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{\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 126.538, \"end\": 126.558, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 127.478, \"end\": 146.041, \"text\": \"對,因為我覺得對僑委會來講,這個國內外的旅費應該都很重要,包含剛剛講的其實國內你要去看這些學校啊等等之類的那我現在比較擔心的當然就是剛剛前面講的,其實本來有一些約已經簽了嘛,或者說你已經要做採購的動作那這個其實照理說本來在委員會大家互相討論一定是可以提出來的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 127.478, \"end\": 127.598, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 127.598, \"end\": 127.919, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 127.919, \"end\": 128.199, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"僑\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 128.199, \"end\": 129.501, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 129.501, \"end\": 129.661, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 129.661, \"end\": 129.761, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 144.7, \"end\": 144.72, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"互\", \"start\": 144.72, \"end\": 144.8, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 144.8, \"end\": 145.22, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 145.22, \"end\": 145.301, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 145.301, \"end\": 145.421, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 145.421, \"end\": 145.521, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 145.521, \"end\": 145.621, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 145.621, \"end\": 145.721, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 145.721, \"end\": 145.881, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 145.881, \"end\": 146.021, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 146.021, \"end\": 146.041, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 146.602, \"end\": 161.237, \"text\": \"但太多的這個統山還有一些凍結它是在委員會之後才提出來所以就會造成這樣的問題但我看到凍結的部分也有跟這一個這個海外的僑生是有關係的那我們也只能趕快盡快來安排這個解凍不然的話我看僑委會這樣很難運作\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 146.602, \"end\": 146.722, \"score\": 0.649}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 146.722, \"end\": 146.902, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 146.902, \"end\": 147.043, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 147.043, \"end\": 147.583, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"山\", \"start\": 147.583, \"end\": 148.144, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 148.144, \"end\": 148.264, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 148.264, \"end\": 148.344, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 148.344, \"end\": 148.804, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 148.804, \"end\": 148.945, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 148.945, \"end\": 149.065, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"在\", 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{\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 161.097, \"end\": 161.217, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 161.217, \"end\": 161.237, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 162.389, \"end\": 191.929, \"text\": \"我們如果這個解凍案沒有在今年五六月就完成的話那勢必會造成我們下一半年在執行上面對很大的挑戰那學生如果真的進來了那你該補助的沒有補助到位我們也會變成學校都會一直去跟委員陳情然後我們就會很困擾所以不是我們不想付這個錢而是因為解凍案還沒有通過現在這真的是麻煩的地方就是說剛剛聽到前面很多委員其實關心很多事項但這些事項都需要預算執行我覺得這是最困擾的地方\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 162.389, \"end\": 162.509, \"score\": 0.669}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 162.509, \"end\": 