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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"宏\", \"start\": 592.86, \"end\": 593.142, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"祿\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 593.142, \"end\": 593.665, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"休\", \"start\": 593.665, \"end\": 593.806, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 593.806, \"end\": 593.886, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 593.886, \"end\": 594.007, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 594.007, \"end\": 594.027, \"score\": 0.024}, {\"word\": \"鐘\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,153 --> 00:00:33,639\n來我請內政部長跟勞動部次長劉部長李次長有請稍微好來不敢齁來那個部長其實關於這個放假其實每個會期每一屆幾乎都有討論過吧對不對對那為什麼沒有辦法做成決定因為牽扯的太多了是不是\n\n2\n00:00:35,020 --> 00:00:59,516\n對因為加入太多不同的因素不是只有純粹訂定這個節日跟紀念日而已如果純粹訂定節日跟紀念日的話站在內政部的權責方向的話會比較單純但是因為牽涉到哪一個部門或是哪一個企業或是哪一個職業哪一種身份要放假那放假的問題就是一個很大需要大家有不同的爭點需要有泥鋸共識\n\n3\n00:01:00,917 --> 00:01:23,819\n對嘛所以部長其實剛剛那個遊委員在問的時候有說什麼這個放假日要不要增加其實我覺得部長整個內政部目前應該也是持開放的態度但是大家要討論嘛是的沒錯是不是開放的討論是開放的大家要討論嘛因為這牽扯到\n\n4\n00:01:25,696 --> 00:01:49,119\n其他部會啊對不對我剛剛也有委員在問啊好啊要家庭日要什麼我想請問一下春節連假是不是都很多天是今年剛過去的滿多天的每年都有好幾天啦對不對那關於交通運輸業的勞工要不要上班\n\n5\n00:01:49,758 --> 00:02:07,909\n他們當然都要上班而且要上非常常識的班不管交通運輸業或是其他的服務業或者是警察或者是消防等等這些都是要24小時待班的我們先不用管到警消我們先講一般的對不對你一般的我們就做簡單的出國搭飛機\n\n6\n00:02:11,653 --> 00:02:28,337\n要不要有空服人員要不要有人服務你飛機才能飛啊對不對那你就要反加你的公車你的這個高鐵要不要有人開這些的勞工是不是有上班啊這個可以請勞動部次長回答\n\n7\n00:02:30,458 --> 00:02:49,437\n那個先前我報告的時候已經提到我們很多行業他是一般的民眾在放假休息的時候他反而是他的工作的高峰期他必須要輪班來提供服務符合大眾需要對嘛再來這個是大型的如果是小型企業\n\n8\n00:02:51,178 --> 00:03:04,804\n兩三個人的這種小型企業他們沒有辦法就我必須要講他有辦法說如果沒逢放假日他就放假嗎\n\n9\n00:03:07,577 --> 00:03:26,076\n這個就像剛剛我講如果是像觀光業、旅宿業甚至運輸業、航空業他們就是一般民眾在休息的時候他就是他服務的高峰他可能就沒有辦法我們先不管啦一個小管制他可能請的服務人員只有兩三個啊對不對那放假日他要不要上班\n\n10\n00:03:27,748 --> 00:03:45,584\n你也不能說他要不要上班吧對不對但有可能老闆請他來上班啊對不對那他如果來上班當然就要加倍的薪資啊啊不然他就不然他就是這個老闆娘可能就把店關掉了啊沒有人啊對不對那再來大型的企業\n\n11\n00:03:47,060 --> 00:03:57,299\n我們舉台積電或什麼大型的是不是都三班輪流制基本上都是輪班制的日月輪班他們受的衝擊\n\n12\n00:03:59,229 --> 00:04:21,604\n可能就比較小一點對不對是不是啊還是一樣衝擊很大你說衝擊還是蠻大的這種日夜輪班制如果他剛好碰到那個要放假的話國定假他一樣因為他排班就要出席那你還是要給他那個工資要加倍的我必須說啦工資加倍像大型企業\n\n13\n00:04:22,847 --> 00:04:34,226\n他還可以承擔啦還不至於把他逼出走啦但我剛舉的那種小型企業老闆老闆娘可能就我覺得我不要做了啊\n\n14\n00:04:35,265 --> 00:05:01,617\n對不對你有沒有看到很多那種小管子或什麼的他因為沒有請不到人所以他歇業社長報紙你有沒有常看到有有去年開始就陸續有這種報導有嘛對不對所以你說要不要放假我覺得這可以討論但如果說我現在看到這20幾個版本哇\n\n15\n00:05:02,935 --> 00:05:28,579\n又要有紀念日又要放假我覺得這樣子沒有好好的討論我真的覺得不行這個會造成混亂所以劉部長我個人是覺得你現在有很多的這一種紀念日其實我們現在就是有紀念沒有放假是不是是的有相當多是屬於有紀念沒放假的\n\n16\n00:05:29,673 --> 00:05:55,343\n所以我們在討論這一個我們要不要修法的這個問題上我覺得我們應該要先確定一個紀念日可能很多有兩種一種是全國或是因為風俗民情的那種紀念日那種是全國全台灣一致的那一種可能是對特定的可能軍人節警察節什麼的這部分人的是不是應該要先把它分成這兩種\n\n17\n00:05:56,494 --> 00:06:20,212\n是在我們的實施辦法我們自己的實施法則裡面就是提到是這一方面的沒有錯所以相當多您所提到的什麼軍人節警察節消防節或是甚至兵役節等等這些它其實就是有紀念但是沒有放假對嘛我們要先分成這樣嘛這一個那再來\n\n18\n00:06:22,544 --> 00:06:36,062\n以現行的法律條文的制度有沒有需要修法沒有修法要不要去增加放假或什麼的其實你們本來就有紀念日的放假辦法了吧\n\n19\n00:06:37,236 --> 00:07:00,254\n本来就有但是我们现在我跟委员报告一下委员非常的清楚其实我们在处理有关于放假与否都是以行政院人事总处在前一年度的年底的时候对外公布让很多公部门或是很多其他的大型企业部门可以跟着这样子的放假的脚步所以我们认为这样比较有弹性包括补班\n\n20\n00:07:00,774 --> 00:07:18,582\n不不不部長你說的那個是私刑的現行的制度現行他只是說規定放假幾天什麼我的意思是說以如果我們剛剛講的紀念日分兩種那種其實要不要其實這個在內政部裡面的辦法裡面就可以處理這個問題是的對不對對\n\n21\n00:07:20,683 --> 00:07:37,016\n不用修法你們就可以處理了吧對嘛這是一個嘛所以我們應該要聚焦到說你的辦法目前就可以處理這一個問題對不對部長是所以才會衍生第二個要不要放假要怎麼樣的問題吧對不對是\n\n22\n00:07:40,020 --> 00:07:54,105\n是的對不對那個放假什麼的那是第二個問題所以我在說我們今天在討論這個法律我必須要說大家要及時廣義啦不是不能討論但急不得因為它牽扯得太廣了\n\n23\n00:07:55,686 --> 00:07:58,648\n我們應該把它分成幾個區塊來討論然後牽扯那麼多部會一個一個來處理我覺得這樣子才是一個負責任的做法我不知道部長跟次長你們的看法\n\n24\n00:08:12,140 --> 00:08:33,121\n我先來回答啦剛剛那個委員召委所提到的部分在我們現行的紀念日跟節日實施辦法裡面的第五條之二他就有特別提到說規定紀念日跟節日以外具特殊意義有慶祝或舉辦活動必要之日由目的事業主管機關會商有關機關訂定實施之\n\n25\n00:08:35,063 --> 00:08:53,829\n也就是說現行的這個實施辦法呢其實就已經可以解決現在大家所關心的這個不同的議題那如果把它變成是一個法律案的話我們有可能每一年不同的放假那每一年都要回到立法院再修一次法律那這個會增加這個法律上適用的一個彈性程度對對好那次長你簡單說\n\n26\n00:08:56,870 --> 00:09:21,818\n勞動部主張就是說必須要通盤檢討各行各業的餘營模式還有工作狀況那還有我們特別關心勞工的期待跟需求讓勞工能夠更好的休息對啦所以啦其實以現有的辦法也可以解決然後各部會其實也都持開放的態度要來解決這個問題只是我們應該要多討論那其實啦有一個重點啦\n\n27\n00:09:23,086 --> 00:09:49,060\n今年的放假人事行政總局他都已經公布了啦你要也很難去修改去增加啦所以我們還有半年的時間可以好好來討論這個問題明年把它解決啦我覺得這才是我們應該要去解決的方案那我們也不一定說要拖到半年但是就是時間充裕我認為應該要多多的討論這因為畢竟影響各行各業太多了啦好謝謝\n\n28\n00:09:52,196 --> 00:09:54,027\n好謝謝張宏祿委員休息三分鐘\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9153\t33639\t來 我請內政部長跟勞動部次長劉部長 李次長有請稍微好來 不敢齁 來那個部長 其實關於這個放假其實每個會期 每一屆幾乎都有討論過吧 對不對對那為什麼沒有辦法做成決定因為牽扯的太多了 是不是\n35020\t59516\t對 因為加入太多不同的因素不是只有純粹訂定這個節日跟紀念日而已如果純粹訂定節日跟紀念日的話站在內政部的權責方向的話會比較單純但是因為牽涉到哪一個部門或是哪一個企業或是哪一個職業哪一種身份要放假那放假的問題就是一個很大需要大家有不同的爭點 需要有泥鋸共識\n60917\t83819\t對嘛 所以部長其實剛剛那個遊委員在問的時候有說什麼這個放假日要不要增加其實我覺得部長整個內政部目前應該也是持開放的態度但是大家要討論嘛 是的沒錯是不是開放的討論 是開放的大家要討論嘛 因為這牽扯到\n85696\t109119\t其他部會啊對不對 我剛剛也有委員在問啊好啊 要家庭日要什麼 我想請問一下春節連假是不是都很多天是 今年剛過去的滿多天的每年都有好幾天啦 對不對那關於交通運輸業的勞工要不要上班\n109758\t127909\t他們當然都要上班而且要上非常常識的班不管交通運輸業或是其他的服務業或者是警察或者是消防等等這些都是要24小時待班的我們先不用管到警消我們先講一般的對不對你一般的我們就做簡單的出國搭飛機\n131653\t148337\t要不要有空服人員要不要有人服務你飛機才能飛啊對不對那你就要反加你的公車你的這個高鐵要不要有人開這些的勞工是不是有上班啊這個可以請勞動部次長回答\n150458\t169437\t那個先前我報告的時候已經提到我們很多行業他是一般的民眾在放假休息的時候他反而是他的工作的高峰期他必須要輪班來提供服務符合大眾需要對嘛再來這個是大型的如果是小型企業\n171178\t184804\t兩三個人的這種小型企業他們沒有辦法就我必須要講他有辦法說如果沒逢放假日他就放假嗎\n187577\t206076\t這個就像剛剛我講如果是像觀光業、旅宿業甚至運輸業、航空業他們就是一般民眾在休息的時候他就是他服務的高峰他可能就沒有辦法我們先不管啦一個小管制他可能請的服務人員只有兩三個啊對不對那放假日他要不要上班\n207748\t225584\t你也不能說他要不要上班吧對不對但有可能老闆請他來上班啊對不對那他如果來上班當然就要加倍的薪資啊啊不然他就不然他就是這個老闆娘可能就把店關掉了啊沒有人啊對不對那再來大型的企業\n227060\t237299\t我們舉台積電或什麼大型的是不是都三班輪流制基