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\"這個是我們希望也可以改善的因為委員說的都是現在事實因為報導者這邊我有特別看他特別舉出了一些學校那當然啦有些的這個違規的工廠他是一直過去我們對這個認知沒有那麼的多那我們現在我會去面對這個問題那這個面對這個問題呢有幾種一個是如果新設的話一定要盡量有一些更好的一個規範那至於舊有既有的話我們就要加強監測\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 205.611, \"end\": 206.472, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 206.472, \"end\": 206.712, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 206.712, \"end\": 206.832, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 206.832, \"end\": 206.972, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 206.972, \"end\": 207.112, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 207.112, \"end\": 207.212, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 207.212, \"end\": 207.332, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 207.332, \"end\": 207.532, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"善\", \"start\": 207.532, \"end\": 207.733, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 207.733, \"end\": 207.973, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"因\", 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\"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 228.485, \"end\": 229.425, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 229.425, \"end\": 229.585, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 229.585, \"end\": 229.686, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 229.686, \"end\": 230.046, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"舊\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 230.046, \"end\": 230.246, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"既\", \"start\": 230.246, \"end\": 230.386, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 230.386, \"end\": 230.526, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 230.526, \"end\": 230.846, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 230.846, \"end\": 231.046, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 231.046, \"end\": 231.146, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 231.146, \"end\": 231.246, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 231.246, \"end\": 231.266, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"測\"}]}, {\"start\": 232.227, \"end\": 240.974, \"text\": \"所以想問部長 現行的法規規範 空氣污染防治法的管住就已經是不是有不足的地方 你什麼時候要跟教育部討論\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 232.227, \"end\": 232.307, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 232.307, \"end\": 232.447, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 232.447, \"end\": 232.888, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 232.888, \"end\": 234.049, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 234.049, \"end\": 234.309, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 234.309, \"end\": 234.489, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 234.489, \"end\": 235.35, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 235.35, \"end\": 235.65, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"污\", \"start\": 235.65, \"end\": 235.77, 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\"score\": 0.51}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}]}, {\"start\": 243.064, \"end\": 264.456, \"text\": \"這個委員我們會來處理來進行好不好因為我把所有的相關的法規找出來也就看起來我們的空屋治理的法規非常的多可是沒有人負責而且政策很零碎執行也很破碎所以兒童的健康事實上是被忽略的各部門各管各的那涉及到兒童\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 243.064, \"end\": 243.285, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 243.285, \"end\": 244.645, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 244.645, \"end\": 245.126, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 245.126, \"end\": 245.326, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 245.326, \"end\": 245.426, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 245.426, \"end\": 245.446, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 245.446, \"end\": 245.886, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 245.886, \"end\": 246.126, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 246.126, \"end\": 246.926, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 246.926, \"end\": 247.107, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 247.107, \"end\": 247.267, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 247.267, \"end\": 247.367, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 247.367, \"end\": 247.547, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 247.547, \"end\": 248.047, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 248.047, \"end\": 248.287, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 248.287, \"end\": 249.028, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"找\", \"start\": 249.028, \"end\": 249.288, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 249.288, \"end\": 250.748, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 250.748, \"end\": 250.848, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 250.848, \"end\": 