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\"會\"}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 97.479, \"end\": 97.579, \"score\": 0.585}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 97.579, \"end\": 97.599, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 97.599, \"end\": 97.719, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 97.719, \"end\": 97.819, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 97.819, \"end\": 97.839, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 101.6, \"end\": 121.441, \"text\": \"濕度會讓小微粒變大變成PM2.5可是事實上有沒有計畫增加就是各個點比較偵測密度比較高的地方有沒有增加點我們有比較好一點的很嚴格的堅定例如說自動跟手動的這個其實它的費用是很高的那很多這種所謂的IoT\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"濕\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 101.6, \"end\": 102.281, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 102.281, \"end\": 102.521, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"微\", \"start\": 102.521, \"end\": 102.702, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"粒\", \"start\": 102.702, \"end\": 103.142, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 103.142, \"end\": 103.642, 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\"start\": 106.365, \"end\": 106.626, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 106.626, \"end\": 106.786, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 106.786, \"end\": 107.126, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 107.126, \"end\": 110.069, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 110.069, \"end\": 110.329, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"偵\"}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 110.329, \"end\": 110.57, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 110.57, \"end\": 110.71, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 110.71, \"end\": 110.99, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 110.99, \"end\": 111.23, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 111.23, \"end\": 111.451, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 111.451, \"end\": 111.691, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 111.691, \"end\": 111.991, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 119.759, \"end\": 119.939, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 119.939, \"end\": 120.039, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 120.039, \"end\": 120.22, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 120.22, \"end\": 120.44, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 120.44, \"end\": 120.82, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 120.82, \"end\": 120.94, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 120.94, \"end\": 121.161, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 121.161, \"end\": 121.261, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 121.261, \"end\": 121.321, \"score\": 0.165}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 121.321, \"end\": 121.341, \"score\": 0.337}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 121.341, \"end\": 121.401, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"o\", \"start\": 121.401, \"end\": 121.421, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"T\", \"start\": 121.421, \"end\": 