162.769, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 162.769, \"end\": 163.37, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 163.37, \"end\": 163.67, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 163.67, \"end\": 163.81, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 163.81, \"end\": 163.95, \"score\": 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00:00:31,947\n委員長早因為一開始我先想說畢竟這一整年要推動很多的業務還是跟預算有關我知道僑委會有一些大部分是統山的部分所影響但是也有一些個別的凍結目前來講統山的這些部分對僑委會未來的運作的影響大概是什麼\n\n3\n00:00:32,666 --> 00:00:47,970\n跟委員報告其實我們在1、2月的時候我們就已經面臨一個很尷尬的處境因為我們六大官網從1月1號就要開始重新營運的這個相關作為那事實上我們都在去年都已經開標了那開完標以後結果我們的預算被這個刪減了400多萬那我們已經開標到超過這個額數了所以當時我就有點\n\n4\n00:00:57,152 --> 00:01:01,096\n嚇到說不知道這樣子我今年要怎麼執行這個預算會有可能有差一兩百萬的這個缺口那所以這個確實是我們現在很大的一個困難那除此之外包括這個出國旅費還有業務費也是有同樣的影響\n\n5\n00:01:15,209 --> 00:01:37,345\n委員們都很關心我們在僑生的業務上如何去落實跟精進幫助學生在學習或者實習以及畢業之後的就業可是又把我們的國內旅費砍成這樣讓我們就沒有連要去查看這些學校的機率都要大幅下降人數也要縮減那這某個程度說起來是\n\n6\n00:01:38,486 --> 00:02:06,558\n變成讓我們的這個督察機制會減弱所以我們又不得留用的狀況之下我們現在是確實頭很痛這個都是很現實的狀況然後一般業務費是我們有些已經本來預計要給海外的這一個喬教中心或者是僱員做一定的這個設備的改善的結果因為這樣子不但沒有增加還又砍了10%所以這些也被迫今年可能都又要暫停了\n\n7\n00:02:07,478 --> 00:02:26,041\n對,因為我覺得對僑委會來講,這個國內外的旅費應該都很重要,包含剛剛講的其實國內你要去看這些學校啊等等之類的那我現在比較擔心的當然就是剛剛前面講的,其實本來有一些約已經簽了嘛,或者說你已經要做採購的動作那這個其實照理說本來在委員會大家互相討論一定是可以提出來的\n\n8\n00:02:26,602 --> 00:02:41,237\n但太多的這個統山還有一些凍結它是在委員會之後才提出來所以就會造成這樣的問題但我看到凍結的部分也有跟這一個這個海外的僑生是有關係的那我們也只能趕快盡快來安排這個解凍不然的話我看僑委會這樣很難運作\n\n9\n00:02:42,389 --> 00:03:11,929\n我們如果這個解凍案沒有在今年五六月就完成的話那勢必會造成我們下一半年在執行上面對很大的挑戰那學生如果真的進來了那你該補助的沒有補助到位我們也會變成學校都會一直去跟委員陳情然後我們就會很困擾所以不是我們不想付這個錢而是因為解凍案還沒有通過現在這真的是麻煩的地方就是說剛剛聽到前面很多委員其實關心很多事項但這些事項都需要預算執行我覺得這是最困擾的地方\n\n10\n00:03:12,569 --> 00:03:39,887\n那我想問一下因為剛剛這一個我記得是楚雲委員也有問所以我這個稍微快一點就是說因為賴總統在前陣子有這一個記者會他的談話裡面有這個17項措施他裡面有幾個措施看起來跟僑委會是有關的比如說這一個你跟有盟國家合作那有盟國家合作其實跟我們的僑民能不能夠生根能不能夠跟他們做一些遊說這是有關係的然後全球的佈局這跟他們的投資也有關係那最重要的我覺得是最後一個\n\n11\n00:03:40,667 --> 00:04:01,554\n就是我們對中國的這個世獨教育我看到這個的時候呢其實我就記得我們去年在質詢僑委會的時候就已經講過就是說怎麼對海外去宣導他們現在對中國的認識那這個呢其實呢回過頭來到國內其實僑委會這個部分是不是應該可以複製讓國內的學校也可以能夠再對我們的青年學子做這樣的一些這個宣導\n\n12\n00:04:03,263 --> 00:04:28,080\n是事實上強化學生年輕朋友的識讀能力我覺得這件事情很重要不單單只有在對國家認同或者是中國統戰的部分事實上因為全球的假訊息FakeNews等等的威脅也非常的嚴峻所以如何提高判斷能力識讀能力這件事情我覺得是我們公民教育裡面真的是刻不容緩的\n\n13\n00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,802\n那所以我們在平時除了對我們僑團做這些相關的課程研究以外我們也逐步會想辦法把它在教材的補充裡面也把某些例子融入進去希望能夠引起他們的討論那尤其是在比較民主自由的國家裡面這樣子的威脅挑戰是需要大家全部的年輕朋友都一起提升才有辦法\n\n14\n00:04:54,415 --> 00:05:00,657\n那我們也願意分享我們的經驗來國內所以國內的部分我們包括僑生進來我們現在的新生手冊當然都是跟他們權益比較相關的但未來如果有需求我們也會強化在這一部分來提供一些遇到假訊息錯假訊息要怎麼來處理跟面對的SOP作業事實上我們現在已經開辦了一個專線電話的專線是七語的\n\n15\n00:05:21,644 --> 00:05:39,546\n然後也有這個email的這個帳號是他們可以投書來呈現一些問題那一旦有我們就會馬上去把這個案例擴大去做宣討對因為我記得我們在去年的時候就有講過就是說我們在海外尤其像認知作戰等等之類的其實我還\n\n16\n00:05:40,166 --> 00:06:00,081\n還沒有進來之前就有跟僑委會討論過這一個課程那當然說第一個課程的設計是重要的那第二個就是網站我們那時候有提到說其實網站應該更多即時的更新讓這一個海外他們也可以去認知到說比如說中國在海外做什麼操作但是剛剛這樣聽起來光是海外網站的建置現在預算可能都會出現一些問題\n\n17\n00:06:00,822 --> 00:06:24,357\n是確實很有影響然後再來就是外交部因為畢竟外交部現在海外的這些宣導的費用現在是被砍成負的所以基本上是沒有辦法運作那就只能靠僑委會看能不能在這個總預算現在還沒有恢復之前能不能做一些補足因為畢竟跟外交部就像兩隻腳一樣如果僑委會這麼能夠雖然我知道僑委會現在也是很困難但是如果能夠協助的話對外交部應該會是一個很大的幫助\n\n18\n00:06:24,397 --> 00:06:32,500\n比較外交部的國傳司全部砍除變複數我們算相對的幸運但即便是這樣也是困難我們會在這個困難當中因為預算也積極很低所以我們六大官網我們還是會努力來經營想盡辦法用最精準的方式快速的方式來達到這個目標\n\n19\n00:06:46,925 --> 00:06:59,962\n對算是幸運啦不過我看他們當時可能也只是忘記砍而已所以我真的不知道為什麼會這個樣子但是很亂七八糟那再來就是這個統戰的部分因為之前我問過比較多我想問這一個台商這個我先跳過就是這個天下雜誌的報導剛剛其實有蠻多委員問到的\n\n20\n00:07:02,805 --> 00:07:22,582\n那我這個可能想請這個委員長再說一下就是說呢這個仲介目前來講它的確是個嚴重的問題嘛那目前我們能夠譬如說逮到它的這個機制是什麼是有人回報嗎還是我們主動查核呢等等之類是用什麼樣的機制還是說跟其他的部會合作因為對我們來講我們知道這是問題嘛但是要怎麼去揪到這個問題現在執行的狀況是什麼\n\n21\n00:07:26,850 --> 00:07:31,994\n跟委員說明在學生還沒有正式辦簽證進來以前事實上我們在海外的派駐點都有我們的僑秘書他們是會進行第一波的interview的所以他們會去抽查那抽查在問這些學生的基本問題的時候就可以找到一些症狀\n\n22\n00:07:45,765 --> 00:08:13,840\n就是說這一批整個是從哪一個系統進來的那從這裡面去跟他問多問幾個學生以後就會發現說他們學生有些他沒有特別的心防他會知道他會忠實交代他交了多少錢什麼什麼什麼那我們就會開始掌握那如果這一批全部是這樣的話我們就高度懷疑他就是仲介的處理那整批我們就不給他進來了事實上從去年開始我們就已經開始落實這樣的做法那因此呢當然這個凡有利可圖仲介必達\n\n23\n00:08:14,841 --> 00:08:35,980\n所以我們當然也得罪了一些仲介所以有些仲介已經想辦法說我的壞話說造謠的狀況非常非常的嚴峻投訴到總統府行政院外交部各種管道的都有不過還好我們國家有我們調查的機制這些最後都被歸檔而已因為都不是事實甚至有跑到我們的代表處去鬧事的\n\n24\n00:08:37,281 --> 00:08:57,217\n那進來以後事實上學生他們還是有一些人可能當時沒有抓到的因為我剛剛講的說我們有一個專線那這專線學生他可以隨時打電話來跟我們做通報或者是我們也會不定期去跟學校做抽查的時候會找學生來座談跟詢問所以一旦我們問到說你為什麼要特別轉校\n\n25\n00:08:58,338 --> 00:09:02,001\n我們就會掌握某些脈絡我們就開始會循線去調查所以過去兩年我們確實是已經把某些東西鎖死了但是不排除有很多新型態會持續的發生所以我們OS必須要保持一個很謹慎的態度來觀察這些這個\n\n26\n00:09:18,113 --> 00:09:39,331\n可能的違法情勢那不過現在護照跟居留證這件事情已經在去年11月12月被我們全部矯正了所以現在大概沒有沒有人敢把學生的這個個人文件扣留了因為時間的關係那我現在想說剛剛前面我就重整一下第一個是前面有一個面談的機制那就是說他就算來到台灣之後也會有專線所以呢也會有訪查\n\n27\n00:09:41,773 --> 00:09:54,824\n那但我相信這種事情可能有可能會越來越嚴重因為我們的移工啊等等之類講到說這方面的問題嗎一些仲介的問題所以如果在這個之後呢他在執法上或者在查緝上的量能不足的話有可能喬偉會還是要提早說\n\n28\n00:09:55,560 --> 00:10:18,652\n有而且我們也定期跟那個勞動部保持密切的聯繫有些相關的情勢我們也會通報給這個勞動部然後也會通報給教育部也會通報給外交部畢竟這個裡面還有包括他們簽證的問題還有他們一旦喪失這些學生的資格的時候我們發現那就立即通報移民署就會馬上遞解出境謝謝委員長謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n816\t3518\t好謝謝主席有請委員長有請委員長沈委員你好\n10337\t31947\t委員長早因為一開始我先想說畢竟這一整年要推動很多的業務還是跟預算有關我知道僑委會有一些大部分是統山的部分所影響但是也有一些個別的凍結目前來講統山的這些部分對僑委會未來的運作的影響大概是什麼\n32666\t47970\t跟委員報告其實我們在1、2月的時候我們就已經面臨一個很尷尬的處境因為我們六大官網從1月1號就要開始重新營運的這個相關作為那事實上我們都在去年都已經開標了那開完標以後結果我們的預算被這個刪減了400多萬那我們已經開標到超過這個額數了所以當時我就有點\n57152\t61096\t嚇到說不知道這樣子我今年要怎麼執行這個預算會有可能有差一兩百萬的這個缺口那所以這個確實是我們現在很大的一個困難那除此之外包括這個出國旅費還有業務費也是有同樣的影響\n75209\t97345\t委員們都很關心我們在僑生的業務上如何去落實跟精進幫助學生在學習或者實習以及畢業之後的就業可是又把我們的國內旅費砍成這樣讓我們就沒有連要去查看這些學校的機率都要大幅下降人數也要縮減那這某個程度說起來是\n98486\t126558\t變成讓我們的這個督察機制會減弱所以我們又不得留用的狀況之下我們現在是確實頭很痛這個都是很現實的狀況然後一般業務費是我們有些已經本來預計要給海外的這一個喬教中心或者是僱員做一定的這個設備的改善的結果因為這樣子不但沒有增加還又砍了10%所以這些也被迫今年可能都又要暫停了\n127478\t146041\t對,因為我覺得對僑委會來講,這個國內外的旅費應該都很重要,包含剛剛講的其實國內你要去看這些學校啊等等之類的那我現在比較擔心的當然就是剛剛前面講的,其實本來有一些約已經簽了嘛,或者說你已經要做採購的動作那這個其實照理說本來在委員會大家互相討論一定是可以提出來的\n146602\t161237\t但太多的這個統山還有一些凍結它是在委員會之後才提出來所以就會造成這樣的問題但我看到凍結的部分也有跟這一個這個海外的僑生是有關係的那我們也只能趕快盡快來安排這個解凍不然的話我看僑委會這樣很難運作\n162389\t191929\t我們如果這個解凍案沒有在今年五六月就完成的話那勢必會造成我們下一半年在執行上面對很大的挑戰那學生如果真的進來了那你該補助的沒有補助到位我們也會變成學校都會一直去跟委員陳情然後我們就會很困擾所以不是我們不想付這個錢而是因為解凍案還沒有通過現在這真的是麻煩的地方就是說剛剛聽到前面很多委員其實關心很多事項但這些事項都需要預算執行我覺得這是最困擾的地方\n192569\t219887\t那我想問一下因為剛剛這一個我記得是楚雲委員也有問所以我這個稍微快一點就是說因為賴總統在前陣子有這一個記者會他的談話裡面有這個17項措施他裡面有幾個措施看起來跟僑委會是有關的比如說這一個你跟有盟國家合作那有盟國家合作其實跟我們的僑民能不能夠生根能不能夠跟他們做一些遊說這是有關係的然後全球的佈局這跟他們的投資也有關係那最重要的我覺得是最後一個\n220667\t241554\t就是我們對中國的這個世獨教育我看到這個的時候呢其實我就記得我們去年在質詢僑委會的時候就已經講過就是說怎麼對海外去宣導他們現在對中國的認識那這個呢其實呢回過頭來到國內其實僑委會這個部分是不是應該可以複製讓國內的學校也可以能夠再對我們的青年學子做這樣的一些這個宣導\n243263\t268080\t是 事實上強化學生 年輕朋友的識讀能力我覺得這件事情很重要不單單只有在對國家認同或者是中國統戰的部分事實上因為全球的假訊息Fake News等等的威脅也非常的嚴峻所以如何提高判斷能力 識讀能力這件事情我覺得是我們公民教育裡面真的是刻不容緩的\n268880\t271802\t那所以我們在平時除了對我們僑團做這些相關的課程研究以外我們也逐步會想辦法把它在教材的補充裡面也把某些例子融入進去希望能夠引起他們的討論那尤其是在比較民主自由的國家裡面這樣子的威脅挑戰是需要大家全部的年輕朋友都一起提升才有辦法\n294415\t300657\t那我們也願意分享我們的經驗來國內所以國內的部分我們包括僑生進來我們現在的新生手冊當然都是跟他們權益比較相關的但未來如果有需求我們也會強化在這一部分來提供一些遇到假訊息 錯假訊息要怎麼來處理跟面對的SOP作業事實上我們現在已經開辦了一個專線電話的專線是七語的\n321644\t339546\t然後也有這個email的這個帳號是他們可以投書來呈現一些問題那一旦有我們就會馬上去把這個案例擴大去做宣討對因為我記得我們在去年的時候就有講過就是說我們在海外尤其像認知作戰等等之類的其實我還\n340166\t360081\t還沒有進來之前就有跟僑委會討論過這一個課程那當然說第一個課程的設計是重要的那第二個就是網站我們那時候有提到說其實網站應該更多即時的更新讓這一個海外他們也可以去認知到說比如說中國在海外做什麼操作但是剛剛這樣聽起來光是海外網站的建置現在預算可能都會出現一些問題\n360822\t384357\t是確實很有影響然後再來就是外交部因為畢竟外交部現在海外的這些宣導的費用現在是被砍成負的所以基本上是沒有辦法運作那就只能靠僑委會看能不能在這個總預算現在還沒有恢復之前能不能做一些補足因為畢竟跟外交部就像兩隻腳一樣如果僑委會這麼能夠雖然我知道僑委會現在也是很困難但是如果能夠協助的話對外交部應該會是一個很大的幫助\n384397\t392500\t比較外交部的國傳司全部砍除變複數我們算相對的幸運但即便是這樣也是困難我們會在這個困難當中因為預算也積極很低所以我們六大官網我們還是會努力來經營想盡辦法用最精準的方式快速的方式來達到這個目標\n406925\t419962\t對 