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188.648, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 188.648, \"end\": 188.989, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 188.989, \"end\": 189.329, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"亞\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 189.329, \"end\": 189.469, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 189.469, \"end\": 189.77, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"孩\", \"start\": 189.77, \"end\": 190.01, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 190.01, \"end\": 190.55, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 190.55, \"end\": 190.711, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 190.711, \"end\": 190.871, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 190.871, \"end\": 191.171, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 191.171, \"end\": 191.271, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 191.271, \"end\": 191.512, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"孩\", \"start\": 191.512, \"end\": 191.692, 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{\"start\": 195.877, \"end\": 212.298, \"text\": \"我的了解是這一塊可能還是要看教育部自己的執行預算但是我們有跟他們表達過可能要強烈表達啦那這就是所謂的跨部會的情形那我也會尋管到看透過鄭麗君副院長或相關情形我就真的要解決\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 195.877, \"end\": 196.097, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 196.097, \"end\": 196.258, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 196.258, \"end\": 196.538, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 196.538, \"end\": 196.818, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 196.818, \"end\": 197.319, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 197.319, \"end\": 197.74, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"塊\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 197.74, \"end\": 197.86, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 197.86, \"end\": 198.24, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 198.24, \"end\": 198.42, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 198.42, \"end\": 198.601, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 198.601, \"end\": 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00:00:29,027\n好謝謝主席麻煩委員長何秀文委員長謝謝王委員長安委員長我在開始詢答之前我追蹤一下一個事情的進度是我跟沈伯陽委員我們曾經去馬來西亞的台灣學校回來之後我在這邊也質詢過我們同樣在海外我們台灣人的子弟在那邊讀台灣學校用台灣的課綱用台灣的教材\n\n2\n00:00:29,987 --> 00:00:58,004\n結果到中國的學校他們每個學期好像補助到三萬多每學年補助三萬多塊的樣子結果我們在東南亞其他的地方的類似這樣的台灣學校每個學年才一萬塊錢這個其實是非常不公平我們要強調這些是我們在海外的台灣子弟他們讀完中學之後會回台灣讀大學像馬來西亞的台灣學校辦得不錯甚至於讓馬來西亞國同意有八個國家的橋外生\n\n3\n00:00:59,305 --> 00:01:25,877\n馬來西亞的僑外生可以去讀我們在馬來西亞的台灣學校有點像在台灣的美國學校他們已經變國際學校的規模就很多人想要去讀那一間可是我們的台灣也許是台商的子女或者是我們當地台僑的子弟那他的學費補助是一萬塊目前好像是一學年五千是教育部補助的對教育部補助那我上次質詢說我說這個不對何況在東南亞好像有七家台灣學校\n\n4\n00:01:26,557 --> 00:01:41,142\n目前四家台灣學校他們用的是完全我們台灣的課堂完全用台灣的進度他的課本也不會被審查在中華人民共和國的台灣學校課本會用那個黑筆把中華民國塗掉把東西塗掉總統塗掉把一些有關國家代表性的東西都塗掉\n\n5\n00:01:45,083 --> 00:02:13,138\n他還會審查你的課本課綱也沒有完全的執行這兩個差異就那一邊一學年三萬多塊錢的補助這邊一學年一萬塊錢的補助這個不僅是不公平而且有點像在懲罰照規矩來的而且這些人回到台灣讀書他們的相關的人會來這邊消費等等所以這個事情我從上次去馬來西亞看了我們的喬教中心我們的台灣學校回來質詢之後有沒有新的進度\n\n6\n00:02:14,105 --> 00:02:30,969\n跟委員報告我們當然有把這個事情跟教育部說明那因為預算的這個編列上是在教育部的這個全署範圍內那事實上我們持續的對包括越南胡志明市那個對泰國的泰國沒有馬來西亞的吉隆坡\n\n7\n00:02:36,210 --> 00:02:56,113\n還有在雅加達印尼雅加達跟釋水總共這四個這個台灣學校呢確實是當時設立的時候是一半教育部一半僑委會來出資協助他們設立那我們也提供各種的目前教育部的態度是怎麼樣我沒有要求把中國那塊降下來嘛\n\n8\n00:02:57,094 --> 