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\"end\": 570.132, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 570.132, \"end\": 570.452, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"釐\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 570.452, \"end\": 570.652, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 570.652, \"end\": 570.672, \"score\": 0.451}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,049 --> 00:00:00,109\n請主委備質詢\n\n2\n00:00:12,850 --> 00:00:30,887\n主委早今天有兩題想跟您請教跟討論第一個是關於我的預算提案就是大型學術會議的無障礙配套第二個是關於AI在學術應用上的角色跟規範\n\n3\n00:00:33,849 --> 00:00:40,537\n第一個部分就是我已經跟你們問了就是我的預算提案那你們有正在準備那你們已經會修正那個國科會的補助國內舉辦國際學術研討會的作業要點的第八點未來的申請機構可以編列無障礙措施經費需求我覺得這個非常好那這點我表示肯定\n\n4\n00:00:54,673 --> 00:01:19,707\n那但是呢我的預算案其實是要講到是說要落實啊那因為我知道對機構來講這還是有點麻煩的事嘛你有經費補助他能夠提出不代表他會做那我覺得一開始這個階段這樣是蠻好的那所以我想請那個國科會是不是可以參考衛福部2024年去年10月修正的身心障礙者融合式會議及活動參考指引那訂一個時間表譬如說\n\n5\n00:01:23,669 --> 00:01:47,356\n你們認為多久內我們國內所有的大型學術會議都能夠有無障礙的設施好嗎好謝謝委員我這個建議是很好所以我們現在正在努力因為學界學界是蠻自由的那我們希望首先先透過這個引導我們邊預算他們可以來申請引導他們做然後慢慢讓大家習慣以後\n\n6\n00:01:48,556 --> 00:02:00,066\n接下來下階段看看能不能變成是一個規定這個可能是需要一年兩年或者是更久可以給我一個時間表然後不同階段做法那能不能夠那個兩個月內給我辦公室一個報告呢好謝謝主委的支持那我想這是對大家來講就是我們國際化的重要指標\n\n7\n00:02:09,915 --> 00:02:29,691\n那第二個就是AI,我知道主委也非常熟悉這個主題那也很關心,那國歌會我想你們應該對這個題目也非常的有興趣,正在發展因為我自己辦公室做了一些研究那2023年的Nature的一篇文章就有指出研究者其實早已開始用ChatGPT譬如說改英文、改句子\n\n8\n00:02:35,535 --> 00:03:03,871\n包含總結文獻去為文獻做總結然後那未來這篇文章講到其實它甚至可以幫你做研究設計以後甚至還可以幫忙就是審查論文所以它的角色其實是越來越重要那我想問主委你認為AI運用於學術研究哪些行為是可以接受的哪些是不行主委可不可以解答一下因為我後面還有很多要問您請教您的\n\n9\n00:03:04,511 --> 00:03:31,032\n有關像CHECKGP這種AI的工具應用在各種各樣的領域是一個趨勢我們當然也希望它能夠變成是一個好的工具但是要怎麼樣去防止它變成是一個規避所謂的創作人的創作然後還有智慧財產權的議題等等我們可能還需要一些配套措施還需要再研議\n\n10\n00:03:32,313 --> 00:03:54,749\n那那個我們傳統的所謂的學術倫理定義的範圍現在都還依然存在將來我們可能的做法就是將來AI創作的部分要留下軌跡讓我們可以辨識這種規定將來可能會慢慢會實施就是留下軌跡可以辨識或者是所謂的自我揭露那這可能會是基本的\n\n11\n00:03:55,469 --> 00:04:16,197\n那我的辦公室的那個做了一些小的research我們發現那個Nature2023年跟Science2024年就指出因為AI的快速發展它的技術其實是可以被運用在偽造學術研究上那甚至有一些跡象就是指出它的可以處理假資料\n\n12\n00:04:16,837 --> 00:04:45,296\n沒有驗證的學術假設他可以幫你跑出怎麼樣資料是適合的那甚至已經有期刊他出現大量的評論文章因為在譬如說Medicalresearch就是這邊那你這個commentary事實上是不用peerreview的不用同儕的他比較容易刊登某些就是南亞的一些機構大學可能會鼓勵他們的員工做這樣的部分那所以這部分就已經有產生了\n\n13\n00:04:46,957 --> 00:05:08,612\n所以AI時代下學術評論投稿跟被撤回的論文暴增那已經有一些研究覺得這個有相關比如說我這邊引用的Nature的一篇文章2023年的文章中法國的一位電腦科學家就說有個期刊出版社叫Hindawi他撤回了\n\n14\n00:05:09,272 --> 00:05:31,723\n一年內就撤回了8000論文因為它旗下有好幾個期刊裡面包含文具會故意用一些字句避免被抄襲軟體發現而且有跡象顯示其中的一些論文沒有揭露使用AI但是這些已經被撤回的論文其實已經有引用過超過三萬五千字就整體\n\n15\n00:05:32,924 --> 