的人民當然我們內部有一些問題但這個問題我們可以用民主的方式來解決民主所造成的問題但戒嚴應該不是總統手上的權力他會去使用的絕對不是"},{"start":220.532,"end":244.004,"text":"好那記得你說的內容因為我們也不希望沒有在這個民意上的戒嚴但是在很多的政策與措施走向了實際上往戒嚴邁進那院長那我想要接著請教在目前這個發表談話之後那這個等同於是兩岸的緊張情勢絕對是更加升溫"},{"start":244.924,"end":252.851,"text":"那在ECFA的部分目前有沒有認為將來會有因此停止的可能性"},{"start":253.376,"end":280.838,"text":"我們一直在建立台灣自主的經濟安全只要我們夠我們自己經濟安全我們從各方面做有序而且是必要的調整那台灣會往世界走台灣會轉向轉向海洋轉向世界那台灣會把我們的生產我們的市場都放到世界各地去我們就不會受到某一個國家單獨對台灣太多台灣對他的依賴性所以我們正在往這個方向走也希望得到全民的支持"},{"start":281.55,"end":301.213,"text":"我相信剛才你所講,台灣不可能是獨立在世界體系一環、經濟體系一環的任何一個環節,當然也不可能說在這個所謂的全球,我相信這是一個整體,當然不是說對於任何一個地方、任何一個城市也好、國家也好都不能夠過度依賴,"},{"start":301.954,"end":322.911,"text":"但是你覺得像目前的一個情況有沒有可能未來ECFA是有可能因此而停止甚至有沒有做好各種的因應或衝擊的準備當我們面對一個不是法治的社會不是民主的國家它要對我們用任何的方式不是我們在這裡能夠預料得到的但我們是希望"},{"start":324.04,"end":339.431,"text":"兩岸之間能夠健康有序的交流能夠尊嚴對等的交流凡是用談判用對話來代替現在這種互相不了解這個才是好的比方說那你說的好啊那我覺得其實經濟部長也可以起來"},{"start":340.211,"end":368.497,"text":"那這個你剛才說以這個談判或是一個交流才說一個健康的方式來進行那我想請教目前來講針對經貿議題在兩岸有沒有做任何形式的交流尤其是在去年賴總統賴內閣就是你的內閣上任之後有沒有做各種形式的交流或是談判我們在很多的方式經濟部等一下陸委會我們都可以談一下"},{"start":370.087,"end":391.857,"text":"報告委員 我想我們在上任以來我們碰到的是中國對ECFA的部分取消我們當然要提早因應 因為它的不確定性太高所以我們希望能夠協助沒有ECFA的措施之後的業者"},{"start":393.123,"end":420.596,"text":"能夠轉移市場到除了這個中國以外的市場這第一個第二個我們協助他能夠提升避開這個中國的大量的這個製造因為中國用補貼的這個方式造成我們到我們的台商到中國去製造的時候面臨到更大的這個傷害所以我們要幫助在台灣生產的這些廠商過去他銷給中國的我們都完全來輔導他們"},{"start":422.057,"end":437.781,"text":"能夠到這個中國以外的市場來進行他們這個生意的這個持續下去好那我就直接就教部長那在目前來講針對EXPA的這種情況那有沒有做任何的一個衝擊影響評估相關的報告"},{"start":441.912,"end":465.765,"text":"未來假如因此取消的時候您的意思是說還沒有取消的部分還是說已經取消的部分假如像現在昨天之後情勢更加升溫之後您能做出任何的衝擊甚至停止之後的對於我們整個各行各業百工百業的一個衝擊的影響評估報告對百工百業我想這個"},{"start":467.79,"end":487.671,"text":"一般的影響評估當然是有的那我直接跟部長就直接提這個聽起來因為像現在從昨天到今後期確實更加衝突性我相信陛下主委你也同意吧更加緊張跟委員報告當然中國大陸一直對我們經濟脅迫這也是事實"},{"start":488.593,"end":507.712,"text":"不過我們相關部會都做好的各種的準備我們在國安的思考一定是做最壞的打算好我知道任何的一個政府包括馬政府此起一定是做最壞的打算那一定是做最充足的準備一定是盡力來去溝通啦我相信在座三位一定都認同那我要直接回答就是說"},{"start":508.453,"end":528.595,"text":"就是像剛才所提到的這個答案並沒有明確的回覆我到底有沒有做好假如像昨天之後到現在未來那ECFA如果因此而到時候停止之後那影響百工百業的衝擊報告目前來講經濟部是不是有做那因為有做的話是不是可以公開的也讓社會各界百工百業各種產業來做因應"},{"start":531.584,"end":552.016,"text":"我們在去年的時候當ECFA取消的部分我們就已經有公告來協助這些受ECFA影響的廠商如何協助他們來轉移市場這個是我們在去年就已經開始做了"},{"start":552.944,"end":577.362,"text":"好那沒關係那我這樣子聽起來大致上啊就是說如果說要衝擊的廠商的話當然一定是要協助啦那其實在任何的一個全球的一個就是分工之下啦產業鏈的這種互動之下其實本來就是每一個市場都應該是要去做溝通啦還能夠讓我們的這個企業界產業界都能夠去做任何形式的一個評估那我相信這個絕對會是比較理想正確"},{"start":578.163,"end":601.874,"text":"所以現在聽起來的話,是沒有做相關,如果因為像昨天發表台灣之後,那個法,未來如果因此而喊停的時候,整體的一個評估報告,所以說許多的產業受到影響的這些項目來講,他們並沒有辦法因此來提早做運營。那在這裡是本席能夠請經濟部,能夠做相關的評估報告、衝擊報告之後,甚至能夠在公開讓社會各界提早做運營。"},{"start":604.019,"end":627.868,"text":"剛剛部長已經說過了我們之前我們有做了相關的因應現在我們做全球的佈局那我們要提醒中國的經濟下行他現在的經濟狀況是極端的不好他做任何的變動如果對他的經濟產生更劇烈的變化而往下更走的話也不是他樂意看到的當然也不是全世界樂意看到的所以不要做不需要做這樣的我們有我們自己"},{"start":629.41,"end":640.63,"text":"所以說,像剛才所提到的話,甚至假如未來來講,因為未來情勢更加緊張的時候,全部面的停止的時候,目前來講人評不高沒有做,但是也不宜做嗎?"