00:03:13,875\n我們也無法要求中國的不是那一塊是我們補助的喔是我們補助我們的台籍學生的學雜費補助嘛我現在只是說我們應該是一視同仁在東南亞的台灣孩子跟在中國的台灣孩子我們應該要公平嘛現在差了三倍啊\n\n9\n00:03:15,877 --> 00:03:32,298\n我的了解是這一塊可能還是要看教育部自己的執行預算但是我們有跟他們表達過可能要強烈表達啦那這就是所謂的跨部會的情形那我也會尋管到看透過鄭麗君副院長或相關情形我就真的要解決\n\n10\n00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:50,269\n這不解決我認為對在海外努力幫台灣辦學的人我覺得不公允好第二個我要請教最近有個題目說台灣會變學工之島這個題目很嚇人因為學工之島其實我們就違反聯合國很多東西那我們這邊也關注過\n\n11\n00:03:51,550 --> 00:04:09,118\n我們鼓勵外國的人來台灣讀書僑生來台灣讀書當然不能變成打黑工甚至於更慘變奴工護照被扣著之前發生過嘛那樣的奴工化其實是違反國際的所有的普世法則聯合國的公約所以\n\n12\n00:04:09,838 --> 00:04:37,274\n我們看我們現在3加4的方案3年就高中嘛4年就大學嘛我們對於就讀高中這個3有沒有年齡的限制還是說他只有國中學歷他就讀3還是說我要限18歲以下委員我們現在是這樣子我們3加4主要的生源國來自於東協國家主要7個那這7個國家呢各自的法規有些不一樣像越南\n\n13\n00:04:38,715 --> 00:04:57,228\n泰國馬來西亞柬埔寨他們就沒有規範到那麼嚴格說未成年者不得出國可是在菲律賓跟印尼他們對於未成年者要出國就設定不是說不能出國就設定比較嚴的門檻你很誤會我的意思我們這一塊我知道他在讀我們的高中\n\n14\n00:05:00,951 --> 00:05:15,956\n會不會有成年人基本上我們現在是這樣子年齡就是三加四的部分是從16歲到22歲都可以都可以所以他可以讀高中也可以讀大學對所以我們可能會發現一個21歲的在台灣讀高中\n\n15\n00:05:17,537 --> 00:05:37,465\n是的沒有錯沒有錯確實你不覺得這怪怪的嗎我們有算過這個lifestyle就是說因為他們的這個學制跟他們學習的內容可能跟我們台灣相對有一些落後的部分我們這個預算是花我們國家的是所以你要站在說我們鼓勵海外的這些僑生來台灣讀書我當然樂見而且有補助\n\n16\n00:05:40,526 --> 00:05:47,088\n委員我們其實已經限縮了之前的門檻更寬所以我們現在把它縮到說16歲到22歲縮小就代表問題不用檢討所以我剛才講的像你們提供的資料3加4畢業率不到4成\n\n17\n00:05:57,012 --> 00:06:01,576\n跟委員報告那時候前幾年我們確實在103年、104年、105年那幾年當中開始試辦這個計畫的時候沒有任何配套措施然後當時是試辦計畫所以人數也很少那所以流失率也就很高那那一段時間從他們不讀了就回他們母國對沒錯他只要一不讀書\n\n18\n00:06:20,754 --> 00:06:48,453\n他馬上就會取消他的簽證他就馬上離開畢業率不到四成畢業率不到四成不是馬上聯想到他就不讀了有可能我高中三年當作六年來讀啊不可能不可能原幣不行嗎不行不行在我們的計畫不行不行不行在我們的計畫裡面在我們這個三加四不行我們這個跟我們這個跟一般的這個一般生的狀況是不一樣所以他必須按照這個進度來他是學衛生嗎\n\n19\n00:06:48,933 --> 00:07:04,259\n他是他有學位但是他必須按照我們三加四的時間他甚至連休學都不可以喔他一休學就馬上休學就回國了請假也不行我說三年制他必須三年念完他必須三年不能延避一年不可以\n\n20\n00:07:04,759 --> 00:07:09,944\n大學的時候可以,但是他延畢的時候他不能實習了延畢的話你們補助也沒有了嗎?沒有了,而且跟委員報告,其實我們3加4的補助只有補助在前三年後面都沒有補助了,所以大學端的部分,那個是他自己自付學費的所以他如果要拖得久一點,我也沒意見那現在畢業率不到四成其實很低\n\n21\n00:07:28,763 --> 00:07:35,937\n然後我就是跟委員講其實雖然那時候不到四成可是真的有讀完七年的人他留台率很高\n\n22\n00:07:36,883 --> 00:07:59,681\n四成就是這有十個來畢業的有三個三個但是這三個都留下來了兩個半或三個會留下來對都留下來了在研究這塊在研究那六個嘛是是對不對那六個就是你不講三個通通留那是另外一件事有人就是因為我研究了前面為什麼他要留師所以我盡量去改善畢業率不到四成這個很低很低確實很低是我們台灣在我們的教育裡面不是這樣的數據嗯\n\n23\n00:08:01,479 --> 00:08:20,678\n你們找到原因了沒有然後你們期待今年明年的畢業率到多少有早期就是因為整個配套措施都沒有也沒有在考察這個學生的學習力實習的狀況那語言的狀況也都沒有跟進所以我們這三年來就開始持續的強化包括學校的住宿\n\n24\n00:08:21,278 --> 00:08:44,302\n教學語言實習的狀況我們都一項一項開始把它鎖緊那希望說他們可以一年級讀到三年級所以未來的畢業率會是我們審核學校他能不能繼續增加學生人數的一個評鑑今年的畢業季五月嘛對我們的畢業率會拉起來嗎我相信會會到多少你們的目標值是多少\n\n25\n00:08:45,262 --> 00:09:13,280\n過去因為只有三到四成因為以前很低啊基期很低基期很低基期很低你很容易進步啦所以再說以往畢業率不到四成你們估計今年的畢業率會多少今年要畢業的學生也只有幾百個而已大概是六七百個因為算比例所以應該入學如果七百個畢業六百多個那很高現在應該會有五成左右你認為會到五成嗎是其實還是偏低這還是要精進對但是我相信未來三年以後都會往上繼續走我最後提醒這個事情就是說\n\n26\n00:09:13,980 --> 00:09:31,473\n如果從東南亞來的所謂的僑生來我們這邊讀三加四畢業率不到四成第一個會形成我們的投資浪費我每花十塊錢有六塊呢根本就沒有了每花十塊錢人民的納稅人的錢有六塊就浪費了這個我們不容許\n\n27\n00:09:33,213 --> 00:09:54,701\n這個投報率太低第二個會有變相移工的風險你們管理上會形成大困難當然我們一直在要說委員當時大概不太會有是因為當時的規模很小都是數百人而已都還不到上千數字的敏感性高一個他占比較高嘛你現在量大了嘛花了40來億嘛我們還是要monitor我們還是要監控這個數據現在我們就很重視這個就是說\n\n28\n00:09:56,361 --> 00:10:21,920\n有移工的風險有投資的浪費我們就不能長期容忍我們的公共投資我們當然鼓勵台灣是一個開放國家海外僑生來台灣讀書百分之一百歡迎但歷業率在四成以下五成左右那這樣子形成我們投資的浪費可能在做法上要更嚴謹去思考那這個數據我會持續觀察好謝謝委員我們一定會讓稅金做最好的運用謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n799\t29027\t好 謝謝主席 麻煩委員長何秀文委員長 謝謝王委員長安委員長 我在開始詢答之前我追蹤一下一個事情的進度是我跟沈伯陽委員我們曾經去馬來西亞的台灣學校回來之後我在這邊也質詢過我們同樣在海外我們台灣人的子弟在那邊讀台灣學校用台灣的課綱 