00:05:58,195\n那另外就是Science的2024年的文章也指出有一個期刊叫做NeurosurgicalReview那它的編輯說他們暫時停止接受評論性的學術文章就Commentary因為他們發現這裡面大量增加的評論文章的是由Chat、GPD等AI工具撰寫的仔細去看的話可能就是品質低落或者是完全沒有相關性\n\n16\n00:05:59,515 --> 00:06:11,315\n所以我想這些就是重量級的期刊裡面提到的現象所以主委剛剛聽起來您是同意學術研究中的AI使用是要揭露嗎\n\n17\n00:06:12,262 --> 00:06:35,431\n是我認為這樣這也是趨勢但是AI創作不管是影像影片還有文字藝術品等等這些東西要留下軌跡有一個叫浮水印的技術這個還在發展當中您認為學術的圖片可不可以用AI只要自我揭露留下軌跡就可以使用AI的製作嗎\n\n18\n00:06:39,074 --> 00:07:00,255\n人的研究他的成果創造新的知識這是我們要省電學術文章的重點他要能夠讓人家相信這不是用工具自動做出來而是他自己的那這種機制是非常困難還在發展當中我們希望國科會將來也是慢慢要去注意這個事\n\n19\n00:07:01,636 --> 00:07:09,280\n我想您說慢慢我是覺得好像不能慢慢了要更快一點因為需要這個工具還在發展當中這個真的是需要專業來討論了解學術倫理的跟了解AIGPT的那我這邊辦公室就是你們目前的學術倫理裡面還並沒有包含AI這個部分我想主委很知道\n\n20\n00:07:22,185 --> 00:07:39,651\n那根據我們陽明交大的那個周嵌副校長他的網路上的那個公開的研究目前國際上多家學術期刊跟出版社我就不念了他有一些基本的規定第一個深層是不能成為作者\n\n21\n00:07:40,171 --> 00:08:04,437\n第二個要進行揭露AI寫作應該要在因為我想AI寫作國內我們也知道有蠻多會幫忙尤其是英文的寫作在研究方法或聲明等處要進行揭露那當然作者還是應該對原創性正確性完整性負完全的責任當然這只是一個學者國內學者的研究那我們辦公室也去查了您剛講到的圖像\n\n22\n00:08:05,797 --> 00:08:31,913\n非常有趣我們指標性的Nature已經明確指出他們不允許全部或部分使用生成式AI創作的影像、影片或插圖在它的網站上都可以看到理由是因為研究成性出於同意保護智慧財產權、隱私等這些原因當然我們未必完全需要跟Nature一樣但是我想今天其實就是藉這個機會\n\n23\n00:08:33,547 --> 00:08:59,699\n跟主委討論我們是不是應該要參考國際標準那國科會找相關的學者專家開始來評估那關於國內的期刊的標準就是我們的就是研究計畫等等是不是應該要有跟AI的相關的規範哪些是可以的行為那需不需要揭露那哪些是不行的那主委覺得呢可以這樣做嗎\n\n24\n00:09:00,759 --> 00:09:12,468\n好謝謝委員的建議我覺得這個方向我非常肯定那我們誠信辦公室接下來會努力把委員這個建議我們會把它納進來那召集相關的這個學者\n\n25\n00:09:14,042 --> 00:09:30,672\n抱歉我們定定相關的規範感謝主委承諾那是不是也可以在您認為兩個月可以給我們一個初步的報告跟方向嗎可以謝謝主委對無障礙的支持還有對AI方向的進一步的釐清跟規範謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n49\t109\t請主委備質詢\n12850\t30887\t主委早 今天有兩題想跟您請教跟討論第一個是關於我的預算提案就是大型學術會議的無障礙配套第二個是關於AI在學術應用上的角色跟規範\n33849\t40537\t第一個部分就是我已經跟你們問了就是我的預算提案那你們有正在準備那你們已經會修正那個國科會的補助國內舉辦國際學術研討會的作業要點的第八點未來的申請機構可以編列無障礙措施經費需求我覺得這個非常好那這點我表示肯定\n54673\t79707\t那但是呢我的預算案其實是要講到是說要落實啊那因為我知道對機構來講這還是有點麻煩的事嘛你有經費補助他能夠提出不代表他會做那我覺得一開始這個階段這樣是蠻好的那所以我想請那個國科會是不是可以參考衛福部2024年去年10月修正的身心障礙者融合式會議及活動參考指引那訂一個時間表譬如說\n83669\t107356\t你們認為多久內我們國內所有的大型學術會議都能夠有無障礙的設施好嗎好謝謝委員我這個建議是很好所以我們現在正在努力因為學界學界是蠻自由的那我們希望首先先透過這個引導我們邊預算他們可以來申請引導他們做然後慢慢讓大家習慣以後\n108556\t120066\t接下來下階段看看能不能變成是一個規定這個可能是需要一年兩年或者是更久可以給我一個時間表然後不同階段做法那能不能夠那個兩個月內給我辦公室一個報告呢好謝謝主委的支持那我想這是對大家來講就是我們國際化的重要指標\n129915\t149691\t那第二個就是AI,我知道主委也非常熟悉這個主題那也很關心,那國歌會我想你們應該對這個題目也非常的有興趣,正在發展因為我自己辦公室做了一些研究那2023年的Nature的一篇文章就有指出研究者其實早已開始用Chat GPT譬如說改英文、改句子\n155535\t183871\t包含總結文獻去為文獻做總結然後那未來這篇文章講到其實它甚至可以幫你做研究設計以後甚至還可以幫忙就是審查論文所以它的角色其實是越來越重要那我想問主委你認為AI運用於學術研究哪些行為是可以接受的哪些是不行主委可不可以解答一下因為我後面還有很多要問您請教您的\n184511\t211032\t有關像CHECKGP這種AI的工具應用在各種各樣的領域是一個趨勢我們當然也希望它能夠變成是一個好的工具但是要怎麼樣去防止它變成是一個規避所謂的創作人的創作然後還有智慧財產權的議題等等我們可能還需要一些配套措施還需要再研議\n212313\t234749\t那那個我們傳統的所謂的學術倫理定義的範圍現在都還依然存在將來我們可能的做法就是將來AI創作的部分要留下軌跡讓我們可以辨識這種規定將來可能會慢慢會實施就是留下軌跡可以辨識或者是所謂的自我揭露那這可能會是基本的\n235469\t256197\t那我的辦公室的那個做了一些小的research我們發現那個Nature2023年跟Science2024年就指出因為AI的快速發展它的技術其實是可以被運用在偽造學術研究上那甚至有一些跡象就是指出它的可以處理假資料\n256837\t285296\t沒有驗證的學術假設他可以幫你跑出怎麼樣資料是適合的那甚至已經有期刊他出現大量的評論文章因為在譬如說Medical