251.089, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"看\", 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\"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 285.358, \"end\": 285.798, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 285.798, \"end\": 286.099, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 286.099, \"end\": 286.299, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 286.299, \"end\": 286.319, \"score\": 0.998}]}, {\"start\": 287.352, \"end\": 302.825, \"text\": \"那教育部呢在選校的時候的確會考量空窩可是沒有明確的標準這真的讓我們覺得很可笑因為孩子健康就掌握在尤其事實上選校子之後呢工廠怎麼設好像都沒有特別去規範\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 287.352, \"end\": 287.993, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 287.993, \"end\": 288.133, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 288.133, \"end\": 288.233, \"score\": 0.579}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 288.233, \"end\": 288.393, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 288.393, \"end\": 288.953, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 288.953, \"end\": 289.674, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 289.674, \"end\": 289.914, 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\"text\": \"所以僅依環保署的法規去調整體育課就叫孩子你體育課不要出來就好了那衛福部的兒童機構的那個環境規劃更偏向於環境清潔跟事故預防未設標準所以我想問國監署你2023年我們的兒圈公約的15號意見書就已經出來了針對健康權\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 303.666, \"end\": 303.846, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 303.846, \"end\": 304.026, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"僅\"}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 304.026, \"end\": 304.506, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 304.506, \"end\": 304.847, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 304.847, \"end\": 305.087, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 305.087, \"end\": 305.307, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 305.307, \"end\": 305.707, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 305.707, \"end\": 306.127, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 306.127, \"end\": 306.367, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 306.367, \"end\": 307.288, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"課\"}, 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311.269, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 311.269, \"end\": 311.43, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 311.43, \"end\": 311.89, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 311.89, \"end\": 312.15, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"童\", \"start\": 312.15, \"end\": 313.41, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"構\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 313.41, \"end\": 313.711, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 313.711, \"end\": 314.251, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 314.251, \"end\": 315.211, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 315.211, \"end\": 315.471, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"偏\", \"start\": 315.471, \"end\": 315.771, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 315.771, \"end\": 316.072, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 316.072, \"end\": 316.512, \"score\": 0.902}, 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{\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 320.454, \"end\": 320.514, \"score\": 0.657}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 320.514, \"end\": 320.534, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 320.534, \"end\": 320.714, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 320.714, \"end\": 320.834, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 320.834, \"end\": 320.894, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"圈\", \"start\": 320.894, \"end\": 321.014, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 321.014, \"end\": 321.034, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 321.034, \"end\": 321.114, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 321.114, \"end\": 321.134, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 321.134, \"end\": 321.154, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 321.154, \"end\": 321.234, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 321.234, \"end\": 321.414, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 321.414, \"end\": 322.174, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 322.174, \"end\": 322.334, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"康\", \"start\": 322.334, \"end\": 322.354, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"權\"}]}, {\"start\": 328.237, \"end\": 350.482, \"text\": \"到2023年2013年出來15號一間2023年到26號一間書在提到氣候權的時候都也提到了所謂這樣的空污對他的所以我不知道我們的國健署在主管健康你對衛福部在訂兒少權法甚至修正的時候都沒有提嗎好 國健署委員我是不是請國健署來回答謝謝委員這部分我們後續可以再來做\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 328.237, \"end\": 329.337, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 329.337, \"end\": 