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\"對台灣產業是好的啊是好的是好的就是說因為半導體的市場是在增加在增加當中所以光靠台灣作為製造基地是不夠的那主委請問一下因為那個亞利桑那州州長馬上就要來台灣了嘛這是你知道嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 239.637, \"end\": 240.157, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 240.157, \"end\": 240.278, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 240.278, \"end\": 240.458, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 240.458, \"end\": 240.558, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 240.558, \"end\": 240.918, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 240.918, \"end\": 241.038, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 241.038, \"end\": 241.198, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 241.198, \"end\": 241.458, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 241.458, \"end\": 241.578, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 241.578, \"end\": 241.778, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 241.778, \"end\": 241.979, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 256.507, \"end\": 256.527, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 257.808, \"end\": 273.104, \"text\": \"那也有傳出說他是不是也會來拜訪一些台積電的供應商然後會希望他們到美國投資然後在亞利桑那州可能成立一個半導體的聚落那這個部分國科會有掌握嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 257.808, \"end\": 258.609, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 258.609, \"end\": 258.709, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 258.709, \"end\": 259.049, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 259.049, \"end\": 259.39, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 259.39, \"end\": 259.57, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 259.57, \"end\": 259.69, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 259.69, \"end\": 259.75, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 259.75, \"end\": 259.89, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 259.89, \"end\": 261.512, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 261.512, \"end\": 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276.586, \"end\": 276.927, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 276.927, \"end\": 277.127, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 277.127, \"end\": 277.327, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 277.327, \"end\": 278.627, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 278.627, \"end\": 278.948, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 278.948, \"end\": 281.669, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 281.669, \"end\": 282.53, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 282.53, \"end\": 282.71, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 282.71, \"end\": 282.83, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 282.83, \"end\": 283.03, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 283.03, \"end\": 283.53, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 283.53, \"end\": 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\"響\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 295.777, \"end\": 295.797, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 302.0, \"end\": 327.135, \"text\": \"所以我們其實大家會單線點在這邊嘛所以說剛剛台積電去之後供應鏈的整個移過去在那邊成立一個科技聚落之後那台灣這邊的投資會不會因為這樣子受到排擠嘛然後第二個就影響到就業的機會啊都不會 主委絕對都不會謝謝委員因為台積電在台灣還在擴敞當中那在台灣的而且他也幫台灣的這個供應鏈\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 302.0, \"end\": 302.16, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 302.16, \"end\": 303.281, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 303.281, \"end\": 303.561, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 303.561, \"end\": 303.761, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 303.761, \"end\": 303.901, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 303.901, \"end\": 304.722, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"線\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 