research就是這邊那你這個commentary事實上是不用peer review的不用同儕的他比較容易刊登某些就是南亞的一些機構大學可能會鼓勵他們的員工做這樣的部分那所以這部分就已經有產生了\n286957\t308612\t所以AI時代下學術評論投稿跟被撤回的論文暴增那已經有一些研究覺得這個有相關比如說我這邊引用的Nature的一篇文章2023年的文章中法國的一位電腦科學家就說有個期刊出版社叫Hindawi他撤回了\n309272\t331723\t一年內就撤回了8000論文因為它旗下有好幾個期刊裡面包含文具會故意用一些字句避免被抄襲軟體發現而且有跡象顯示其中的一些論文沒有揭露使用AI但是這些已經被撤回的論文其實已經有引用過超過三萬五千字就整體\n332924\t358195\t那另外就是Science的2024年的文章也指出有一個期刊叫做Neurosurgical Review那它的編輯說他們暫時停止接受評論性的學術文章就Commentary因為他們發現這裡面大量增加的評論文章的是由Chat、GPD等AI工具撰寫的仔細去看的話可能就是品質低落或者是完全沒有相關性\n359515\t371315\t所以我想這些就是重量級的期刊裡面提到的現象所以主委剛剛聽起來您是同意學術研究中的AI使用是要揭露嗎\n372262\t395431\t是 我認為這樣 這也是趨勢 但是AI創作不管是影像 影片 還有文字 藝術品等等這些東西要留下軌跡 有一個叫浮水印的技術 這個還在發展當中您認為學術的圖片可不可以用AI 只要自我揭露留下軌跡就可以使用AI的製作嗎\n399074\t420255\t人的研究他的成果創造新的知識這是我們要省電學術文章的重點他要能夠讓人家相信這不是用工具自動做出來而是他自己的那這種機制是非常困難還在發展當中我們希望國科會將來也是慢慢要去注意這個事\n421636\t429280\t我想您說慢慢我是覺得好像不能慢慢了要更快一點因為需要這個工具還在發展當中這個真的是需要專業來討論了解學術倫理的跟了解AIGPT的那我這邊辦公室就是你們目前的學術倫理裡面還並沒有包含AI這個部分我想主委很知道\n442185\t459651\t那根據我們陽明交大的那個周嵌副校長他的網路上的那個公開的研究目前國際上多家學術期刊跟出版社我就不念了他有一些基本的規定第一個深層是不能成為作者\n460171\t484437\t第二個要進行揭露AI寫作應該要在因為我想AI寫作國內我們也知道有蠻多會幫忙尤其是英文的寫作在研究方法或聲明等處要進行揭露那當然作者還是應該對原創性正確性完整性負完全的責任當然這只是一個學者國內學者的研究那我們辦公室也去查了您剛講到的圖像\n485797\t511913\t非常有趣我們指標性的Nature已經明確指出他們不允許全部或部分使用生成式AI創作的影像、影片或插圖在它的網站上都可以看到理由是因為研究成性出於同意保護智慧財產權、隱私等這些原因當然我們未必完全需要跟Nature一樣但是我想今天其實就是藉這個機會\n513547\t539699\t跟主委討論我們是不是應該要參考國際標準那國科會找相關的學者專家開始來評估那關於國內的期刊的標準就是我們的就是研究計畫等等是不是應該要有跟AI的相關的規範哪些是可以的行為那需不需要揭露那哪些是不行的那主委覺得呢可以這樣做嗎\n540759\t552468\t好 謝謝委員的建議我覺得這個方向我非常肯定那我們誠信辦公室接下來會努力把委員這個建議我們會把它納進來那召集相關的這個學者\n554042\t570672\t抱歉我們定定相關的規範感謝主委承諾那是不是也可以在您認為兩個月可以給我們一個初步的報告跟方向嗎可以謝謝主委對無障礙的支持還有對AI方向的進一步的釐清跟規範謝謝\n","txt":"請主委備質詢\n主委早 今天有兩題想跟您請教跟討論第一個是關於我的預算提案就是大型學術會議的無障礙配套第二個是關於AI在學術應用上的角色跟規範\n第一個部分就是我已經跟你們問了就是我的預算提案那你們有正在準備那你們已經會修正那個國科會的補助國內舉辦國際學術研討會的作業要點的第八點未來的申請機構可以編列無障礙措施經費需求我覺得這個非常好那這點我表示肯定\n那但是呢我的預算案其實是要講到是說要落實啊那因為我知道對機構來講這還是有點麻煩的事嘛你有經費補助他能夠提出不代表他會做那我覺得一開始這個階段這樣是蠻好的那所以我想請那個國科會是不是可以參考衛福部2024年去年10月修正的身心障礙者融合式會議及活動參考指引那訂一個時間表譬如說\n你們認為多久內我們國內所有的大型學術會議都能夠有無障礙的設施好嗎好謝謝委員我這個建議是很好所以我們現在正在努力因為學界學界是蠻自由的那我們希望首先先透過這個引導我們邊預算他們可以來申請引導他們做然後慢慢讓大家習慣以後\n接下來下階段看看能不能變成是一個規定這個可能是需要一年兩年或者是更久可以給我一個時間表然後不同階段做法那能不能夠那個兩個月內給我辦公室一個報告呢好謝謝主委的支持那我想這是對大家來講就是我們國際化的重要指標\n那第二個就是AI,我知道主委也非常熟悉這個主題那也很關心,那國歌會我想你們應該對這個題目也非常的有興趣,正在發展因為我自己辦公室做了一些研究那2023年的Nature的一篇文章就有指出研究者其實早已開始用Chat