本上都是輪班制的日月輪班他們受的衝擊\n239229\t261604\t可能就比較小一點對不對是不是啊還是一樣衝擊很大你說衝擊還是蠻大的這種日夜輪班制如果他剛好碰到那個要放假的話國定假他一樣因為他排班就要出席那你還是要給他那個工資要加倍的我必須說啦工資加倍像大型企業\n262847\t274226\t他還可以承擔啦還不至於把他逼出走啦但我剛舉的那種小型企業老闆老闆娘可能就我覺得我不要做了啊\n275265\t301617\t對不對你有沒有看到很多那種小管子或什麼的他因為沒有請不到人所以他歇業社長報紙你有沒有常看到有有去年開始就陸續有這種報導有嘛對不對所以你說要不要放假我覺得這可以討論但如果說我現在看到這20幾個版本哇\n302935\t328579\t又要有紀念日又要放假我覺得這樣子沒有好好的討論我真的覺得不行這個會造成混亂所以劉部長我個人是覺得你現在有很多的這一種紀念日其實我們現在就是有紀念沒有放假是不是是的有相當多是屬於有紀念沒放假的\n329673\t355343\t所以我們在討論這一個我們要不要修法的這個問題上我覺得我們應該要先確定一個紀念日可能很多有兩種一種是全國或是因為風俗民情的那種紀念日那種是全國全台灣一致的那一種可能是對特定的可能軍人節警察節什麼的這部分人的是不是應該要先把它分成這兩種\n356494\t380212\t是 在我們的實施辦法 我們自己的實施法則裡面就是提到是這一方面的沒有錯所以相當多您所提到的什麼軍人節 警察節 消防節或是甚至兵役節等等這些它其實就是有紀念 但是沒有放假對嘛 我們要先分成這樣嘛 這一個那再來\n382544\t396062\t以現行的法律條文的制度有沒有需要修法沒有修法要不要去增加放假或什麼的其實你們本來就有紀念日的放假辦法了吧\n397236\t420254\t本来就有但是我们现在我跟委员报告一下委员非常的清楚其实我们在处理有关于放假与否都是以行政院人事总处在前一年度的年底的时候对外公布让很多公部门或是很多其他的大型企业部门可以跟着这样子的放假的脚步所以我们认为这样比较有弹性包括补班\n420774\t438582\t不不不部長你說的那個是私刑的現行的制度現行他只是說規定放假幾天什麼我的意思是說以如果我們剛剛講的紀念日分兩種那種其實要不要其實這個在內政部裡面的辦法裡面就可以處理這個問題是的對不對對\n440683\t457016\t不用修法你們就可以處理了吧對嘛這是一個嘛所以我們應該要聚焦到說你的辦法目前就可以處理這一個問題對不對部長是所以才會衍生第二個要不要放假要怎麼樣的問題吧對不對是\n460020\t474105\t是的對不對那個放假什麼的那是第二個問題所以我在說我們今天在討論這個法律我必須要說大家要及時廣義啦不是不能討論但急不得因為它牽扯得太廣了\n475686\t478648\t我們應該把它分成幾個區塊來討論然後牽扯那麼多部會一個一個來處理我覺得這樣子才是一個負責任的做法我不知道部長跟次長你們的看法\n492140\t513121\t我先來回答啦剛剛那個委員召委所提到的部分在我們現行的紀念日跟節日實施辦法裡面的第五條之二他就有特別提到說規定紀念日跟節日以外具特殊意義有慶祝或舉辦活動必要之日由目的事業主管機關會商有關機關訂定實施之\n515063\t533829\t也就是說現行的這個實施辦法呢其實就已經可以解決現在大家所關心的這個不同的議題那如果把它變成是一個法律案的話我們有可能每一年不同的放假那每一年都要回到立法院再修一次法律那這個會增加這個法律上適用的一個彈性程度對對好 那次長你簡單說\n536870\t561818\t勞動部主張就是說必須要通盤檢討各行各業的餘營模式還有工作狀況那還有我們特別關心勞工的期待跟需求讓勞工能夠更好的休息對啦所以啦其實以現有的辦法也可以解決然後各部會其實也都持開放的態度要來解決這個問題只是我們應該要多討論那其實啦有一個重點啦\n563086\t589060\t今年的放假人事行政總局他都已經公布了啦你要也很難去修改去增加啦所以我們還有半年的時間可以好好來討論這個問題明年把它解決啦我覺得這才是我們應該要去解決的方案那我們也不一定說要拖到半年但是就是時間充裕我認為應該要多多的討論這因為畢竟影響各行各業太多了啦好 謝謝\n592196\t594027\t好 謝謝張宏祿委員 休息三分鐘\n","txt":"來 我請內政部長跟勞動部次長劉部長 李次長有請稍微好來 不敢齁 來那個部長 其實關於這個放假其實每個會期 每一屆幾乎都有討論過吧 對不對對那為什麼沒有辦法做成決定因為牽扯的太多了 是不是\n對 因為加入太多不同的因素不是只有純粹訂定這個節日跟紀念日而已如果純粹訂定節日跟紀念日的話站在內政部的權責方向的話會比較單純但是因為牽涉到哪一個部門或是哪一個企業或是哪一個職業哪一種身份要放假那放假的問題就是一個很大需要大家有不同的爭點 需要有泥鋸共識\n對嘛 所以部長其實剛剛那個遊委員在問的時候有說什麼這個放假日要不要增加其實我覺得部長整個內政部目前應該也是持開放的態度但是大家要討論嘛 是的沒錯是不是開放的討論 是開放的大家要討論嘛 因為這牽扯到\n其他部會啊對不對 我剛剛也有委員在問啊好啊 要家庭日要什麼 我想請問一下春節連假是不是都很多天是 今年剛過去的滿多天的每年都有好幾天啦 對不對那關於交通運輸業的勞工要不要上班\n他們當然都要上班而且要上非常常識的班不管交通運輸業或是其他的服務業或者是警察或者是消防等等這些都是要24小時待班的我們先不用管到警消我們先講一般的對不對你一般的我們就做簡單的出國搭飛機\n要不要有空服人員要不要有人服務你飛機才能飛啊對不對那你就要反加你的公車你的這個高鐵要不要有人開這些的勞工是不是有上班啊這個可以請勞動部次長回答\n那個先前我報告的時候已經提到我們很多行業他是一般的民眾在放假休息的時候他反而是他的工作的高峰期他必須要輪班來提供服務符合大眾需要對嘛再來這個是大型的如果是小型企業\n兩三個人的這種小型企業他們沒有辦法就我必須要講他有辦法說如果沒逢放假日他就放假嗎\n這個就像剛剛我講如果是像觀光業、旅宿業甚至運輸業、航空業他們就是一般民眾在休息的時候他就是他服務的高峰他可能就沒有辦法我們先不管啦一個小管制他可能請的服務人員只有兩三個啊對不對那放假日他要不要上班\n你也不能說他要不要上班吧