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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 857.462, \"end\": 857.622, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 857.622, \"end\": 857.922, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 857.922, \"end\": 858.022, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 858.022, \"end\": 858.103, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"魯\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 858.103, \"end\": 858.243, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"哲\", \"start\": 858.243, \"end\": 858.263, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:16,820 --> 00:00:40,065\n好謝謝主席有請工程會陳主委好陳主委委員長陳主委這個再跟你確認一下理性確認一下我們那個金子獎的問題啊那個你們是主計還是會計啊這個金子獎在公共工程的一個管理業務嘛這個\n\n2\n00:00:45,218 --> 00:01:02,532\n公共工程管理業務的項下裡面的一個內容裡面可能有十幾二十個五十個內容總共編入多少我來跟委員報告我目前被刪除的一個煤氣費用220萬是只針對公共工程在查核的時候做記錄然後辦理金職獎\n\n3\n00:01:05,195 --> 00:01:21,251\n這項業務220萬可能被誤殺了啦就是說我們不是做其他媒體宣傳只是做金職獎這件事情而已220萬完全刪除所以這樣子我們沒辦法去去做做宣傳做廣告或替得獎的人做一些紀錄所以這個金職獎因為這220萬會會失去很多啦你那3589萬刪除多少來另外不是\n\n4\n00:01:27,497 --> 00:01:48,187\n凍結的是凍結50%我知道嘛3589萬你們是在這個公共工程管理業務這個科目我們先講科目啊會計的科目沒有一個科目叫做金子獎啦他的科目就是公共工程管理業務這一個科目裡面你們要做很多事其中有一些是金子獎請問一下3589萬刪除多少\n\n5\n00:01:54,924 --> 00:02:21,306\n山洞多少沒關係有山有洞我知道嘛3589萬山竹多少因為金職獎在金職獎在工程會的在工程公管處的預算裡面所以公管處的預算裡面1517萬凍結一半的話就只剩下758萬啦那這個不是金職獎業務而已整個工程管理處相關的業務都需要這個錢所以我們金職獎需要1060萬\n\n6\n00:02:23,948 --> 00:02:32,660\n1060萬如果說整個公管處凍結下來只剩下758萬可以用包括金職獎以及其他業務的話根本無法辦理金職獎好\n\n7\n00:02:34,998 --> 00:02:59,073\n現在你親自講的一個部分因為本身你們的業務都包含在整個的一個科目裡面那本身科目的話當然有統三有三減有凍結這個部分我們都知道嘛那我們覺得因為你本身的一個大的一個科目下面如果向下本身如果剩下的部分你可以先去做處理的還是先去做前期的處理那比較稍微不及的其他的業務\n\n8\n00:03:00,094 --> 00:03:25,324\n放在後面等解凍再來這是我給你的建議啦好不好看看能不能能夠達到這個讓這個事情也可以去做來我想這個我先要謝謝這個陳主委啊我看你這個到機場公司啊對於我們三航廈甚至我們三跑道未來一個發展你是做蠻多關注的我特別有注意到\n\n9\n00:03:26,204 --> 00:03:39,461\n那確實在今年過年的時候特別覺得恐怖啊要你知道出國回國那個一航廈二航廈這個人人潮擠爆了他吞吐量確實按照疫情之前當時覺得未來\n\n10\n00:03:42,481 --> 00:04:04,288\n出入境的人越來越多的時候我們現在兩個行下吞吐量是根本不夠的服務品質是絕對不夠的現在已經看到是非常非常嚴重那三行下當時預計的吞吐量就覺得非常非常重要我們看到下表2019年當年出入境跟過境的人數有4869萬你看到最後\n\n11\n00:04:09,645 --> 00:04:20,137\n2024就是去年快要差不多九成多了總共也這個使用到機場的也有4492萬那我這樣請問一下就第一個問題目前T3航廈\n\n12\n00:04:27,301 --> 00:04:56,005\n它的一個進度56.33因為我們希望是要完工的整個進度你是定在明年度的11月可是我們看到很多的一個配合的一個相關的一些工程當然有一些要硬體完成它可以進場的那當然最後一個包括PMS這個部分你對於整體能夠如期如質完工的目前就你深入的了解你來做一個說明好嗎\n\n13\n00:04:58,223 --> 00:05:15,785\n謝謝委員的關心他幾個部分有些停機坪已經可以完工先提供使用停機坪那接下來就是被登記廊廳已慢了一些所以我們要求今年9月15一定要完成9月15一定要馬上能夠\n\n14\n00:05:16,966 --> 00:05:39,631\n使用了那接下來就是那個主體跟藍燈機廊廳所以整個希望在116年能夠完工那目前呢陶磯公司也全力在推進啦北燈機廊廳大概在中休了在中休休未所以希望今年9月15能夠完成啟用但目前的進度是這樣整個通通完成可能要等到116年\n\n15\n00:05:41,411 --> 00:06:07,813\n好那因為這幾天我也跟機場公司有了解北登基廊廳預計剛剛我去年問你的時候原本的目標是在今年希望年中啊能夠弄好那你剛才講慢了一點那但是我是覺得要有把握一點好不好就是說因為旅客這麼多要進去相關的一些設施要請淘機公司淘機公司在工程真的要弄好不要弄一個\n\n16\n00:06:09,263 --> 00:06:17,540\n辦成品這樣一進去人家用罵得亂七八糟的這個部分我是希望以工程會立場要特別關注提醒淘汰公司好不好\n\n17\n00:06:19,707 --> 00:06:44,796\n那我接下來要講的最後一個就PMS那當然這個也要這個因為你的介入不是介入去關注跟淘擠公司最後的一個想法他是業主因為我們看到三航廈PMS這樣的一個航廈電巴的一個情況那我們之前談過我們就不說了就是在得標在112年12月25號得標之後\n\n18\n00:06:48,331 --> 00:07:09,723\n一路來的新歷路程到了去年解約那現在呢最新的3月11號又開始辦招標說明會了方式還是航廈電吧那個你指導他們啦因為工程類採購法的一個部分啦過去一定有些問題所以我有兩個問題第一個\n\n19\n00:07:12,950 --> 00:07:34,098\n解約了我看誰向誰要錢還不知道那個部分多少錢我這邊不預判那現在再招標呢比原本的招標17億多變18億可能因為物價調整那你看看你覺得這一次有沒有發生這樣的一個事情有沒有人要人應該要負責\n\n20\n00:07:35,959 --> 00:07:46,546\n或說警告處分不是說下台啦都沒有人要負責就是說很虛幻的一件事就是哇這個大問題然後發覺沒有能力我們找到\n\n21\n00:07:47,560 --> 00:08:07,218\n沒有能力的人然後又要解約然後可能還要吵來吵去誰賠誰錢還不知道然後又重新加了一億再招標這中間到底你們在檢討的過程沒有人要負責嗎跟委員報告的確委員的見解相當正確是因為一個採購的\n\n22\n00:08:10,060 --> 