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\"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 538.172, \"end\": 538.812, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 538.812, \"end\": 539.033, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 539.033, \"end\": 539.233, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 539.233, \"end\": 539.393, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 539.393, \"end\": 539.533, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 539.533, \"end\": 539.713, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 539.713, \"end\": 539.933, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 539.933, \"end\": 540.113, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 540.113, \"end\": 540.253, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 540.253, \"end\": 540.373, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"媒\", \"start\": 540.373, \"end\": 540.773, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 540.773, \"end\": 540.913, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"望\", 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\"end\": 577.738, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 577.738, \"end\": 578.962, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 578.962, \"end\": 579.885, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"邱\", \"start\": 579.885, \"end\": 580.045, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"若\", \"start\": 580.045, \"end\": 580.407, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"驊\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 580.407, \"end\": 580.427, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,162 --> 00:00:07,926\n謝謝主席主席有請工程會陳主委好陳主委委員長主委好\n\n2\n00:00:15,939 --> 00:00:31,629\n主委本席看到工程會有主要任務其中有加速公共建設的執行還有提升國家競爭力所以國家的發展關鍵是往往取決於公共工程建設的規劃還有執行那我們快速的回顧到1974年到1979年顧總統\n\n3\n00:00:35,735 --> 00:00:54,652\n金國先生他當時推動了十大建設那同時也奠定了台灣經濟奇蹟的基石那從交通能源到重工業然後全方位的提升產業的競爭力那在1979年的時候成立新竹的科學園區也是台灣半導體\n\n4\n00:00:56,874 --> 00:01:14,489\n產業崛起的關鍵是台灣站上全球科技供應鏈的重要位置那由此可見公共工程它不僅影響當下的經濟發展長遠來看更決定了國家未來的競爭力還有人民的生活品質那主委關於這一點您認同嗎\n\n5\n00:01:16,230 --> 00:01:35,699\n完全認同委員的高見就是公共建設它除了經濟發展的基礎之外也是火車頭因為公共建設來帶動相關的發展繁榮或者是就業等等這是非常重要的我們過去幾年前瞻計畫或者是重大計畫\n\n6\n00:01:37,020 --> 00:01:54,372\n過去幾年是公共建設投入很多包括剛才你所提的金國先生早期的十大建設如果沒有那些十大建設帶動整個基礎的話一步一步奠基起來台灣不會有今天所以公共建設是非常重要的主委您提到過去幾年我們來看頭影片\n\n7\n00:01:55,563 --> 00:02:22,859\n那從投影片這三個表格的數據我們可以看到過去六年來公共工程的流費標比例都維持在70%以上甚至有個別的工程它的流費標高達14次那此外呢那它的流費標金額越高那它的不好意思採購金額越高它的流費標比例也越高主委您能說明為什麼這個流費標的比例過高\n\n8\n00:02:23,999 --> 00:02:51,894\n我想大概有幾個原因第一個就是當然就缺工缺料或者是物價然後如果同時間公共建設很多那當然這個能夠做的工人也好或是營造公司也好他就會去選擇所以就會預算成本就會增加您不好意思我這邊先中斷您的那個\n\n9\n00:02:52,734 --> 00:03:14,949\n好那您也有提到說因為缺工缺料那其中缺料的問題特別嚴重這也是全球經濟變化跟全球經濟它的環境變化有密切的關係那我們看到目前全球運輸成本持續上升那加上美國川普政府他的關稅政策那未來的物價恐上漲20%那主委您有掌握到嗎\n\n10\n00:03:16,455 --> 00:03:42,543\n跟委員報告因為物價的這個小組我並不是召集行政院層級的在召集這個相關的物價好那沒關係那本席要進就是我們最近有幾個公共工程成本大幅提升的案例都顯示他是缺工然後還有缺料然後以及行政流程的拖延對公共建設經費的影響甚至那我們先來看到桃園鐵路地下化\n\n11\n00:03:43,743 --> 00:03:55,412\n2020年9月的時候行政院核定經費是1048億那受到營建市長缺工缺料的因素影響他必須來修正計畫那國發會他審議後經費增加了769.08億那總經費高達1817億那原本他2030年完工那現在確定了會延至2033年他的進度也落後了他原本\n\n12\n00:04:09,222 --> 00:04:38,200\n預定的進度是42%那現在實際的進度它只有32%那我們再看到另外一個案例捷運三陰線延伸到八德2019年11月的時候行政院它核定可行性評估當時的計劃經費是116.41億元到了2024年6月11日的時候國發會核定增加43.59億總經費增加160億那目前已送院核定還在核定中\n\n13\n00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:55,849\n那我們再來看到花東花東快速道路2016年當時的可行性評估他估計興建的費用是819.6億那2025年最新可行性評他的可行性報告他總經費上升了3610\n\n14\n00:04:58,750 --> 00:05:22,363\n市議員暴增了兩千億那有這些案例我們可以發現漫長的行政流程還有工刑拖延造成進度落後那成本也不斷的上升主委那我們要怎麼因應跟委員報告以台灣鐵路地下化而言事實上他是有經過幾次的修正包括原來是高架\n\n15\n00:05:23,123 --> 00:05:38,569\n然後後來改成地下化地下化過程呢有些佔還有調整就是有修正這個修正計畫有一點時間所以呢自然而然供期延長那物價就上漲所以一直飆升\n\n16\n00:05:39,910 --> 00:06:00,801\n那這一部分呢我們希望在中央機關能夠做的情況之下就整個縮短審議的流程尤其是原來就已經有計畫了主委您身為工程會主委很清楚嗎在公共建設在中規過後那還有需要還有經過設計的階段然後再來才能進入正式發包動工\n\n17\n00:06:02,162 --> 00:06:26,462\n那如果這些程序他一直延宕的話一定會影響工期也會造成成本上升那本期要跟您討論的是捷運的三陰線我們可以看到2015年捷運三陰線他2015年6月2號中規核定在2016年7月21日正式開工他的行政流程的歷史是415天那如今的三陰線\n\n18\n00:06:27,583 --> 00:06:56,417\n今年年底會完工那明明營運然而山陰縣延伸至八德他從2024年9月20日已經報請行政院核定本席也多次向行政院卓榮泰院長還有我們的陳士凱部長反映希望行政院能夠來進促核定已經178天了卻沒有任何進展也毫無音訊本席要請問主委您認為這樣的行政效率合理嗎\n\n19\n00:07:00,904 --> 00:07:12,447\n這個三陰縣是不是在國安會還是已經國安會審定了如果三陰縣的話我們工程會會寫審啦,我們沒有審過\n\n20\n00:07:15,523 --> 00:07:43,159\n我們還沒有審到了不過現在我們的確有一些困難這個困難我舉一個例子比方說我們去年對有些建設或地方的已經補助已經核定了困難是需要大家一起共同來去克服的是什麼樣的困難就是比方說已經核定了核定地方那地方有可能就編列預算準備要花但是臨時現在整個現在是卡在行政院\n\n21\n00:07:44,019 --> 00:07:52,634\n就是沒錢啦就是沒錢就是未來的錢到底能夠動之多少已經那麼多的主要像您可能沒有掌握到目前不是因為經費的問題\n\n22\n00:07:55,427 --> 00:08:14,210\n有核定的也會受影響不只這個山陰縣有很多重大建設還沒核定目前的進度是還沒核定好我們會同意來如果送到公司來您是工程會的主委同時也是行政院的政務委員本身希望您也可以以政務委員的身份來向院長\n\n23\n00:08:15,431 --> 00:08:33,622\n來反映加速三陰線的核定進度那巴德我們當地的居民也巴德居民桃園的市民也非常期待捷運同時趕上當地的交通問題那這也是賴清德總統桃竹苗大矽谷計畫的一環那主委您願意\n\n24\n00:08:34,802 --> 00:09:02,154\n來向行政院院長反映嗎我們會主動來瞭解相關審議單位包括交通部包括國安會我們願意能夠全力來協助讓他進度快一點讓他進度快一點OK好謝謝主委主委最後剛剛有很多委員提到金指甲有提到刪除媒體費的部分那本席這邊也要再提是因為我們不希望經費都只是集中在特定的媒體希望主委您能夠瞭解\n\n25\n00:09:03,817 --> 00:09:29,978\n我們那個220萬只辦一件事情就是金子獎的紀錄跟頒獎沒有其他媒體宣傳因為剛剛委員提到的是因為媒體宣傳費的關係就是我們因為編在媒體宣傳隊事實上我們那筆錢220萬只做一件事情就是金子獎去查核嘛會紀錄那他得獎之後這個紀錄這個工程怎麼樣或者是一些職人就是做這個那些表揚\n\n26\n00:09:32,701 --> 00:09:40,427\n坐在這些揭露並沒有做其他OK好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝邱若驊委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4162\t7926\t謝謝主席 主席有請工程會陳主委好 