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519.549, \"end\": 519.613, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 519.613, \"end\": 519.634, \"score\": 0.002}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,918 --> 00:00:12,882\n謝謝主席主席請一下彭部長來請部長楊委員好部長好台電就不用上來齁不過我先講一下就是說假如說我們的火力發電造成的\n\n2\n00:00:33,291 --> 00:00:51,478\n空屋只佔來源的2.3%那我覺得台電必須要有責任為自己的商譽做一定的澄清跟捍衛假如說這個數據是沒有問題的當然不是說2.3%\n\n3\n00:00:58,311 --> 00:01:17,506\n很少因為它是固定污染源所以它影響的區域是比較固定我們當然要盡量的減少可是假如佔總比例的2.3%我認為不應該被放大成這個樣子\n\n4\n00:01:25,846 --> 00:01:50,791\n台電來的人坐在那邊要認真聽真的我真的覺得不用上台因為我只是跟你們講我剛剛聽到這個數據還蠻還蠻訝異的為什麼為什麼你們占了2.3%可以可以被講成好像台灣所有的汙染都是火力發電造成的\n\n5\n00:01:52,830 --> 00:02:03,960\n部長環境部在2月底的時候有舉辦了一個加強空污防治的論壇也邀集了很多國際的學者來討論我們是預計3月底會發布\n\n6\n00:02:14,528 --> 00:02:22,154\n新公平政策白皮書對不對對我們現在正在努力做啦齁阿可能4月多才會對外公平好沒有關係就是那我我\n\n7\n00:02:23,878 --> 00:02:44,945\n我請問一下這個白皮書大概會著重在空污防治的哪些面向因為第一個是剛剛講到的就是認知的問題就是說我們發現民眾對於這種污染來源都一直覺得是外面的可是事實上我們自己汽機車各種的污染也蠻多的所以我們要把這個資訊可以掌握\n\n8\n00:02:45,385 --> 00:03:02,888\n所以我們大概呢第一個是我們希望民眾可以走向健康的方式去走所以我們要提出一些污染改善的這個重點例如說汽機車怎麼做工廠怎麼做還有鄰近的生活污染源怎麼做其實裡面最重要的就是說因為我們未來這個總統也特別規劃了2035年要達到淨零2035要減38加減22030要減28加減2其實這個會減的蠻多的那這個減呢其實也會讓\n\n9\n00:03:14,130 --> 00:03:35,833\n空氣品質也會變好所以我們也預期說淨零跟這個空品會兩個共立那怎麼去達成所以這個也會討論那另外一個呢是我是覺得空氣品質需要全民一起做而且要一些新的科技那我也坦承說環境部現在掌握的工具我們經由國際上的專家學者包含日本的專家他們這個環境省的這個一些專家來\n\n10\n00:03:36,994 --> 00:04:01,464\n其實我們發現我們還是有一些不夠的地方我們希望未來這幾年可以逐步的來加強改善所以我們大概會提出一個白皮書我們的願景往那邊走好那既然是願景我就問一下就是我們在空氣污染防治法裡面本來就有相關空氣污染防治方案定期\n\n11\n00:04:02,384 --> 00:04:09,821\n定期修正檢討的機制那跟你們現在講的白皮書會不會有跌床駕屋的\n\n12\n00:04:11,767 --> 00:04:39,904\n因為我們要走到下一個階段第三期那這個就是增強讓我們第三期經由專家學者還有民眾的參與許願能夠得到一個比較好的共識因為我們也發現說我們環境部提的一些政策民眾根本不知道不懂所以就會造成一些缺格那其實我覺得未來推動空屋是需要民眾一起來支持的所以我們希望讓大家能夠知道所以政策白皮書\n\n13\n00:04:42,322 --> 00:05:02,363\n欸是是願景對然後也希望我們會落實到這個行動的方案然後法律規定的是行動方案對對對我們希望會落地到行動方案當然這裡面呃我們的都是同一個團隊在在做的所以這個這個是匯集大家的意見有這個完成的意見之後才會真的去執行那執行會更有力道好好那欸\n\n14\n00:05:05,049 --> 