00:08:34,986\n方式導致整個國家重大的工程延宕所以我們會請交通部就前期的這個採購啊那麼他的檢討報告送到工程會或者是我們相關會來瞭解會請交通部來完成這個調查報告好我希望趕快做那再來是\n\n23\n00:08:37,938 --> 00:08:48,224\n我在去年9月30號特別有跟你討論這些事情也不光是我好幾位委員都在討論當時發生的這個問題航廈電吧發生的一些問題那我們討論到其中有一點你給我回答我說奇怪為什麼有這麼多能力可能不太夠的我們那時候講說要渣男廠商我不知道正不正確為什麼他可以一直在這邊\n\n24\n00:09:02,032 --> 00:09:19,254\n活得很厲害什麼都可以飆到讓後面都做不成那時候你也說我們希望能夠建置這些廠商的履歷讓優秀廠商跟不好的廠商大家一看就清楚畢竟發報單位從中央政府到地方政府到鄉鎮事工所\n\n25\n00:09:19,935 --> 00:09:36,242\n你知道嗎大家我哪知道哪家廠商是好還是壞所以這時候有相關的有沒有統一的一個系統建置你說這個履歷其實我蠻期待的但是好像現在只能對工程類這些服務的又完全沒辦法是什麼情況要不要說明一下請處長來跟你說明另外我補充一點就是\n\n26\n00:09:42,253 --> 00:10:08,506\n我們將來這個有不管是承包商或者其他的分包商我們將來這個在101條款的時候啊那麼也會重新修正就能夠希望一方面符合比例原則一方面也關注的到有些廠商這個得標A然後換個名字又去標B那這個我們會透過法制來防度這樣的現象那至於廠商的部分我想請處長來說明\n\n27\n00:10:10,427 --> 00:10:33,681\n目前我們的履歷是針對施工廠商那施工廠商假設有牽涉到他建造或設計的部分我們會在履歷裡面去呈現那不過單獨針對勞務類的設計的或是設計類的技術性的公司我們現在沒有去把他納進來這個部分假設要全面去管理我們系統我們可以去做擴充以上\n\n28\n00:10:34,161 --> 00:10:49,492\n不過我覺得還是要思考啦因為畢竟一個工程或者說一個先進的一個設施能不能做成功你知道嗎每一顆螺絲如果是不行都是最後沒辦法成功啦所以我覺得像舉個例子像李立李立\n\n29\n00:10:50,313 --> 00:11:20,016\n他因為這次我看到我問的淘汰公司你們又上網了又重新了那到底有什麼在標案中間有什麼精進的一個條件嗎他最主要裡面寫的必須要有相當經驗或實績者我覺得這很好還刮乎國外業績均可記錄啦可是我蠻害怕的我就想這個是處長嗎處長你來回答一下好不好就是如果李莉再來投標再來聯合投標可不可以啊\n\n30\n00:11:20,877 --> 00:11:26,562\n我跟委員報我判斷履歷之前所謂的時機只是一個測試階段他並沒有上路的時機所以這個時機的認定要請台積公司務必慎重\n\n31\n00:11:40,472 --> 00:12:05,691\n好啦我直接說啦我不要講說光是李立啦像類似這樣的公司甚至在國防領域聽過很多很奇怪的但是就李立來講他最早進入台灣能夠得標包括鐵道局或者幾個地方政府的自駕車最主要來源他都說他是美國佛羅里達州傑克遜威爾士自駕\n\n32\n00:12:07,234 --> 00:12:34,775\n這個系統因為哇那個弄得很大所以這個履歷到時候還在台灣還得獎經濟部還要頒他頒獎所以我在講說這個部分我覺得關卡還是蠻重要的誰來把關最後一個建議因為在上次的評審委員在挑選的過程中我們發覺其實每一個領域差一點還差蠻多的但是每一個領域可能都有都會的地方所以在這中間\n\n33\n00:12:36,917 --> 00:12:57,417\n這個這個航廈電吧的部分你找了很多領域當然機場公司一定要電力的有但是你主要以軌道工程捷運工程其實這個領域不太是有一些不太一樣我真的是希望你們建議啊那你不能干預嘛你建議啊你們下次是不是再對於航廈還是電吧哦自駕電吧這種概念啊\n\n34\n00:12:58,078 --> 00:13:24,164\n能不能要去找一下真正在這個領域我覺得他比較專業的人一定有為什麼呢因為交通部跟我們這個車安中心在去年度就已經有研擬出自駕公車實驗運行安全的指引的草案我相信這個東西一定有專家在後面幫交通部跟車安中心把這個研究出來\n\n35\n00:13:24,864 --> 00:13:44,842\n所以我是希望真的能夠在這麼多名單中間當然有軌道的要自駕電巴這些的實務的系統的專家學者我們真的希望也你這邊能不能建議那個淘汰公司也能夠一併納入讓能夠未來能夠真正的專業投入在審查過程中\n\n36\n00:13:46,519 --> 00:14:08,698\n建立淘擠公司就評審委員審查委員的組成啊那務必能夠多元那包括剛才委員所關注的問題我們會跟淘擠公司來建議還有什麼密集要講的啊委員報告就是說那個如果淘擠公司他組成這個評審委員他要先公開廠商是可以建議當然我們也可以給他一些建議啦\n\n37\n00:14:09,878 --> 00:14:18,263\n那建議啦你這個自駕電吧已經出了一次問題了還是自駕電吧這一系列找幾個專家我覺得這樣比較好好謝謝好謝謝我們魯明哲\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n16820\t40065\t好謝謝主席有請工程會陳主委好陳主委委員長陳主委這個再跟你確認一下理性確認一下我們那個金子獎的問題啊那個你們是主計還是會計啊這個金子獎在公共工程的一個管理業務嘛這個\n45218\t62532\t公共工程管理業務的項下裡面的一個內容裡面可能有十幾二十個五十個內容總共編入多少我來跟委員報告我目前被刪除的一個煤氣費用220萬是只針對公共工程在查核的時候做記錄然後辦理金職獎\n65195\t81251\t這項業務220萬可能被誤殺了啦就是說我們不是做其他媒體宣傳只是做金職獎這件事情而已220萬完全刪除所以這樣子我們沒辦法去去做做宣傳做廣告或替得獎的人做一些紀錄所以這個金職獎因為這220萬會會失去很多啦你那3589萬刪除多少來另外不是\n87497\t108187\t凍結的是凍結50%我知道嘛3589萬你們是在這個公共工程管理業務這個科目我們先講科目啊會計的科目沒有一個科目叫做金子獎啦他的科目就是公共工程管理業務這一個科目裡面你們要做很多事其中有一些是金子獎請問一下3589萬刪除多少\n114924\t141306\t山洞多少沒關係有山有洞我知道嘛3589萬山竹多少因為金職獎在金職獎在工程會的在工程公管處的預算裡面所以公管處的預算裡面1517萬凍結一半的話就只剩下758萬啦那這個不是金職獎業務而已整個工程管理處相關的業務都需要這個錢所以我們金職獎需要1060萬\n143948\t152660\t1060萬如果說整個公管處凍結下來只剩下758萬可以用包括金職獎以及其他業務的話根本無法辦理金職獎好\n154998\t179073\t現在你親自講的一個部分因為本身你們的業務都包含在整個的一個科目裡面那本身科目的話當然有統三有三減有凍結這個部分我們都知道嘛那我們覺得因為你本身的一個大的一個科目下面如果向下本身如果剩下的部分你可以先去做處理的還是先去做前期的處理那比較稍微不及的其他的業務\n180094\t205324\t放在後面等解凍再來這是我給你的建議啦好不好看看能不能能夠達到這個讓這個事情也可以去做來我想這個我先要謝謝這個陳主委啊我看你這個到機場公司啊對於我們三航廈甚至我們三跑道未來一個發展你是做蠻多關注的我特別有注意到\n206204\t219461\t那確實在今年過年的時候特別覺得恐怖啊要你知道出國回國那個一航廈二航廈這個人人潮擠爆了他吞吐量確實按照疫情之前當時覺得未來\n222481\t244288\t出入境的人越來越多的時候我們現在兩個行下吞吐量是根本不夠的服務品質是絕對不夠的現在已經看到是非常非常嚴重那三行下當時預計的吞吐量就覺得非常非常重要我們看到下表2019年當年出入境跟過境的人數有4869萬你看到最後\n249645\t260137\t2024就是去年快要差不多九成多了總共也這個使用到機場的也有4492萬那我這樣請問一下就第一個問題目前T3航廈\n267301\t296005\t它的一個進度56.33因為我們希望是要完工的整個進度你是定在明年度的11月可是我們看到很多的一個配合的一個相關的一些工程當然有一些要硬體完成它可以進場的那當然最後一個包括PMS這個部分你對於整體能夠如期如質完工的目前就你深入的了解你來做一個說明好嗎\n298223\t315785\t謝謝委員的關心 