GPT譬如說改英文、改句子\n包含總結文獻去為文獻做總結然後那未來這篇文章講到其實它甚至可以幫你做研究設計以後甚至還可以幫忙就是審查論文所以它的角色其實是越來越重要那我想問主委你認為AI運用於學術研究哪些行為是可以接受的哪些是不行主委可不可以解答一下因為我後面還有很多要問您請教您的\n有關像CHECKGP這種AI的工具應用在各種各樣的領域是一個趨勢我們當然也希望它能夠變成是一個好的工具但是要怎麼樣去防止它變成是一個規避所謂的創作人的創作然後還有智慧財產權的議題等等我們可能還需要一些配套措施還需要再研議\n那那個我們傳統的所謂的學術倫理定義的範圍現在都還依然存在將來我們可能的做法就是將來AI創作的部分要留下軌跡讓我們可以辨識這種規定將來可能會慢慢會實施就是留下軌跡可以辨識或者是所謂的自我揭露那這可能會是基本的\n那我的辦公室的那個做了一些小的research我們發現那個Nature2023年跟Science2024年就指出因為AI的快速發展它的技術其實是可以被運用在偽造學術研究上那甚至有一些跡象就是指出它的可以處理假資料\n沒有驗證的學術假設他可以幫你跑出怎麼樣資料是適合的那甚至已經有期刊他出現大量的評論文章因為在譬如說Medical research就是這邊那你這個commentary事實上是不用peer review的不用同儕的他比較容易刊登某些就是南亞的一些機構大學可能會鼓勵他們的員工做這樣的部分那所以這部分就已經有產生了\n所以AI時代下學術評論投稿跟被撤回的論文暴增那已經有一些研究覺得這個有相關比如說我這邊引用的Nature的一篇文章2023年的文章中法國的一位電腦科學家就說有個期刊出版社叫Hindawi他撤回了\n一年內就撤回了8000論文因為它旗下有好幾個期刊裡面包含文具會故意用一些字句避免被抄襲軟體發現而且有跡象顯示其中的一些論文沒有揭露使用AI但是這些已經被撤回的論文其實已經有引用過超過三萬五千字就整體\n那另外就是Science的2024年的文章也指出有一個期刊叫做Neurosurgical Review那它的編輯說他們暫時停止接受評論性的學術文章就Commentary因為他們發現這裡面大量增加的評論文章的是由Chat、GPD等AI工具撰寫的仔細去看的話可能就是品質低落或者是完全沒有相關性\n所以我想這些就是重量級的期刊裡面提到的現象所以主委剛剛聽起來您是同意學術研究中的AI使用是要揭露嗎\n是 我認為這樣 這也是趨勢 但是AI創作不管是影像 影片 還有文字 藝術品等等這些東西要留下軌跡 有一個叫浮水印的技術 這個還在發展當中您認為學術的圖片可不可以用AI 只要自我揭露留下軌跡就可以使用AI的製作嗎\n人的研究他的成果創造新的知識這是我們要省電學術文章的重點他要能夠讓人家相信這不是用工具自動做出來而是他自己的那這種機制是非常困難還在發展當中我們希望國科會將來也是慢慢要去注意這個事\n我想您說慢慢我是覺得好像不能慢慢了要更快一點因為需要這個工具還在發展當中這個真的是需要專業來討論了解學術倫理的跟了解AIGPT的那我這邊辦公室就是你們目前的學術倫理裡面還並沒有包含AI這個部分我想主委很知道\n那根據我們陽明交大的那個周嵌副校長他的網路上的那個公開的研究目前國際上多家學術期刊跟出版社我就不念了他有一些基本的規定第一個深層是不能成為作者\n第二個要進行揭露AI寫作應該要在因為我想AI寫作國內我們也知道有蠻多會幫忙尤其是英文的寫作在研究方法或聲明等處要進行揭露那當然作者還是應該對原創性正確性完整性負完全的責任當然這只是一個學者國內學者的研究那我們辦公室也去查了您剛講到的圖像\n非常有趣我們指標性的Nature已經明確指出他們不允許全部或部分使用生成式AI創作的影像、影片或插圖在它的網站上都可以看到理由是因為研究成性出於同意保護智慧財產權、隱私等這些原因當然我們未必完全需要跟Nature一樣但是我想今天其實就是藉這個機會\n跟主委討論我們是不是應該要參考國際標準那國科會找相關的學者專家開始來評估那關於國內的期刊的標準就是我們的就是研究計畫等等是不是應該要有跟AI的相關的規範哪些是可以的行為那需不需要揭露那哪些是不行的那主委覺得呢可以這樣做嗎\n好 謝謝委員的建議我覺得這個方向我非常肯定那我們誠信辦公室接下來會努力把委員這個建議我們會把它納進來那召集相關的這個學者\n抱歉我們定定相關的規範感謝主委承諾那是不是也可以在您認為兩個月可以給我們一個初步的報告跟方向嗎可以謝謝主委對無障礙的支持還有對AI方向的進一步的釐清跟規範謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.049 --> 00:00.109\n請主委備質詢\n\n00:12.850 --> 00:30.887\n主委早今天有兩題想跟您請教跟討論第一個是關於我的預算提案就是大型學術會議的無障礙配套第二個是關於AI在學術應用上的角色跟規範\n\n00:33.849 --> 00:40.537\n第一個部分就是我已經跟你們問了就是我的預算提案那你們有正在準備那你們已經會修正那個國科會的補助國內舉辦國際學術研討會的作業要點的第八點未來的申請機構可以編列無障礙措施經費需求我覺得這個非常好那這點我表示肯定\n\n00:54.673 --> 01:19.707\n那但是呢我的預算案其實是要講到是說要落實啊那因為我知道對機構來講這還是有點麻煩的事嘛你有經費補助他能夠提出不代表他會做那我覺得一開始這個階段這樣是蠻好的那所以我想請那個國科會是不是可以參考衛福部2024年去年10月修正的身心障礙者融合式會議及活動參考指引那訂一個時間表譬如說\n\n01:23.669 --> 