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\"林坤火力發電廠居然這個我也很訝異我說實在話我剛剛特別查了一下我也很訝異我要求我要拜託的是這應該是要把它納入一個數字它只有監測PM10但是PM2.5居然沒有\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 352.148, \"end\": 352.288, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"坤\", \"start\": 352.288, \"end\": 352.408, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"火\", \"start\": 352.408, \"end\": 352.528, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 352.528, \"end\": 353.208, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"居\", \"start\": 353.208, \"end\": 353.328, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 353.328, \"end\": 354.049, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 354.049, \"end\": 354.189, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 354.189, \"end\": 354.309, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 354.309, \"end\": 355.069, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"訝\"}, {\"word\": \"異\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 355.069, \"end\": 355.449, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, 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\"一\", \"start\": 362.791, \"end\": 363.191, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 363.191, \"end\": 363.531, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 363.531, \"end\": 363.752, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 363.752, \"end\": 363.932, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 363.932, \"end\": 364.132, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 364.132, \"end\": 364.172, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"M\", \"start\": 364.172, \"end\": 364.312, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 364.312, \"end\": 364.332, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 364.332, \"end\": 364.452, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 364.452, \"end\": 364.672, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"M\", \"start\": 364.672, \"end\": 364.732, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"居\", \"start\": 364.732, \"end\": 364.972, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 364.972, \"end\": 365.392, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 365.392, \"end\": 366.052, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 366.052, \"end\": 366.072, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 368.928, \"end\": 385.657, \"text\": \"就是說我剛剛查了在中央的87個站裡面有包括PM10 PM2.5等相關的數字但是在地方的部分我不知道是只有林口火力發電廠這邊獨特還是其他地方的監測站都一樣他居然沒有把PM2.5的資料給變成是一個監測的資料\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 368.928, \"end\": 369.048, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 369.048, \"end\": 369.568, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 369.568, \"end\": 369.989, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 369.989, \"end\": 370.189, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 