00:05:23,269\n部長就是在2月底的論壇裡面呢就是大概有部長有盤點了8項空無減量遭遇的難題啦那我可能今天也沒有辦法一一跟部長做探討我問其中幾點齁就是\n\n15\n00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:52,756\n氣機車排放的問題也就是移動污染源的問題這個的佔比火力發電大得多對不對我也發現就是台灣推動電動機車推動那麼多年補助那麼多錢可是並沒有得到很好的效果那既然你們把這八點列為\n\n16\n00:05:56,167 --> 00:06:16,435\n難題部長你有沒有什麼想法就我現在提出來的汽機車排放的問題汽機車排放當然從源頭例如說汽機車把它變成電動化改善空污這是最快的做法不過因為現在的這個補助其實相對的除了我們這個空污抵換方式可以補助之外現在的確回歸到市場機制\n\n17\n00:06:17,295 --> 00:06:45,815\n可是不讓我插一下話就是說我也不覺得長期補助是一件好事因為我印象沒有記錯的話補助應該也超過10年10年了非常多錢那補助那麼多錢可是只要補助減少或者是補助停止就沒有人買電動車這個就事實嘛那有沒有什麼方法可以做改善的\n\n18\n00:06:47,653 --> 00:07:14,311\n這個部分其實是如果是汽機車的話因為電動車的話現在其實相對它的造價已經相對的比較電動機汽車啦比較親民那電動機車有些已經慢慢開始降下來了所以我們希望說從市場面例如說國內幾個電動車的業者能夠加速的來進行不管是機車或是汽車都可以來進行那目前的確是慢慢到一個平衡點相對的價位不會差別太大了\n\n19\n00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:37,427\n汽車看起來是世界的趨勢,而且它可能好像市場的接受度也慢慢提高汽車的部分我還是要在這邊講,假如電池交換的機制沒有辦法很完善再怎麼推再怎麼補助都沒有辦法\n\n20\n00:07:40,155 --> 00:08:01,932\n對不能汽車因為它比較難交換啦機車的部分那機車的部分沒有汽車因為它就是國際的趨勢而且大家比較有信賴感所以可能還好現在是機車的部分因為早期確實是電池的品質然後造成很多人心理障礙像我本身就是要怎麼推動電池的統一交換\n\n21\n00:08:08,997 --> 00:08:35,049\n這個可能要想一下因為目前這兩家他的方式不大一樣而且也沒辦法整合這個就還蠻可惜的因為電動化確實是減少污染最壞的方式那我其他的問題就下一次再問啦好謝謝委員謝謝部長\n\n22\n00:08:39,338 --> 00:08:39,634\n好谢谢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3918\t12882\t謝謝主席主席請一下彭部長來請部長楊委員好部長好台電就不用上來齁不過我先講一下就是說假如說我們的火力發電造成的\n33291\t51478\t空屋只佔來源的2.3%那我覺得台電必須要有責任為自己的商譽做一定的澄清跟捍衛假如說這個數據是沒有問題的當然不是說2.3%\n58311\t77506\t很少因為它是固定污染源所以它影響的區域是比較固定我們當然要盡量的減少可是假如佔總比例的2.3%我認為不應該被放大成這個樣子\n85846\t110791\t台電來的人坐在那邊要認真聽真的我真的覺得不用上台因為我只是跟你們講我剛剛聽到這個數據還蠻還蠻訝異的為什麼為什麼你們占了2.3%可以可以被講成好像台灣所有的汙染都是火力發電造成的\n112830\t123960\t部長 環境部在2月底的時候有舉辦了一個加強空污防治的論壇也邀集了很多國際的學者來討論我們是預計3月底會發布\n134528\t142154\t新公平政策白皮書對不對對我們現在正在努力做啦齁阿可能4月多才會對外公平好沒有關係就是那我我\n143878\t164945\t我請問一下這個白皮書大概會著重在空污防治的哪些面向因為第一個是剛剛講到的就是認知的問題就是說我們發現民眾對於這種污染來源都一直覺得是外面的可是事實上我們自己汽機車各種的污染也蠻多的所以我們要把這個資訊可以掌握\n165385\t182888\t所以我們大概呢第一個是我們希望民眾可以走向健康的方式去走所以我們要提出一些污染改善的這個重點例如說汽機車怎麼做工廠怎麼做還有鄰近的生活污染源怎麼做其實裡面最重要的就是說因為我們未來這個總統也特別規劃了2035年要達到淨零2035要減38加減22030要減28加減2其實這個會減的蠻多的那這個減呢其實也會讓\n194130\t215833\t空氣品質也會變好所以我們也預期說淨零跟這個空品會兩個共立那怎麼去達成所以這個也會討論那另外一個呢是我是覺得空氣品質需要全民一起做而且要一些新的科技那我也坦承說環境部現在掌握的工具我們經由國際上的專家學者包含日本的專家他們這個環境省的這個一些專家來\n216994\t241464\t其實我們發現我們還是有一些不夠的地方我們希望未來這幾年可以逐步的來加強改善所以我們大概會提出一個白皮書我們的願景往那邊走好 