304.722, \"end\": 305.242, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 305.242, \"end\": 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00:00:52,242\n好主委那個我也是持續想問一下台積電的問題因為主委之前有提到就是因為台積電的前瞻製程通通都在製造研發都在跟流台灣所以不用貪心會掏空台灣也不會變成美積電這樣講法是多慮的當然我們希望是這樣希望是這樣但因為市場上包括很多專家學者都有提出相關疑慮譬如說\n\n3\n00:00:53,522 --> 00:01:20,418\n台積電的前研發處長他就提到他的分析他說台積電的先進製程落地在美國那他擔心說美國會逼台積電把技術移轉或者是把它分割成兩家公司那為什麼呢因為很可能就是到時候美國會把台積電的一些製程用在比如說國防工業上面所以美國可能會希望說直接可以\n\n4\n00:01:21,358 --> 00:01:46,530\n變成美國公司那我不知道主委你對於這個看法是怎樣我想台積電到美國投資主要是因應當地市場的需求我知道主委我想有些東西我們都有共識他會怎麼去一定有他的考量因應客戶在那邊或者是他可能因應未來可能關稅會提高他做出最理性的選擇但我們現在其實擔心的不是\n\n5\n00:01:47,470 --> 00:02:13,388\n他美國怎麼樣我們現在思考的是那台積電他到了美國之後對於台灣產業跟國安的影響我是說從這個角度那因為主委之前的言論都比較樂觀然後就覺得說台積電到美國好像不會怎麼樣跟對台灣不會有太大的影響那我現在只是說這樣的評估是過於樂觀嗎還是說您是真的有經過相關的分析才得到這樣的結論\n\n6\n00:02:14,937 --> 00:02:41,054\n委員剛剛提到有一點我們倒是沒有明確的去談這個議題就是說台積電在美國設的廠會不會有些產品它在台灣是不會做的那可能會有因為包含美國自己國防機密的一些晶片它可能不希望是台積電在台灣的廠做要在美國的廠做類似這種東西是合理的是有可能的那這一點當然我們也不會在這種\n\n7\n00:02:43,035 --> 00:03:06,319\n可能發展的狀況之下台灣也不會去擔心這個事為什麼因為它不是我們的敵對國家那在台灣我們也可能會有自己我們國防需求的經驗也是在我們台灣的產作我們也不希望它在外國的產作你看台積電前研發處長就說他其實擔心美國會把台積電要求技術轉移或分割兩個公司就變美積電這個是那個處長講的\n\n8\n00:03:09,620 --> 00:03:37,797\n技術轉移的部分我剛剛其實跟其他委員也有提到技術分兩部分一部分就是公開的像專利那些東西那大家都可以去學可以去做但是那個是需要授權因為是商業的行為他如果願意授權給別人我跟你講主任因為這個越講越細其實我只是說好像感覺上您非常樂觀但是在業界或市場上面大家其實有很多不同的看法\n\n9\n00:03:38,237 --> 00:03:54,793\n我樂觀的原因是因為我們台灣不能夠自詡說台灣的這個科技研發是全世界領先的絕對不是我們在半導體領域其實還有很多希望跟全世界各國先進國家來學習的合作那好那這樣我再問再具體一點那你覺得台積電到美國去投資對台灣的產業會有什麼影響嗎\n\n10\n00:03:59,637 --> 00:04:16,527\n對台灣產業是好的啊是好的是好的就是說因為半導體的市場是在增加在增加當中所以光靠台灣作為製造基地是不夠的那主委請問一下因為那個亞利桑那州州長馬上就要來台灣了嘛這是你知道嘛\n\n11\n00:04:17,808 --> 00:04:33,104\n那也有傳出說他是不是也會來拜訪一些台積電的供應商然後會希望他們到美國投資然後在亞利桑那州可能成立一個半導體的聚落那這個部分國科會有掌握嗎\n\n12\n00:04:34,665 --> 00:04:55,797\n這部分我們還沒有接到相關的訊息但是台灣的這個台積電它本身台灣這個供應鏈會不會到美國去當然也取決於說他們去到底是會賺錢還是會虧本那當地的政府能夠提供什麼樣的誘因那在包含關稅的這個影響還有那個當地的這個市場的這個拉力等等這個都影響到\n\n13\n00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:27,135\n所以我們其實大家會單線點在這邊嘛所以說剛剛台積電去之後供應鏈的整個移過去在那邊成立一個科技聚落之後那台灣這邊的投資會不會因為這樣子受到排擠嘛然後第二個就影響到就業的機會啊都不會主委絕對都不會謝謝委員因為台積電在台灣還在擴敞當中那在台灣的而且他也幫台灣的這個供應鏈\n\n14\n00:05:29,336 --> 00:05:56,454\n國科也在協助我們的科學園區也在幫台積電在台灣供應鏈的整合我們也在協助所以它供應鏈的投資在台灣也會增加至於我們的廠商是不是有機會變成國際級的公司也可以利用台積電在國外的投資它也可以擴大在當地招募人才在當地建立它的製造基地也會變成國際的公司我們期待是這樣的發展\n\n15\n00:05:57,495 --> 00:06:24,334\n那這樣子的話我們也希望美國政府也要協助他不管是聯邦政府還是州政府當地的這個政府如果他們有足夠誘因廠商我們是政府不會去逼他嘛那一定是有誘因他才會你的意思是說因為台積電在台灣還有持續在擴廠所以不會有產業外移的狀況那請問一下因為上一次魏哲嘉在總統府開記者會的時候他有提到希望政府幫他解決用地跟用電的問題\n\n16\n00:06:26,175 --> 00:06:38,440\n那之前更有提到就是說台積電未來希望在台灣一年設一個新的廠然後在各縣市那國會的掌握是怎麼樣現在用電跟用地都沒問題嗎針對協助台積電設廠的部分\n\n17\n00:06:41,314 --> 00:07:09,220\n我當然不能講沒問題因為還有很多困難要克服有哪些困難要克服當然土地的取得現在台灣土地很寶貴土地我們規劃要取得都要經過我們正常的程序要做環境影響評估你現在是要協助他在哪裡取得用地遇到困難那個我還不能透露不能透露不能透露因為這個規劃的過程當中那會不會有可能因為那個用地取得不了影響到他的社長\n\n18\n00:07:10,340 --> 00:07:34,951\n有可能所以之前承諾說以後會在台灣增加生產線一年設一場可能沒有辦法做到他的前提就是說我們政府可以協助他解決所有的用地、水電這些問題所以現在最主要是土地的問題那電的問題呢土地、電、水都需要解決還有我們生態的保育不能夠被破壞生態保育的問題\n\n19\n00:07:36,912 --> 00:08:01,389\n對這個生態保育就牽涉到環境影響評估這些事情對那主委那按照你這樣講嘛就是說因為現在我們也不確定說能不能解決土地水電的問題有可能它沒有辦法設廠那沒有辦法設廠那這個聚落外移到美國的可能性就很高因為你的前提你說不會掏空台灣的前提是建立在台積電未來可以很順利的設廠嘛所以就有很多的不確定性\n\n20\n00:08:02,503 --> 00:08:08,453\n對啊那他到國外市場也有很多不確定的但是因為像亞利桑那州他們那邊用電沒問題嘛\n\n21\n00:08:11,667 --> 00:08:31,033\n他那邊也需要當地政府要協助他所以他的問題可能比我們還…當地政府就有協助他而且還施加…還有壓力嘛所以他有去嘛那我們現在台灣是希望他留在這邊所以要幫他解決問題但是限於環境嘛土地啊電啊這些是但是…但是台灣的政府\n\n22\n00:08:33,093 --> 00:08:54,078\n過去的這個時機我們協助台積電台灣政府效率是遠比國外的政府效率還要高但是因為有時候就是土地台灣土地的問題電的問題我絕對是肯定國科會積極協助台積電我是說是物理環境的限制接下來我想跟主委請教一下\n\n23\n00:08:54,978 --> 00:09:07,476\n因為這個是3月13號美國一個外交事務的一個期刊它是一個喬治城大學的教授跟一個美國戰略暨國際研究中心共同發表的裡面提到就是說\n\n24\n00:09:08,766 --> 00:09:29,524\n怎麼樣強化台灣跟美國就是說他是說美國必須要協助台灣因應中國的灰色地帶戰術啦其中提到台灣應該要發展自己的低軌衛星通訊環境那當然他是寫給可能美國政府的建議啦就是說希望美國來協助那我其實我們台灣自己也有發展嘛就在國客會底下\n\n25\n00:09:30,205 --> 00:09:57,976\n就是太空中心可是這個太空中心這個國家發射場址現在進度就有落後我們先看舊的計畫因為新的計畫還沒揭露我們先看舊的計畫舊的計畫是113年是去年應該要完成應該要選定國家發射場址的位置但就我了解好像還沒選定現在兩個地方在挑我們這個月底會確定這個月底會確定現在是說屏東跟台東挑一個是不是是那有沒有確定要挑哪個還沒\n\n26\n00:09:58,616 --> 