121.441, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 122.982, \"end\": 136.171, \"text\": \"這種自動型的那個便宜比較便宜可能就幾千塊一萬塊的那個可以再多因為一個是看趨勢一個看實質上的量那我們還我們國家目前還是以手動的監測因為他比有比較好的科學方法的論證會比較好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 122.982, \"end\": 123.322, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"型\", \"start\": 123.322, \"end\": 123.543, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 123.543, \"end\": 123.683, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 123.683, \"end\": 124.023, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"便\", \"start\": 124.023, \"end\": 124.223, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"宜\", \"start\": 124.223, \"end\": 124.323, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 124.323, \"end\": 124.563, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"便\", \"start\": 124.563, \"end\": 124.783, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"宜\", \"start\": 124.783, \"end\": 124.904, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"可\", 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{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 128.186, \"end\": 128.406, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 128.406, \"end\": 128.526, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 128.526, \"end\": 129.387, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"趨\"}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 129.387, \"end\": 129.607, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 129.607, \"end\": 130.007, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 130.007, \"end\": 130.167, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 130.167, \"end\": 130.287, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 130.287, \"end\": 130.768, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 130.768, \"end\": 130.888, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 130.888, \"end\": 131.328, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 131.328, \"end\": 131.768, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 636.089, \"end\": 636.109, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 636.109, \"end\": 636.129, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 636.129, \"end\": 636.249, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 636.249, \"end\": 636.269, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 636.269, \"end\": 636.289, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,293 --> 00:00:28,426\n謝謝主席有請環境部部長環境部目前運行的空瓶監測系統已經有很多年了\n\n2\n00:00:29,946 --> 00:00:57,233\n但是台灣的PM2.5濃度還是一樣偏高委員不會喔我們從8年前大概平均20降到12.8去年12.8是嗎對但是我們根據環環境部的統計就是台灣的部分地區年度啦經營PM2.5濃度能超過世界衛生組織在7歐的最新標準\n\n3\n00:00:57,853 --> 00:01:12,829\n所以請問部長你覺得說環境部你覺得是這樣子的你覺得是比較減少的話今天就不會排來去質詢所以說我們的定期檢討還有現行的監測點的數據是準確的嗎\n\n4\n00:01:16,953 --> 00:01:37,839\n如果準確的話為什麼會有這樣不準確是準確性的嗎不好委員手動跟自動本來就不一樣的東西例如說委員你在洗澡的時候對我說那個數據有準確嗎當然準確啊我們是按照一個法規自動跟手動的定義就不一樣我舉例例如說我們在浴室裡面我們要洗熱水澡一打開有水蒸氣那個水蒸氣呢就PM2.5就會超標因為水分子\n\n5\n00:01:41,600 --> 00:02:01,441\n濕度會讓小微粒變大變成PM2.5可是事實上有沒有計畫增加就是各個點比較偵測密度比較高的地方有沒有增加點我們有比較好一點的很嚴格的堅定例如說自動跟手動的這個其實它的費用是很高的那很多這種所謂的IoT\n\n6\n00:02:02,982 --> 00:02:16,171\n這種自動型的那個便宜比較便宜可能就幾千塊一萬塊的那個可以再多因為一個是看趨勢一個看實質上的量那我們還我們國家目前還是以手動的監測因為他比有比較好的科學方法的論證會比較好\n\n7\n00:02:18,304 --> 