330.057, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": 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0.833}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 890.26, \"end\": 890.28, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,199 --> 00:00:28,889\n麻煩我們的部長還有我們的監測資訊師的師長還有教育部資訊及科技教育師的專門委員和我們的國民健康署科長監測師的師長還有教育科技還有國健謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:40,371 --> 00:00:57,169\n部長早我覺得我肯定環境部在空房制上的努力可是在報告中部長你也提到當供給品質惡化時主管機關應該要採取更應變的房制跟\n\n3\n00:00:57,662 --> 00:01:22,405\n健康防護措施來依據我們的氣象固定的污染源跟移動污染源等特性公告並執行防治措施那包括工廠汽車輛的排放跟營建工地的管理跟提醒敏感族群的防護那也強調要加強保護我們的敏感族群針對不同污染物\n\n4\n00:01:22,950 --> 00:01:35,684\n能夠採取不同的應變措施像工廠的排放管控跟加油站我們的油氣的回收可是我也想問部長你所謂的敏感族群是不是\n\n5\n00:01:36,266 --> 00:01:52,766\n有區分大人跟小孩所以我想針對這一點來跟部長做討論部長我一直都認為我覺得一個問題為什麼學校跟固定的產生空屋工廠的距離\n\n6\n00:01:53,486 --> 00:02:15,307\n至今是沒有明確的規範那根據報導者調查全台有141所國小31所國中距離500公尺都有違規的工廠其中28間學校周遭甚至有2間以上的違規工廠那校園跟這樣子的污染源的距離規範我們看到的是什麼\n\n7\n00:02:15,686 --> 00:02:41,636\n去年我針對學校周邊的潛在危險設施提出規範要求加油站設置距離應納入幼兒園保護範圍可是去年11月教育部回函支持表示會跟經濟部研議修正法規可是至今也是沒有下文那兒少全法第47條也規定只要有害兒童身心健康的營業場所都必須距離\n\n8\n00:02:42,496 --> 00:02:58,352\n學校有200公尺以上那2024年呢環境部也預告修正我們的移動污染源違反空氣污染防治法裁罰準則的時候如果柴油車跟機車排放的污染物影響學校罰款加重1.5倍所以部長工廠\n\n9\n00:03:02,964 --> 00:03:23,256\n排放的污染不會遇到學校就轉彎喔我們固定場所已經事實上都還要200公尺那可是他會他所以這樣污染源他會隨著空氣風向轉向學校我們對於交通跟營業場所都有一些距離的管制可是卻對這些污染的工廠沒有辦法管這樣對嗎\n\n10\n00:03:25,611 --> 00:03:51,266\n這個是我們希望也可以改善的因為委員說的都是現在事實因為報導者這邊我有特別看他特別舉出了一些學校那當然啦有些的這個違規的工廠他是一直過去我們對這個認知沒有那麼的多那我們現在我會去面對這個問題那這個面對這個問題呢有幾種一個是如果新設的話一定要盡量有一些更好的一個規範那至於舊有既有的話我們就要加強監測\n\n11\n00:03:52,227 --> 00:04:00,974\n所以想問部長現行的法規規範空氣污染防治法的管住就已經是不是有不足的地方你什麼時候要跟教育部討論\n\n12\n00:04:03,064 --> 00:04:24,456\n這個委員我們會來處理來進行好不好因為我把所有的相關的法規找出來也就看起來我們的空屋治理的法規非常的多可是沒有人負責而且政策很零碎執行也很破碎所以兒童的健康事實上是被忽略的各部門各管各的那涉及到兒童\n\n13\n00:04:25,436 --> 00:04:46,319\n跟空污的法規關係大概有12項其中前面環境部的前4項跟教育部的前3項總共7項事實上是有一些關聯性的可是環境部只針對我們的空氣品質惡化時規範學校應變措施簡單來講就是說發生事情的時候再來管理\n\n14\n00:04:47,352 --> 00:05:02,825\n那教育部呢在選校的時候的確會考量空窩可是沒有明確的標準這真的讓我們覺得很可笑因為孩子健康就掌握在尤其事實上選校子之後呢工廠怎麼設好像都沒有特別去規範\n\n15\n00:05:03,666 --> 00:05:22,354\n所以僅依環保署的法規去調整體育課就叫孩子你體育課不要出來就好了那衛福部的兒童機構的那個環境規劃更偏向於環境清潔跟事故預防未設標準所以我想問國監署你2023年我們的兒圈公約的15號意見書就已經出來了針對健康權\n\n16\n00:05:28,237 --> 00:05:50,482\n到2023年2013年出來15號一間2023年到26號一間書在提到氣候權的時候都也提到了所謂這樣的空污對他的所以我不知道我們的國健署在主管健康你對衛福部在訂兒少權法甚至修正的時候都沒有提嗎好國健署委員我是不是請國健署來回答謝謝委員這部分我們後續可以再來做\n\n17\n00:05:58,049 --> 00:06:23,639\n因為兒權公約我們從2014年國內法化之後都到現在為什麼國健署在監管我們兒童健康的反而事實上是沒有回應好國健署請回教育部要不要回應一下我還有教育部要回的所以以兒少權法為例我們的第七條就明確規定中央政府主管機關包括教育跟勞工跟經濟14個機關\n\n18\n00:06:26,434 --> 00:06:35,325\n可是環境部沒有列入那這也代表環境部對兒童的權益事實上是被忽略的所以想問部長你認為在兒少權益環境部的責任是什麼\n\n19\n00:06:39,291 --> 00:07:00,471\n我贊同委員這個對於一些例如敏感族群兒少的教育場所特別常出沒的那我們是現在有針對一些例如說幼教的場所有在進行但是委員你提到的這個的確是對可是我就覺得很納悶為什麼因為室內空氣品質管理法裡面它第六條有針對於各個\n\n20\n00:07:02,045 --> 00:07:23,110\n場域裡邊要逐步的去公布說哪些場域要被歸管那環境部先後公告了前面11項應該講第二項到11項可獨獨第一項目前針對於我們的所謂教學場所竟然只公告了大學醫院政府辦公室大眾運輸跟娛樂場所\n\n21\n00:07:25,211 --> 00:07:41,026\n那我們最重要最重要是越幼小的孩子更需要被保護反而事實上是獨立高級中等以下學校跟兒少教育跟活動場域這讓我覺得蠻特別2018年我們本黨的立委許智傑委員也有提\n\n22\n00:07:41,807 --> 00:08:01,074\n出來跟教育部要求可是當時事實上到現在都還沒有去做這樣的一個考量可是老人的福祉機構都早一批被公佈了為什麼我們的兒少機構那我覺得我們的教育部跟環境部有互踢皮球嗎所以何時納管所以環境部跟教育部給我一個時間\n\n23\n00:08:03,172 --> 00:08:12,475\n委員這個目前是幼兒園或托嬰中心是有啦委員說的高中跟國小這個我們會再來討論可不可以給個時間教育部要不要\n\n24\n00:08:13,769 --> 00:08:40,379\n跟委員報告一下因為之前在幼教階段的部分因為幼教的場所因為蠻多大概六千多所學校那每一所學校他如果要符合那個環境部的那個空評的規標我講的是給我一個時間好不好我們盡快啦就是跟環境部來一起推動因為那部分的標準是真的還蠻嚴格的那需要需要一段的時間來推動\n\n25\n00:08:42,031 --> 00:09:09,953\n好那環境部呢這個我們會來研議因為委員你說的就是說高中國中國小其實這個部分的確是缺的我們是針對幼兒園那些托嬰中心大學都管了可是反而事實上是高中以下的都沒在管可是世界衛生組織跟我們的聯合國兒童基金會都特別提醒說兒少是環境跟空氣污染影響最嚴重的族群\n\n26\n00:09:11,636 --> 00:09:22,124\n目前很多時候工廠設在學校旁邊我們到底對學生的健康保護到底在哪裡尤其他也提出來說今天孩子因為呼吸\n\n27\n00:09:23,317 --> 00:09:51,895\n速度比較快活動量高所以他的呼吸系統的發育還沒有成熟的時候他對於空氣汙染對他的影響比成人還更嚴重反而你去保護我們已經滿18歲以上18歲以下的完全不去做歸管所以我想問部長說現行的我們的檢測標準真的能夠保護健康嗎那我想也要問你們說那你們認定到底這樣的標準事實上應該要比大人更嚴格呢還是跟大人一樣\n\n28\n00:09:53,257 --> 00:10:09,066\n從學理上應該是要更嚴格啦例如說大人的標準他小朋友應該更嚴格一點那他是更要被保護的族群你們至今第一個沒有沒有去歸管另外一個事實上是也沒有一些標準在那沒有標準的結果就是做什麼呢就是叫孩子呢\n\n29\n00:10:09,451 --> 00:10:29,451\n反正你關窗嘛忍耐嘛戴口罩那難道就成為唯一的選擇嗎因為現在檢測方式根本沒有辦法去真實反映學校周遭的周邊的污染現況所以也試問現在站在場上的各位能接受每天上班的時候聞到濾青或工廠排放的廢氣的臭味嗎\n\n30\n00:10:31,012 --> 00:10:55,710\n可是現在就是都是現實我們學童遇到的一些狀況很多學生呢學校的師生因為吸入異味出現我們的頭暈耳心甚至身體不適的狀況可是為什麼不知道你們檢測空氣品質卻顯示空氣品質正常這個有沒有檢舉的時間跟稽查的時間根本兜不上甚至有沒有人通風報信\n\n31\n00:10:57,921 --> 00:11:24,205\n我們怎麼會是品質這樣如果孩子都已經聞到所以部長請說明一下目前學校周邊發生異味的時候聞到不舒服檢測卻又正常這種跟事實脫節的狀況原因你覺得是什麼第一個是檢測這樣不夠因為學校它其實都是屬於這種微氣候所造成的影響第一個是要可能要增加一些檢測的設備所以我們目前這個會加強那委員提到的\n\n32\n00:11:25,146 --> 00:11:51,526\n針對這個弱勢的這個族群我們會第一個是到底弱勢的族群他的這個AQI的標準要設到多少這個我們現在會來研議做這個事情那委員關心的部分呢再容許再給我們一點時間我們跟教育部一起來討論對那就要問教育部你除了叫孩子忍耐關窗戴口罩那到底為什麼孩子要忍我們自己大人都聞不下去了那所以你有沒有其他的應對的方式\n\n33\n00:11:52,802 --> 00:12:11,720\n跟委員報告一下就是我們剛委員有列出我們相關的一些針對空瓶的一些因應規範其實我們有針對弱勢族群就是呃呃而且比較身體比較脆弱敏感的族群有做一些相關的一些應變還有演練而這份我們也是我們我們尊重我們我們尊重西亞系的一個一個規範來做相關的一些關懷和呃緊急的應變處理好\n\n34\n00:12:16,264 --> 00:12:44,501\n有請環境部在三個月內召開跨部會的會議針對學校跟兒童出沒的一個區域空屋標準應該召開專家學者會議而且要以孩子的標準不是用大人的標準能不能辦到好可以委員謝謝委員的建議再給我一點時間稍微我照樣站起來那最後我還是要問教育部因為空屋不是環境問題更是影響到學生受教權\n\n35\n00:12:46,072 --> 00:13:06,830\n那平不平等的狀況那我的選區我應該講說我的認養區域是觀音區那他的樹林國小報道率僅剩下三成全校僅剩下112人其中三分之一是單親跟低收入戶的學生內這些弱勢家庭你覺得他遇到空污的時候他們有選擇權嗎教育部\n\n36\n00:13:10,838 --> 00:13:34,514\n這個部分不理會來重申委員提的這幾個學校我們也會你剛才講敏感族群你要保護我覺得連弱勢為什麼因為當學校周遭長期受汙染家長呢當然不得不要讓孩子轉學或跨學區就讀那是有能力的有能力的家庭可是如果事實上是沒有能力的家庭因為他是弱勢那你對弱勢支持是什麼就是繼續讓他們在更遏制的環境當中\n\n37\n00:13:37,591 --> 00:14:03,589\n那他的健康我常常說若是家庭經不起健康的問題他們沒有財力去處理他的健康所以教育部是不是能夠去檢討有什麼機制協助這些孩子這些家庭在目前沒辦法處理的時候能不能符合最佳利益孩子最佳利益事實上是補貼交通費用讓他們離開這個環境嗎去其他學校就讀嗎\n\n38\n00:14:04,677 --> 00:14:25,024\n還是事實上因為他根本事實上是沒有辦法搬離這個地方所以請教一部先做一些評估一樣的跟我們的環境部在三個月內給我一個報告最後當然就是期待我們建立學校周邊的污染工廠的距離還有依據不同工廠樣態進行\n\n39\n00:14:26,806 --> 00:14:43,923\n我們的盤點整頓的一些規範然後第二個教育部應該針對空屋的風險高的學校裡面有具體的協助機制第三個三個月內將高中值以下納入到我們的室內空氣品質管理法的那個監測範圍第四針對兒少專屬\n\n40\n00:14:46,598 --> 00:14:50,280\n空污的標準呢三個月內召集專家學者召開專家學者會議謝謝趙偉謝謝委員很好的建議謝謝我們會納入參考謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10199\t28889\t麻煩我們的部長還有我們的監測資訊師的師長還有教育部資訊及科技教育師的專門委員和我們的國民健康署科長監測師的師長還有教育科技還有國健謝謝\n40371\t57169\t部長早我覺得我肯定環境部在空房制上的努力可是在報告中部長你也提到當供給品質惡化時主管機關應該要採取更應變的房制跟\n57662\t82405\t健康防護措施來依據我們的氣象固定的污染源跟移動污染源等特性公告並執行防治措施那包括工廠汽車輛的排放跟營建工地的管理跟提醒敏感族群的防護那也強調要加強保護我們的敏感族群針對不同污染物\n82950\t95684\t能夠採取不同的應變措施 像工廠的排放管控跟加油站我們的油氣的回收可是我也想問部長你所謂的敏感族群是不是\n96266\t112766\t有區分大人跟小孩所以我想針對這一點來跟部長做討論部長我一直都認為我覺得一個問題為什麼學校跟固定的產生空屋工廠的距離\n113486\t135307\t至今是沒有明確的規範那根據報導者調查全台有141所國小31所國中距離500公尺都有違規的工廠其中28間學校周遭甚至有2間以上的違規工廠那校園跟這樣子的污染源的距離規範我們看到的是什麼\n135686\t161636\t去年我針對學校周邊的潛在危險設施提出規範要求加油站設置距離應納入幼兒園保護範圍可是去年11月教育部回函支持表示會跟經濟部研議修正法規可是至今也是沒有下文那兒少全法第47條也規定只要有害兒童身心健康的營業場所都必須距離\n162496\t178352\t學校有200公尺以上那2024年呢環境部也預告修正我們的移動污染源違反空氣污染防治法裁罰準則的時候如果柴油車跟機車排放的污染物影響學校罰款加重1.5倍所以部長工廠\n182964\t203256\t排放的污染不會遇到學校就轉彎喔我們固定場所已經事實上都還要200公尺那可是他會他所以這樣污染源他會隨著空氣風向轉向學校我們對於交通跟營業場所都有一些距離的管制可是卻對這些污染的工廠沒有辦法管這樣對嗎\n205611\t231266\t這個是我們希望也可以改善的因為委員說的都是現在事實因為報導者這邊我有特別看他特別舉出了一些學校那當然啦有些的這個違規的工廠他是一直過去我們對這個認知沒有那麼的多那我們現在我會去面對這個問題那這個面對這個問題呢有幾種一個是如果新設的話一定要盡量有一些更好的一個規範那至於舊有既有的話我們就要加強監測\n232227\t240974\t所以想問部長 現行的法規規範 空氣污染防治法的管住就已經是不是有不足的地方 你什麼時候要跟教育部討論\n243064\t264456\t這個委員我們會來處理來進行好不好因為我把所有的相關的法規找出來也就看起來我們的空屋治理的法規非常的多可是沒有人負責而且政策很零碎執行也很破碎所以兒童的健康事實上是被忽略的各部門各管各的那涉及到兒童\n265436\t286319\t跟空污的法規關係大概有12項其中前面環境部的前4項跟教育部的前3項總共7項事實上是有一些關聯性的可是環境部只針對我們的空氣品質惡化時規範學校應變措施簡單來講就是說發生事情的時候再來管理\n287352\t302825\t那教育部呢在選校的時候的確會考量空窩可是沒有明確的標準這真的讓我們覺得很可笑因為孩子健康就掌握在尤其事實上選校子之後呢工廠怎麼設好像都沒有特別去規範\n303666\t322354\t所以僅依環保署的法規去調整體育課就叫孩子你體育課不要出來就好了那衛福部的兒童機構的那個環境規劃更偏向於環境清潔跟事故預防未設標準所以我想問國監署你2023年我們的兒圈公約的15號意見書就已經出來了針對健康權\n328237\t350482\t到2023年2013年出來15號一間2023年到26號一間書在提到氣候權的時候都也提到了所謂這樣的空污對他的所以我不知道我們的國健署在主管健康你對衛福部在訂兒少權法甚至修正的時候都沒有提嗎好 國健署委員我是不是請國健署來回答謝謝委員這部分我們後續可以再來做\n358049\t383639\t因為兒權公約我們從2014年國內法化之後都到現在為什麼國健署在監管我們兒童健康的反而事實上是沒有回應好 國健署請回教育部要不要回應一下我還有教育部要回的所以以兒少權法為例我們的第七條就明確規定中央政府主管機關包括教育跟勞工跟經濟14個機關\n386434\t395325\t可是環境部沒有列入那這也代表環境部對兒童的權益事實上是被忽略的所以想問部長你認為在兒少權益環境部的責任是什麼\n399291\t420471\t我贊同委員這個對於一些例如敏感族群兒少的教育場所特別常出沒的那我們是現在有針對一些例如說幼教的場所有在進行但是委員你提到的這個的確是對可是我就覺得很納悶為什麼因為室內空氣品質管理法裡面它第六條有針對於各個\n422045\t443110\t場域裡邊要逐步的去公布說哪些場域要被歸管那環境部先後公告了前面11項應該講第二項到11項可獨獨第一項目前針對於我們的所謂教學場所竟然只公告了大學醫院政府辦公室大眾運輸跟娛樂場所\n445211\t461026\t那我們最重要最重要是越幼小的孩子更需要被保護反而事實上是獨立高級中等以下學校跟兒少教育跟活動場域這讓我覺得蠻特別2018年我們本黨的立委許智傑委員也有提\n461807\t481074\t出來跟教育部要求可是當時事實上到現在都還沒有去做這樣的一個考量可是老人的福祉機構都早一批被公佈了為什麼我們的兒少機構那我覺得我們的教育部跟環境部有互踢皮球嗎所以何時納管所以環境部跟教育部給我一個時間\n483172\t492475\t委員這個目前是幼兒園或托嬰中心是有啦委員說的高中跟國小這個我們會再來討論可不可以給個時間教育部要不要\n493769\t520379\t跟委員報告一下因為之前在幼教階段的部分因為幼教的場所因為蠻多大概六千多所學校那每一所學校他如果要符合那個環境部的那個空評的規標我講的是給我一個時間好不好我們盡快啦就是跟環境部來一起推動因為那部分的標準是真的還蠻嚴格的那需要需要一段的時間來推動\n522031\t549953\t好那環境部呢這個我們會來研議因為委員你說的就是說高中國中國小其實這個部分的確是缺的我們是針對幼兒園那些托嬰中心大學都管了可是反而事實上是高中以下的都沒在管可是世界衛生組織跟我們的聯合國兒童基金會都特別提醒說兒少是環境跟空氣污染影響最嚴重的族群\n551636\t562124\t目前很多時候工廠設在學校旁邊我們到底對學生的健康保護到底在哪裡尤其他也提出來說今天孩子因為呼吸\n563317\t591895\t速度比較快 活動量高所以他的呼吸系統的發育還沒有成熟的時候他對於空氣汙染對他的影響比成人還更嚴重反而你去保護我們已經滿18歲以上18歲以下的完全不去做歸管所以我想問部長說現行的我們的檢測標準真的能夠保護健康嗎那我想也要問你們說那你們認定到底這樣的標準事實上應該要比大人更嚴格呢還是跟大人一樣\n593257\t609066\t從學理上應該是要更嚴格啦例如說大人的標準他小朋友應該更嚴格一點那他是更要被保護的族群你們至今第一個沒有沒有去歸管另外一個事實上是也沒有一些標準在那沒有標準的結果就是做什麼呢就是叫孩子呢\n609451\t629451\t反正你關窗嘛 忍耐嘛 戴口罩那難道就成為唯一的選擇嗎因為現在檢測方式根本沒有辦法去真實反映學校周遭的周邊的污染現況所以也試問現在站在場上的各位能接受每天上班的時候聞到濾青或工廠排放的廢氣的臭味嗎\n631012\t655710\t可是現在就是都是現實我們學童遇到的一些狀況很多學生呢學校的師生因為吸入異味出現我們的頭暈耳心甚至身體不適的狀況可是為什麼不知道你們檢測空氣品質卻顯示空氣品質正常這個有沒有檢舉的時間跟稽查的時間根本兜不上甚至有沒有人通風報信\n657921\t684205\t我們怎麼會是品質這樣 如果孩子都已經聞到所以部長請說明一下目前學校周邊發生異味的時候 聞到不舒服檢測卻又正常 這種跟事實脫節的狀況原因你覺得是什麼第一個是檢測這樣不夠 因為學校它其實都是屬於這種微氣候所造成的影響第一個是要可能要增加一些檢測的設備 所以我們目前這個會加強 那委員提到的\n685146\t711526\t針對這個弱勢的這個族群我們會第一個是到底弱勢的族群他的這個AQI的標準要設到多少這個我們現在會來研議做這個事情那委員關心的部分呢再容許再給我們一點時間我們跟教育部一起來討論對那就要問教育部你除了叫孩子忍耐關窗戴口罩那到底為什麼孩子要忍我們自己大人都聞不下去了那所以你有沒有其他的應對的方式\n712802\t731720\t跟委員報告一下就是我們剛委員有列出我們相關的一些針對空瓶的一些因應規範其實我們有針對弱勢族群就是呃呃而且比較身體比較脆弱敏感的族群有做一些相關的一些應變還有演練而這份我們也是我們我們尊重我們我們尊重西亞系的一個一個規範來做相關的一些關懷和呃緊急的應變處理好\n736264\t764501\t有請環境部在三個月內召開跨部會的會議針對學校跟兒童出沒的一個區域空屋標準應該召開專家學者會議而且要以孩子的標準不是用大人的標準能不能辦到好可以委員謝謝委員的建議再給我一點時間稍微我照樣站起來那最後我還是要問教育部因為空屋不是環境問題更是影響到學生受教權\n766072\t786830\t那平不平等的狀況那我的選區 我應該講說我的認養區域是觀音區那他的樹林國小報道率僅剩下三成全校僅剩下112人其中三分之一是單親跟低收入戶的學生內這些弱勢家庭 你覺得他遇到空污的時候他們有選擇權嗎教育部\n790838\t814514\t這個部分不理會來重申委員提的這幾個學校我們也會你剛才講敏感族群你要保護我覺得連弱勢為什麼因為當學校周遭長期受汙染家長呢當然不得不要讓孩子轉學或跨學區就讀那是有能力的有能力的家庭可是如果事實上是沒有能力的家庭因為他是弱勢那你對弱勢支持是什麼就是繼續讓他們在更遏制的環境當中\n817591\t843589\t那他的健康 我常常說若是家庭經不起健康的問題他們沒有財力去處理他的健康所以教育部是不是能夠去檢討有什麼機制協助這些孩子這些家庭在目前沒辦法處理的時候能不能符合最佳利益 