用台灣的教材\n29987\t58004\t結果到中國的學校他們每個學期好像補助到三萬多每學年補助三萬多塊的樣子結果我們在東南亞其他的地方的類似這樣的台灣學校每個學年才一萬塊錢這個其實是非常不公平我們要強調這些是我們在海外的台灣子弟他們讀完中學之後會回台灣讀大學像馬來西亞的台灣學校辦得不錯甚至於讓馬來西亞國同意有八個國家的橋外生\n59305\t85877\t馬來西亞的僑外生可以去讀我們在馬來西亞的台灣學校有點像在台灣的美國學校他們已經變國際學校的規模就很多人想要去讀那一間可是我們的台灣也許是台商的子女或者是我們當地台僑的子弟那他的學費補助是一萬塊目前好像是一學年五千是教育部補助的對教育部補助那我上次質詢說我說這個不對何況在東南亞好像有七家台灣學校\n86557\t101142\t目前四家台灣學校他們用的是完全我們台灣的課堂完全用台灣的進度他的課本也不會被審查在中華人民共和國的台灣學校課本會用那個黑筆把中華民國塗掉把東西塗掉總統塗掉把一些有關國家代表性的東西都塗掉\n105083\t133138\t他還會審查你的課本課綱也沒有完全的執行這兩個差異就那一邊一學年三萬多塊錢的補助這邊一學年一萬塊錢的補助這個不僅是不公平而且有點像在懲罰照規矩來的而且這些人回到台灣讀書他們的相關的人會來這邊消費等等所以這個事情我從上次去馬來西亞看了我們的喬教中心我們的台灣學校回來質詢之後有沒有新的進度\n134105\t150969\t跟委員報告我們當然有把這個事情跟教育部說明那因為預算的這個編列上是在教育部的這個全署範圍內那事實上我們持續的對包括越南胡志明市那個對泰國的泰國沒有馬來西亞的吉隆坡\n156210\t176113\t還有在雅加達 印尼雅加達跟釋水總共這四個這個台灣學校呢確實是當時設立的時候是一半教育部一半僑委會來出資協助他們設立那我們也提供各種的目前教育部的態度是怎麼樣我沒有要求把中國那塊降下來嘛\n177094\t193875\t我們也無法要求中國的不是 那一塊是我們補助的喔是我們補助我們的台籍學生的學雜費補助嘛我現在只是說我們應該是一視同仁在東南亞的台灣孩子跟在中國的台灣孩子我們應該要公平嘛現在差了三倍啊\n195877\t212298\t我的了解是這一塊可能還是要看教育部自己的執行預算但是我們有跟他們表達過可能要強烈表達啦那這就是所謂的跨部會的情形那我也會尋管到看透過鄭麗君副院長或相關情形我就真的要解決\n212919\t230269\t這不解決我認為對在海外努力幫台灣辦學的人我覺得不公允好第二個我要請教最近有個題目說台灣會變學工之島這個題目很嚇人因為學工之島其實我們就違反聯合國很多東西那我們這邊也關注過\n231550\t249118\t我們鼓勵外國的人來台灣讀書僑生來台灣讀書當然不能變成打黑工甚至於更慘變奴工護照被扣著之前發生過嘛那樣的奴工化其實是違反國際的所有的普世法則聯合國的公約所以\n249838\t277274\t我們看我們現在3加4的方案3年就高中嘛4年就大學嘛我們對於就讀高中這個3有沒有年齡的限制還是說他只有國中學歷他就讀3還是說我要限18歲以下委員我們現在是這樣子我們3加4主要的生源國來自於東協國家主要7個那這7個國家呢各自的法規有些不一樣像越南\n278715\t297228\t泰國馬來西亞柬埔寨他們就沒有規範到那麼嚴格說未成年者不得出國可是在菲律賓跟印尼他們對於未成年者要出國就設定不是說不能出國就設定比較嚴的門檻你很誤會我的意思我們這一塊我知道他在讀我們的高中\n300951\t315956\t會不會有成年人基本上我們現在是這樣子年齡就是三加四的部分是從16歲到22歲都可以都可以所以他可以讀高中也可以讀大學對所以我們可能會發現一個21歲的在台灣讀高中\n317537\t337465\t是的沒有錯沒有錯確實你不覺得這怪怪的嗎我們有算過這個lifestyle就是說因為他們的這個學制跟他們學習的內容可能跟我們台灣相對有一些落後的部分我們這個預算是花我們國家的是所以你要站在說我們鼓勵海外的這些僑生來台灣讀書我當然樂見而且有補助\n340526\t347088\t委員我們其實已經限縮了之前的門檻更寬所以我們現在把它縮到說16歲到22歲縮小就代表問題不用檢討所以我剛才講的像你們提供的資料3加4畢業率不到4成\n357012\t361576\t跟委員報告那時候前幾年我們確實在103年、104年、105年那幾年當中開始試辦這個計畫的時候沒有任何配套措施然後當時是試辦計畫所以人數也很少那所以流失率也就很高那那一段時間從他們不讀了就回他們母國對沒錯他只要一不讀書\n380754\t408453\t他馬上就會取消他的簽證他就馬上離開畢業率不到四成畢業率不到四成不是馬上聯想到他就不讀了有可能我高中三年當作六年來讀啊不可能不可能原幣不行嗎不行不行在我們的計畫不行不行不行在我們的計畫裡面在我們這個三加四不行我們這個跟我們這個跟一般的這個一般生的狀況是不一樣所以他必須按照這個進度來他是學衛生嗎\n408933\t424259\t他是他有學位但是他必須按照我們三加四的時間他甚至連休學都不可以喔他一休學就馬上休學就回國了請假也不行我說三年制他必須三年念完他必須三年不能延避一年不可以\n424759\t429944\t大學的時候可以,但是他延畢的時候他不能實習了延畢的話你們補助也沒有了嗎?沒有了,而且跟委員報告,其實我們3加4的補助只有補助在前三年後面都沒有補助了,所以大學端的部分,那個是他自己自付學費的所以他如果要拖得久一點,我也沒意見那現在畢業率不到四成其實很低\n448763\t455937\t然後我就是跟委員講其實雖然那時候不到四成可是真的有讀完七年的人他留台率很高\n456883\t479681\t四成就是這有十個來畢業的有三個三個但是這三個都留下來了兩個半或三個會留下來對都留下來了在研究這塊在研究那六個嘛是是對不對那六個就是你不講三個通通留那是另外一件事有人就是因為我研究了前面為什麼他要留師所以我盡量去改善畢業率不到四成這個很低很低確實很低是我們台灣在我們的教育裡面不是這樣的數據嗯\n481479\t500678\t你們找到原因了沒有然後你們期待今年明年的畢業率到多少有早期就是因為整個配套措施都沒有也沒有在考察這個學生的學習力實習的狀況那語言的狀況也都沒有跟進所以我們這三年來就開始持續的強化包括學校的住宿\n501278\t524302\t教學 語言 實習的狀況我們都一項一項開始把它鎖緊那希望說他們可以一年級讀到三年級所以未來的畢業率會是我們審核學校他能不能繼續增加學生人數的一個評鑑今年的畢業季五月嘛對我們的畢業率會拉起來嗎我相信會會到多少 你們的目標值是多少\n525262\t553280\t過去因為只有三到四成因為以前很低啊 基期很低基期很低 基期很低你很容易進步啦所以再說 以往畢業率不到四成你們估計今年的畢業率會多少今年要畢業的學生也只有幾百個而已大概是六七百個因為算比例所以應該入學如果七百個 畢業六百多個 那很高現在應該會有五成左右你認為會到五成嗎 是其實還是偏低 這還是要精進對 但是我相信未來三年以後都會往上繼續走我最後提醒這個事情就是說\n553980\t571473\t如果從東南亞來的所謂的僑生來我們這邊讀三加四畢業率不到四成第一個會形成我們的投資浪費我每花十塊錢有六塊呢根本就沒有了每花十塊錢人民的納稅人的錢有六塊就浪費了這個我們不容許\n573213\t594701\t這個投報率太低第二個會有變相移工的風險你們管理上會形成大困難當然我們一直在要說委員當時大概不太會有是因為當時的規模很小都是數百人而已都還不到上千數字的敏感性高一個他占比較高嘛你現在量大了嘛花了40來億嘛我們還是要monitor我們還是要監控這個數據現在我們就很重視這個就是說\n596361\t621920\t有移工的風險 有投資的浪費我們就不能長期容忍我們的公共投資我們當然鼓勵 台灣是一個開放國家海外僑生來台灣讀書 百分之一百歡迎但歷業率在四成以下 五成左右那這樣子形成我們投資的浪費可能在做法上要更嚴謹去思考那這個數據我會持續觀察好 謝謝委員我們一定會讓稅金做最好的運用 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩委員長何秀文委員長 謝謝王委員長安委員長 我在開始詢答之前我追蹤一下一個事情的進度是我跟沈伯陽委員我們曾經去馬來西亞的台灣學校回來之後我在這邊也質詢過我們同樣在海外我們台灣人的子弟在那邊讀台灣學校用台灣的課綱 