陳主委委員長主委好\n15939\t31629\t主委本席看到工程會有主要任務其中有加速公共建設的執行還有提升國家競爭力所以國家的發展關鍵是往往取決於公共工程建設的規劃還有執行那我們快速的回顧到1974年到1979年顧總統\n35735\t54652\t金國先生他當時推動了十大建設那同時也奠定了台灣經濟奇蹟的基石那從交通能源到重工業然後全方位的提升產業的競爭力那在1979年的時候成立新竹的科學園區也是台灣半導體\n56874\t74489\t產業崛起的關鍵是台灣站上全球科技供應鏈的重要位置那由此可見公共工程它不僅影響當下的經濟發展長遠來看更決定了國家未來的競爭力還有人民的生活品質那主委關於這一點您認同嗎\n76230\t95699\t完全認同委員的高見就是公共建設它除了經濟發展的基礎之外也是火車頭因為公共建設來帶動相關的發展繁榮或者是就業等等這是非常重要的我們過去幾年前瞻計畫或者是重大計畫\n97020\t114372\t過去幾年是公共建設投入很多包括剛才你所提的金國先生早期的十大建設如果沒有那些十大建設帶動整個基礎的話一步一步奠基起來台灣不會有今天所以公共建設是非常重要的主委您提到過去幾年我們來看頭影片\n115563\t142859\t那從投影片這三個表格的數據我們可以看到過去六年來公共工程的流費標比例都維持在70%以上甚至有個別的工程它的流費標高達14次那此外呢 那它的流費標金額越高那它的 不好意思 採購金額越高它的流費標比例也越高主委您能說明為什麼這個流費標的比例過高\n143999\t171894\t我想大概有幾個原因第一個就是當然就缺工缺料或者是物價然後如果同時間公共建設很多那當然這個能夠做的工人也好或是營造公司也好他就會去選擇所以就會預算成本就會增加您不好意思我這邊先中斷您的那個\n172734\t194949\t好那您也有提到說因為缺工缺料那其中缺料的問題特別嚴重這也是全球經濟變化跟全球經濟它的環境變化有密切的關係那我們看到目前全球運輸成本持續上升那加上美國川普政府他的關稅政策那未來的物價恐上漲20%那主委您有掌握到嗎\n196455\t222543\t跟委員報告因為物價的這個小組我並不是召集行政院層級的在召集這個相關的物價好那沒關係那本席要進就是我們最近有幾個公共工程成本大幅提升的案例都顯示他是缺工然後還有缺料然後以及行政流程的拖延對公共建設經費的影響甚至那我們先來看到桃園鐵路地下化\n223743\t235412\t2020年9月的時候行政院核定經費是1048億那受到營建市長缺工缺料的因素影響他必須來修正計畫那國發會他審議後經費增加了769.08億那總經費高達1817億那原本他2030年完工那現在確定了會延至2033年他的進度也落後了他原本\n249222\t278200\t預定的進度是42%那現在實際的進度它只有32%那我們再看到另外一個案例捷運三陰線延伸到八德2019年11月的時候行政院它核定可行性評估當時的計劃經費是116.41億元到了2024年6月11日的時候國發會核定增加43.59億總經費增加160億那目前已送院核定還在核定中\n278880\t295849\t那我們再來看到花東花東快速道路2016年當時的可行性評估他估計興建的費用是819.6億那2025年最新可行性評他的可行性報告他總經費上升了3610\n298750\t322363\t市議員暴增了兩千億那有這些案例我們可以發現漫長的行政流程還有工刑拖延造成進度落後那成本也不斷的上升主委那我們要怎麼因應跟委員報告以台灣鐵路地下化而言事實上他是有經過幾次的修正包括原來是高架\n323123\t338569\t然後後來改成地下化地下化過程呢有些佔還有調整就是有修正這個修正計畫有一點時間所以呢自然而然供期延長那物價就上漲所以一直飆升\n339910\t360801\t那這一部分呢我們希望在中央機關能夠做的情況之下就整個縮短審議的流程尤其是原來就已經有計畫了主委您身為工程會主委很清楚嗎在公共建設在中規過後那還有需要還有經過設計的階段然後再來才能進入正式發包動工\n362162\t386462\t那如果這些程序他一直延宕的話一定會影響工期 也會造成成本上升那本期要跟您討論的是捷運的三陰線我們可以看到2015年捷運三陰線他2015年6月2號中規核定在2016年7月21日正式開工他的行政流程的歷史是415天那如今的三陰線\n387583\t416417\t今年年底會完工那明明營運然而山陰縣延伸至八德他從2024年9月20日已經報請行政院核定本席也多次向行政院卓榮泰院長還有我們的陳士凱部長反映希望行政院能夠來進促核定已經178天了卻沒有任何進展也毫無音訊本席要請問主委您認為這樣的行政效率合理嗎\n420904\t432447\t這個三陰縣是不是在國安會還是已經國安會審定了如果三陰縣的話我們工程會會寫審啦,我們沒有審過\n435523\t463159\t我們還沒有審到了不過現在我們的確有一些困難這個困難我舉一個例子比方說我們去年對有些建設或地方的已經補助已經核定了困難是需要大家一起共同來去克服的是什麼樣的困難就是比方說已經核定了核定地方那地方有可能就編列預算準備要花但是臨時現在整個現在是卡在行政院\n464019\t472634\t就是沒錢啦就是沒錢就是未來的錢到底能夠動之多少已經那麼多的 主要像您可能沒有掌握到目前不是因為經費的問題\n475427\t494210\t有核定的也會受影響 不只這個山陰縣有很多重大建設 還沒核定目前的進度是還沒核定好 我們會同意來 如果送到公司來您是工程會的主委 