對不對但有可能老闆請他來上班啊對不對那他如果來上班當然就要加倍的薪資啊啊不然他就不然他就是這個老闆娘可能就把店關掉了啊沒有人啊對不對那再來大型的企業\n我們舉台積電或什麼大型的是不是都三班輪流制基本上都是輪班制的日月輪班他們受的衝擊\n可能就比較小一點對不對是不是啊還是一樣衝擊很大你說衝擊還是蠻大的這種日夜輪班制如果他剛好碰到那個要放假的話國定假他一樣因為他排班就要出席那你還是要給他那個工資要加倍的我必須說啦工資加倍像大型企業\n他還可以承擔啦還不至於把他逼出走啦但我剛舉的那種小型企業老闆老闆娘可能就我覺得我不要做了啊\n對不對你有沒有看到很多那種小管子或什麼的他因為沒有請不到人所以他歇業社長報紙你有沒有常看到有有去年開始就陸續有這種報導有嘛對不對所以你說要不要放假我覺得這可以討論但如果說我現在看到這20幾個版本哇\n又要有紀念日又要放假我覺得這樣子沒有好好的討論我真的覺得不行這個會造成混亂所以劉部長我個人是覺得你現在有很多的這一種紀念日其實我們現在就是有紀念沒有放假是不是是的有相當多是屬於有紀念沒放假的\n所以我們在討論這一個我們要不要修法的這個問題上我覺得我們應該要先確定一個紀念日可能很多有兩種一種是全國或是因為風俗民情的那種紀念日那種是全國全台灣一致的那一種可能是對特定的可能軍人節警察節什麼的這部分人的是不是應該要先把它分成這兩種\n是 在我們的實施辦法 我們自己的實施法則裡面就是提到是這一方面的沒有錯所以相當多您所提到的什麼軍人節 警察節 消防節或是甚至兵役節等等這些它其實就是有紀念 但是沒有放假對嘛 我們要先分成這樣嘛 這一個那再來\n以現行的法律條文的制度有沒有需要修法沒有修法要不要去增加放假或什麼的其實你們本來就有紀念日的放假辦法了吧\n本来就有但是我们现在我跟委员报告一下委员非常的清楚其实我们在处理有关于放假与否都是以行政院人事总处在前一年度的年底的时候对外公布让很多公部门或是很多其他的大型企业部门可以跟着这样子的放假的脚步所以我们认为这样比较有弹性包括补班\n不不不部長你說的那個是私刑的現行的制度現行他只是說規定放假幾天什麼我的意思是說以如果我們剛剛講的紀念日分兩種那種其實要不要其實這個在內政部裡面的辦法裡面就可以處理這個問題是的對不對對\n不用修法你們就可以處理了吧對嘛這是一個嘛所以我們應該要聚焦到說你的辦法目前就可以處理這一個問題對不對部長是所以才會衍生第二個要不要放假要怎麼樣的問題吧對不對是\n是的對不對那個放假什麼的那是第二個問題所以我在說我們今天在討論這個法律我必須要說大家要及時廣義啦不是不能討論但急不得因為它牽扯得太廣了\n我們應該把它分成幾個區塊來討論然後牽扯那麼多部會一個一個來處理我覺得這樣子才是一個負責任的做法我不知道部長跟次長你們的看法\n我先來回答啦剛剛那個委員召委所提到的部分在我們現行的紀念日跟節日實施辦法裡面的第五條之二他就有特別提到說規定紀念日跟節日以外具特殊意義有慶祝或舉辦活動必要之日由目的事業主管機關會商有關機關訂定實施之\n也就是說現行的這個實施辦法呢其實就已經可以解決現在大家所關心的這個不同的議題那如果把它變成是一個法律案的話我們有可能每一年不同的放假那每一年都要回到立法院再修一次法律那這個會增加這個法律上適用的一個彈性程度對對好 那次長你簡單說\n勞動部主張就是說必須要通盤檢討各行各業的餘營模式還有工作狀況那還有我們特別關心勞工的期待跟需求讓勞工能夠更好的休息對啦所以啦其實以現有的辦法也可以解決然後各部會其實也都持開放的態度要來解決這個問題只是我們應該要多討論那其實啦有一個重點啦\n今年的放假人事行政總局他都已經公布了啦你要也很難去修改去增加啦所以我們還有半年的時間可以好好來討論這個問題明年把它解決啦我覺得這才是我們應該要去解決的方案那我們也不一定說要拖到半年但是就是時間充裕我認為應該要多多的討論這因為畢竟影響各行各業太多了啦好 謝謝\n好 謝謝張宏祿委員 休息三分鐘\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.153 --> 00:33.639\n來我請內政部長跟勞動部次長劉部長李次長有請稍微好來不敢齁來那個部長其實關於這個放假其實每個會期每一屆幾乎都有討論過吧對不對對那為什麼沒有辦法做成決定因為牽扯的太多了是不是\n\n00:35.020 --> 00:59.516\n對因為加入太多不同的因素不是只有純粹訂定這個節日跟紀念日而已如果純粹訂定節日跟紀念日的話站在內政部的權責方向的話會比較單純但是因為牽涉到哪一個部門或是哪一個企業或是哪一個職業哪一種身份要放假那放假的問題就是一個很大需要大家有不同的爭點需要有泥鋸共識\n\n01:00.917 --> 01:23.819\n對嘛所以部長其實剛剛那個遊委員在問的時候有說什麼這個放假日要不要增加其實我覺得部長整個內政部目前應該也是持開放的態度但是大家要討論嘛是的沒錯是不是開放的討論是開放的大家要討論嘛因為這牽扯到\n\n01:25.696 --> 01:49.119\n其他部會啊對不對我剛剛也有委員在問啊好啊要家庭日要什麼我想請問一下春節連假是不是都很多天是今年剛過去的滿多天的每年都有好幾天啦對不對那關於交通運輸業的勞工要不要上班\n\n01:49.758 --> 02:07.909\n他們當然都要上班而且要上非常常識的班不管交通運輸業或是其他的服務業或者是警察或者是消防等等這些都是要24小時待班的我們先不用管到警消我們先講一般的對不對你一般的我們就做簡單的出國搭飛機\n\n02:11.653 --> 02:28.337\n要不要有空服人員要不要有人服務你飛機才能飛啊對不對那你就要反加你的公車你的這個高鐵要不要有人開這些的勞工是不是有上班啊這個可以請勞動部次長回答\n\n02:30.458 --> 02:49.437\n那個先前我報告的時候已經提到我們很多行業他是一般的民眾在放假休息的時候他反而是他的工作的高峰期他必須要輪班來提供服務符合大眾需要對嘛再來這個是大型的如果是小型企業\n\n02:51.178 --> 03:04.804\n兩三個人的這種小型企業他們沒有辦法就我必須要講他有辦法說如果沒逢放假日他就放假嗎\n\n03:07.577 --> 