用台灣的教材\n結果到中國的學校他們每個學期好像補助到三萬多每學年補助三萬多塊的樣子結果我們在東南亞其他的地方的類似這樣的台灣學校每個學年才一萬塊錢這個其實是非常不公平我們要強調這些是我們在海外的台灣子弟他們讀完中學之後會回台灣讀大學像馬來西亞的台灣學校辦得不錯甚至於讓馬來西亞國同意有八個國家的橋外生\n馬來西亞的僑外生可以去讀我們在馬來西亞的台灣學校有點像在台灣的美國學校他們已經變國際學校的規模就很多人想要去讀那一間可是我們的台灣也許是台商的子女或者是我們當地台僑的子弟那他的學費補助是一萬塊目前好像是一學年五千是教育部補助的對教育部補助那我上次質詢說我說這個不對何況在東南亞好像有七家台灣學校\n目前四家台灣學校他們用的是完全我們台灣的課堂完全用台灣的進度他的課本也不會被審查在中華人民共和國的台灣學校課本會用那個黑筆把中華民國塗掉把東西塗掉總統塗掉把一些有關國家代表性的東西都塗掉\n他還會審查你的課本課綱也沒有完全的執行這兩個差異就那一邊一學年三萬多塊錢的補助這邊一學年一萬塊錢的補助這個不僅是不公平而且有點像在懲罰照規矩來的而且這些人回到台灣讀書他們的相關的人會來這邊消費等等所以這個事情我從上次去馬來西亞看了我們的喬教中心我們的台灣學校回來質詢之後有沒有新的進度\n跟委員報告我們當然有把這個事情跟教育部說明那因為預算的這個編列上是在教育部的這個全署範圍內那事實上我們持續的對包括越南胡志明市那個對泰國的泰國沒有馬來西亞的吉隆坡\n還有在雅加達 印尼雅加達跟釋水總共這四個這個台灣學校呢確實是當時設立的時候是一半教育部一半僑委會來出資協助他們設立那我們也提供各種的目前教育部的態度是怎麼樣我沒有要求把中國那塊降下來嘛\n我們也無法要求中國的不是 那一塊是我們補助的喔是我們補助我們的台籍學生的學雜費補助嘛我現在只是說我們應該是一視同仁在東南亞的台灣孩子跟在中國的台灣孩子我們應該要公平嘛現在差了三倍啊\n我的了解是這一塊可能還是要看教育部自己的執行預算但是我們有跟他們表達過可能要強烈表達啦那這就是所謂的跨部會的情形那我也會尋管到看透過鄭麗君副院長或相關情形我就真的要解決\n這不解決我認為對在海外努力幫台灣辦學的人我覺得不公允好第二個我要請教最近有個題目說台灣會變學工之島這個題目很嚇人因為學工之島其實我們就違反聯合國很多東西那我們這邊也關注過\n我們鼓勵外國的人來台灣讀書僑生來台灣讀書當然不能變成打黑工甚至於更慘變奴工護照被扣著之前發生過嘛那樣的奴工化其實是違反國際的所有的普世法則聯合國的公約所以\n我們看我們現在3加4的方案3年就高中嘛4年就大學嘛我們對於就讀高中這個3有沒有年齡的限制還是說他只有國中學歷他就讀3還是說我要限18歲以下委員我們現在是這樣子我們3加4主要的生源國來自於東協國家主要7個那這7個國家呢各自的法規有些不一樣像越南\n泰國馬來西亞柬埔寨他們就沒有規範到那麼嚴格說未成年者不得出國可是在菲律賓跟印尼他們對於未成年者要出國就設定不是說不能出國就設定比較嚴的門檻你很誤會我的意思我們這一塊我知道他在讀我們的高中\n會不會有成年人基本上我們現在是這樣子年齡就是三加四的部分是從16歲到22歲都可以都可以所以他可以讀高中也可以讀大學對所以我們可能會發現一個21歲的在台灣讀高中\n是的沒有錯沒有錯確實你不覺得這怪怪的嗎我們有算過這個lifestyle就是說因為他們的這個學制跟他們學習的內容可能跟我們台灣相對有一些落後的部分我們這個預算是花我們國家的是所以你要站在說我們鼓勵海外的這些僑生來台灣讀書我當然樂見而且有補助\n委員我們其實已經限縮了之前的門檻更寬所以我們現在把它縮到說16歲到22歲縮小就代表問題不用檢討所以我剛才講的像你們提供的資料3加4畢業率不到4成\n跟委員報告那時候前幾年我們確實在103年、104年、105年那幾年當中開始試辦這個計畫的時候沒有任何配套措施然後當時是試辦計畫所以人數也很少那所以流失率也就很高那那一段時間從他們不讀了就回他們母國對沒錯他只要一不讀書\n他馬上就會取消他的簽證他就馬上離開畢業率不到四成畢業率不到四成不是馬上聯想到他就不讀了有可能我高中三年當作六年來讀啊不可能不可能原幣不行嗎不行不行在我們的計畫不行不行不行在我們的計畫裡面在我們這個三加四不行我們這個跟我們這個跟一般的這個一般生的狀況是不一樣所以他必須按照這個進度來他是學衛生嗎\n他是他有學位但是他必須按照我們三加四的時間他甚至連休學都不可以喔他一休學就馬上休學就回國了請假也不行我說三年制他必須三年念完他必須三年不能延避一年不可以\n大學的時候可以,但是他延畢的時候他不能實習了延畢的話你們補助也沒有了嗎?沒有了,而且跟委員報告,其實我們3加4的補助只有補助在前三年後面都沒有補助了,所以大學端的部分,那個是他自己自付學費的所以他如果要拖得久一點,我也沒意見那現在畢業率不到四成其實很低\n然後我就是跟委員講其實雖然那時候不到四成可是真的有讀完七年的人他留台率很高\n四成就是這有十個來畢業的有三個三個但是這三個都留下來了兩個半或三個會留下來對都留下來了在研究這塊在研究那六個嘛是是對不對那六個就是你不講三個通通留那是另外一件事有人就是因為我研究了前面為什麼他要留師所以我盡量去改善畢業率不到四成這個很低很低確實很低是我們台灣在我們的教育裡面不是這樣的數據嗯\n你們找到原因了沒有然後你們期待今年明年的畢業率到多少有早期就是因為整個配套措施都沒有也沒有在考察這個學生的學習力實習的狀況那語言的狀況也都沒有跟進所以我們這三年來就開始持續的強化包括學校的住宿\n教學 語言 實習的狀況我們都一項一項開始把它鎖緊那希望說他們可以一年級讀到三年級所以未來的畢業率會是我們審核學校他能不能繼續增加學生人數的一個評鑑今年的畢業季五月嘛對我們的畢業率會拉起來嗎我相信會會到多少 你們的目標值是多少\n過去因為只有三到四成因為以前很低啊 基期很低基期很低 基期很低你很容易進步啦所以再說 以往畢業率不到四成你們估計今年的畢業率會多少今年要畢業的學生也只有幾百個而已大概是六七百個因為算比例所以應該入學如果七百個 畢業六百多個 那很高現在應該會有五成左右你認為會到五成嗎 是其實還是偏低 這還是要精進對 但是我相信未來三年以後都會往上繼續走我最後提醒這個事情就是說\n如果從東南亞來的所謂的僑生來我們這邊讀三加四畢業率不到四成第一個會形成我們的投資浪費我每花十塊錢有六塊呢根本就沒有了每花十塊錢人民的納稅人的錢有六塊就浪費了這個我們不容許\n這個投報率太低第二個會有變相移工的風險你們管理上會形成大困難當然我們一直在要說委員當時大概不太會有是因為當時的規模很小都是數百人而已都還不到上千數字的敏感性高一個他占比較高嘛你現在量大了嘛花了40來億嘛我們還是要monitor我們還是要監控這個數據現在我們就很重視這個就是說\n有移工的風險 有投資的浪費我們就不能長期容忍我們的公共投資我們當然鼓勵 台灣是一個開放國家海外僑生來台灣讀書 百分之一百歡迎但歷業率在四成以下 五成左右那這樣子形成我們投資的浪費可能在做法上要更嚴謹去思考那這個數據我會持續觀察好 謝謝委員我們一定會讓稅金做最好的運用 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.799 --> 00:29.027\n好謝謝主席麻煩委員長何秀文委員長謝謝王委員長安委員長我在開始詢答之前我追蹤一下一個事情的進度是我跟沈伯陽委員我們曾經去馬來西亞的台灣學校回來之後我在這邊也質詢過我們同樣在海外我們台灣人的子弟在那邊讀台灣學校用台灣的課綱用台灣的教材\n\n00:29.987 --> 00:58.004\n結果到中國的學校他們每個學期好像補助到三萬多每學年補助三萬多塊的樣子結果我們在東南亞其他的地方的類似這樣的台灣學校每個學年才一萬塊錢這個其實是非常不公平我們要強調這些是我們在海外的台灣子弟他們讀完中學之後會回台灣讀大學像馬來西亞的台灣學校辦得不錯甚至於讓馬來西亞國同意有八個國家的橋外生\n\n00:59.305 --> 01:25.877\n馬來西亞的僑外生可以去讀我們在馬來西亞的台灣學校有點像在台灣的美國學校他們已經變國際學校的規模就很多人想要去讀那一間可是我們的台灣也許是台商的子女或者是我們當地台僑的子弟那他的學費補助是一萬塊目前好像是一學年五千是教育部補助的對教育部補助那我上次質詢說我說這個不對何況在東南亞好像有七家台灣學校\n\n01:26.557 --> 01:41.142\n目前四家台灣學校他們用的是完全我們台灣的課堂完全用台灣的進度他的課本也不會被審查在中華人民共和國的台灣學校課本會用那個黑筆把中華民國塗掉把東西塗掉總統塗掉把一些有關國家代表性的東西都塗掉\n\n01:45.083 --> 02:13.138\n他還會審查你的課本課綱也沒有完全的執行這兩個差異就那一邊一學年三萬多塊錢的補助這邊一學年一萬塊錢的補助這個不僅是不公平而且有點像在懲罰照規矩來的而且這些人回到台灣讀書他們的相關的人會來這邊消費等等所以這個事情我從上次去馬來西亞看了我們的喬教中心我們的台灣學校回來質詢之後有沒有新的進度\n\n02:14.105 --> 02:30.969\n跟委員報告我們當然有把這個事情跟教育部說明那因為預算的這個編列上是在教育部的這個全署範圍內那事實上我們持續的對包括越南胡志明市那個對泰國的泰國沒有馬來西亞的吉隆坡\n\n02:36.210 --> 02:56.113\n還有在雅加達印尼雅加達跟釋水總共這四個這個台灣學校呢確實是當時設立的時候是一半教育部一半僑委會來出資協助他們設立那我們也提供各種的目前教育部的態度是怎麼樣我沒有要求把中國那塊降下來嘛\n\n02:57.094 --> 03:13.875\n我們也無法要求中國的不是那一塊是我們補助的喔是我們補助我們的台籍學生的學雜費補助嘛我現在只是說我們應該是一視同仁在東南亞的台灣孩子跟在中國的台灣孩子我們應該要公平嘛現在差了三倍啊\n\n03:15.877 --> 03:32.298\n我的了解是這一塊可能還是要看教育部自己的執行預算但是我們有跟他們表達過可能要強烈表達啦那這就是所謂的跨部會的情形那我也會尋管到看透過鄭麗君副院長或相關情形我就真的要解決\n\n03:32.919 --> 03:50.269\n這不解決我認為對在海外努力幫台灣辦學的人我覺得不公允好第二個我要請教最近有個題目說台灣會變學工之島這個題目很嚇人因為學工之島其實我們就違反聯合國很多東西那我們這邊也關注過\n\n03:51.550 --> 04:09.118\n我們鼓勵外國的人來台灣讀書僑生來台灣讀書當然不能變成打黑工甚至於更慘變奴工護照被扣著之前發生過嘛那樣的奴工化其實是違反國際的所有的普世法則聯合國的公約所以\n\n04:09.838 --> 04:37.274\n我們看我們現在3加4的方案3年就高中嘛4年就大學嘛我們對於就讀高中這個3有沒有年齡的限制還是說他只有國中學歷他就讀3還是說我要限18歲以下委員我們現在是這樣子我們3加4主要的生源國來自於東協國家主要7個那這7個國家呢各自的法規有些不一樣像越南\n\n04:38.715 --> 04:57.228\n泰國馬來西亞柬埔寨他們就沒有規範到那麼嚴格說未成年者不得出國可是在菲律賓跟印尼他們對於未成年者要出國就設定不是說不能出國就設定比較嚴的門檻你很誤會我的意思我們這一塊我知道他在讀我們的高中\n\n05:00.951 --> 05:15.956\n會不會有成年人基本上我們現在是這樣子年齡就是三加四的部分是從16歲到22歲都可以都可以所以他可以讀高中也可以讀大學對所以我們可能會發現一個21歲的在台灣讀高中\n\n05:17.537 --> 05:37.465\n是的沒有錯沒有錯確實你不覺得這怪怪的嗎我們有算過這個lifestyle就是說因為他們的這個學制跟他們學習的內容可能跟我們台灣相對有一些落後的部分我們這個預算是花我們國家的是所以你要站在說我們鼓勵海外的這些僑生來台灣讀書我當然樂見而且有補助\n\n05:40.526 --> 05:47.088\n委員我們其實已經限縮了之前的門檻更寬所以我們現在把它縮到說16歲到22歲縮小就代表問題不用檢討所以我剛才講的像你們提供的資料3加4畢業率不到4成\n\n05:57.012 --> 06:01.576\n跟委員報告那時候前幾年我們確實在103年、104年、105年那幾年當中開始試辦這個計畫的時候沒有任何配套措施然後當時是試辦計畫所以人數也很少那所以流失率也就很高那那一段時間從他們不讀了就回他們母國對沒錯他只要一不讀書\n\n06:20.754 --> 06:48.453\n他馬上就會取消他的簽證他就馬上離開畢業率不到四成畢業率不到四成不是馬上聯想到他就不讀了有可能我高中三年當作六年來讀啊不可能不可能原幣不行嗎不行不行在我們的計畫不行不行不行在我們的計畫裡面在我們這個三加四不行我們這個跟我們這個跟一般的這個一般生的狀況是不一樣所以他必須按照這個進度來他是學衛生嗎\n\n06:48.933 --> 07:04.259\n他是他有學位但是他必須按照我們三加四的時間他甚至連休學都不可以喔他一休學就馬上休學就回國了請假也不行我說三年制他必須三年念完他必須三年不能延避一年不可以\n\n07:04.759 --> 07:09.944\n大學的時候可以,但是他延畢的時候他不能實習了延畢的話你們補助也沒有了嗎?沒有了,而且跟委員報告,其實我們3加4的補助只有補助在前三年後面都沒有補助了,所以大學端的部分,那個是他自己自付學費的所以他如果要拖得久一點,我也沒意見那現在畢業率不到四成其實很低\n\n07:28.763 --> 07:35.937\n然後我就是跟委員講其實雖然那時候不到四成可是真的有讀完七年的人他留台率很高\n\n07:36.883 --> 07:59.681\n四成就是這有十個來畢業的有三個三個但是這三個都留下來了兩個半或三個會留下來對都留下來了在研究這塊在研究那六個嘛是是對不對那六個就是你不講三個通通留那是另外一件事有人就是因為我研究了前面為什麼他要留師所以我盡量去改善畢業率不到四成這個很低很低確實很低是我們台灣在我們的教育裡面不是這樣的數據嗯\n\n08:01.479 --> 08:20.678\n你們找到原因了沒有然後你們期待今年明年的畢業率到多少有早期就是因為整個配套措施都沒有也沒有在考察這個學生的學習力實習的狀況那語言的狀況也都沒有跟進所以我們這三年來就開始持續的強化包括學校的住宿\n\n08:21.278 --> 08:44.302\n教學語言實習的狀況我們都一項一項開始把它鎖緊那希望說他們可以一年級讀到三年級所以未來的畢業率會是我們審核學校他能不能繼續增加學生人數的一個評鑑今年的畢業季五月嘛對我們的畢業率會拉起來嗎我相信會會到多少你們的目標值是多少\n\n08:45.262 --> 09:13.280\n過去因為只有三到四成因為以前很低啊基期很低基期很低基期很低你很容易進步啦所以再說以往畢業率不到四成你們估計今年的畢業率會多少今年要畢業的學生也只有幾百個而已大概是六七百個因為算比例所以應該入學如果七百個畢業六百多個那很高現在應該會有五成左右你認為會到五成嗎是其實還是偏低這還是要精進對但是我相信未來三年以後都會往上繼續走我最後提醒這個事情就是說\n\n09:13.980 --> 09:31.473\n如果從東南亞來的所謂的僑生來我們這邊讀三加四畢業率不到四成第一個會形成我們的投資浪費我每花十塊錢有六塊呢根本就沒有了每花十塊錢人民的納稅人的錢有六塊就浪費了這個我們不容許\n\n09:33.213 --> 09:54.701\n這個投報率太低第二個會有變相移工的風險你們管理上會形成大困難當然我們一直在要說委員當時大概不太會有是因為當時的規模很小都是數百人而已都還不到上千數字的敏感性高一個他占比較高嘛你現在量大了嘛花了40來億嘛我們還是要monitor我們還是要監控這個數據現在我們就很重視這個就是說\n\n09:56.361 --> 10:21.920\n有移工的風險有投資的浪費我們就不能長期容忍我們的公共投資我們當然鼓勵台灣是一個開放國家海外僑生來台灣讀書百分之一百歡迎但歷業率在四成以下五成左右那這樣子形成我們投資的浪費可能在做法上要更嚴謹去思考那這個數據我會持續觀察好謝謝委員我們一定會讓稅金做最好的運用謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.799,"end":29.027,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩委員長何秀文委員長 