00:10:23,785\n還沒有這要經過審議會經過審議會那現在國會會有比較傾向哪裡嗎我們審議會會才能公佈我勉強主委揭露啦但是因為現在看起來就是會延後嘛那好像我今年一月的時候是不是有提一個修正案出去有訂定一個新的新的完成國家發射長子建制計畫是不是本來是訂119年啦\n\n27\n00:10:25,663 --> 00:10:43,528\n那新的計畫,新的大概是還是一樣我們時程一樣還是一樣119年完成目前時程一樣還是一樣那你1月份遞出的修正案的內容如果沒有改時程的話只有本來是去年年底可是因為經過當地的這個溝通\n\n28\n00:10:47,229 --> 00:11:10,229\n因為要跟兩個村就是南田村跟屏東的九盆村要跟居民溝通等等那個花了一些時間還有很多意見他們提出來的意見收集完以後我們的委員還要到現場去訪視所以拖了一點時間但是我們已經確定這個月底省議會會開會會通過然後119年就會完成國家發射場建制\n\n29\n00:11:14,272 --> 00:11:33,152\n而且會執行兩次陸軌火箭發射活動確定如果預算確定的話預算確定的話就會確定最後很簡單問一個問題因為那個川普啊他有砍了一些研究機構的預算嘛所以這你知道嗎你有在關注這件事嗎我知道那個\n\n30\n00:11:36,331 --> 00:11:54,620\n那譬如說像他有篩檢的美國國家衛生院給一些美國大學研究經費那有一些學校已經開始凍結教職員的人士招聘了那剛好我覺得這個機會啦這個國科會因為也都有計畫嘛在招攬外國籍的科技人才我不知道國科會有沒有針對\n\n31\n00:11:56,950 --> 00:12:16,718\n針對就是美國的這些變化你沒有看準的這個機會要把一些美國優秀人才把他招募到台灣來委員這個建議很好我會鼓勵我們所有的學研機構利用這個機會好好去邀請好的人才國際人才到台灣來這是很好的建議OK好謝謝謝謝葉元之委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t13021\t麻煩請國會主委謝謝請國會主委被質詢謝謝葉委員好主委好\n26653\t52242\t好 主委那個我也是持續想問一下台積電的問題因為主委之前有提到就是因為台積電的前瞻製程通通都在製造研發都在跟流台灣所以不用貪心會掏空台灣也不會變成美積電這樣講法是多慮的當然我們希望是這樣希望是這樣但因為市場上包括很多專家學者都有提出相關疑慮譬如說\n53522\t80418\t台積電的前研發處長他就提到他的分析他說台積電的先進製程落地在美國那他擔心說美國會逼台積電把技術移轉或者是把它分割成兩家公司那為什麼呢因為很可能就是到時候美國會把台積電的一些製程用在比如說國防工業上面所以美國可能會希望說直接可以\n81358\t106530\t變成美國公司那我不知道主委你對於這個看法是怎樣我想台積電到美國投資主要是因應當地市場的需求我知道主委我想有些東西我們都有共識他會怎麼去一定有他的考量因應客戶在那邊或者是他可能因應未來可能關稅會提高他做出最理性的選擇但我們現在其實擔心的不是\n107470\t133388\t他美國怎麼樣我們現在思考的是那台積電他到了美國之後對於台灣產業跟國安的影響我是說從這個角度那因為主委之前的言論都比較樂觀然後就覺得說台積電到美國好像不會怎麼樣跟對台灣不會有太大的影響那我現在只是說這樣的評估是過於樂觀嗎還是說您是真的有經過相關的分析才得到這樣的結論\n134937\t161054\t委員剛剛提到有一點我們倒是沒有明確的去談這個議題就是說台積電在美國設的廠會不會有些產品它在台灣是不會做的那可能會有因為包含美國自己國防機密的一些晶片它可能不希望是台積電在台灣的廠做要在美國的廠做類似這種東西是合理的是有可能的那這一點當然我們也不會在這種\n163035\t186319\t可能發展的狀況之下台灣也不會去擔心這個事為什麼因為它不是我們的敵對國家那在台灣我們也可能會有自己我們國防需求的經驗也是在我們台灣的產作我們也不希望它在外國的產作你看台積電前研發處長就說他其實擔心美國會把台積電要求技術轉移或分割兩個公司就變美積電這個是那個處長講的\n189620\t217797\t技術轉移的部分我剛剛其實跟其他委員也有提到技術分兩部分一部分就是公開的像專利那些東西那大家都可以去學可以去做但是那個是需要授權因為是商業的行為他如果願意授權給別人我跟你講主任因為這個越講越細其實我只是說好像感覺上您非常樂觀但是在業界或市場上面大家其實有很多不同的看法\n218237\t234793\t我樂觀的原因是因為我們台灣不能夠自詡說台灣的這個科技研發是全世界領先的絕對不是我們在半導體領域其實還有很多希望跟全世界各國先進國家來學習的合作那好那這樣我再問再具體一點那你覺得台積電到美國去投資對台灣的產業會有什麼影響嗎\n239637\t256527\t對台灣產業是好的啊是好的是好的就是說因為半導體的市場是在增加在增加當中所以光靠台灣作為製造基地是不夠的那主委請問一下因為那個亞利桑那州州長馬上就要來台灣了嘛這是你知道嘛\n257808\t273104\t那也有傳出說他是不是也會來拜訪一些台積電的供應商然後會希望他們到美國投資然後在亞利桑那州可能成立一個半導體的聚落那這個部分國科會有掌握嗎\n274665\t295797\t這部分我們還沒有接到相關的訊息但是台灣的這個台積電它本身台灣這個供應鏈會不會到美國去當然也取決於說他們去到底是會賺錢還是會虧本那當地的政府能夠提供什麼樣的誘因那在包含關稅的這個影響還有那個當地的這個市場的這個拉力等等這個都影響到\n302000\t327135\t所以我們其實大家會單線點在這邊嘛所以說剛剛台積電去之後供應鏈的整個移過去在那邊成立一個科技聚落之後那台灣這邊的投資會不會因為這樣子受到排擠嘛然後第二個就影響到就業的機會啊都不會 主委絕對都不會謝謝委員因為台積電在台灣還在擴敞當中那在台灣的而且他也幫台灣的這個供應鏈\n329336\t356454\t國科也在協助我們的科學園區也在幫台積電在台灣供應鏈的整合我們也在協助所以它供應鏈的投資在台灣也會增加至於我們的廠商是不是有機會變成國際級的公司也可以利用台積電在國外的投資它也可以擴大在當地招募人才在當地建立它的製造基地也會變成國際的公司我們期待是這樣的發展\n357495\t384334\t那這樣子的話我們也希望美國政府也要協助他不管是聯邦政府還是州政府當地的這個政府如果他們有足夠誘因廠商我們是政府不會去逼他嘛那一定是有誘因他才會你的意思是說因為台積電在台灣還有持續在擴廠所以不會有產業外移的狀況那請問一下因為上一次魏哲嘉在總統府開記者會的時候他有提到希望政府幫他解決用地跟用電的問題\n386175\t398440\t那之前更有提到就是說台積電未來希望在台灣一年設一個新的廠然後在各縣市那國會的掌握是怎麼樣現在用電跟用地都沒問題嗎針對協助台積電設廠的部分\n401314\t429220\t我當然不能講沒問題因為還有很多困難要克服有哪些困難要克服當然土地的取得現在台灣土地很寶貴土地我們規劃要取得都要經過我們正常的程序要做環境影響評估你現在是要協助他在哪裡取得用地遇到困難那個我還不能透露不能透露不能透露因為這個規劃的過程當中那會不會有可能因為那個用地取得不了影響到他的社長\n430340\t454951\t有可能所以之前承諾說以後會在台灣增加生產線一年設一場可能沒有辦法做到他的前提就是說我們政府可以協助他解決所有的用地、水電這些問題所以現在最主要是土地的問題那電的問題呢土地、電、水都需要解決還有我們生態的保育不能夠被破壞生態保育的問題\n456912\t481389\t對 這個生態保育就牽涉到環境影響評估這些事情對 那主委 那按照你這樣講嘛就是說因為現在我們也不確定說能不能解決土地 水 電的問題有可能它沒有辦法設廠那沒有辦法設廠 那這個聚落外移到美國的可能性就很高因為你的前提 你說不會掏空台灣的前提是建立在台積電未來可以很順利的設廠嘛所以就有很多的不確定性\n482503\t488453\t對啊那他到國外市場也有很多不確定的但是因為像亞利桑那州他們那邊用電沒問題嘛\n491667\t511033\t他那邊也需要當地政府要協助他所以他的問題可能比我們還…當地政府就有協助他而且還施加…還有壓力嘛所以他有去嘛那我們現在台灣是希望他留在這邊所以要幫他解決問題但是限於環境嘛土地啊 電啊 這些是 但是…但是台灣的政府\n513093\t534078\t過去的這個時機我們協助台積電台灣政府效率是遠比國外的政府效率還要高但是因為有時候就是土地 台灣土地的問題 電的問題我絕對是肯定國科會積極協助台積電我是說是物理環境的限制接下來我想跟主委請教一下\n534978\t547476\t因為這個是3月13號美國一個外交事務的一個期刊它是一個喬治城大學的教授跟一個美國戰略暨國際研究中心共同發表的裡面提到就是說\n548766\t569524\t怎麼樣強化台灣跟美國 就是說他是說美國必須要協助台灣因應中國的灰色地帶戰術啦其中提到台灣應該要發展自己的低軌衛星通訊環境那當然他是寫給可能美國政府的建議啦就是說希望美國來協助那我其實我們台灣自己也有發展嘛就在國客會底下\n570205\t597976\t就是太空中心可是這個太空中心這個國家發射場址現在進度就有落後我們先看舊的計畫因為新的計畫還沒揭露我們先看舊的計畫舊的計畫是113年是去年應該要完成應該要選定國家發射場址的位置但就我了解好像還沒選定現在兩個地方在挑我們這個月底會確定這個月底會確定現在是說屏東跟台東挑一個是不是是那有沒有確定要挑哪個 