03:26.076\n這個就像剛剛我講如果是像觀光業、旅宿業甚至運輸業、航空業他們就是一般民眾在休息的時候他就是他服務的高峰他可能就沒有辦法我們先不管啦一個小管制他可能請的服務人員只有兩三個啊對不對那放假日他要不要上班\n\n03:27.748 --> 03:45.584\n你也不能說他要不要上班吧對不對但有可能老闆請他來上班啊對不對那他如果來上班當然就要加倍的薪資啊啊不然他就不然他就是這個老闆娘可能就把店關掉了啊沒有人啊對不對那再來大型的企業\n\n03:47.060 --> 03:57.299\n我們舉台積電或什麼大型的是不是都三班輪流制基本上都是輪班制的日月輪班他們受的衝擊\n\n03:59.229 --> 04:21.604\n可能就比較小一點對不對是不是啊還是一樣衝擊很大你說衝擊還是蠻大的這種日夜輪班制如果他剛好碰到那個要放假的話國定假他一樣因為他排班就要出席那你還是要給他那個工資要加倍的我必須說啦工資加倍像大型企業\n\n04:22.847 --> 04:34.226\n他還可以承擔啦還不至於把他逼出走啦但我剛舉的那種小型企業老闆老闆娘可能就我覺得我不要做了啊\n\n04:35.265 --> 05:01.617\n對不對你有沒有看到很多那種小管子或什麼的他因為沒有請不到人所以他歇業社長報紙你有沒有常看到有有去年開始就陸續有這種報導有嘛對不對所以你說要不要放假我覺得這可以討論但如果說我現在看到這20幾個版本哇\n\n05:02.935 --> 05:28.579\n又要有紀念日又要放假我覺得這樣子沒有好好的討論我真的覺得不行這個會造成混亂所以劉部長我個人是覺得你現在有很多的這一種紀念日其實我們現在就是有紀念沒有放假是不是是的有相當多是屬於有紀念沒放假的\n\n05:29.673 --> 05:55.343\n所以我們在討論這一個我們要不要修法的這個問題上我覺得我們應該要先確定一個紀念日可能很多有兩種一種是全國或是因為風俗民情的那種紀念日那種是全國全台灣一致的那一種可能是對特定的可能軍人節警察節什麼的這部分人的是不是應該要先把它分成這兩種\n\n05:56.494 --> 06:20.212\n是在我們的實施辦法我們自己的實施法則裡面就是提到是這一方面的沒有錯所以相當多您所提到的什麼軍人節警察節消防節或是甚至兵役節等等這些它其實就是有紀念但是沒有放假對嘛我們要先分成這樣嘛這一個那再來\n\n06:22.544 --> 06:36.062\n以現行的法律條文的制度有沒有需要修法沒有修法要不要去增加放假或什麼的其實你們本來就有紀念日的放假辦法了吧\n\n06:37.236 --> 07:00.254\n本来就有但是我们现在我跟委员报告一下委员非常的清楚其实我们在处理有关于放假与否都是以行政院人事总处在前一年度的年底的时候对外公布让很多公部门或是很多其他的大型企业部门可以跟着这样子的放假的脚步所以我们认为这样比较有弹性包括补班\n\n07:00.774 --> 07:18.582\n不不不部長你說的那個是私刑的現行的制度現行他只是說規定放假幾天什麼我的意思是說以如果我們剛剛講的紀念日分兩種那種其實要不要其實這個在內政部裡面的辦法裡面就可以處理這個問題是的對不對對\n\n07:20.683 --> 07:37.016\n不用修法你們就可以處理了吧對嘛這是一個嘛所以我們應該要聚焦到說你的辦法目前就可以處理這一個問題對不對部長是所以才會衍生第二個要不要放假要怎麼樣的問題吧對不對是\n\n07:40.020 --> 07:54.105\n是的對不對那個放假什麼的那是第二個問題所以我在說我們今天在討論這個法律我必須要說大家要及時廣義啦不是不能討論但急不得因為它牽扯得太廣了\n\n07:55.686 --> 07:58.648\n我們應該把它分成幾個區塊來討論然後牽扯那麼多部會一個一個來處理我覺得這樣子才是一個負責任的做法我不知道部長跟次長你們的看法\n\n08:12.140 --> 08:33.121\n我先來回答啦剛剛那個委員召委所提到的部分在我們現行的紀念日跟節日實施辦法裡面的第五條之二他就有特別提到說規定紀念日跟節日以外具特殊意義有慶祝或舉辦活動必要之日由目的事業主管機關會商有關機關訂定實施之\n\n08:35.063 --> 08:53.829\n也就是說現行的這個實施辦法呢其實就已經可以解決現在大家所關心的這個不同的議題那如果把它變成是一個法律案的話我們有可能每一年不同的放假那每一年都要回到立法院再修一次法律那這個會增加這個法律上適用的一個彈性程度對對好那次長你簡單說\n\n08:56.870 --> 09:21.818\n勞動部主張就是說必須要通盤檢討各行各業的餘營模式還有工作狀況那還有我們特別關心勞工的期待跟需求讓勞工能夠更好的休息對啦所以啦其實以現有的辦法也可以解決然後各部會其實也都持開放的態度要來解決這個問題只是我們應該要多討論那其實啦有一個重點啦\n\n09:23.086 --> 09:49.060\n今年的放假人事行政總局他都已經公布了啦你要也很難去修改去增加啦所以我們還有半年的時間可以好好來討論這個問題明年把它解決啦我覺得這才是我們應該要去解決的方案那我們也不一定說要拖到半年但是就是時間充裕我認為應該要多多的討論這因為畢竟影響各行各業太多了啦好謝謝\n\n09:52.196 --> 09:54.027\n好謝謝張宏祿委員休息三分鐘\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.153,"end":33.639,"text":"來 我請內政部長跟勞動部次長劉部長 李次長有請稍微好來 不敢齁 來那個部長 其實關於這個放假其實每個會期 每一屆幾乎都有討論過吧 對不對對那為什麼沒有辦法做成決定因為牽扯的太多了 是不是"},{"start":35.02,"end":59.516,"text":"對 因為加入太多不同的因素不是只有純粹訂定這個節日跟紀念日而已如果純粹訂定節日跟紀念日的話站在內政部的權責方向的話會比較單純但是因為牽涉到哪一個部門或是哪一個企業或是哪一個職業哪一種身份要放假那放假的問題就是一個很大需要大家有不同的爭點 需要有泥鋸共識"},{"start":60.917,"end":83.819,"text":"對嘛 所以部長其實剛剛那個遊委員在問的時候有說什麼這個放假日要不要增加其實我覺得部長整個內政部目前應該也是持開放的態度但是大家要討論嘛 