謝謝王委員長安委員長 我在開始詢答之前我追蹤一下一個事情的進度是我跟沈伯陽委員我們曾經去馬來西亞的台灣學校回來之後我在這邊也質詢過我們同樣在海外我們台灣人的子弟在那邊讀台灣學校用台灣的課綱 用台灣的教材"},{"start":29.987,"end":58.004,"text":"結果到中國的學校他們每個學期好像補助到三萬多每學年補助三萬多塊的樣子結果我們在東南亞其他的地方的類似這樣的台灣學校每個學年才一萬塊錢這個其實是非常不公平我們要強調這些是我們在海外的台灣子弟他們讀完中學之後會回台灣讀大學像馬來西亞的台灣學校辦得不錯甚至於讓馬來西亞國同意有八個國家的橋外生"},{"start":59.305,"end":85.877,"text":"馬來西亞的僑外生可以去讀我們在馬來西亞的台灣學校有點像在台灣的美國學校他們已經變國際學校的規模就很多人想要去讀那一間可是我們的台灣也許是台商的子女或者是我們當地台僑的子弟那他的學費補助是一萬塊目前好像是一學年五千是教育部補助的對教育部補助那我上次質詢說我說這個不對何況在東南亞好像有七家台灣學校"},{"start":86.557,"end":101.142,"text":"目前四家台灣學校他們用的是完全我們台灣的課堂完全用台灣的進度他的課本也不會被審查在中華人民共和國的台灣學校課本會用那個黑筆把中華民國塗掉把東西塗掉總統塗掉把一些有關國家代表性的東西都塗掉"},{"start":105.083,"end":133.138,"text":"他還會審查你的課本課綱也沒有完全的執行這兩個差異就那一邊一學年三萬多塊錢的補助這邊一學年一萬塊錢的補助這個不僅是不公平而且有點像在懲罰照規矩來的而且這些人回到台灣讀書他們的相關的人會來這邊消費等等所以這個事情我從上次去馬來西亞看了我們的喬教中心我們的台灣學校回來質詢之後有沒有新的進度"},{"start":134.105,"end":150.969,"text":"跟委員報告我們當然有把這個事情跟教育部說明那因為預算的這個編列上是在教育部的這個全署範圍內那事實上我們持續的對包括越南胡志明市那個對泰國的泰國沒有馬來西亞的吉隆坡"},{"start":156.21,"end":176.113,"text":"還有在雅加達 印尼雅加達跟釋水總共這四個這個台灣學校呢確實是當時設立的時候是一半教育部一半僑委會來出資協助他們設立那我們也提供各種的目前教育部的態度是怎麼樣我沒有要求把中國那塊降下來嘛"},{"start":177.094,"end":193.875,"text":"我們也無法要求中國的不是 那一塊是我們補助的喔是我們補助我們的台籍學生的學雜費補助嘛我現在只是說我們應該是一視同仁在東南亞的台灣孩子跟在中國的台灣孩子我們應該要公平嘛現在差了三倍啊"},{"start":195.877,"end":212.298,"text":"我的了解是這一塊可能還是要看教育部自己的執行預算但是我們有跟他們表達過可能要強烈表達啦那這就是所謂的跨部會的情形那我也會尋管到看透過鄭麗君副院長或相關情形我就真的要解決"},{"start":212.919,"end":230.269,"text":"這不解決我認為對在海外努力幫台灣辦學的人我覺得不公允好第二個我要請教最近有個題目說台灣會變學工之島這個題目很嚇人因為學工之島其實我們就違反聯合國很多東西那我們這邊也關注過"},{"start":231.55,"end":249.118,"text":"我們鼓勵外國的人來台灣讀書僑生來台灣讀書當然不能變成打黑工甚至於更慘變奴工護照被扣著之前發生過嘛那樣的奴工化其實是違反國際的所有的普世法則聯合國的公約所以"},{"start":249.838,"end":277.274,"text":"我們看我們現在3加4的方案3年就高中嘛4年就大學嘛我們對於就讀高中這個3有沒有年齡的限制還是說他只有國中學歷他就讀3還是說我要限18歲以下委員我們現在是這樣子我們3加4主要的生源國來自於東協國家主要7個那這7個國家呢各自的法規有些不一樣像越南"},{"start":278.715,"end":297.228,"text":"泰國馬來西亞柬埔寨他們就沒有規範到那麼嚴格說未成年者不得出國可是在菲律賓跟印尼他們對於未成年者要出國就設定不是說不能出國就設定比較嚴的門檻你很誤會我的意思我們這一塊我知道他在讀我們的高中"},{"start":300.951,"end":315.956,"text":"會不會有成年人基本上我們現在是這樣子年齡就是三加四的部分是從16歲到22歲都可以都可以所以他可以讀高中也可以讀大學對所以我們可能會發現一個21歲的在台灣讀高中"},{"start":317.537,"end":337.465,"text":"是的沒有錯沒有錯確實你不覺得這怪怪的嗎我們有算過這個lifestyle就是說因為他們的這個學制跟他們學習的內容可能跟我們台灣相對有一些落後的部分我們這個預算是花我們國家的是所以你要站在說我們鼓勵海外的這些僑生來台灣讀書我當然樂見而且有補助"},{"start":340.526,"end":347.088,"text":"委員我們其實已經限縮了之前的門檻更寬所以我們現在把它縮到說16歲到22歲縮小就代表問題不用檢討所以我剛才講的像你們提供的資料3加4畢業率不到4成"},{"start":357.012,"end":361.576,"text":"跟委員報告那時候前幾年我們確實在103年、104年、105年那幾年當中開始試辦這個計畫的時候沒有任何配套措施然後當時是試辦計畫所以人數也很少那所以流失率也就很高那那一段時間從他們不讀了就回他們母國對沒錯他只要一不讀書"},{"start":380.754,"end":408.453,"text":"他馬上就會取消他的簽證他就馬上離開畢業率不到四成畢業率不到四成不是馬上聯想到他就不讀了有可能我高中三年當作六年來讀啊不可能不可能原幣不行嗎不行不行在我們的計畫不行不行不行在我們的計畫裡面在我們這個三加四不行我們這個跟我們這個跟一般的這個一般生的狀況是不一樣所以他必須按照這個進度來他是學衛生嗎"},{"start":408.933,"end":424.259,"text":"他是他有學位但是他必須按照我們三加四的時間他甚至連休學都不可以喔他一休學就馬上休學就回國了請假也不行我說三年制他必須三年念完他必須三年不能延避一年不可以"},{"start":424.759,"end":429.944,"text":"大學的時候可以,但是他延畢的時候他不能實習了延畢的話你們補助也沒有了嗎?沒有了,而且跟委員報告,其實我們3加4的補助只有補助在前三年後面都沒有補助了,所以大學端的部分,那個是他自己自付學費的所以他如果要拖得久一點,我也沒意見那現在畢業率不到四成其實很低"},{"start":448.763,"end":455.937,"text":"然後我就是跟委員講其實雖然那時候不到四成可是真的有讀完七年的人他留台率很高"},{"start":456.883,"end":479.681,"text":"四成就是這有十個來畢業的有三個三個但是這三個都留下來了兩個半或三個會留下來對都留下來了在研究這塊在研究那六個嘛是是對不對那六個就是你不講三個通通留那是另外一件事有人就是因為我研究了前面為什麼他要留師所以我盡量去改善畢業率不到四成這個很低很低確實很低是我們台灣在我們的教育裡面不是這樣的數據嗯"},{"start":481.479,"end":500.678,"text":"你們找到原因了沒有然後你們期待今年明年的畢業率到多少有早期就是因為整個配套措施都沒有也沒有在考察這個學生的學習力實習的狀況那語言的狀況也都沒有跟進所以我們這三年來就開始持續的強化包括學校的住宿"},{"start":501.278,"end":524.302,"text":"教學 語言 