},{"start":641.533,"end":666.279,"text":"我們保障自己的安全怎麼會是情勢越加緊張不是啊 那要輔導轉型輔導跟其他的國家來去做連結相關的一個輔導措施甚至補貼措施過去馬英國時期的時候其實都有做相關的評估報告跟研究現在國內好幾位像委員這樣身強體壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收 被對方所利用等一下 你這句話我要反駁我另外被吸收喔我不是說你 我說現役軍人"},{"start":667.25,"end":686.412,"text":"他是很強壯的現役軍人都被對方所吸收對對方所利用我們當然要有一個防制的精神如果能夠做有效的防制我們是加強自己的能力我要跟院長講就是說今天來講各個國家在任何一個地方他們在做這種侵犯工作我想實在話本席絕對是站在國家安全的立場"},{"start":687.413,"end":714.892,"text":"這個覺得大家全民都是站在國家安全立場如果個人因為他被吸收或是有跟任何國家這樣子有任何成為間諜的一個情況的話當然是絕不容忍但是但是回頭來講那這個一個法案未來來講因為賴清德總統昨天的發表通關之後後面的情勢更加緊張評估報告如果是沒有做衝擊報告沒有做還是有請經濟部會來做的之後來做因應這樣子是否可以我們昨天在開會的時候就已經要求各部會"},{"start":715.916,"end":742.858,"text":"要把總統的才智要專案的執行要定期的考核而且限期的完成必要修法就修法該立法就立法該訂定行動計畫就訂定行動計畫這個已經在處理當中了昨天那一個資料我看了十次了所以說經濟部包括在於這個經濟重啟確實沒有相關的一個因應當然這個評估包括也不是在一個簡短的談話中可以去提到的所以說請這個部長這邊做相關的評估"},{"start":744.779,"end":756.251,"text":"還要讓社會大眾提早去做了解這樣是否可行就經濟的部分我想我們經濟部已經在內部作業我們也根據各個署各個處"},{"start":760.356,"end":785.083,"text":"那麼請他們提出來對我們在中國的這些台商會產生什麼影響然後在台灣的業者他們如果是輸出到中國的部分那可能會碰到什麼樣的問題我們都給予分析然後再來輔導我們台灣的廠商在未來如何因應這樣的一個可能產生的變異"},{"start":786.463,"end":814.284,"text":"沒關係那大致上就是這一個整個過程中對於兩岸經貿剛才院長有提到也希望能夠務實的來去做互動交流那甚至能夠保護台山那我想直接請教在過去到今年520到現在有針對兩岸的議題產業的議題包括FA相關項目的議題有作為任何一次經貿上面的談判或是聯繫嗎"},{"start":816.274,"end":837.381,"text":"跟對方的談判我想主動權都不是在我們一方他跟我們的接觸我們請陸委會就知道我們光是希望兩小兩會就光光談判對方就是遲遲不願意他就是不願意用談判的方式他不願意把我們放在一個對等尊嚴的方式不願意跟我們做健康有序的接觸"},{"start":838.281,"end":858.489,"text":"這是對方的問題那個我就不跟你為難啦我直接直接講就是說像陸委會跟其實兩岸之間他重申紀不應該是斷掉的也不應該是差別拔線的我們傳很多東西他從來就沒有告訴我們我從此之間那幫老師說都一定應該有一個正常的互動啦那我坦白講"},{"start":859.81,"end":872.902,"text":"這個部分過去馬英九執政了8年那有辦法在不管是美國或包括中國大陸彼此之間讓我們許多的產業跟台商還能有一些經濟方面的一個成長"},{"start":873.752,"end":895.818,"text":"那今天全球布局不管是進出或來講不能過度依賴但是他能夠在全球的市場下在台灣能夠許多產業扮演角色這是重要的那我直接接著就就好了那軍事審判法的部分那我們顧立雄顧部長那這個部分算不算複批部長主委謝謝"},{"start":900.987,"end":925.656,"text":"部長早上已經有答過這是一個重新的開機截然不同的制度老郭部長是那這樣子軍事審判法重新再起那你覺得這個部分跟你過去所發表的言論跟價值與立場有沒有著實經過的感覺我今天早上已經跟王委員做過說明"},{"start":927.011,"end":944.413,"text":"我的立場沒有,我的見解都沒有任何的改變就是說我認為過去的軍事審判有違反憲法的意志那也沒有辦法獲得人民的信賴所以我現在會盡個人最大的努力來確保我們重新打造的軍事審判"},{"start":945.245,"end":966.712,"text":"是會跟過去的制度是不一樣的如果說你認為當初的沒有辦法來做客觀的審判的情況之下那當初在提出修正案以及報告案在倡稿的廢除的部分那為什麼當初你不用倡稿來去做修正?"},{"start":968.287,"end":984.715,"text":"我想就是當我已經講了就是當時的這個軍事審判按照道爾干的憲法的意旨比如說軍法官他就認為他沒有符合身份保障所以他不是一個真正的法官所以我們在這個部分就要確保這個"},{"start":986.283,"end":1004.048,"text":"以後的這個軍事審判是一個這個軍法官是獲得有一個獨立性獲得身份保障所以我會說我們要定軍法官人事條例我們要定軍事法院組織法那為什麼當初你在提倡這個議題的時候不是用這個角度"},{"start":1004.793,"end":1021.539,"text":"我沒有表示說沒有用這個角度我一直在主張軍事審判法相關的違憲的地方所以我們指出這些違憲的地方如果沒有辦法補這些破洞的話那就這一個部分我們認為"},{"start":1023.208,"end":1036.214,"text":"就應該要回到這個民事的審判來所以說當初你認為應該回到民事的審判但是你當了部長之後你反而會認為又要再回覆嗎但是我跟委員做一個"},{"start":1037.47,"end":1060.13,"text":"說明,你讓我有機會稍微說明一下但是,軍事審判法當時的第一條它仍然維持暫時要進行軍事審判所以在暫時仍然維持軍事審判的一個情況之下11年來平時如果沒有重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度暫時是不可能會憑空所以你這個時候暫時做運營嗎?"