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00:00:35,261\n委員長好謝謝主委怎麼沒有人要救援你好金子獎那個業務單位好這個金子獎嘛這前幾天有新聞嘛那當然今天有很多委員在詢問主委嘛當然大家認為可能金子獎很重要才會被社會來討論我想請教一下金子獎去年跟今年去年的這個發包的決算跟今年的預算大概分別是多少我是請處理說明\n\n3\n00:00:45,811 --> 00:01:05,543\n謝謝委員那去年的決算大概是我們在他有兩部分一個是那個委員的審查費大概將近400萬然後再發包發包的費用大概也是將近500萬左右500萬所以加起來900那我們今年大概應該也是差不多的規模啦頂多都到\n\n4\n00:01:07,101 --> 00:01:31,270\n報告委員我們每年大概成長20%所以我們今年編的大概審查費跟發報費大概是各530萬那大概1000億以內嘛對不對好那今年的我們的業務費那大概就2億嘛那當然動50%那所以說我們實際上目前我們工程會實際能夠用的大概就是1億元嘛那也就是說在我們工程會的認知裡面我們在2億的預算裡面有1億的預算是\n\n5\n00:01:35,240 --> 00:02:01,858\n優先於這個金子獎的審查可以這樣理解嗎如果說我們不辦金子獎的話不是因為業務分在各處技術處、公管處、企劃處是同那個兩位你動了一半那各處都有各處的業務你如果把它挪用來辦金子獎相對排擠其他應辦業務包括重大公共建設的考核等等都會影響到優先順序的問題嘛你怕排擠到別人的所以金子獎\n\n6\n00:02:02,698 --> 00:02:18,816\n可能就是可能順序比較後面嘛也就是說我們今年有一億的預算你認為這一億的優先的順序就在排序的時候金子獎可能沒有在這一億裡面可能是在後面的一億所以你才會說金子獎可能不辦嘛不是這個意思\n\n7\n00:02:19,497 --> 00:02:29,308\n那你就那你就辦啊所有的業務會都在業務我們預算說明欄都有說明是公管數多少錢多少那個企劃數多少錢這個金職獎的說明是1060萬對說明在這裡了\n\n8\n00:02:34,434 --> 00:02:56,821\n去留用其他部會其他業務的預算就排擠其他嘛而且大院同意不同意解凍我們不知道我們就今天當作不解凍嘛對不對你們現在預期不解凍嘛委員認為已經確定不解凍我們要這樣講你們目前就是當作不解凍來說沒辦法辦嘛如果會解凍就會辦嘛對不對我們希望大院能夠盡速解凍\n\n9\n00:02:57,401 --> 00:03:25,126\n你會解凍就會辦嘛這沒有問題嘛對不對因為就按照你們的預算在編嘛就不知道什麼時候解凍對好那就是說我們在給你的一億裡面你不打算用這一億的經費來辦金子獎可以這樣子理解嗎不可以因為這一億裡面有其他業務要用對啊所以這一億裡面沒有要辦金子獎啊金子獎受影響是50%啊是啊受影響50%啊所以你一億裡面沒有要辦嘛你也不可能金子獎只辦一半吧\n\n10\n00:03:26,260 --> 00:03:52,227\n金職獎的確你要買就要辦要買就不辦吧沒有辦法說辦一辦要等著要報名啊所以就是辦跟不辦的差別嘛就是這一千萬你到底要不要花的差別嘛一千萬要花就是一千萬花一千萬不花就是一千萬不花嘛目前我們有一億的預算你不打算花這一千萬嗎是不是這樣理解大院何時解動大院凍結的不只金職獎的預算是所有的業務會凍結一半啦\n\n11\n00:03:54,248 --> 00:04:02,945\n凍結50%嘛對啊就可以看這每一個都凍50嘛因為其他業務也會受影響其他業務受影響是因為它很多所以50%你會去與你的優先順序嘛你會去凍你的優先順序啊\n\n12\n00:04:06,350 --> 00:04:20,915\n這個是大院到底要不要同意我們使用的問題不是我們能不能留用的問題所以好像每個東西都做一半那你議員你告訴我你現在的議員你要幹什麼我們其他的公共建設的審查或其他的議員還可以優先你講不講得出來議員你要拿來做什麼\n\n13\n00:04:24,076 --> 00:04:49,531\n一個部會都有他的預算實際的實際的我們公共建設的審查包括多少錢什麼項目多少錢這有辦法現在提供嗎我們會提供給你好啊那你就告訴在預算裡面我想你們經過仔細的審查我們都是對那個是兩億的狀況嘛對不對那現在你只有一億你會一億優先用在哪些項目我想知道嘛因為目前金子獎可能不辦嘛對不對那你其他東西就會把這一億花光嘛\n\n14\n00:04:50,540 --> 00:05:09,963\n不是一億發光這個一億就是其他業務都各使用一半的情況之下其他的業務也許可以這樣辦一半同意再來辦這個金職獎就一件事情而已現在要嘛辦接受報名然後做一些準備那如果說大院等到今年10月才同意解凍那我們還辦什麼金職獎\n\n15\n00:05:11,144 --> 00:05:21,714\n好沒關係那主委如果說你現在現場提不出來我們這一億目前的規劃要做什麼的話規劃很清楚在預算書裡面大院在審查的時候那是兩億的狀況嘛現在已經是一億嘛對不對那你就會後給我給個書面資料我們優先一億會用在哪些項目那你要說每個項目都50%我也可以接受啊\n\n16\n00:05:33,726 --> 00:06:02,175\n對不對這總是我要知道你50%你要怎麼花嘛我才會看後續的結凍案要怎麼結凍我們的預算使用每一個科目都很清楚而且委員應該有這個預算書啦有啊當然有啊但我不確定你我們沒有辦法跟委員報告說哪些要優先使用就是同商50%嘛對不對那我想知道在不結凍的情況下你50%會用在哪嗎就這麼簡單而已現在我可以跟委員報告其他的科目呢可以用一半但是靜止獎沒辦法用一半再來考量說大院要不要同意\n\n17\n00:06:02,415 --> 00:06:18,305\n好沒關係那就會後再給我明確的資料每一個細項好那另外我想確認一下就是解凍三層你們的因為當初是說三層嘛對不對剛剛主委也有一直強調這個院會的決議嘛你們要遵守那三層的部分其實現在也三月了啦你們大概用多少了我們我們業務費對業務費\n\n18\n00:06:30,689 --> 00:06:44,741\n所有的業務費你們用到多少了因為我們想知道就30%嘛對不對你現在用多少我們會遵照大院的決定使用30%我們就會嚴厲來提解凍案那我剛才說得很清楚\n\n19\n00:06:46,462 --> 00:07:05,335\n所以現在你們不確定現在動之幾趴了怎麼樣解凍我們還不知道大家原料我們沒關係這會後也可以給資料會後給資料你目前動之幾趴這對我們來說應該很重要啊因為你們30趴才能送嘛你們應該要很清楚現在動到幾趴結果現在花了多少錢好像也沒有辦法很明確的講因為如何解凍程序我們還沒辦法掌握啦\n\n20\n00:07:05,595 --> 00:07:29,500\n但我們都可以先準備嘛就包括你們的報告我們當然會準備都可以先準備包括委員的溝通也私底下都可以溝通嘛程序當然是到了哪時候都可以先走但是很多事情可以溝通的時候就先溝通嘛目前至少委還沒有接收到櫃會來跟我辦公室說要溝通後續的結婚的狀況嘛預算審查的時候在交通委內已經每個委員都有溝通而且交通委內已經審閉了如果說\n\n21\n00:07:32,202 --> 00:08:00,099\n就只講要不要辦我們還要再到大院兩百多個人所以你解通案就是直接送來你也不打算跟院會溝通嘛是不是你們也不打算再溝通嘛是不是溝通就是復議成功那個才是溝通因為你都已經決定是復議了所以到時候你們就直接行政院就送來然後就看你們立法院要不要過嘛就這樣子沒關係啦這個是那個這本來就是你們的權利嘛要不要溝通本來就是你們的權利嘛不是溝通不是要不要溝通你這個復議如果同意復議才有溝通的空間嘛\n\n22\n00:08:00,979 --> 00:08:20,281\n啊你都已經溝通不接受復議嘛不接受復議那個案就會報我指的是解凍案啊解凍案啊我指的是解凍案解凍案就是在預算案的主決議裡面就在預算的主決議裡面所以你不接受復議那就是那個那個案也是在那個主決議但是你後續還是要來解凍嘛對不對你還是會申請嘛\n\n23\n00:08:21,414 --> 00:08:38,877\n我們當然會遵照大院的指示到目前為止還沒有打算想溝通我想確認一下你們會不會有意見你不可以你認為你們不需要那沒關係這就是你們的態度我們還不理解怎麼行使這個解凍程序很多公共工程其實在\n\n24\n00:08:39,818 --> 00:09:07,121\n例行性的很多公共工程其實譬如說地方政府的地方道路的養護等等的他們不會等到預算過了才發包他們也不會等到譬如說今年一一四年度到了才發包他們可能都會在去年發包那並且在這個招標文件裡面可能說明這個預算就是有條件的嘛是預算通過後或者是我們是不是說付諸是預算解凍後來先行做這個相關的發包程序你們有這是\n\n25\n00:09:08,463 --> 00:09:17,440\n可不可以這樣做跟你們程序上可不可以這樣跟你們會不會這樣這兩個部分可以說明嗎有條件的決標是可以做的有條件決標可以做嗎所以說我們有打算要做嗎\n\n26\n00:09:19,668 --> 00:09:44,629\n這個是有錢的狀況之下我知道有預算已經有啦然後什麼時候解凍就可以花嘛對不對可是不知道會不會解凍所以你可以有條件大院沒有給我們一個能不能用啊所以我們如果掛那個條件結標掛有條件的結標你說可以嘛對不對可以但是錢在哪裡對所以你可以先招嘛但是就是錢在哪裡我沒有錢的情況之下沒有辦法辦理這個有條件的結標如果\n\n27\n00:09:45,531 --> 00:09:46,735\n如果給你錢了你還有條件幹嘛啦就是你還不確定你有沒有錢的情況下才是有條件啊\n\n28\n00:09:51,960 --> 00:10:19,241\n我們不是私人機關我們每一筆支出都要有預算都要大院同意所以所有的地方政府在預算還沒有過的情況下你剛剛說可以那現在好像又不行那個是預算通過了沒有通過預算沒有通過沒有人敢做這種決標啦他們都會預算沒有通過沒有一個政府敢做這種決標啦所以不能夠付諸嘛我想你如果待過議會你會知道對所以不能夠付諸我第一點就是跟主委確認這件事有預算\n\n29\n00:10:19,981 --> 00:10:33,616\n才能夠這種有條件的決標比方說我環評通過才來執行沒有說等預算通過再給所以有條件的範圍不包含預算我們預算不知道條件是可能其他條件不包含預算確定要有預算才能上網報告這個沒有人敢來標啦確定齁\n\n30\n00:10:35,678 --> 00:10:52,127\n確定所以是其他單位如果說以後看到相關的相關的這個有關預算的有條件我都報到工程會來那個條件是其他的條件我都來對對對這不是這個預算對對對我知道我清楚主委的意思就是其他的條件您剛剛講的可能環評之類的但是預算這一點公家機關絕對不行應該是這樣子嘛\n\n31\n00:10:54,045 --> 00:11:14,353\n因為他沒有預算沒有通過我印象中應該有一些所以我請教主委如果說我記錯了那可能是我記錯了如果說未來我再發現的話我再提供給主委那不好意思再用一點時間最後一個這個基隆捷運這個現在在交通部那主委不知道有沒有注意到相關的新聞原本的預算大概700億當初行政院核定那最後\n\n32\n00:11:16,315 --> 00:11:24,006\n地方政府評估到1200億嘛那最後如果說現在提到交通部的意思就是說你先按照700億當初核定的預算規模來報\n\n33\n00:11:25,890 --> 00:11:46,585\n來報交通部那交通部合了之後會送到工程會但實際上他可能會到用到一千二兩百億那我們工程會後續的意見會認為這個差距過大嗎希望他先提這個修正報告我指的修正報告就是那個整體的這個基隆捷運的修正報告再來工程會嗎還是說我們也可以先走那最後再來提修正報告\n\n34\n00:11:47,305 --> 00:12:04,133\n我們是審查他的基本設計啦這個基本設計當然牽涉到他這個費用吧也許是這個案是修正計畫是不是是修正計畫鐵道局建議整個工程經費核定了之後再提修正而且對他們希望今天按700億來提\n\n35\n00:12:05,376 --> 00:12:32,733\n那提我們就審他的基本設計啊你就審他700億嘛你不會針對整個計畫我們就針對工程項目有沒有合理來去審的現在中央政府大概錢的使用是受到很大的限制啦沒有我們是專業審查嘛對不對對OK好那我就確定一下我們不會因為700億跟1200億的差別造成審查上面這些我們就看交通部送什麼樣的基本設計我們就這個基本設計來審對好以上了解謝謝主委好謝謝主席好謝謝廖先祥委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4264\t10509\t好 謝謝主席 你要麻煩邀請我們陳主委好 陳主委問金子獎 相關的也可以一起上來\n13269\t35261\t委員長好 謝謝主委怎麼沒有人要救援你好 金子獎那個業務單位好 這個金子獎嘛這前幾天有新聞嘛那當然今天有很多委員在詢問主委嘛當然大家認為可能金子獎很重要才會被社會來討論我想請教一下金子獎去年跟今年去年的這個發包的決算跟今年的預算大概分別是多少我是請處理說明\n45811\t65543\t謝謝委員那去年的決算大概是我們在他有兩部分一個是那個委員的審查費大概將近400萬然後再發包發包的費用大概也是將近500萬左右500萬所以加起來900那我們今年大概應該也是差不多的規模啦頂多都到\n67101\t91270\t報告委員我們每年大概成長20%所以我們今年編的大概審查費跟發報費大概是各530萬那大概1000億以內嘛對不對好那今年的我們的業務費那大概就2億嘛那當然動50%那所以說我們實際上目前我們工程會實際能夠用的大概就是1億元嘛那也就是說在我們工程會的認知裡面我們在2億的預算裡面有1億的預算是\n95240\t121858\t優先於這個金子獎的審查可以這樣理解嗎如果說我們不辦金子獎的話不是因為業務分在各處技術處、公管處、企劃處是同那個兩位你動了一半那各處都有各處的業務你如果把它挪用來辦金子獎相對排擠其他應辦業務包括重大公共建設的考核等等都會影響到優先順序的問題嘛你怕排擠到別人的所以金子獎\n122698\t138816\t可能就是可能順序比較後面嘛也就是說我們今年有一億的預算你認為這一億的優先的順序就在排序的時候金子獎可能沒有在這一億裡面可能是在後面的一億所以你才會說金子獎可能不辦嘛不是這個意思\n139497\t149308\t那你就那你就辦啊所有的業務會都在業務我們預算說明欄都有說明是公管數多少錢多少那個企劃數多少錢這個金職獎的說明是1060萬對說明在這裡了\n154434\t176821\t去留用其他部會其他業務的預算就排擠其他嘛而且大院同意不同意解凍我們不知道我們就今天當作不解凍嘛對不對你們現在預期不解凍嘛委員認為已經確定不解凍我們要這樣講你們目前就是當作不解凍來說沒辦法辦嘛如果會解凍就會辦嘛對不對我們希望大院能夠盡速解凍\n177401\t205126\t你會解凍就會辦嘛這沒有問題嘛對不對因為就按照你們的預算在編嘛就不知道什麼時候解凍對好那就是說我們在給你的一億裡面你不打算用這一億的經費來辦金子獎可以這樣子理解嗎不可以因為這一億裡面有其他業務要用對啊所以這一億裡面沒有要辦金子獎啊金子獎受影響是50%啊是啊受影響50%啊所以你一億裡面沒有要辦嘛你也不可能金子獎只辦一半吧\n206260\t232227\t金職獎的確 你要買就要辦 要買就不辦吧沒有辦法說辦一辦 要等著要報名啊所以就是辦跟不辦的差別嘛就是這一千萬你到底要不要花的差別嘛一千萬要花就是一千萬花一千萬不花就是一千萬不花嘛目前我們有一億的預算你不打算花這一千萬嗎是不是這樣理解大院何時解動大院凍結的不只金職獎的預算是所有的業務會凍結一半啦\n234248\t242945\t凍結50%嘛對啊就可以看這每一個都凍50嘛因為其他業務也會受影響其他業務受影響是因為它很多所以50%你會去與你的優先順序嘛你會去凍你的優先順序啊\n246350\t260915\t這個是大院到底要不要同意我們使用的問題不是我們能不能留用的問題所以好像每個東西都做一半那你議員你告訴我你現在的議員你要幹什麼我們其他的公共建設的審查或其他的議員還可以優先你講不講得出來議員你要拿來做什麼\n264076\t289531\t一個部會都有他的預算實際的實際的我們公共建設的審查包括多少錢什麼項目多少錢這有辦法現在提供嗎我們會提供給你好啊那你就告訴在預算裡面我想你們經過仔細的審查我們都是對那個是兩億的狀況嘛對不對那現在你只有一億你會一億優先用在哪些項目我想知道嘛因為目前金子獎可能不辦嘛對不對那你其他東西就會把這一億花光嘛\n290540\t309963\t不是一億發光這個一億就是其他業務都各使用一半的情況之下其他的業務也許可以這樣辦一半同意再來辦這個金職獎就一件事情而已現在要嘛辦接受報名然後做一些準備那如果說大院等到今年10月才同意解凍那我們還辦什麼金職獎\n311144\t321714\t好沒關係那主委如果說你現在現場提不出來我們這一億目前的規劃要做什麼的話規劃很清楚在預算書裡面大院在審查的時候那是兩億的狀況嘛現在已經是一億嘛對不對那你就會後給我給個書面資料我們優先一億會用在哪些項目那你要說每個項目都50%我也可以接受啊\n333726\t362175\t對不對這總是我要知道你50%你要怎麼花嘛我才會看後續的結凍案要怎麼結凍我們的預算使用每一個科目都很清楚而且委員應該有這個預算書啦有啊當然有啊但我不確定你我們沒有辦法跟委員報告說哪些要優先使用就是同商50%嘛對不對那我想知道在不結凍的情況下你50%會用在哪嗎就這麼簡單而已現在我可以跟委員報告其他的科目呢可以用一半但是靜止獎沒辦法用一半再來考量說大院要不要同意\n362415\t378305\t好 沒關係 那就會後再給我明確的資料 每一個細項好 那另外我想確認一下 就是解凍三層你們的因為當初是說三層嘛 對不對 剛剛主委也有一直強調這個院會的決議嘛 你們要遵守那三層的部分 其實現在也三月了啦 你們大概用多少了我們我們 業務費 對 