370.189, \"end\": 370.429, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 370.429, \"end\": 370.689, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 370.689, 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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 381.295, \"end\": 381.515, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 381.515, \"end\": 381.715, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 381.715, \"end\": 381.995, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 381.995, \"end\": 382.195, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 382.195, \"end\": 382.355, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 382.355, \"end\": 382.756, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 382.756, \"end\": 382.936, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 382.936, \"end\": 383.076, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 383.076, \"end\": 383.436, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 383.436, \"end\": 383.616, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"居\", \"start\": 383.616, \"end\": 383.716, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 383.716, \"end\": 383.916, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 383.916, \"end\": 384.096, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 384.096, \"end\": 384.316, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 384.316, \"end\": 384.577, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 384.577, \"end\": 384.757, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"M\", \"start\": 384.757, \"end\": 384.777, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 384.777, \"end\": 384.817, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 384.817, \"end\": 384.977, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 384.977, \"end\": 385.137, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 385.137, \"end\": 385.237, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 385.237, \"end\": 385.277, \"score\": 0.494}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 385.277, \"end\": 385.637, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 385.637, \"end\": 385.657, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 389.079, \"end\": 405.274, \"text\": \"我覺得是不是如果未來我們變成說空氣品質監測跟預報中心整合在一起能夠再檢討一下中央地方的一些監測站能夠讓數字能夠更準確尤其是我相信我們很多優秀公務同仁有可能坐在林口\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 389.079, \"end\": 389.159, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 389.159, \"end\": 389.339, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 389.339, \"end\": 389.419, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 389.419, \"end\": 389.5, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 389.5, \"end\": 389.64, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 389.64, \"end\": 389.74, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 389.74, \"end\": 389.92, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 