同時也是行政院的政務委員本身希望您也可以以政務委員的身份來向院長\n495431\t513622\t來反映加速三陰線的核定進度那巴德我們當地的居民也巴德居民桃園的市民也非常期待捷運同時趕上當地的交通問題那這也是賴清德總統桃竹苗大矽谷計畫的一環那主委您願意\n514802\t542154\t來向行政院院長反映嗎我們會主動來瞭解相關審議單位包括交通部包括國安會我們願意能夠全力來協助讓他進度快一點讓他進度快一點OK好謝謝主委主委最後剛剛有很多委員提到金指甲有提到刪除媒體費的部分那本席這邊也要再提是因為我們不希望經費都只是集中在特定的媒體希望主委您能夠瞭解\n543817\t569978\t我們那個220萬只辦一件事情就是金子獎的紀錄跟頒獎沒有其他媒體宣傳因為剛剛委員提到的是因為媒體宣傳費的關係就是我們因為編在媒體宣傳隊事實上我們那筆錢220萬只做一件事情就是金子獎去查核嘛會紀錄那他得獎之後這個紀錄這個工程怎麼樣或者是一些職人就是做這個那些表揚\n572701\t580427\t坐在這些揭露並沒有做其他OK好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝邱若驊委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席有請工程會陳主委好 陳主委委員長主委好\n主委本席看到工程會有主要任務其中有加速公共建設的執行還有提升國家競爭力所以國家的發展關鍵是往往取決於公共工程建設的規劃還有執行那我們快速的回顧到1974年到1979年顧總統\n金國先生他當時推動了十大建設那同時也奠定了台灣經濟奇蹟的基石那從交通能源到重工業然後全方位的提升產業的競爭力那在1979年的時候成立新竹的科學園區也是台灣半導體\n產業崛起的關鍵是台灣站上全球科技供應鏈的重要位置那由此可見公共工程它不僅影響當下的經濟發展長遠來看更決定了國家未來的競爭力還有人民的生活品質那主委關於這一點您認同嗎\n完全認同委員的高見就是公共建設它除了經濟發展的基礎之外也是火車頭因為公共建設來帶動相關的發展繁榮或者是就業等等這是非常重要的我們過去幾年前瞻計畫或者是重大計畫\n過去幾年是公共建設投入很多包括剛才你所提的金國先生早期的十大建設如果沒有那些十大建設帶動整個基礎的話一步一步奠基起來台灣不會有今天所以公共建設是非常重要的主委您提到過去幾年我們來看頭影片\n那從投影片這三個表格的數據我們可以看到過去六年來公共工程的流費標比例都維持在70%以上甚至有個別的工程它的流費標高達14次那此外呢 那它的流費標金額越高那它的 不好意思 採購金額越高它的流費標比例也越高主委您能說明為什麼這個流費標的比例過高\n我想大概有幾個原因第一個就是當然就缺工缺料或者是物價然後如果同時間公共建設很多那當然這個能夠做的工人也好或是營造公司也好他就會去選擇所以就會預算成本就會增加您不好意思我這邊先中斷您的那個\n好那您也有提到說因為缺工缺料那其中缺料的問題特別嚴重這也是全球經濟變化跟全球經濟它的環境變化有密切的關係那我們看到目前全球運輸成本持續上升那加上美國川普政府他的關稅政策那未來的物價恐上漲20%那主委您有掌握到嗎\n跟委員報告因為物價的這個小組我並不是召集行政院層級的在召集這個相關的物價好那沒關係那本席要進就是我們最近有幾個公共工程成本大幅提升的案例都顯示他是缺工然後還有缺料然後以及行政流程的拖延對公共建設經費的影響甚至那我們先來看到桃園鐵路地下化\n2020年9月的時候行政院核定經費是1048億那受到營建市長缺工缺料的因素影響他必須來修正計畫那國發會他審議後經費增加了769.08億那總經費高達1817億那原本他2030年完工那現在確定了會延至2033年他的進度也落後了他原本\n預定的進度是42%那現在實際的進度它只有32%那我們再看到另外一個案例捷運三陰線延伸到八德2019年11月的時候行政院它核定可行性評估當時的計劃經費是116.41億元到了2024年6月11日的時候國發會核定增加43.59億總經費增加160億那目前已送院核定還在核定中\n那我們再來看到花東花東快速道路2016年當時的可行性評估他估計興建的費用是819.6億那2025年最新可行性評他的可行性報告他總經費上升了3610\n市議員暴增了兩千億那有這些案例我們可以發現漫長的行政流程還有工刑拖延造成進度落後那成本也不斷的上升主委那我們要怎麼因應跟委員報告以台灣鐵路地下化而言事實上他是有經過幾次的修正包括原來是高架\n然後後來改成地下化地下化過程呢有些佔還有調整就是有修正這個修正計畫有一點時間所以呢自然而然供期延長那物價就上漲所以一直飆升\n那這一部分呢我們希望在中央機關能夠做的情況之下就整個縮短審議的流程尤其是原來就已經有計畫了主委您身為工程會主委很清楚嗎在公共建設在中規過後那還有需要還有經過設計的階段然後再來才能進入正式發包動工\n那如果這些程序他一直延宕的話一定會影響工期 也會造成成本上升那本期要跟您討論的是捷運的三陰線我們可以看到2015年捷運三陰線他2015年6月2號中規核定在2016年7月21日正式開工他的行政流程的歷史是415天那如今的三陰線\n今年年底會完工那明明營運然而山陰縣延伸至八德他從2024年9月20日已經報請行政院核定本席也多次向行政院卓榮泰院長還有我們的陳士凱部長反映希望行政院能夠來進促核定已經178天了卻沒有任何進展也毫無音訊本席要請問主委您認為這樣的行政效率合理嗎\n這個三陰縣是不是在國安會還是已經國安會審定了如果三陰縣的話我們工程會會寫審啦,我們沒有審過\n我們還沒有審到了不過現在我們的確有一些困難這個困難我舉一個例子比方說我們去年對有些建設或地方的已經補助已經核定了困難是需要大家一起共同來去克服的是什麼樣的困難就是比方說已經核定了核定地方那地方有可能就編列預算準備要花但是臨時現在整個現在是卡在行政院\n就是沒錢啦就是沒錢就是未來的錢到底能夠動之多少已經那麼多的 主要像您可能沒有掌握到目前不是因為經費的問題\n有核定的也會受影響 不只這個山陰縣有很多重大建設 還沒核定目前的進度是還沒核定好 我們會同意來 如果送到公司來您是工程會的主委 同時也是行政院的政務委員本身希望您也可以以政務委員的身份來向院長\n來反映加速三陰線的核定進度那巴德我們當地的居民也巴德居民桃園的市民也非常期待捷運同時趕上當地的交通問題那這也是賴清德總統桃竹苗大矽谷計畫的一環那主委您願意\n來向行政院院長反映嗎我們會主動來瞭解相關審議單位包括交通部包括國安會我們願意能夠全力來協助讓他進度快一點讓他進度快一點OK好謝謝主委主委最後剛剛有很多委員提到金指甲有提到刪除媒體費的部分那本席這邊也要再提是因為我們不希望經費都只是集中在特定的媒體希望主委您能夠瞭解\n我們那個220萬只辦一件事情就是金子獎的紀錄跟頒獎沒有其他媒體宣傳因為剛剛委員提到的是因為媒體宣傳費的關係就是我們因為編在媒體宣傳隊事實上我們那筆錢220萬只做一件事情就是金子獎去查核嘛會紀錄那他得獎之後這個紀錄這個工程怎麼樣或者是一些職人就是做這個那些表揚\n坐在這些揭露並沒有做其他OK好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝邱若驊委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.162 --> 00:07.926\n謝謝主席主席有請工程會陳主委好陳主委委員長主委好\n\n00:15.939 --> 00:31.629\n主委本席看到工程會有主要任務其中有加速公共建設的執行還有提升國家競爭力所以國家的發展關鍵是往往取決於公共工程建設的規劃還有執行那我們快速的回顧到1974年到1979年顧總統\n\n00:35.735 --> 00:54.652\n金國先生他當時推動了十大建設那同時也奠定了台灣經濟奇蹟的基石那從交通能源到重工業然後全方位的提升產業的競爭力那在1979年的時候成立新竹的科學園區也是台灣半導體\n\n00:56.874 --> 01:14.489\n產業崛起的關鍵是台灣站上全球科技供應鏈的重要位置那由此可見公共工程它不僅影響當下的經濟發展長遠來看更決定了國家未來的競爭力還有人民的生活品質那主委關於這一點您認同嗎\n\n01:16.230 --> 01:35.699\n完全認同委員的高見就是公共建設它除了經濟發展的基礎之外也是火車頭因為公共建設來帶動相關的發展繁榮或者是就業等等這是非常重要的我們過去幾年前瞻計畫或者是重大計畫\n\n01:37.020 --> 01:54.372\n過去幾年是公共建設投入很多包括剛才你所提的金國先生早期的十大建設如果沒有那些十大建設帶動整個基礎的話一步一步奠基起來台灣不會有今天所以公共建設是非常重要的主委您提到過去幾年我們來看頭影片\n\n01:55.563 --> 02:22.859\n那從投影片這三個表格的數據我們可以看到過去六年來公共工程的流費標比例都維持在70%以上甚至有個別的工程它的流費標高達14次那此外呢那它的流費標金額越高那它的不好意思採購金額越高它的流費標比例也越高主委您能說明為什麼這個流費標的比例過高\n\n02:23.999 --> 02:51.894\n我想大概有幾個原因第一個就是當然就缺工缺料或者是物價然後如果同時間公共建設很多那當然這個能夠做的工人也好或是營造公司也好他就會去選擇所以就會預算成本就會增加您不好意思我這邊先中斷您的那個\n\n02:52.734 --> 03:14.949\n好那您也有提到說因為缺工缺料那其中缺料的問題特別嚴重這也是全球經濟變化跟全球經濟它的環境變化有密切的關係那我們看到目前全球運輸成本持續上升那加上美國川普政府他的關稅政策那未來的物價恐上漲20%那主委您有掌握到嗎\n\n03:16.455 --> 03:42.543\n跟委員報告因為物價的這個小組我並不是召集行政院層級的在召集這個相關的物價好那沒關係那本席要進就是我們最近有幾個公共工程成本大幅提升的案例都顯示他是缺工然後還有缺料然後以及行政流程的拖延對公共建設經費的影響甚至那我們先來看到桃園鐵路地下化\n\n03:43.743 --> 03:55.412\n2020年9月的時候行政院核定經費是1048億那受到營建市長缺工缺料的因素影響他必須來修正計畫那國發會他審議後經費增加了769.08億那總經費高達1817億那原本他2030年完工那現在確定了會延至2033年他的進度也落後了他原本\n\n04:09.222 --> 04:38.200\n預定的進度是42%那現在實際的進度它只有32%那我們再看到另外一個案例捷運三陰線延伸到八德2019年11月的時候行政院它核定可行性評估當時的計劃經費是116.41億元到了2024年6月11日的時候國發會核定增加43.59億總經費增加160億那目前已送院核定還在核定中\n\n04:38.880 --> 04:55.849\n那我們再來看到花東花東快速道路2016年當時的可行性評估他估計興建的費用是819.6億那2025年最新可行性評他的可行性報告他總經費上升了3610\n\n04:58.750 --> 05:22.363\n市議員暴增了兩千億那有這些案例我們可以發現漫長的行政流程還有工刑拖延造成進度落後那成本也不斷的上升主委那我們要怎麼因應跟委員報告以台灣鐵路地下化而言事實上他是有經過幾次的修正包括原來是高架\n\n05:23.123 --> 05:38.569\n然後後來改成地下化地下化過程呢有些佔還有調整就是有修正這個修正計畫有一點時間所以呢自然而然供期延長那物價就上漲所以一直飆升\n\n05:39.910 --> 06:00.801\n那這一部分呢我們希望在中央機關能夠做的情況之下就整個縮短審議的流程尤其是原來就已經有計畫了主委您身為工程會主委很清楚嗎在公共建設在中規過後那還有需要還有經過設計的階段然後再來才能進入正式發包動工\n\n06:02.162 --> 06:26.462\n那如果這些程序他一直延宕的話一定會影響工期也會造成成本上升那本期要跟您討論的是捷運的三陰線我們可以看到2015年捷運三陰線他2015年6月2號中規核定在2016年7月21日正式開工他的行政流程的歷史是415天那如今的三陰線\n\n06:27.583 --> 06:56.417\n今年年底會完工那明明營運然而山陰縣延伸至八德他從2024年9月20日已經報請行政院核定本席也多次向行政院卓榮泰院長還有我們的陳士凱部長反映希望行政院能夠來進促核定已經178天了卻沒有任何進展也毫無音訊本席要請問主委您認為這樣的行政效率合理嗎\n\n07:00.904 --> 07:12.447\n這個三陰縣是不是在國安會還是已經國安會審定了如果三陰縣的話我們工程會會寫審啦,我們沒有審過\n\n07:15.523 --> 07:43.159\n我們還沒有審到了不過現在我們的確有一些困難這個困難我舉一個例子比方說我們去年對有些建設或地方的已經補助已經核定了困難是需要大家一起共同來去克服的是什麼樣的困難就是比方說已經核定了核定地方那地方有可能就編列預算準備要花但是臨時現在整個現在是卡在行政院\n\n07:44.019 --> 07:52.634\n就是沒錢啦就是沒錢就是未來的錢到底能夠動之多少已經那麼多的主要像您可能沒有掌握到目前不是因為經費的問題\n\n07:55.427 --> 08:14.210\n有核定的也會受影響不只這個山陰縣有很多重大建設還沒核定目前的進度是還沒核定好我們會同意來如果送到公司來您是工程會的主委同時也是行政院的政務委員本身希望您也可以以政務委員的身份來向院長\n\n08:15.431 --> 08:33.622\n來反映加速三陰線的核定進度那巴德我們當地的居民也巴德居民桃園的市民也非常期待捷運同時趕上當地的交通問題那這也是賴清德總統桃竹苗大矽谷計畫的一環那主委您願意\n\n08:34.802 --> 09:02.154\n來向行政院院長反映嗎我們會主動來瞭解相關審議單位包括交通部包括國安會我們願意能夠全力來協助讓他進度快一點讓他進度快一點OK好謝謝主委主委最後剛剛有很多委員提到金指甲有提到刪除媒體費的部分那本席這邊也要再提是因為我們不希望經費都只是集中在特定的媒體希望主委您能夠瞭解\n\n09:03.817 --> 09:29.978\n我們那個220萬只辦一件事情就是金子獎的紀錄跟頒獎沒有其他媒體宣傳因為剛剛委員提到的是因為媒體宣傳費的關係就是我們因為編在媒體宣傳隊事實上我們那筆錢220萬只做一件事情就是金子獎去查核嘛會紀錄那他得獎之後這個紀錄這個工程怎麼樣或者是一些職人就是做這個那些表揚\n\n09:32.701 --> 09:40.427\n坐在這些揭露並沒有做其他OK好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝邱若驊委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.162,"end":7.926,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請工程會陳主委好 陳主委委員長主委好"},{"start":15.939,"end":31.629,"text":"主委本席看到工程會有主要任務其中有加速公共建設的執行還有提升國家競爭力所以國家的發展關鍵是往往取決於公共工程建設的規劃還有執行那我們快速的回顧到1974年到1979年顧總統"},{"start":35.735,"end":54.652,"text":"金國先生他當時推動了十大建設那同時也奠定了台灣經濟奇蹟的基石那從交通能源到重工業然後全方位的提升產業的競爭力那在1979年的時候成立新竹的科學園區也是台灣半導體"},{"start":56.874,"end":74.489,"text":"產業崛起的關鍵是台灣站上全球科技供應鏈的重要位置那由此可見公共工程它不僅影響當下的經濟發展長遠來看更決定了國家未來的競爭力還有人民的生活品質那主委關於這一點您認同嗎"},{"start":76.23,"end":95.699,"text":"完全認同委員的高見就是公共建設它除了經濟發展的基礎之外也是火車頭因為公共建設來帶動相關的發展繁榮或者是就業等等這是非常重要的我們過去幾年前瞻計畫或者是重大計畫"},{"start":97.02,"end":114.372,"text":"過去幾年是公共建設投入很多包括剛才你所提的金國先生早期的十大建設如果沒有那些十大建設帶動整個基礎的話一步一步奠基起來台灣不會有今天所以公共建設是非常重要的主委您提到過去幾年我們來看頭影片"},{"start":115.563,"end":142.859,"text":"那從投影片這三個表格的數據我們可以看到過去六年來公共工程的流費標比例都維持在70%以上甚至有個別的工程它的流費標高達14次那此外呢 那它的流費標金額越高那它的 不好意思 採購金額越高它的流費標比例也越高主委您能說明為什麼這個流費標的比例過高"},{"start":143.999,"end":171.894,"text":"我想大概有幾個原因第一個就是當然就缺工缺料或者是物價然後如果同時間公共建設很多那當然這個能夠做的工人也好或是營造公司也好他就會去選擇所以就會預算成本就會增加您不好意思我這邊先中斷您的那個"},{"start":172.734,"end":194.949,"text":"好那您也有提到說因為缺工缺料那其中缺料的問題特別嚴重這也是全球經濟變化跟全球經濟它的環境變化有密切的關係那我們看到目前全球運輸成本持續上升那加上美國川普政府他的關稅政策那未來的物價恐上漲20%那主委您有掌握到嗎"},{"start":196.455,"end":222.543,"text":"跟委員報告因為物價的這個小組我並不是召集行政院層級的在召集這個相關的物價好那沒關係那本席要進就是我們最近有幾個公共工程成本大幅提升的案例都顯示他是缺工然後還有缺料然後以及行政流程的拖延對公共建設經費的影響甚至那我們先來看到桃園鐵路地下化"},{"start":223.743,"end":235.412,"text":"2020年9月的時候行政院核定經費是1048億那受到營建市長缺工缺料的因素影響他必須來修正計畫那國發會他審議後經費增加了769.08億那總經費高達1817億那原本他2030年完工那現在確定了會延至2033年他的進度也落後了他原本"},{"start":249.222,"end":278.2,"text":"預定的進度是42%那現在實際的進度它只有32%那我們再看到另外一個案例捷運三陰線延伸到八德2019年11月的時候行政院它核定可行性評估當時的計劃經費是116.41億元到了2024年6月11日的時候國發會核定增加43.59億總經費增加160億那目前已送院核定還在核定中"},{"start":278.88,"end":295.849,"text":"那我們再來看到花東花東快速道路2016年當時的可行性評估他估計興建的費用是819.6億那2025年最新可行性評他的可行性報告他總經費上升了3610"},{"start":298.75,"end":322.363,"text":"市議員暴增了兩千億那有這些案例我們可以發現漫長的行政流程還有工刑拖延造成進度落後那成本也不斷的上升主委那我們要怎麼因應跟委員報告以台灣鐵路地下化而言事實上他是有經過幾次的修正包括原來是高架"},{"start":323.123,"end":338.569,"text":"然後後來改成地下化地下化過程呢有些佔還有調整就是有修正這個修正計畫有一點時間所以呢自然而然供期延長那物價就上漲所以一直飆升"},{"start":339.91,"end":360.801,"text":"那這一部分呢我們希望在中央機關能夠做的情況之下就整個縮短審議的流程尤其是原來就已經有計畫了主委您身為工程會主委很清楚嗎在公共建設在中規過後那還有需要還有經過設計的階段然後再來才能進入正式發包動工"},{"start":362.162,"end":386.462,"text":"那如果這些程序他一直延宕的話一定會影響工期 