業務費\n390689\t404741\t所有的業務費你們用到多少了因為我們想知道就30%嘛對不對你現在用多少我們會遵照大院的決定使用30%我們就會嚴厲來提解凍案那我剛才說得很清楚\n406462\t425335\t所以現在你們不確定現在動之幾趴了怎麼樣解凍我們還不知道大家原料我們沒關係這會後也可以給資料會後給資料你目前動之幾趴這對我們來說應該很重要啊因為你們30趴才能送嘛你們應該要很清楚現在動到幾趴結果現在花了多少錢好像也沒有辦法很明確的講因為如何解凍程序我們還沒辦法掌握啦\n425595\t449500\t但我們都可以先準備嘛就包括你們的報告我們當然會準備都可以先準備包括委員的溝通也私底下都可以溝通嘛程序當然是到了哪時候都可以先走但是很多事情可以溝通的時候就先溝通嘛目前至少委還沒有接收到櫃會來跟我辦公室說要溝通後續的結婚的狀況嘛預算審查的時候在交通委內已經每個委員都有溝通而且交通委內已經審閉了如果說\n452202\t480099\t就只講要不要辦我們還要再到大院兩百多個人所以你解通案就是直接送來你也不打算跟院會溝通嘛是不是你們也不打算再溝通嘛是不是溝通就是復議成功那個才是溝通因為你都已經決定是復議了所以到時候你們就直接行政院就送來然後就看你們立法院要不要過嘛就這樣子沒關係啦這個是那個這本來就是你們的權利嘛要不要溝通本來就是你們的權利嘛不是溝通不是要不要溝通你這個復議如果同意復議才有溝通的空間嘛\n480979\t500281\t啊你都已經溝通不接受復議嘛不接受復議那個案就會報我指的是解凍案啊解凍案啊我指的是解凍案解凍案就是在預算案的主決議裡面就在預算的主決議裡面所以你不接受復議那就是那個那個案也是在那個主決議但是你後續還是要來解凍嘛對不對你還是會申請嘛\n501414\t518877\t我們當然會遵照大院的指示到目前為止還沒有打算想溝通我想確認一下你們會不會有意見你不可以你認為你們不需要那沒關係這就是你們的態度我們還不理解怎麼行使這個解凍程序很多公共工程其實在\n519818\t547121\t例行性的很多公共工程其實譬如說地方政府的地方道路的養護等等的他們不會等到預算過了才發包他們也不會等到譬如說今年一一四年度到了才發包他們可能都會在去年發包那並且在這個招標文件裡面可能說明這個預算就是有條件的嘛是預算通過後或者是我們是不是說付諸是預算解凍後來先行做這個相關的發包程序你們有這是\n548463\t557440\t可不可以這樣做跟你們程序上可不可以這樣跟你們會不會這樣這兩個部分可以說明嗎有條件的決標是可以做的有條件決標可以做嗎所以說我們有打算要做嗎\n559668\t584629\t這個是有錢的狀況之下我知道有預算已經有啦然後什麼時候解凍就可以花嘛對不對可是不知道會不會解凍所以你可以有條件大院沒有給我們一個能不能用啊所以我們如果掛那個條件結標掛有條件的結標你說可以嘛對不對可以但是錢在哪裡對所以你可以先招嘛但是就是錢在哪裡我沒有錢的情況之下沒有辦法辦理這個有條件的結標如果\n585531\t586735\t如果給你錢了你還有條件幹嘛啦就是你還不確定你有沒有錢的情況下才是有條件啊\n591960\t619241\t我們不是私人機關我們每一筆支出都要有預算都要大院同意所以所有的地方政府在預算還沒有過的情況下你剛剛說可以那現在好像又不行那個是預算通過了沒有通過預算沒有通過沒有人敢做這種決標啦他們都會預算沒有通過沒有一個政府敢做這種決標啦所以不能夠付諸嘛我想你如果待過議會你會知道對所以不能夠付諸我第一點就是跟主委確認這件事有預算\n619981\t633616\t才能夠這種有條件的決標比方說我環評通過才來執行沒有說等預算通過再給所以有條件的範圍不包含預算我們預算不知道條件是可能其他條件不包含預算確定要有預算才能上網報告這個沒有人敢來標啦確定齁\n635678\t652127\t確定所以是其他單位如果說以後看到相關的相關的這個有關預算的有條件我都報到工程會來那個條件是其他的條件我都來對對對這不是這個預算對對對我知道我清楚主委的意思就是其他的條件您剛剛講的可能環評之類的但是預算這一點公家機關絕對不行應該是這樣子嘛\n654045\t674353\t因為他沒有預算沒有通過我印象中應該有一些所以我請教主委如果說我記錯了那可能是我記錯了如果說未來我再發現的話我再提供給主委那不好意思再用一點時間最後一個這個基隆捷運這個現在在交通部那主委不知道有沒有注意到相關的新聞原本的預算大概700億當初行政院核定那最後\n676315\t684006\t地方政府評估到1200億嘛那最後如果說現在提到交通部的意思就是說你先按照700億當初核定的預算規模來報\n685890\t706585\t來報交通部那交通部合了之後會送到工程會但實際上他可能會到用到一千二兩百億那我們工程會後續的意見會認為這個差距過大嗎希望他先提這個修正報告我指的修正報告就是那個整體的這個基隆捷運的修正報告再來工程會嗎還是說我們也可以先走那最後再來提修正報告\n707305\t724133\t我們是審查他的基本設計啦這個基本設計當然牽涉到他這個費用吧也許是這個案是修正計畫是不是是修正計畫鐵道局建議整個工程經費核定了之後再提修正而且 對他們希望今天按700億來提\n725376\t752733\t那提我們就審他的基本設計啊你就審他700億嘛你不會針對整個計畫我們就針對工程項目有沒有合理來去審的現在中央政府大概錢的使用是受到很大的限制啦沒有我們是專業審查嘛對不對對OK好那我就確定一下我們不會因為700億跟1200億的差別造成審查上面這些我們就看交通部送什麼樣的基本設計我們就這個基本設計來審對好以上了解謝謝主委好謝謝主席好謝謝廖先祥委員\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 你要麻煩邀請我們陳主委好 陳主委問金子獎 相關的也可以一起上來\n委員長好 謝謝主委怎麼沒有人要救援你好 金子獎那個業務單位好 這個金子獎嘛這前幾天有新聞嘛那當然今天有很多委員在詢問主委嘛當然大家認為可能金子獎很重要才會被社會來討論我想請教一下金子獎去年跟今年去年的這個發包的決算跟今年的預算大概分別是多少我是請處理說明\n謝謝委員那去年的決算大概是我們在他有兩部分一個是那個委員的審查費大概將近400萬然後再發包發包的費用大概也是將近500萬左右500萬所以加起來900那我們今年大概應該也是差不多的規模啦頂多都到\n報告委員我們每年大概成長20%所以我們今年編的大概審查費跟發報費大概是各530萬那大概1000億以內嘛對不對好那今年的我們的業務費那大概就2億嘛那當然動50%那所以說我們實際上目前我們工程會實際能夠用的大概就是1億元嘛那也就是說在我們工程會的認知裡面我們在2億的預算裡面有1億的預算是\n優先於這個金子獎的審查可以這樣理解嗎如果說我們不辦金子獎的話不是因為業務分在各處技術處、公管處、企劃處是同那個兩位你動了一半那各處都有各處的業務你如果把它挪用來辦金子獎相對排擠其他應辦業務包括重大公共建設的考核等等都會影響到優先順序的問題嘛你怕排擠到別人的所以金子獎\n可能就是可能順序比較後面嘛也就是說我們今年有一億的預算你認為這一億的優先的順序就在排序的時候金子獎可能沒有在這一億裡面可能是在後面的一億所以你才會說金子獎可能不辦嘛不是這個意思\n那你就那你就辦啊所有的業務會都在業務我們預算說明欄都有說明是公管數多少錢多少那個企劃數多少錢這個金職獎的說明是1060萬對說明在這裡了\n去留用其他部會其他業務的預算就排擠其他嘛而且大院同意不同意解凍我們不知道我們就今天當作不解凍嘛對不對你們現在預期不解凍嘛委員認為已經確定不解凍我們要這樣講你們目前就是當作不解凍來說沒辦法辦嘛如果會解凍就會辦嘛對不對我們希望大院能夠盡速解凍\n你會解凍就會辦嘛這沒有問題嘛對不對因為就按照你們的預算在編嘛就不知道什麼時候解凍對好那就是說我們在給你的一億裡面你不打算用這一億的經費來辦金子獎可以這樣子理解嗎不可以因為這一億裡面有其他業務要用對啊所以這一億裡面沒有要辦金子獎啊金子獎受影響是50%啊是啊受影響50%啊所以你一億裡面沒有要辦嘛你也不可能金子獎只辦一半吧\n金職獎的確 你要買就要辦 要買就不辦吧沒有辦法說辦一辦 要等著要報名啊所以就是辦跟不辦的差別嘛就是這一千萬你到底要不要花的差別嘛一千萬要花就是一千萬花一千萬不花就是一千萬不花嘛目前我們有一億的預算你不打算花這一千萬嗎是不是這樣理解大院何時解動大院凍結的不只金職獎的預算是所有的業務會凍結一半啦\n凍結50%嘛對啊就可以看這每一個都凍50嘛因為其他業務也會受影響其他業務受影響是因為它很多所以50%你會去與你的優先順序嘛你會去凍你的優先順序啊\n這個是大院到底要不要同意我們使用的問題不是我們能不能留用的問題所以好像每個東西都做一半那你議員你告訴我你現在的議員你要幹什麼我們其他的公共建設的審查或其他的議員還可以優先你講不講得出來議員你要拿來做什麼\n一個部會都有他的預算實際的實際的我們公共建設的審查包括多少錢什麼項目多少錢這有辦法現在提供嗎我們會提供給你好啊那你就告訴在預算裡面我想你們經過仔細的審查我們都是對那個是兩億的狀況嘛對不對那現在你只有一億你會一億優先用在哪些項目我想知道嘛因為目前金子獎可能不辦嘛對不對那你其他東西就會把這一億花光嘛\n不是一億發光這個一億就是其他業務都各使用一半的情況之下其他的業務也許可以這樣辦一半同意再來辦這個金職獎就一件事情而已現在要嘛辦接受報名然後做一些準備那如果說大院等到今年10月才同意解凍那我們還辦什麼金職獎\n好沒關係那主委如果說你現在現場提不出來我們這一億目前的規劃要做什麼的話規劃很清楚在預算書裡面大院在審查的時候那是兩億的狀況嘛現在已經是一億嘛對不對那你就會後給我給個書面資料我們優先一億會用在哪些項目那你要說每個項目都50%我也可以接受啊\n對不對這總是我要知道你50%你要怎麼花嘛我才會看後續的結凍案要怎麼結凍我們的預算使用每一個科目都很清楚而且委員應該有這個預算書啦有啊當然有啊但我不確定你我們沒有辦法跟委員報告說哪些要優先使用就是同商50%嘛對不對那我想知道在不結凍的情況下你50%會用在哪嗎就這麼簡單而已現在我可以跟委員報告其他的科目呢可以用一半但是靜止獎沒辦法用一半再來考量說大院要不要同意\n好 