389.92, \"end\": 390.5, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 390.5, \"end\": 391.041, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 391.041, \"end\": 391.421, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 391.421, \"end\": 391.782, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 391.782, \"end\": 392.382, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 392.382, \"end\": 392.782, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 392.782, \"end\": 392.923, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 392.923, \"end\": 393.143, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 393.143, \"end\": 393.363, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 393.363, \"end\": 393.543, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 393.543, \"end\": 393.703, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 393.703, \"end\": 393.883, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 393.883, \"end\": 394.444, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 394.444, \"end\": 394.884, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", 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{\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 399.208, \"end\": 399.348, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 399.348, \"end\": 399.649, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 399.649, \"end\": 399.809, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 399.809, \"end\": 400.509, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"尤\", \"start\": 400.509, \"end\": 400.689, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 400.689, \"end\": 400.85, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 400.85, \"end\": 401.63, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 401.63, \"end\": 401.73, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 401.73, \"end\": 401.931, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 401.931, \"end\": 402.231, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 402.231, \"end\": 402.411, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 402.411, \"end\": 402.551, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 402.551, \"end\": 403.012, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"優\"}, {\"word\": \"秀\", \"start\": 403.012, \"end\": 403.212, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 403.212, \"end\": 403.472, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 403.472, \"end\": 403.652, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 403.652, \"end\": 404.473, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 404.473, \"end\": 404.613, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 404.613, \"end\": 404.713, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 404.713, \"end\": 404.853, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"坐\", \"start\": 404.853, \"end\": 