也會造成成本上升那本期要跟您討論的是捷運的三陰線我們可以看到2015年捷運三陰線他2015年6月2號中規核定在2016年7月21日正式開工他的行政流程的歷史是415天那如今的三陰線"},{"start":387.583,"end":416.417,"text":"今年年底會完工那明明營運然而山陰縣延伸至八德他從2024年9月20日已經報請行政院核定本席也多次向行政院卓榮泰院長還有我們的陳士凱部長反映希望行政院能夠來進促核定已經178天了卻沒有任何進展也毫無音訊本席要請問主委您認為這樣的行政效率合理嗎"},{"start":420.904,"end":432.447,"text":"這個三陰縣是不是在國安會還是已經國安會審定了如果三陰縣的話我們工程會會寫審啦,我們沒有審過"},{"start":435.523,"end":463.159,"text":"我們還沒有審到了不過現在我們的確有一些困難這個困難我舉一個例子比方說我們去年對有些建設或地方的已經補助已經核定了困難是需要大家一起共同來去克服的是什麼樣的困難就是比方說已經核定了核定地方那地方有可能就編列預算準備要花但是臨時現在整個現在是卡在行政院"},{"start":464.019,"end":472.634,"text":"就是沒錢啦就是沒錢就是未來的錢到底能夠動之多少已經那麼多的 主要像您可能沒有掌握到目前不是因為經費的問題"},{"start":475.427,"end":494.21,"text":"有核定的也會受影響 不只這個山陰縣有很多重大建設 還沒核定目前的進度是還沒核定好 我們會同意來 如果送到公司來您是工程會的主委 同時也是行政院的政務委員本身希望您也可以以政務委員的身份來向院長"},{"start":495.431,"end":513.622,"text":"來反映加速三陰線的核定進度那巴德我們當地的居民也巴德居民桃園的市民也非常期待捷運同時趕上當地的交通問題那這也是賴清德總統桃竹苗大矽谷計畫的一環那主委您願意"},{"start":514.802,"end":542.154,"text":"來向行政院院長反映嗎我們會主動來瞭解相關審議單位包括交通部包括國安會我們願意能夠全力來協助讓他進度快一點讓他進度快一點OK好謝謝主委主委最後剛剛有很多委員提到金指甲有提到刪除媒體費的部分那本席這邊也要再提是因為我們不希望經費都只是集中在特定的媒體希望主委您能夠瞭解"},{"start":543.817,"end":569.978,"text":"我們那個220萬只辦一件事情就是金子獎的紀錄跟頒獎沒有其他媒體宣傳因為剛剛委員提到的是因為媒體宣傳費的關係就是我們因為編在媒體宣傳隊事實上我們那筆錢220萬只做一件事情就是金子獎去查核嘛會紀錄那他得獎之後這個紀錄這個工程怎麼樣或者是一些職人就是做這個那些表揚"},{"start":572.701,"end":580.427,"text":"坐在這些揭露並沒有做其他OK好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝邱若驊委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":707,"blocks":[["邱委員若華：（11時55分）謝謝主席，有請工程會陳主委。"],["主席：好，陳主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員早。"],["邱委員若華：主委好。主委，本席看到工程會的主要任務，其中有加速公共建設執行還有提升國家競爭力，所以國家的發展關鍵往往取決於公共工程建設的規劃及執行。我們快速的回顧，1974年到1979年，故總統經國先生當時推動了十大建設，同時也奠定了臺灣經濟奇蹟的基石，從交通、能源到重工業，全方位提升產業的競爭力，在1979年成立新竹科學園區，也是臺灣半導體產業崛起的關鍵，使臺灣站上全球科技供應鏈的重要位置。由此可見，公共工程不僅影響當下的經濟發展，長遠來看，更決定了國家未來的競爭力及人民的生活品質。主委，關於這點，您認同嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：完全認同委員的高見，公共建設除了是經濟發展的基礎之外，也是火車頭，因為公共建設能帶動相關的發展、繁榮或者是就業等等，這是非常重要的，像前瞻計畫或者一些重大計畫，在過去幾年公共建設投入很多，包括剛才你所提的經國先生早期的十大建設，如果沒有那些十大建設帶動整個基礎一步一步奠基起來，臺灣不會有今天，所以公共建設是非常重要的。"],["邱委員若華：是，主委，您提到過去幾年，我們來看投影片，從投影片這3個表格的數據我們可以看到，過去6年來公共工程的流廢標比率都維持在70%以上，甚至有個別工程的流廢標高達14次；此外，採購金額越高，其流廢標比率也越高。