01:47.356\n你們認為多久內我們國內所有的大型學術會議都能夠有無障礙的設施好嗎好謝謝委員我這個建議是很好所以我們現在正在努力因為學界學界是蠻自由的那我們希望首先先透過這個引導我們邊預算他們可以來申請引導他們做然後慢慢讓大家習慣以後\n\n01:48.556 --> 02:00.066\n接下來下階段看看能不能變成是一個規定這個可能是需要一年兩年或者是更久可以給我一個時間表然後不同階段做法那能不能夠那個兩個月內給我辦公室一個報告呢好謝謝主委的支持那我想這是對大家來講就是我們國際化的重要指標\n\n02:09.915 --> 02:29.691\n那第二個就是AI,我知道主委也非常熟悉這個主題那也很關心,那國歌會我想你們應該對這個題目也非常的有興趣,正在發展因為我自己辦公室做了一些研究那2023年的Nature的一篇文章就有指出研究者其實早已開始用ChatGPT譬如說改英文、改句子\n\n02:35.535 --> 03:03.871\n包含總結文獻去為文獻做總結然後那未來這篇文章講到其實它甚至可以幫你做研究設計以後甚至還可以幫忙就是審查論文所以它的角色其實是越來越重要那我想問主委你認為AI運用於學術研究哪些行為是可以接受的哪些是不行主委可不可以解答一下因為我後面還有很多要問您請教您的\n\n03:04.511 --> 03:31.032\n有關像CHECKGP這種AI的工具應用在各種各樣的領域是一個趨勢我們當然也希望它能夠變成是一個好的工具但是要怎麼樣去防止它變成是一個規避所謂的創作人的創作然後還有智慧財產權的議題等等我們可能還需要一些配套措施還需要再研議\n\n03:32.313 --> 03:54.749\n那那個我們傳統的所謂的學術倫理定義的範圍現在都還依然存在將來我們可能的做法就是將來AI創作的部分要留下軌跡讓我們可以辨識這種規定將來可能會慢慢會實施就是留下軌跡可以辨識或者是所謂的自我揭露那這可能會是基本的\n\n03:55.469 --> 04:16.197\n那我的辦公室的那個做了一些小的research我們發現那個Nature2023年跟Science2024年就指出因為AI的快速發展它的技術其實是可以被運用在偽造學術研究上那甚至有一些跡象就是指出它的可以處理假資料\n\n04:16.837 --> 04:45.296\n沒有驗證的學術假設他可以幫你跑出怎麼樣資料是適合的那甚至已經有期刊他出現大量的評論文章因為在譬如說Medicalresearch就是這邊那你這個commentary事實上是不用peerreview的不用同儕的他比較容易刊登某些就是南亞的一些機構大學可能會鼓勵他們的員工做這樣的部分那所以這部分就已經有產生了\n\n04:46.957 --> 05:08.612\n所以AI時代下學術評論投稿跟被撤回的論文暴增那已經有一些研究覺得這個有相關比如說我這邊引用的Nature的一篇文章2023年的文章中法國的一位電腦科學家就說有個期刊出版社叫Hindawi他撤回了\n\n05:09.272 --> 05:31.723\n一年內就撤回了8000論文因為它旗下有好幾個期刊裡面包含文具會故意用一些字句避免被抄襲軟體發現而且有跡象顯示其中的一些論文沒有揭露使用AI但是這些已經被撤回的論文其實已經有引用過超過三萬五千字就整體\n\n05:32.924 --> 05:58.195\n那另外就是Science的2024年的文章也指出有一個期刊叫做NeurosurgicalReview那它的編輯說他們暫時停止接受評論性的學術文章就Commentary因為他們發現這裡面大量增加的評論文章的是由Chat、GPD等AI工具撰寫的仔細去看的話可能就是品質低落或者是完全沒有相關性\n\n05:59.515 --> 06:11.315\n所以我想這些就是重量級的期刊裡面提到的現象所以主委剛剛聽起來您是同意學術研究中的AI使用是要揭露嗎\n\n06:12.262 --> 06:35.431\n是我認為這樣這也是趨勢但是AI創作不管是影像影片還有文字藝術品等等這些東西要留下軌跡有一個叫浮水印的技術這個還在發展當中您認為學術的圖片可不可以用AI只要自我揭露留下軌跡就可以使用AI的製作嗎\n\n06:39.074 --> 07:00.255\n人的研究他的成果創造新的知識這是我們要省電學術文章的重點他要能夠讓人家相信這不是用工具自動做出來而是他自己的那這種機制是非常困難還在發展當中我們希望國科會將來也是慢慢要去注意這個事\n\n07:01.636 --> 07:09.280\n我想您說慢慢我是覺得好像不能慢慢了要更快一點因為需要這個工具還在發展當中這個真的是需要專業來討論了解學術倫理的跟了解AIGPT的那我這邊辦公室就是你們目前的學術倫理裡面還並沒有包含AI這個部分我想主委很知道\n\n07:22.185 --> 07:39.651\n那根據我們陽明交大的那個周嵌副校長他的網路上的那個公開的研究目前國際上多家學術期刊跟出版社我就不念了他有一些基本的規定第一個深層是不能成為作者\n\n07:40.171 --> 08:04.437\n第二個要進行揭露AI寫作應該要在因為我想AI寫作國內我們也知道有蠻多會幫忙尤其是英文的寫作在研究方法或聲明等處要進行揭露那當然作者還是應該對原創性正確性完整性負完全的責任當然這只是一個學者國內學者的研究那我們辦公室也去查了您剛講到的圖像\n\n08:05.797 --> 08:31.913\n非常有趣我們指標性的Nature已經明確指出他們不允許全部或部分使用生成式AI創作的影像、影片或插圖在它的網站上都可以看到理由是因為研究成性出於同意保護智慧財產權、隱私等這些原因當然我們未必完全需要跟Nature一樣但是我想今天其實就是藉這個機會\n\n08:33.547 --> 08:59.699\n跟主委討論我們是不是應該要參考國際標準那國科會找相關的學者專家開始來評估那關於國內的期刊的標準就是我們的就是研究計畫等等是不是應該要有跟AI的相關的規範哪些是可以的行為那需不需要揭露那哪些是不行的那主委覺得呢可以這樣做嗎\n\n09:00.759 --> 09:12.468\n好謝謝委員的建議我覺得這個方向我非常肯定那我們誠信辦公室接下來會努力把委員這個建議我們會把它納進來那召集相關的這個學者\n\n09:14.042 --> 09:30.672\n抱歉我們定定相關的規範感謝主委承諾那是不是也可以在您認為兩個月可以給我們一個初步的報告跟方向嗎可以謝謝主委對無障礙的支持還有對AI方向的進一步的釐清跟規範謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.049,"end":0.109,"text":"請主委備質詢"},{"start":12.85,"end":30.887,"text":"主委早 今天有兩題想跟您請教跟討論第一個是關於我的預算提案就是大型學術會議的無障礙配套第二個是關於AI在學術應用上的角色跟規範"},{"start":33.849,"end":40.537,"text":"第一個部分就是我已經跟你們問了就是我的預算提案那你們有正在準備那你們已經會修正那個國科會的補助國內舉辦國際學術研討會的作業要點的第八點未來的申請機構可以編列無障礙措施經費需求我覺得這個非常好那這點我表示肯定"},{"start":54.673,"end":79.707,"text":"那但是呢我的預算案其實是要講到是說要落實啊那因為我知道對機構來講這還是有點麻煩的事嘛你有經費補助他能夠提出不代表他會做那我覺得一開始這個階段這樣是蠻好的那所以我想請那個國科會是不是可以參考衛福部2024年去年10月修正的身心障礙者融合式會議及活動參考指引那訂一個時間表譬如說"},{"start":83.669,"end":107.356,"text":"你們認為多久內我們國內所有的大型學術會議都能夠有無障礙的設施好嗎好謝謝委員我這個建議是很好所以我們現在正在努力因為學界學界是蠻自由的那我們希望首先先透過這個引導我們邊預算他們可以來申請引導他們做然後慢慢讓大家習慣以後"},{"start":108.556,"end":120.066,"text":"接下來下階段看看能不能變成是一個規定這個可能是需要一年兩年或者是更久可以給我一個時間表然後不同階段做法那能不能夠那個兩個月內給我辦公室一個報告呢好謝謝主委的支持那我想這是對大家來講就是我們國際化的重要指標"},{"start":129.915,"end":149.691,"text":"那第二個就是AI,我知道主委也非常熟悉這個主題那也很關心,那國歌會我想你們應該對這個題目也非常的有興趣,正在發展因為我自己辦公室做了一些研究那2023年的Nature的一篇文章就有指出研究者其實早已開始用Chat GPT譬如說改英文、改句子"},{"start":155.535,"end":183.871,"text":"包含總結文獻去為文獻做總結然後那未來這篇文章講到其實它甚至可以幫你做研究設計以後甚至還可以幫忙就是審查論文所以它的角色其實是越來越重要那我想問主委你認為AI運用於學術研究哪些行為是可以接受的哪些是不行主委可不可以解答一下因為我後面還有很多要問您請教您的"},{"start":184.511,"end":211.032,"text":"有關像CHECKGP這種AI的工具應用在各種各樣的領域是一個趨勢我們當然也希望它能夠變成是一個好的工具但是要怎麼樣去防止它變成是一個規避所謂的創作人的創作然後還有智慧財產權的議題等等我們可能還需要一些配套措施還需要再研議"},{"start":212.313,"end":234.749,"text":"那那個我們傳統的所謂的學術倫理定義的範圍現在都還依然存在將來我們可能的做法就是將來AI創作的部分要留下軌跡讓我們可以辨識這種規定將來可能會慢慢會實施就是留下軌跡可以辨識或者是所謂的自我揭露那這可能會是基本的"},{"start":235.469,"end":256.197,"text":"那我的辦公室的那個做了一些小的research我們發現那個Nature2023年跟Science2024年就指出因為AI的快速發展它的技術其實是可以被運用在偽造學術研究上那甚至有一些跡象就是指出它的可以處理假資料"},{"start":256.837,"end":285.296,"text":"沒有驗證的學術假設他可以幫你跑出怎麼樣資料是適合的那甚至已經有期刊他出現大量的評論文章因為在譬如說Medical research就是這邊那你這個commentary事實上是不用peer review的不用同儕的他比較容易刊登某些就是南亞的一些機構大學可能會鼓勵他們的員工做這樣的部分那所以這部分就已經有產生了"},{"start":286.957,"end":308.612,"text":"所以AI時代下學術評論投稿跟被撤回的論文暴增那已經有一些研究覺得這個有相關比如說我這邊引用的Nature的一篇文章2023年的文章中法國的一位電腦科學家就說有個期刊出版社叫Hindawi他撤回了"},{"start":309.272,"end":331.723,"text":"一年內就撤回了8000論文因為它旗下有好幾個期刊裡面包含文具會故意用一些字句避免被抄襲軟體發現而且有跡象顯示其中的一些論文沒有揭露使用AI但是這些已經被撤回的論文其實已經有引用過超過三萬五千字就整體"},{"start":332.924,"end":358.195,"text":"那另外就是Science的2024年的文章也指出有一個期刊叫做Neurosurgical