00:02:27,709\n但是我們看到的是不是你講的那麼完美所以我們除了就是監測數據問題之外還有過去我們看到的有企業有很多企業違反就是空屋房子的法規但是罰款就是比較偏低就導致就是違反成本比較低所以環境成本也比較沒辦法達成就是大家都遵守\n\n8\n00:02:48,119 --> 00:03:01,773\n所以我們環境部對於這樣子的企業是否有強力的監管的措施或者是提高他們的罰款才能就是減少空污\n\n9\n00:03:03,035 --> 00:03:19,188\n有嗎包委員這個我上任之後對於這種所謂的偷牌或是不實數據都是重罰的所以我也不知道有沒有注意到我們幾個月前我們曾經罰了一個漁船一個港啊大概一千多萬所以其實委員那個那個其實費用是很高的\n\n10\n00:03:20,127 --> 00:03:46,008\n費用很高為什麼還是一樣很多的空屋還有很多的企業就當然是說那個如石化鋼鐵還有就是燃燒發電等還有一些空屋的重要的來源還是一樣是沒辦法去改善才會造成現在的空屋所以我們台中空屋最嚴重了\n\n11\n00:03:47,649 --> 00:04:07,786\n委員其實我找到報告裡面有一張是我們所有的污染物的來源其實你說的是固定污染源也有移動污染源還有各種的污染源都在裡面那其實要大家改善一起改善才有辦法做得到所以剛才我們委員就是質詢了快要半個小時但是你要說去參加別人的\n\n12\n00:04:11,208 --> 00:04:36,504\n參加日本的所以我看到日本的VOC的管制很特別很特別但是我們要去考察就是看到別人要回來自己要改進或者是有一個措施來去製作要去規定嘛還有就是說一些企業我們就是要去罰款還有是要去溝通還有如何就是減少這樣子的空氣汙染\n\n13\n00:04:38,285 --> 00:04:59,496\n所以我們不是說我們去人家餓了自己放來沒辦法我們很積極的在處理規劃這個事情但是其實一個很例如說剛剛講的VOC其實它涉及到民生所有的產品委員你每天在用的噴髮膠等等全部都有要管制其實這個要方法的不然的話其實會造成很大民眾\n\n14\n00:05:00,837 --> 00:05:24,276\n我們正在規劃當中都是每次執行都是規劃中執行中討論中我們是正在進行當中都沒有真正的是這個一個明確的措施沒有沒有委員我們其實很多事情都積極的在推動當中但是有些事情涉及到很多的部會這真的要需要一些時間來做溝通要準備好才能夠推出來\n\n15\n00:05:25,148 --> 00:05:46,823\n好所以準備好也不知道準備到什麼時候所以我們希望說在我們的未來是不是有計畫加速燃煤電廠的檢排設備還有可不可以是升級還有說可不可以就是淘汰就是高污染的發電廠這樣子的話是不是可以重啟核電呢\n\n16\n00:05:54,403 --> 00:06:19,315\n有沒有這樣子的可能報告委員其實燃煤電廠當然舊的燃煤電廠它基本上是污染很嚴重但是如果它把CCS或是各種的空污減排做下去其實它也可以乾淨的但是我們還是希望由煤轉氣而是我們看到現在澳洲各國都是重新就是核電但是我們政府的錯誤政策讓我們的全民買單\n\n17\n00:06:22,877 --> 00:06:24,839\n現在下個月又說可能會漲電價所以看起來是非常不可我們的部長是不是承諾跟我們的人民說我們不會去漲價\n\n18\n00:06:34,599 --> 00:06:39,302\n這個電價不是我主管的我不能夠承諾這個事情啊對啊你沒有辦法承諾但是你們也要是真的是有跨部會來去來去協助來去討論才有說現在我們這邊的空氣汙染啊所有影響到大家就是頭腦鈍鈍啊問問不好回答也會不會回答這樣子啊是不是所以我們希望說我們是沒辦法漲價但是我們要去把關還有政策要\n\n19\n00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:14,567\n準確性不管是室內室外還有我們的汽車交通全部我們要希望大家要來去買電動車但是我們又沒有設備集權所以我們的空氣又在污染\n\n20\n00:07:22,072 --> 00:07:38,349\n這個部分我們也是要去跨部會來去討論不是說我們再問到我們的環境部交通部經濟部大家都說我們要去問其他部還是怎麼樣我們各部會都請大家民間要\n\n21\n00:07:40,872 --> 00:07:51,098\n聯合要是共同就是橫向來去討論但是我們各部會自己做自己的所以到最後說我們再來去問我們再來去討論所以不知道到民國幾年\n\n22\n00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:15,130\n所以我們希望我們台灣的空氣品質不關於是民眾的健康每天我們都是用就是空清氣的費來去吸這樣子的空氣所以我們希望說我們的空氣要好別人才會進來我們台灣來去投資還有移民還有居住這邊這安全所以我們交通的污染也是沒有去\n\n23\n00:08:24,554 --> 00:08:46,995\n去跨部會經濟部很多中小企業跟我們的環境部也沒有辦法去連結所以我們希望跨部會來去連結有一個具體的計畫讓我們知道說我們今年我們已經預算已經在補助了但是呢都沒有去有計畫怎麼去執行現在\n\n24\n00:08:49,777 --> 00:08:56,641\n都在去炒說什麼上預算但是有的預算為什麼沒有去規劃來去做呢還有我們是沒有我們的立法院沒有去說去上預算我們在今年我們年初的時候我們去審預算在2020年\n\n25\n00:09:11,990 --> 00:09:33,221\n4年的预算我们还没有省大家也是花光了对不对所以现在我们希望各部会真正的回到自己的岗位把自己该做的要来去规划跨部会来去讨论如何才会让我们的人民住的安心住的健康\n\n26\n00:09:34,281 --> 00:09:38,043\n所以這個部分希望我們的部長在空屋治理行動計畫要三個月內可不可以提出來讓我們來做參考說你真正的來去做我們不想聽到各部會都說我們再來討論我們回去再檢討我們再來去做我希望說我們要提出具體的\n\n27\n00:10:00,476 --> 00:10:26,175\n真正的去改善了空氣的品質讓我們國民享受更健康生活的環境可以嗎我們現在正在做的就是空品的白皮書為了未來五年整個我們空品改善策略第三期管制策略如何做得更好所以我們到時候下個月如果完成之後我們會再給委員請委員指標所以說下個月你就會有你可以提出具體的\n\n28\n00:10:27,717 --> 00:10:36,289\n計畫給我們不用三個月你現在就可以提出了我們正在努力在做就是等你提出具體的計畫真正的去執行謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11293\t28426\t謝謝主席 