沒關係 那就會後再給我明確的資料 每一個細項好 那另外我想確認一下 就是解凍三層你們的因為當初是說三層嘛 對不對 剛剛主委也有一直強調這個院會的決議嘛 你們要遵守那三層的部分 其實現在也三月了啦 你們大概用多少了我們我們 業務費 對 業務費\n所有的業務費你們用到多少了因為我們想知道就30%嘛對不對你現在用多少我們會遵照大院的決定使用30%我們就會嚴厲來提解凍案那我剛才說得很清楚\n所以現在你們不確定現在動之幾趴了怎麼樣解凍我們還不知道大家原料我們沒關係這會後也可以給資料會後給資料你目前動之幾趴這對我們來說應該很重要啊因為你們30趴才能送嘛你們應該要很清楚現在動到幾趴結果現在花了多少錢好像也沒有辦法很明確的講因為如何解凍程序我們還沒辦法掌握啦\n但我們都可以先準備嘛就包括你們的報告我們當然會準備都可以先準備包括委員的溝通也私底下都可以溝通嘛程序當然是到了哪時候都可以先走但是很多事情可以溝通的時候就先溝通嘛目前至少委還沒有接收到櫃會來跟我辦公室說要溝通後續的結婚的狀況嘛預算審查的時候在交通委內已經每個委員都有溝通而且交通委內已經審閉了如果說\n就只講要不要辦我們還要再到大院兩百多個人所以你解通案就是直接送來你也不打算跟院會溝通嘛是不是你們也不打算再溝通嘛是不是溝通就是復議成功那個才是溝通因為你都已經決定是復議了所以到時候你們就直接行政院就送來然後就看你們立法院要不要過嘛就這樣子沒關係啦這個是那個這本來就是你們的權利嘛要不要溝通本來就是你們的權利嘛不是溝通不是要不要溝通你這個復議如果同意復議才有溝通的空間嘛\n啊你都已經溝通不接受復議嘛不接受復議那個案就會報我指的是解凍案啊解凍案啊我指的是解凍案解凍案就是在預算案的主決議裡面就在預算的主決議裡面所以你不接受復議那就是那個那個案也是在那個主決議但是你後續還是要來解凍嘛對不對你還是會申請嘛\n我們當然會遵照大院的指示到目前為止還沒有打算想溝通我想確認一下你們會不會有意見你不可以你認為你們不需要那沒關係這就是你們的態度我們還不理解怎麼行使這個解凍程序很多公共工程其實在\n例行性的很多公共工程其實譬如說地方政府的地方道路的養護等等的他們不會等到預算過了才發包他們也不會等到譬如說今年一一四年度到了才發包他們可能都會在去年發包那並且在這個招標文件裡面可能說明這個預算就是有條件的嘛是預算通過後或者是我們是不是說付諸是預算解凍後來先行做這個相關的發包程序你們有這是\n可不可以這樣做跟你們程序上可不可以這樣跟你們會不會這樣這兩個部分可以說明嗎有條件的決標是可以做的有條件決標可以做嗎所以說我們有打算要做嗎\n這個是有錢的狀況之下我知道有預算已經有啦然後什麼時候解凍就可以花嘛對不對可是不知道會不會解凍所以你可以有條件大院沒有給我們一個能不能用啊所以我們如果掛那個條件結標掛有條件的結標你說可以嘛對不對可以但是錢在哪裡對所以你可以先招嘛但是就是錢在哪裡我沒有錢的情況之下沒有辦法辦理這個有條件的結標如果\n如果給你錢了你還有條件幹嘛啦就是你還不確定你有沒有錢的情況下才是有條件啊\n我們不是私人機關我們每一筆支出都要有預算都要大院同意所以所有的地方政府在預算還沒有過的情況下你剛剛說可以那現在好像又不行那個是預算通過了沒有通過預算沒有通過沒有人敢做這種決標啦他們都會預算沒有通過沒有一個政府敢做這種決標啦所以不能夠付諸嘛我想你如果待過議會你會知道對所以不能夠付諸我第一點就是跟主委確認這件事有預算\n才能夠這種有條件的決標比方說我環評通過才來執行沒有說等預算通過再給所以有條件的範圍不包含預算我們預算不知道條件是可能其他條件不包含預算確定要有預算才能上網報告這個沒有人敢來標啦確定齁\n確定所以是其他單位如果說以後看到相關的相關的這個有關預算的有條件我都報到工程會來那個條件是其他的條件我都來對對對這不是這個預算對對對我知道我清楚主委的意思就是其他的條件您剛剛講的可能環評之類的但是預算這一點公家機關絕對不行應該是這樣子嘛\n因為他沒有預算沒有通過我印象中應該有一些所以我請教主委如果說我記錯了那可能是我記錯了如果說未來我再發現的話我再提供給主委那不好意思再用一點時間最後一個這個基隆捷運這個現在在交通部那主委不知道有沒有注意到相關的新聞原本的預算大概700億當初行政院核定那最後\n地方政府評估到1200億嘛那最後如果說現在提到交通部的意思就是說你先按照700億當初核定的預算規模來報\n來報交通部那交通部合了之後會送到工程會但實際上他可能會到用到一千二兩百億那我們工程會後續的意見會認為這個差距過大嗎希望他先提這個修正報告我指的修正報告就是那個整體的這個基隆捷運的修正報告再來工程會嗎還是說我們也可以先走那最後再來提修正報告\n我們是審查他的基本設計啦這個基本設計當然牽涉到他這個費用吧也許是這個案是修正計畫是不是是修正計畫鐵道局建議整個工程經費核定了之後再提修正而且 對他們希望今天按700億來提\n那提我們就審他的基本設計啊你就審他700億嘛你不會針對整個計畫我們就針對工程項目有沒有合理來去審的現在中央政府大概錢的使用是受到很大的限制啦沒有我們是專業審查嘛對不對對OK好那我就確定一下我們不會因為700億跟1200億的差別造成審查上面這些我們就看交通部送什麼樣的基本設計我們就這個基本設計來審對好以上了解謝謝主委好謝謝主席好謝謝廖先祥委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.264 --> 00:10.509\n好謝謝主席你要麻煩邀請我們陳主委好陳主委問金子獎相關的也可以一起上來\n\n00:13.269 --> 00:35.261\n委員長好謝謝主委怎麼沒有人要救援你好金子獎那個業務單位好這個金子獎嘛這前幾天有新聞嘛那當然今天有很多委員在詢問主委嘛當然大家認為可能金子獎很重要才會被社會來討論我想請教一下金子獎去年跟今年去年的這個發包的決算跟今年的預算大概分別是多少我是請處理說明\n\n00:45.811 --> 01:05.543\n謝謝委員那去年的決算大概是我們在他有兩部分一個是那個委員的審查費大概將近400萬然後再發包發包的費用大概也是將近500萬左右500萬所以加起來900那我們今年大概應該也是差不多的規模啦頂多都到\n\n01:07.101 --> 01:31.270\n報告委員我們每年大概成長20%所以我們今年編的大概審查費跟發報費大概是各530萬那大概1000億以內嘛對不對好那今年的我們的業務費那大概就2億嘛那當然動50%那所以說我們實際上目前我們工程會實際能夠用的大概就是1億元嘛那也就是說在我們工程會的認知裡面我們在2億的預算裡面有1億的預算是\n\n01:35.240 --> 02:01.858\n優先於這個金子獎的審查可以這樣理解嗎如果說我們不辦金子獎的話不是因為業務分在各處技術處、公管處、企劃處是同那個兩位你動了一半那各處都有各處的業務你如果把它挪用來辦金子獎相對排擠其他應辦業務包括重大公共建設的考核等等都會影響到優先順序的問題嘛你怕排擠到別人的所以金子獎\n\n02:02.698 --> 02:18.816\n可能就是可能順序比較後面嘛也就是說我們今年有一億的預算你認為這一億的優先的順序就在排序的時候金子獎可能沒有在這一億裡面可能是在後面的一億所以你才會說金子獎可能不辦嘛不是這個意思\n\n02:19.497 --> 02:29.308\n那你就那你就辦啊所有的業務會都在業務我們預算說明欄都有說明是公管數多少錢多少那個企劃數多少錢這個金職獎的說明是1060萬對說明在這裡了\n\n02:34.434 --> 02:56.821\n去留用其他部會其他業務的預算就排擠其他嘛而且大院同意不同意解凍我們不知道我們就今天當作不解凍嘛對不對你們現在預期不解凍嘛委員認為已經確定不解凍我們要這樣講你們目前就是當作不解凍來說沒辦法辦嘛如果會解凍就會辦嘛對不對我們希望大院能夠盡速解凍\n\n02:57.401 --> 03:25.126\n你會解凍就會辦嘛這沒有問題嘛對不對因為就按照你們的預算在編嘛就不知道什麼時候解凍對好那就是說我們在給你的一億裡面你不打算用這一億的經費來辦金子獎可以這樣子理解嗎不可以因為這一億裡面有其他業務要用對啊所以這一億裡面沒有要辦金子獎啊金子獎受影響是50%啊是啊受影響50%啊所以你一億裡面沒有要辦嘛你也不可能金子獎只辦一半吧\n\n03:26.260 --> 03:52.227\n金職獎的確你要買就要辦要買就不辦吧沒有辦法說辦一辦要等著要報名啊所以就是辦跟不辦的差別嘛就是這一千萬你到底要不要花的差別嘛一千萬要花就是一千萬花一千萬不花就是一千萬不花嘛目前我們有一億的預算你不打算花這一千萬嗎是不是這樣理解大院何時解動大院凍結的不只金職獎的預算是所有的業務會凍結一半啦\n\n03:54.248 --> 04:02.945\n凍結50%嘛對啊就可以看這每一個都凍50嘛因為其他業務也會受影響其他業務受影響是因為它很多所以50%你會去與你的優先順序嘛你會去凍你的優先順序啊\n\n04:06.350 --> 04:20.915\n這個是大院到底要不要同意我們使用的問題不是我們能不能留用的問題所以好像每個東西都做一半那你議員你告訴我你現在的議員你要幹什麼我們其他的公共建設的審查或其他的議員還可以優先你講不講得出來議員你要拿來做什麼\n\n04:24.076 --> 04:49.531\n一個部會都有他的預算實際的實際的我們公共建設的審查包括多少錢什麼項目多少錢這有辦法現在提供嗎我們會提供給你好啊那你就告訴在預算裡面我想你們經過仔細的審查我們都是對那個是兩億的狀況嘛對不對那現在你只有一億你會一億優先用在哪些項目我想知道嘛因為目前金子獎可能不辦嘛對不對那你其他東西就會把這一億花光嘛\n\n04:50.540 --> 05:09.963\n不是一億發光這個一億就是其他業務都各使用一半的情況之下其他的業務也許可以這樣辦一半同意再來辦這個金職獎就一件事情而已現在要嘛辦接受報名然後做一些準備那如果說大院等到今年10月才同意解凍那我們還辦什麼金職獎\n\n05:11.144 --> 05:21.714\n好沒關係那主委如果說你現在現場提不出來我們這一億目前的規劃要做什麼的話規劃很清楚在預算書裡面大院在審查的時候那是兩億的狀況嘛現在已經是一億嘛對不對那你就會後給我給個書面資料我們優先一億會用在哪些項目那你要說每個項目都50%我也可以接受啊\n\n05:33.726 --> 06:02.175\n對不對這總是我要知道你50%你要怎麼花嘛我才會看後續的結凍案要怎麼結凍我們的預算使用每一個科目都很清楚而且委員應該有這個預算書啦有啊當然有啊但我不確定你我們沒有辦法跟委員報告說哪些要優先使用就是同商50%嘛對不對那我想知道在不結凍的情況下你50%會用在哪嗎就這麼簡單而已現在我可以跟委員報告其他的科目呢可以用一半但是靜止獎沒辦法用一半再來考量說大院要不要同意\n\n06:02.415 --> 06:18.305\n好沒關係那就會後再給我明確的資料每一個細項好那另外我想確認一下就是解凍三層你們的因為當初是說三層嘛對不對剛剛主委也有一直強調這個院會的決議嘛你們要遵守那三層的部分其實現在也三月了啦你們大概用多少了我們我們業務費對業務費\n\n06:30.689 --> 06:44.741\n所有的業務費你們用到多少了因為我們想知道就30%嘛對不對你現在用多少我們會遵照大院的決定使用30%我們就會嚴厲來提解凍案那我剛才說得很清楚\n\n06:46.462 --> 07:05.335\n所以現在你們不確定現在動之幾趴了怎麼樣解凍我們還不知道大家原料我們沒關係這會後也可以給資料會後給資料你目前動之幾趴這對我們來說應該很重要啊因為你們30趴才能送嘛你們應該要很清楚現在動到幾趴結果現在花了多少錢好像也沒有辦法很明確的講因為如何解凍程序我們還沒辦法掌握啦\n\n07:05.595 --> 07:29.500\n但我們都可以先準備嘛就包括你們的報告我們當然會準備都可以先準備包括委員的溝通也私底下都可以溝通嘛程序當然是到了哪時候都可以先走但是很多事情可以溝通的時候就先溝通嘛目前至少委還沒有接收到櫃會來跟我辦公室說要溝通後續的結婚的狀況嘛預算審查的時候在交通委內已經每個委員都有溝通而且交通委內已經審閉了如果說\n\n07:32.202 --> 08:00.099\n就只講要不要辦我們還要再到大院兩百多個人所以你解通案就是直接送來你也不打算跟院會溝通嘛是不是你們也不打算再溝通嘛是不是溝通就是復議成功那個才是溝通因為你都已經決定是復議了所以到時候你們就直接行政院就送來然後就看你們立法院要不要過嘛就這樣子沒關係啦這個是那個這本來就是你們的權利嘛要不要溝通本來就是你們的權利嘛不是溝通不是要不要溝通你這個復議如果同意復議才有溝通的空間嘛\n\n08:00.979 --> 08:20.281\n啊你都已經溝通不接受復議嘛不接受復議那個案就會報我指的是解凍案啊解凍案啊我指的是解凍案解凍案就是在預算案的主決議裡面就在預算的主決議裡面所以你不接受復議那就是那個那個案也是在那個主決議但是你後續還是要來解凍嘛對不對你還是會申請嘛\n\n08:21.414 --> 08:38.877\n我們當然會遵照大院的指示到目前為止還沒有打算想溝通我想確認一下你們會不會有意見你不可以你認為你們不需要那沒關係這就是你們的態度我們還不理解怎麼行使這個解凍程序很多公共工程其實在\n\n08:39.818 --> 09:07.121\n例行性的很多公共工程其實譬如說地方政府的地方道路的養護等等的他們不會等到預算過了才發包他們也不會等到譬如說今年一一四年度到了才發包他們可能都會在去年發包那並且在這個招標文件裡面可能說明這個預算就是有條件的嘛是預算通過後或者是我們是不是說付諸是預算解凍後來先行做這個相關的發包程序你們有這是\n\n09:08.463 --> 09:17.440\n可不可以這樣做跟你們程序上可不可以這樣跟你們會不會這樣這兩個部分可以說明嗎有條件的決標是可以做的有條件決標可以做嗎所以說我們有打算要做嗎\n\n09:19.668 --> 09:44.629\n這個是有錢的狀況之下我知道有預算已經有啦然後什麼時候解凍就可以花嘛對不對可是不知道會不會解凍所以你可以有條件大院沒有給我們一個能不能用啊所以我們如果掛那個條件結標掛有條件的結標你說可以嘛對不對可以但是錢在哪裡對所以你可以先招嘛但是就是錢在哪裡我沒有錢的情況之下沒有辦法辦理這個有條件的結標如果\n\n09:45.531 --> 09:46.735\n如果給你錢了你還有條件幹嘛啦就是你還不確定你有沒有錢的情況下才是有條件啊\n\n09:51.960 --> 10:19.241\n我們不是私人機關我們每一筆支出都要有預算都要大院同意所以所有的地方政府在預算還沒有過的情況下你剛剛說可以那現在好像又不行那個是預算通過了沒有通過預算沒有通過沒有人敢做這種決標啦他們都會預算沒有通過沒有一個政府敢做這種決標啦所以不能夠付諸嘛我想你如果待過議會你會知道對所以不能夠付諸我第一點就是跟主委確認這件事有預算\n\n10:19.981 --> 10:33.616\n才能夠這種有條件的決標比方說我環評通過才來執行沒有說等預算通過再給所以有條件的範圍不包含預算我們預算不知道條件是可能其他條件不包含預算確定要有預算才能上網報告這個沒有人敢來標啦確定齁\n\n10:35.678 --> 10:52.127\n確定所以是其他單位如果說以後看到相關的相關的這個有關預算的有條件我都報到工程會來那個條件是其他的條件我都來對對對這不是這個預算對對對我知道我清楚主委的意思就是其他的條件您剛剛講的可能環評之類的但是預算這一點公家機關絕對不行應該是這樣子嘛\n\n10:54.045 --> 11:14.353\n因為他沒有預算沒有通過我印象中應該有一些所以我請教主委如果說我記錯了那可能是我記錯了如果說未來我再發現的話我再提供給主委那不好意思再用一點時間最後一個這個基隆捷運這個現在在交通部那主委不知道有沒有注意到相關的新聞原本的預算大概700億當初行政院核定那最後\n\n11:16.315 --> 11:24.006\n地方政府評估到1200億嘛那最後如果說現在提到交通部的意思就是說你先按照700億當初核定的預算規模來報\n\n11:25.890 --> 11:46.585\n來報交通部那交通部合了之後會送到工程會但實際上他可能會到用到一千二兩百億那我們工程會後續的意見會認為這個差距過大嗎希望他先提這個修正報告我指的修正報告就是那個整體的這個基隆捷運的修正報告再來工程會嗎還是說我們也可以先走那最後再來提修正報告\n\n11:47.305 --> 12:04.133\n我們是審查他的基本設計啦這個基本設計當然牽涉到他這個費用吧也許是這個案是修正計畫是不是是修正計畫鐵道局建議整個工程經費核定了之後再提修正而且對他們希望今天按700億來提\n\n12:05.376 --> 12:32.733\n那提我們就審他的基本設計啊你就審他700億嘛你不會針對整個計畫我們就針對工程項目有沒有合理來去審的現在中央政府大概錢的使用是受到很大的限制啦沒有我們是專業審查嘛對不對對OK好那我就確定一下我們不會因為700億跟1200億的差別造成審查上面這些我們就看交通部送什麼樣的基本設計我們就這個基本設計來審對好以上了解謝謝主委好謝謝主席好謝謝廖先祥委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.264,"end":10.509,"text":"好 謝謝主席 你要麻煩邀請我們陳主委好 陳主委問金子獎 相關的也可以一起上來"},{"start":13.269,"end":35.261,"text":"委員長好 謝謝主委怎麼沒有人要救援你好 金子獎那個業務單位好 