Review那它的編輯說他們暫時停止接受評論性的學術文章就Commentary因為他們發現這裡面大量增加的評論文章的是由Chat、GPD等AI工具撰寫的仔細去看的話可能就是品質低落或者是完全沒有相關性"},{"start":359.515,"end":371.315,"text":"所以我想這些就是重量級的期刊裡面提到的現象所以主委剛剛聽起來您是同意學術研究中的AI使用是要揭露嗎"},{"start":372.262,"end":395.431,"text":"是 我認為這樣 這也是趨勢 但是AI創作不管是影像 影片 還有文字 藝術品等等這些東西要留下軌跡 有一個叫浮水印的技術 這個還在發展當中您認為學術的圖片可不可以用AI 只要自我揭露留下軌跡就可以使用AI的製作嗎"},{"start":399.074,"end":420.255,"text":"人的研究他的成果創造新的知識這是我們要省電學術文章的重點他要能夠讓人家相信這不是用工具自動做出來而是他自己的那這種機制是非常困難還在發展當中我們希望國科會將來也是慢慢要去注意這個事"},{"start":421.636,"end":429.28,"text":"我想您說慢慢我是覺得好像不能慢慢了要更快一點因為需要這個工具還在發展當中這個真的是需要專業來討論了解學術倫理的跟了解AIGPT的那我這邊辦公室就是你們目前的學術倫理裡面還並沒有包含AI這個部分我想主委很知道"},{"start":442.185,"end":459.651,"text":"那根據我們陽明交大的那個周嵌副校長他的網路上的那個公開的研究目前國際上多家學術期刊跟出版社我就不念了他有一些基本的規定第一個深層是不能成為作者"},{"start":460.171,"end":484.437,"text":"第二個要進行揭露AI寫作應該要在因為我想AI寫作國內我們也知道有蠻多會幫忙尤其是英文的寫作在研究方法或聲明等處要進行揭露那當然作者還是應該對原創性正確性完整性負完全的責任當然這只是一個學者國內學者的研究那我們辦公室也去查了您剛講到的圖像"},{"start":485.797,"end":511.913,"text":"非常有趣我們指標性的Nature已經明確指出他們不允許全部或部分使用生成式AI創作的影像、影片或插圖在它的網站上都可以看到理由是因為研究成性出於同意保護智慧財產權、隱私等這些原因當然我們未必完全需要跟Nature一樣但是我想今天其實就是藉這個機會"},{"start":513.547,"end":539.699,"text":"跟主委討論我們是不是應該要參考國際標準那國科會找相關的學者專家開始來評估那關於國內的期刊的標準就是我們的就是研究計畫等等是不是應該要有跟AI的相關的規範哪些是可以的行為那需不需要揭露那哪些是不行的那主委覺得呢可以這樣做嗎"},{"start":540.759,"end":552.468,"text":"好 謝謝委員的建議我覺得這個方向我非常肯定那我們誠信辦公室接下來會努力把委員這個建議我們會把它納進來那召集相關的這個學者"},{"start":554.042,"end":570.672,"text":"抱歉我們定定相關的規範感謝主委承諾那是不是也可以在您認為兩個月可以給我們一個初步的報告跟方向嗎可以謝謝主委對無障礙的支持還有對AI方向的進一步的釐清跟規範謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":618,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（11時47分）謝謝召委，有請主委。"],["主席：請主委備質詢，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：范委員好。"],["范委員雲：主委早。今天有兩題想跟您請教跟討論，第一個是關於我的預算提案，就是大型學術會議的無障礙配套，第二個是關於AI在學術應用上的角色跟規範。第一個部分我已經跟你們問了，就是我的預算提案，你們有正在準備，你們已經修正國科會補助國內舉辦國際學術研討會作業要點的第八點，未來的申請機構可以編列無障礙措施經費需求，我覺得這個非常好，這點我表示肯定，但是我的預算案其實講到的是要落實，因為我知道對機構來講這還是有點麻煩的事，你有經費補助，它能夠提出不代表它會做，我覺得一開始這個階段這樣是滿好的，所以想請國科會是不是可以參考衛福部2024年、去年10月修正的身心障礙者融合式會議及活動參考指引，訂一個時間表，譬如說你們認為多久內我們國內所有的大型學術會議都能夠有無障礙設施，好嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員，這個建議是很好，所以我們現在正在努力，因為學界是滿自由的，我們希望首先先透過引導，我們編預算，他們可以來申請，引導他們做，然後慢慢讓大家習慣以後，接下來下階段看看能不能變成是一個規定。"],["范委員雲：這個可能是需要1年、2年或者是更久，可以給我一個時間表，然後不同階段作法，能不能夠2個月內給我辦公室一個報告呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員。"],["范委員雲：好，謝謝，謝謝主委的支持，我想這對大家來講就是我們國際化的重要指標。","第二個就是AI，我知道主委非常熟悉這個主題，也很關心，我想國科會應該對這個題目也非常有興趣，正在發展，因為我自己辦公室做了一些研究，2023年Nature的一篇文章就有指出，研究者其實早已開始用ChatGPT，譬如說改英文、改句子，包含總結文獻。這篇文章講到它甚至可以幫你做研究設計，以後甚至還可以幫忙審查論文，所以它的角色其實是越來越重要。我想問主委，你認為AI運用於學術研究哪些行為是可以接受的、哪些是不行，主委可不可以簡答一下？因為後面還有很多要問您，請教您的看法。"],["吳主任委員誠文：有關像ChatGPT這種工具、AI的工具應用在各種各樣的領域是一個趨勢，我們當然也希望它能夠變成一個好的工具，但是要怎麼樣去防止它變成一個規避人的創作，還有智慧財產權的議題等等，我們可能還需要一些配套措施，還需要再研議。