孩子最佳利益事實上是補貼交通費用讓他們離開這個環境嗎去其他學校就讀嗎\n844677\t865024\t還是事實上因為他根本事實上是沒有辦法搬離這個地方所以請教一部先做一些評估一樣的跟我們的環境部在三個月內給我一個報告最後當然就是期待我們建立學校周邊的污染工廠的距離還有依據不同工廠樣態進行\n866806\t883923\t我們的盤點整頓的一些規範然後第二個教育部應該針對空屋的風險高的學校裡面有具體的協助機制第三個三個月內將高中值以下納入到我們的室內空氣品質管理法的那個監測範圍第四針對兒少專屬\n886598\t890280\t空污的標準呢 三個月內召集專家學者召開專家學者會議謝謝 趙偉謝謝委員很好的建議 謝謝我們會納入參考 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"麻煩我們的部長還有我們的監測資訊師的師長還有教育部資訊及科技教育師的專門委員和我們的國民健康署科長監測師的師長還有教育科技還有國健謝謝\n部長早我覺得我肯定環境部在空房制上的努力可是在報告中部長你也提到當供給品質惡化時主管機關應該要採取更應變的房制跟\n健康防護措施來依據我們的氣象固定的污染源跟移動污染源等特性公告並執行防治措施那包括工廠汽車輛的排放跟營建工地的管理跟提醒敏感族群的防護那也強調要加強保護我們的敏感族群針對不同污染物\n能夠採取不同的應變措施 像工廠的排放管控跟加油站我們的油氣的回收可是我也想問部長你所謂的敏感族群是不是\n有區分大人跟小孩所以我想針對這一點來跟部長做討論部長我一直都認為我覺得一個問題為什麼學校跟固定的產生空屋工廠的距離\n至今是沒有明確的規範那根據報導者調查全台有141所國小31所國中距離500公尺都有違規的工廠其中28間學校周遭甚至有2間以上的違規工廠那校園跟這樣子的污染源的距離規範我們看到的是什麼\n去年我針對學校周邊的潛在危險設施提出規範要求加油站設置距離應納入幼兒園保護範圍可是去年11月教育部回函支持表示會跟經濟部研議修正法規可是至今也是沒有下文那兒少全法第47條也規定只要有害兒童身心健康的營業場所都必須距離\n學校有200公尺以上那2024年呢環境部也預告修正我們的移動污染源違反空氣污染防治法裁罰準則的時候如果柴油車跟機車排放的污染物影響學校罰款加重1.5倍所以部長工廠\n排放的污染不會遇到學校就轉彎喔我們固定場所已經事實上都還要200公尺那可是他會他所以這樣污染源他會隨著空氣風向轉向學校我們對於交通跟營業場所都有一些距離的管制可是卻對這些污染的工廠沒有辦法管這樣對嗎\n這個是我們希望也可以改善的因為委員說的都是現在事實因為報導者這邊我有特別看他特別舉出了一些學校那當然啦有些的這個違規的工廠他是一直過去我們對這個認知沒有那麼的多那我們現在我會去面對這個問題那這個面對這個問題呢有幾種一個是如果新設的話一定要盡量有一些更好的一個規範那至於舊有既有的話我們就要加強監測\n所以想問部長 現行的法規規範 空氣污染防治法的管住就已經是不是有不足的地方 你什麼時候要跟教育部討論\n這個委員我們會來處理來進行好不好因為我把所有的相關的法規找出來也就看起來我們的空屋治理的法規非常的多可是沒有人負責而且政策很零碎執行也很破碎所以兒童的健康事實上是被忽略的各部門各管各的那涉及到兒童\n跟空污的法規關係大概有12項其中前面環境部的前4項跟教育部的前3項總共7項事實上是有一些關聯性的可是環境部只針對我們的空氣品質惡化時規範學校應變措施簡單來講就是說發生事情的時候再來管理\n那教育部呢在選校的時候的確會考量空窩可是沒有明確的標準這真的讓我們覺得很可笑因為孩子健康就掌握在尤其事實上選校子之後呢工廠怎麼設好像都沒有特別去規範\n所以僅依環保署的法規去調整體育課就叫孩子你體育課不要出來就好了那衛福部的兒童機構的那個環境規劃更偏向於環境清潔跟事故預防未設標準所以我想問國監署你2023年我們的兒圈公約的15號意見書就已經出來了針對健康權\n到2023年2013年出來15號一間2023年到26號一間書在提到氣候權的時候都也提到了所謂這樣的空污對他的所以我不知道我們的國健署在主管健康你對衛福部在訂兒少權法甚至修正的時候都沒有提嗎好 國健署委員我是不是請國健署來回答謝謝委員這部分我們後續可以再來做\n因為兒權公約我們從2014年國內法化之後都到現在為什麼國健署在監管我們兒童健康的反而事實上是沒有回應好 國健署請回教育部要不要回應一下我還有教育部要回的所以以兒少權法為例我們的第七條就明確規定中央政府主管機關包括教育跟勞工跟經濟14個機關\n可是環境部沒有列入那這也代表環境部對兒童的權益事實上是被忽略的所以想問部長你認為在兒少權益環境部的責任是什麼\n我贊同委員這個對於一些例如敏感族群兒少的教育場所特別常出沒的那我們是現在有針對一些例如說幼教的場所有在進行但是委員你提到的這個的確是對可是我就覺得很納悶為什麼因為室內空氣品質管理法裡面它第六條有針對於各個\n場域裡邊要逐步的去公布說哪些場域要被歸管那環境部先後公告了前面11項應該講第二項到11項可獨獨第一項目前針對於我們的所謂教學場所竟然只公告了大學醫院政府辦公室大眾運輸跟娛樂場所\n那我們最重要最重要是越幼小的孩子更需要被保護反而事實上是獨立高級中等以下學校跟兒少教育跟活動場域這讓我覺得蠻特別2018年我們本黨的立委許智傑委員也有提\n出來跟教育部要求可是當時事實上到現在都還沒有去做這樣的一個考量可是老人的福祉機構都早一批被公佈了為什麼我們的兒少機構那我覺得我們的教育部跟環境部有互踢皮球嗎所以何時納管所以環境部跟教育部給我一個時間\n委員這個目前是幼兒園或托嬰中心是有啦委員說的高中跟國小這個我們會再來討論可不可以給個時間教育部要不要\n跟委員報告一下因為之前在幼教階段的部分因為幼教的場所因為蠻多大概六千多所學校那每一所學校他如果要符合那個環境部的那個空評的規標我講的是給我一個時間好不好我們盡快啦就是跟環境部來一起推動因為那部分的標準是真的還蠻嚴格的那需要需要一段的時間來推動\n好那環境部呢這個我們會來研議因為委員你說的就是說高中國中國小其實這個部分的確是缺的我們是針對幼兒園那些托嬰中心大學都管了可是反而事實上是高中以下的都沒在管可是世界衛生組織跟我們的聯合國兒童基金會都特別提醒說兒少是環境跟空氣污染影響最嚴重的族群\n目前很多時候工廠設在學校旁邊我們到底對學生的健康保護到底在哪裡尤其他也提出來說今天孩子因為呼吸\n速度比較快 活動量高所以他的呼吸系統的發育還沒有成熟的時候他對於空氣汙染對他的影響比成人還更嚴重反而你去保護我們已經滿18歲以上18歲以下的完全不去做歸管所以我想問部長說現行的我們的檢測標準真的能夠保護健康嗎那我想也要問你們說那你們認定到底這樣的標準事實上應該要比大人更嚴格呢還是跟大人一樣\n從學理上應該是要更嚴格啦例如說大人的標準他小朋友應該更嚴格一點那他是更要被保護的族群你們至今第一個沒有沒有去歸管另外一個事實上是也沒有一些標準在那沒有標準的結果就是做什麼呢就是叫孩子呢\n反正你關窗嘛 忍耐嘛 戴口罩那難道就成為唯一的選擇嗎因為現在檢測方式根本沒有辦法去真實反映學校周遭的周邊的污染現況所以也試問現在站在場上的各位能接受每天上班的時候聞到濾青或工廠排放的廢氣的臭味嗎\n可是現在就是都是現實我們學童遇到的一些狀況很多學生呢學校的師生因為吸入異味出現我們的頭暈耳心甚至身體不適的狀況可是為什麼不知道你們檢測空氣品質卻顯示空氣品質正常這個有沒有檢舉的時間跟稽查的時間根本兜不上甚至有沒有人通風報信\n我們怎麼會是品質這樣 如果孩子都已經聞到所以部長請說明一下目前學校周邊發生異味的時候 聞到不舒服檢測卻又正常 這種跟事實脫節的狀況原因你覺得是什麼第一個是檢測這樣不夠 因為學校它其實都是屬於這種微氣候所造成的影響第一個是要可能要增加一些檢測的設備 所以我們目前這個會加強 那委員提到的\n針對這個弱勢的這個族群我們會第一個是到底弱勢的族群他的這個AQI的標準要設到多少這個我們現在會來研議做這個事情那委員關心的部分呢再容許再給我們一點時間我們跟教育部一起來討論對那就要問教育部你除了叫孩子忍耐關窗戴口罩那到底為什麼孩子要忍我們自己大人都聞不下去了那所以你有沒有其他的應對的方式\n跟委員報告一下就是我們剛委員有列出我們相關的一些針對空瓶的一些因應規範其實我們有針對弱勢族群就是呃呃而且比較身體比較脆弱敏感的族群有做一些相關的一些應變還有演練而這份我們也是我們我們尊重我們我們尊重西亞系的一個一個規範來做相關的一些關懷和呃緊急的應變處理好\n有請環境部在三個月內召開跨部會的會議針對學校跟兒童出沒的一個區域空屋標準應該召開專家學者會議而且要以孩子的標準不是用大人的標準能不能辦到好可以委員謝謝委員的建議再給我一點時間稍微我照樣站起來那最後我還是要問教育部因為空屋不是環境問題更是影響到學生受教權\n那平不平等的狀況那我的選區 我應該講說我的認養區域是觀音區那他的樹林國小報道率僅剩下三成全校僅剩下112人其中三分之一是單親跟低收入戶的學生內這些弱勢家庭 你覺得他遇到空污的時候他們有選擇權嗎教育部\n這個部分不理會來重申委員提的這幾個學校我們也會你剛才講敏感族群你要保護我覺得連弱勢為什麼因為當學校周遭長期受汙染家長呢當然不得不要讓孩子轉學或跨學區就讀那是有能力的有能力的家庭可是如果事實上是沒有能力的家庭因為他是弱勢那你對弱勢支持是什麼就是繼續讓他們在更遏制的環境當中\n那他的健康 我常常說若是家庭經不起健康的問題他們沒有財力去處理他的健康所以教育部是不是能夠去檢討有什麼機制協助這些孩子這些家庭在目前沒辦法處理的時候能不能符合最佳利益 孩子最佳利益事實上是補貼交通費用讓他們離開這個環境嗎去其他學校就讀嗎\n還是事實上因為他根本事實上是沒有辦法搬離這個地方所以請教一部先做一些評估一樣的跟我們的環境部在三個月內給我一個報告最後當然就是期待我們建立學校周邊的污染工廠的距離還有依據不同工廠樣態進行\n我們的盤點整頓的一些規範然後第二個教育部應該針對空屋的風險高的學校裡面有具體的協助機制第三個三個月內將高中值以下納入到我們的室內空氣品質管理法的那個監測範圍第四針對兒少專屬\n空污的標準呢 三個月內召集專家學者召開專家學者會議謝謝 趙偉謝謝委員很好的建議 謝謝我們會納入參考 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.199 --> 00:28.889\n麻煩我們的部長還有我們的監測資訊師的師長還有教育部資訊及科技教育師的專門委員和我們的國民健康署科長監測師的師長還有教育科技還有國健謝謝\n\n00:40.371 --> 00:57.169\n部長早我覺得我肯定環境部在空房制上的努力可是在報告中部長你也提到當供給品質惡化時主管機關應該要採取更應變的房制跟\n\n00:57.662 --> 01:22.405\n健康防護措施來依據我們的氣象固定的污染源跟移動污染源等特性公告並執行防治措施那包括工廠汽車輛的排放跟營建工地的管理跟提醒敏感族群的防護那也強調要加強保護我們的敏感族群針對不同污染物\n\n01:22.950 --> 01:35.684\n能夠採取不同的應變措施像工廠的排放管控跟加油站我們的油氣的回收可是我也想問部長你所謂的敏感族群是不是\n\n01:36.266 --> 01:52.766\n有區分大人跟小孩所以我想針對這一點來跟部長做討論部長我一直都認為我覺得一個問題為什麼學校跟固定的產生空屋工廠的距離\n\n01:53.486 --> 02:15.307\n至今是沒有明確的規範那根據報導者調查全台有141所國小31所國中距離500公尺都有違規的工廠其中28間學校周遭甚至有2間以上的違規工廠那校園跟這樣子的污染源的距離規範我們看到的是什麼\n\n02:15.686 --> 02:41.636\n去年我針對學校周邊的潛在危險設施提出規範要求加油站設置距離應納入幼兒園保護範圍可是去年11月教育部回函支持表示會跟經濟部研議修正法規可是至今也是沒有下文那兒少全法第47條也規定只要有害兒童身心健康的營業場所都必須距離\n\n02:42.496 --> 02:58.352\n學校有200公尺以上那2024年呢環境部也預告修正我們的移動污染源違反空氣污染防治法裁罰準則的時候如果柴油車跟機車排放的污染物影響學校罰款加重1.5倍所以部長工廠\n\n03:02.964 --> 03:23.256\n排放的污染不會遇到學校就轉彎喔我們固定場所已經事實上都還要200公尺那可是他會他所以這樣污染源他會隨著空氣風向轉向學校我們對於交通跟營業場所都有一些距離的管制可是卻對這些污染的工廠沒有辦法管這樣對嗎\n\n03:25.611 --> 03:51.266\n這個是我們希望也可以改善的因為委員說的都是現在事實因為報導者這邊我有特別看他特別舉出了一些學校那當然啦有些的這個違規的工廠他是一直過去我們對這個認知沒有那麼的多那我們現在我會去面對這個問題那這個面對這個問題呢有幾種一個是如果新設的話一定要盡量有一些更好的一個規範那至於舊有既有的話我們就要加強監測\n\n03:52.227 --> 04:00.974\n所以想問部長現行的法規規範空氣污染防治法的管住就已經是不是有不足的地方你什麼時候要跟教育部討論\n\n04:03.064 --> 04:24.456\n這個委員我們會來處理來進行好不好因為我把所有的相關的法規找出來也就看起來我們的空屋治理的法規非常的多可是沒有人負責而且政策很零碎執行也很破碎所以兒童的健康事實上是被忽略的各部門各管各的那涉及到兒童\n\n04:25.436 --> 04:46.319\n跟空污的法規關係大概有12項其中前面環境部的前4項跟教育部的前3項總共7項事實上是有一些關聯性的可是環境部只針對我們的空氣品質惡化時規範學校應變措施簡單來講就是說發生事情的時候再來管理\n\n04:47.352 --> 05:02.825\n那教育部呢在選校的時候的確會考量空窩可是沒有明確的標準這真的讓我們覺得很可笑因為孩子健康就掌握在尤其事實上選校子之後呢工廠怎麼設好像都沒有特別去規範\n\n05:03.666 --> 05:22.354\n所以僅依環保署的法規去調整體育課就叫孩子你體育課不要出來就好了那衛福部的兒童機構的那個環境規劃更偏向於環境清潔跟事故預防未設標準所以我想問國監署你2023年我們的兒圈公約的15號意見書就已經出來了針對健康權\n\n05:28.237 --> 05:50.482\n到2023年2013年出來15號一間2023年到26號一間書在提到氣候權的時候都也提到了所謂這樣的空污對他的所以我不知道我們的國健署在主管健康你對衛福部在訂兒少權法甚至修正的時候都沒有提嗎好國健署委員我是不是請國健署來回答謝謝委員這部分我們後續可以再來做\n\n05:58.049 --> 06:23.639\n因為兒權公約我們從2014年國內法化之後都到現在為什麼國健署在監管我們兒童健康的反而事實上是沒有回應好國健署請回教育部要不要回應一下我還有教育部要回的所以以兒少權法為例我們的第七條就明確規定中央政府主管機關包括教育跟勞工跟經濟14個機關\n\n06:26.434 --> 06:35.325\n可是環境部沒有列入那這也代表環境部對兒童的權益事實上是被忽略的所以想問部長你認為在兒少權益環境部的責任是什麼\n\n06:39.291 --> 07:00.471\n我贊同委員這個對於一些例如敏感族群兒少的教育場所特別常出沒的那我們是現在有針對一些例如說幼教的場所有在進行但是委員你提到的這個的確是對可是我就覺得很納悶為什麼因為室內空氣品質管理法裡面它第六條有針對於各個\n\n07:02.045 --> 07:23.110\n場域裡邊要逐步的去公布說哪些場域要被歸管那環境部先後公告了前面11項應該講第二項到11項可獨獨第一項目前針對於我們的所謂教學場所竟然只公告了大學醫院政府辦公室大眾運輸跟娛樂場所\n\n07:25.211 --> 07:41.026\n那我們最重要最重要是越幼小的孩子更需要被保護反而事實上是獨立高級中等以下學校跟兒少教育跟活動場域這讓我覺得蠻特別2018年我們本黨的立委許智傑委員也有提\n\n07:41.807 --> 08:01.074\n出來跟教育部要求可是當時事實上到現在都還沒有去做這樣的一個考量可是老人的福祉機構都早一批被公佈了為什麼我們的兒少機構那我覺得我們的教育部跟環境部有互踢皮球嗎所以何時納管所以環境部跟教育部給我一個時間\n\n08:03.172 --> 08:12.475\n委員這個目前是幼兒園或托嬰中心是有啦委員說的高中跟國小這個我們會再來討論可不可以給個時間教育部要不要\n\n08:13.769 --> 08:40.379\n跟委員報告一下因為之前在幼教階段的部分因為幼教的場所因為蠻多大概六千多所學校那每一所學校他如果要符合那個環境部的那個空評的規標我講的是給我一個時間好不好我們盡快啦就是跟環境部來一起推動因為那部分的標準是真的還蠻嚴格的那需要需要一段的時間來推動\n\n08:42.031 --> 09:09.953\n好那環境部呢這個我們會來研議因為委員你說的就是說高中國中國小其實這個部分的確是缺的我們是針對幼兒園那些托嬰中心大學都管了可是反而事實上是高中以下的都沒在管可是世界衛生組織跟我們的聯合國兒童基金會都特別提醒說兒少是環境跟空氣污染影響最嚴重的族群\n\n09:11.636 --> 09:22.124\n目前很多時候工廠設在學校旁邊我們到底對學生的健康保護到底在哪裡尤其他也提出來說今天孩子因為呼吸\n\n09:23.317 --> 09:51.895\n速度比較快活動量高所以他的呼吸系統的發育還沒有成熟的時候他對於空氣汙染對他的影響比成人還更嚴重反而你去保護我們已經滿18歲以上18歲以下的完全不去做歸管所以我想問部長說現行的我們的檢測標準真的能夠保護健康嗎那我想也要問你們說那你們認定到底這樣的標準事實上應該要比大人更嚴格呢還是跟大人一樣\n\n09:53.257 --> 10:09.066\n從學理上應該是要更嚴格啦例如說大人的標準他小朋友應該更嚴格一點那他是更要被保護的族群你們至今第一個沒有沒有去歸管另外一個事實上是也沒有一些標準在那沒有標準的結果就是做什麼呢就是叫孩子呢\n\n10:09.451 --> 10:29.451\n反正你關窗嘛忍耐嘛戴口罩那難道就成為唯一的選擇嗎因為現在檢測方式根本沒有辦法去真實反映學校周遭的周邊的污染現況所以也試問現在站在場上的各位能接受每天上班的時候聞到濾青或工廠排放的廢氣的臭味嗎\n\n10:31.012 --> 10:55.710\n可是現在就是都是現實我們學童遇到的一些狀況很多學生呢學校的師生因為吸入異味出現我們的頭暈耳心甚至身體不適的狀況可是為什麼不知道你們檢測空氣品質卻顯示空氣品質正常這個有沒有檢舉的時間跟稽查的時間根本兜不上甚至有沒有人通風報信\n\n10:57.921 --> 11:24.205\n我們怎麼會是品質這樣如果孩子都已經聞到所以部長請說明一下目前學校周邊發生異味的時候聞到不舒服檢測卻又正常這種跟事實脫節的狀況原因你覺得是什麼第一個是檢測這樣不夠因為學校它其實都是屬於這種微氣候所造成的影響第一個是要可能要增加一些檢測的設備所以我們目前這個會加強那委員提到的\n\n11:25.146 --> 11:51.526\n針對這個弱勢的這個族群我們會第一個是到底弱勢的族群他的這個AQI的標準要設到多少這個我們現在會來研議做這個事情那委員關心的部分呢再容許再給我們一點時間我們跟教育部一起來討論對那就要問教育部你除了叫孩子忍耐關窗戴口罩那到底為什麼孩子要忍我們自己大人都聞不下去了那所以你有沒有其他的應對的方式\n\n11:52.802 --> 12:11.720\n跟委員報告一下就是我們剛委員有列出我們相關的一些針對空瓶的一些因應規範其實我們有針對弱勢族群就是呃呃而且比較身體比較脆弱敏感的族群有做一些相關的一些應變還有演練而這份我們也是我們我們尊重我們我們尊重西亞系的一個一個規範來做相關的一些關懷和呃緊急的應變處理好\n\n12:16.264 --> 12:44.501\n有請環境部在三個月內召開跨部會的會議針對學校跟兒童出沒的一個區域空屋標準應該召開專家學者會議而且要以孩子的標準不是用大人的標準能不能辦到好可以委員謝謝委員的建議再給我一點時間稍微我照樣站起來那最後我還是要問教育部因為空屋不是環境問題更是影響到學生受教權\n\n12:46.072 --> 13:06.830\n那平不平等的狀況那我的選區我應該講說我的認養區域是觀音區那他的樹林國小報道率僅剩下三成全校僅剩下112人其中三分之一是單親跟低收入戶的學生內這些弱勢家庭你覺得他遇到空污的時候他們有選擇權嗎教育部\n\n13:10.838 --> 13:34.514\n這個部分不理會來重申委員提的這幾個學校我們也會你剛才講敏感族群你要保護我覺得連弱勢為什麼因為當學校周遭長期受汙染家長呢當然不得不要讓孩子轉學或跨學區就讀那是有能力的有能力的家庭可是如果事實上是沒有能力的家庭因為他是弱勢那你對弱勢支持是什麼就是繼續讓他們在更遏制的環境當中\n\n13:37.591 --> 14:03.589\n那他的健康我常常說若是家庭經不起健康的問題他們沒有財力去處理他的健康所以教育部是不是能夠去檢討有什麼機制協助這些孩子這些家庭在目前沒辦法處理的時候能不能符合最佳利益孩子最佳利益事實上是補貼交通費用讓他們離開這個環境嗎去其他學校就讀嗎\n\n14:04.677 --> 14:25.024\n還是事實上因為他根本事實上是沒有辦法搬離這個地方所以請教一部先做一些評估一樣的跟我們的環境部在三個月內給我一個報告最後當然就是期待我們建立學校周邊的污染工廠的距離還有依據不同工廠樣態進行\n\n14:26.806 --> 14:43.923\n我們的盤點整頓的一些規範然後第二個教育部應該針對空屋的風險高的學校裡面有具體的協助機制第三個三個月內將高中值以下納入到我們的室內空氣品質管理法的那個監測範圍第四針對兒少專屬\n\n14:46.598 --> 14:50.280\n空污的標準呢三個月內召集專家學者召開專家學者會議謝謝趙偉謝謝委員很好的建議謝謝我們會納入參考謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.199,"end":28.889,"text":"麻煩我們的部長還有我們的監測資訊師的師長還有教育部資訊及科技教育師的專門委員和我們的國民健康署科長監測師的師長還有教育科技還有國健謝謝"},{"start":40.371,"end":57.169,"text":"部長早我覺得我肯定環境部在空房制上的努力可是在報告中部長你也提到當供給品質惡化時主管機關應該要採取更應變的房制跟"},{"start":57.662,"end":82.405,"text":"健康防護措施來依據我們的氣象固定的污染源跟移動污染源等特性公告並執行防治措施那包括工廠汽車輛的排放跟營建工地的管理跟提醒敏感族群的防護那也強調要加強保護我們的敏感族群針對不同污染物"},{"start":82.95,"end":95.684,"text":"能夠採取不同的應變措施 