有請環境部部長環境部目前運行的空瓶監測系統已經有很多年了\n29946\t57233\t但是台灣的PM2.5濃度還是一樣偏高委員不會喔我們從8年前大概平均20降到12.8去年12.8是嗎對但是我們根據環環境部的統計就是台灣的部分地區年度啦經營PM2.5濃度能超過世界衛生組織在7歐的最新標準\n57853\t72829\t所以請問部長你覺得說環境部你覺得是這樣子的你覺得是比較減少的話今天就不會排來去質詢所以說我們的定期檢討還有現行的監測點的數據是準確的嗎\n76953\t97839\t如果準確的話為什麼會有這樣不準確是準確性的嗎不好委員手動跟自動本來就不一樣的東西例如說委員你在洗澡的時候對我說那個數據有準確嗎當然準確啊我們是按照一個法規自動跟手動的定義就不一樣我舉例例如說我們在浴室裡面我們要洗熱水澡一打開有水蒸氣那個水蒸氣呢就PM2.5就會超標因為水分子\n101600\t121441\t濕度會讓小微粒變大變成PM2.5可是事實上有沒有計畫增加就是各個點比較偵測密度比較高的地方有沒有增加點我們有比較好一點的很嚴格的堅定例如說自動跟手動的這個其實它的費用是很高的那很多這種所謂的IoT\n122982\t136171\t這種自動型的那個便宜比較便宜可能就幾千塊一萬塊的那個可以再多因為一個是看趨勢一個看實質上的量那我們還我們國家目前還是以手動的監測因為他比有比較好的科學方法的論證會比較好\n138304\t147709\t但是我們看到的是不是你講的那麼完美所以我們除了就是監測數據問題之外還有過去我們看到的有企業有很多企業違反就是空屋房子的法規但是罰款就是比較偏低就導致就是違反成本比較低所以環境成本也比較沒辦法達成就是大家都遵守\n168119\t181773\t所以我們環境部對於這樣子的企業是否有強力的監管的措施或者是提高他們的罰款才能就是減少空污\n183035\t199188\t有嗎包委員這個我上任之後對於這種所謂的偷牌或是不實數據都是重罰的所以我也不知道有沒有注意到我們幾個月前我們曾經罰了一個漁船一個港啊大概一千多萬所以其實委員那個那個其實費用是很高的\n200127\t226008\t費用很高為什麼還是一樣很多的空屋還有很多的企業就當然是說那個如石化鋼鐵還有就是燃燒發電等還有一些空屋的重要的來源還是一樣是沒辦法去改善才會造成現在的空屋所以我們台中空屋最嚴重了\n227649\t247786\t委員其實我找到報告裡面有一張是我們所有的污染物的來源其實你說的是固定污染源也有移動污染源還有各種的污染源都在裡面那其實要大家改善一起改善才有辦法做得到所以剛才我們委員就是質詢了快要半個小時但是你要說去參加別人的\n251208\t276504\t參加日本的所以我看到日本的VOC的管制很特別很特別但是我們要去考察就是看到別人要回來自己要改進或者是有一個措施來去製作要去規定嘛還有就是說一些企業我們就是要去罰款還有是要去溝通還有如何就是減少這樣子的空氣汙染\n278285\t299496\t所以我們不是說我們去人家餓了自己放來沒辦法我們很積極的在處理規劃這個事情但是其實一個很例如說剛剛講的VOC其實它涉及到民生所有的產品委員你每天在用的噴髮膠等等全部都有要管制其實這個要方法的不然的話其實會造成很大民眾\n300837\t324276\t我們正在規劃當中都是每次執行都是規劃中執行中討論中我們是正在進行當中都沒有真正的是這個一個明確的措施沒有沒有委員我們其實很多事情都積極的在推動當中但是有些事情涉及到很多的部會這真的要需要一些時間來做溝通要準備好才能夠推出來\n325148\t346823\t好 所以準備好也不知道準備到什麼時候所以我們希望說在我們的未來是不是有計畫加速燃煤電廠的檢排設備還有可不可以是升級還有說可不可以就是淘汰就是高污染的發電廠這樣子的話是不是可以重啟核電呢\n354403\t379315\t有沒有這樣子的可能報告委員其實燃煤電廠當然舊的燃煤電廠它基本上是污染很嚴重但是如果它把CCS或是各種的空污減排做下去其實它也可以乾淨的但是我們還是希望由煤轉氣而是我們看到現在澳洲各國都是重新就是核電但是我們政府的錯誤政策讓我們的全民買單\n382877\t384839\t現在下個月又說可能會漲電價所以看起來是非常不可我們的部長是不是承諾跟我們的人民說我們不會去漲價\n394599\t399302\t這個電價不是我主管的我不能夠承諾這個事情啊對啊你沒有辦法承諾但是你們也要是真的是有跨部會來去來去協助來去討論才有說現在我們這邊的空氣汙染啊所有影響到大家就是頭腦鈍鈍啊問問不好回答也會不會回答這樣子啊是不是所以我們希望說我們是沒辦法漲價但是我們要去把關還有政策要\n424040\t434567\t準確性不管是室內室外還有我們的汽車交通全部我們要希望大家要來去買電動車但是我們又沒有設備集權所以我們的空氣又在污染\n442072\t458349\t這個部分我們也是要去跨部會來去討論不是說我們再問到我們的環境部交通部經濟部大家都說我們要去問其他部還是怎麼樣我們各部會都請大家民間要\n460872\t471098\t聯合要是共同就是橫向來去討論但是我們各部會自己做自己的所以到最後說我們再來去問我們再來去討論所以不知道到民國幾年\n476120\t495130\t所以我們希望我們台灣的空氣品質不關於是民眾的健康每天我們都是用就是空清氣的費來去吸這樣子的空氣所以我們希望說我們的空氣要好別人才會進來我們台灣來去投資還有移民還有居住這邊這安全所以我們交通的污染也是沒有去\n504554\t526995\t去跨部會 經濟部很多中小企業跟我們的環境部也沒有辦法去連結 所以我們希望跨部會來去連結有一個具體的計畫讓我們知道說我們今年我們已經預算已經在補助了但是呢都沒有去有計畫怎麼去執行現在\n529777\t536641\t都在去炒說什麼上預算但是有的預算為什麼沒有去規劃來去做呢還有我們是沒有我們的立法院沒有去說去上預算我們在今年我們年初的時候我們去審預算在2020年\n551990\t573221\t4年的预算我们还没有省大家也是花光了对不对所以现在我们希望各部会真正的回到自己的岗位把自己该做的要来去规划跨部会来去讨论如何才会让我们的人民住的安心住的健康\n574281\t578043\t所以這個部分希望我們的部長在空屋治理行動計畫要三個月內可不可以提出來讓我們來做參考說你真正的來去做我們不想聽到各部會都說我們再來討論我們回去再檢討我們再來去做我希望說我們要提出具體的\n600476\t626175\t真正的去改善了空氣的品質讓我們國民享受更健康生活的環境可以嗎我們現在正在做的就是空品的白皮書為了未來五年整個我們空品改善策略第三期管制策略如何做得更好所以我們到時候下個月如果完成之後我們會再給委員請委員指標所以說下個月你就會有你可以提出具體的\n627717\t636289\t計畫給我們不用三個月你現在就可以提出了我們正在努力在做就是等你提出具體的計畫真正的去執行謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請環境部部長環境部目前運行的空瓶監測系統已經有很多年了\n但是台灣的PM2.5濃度還是一樣偏高委員不會喔我們從8年前大概平均20降到12.8去年12.8是嗎對但是我們根據環環境部的統計就是台灣的部分地區年度啦經營PM2.5濃度能超過世界衛生組織在7歐的最新標準\n所以請問部長你覺得說環境部你覺得是這樣子的你覺得是比較減少的話今天就不會排來去質詢所以說我們的定期檢討還有現行的監測點的數據是準確的嗎\n如果準確的話為什麼會有這樣不準確是準確性的嗎不好委員手動跟自動本來就不一樣的東西例如說委員你在洗澡的時候對我說那個數據有準確嗎當然準確啊我們是按照一個法規自動跟手動的定義就不一樣我舉例例如說我們在浴室裡面我們要洗熱水澡一打開有水蒸氣那個水蒸氣呢就PM2.5就會超標因為水分子\n濕度會讓小微粒變大變成PM2.5可是事實上有沒有計畫增加就是各個點比較偵測密度比較高的地方有沒有增加點我們有比較好一點的很嚴格的堅定例如說自動跟手動的這個其實它的費用是很高的那很多這種所謂的IoT\n這種自動型的那個便宜比較便宜可能就幾千塊一萬塊的那個可以再多因為一個是看趨勢一個看實質上的量那我們還我們國家目前還是以手動的監測因為他比有比較好的科學方法的論證會比較好\n但是我們看到的是不是你講的那麼完美所以我們除了就是監測數據問題之外還有過去我們看到的有企業有很多企業違反就是空屋房子的法規但是罰款就是比較偏低就導致就是違反成本比較低所以環境成本也比較沒辦法達成就是大家都遵守\n所以我們環境部對於這樣子的企業是否有強力的監管的措施或者是提高他們的罰款才能就是減少空污\n有嗎包委員這個我上任之後對於這種所謂的偷牌或是不實數據都是重罰的所以我也不知道有沒有注意到我們幾個月