這個金子獎嘛這前幾天有新聞嘛那當然今天有很多委員在詢問主委嘛當然大家認為可能金子獎很重要才會被社會來討論我想請教一下金子獎去年跟今年去年的這個發包的決算跟今年的預算大概分別是多少我是請處理說明"},{"start":45.811,"end":65.543,"text":"謝謝委員那去年的決算大概是我們在他有兩部分一個是那個委員的審查費大概將近400萬然後再發包發包的費用大概也是將近500萬左右500萬所以加起來900那我們今年大概應該也是差不多的規模啦頂多都到"},{"start":67.101,"end":91.27,"text":"報告委員我們每年大概成長20%所以我們今年編的大概審查費跟發報費大概是各530萬那大概1000億以內嘛對不對好那今年的我們的業務費那大概就2億嘛那當然動50%那所以說我們實際上目前我們工程會實際能夠用的大概就是1億元嘛那也就是說在我們工程會的認知裡面我們在2億的預算裡面有1億的預算是"},{"start":95.24,"end":121.858,"text":"優先於這個金子獎的審查可以這樣理解嗎如果說我們不辦金子獎的話不是因為業務分在各處技術處、公管處、企劃處是同那個兩位你動了一半那各處都有各處的業務你如果把它挪用來辦金子獎相對排擠其他應辦業務包括重大公共建設的考核等等都會影響到優先順序的問題嘛你怕排擠到別人的所以金子獎"},{"start":122.698,"end":138.816,"text":"可能就是可能順序比較後面嘛也就是說我們今年有一億的預算你認為這一億的優先的順序就在排序的時候金子獎可能沒有在這一億裡面可能是在後面的一億所以你才會說金子獎可能不辦嘛不是這個意思"},{"start":139.497,"end":149.308,"text":"那你就那你就辦啊所有的業務會都在業務我們預算說明欄都有說明是公管數多少錢多少那個企劃數多少錢這個金職獎的說明是1060萬對說明在這裡了"},{"start":154.434,"end":176.821,"text":"去留用其他部會其他業務的預算就排擠其他嘛而且大院同意不同意解凍我們不知道我們就今天當作不解凍嘛對不對你們現在預期不解凍嘛委員認為已經確定不解凍我們要這樣講你們目前就是當作不解凍來說沒辦法辦嘛如果會解凍就會辦嘛對不對我們希望大院能夠盡速解凍"},{"start":177.401,"end":205.126,"text":"你會解凍就會辦嘛這沒有問題嘛對不對因為就按照你們的預算在編嘛就不知道什麼時候解凍對好那就是說我們在給你的一億裡面你不打算用這一億的經費來辦金子獎可以這樣子理解嗎不可以因為這一億裡面有其他業務要用對啊所以這一億裡面沒有要辦金子獎啊金子獎受影響是50%啊是啊受影響50%啊所以你一億裡面沒有要辦嘛你也不可能金子獎只辦一半吧"},{"start":206.26,"end":232.227,"text":"金職獎的確 你要買就要辦 要買就不辦吧沒有辦法說辦一辦 要等著要報名啊所以就是辦跟不辦的差別嘛就是這一千萬你到底要不要花的差別嘛一千萬要花就是一千萬花一千萬不花就是一千萬不花嘛目前我們有一億的預算你不打算花這一千萬嗎是不是這樣理解大院何時解動大院凍結的不只金職獎的預算是所有的業務會凍結一半啦"},{"start":234.248,"end":242.945,"text":"凍結50%嘛對啊就可以看這每一個都凍50嘛因為其他業務也會受影響其他業務受影響是因為它很多所以50%你會去與你的優先順序嘛你會去凍你的優先順序啊"},{"start":246.35,"end":260.915,"text":"這個是大院到底要不要同意我們使用的問題不是我們能不能留用的問題所以好像每個東西都做一半那你議員你告訴我你現在的議員你要幹什麼我們其他的公共建設的審查或其他的議員還可以優先你講不講得出來議員你要拿來做什麼"},{"start":264.076,"end":289.531,"text":"一個部會都有他的預算實際的實際的我們公共建設的審查包括多少錢什麼項目多少錢這有辦法現在提供嗎我們會提供給你好啊那你就告訴在預算裡面我想你們經過仔細的審查我們都是對那個是兩億的狀況嘛對不對那現在你只有一億你會一億優先用在哪些項目我想知道嘛因為目前金子獎可能不辦嘛對不對那你其他東西就會把這一億花光嘛"},{"start":290.54,"end":309.963,"text":"不是一億發光這個一億就是其他業務都各使用一半的情況之下其他的業務也許可以這樣辦一半同意再來辦這個金職獎就一件事情而已現在要嘛辦接受報名然後做一些準備那如果說大院等到今年10月才同意解凍那我們還辦什麼金職獎"},{"start":311.144,"end":321.714,"text":"好沒關係那主委如果說你現在現場提不出來我們這一億目前的規劃要做什麼的話規劃很清楚在預算書裡面大院在審查的時候那是兩億的狀況嘛現在已經是一億嘛對不對那你就會後給我給個書面資料我們優先一億會用在哪些項目那你要說每個項目都50%我也可以接受啊"},{"start":333.726,"end":362.175,"text":"對不對這總是我要知道你50%你要怎麼花嘛我才會看後續的結凍案要怎麼結凍我們的預算使用每一個科目都很清楚而且委員應該有這個預算書啦有啊當然有啊但我不確定你我們沒有辦法跟委員報告說哪些要優先使用就是同商50%嘛對不對那我想知道在不結凍的情況下你50%會用在哪嗎就這麼簡單而已現在我可以跟委員報告其他的科目呢可以用一半但是靜止獎沒辦法用一半再來考量說大院要不要同意"},{"start":362.415,"end":378.305,"text":"好 沒關係 那就會後再給我明確的資料 每一個細項好 那另外我想確認一下 就是解凍三層你們的因為當初是說三層嘛 對不對 剛剛主委也有一直強調這個院會的決議嘛 你們要遵守那三層的部分 其實現在也三月了啦 你們大概用多少了我們我們 業務費 對 業務費"},{"start":390.689,"end":404.741,"text":"所有的業務費你們用到多少了因為我們想知道就30%嘛對不對你現在用多少我們會遵照大院的決定使用30%我們就會嚴厲來提解凍案那我剛才說得很清楚"},{"start":406.462,"end":425.335,"text":"所以現在你們不確定現在動之幾趴了怎麼樣解凍我們還不知道大家原料我們沒關係這會後也可以給資料會後給資料你目前動之幾趴這對我們來說應該很重要啊因為你們30趴才能送嘛你們應該要很清楚現在動到幾趴結果現在花了多少錢好像也沒有辦法很明確的講因為如何解凍程序我們還沒辦法掌握啦"},{"start":425.595,"end":449.5,"text":"但我們都可以先準備嘛就包括你們的報告我們當然會準備都可以先準備包括委員的溝通也私底下都可以溝通嘛程序當然是到了哪時候都可以先走但是很多事情可以溝通的時候就先溝通嘛目前至少委還沒有接收到櫃會來跟我辦公室說要溝通後續的結婚的狀況嘛預算審查的時候在交通委內已經每個委員都有溝通而且交通委內已經審閉了如果說"},{"start":452.202,"end":480.099,"text":"就只講要不要辦我們還要再到大院兩百多個人所以你解通案就是直接送來你也不打算跟院會溝通嘛是不是你們也不打算再溝通嘛是不是溝通就是復議成功那個才是溝通因為你都已經決定是復議了所以到時候你們就直接行政院就送來然後就看你們立法院要不要過嘛就這樣子沒關係啦這個是那個這本來就是你們的權利嘛要不要溝通本來就是你們的權利嘛不是溝通不是要不要溝通你這個復議如果同意復議才有溝通的空間嘛"},{"start":480.979,"end":500.281,"text":"啊你都已經溝通不接受復議嘛不接受復議那個案就會報我指的是解凍案啊解凍案啊我指的是解凍案解凍案就是在預算案的主決議裡面就在預算的主決議裡面所以你不接受復議那就是那個那個案也是在那個主決議但是你後續還是要來解凍嘛對不對你還是會申請嘛"},{"start":501.414,"end":518.877,"text":"我們當然會遵照大院的指示到目前為止還沒有打算想溝通我想確認一下你們會不會有意見你不可以你認為你們不需要那沒關係這就是你們的態度我們還不理解怎麼行使這個解凍程序很多公共工程其實在"},{"start":519.818,"end":547.121,"text":"例行性的很多公共工程其實譬如說地方政府的地方道路的養護等等的他們不會等到預算過了才發包他們也不會等到譬如說今年一一四年度到了才發包他們可能都會在去年發包那並且在這個招標文件裡面可能說明這個預算就是有條件的嘛是預算通過後或者是我們是不是說付諸是預算解凍後來先行做這個相關的發包程序你們有這是"},{"start":548.463,"end":557.44,"text":"可不可以這樣做跟你們程序上可不可以這樣跟你們會不會這樣這兩個部分可以說明嗎有條件的決標是可以做的有條件決標可以做嗎所以說我們有打算要做嗎"},{"start":559.668,"end":584.629,"text":"這個是有錢的狀況之下我知道有預算已經有啦然後什麼時候解凍就可以花嘛對不對可是不知道會不會解凍所以你可以有條件大院沒有給我們一個能不能用啊所以我們如果掛那個條件結標掛有條件的結標你說可以嘛對不對可以但是錢在哪裡對所以你可以先招嘛但是就是錢在哪裡我沒有錢的情況之下沒有辦法辦理這個有條件的結標如果"},{"start":585.531,"end":586.735,"text":"如果給你錢了你還有條件幹嘛啦就是你還不確定你有沒有錢的情況下才是有條件啊"},{"start":591.96,"end":619.241,"text":"我們不是私人機關我們每一筆支出都要有預算都要大院同意所以所有的地方政府在預算還沒有過的情況下你剛剛說可以那現在好像又不行那個是預算通過了沒有通過預算沒有通過沒有人敢做這種決標啦他們都會預算沒有通過沒有一個政府敢做這種決標啦所以不能夠付諸嘛我想你如果待過議會你會知道對所以不能夠付諸我第一點就是跟主委確認這件事有預算"},{"start":619.981,"end":633.616,"text":"才能夠這種有