那既然是願景我就問一下就是我們在空氣污染防治法裡面本來就有相關空氣污染防治方案定期\n242384\t249821\t定期修正檢討的機制那跟你們現在講的白皮書會不會有跌床駕屋的\n251767\t279904\t因為我們要走到下一個階段第三期那這個就是增強讓我們第三期經由專家學者還有民眾的參與許願能夠得到一個比較好的共識因為我們也發現說我們環境部提的一些政策民眾根本不知道不懂所以就會造成一些缺格那其實我覺得未來推動空屋是需要民眾一起來支持的所以我們希望讓大家能夠知道所以政策白皮書\n282322\t302363\t欸是是願景對然後也希望我們會落實到這個行動的方案然後法律規定的是行動方案對對對我們希望會落地到行動方案當然這裡面呃我們的都是同一個團隊在在做的所以這個這個是匯集大家的意見有這個完成的意見之後才會真的去執行那執行會更有力道好好那欸\n305049\t323269\t部長就是在2月底的論壇裡面呢就是大概有部長有盤點了8項空無減量遭遇的難題啦那我可能今天也沒有辦法一一跟部長做探討我問其中幾點齁就是\n326520\t352756\t氣機車排放的問題也就是移動污染源的問題這個的佔比火力發電大得多對不對我也發現就是台灣推動電動機車推動那麼多年補助那麼多錢可是並沒有得到很好的效果那既然你們把這八點列為\n356167\t376435\t難題部長你有沒有什麼想法就我現在提出來的汽機車排放的問題汽機車排放當然從源頭例如說汽機車把它變成電動化改善空污這是最快的做法不過因為現在的這個補助其實相對的除了我們這個空污抵換方式可以補助之外現在的確回歸到市場機制\n377295\t405815\t可是不讓我插一下話就是說我也不覺得長期補助是一件好事因為我印象沒有記錯的話補助應該也超過10年10年了 非常多錢那補助那麼多錢可是只要補助減少或者是補助停止就沒有人買電動車這個就事實嘛那有沒有什麼方法可以做改善的\n407653\t434311\t這個部分其實是如果是汽機車的話因為電動車的話現在其實相對它的造價已經相對的比較電動機汽車啦比較親民那電動機車有些已經慢慢開始降下來了所以我們希望說從市場面例如說國內幾個電動車的業者能夠加速的來進行不管是機車或是汽車都可以來進行那目前的確是慢慢到一個平衡點相對的價位不會差別太大了\n435000\t457427\t汽車看起來是世界的趨勢,而且它可能好像市場的接受度也慢慢提高汽車的部分我還是要在這邊講,假如電池交換的機制沒有辦法很完善再怎麼推再怎麼補助都沒有辦法\n460155\t481932\t對 不能汽車因為它比較難交換啦 機車的部分那機車的部分沒有 汽車因為它就是國際的趨勢而且大家比較有信賴感所以可能還好現在是機車的部分因為早期確實是電池的品質然後造成很多人心理障礙像我本身就是要怎麼推動電池的統一交換\n488997\t515049\t這個可能要想一下因為目前這兩家他的方式不大一樣而且也沒辦法整合這個就還蠻可惜的因為電動化確實是減少污染最壞的方式那我其他的問題就下一次再問啦好 謝謝委員 謝謝部長\n519338\t519634\t好 谢谢\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席請一下彭部長來請部長楊委員好部長好台電就不用上來齁不過我先講一下就是說假如說我們的火力發電造成的\n空屋只佔來源的2.3%那我覺得台電必須要有責任為自己的商譽做一定的澄清跟捍衛假如說這個數據是沒有問題的當然不是說2.3%\n很少因為它是固定污染源所以它影響的區域是比較固定我們當然要盡量的減少可是假如佔總比例的2.3%我認為不應該被放大成這個樣子\n台電來的人坐在那邊要認真聽真的我真的覺得不用上台因為我只是跟你們講我剛剛聽到這個數據還蠻還蠻訝異的為什麼為什麼你們占了2.3%可以可以被講成好像台灣所有的汙染都是火力發電造成的\n部長 