前我們曾經罰了一個漁船一個港啊大概一千多萬所以其實委員那個那個其實費用是很高的\n費用很高為什麼還是一樣很多的空屋還有很多的企業就當然是說那個如石化鋼鐵還有就是燃燒發電等還有一些空屋的重要的來源還是一樣是沒辦法去改善才會造成現在的空屋所以我們台中空屋最嚴重了\n委員其實我找到報告裡面有一張是我們所有的污染物的來源其實你說的是固定污染源也有移動污染源還有各種的污染源都在裡面那其實要大家改善一起改善才有辦法做得到所以剛才我們委員就是質詢了快要半個小時但是你要說去參加別人的\n參加日本的所以我看到日本的VOC的管制很特別很特別但是我們要去考察就是看到別人要回來自己要改進或者是有一個措施來去製作要去規定嘛還有就是說一些企業我們就是要去罰款還有是要去溝通還有如何就是減少這樣子的空氣汙染\n所以我們不是說我們去人家餓了自己放來沒辦法我們很積極的在處理規劃這個事情但是其實一個很例如說剛剛講的VOC其實它涉及到民生所有的產品委員你每天在用的噴髮膠等等全部都有要管制其實這個要方法的不然的話其實會造成很大民眾\n我們正在規劃當中都是每次執行都是規劃中執行中討論中我們是正在進行當中都沒有真正的是這個一個明確的措施沒有沒有委員我們其實很多事情都積極的在推動當中但是有些事情涉及到很多的部會這真的要需要一些時間來做溝通要準備好才能夠推出來\n好 所以準備好也不知道準備到什麼時候所以我們希望說在我們的未來是不是有計畫加速燃煤電廠的檢排設備還有可不可以是升級還有說可不可以就是淘汰就是高污染的發電廠這樣子的話是不是可以重啟核電呢\n有沒有這樣子的可能報告委員其實燃煤電廠當然舊的燃煤電廠它基本上是污染很嚴重但是如果它把CCS或是各種的空污減排做下去其實它也可以乾淨的但是我們還是希望由煤轉氣而是我們看到現在澳洲各國都是重新就是核電但是我們政府的錯誤政策讓我們的全民買單\n現在下個月又說可能會漲電價所以看起來是非常不可我們的部長是不是承諾跟我們的人民說我們不會去漲價\n這個電價不是我主管的我不能夠承諾這個事情啊對啊你沒有辦法承諾但是你們也要是真的是有跨部會來去來去協助來去討論才有說現在我們這邊的空氣汙染啊所有影響到大家就是頭腦鈍鈍啊問問不好回答也會不會回答這樣子啊是不是所以我們希望說我們是沒辦法漲價但是我們要去把關還有政策要\n準確性不管是室內室外還有我們的汽車交通全部我們要希望大家要來去買電動車但是我們又沒有設備集權所以我們的空氣又在污染\n這個部分我們也是要去跨部會來去討論不是說我們再問到我們的環境部交通部經濟部大家都說我們要去問其他部還是怎麼樣我們各部會都請大家民間要\n聯合要是共同就是橫向來去討論但是我們各部會自己做自己的所以到最後說我們再來去問我們再來去討論所以不知道到民國幾年\n所以我們希望我們台灣的空氣品質不關於是民眾的健康每天我們都是用就是空清氣的費來去吸這樣子的空氣所以我們希望說我們的空氣要好別人才會進來我們台灣來去投資還有移民還有居住這邊這安全所以我們交通的污染也是沒有去\n去跨部會 經濟部很多中小企業跟我們的環境部也沒有辦法去連結 所以我們希望跨部會來去連結有一個具體的計畫讓我們知道說我們今年我們已經預算已經在補助了但是呢都沒有去有計畫怎麼去執行現在\n都在去炒說什麼上預算但是有的預算為什麼沒有去規劃來去做呢還有我們是沒有我們的立法院沒有去說去上預算我們在今年我們年初的時候我們去審預算在2020年\n4年的预算我们还没有省大家也是花光了对不对所以现在我们希望各部会真正的回到自己的岗位把自己该做的要来去规划跨部会来去讨论如何才会让我们的人民住的安心住的健康\n所以這個部分希望我們的部長在空屋治理行動計畫要三個月內可不可以提出來讓我們來做參考說你真正的來去做我們不想聽到各部會都說我們再來討論我們回去再檢討我們再來去做我希望說我們要提出具體的\n真正的去改善了空氣的品質讓我們國民享受更健康生活的環境可以嗎我們現在正在做的就是空品的白皮書為了未來五年整個我們空品改善策略第三期管制策略如何做得更好所以我們到時候下個月如果完成之後我們會再給委員請委員指標所以說下個月你就會有你可以提出具體的\n計畫給我們不用三個月你現在就可以提出了我們正在努力在做就是等你提出具體的計畫真正的去執行謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.293 --> 00:28.426\n謝謝主席有請環境部部長環境部目前運行的空瓶監測系統已經有很多年了\n\n00:29.946 --> 00:57.233\n但是台灣的PM2.5濃度還是一樣偏高委員不會喔我們從8年前大概平均20降到12.8去年12.8是嗎對但是我們根據環環境部的統計就是台灣的部分地區年度啦經營PM2.5濃度能超過世界衛生組織在7歐的最新標準\n\n00:57.853 --> 01:12.829\n所以請問部長你覺得說環境部你覺得是這樣子的你覺得是比較減少的話今天就不會排來去質詢所以說我們的定期檢討還有現行的監測點的數據是準確的嗎\n\n01:16.953 --> 01:37.839\n如果準確的話為什麼會有這樣不準確是準確性的嗎不好委員手動跟自動本來就不一樣的東西例如說委員你在洗澡的時候對我說那個數據有準確嗎當然準確啊我們是按照一個法規自動跟手動的定義就不一樣我舉例例如說我們在浴室裡面我們要洗熱水澡一打開有水蒸氣那個水蒸氣呢就PM2.5就會超標因為水分子\n\n01:41.600 --> 02:01.441\n濕度會讓小微粒變大變成PM2.5可是事實上有沒有計畫增加就是各個點比較偵測密度比較高的地方有沒有增加點我們有比較好一點的很嚴格的堅定例如說自動跟手動的這個其實它的費用是很高的那很多這種所謂的IoT\n\n02:02.982 --> 02:16.171\n這種自動型的那個便宜比較便宜可能就幾千塊一萬塊的那個可以再多因為一個是看趨勢一個看實質上的量那我們還我們國家目前還是以手動的監測因為他比有比較好的科學方法的論證會比較好\n\n02:18.304 --> 02:27.709\n但是我們看到的是不是你講的那麼完美所以我們除了就是監測數據問題之外還有過去我們看到的有企業有很多企業違反就是空屋房子的法規但是罰款就是比較偏低就導致就是違反成本比較低所以環境成本也比較沒辦法達成就是大家都遵守\n\n02:48.119 --> 03:01.773\n所以我們環境部對於這樣子的企業是否有強力的監管的措施或者是提高他們的罰款才能就是減少空污\n\n03:03.035 --> 03:19.188\n有嗎包委員這個我上任之後對於這種所謂的偷牌或是不實數據都是重罰的所以我也不知道有沒有注意到我們幾個月前我們曾經罰了一個漁船一個港啊大概一千多萬所以其實委員那個那個其實費用是很高的\n\n03:20.127 --> 03:46.008\n費用很高為什麼還是一樣很多的空屋還有很多的企業就當然是說那個如石化鋼鐵還有就是燃燒發電等還有一些空屋的重要的來源還是一樣是沒辦法去改善才會造成現在的空屋所以我們台中空屋最嚴重了\n\n03:47.649 --> 04:07.786\n委員其實我找到報告裡面有一張是我們所有的污染物的來源其實你說的是固定污染源也有移動污染源還有各種的污染源都在裡面那其實要大家改善一起改善才有辦法做得到所以剛才我們委員就是質詢了快要半個小時但是你要說去參加別人的\n\n04:11.208 --> 04:36.504\n參加日本的所以我看到日本的VOC的管制很特別很特別但是我們要去考察就是看到別人要回來自己要改進或者是有一個措施來去製作要去規定嘛還有就是說一些企業我們就是要去罰款還有是要去溝通還有如何就是減少這樣子的空氣汙染\n\n04:38.285 --> 