還沒\n598616\t623785\t還沒有 這要經過審議會經過審議會那現在國會會有比較傾向哪裡嗎我們審議會會才能公佈我勉強主委揭露啦但是因為現在看起來就是會延後嘛那好像我今年一月的時候是不是有提一個修正案出去有訂定一個新的新的完成國家發射長子建制計畫是不是本來是訂119年啦\n625663\t643528\t那新的計畫,新的大概是還是一樣我們時程一樣還是一樣119年完成目前時程一樣還是一樣那你1月份遞出的修正案的內容如果沒有改時程的話只有本來是去年年底可是因為經過當地的這個溝通\n647229\t670229\t因為要跟兩個村 就是南田村跟屏東的九盆村要跟居民溝通等等 那個花了一些時間還有很多意見 他們提出來的意見收集完以後我們的委員還要到現場去訪視 所以拖了一點時間但是我們已經確定這個月底 省議會會開會會通過然後119年就會完成國家發射場建制\n674272\t693152\t而且會執行兩次陸軌火箭發射活動確定如果預算確定的話預算確定的話就會確定最後很簡單問一個問題因為那個川普啊他有砍了一些研究機構的預算嘛所以這你知道嗎你有在關注這件事嗎我知道那個\n696331\t714620\t那譬如說像他有篩檢的美國國家衛生院給一些美國大學研究經費那有一些學校已經開始凍結教職員的人士招聘了那剛好我覺得這個機會啦這個國科會因為也都有計畫嘛在招攬外國籍的科技人才我不知道國科會有沒有針對\n716950\t736718\t針對就是美國的這些變化你沒有看準的這個機會要把一些美國優秀人才把他招募到台灣來委員 這個建議很好我會鼓勵我們所有的學研機構利用這個機會好好去邀請好的人才 國際人才到台灣來這是很好的建議OK 好 謝謝謝謝葉元之委員質詢\n","txt":"麻煩請國會主委謝謝請國會主委被質詢謝謝葉委員好主委好\n好 主委那個我也是持續想問一下台積電的問題因為主委之前有提到就是因為台積電的前瞻製程通通都在製造研發都在跟流台灣所以不用貪心會掏空台灣也不會變成美積電這樣講法是多慮的當然我們希望是這樣希望是這樣但因為市場上包括很多專家學者都有提出相關疑慮譬如說\n台積電的前研發處長他就提到他的分析他說台積電的先進製程落地在美國那他擔心說美國會逼台積電把技術移轉或者是把它分割成兩家公司那為什麼呢因為很可能就是到時候美國會把台積電的一些製程用在比如說國防工業上面所以美國可能會希望說直接可以\n變成美國公司那我不知道主委你對於這個看法是怎樣我想台積電到美國投資主要是因應當地市場的需求我知道主委我想有些東西我們都有共識他會怎麼去一定有他的考量因應客戶在那邊或者是他可能因應未來可能關稅會提高他做出最理性的選擇但我們現在其實擔心的不是\n他美國怎麼樣我們現在思考的是那台積電他到了美國之後對於台灣產業跟國安的影響我是說從這個角度那因為主委之前的言論都比較樂觀然後就覺得說台積電到美國好像不會怎麼樣跟對台灣不會有太大的影響那我現在只是說這樣的評估是過於樂觀嗎還是說您是真的有經過相關的分析才得到這樣的結論\n委員剛剛提到有一點我們倒是沒有明確的去談這個議題就是說台積電在美國設的廠會不會有些產品它在台灣是不會做的那可能會有因為包含美國自己國防機密的一些晶片它可能不希望是台積電在台灣的廠做要在美國的廠做類似這種東西是合理的是有可能的那這一點當然我們也不會在這種\n可能發展的狀況之下台灣也不會去擔心這個事為什麼因為它不是我們的敵對國家那在台灣我們也可能會有自己我們國防需求的經驗也是在我們台灣的產作我們也不希望它在外國的產作你看台積電前研發處長就說他其實擔心美國會把台積電要求技術轉移或分割兩個公司就變美積電這個是那個處長講的\n技術轉移的部分我剛剛其實跟其他委員也有提到技術分兩部分一部分就是公開的像專利那些東西那大家都可以去學可以去做但是那個是需要授權因為是商業的行為他如果願意授權給別人我跟你講主任因為這個越講越細其實我只是說好像感覺上您非常樂觀但是在業界或市場上面大家其實有很多不同的看法\n我樂觀的原因是因為我們台灣不能夠自詡說台灣的這個科技研發是全世界領先的絕對不是我們在半導體領域其實還有很多希望跟全世界各國先進國家來學習的合作那好那這樣我再問再具體一點那你覺得台積電到美國去投資對台灣的產業會有什麼影響嗎\n對台灣產業是好的啊是好的是好的就是說因為半導體的市場是在增加在增加當中所以光靠台灣作為製造基地是不夠的那主委請問一下因為那個亞利桑那州州長馬上就要來台灣了嘛這是你知道嘛\n那也有傳出說他是不是也會來拜訪一些台積電的供應商然後會希望他們到美國投資然後在亞利桑那州可能成立一個半導體的聚落那這個部分國科會有掌握嗎\n這部分我們還沒有接到相關的訊息但是台灣的這個台積電它本身台灣這個供應鏈會不會到美國去當然也取決於說他們去到底是會賺錢還是會虧本那當地的政府能夠提供什麼樣的誘因那在包含關稅的這個影響還有那個當地的這個市場的這個拉力等等這個都影響到\n所以我們其實大家會單線點在這邊嘛所以說剛剛台積電去之後供應鏈的整個移過去在那邊成立一個科技聚落之後那台灣這邊的投資會不會因為這樣子受到排擠嘛然後第二個就影響到就業的機會啊都不會 主委絕對都不會謝謝委員因為台積電在台灣還在擴敞當中那在台灣的而且他也幫台灣的這個供應鏈\n國科也在協助我們的科學園區也在幫台積電在台灣供應鏈的整合我們也在協助所以它供應鏈的投資在台灣也會增加至於我們的廠商是不是有機會變成國際級的公司也可以利用台積電在國外的投資它也可以擴大在當地招募人才在當地建立它的製造基地也會變成國際的公司我們期待是這樣的發展\n那這樣子的話我們也希望美國政府也要協助他不管是聯邦政府還是州政府當地的這個政府如果他們有足夠誘因廠商我們是政府不會去逼他嘛那一定是有誘因他才會你的意思是說因為台積電在台灣還有持續在擴廠所以不會有產業外移的狀況那請問一下因為上一次魏哲嘉在總統府開記者會的時候他有提到希望政府幫他解決用地跟用電的問題\n那之前更有提到就是說台積電未來希望在台灣一年設一個新的廠然後在各縣市那國會的掌握是怎麼樣現在用電跟用地都沒問題嗎針對協助台積電設廠的部分\n我當然不能講沒問題因為還有很多困難要克服有哪些困難要克服當然土地的取得現在台灣土地很寶貴土地我們規劃要取得都要經過我們正常的程序要做環境影響評估你現在是要協助他在哪裡取得用地遇到困難那個我還不能透露不能透露不能透露因為這個規劃的過程當中那會不會有可能因為那個用地取得不了影響到他的社長\n有可能所以之前承諾說以後會在台灣增加生產線一年設一場可能沒有辦法做到他的前提就是說我們政府可以協助他解決所有的用地、水電這些問題所以現在最主要是土地的問題那電的問題呢土地、電、水都需要解決還有我們生態的保育不能夠被破壞生態保育的問題\n對 這個生態保育就牽涉到環境影響評估這些事情對 那主委 那按照你這樣講嘛就是說因為現在我們也不確定說能不能解決土地 水 電的問題有可能它沒有辦法設廠那沒有辦法設廠 那這個聚落外移到美國的可能性就很高因為你的前提 你說不會掏空台灣的前提是建立在台積電未來可以很順利的設廠嘛所以就有很多的不確定性\n對啊那他到國外市場也有很多不確定的但是因為像亞利桑那州他們那邊用電沒問題嘛\n他那邊也需要當地政府要協助他所以他的問題可能比我們還…當地政府就有協助他而且還施加…還有壓力嘛所以他有去嘛那我們現在台灣是希望他留在這邊所以要幫他解決問題但是限於環境嘛土地啊 電啊 這些是 但是…但是台灣的政府\n過去的這個時機我們協助台積電台灣政府效率是遠比國外的政府效率還要高但是因為有時候就是土地 台灣土地的問題 電的問題我絕對是肯定國科會積極協助台積電我是說是物理環境的限制接下來我想跟主委請教一下\n因為這個是3月13號美國一個外交事務的一個期刊它是一個喬治城大學的教授跟一個美國戰略暨國際研究中心共同發表的裡面提到就是說\n怎麼樣強化台灣跟美國 就是說他是說美國必須要協助台灣因應中國的灰色地帶戰術啦其中提到台灣應該要發展自己的低軌衛星通訊環境那當然他是寫給可能美國政府的建議啦就是說希望美國來協助那我其實我們台灣自己也有發展嘛就在國客會底下\n就是太空中心可是這個太空中心這個國家發射場址現在進度就有落後我們先看舊的計畫因為新的計畫還沒揭露我們先看舊的計畫舊的計畫是113年是去年應該要完成應該要選定國家發射場址的位置但就我了解好像還沒選定現在兩個地方在挑我們這個月底會確定這個月底會確定現在是說屏東跟台東挑一個是不是是那有沒有確定要挑哪個 還沒\n還沒有 這要經過審議會經過審議會那現在國會會有比較傾向哪裡嗎我們審議會會才能公佈我勉強主委揭露啦但是因為現在看起來就是會延後嘛那好像我今年一月的時候是不是有提一個修正案出去有訂定一個新的新的完成國家發射長子建制計畫是不是本來是訂119年啦\n那新的計畫,新的大概是還是一樣我們時程一樣還是一樣119年完成目前時程一樣還是一樣那你1月份遞出的修正案的內容如果沒有改時程的話只有本來是去年年底可是因為經過當地的這個溝通\n因為要跟兩個村 就是南田村跟屏東的九盆村要跟居民溝通等等 那個花了一些時間還有很多意見 他們提出來的意見收集完以後我們的委員還要到現場去訪視 所以拖了一點時間但是我們已經確定這個月底 