他幾個部分有些停機坪已經可以完工先提供使用 停機坪那接下來就是被登記廊廳 已慢了一些所以我們要求今年9月15一定要完成9月15一定要馬上能夠\n316966\t339631\t使用了那接下來就是那個主體跟藍燈機廊廳所以整個希望在116年能夠完工那目前呢陶磯公司也全力在推進啦北燈機廊廳大概在中休了在中休休未所以希望今年9月15能夠完成啟用但目前的進度是這樣整個通通完成可能要等到116年\n341411\t367813\t好那因為這幾天我也跟機場公司有了解北登基廊廳預計剛剛我去年問你的時候原本的目標是在今年希望年中啊能夠弄好那你剛才講慢了一點那但是我是覺得要有把握一點好不好就是說因為旅客這麼多要進去相關的一些設施要請淘機公司淘機公司在工程真的要弄好不要弄一個\n369263\t377540\t辦成品這樣 一進去人家用罵得亂七八糟的這個部分我是希望以工程會立場要特別關注提醒淘汰公司好不好\n379707\t404796\t那我接下來要講的最後一個就PMS那當然這個也要這個因為你的介入不是介入去關注跟淘擠公司最後的一個想法他是業主因為我們看到三航廈PMS這樣的一個航廈電巴的一個情況那我們之前談過我們就不說了就是在得標在112年12月25號得標之後\n408331\t429723\t一路來的新歷路程到了去年解約那現在呢最新的3月11號又開始辦招標說明會了方式還是航廈電吧那個你指導他們啦因為工程類採購法的一個部分啦過去一定有些問題所以我有兩個問題第一個\n432950\t454098\t解約了我看誰向誰要錢還不知道那個部分多少錢我這邊不預判那現在再招標呢比原本的招標17億多變18億可能因為物價調整那你看看你覺得這一次有沒有發生這樣的一個事情有沒有人要人應該要負責\n455959\t466546\t或說警告處分不是說下台啦都沒有人要負責就是說很虛幻的一件事就是哇 這個大問題然後發覺沒有能力我們找到\n467560\t487218\t沒有能力的人然後又要解約然後可能還要吵來吵去誰賠誰錢還不知道然後又重新加了一億再招標這中間到底你們在檢討的過程沒有人要負責嗎跟委員報告的確委員的見解相當正確是因為一個採購的\n490060\t514986\t方式導致整個國家重大的工程延宕所以我們會請交通部就前期的這個採購啊那麼他的檢討報告送到工程會或者是我們相關會來瞭解會請交通部來完成這個調查報告好我希望趕快做那再來是\n517938\t528224\t我在去年9月30號特別有跟你討論這些事情也不光是我好幾位委員都在討論當時發生的這個問題航廈電吧發生的一些問題那我們討論到其中有一點你給我回答我說奇怪為什麼有這麼多能力可能不太夠的我們那時候講說要渣男廠商我不知道正不正確為什麼他可以一直在這邊\n542032\t559254\t活得很厲害什麼都可以飆到讓後面都做不成那時候你也說我們希望能夠建置這些廠商的履歷讓優秀廠商跟不好的廠商大家一看就清楚畢竟發報單位從中央政府到地方政府到鄉鎮事工所\n559935\t576242\t你知道嗎大家我哪知道哪家廠商是好還是壞所以這時候有相關的有沒有統一的一個系統建置你說這個履歷其實我蠻期待的但是好像現在只能對工程類這些服務的又完全沒辦法是什麼情況要不要說明一下請處長來跟你說明另外我補充一點就是\n582253\t608506\t我們將來這個有不管是承包商或者其他的分包商我們將來這個在101條款的時候啊那麼也會重新修正就能夠希望一方面符合比例原則一方面也關注的到有些廠商這個得標A然後換個名字又去標B那這個我們會透過法制來防度這樣的現象那至於廠商的部分我想請處長來說明\n610427\t633681\t目前我們的履歷是針對施工廠商那施工廠商假設有牽涉到他建造或設計的部分我們會在履歷裡面去呈現那不過單獨針對勞務類的設計的或是設計類的技術性的公司我們現在沒有去把他納進來這個部分假設要全面去管理我們系統我們可以去做擴充以上\n634161\t649492\t不過我覺得還是要思考啦因為畢竟一個工程或者說一個先進的一個設施能不能做成功你知道嗎每一顆螺絲如果是不行都是最後沒辦法成功啦所以我覺得像舉個例子像李立李立\n650313\t680016\t他因為這次我看到我問的淘汰公司你們又上網了又重新了那到底有什麼在標案中間有什麼精進的一個條件嗎他最主要裡面寫的必須要有相當經驗或實績者我覺得這很好還刮乎國外業績均可記錄啦可是我蠻害怕的我就想這個是處長嗎處長你來回答一下好不好就是如果李莉再來投標再來聯合投標可不可以啊\n680877\t686562\t我跟委員報我判斷履歷之前所謂的時機只是一個測試階段他並沒有上路的時機所以這個時機的認定要請台積公司務必慎重\n700472\t725691\t好啦 我直接說啦 我不要講說光是李立啦像類似這樣的公司甚至在國防領域 聽過很多很奇怪的但是就李立來講 他最早進入台灣能夠得標包括鐵道局或者幾個地方政府的自駕車最主要來源他都說他是美國佛羅里達州傑克遜威爾士自駕\n727234\t754775\t這個系統因為哇那個弄得很大所以這個履歷到時候還在台灣還得獎經濟部還要頒他頒獎所以我在講說這個部分我覺得關卡還是蠻重要的誰來把關最後一個建議因為在上次的評審委員在挑選的過程中我們發覺其實每一個領域差一點還差蠻多的但是每一個領域可能都有都會的地方所以在這中間\n756917\t777417\t這個這個航廈電吧的部分你找了很多領域當然機場公司一定要電力的有但是你主要以軌道工程捷運工程其實這個領域不太是有一些不太一樣我真的是希望你們建議啊那你不能干預嘛你建議啊你們下次是不是再對於航廈還是電吧哦自駕電吧這種概念啊\n778078\t804164\t能不能要去找一下真正在這個領域我覺得他比較專業的人一定有 為什麼呢因為交通部跟我們這個車安中心在去年度就已經有研擬出自駕公車實驗運行安全的指引的草案我相信這個東西一定有專家在後面幫交通部跟車安中心把這個研究出來\n804864\t824842\t所以我是希望真的能夠在這麼多名單中間當然有軌道的要自駕電巴這些的實務的系統的專家學者我們真的希望也你這邊能不能建議那個淘汰公司也能夠一併納入讓能夠未來能夠真正的專業投入在審查過程中\n826519\t848698\t建立淘擠公司就評審委員審查委員的組成啊那務必能夠多元那包括剛才委員所關注的問題我們會跟淘擠公司來建議還有什麼密集要講的啊委員報告就是說那個如果淘擠公司他組成這個評審委員他要先公開廠商是可以建議當然我們也可以給他一些建議啦\n849878\t858263\t那建議啦你這個自駕電吧已經出了一次問題了還是自駕電吧這一系列找幾個專家我覺得這樣比較好好謝謝好謝謝我們魯明哲\n","txt":"好謝謝主席有請工程會陳主委好陳主委委員長陳主委這個再跟你確認一下理性確認一下我們那個金子獎的問題啊那個你們是主計還是會計啊這個金子獎在公共工程的一個管理業務嘛這個\n公共工程管理業務的項下裡面的一個內容裡面可能有十幾二十個五十個內容總共編入多少我來跟委員報告我目前被刪除的一個煤氣費用220萬是只針對公共工程在查核的時候做記錄然後辦理金職獎\n這項業務220萬可能被誤殺了啦就是說我們不是做其他媒體宣傳只是做金職獎這件事情而已220萬完全刪除所以這樣子我們沒辦法去去做做宣傳做廣告或替得獎的人做一些紀錄所以這個金職獎因為這220萬會會失去很多啦你那3589萬刪除多少來另外不是\n凍結的是凍結50%我知道嘛3589萬你們是在這個公共工程管理業務這個科目我們先講科目啊會計的科目沒有一個科目叫做金子獎啦他的科目就是公共工程管理業務這一個科目裡面你們要做很多事其中有一些是金子獎請問一下3589萬刪除多少\n山洞多少沒關係有山有洞我知道嘛3589萬山竹多少因為金職獎在金職獎在工程會的在工程公管處的預算裡面所以公管處的預算裡面1517萬凍結一半的話就只剩下758萬啦那這個不是金職獎業務而已整個工程管理處相關的業務都需要這個錢所以我們金職獎需要1060萬\