算是幸運啦不過我看他們當時可能也只是忘記砍而已所以我真的不知道為什麼會這個樣子但是很亂七八糟那再來就是這個統戰的部分因為之前我問過比較多我想問這一個台商這個我先跳過就是這個天下雜誌的報導剛剛其實有蠻多委員問到的\n422805\t442582\t那我這個可能想請這個委員長再說一下就是說呢這個仲介目前來講它的確是個嚴重的問題嘛那目前我們能夠譬如說逮到它的這個機制是什麼是有人回報嗎還是我們主動查核呢等等之類是用什麼樣的機制還是說跟其他的部會合作因為對我們來講我們知道這是問題嘛但是要怎麼去揪到這個問題現在執行的狀況是什麼\n446850\t451994\t跟委員說明在學生還沒有正式辦簽證進來以前事實上我們在海外的派駐點都有我們的僑秘書他們是會進行第一波的interview的所以他們會去抽查那抽查在問這些學生的基本問題的時候就可以找到一些症狀\n465765\t493840\t就是說這一批整個是從哪一個系統進來的那從這裡面去跟他問多問幾個學生以後就會發現說他們學生有些他沒有特別的心防他會知道他會忠實交代他交了多少錢什麼什麼什麼那我們就會開始掌握那如果這一批全部是這樣的話我們就高度懷疑他就是仲介的處理那整批我們就不給他進來了事實上從去年開始我們就已經開始落實這樣的做法那因此呢當然這個凡有利可圖仲介必達\n494841\t515980\t所以我們當然也得罪了一些仲介所以有些仲介已經想辦法說我的壞話說造謠的狀況非常非常的嚴峻投訴到總統府行政院外交部各種管道的都有不過還好我們國家有我們調查的機制這些最後都被歸檔而已因為都不是事實甚至有跑到我們的代表處去鬧事的\n517281\t537217\t那進來以後事實上學生他們還是有一些人可能當時沒有抓到的因為我剛剛講的說我們有一個專線那這專線學生他可以隨時打電話來跟我們做通報或者是我們也會不定期去跟學校做抽查的時候會找學生來座談跟詢問所以一旦我們問到說你為什麼要特別轉校\n538338\t542001\t我們就會掌握某些脈絡我們就開始會循線去調查所以過去兩年我們確實是已經把某些東西鎖死了但是不排除有很多新型態會持續的發生所以我們OS必須要保持一個很謹慎的態度來觀察這些這個\n558113\t579331\t可能的違法情勢那不過現在護照跟居留證這件事情已經在去年11月12月被我們全部矯正了所以現在大概沒有沒有人敢把學生的這個個人文件扣留了因為時間的關係那我現在想說剛剛前面我就重整一下第一個是前面有一個面談的機制那就是說他就算來到台灣之後也會有專線所以呢也會有訪查\n581773\t594824\t那但我相信這種事情可能有可能會越來越嚴重因為我們的移工啊等等之類講到說這方面的問題嗎一些仲介的問題所以如果在這個之後呢他在執法上或者在查緝上的量能不足的話有可能喬偉會還是要提早說\n595560\t618652\t有 而且我們也定期跟那個勞動部保持密切的聯繫有些相關的情勢我們也會通報給這個勞動部然後也會通報給教育部也會通報給外交部畢竟這個裡面還有包括他們簽證的問題還有他們一旦喪失這些學生的資格的時候我們發現那就立即通報移民署就會馬上遞解出境謝謝委員長 謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席有請委員長有請委員長沈委員你好\n委員長早因為一開始我先想說畢竟這一整年要推動很多的業務還是跟預算有關我知道僑委會有一些大部分是統山的部分所影響但是也有一些個別的凍結目前來講統山的這些部分對僑委會未來的運作的影響大概是什麼\n跟委員報告其實我們在1、2月的時候我們就已經面臨一個很尷尬的處境因為我們六大官網從1月1號就要開始重新營運的這個相關作為那事實上我們都在去年都已經開標了那開完標以後結果我們的預算被這個刪減了400多萬那我們已經開標到超過這個額數了所以當時我就有點\n嚇到說不知道這樣子我今年要怎麼執行這個預算會有可能有差一兩百萬的這個缺口那所以這個確實是我們現在很大的一個困難那除此之外包括這個出國旅費還有業務費也是有同樣的影響\n委員們都很關心我們在僑生的業務上如何去落實跟精進幫助學生在學習或者實習以及畢業之後的就業可是又把我們的國內旅費砍成這樣讓我們就沒有連要去查看這些學校的機率都要大幅下降人數也要縮減那這某個程度說起來是\n變成讓我們的這個督察機制會減弱所以我們又不得留用的狀況之下我們現在是確實頭很痛這個都是很現實的狀況然後一般業務費是我們有些已經本來預計要給海外的這一個喬教中心或者是僱員做一定的這個設備的改善的結果因為這樣子不但沒有增加還又砍了10%所以這些也被迫今年可能都又要暫停了\n對,因為我覺得對僑委會來講,這個國內外的旅費應該都很重要,包含剛剛講的其實國內你要去看這些學校啊等等之類的那我現在比較擔心的當然就是剛剛前面講的,其實本來有一些約已經簽了嘛,或者說你已經要做採購的動作那這個其實照理說本來在委員會大家互相討論一定是可以提出來的\n但太多的這個統山還有一些凍結它是在委員會之後才提出來所以就會造成這樣的問題但我看到凍結的部分也有跟這一個這個海外的僑生是有關係的那我們也只能趕快盡快來安排這個解凍不然的話我看僑委會這樣很難運作\n我們如果這個解凍案沒有在今年五六月就完成的話那勢必會造成我們下一半年在執行上面對很大的挑戰那學生如果真的進來了那你該補助的沒有補助到位我們也會變成學校都會一直去跟委員陳情然後我們就會很困擾所以不是我們不想付這個錢而是因為解凍案還沒有通過現在這真的是麻煩的地方就是說剛剛聽到前面很多委員其實關心很多事項但這些事項都需要預算執行我覺得這是最困擾的地方\n那我想問一下因為剛剛這一個我記得是楚雲委員也有問所以我這個稍微快一點就是說因為賴總統在前陣子有這一個記者會他的談話裡面有這個17項措施他裡面有幾個措施看起來跟僑委會是有關的比如說這一個你跟有盟國家合作那有盟國家合作其實跟我們的僑民能不能夠生根能不能夠跟他們做一些遊說這是有關係的然後全球的佈局這跟他們的投資也有關係那最重要的我覺得是最後一個\n就是我們對中國的這個世獨教育我看到這個的時候呢其實我就記得我們去年在質詢僑委會的時候就已經講過就是說怎麼對海外去宣導他們現在對中國的認識那這個呢其實呢回過頭來到國內其實僑委會這個部分是不是應該可以複製讓國內的學校也可以能夠再對我們的青年學子做這樣的一些這個宣導\n是 事實上強化學生 年輕朋友的識讀能力我覺得這件事情很重要不單單只有在對國家認同或者是中國統戰的部分事實上因為全球的假訊息Fake News等等的威脅也非常的嚴峻所以如何提高判斷能力 識讀能力這件事情我覺得是我們公民教育裡面真的是刻不容緩的\n那所以我們在平時除了對我們僑團做這些相關的課程研究以外我們也逐步會想辦法把它在教材的補充裡面也把某些例子融入進去希望能夠引起他們的討論那尤其是在比較民主自由的國家裡面這樣子的威脅挑戰是需要大家全部的年輕朋友都一起提升才有辦法\n那我們也願意分享我們的經驗來國內所以國內的部分我們包括僑生進來我們現在的新生手冊當然都是跟他們權益比較相關的但未來如果有需求我們也會強化在這一部分來提供一些遇到假訊息 錯假訊息要怎麼來處理跟面對的SOP作業事實上我們現在已經開辦了一個專線電話的專線是七語的\n然後也有這個email的這個帳號是他們可以投書來呈現一些問題那一旦有我們就會馬上去把這個案例擴大去做宣討對因為我記得我們在去年的時候就有講過就是說我們在海外尤其像認知作戰等等之類的其實我還\n還沒有進來之前就有跟僑委會討論過這一個課程那當然說第一個課程的設計是重要的那第二個就是網站我們那時候有提到說其實網站應該更多即時的更新讓這一個海外他們也可以去認知到說比如說中國在海外做什麼操作但是剛剛這樣聽起來光是海外網站的建置現在預算可能都會出現一些問題\n是確實很有影響然後再來就是外交部因為畢竟外交部現在海外的這些宣導的費用現在是被砍成負的所以基本上是沒有辦法運作那就只能靠僑委會看能不能在這個總預算現在還沒有恢復之前能不能做一些補足因為畢竟跟外交部就像兩隻腳一樣如果僑委會這麼能夠雖然我知道僑委會現在也是很困難但是如果能夠協助的話對外交部應該會是一個很大的幫助\n比較外交部的國傳司全部砍除變複數我們算相對的幸運但即便是這樣也是困難我們會在這個困難當中因為預算也積極很低所以我們六大官網我們還是會努力來經營想盡辦法用最精準的方式快速的方式來達到這個目標\n對 