像工廠的排放管控跟加油站我們的油氣的回收可是我也想問部長你所謂的敏感族群是不是"},{"start":96.266,"end":112.766,"text":"有區分大人跟小孩所以我想針對這一點來跟部長做討論部長我一直都認為我覺得一個問題為什麼學校跟固定的產生空屋工廠的距離"},{"start":113.486,"end":135.307,"text":"至今是沒有明確的規範那根據報導者調查全台有141所國小31所國中距離500公尺都有違規的工廠其中28間學校周遭甚至有2間以上的違規工廠那校園跟這樣子的污染源的距離規範我們看到的是什麼"},{"start":135.686,"end":161.636,"text":"去年我針對學校周邊的潛在危險設施提出規範要求加油站設置距離應納入幼兒園保護範圍可是去年11月教育部回函支持表示會跟經濟部研議修正法規可是至今也是沒有下文那兒少全法第47條也規定只要有害兒童身心健康的營業場所都必須距離"},{"start":162.496,"end":178.352,"text":"學校有200公尺以上那2024年呢環境部也預告修正我們的移動污染源違反空氣污染防治法裁罰準則的時候如果柴油車跟機車排放的污染物影響學校罰款加重1.5倍所以部長工廠"},{"start":182.964,"end":203.256,"text":"排放的污染不會遇到學校就轉彎喔我們固定場所已經事實上都還要200公尺那可是他會他所以這樣污染源他會隨著空氣風向轉向學校我們對於交通跟營業場所都有一些距離的管制可是卻對這些污染的工廠沒有辦法管這樣對嗎"},{"start":205.611,"end":231.266,"text":"這個是我們希望也可以改善的因為委員說的都是現在事實因為報導者這邊我有特別看他特別舉出了一些學校那當然啦有些的這個違規的工廠他是一直過去我們對這個認知沒有那麼的多那我們現在我會去面對這個問題那這個面對這個問題呢有幾種一個是如果新設的話一定要盡量有一些更好的一個規範那至於舊有既有的話我們就要加強監測"},{"start":232.227,"end":240.974,"text":"所以想問部長 現行的法規規範 空氣污染防治法的管住就已經是不是有不足的地方 你什麼時候要跟教育部討論"},{"start":243.064,"end":264.456,"text":"這個委員我們會來處理來進行好不好因為我把所有的相關的法規找出來也就看起來我們的空屋治理的法規非常的多可是沒有人負責而且政策很零碎執行也很破碎所以兒童的健康事實上是被忽略的各部門各管各的那涉及到兒童"},{"start":265.436,"end":286.319,"text":"跟空污的法規關係大概有12項其中前面環境部的前4項跟教育部的前3項總共7項事實上是有一些關聯性的可是環境部只針對我們的空氣品質惡化時規範學校應變措施簡單來講就是說發生事情的時候再來管理"},{"start":287.352,"end":302.825,"text":"那教育部呢在選校的時候的確會考量空窩可是沒有明確的標準這真的讓我們覺得很可笑因為孩子健康就掌握在尤其事實上選校子之後呢工廠怎麼設好像都沒有特別去規範"},{"start":303.666,"end":322.354,"text":"所以僅依環保署的法規去調整體育課就叫孩子你體育課不要出來就好了那衛福部的兒童機構的那個環境規劃更偏向於環境清潔跟事故預防未設標準所以我想問國監署你2023年我們的兒圈公約的15號意見書就已經出來了針對健康權"},{"start":328.237,"end":350.482,"text":"到2023年2013年出來15號一間2023年到26號一間書在提到氣候權的時候都也提到了所謂這樣的空污對他的所以我不知道我們的國健署在主管健康你對衛福部在訂兒少權法甚至修正的時候都沒有提嗎好 國健署委員我是不是請國健署來回答謝謝委員這部分我們後續可以再來做"},{"start":358.049,"end":383.639,"text":"因為兒權公約我們從2014年國內法化之後都到現在為什麼國健署在監管我們兒童健康的反而事實上是沒有回應好 國健署請回教育部要不要回應一下我還有教育部要回的所以以兒少權法為例我們的第七條就明確規定中央政府主管機關包括教育跟勞工跟經濟14個機關"},{"start":386.434,"end":395.325,"text":"可是環境部沒有列入那這也代表環境部對兒童的權益事實上是被忽略的所以想問部長你認為在兒少權益環境部的責任是什麼"},{"start":399.291,"end":420.471,"text":"我贊同委員這個對於一些例如敏感族群兒少的教育場所特別常出沒的那我們是現在有針對一些例如說幼教的場所有在進行但是委員你提到的這個的確是對可是我就覺得很納悶為什麼因為室內空氣品質管理法裡面它第六條有針對於各個"},{"start":422.045,"end":443.11,"text":"場域裡邊要逐步的去公布說哪些場域要被歸管那環境部先後公告了前面11項應該講第二項到11項可獨獨第一項目前針對於我們的所謂教學場所竟然只公告了大學醫院政府辦公室大眾運輸跟娛樂場所"},{"start":445.211,"end":461.026,"text":"那我們最重要最重要是越幼小的孩子更需要被保護反而事實上是獨立高級中等以下學校跟兒少教育跟活動場域這讓我覺得蠻特別2018年我們本黨的立委許智傑委員也有提"},{"start":461.807,"end":481.074,"text":"出來跟教育部要求可是當時事實上到現在都還沒有去做這樣的一個考量可是老人的福祉機構都早一批被公佈了為什麼我們的兒少機構那我覺得我們的教育部跟環境部有互踢皮球嗎所以何時納管所以環境部跟教育部給我一個時間"},{"start":483.172,"end":492.475,"text":"委員這個目前是幼兒園或托嬰中心是有啦委員說的高中跟國小這個我們會再來討論可不可以給個時間教育部要不要"},{"start":493.769,"end":520.379,"text":"跟委員報告一下因為之前在幼教階段的部分因為幼教的場所因為蠻多大概六千多所學校那每一所學校他如果要符合那個環境部的那個空評的規標我講的是給我一個時間好不好我們盡快啦就是跟環境部來一起推動因為那部分的標準是真的還蠻嚴格的那需要需要一段的時間來推動"},{"start":522.031,"end":549.953,"text":"好那環境部呢這個我們會來研議因為委員你說的就是說高中國中國小其實這個部分的確是缺的我們是針對幼兒園那些托嬰中心大學都管了可是反而事實上是高中以下的都沒在管可是世界衛生組織跟我們的聯合國兒童基金會都特別提醒說兒少是環境跟空氣污染影響最嚴重的族群"},{"start":551.636,"end":562.124,"text":"目前很多時候工廠設在學校旁邊我們到底對學生的健康保護到底在哪裡尤其他也提出來說今天孩子因為呼吸"},{"start":563.317,"end":591.895,"text":"速度比較快 活動量高所以他的呼吸系統的發育還沒有成熟的時候他對於空氣汙染對他的影響比成人還更嚴重反而你去保護我們已經滿18歲以上18歲以下的完全不去做歸管所以我想問部長說現行的我們的檢測標準真的能夠保護健康嗎那我想也要問你們說那你們認定到底這樣的標準事實上應該要比大人更嚴格呢還是跟大人一樣"},{"start":593.257,"end":609.066,"text":"從學理上應該是要更嚴格啦例如說大人的標準他小朋友應該更嚴格一點那他是更要被保護的族群你們至今第一個沒有沒有去歸管另外一個事實上是也沒有一些標準在那沒有標準的結果就是做什麼呢就是叫孩子呢"},{"start":609.451,"end":629.451,"text":"反正你關窗嘛 忍耐嘛 戴口罩那難道就成為唯一的選擇嗎因為現在檢測方式根本沒有辦法去真實反映學校周遭的周邊的污染現況所以也試問現在站在場上的各位能接受每天上班的時候聞到濾青或工廠排放的廢氣的臭味嗎"},{"start":631.012,"end":655.71,"text":"可是現在就是都是現實我們學童遇到的一些狀況很多學生呢學校的師生因為吸入異味出現我們的頭暈耳心甚至身體不適的狀況可是為什麼不知道你們檢測空氣品質卻顯示空氣品質正常這個有沒有檢舉的時間跟稽查的時間根本兜不上甚至有沒有人通風報信"},{"start":657.921,"end":684.205,"text":"我們怎麼會是品質這樣 如果孩子都已經聞到所以部長請說明一下目前學校周邊發生異味的時候 聞到不舒服檢測卻又正常 這種跟事實脫節的狀況原因你覺得是什麼第一個是檢測這樣不夠 因為學校它其實都是屬於這種微氣候所造成的影響第一個是要可能要增加一些檢測的設備 所以我們目前這個會加強 那委員提到的"},{"start":685.146,"end":711.526,"text":"針對這個弱勢的這個族群我們會第一個是到底弱勢的族群他的這個AQI的標準要設到多少這個我們現在會來研議做這個事情那委員關心的部分呢再容許再給我們一點時間我們跟教育部一起來討論對那就要問教育部你除了叫孩子忍耐關窗戴口罩那到底為什麼孩子要忍我們自己大人都聞不下去了那所以你有沒有其他的應對的方式"},{"start":712.802,"end":731.72,"text":"跟委員報告一下就是我們剛委員有列出我們相關的一些針對空瓶的一些因應規範其實我們有針對弱勢族群就是呃呃而且比較身體比較脆弱敏感的族群有做一些相關的一些應變還有演練而這份我們也是我們我們尊重我們我們尊重西亞系的一個一個規範來做相關的一些關懷和呃緊急的應變處理好"},{"start":736.264,"end":764.501,"text":"有請環境部在三個月內召開跨部會的會議針對學校跟兒童出沒的一個區域空屋標準應該召開專家學者會議而且要以孩子的標準不是用大人的標準能不能辦到好可以委員謝謝委員的建議再給我一點時間稍微我照樣站起來那最後我還是要問教育部因為空屋不是環境問題更是影響到學生受教權"},{"start":766.072,"end":786.83,"text":"那平不平等的狀況那我的選區 我應該講說我的認養區域是觀音區那他的樹林國小報道率僅剩下三成全校僅剩下112人其中三分之一是單親跟低收入戶的學生內這些弱勢家庭 你覺得他遇到空污的時候他們有選擇權嗎教育部"},{"start":790.838,"end":814.514,"text":"這個部分不理會來重申委員提的這幾個學校我們也會你剛才講敏感族群你要保護我覺得連弱勢為什麼因為當學校周遭長期受汙染家長呢當然不得不要讓孩子轉學或跨學區就讀那是有能力的有能力的家庭可是如果事實上是沒有能力的家庭因為他是弱勢那你對弱勢支持是什麼就是繼續讓他們在更遏制的環境當中"},{"start":817.591,"end":843.589,"text":"那他的健康 我常常說若是家庭經不起健康的問題他們沒有財力去處理他的健康所以教育部是不是能夠去檢討有什麼機制協助這些孩子這些家庭在目前沒辦法處理的時候能不能符合最佳利益 孩子最佳利益事實上是補貼交通費用讓他們離開這個環境嗎去其他學校就讀嗎"},{"start":844.677,"end":865.024,"text":"還是事實上因為他根本事實上是沒有辦法搬離這個地方所以請教一部先做一些評估一樣的跟我們的環境部在三個月內給我一個報告最後當然就是期待我們建立學校周邊的污染工廠的距離還有依據不同工廠樣態進行"},{"start":866.806,"end":883.923,"text":"我們的盤點整頓的一些規範然後第二個教育部應該針對空屋的風險高的學校裡面有具體的協助機制第三個三個月內將高中值以下納入到我們的室內空氣品質管理法的那個監測範圍第四針對兒少專屬"},{"start":886.598,"end":890.28,"text":"空污的標準呢 三個月內召集專家學者召開專家學者會議謝謝 趙偉謝謝委員很好的建議 謝謝我們會納入參考 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":271,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時28分）麻煩請部長還有監測資訊司的司長。"],["主席：好，請彭部長還有……"],["林委員月琴：還有教育部資訊及科技教育司的專門委員和國民健康署科長。"],["主席：好，都有聽到喔，監測司的司長，還有教育以及國健，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長早。"],["彭部長啓明：早。"],["林委員月琴：我肯定環境部在空污防制上的努力，可是部長在報告當中也提到，當空氣品質惡化時，主管機關應該要採取更應變的防制措施跟健康防護，依據我們的氣象、固定的污染源跟移動污染源等特性公告並執行防制措施，包括工廠、車輛的排放跟營建工地的管理，以及提醒敏感族群的防護，也強調要加強保護我們的敏感族群，針對不同污染物能夠採取不同的應變措施，像是工廠的排放管控跟加油站的油氣回收。