404.973, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 404.973, \"end\": 405.053, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 405.053, \"end\": 405.254, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 405.254, \"end\": 405.274, \"score\": 1.0}]}, {\"start\": 406.328, \"end\": 426.127, \"text\": 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00:00:31,928\n部長好部長先請教一下在氣候變遷因應法裡面很明文規定說2050需要進行碳排的一個方向那我們各部會都要動起來對不對那其中環境部這邊應該也針對是說我們現在行政院有個大的政策方向就是認為是說新的這個建案或者是重大的公共工程要\n\n3\n00:00:32,768 --> 00:00:57,814\n零碳建築或是淨零碳建築嗎對不對對零碳建築是什麼基本上建築還是會排碳的但是他基本上能夠盡量的減少例如說要用資源循環的水泥或是建材等等的所以基本上我們叫做淨零碳的建築沒有辦法做到完全的零碳沒有辦法做零碳建築但是可以用其他的政策方向手段或者是說用\n\n4\n00:00:58,414 --> 00:01:15,337\n不管是發電方式還是說那個減少碳排的部分來去做箱底嗎對就是說我說的如果建築物就是建築物的材料的本身來先做處理那會不會因為要零碳追求零碳建築而造成說建築物的安全打折\n\n5\n00:01:16,097 --> 00:01:42,495\n不會其實這個都建築物的成本都有一個規範的例如說什麼樣的像有些例如說水泥或是建築物的材料它都要有一些參比的有些可以用自願循環有些是用原生的材料不一樣好來我們看一下所以即便是鋼筋水泥大樓等等的也不會因為說要追求零碳或淨零碳建築而造成安全性有打折當然建築物安全性是一件最重要考慮的事情\n\n6\n00:01:43,075 --> 00:02:01,575\n沒有錯嘛所以其實本席過去到現在也認為是說就是要這樣的一個方向但很遺憾啊今天本席在交通委員會質詢工程委員會的主委的時候他居然講是說沒有零碳建築啊而且他居然講說如果要追求零碳建築的話就會有安全上的一個打折啊\n\n7\n00:02:02,296 --> 00:02:24,271\n我覺得期期為不可而且覺得說不可思議啊所以部長是不是在這邊本席也提醒因為公共工程委員會是我們全國重大工程的主管機關嘛淨零碳排氣候變遷是環境部主管沒有錯但是我們重大工程如果說能夠來做一個往\n\n8\n00:02:24,980 --> 00:02:54,301\n零碳建築或淨零碳建築這邊來追求的話它是可以趨於這方向而不應該是雙頭馬車嘛對包委員其實這個建築物的更新是我們在我們的這個淨零的分類是內政部在主管的所以其實內政部有提出例如說新型的建築或是老舊的建築怎麼去改變沒錯因為本席也有看到我們行政部門也有這樣的方向嘛但是絕對不存在是說新型的建築裡面我們完全放棄零碳建築或是淨零碳建築嘛\n\n9\n00:02:54,801 --> 00:03:23,031\n是吧沒錯所以我們國家重大工程的方向其實就是希望現在所提出來的就是以零碳建築或淨零碳建築來去做一個規劃是吧沒錯好謝謝部長部長那拉回來今天本席看到就是所謂的這個空氣品質監測的部分那你在這邊結論裡面有強調是說要成立空氣品質監測跟預報中心我想應該會是更精確的能夠掌握我們全台灣的一個空氣品質\n\n10\n00:03:24,131 --> 00:03:52,191\n它其實是因為我們過去這個監測跟預測是在監知師另外一個師然後應變又是大氣師是兩個師那在這當中呢有一些模糊的地帶我們希望把它整併經過我們部務規則的處務規則的調整額外到大氣師然後成立一個中心能夠變成說監測預測應變合為一體來考慮這個事情是本席認同這樣的方向因為重點在於是監測完之後要怎麼樣運用以及讓\n\n11\n00:03:53,132 --> 00:04:09,285\n地方政府也好中央政府也好來去做一個這個因應嘛對不對那本席有先看了一下我們現在有所謂的空氣品質監測網未來是不是你這所謂的一個監測預報中心就會結合現行有的這個監測網\n\n12\n00:04:11,306 --> 00:04:36,041\n能夠讓我們國人有更充足或是準確的一個資訊對其實就原來這組人移到大氣室去但是他必須加上應變的任務使命在裡面是那我想請教一下現在的這個監測網裡面我們總共有多少個一個監測站我們環境部的大概是六十六個嘛七十八個了然後還有很多的這種所謂的微型感測器大概一萬多個\n\n13\n00:04:37,263 --> 00:04:39,694\n地方咧中央其實是87個87個87站地方那地方\n\n14\n00:04:44,702 --> 00:05:08,995\n三十四站這都是你們自己的官網數字啦不是要考你這個部分啦但是我現在講的是說中央87地方34那但是淨零碳排的一個部分或是空氣品質的部分剛剛其實很多人一直提到中火本席過去到現在一直強調其實北台灣影響更大的其實是林口火力發電廠因為林口火力發電廠燃煤\n\n15\n00:05:11,777 --> 00:05:31,376\n從2015年10年前增加了第三號機組開始到現在已經也經過10年了到目前為止林口火力發電廠的一個偵測部分它是由地方政府來偵測而我們今天所討論很多的包括說PM2.5的部分因為這個算是新的一個很客觀的指標\n\n16\n00:05:32,950 --> 00:05:49,738\n部長您知道現在林口火力發電廠此時此刻PM2.5的指數多少嗎要現場查一下要現場查一下你要不要查一下我手邊沒有我直接告訴你沒有因為這一個監測數字在你們的官網上面他是寫未監測\n\n17\n00:05:52,148 --> 00:06:06,072\n林坤火力發電廠居然這個我也很訝異我說實在話我剛剛特別查了一下我也很訝異我要求我要拜託的是這應該是要把它納入一個數字它只有監測PM10但是PM2.5居然沒有\n\n18\n00:06:08,928 --> 00:06:25,657\n就是說我剛剛查了在中央的87個站裡面有包括PM10PM2.5等相關的數字但是在地方的部分我不知道是只有林口火力發電廠這邊獨特還是其他地方的監測站都一樣他居然沒有把PM2.5的資料給變成是一個監測的資料\n\n19\n00:06:29,079 --> 00:06:45,274\n我覺得是不是如果未來我們變成說空氣品質監測跟預報中心整合在一起能夠再檢討一下中央地方的一些監測站能夠讓數字能夠更準確尤其是我相信我們很多優秀公務同仁有可能坐在林口\n\n20\n00:06:46,328 --> 