算是幸運啦不過我看他們當時可能也只是忘記砍而已所以我真的不知道為什麼會這個樣子但是很亂七八糟那再來就是這個統戰的部分因為之前我問過比較多我想問這一個台商這個我先跳過就是這個天下雜誌的報導剛剛其實有蠻多委員問到的\n那我這個可能想請這個委員長再說一下就是說呢這個仲介目前來講它的確是個嚴重的問題嘛那目前我們能夠譬如說逮到它的這個機制是什麼是有人回報嗎還是我們主動查核呢等等之類是用什麼樣的機制還是說跟其他的部會合作因為對我們來講我們知道這是問題嘛但是要怎麼去揪到這個問題現在執行的狀況是什麼\n跟委員說明在學生還沒有正式辦簽證進來以前事實上我們在海外的派駐點都有我們的僑秘書他們是會進行第一波的interview的所以他們會去抽查那抽查在問這些學生的基本問題的時候就可以找到一些症狀\n就是說這一批整個是從哪一個系統進來的那從這裡面去跟他問多問幾個學生以後就會發現說他們學生有些他沒有特別的心防他會知道他會忠實交代他交了多少錢什麼什麼什麼那我們就會開始掌握那如果這一批全部是這樣的話我們就高度懷疑他就是仲介的處理那整批我們就不給他進來了事實上從去年開始我們就已經開始落實這樣的做法那因此呢當然這個凡有利可圖仲介必達\n所以我們當然也得罪了一些仲介所以有些仲介已經想辦法說我的壞話說造謠的狀況非常非常的嚴峻投訴到總統府行政院外交部各種管道的都有不過還好我們國家有我們調查的機制這些最後都被歸檔而已因為都不是事實甚至有跑到我們的代表處去鬧事的\n那進來以後事實上學生他們還是有一些人可能當時沒有抓到的因為我剛剛講的說我們有一個專線那這專線學生他可以隨時打電話來跟我們做通報或者是我們也會不定期去跟學校做抽查的時候會找學生來座談跟詢問所以一旦我們問到說你為什麼要特別轉校\n我們就會掌握某些脈絡我們就開始會循線去調查所以過去兩年我們確實是已經把某些東西鎖死了但是不排除有很多新型態會持續的發生所以我們OS必須要保持一個很謹慎的態度來觀察這些這個\n可能的違法情勢那不過現在護照跟居留證這件事情已經在去年11月12月被我們全部矯正了所以現在大概沒有沒有人敢把學生的這個個人文件扣留了因為時間的關係那我現在想說剛剛前面我就重整一下第一個是前面有一個面談的機制那就是說他就算來到台灣之後也會有專線所以呢也會有訪查\n那但我相信這種事情可能有可能會越來越嚴重因為我們的移工啊等等之類講到說這方面的問題嗎一些仲介的問題所以如果在這個之後呢他在執法上或者在查緝上的量能不足的話有可能喬偉會還是要提早說\n有 而且我們也定期跟那個勞動部保持密切的聯繫有些相關的情勢我們也會通報給這個勞動部然後也會通報給教育部也會通報給外交部畢竟這個裡面還有包括他們簽證的問題還有他們一旦喪失這些學生的資格的時候我們發現那就立即通報移民署就會馬上遞解出境謝謝委員長 謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.816 --> 00:03.518\n好謝謝主席有請委員長有請委員長沈委員你好\n\n00:10.337 --> 00:31.947\n委員長早因為一開始我先想說畢竟這一整年要推動很多的業務還是跟預算有關我知道僑委會有一些大部分是統山的部分所影響但是也有一些個別的凍結目前來講統山的這些部分對僑委會未來的運作的影響大概是什麼\n\n00:32.666 --> 00:47.970\n跟委員報告其實我們在1、2月的時候我們就已經面臨一個很尷尬的處境因為我們六大官網從1月1號就要開始重新營運的這個相關作為那事實上我們都在去年都已經開標了那開完標以後結果我們的預算被這個刪減了400多萬那我們已經開標到超過這個額數了所以當時我就有點\n\n00:57.152 --> 01:01.096\n嚇到說不知道這樣子我今年要怎麼執行這個預算會有可能有差一兩百萬的這個缺口那所以這個確實是我們現在很大的一個困難那除此之外包括這個出國旅費還有業務費也是有同樣的影響\n\n01:15.209 --> 01:37.345\n委員們都很關心我們在僑生的業務上如何去落實跟精進幫助學生在學習或者實習以及畢業之後的就業可是又把我們的國內旅費砍成這樣讓我們就沒有連要去查看這些學校的機率都要大幅下降人數也要縮減那這某個程度說起來是\n\n01:38.486 --> 02:06.558\n變成讓我們的這個督察機制會減弱所以我們又不得留用的狀況之下我們現在是確實頭很痛這個都是很現實的狀況然後一般業務費是我們有些已經本來預計要給海外的這一個喬教中心或者是僱員做一定的這個設備的改善的結果因為這樣子不但沒有增加還又砍了10%所以這些也被迫今年可能都又要暫停了\n\n02:07.478 --> 02:26.041\n對,因為我覺得對僑委會來講,這個國內外的旅費應該都很重要,包含剛剛講的其實國內你要去看這些學校啊等等之類的那我現在比較擔心的當然就是剛剛前面講的,其實本來有一些約已經簽了嘛,或者說你已經要做採購的動作那這個其實照理說本來在委員會大家互相討論一定是可以提出來的\n\n02:26.602 --> 02:41.237\n但太多的這個統山還有一些凍結它是在委員會之後才提出來所以就會造成這樣的問題但我看到凍結的部分也有跟這一個這個海外的僑生是有關係的那我們也只能趕快盡快來安排這個解凍不然的話我看僑委會這樣很難運作\n\n02:42.389 --> 03:11.929\n我們如果這個解凍案沒有在今年五六月就完成的話那勢必會造成我們下一半年在執行上面對很大的挑戰那學生如果真的進來了那你該補助的沒有補助到位我們也會變成學校都會一直去跟委員陳情然後我們就會很困擾所以不是我們不想付這個錢而是因為解凍案還沒有通過現在這真的是麻煩的地方就是說剛剛聽到前面很多委員其實關心很多事項但這些事項都需要預算執行我覺得這是最困擾的地方\n\n03:12.569 --> 03:39.887\n那我想問一下因為剛剛這一個我記得是楚雲委員也有問所以我這個稍微快一點就是說因為賴總統在前陣子有這一個記者會他的談話裡面有這個17項措施他裡面有幾個措施看起來跟僑委會是有關的比如說這一個你跟有盟國家合作那有盟國家合作其實跟我們的僑民能不能夠生根能不能夠跟他們做一些遊說這是有關係的然後全球的佈局這跟他們的投資也有關係那最重要的我覺得是最後一個\n\n03:40.667 --> 04:01.554\n就是我們對中國的這個世獨教育我看到這個的時候呢其實我就記得我們去年在質詢僑委會的時候就已經講過就是說怎麼對海外去宣導他們現在對中國的認識那這個呢其實呢回過頭來到國內其實僑委會這個部分是不是應該可以複製讓國內的學校也可以能夠再對我們的青年學子做這樣的一些這個宣導\n\n04:03.263 --> 04:28.080\n是事實上強化學生年輕朋友的識讀能力我覺得這件事情很重要不單單只有在對國家認同或者是中國統戰的部分事實上因為全球的假訊息FakeNews等等的威脅也非常的嚴峻所以如何提高判斷能力識讀能力這件事情我覺得是我們公民教育裡面真的是刻不容緩的\n\n04:28.880 --> 04:31.802\n那所以我們在平時除了對我們僑團做這些相關的課程研究以外我們也逐步會想辦法把它在教材的補充裡面也把某些例子融入進去希望能夠引起他們的討論那尤其是在比較民主自由的國家裡面這樣子的威脅挑戰是需要大家全部的年輕朋友都一起提升才有辦法\n\n04:54.415 --> 05:00.657\n那我們也願意分享我們的經驗來國內所以國內的部分我們包括僑生進來我們現在的新生手冊當然都是跟他們權益比較相關的但未來如果有需求我們也會強化在這一部分來提供一些遇到假訊息錯假訊息要怎麼來處理跟面對的SOP作業事實上我們現在已經開辦了一個專線電話的專線是七語的\n\n05:21.644 --> 05:39.546\n然後也有這個email的這個帳號是他們可以投書來呈現一些問題那一旦有我們就會馬上去把這個案例擴大去做宣討對因為我記得我們在去年的時候就有講過就是說我們在海外尤其像認知作戰等等之類的其實我還\n\n05:40.166 --> 06:00.081\n還沒有進來之前就有跟僑委會討論過這一個課程那當然說第一個課程的設計是重要的那第二個就是網站我們那時候有提到說其實網站應該更多即時的更新讓這一個海外他們也可以去認知到說比如說中國在海外做什麼操作但是剛剛這樣聽起來光是海外網站的建置現在預算可能都會出現一些問題\n\n06:00.822 --> 06:24.357\n是確實很有影響然後再來就是外交部因為畢竟外交部現在海外的這些宣導的費用現在是被砍成負的所以基本上是沒有辦法運作那就只能靠僑委會看能不能在這個總預算現在還沒有恢復之前能不能做一些補足因為畢竟跟外交部就像兩隻腳一樣如果僑委會這麼能夠雖然我知道僑委會現在也是很困難但是如果能夠協助的話對外交部應該會是一個很大的幫助\n\n06:24.397 --> 06:32.500\n比較外交部的國傳司全部砍除變複數我們算相對的幸運但即便是這樣也是困難我們會在這個困難當中因為預算也積極很低所以我們六大官網我們還是會努力來經營想盡辦法用最精準的方式快速的方式來達到這個目標\n\n06:46.925 --> 06:59.962\n對算是幸運啦不過我看他們當時可能也只是忘記砍而已所以我真的不知道為什麼會這個樣子但是很亂七八糟那再來就是這個統戰的部分因為之前我問過比較多我想問這一個台商這個我先跳過就是這個天下雜誌的報導剛剛其實有蠻多委員問到的\n\n07:02.805 --> 07:22.582\n那我這個可能想請這個委員長再說一下就是說呢這個仲介目前來講它的確是個嚴重的問題嘛那目前我們能夠譬如說逮到它的這個機制是什麼是有人回報嗎還是我們主動查核呢等等之類是用什麼樣的機制還是說跟其他的部會合作因為對我們來講我們知道這是問題嘛但是要怎麼去揪到這個問題現在執行的狀況是什麼\n\n07:26.850 --> 07:31.994\n跟委員說明在學生還沒有正式辦簽證進來以前事實上我們在海外的派駐點都有我們的僑秘書他們是會進行第一波的interview的所以他們會去抽查那抽查在問這些學生的基本問題的時候就可以找到一些症狀\n\n07:45.765 --> 08:13.840\n就是說這一批整個是從哪一個系統進來的那從這裡面去跟他問多問幾個學生以後就會發現說他們學生有些他沒有特別的心防他會知道他會忠實交代他交了多少錢什麼什麼什麼那我們就會開始掌握那如果這一批全部是這樣的話我們就高度懷疑他就是仲介的處理那整批我們就不給他進來了事實上從去年開始我們就已經開始落實這樣的做法那因此呢當然這個凡有利可圖仲介必達\n\n08:14.841 --> 08:35.980\n所以我們當然也得罪了一些仲介所以有些仲介已經想辦法說我的壞話說造謠的狀況非常非常的嚴峻投訴到總統府行政院外交部各種管道的都有不過還好我們國家有我們調查的機制這些最後都被歸檔而已因為都不是事實甚至有跑到我們的代表處去鬧事的\n\n08:37.281 --> 08:57.217\n那進來以後事實上學生他們還是有一些人可能當時沒有抓到的因為我剛剛講的說我們有一個專線那這專線學生他可以隨時打電話來跟我們做通報或者是我們也會不定期去跟學校做抽查的時候會找學生來座談跟詢問所以一旦我們問到說你為什麼要特別轉校\n\n08:58.338 --> 09:02.001\n我們就會掌握某些脈絡我們就開始會循線去調查所以過去兩年我們確實是已經把某些東西鎖死了但是不排除有很多新型態會持續的發生所以我們OS必須要保持一個很謹慎的態度來觀察這些這個\n\n09:18.113 --> 09:39.331\n可能的違法情勢那不過現在護照跟居留證這件事情已經在去年11月12月被我們全部矯正了所以現在大概沒有沒有人敢把學生的這個個人文件扣留了因為時間的關係那我現在想說剛剛前面我就重整一下第一個是前面有一個面談的機制那就是說他就算來到台灣之後也會有專線所以呢也會有訪查\n\n09:41.773 --> 09:54.824\n那但我相信這種事情可能有可能會越來越嚴重因為我們的移工啊等等之類講到說這方面的問題嗎一些仲介的問題所以如果在這個之後呢他在執法上或者在查緝上的量能不足的話有可能喬偉會還是要提早說\n\n09:55.560 --> 10:18.652\n有而且我們也定期跟那個勞動部保持密切的聯繫有些相關的情勢我們也會通報給這個勞動部然後也會通報給教育部也會通報給外交部畢竟這個裡面還有包括他們簽證的問題還有他們一旦喪失這些學生的資格的時候我們發現那就立即通報移民署就會馬上遞解出境謝謝委員長謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.816,"end":3.518,"text":"好謝謝主席有請委員長有請委員長沈委員你好"},{"start":10.337,"end":31.947,"text":"委員長早因為一開始我先想說畢竟這一整年要推動很多的業務還是跟預算有關我知道僑委會有一些大部分是統山的部分所影響但是也有一些個別的凍結目前來講統山的這些部分對僑委會未來的運作的影響大概是什麼"},{"start":32.666,"end":47.97,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們在1、2月的時候我們就已經面臨一個很尷尬的處境因為我們六大官網從1月1號就要開始重新營運的這個相關作為那事實上我們都在去年都已經開標了那開完標以後結果我們的預算被這個刪減了400多萬那我們已經開標到超過這個額數了所以當時我就有點"},{"start":57.152,"end":61.096,"text":"嚇到說不知道這樣子我今年要怎麼執行這個預算會有可能有差一兩百萬的這個缺口那所以這個確實是我們現在很大的一個困難那除此之外包括這個出國旅費還有業務費也是有同樣的影響"},{"start":75.209,"end":97.345,"text":"委員們都很關心我們在僑生的業務上如何去落實跟精進幫助學生在學習或者實習以及畢業之後的就業可是又把我們的國內旅費砍成這樣讓我們就沒有連要去查看這些學校的機率都要大幅下降人數也要縮減那這某個程度說起來是"},{"start":98.486,"end":126.558,"text":"變成讓我們的這個督察機制會減弱所以我們又不得留用的狀況之下我們現在是確實頭很痛這個都是很現實的狀況然後一般業務費是我們有些已經本來預計要給海外的這一個喬教中心或者是僱員做一定的這個設備的改善的結果因為這樣子不但沒有增加還又砍了10%所以這些也被迫今年可能都又要暫停了"},{"start":127.478,"end":146.041,"text":"對,因為我覺得對僑委會來講,這個國內外的旅費應該都很重要,包含剛剛講的其實國內你要去看這些學校啊等等之類的那我現在比較擔心的當然就是剛剛前面講的,其實本來有一些約已經簽了嘛,或者說你已經要做採購的動作那這個其實照理說本來在委員會大家互相討論一定是可以提出來的"},{"start":146.602,"end":161.237,"text":"但太多的這個統山還有一些凍結它是在委員會之後才提出來所以就會造成這樣的問題但我看到凍結的部分也有跟這一個這個海外的僑生是有關係的那我們也只能趕快盡快來安排這個解凍不然的話我看僑委會這樣很難運作"},{"start":162.389,"end":191.929,"text":"我們如果這個解凍案沒有在今年五六月就完成的話那勢必會造成我們下一半年在執行上面對很大的挑戰那學生如果真的進來了那你該補助的沒有補助到位我們也會變成學校都會一直去跟委員陳情然後我們就會很困擾所以不是我們不想付這個錢而是因為解凍案還沒有通過現在這真的是麻煩的地方就是說剛剛聽到前面很多委員其實關心很多事項但這些事項都需要預算執行我覺得這是最困擾的地方"},{"start":192.569,"end":219.887,"text":"那我想問一下因為剛剛這一個我記得是楚雲委員也有問所以我這個稍微快一點就是說因為賴總統在前陣子有這一個記者會他的談話裡面有這個17項措施他裡面有幾個措施看起來跟僑委會是有關的比如說這一個你跟有盟國家合作那有盟國家合作其實跟我們的僑民能不能夠生根能不能夠跟他們做一些遊說這是有關係的然後全球的佈局這跟他們的投資也有關係那最重要的我覺得是最後一個"},{"start":220.667,"end":241.554,"text":"就是我們對中國的這個世獨教育我看到這個的時候呢其實我就記得我們去年在質詢僑委會的時候就已經講過就是說怎麼對海外去宣導他們現在對中國的認識那這個呢其實呢回過頭來到國內其實僑委會這個部分是不是應該可以複製讓國內的學校也可以能夠再對我們的青年學子做這樣的一些這個宣導"},{"start":243.263,"end":268.08,"text":"是 事實上強化學生 年輕朋友的識讀能力我覺得這件事情很重要不單單只有在對國家認同或者是中國統戰的部分事實上因為全球的假訊息Fake News等等的威脅也非常的嚴峻所以如何提高判斷能力 