環境部在2月底的時候有舉辦了一個加強空污防治的論壇也邀集了很多國際的學者來討論我們是預計3月底會發布\n新公平政策白皮書對不對對我們現在正在努力做啦齁阿可能4月多才會對外公平好沒有關係就是那我我\n我請問一下這個白皮書大概會著重在空污防治的哪些面向因為第一個是剛剛講到的就是認知的問題就是說我們發現民眾對於這種污染來源都一直覺得是外面的可是事實上我們自己汽機車各種的污染也蠻多的所以我們要把這個資訊可以掌握\n所以我們大概呢第一個是我們希望民眾可以走向健康的方式去走所以我們要提出一些污染改善的這個重點例如說汽機車怎麼做工廠怎麼做還有鄰近的生活污染源怎麼做其實裡面最重要的就是說因為我們未來這個總統也特別規劃了2035年要達到淨零2035要減38加減22030要減28加減2其實這個會減的蠻多的那這個減呢其實也會讓\n空氣品質也會變好所以我們也預期說淨零跟這個空品會兩個共立那怎麼去達成所以這個也會討論那另外一個呢是我是覺得空氣品質需要全民一起做而且要一些新的科技那我也坦承說環境部現在掌握的工具我們經由國際上的專家學者包含日本的專家他們這個環境省的這個一些專家來\n其實我們發現我們還是有一些不夠的地方我們希望未來這幾年可以逐步的來加強改善所以我們大概會提出一個白皮書我們的願景往那邊走好 那既然是願景我就問一下就是我們在空氣污染防治法裡面本來就有相關空氣污染防治方案定期\n定期修正檢討的機制那跟你們現在講的白皮書會不會有跌床駕屋的\n因為我們要走到下一個階段第三期那這個就是增強讓我們第三期經由專家學者還有民眾的參與許願能夠得到一個比較好的共識因為我們也發現說我們環境部提的一些政策民眾根本不知道不懂所以就會造成一些缺格那其實我覺得未來推動空屋是需要民眾一起來支持的所以我們希望讓大家能夠知道所以政策白皮書\n欸是是願景對然後也希望我們會落實到這個行動的方案然後法律規定的是行動方案對對對我們希望會落地到行動方案當然這裡面呃我們的都是同一個團隊在在做的所以這個這個是匯集大家的意見有這個完成的意見之後才會真的去執行那執行會更有力道好好那欸\n部長就是在2月底的論壇裡面呢就是大概有部長有盤點了8項空無減量遭遇的難題啦那我可能今天也沒有辦法一一跟部長做探討我問其中幾點齁就是\n氣機車排放的問題也就是移動污染源的問題這個的佔比火力發電大得多對不對我也發現就是台灣推動電動機車推動那麼多年補助那麼多錢可是並沒有得到很好的效果那既然你們把這八點列為\n難題部長你有沒有什麼想法就我現在提出來的汽機車排放的問題汽機車排放當然從源頭例如說汽機車把它變成電動化改善空污這是最快的做法不過因為現在的這個補助其實相對的除了我們這個空污抵換方式可以補助之外現在的確回歸到市場機制\n可是不讓我插一下話就是說我也不覺得長期補助是一件好事因為我印象沒有記錯的話補助應該也超過10年10年了 非常多錢那補助那麼多錢可是只要補助減少或者是補助停止就沒有人買電動車這個就事實嘛那有沒有什麼方法可以做改善的\n這個部分其實是如果是汽機車的話因為電動車的話現在其實相對它的造價已經相對的比較電動機汽車啦比較親民那電動機車有些已經慢慢開始降下來了所以我們希望說從市場面例如說國內幾個電動車的業者能夠加速的來進行不管是機車或是汽車都可以來進行那目前的確是慢慢到一個平衡點相對的價位不會差別太大了\n汽車看起來是世界的趨勢,而且它可能好像市場的接受度也慢慢提高汽車的部分我還是要在這邊講,假如電池交換的機制沒有辦法很完善再怎麼推再怎麼補助都沒有辦法\n對 不能汽車因為它比較難交換啦 機車的部分那機車的部分沒有 汽車因為它就是國際的趨勢而且大家比較有信賴感所以可能還好現在是機車的部分因為早期確實是電池的品質然後造成很多人心理障礙像我本身就是要怎麼推動電池的統一交換\n這個可能要想一下因為目前這兩家他的方式不大一樣而且也沒辦法整合這個就還蠻可惜的因為電動化確實是減少污染最壞的方式那我其他的問題就下一次再問啦好 謝謝委員 謝謝部長\n好 谢谢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.918 --> 00:12.882\n謝謝主席主席請一下彭部長來請部長楊委員好部長好台電就不用上來齁不過我先講一下就是說假如說我們的火力發電造成的\n\n00:33.291 --> 00:51.478\n空屋只佔來源的2.3%那我覺得台電必須要有責任為自己的商譽做一定的澄清跟捍衛假如說這個數據是沒有問題的當然不是說2.3%\n\n00:58.311 --> 01:17.506\n很少因為它是固定污染源所以它影響的區域是比較固定我們當然要盡量的減少可是假如佔總比例的2.3%我認為不應該被放大成這個樣子\n\n01:25.846 --> 01:50.791\n台電來的人坐在那邊要認真聽真的我真的覺得不用上台因為我只是跟你們講我剛剛聽到這個數據還蠻還蠻訝異的為什麼為什麼你們占了2.3%可以可以被講成好像台灣所有的汙染都是火力發電造成的\n\n01:52.830 --> 02:03.960\n部長環境部在2月底的時候有舉辦了一個加強空污防治的論壇也邀集了很多國際的學者來討論我們是預計3月底會發布\n\n02:14.528 --> 