實習的狀況我們都一項一項開始把它鎖緊那希望說他們可以一年級讀到三年級所以未來的畢業率會是我們審核學校他能不能繼續增加學生人數的一個評鑑今年的畢業季五月嘛對我們的畢業率會拉起來嗎我相信會會到多少 你們的目標值是多少"},{"start":525.262,"end":553.28,"text":"過去因為只有三到四成因為以前很低啊 基期很低基期很低 基期很低你很容易進步啦所以再說 以往畢業率不到四成你們估計今年的畢業率會多少今年要畢業的學生也只有幾百個而已大概是六七百個因為算比例所以應該入學如果七百個 畢業六百多個 那很高現在應該會有五成左右你認為會到五成嗎 是其實還是偏低 這還是要精進對 但是我相信未來三年以後都會往上繼續走我最後提醒這個事情就是說"},{"start":553.98,"end":571.473,"text":"如果從東南亞來的所謂的僑生來我們這邊讀三加四畢業率不到四成第一個會形成我們的投資浪費我每花十塊錢有六塊呢根本就沒有了每花十塊錢人民的納稅人的錢有六塊就浪費了這個我們不容許"},{"start":573.213,"end":594.701,"text":"這個投報率太低第二個會有變相移工的風險你們管理上會形成大困難當然我們一直在要說委員當時大概不太會有是因為當時的規模很小都是數百人而已都還不到上千數字的敏感性高一個他占比較高嘛你現在量大了嘛花了40來億嘛我們還是要monitor我們還是要監控這個數據現在我們就很重視這個就是說"},{"start":596.361,"end":621.92,"text":"有移工的風險 有投資的浪費我們就不能長期容忍我們的公共投資我們當然鼓勵 台灣是一個開放國家海外僑生來台灣讀書 百分之一百歡迎但歷業率在四成以下 五成左右那這樣子形成我們投資的浪費可能在做法上要更嚴謹去思考那這個數據我會持續觀察好 謝謝委員我們一定會讓稅金做最好的運用 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":211,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（9時50分）謝謝主席，麻煩委員長。"],["主席：有請委員長，謝謝。"],["徐委員長佳青：王委員早安。"],["王委員定宇：委員長，在開始詢答之前，我追蹤一下一件事情的進度。我跟沈伯洋委員曾經去過馬來西亞的臺灣學校，回來之後我在這邊也質詢過。同樣在海外，我們臺灣人的子弟在那邊讀臺灣學校，用臺灣的課綱、用臺灣的教材，結果到中國辦的臺灣學校，他們每個學年好像補助到三萬多塊的樣子，而在東南亞其他地方類似這樣的臺灣學校每學年才補助一萬塊錢，這其實是非常不公平。我們要強調，這些是我們在海外的臺灣子弟，他們讀完中學之後會回臺灣讀大學，像馬來西亞的臺灣學校辦得不錯，甚至於讓馬來西亞同意有8個國家的馬來西亞僑外生可以去讀在馬來西亞的臺灣學校，有點像在臺灣的美國學校……"],["徐委員長佳青：他們已經變國際學校的規模。"],["王委員定宇：很多人想要去讀那一間。可是我們臺灣的部分，也許是臺商的子女或是我們當地臺僑的子弟，他的學費補助是一萬塊嘛，目前好像是一學年5,000。"],["徐委員長佳青：是，是教育部補助的。"],["王委員定宇：對，教育部補助。我上次質詢時，我說這個不對，何況在東南亞好像有7家臺灣學校？"],["徐委員長佳青：目前有4家。"],["王委員定宇：4家臺灣學校，他們用的完全是我們臺灣的課綱。"],["徐委員長佳青：對，完全用臺灣的進度。"],["王委員定宇：他的課本也不會被審查。"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["王委員定宇：在中華人民共和國的臺灣學校，課本會用黑筆把「中華民國」塗掉、把一些東西塗掉、把「總統」塗掉，把一些有關國家代表性的東西都塗掉，他還會審查你的課本，課綱也沒有完全執行，這兩個是有所差異的，結果那邊一學年有三萬多塊錢的補助，這邊一學年是一萬塊錢的補助，這不僅是不公平，而且有點像在懲罰照規矩來的，並且這些人回到臺灣讀書時，他們相關的人會來這邊消費等等。這個事情從我上次去馬來西亞看了我們的僑教中心、我們的臺灣學校，進而回來質詢之後，有沒有新的進度？"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員報告，我們當然有把這個事情跟教育部說明，因為預算編列是在教育部的權屬範圍內。事實上，我們持續對包括越南胡志明市、馬來西亞吉隆坡，還有在印尼雅加達跟泗水，總共這4個臺灣學校，當時設立的時候是一半教育部、一半僑委會來出資協助他們設立，我們也提供各種的……"],["王委員定宇：目前教育部的態度是怎麼樣？我沒有要求要把中國那一塊降下來嘛，我們……"],["徐委員長佳青：我們也無法要求中國。"],["王委員定宇：不是，那一塊是我們補助的，我們補助我們臺籍學生的學雜費，我現在指的是，我們應該是一視同仁，在東南亞的臺灣孩子跟在中國的臺灣孩子應該要公平，但現在差了3倍啊。"],["徐委員長佳青：就我的了解，這一塊可能還是要看教育部自己的執行預算，但是我們有跟他們表達過。"],["王委員定宇：第一個，可能要強烈表達啦。"],["徐委員長佳青：好。"],["王委員定宇：因為這就是所謂跨部會的情形。我也會循管道，透過鄭麗君副院長或是相關情形。這個要解決，這個不解決，我認為對於在海外努力幫臺灣辦學的人並不公允。","第二個，我要請教，最近有個題目說臺灣會變學工之島，這個題目很嚇人，因為學工之島，其實我們就違反了聯合國很多東西。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["王委員定宇：我們也關注過，我們鼓勵外國的人來臺灣讀書、僑生來臺灣讀書，但他不能變打黑工，甚至更慘，變奴工，護照被扣著，之前發生過嘛，那樣的奴工化其實違反國際所有的普世法則、聯合國的公約。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["王委員定宇：我們看到現在的「3+4」方案，3年就是高中，4年就是大學，對於就讀高中的這個「3」有沒有年齡限制？還是說他只有國中學歷就讀「3」？還是說限18歲以下？"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，現在是這樣，我們3+4的生源國主要來自於7個東協國家，這7個國家各自的法規有些不一樣，像越南、泰國、馬來西亞、柬埔寨，他們就沒有規範到那麼嚴格說未成年者不得出國，可是在菲律賓跟印尼，他們對於未成年者要出國，也不是不能出國，就是設定比較嚴的門檻……"],["王委員定宇：你可能誤會我的意思，我問的是我們這一塊……"],["徐委員長佳青：我知道。"],["王委員定宇：來讀我們高中的會不會有成年人？"],["徐委員長佳青：基本上，我們現在是這樣子，3+4的年齡部分是從16歲到22歲……"],["王委員定宇：都可以？"],["徐委員長佳青：都可以。"],["王委員定宇：所以他可以讀高中，也可以讀大學？"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["王委員定宇：所以我們可能會發現一個21歲的在臺灣讀高中？"],["徐委員長佳青：是的，沒有錯，確實……"],["王委員定宇：你不覺得這個怪怪的嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：我們有算過這個life style，因為他們的學制跟他們學習的內容，可能跟我們臺灣相對來說有一些落後的部分……"],["王委員定宇：這個預算是花我們國家的……"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["王委員定宇：所以你要站在我們是鼓勵海外僑生來臺灣讀書的角度，我當然樂見，而且也有補助……"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，我們其實已經限縮了，之前的門檻更寬，所以……"],["王委員定宇：對，之前更嚴重，但現在……"],["徐委員長佳青：所以我們現在把年齡縮到16歲到22歲。"],["王委員定宇：縮小不代表問題不用檢討……"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["王委員定宇：所以我剛才講的，像你們提供的資料，3+4的畢業率不到四成……"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員報告，我們確實在103年、104年、105年那幾年當中，開始試辦這個計畫的時候沒有任何配套措施，當時是試辦計畫，人數也很少，所以流失率也很高。