省議會會開會會通過然後119年就會完成國家發射場建制\n而且會執行兩次陸軌火箭發射活動確定如果預算確定的話預算確定的話就會確定最後很簡單問一個問題因為那個川普啊他有砍了一些研究機構的預算嘛所以這你知道嗎你有在關注這件事嗎我知道那個\n那譬如說像他有篩檢的美國國家衛生院給一些美國大學研究經費那有一些學校已經開始凍結教職員的人士招聘了那剛好我覺得這個機會啦這個國科會因為也都有計畫嘛在招攬外國籍的科技人才我不知道國科會有沒有針對\n針對就是美國的這些變化你沒有看準的這個機會要把一些美國優秀人才把他招募到台灣來委員 這個建議很好我會鼓勵我們所有的學研機構利用這個機會好好去邀請好的人才 國際人才到台灣來這是很好的建議OK 好 謝謝謝謝葉元之委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:13.021\n麻煩請國會主委謝謝請國會主委被質詢謝謝葉委員好主委好\n\n00:26.653 --> 00:52.242\n好主委那個我也是持續想問一下台積電的問題因為主委之前有提到就是因為台積電的前瞻製程通通都在製造研發都在跟流台灣所以不用貪心會掏空台灣也不會變成美積電這樣講法是多慮的當然我們希望是這樣希望是這樣但因為市場上包括很多專家學者都有提出相關疑慮譬如說\n\n00:53.522 --> 01:20.418\n台積電的前研發處長他就提到他的分析他說台積電的先進製程落地在美國那他擔心說美國會逼台積電把技術移轉或者是把它分割成兩家公司那為什麼呢因為很可能就是到時候美國會把台積電的一些製程用在比如說國防工業上面所以美國可能會希望說直接可以\n\n01:21.358 --> 01:46.530\n變成美國公司那我不知道主委你對於這個看法是怎樣我想台積電到美國投資主要是因應當地市場的需求我知道主委我想有些東西我們都有共識他會怎麼去一定有他的考量因應客戶在那邊或者是他可能因應未來可能關稅會提高他做出最理性的選擇但我們現在其實擔心的不是\n\n01:47.470 --> 02:13.388\n他美國怎麼樣我們現在思考的是那台積電他到了美國之後對於台灣產業跟國安的影響我是說從這個角度那因為主委之前的言論都比較樂觀然後就覺得說台積電到美國好像不會怎麼樣跟對台灣不會有太大的影響那我現在只是說這樣的評估是過於樂觀嗎還是說您是真的有經過相關的分析才得到這樣的結論\n\n02:14.937 --> 02:41.054\n委員剛剛提到有一點我們倒是沒有明確的去談這個議題就是說台積電在美國設的廠會不會有些產品它在台灣是不會做的那可能會有因為包含美國自己國防機密的一些晶片它可能不希望是台積電在台灣的廠做要在美國的廠做類似這種東西是合理的是有可能的那這一點當然我們也不會在這種\n\n02:43.035 --> 03:06.319\n可能發展的狀況之下台灣也不會去擔心這個事為什麼因為它不是我們的敵對國家那在台灣我們也可能會有自己我們國防需求的經驗也是在我們台灣的產作我們也不希望它在外國的產作你看台積電前研發處長就說他其實擔心美國會把台積電要求技術轉移或分割兩個公司就變美積電這個是那個處長講的\n\n03:09.620 --> 03:37.797\n技術轉移的部分我剛剛其實跟其他委員也有提到技術分兩部分一部分就是公開的像專利那些東西那大家都可以去學可以去做但是那個是需要授權因為是商業的行為他如果願意授權給別人我跟你講主任因為這個越講越細其實我只是說好像感覺上您非常樂觀但是在業界或市場上面大家其實有很多不同的看法\n\n03:38.237 --> 03:54.793\n我樂觀的原因是因為我們台灣不能夠自詡說台灣的這個科技研發是全世界領先的絕對不是我們在半導體領域其實還有很多希望跟全世界各國先進國家來學習的合作那好那這樣我再問再具體一點那你覺得台積電到美國去投資對台灣的產業會有什麼影響嗎\n\n03:59.637 --> 04:16.527\n對台灣產業是好的啊是好的是好的就是說因為半導體的市場是在增加在增加當中所以光靠台灣作為製造基地是不夠的那主委請問一下因為那個亞利桑那州州長馬上就要來台灣了嘛這是你知道嘛\n\n04:17.808 --> 04:33.104\n那也有傳出說他是不是也會來拜訪一些台積電的供應商然後會希望他們到美國投資然後在亞利桑那州可能成立一個半導體的聚落那這個部分國科會有掌握嗎\n\n04:34.665 --> 04:55.797\n這部分我們還沒有接到相關的訊息但是台灣的這個台積電它本身台灣這個供應鏈會不會到美國去當然也取決於說他們去到底是會賺錢還是會虧本那當地的政府能夠提供什麼樣的誘因那在包含關稅的這個影響還有那個當地的這個市場的這個拉力等等這個都影響到\n\n05:02.000 --> 05:27.135\n所以我們其實大家會單線點在這邊嘛所以說剛剛台積電去之後供應鏈的整個移過去在那邊成立一個科技聚落之後那台灣這邊的投資會不會因為這樣子受到排擠嘛然後第二個就影響到就業的機會啊都不會主委絕對都不會謝謝委員因為台積電在台灣還在擴敞當中那在台灣的而且他也幫台灣的這個供應鏈\n\n05:29.336 --> 05:56.454\n國科也在協助我們的科學園區也在幫台積電在台灣供應鏈的整合我們也在協助所以它供應鏈的投資在台灣也會增加至於我們的廠商是不是有機會變成國際級的公司也可以利用台積電在國外的投資它也可以擴大在當地招募人才在當地建立它的製造基地也會變成國際的公司我們期待是這樣的發展\n\n05:57.495 --> 06:24.334\n那這樣子的話我們也希望美國政府也要協助他不管是聯邦政府還是州政府當地的這個政府如果他們有足夠誘因廠商我們是政府不會去逼他嘛那一定是有誘因他才會你的意思是說因為台積電在台灣還有持續在擴廠所以不會有產業外移的狀況那請問一下因為上一次魏哲嘉在總統府開記者會的時候他有提到希望政府幫他解決用地跟用電的問題\n\n06:26.175 --> 06:38.440\n那之前更有提到就是說台積電未來希望在台灣一年設一個新的廠然後在各縣市那國會的掌握是怎麼樣現在用電跟用地都沒問題嗎針對協助台積電設廠的部分\n\n06:41.314 --> 07:09.220\n我當然不能講沒問題因為還有很多困難要克服有哪些困難要克服當然土地的取得現在台灣土地很寶貴土地我們規劃要取得都要經過我們正常的程序要做環境影響評估你現在是要協助他在哪裡取得用地遇到困難那個我還不能透露不能透露不能透露因為這個規劃的過程當中那會不會有可能因為那個用地取得不了影響到他的社長\n\n07:10.340 --> 07:34.951\n有可能所以之前承諾說以後會在台灣增加生產線一年設一場可能沒有辦法做到他的前提就是說我們政府可以協助他解決所有的用地、水電這些問題所以現在最主要是土地的問題那電的問題呢土地、電、水都需要解決還有我們生態的保育不能夠被破壞生態保育的問題\n\n07:36.912 --> 08:01.389\n對這個生態保育就牽涉到環境影響評估這些事情對那主委那按照你這樣講嘛就是說因為現在我們也不確定說能不能解決土地水電的問題有可能它沒有辦法設廠那沒有辦法設廠那這個聚落外移到美國的可能性就很高因為你的前提你說不會掏空台灣的前提是建立在台積電未來可以很順利的設廠嘛所以就有很多的不確定性\n\n08:02.503 --> 08:08.453\n對啊那他到國外市場也有很多不確定的但是因為像亞利桑那州他們那邊用電沒問題嘛\n\n08:11.667 --> 08:31.033\n他那邊也需要當地政府要協助他所以他的問題可能比我們還…當地政府就有協助他而且還施加…還有壓力嘛所以他有去嘛那我們現在台灣是希望他留在這邊所以要幫他解決問題但是限於環境嘛土地啊電啊這些是但是…但是台灣的政府\n\n08:33.093 --> 08:54.078\n過去的這個時機我們協助台積電台灣政府效率是遠比國外的政府效率還要高但是因為有時候就是土地台灣土地的問題電的問題我絕對是肯定國科會積極協助台積電我是說是物理環境的限制接下來我想跟主委請教一下\n\n08:54.978 --> 09:07.476\n因為這個是3月13號美國一個外交事務的一個期刊它是一個喬治城大學的教授跟一個美國戰略暨國際研究中心共同發表的裡面提到就是說\n\n09:08.766 --> 09:29.524\n怎麼樣強化台灣跟美國就是說他是說美國必須要協助台灣因應中國的灰色地帶戰術啦其中提到台灣應該要發展自己的低軌衛星通訊環境那當然他是寫給可能美國政府的建議啦就是說希望美國來協助那我其實我們台灣自己也有發展嘛就在國客會底下\n\n09:30.205 --> 09:57.976\n就是太空中心可是這個太空中心這個國家發射場址現在進度就有落後我們先看舊的計畫因為新的計畫還沒揭露我們先看舊的計畫舊的計畫是113年是去年應該要完成應該要選定國家發射場址的位置但就我了解好像還沒選定現在兩個地方在挑我們這個月底會確定這個月底會確定現在是說屏東跟台東挑一個是不是是那有沒有確定要挑哪個還沒\n\n09:58.616 --> 10:23.785\n還沒有這要經過審議會經過審議會那現在國會會有比較傾向哪裡嗎我們審議會會才能公佈我勉強主委揭露啦但是因為現在看起來就是會延後嘛那好像我今年一月的時候是不是有提一個修正案出去有訂定一個新的新的完成國家發射長子建制計畫是不是本來是訂119年啦\n\n10:25.663 --> 10:43.528\n那新的計畫,新的大概是還是一樣我們時程一樣還是一樣119年完成目前時程一樣還是一樣那你1月份遞出的修正案的內容如果沒有改時程的話只有本來是去年年底可是因為經過當地的這個溝通\n\n10:47.229 --> 11:10.229\n因為要跟兩個村就是南田村跟屏東的九盆村要跟居民溝通等等那個花了一些時間還有很多意見他們提出來的意見收集完以後我們的委員還要到現場去訪視所以拖了一點時間但是我們已經確定這個月底省議會會開會會通過然後119年就會完成國家發射場建制\n\n11:14.272 --> 11:33.152\n而且會執行兩次陸軌火箭發射活動確定如果預算確定的話預算確定的話就會確定最後很簡單問一個問題因為那個川普啊他有砍了一些研究機構的預算嘛所以這你知道嗎你有在關注這件事嗎我知道那個\n\n11:36.331 --> 11:54.620\n那譬如說像他有篩檢的美國國家衛生院給一些美國大學研究經費那有一些學校已經開始凍結教職員的人士招聘了那剛好我覺得這個機會啦這個國科會因為也都有計畫嘛在招攬外國籍的科技人才我不知道國科會有沒有針對\n\n11:56.950 --> 12:16.718\n針對就是美國的這些變化你沒有看準的這個機會要把一些美國優秀人才把他招募到台灣來委員這個建議很好我會鼓勵我們所有的學研機構利用這個機會好好去邀請好的人才國際人才到台灣來這是很好的建議OK好謝謝謝謝葉元之委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":13.021,"text":"麻煩請國會主委謝謝請國會主委被質詢謝謝葉委員好主委好"},{"start":26.653,"end":52.242,"text":"好 主委那個我也是持續想問一下台積電的問題因為主委之前有提到就是因為台積電的前瞻製程通通都在製造研發都在跟流台灣所以不用貪心會掏空台灣也不會變成美積電這樣講法是多慮的當然我們希望是這樣希望是這樣但因為市場上包括很多專家學者都有提出相關疑慮譬如說"},{"start":53.522,"end":80.418,"text":"台積電的前研發處長他就提到他的分析他說台積電的先進製程落地在美國那他擔心說美國會逼台積電把技術移轉或者是把它分割成兩家公司那為什麼呢因為很可能就是到時候美國會把台積電的一些製程用在比如說國防工業上面所以美國可能會希望說直接可以"},{"start":81.358,"end":106.53,"text":"變成美國公司那我不知道主委你對於這個看法是怎樣我想台積電到美國投資主要是因應當地市場的需求我知道主委我想有些東西我們都有共識他會怎麼去一定有他的考量因應客戶在那邊或者是他可能因應未來可能關稅會提高他做出最理性的選擇但我們現在其實擔心的不是"},{"start":107.47,"end":133.388,"text":"他美國怎麼樣我們現在思考的是那台積電他到了美國之後對於台灣產業跟國安的影響我是說從這個角度那因為主委之前的言論都比較樂觀然後就覺得說台積電到美國好像不會怎麼樣跟對台灣不會有太大的影響那我現在只是說這樣的評估是過於樂觀嗎還是說您是真的有經過相關的分析才得到這樣的結論"},{"start":134.937,"end":161.054,"text":"委員剛剛提到有一點我們倒是沒有明確的去談這個議題就是說台積電在美國設的廠會不會有些產品它在台灣是不會做的那可能會有因為包含美國自己國防機密的一些晶片它可能不希望是台積電在台灣的廠做要在美國的廠做類似這種東西是合理的是有可能的那這一點當然我們也不會在這種"},{"start":163.035,"end":186.319,"text":"可能發展的狀況之下台灣也不會去擔心這個事為什麼因為它不是我們的敵對國家那在台灣我們也可能會有自己我們國防需求的經驗也是在我們台灣的產作我們也不希望它在外國的產作你看台積電前研發處長就說他其實擔心美國會把台積電要求技術轉移或分割兩個公司就變美積電這個是那個處長講的"},{"start":189.62,"end":217.797,"text":"技術轉移的部分我剛剛其實跟其他委員也有提到技術分兩部分一部分就是公開的像專利那些東西那大家都可以去學可以去做但是那個是需要授權因為是商業的行為他如果願意授權給別人我跟你講主任因為這個越講越細其實我只是說好像感覺上您非常樂觀但是在業界或市場上面大家其實有很多不同的看法"},{"start":218.237,"end":234.793,"text":"我樂觀的原因是因為我們台灣不能夠自詡說台灣的這個科技研發是全世界領先的絕對不是我們在半導體領域其實還有很多希望跟全世界各國先進國家來學習的合作那好那這樣我再問再具體一點那你覺得台積電到美國去投資對台灣的產業會有什麼影響嗎"},{"start":239.637,"end":256.527,"text":"對台灣產業是好的啊是好的是好的就是說因為半導體的市場是在增加在增加當中所以光靠台灣作為製造基地是不夠的那主委請問一下因為那個亞利桑那州州長馬上就要來台灣了嘛這是你知道嘛"},{"start":257.808,"end":273.104,"text":"那也有傳出說他是不是也會來拜訪一些台積電的供應商然後會希望他們到美國投資然後在亞利桑那州可能成立一個半導體的聚落那這個部分國科會有掌握嗎"},{"start":274.665,"end":295.797,"text":"這部分我們還沒有接到相關的訊息但是台灣的這個台積電它本身台灣這個供應鏈會不會到美國去當然也取決於說他們去到底是會賺錢還是會虧本那當地的政府能夠提供什麼樣的誘因那在包含關稅的這個影響還有那個當地的這個市場的這個拉力等等這個都影響到"},{"start":302,"end":327.135,"text":"所以我們其實大家會單線點在這邊嘛所以說剛剛台積電去之後供應鏈的整個移過去在那邊成立一個科技聚落之後那台灣這邊的投資會不會因為這樣子受到排擠嘛然後第二個就影響到就業的機會啊都不會 主委絕對都不會謝謝委員因為台積電在台灣還在擴敞當中那在台灣的而且他也幫台灣的這個供應鏈"},{"start":329.336,"end":356.454,"text":"國科也在協助我們的科學園區也在幫台積電在台灣供應鏈的整合我們也在協助所以它供應鏈的投資在台灣也會增加至於我們的廠商是不是有機會變成國際級的公司也可以利用台積電在國外的投資它也可以擴大在當地招募人才在當地建立它的製造基地也會變成國際的公司我們期待是這樣的發展"},{"start":357.495,"end":384.334,"text":"那這樣子的話我們也希望美國政府也要協助他不管是聯邦政府還是州政府當地的這個政府如果他們有足夠誘因廠商我們是政府不會去逼他嘛那一定是有誘因他才會你的意思是說因為台積電在台灣還有持續在擴廠所以不會有產業外移的狀況那請問一下因為上一次魏哲嘉在總統府開記者會的時候他有提到希望政府幫他解決用地跟用電的問題"},{"start":386.175,"end":398.44,"text":"那之前更有提到就是說台積電未來希望在台灣一年設一個新的廠然後在各縣市那國會的掌握是怎麼樣現在用電跟用地都沒問題嗎針對協助台積電設廠的部分"},{"start":401.314,"end":429.22,"text":"我當然不能講沒問題因為還有很多困難要克服有哪些困難要克服當然土地的取得現在台灣土地很寶貴土地我們規劃要取得都要經過我們正常的程序要做環境影響評估你現在是要協助他在哪裡取得用地遇到困難那個我還不能透露不能透露不能透露因為這個規劃的過程當中那會不會有可能因為那個用地取得不了影響到他的社長"},{"start":430.34,"end":454.951,"text":"有可能所以之前承諾說以後會在台灣增加生產線一年設一場可能沒有辦法做到他的前提就是說我們政府可以協助他解決所有的用地、水電這些問題所以現在最主要是土地的問題那電的問題呢土地、電、水都需要解決還有我們生態的保育不能夠被破壞生態保育的問題"},{"start":456.912,"end":481.389,"text":"對 這個生態保育就牽涉到環境影響評估這些事情對 那主委 那按照你這樣講嘛就是說因為現在我們也不確定說能不能解決土地 水 電的問題有可能它沒有辦法設廠那沒有辦法設廠 那這個聚落外移到美國的可能性就很高因為你的前提 你說不會掏空台灣的前提是建立在台積電未來可以很順利的設廠嘛所以就有很多的不確定性"},{"start":482.503,"end":488.453,"text":"對啊那他到國外市場也有很多不確定的但是因為像亞利桑那州他們那邊用電沒問題嘛"},{"start":491.667,"end":511.033,"text":"他那邊也需要當地政府要協助他所以他的問題可能比我們還…當地政府就有協助他而且還施加…還有壓力嘛所以他有去嘛那我們現在台灣是希望他留在這邊所以要幫他解決問題但是限於環境嘛土地啊 電啊 這些是 但是…但是台灣的政府"},{"start":513.093,"end":534.078,"text":"過去的這個時機我們協助台積電台灣政府效率是遠比國外的政府效率還要高但是因為有時候就是土地 