02:22.154\n新公平政策白皮書對不對對我們現在正在努力做啦齁阿可能4月多才會對外公平好沒有關係就是那我我\n\n02:23.878 --> 02:44.945\n我請問一下這個白皮書大概會著重在空污防治的哪些面向因為第一個是剛剛講到的就是認知的問題就是說我們發現民眾對於這種污染來源都一直覺得是外面的可是事實上我們自己汽機車各種的污染也蠻多的所以我們要把這個資訊可以掌握\n\n02:45.385 --> 03:02.888\n所以我們大概呢第一個是我們希望民眾可以走向健康的方式去走所以我們要提出一些污染改善的這個重點例如說汽機車怎麼做工廠怎麼做還有鄰近的生活污染源怎麼做其實裡面最重要的就是說因為我們未來這個總統也特別規劃了2035年要達到淨零2035要減38加減22030要減28加減2其實這個會減的蠻多的那這個減呢其實也會讓\n\n03:14.130 --> 03:35.833\n空氣品質也會變好所以我們也預期說淨零跟這個空品會兩個共立那怎麼去達成所以這個也會討論那另外一個呢是我是覺得空氣品質需要全民一起做而且要一些新的科技那我也坦承說環境部現在掌握的工具我們經由國際上的專家學者包含日本的專家他們這個環境省的這個一些專家來\n\n03:36.994 --> 04:01.464\n其實我們發現我們還是有一些不夠的地方我們希望未來這幾年可以逐步的來加強改善所以我們大概會提出一個白皮書我們的願景往那邊走好那既然是願景我就問一下就是我們在空氣污染防治法裡面本來就有相關空氣污染防治方案定期\n\n04:02.384 --> 04:09.821\n定期修正檢討的機制那跟你們現在講的白皮書會不會有跌床駕屋的\n\n04:11.767 --> 04:39.904\n因為我們要走到下一個階段第三期那這個就是增強讓我們第三期經由專家學者還有民眾的參與許願能夠得到一個比較好的共識因為我們也發現說我們環境部提的一些政策民眾根本不知道不懂所以就會造成一些缺格那其實我覺得未來推動空屋是需要民眾一起來支持的所以我們希望讓大家能夠知道所以政策白皮書\n\n04:42.322 --> 05:02.363\n欸是是願景對然後也希望我們會落實到這個行動的方案然後法律規定的是行動方案對對對我們希望會落地到行動方案當然這裡面呃我們的都是同一個團隊在在做的所以這個這個是匯集大家的意見有這個完成的意見之後才會真的去執行那執行會更有力道好好那欸\n\n05:05.049 --> 05:23.269\n部長就是在2月底的論壇裡面呢就是大概有部長有盤點了8項空無減量遭遇的難題啦那我可能今天也沒有辦法一一跟部長做探討我問其中幾點齁就是\n\n05:26.520 --> 05:52.756\n氣機車排放的問題也就是移動污染源的問題這個的佔比火力發電大得多對不對我也發現就是台灣推動電動機車推動那麼多年補助那麼多錢可是並沒有得到很好的效果那既然你們把這八點列為\n\n05:56.167 --> 06:16.435\n難題部長你有沒有什麼想法就我現在提出來的汽機車排放的問題汽機車排放當然從源頭例如說汽機車把它變成電動化改善空污這是最快的做法不過因為現在的這個補助其實相對的除了我們這個空污抵換方式可以補助之外現在的確回歸到市場機制\n\n06:17.295 --> 06:45.815\n可是不讓我插一下話就是說我也不覺得長期補助是一件好事因為我印象沒有記錯的話補助應該也超過10年10年了非常多錢那補助那麼多錢可是只要補助減少或者是補助停止就沒有人買電動車這個就事實嘛那有沒有什麼方法可以做改善的\n\n06:47.653 --> 07:14.311\n這個部分其實是如果是汽機車的話因為電動車的話現在其實相對它的造價已經相對的比較電動機汽車啦比較親民那電動機車有些已經慢慢開始降下來了所以我們希望說從市場面例如說國內幾個電動車的業者能夠加速的來進行不管是機車或是汽車都可以來進行那目前的確是慢慢到一個平衡點相對的價位不會差別太大了\n\n07:15.000 --> 07:37.427\n汽車看起來是世界的趨勢,而且它可能好像市場的接受度也慢慢提高汽車的部分我還是要在這邊講,假如電池交換的機制沒有辦法很完善再怎麼推再怎麼補助都沒有辦法\n\n07:40.155 --> 08:01.932\n對不能汽車因為它比較難交換啦機車的部分那機車的部分沒有汽車因為它就是國際的趨勢而且大家比較有信賴感所以可能還好現在是機車的部分因為早期確實是電池的品質然後造成很多人心理障礙像我本身就是要怎麼推動電池的統一交換\n\n08:08.997 --> 08:35.049\n這個可能要想一下因為目前這兩家他的方式不大一樣而且也沒辦法整合這個就還蠻可惜的因為電動化確實是減少污染最壞的方式那我其他的問題就下一次再問啦好謝謝委員謝謝部長\n\n08:39.338 --> 08:39.634\n好谢谢\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.918,"end":12.882,"text":"謝謝主席主席請一下彭部長來請部長楊委員好部長好台電就不用上來齁不過我先講一下就是說假如說我們的火力發電造成的"},{"start":33.291,"end":51.478,"text":"空屋只佔來源的2.3%那我覺得台電必須要有責任為自己的商譽做一定的澄清跟捍衛假如說這個數據是沒有問題的當然不是說2.3%"},{"start":58.311,"end":77.506,"text":"很少因為它是固定污染源所以它影響的區域是比較固定我們當然要盡量的減少可是假如佔總比例的2.3%我認為不應該被放大成這個樣子"},{"start":85.846,"end":110.791,"text":"台電來的人坐在那邊要認真聽真的我真的覺得不用上台因為我只是跟你們講我剛剛聽到這個數據還蠻還蠻訝異的為什麼為什麼你們占了2.3%可以可以被講成好像台灣所有的汙染都是火力發電造成的"},{"start":112.83,"end":123.96,"text":"部長 環境部在2月底的時候有舉辦了一個加強空污防治的論壇也邀集了很多國際的學者來討論我們是預計3月底會發布"},{"start":134.528,"end":142.154,"text":"新公平政策白皮書對不對對我們現在正在努力做啦齁阿可能4月多才會對外公平好沒有關係就是那我我"},{"start":143.878,"end":164.945,"text":"我請問一下這個白皮書大概會著重在空污防治的哪些面向因為第一個是剛剛講到的就是認知的問題就是說我們發現民眾對於這種污染來源都一直覺得是外面的可是事實上我們自己汽機車各種的污染也蠻多的所以我們要把這個資訊可以掌握"},{"start":165.385,"end":182.888,"text":"所以我們大概呢第一個是我們希望民眾可以走向健康的方式去走所以我們要提出一些污染改善的這個重點例如說汽機車怎麼做工廠怎麼做還有鄰近的生活污染源怎麼做其實裡面最重要的就是說因為我們未來這個總統也特別規劃了2035年要達到淨零2035要減38加減22030要減28加減2其實這個會減的蠻多的那這個減呢其實也會讓"},{"start":194.13,"end":215.833,"text":"空氣品質也會變好所以我們也預期說淨零跟這個空品會兩個共立那怎麼去達成所以這個也會討論那另外一個呢是我是覺得空氣品質需要全民一起做而且要一些新的科技那我也坦承說環境部現在掌握的工具我們經由國際上的專家學者包含日本的專家他們這個環境省的這個一些專家來"},{"start":216.994,"end":241.464,"text":"其實我們發現我們還是有一些不夠的地方我們希望未來這幾年可以逐步的來加強改善所以我們大概會提出一個白皮書我們的願景往那邊走好 那既然是願景我就問一下就是我們在空氣污染防治法裡面本來就有相關空氣污染防治方案定期"},{"start":242.384,"end":249.821,"text":"定期修正檢討的機制那跟你們現在講的白皮書會不會有跌床駕屋的"},{"start":251.767,"end":279.904,"text":"因為我們要走到下一個階段第三期那這個就是增強讓我們第三期經由專家學者還有民眾的參與許願能夠得到一個比較好的共識因為我們也發現說我們環境部提的一些政策民眾根本不知道不懂所以就會造成一些缺格那其實我覺得未來推動空屋是需要民眾一起來支持的所以我們希望讓大家能夠知道所以政策白皮書"},{"start":282.322,"end":302.363,"text":"欸是是願景對然後也希望我們會落實到這個行動的方案然後法律規定的是行動方案對對對我們希望會落地到行動方案當然這裡面呃我們的都是同一個團隊在在做的所以這個這個是匯集大家的意見有這個完成的意見之後才會真的去執行那執行會更有力道好好那欸"},{"start":305.049,"end":323.269,"text":"部長就是在2月底的論壇裡面呢就是大概有部長有盤點了8項空無減量遭遇的難題啦那我可能今天也沒有辦法一一跟部長做探討我問其中幾點齁就是"},{"start":326.52,"end":352.756,"text":"氣機車排放的問題也就是移動污染源的問題這個的佔比火力發電大得多對不對我也發現就是台灣推動電動機車推動那麼多年補助那麼多錢可是並沒有得到很好的效果那既然你們把這八點列為"},{"start":356.167,"end":376.435,"text":"難題部長你有沒有什麼想法就我現在提出來的汽機車排放的問題汽機車排放當然從源頭例如說汽機車把它變成電動化改善空污這是最快的做法不過因為現在的這個補助其實相對的除了我們這個空污抵換方式可以補助之外現在的確回歸到市場機制"},{"start":377.295,"end":405.815,"text":"可是不讓我插一下話就是說我也不覺得長期補助是一件好事因為我印象沒有記錯的話補助應該也超過10年10年了 