04:59.496\n所以我們不是說我們去人家餓了自己放來沒辦法我們很積極的在處理規劃這個事情但是其實一個很例如說剛剛講的VOC其實它涉及到民生所有的產品委員你每天在用的噴髮膠等等全部都有要管制其實這個要方法的不然的話其實會造成很大民眾\n\n05:00.837 --> 05:24.276\n我們正在規劃當中都是每次執行都是規劃中執行中討論中我們是正在進行當中都沒有真正的是這個一個明確的措施沒有沒有委員我們其實很多事情都積極的在推動當中但是有些事情涉及到很多的部會這真的要需要一些時間來做溝通要準備好才能夠推出來\n\n05:25.148 --> 05:46.823\n好所以準備好也不知道準備到什麼時候所以我們希望說在我們的未來是不是有計畫加速燃煤電廠的檢排設備還有可不可以是升級還有說可不可以就是淘汰就是高污染的發電廠這樣子的話是不是可以重啟核電呢\n\n05:54.403 --> 06:19.315\n有沒有這樣子的可能報告委員其實燃煤電廠當然舊的燃煤電廠它基本上是污染很嚴重但是如果它把CCS或是各種的空污減排做下去其實它也可以乾淨的但是我們還是希望由煤轉氣而是我們看到現在澳洲各國都是重新就是核電但是我們政府的錯誤政策讓我們的全民買單\n\n06:22.877 --> 06:24.839\n現在下個月又說可能會漲電價所以看起來是非常不可我們的部長是不是承諾跟我們的人民說我們不會去漲價\n\n06:34.599 --> 06:39.302\n這個電價不是我主管的我不能夠承諾這個事情啊對啊你沒有辦法承諾但是你們也要是真的是有跨部會來去來去協助來去討論才有說現在我們這邊的空氣汙染啊所有影響到大家就是頭腦鈍鈍啊問問不好回答也會不會回答這樣子啊是不是所以我們希望說我們是沒辦法漲價但是我們要去把關還有政策要\n\n07:04.040 --> 07:14.567\n準確性不管是室內室外還有我們的汽車交通全部我們要希望大家要來去買電動車但是我們又沒有設備集權所以我們的空氣又在污染\n\n07:22.072 --> 07:38.349\n這個部分我們也是要去跨部會來去討論不是說我們再問到我們的環境部交通部經濟部大家都說我們要去問其他部還是怎麼樣我們各部會都請大家民間要\n\n07:40.872 --> 07:51.098\n聯合要是共同就是橫向來去討論但是我們各部會自己做自己的所以到最後說我們再來去問我們再來去討論所以不知道到民國幾年\n\n07:56.120 --> 08:15.130\n所以我們希望我們台灣的空氣品質不關於是民眾的健康每天我們都是用就是空清氣的費來去吸這樣子的空氣所以我們希望說我們的空氣要好別人才會進來我們台灣來去投資還有移民還有居住這邊這安全所以我們交通的污染也是沒有去\n\n08:24.554 --> 08:46.995\n去跨部會經濟部很多中小企業跟我們的環境部也沒有辦法去連結所以我們希望跨部會來去連結有一個具體的計畫讓我們知道說我們今年我們已經預算已經在補助了但是呢都沒有去有計畫怎麼去執行現在\n\n08:49.777 --> 08:56.641\n都在去炒說什麼上預算但是有的預算為什麼沒有去規劃來去做呢還有我們是沒有我們的立法院沒有去說去上預算我們在今年我們年初的時候我們去審預算在2020年\n\n09:11.990 --> 09:33.221\n4年的预算我们还没有省大家也是花光了对不对所以现在我们希望各部会真正的回到自己的岗位把自己该做的要来去规划跨部会来去讨论如何才会让我们的人民住的安心住的健康\n\n09:34.281 --> 09:38.043\n所以這個部分希望我們的部長在空屋治理行動計畫要三個月內可不可以提出來讓我們來做參考說你真正的來去做我們不想聽到各部會都說我們再來討論我們回去再檢討我們再來去做我希望說我們要提出具體的\n\n10:00.476 --> 10:26.175\n真正的去改善了空氣的品質讓我們國民享受更健康生活的環境可以嗎我們現在正在做的就是空品的白皮書為了未來五年整個我們空品改善策略第三期管制策略如何做得更好所以我們到時候下個月如果完成之後我們會再給委員請委員指標所以說下個月你就會有你可以提出具體的\n\n10:27.717 --> 10:36.289\n計畫給我們不用三個月你現在就可以提出了我們正在努力在做就是等你提出具體的計畫真正的去執行謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.293,"end":28.426,"text":"謝謝主席 有請環境部部長環境部目前運行的空瓶監測系統已經有很多年了"},{"start":29.946,"end":57.233,"text":"但是台灣的PM2.5濃度還是一樣偏高委員不會喔我們從8年前大概平均20降到12.8去年12.8是嗎對但是我們根據環環境部的統計就是台灣的部分地區年度啦經營PM2.5濃度能超過世界衛生組織在7歐的最新標準"},{"start":57.853,"end":72.829,"text":"所以請問部長你覺得說環境部你覺得是這樣子的你覺得是比較減少的話今天就不會排來去質詢所以說我們的定期檢討還有現行的監測點的數據是準確的嗎"},{"start":76.953,"end":97.839,"text":"如果準確的話為什麼會有這樣不準確是準確性的嗎不好委員手動跟自動本來就不一樣的東西例如說委員你在洗澡的時候對我說那個數據有準確嗎當然準確啊我們是按照一個法規自動跟手動的定義就不一樣我舉例例如說我們在浴室裡面我們要洗熱水澡一打開有水蒸氣那個水蒸氣呢就PM2.5就會超標因為水分子"},{"start":101.6,"end":121.441,"text":"濕度會讓小微粒變大變成PM2.5可是事實上有沒有計畫增加就是各個點比較偵測密度比較高的地方有沒有增加點我們有比較好一點的很嚴格的堅定例如說自動跟手動的這個其實它的費用是很高的那很多這種所謂的IoT"},{"start":122.982,"end":136.171,"text":"這種自動型的那個便宜比較便宜可能就幾千塊一萬塊的那個可以再多因為一個是看趨勢一個看實質上的量那我們還我們國家目前還是以手動的監測因為他比有比較好的科學方法的論證會比較好"},{"start":138.304,"end":147.709,"text":"但是我們看到的是不是你講的那麼完美所以我們除了就是監測數據問題之外還有過去我們看到的有企業有很多企業違反就是空屋房子的法規但是罰款就是比較偏低就導致就是違反成本比較低所以環境成本也比較沒辦法達成就是大家都遵守"},{"start":168.119,"end":181.773,"text":"所以我們環境部對於這樣子的企業是否有強力的監管的措施或者是提高他們的罰款才能就是減少空污"},{"start":183.035,"end":199.188,"text":"有嗎包委員這個我上任之後對於這種所謂的偷牌或是不實數據都是重罰的所以我也不知道有沒有注意到我們幾個月前我們曾經罰了一個漁船一個港啊大概一千多萬所以其實委員那個那個其實費用是很高的"},{"start":200.127,"end":226.008,"text":"費用很高為什麼還是一樣很多的空屋還有很多的企業就當然是說那個如石化鋼鐵還有就是燃燒發電等還有一些空屋的重要的來源還是一樣是沒辦法去改善才會造成現在的空屋所以我們台中空屋最嚴重了"},{"start":227.649,"end":247.786,"text":"委員其實我找到報告裡面有一張是我們所有的污染物的來源其實你說的是固定污染源也有移動污染源還有各種的污染源都在裡面那其實要大家改善一起改善才有辦法做得到所以剛才我們委員就是質詢了快要半個小時但是你要說去參加別人的"},{"start":251.208,"end":276.504,"text":"參加日本的所以我看到日本的VOC的管制很特別很特別但是我們要去考察就是看到別人要回來自己要改進或者是有一個措施來去製作要去規定嘛還有就是說一些企業我們就是要去罰款還有是要去溝通還有如何就是減少這樣子的空氣汙染"},{"start":278.285,"end":299.496,"text":"所以我們不是說我們去人家餓了自己放來沒辦法我們很積極的在處理規劃這個事情但是其實一個很例如說剛剛講的VOC其實它涉及到民生所有的產品委員你每天在用的噴髮膠等等全部都有要管制其實這個要方法的不然的話其實會造成很大民眾"},{"start":300.837,"end":324.276,"text":"我們正在規劃當中都是每次執行都是規劃中執行中討論中我們是正在進行當中都沒有真正的是這個一個明確的措施沒有沒有委員我們其實很多事情都積極的在推動當中但是有些事情涉及到很多的部會這真的要需要一些時間來做溝通要準備好才能夠推出來"},{"start":325.148,"end":346.823,"text":"好 