台灣土地的問題 電的問題我絕對是肯定國科會積極協助台積電我是說是物理環境的限制接下來我想跟主委請教一下"},{"start":534.978,"end":547.476,"text":"因為這個是3月13號美國一個外交事務的一個期刊它是一個喬治城大學的教授跟一個美國戰略暨國際研究中心共同發表的裡面提到就是說"},{"start":548.766,"end":569.524,"text":"怎麼樣強化台灣跟美國 就是說他是說美國必須要協助台灣因應中國的灰色地帶戰術啦其中提到台灣應該要發展自己的低軌衛星通訊環境那當然他是寫給可能美國政府的建議啦就是說希望美國來協助那我其實我們台灣自己也有發展嘛就在國客會底下"},{"start":570.205,"end":597.976,"text":"就是太空中心可是這個太空中心這個國家發射場址現在進度就有落後我們先看舊的計畫因為新的計畫還沒揭露我們先看舊的計畫舊的計畫是113年是去年應該要完成應該要選定國家發射場址的位置但就我了解好像還沒選定現在兩個地方在挑我們這個月底會確定這個月底會確定現在是說屏東跟台東挑一個是不是是那有沒有確定要挑哪個 還沒"},{"start":598.616,"end":623.785,"text":"還沒有 這要經過審議會經過審議會那現在國會會有比較傾向哪裡嗎我們審議會會才能公佈我勉強主委揭露啦但是因為現在看起來就是會延後嘛那好像我今年一月的時候是不是有提一個修正案出去有訂定一個新的新的完成國家發射長子建制計畫是不是本來是訂119年啦"},{"start":625.663,"end":643.528,"text":"那新的計畫,新的大概是還是一樣我們時程一樣還是一樣119年完成目前時程一樣還是一樣那你1月份遞出的修正案的內容如果沒有改時程的話只有本來是去年年底可是因為經過當地的這個溝通"},{"start":647.229,"end":670.229,"text":"因為要跟兩個村 就是南田村跟屏東的九盆村要跟居民溝通等等 那個花了一些時間還有很多意見 他們提出來的意見收集完以後我們的委員還要到現場去訪視 所以拖了一點時間但是我們已經確定這個月底 省議會會開會會通過然後119年就會完成國家發射場建制"},{"start":674.272,"end":693.152,"text":"而且會執行兩次陸軌火箭發射活動確定如果預算確定的話預算確定的話就會確定最後很簡單問一個問題因為那個川普啊他有砍了一些研究機構的預算嘛所以這你知道嗎你有在關注這件事嗎我知道那個"},{"start":696.331,"end":714.62,"text":"那譬如說像他有篩檢的美國國家衛生院給一些美國大學研究經費那有一些學校已經開始凍結教職員的人士招聘了那剛好我覺得這個機會啦這個國科會因為也都有計畫嘛在招攬外國籍的科技人才我不知道國科會有沒有針對"},{"start":716.95,"end":736.718,"text":"針對就是美國的這些變化你沒有看準的這個機會要把一些美國優秀人才把他招募到台灣來委員 這個建議很好我會鼓勵我們所有的學研機構利用這個機會好好去邀請好的人才 國際人才到台灣來這是很好的建議OK 好 謝謝謝謝葉元之委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":491,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時23分）麻煩請國科會主委，謝謝。"],["主席：請國科會主委備質詢，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：主委好。主委，我也是持續想問一下台積電的問題，主委之前有提到，因為台積電前瞻製程的製造、研發通通都根留臺灣，所以不用擔心會掏空臺灣，也不會變成美積電，這樣的講法是多慮了，當然我們希望是這樣，但市場上包括很多專家學者都有提出相關的疑慮。譬如說台積電的前研發處長就提到他的分析，他說台積電的先進製程落地在美國，他擔心美國會逼台積電把技術移轉或者是把它分割成兩家公司，為什麼呢？因為很可能到時候美國會把台積電的一些製程用在比如國防工業上面，所以美國可能會希望直接可以變成美國公司，我不知道主委對於這個看法是怎樣？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我想台積電到美國投資主要是因應當地市場的需求。"],["葉委員元之：這我知道。"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為它大部分……"],["葉委員元之：主委，有些東西我們都有共識，它為什麼去一定有它的考量，因應客戶在那邊或者是因應未來可能關稅會提高，它做出最理性的選擇。我們現在其實擔心的不是美國怎麼樣，我們現在思考的是台積電到了美國之後，對於臺灣產業跟國安的影響，我是說從這個角度。主委之前的言論都比較樂觀，覺得台積電到美國好像不會怎麼樣，對臺灣不會有太大的影響，我現在只是說這樣的評估是過於樂觀嗎？還是說您是真的經過相關的分析才得到這樣的結論？"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員剛剛提到，有一點我們倒是沒有明確去談這個議題，就是台積電在美國設的廠會不會有些產品在臺灣是不會做的，可能會有，因為包含美國自己一些國防機密的晶片，它可能不希望台積電在臺灣的廠做，要在美國的廠做。"],["葉委員元之：對啊！"],["吳主任委員誠文：類似這種東西是合理的、是有可能的，這一點當然我們在這種可能發展的狀況之下，臺灣也不會去擔心這個事，為什麼？因為它不是我們的敵對國家，在臺灣，我們也可能會有自己國防需求的晶片，也是在我們臺灣的廠做，我們也不希望它在國外的廠做。"],["葉委員元之：我知道，現在只是說，你看台積電前研發處長就說，他其實擔心美國會要求台積電技術轉移或分割兩個公司，就變成美積電，這是那個處長講的。"],["吳主任委員誠文：技術轉移的部分，我剛剛其實跟其他的委員也有提到，技術分兩部分，一部分就是公開的，像專利那些東西，大家都可以去學、可以去做，但是那個需要授權，因為是商業的行為，它如果願意授權給別人……"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，主委，這個越講越細啦，其實我只是說，好像感覺上您非常樂觀，但是在業界或市場上面，大家其實有很多不同的看法。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我樂觀的原因是因為我們臺灣不能夠自詡說臺灣的科技研發是全世界領先的，絕對不是，我們在半導體領域其實還有很多需要跟全世界各先進國家學習、合作。"],["葉委員元之：好，那這樣，我再問具體一點，你覺得台積電到美國去投資，對臺灣的產業會有什麼影響嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對臺灣產業是好的啊！"],["葉委員元之：是好的？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是好的，因為半導體的市場是在增加當中，所以光靠臺灣作為製造基地是不夠的。"],["葉委員元之：主委，請問一下，因為亞利桑那州州長馬上就要來臺灣了，這個你知道嘛！甚至有傳出說他是不是也會來拜訪一些台積電的供應商，會希望他們到美國投資，在亞利桑那州可能成立一個半導體的聚落，這個部分國科會有掌握嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這部分我們還沒有接到相關的訊息，但是台積電本身的臺灣供應鏈會不會到美國去，當然也取決於他們去到底是會賺錢還是會虧本，當地的政府能夠提供什麼樣的誘因，包含關稅的影響，還有當地市場的拉力等等，這個都會影響到廠商的投資。"],["葉委員元之：對，所以其實大家會擔心的點在這邊嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，所以……"],["葉委員元之：當台積電去之後，供應鏈整個移過去，在那邊成立一個科技聚落之後，臺灣這邊的投資會不會因為這樣子受到排擠？"],["吳主任委員誠文：臺灣不會……"],["葉委員元之：第二個就是影響到就業的機會，都不會？主委覺得都不會？"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員，因為台積電在臺灣還在擴廠當中，而且它也幫臺灣的供應鏈，國科會也在協助，我們的科學園區也幫台積電在臺灣供應鏈的整合，所以它對於供應鏈的投資在臺灣也會增加，至於我們的廠商是不是有機會變成國際級的公司，也可以利用台積電在國外的投資，擴大在當地招募人才，並建立它的製造基地，也會變成國際的公司，我們期待是這樣的發展，這樣子的話，我們希望美國政府也要協助它，不管是聯邦政府還是州政府，當地的政府如果有足夠誘因，我們政府不會去逼廠商，一定是有誘因它才會去。"],["葉委員元之：主委，你剛剛的意思是說，因為台積電在臺灣還有持續再擴廠，所以不會有產業外移的狀況？