條件的決標比方說我環評通過才來執行沒有說等預算通過再給所以有條件的範圍不包含預算我們預算不知道條件是可能其他條件不包含預算確定要有預算才能上網報告這個沒有人敢來標啦確定齁"},{"start":635.678,"end":652.127,"text":"確定所以是其他單位如果說以後看到相關的相關的這個有關預算的有條件我都報到工程會來那個條件是其他的條件我都來對對對這不是這個預算對對對我知道我清楚主委的意思就是其他的條件您剛剛講的可能環評之類的但是預算這一點公家機關絕對不行應該是這樣子嘛"},{"start":654.045,"end":674.353,"text":"因為他沒有預算沒有通過我印象中應該有一些所以我請教主委如果說我記錯了那可能是我記錯了如果說未來我再發現的話我再提供給主委那不好意思再用一點時間最後一個這個基隆捷運這個現在在交通部那主委不知道有沒有注意到相關的新聞原本的預算大概700億當初行政院核定那最後"},{"start":676.315,"end":684.006,"text":"地方政府評估到1200億嘛那最後如果說現在提到交通部的意思就是說你先按照700億當初核定的預算規模來報"},{"start":685.89,"end":706.585,"text":"來報交通部那交通部合了之後會送到工程會但實際上他可能會到用到一千二兩百億那我們工程會後續的意見會認為這個差距過大嗎希望他先提這個修正報告我指的修正報告就是那個整體的這個基隆捷運的修正報告再來工程會嗎還是說我們也可以先走那最後再來提修正報告"},{"start":707.305,"end":724.133,"text":"我們是審查他的基本設計啦這個基本設計當然牽涉到他這個費用吧也許是這個案是修正計畫是不是是修正計畫鐵道局建議整個工程經費核定了之後再提修正而且 對他們希望今天按700億來提"},{"start":725.376,"end":752.733,"text":"那提我們就審他的基本設計啊你就審他700億嘛你不會針對整個計畫我們就針對工程項目有沒有合理來去審的現在中央政府大概錢的使用是受到很大的限制啦沒有我們是專業審查嘛對不對對OK好那我就確定一下我們不會因為700億跟1200億的差別造成審查上面這些我們就看交通部送什麼樣的基本設計我們就這個基本設計來審對好以上了解謝謝主委好謝謝主席好謝謝廖先祥委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":521,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（11時23分）謝謝主席，麻煩邀請陳主委。"],["主席：好，陳主委。"],["廖委員先翔：我想問金質獎的問題，相關的官員也可以一起上來。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員早。"],["廖委員先翔：謝謝主委，怎麼沒有人要救援你？"],["主席：金質獎的業務單位。"],["廖委員先翔：金質獎前幾天有新聞，今天也有很多委員在詢問主委，當然，大家認為可能金質獎很重要，才會被社會討論。我想請教一下，金質獎去年發包的決算跟今年的預算大概分別是多少？"],["陳主任委員金德：是不是請處長說明？"],["廖委員先翔：沒問題。"],["陳處長春錦：謝謝委員。去年的決算有兩部分，一個是委員的審查費，大概將近400萬，然後發包的費用大概也是將近500萬左右。"],["廖委員先翔：500萬，所以加起來900萬？"],["陳處長春錦：對，是。"],["廖委員先翔：今年大概應該也是差不多的規模，頂多多到……"],["陳處長春錦：報告委員，我們每年大概成長20%，所以我們今年的審查費跟發包費編了大概是各530萬。以上。"],["廖委員先翔：大概1,000萬以內，對不對？"],["陳處長春錦：對。"],["廖委員先翔：今年的業務費大概就2億，凍50%，所以實際上目前工程會實際能夠用的大概就是1億元，也就是說，在工程會的認知裡面，在2億的預算裡面，有1億的預算是優先於金質獎的審查，可以這樣理解嗎？如果我們不辦金質獎的話。"],["陳主任委員金德：不是，因為業務分在各處，技術處、工管處、企劃處是2億，被凍了一半，各處都有各處的業務，如果挪用來辦金質獎，相對排擠其他應辦業務，包括重大公共建設的考核等等都會影響到。"],["廖委員先翔：對，就是優先順序的問題，你怕排擠到別人的，所以金質獎可能順序比較後面。也就是說，今年有1億的預算，你認為這1億的優先順序在排序的時候，金質獎可能沒有在這1億裡面，可能是在後面的1億，所以你才會說金質獎可能不辦嘛。"],["陳主任委員金德：不是這個意思，因為……"],["廖委員先翔：那你就辦啊！"],["陳主任委員金德：所有的業務費都在我們的預算說明欄有說明，包括工管處多少錢、企劃處多少錢，這個金質獎的說明是1,060萬，已經說明在這裡了，去流用其他部會、其他業務的預算，就排擠其他嘛。"],["廖委員先翔：對呀。"],["陳主任委員金德：而且大院同不同意解凍，我們不知道。"],["廖委員先翔：我們今天就當作不解凍，對不對？你們現在預期不解凍嘛。"],["陳主任委員金德：如果委員認為已經確定不解凍……"],["廖委員先翔：我沒有這樣講。"],["陳主任委員金德：的確金質獎沒辦法辦。"],["廖委員先翔：你們目前就是當作不解凍來說沒辦法辦，如果解凍就會辦，對不對？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們希望大院能夠儘速解凍。"],["廖委員先翔：會解凍就會辦，這沒有問題，對不對？就按照你們編的預算，對不對？"],["陳主任委員金德：不知道什麼時候解凍。"],["廖委員先翔：好。那就是說，我們給你的1億裡面，你不打算用這1億的經費來辦金質獎，可以這樣子理解嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：不可以，因為這1億裡面有其他業務要用。"],["廖委員先翔：對，這1億裡面沒有要辦金質獎啊！"],["陳主任委員金德：金質獎……受影響的是50%，受影響的是50%啊。"],["廖委員先翔：所以你1億裡面沒有要辦嘛，你也不可能金質獎只辦一半吧。"],["陳主任委員金德：金質獎的確沒辦法……"],["廖委員先翔：你要嘛就辦，要嘛就不辦。"],["陳主任委員金德：沒有辦法說辦一半，因為大家等著要報名了。"],["廖委員先翔：對呀，所以就是辦跟不辦的差別，就是這1,000萬你到底要不要花的差別。1,000萬要花就是花1,000萬，1,000萬不花就是1,000萬不花。目前你們有1億的預算，你不打算花這1,000萬，是不是這樣理解？"],["陳主任委員金德：不是，大院何時解凍……大院凍結的不只金質獎的預算，是所有的業務費凍結一半。"],["廖委員先翔：就凍結50%嘛。"],["陳主任委員金德：對。"],["廖委員先翔：對呀，就可以看成每一個都凍50%嘛。"],["陳主任委員金德：對，因為其他業務也會受影響。"],["廖委員先翔：對呀。"],["陳主任委員金德：其他業務受影響，是因為它很多……"],["廖委員先翔：所以這50%你們去勻你們的優先順序，對不對？你會去動你的優先順序。"],["陳主任委員金德：這個是大院到底要不要同意我們使用的問題，不是我們能不能流用的問題。"],["廖委員先翔：好，每個東西都凍一半，你告訴我，現在這1億你要幹什麼？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們其他公共建設的審查或其他的業務還可以優先次序……"],["廖委員先翔：另外給我細項，你講不講得出來？1億元你要拿來做什麼？"],["陳主任委員金德：各部會都有它的預算，各單位都有它的預算。"],["廖委員先翔：對呀，實際的。"],["陳主任委員金德：我們公共建設的審查，包括……"],["廖委員先翔：多少錢？什麼項目多少錢有辦法現在提供嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們會提供給你。"],["廖委員先翔：好，你就告訴……"],["陳主任委員金德：而且在預算裡面，我想你們也經過仔細的審查，我們都是……"],["廖委員先翔：對，那個是2億的狀況，對不對？現在你只有1億，你會把這1億優先用在哪裡項目，我想知道，因為目前金質獎可能不辦，對不對？你其他的東西就會把這1億花光嘛。"],["陳主任委員金德：不是1億花光，這個1億就是其他業務都各使用一半的情況之下，其他的業務也許可以辦一半，經過同意再來辦。這個金質獎只有一件事情而已，現在要嘛辦，接受報名，然後做一些準備；如果大院等到今年10月才同意解凍，那我們還辦什麼金質獎？"],["廖委員先翔：好，沒關係，主委，如果你現在現場提不出來這1億目前的規劃要做什麼的話，會後……"],["陳主任委員金德：我們的規劃很清楚……"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係，我是說你……"],["陳主任委員金德：在預算書裡面，大院在審查的時候清清楚楚、清清楚楚！"],["廖委員先翔：那是2億的狀況，現在你就剩1億，對不對？