n1060萬如果說整個公管處凍結下來只剩下758萬可以用包括金職獎以及其他業務的話根本無法辦理金職獎好\n現在你親自講的一個部分因為本身你們的業務都包含在整個的一個科目裡面那本身科目的話當然有統三有三減有凍結這個部分我們都知道嘛那我們覺得因為你本身的一個大的一個科目下面如果向下本身如果剩下的部分你可以先去做處理的還是先去做前期的處理那比較稍微不及的其他的業務\n放在後面等解凍再來這是我給你的建議啦好不好看看能不能能夠達到這個讓這個事情也可以去做來我想這個我先要謝謝這個陳主委啊我看你這個到機場公司啊對於我們三航廈甚至我們三跑道未來一個發展你是做蠻多關注的我特別有注意到\n那確實在今年過年的時候特別覺得恐怖啊要你知道出國回國那個一航廈二航廈這個人人潮擠爆了他吞吐量確實按照疫情之前當時覺得未來\n出入境的人越來越多的時候我們現在兩個行下吞吐量是根本不夠的服務品質是絕對不夠的現在已經看到是非常非常嚴重那三行下當時預計的吞吐量就覺得非常非常重要我們看到下表2019年當年出入境跟過境的人數有4869萬你看到最後\n2024就是去年快要差不多九成多了總共也這個使用到機場的也有4492萬那我這樣請問一下就第一個問題目前T3航廈\n它的一個進度56.33因為我們希望是要完工的整個進度你是定在明年度的11月可是我們看到很多的一個配合的一個相關的一些工程當然有一些要硬體完成它可以進場的那當然最後一個包括PMS這個部分你對於整體能夠如期如質完工的目前就你深入的了解你來做一個說明好嗎\n謝謝委員的關心 他幾個部分有些停機坪已經可以完工先提供使用 停機坪那接下來就是被登記廊廳 已慢了一些所以我們要求今年9月15一定要完成9月15一定要馬上能夠\n使用了那接下來就是那個主體跟藍燈機廊廳所以整個希望在116年能夠完工那目前呢陶磯公司也全力在推進啦北燈機廊廳大概在中休了在中休休未所以希望今年9月15能夠完成啟用但目前的進度是這樣整個通通完成可能要等到116年\n好那因為這幾天我也跟機場公司有了解北登基廊廳預計剛剛我去年問你的時候原本的目標是在今年希望年中啊能夠弄好那你剛才講慢了一點那但是我是覺得要有把握一點好不好就是說因為旅客這麼多要進去相關的一些設施要請淘機公司淘機公司在工程真的要弄好不要弄一個\n辦成品這樣 一進去人家用罵得亂七八糟的這個部分我是希望以工程會立場要特別關注提醒淘汰公司好不好\n那我接下來要講的最後一個就PMS那當然這個也要這個因為你的介入不是介入去關注跟淘擠公司最後的一個想法他是業主因為我們看到三航廈PMS這樣的一個航廈電巴的一個情況那我們之前談過我們就不說了就是在得標在112年12月25號得標之後\n一路來的新歷路程到了去年解約那現在呢最新的3月11號又開始辦招標說明會了方式還是航廈電吧那個你指導他們啦因為工程類採購法的一個部分啦過去一定有些問題所以我有兩個問題第一個\n解約了我看誰向誰要錢還不知道那個部分多少錢我這邊不預判那現在再招標呢比原本的招標17億多變18億可能因為物價調整那你看看你覺得這一次有沒有發生這樣的一個事情有沒有人要人應該要負責\n或說警告處分不是說下台啦都沒有人要負責就是說很虛幻的一件事就是哇 這個大問題然後發覺沒有能力我們找到\n沒有能力的人然後又要解約然後可能還要吵來吵去誰賠誰錢還不知道然後又重新加了一億再招標這中間到底你們在檢討的過程沒有人要負責嗎跟委員報告的確委員的見解相當正確是因為一個採購的\n方式導致整個國家重大的工程延宕所以我們會請交通部就前期的這個採購啊那麼他的檢討報告送到工程會或者是我們相關會來瞭解會請交通部來完成這個調查報告好我希望趕快做那再來是\n我在去年9月30號特別有跟你討論這些事情也不光是我好幾位委員都在討論當時發生的這個問題航廈電吧發生的一些問題那我們討論到其中有一點你給我回答我說奇怪為什麼有這麼多能力可能不太夠的我們那時候講說要渣男廠商我不知道正不正確為什麼他可以一直在這邊\n活得很厲害什麼都可以飆到讓後面都做不成那時候你也說我們希望能夠建置這些廠商的履歷讓優秀廠商跟不好的廠商大家一看就清楚畢竟發報單位從中央政府到地方政府到鄉鎮事工所\n你知道嗎大家我哪知道哪家廠商是好還是壞所以這時候有相關的有沒有統一的一個系統建置你說這個履歷其實我蠻期待的但是好像現在只能對工程類這些服務的又完全沒辦法是什麼情況要不要說明一下請處長來跟你說明另外我補充一點就是\n我們將來這個有不管是承包商或者其他的分包商我們將來這個在101條款的時候啊那麼也會重新修正就能夠希望一方面符合比例原則一方面也關注的到有些廠商這個得標A然後換個名字又去標B那這個我們會透過法制來防度這樣的現象那至於廠商的部分我想請處長來說明\n目前我們的履歷是針對施工廠商那施工廠商假設有牽涉到他建造或設計的部分我們會在履歷裡面去呈現那不過單獨針對勞務類的設計的或是設計類的技術性的公司我們現在沒有去把他納進來這個部分假設要全面去管理我們系統我們可以去做擴充以上\n不過我覺得還是要思考啦因為畢竟一個工程或者說一個先進的一個設施能不能做成功你知道嗎每一顆螺絲如果是不行都是最後沒辦法成功啦所以我覺得像舉個例子像李立李立\n他因為這次我看到我問的淘汰公司你們又上網了又重新了那到底有什麼在標案中間有什麼精進的一個條件嗎他最主要裡面寫的必須要有相當經驗或實績者我覺得這很好還刮乎國外業績均可記錄啦可是我蠻害怕的我就想這個是處長嗎處長你來回答一下好不好就是如果李莉再來投標再來聯合投標可不可以啊\n我跟委員報我判斷履歷之前所謂的時機只是一個測試階段他並沒有上路的時機所以這個時機的認定要請台積公司務必慎重\n好啦 我直接說啦 我不要講說光是李立啦像類似這樣的公司甚至在國防領域 聽過很多很奇怪的但是就李立來講 他最早進入台灣能夠得標包括鐵道局或者幾個地方政府的自駕車最主要來源他都說他是美國佛羅里達州傑克遜威爾士自駕\n這個系統因為哇那個弄得很大所以這個履歷到時候還在台灣還得獎經濟部還要頒他頒獎所以我在講說這個部分我覺得關卡還是蠻重要的誰來把關最後一個建議因為在上次的評審委員在挑選的過程中我們發覺其實每一個領域差一點還差蠻多的但是每一個領域可能都有都會的地方所以在這中間\n這個這個航廈電吧的部分你找了很多領域當然機場公司一定要電力的有但是你主要以軌道工程捷運工程其實這個領域不太是有一些不太一樣我真的是希望你們建議啊那你不能干預嘛你建議啊你們下次是不是再對於航廈還是電吧哦自駕電吧這種概念啊\n能不能要去找一下真正在這個領域我覺得他比較專業的人一定有 為什麼呢因為交通部跟我們這個車安中心在去年度就已經有研擬出自駕公車實驗運行安全的指引的草案我相信這個東西一定有專家在後面幫交通部跟車安中心把這個研究出來\n所以我是希望真的能夠在這麼多名單中間當然有軌道的要自駕電巴這些的實務的系統的專家學者我們真的希望也你這邊能不能建議那個淘汰公司也能夠一併納入讓能夠未來能夠真正的專業投入在審查過程中\n建立淘擠公司就評審委員審查委員的組成啊那務必能夠多元那包括剛才委員所關注的問題我們會跟淘擠公司來建議還有什麼密集要講的啊委員報告就是說那個如果淘擠公司他組成這個評審委員他要先公開廠商是可以建議當然我們也可以給他一些建議啦\n那建議啦你這個自駕電吧已經出了一次問題了還是自駕電吧這一系列找幾個專家我覺得這樣比較好好謝謝好謝謝我們魯明哲\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:16.820 --> 00:40.065\n好謝謝主席有請工程會陳主委好陳主委委員長陳主委這個再跟你確認一下理性確認一下我們那個金子獎的問題啊那個你們是主計還是會計啊這個金子獎在公共工程的一個管理業務嘛這個\n\n00:45.218 --> 01:02.532\n公共工程管理業務的項下裡面的一個內容裡面可能有十幾二十個五十個內容總共編入多少我來跟委員報告我目前被刪除的一個煤氣費用220萬是只針對公共工程在查核的時候做記錄然後辦理金職獎\n\n01:05.195 --> 01:21.251\n這項業務220萬可能被誤殺了啦就是說我們不是做其他媒體宣傳只是做金職獎這件事情而已220萬完全刪除所以這樣子我們沒辦法去去做做宣傳做廣告或替得獎的人做一些紀錄所以這個金職獎因為這220萬會會失去很多啦你那3589萬刪除多少來另外不是\n\n01:27.497 --> 01:48.187\n凍結的是凍結50%我知道嘛3589萬你們是在這個公共工程管理業務這個科目我們先講科目啊會計的科目沒有一個科目叫做金子獎啦他的科目就是公共工程管理業務這一個科目裡面你們要做很多事其中有一些是金子獎請問一下3589萬刪除多少\n\n01:54.924 --> 02:21.306\n山洞多少沒關係有山有洞我知道嘛3589萬山竹多少因為金職獎在金職獎在工程會的在工程公管處的預算裡面所以公管處的預算裡面1517萬凍結一半的話就只剩下758萬啦那這個不是金職獎業務而已整個工程管理處相關的業務都需要這個錢所以我們金職獎需要1060萬\n\n02:23.948 --> 02:32.660\n1060萬如果說整個公管處凍結下來只剩下758萬可以用包括金職獎以及其他業務的話根本無法辦理金職獎好\n\n02:34.998 --> 02:59.073\n現在你親自講的一個部分因為本身你們的業務都包含在整個的一個科目裡面那本身科目的話當然有統三有三減有凍結這個部分我們都知道嘛那我們覺得因為你本身的一個大的一個科目下面如果向下本身如果剩下的部分你可以先去做處理的還是先去做前期的處理那比較稍微不及的其他的業務\n\n03:00.094 --> 03:25.324\n放在後面等解凍再來這是我給你的建議啦好不好看看能不能能夠達到這個讓這個事情也可以去做來我想這個我先要謝謝這個陳主委啊我看你這個到機場公司啊對於我們三航廈甚至我們三跑道未來一個發展你是做蠻多關注的我特別有注意到\n\n03:26.204 --> 03:39.461\n那確實在今年過年的時候特別覺得恐怖啊要你知道出國回國那個一航廈二航廈這個人人潮擠爆了他吞吐量確實按照疫情之前當時覺得未來\n\n03:42.481 --> 04:04.288\n出入境的人越來越多的時候我們現在兩個行下吞吐量是根本不夠的服務品質是絕對不夠的現在已經看到是非常非常嚴重那三行下當時預計的吞吐量就覺得非常非常重要我們看到下表2019年當年出入境跟過境的人數有4869萬你看到最後\n\n04:09.645 --> 04:20.137\n2024就是去年快要差不多九成多了總共也這個使用到機場的也有4492萬那我這樣請問一下就第一個問題目前T3航廈\n\n04:27.301 --> 04:56.005\n它的一個進度56.33因為我們希望是要完工的整個進度你是定在明年度的11月可是我們看到很多的一個配合的一個相關的一些工程當然有一些要硬體完成它可以進場的那當然最後一個包括PMS這個部分你對於整體能夠如期如質完工的目前就你深入的了解你來做一個說明好嗎\n\n04:58.223 --> 05:15.785\n謝謝委員的關心他幾個部分有些停機坪已經可以完工先提供使用停機坪那接下來就是被登記廊廳已慢了一些所以我們要求今年9月15一定要完成9月15一定要馬上能夠\n\n05:16.966 --> 05:39.631\n使用了那接下來就是那個主體跟藍燈機廊廳所以整個希望在116年能夠完工那目前呢陶磯公司也全力在推進啦北燈機廊廳大概在中休了在中休休未所以希望今年9月15能夠完成啟用但目前的進度是這樣整個通通完成可能要等到116年\n\n05:41.411 --> 06:07.813\n好那因為這幾天我也跟機場公司有了解北登基廊廳預計剛剛我去年問你的時候原本的目標是在今年希望年中啊能夠弄好那你剛才講慢了一點那但是我是覺得要有把握一點好不好就是說因為旅客這麼多要進去相關的一些設施要請淘機公司淘機公司在工程真的要弄好不要弄一個\n\n06:09.263 --> 06:17.540\n辦成品這樣一進去人家用罵得亂七八糟的這個部分我是希望以工程會立場要特別關注提醒淘汰公司好不好\n\n06:19.707 --> 06:44.796\n那我接下來要講的最後一個就PMS那當然這個也要這個因為你的介入不是介入去關注跟淘擠公司最後的一個想法他是業主因為我們看到三航廈PMS這樣的一個航廈電巴的一個情況那我們之前談過我們就不說了就是在得標在112年12月25號得標之後\n\n06:48.331 --> 07:09.723\n一路來的新歷路程到了去年解約那現在呢最新的3月11號又開始辦招標說明會了方式還是航廈電吧那個你指導他們啦因為工程類採購法的一個部分啦過去一定有些問題所以我有兩個問題第一個\n\n07:12.950 --> 07:34.098\n解約了我看誰向誰要錢還不知道那個部分多少錢我這邊不預判那現在再招標呢比原本的招標17億多變18億可能因為物價調整那你看看你覺得這一次有沒有發生這樣的一個事情有沒有人要人應該要負責\n\n07:35.959 --> 07:46.546\n或說警告處分不是說下台啦都沒有人要負責就是說很虛幻的一件事就是哇這個大問題然後發覺沒有能力我們找到\n\n07:47.560 --> 08:07.218\n沒有能力的人然後又要解約然後可能還要吵來吵去誰賠誰錢還不知道然後又重新加了一億再招標這中間到底你們在檢討的過程沒有人要負責嗎跟委員報告的確委員的見解相當正確是因為一個採購的\n\n08:10.060 --> 08:34.986\n方式導致整個國家重大的工程延宕所以我們會請交通部就前期的這個採購啊那麼他的檢討報告送到工程會或者是我們相關會來瞭解會請交通部來完成這個調查報告好我希望趕快做那再來是\n\n08:37.938 --> 08:48.224\n我在去年9月30號特別有跟你討論這些事情也不光是我好幾位委員都在討論當時發生的這個問題航廈電吧發生的一些問題那我們討論到其中有一點你給我回答我說奇怪為什麼有這麼多能力可能不太夠的我們那時候講說要渣男廠商我不知道正不正確為什麼他可以一直在這邊\n\n09:02.032 --> 09:19.254\n活得很厲害什麼都可以飆到讓後面都做不成那時候你也說我們希望能夠建置這些廠商的履歷讓優秀廠商跟不好的廠商大家一看就清楚畢竟發報單位從中央政府到地方政府到鄉鎮事工所\n\n09:19.935 --> 09:36.242\n你知道嗎大家我哪知道哪家廠商是好還是壞所以這時候有相關的有沒有統一的一個系統建置你說這個履歷其實我蠻期待的但是好像現在只能對工程類這些服務的又完全沒辦法是什麼情況要不要說明一下請處長來跟你說明另外我補充一點就是\n\n09:42.253 --> 10:08.506\n我們將來這個有不管是承包商或者其他的分包商我們將來這個在101條款的時候啊那麼也會重新修正就能夠希望一方面符合比例原則一方面也關注的到有些廠商這個得標A然後換個名字又去標B那這個我們會透過法制來防度這樣的現象那至於廠商的部分我想請處長來說明\n\n10:10.427 --> 10:33.681\n目前我們的履歷是針對施工廠商那施工廠商假設有牽涉到他建造或設計的部分我們會在履歷裡面去呈現那不過單獨針對勞務類的設計的或是設計類的技術性的公司我們現在沒有去把他納進來這個部分假設要全面去管理我們系統我們可以去做擴充以上\n\n10:34.161 --> 10:49.492\n不過我覺得還是要思考啦因為畢竟一個工程或者說一個先進的一個設施能不能做成功你知道嗎每一顆螺絲如果是不行都是最後沒辦法成功啦所以我覺得像舉個例子像李立李立\n\n10:50.313 --> 11:20.016\n他因為這次我看到我問的淘汰公司你們又上網了又重新了那到底有什麼在標案中間有什麼精進的一個條件嗎他最主要裡面寫的必須要有相當經驗或實績者我覺得這很好還刮乎國外業績均可記錄啦可是我蠻害怕的我就想這個是處長嗎處長你來回答一下好不好就是如果李莉再來投標再來聯合投標可不可以啊\n\n11:20.877 --> 11:26.562\n我跟委員報我判斷履歷之前所謂的時機只是一個測試階段他並沒有上路的時機所以這個時機的認定要請台積公司務必慎重\n\n11:40.472 --> 12:05.691\n好啦我直接說啦我不要講說光是李立啦像類似這樣的公司甚至在國防領域聽過很多很奇怪的但是就李立來講他最早進入台灣能夠得標包括鐵道局或者幾個地方政府的自駕車最主要來源他都說他是美國佛羅里達州傑克遜威爾士自駕\n\n12:07.234 --> 12:34.775\n這個系統因為哇那個弄得很大所以這個履歷到時候還在台灣還得獎經濟部還要頒他頒獎所以我在講說這個部分我覺得關卡還是蠻重要的誰來把關最後一個建議因為在上次的評審委員在挑選的過程中我們發覺其實每一個領域差一點還差蠻多的但是每一個領域可能都有都會的地方所以在這中間\n\n12:36.917 --> 12:57.417\n這個這個航廈電吧的部分你找了很多領域當然機場公司一定要電力的有但是你主要以軌道工程捷運工程其實這個領域不太是有一些不太一樣我真的是希望你們建議啊那你不能干預嘛你建議啊你們下次是不是再對於航廈還是電吧哦自駕電吧這種概念啊\n\n12:58.078 --> 13:24.164\n能不能要去找一下真正在這個領域我覺得他比較專業的人一定有為什麼呢因為交通部跟我們這個車安中心在去年度就已經有研擬出自駕公車實驗運行安全的指引的草案我相信這個東西一定有專家在後面幫交通部跟車安中心把這個研究出來\n\n13:24.864 --> 13:44.842\n所以我是希望真的能夠在這麼多名單中間當然有軌道的要自駕電巴這些的實務的系統的專家學者我們真的希望也你這邊能不能建議那個淘汰公司也能夠一併納入讓能夠未來能夠真正的專業投入在審查過程中\n\n13:46.519 --> 14:08.698\n建立淘擠公司就評審委員審查委員的組成啊那務必能夠多元那包括剛才委員所關注的問題我們會跟淘擠公司來建議還有什麼密集要講的啊委員報告就是說那個如果淘擠公司他組成這個評審委員他要先公開廠商是可以建議當然我們也可以給他一些建議啦\n\n14:09.878 --> 14:18.263\n那建議啦你這個自駕電吧已經出了一次問題了還是自駕電吧這一系列找幾個專家我覺得這樣比較好好謝謝好謝謝我們魯明哲\n\n","segments":[{"start":16.82,"end":40.065,"text":"好謝謝主席有請工程會陳主委好陳主委委員長陳主委這個再跟你確認一下理性確認一下我們那個金子獎的問題啊那個你們是主計還是會計啊這個金子獎在公共工程的一個管理業務嘛這個"},{"start":45.218,"end":62.532,"text":"公共工程管理業務的項下裡面的一個內容裡面可能有十幾二十個五十個內容總共編入多少我來跟委員報告我目前被刪除的一個煤氣費用220萬是只針對公共工程在查核的時候做記錄然後辦理金職獎"},{"start":65.195,"end":81.251,"text":"這項業務220萬可能被誤殺了啦就是說我們不是做其他媒體宣傳只是做金職獎這件事情而已220萬完全刪除所以這樣子我們沒辦法去去做做宣傳做廣告或替得獎的人做一些紀錄所以這個金職獎因為這220萬會會失去很多啦你那3589萬刪除多少來另外不是"},{"start":87.497,"end":108.187,"text":"凍結的是凍結50%我知道嘛3589萬你們是在這個公共工程管理業務這個科目我們先講科目啊會計的科目沒有一個科目叫做金子獎啦他的科目就是公共工程管理業務這一個科目裡面你們要做很多事其中有一些是金子獎請問一下3589萬刪除多少"},{"start":114.924,"end":141.306,"text":"山洞多少沒關係有山有洞我知道嘛3589萬山竹多少因為金職獎在金職獎在工程會的在工程公管處的預算裡面所以公管處的預算裡面1517萬凍結一半的話就只剩下758萬啦那這個不是金職獎業務而已整個工程管理處相關的業務都需要這個錢所以我們金職獎需要1060萬"},{"start":143.948,"end":152.66,"text":"1060萬如果說整個公管處凍結下來只剩下758萬可以用包括金職獎以及其他業務的話根本無法辦理金職獎好"},{"start":154.998,"end":179.073,"text":"現在你親自講的一個部分因為本身你們的業務都包含在整個的一個科目裡面那本身科目的話當然有統三有三減有凍結這個部分我們都知道嘛那我們覺得因為你本身的一個大的一個科目下面如果向下本身如果剩下的部分你可以先去做處理的還是先去做前期的處理那比較稍微不及的其他的業務"},{"start":180.094,"end":205.324,"text":"放在後面等解凍再來這是我給你的建議啦好不好看看能不能能夠達到這個讓這個事情也可以去做來我想這個我先要謝謝這個陳主委啊我看你這個到機場公司啊對於我們三航廈甚至我們三跑道未來一個發展你是做蠻多關注的我特別有注意到"},{"start":206.204,"end":219.461,"text":"那確實在今年過年的時候特別覺得恐怖啊要你知道出國回國那個一航廈二航廈這個人人潮擠爆了他吞吐量確實按照疫情之前當時覺得未來"},{"start":222.481,"end":244.288,"text":"出入境的人越來越多的時候我們現在兩個行下吞吐量是根本不夠的服務品質是絕對不夠的現在已經看到是非常非常嚴重那三行下當時預計的吞吐量就覺得非常非常重要我們看到下表2019年當年出入境跟過境的人數有4869萬你看到最後"},{"start":249.645,"end":260.137,"text":"2024就是去年快要差不多九成多了總共也這個使用到機場的也有4492萬那我這樣請問一下就第一個問題目前T3航廈"},{"start":267.301,"end":296.005,"text":"它的一個進度56.33因為我們希望是要完工的整個進度你是定在明年度的11月可是我們看到很多的一個配合的一個相關的一些工程當然有一些要硬體完成它可以進場的那當然最後一個包括PMS這個部分你對於整體能夠如期如質完工的目前就你深入的了解你來做一個說明好嗎"},{"start":298.223,"end":315.785,"text":"謝謝委員的關心 他幾個部分有些停機坪已經可以完工先提供使用 停機坪那接下來就是被登記廊廳 已慢了一些所以我們要求今年9月15一定要完成9月15一定要馬上能夠"},{"start":316.966,"end":339.631,"text":"使用了那接下來就是那個主體跟藍燈機廊廳所以整個希望在116年能夠完工那目前呢陶磯公司也全力在推進啦北燈機廊廳大概在中休了在中休休未所以希望今年9月15能夠完成啟用但目前的進度是這樣整個通通完成可能要等到116年"},{"start":341.411,"end":367.813,"text":"好那因為這幾天我也跟機場公司有了解北登基廊廳預計剛剛我去年問你的時候原本的目標是在今年希望年中啊能夠弄好那你剛才講慢了一點那但是我是覺得要有把握一點好不好就是說因為旅客這麼多要進去相關的一些設施要請淘機公司淘機公司在工程真的要弄好不要弄一個"},{"start":369.263,"end":377.54,"text":"辦成品這樣 一進去人家用罵得亂七八糟的這個部分我是希望以工程會立場要特別關注提醒淘汰公司好不好"},{"start":379.707,"end":404.796,"text":"那我接下來要講的最後一個就PMS那當然這個也要這個因為你的介入不是介入去關注跟淘擠公司最後的一個想法他是業主因為我們看到三航廈PMS這樣的一個航廈電巴的一個情況那我們之前談過我們就不說了就是在得標在112年12月25號得標之後"},{"start":408.331,"end":429.723,"text":"一路來的新歷路程到了去年解約那現在呢最新的3月11號又開始辦招標說明會了方式還是航廈電吧那個你指導他們啦因為工程類採購法的一個部分啦過去一定有些問題所以我有兩個問題第一個"},{"start":432.95,"end":454.098,"text":"解約了我看誰向誰要錢還不知道那個部分多少錢我這邊不預判那現在再招標呢比原本的招標17億多變18億可能因為物價調整那你看看你覺得這一次有沒有發生這樣的一個事情有沒有人要人應該要負責"},{"start":455.959,"end":466.546,"text":"或說警告處分不是說下台啦都沒有人要負責就是說很虛幻的一件事就是哇 