是的沒錯是不是開放的討論 是開放的大家要討論嘛 因為這牽扯到"},{"start":85.696,"end":109.119,"text":"其他部會啊對不對 我剛剛也有委員在問啊好啊 要家庭日要什麼 我想請問一下春節連假是不是都很多天是 今年剛過去的滿多天的每年都有好幾天啦 對不對那關於交通運輸業的勞工要不要上班"},{"start":109.758,"end":127.909,"text":"他們當然都要上班而且要上非常常識的班不管交通運輸業或是其他的服務業或者是警察或者是消防等等這些都是要24小時待班的我們先不用管到警消我們先講一般的對不對你一般的我們就做簡單的出國搭飛機"},{"start":131.653,"end":148.337,"text":"要不要有空服人員要不要有人服務你飛機才能飛啊對不對那你就要反加你的公車你的這個高鐵要不要有人開這些的勞工是不是有上班啊這個可以請勞動部次長回答"},{"start":150.458,"end":169.437,"text":"那個先前我報告的時候已經提到我們很多行業他是一般的民眾在放假休息的時候他反而是他的工作的高峰期他必須要輪班來提供服務符合大眾需要對嘛再來這個是大型的如果是小型企業"},{"start":171.178,"end":184.804,"text":"兩三個人的這種小型企業他們沒有辦法就我必須要講他有辦法說如果沒逢放假日他就放假嗎"},{"start":187.577,"end":206.076,"text":"這個就像剛剛我講如果是像觀光業、旅宿業甚至運輸業、航空業他們就是一般民眾在休息的時候他就是他服務的高峰他可能就沒有辦法我們先不管啦一個小管制他可能請的服務人員只有兩三個啊對不對那放假日他要不要上班"},{"start":207.748,"end":225.584,"text":"你也不能說他要不要上班吧對不對但有可能老闆請他來上班啊對不對那他如果來上班當然就要加倍的薪資啊啊不然他就不然他就是這個老闆娘可能就把店關掉了啊沒有人啊對不對那再來大型的企業"},{"start":227.06,"end":237.299,"text":"我們舉台積電或什麼大型的是不是都三班輪流制基本上都是輪班制的日月輪班他們受的衝擊"},{"start":239.229,"end":261.604,"text":"可能就比較小一點對不對是不是啊還是一樣衝擊很大你說衝擊還是蠻大的這種日夜輪班制如果他剛好碰到那個要放假的話國定假他一樣因為他排班就要出席那你還是要給他那個工資要加倍的我必須說啦工資加倍像大型企業"},{"start":262.847,"end":274.226,"text":"他還可以承擔啦還不至於把他逼出走啦但我剛舉的那種小型企業老闆老闆娘可能就我覺得我不要做了啊"},{"start":275.265,"end":301.617,"text":"對不對你有沒有看到很多那種小管子或什麼的他因為沒有請不到人所以他歇業社長報紙你有沒有常看到有有去年開始就陸續有這種報導有嘛對不對所以你說要不要放假我覺得這可以討論但如果說我現在看到這20幾個版本哇"},{"start":302.935,"end":328.579,"text":"又要有紀念日又要放假我覺得這樣子沒有好好的討論我真的覺得不行這個會造成混亂所以劉部長我個人是覺得你現在有很多的這一種紀念日其實我們現在就是有紀念沒有放假是不是是的有相當多是屬於有紀念沒放假的"},{"start":329.673,"end":355.343,"text":"所以我們在討論這一個我們要不要修法的這個問題上我覺得我們應該要先確定一個紀念日可能很多有兩種一種是全國或是因為風俗民情的那種紀念日那種是全國全台灣一致的那一種可能是對特定的可能軍人節警察節什麼的這部分人的是不是應該要先把它分成這兩種"},{"start":356.494,"end":380.212,"text":"是 在我們的實施辦法 我們自己的實施法則裡面就是提到是這一方面的沒有錯所以相當多您所提到的什麼軍人節 警察節 消防節或是甚至兵役節等等這些它其實就是有紀念 但是沒有放假對嘛 我們要先分成這樣嘛 這一個那再來"},{"start":382.544,"end":396.062,"text":"以現行的法律條文的制度有沒有需要修法沒有修法要不要去增加放假或什麼的其實你們本來就有紀念日的放假辦法了吧"},{"start":397.236,"end":420.254,"text":"本来就有但是我们现在我跟委员报告一下委员非常的清楚其实我们在处理有关于放假与否都是以行政院人事总处在前一年度的年底的时候对外公布让很多公部门或是很多其他的大型企业部门可以跟着这样子的放假的脚步所以我们认为这样比较有弹性包括补班"},{"start":420.774,"end":438.582,"text":"不不不部長你說的那個是私刑的現行的制度現行他只是說規定放假幾天什麼我的意思是說以如果我們剛剛講的紀念日分兩種那種其實要不要其實這個在內政部裡面的辦法裡面就可以處理這個問題是的對不對對"},{"start":440.683,"end":457.016,"text":"不用修法你們就可以處理了吧對嘛這是一個嘛所以我們應該要聚焦到說你的辦法目前就可以處理這一個問題對不對部長是所以才會衍生第二個要不要放假要怎麼樣的問題吧對不對是"},{"start":460.02,"end":474.105,"text":"是的對不對那個放假什麼的那是第二個問題所以我在說我們今天在討論這個法律我必須要說大家要及時廣義啦不是不能討論但急不得因為它牽扯得太廣了"},{"start":475.686,"end":478.648,"text":"我們應該把它分成幾個區塊來討論然後牽扯那麼多部會一個一個來處理我覺得這樣子才是一個負責任的做法我不知道部長跟次長你們的看法"},{"start":492.14,"end":513.121,"text":"我先來回答啦剛剛那個委員召委所提到的部分在我們現行的紀念日跟節日實施辦法裡面的第五條之二他就有特別提到說規定紀念日跟節日以外具特殊意義有慶祝或舉辦活動必要之日由目的事業主管機關會商有關機關訂定實施之"},{"start":515.063,"end":533.829,"text":"也就是說現行的這個實施辦法呢其實就已經可以解決現在大家所關心的這個不同的議題那如果把它變成是一個法律案的話我們有可能每一年不同的放假那每一年都要回到立法院再修一次法律那這個會增加這個法律上適用的一個彈性程度對對好 