00:07:06,127\n有可能住在我們新北林口火力發電廠三部燃煤機組火力全開的時候真的對於我們整體北台灣的空氣品質有一定程度的影響部長能夠做到嗎因為那個站是台電提供的嘛台電要不要請副總回應一下來報告委員謝謝委員剛剛的詢問\n\n21\n00:07:11,380 --> 00:07:35,025\n那個我們各個電廠含林口電廠我們本身都有跟當地的環保局有SIMS上的連線所有的資訊都有連在上面所有資訊都有的話就不會說網站上面沒秀出來這不是我自己這個是你可以現在去看是地方環保局你可以現在去看因為部長來拉回來部長\n\n22\n00:07:38,175 --> 00:08:00,012\n這個是很實際的數字我更期待的是未來你整合你今天的報告嘛第四點嘛成立空氣品質監測與預報中心我剛才已經先肯定你喔就是說要整合幾個部會預測以及之後的應用大氣的部分一起納進來那本席也期待是說你的官網上要更精進應該是說有一站式的網頁\n\n23\n00:08:02,354 --> 00:08:20,569\n讓國人都可以很清楚明白今天我想了解我地方附近的空氣品質的時候我去點馬上就看得出來那其實這個部分我想技術絕對不難但為什麼說過去沒有把PM2.5的這個數據給放進去而你在上面網站上面秀出來是未監測\n\n24\n00:08:23,849 --> 00:08:33,106\n這一點我想我這樣提出來已經算是很公允我們再來瞭解一下也希望讓大家都能夠理解你有PM10但PM2.5居然沒有這樣可以嗎\n\n25\n00:08:36,569 --> 00:08:55,634\n可以做一個檢討改進好不好大概簡單講一下我那時候我們網頁上是把環保署的環境部的78個站放進來這是第一個再來就是地方的那再來就是四個單位包括台電中鋼等等那些建設站的方位還有特殊性工業區全部放進來\n\n26\n00:08:56,474 --> 00:09:07,262\n那每一個站應該要測什麼項目呢那就各個站原先設站的時候就已經決定了並不是連線的問題所以那邊回頭要去看一下這些站哪一些項目在增減那個我們再\n\n27\n00:09:08,578 --> 00:09:33,244\n抱歉朝偉站起來你們還是沒有抓到問題啊PN2.5是不是現在的顯學是嘛你今天通盤的書面報告裡面都認為說PN2.5是影響空汙甚至造成說肺腺癌我還沒有請衛福部上來2015年開始林口火力發電廠增加三部機組之後過去這十年有沒有針對我們這附近肺腺癌的人口比例有沒有成長\n\n28\n00:09:34,364 --> 00:09:54,015\n要不要去檢討要不要去監測要不要去了解要不要去做一個調查那我現在已經講了如果說過去我們沒有這樣的一個數據我也覺得很離譜是火力發電廠旁邊居然沒有監測PN2.5的數值那如果說真的沒有的話是不是應該要增加相關的設備台電應該吧\n\n29\n00:09:58,956 --> 00:10:16,330\n那既然這樣的話是不是做一個通盤檢討因應我們現在的中心可能未來官網上線會做一個更先進的一個數據的一個呈現也讓國人更清楚明白了解環境部是玩真的是要真真正正監測我們的空汙改善環境好嗎好沒問題謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2233\t2977\t主席謝謝 麻煩請彭部長請部長\n8450\t31928\t部長好部長先請教一下在氣候變遷因應法裡面很明文規定說2050需要進行碳排的一個方向那我們各部會都要動起來對不對那其中環境部這邊應該也針對是說我們現在行政院有個大的政策方向就是認為是說新的這個建案或者是重大的公共工程要\n32768\t57814\t零碳建築或是淨零碳建築嗎對不對對零碳建築是什麼基本上建築還是會排碳的但是他基本上能夠盡量的減少例如說要用資源循環的水泥或是建材等等的所以基本上我們叫做淨零碳的建築沒有辦法做到完全的零碳沒有辦法做零碳建築但是可以用其他的政策方向手段或者是說用\n58414\t75337\t不管是發電方式還是說那個減少碳排的部分來去做箱底嗎對就是說我說的如果建築物就是建築物的材料的本身來先做處理那會不會因為要零碳追求零碳建築而造成說建築物的安全打折\n76097\t102495\t不會 其實這個都建築物的成本都有一個規範的例如說什麼樣的像有些 例如說水泥或是建築物的材料它都要有一些參比的有些可以用自願循環有些是用原生的材料不一樣好 來我們看一下所以即便是鋼筋水泥大樓等等的也不會因為說要追求零碳或淨零碳建築而造成安全性有打折當然建築物安全性是一件最重要考慮的事情\n103075\t121575\t沒有錯嘛所以其實本席過去到現在也認為是說就是要這樣的一個方向但很遺憾啊今天本席在交通委員會質詢工程委員會的主委的時候他居然講是說沒有零碳建築啊而且他居然講說如果要追求零碳建築的話就會有安全上的一個打折啊\n122296\t144271\t我覺得期期為不可而且覺得說不可思議啊所以部長是不是在這邊本席也提醒因為公共工程委員會是我們全國重大工程的主管機關嘛淨零碳排氣候變遷是環境部主管沒有錯但是我們重大工程如果說能夠來做一個往\n144980\t174301\t零碳建築或淨零碳建築這邊來追求的話它是可以趨於這方向而不應該是雙頭馬車嘛對 包委員其實這個建築物的更新是我們在我們的這個淨零的分類是內政部在主管的所以其實內政部有提出例如說新型的建築或是老舊的建築怎麼去改變沒錯 因為本席也有看到我們行政部門也有這樣的方向嘛但是絕對不存在是說新型的建築裡面我們完全放棄零碳建築或是淨零碳建築嘛\n174801\t203031\t是吧沒錯所以我們國家重大工程的方向其實就是希望現在所提出來的就是以零碳建築或淨零碳建築來去做一個規劃是吧沒錯好謝謝部長部長那拉回來今天本席看到就是所謂的這個空氣品質監測的部分那你在這邊結論裡面有強調是說要成立空氣品質監測跟預報中心我想應該會是更精確的能夠掌握我們全台灣的一個空氣品質\n204131\t232191\t它其實是因為我們過去這個監測跟預測是在監知師另外一個師然後應變又是大氣師是兩個師那在這當中呢有一些模糊的地帶我們希望把它整併經過我們部務規則的處務規則的調整額外到大氣師然後成立一個中心能夠變成說監測預測應變合為一體來考慮這個事情是本席認同這樣的方向因為重點在於是監測完之後要怎麼樣運用以及讓\n233132\t249285\t地方政府也好 中央政府也好來去做一個這個因應嘛 對不對那本席有先看了一下我們現在有所謂的空氣品質監測網未來是不是你這所謂的一個監測預報中心就會結合現行有的這個監測網\n251306\t276041\t能夠讓我們國人有更充足或是準確的一個資訊對 其實就原來這組人移到大氣室去但是他必須加上應變的任務使命在裡面是 