這個大問題然後發覺沒有能力我們找到"},{"start":467.56,"end":487.218,"text":"沒有能力的人然後又要解約然後可能還要吵來吵去誰賠誰錢還不知道然後又重新加了一億再招標這中間到底你們在檢討的過程沒有人要負責嗎跟委員報告的確委員的見解相當正確是因為一個採購的"},{"start":490.06,"end":514.986,"text":"方式導致整個國家重大的工程延宕所以我們會請交通部就前期的這個採購啊那麼他的檢討報告送到工程會或者是我們相關會來瞭解會請交通部來完成這個調查報告好我希望趕快做那再來是"},{"start":517.938,"end":528.224,"text":"我在去年9月30號特別有跟你討論這些事情也不光是我好幾位委員都在討論當時發生的這個問題航廈電吧發生的一些問題那我們討論到其中有一點你給我回答我說奇怪為什麼有這麼多能力可能不太夠的我們那時候講說要渣男廠商我不知道正不正確為什麼他可以一直在這邊"},{"start":542.032,"end":559.254,"text":"活得很厲害什麼都可以飆到讓後面都做不成那時候你也說我們希望能夠建置這些廠商的履歷讓優秀廠商跟不好的廠商大家一看就清楚畢竟發報單位從中央政府到地方政府到鄉鎮事工所"},{"start":559.935,"end":576.242,"text":"你知道嗎大家我哪知道哪家廠商是好還是壞所以這時候有相關的有沒有統一的一個系統建置你說這個履歷其實我蠻期待的但是好像現在只能對工程類這些服務的又完全沒辦法是什麼情況要不要說明一下請處長來跟你說明另外我補充一點就是"},{"start":582.253,"end":608.506,"text":"我們將來這個有不管是承包商或者其他的分包商我們將來這個在101條款的時候啊那麼也會重新修正就能夠希望一方面符合比例原則一方面也關注的到有些廠商這個得標A然後換個名字又去標B那這個我們會透過法制來防度這樣的現象那至於廠商的部分我想請處長來說明"},{"start":610.427,"end":633.681,"text":"目前我們的履歷是針對施工廠商那施工廠商假設有牽涉到他建造或設計的部分我們會在履歷裡面去呈現那不過單獨針對勞務類的設計的或是設計類的技術性的公司我們現在沒有去把他納進來這個部分假設要全面去管理我們系統我們可以去做擴充以上"},{"start":634.161,"end":649.492,"text":"不過我覺得還是要思考啦因為畢竟一個工程或者說一個先進的一個設施能不能做成功你知道嗎每一顆螺絲如果是不行都是最後沒辦法成功啦所以我覺得像舉個例子像李立李立"},{"start":650.313,"end":680.016,"text":"他因為這次我看到我問的淘汰公司你們又上網了又重新了那到底有什麼在標案中間有什麼精進的一個條件嗎他最主要裡面寫的必須要有相當經驗或實績者我覺得這很好還刮乎國外業績均可記錄啦可是我蠻害怕的我就想這個是處長嗎處長你來回答一下好不好就是如果李莉再來投標再來聯合投標可不可以啊"},{"start":680.877,"end":686.562,"text":"我跟委員報我判斷履歷之前所謂的時機只是一個測試階段他並沒有上路的時機所以這個時機的認定要請台積公司務必慎重"},{"start":700.472,"end":725.691,"text":"好啦 我直接說啦 我不要講說光是李立啦像類似這樣的公司甚至在國防領域 聽過很多很奇怪的但是就李立來講 他最早進入台灣能夠得標包括鐵道局或者幾個地方政府的自駕車最主要來源他都說他是美國佛羅里達州傑克遜威爾士自駕"},{"start":727.234,"end":754.775,"text":"這個系統因為哇那個弄得很大所以這個履歷到時候還在台灣還得獎經濟部還要頒他頒獎所以我在講說這個部分我覺得關卡還是蠻重要的誰來把關最後一個建議因為在上次的評審委員在挑選的過程中我們發覺其實每一個領域差一點還差蠻多的但是每一個領域可能都有都會的地方所以在這中間"},{"start":756.917,"end":777.417,"text":"這個這個航廈電吧的部分你找了很多領域當然機場公司一定要電力的有但是你主要以軌道工程捷運工程其實這個領域不太是有一些不太一樣我真的是希望你們建議啊那你不能干預嘛你建議啊你們下次是不是再對於航廈還是電吧哦自駕電吧這種概念啊"},{"start":778.078,"end":804.164,"text":"能不能要去找一下真正在這個領域我覺得他比較專業的人一定有 為什麼呢因為交通部跟我們這個車安中心在去年度就已經有研擬出自駕公車實驗運行安全的指引的草案我相信這個東西一定有專家在後面幫交通部跟車安中心把這個研究出來"},{"start":804.864,"end":824.842,"text":"所以我是希望真的能夠在這麼多名單中間當然有軌道的要自駕電巴這些的實務的系統的專家學者我們真的希望也你這邊能不能建議那個淘汰公司也能夠一併納入讓能夠未來能夠真正的專業投入在審查過程中"},{"start":826.519,"end":848.698,"text":"建立淘擠公司就評審委員審查委員的組成啊那務必能夠多元那包括剛才委員所關注的問題我們會跟淘擠公司來建議還有什麼密集要講的啊委員報告就是說那個如果淘擠公司他組成這個評審委員他要先公開廠商是可以建議當然我們也可以給他一些建議啦"},{"start":849.878,"end":858.263,"text":"那建議啦你這個自駕電吧已經出了一次問題了還是自駕電吧這一系列找幾個專家我覺得這樣比較好好謝謝好謝謝我們魯明哲"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":347,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（10時13分）謝謝主席，有請工程會陳主委。"],["主席：好，陳主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員早。"],["魯委員明哲：陳主委，再跟你確認一下那個金質獎的問題，你們是主計還是會計？金質獎屬於公共工程管理業務項下的一個內容，其中可能有十幾、二十個、五十個內容，請問總共編了多少？"],["陳主任委員金德：跟委員報告，目前被刪除的媒宣費用220萬是只針對公共工程在查核的時候做紀錄，然後辦理金質獎，這項業務220萬可能被誤殺了，就是我們不是做其他媒體宣傳，只是做金質獎這件事情而已，220萬完全刪除，這樣子我們沒辦法去做宣傳、廣告或替得獎的人做一些紀錄，所以金質獎因為這220萬被刪會失色很多。"],["魯委員明哲：你那3,589萬刪除多少？"],["陳主任委員金德：不是，凍結的是凍結50%。"],["魯委員明哲：我知道嘛，3,589萬是在公共工程管理業務項下的科目，我們先講科目，會計的科目沒有一個科目叫做金質獎，它的科目就是公共工程管理業務，在這一個科目裡面你們要做很多事，其中有一項是金質獎，請問一下3,589萬刪除多少？刪凍多少？沒關係，我知道有刪有凍，3,589萬刪除多少？凍結多少？"],["陳主任委員金德：因為金質獎在工程會工管處的預算裡面，所以工管處的預算1,517萬凍結一半的話，就只剩下758萬，這個不是金質獎的業務而已，整個工程管理處相關的業務都需要這個錢，而金質獎需要1,060萬，如果整個工管處凍結下來，只剩下758萬可以用，包括金質獎以及其他業務的話，根本無法辦理金質獎。"],["魯委員明哲：有關金質獎的部分，因為你們的業務都包含在整個科目裡面，科目本身當然有統刪、有刪減、有凍結，我們都知道，但我們覺得一個大的科目下面，如果項下本身剩下的部分，你可以先去處理的，我建議你先去做前期的處理，比較不急的其他業務放在後面，等解凍再來。這是我給你的建議，好不好？看看能不能達到讓這個事情可以去做？","我先要謝謝陳主委，我看你到機場公司，對於三航廈，甚至三跑道未來的發展，你滿多關注的，我有特別注意到。