那次長你簡單說"},{"start":536.87,"end":561.818,"text":"勞動部主張就是說必須要通盤檢討各行各業的餘營模式還有工作狀況那還有我們特別關心勞工的期待跟需求讓勞工能夠更好的休息對啦所以啦其實以現有的辦法也可以解決然後各部會其實也都持開放的態度要來解決這個問題只是我們應該要多討論那其實啦有一個重點啦"},{"start":563.086,"end":589.06,"text":"今年的放假人事行政總局他都已經公布了啦你要也很難去修改去增加啦所以我們還有半年的時間可以好好來討論這個問題明年把它解決啦我覺得這才是我們應該要去解決的方案那我們也不一定說要拖到半年但是就是時間充裕我認為應該要多多的討論這因為畢竟影響各行各業太多了啦好 謝謝"},{"start":592.196,"end":594.027,"text":"好 謝謝張宏祿委員 休息三分鐘"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":535,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（10時22分）我請內政部長跟勞動部次長。"],["主席：有請劉部長、李次長。"],["劉部長世芳：召委好。"],["張委員宏陸：部長，關於這個放假，其實每一屆、每個會期幾乎都有討論過，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["張委員宏陸：為什麼沒有辦法做成決定？因為牽扯的部分太多了，是不是？"],["劉部長世芳：對，因為加入太多不同的因素，不是只有純粹訂定節日跟紀念日而已，如果是純粹訂定節日跟紀念日，站在內政部的權責方向，我覺得會比較單純，但是因為又牽涉到哪一個部門，或是哪一個企業，或是哪一個職業，或是哪一種身分要放假的問題，大家有不同的爭點，需要凝聚共識。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛！剛剛有委員在問放假日要不要增加一事，其實我覺得整個內政部目前應該也是持開放的態度，但是大家要討論，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：是的，沒錯，是開放的。"],["張委員宏陸：大家來討論嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["張委員宏陸：因為這牽扯到其他部會，對不對？剛剛也有委員在問，要有所謂家庭日等等什麼的，我想請問一下，春節連假是不是都放很多天？"],["劉部長世芳：是，今年剛過去的春節連假是滿多天的。"],["張委員宏陸：每年都有好幾天，對不對？請問交通運輸業的勞工要不要上班？"],["劉部長世芳：他們當然都要上班，而且要上非常長時的班，不管交通運輸業或者是其他的服務業，或者是警察，或者是消防等等，這些都是24小時待班的。"],["張委員宏陸：先不用管到警消，我們先講一般的，簡單來說，出國搭飛機要不要有空服人員？要不要有人服務，飛機才能飛？返家時需要的公車或是高鐵，要不要有人開？這些勞工是不是有上班？請勞動部次長回答。"],["李次長健鴻：委員好。先前我報告的時候已經提到，很多行業是一般民眾在放假休息的時候，反而是他工作的高峰期，他必須輪班來提供服務，以符合大眾需要。"],["張委員宏陸：這個是大型的部分，如果是兩、三個人的小型企業，我必須要講，他們有辦法每逢放假日就放假嗎？"],["李次長健鴻：就像剛剛我講的，如果是觀光業、旅宿業，甚至是運輸業、航空業，一般民眾在休息的時候，就是他們服務的高峰，可能就沒有辦法放假。"],["張委員宏陸：我們先不管啦！像一個小館子，可能請的服務人員只有兩、三個，那放假日他要不要上班？有可能老闆請他要來上班，如果他來上班，當然就要發加倍的薪資，不然老闆娘可能就把店關掉了，因為沒有人來上班，對不對？再來，我們舉台積電或什麼大型企業為例，是不是都三班輪流制？"],["李次長健鴻：是，基本上都是日夜輪班制的。"],["張委員宏陸：就是日夜輪班，而他們受的衝擊可能就比較小一點，對不對？還是一樣衝擊很大呢？"],["李次長健鴻：衝擊還是滿大的，這種日夜輪班制，如果剛好碰到要放假、放國定假日，因為他排班了就要出勤，所以你還是要給他工資加倍。"],["張委員宏陸：我必須說，工資加倍，像大型企業還可以承擔，還不至於逼它出走，但我剛舉的那種小型企業，老闆、老闆娘可能就覺得乾脆不要做了，你有沒有看到很多小館子或是什麼的，因為請不到人，所以就歇業了，次長在報紙上有沒有常看到？"],["李次長健鴻：有，去年開始就陸續有這種報導。"],["張委員宏陸：有嘛！所以要不要放假，這是可以討論，而我現在看到這二十幾個版本，裡面又要有紀念日、又要放假，這樣子若沒有好好地討論，我真的覺得不行，這會造成混亂。劉部長，我個人覺得，現在有很多種紀念日，其實是有紀念、沒放假，是不是？"],["劉部長世芳：是的，有相當多是屬於有紀念、沒放假的。"],["張委員宏陸：所以我們在討論這個要不要修法的問題上，應該要先確定一個部分，紀念日有兩種，一種是全國或是因為風俗民情的那種紀念日，那種是全國、全臺灣一致的；一種可能是對特定人士的，可能是軍人節、警察節什麼的，所以是不是應該要先把它分成這兩種？"],["劉部長世芳：在我們的實施辦法、實施法則裡面，是有提到這一方面，沒有錯，像您所提到的警察節、消防節，甚至兵役節等等，其實就是有紀念但是沒有放假。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛！我們要先分成這樣。","再來，以現行法律條文的制度來看，有沒有需要修法？