},{"start":1062.432,"end":1077.67,"text":"我們國防部本來就是要為平戰轉換做準備那為什麼在過去我們所有國防部的人都是為了平戰轉換在做準備啊對那為什麼在去年跟過去前八年的時候沒有提出"},{"start":1079.795,"end":1093.693,"text":"那所以說在過去的時候沒有提出而在賴總統昨天的這個發表講話之後就提出那這個部分那過去的九年的期間那到底這樣的軍事審判法被怎麼定義"},{"start":1094.993,"end":1119.496,"text":"就我理解我們過去的法律師一直以來都在研究就是說平時這個審判的制度軍事審判的制度要如何能夠維繫他的能量的運作所以過去的九年的成果是如何因為你也擔任過許多重要的職務所以過去的九年的話其實完全都沒有對這個方面提出要求現在就是因應戰死"},{"start":1121.123,"end":1138.458,"text":"我想我們國防部在做這個相關的平戰轉換做所有的戰備任務都是在為平戰轉換做準備我們的國防部存在的價值就是隨時做好這個備戰的準備我們的戰訓本部我們相關的訓練我們相關裝備的獲得也是都是如此那麼包括這個"},{"start":1146.964,"end":1164.314,"text":"軍事審判這個課題也是如此所以我認為如果說新的軍事審判他能夠達到一個公平審判的原則跟正當法律程序的原則那麼這樣子重新開機的一個軍事審判他就可以來救"},{"start":1165.654,"end":1194.152,"text":"現役軍人犯執運人職務上司罪這個部分來進行我想這一個部分應該是跟我的過去的見解沒有任何的一個不一致的地方今天對於這一個軍事懲判法這個當然未來我們也是會看你們提出的版本的內容但是我都想你剛才所提到的如果說你那時候處理上軍事懲判的過程中到底是否公正我坦白講這個是人的問題"},{"start":1195.134,"end":1211.375,"text":"那當然說可以用條文或是規定來去把這個降到最低可是同樣的你可能還是要記得目前來講全國民眾對於許多的司法介入還甚至許多的相關的這種的外力的介入那影響到各種的判決"},{"start":1212.156,"end":1224.547,"text":"不管在司法上其實人民對於整體司法改革他還是有很大的一個不信任所以說今天來講在提出軍事審判法的一個調整的時候是不是真的能夠解決這個問題那同時過去九年為什麼不提"},{"start":1227.609,"end":1255.948,"text":"那我在當初在爭議這個事情的時候為什麼不提而是現在提那因應暫時是需要那沒關係這個就如你所說那我想要接著請教一下那外交部長林昭榮林部長那他也在今天的出席名單那部長有在嗎今天是次長代理那次長在那林昭榮部長是有在這個名單上面那今天請教時間暫停特別跟郵委員報告一下外交部長今天要接待外賓有遞請假單"},{"start":1263.607,"end":1284.977,"text":"我們直接看秀的這個提案大家直接有提到林佳龍委員現在的部長過去也有提出軍事審判法第一條的修正那那個都是在黃中秋事件那時候所提出的那部長如果有在的話大家有想請教一下部長他的看法以及他現在對於這個案子的時候他是持什麼樣的一個角度那就不用請次長回答,謝謝"},{"start":1286.394,"end":1299.934,"text":"OK 那接著就不用請市長回答啦這是曾哲琳教授部長本人他所提案來詢問的部分那我們直接來再問一些接著民生大家非常關心的這個五一勞動節"},{"start":1301.576,"end":1317.323,"text":"那是不是能夠放假這個其實過去能夠大家一直在討論院長一定也有評估過那市長請那想請教那個洪森漢部長要不要上來那想請教一下那這個議題那大家其實許多的"},{"start":1318.183,"end":1341.715,"text":"五一勞動節勞工放假但是許多的公務人員或者是包括教育人員他們沒有放假所以就會變成帶小孩就會有出現這個問題那大家都一直在討論也一直在期待五一勞動節能放假那今天院長要不要跟大家宣布一下是不是今年的五一勞動節大家可以放假也讓造福大家這些許多的各行各業的家長依照現在紀念日"},{"start":1342.415,"end":1359.727,"text":"及節日施行辦法當初在決定的時候在審定的時候有一個附帶決議他就說國定的假日加起來要115到116天那我們現在是達到這個上限當然時空是不一樣的社會環境會不好我本來就有預期你會這麼回覆"},{"start":1361.008,"end":1379.026,"text":"時空會不同條件會不同如果社會大家認為有一天的放假會讓社會等大家在效率等等會提高而且變動會最少我們會願意聽聽大家的意見這個已經討論了相當多年了因為這個討論相當多年但是我們總是期待今年能夠有一個不一樣的結果"},{"start":1379.306,"end":1402.091,"text":"因為這個假日是勞工放 本來就是要感謝勞工 人事長說明一下我知道 那我想知道的答案就是今年可不可以放所以說那個相關的建議其實院長都知道所以我是想要直接就教院長今年的五一勞動節會不會做一個放假的宣示我們公布的行事曆裡面是沒有放假的那明年的話會不會往這個方向放"},{"start":1403.106,"end":1430.967,"text":"我們明年的話會不會宣示希望往五一勞動節的方向能夠放假的部分來努力這個我想包括人事長因為有院長的宣示會比較有效勞動部或人事總署的部分他們還是沒有辦法代表行政院的態度我們可以做幕僚分析啦事實上以勞動節來講的話現在是勞工放假那一天他們也可以利用那個"},{"start":1431.647,"end":1461.277,"text":"那其實就最主要是家長他們其實還是會遇到小孩子的問題那需要帶所以說有沒有可能能夠往五一勞動節作為放假日的方向來努力請部長說明一下吳聰說明一下現在五一勞動節目前適用勞基法的勞工是無放假的我勞工畢竟出身的對所以我說就勞工本身的勞務所管的勞務本身現在是有放假的部長你還是沒有辦法回答五一勞動節到底有沒有可能來做放假日"},{"start":1467.198,"end":1490.384,"text":"在實施週休二日之後其實我們對整個放假的制度已經在一個制度化裡面去運行了也運行這麼多年所以並沒有所謂要再回復到那個時代的幾天放假的問題但是我們達到一百一十五、一百一十六這當然可以討論社會只要認為變動最小、成本最小而且符合全國一致性今年跟明年還是沒有答案"},{"start":1491.204,"end":1509.656,"text":"我們可以討論,如果他變動小、成本小、全國一致性大家都能夠有共識,我們希望能夠討論大家的期待當然是希望放假但沒關係啦,我們直接來接個就教啦我們跟委員多多的請教來接個就教,就是預算中心的報告指出台電公司預計114年度發電燃料費加113年度減少351.46億,減幅7.96"},{"start":1516.86,"end":1535.188,"text":"目前來講台電給出的預算顯示發電燃料成本是下降的我想直接就叫院長在目前來講我們知道很多能源配比的問題當然部長也來陪同今年有沒有可能不要調漲電價"},{"start":1536.889,"end":1554.808,"text":"台電在惡霧戰爭之前在那個時候費用漲價很多但現在有稍微平緩但是我們現在考慮他的財政的結構是因為他過去幾年用了很多的補貼的需求所以他付出了很多對其他事業的這個補貼那今年的話有沒有可能能夠不要調漲"},{"start":1558.012,"end":1581.665,"text":"它是虧損的,我們如果先把它的產業...