非常多錢那補助那麼多錢可是只要補助減少或者是補助停止就沒有人買電動車這個就事實嘛那有沒有什麼方法可以做改善的"},{"start":407.653,"end":434.311,"text":"這個部分其實是如果是汽機車的話因為電動車的話現在其實相對它的造價已經相對的比較電動機汽車啦比較親民那電動機車有些已經慢慢開始降下來了所以我們希望說從市場面例如說國內幾個電動車的業者能夠加速的來進行不管是機車或是汽車都可以來進行那目前的確是慢慢到一個平衡點相對的價位不會差別太大了"},{"start":435,"end":457.427,"text":"汽車看起來是世界的趨勢,而且它可能好像市場的接受度也慢慢提高汽車的部分我還是要在這邊講,假如電池交換的機制沒有辦法很完善再怎麼推再怎麼補助都沒有辦法"},{"start":460.155,"end":481.932,"text":"對 不能汽車因為它比較難交換啦 機車的部分那機車的部分沒有 汽車因為它就是國際的趨勢而且大家比較有信賴感所以可能還好現在是機車的部分因為早期確實是電池的品質然後造成很多人心理障礙像我本身就是要怎麼推動電池的統一交換"},{"start":488.997,"end":515.049,"text":"這個可能要想一下因為目前這兩家他的方式不大一樣而且也沒辦法整合這個就還蠻可惜的因為電動化確實是減少污染最壞的方式那我其他的問題就下一次再問啦好 謝謝委員 謝謝部長"},{"start":519.338,"end":519.634,"text":"好 谢谢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1140,"blocks":[["楊委員曜：（12時35分）謝謝主席。主席，請一下彭部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：楊委員好。"],["楊委員曜：部長好。台電人員就不用上來，不過我先講一下，假如我們的火力發電造成的空污只占來源的2.3%，那我覺得台電必須要有責任為自己的商譽做一定的澄清跟捍衛，假如這個數據是沒有問題的，當然不是說2.3%很少，而是說，因為它是固定污染源，所以它影響的區域是比較固定的，我們當然要儘量減少，可是假如占總比例的2.3%，我認為不應該被放大成這個樣子。台電來的人坐在那邊，要認真聽，不用上台，因為我只是跟你們講，我剛剛聽到這個數據還滿訝異的，為什麼你們占了2.3%，可以被講成好像臺灣所有的污染都是火力發電造成的？","部長，環境部在2月底的時候有舉辦了一個加強空污防制的論壇，也邀集了很多國際的學者來討論，你們是預計3月底會發布新空品政策白皮書，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。我們現在正在努力做，可能4月多才會對外公布。"],["楊委員曜：沒有關係。那我我請問一下，這個白皮書大概會著重在在空污防制的哪些面向？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，第一個是剛剛講到的認知問題，我們發現民眾對於這種污染來源都一直覺得是外面的，可是事實上我們自己汽機車各種的污染也滿多的，所以我們要把這個資訊可以掌握，因此第一個是我們希望民眾可以朝向健康的方式去走，所以我們要提出的一些污染改善的重點，例如汽機車怎麼做，工廠怎麼做，還有鄰近的生活污染源怎麼做。其實裡面最重要的就是，因為總統也特別規劃了未來2035年要達到淨零，2035要減38%加減2%，2030要減28%加減2%，其實這個會減得滿多的，這個減其實也會讓空氣品質變好，因為淨零跟空品會兩個共利，那怎麼去達成，所以這個也會討論。另外一個，我是覺得空氣品質需要全民一起做，而且要有一些新的科技，我也坦承環境部現在掌握的工具，我們經由國際上的專家學者，包含日本環境省的一些專家來，我們發現我們還是有一些不夠的地方，我們希望未來這幾年可以逐步地來加強改善，所以我們大概會提出一個白皮書，我們的願景往那邊走。"],["楊委員曜：好，既然是願景，那我就問一下，就是我們在空氣污染防制法裡面，本來就有相關空氣污染防制方案定期修正檢討的一個機制，那跟你們現在講的白皮書會不會有疊床架屋的問題？"],["彭部長啓明：不會。