確實在今年過年的時候特別覺得恐怖，你知道一航廈、二航廈被出國、回國的人潮擠爆了，當未來出入境的人越來越多，兩個航廈的吞吐量根本不夠，服務品質也絕對不夠，現在已經看到是非常、非常嚴重。當時預計三航廈的吞吐量就覺得非常重要，我們看到下表，2019年當年出入境跟過境的人數有4,869萬，你看到最後，2024年就是去年，快要差不多九成多了，使用到機場的總共有4,492萬。請問第一個問題，目前T3航廈的進度56.33%，因為整個完工的進度你是訂在明年度11月，可是我們看到很多配合的相關工程，當然有一些要硬體完成才可以進場，最後一個包括PMS的部分。對於整體是否能夠如期如質完工，目前就你深入了解來說明，好嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：謝謝委員關心。這有幾個部分，有些停機坪已經可以完工，先提供使用，接下來就是北登機廊廳也慢了一些，所以我們要求今年9月15日一定要完成，即9月15日一定要馬上能夠使用。接下來就是主體跟南登機廊廳，整個希望在116年能夠完工，目前桃機公司也全力在推進。北登機廊廳大概在裝修收尾了，希望今年9月15日能夠完成啟用，目前的進度大概是這樣，整個通通完成可能要等到116年。"],["魯委員明哲：這幾天我也跟機場公司了解，我去年問你的時候，原本的目標是希望今年年中北登機廊廳能夠弄好，你剛才講慢了一點，但我覺得要有把握一點，好不好？因為旅客這麼多要進去，相關設施要請桃機公司真的要把工程弄好，不要弄一個半成品，給人家一進去用卻罵得亂七八糟。以工程會的立場，我希望要特別關注這個部分，提醒桃機公司，好不好？","我接下來要講最後一個，就是PMS，當然這個因為你的關注，跟桃機公司最後的一個想法，他是業主。因為我們看到三航廈PMS航廈電巴的情況，我們之前談過就不說了，就是在112年12月25號得標之後一路來的心路歷程，到了去年解約，現在、最新的是3月11號又開始辦招標說明會，方式還是航廈電巴。請你指導他們，因為工程類採購法的部分過去一定有一些問題，所以我有兩個問題，第一個、解約了，我看誰向誰要錢還不知道，那個部分多少錢，我不預判，現在再招標比原本的招標十七億多，變18億，可能是因為物價調整。你覺得這一次發生這樣的事情，有沒有人應該要負責或警告、處分？不是說下臺，但都沒有人要負責，是很虛幻的一件事。這個是大問題，然後發覺沒有能力，我們找到沒有能力的人又解約，可能還要吵來吵去，誰賠誰錢還不知道，又重新加了1億再招標。這中間你們在檢討的過程沒有人要負責嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：的確，委員的見解相當正確，因為採購的方式導致國家重大工程延宕，所以我們會請交通部把前期採購的檢討報告送到工程會，或者是我們來了解相關的部分，請交通部完成這個調查報告。"],["魯委員明哲：我希望趕快做。再來，我在去年9月30號有特別跟你討論這件事情，不光是我，好幾位委員都在討論當時航廈電巴發生的一些問題。我們討論到其中有一點，你有回答我，但我說奇怪，為什麼有這麼多能力可能不太夠的？我們那時候說叫渣男廠商，我不知道正不正確。為什麼它可以一直在這邊活得很厲害，什麼都可以標得到，然後後面都做不成？那時候你也說，我們希望能夠建置這些廠商的履歷，讓優秀廠商跟不好的廠商，大家一看就清楚，畢竟發包單位從中央政府到地方政府到鄉鎮市公所，你知道嗎？大家哪知道哪一家廠商是好還是壞，所以有沒有建置統一的系統？你說這個履歷，其實我蠻期待的，但是好像現在只能對工程類，這些服務的又完全沒辦法，是什麼情況？要不要說明一下？"],["陳主任委員金德：請處長來跟你說明。另外，我補充一點，不管是承包商或者其他的分包商，我們將來也會重新修正一零一條款，希望一方面符合比例原則，一方面也關注得到有些廠商得標A，然後換個名字又去標B，我們會透過法制來防杜這樣的現象。至於廠商的部分，我請處長來說明。"],["陳處長春錦：委員好。目前我們的履歷是針對施工廠商，假設施工廠商有牽涉到監造或設計的部分，我們會在履歷裡面呈現。不過單獨針對勞務類的、設計的或是設計類的技術性公司，我們現在沒有納進來，這個部分假設要全面去管理，我們的系統可以擴充。"],["魯委員明哲：不過我覺得還是要思考，畢竟一個工程或者先進設施能不能做成功，你知道嗎？每一顆螺絲如果有不行的，最後都沒辦法成功。舉個例子，像理立，因為這次我問了桃機公司，他們又重新上網了，到底在標案中間有什麼精進的條件嗎？他們說最主要裡面寫，必須要有相當經驗或實績者，我覺得這很好，還括弧註明國外業績均可計入。可是我蠻害怕的，處長來回答一下，好不好？如果理立再來聯合投標，可不可以？再來一次！"],["陳處長春錦：基本上，當然是不行，就我觀點來看，它應該是不行。"],["魯委員明哲：不行的原因是什麼？"],["陳主任委員金德：我判斷理立之前所謂的實績只是測試階段，並沒有上路的實績，所以實績的認定要請桃機公司務必慎重。"],["魯委員明哲：好啦！我直接說，我不要講光是理立，類似這樣的公司，甚至在國防領域很多，我聽過很多很奇怪的，但就理立來講，它最早進入臺灣能夠得標，包括鐵道局或者幾個地方政府的自駕車，最主要它都說它的來源是美國佛羅里達州傑克遜維爾市自駕系統，哇！那個弄得很大，所以這個理立當時在臺灣還得獎，經濟部還給它頒獎，所以我講到這個部分，我覺得關卡還是滿重要的，誰來把關？","最後一個建議，因為上次在挑選評審委員的過程中，我們發覺其實每一個領域差一點還是差滿多的，但是每一個領域可能都有會的地方，所以在這中間有關航廈電巴的部分，你找了很多領域，當然機場公司一定要，電力的有，但是你主要以軌道工程、捷運工程，其實這個領域是有一些不太一樣，我真的是希望你們……建議啦，但不能干預嘛！建議你們下次對於航廈自駕電巴這種概念，能不能去找一下真正在這個領域我覺得是比較專業的人？一定有！為什麼呢？因為交通部跟我們車安中心在去年度就已經有研擬出自駕公車實驗運行安全指引草案，我相信這個東西一定有專家在後面幫交通部跟車安中心把這個研究出來，所以我是希望真的能夠在這麼多名單中間，當然有軌道的以及自駕電巴這些實務系統的專家學者，我們真的希望，你這邊能不能建議桃機公司也能夠一併納入，讓未來能夠有真正的專業投入在審查過程中？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們會建議桃機公司就評審委員、審查委員的組成，務必能夠多元，包括剛才委員所關注的問題，我們會跟桃機公司來建議。"],["魯委員明哲：好，還有什麼秘笈要講的？"],["陳副主任委員為祥：跟委員報告，如果桃機公司要組成評審委員，它要先公開，廠商還是可以建議，當然我們也可以給它一些建議啦！"],["魯委員明哲：給它建議啦，這個自駕電巴已經出了一次問題了，還是針對自駕電巴這一系列找幾個專家，我覺得這樣比較好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝我們魯明哲委員，以上特別跟各位……敬請各位官員上臺備詢或協詢的時候，請大家要尊重主席臺，因為主委上臺備詢，都是尊重主席臺，請問所有官員，這是立法院，不是菜市場，拜託主委領導之下，所有只要協詢或備詢都一定要尊重主席臺。","另外一個特別跟委員會報告，也就是陳素月委員、黃健豪委員兩位委員質詢完畢之後，我們就訂定休息10分鐘，特別來跟各位作宣告。","現在請陳素月委員來質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":222,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-3","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","何欣純","魯明哲","陳素月","黃健豪","林俊憲","蔡其昌","廖先翔","徐富癸","許智傑","邱若華","鍾佳濱","游顥","陳俊宇","張啓楷","陳冠廷"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142801_00014"}}}