過去也補了兩千億,也補了五百億那在今年那麼多產業行業受到影響今年有沒有可能能夠基於穩定物價照顧民生而今年不要調漲,或者是不往調漲的方向邁進報告委員,我們過去因為戰爭或者材料調漲"},{"start":1583.311,"end":1598.734,"text":"我們大概吸收了六千億所以事實上過去的撥補並沒有那麼高所以他現在還存有這些東西部長我直接跟您請教這些我其實都理解但是我們會來努力但是條價與否這個是由電價省委員他們來決定的"},{"start":1609.016,"end":1633.226,"text":"所以我們會努力我們台電自己會努力部長我知道你也努力了那我直接提一下上次其實你也提到一句這個部分院長也是很重要的因素我就不把原話再翻一次那希望院長能夠往穩定物價不調漲的方式來努力穩定物價反應成本還有這個節約能源將來必須使用者付費這個都是原則但是這個原則只會交到電價審議委員會"},{"start":1635.054,"end":1657.647,"text":"去做審議 我知道 可是我們在這裡決定好 沒關係 所以上次有提到院長你當演員很重要的角色那原話我不說好不好 那我直接再接著就叫這個醫護人員相關這個護理人員啊 那目前來講在我們看到白班津貼研擬一年 那目前的進展"},{"start":1658.447,"end":1668.115,"text":"還有社會各界也都在期待那想就教一下這個白板津貼未來的一個發布跟性質補貼那是有一個宣示或是有一個回應"},{"start":1677.999,"end":1704.609,"text":"法務委員我們護理人員的切口我們有推動十二項策略從他的教考信用增加的那個直接回津貼的部分就可以了直接回相關護理人員津貼的部分未來的方向為何就好津貼的部分我們當然是除了創造更好的工作環境以外在待遇方面我們特別很清楚的來增加"},{"start":1705.918,"end":1720.724,"text":"那個護理會特別是急重症跟一般急症病房我們最近昨天才通過醫院的一個總額的協商我們將會增加的大概42億來增加護理會我相信這個對於那個"},{"start":1723.107,"end":1743.445,"text":"護理的一個待遇會增加很多這樣可以喔那最主要是護理的也非常的辛苦啊那所以說希望說在中央政府部分能夠重視他們非常辛苦的一個內容也穩定他們這個職場場域他們能夠盡可能能夠減少流動那同時再補充之前急診護理就是醫務超載那轉院困難"},{"start":1746.167,"end":1774.167,"text":"那發生了許多悲劇啊那希望未來在部內這邊也能夠持續針對目前來講急診室病房病床數不足的一個問題還來去做一個改善有沒有一個簡短的回應是的除了改善各個醫事人員的工作環境增加應有急重症的醫事人員的津貼以外我們在對針對病人方面特別是在急診跟病床急診病床的一個調配"},{"start":1775.131,"end":1792.194,"text":"我們當然也請院方能夠做靈活的調併那部長我是希望說在這個許多患者他們因為病床患者的家屬是心急如焚那這個問題是一定要特別的重視我們會全力以赴來解決這個問題"},{"start":1793.055,"end":1806.951,"text":"那最後就是剛才院長有提到團結那我在想這個團結在過去的一年到今年我們是看到的是許多的撕裂那如果說在許多的重大議題"},{"start":1808.032,"end":1828.419,"text":"那在行政院法扮演一個重要的角色各位應該是要能夠積極主動的來讓朝野之間能夠做調和我相信重新思考應該能夠有比較好的結果啦那不然就不會發生這個大惡霸那我們都要堅定的不要讓貧窮跟戰爭留給下一代我們需要是和平發展才是真正團結謝謝"},{"start":1837.007,"end":1838.143,"text":"報議會我們本日排定"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":674,"blocks":[["游委員顥：（17時18分）謝謝院長，有請行政院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長再度備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：游委員好。"],["游委員顥：院長好。延續剛才陳委員所提，其實我們都希望整個國家的發展、經濟的繁榮，都是在一個穩定的情況跟氛圍之下可以逐漸進步，我們也覺得以現在來講，確實更像是往兵凶戰危的過程在越趨緊張。稍早王世堅委員有送院長一個大大的算盤，希望這個算盤不僅是代表著賴政府是不是精打細算，我們更要提醒許多重要的政策、重要的決策，如意算盤不能打錯，我們都希望看到穩定，而不要看到不穩定，許多委員其實都非常擔憂，而且是全民都在擔憂。延續剛才許多委員所提到的，我們看到目前來講，在昨天賴清德總統發表談話之後，其實我相信是全民焦慮、全民恐慌，擔心是不是更加走向戰爭的過程，其實大家都是共同擔憂。我想請教一下院長，你也擔憂會發生戰事嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我更擔憂的是，如果我們沒有自我防衛的能力，我們將沒有辦法保障自己的安全。所以昨天總統裁示之後，不見得像委員所說的大家都擔憂，而是那些想對臺灣心謀不軌的人會擔憂，但要保護臺灣的人，是得到最好的總統的支持跟政策上的支持，我想這個是造成我們內部更團結的開始。