因為我們要走到下一個階段，就是第三期，這個就是增強，讓我們在第三期經由專家、學者和民眾的參與許願，能夠得到一個比較好的共識。因為我們也發現，環境部提的一些政策，民眾根本不知道、不懂，所以就會造成一些缺口，其實我覺得未來推動空污是需要民眾一起來支持的。"],["楊委員曜：對。"],["彭部長啓明：所以我們希望讓大家能夠知道。"],["楊委員曜：所以政策白皮書是願景？"],["彭部長啓明：對。也希望落實到這個行動的方案。"],["楊委員曜：然後規定的是行動方案？"],["彭部長啓明：對、對、對，我們希望落地到行動方案，當然這裡面我們都是同一個團隊在做，所以這個是彙集大家的意見，有完成的意見之後，才會真的去執行，執行會更有力道。"],["楊委員曜：部長，在2月底的論壇裡面，部長有盤點了八項空污減量遭遇的難題，我可能今天也沒有辦法一一跟部長探討，我問其中幾點，就是汽機車排放的問題，也就是移動污染源的問題，這個的占比比火力發電大得多，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["楊委員曜：我也發現臺灣推動電動機車推動了那麼多年，補助那麼多錢，可是並沒有得到很好的效果，既然你們把這八點列為難題，部長，你有沒有什麼想法？就我現在提出來的汽機車排放的問題。"],["彭部長啓明：關於汽機車排放問題，得從源頭來做，例如把汽機車變成電動化，改善空污，這是最快的作法，不過因為現在的補助，其實相對地，除了空污抵換方式可以補助之外，現在的確回歸到市場機制。"],["楊委員曜：可是我插一下話，我也不覺得長期補助是一件好事，因為在我印象裡，我沒有記錯的話，補助應該也超過10年了。"],["彭部長啓明：10年了，非常多錢。"],["楊委員曜：補助了那麼多錢，可是只要補助減少或補助停止，就沒有人買電動車，這個就是事實嘛！那有沒有什麼方法可以改善？"],["彭部長啓明：如果是汽機車的話，關於電動車，現在其實相對地來說，在造價方面，電動汽車已經相對地比較親民，電動機車有些已經慢慢開始降下來了，所以我們希望從市場面，例如國內幾個電動車的業者能夠加速來進行，不管機車或是汽車都可以來進行。目前的確是慢慢到一個平衡點，相對地價位不會差別太大了。"],["楊委員曜：電動汽車看起來是世界的趨勢，而且好像市場的接受度也慢慢提高了。關於汽車的部分，我還是要在這邊講，假如電池交換的機制沒有辦法很完善，再怎麼推、再怎麼補助都沒有辦法。"],["彭部長啓明：汽車因為比較難交換，那機車的部分……"],["楊委員曜：汽車因為就是國際的趨勢，而且大家比較有信賴感，所以可能還好。現在是機車的部分，因為早期確實是因為電池的品質而造成很多人心裡有障礙，像我本身就是，要怎麼推動電池的統一交換制度，這個可能要想一下。"],["彭部長啓明：委員，我再研究，因為目前這兩家的方式不大一樣，而且也沒辦法整合。"],["楊委員曜：對。這個就還滿可惜的，因為電動化確實是減少污染最快的方式。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["楊委員曜：其他的問題就下一次再問。好，謝謝主席，謝謝部長。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝楊委員。謝謝部長。","接下來請翁曉玲委員來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-3","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","王育敏","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","麥玉珍","賴士葆","張啓楷","張智倫","楊曜","翁曉玲","劉建國","陳瑩","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","黃秀芳","蘇清泉"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、教育部、經濟部、台灣電力公司、台灣中油公司就「氣象變異致\n國內空品惡化，精進預報與跨部會應變作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142901_00004"}}}