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葉委員元之：請問一下，上一次魏哲家在總統府開記者會的時候，他有提到希望政府幫他解決用地和用電的問題。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葉委員元之：之前更有提到台積電未來希望在臺灣一年設一個新的廠，然後在各縣市，國科會的掌握是怎麼樣？現在用電和用地都沒問題嗎？針對協助台積電設廠的部分。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我當然不能講沒問題，因為還有很多困難要克服。"],["葉委員元之：有哪些困難要克服？"],["吳主任委員誠文：當然，土地的取得，現在臺灣土地很寶貴。"],["葉委員元之：對。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們規劃取得土地都要經過正常的程序，要做環境影響評估……"],["葉委員元之：你現在是要協助它在哪裡取得用地遇到困難？"],["吳主任委員誠文：那個我還不能透露。"],["葉委員元之：不能透露？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不能透露，因為這個規劃的過程當中……"],["葉委員元之：會不會有可能因為那個用地取得不了，影響到它的設廠？"],["吳主任委員誠文：當然有可能。"],["葉委員元之：所以之前承諾說以後會在臺灣增加生產線，一年設一廠，可能沒有辦法做到？"],["吳主任委員誠文：它的前提是我們政府可以協助它解決所有的用地、水、電這些問題，所以政府要很努力。"],["葉委員元之：所以現在最主要是土地的問題，那電的問題呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：土地、電、水都需要解決……"],["葉委員元之：都有問題是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，還有我們生態的保育不能夠被破壞，生態保育的問題……"],["葉委員元之：環評……"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，生態保育就牽涉到環境影響評估這件事情。"],["葉委員元之：主委，按照你這樣講，因為現在我們也不確定能不能解決土地、水、電的問題，有可能它沒有辦法設廠，如果沒有辦法設廠，這個聚落外移到美國的可能性就很高，因為你說不會掏空臺灣的前提是建立在台積電未來可以很順利的設廠，所以就有很多的不確定性，對嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對啊！但它到國外設廠也有很多不確定性。"],["葉委員元之：像亞利桑那州它們那邊用電沒問題嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：那邊也需要當地政府協助它，所以它的問題可能比我們還大。"],["葉委員元之：當地政府就有協助它，而且還有施加壓力，所以它有去嘛！現在臺灣是希望它留在這邊，所以要幫它解決問題，但是限於環境、土地、電這些條件嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，但是臺灣的政府在過去的時機協助台積電，臺灣的政府效率是遠比國外的政府效率還要高哦！"],["葉委員元之：OK，但是有時候就是因為臺灣土地的問題、電的問題，我絕對肯定國科會積極協助台積電，我是說物理環境的限制。","接下來我想跟主委請教一下，在3月13號的美國外交事務期刊當中，有一位喬治城大學的教授跟一位美國戰略暨國際研究中心的教授共同發表專文，裡面提到怎麼樣強化臺灣跟美國……它是說美國必須要協助臺灣因應中國的灰色地帶戰術，其中提到臺灣應該要發展自己的低軌衛星通訊環境，當然它可能是寫給美國政府的建議，就是希望美國來協助。其實臺灣自己也有發展，就在國科會底下設立太空中心，可是太空中心的國家發射場址現在進度就有落後，我們先看舊的計畫，因為新的計畫還沒揭露，我們先看舊的計畫。舊的計畫是去年（113年）應該要選定國家發射場址的位置，但就我了解好像還沒選定，現在兩個地方在挑嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們這個月底會確定。"],["葉委員元之：這個月底會確定？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葉委員元之：現在是屏東跟臺東挑一個是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葉委員元之：有沒有確定要挑哪一個？還沒？"],["吳主任委員誠文：還沒有，這要經過審議會。"],["葉委員元之：經過審議會？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，要經過審議會。"],["葉委員元之：現在國科會有比較傾向哪裡嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們審議會會……"],["葉委員元之：才能公布？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，我不能事先……"],["葉委員元之：我不勉強主委揭露，但是因為現在看起來就是會延後，今年1月的時候是不是好像有提一個修正案出去，有訂定一個新的完成國家發射場址建置計畫是不是？本來是訂119年，新的計畫大概是……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們時程一樣。"],["葉委員元之：還是一樣119年會完成？"],["吳主任委員誠文：目前時程一樣。"],["葉委員元之：還是一樣？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對。"],["葉委員元之：那你1月分遞出修正案的內容如果沒有改時程的話……"],["吳主任委員誠文：本來是去年年底，可是因為經過與當地兩個村的溝通，就是南田村跟屏東九棚村，要跟居民溝通等等，那個花了一些時間，還有很多他們提出來的意見蒐集完以後，我們的委員還要到現場去訪視，所以拖了一點時間，但是我們已經確定這個月底審議會會開會決定。"],["葉委員元之：然後119年就會完成國家發射場建置，而且會執行兩次入軌火箭發射活動，確定嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：如果預算確定的話……"],["葉委員元之：預算確定的話就會確定是嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葉委員元之：最後很簡單問一個問題，川普他有砍了一些研究機構的預算，主委，你知道嗎？你有在關注這件事嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我知道。"],["葉委員元之：譬如他有削減美國國家衛生院給一些美國大學的研究經費，有一些學校已經開始凍結教職員的人事招聘了。剛好我覺得可以藉這個機會，因為國科會也都有計畫在招攬外國籍科技人才，我不知道國科會有沒有針對美國的這些變化，你們有沒有看準這個機會，要把一些美國的優秀人才招募到臺灣來？"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員這個建議很好，我會鼓勵我們所有的學研機構，利用這個機會好好去邀請好的國際人才到臺灣來，這是很好的建議。"],["葉委員元之：OK，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員的質詢，主委請回座，謝謝。","接著我們繼續進行質詢，請郭昱晴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":110,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-3","speakers":["葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","柯志恩","林沛祥","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","劉書彬","葉元之","郭昱晴","范雲","陳培瑜","萬美玲","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","賴士葆","林倩綺"],"page_start":49,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142901_00002"}}}