只要我們團結，我們就不會分裂；我們不分裂，敵人就不會加倍。"],["游委員顥：我坦白說，如院長剛才所講的，我覺得這個是給全民扣了個大帽子。全民擔憂的是是不是發生戰爭、是不是孩子要上戰場，擔憂的人，聽你所說，好像變成是出賣國家……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是。"],["游委員顥：但是如果感到興奮的，這樣子他們是在期待戰爭嗎？我覺得這樣子的說法……"],["卓院長榮泰：就是全民要團結……"],["游委員顥：我覺得……"],["卓院長榮泰：是這些對我們有企圖心的人要擔憂。"],["游委員顥：我相信你所指的不是指全民。同樣地，我還是要在這裡跟院長講，目前來講，局勢確實是更加緊張。所以我想要就教一下院長，在昨天發表談話之後，您覺得將來不久後，有沒有可能會走向戒嚴？"],["卓院長榮泰：走向什麼？"],["游委員顥：戒嚴。"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟你說，不可能臺灣成為一個戒嚴的時代。臺灣經過全世界最長、最長的戒嚴，我們已經走過了那個時代，在臺灣民主高度發展的今天，我們有健全的國會，我們有健全的軍隊，我們有健全的社會，我們有高水準、民主素養的人民。當然，我們內部有一些問題，而這個問題，我們可以用民主的方式來解決民主所造成的問題，但戒嚴應該不是總統手上的權力會去使用的，絕對不是！"],["游委員顥：好，記得你說的內容，因為我們也不希望出現沒有在民意上的戒嚴，但是很多的政策與措施走向了、實際上往戒嚴邁進……"],["卓院長榮泰：並沒有。"],["游委員顥：院長，我想要接著請教，目前發表談話之後，等同是兩岸的緊張情勢絕對是更加升溫，在ECFA的部分，目前有沒有認為將來會因此停止的可能性？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一直在建立臺灣自主的經濟安全，只要我們自己的經濟安全足夠，我們從各方面做有序而且是必要的調整，臺灣會往世界走，臺灣會轉向，轉向海洋、轉向世界，臺灣會把我們的生產、我們的市場都放到世界各地去，我們就不會受到某一個國家單獨對臺灣、太多臺灣對它的依賴性，所以我們正在往這個方向走，也希望得到全民的支持。"],["游委員顥：我相信剛才你所講的，臺灣是不可能獨立在世界體系一環、經濟體系一環的任何一個環節，我相信這是一個整體，當然不是說對於任何一個地方、任何一個城市也好、國家也好，都不能夠過度依賴，但是你覺得像目前的情況，有沒有可能未來ECFA是有可能因此而停止，甚至有沒有做好各種的因應或衝擊的準備？"],["卓院長榮泰：當我們面對一個不是法治的社會、不是民主的國家，它要對我們用任何的方式，不是我們在這裡能夠預料得到的，但我們是希望兩岸之間能夠健康有序地交流，能夠尊嚴對等地交流，凡事用談判、用對話來代替現在這種互相不了解，這個才是好的，比方說……"],["游委員顥：你說得好，我覺得其實經濟部長也可以一起來。你剛才說以談判或是交流才是一個健康的方式來進行，我想請教，目前來講，針對經貿議題，兩岸有沒有做任何形式的交流？尤其在去年賴總統、您的內閣上任之後，有沒有做各種形式的交流或是談判？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在很多的方式，等一下經濟部、陸委會，我們都可以談一下。"],["游委員顥：好。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想我們在上任以來，我們碰到的是中國對ECFA的部分取消，對此，我們當然要提早因應，因為它的不確定性太高，所以我們希望能夠協助在沒有ECFA措施之後的這些業者，能夠轉移市場到除了中國以外的市場，這是第一個。","第二個，我們協助它能夠提升，以避開中國大量的製造，因為中國用補貼的方式，造成我們臺商到中國去製造的時候，面臨到更大的傷害，所以我們要幫助在臺灣生產的這些廠商，過去它是銷給中國的，我們就是完全輔導他們能夠到中國以外的市場，讓他們的生意能夠持續進行下去。"],["游委員顥：我就直接就教部長，以目前來講，針對ECFA的這種情況，有沒有做任何的衝擊影響評估？有沒有相關的報告？就是未來假如因此而取消的時候。"],["郭部長智輝：您的意思是還沒有取消的部分，還是已經取消的部分？"],["游委員顥：假如在昨天之後，情勢更加升溫之後，你們有沒有做過相關衝擊影響評估？甚至是它停止之後對於我們各行各業、百工百業的衝擊影響評估報告？"],["郭部長智輝：對百工百業，這個一般的影響評估當然是有。"],["游委員顥：我直接跟部長說，因為從昨天開始，其實確實更加衝突升溫，我相信陸委會主委也同意吧？就是更加緊張。"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，當然中國大陸一直對我們經濟脅迫，這也是事實，不過我們相關部會都做好了各種的準備，我們在國安的思考上，一定是做最壞的打算、做最好的準備。"],["游委員顥：我知道任何的政府，包括馬政府時期，一定是做最壞的打算，一定是做最充足的準備，一定是盡力進行溝通，我相信在座三位一定都認同，我要直接說的是，像剛才所提到的答案，並沒有明確的回復我到底有沒有做好這些，從昨天之後到現在、到未來，ECFA到時停止之後，關於影響百工百業的衝擊報告，目前來講，經濟部是不是有去做？如果有做的話，是不是可以公開，也讓社會各界、百工百業、各個產業等來做因應？"],["郭部長智輝：關於委員的這個質詢，我們在去年的時候，當它有ECFA取消的部分，我們就已經有公告要協助這些受到ECFA影響的廠商，如何協助他們來轉移市場，這個是我們去年就已經開始在做的。"],["游委員顥：好，沒關係，聽起來大致上是如果有廠商受到衝擊，當然一定要協助，在全球的分工之下，產業鏈的互動之下，本來每一個市場都應該要去做溝通，讓我們的企業界、產業界都能夠去做任何形式的評估，我相信這個絕對是比較理想、正確的，所以聽起來是沒有做相關的評估報告，就是針對像昨天的發表，未來ECFA如果因此而喊停的時候，做一個整體的評估報告，所以許多產業針對受到影響的這些項目，他們並沒有辦法因此提早因應，在這裡本席請經濟部能夠做相關評估報告、衝擊報告之後，甚至再予以公開，讓社會各界提早做因應。"