你就會後給個書面資料，說明1億會優先用在哪些項目，你要是說每個項目都50%，我也可以接受，對不對？總是我要知道這50%你要怎麼花，我才會看後續的解凍案要怎麼解凍。"],["陳主任委員金德：我們的預算使用，每個科目都很清楚，而且委員應該有預算書。"],["廖委員先翔：當然有啊，但我不確定你……"],["陳主任委員金德：我們沒有辦法跟委員報告哪些要優先使用。"],["廖委員先翔：就是統刪50%，對不對？我想知道在不解凍的情況下，你這50%會用在哪裡，就這麼簡單而已，就這麼簡單。"],["陳主任委員金德：現在我可以跟委員報告，其他的科目可以用一半，但是金質獎沒辦法用一半再來考量大院要不要同意。"],["廖委員先翔：好，沒關係，那就會後再給我明確的資料，包括每個細項。","另外，我想確認一下，當初是說三成，剛剛主委也有一直強調，院會的決議你們要遵守。三成的部分，其實現在也3月了，你們大概用多少了？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們……"],["廖委員先翔：對，業務費。"],["陳主任委員金德：所有的業務費……"],["廖委員先翔：你們用掉多少了？我們想知道，就是30%，對不對？你們現在用多少了？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們會遵照大院的決定，使用30%，我們就會研議來提凍結案。"],["廖委員先翔：所以你現在……"],["陳主任委員金德：我剛才說得很清楚……"],["廖委員先翔：所以你們不確定現在動支幾趴了？"],["陳主任委員金德：怎麼樣解凍我們還不知道，大院要我們怎麼……"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係，會後也可以給資料，就是你目前動支幾%了，這對我們來說應該很重要啊！因為要30%你們才能送，所以你們應該要很清楚現在動了幾%，結果你們現在花了多少錢，好像也沒有辦法很明確的講出來。"],["陳主任委員金德：因為如何解凍的程序我們還沒辦法掌握。"],["廖委員先翔：但還是可以先準備，包括你們的報告。"],["陳主任委員金德：我們當然會準備。"],["廖委員先翔：這都可以先準備，包括跟委員的溝通，其實私底下都可以溝通，程序當然是到時候再走，但是很多事情可以溝通的時候就先溝通，目前至少我也還沒有接收到貴會有來跟我辦公室溝通後續解凍的狀況。"],["陳主任委員金德：報告委員，預算審查的時候都已經跟交通委員會每個委員有溝通了，而且交通委員會都已經審畢了，如果金質獎要不要辦一事，我們還要再到大院向一百多個委員說明……"],["廖委員先翔：所以解凍案你就是打算直接送來，不打算跟院會溝通、不打算再溝通，是不是？"],["陳主任委員金德：溝通就是覆議成功，那個才是溝通，因為你都已經決定覆議……"],["廖委員先翔：到時候就是行政院送來，然後就看立法院要不要過，是不是這樣子？沒關係！要不要溝通本來就是你們的權利。"],["陳主任委員金德：不是要不要溝通，如果同意覆議才有溝通的空間，現在都已經溝通，不接受覆議嘛！不接受覆議後，那個案子就會到……"],["廖委員先翔：我指的是解凍案。"],["陳主任委員金德：解凍案就是在預算案的主決議裡面，所以你不接受覆議，那個案也是在那個主決議……"],["廖委員先翔：但是你後續還是要來解凍，對不對？你還是會申請嘛？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們當然會遵照大院的指示……"],["廖委員先翔：所以到目前為止還沒有打算來溝通嘛！我想確認一下你們會不會而已，你認為你們不需要那沒關係，這就是你們的態度嘛！"],["陳主任委員金德：我們還不理解怎麼行使這個解凍程序。"],["廖委員先翔：另外，其實在例行性的很多公共工程，譬如說地方政府地方道路的養護等等，他們不會等到預算過了才發包，譬如說他們不會等到今（114）年度到了才發包，可能會在去年發包，並且在招標文件裡面可能會說明這個預算的條件，就是俟預算通過後，或者是俟預算解凍後，然後先行做相關的發包程序，程序上可不可以這樣做，以及你們會不會這樣做，這兩個部分可以說明嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：有條件的決標是可以做的。"],["廖委員先翔：有條件的決標可以做，所以我們有打算要做嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：這是在有錢的狀況之下，我知道預算已經有了，然後什麼時候……"],["廖委員先翔：解凍就可以做了，對不對？"],["陳主任委員金德：可是不知道會不會解凍嘛！大院沒有給我們能不能用……"],["廖委員先翔：可以嘛！對不對？"],["陳主任委員金德：可以，但是錢在哪裡？"],["廖委員先翔：所以你可以先招標，但是……"],["陳主任委員金德：不是，錢在哪裡不清楚，也就是我在沒有錢的情況之下，沒有辦法辦理有條件的決標。"],["廖委員先翔：如果給你錢了，你還有條件要幹嘛呢？就是你還不確定有沒有錢的情況下，才會有條件，是吧？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們不是私人機關，每一筆支出都有預算，都要大院同意。"],["廖委員先翔：所以針對所有地方政府在預算還沒有過的情況下，你剛剛說可以但現在好像又不行。"],["陳主任委員金德：那個是預算通過了。"],["廖委員先翔：沒有通過啊！"],["陳主任委員金德：預算沒有通過，沒有政府敢做這種決標啦！"],["廖委員先翔：所以不能夠附註嘛！是不是？"],["陳主任委員金德：我想你如果待過議會，應該就會知道。"],["廖委員先翔：所以不能夠附註？第一點，就是跟主委確認這件事。"],["陳主任委員金德：有預算才能夠做這種有條件的決標，比方說環評通過才來執行，並沒有等預算通過再給。"],["廖委員先翔：所以有條件的範圍不包含預算，條件可能是其他條件，不包含預算？確定要有預算才能上網發包？"],["陳主任委員金德：這樣沒有人敢發包啦！"],["廖委員先翔：確定？確定，所以其他單位如果以後看到有關於預算有條件的，我都會報到工程會來。"],["陳主任委員金德：那個條件是其他的條件，並不是這個預算。"],["廖委員先翔：對！對！對！我知道，我清楚主委的意思，就是其他的條件，包括您剛剛講的環評之類的，但是預算這一點，公家機關絕對不行，應該是這樣子吧？"],["陳主任委員金德：因為預算沒有通過，沒有人敢發包的。"],["廖委員先翔：好，我了解，因為我印象中應該有一些，所以來請教主委，可能是我記錯了，如果未來有再發現的話，我再提供給主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：好。"],["廖委員先翔：不好意思，再占用一點時間，最後一個是基隆捷運，這部分現在在交通部，主委不知道有沒有注意到相關的新聞，原本的預算當初行政院核定的大概是700億，最後地方政府評估是到1,200億，現在交通部的意思是先按照當初核定的預算規模700億報到交通部，交通部核了之後會再送到工程會，但實際上它可能會用到1,200億，那工程會後續的意見會認為這個差距過大嗎？會希望它先提修正報告給工程會嗎？我指的修正報告就是整體的基隆捷運修正報告，還是我們也可以先走，最後再提修正報告？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們是審查它的基本設計，這個基本設計當然牽涉到它的費用，也許這個案子是修正計畫，是不是？"],["廖委員先翔：鐵道局建議整個工程經費核定了之後再提修正，他們希望先按700億來提。"],["陳主任委員金德：提出了我們就審它的基本設計。"],["廖委員先翔：你就會審那700億，不會針對整個計畫，即你會針對工程項目有沒有合理來進行審查。"],["陳主任委員金德：現在中央政府錢的使用大概是受到很大的限制。"],["廖委員先翔：沒有，我們是專業審查，對不對？"],["陳主任委員金德：對。"],["廖委員先翔：好，就確定一下，我們不會因為700億跟1,200億的差別造成審查上的差異。"],["陳主任委員金德：就看交通部送什麼樣的基本設計，我們會就整個基本設計來審查。"],["廖委員先翔：好，了解，以上，謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝廖先翔委員。現在請徐富癸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":222,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-3","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","何欣純","魯明哲","陳素月","黃健豪","林俊憲","蔡其昌","廖先翔","徐富癸","許智傑","邱若華","鍾佳濱","游顥","陳俊宇","張啓楷","陳冠廷"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142801_00014"}}}