我們傳統學術倫理定義的範圍，現在都依然存在，將來我們可能的作法是AI創作的部分要留下軌跡，讓我們可以辨識，這種規定將來可能會慢慢實施。"],["范委員雲：很好！就是留下軌跡可以辨識，或者是所謂的自我揭露，這可能會是基本的，我辦公室做了一些小的research，我們發現Nature 2023年跟Science 2024年就指出，因為AI的快速發展，它的技術其實可以被運用在偽造學術研究上，甚至有一些跡象指出它可以處理假資料，沒有驗證的學術假設，它可以幫你跑出怎麼樣資料是適合的，甚至已經有期刊出現大量的評論文章，譬如說Medical research這邊，commentary事實上是不用peer review，不用同儕審查，它比較容易刊登，某些南亞的機構大學可能會鼓勵他們的員工做這樣的部分，所以這部分已經有產生所謂的假評論。在AI時代下，學術評論投稿跟被撤回的論文暴增，已經有一些研究覺得這個有相關。譬如說我這邊引用Nature 2023年的一篇文章，文章中法國的一位電腦科學家就說有個期刊出版社叫Hindawi，它一年內就撤回了8,000篇，因為它旗下有好幾個期刊，裡面包含會故意用一些字句，避免被抄襲軟體發現，而且有跡象顯示其中的一些論文沒有揭露使用AI，但是這些已經被撤回的論文其實已經有引用過超過3萬5,000字，就整體而言。","另外是Science 2024年的文章也指出有個期刊叫做Neurosurgical Review，其編輯說他們暫時停止接受評論性的學術文章，就是commentary，因為他們發現這裡面大量增加的評論文章是由ChatGPT等AI工具撰寫的，仔細去看的話可能品質低落或者是完全沒有相關性，這些是重量級期刊裡面提到的現象。主委剛剛的回答聽起來是同意學術研究中的AI使用要揭露嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，我認為是這樣，這也是趨勢，但是AI創作不管是影像、影片、文字、藝術品等等，這些東西要留下軌跡有一個叫做浮水印的技術，這個還在發展當中。"],["范委員雲：您認為學術的圖片可不可以用AI？只要有自我揭露留下軌跡，就可以使用AI製作嗎？像ChatGPT很會做圖。"],["吳主任委員誠文：人的研究，他的成果、創造新的知識，這是我們要審定學術文章的重點，他要能夠讓人家相信這不是用工具自動做出來，而是他自己的，這種機制非常困難，還在發展當中，我們希望國科會將來也要慢慢去注意這件事。"],["范委員雲：您說慢慢，但我覺得好像不能慢慢了，要更快一點。"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為需要的工具還在發展當中。"],["范委員雲：對，這個真的是需要專業來討論，了解學術倫理跟了解AI，就是ChatGPT的，你們目前的學術倫理案件審議要點裡面並沒有包含AI這個部分，我想主委很知道，根據陽明交大周倩副校長網路上的公開研究，目前國際上多家學術期刊跟出版社，我就不唸了，它有一些基本的規定，第一個，生成式AI不能成為作者。第二個，有關AI寫作的部分，AI寫作國內我們也知道有蠻多會幫忙，尤其是英文的寫作，所以若使用AI寫作，應在研究方法或聲明等處進行揭露。第三個，作者還是應該對原創性、正確性、完整性負完全的責任。當然這只是一個國內學者的研究，我們辦公室也去查了您剛講到的圖像，非常有趣，我們指標性的Nature已經明確指出，他們不允許全部或部分使用生成式AI創作的影像、影片或插圖，在它的網站上都可以看到，理由是因為研究誠信、出於同意、保護智慧財產權、隱私等這些原因。當然我們未必完全需要跟Nature一樣，但是我想今天借這個機會跟主委討論，我們是不是應該要參考國際標準，國科會找相關的學者專家，開始來評估關於國內期刊的標準，就是我們研究計畫等等，是不是應該要有跟AI的相關規範？哪些是可以的行為，需不需要揭露，哪些是不行的，主委覺得呢？可以這樣做嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員的建議，這個方向我非常肯定，我們誠信辦公室接下來會努力，我們會把委員這個建議納進來，召集相關的學者，我們訂定相關的規範。"],["范委員雲：感謝主委承諾，您是不是可以在兩個月內給我們一個初步的報告跟方向？"],["吳主任委員誠文：兩個月可以。"],["范委員雲：可以？好，謝謝主委對無障礙的支持，還有對AI方向進一步的釐清跟規範，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員的質詢，主委請回座，謝謝。","我們接著繼續進行質詢，請陳培瑜委員質詢，因為是第1位外委會的，時間5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":110,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-3","speakers":["葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","柯志恩","林沛祥","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","劉書彬","葉元之","郭昱晴","范雲","陳培瑜","萬美玲","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","賴士葆","林倩綺"],"page_start":49,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142901_00002"}}}