主委，您能說明為什麼流廢標的比率過高嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：我想大概有幾個原因，第一個當然就是缺工缺料或者是物價，如果同時間公共建設很多，當然能夠做的工人也好，或是營造公司也好，他就會去選擇，所以預算成本就會增加……"],["邱委員若華：主委，不好意思，我這邊先中斷您，您也有提到因為缺工缺料，其中缺料的問題特別嚴重，這也是全球經濟變化跟全球經濟環境變化有密切關係，我們看到目前全球運輸成本持續上升，加上美國川普政府的關稅政策，未來的物價恐上漲20%，主委，您有掌握到嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：跟委員報告，因為物價小組並不是由我召集，已經由行政院層級的在召集相關的物價……"],["邱委員若華：好，沒關係，本席要說最近有幾個公共工程成本大幅提升的案例，都顯示它是缺工及缺料，以及行政流程的拖延對公共建設經費的影響甚巨。我們先來看桃園鐵路地下化，2020年9月的時候，行政院核定經費是1,048億，受到營建市場缺工缺料的因素影響，它必須修正計畫，在國發會審議後，經費增加了769.08億，總經費高達1,817億，原本在2030年完工，現在確定會延至2033年，而進度也落後了，原本預定的進度是42%，現在實際的進度只有32%。我們再看到另外一個案例，捷運三鶯線延伸到八德，2019年11月行政院核定可行性評估，當時的計畫經費是116.41億元，到了2024年6月11日的時候，國發會核定增加43.59億，總經費增加到160億，目前已送院核定，還在核定中。我們再來看到花東快速道路，2016年當時的可行性評估估計興建費用是819.6億，而2025年最新的可行性報告，總經費上升到3,614億元，暴增了2,000億。由這些案例我們可以發現，漫長的行政流程及工期拖延造成進度落後，成本也不斷的上升。主委，我們要怎麼因應？"],["陳主任委員金德：跟委員報告，以桃園鐵路地下化而言，事實上它是有經過幾次的修正，包括原來是高架，後來改成地下化，在地下化的過程中，有些站還有調整，就是有修正，這個修正計畫有花了一點時間，所以自然而然工期延長，又因物價上漲，所以經費就一直飆升。這個部分，我們希望在中央機關能夠做的情況之下，整個來縮短審議的流程，尤其是原來就已經有計畫的。"],["邱委員若華：主委，您身為工程會的主委，很清楚嘛，公共建設在綜規過後，還要經過設計階段，然後才能進入正式發包動工，如果這些程序一直延宕的話，一定會影響工期，也會造成成本上升。本席要跟您討論的是捷運三鶯線，我們可以看到2015年6月2號行政院核定捷運三鶯線綜規報告，在2016年7月21號正式開工，它的行政流程歷時415天，如今三鶯線在今年年底會完工，明年營運。然而三鶯線延伸至八德的部分，在2024年9月20號已經報請行政院核定，本席也多次向行政院卓榮泰院長及陳世凱部長反映，希望行政院能夠儘速核定，已經178天了，卻沒有任何進展，也毫無音訊。本席要請問主委，您認為這樣的行政效率合理嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：三鶯線是在國發會還是國發會已經審定了？如果是三鶯線的話，我們工程委員會協審，剛剛同仁告知我，這個我們還沒有審到，不過現在我們的確有一些困難，我舉一個例子，比方說我們去年對有些建設或地方的補助已經核定了……"],["邱委員若華：困難是需要大家一起共同來克服的，是什麼樣的困難？"],["陳主任委員金德：比方說已經核定地方，地方有可能就編列預算準備要發包，但是臨時整個總體的錢……"],["邱委員若華：現在是卡在行政院喔？"],["陳主任委員金德：就是沒錢啊！"],["邱委員若華：就是沒錢？"],["陳主任委員金德：就是未來的錢到底能夠動支多少，已經那麼多的地方都要……"],["邱委員若華：主委，我想您可能沒有掌握到，目前不是因為經費的問題。"],["陳主任委員金德：有核定的也會受影響喔，不只這個三鶯線，有很多重大建設……"],["邱委員若華：還沒核定！"],["陳主任委員金德：還沒有核定？"],["邱委員若華：目前的進度是還沒核定。"],["陳主任委員金德：好，我們會同意來……如果送到工程會來……"],["邱委員若華：因為您是工程會的主委，同時也是行政院的政務委員，本席希望您也可以以政務委員的身分向院長反映，加速三鶯線延伸至八德的核定進度，我們八德當地的居民及桃園的市民也非常期待捷運通車，同時改善當地的交通問題，這也是賴清德總統桃竹苗大矽谷計畫的一環。主委，您願意來向行政院院長反映嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們會主動來了解相關審議單位，包括交通部，包括國發會，我們願意全力來協助，讓它的進度快一點。"],["邱委員若華：讓它進度快一點？OK，謝謝主委。","主委，剛剛有很多委員提到金質獎，有提到刪除媒體費的部分，本席這邊也要再提，是因為我們不希望經費都只是集中在特定的媒體，希望主委您能夠了解。"],["陳主任委員金德：我們那個220萬只辦一件事情，就是金質獎紀錄跟頒獎，沒有其他媒體宣傳。"],["邱委員若華：OK，因為剛剛有委員提到是因為媒體宣傳費的關係。"],["陳主任委員金德：就是因為編在媒體宣傳費，但事實上我們那筆220萬只做一件事情，就是金質獎查核會紀錄，他得獎之後，這個紀錄、這個工程怎麼樣，或者是一些職人，例如做鋼筋綁鐵工作等等的那些表揚，就是在做這些的揭露，並沒有做其他的。"],["邱委員若華：OK，謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝邱若華委員。","現在請鍾佳濱委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":222,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-3","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","何欣純","魯明哲","陳素月","黃健豪","林俊憲","蔡其昌","廖先翔","徐富癸","許智傑","邱若華","鍾佳濱","游顥","陳俊宇","張啓楷","陳冠廷"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142801_00014"}}}