所以準備好也不知道準備到什麼時候所以我們希望說在我們的未來是不是有計畫加速燃煤電廠的檢排設備還有可不可以是升級還有說可不可以就是淘汰就是高污染的發電廠這樣子的話是不是可以重啟核電呢"},{"start":354.403,"end":379.315,"text":"有沒有這樣子的可能報告委員其實燃煤電廠當然舊的燃煤電廠它基本上是污染很嚴重但是如果它把CCS或是各種的空污減排做下去其實它也可以乾淨的但是我們還是希望由煤轉氣而是我們看到現在澳洲各國都是重新就是核電但是我們政府的錯誤政策讓我們的全民買單"},{"start":382.877,"end":384.839,"text":"現在下個月又說可能會漲電價所以看起來是非常不可我們的部長是不是承諾跟我們的人民說我們不會去漲價"},{"start":394.599,"end":399.302,"text":"這個電價不是我主管的我不能夠承諾這個事情啊對啊你沒有辦法承諾但是你們也要是真的是有跨部會來去來去協助來去討論才有說現在我們這邊的空氣汙染啊所有影響到大家就是頭腦鈍鈍啊問問不好回答也會不會回答這樣子啊是不是所以我們希望說我們是沒辦法漲價但是我們要去把關還有政策要"},{"start":424.04,"end":434.567,"text":"準確性不管是室內室外還有我們的汽車交通全部我們要希望大家要來去買電動車但是我們又沒有設備集權所以我們的空氣又在污染"},{"start":442.072,"end":458.349,"text":"這個部分我們也是要去跨部會來去討論不是說我們再問到我們的環境部交通部經濟部大家都說我們要去問其他部還是怎麼樣我們各部會都請大家民間要"},{"start":460.872,"end":471.098,"text":"聯合要是共同就是橫向來去討論但是我們各部會自己做自己的所以到最後說我們再來去問我們再來去討論所以不知道到民國幾年"},{"start":476.12,"end":495.13,"text":"所以我們希望我們台灣的空氣品質不關於是民眾的健康每天我們都是用就是空清氣的費來去吸這樣子的空氣所以我們希望說我們的空氣要好別人才會進來我們台灣來去投資還有移民還有居住這邊這安全所以我們交通的污染也是沒有去"},{"start":504.554,"end":526.995,"text":"去跨部會 經濟部很多中小企業跟我們的環境部也沒有辦法去連結 所以我們希望跨部會來去連結有一個具體的計畫讓我們知道說我們今年我們已經預算已經在補助了但是呢都沒有去有計畫怎麼去執行現在"},{"start":529.777,"end":536.641,"text":"都在去炒說什麼上預算但是有的預算為什麼沒有去規劃來去做呢還有我們是沒有我們的立法院沒有去說去上預算我們在今年我們年初的時候我們去審預算在2020年"},{"start":551.99,"end":573.221,"text":"4年的预算我们还没有省大家也是花光了对不对所以现在我们希望各部会真正的回到自己的岗位把自己该做的要来去规划跨部会来去讨论如何才会让我们的人民住的安心住的健康"},{"start":574.281,"end":578.043,"text":"所以這個部分希望我們的部長在空屋治理行動計畫要三個月內可不可以提出來讓我們來做參考說你真正的來去做我們不想聽到各部會都說我們再來討論我們回去再檢討我們再來去做我希望說我們要提出具體的"},{"start":600.476,"end":626.175,"text":"真正的去改善了空氣的品質讓我們國民享受更健康生活的環境可以嗎我們現在正在做的就是空品的白皮書為了未來五年整個我們空品改善策略第三期管制策略如何做得更好所以我們到時候下個月如果完成之後我們會再給委員請委員指標所以說下個月你就會有你可以提出具體的"},{"start":627.717,"end":636.289,"text":"計畫給我們不用三個月你現在就可以提出了我們正在努力在做就是等你提出具體的計畫真正的去執行謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":862,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（11時43分）謝謝主席，有請環境部部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：麥委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：部長好。環境部目前運行的空品監測系統已經有很多年了嘛。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["麥委員玉珍：但是臺灣的PM2.5濃度還是一樣偏高。"],["彭部長啓明：委員，不會喔！我們從8年前大概平均20，降到12.8，去年是12.8。"],["麥委員玉珍：是嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：對，降低了很多。"],["麥委員玉珍：但是根據環境部的統計，就是臺灣的部分地區年均PM2.5濃度仍超過世界衛生組織（WHO）的最新標準。請問部長，你覺得這樣子是比較減少的話，今天就不會排這個質詢，你們的定期檢討，還有現行監測點的數據是準確的嗎？如果準確的話，為什麼會有這樣不準確的情況？是有準確性的嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，手動跟自動本來就是不一樣的東西，例如委員你在洗澡的時候……"],["麥委員玉珍：對，我說那個數據有準確嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：當然準確啊，我們是按照法規，自動跟手動的定義不一樣。我舉例，例如我們在浴室裡面要洗熱水澡，一打開就有水蒸氣，那個水蒸氣會讓PM2.5超標，因為水分子的溼度會讓小微粒變大，變得PM2.5……可是事實上它……"],["麥委員玉珍：這樣有沒有計畫增加點呢？有沒有計畫增加點讓偵測密度提高？"],["彭部長啓明：我們有比較好一點的、很嚴格的監測，例如自動跟手動的，其實它的費用是很高的，很多那種所謂的IoT，這種自動型的比較便宜，可能只有幾千塊、1萬塊的，那個可以再多，因為一個是看趨勢，一個看實質上的量，我們國家目前還是以手動的監測為主，因為它有比較好的科學方法論證，會比較好。