識讀能力這件事情我覺得是我們公民教育裡面真的是刻不容緩的"},{"start":268.88,"end":271.802,"text":"那所以我們在平時除了對我們僑團做這些相關的課程研究以外我們也逐步會想辦法把它在教材的補充裡面也把某些例子融入進去希望能夠引起他們的討論那尤其是在比較民主自由的國家裡面這樣子的威脅挑戰是需要大家全部的年輕朋友都一起提升才有辦法"},{"start":294.415,"end":300.657,"text":"那我們也願意分享我們的經驗來國內所以國內的部分我們包括僑生進來我們現在的新生手冊當然都是跟他們權益比較相關的但未來如果有需求我們也會強化在這一部分來提供一些遇到假訊息 錯假訊息要怎麼來處理跟面對的SOP作業事實上我們現在已經開辦了一個專線電話的專線是七語的"},{"start":321.644,"end":339.546,"text":"然後也有這個email的這個帳號是他們可以投書來呈現一些問題那一旦有我們就會馬上去把這個案例擴大去做宣討對因為我記得我們在去年的時候就有講過就是說我們在海外尤其像認知作戰等等之類的其實我還"},{"start":340.166,"end":360.081,"text":"還沒有進來之前就有跟僑委會討論過這一個課程那當然說第一個課程的設計是重要的那第二個就是網站我們那時候有提到說其實網站應該更多即時的更新讓這一個海外他們也可以去認知到說比如說中國在海外做什麼操作但是剛剛這樣聽起來光是海外網站的建置現在預算可能都會出現一些問題"},{"start":360.822,"end":384.357,"text":"是確實很有影響然後再來就是外交部因為畢竟外交部現在海外的這些宣導的費用現在是被砍成負的所以基本上是沒有辦法運作那就只能靠僑委會看能不能在這個總預算現在還沒有恢復之前能不能做一些補足因為畢竟跟外交部就像兩隻腳一樣如果僑委會這麼能夠雖然我知道僑委會現在也是很困難但是如果能夠協助的話對外交部應該會是一個很大的幫助"},{"start":384.397,"end":392.5,"text":"比較外交部的國傳司全部砍除變複數我們算相對的幸運但即便是這樣也是困難我們會在這個困難當中因為預算也積極很低所以我們六大官網我們還是會努力來經營想盡辦法用最精準的方式快速的方式來達到這個目標"},{"start":406.925,"end":419.962,"text":"對 算是幸運啦不過我看他們當時可能也只是忘記砍而已所以我真的不知道為什麼會這個樣子但是很亂七八糟那再來就是這個統戰的部分因為之前我問過比較多我想問這一個台商這個我先跳過就是這個天下雜誌的報導剛剛其實有蠻多委員問到的"},{"start":422.805,"end":442.582,"text":"那我這個可能想請這個委員長再說一下就是說呢這個仲介目前來講它的確是個嚴重的問題嘛那目前我們能夠譬如說逮到它的這個機制是什麼是有人回報嗎還是我們主動查核呢等等之類是用什麼樣的機制還是說跟其他的部會合作因為對我們來講我們知道這是問題嘛但是要怎麼去揪到這個問題現在執行的狀況是什麼"},{"start":446.85,"end":451.994,"text":"跟委員說明在學生還沒有正式辦簽證進來以前事實上我們在海外的派駐點都有我們的僑秘書他們是會進行第一波的interview的所以他們會去抽查那抽查在問這些學生的基本問題的時候就可以找到一些症狀"},{"start":465.765,"end":493.84,"text":"就是說這一批整個是從哪一個系統進來的那從這裡面去跟他問多問幾個學生以後就會發現說他們學生有些他沒有特別的心防他會知道他會忠實交代他交了多少錢什麼什麼什麼那我們就會開始掌握那如果這一批全部是這樣的話我們就高度懷疑他就是仲介的處理那整批我們就不給他進來了事實上從去年開始我們就已經開始落實這樣的做法那因此呢當然這個凡有利可圖仲介必達"},{"start":494.841,"end":515.98,"text":"所以我們當然也得罪了一些仲介所以有些仲介已經想辦法說我的壞話說造謠的狀況非常非常的嚴峻投訴到總統府行政院外交部各種管道的都有不過還好我們國家有我們調查的機制這些最後都被歸檔而已因為都不是事實甚至有跑到我們的代表處去鬧事的"},{"start":517.281,"end":537.217,"text":"那進來以後事實上學生他們還是有一些人可能當時沒有抓到的因為我剛剛講的說我們有一個專線那這專線學生他可以隨時打電話來跟我們做通報或者是我們也會不定期去跟學校做抽查的時候會找學生來座談跟詢問所以一旦我們問到說你為什麼要特別轉校"},{"start":538.338,"end":542.001,"text":"我們就會掌握某些脈絡我們就開始會循線去調查所以過去兩年我們確實是已經把某些東西鎖死了但是不排除有很多新型態會持續的發生所以我們OS必須要保持一個很謹慎的態度來觀察這些這個"},{"start":558.113,"end":579.331,"text":"可能的違法情勢那不過現在護照跟居留證這件事情已經在去年11月12月被我們全部矯正了所以現在大概沒有沒有人敢把學生的這個個人文件扣留了因為時間的關係那我現在想說剛剛前面我就重整一下第一個是前面有一個面談的機制那就是說他就算來到台灣之後也會有專線所以呢也會有訪查"},{"start":581.773,"end":594.824,"text":"那但我相信這種事情可能有可能會越來越嚴重因為我們的移工啊等等之類講到說這方面的問題嗎一些仲介的問題所以如果在這個之後呢他在執法上或者在查緝上的量能不足的話有可能喬偉會還是要提早說"},{"start":595.56,"end":618.652,"text":"有 而且我們也定期跟那個勞動部保持密切的聯繫有些相關的情勢我們也會通報給這個勞動部然後也會通報給教育部也會通報給外交部畢竟這個裡面還有包括他們簽證的問題還有他們一旦喪失這些學生的資格的時候我們發現那就立即通報移民署就會馬上遞解出境謝謝委員長 謝謝好 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":430,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（10時28分）謝謝主席，有請委員長。"],["主席：請委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：沈委員，你好！"],["沈委員伯洋：委員長早！一開始我先想說，畢竟這一整年要推動很多的業務，還是跟預算有關……"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：我知道僑委會大部分是統刪的部分有影響……"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["沈委員伯洋：但是也有一些個別的凍結……"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["沈委員伯洋：目前來講，統刪的部分對僑委會未來運作的影響大概是什麼？"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員報告，其實我們在1、2月的時候就已經面臨一個很尷尬的處境，因為我們六大官網從1月1日就要開始有重新營運這個相關作為。事實上，我們去年都已經開標了，開完標以後，結果我們的預算被刪減了四百多萬，我們已經開標到超過這個額數了，當時我就有點嚇到，不知道這樣子我今年要怎麼執行這個預算，可能有差100、200萬的缺口，所以這個確實是我們現在很大的一個困難。","除此之外，包括出國旅費，還有業務費，也是有同樣的影響。委員們都很關心我們在僑生的業務上如何去落實及精進，幫助學生在學習或者實習以及畢業之後的就業，可是又把我們的國內旅費砍成這樣，讓我們連要去查看這些學校的機率都要大幅下降，人數也要縮減，這某個程度變成讓我們的督察機制減弱，而且又不得流用的狀況之下，我們現在確實是頭很痛，這個都是很現實的狀況。","然後一般業務費是有些我們本來已經預計要給海外的僑教中心或者是雇員做一定的設備改善，結果因為這樣子，不但沒有增加，還又砍了10%，所以這些今年可能也被迫又都要暫停了。