可是我想問部長，你所謂的敏感族群是不是有區分大人跟小孩？我想針對這一點來跟部長討論。","部長，我一直都認為，也覺得有一個問題，為什麼學校跟固定產生空污的工廠距離至今沒有明確的規範？根據「報導者」的調查，全臺有141所國小、31所國中距離500公尺都有違規的工廠，其中28間學校周遭甚至有兩間以上的違規工廠，校園跟污染源的距離規範，我們看到的是什麼？去年我針對學校周邊的潛在危險設施提出了規範，要求加油站設置距離應納入幼兒園保護範圍，可是去年11月教育部回函表示支持，會跟經濟部研議修正法規，可是至今也是沒有下文。兒少權法第四十七條也規定，只要有害兒童身心健康的營業場所都必須距離學校200公尺以上。2024年，環境部也預告修正移動污染源違反空氣污染防制法裁罰準則時，如果柴油車跟機車排放的污染物影響學校，罰鍰加重1.5倍。所以部長，工廠排放的污染不會遇到學校就轉彎，事實上固定場所都還要200公尺，這樣的污染源會隨著空氣、風向轉向學校，對於交通跟營業場所都有一些距離的管制，可是卻對這些污染的工廠沒有辦法管，這樣對嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：這也是我們希望可以改善的，委員說的都是現在的事實，我看「報導者」這邊有特別舉出了一些學校，當然有些違規工廠是一直……過去我們對這個的認知沒有那麼多，我們現在會去面對這個問題，面對這個問題的方式有幾種，第一個，如果是新設的話，一定要儘量有一些更好的規範，至於舊有、既有的就要加強監測，還有它的減量。"],["林委員月琴：所以想問部長，關於現行的法規規範，空氣污染防制法管制是不是已經有不足的地方，你什麼時候要跟教育部討論？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，我們會來進行處理，好不好？"],["林委員月琴：因為我把相關法規找出來後發現，有關空污治理的法規非常多，可是沒有人負責，而且政策很零碎，執行也很破碎，所以兒童的健康問題事實上是被忽略的，各部門各管各的。涉及到兒童跟空污有關的法規大概有十二項，其中環境部的前四項跟教育部的前三項總共七項有一些關聯性，可是環境部只在空氣品質惡化時規範學校的應變措施，簡單來講，就是發生事情時再來管理。至於教育部在選校時的確會考量空污，可是沒有明確標準，這真的讓我們覺得很可笑，畢竟孩子健康就掌握在此。事實上，校址選出之後，對於工廠怎麼設好像都沒有特別規範，學校僅能依環保署的法規調整體育課，叫孩子體育課不要出來就好了。衛福部對兒童機構的環境規劃，更偏向環境的清潔與事故預防，並未設置空污標準。我想請問國健署，2013年兒權公約針對健康權的十五號意見書就已經出來了，到2023年的二十六號意見書在提到氣候權時也提到空污對……國健署主管健康，但衛福部在訂兒少權法、甚至修正的時候都沒有提這些嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，我是不是請國健署來回答？"],["歐科長良榮：委員，這部分我們後續可以再來做討論……"],["林委員月琴：從2014年將兒權公約國內法化之後都到現在，為什麼國健署是監管兒童健康的，事實上反而沒有回應？好，國健署請回。"],["彭部長啓明：委員，要不要請教育部回應一下？"],["林委員月琴：等會我還有教育部要回的。以兒少權法為例，第七條明確規定中央政府主管機關，包括教育、勞工跟經濟等十四個機關在內，但環境部沒有列入，代表環境部對兒童權益的責任被忽略。所以我想請問部長，你認為環境部對兒少權益的責任是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：我贊同委員所提，對於一些敏感族群，特別是兒少常出沒的教育場所，我們現在有針對這些幼教場所在進行，委員你提到的的確滿值得我們考慮。"],["林委員月琴：對，我覺得很納悶，為什麼？室內空氣品質管理法第六條規定，環境部應逐步公布哪些場域要規管，所以環境部先後公告了第二項到第十一項的場域，唯獨第一項教學場所中，竟只公告大學、醫院、政府辦公室、大眾運輸跟娛樂場所，獨漏高級中等以下學校跟兒少教育及活動場域，其實幼小的孩子才更需要被保護，這是最重要、最重要的，讓我覺得滿特別的。2018年本黨許智傑委員也有提出來並向教育部要求，但到現在都沒有做這樣的考量。老人福利機構已經早一批公布，為什麼兒少機構還沒有？教育部跟環境部在踢皮球嗎？何時納管？請環境部跟教育部給我一個時間。"],["彭部長啓明：委員，目前幼兒園或托嬰中心有，至於委員說的高中跟國小這部分，我們會再討論。"],["林委員月琴：可不可以給個時間？"],["彭部長啓明：教育部要不要跟委員報告一下？"],["廖專門委員雙慶：跟委員報告一下，在幼教階段部分，因為幼教場所滿多的，大概有六千多所學校，若每一所學校都要符合環境部空品標章……"],["林委員月琴：我講的是給我一個時間，好不好？"],["廖專門委員雙慶：我們儘快啦……"],["林委員月琴：儘快大概是什麼時候？"],["廖專門委員雙慶：要跟環境部一起推動，因為那部分的標準真的還滿嚴格的，所以需要一段時間來推動。"],["林委員月琴：環境部呢？"],["彭部長啓明：我們會來研議，如委員所提，高中、國中和國小的部分的確是缺的，至於幼兒園、托嬰中心都有。"],["林委員月琴：大學都管了，反而高中職以下的都沒管。世界衛生組織與聯合國兒童基金會都特別提醒，兒少是受環境跟空氣污染影響最嚴重的族群。很多時候工廠就設在學校旁邊，所以我們對學生的健康保護到底在哪裡？尤其孩子的呼吸速度比較快，活動量高，但孩子的呼吸系統發育還沒有成熟，因此空氣污染對他的影響比成人更嚴重！結果你反而去保護已經滿18歲以上的，18歲以下的完全不做規管？所以我想請問部長，現行我們的檢測標準真的能夠保護健康嗎？我同時也想請問你們，你們認定的標準是不是應該比大人更嚴格，還是跟大人一樣？"],["彭部長啓明：從學理上來講應該是要更嚴格，例如小朋友的標準應該比大人的標準更嚴格一點。"],["林委員月琴：是，所以他是更要被保護的族群，但你們至今除了沒有規管以外，事實上也沒有標準存在！沒有標準的結果就是叫孩子關窗、忍耐、戴口罩，這難道就成為唯一的選擇嗎？畢竟現在的檢測方式，根本沒有辦法真實反映學校周遭的污染現況！所以我要試問站在場上的各位，能接受每天上班的時候聞到瀝青或工廠排放的廢氣臭味嗎？這就是我們學童每天遇到的狀況與現實，很多學校的師生因為吸入異味而出現頭暈、噁心，甚至身體不適的狀況，但你們所檢測的空氣品質卻顯示空氣品質正常？到底為什麼？不知道！而且檢舉的時間跟稽查的時間根本兜不上，是不是有人通風報信？品質怎麼會是這樣？如果孩子都已經聞到的話！所以請部長說明一下目前學校周邊發生異味，聞到不舒服，卻又檢測正常，這種跟事實脫節的狀況，你覺得原因是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：第一個是檢測站不夠，因為學校其實是屬於微氣候所造成的影響……"],["林委員月琴：部長，你們要怎麼解決？"],["彭部長啓明：首先要增加一些檢測設備，所以這個會加強。至於委員提到針對弱勢族群部分，到底弱勢族群的AQI標準要設到多少？這點我們會來研議。其次，對委員所關心的部分，請容許再給我們一點時間，我們會跟教育部一起來討論。"],["林委員月琴：所以就要問教育部，要孩子忍耐、關窗、戴口罩，到底為什麼孩子要忍？連我們大人都聞不下去了！因此，你們有沒有其他的應對方式？"],["廖專門委員雙慶：跟委員報告，剛剛委員有列出我們針對空品的因應規範，其實我們有針對弱勢族群，即身體比較脆弱、敏感族群做相關的應變及演練，這部分我們遵從CRC的規範來做相關的關懷與緊急的應變處理。"],["林委員月琴：我請環境部在三個月內召開跨部會會議，針對學校跟兒少出沒區域之空污標準來召開專家學者會議，且要以孩子的標準為主，而不是用大人的標準，這點能不能辦到？"],["彭部長啓明：好，可以。謝謝委員的建議。"],["林委員月琴：請召委再給我一點時間，我知道你要站起來了。","最後，我還是要問教育部，空污不僅是環境問題，更會影響學生的受教權是否平等。我的選區或者說我認養區域觀音區的樹林國小報到率僅剩下三成，全校僅剩下112人，其中三分之一是單親跟低收入戶學生。這些弱勢家庭遇到空污，你覺得他們有選擇權嗎？教育部？"],["廖專門委員雙慶：這部分部裡會來重視，而委員提的這幾所學校，我們也會……"],["林委員月琴：你剛才講到要保護敏感族群，其實連弱勢……為什麼？當學校週遭長期受污染，家長就不得不讓孩子轉學或跨學區就讀。但那是有能力的家庭，如果是沒有能力的家庭呢？因為他是弱勢！請問你對弱勢的支持是什麼？就是讓他們繼續待在更惡質的環境當中？他的健康呢？我常常說，弱勢家庭禁不起健康風險，畢竟他們沒有財力去處理健康問題！所以教育部是不是能夠去檢討，看有什麼機制可以協助這些孩子與這些家庭？至少在目前沒辦法處理的情況下，能不能符合孩子的最佳利益？或補貼交通費用讓他們離開這個環境去其他學校就讀？事實上他們根本沒有辦法搬離這個地方，所以請教育部先做一些評估，一樣地跟環境部在三個月內給我一個報告。"],["廖專門委員雙慶：好。"],["林委員月琴：最後當然就是期待我們建立學校周邊的污染工廠的距離，還有依據不同工廠樣態進行盤點、整頓一些規範。第二個，教育部應該針對空污風險高的學校有具體協助機制。第三個，三個月內將高中職以下納入「室內空氣品質管理法」監測範圍。第四，針對兒少專屬空污監測標準，三個月內邀集專家學者召開專家學者會議。謝謝召委。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員很好的建議，我們會納入參考。"],["主席：謝謝林委員，謝謝部長還有各單位，就照委員的建議做這樣的後續處理。","接下來請陳菁徽進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-3","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","王育敏","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","麥玉珍","賴士葆","張啓楷","張智倫","楊曜","翁曉玲","劉建國","陳瑩","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","黃秀芳","蘇清泉"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、教育部、經濟部、台灣電力公司、台灣中油公司就「氣象變異致\n國內空品惡化，精進預報與跨部會應變作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142901_00004"}}}