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛部長已經說過了，我們之前有做了相關的因應……"],["游委員顥：那是……"],["卓院長榮泰：現在我們做全球的布局，而且我們也要提醒，中國的經濟下行，它現在的經濟狀況是極端的不好，它做任何的變動如果對它的經濟產生更劇烈的變化，更往下走的話，也不是它樂意看到的，當然也不是全世界樂意看到的，所以不需要做這樣的事情，我們有我們自己自主的經濟安全。"],["游委員顥：像剛才所提到的，未來情勢更加緊張的時候，全部都停止的時候，以目前來講，你們評估報告都沒有做，但是也不宜做嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要保障自己的安全，怎麼會是情勢越加緊張？"],["游委員顥：要輔導轉型、輔導到其他的國家去做連結，相關的輔導措施，甚至是補貼措施，過去馬英九時期的時候，其實都有做相關的評估報告跟研究。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在國內好幾位像委員這樣身強體壯的現役軍人，都被對方所吸收、都被對方所利用……"],["游委員顥：你這句話我要反駁，我沒有被吸收！"],["卓院長榮泰：我不是說你，我是說現役軍人，他是很強壯的現役軍人，都被對方所吸收、被對方所利用，我們當然要有一個防制的精神，如果能夠做有效的防制，我們是加強自己的能力。"],["游委員顥：我要跟院長講，就是在今天來講，任何國家在任何一個地方做這種情報工作，我講實在話，本席絕對是站在國家安全的立場，全民絕對都是站在國家安全的立場，如果個人因為他被吸收或是有跟任何國家這樣子而成為間諜的情況，當然是絕不容忍。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["游委員顥：但是那是回頭來講，那對ECFA以未來來講，在賴清德總統昨天發表談話之後，後面的情勢更加緊張，評估報告沒有做，衝擊報告沒有做，還是有請經濟部未來處理之後來做因應，這樣子是否可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們昨天在開會的時候就已經要求各部會對總統的裁示要專案的執行，要定期的考核，而且限期的完成，有必要修法就修法，該立法就立法，該訂定行動計畫就訂定行動計畫，這個已經在處理當中了。"],["游委員顥：院長，昨天那一個資料我已經看10次了，經濟部包括對於這個經濟衝擊確實沒有相關的因應，當然這個評估報告也不是在一個簡短的談話中可以去提到，所以請部長這邊做相關的評估，讓社會大眾來提早了解，這樣是否可行？"],["郭部長智輝：就經濟的部分，我想我們經濟部已經在內部作業，我們也請各署、各處提出對我們在中國的這些臺商會產生什麼影響，然後在臺灣的業者，他們如果是有輸出到中國的部分，那可能會碰到什麼樣的問題，我們都給予分析，然後再來輔導我們臺灣的廠商在未來如何因應可能產生的變異。"],["游委員顥：好，沒關係，大致上就是在這整個過程中，對於兩岸經貿，剛才院長也有提到希望能夠務實的去做溝通交流，甚至能夠保護臺商。我想直接請教，在過去從今年520到現在，針對兩岸的議題、產業的議題，包括ECFA相關項目的議題，有做過任何一次經貿上面的談判或是聯繫嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟對方的談判，我想主動權都不是在我們一方，它跟我們的接觸，我們問陸委會就知道，我們光是希望小兩會就觀光談判，對方就是遲遲不願意，它就是不願意用談判的方式，它不願意把我們放在一個對等尊嚴的方式，不願意跟我們做健康永續的接觸，這是對方的問題。"],["邱主任委員垂正：報告游委員，ECFA……"],["游委員顥：沒關係，主委，我也不為難你，我就直接講，像陸委會，其實兩岸之間的傳真機不應該是斷掉的，也不應該是插頭拔掉的。"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，我們傳了很多東西，它從來就沒有告訴我們傳真機沒有紙。"],["游委員顥：彼此之間當然都一定應該有一個正常的互動，我坦白講，關於這個部分，在過去馬英九執政的8年有辦法，不管是美國或是包括中國大陸，彼此之間，我們有許多的產業跟臺商，讓他們有一些經濟方面的成長。那今天全球布局，不管是進出口來講，不能過度依賴，但是它在全球的市場下對臺灣許多產業能夠扮演一定的角色，這是重要的。部長、主委，謝謝。我接著就教，關於軍事審判法的部分，顧立雄部長認為這個部分算不算復辟？"],["卓院長榮泰：部長早上已經有答過，這是一個……"],["游委員顥：我知道，是在王育敏委員問的時候。"],["卓院長榮泰：是重新的開機，是截然不同的制度。"],["游委員顥：來，顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["游委員顥：軍事審判法重新再啟，那你覺得這個部分跟你過去所發表的言論跟價值與立場，有沒有昨是今非的感覺？"],["顧部長立雄：我今天早上已經跟王委員做過說明了，我的立場、我的見解都沒有任何的改變，就是我認為過去的軍事審判有違反憲法的意旨，也沒有辦法獲得人民的信賴，所以我現在會盡個人最大的努力，來確保我們重新打造的軍事審判是會跟過去的制度不一樣的，我們會符合公平審判這個正當法律程序的原則。"],["游委員顥：本席還是要就教部長，如果你認為當初沒有辦法來做客觀審判的情況之下，當初在提出這個修正案，包括你倡導廢除的部分，那為什麼當初你不用倡導作修正呢？"],["顧部長立雄：我已經講了，就是當時的軍事審判按照大法官解釋憲法的意旨，譬如說軍法官，它就認為其沒有符合身分保障，所以他不是一個真正的法官。因此我們在這個部分就要確保以後的軍事審判，軍法官是獲得一個獨立性或身分保障，我才會說我們要訂定軍法官人事條例，我們要訂軍事法院組織法……"],["游委員顥：為什麼當初你在提倡這個議題的時候不是用這個角度？"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有表示我們沒有用這個角度，我一直在主張軍事審判法相關違憲的地方，所以我們指出這些違憲的地方，如果沒有辦法補這些破洞的話，這一個部分我們認為就應該要回到民事審判，但是……"],["游委員顥：所以當初你認為應該要回到民事審判，你當了部長之後反而認為又要再回復嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：但我要跟委員做一個說明，你讓我有機會稍微說明。