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，但是我們看到的不是你講得那麼完美，所以我們除了監測數據的問題之外，還有過去我們看到有很多企業違反空污防制的法規，但是罰款偏低，導致違法成本比較低，環境成本也比較沒辦法達成，就是讓大家都遵守，所以環境部對於這樣子的企業，是否有強力的監管措施，或者是提高他們的罰款，才能減少空污，有嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我上任之後，對於這種所謂的偷牌或是不實數據都是重罰的，所以委員不知道有沒有注意到，我們幾個月前曾經罰了一艘漁船，大概一千多萬。委員，其實那個費用是很高的。"],["麥委員玉珍：費用很高，為什麼還是一樣有很多的空污，還有很多的企業，包含如石化、鋼鐵、燃煤發電等，還有一些空污的重要來源，還是一樣沒辦法改善，才會造成現在的空污，像我們臺中空污最嚴重了，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，其實我早上的報告裡面有一張是我們所有污染物的來源，其實你說的是固定污染源，也有移動污染源。"],["麥委員玉珍：對。"],["彭部長啓明：還有各種的污染源都在裡面，其實要大家一起改善才有辦法做得到。"],["麥委員玉珍：是啊！所以剛才我們委員質詢了快要半個小時，但是你就說去參加別人的，去參加日本的，有要去……"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，我看到日本VOC的管制很特別。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，很特別，但是我們去考察，看了別人的，回來後自己也要改進，或者是要訂定一個措施嘛。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["麥委員玉珍：還有一些企業，你們就是要去罰款和溝通，還有看如何減少空氣污染，所以不是說我們去了，然後誇獎別人，自己回來卻沒有作為，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有、沒有，委員，我們很積極地在處理、規劃這個事情，但是例如剛剛講的VOC，其實它涉及到民生所有的產品，委員你每天在用的，像噴髮膠等等，全部都有，這個要管制其實要有方法，不然的話其實會造成很多民眾……"],["麥委員玉珍：對，你的方法是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：我們正在規劃當中，這要一點點時間。"],["麥委員玉珍：每次質詢都是規劃中、執行中、討論中。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們是正在進行當中。"],["麥委員玉珍：都沒有真正地有一個明確的措施。"],["彭部長啓明：沒有、沒有，委員，我們其實很多事情都積極地在推動當中，但是有些事情涉及到很多的部會，這真的需要一些時間來做溝通，要準備好才能夠推出來。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，說要準備好，也不知道要準備到什麼時候，所以你們未來是不是有計畫加速燃煤電廠減排設備的升級？還有，可不可以淘汰高污染的發電廠？這樣子的話，是不是可以重啟核電呢？有沒有這樣子的可能？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，當然，舊的燃煤電廠基本上污染很嚴重，但是如果它把CCS或是各種的空污減排做下去，其實它也可以乾淨的，但是我們還是希望由煤轉氣、由氣轉煤……"],["麥委員玉珍：我們看到現在歐洲各國都重新啟用核電，但是我們政府的錯誤政策讓全民買單，下個月又說可能會漲電價，所以看起來是非漲不可，部長是不是跟我們的人民承諾不會去漲價？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，電價不是我主管的，我不能夠承諾這個事情啊！"],["麥委員玉珍：對啊，你沒有辦法承諾，但是你們也真的要跨部會去協助、去討論，才不會讓空氣污染影響到大家頭腦鈍鈍，問不好、回答也亂回答。我們沒辦法擋漲價，但是希望要去把關，還有政策要有準確性，不管是室內、室外還有汽車、交通……我們希望大家要買電動車，但是又沒有齊全的設備，因此空氣污染這個部分，也是要跨部會做討論，不是當我們問環境部、交通部、經濟部時，大家就說要去問其他部之類的。各部會請民間要聯合、共同橫向討論，但是各部會卻自己做自己的，到最後又說我們再來問、再來討論，這樣不知道拖到民國幾年。","臺灣的空氣品質關係民眾的健康，每天我們都把肺當成空氣清淨機去吸這樣子的空氣，所以希望我們的空氣要好，別人才會進來臺灣投資、移民，還有安全居住，並且交通的污染也是沒有跨部會，經濟部很多中小企業跟環境部也沒有辦法連結，所以我們希望跨部連結，有一個具體的計畫讓我們知道。我們今年已經有補助預算了，但是都沒有計畫怎麼去執行，現在都在吵刪預算，但是有預算為什麼沒有規劃去做呢？還有，立法院沒有說去刪預算……我們在今年年初的時候審預算，但2024年的預算，我們還沒有審，大家也是花光了，對不對？所以現在希望各部會真正的回到自己的崗位，把自己該做的做好，要規劃跨部會討論，如何才能讓我們的人民住的安心、住的健康，所以這個部分，關於空污治理行動計畫，部長可不可以三個月內提出來，讓我們作為參考？你真正的去做，我們不想聽到各部會都說我們再來討論、我們回去再檢討、我們再來做，我希望要提出具體的、真正的去改善空氣的品質，讓國民享受更健康的生活環境，可以嗎？三個月內。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們現在正在做的就是空品的白皮書，為了未來五年空品改善策略，在第三期管制策略如何做得更好，所以到時候、下個月如果完成之後，我們會再給委員，請委員指教。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，所以下個月你就可以提出具體的計畫給我們，不用三個月？"],["彭部長啓明：一個白皮書，對。"],["麥委員玉珍：你現在就可以提出了，是不是？"],["彭部長啓明：對，對，對，我們正努力在做。"],["麥委員玉珍：OK，就等你提出具體的計畫，真正的去執行。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝麥委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請賴士葆委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-3","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","王育敏","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","麥玉珍","賴士葆","張啓楷","張智倫","楊曜","翁曉玲","劉建國","陳瑩","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","黃秀芳","蘇清泉"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、教育部、經濟部、台灣電力公司、台灣中油公司就「氣象變異致\n國內空品惡化，精進預報與跨部會應變作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142901_00004"}}}