那一段時間從去……"],["王委員定宇：他們不讀了就回他們的母國這樣嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：對，沒錯，他只要一不讀書，馬上他的簽證就會被取消，他就馬上得離開……"],["王委員定宇：好。所以畢業率不到四成……"],["徐委員長佳青：畢業率不到四成，但是留……"],["王委員定宇：不是馬上聯想到他就不讀了，但有可能他高中3年當作6年來讀啊！"],["徐委員長佳青：不可能。"],["王委員定宇：延畢不行嗎？大學不能……"],["徐委員長佳青：不行，在我們的計畫不行……"],["王委員定宇：不行嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：不行、不行，在我們的計畫裡面，在我們這個3+4……"],["王委員定宇：你要不要說明一下，像學分沒有修滿，多……"],["徐委員長佳青：不行，我們這個制度跟一般生的狀況是不一樣的，所以他必須按照進度來。"],["王委員定宇：他是學位生嘛。"],["徐委員長佳青：他有學位，但是他必須按照我們3+4的時間，他甚至連休學都不可以喔，他一休學就馬上……"],["王委員定宇：所以我再問清楚，休學就沒有了……"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["王委員定宇：休學就回國了……"],["徐委員長佳青：請假也不行。"],["王委員定宇：我是說3年制的高中……"],["徐委員長佳青：他必須3年念完。"],["王委員定宇：他必須3年念完，不能延畢1年？"],["徐委員長佳青：對，不可以。大學的時候可以，但是他延畢的時候，他不能實習了。"],["王委員定宇：延畢的話，你們的補助也沒有了嘛？"],["徐委員長佳青：沒有了、沒有了，而且跟委員報告，其實我們3+4的補助只有補助前3年，後面都沒有補助了，所以大學端的部分，那是他自付學費的，他如果要讀比較久就讓他讀，我們也沒意見，因為他自己要出錢。"],["王委員定宇：現在畢業率不到四成，其實很低，現在你估計明年……"],["徐委員長佳青：我就是跟委員講，其實雖然那時候不到四成，可是真的有讀完7年的人，他留臺率很高，四成的……"],["王委員定宇：就是說有10個來，畢業的有3個……"],["徐委員長佳青：對，3個，但是這3個都留下來了。"],["王委員定宇：但是這3個有兩個半或3個會留下來……"],["徐委員長佳青：對，都留下來了。"],["王委員定宇：我現在不是研究這一塊，我在研究那6個嘛，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：是，那6個就是……"],["王委員定宇：你跟我講這3個通通留，那是另外一件事情。"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，就是因為我研究了前面為什麼他流失，所以我儘量去改善。"],["王委員定宇：好，我繼續問。畢業率不到四成，這個很低，確實很低……"],["徐委員長佳青：很低，是。"],["王委員定宇：在我們臺灣的教育裡面，不是這樣的數據，你們找到原因了沒有？你們期待今年、明年的畢業率到多少？"],["徐委員長佳青：有。早期就是因為整個配套措施都沒有，也沒有在考察學生的學習力、實習的狀況，語言的狀況也都沒有跟進，所以我們這三年來就開始持續的強化，包括學校的住宿、教學、語言、實習的狀況，我們都一項一項開始把它鎖緊，希望他們可以從一年級讀到三年級，所以未來的畢業率，會是我們審核學校能不能繼續增加學生人數的評鑑項目之一。"],["王委員定宇：你估計今年5月的畢業季，我們的畢業率會拉起來嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：我相信會。"],["王委員定宇：會到多少，你們的目標值是多少？"],["徐委員長佳青：過去因為只有三到四成……"],["王委員定宇：因為以前基期很低……"],["徐委員長佳青：基期很低、基期很低。"],["王委員定宇：你很容易進步啦！"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["王委員定宇：以往畢業率不到四成，你們估計今年的畢業率會到多少？"],["徐委員長佳青：今年要畢業的學生也只有幾百個而已，大概是六、七百個……"],["王委員定宇：算比例啦！"],["徐委員長佳青：因為也算比例，所以應當……"],["王委員定宇：入學如果有700個，畢業六百多個，那是很高喔。"],["徐委員長佳青：現在應該會有五成左右。"],["王委員定宇：你認為會到五成嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["王委員定宇：其實還是偏低，這個還是要精進。"],["徐委員長佳青：對，但是我相信未來三年以後都會往上繼續走。"],["王委員定宇：我最後要提醒的這件事情就是，如果從東南亞來的所謂僑生來我們這邊讀3+4，畢業率不到四成，第一個，會形成我們的投資浪費，每花10塊錢有6塊根本就沒有了。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。對。"],["王委員定宇：每花10塊納稅人的錢有6塊就浪費了，這個我們不容許，這個投報率太低。第二個，會有變相移工的風險，你們管理上會形成很大的困難，當然我們一直在要求……"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，當時大概不太會有是因為當時的規模很小，都是數百人而已，都還不到上千。"],["王委員定宇：規模小，數字的敏感性高，也就是它占比就高嘛，你現在量大了嘛，花了四十來億嘛，但我們還是要monitor，我們還是要監控這個數據……"],["徐委員長佳青：對，現在我們就很重視這個……"],["王委員定宇：就是說有移工的風險，有投資的浪費，我們就不能長期容忍我們的公共投資有此狀況。我們當然鼓勵，臺灣是一個開放國家，海外僑生來臺灣讀書百分之一百歡迎，但畢業率在四成以下、五成左右，這樣形成我們投資的浪費，可能在作法上要更嚴謹去思考，這個數據我會持續觀察。謝謝。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。好。謝謝委員，我們一定會讓稅金做最好的運用。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。現在請黃仁委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-3","speakers":["沈伯洋","徐巧芯","羅美玲","陳俊宇","王定宇","黃仁","林楚茵","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","林憶君","張啓楷","黃國昌","馬文君"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142801_00013"}}}