但是軍事審判法當時的第一條仍然維持戰時要進行軍事審判，所以在戰時仍然要維持軍事審判的情況之下，11年來平時如果沒有重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度，戰時是不可能會憑空成為……"],["游委員顥：所以這個是為了戰時作因應嗎？"],["顧部長立雄火：我們國防部本來就是要為平戰轉換做準備。"],["游委員顥：那為什麼2024年在提問部長的時候……"],["顧部長立雄：我們國防部所有的人都是為了平戰轉換在做準備。"],["游委員顥：對，那為什麼在去年和過去前八年的時候沒有提出？"],["顧部長立雄：我們……"],["游委員顥：在過去的時候都沒有提出，而在賴總統昨天發表講話之後就提出，過去九年期間軍事審判法到底是被怎麼定義？"],["顧部長立雄：就我理解，我們的法律司過去一直以來都在研究……"],["游委員顥：所以研究了九年？"],["顧部長立雄：平時這個審判制度，軍事審判的制度要如何能夠維繫其能量的運作，我們會維持一致的精神……"],["游委員顥：過去九年的成果是如何？因為你也擔任過許多重要的職務，所以過去九年其實完全都沒有對這個方面提出修正，而現在就是因應戰時嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我們國防部在做相關的平戰轉換，做所有的戰備任務都是在為平戰轉換做準備，我們國防部存在的價值就是隨時做好備戰的準備，我們的戰訓本務、相關的訓練……"],["游委員顥：那為什麼過去九年沒有做？當初修正的時候不提出……"],["顧部長立雄：我們相關裝備的獲得也都是如此，包括軍事審判這個課題也是如此。所以我認為，如果新的軍事審判能夠達到一個公平審判原則和正當法律程序原則，那麼這樣子重新開機的軍事審判，它就可以就現役軍人犯軍人職務上之罪這個部分來進行，我想這一個部分應該是跟我過去的見解沒有任何一個不一致的地方。"],["游委員顥：對於軍事審判法，當然未來我們也會看你們提出的版本和內容，但是我在想你剛才所提到的，那時候處理軍事審判的過程中到底是否公正，坦白講，這個是人的問題，當然可以用條文或規定來把這個降到最低，可是同樣的，你可能還是要記得，目前全國民眾對於許多的司法介入，甚至許多相關這種外力的介入，影響到包括司法上的各種判決，其實人民對於整體司法還是有很大的不信任。所以今天提出軍事審判法的調整是不是真的能夠解決這個問題，同時過去九年為什麼不提？當初在爭議這個事情的時候為什麼不提，而是現在才提？如果是因為戰時之需要，沒關係，就如你所說。","我想要接著請教一下，外交部長林佳龍部長也在今天的出席名單，部長有在嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：今天是次長代理。"],["游委員顥：次長？林佳龍部長有在這個名單上面，他今天請假嗎？"],["主席：時間暫停，特別跟游委員報告一下，外交部長今天要接待外賓，他有遞請假單由吳次長列席，您看要不要詢問吳次長。"],["游委員顥：好。"],["主席：好，請次長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：時間繼續。"],["游委員顥：沒關係，我們直接看我show的這個提案，直接有提到林佳龍委員，也就是現在的部長過去也有提出軍事審判法第一條的修正，是在洪仲丘事件那個時候所提出的，部長如果有在的話，我也想請教一下部長的看法，以及他現在對於這個案子是持什麼樣的角度，就不用請次長回答，謝謝。OK，接著就不用請次長您回答，這是針對林佳龍部長本人所提案來詢問的部分。","我們直接再問一些民生、大家非常關心的五一勞動節是不是能夠放假，過去大家一直在討論，院長一定也有評估過，洪申翰部長要不要上來？我想請教一下這個議題，五一勞動節勞工放假，但是許多的公務人員或者是包括教育人員他們沒有放假，就會變成帶小孩上會出現這個問題，大家都一直在討論，也一直在期待五一勞動節能放假，今天院長要不要跟大家宣布一下，是不是今年的五一勞動節大家可以放假，也能夠造福許多各行各業的家長。"],["卓院長榮泰：首先說的是依照現在紀念日及節日實施辦法，當初在決定的時候、在審定的時候，有一個附帶決議就說假日加起來要115到116天，我們現在是達到這個上限。"],["游委員顥：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然時空是不一樣的，社會環境會不同。"],["游委員顥：院長，我本來就預期你會這麼回復，但是……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，時空會不同、條件會不同，如果社會大家認為有一天的放假會讓社會大家在效率等等會提高，而且變動會最少，我們會願意聽聽大家的意見，這個已經討論相當多年了。"],["游委員顥：好啊！因為這個討論相當多年，但我們總是期待今年能夠有一個不一樣的結果，因為這個假日是勞工放，本來就是要感謝勞工，但是……"],["卓院長榮泰：請人事長說明一下。"],["游委員顥：我知道，我想知道的答案就是今年可不可以放？所以相關的建議，其實院長都知道，我是想要直接就教院長，今年的五一勞動節會不會做一個放假的宣示？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們公布的行事曆裡面是沒有放假。"],["游委員顥：明年的話會不會往這個方向放？我們明年的話，會不會宣示希望往五一勞動節能夠放假的方向來努力？"],["卓院長榮泰：我想包括人事長……"],["游委員顥：有院長的宣示會比較有效果……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告一下……"],["游委員顥：不然勞動部或人事行政總處的部分，他們還是沒有辦法代表行政院的態度。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們可以做幕僚分析，事實上，以勞動節來講，現在是勞工放假，那一天他們可以利用那個場域去報稅，還有做很多的……"],["游委員顥：其實最主要還是家長會遇到小孩子的問題，需要帶，所以有沒有可能能夠往五一勞動節作為放假日的方向來努力？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長補充說明一下。"],["洪部長申翰：現在五一勞動節目前適用勞基法的勞工是有放假的。"],["游委員顥：這我清楚，我勞工背景出身的。"],["洪部長申翰：對，所以我說勞動部主管的勞工本身，現在是有放假的。"],["游委員顥：我知道，我還是……部長，你還是沒有辦法回答五一勞動節到底有沒有可能來作放假日？"],["洪部長申翰：因為現在還沒有放假的是軍公教的部分。"],["游委員顥：院長回答啦！