沒有修法，要不要去增加放假或什麼的，其實，你們本來就有紀念日的放假辦法了吧？"],["劉部長世芳：本來就有，但是我跟委員報告一下，委員非常清楚，其實我們在處理有關於放假與否，都是以行政院人事總處在前一年度年底的時候對外公布，讓很多公部門或是很多其他的大型企業部門可以跟著這樣放假的腳步，所以我們認為這樣比較有彈性，包括補班在內。"],["張委員宏陸：不！不！部長，你說的那個是施行的……"],["劉部長世芳：現行的制度。"],["張委員宏陸：現行只是規定放假幾天什麼的，我的意思是說，如果以我剛剛講的紀念日分兩種，那在內政部的辦法裡面就可以處理這個問題了，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：是的。"],["張委員宏陸：不用修法你們就可以處理了吧？"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["張委員宏陸：所以我們應該要聚焦的是你的辦法目前就可以處理這一個問題，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["張委員宏陸：所以才會衍生第二個要不要放假或是要怎麼樣的問題，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：是的。"],["張委員宏陸：所以我們今天在討論這個法律，我必須要說，大家要集思廣益，不是不能討論，但急不得，因為它牽扯得太廣了，我們應該把它分成幾個區塊來討論；而且也牽扯那麼多部會，應一個一個來處理，我覺得這樣子才是一個負責任的作法，部長跟次長你們的看法呢？"],["劉部長世芳：我先來回答，剛剛召委所提到的部分，在我們現行的紀念日及節日實施辦法第五條之二就有特別提到，紀念日跟節日以外具特殊意義，有慶祝或舉辦活動必要之日，得由目的事業主管機關會商有關機關訂定實施之。也就是說，現行的實施辦法，其實已經可以解決現在大家所關心的不同議題，如果把它變成是一個法律案的話，有可能每一年不同的放假，變成每一年都要回到立法院再修一次法律，這會增加法律適用的彈性程度。"],["張委員宏陸：對。請次長簡單說一下。"],["李次長健鴻：勞動部主張，必須要通盤檢討各行各業的營運模式還有工作狀況，還有，我們特別關心勞工的期待跟需求，讓勞工能夠有更好的休息。"],["張委員宏陸：所以其實現有的辦法也可以解決，然後各部會也都持開放的態度要來解決這個問題，只是我們應該要多討論。其實有一個重點，今年的放假，人事行政總處都已經公布了，即使你要改也很難去修改、去增加，所以我們還有半年的時間可以好好來討論這個問題，明年把它解決啦！我覺得這才是我們應該要採取的解決方案，那我們也不一定說要拖到半年，但是既然時間充裕，我認為應該要多多地討論，因為畢竟影響各行各業太多了，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張宏陸委員。","休息3分鐘。","休息（10時32分）","繼續開會（10時37分）"],["主席：報告各位同仁，我們繼續開會。","下一位我們請高金素梅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":472,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-3","speakers":["牛煦庭","洪孟楷","張智倫","陳玉珍","賴士葆","高金素梅","翁曉玲","林倩綺","麥玉珍","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","李柏毅","王美惠","黃捷","黃建賓","許宇甄","吳琪銘","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","黃國昌","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李彥秀","李坤城","葉元之","陳瑩"],"page_start":317,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員賴士葆等22人擬具「紀念日及節日實施法草案」案；二、審查委員高金素梅等18人\n擬具「紀念日及節日實施條例草案」案；三、審查委員陳瑩等16人擬具「國假暨文化節日實施條\n例草案」案；四、審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等17人擬具「國家紀念日及節日實施法\n草案」案；五、審查委員牛煦庭等22人擬具「紀念日及節日實施條例草案」案；六、審查委員陳\n玉珍等16 人擬具「中華民國國定紀念日與節日實施法草案」案；七、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具\n「紀念日及節日實施條例草案」案；八、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「國家紀念日及\n節日實施法草案」案；九、審查委員王鴻薇等19 人擬具「國家紀念日及節日實施法草案」案；\n十、審查委員許宇甄等19人擬具「紀念日及節日實施法草案」案；十一、審查委員楊瓊瓔等31人\n擬具「紀念日及節日實施條例草案」案；十二、審查委員林思銘等20人擬具「紀念日及節日實施\n條例草案」案；十三、審查委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「紀念日及節日實施條例草案」案；十四、審\n查委員葉元之等21人擬具「紀念日及節日實施條例草案」案；十五、審查委員林倩綺等20人擬具\n「國家紀念日及節日實施法草案」案；十六、審查委員許智傑等30人擬具「國定紀念日及節日實\n施條例草案」案；十七、審查委員魯明哲等16人擬具「紀念日及節日實施條例草案」案；十八、\n審查委員羅廷瑋等23人擬具「紀念日及節日實施條例草案」案；十九、審查委員洪孟楷等16人擬\n具「國定假日法草案」案；二十、審查委員張智倫等18人擬具「紀念日及節日實施條例草案」案\n【僅詢答及宣讀條文】","agenda_id":"1142701_00007"}}}