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，我覺得對僑委會來講，國內外的旅費應該都很重要，包含剛剛講的，你要去看國內這些學校等等的……"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["沈委員伯洋：我現在比較擔心的當然就是剛剛前面講的，本來有一些約已經簽了，或者你已經要做採購的動作，這個照理說本來在委員會大家互相討論一定是可以提出來的，但太多的統刪還有一些凍結是在委員會之後才提出來，所以就會造成這樣的問題。我看到凍結的部分也有跟海外僑生是有關係的，我們也只能儘快安排解凍，不然的話，我看僑委會這樣很難運作。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的，如果解凍案沒有在今年5、6月就完成的話，勢必造成我們下半年在執行上面有很大的挑戰，學生如果真的進來了，我們該補助的沒有補助到位，學校都會一直去跟委員陳情，然後我們就會很困擾，並不是我們不想付這個錢，而是因為解凍案還沒有通過。"],["沈委員伯洋：現在這真的是很麻煩的地方，剛剛聽到前面有很多委員其實都很關心很多事項，但這些事項都需要預算執行，我覺得這是最困擾的地方。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["沈委員伯洋：我想問一下，這個我記得剛剛楚茵委員也有問，所以我稍微快一點。賴總統在前陣子有一個記者會，他的談話裡面有提到17項措施，裡面有幾個措施看起來跟僑委會是有關的，比如與友盟國家合作，與友盟國家合作其實跟我們的僑民能不能夠深耕、能不能夠跟他們做一些遊說是有關係的；然後全球的布局，這跟他們的投資也有關係；最重要的是最後一個，就是我們對中國的識讀教育，看到這個的時候就想起我們去年在質詢僑委會的時候就已經講過，怎麼對海外去宣導他們現在對中國的認識……"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：回過頭來到國內，其實僑委會這個部分是不是應該可以複製，讓國內的學校也能夠針對我們的青年學子做一些這樣的宣導？"],["徐委員長佳青：是，事實上，強化學生、年輕朋友的識讀能力，我覺得這件事情很重要，不單單只有在對國家認同或者是中國統戰的部分。事實上，因為全球的假訊息、fake news等等的威脅也非常的嚴峻，所以如何提高判斷能力、識讀能力這件事情，我覺得在我們公民教育裡面真的是刻不容緩的。我們在平時除了對僑團做這些相關的課程研究以外，也會想辦法逐步在教材的補充裡面把某些例子融入，希望能夠引起他們的討論。尤其是在比較民主自由的國家裡面，這樣子的威脅、挑戰需要全部的年輕朋友大家都一起提升才有辦法。我們也願意分享這個經驗來國內，所以國內的部分，包括僑生進來，我們現在的新生手冊當然都是跟他們權益比較相關的，未來如果有需求，我們也會強化這一部分，提供一些在遇到錯假訊息時要怎麼來處理及面對的SOP作業。事實上，我們現在已經開辦了一個電話的專線，是7語的，也有email帳號，他們可以投書來呈現一些問題，一旦有，我們就會馬上把這個案例擴大宣導。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，記得我們在去年的時候就有講過，我們在海外可以有一些宣導，尤其像認知作戰之類的，其實我在還沒有進來之前，就有跟僑委會討論過這一個課程……"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：當然第一個課程的設計是重要的，第二個就是網站，我們那時候有提到，其實網站應該有更多即時的更新，讓海外他們也可以去認知到比如中國在海外做什麼操作……"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["沈委員伯洋：但是剛剛這樣聽起來，光是海外網站的建置，現在在預算上可能都會出現一些問題。"],["徐委員長佳青：確實是很有影響。"],["沈委員伯洋：再來就是外交部，畢竟外交部現在海外的宣導費用被砍成負的，所以基本上沒有辦法運作，就只能靠僑委會，看能不能在總預算還沒有恢復之前做一些補足，因為僑委會和外交部就像兩隻腳一樣。雖然我知道僑委會現在也是很困難，但是如果僑委會能夠協助的話，對外交部應該會是一個很大的幫助。"],["徐委員長佳青：外交部國傳司的預算全部被砍除變負數，我們算相對幸運，但即便是這樣也是困難，因為預算的基期也很低，所以在困難當中。我們六大官網還是會努力來經營，想盡辦法用最精準的方式、快速的方式來達到這個目標。"],["沈委員伯洋：你們算是幸運，我看他們當時可能也只是忘記砍而已，我真的不知道為什麼會這個樣子，真的是亂七八糟。","再來就是統戰的部分，之前我問過比較多，其中臺商的部分我也先跳過，關於天下雜誌的報導，剛剛其實有滿多委員問到，我想請委員長再說明一下，目前來講仲介的確是個嚴重的問題，目前我們能夠逮到它的機制是什麼？是有人回報嗎？還是我們主動查核等等之類，是用什麼樣的機制，還是跟其他的部會合作？因為對我們來講，我們知道這是問題，但是要怎麼去揪到這個問題，現在執行的狀況是什麼？"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員說明，在學生還沒有正式辦簽證進來以前，事實上，我們在海外的派駐點都有僑務秘書，他們會進行第一波的interview，他們會去抽查，透過詢問這些學生基本問題的時候就可以找到一些症狀。這一批學生整個是從哪一個系統進來的，從這裡面去多問幾個學生以後就會發現，有些學生沒有特別的心防就會忠實交代他交了多少錢等等，所以我們就會開始掌握，如果這一批全部是這樣的話，我們就會高度懷疑這是仲介的處理，整批我們就不給他進來了。事實上，我們從去年就已經開始落實這樣的作法，但是「凡有利可圖，仲介必達」，當然我們也得罪了一些仲介，有些仲介已經想辦法在說我的壞話，所以造謠的狀況非常非常的嚴峻，投書到總統府、行政院、外交部各種管道的都有，不過還好我們國家有調查的機制，這些資料最後都被歸檔而已，因為都不是事實，甚至也有跑到我們的代表處去鬧事的。","在他們進來以後，事實上，可能還是有一些學生是當時沒有抓到的，剛剛講我們有一個專線，學生可以隨時打這個專線電話來跟我們通報，或者是我們不定期去學校抽查的時候也會找學生來座談和詢問。一旦我們問到你為什麼要特別轉校，我們就會掌握某些脈絡，進而開始循線調查。過去兩年我們確實是已經把某些東西鎖死了，但是不排除有很多新型態會持續的發生，所以我們always必須要保持一個很謹慎的態度來觀察這些可能的違法情事。不過現在護照跟居留證這件事情上，已經在去年11月、12月全部被我們矯正了，所以現在大概沒有人敢把學生的個人文件扣留了。"],["沈委員伯洋：OK。因為時間的關係，剛剛前面的我再綜整一下，第一個是前面有一個面談機制，他就算來到臺灣之後也會有專線，也會有訪查，但我相信這種事情有可能會越來越嚴重，因為我們的移工之類常常會有這方面的問題，也就是一些仲介的問題，所以如果在執法上或者在查緝上的量能不足的話，有可能僑委會還是要提早說。"],["徐委員長佳青：有，而且我們也定期跟勞動部保持密切的聯繫，有些相關的情事，我們也會通報給勞動部，也會通報給教育部，也會通報給外交部，畢竟這裡面還有包括他們簽證的問題，還有他們一旦喪失學生資格的時候，我們發現就會立即通報移民署，就會馬上遞解出境。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝委員長、謝謝主席。"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝委員。"],["主席（沈委員伯洋）：現在請林憶君委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-3","speakers":["沈伯洋","徐巧芯","羅美玲","陳俊宇","王定宇","黃仁","林楚茵","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","林憶君","張啓楷","黃國昌","馬文君"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142801_00013"}}}