院長回答啦！院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，在實施周休二日之後，其實我們對整個放假的制度已經在一個制度化裡面去運行了，也運行這麼多年，所以並沒有所謂要再回復到那個時代幾天放假的問題，但是我們達到115、116天，這當然可以討論，社會只要認為變動最小、成本最小，而且符合全國一致性。"],["游委員顥：好，那沒關係，所以今年跟明年還是沒有答案？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們可以討論，如果它變動小、成本小、全國一致性，大家都能夠有共識，我們希望能夠討論。"],["游委員顥：大家的期待當然是希望放假，那沒關係啦！我們就直接來接著就教……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們跟委員多多的請教一下。"],["游委員顥：接著就教，預算中心的報告指出台電公司預計114年度發電燃料費比113年度減少351.46億，減幅7.96%，目前來講台電給出的預算顯示發電燃料成本是下降的，我想直接就教院長，以目前來講，我們知道很多能源配比的問題，當然部長也來陪同，今年有沒有可能不要調漲電價？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，台電在俄烏戰爭之前，在那個時候費用漲價很多，現在有稍微平緩，但是我們現在考慮它的財政結構，是因為它過去幾年用了很多的補貼需求，所以它付出很多對其他事業的補貼，所以它的財政目前是虧損的。"],["游委員顥：那今年有沒有可能不要調漲？"],["卓院長榮泰：它是虧損的，我們如果先把它的財政解決以後……"],["游委員顥：因為過去也補了2,000億，也補了500億，在今年那麼多產業、行業受到影響，今年有沒有可能能夠基於穩定物價、照顧民生，讓今年不要調漲或者是不往調漲的方向邁進？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，過去因為戰爭或者材料調漲，我們大概吸收了6,000億，事實上過去的撥補並沒有那麼高，所以它現在還存有這些負債，那我……"],["游委員顥：部長，我想直接跟您請教，這些我其實都理解，但是方向上……"],["郭部長智輝：我們會來努力，我們會來努力，但是調價與否，這個是由電價……"],["游委員顥：上次質詢的時候……"],["郭部長智輝：電價審議委員他們來決定的，所以我們會努力，我們台電自己會努力。"],["游委員顥：沒有，部長，我知道你很努力，我直接提一下，上次其實你也有提到一句，這個部分院長也是很重要的因素，我就不把原話再翻一次，希望院長能夠往穩定物價、不調漲的方式來努力。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有錯，穩定物價、反映成本，還有節約能源，將來必須使用者付費，這個都是原則，但是這個原則只會交到電價審議委員會去做審議啊！"],["游委員顥：我知道。"],["卓院長榮泰：並不是我們在這裡決定。"],["游委員顥：好啦！沒關係，所以上次有提到院長扮演一個很重要的角色，那原話我就不說，好不好？","我直接再接著就教醫護人員相關議題，護理人員目前來講，我們看到白班津貼研擬一年，目前的進展還有社會各界都在期待，想就教一下白班津貼未來發布跟薪資補貼是不是有一個宣示或是回應？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，護理人員的缺口，我們有推動12項策略，從其教考訓用增加的就學……"],["游委員顥：部長，直接回津貼的部分就可以了，直接回相關護理人員津貼部分未來的方向為何就好。"],["邱部長泰源：津貼的部分，當然除了創造更好的工作環境以外，在待遇方面，我們很清楚地來增加護理費，特別是急重症跟一般急症病房，我們昨天才通過醫院總額的協商，將會增加大概42億來增加護理費，我相信這個對於護理待遇會增加很多。"],["游委員顥：這樣就可以了。最主要是護理人員非常的辛苦，所以希望在中央政府的部分能夠重視他們的辛苦，也穩定他們的職場場域，讓他們儘可能減少流動。","同時再補充之前因急診醫護超載，轉院困難發生了許多悲劇，希望未來在部內也能夠持續針對目前急診室病房病床數不足的問題來做改善，有沒有一個簡短的回應？"],["邱部長泰源：是的，除了改善各個醫事人員的工作環境，增加應有急重症的醫事人員津貼以外，針對病人方面，特別是在急診病床的調配，我們當然也請院方能夠做靈活的調配。"],["游委員顥：部長，許多患者他們因為病床，其家屬是心急如焚，我希望這個問題一定要特別的重視。"],["邱部長泰源：我們會全力以赴來解決這個問題。"],["游委員顥：最後，剛才院長有提到團結，我在想這個團結在過去一年到今年，我們看到的是許多的撕裂，如果在許多的重大議題，行政院反而扮演一個重要角色，應該是要能夠積極、主動地讓朝野之間能夠做調和。我相信重新思考應該能夠有比較好的結果，不然就不會發生這個大惡罷，我們都要堅定的不要讓貧窮跟戰爭留給下一代，我們希望是和平發展，才是真正團結。謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝游顥委員的發言，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，本日排定的質詢委員均已質詢完畢，非常感謝卓院長、鄭副院長、各位閣員今天列席來答詢。3月18日（星期二）上午9時繼續開會，進行施政方針及施政報告之質詢，現在休息。","休息（17時49分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","王育敏","邱議瑩","陳昭姿","賴瑞隆","萬美玲","王世堅","羅廷瑋","邱志偉","呂玉玲","陳冠廷","游顥"],"page_start":28,"meetingDate":["2025-03-14"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00002","1142601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1142601_00003"}}}