那我想請教一下現在的這個監測網裡面我們總共有多少個一個監測站我們環境部的大概是六十六個嘛七十八個了然後還有很多的這種所謂的微型感測器大概一萬多個\n277263\t279694\t地方咧中央其實是87個87個87站地方那地方\n284702\t308995\t三十四站這都是你們自己的官網數字啦不是要考你這個部分啦但是我現在講的是說中央87地方34那但是淨零碳排的一個部分或是空氣品質的部分剛剛其實很多人一直提到中火本席過去到現在一直強調其實北台灣影響更大的其實是林口火力發電廠因為林口火力發電廠燃煤\n311777\t331376\t從2015年10年前增加了第三號機組開始到現在已經也經過10年了到目前為止林口火力發電廠的一個偵測部分它是由地方政府來偵測而我們今天所討論很多的包括說PM2.5的部分因為這個算是新的一個很客觀的指標\n332950\t349738\t部長您知道現在林口火力發電廠此時此刻PM2.5的指數多少嗎要現場查一下要現場查一下你要不要查一下我手邊沒有我直接告訴你沒有因為這一個監測數字在你們的官網上面他是寫未監測\n352148\t366072\t林坤火力發電廠居然這個我也很訝異我說實在話我剛剛特別查了一下我也很訝異我要求我要拜託的是這應該是要把它納入一個數字它只有監測PM10但是PM2.5居然沒有\n368928\t385657\t就是說我剛剛查了在中央的87個站裡面有包括PM10 PM2.5等相關的數字但是在地方的部分我不知道是只有林口火力發電廠這邊獨特還是其他地方的監測站都一樣他居然沒有把PM2.5的資料給變成是一個監測的資料\n389079\t405274\t我覺得是不是如果未來我們變成說空氣品質監測跟預報中心整合在一起能夠再檢討一下中央地方的一些監測站能夠讓數字能夠更準確尤其是我相信我們很多優秀公務同仁有可能坐在林口\n406328\t426127\t有可能住在我們新北林口火力發電廠三部燃煤機組火力全開的時候真的對於我們整體北台灣的空氣品質有一定程度的影響部長能夠做到嗎因為那個站是台電提供的嘛台電要不要請副總回應一下來報告委員謝謝委員剛剛的詢問\n431380\t455025\t那個我們各個電廠含林口電廠我們本身都有跟當地的環保局有SIMS上的連線所有的資訊都有連在上面所有資訊都有的話就不會說網站上面沒秀出來這不是我自己這個是你可以現在去看是地方環保局你可以現在去看因為部長來拉回來部長\n458175\t480012\t這個是很實際的數字我更期待的是未來你整合你今天的報告嘛第四點嘛成立空氣品質監測與預報中心我剛才已經先肯定你喔就是說要整合幾個部會預測以及之後的應用大氣的部分一起納進來那本席也期待是說你的官網上要更精進應該是說有一站式的網頁\n482354\t500569\t讓國人都可以很清楚明白今天我想了解我地方附近的空氣品質的時候我去點馬上就看得出來那其實這個部分我想技術絕對不難但為什麼說過去沒有把PM2.5的這個數據給放進去而你在上面網站上面秀出來是未監測\n503849\t513106\t這一點我想我這樣提出來已經算是很公允我們再來瞭解一下也希望讓大家都能夠理解你有PM10但PM2.5居然沒有這樣可以嗎\n516569\t535634\t可以做一個檢討改進好不好大概簡單講一下我那時候我們網頁上是把環保署的環境部的78個站放進來這是第一個再來就是地方的那再來就是四個單位包括台電 中鋼等等那些建設站的方位還有特殊性工業區全部放進來\n536474\t547262\t那每一個站應該要測什麼項目呢那就各個站原先設站的時候就已經決定了並不是連線的問題所以那邊回頭要去看一下這些站哪一些項目在增減那個我們再\n548578\t573244\t抱歉 朝偉站起來 你們還是沒有抓到問題啊PN2.5是不是現在的顯學 是嘛你今天通盤的書面報告裡面都認為說PN2.5是影響空汙甚至造成說肺腺癌我還沒有請衛福部上來2015年開始林口火力發電廠增加三部機組之後過去這十年有沒有針對我們這附近肺腺癌的人口比例有沒有成長\n574364\t594015\t要不要去檢討要不要去監測要不要去了解要不要去做一個調查那我現在已經講了如果說過去我們沒有這樣的一個數據我也覺得很離譜是火力發電廠旁邊居然沒有監測PN2.5的數值那如果說真的沒有的話是不是應該要增加相關的設備台電應該吧\n598956\t616330\t那既然這樣的話是不是做一個通盤檢討因應我們現在的中心可能未來官網上線會做一個更先進的一個數據的一個呈現也讓國人更清楚明白了解環境部是玩真的是要真真正正監測我們的空汙改善環境好嗎好沒問題謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"主席謝謝 麻煩請彭部長請部長\n部長好部長先請教一下在氣候變遷因應法裡面很明文規定說2050需要進行碳排的一個方向那我們各部會都要動起來對不對那其中環境部這邊應該也針對是說我們現在行政院有個大的政策方向就是認為是說新的這個建案或者是重大的公共工程要\n零碳建築或是淨零碳建築嗎對不對對零碳建築是什麼基本上建築還是會排碳的但是他基本上能夠盡量的減少例如說要用資源循環的水泥或是建材等等的所以基本上我們叫做淨零碳的建築沒有辦法做到完全的零碳沒有辦法做零碳建築但是可以用其他的政策方向手段或者是說用\n不管是發電方式還是說那個減少碳排的部分來去做箱底嗎對就是說我說的如果建築物就是建築物的材料的本身來先做處理那會不會因為要零碳追求零碳建築而造成說建築物的安全打折\n不會 其實這個都建築物的成本都有一個規範的例如說什麼樣的像有些 例如說水泥或是建築物的材料它都要有一些參比的有些可以用自願循環有些是用原生的材料不一樣好 來我們看一下所以即便是鋼筋水泥大樓等等的也不會因為說要追求零碳或淨零碳建築而造成安全性有打折當然建築物安全性是一件最重要考慮的事情\n沒有錯嘛所以其實本席過去到現在也認為是說就是要這樣的一個方向但很遺憾啊今天本席在交通委員會質詢工程委員會的主委的時候他居然講是說沒有零碳建築啊而且他居然講說如果要追求零碳建築的話就會有安全上的一個打折啊\n我覺得期期為不可而且覺得說不可思議啊所以部長是不是在這邊本席也提醒因為公共工程委員會是我們全國重大工程的主管機關嘛淨零碳排氣候變遷是環境部主管沒有錯但是我們重大工程如果說能夠來做一個往\n零碳建築或淨零碳建築這邊來追求的話它是可以趨於這方向而不應該是雙頭馬車嘛對 包委員其實這個建築物的更新是我們在我們的這個淨零的分類是內政部在主管的所以其實內政部有提出例如說新型的建築或是老舊的建築怎麼去改變沒錯 因為本席也有看到我們行政部門也有這樣的方向嘛但是絕對不存在是說新型的建築裡面我們完全放棄零碳建築或是淨零碳建築嘛\n是吧沒錯所以我們國家重大工程的方向其實就是希望現在所提出來的就是以零碳建築或淨零碳建築來去做一個規劃是吧沒錯好謝謝部長部長那拉回來今天本席看到就是所謂的這個空氣品質監測的部分那你在這邊結論裡面有強調是說要成立空氣品質監測跟預報中心我想應該會是更精確的能夠掌握我們全台灣的一個空氣品質\n它其實是因為我們過去這個監測跟預測是在監知師另外一個師然後應變又是大氣師是兩個師那在這當中呢有一些模糊的地帶我們希望把它整併經過我們部務規則的處務規則的調整額外到大氣師然後成立一個中心能夠變成說監測預測應變合為一體來考慮這個事情是本席認同這樣的方向因為重點在於是監測完之後要怎麼樣運用以及讓\n地方政府也好 中央政府也好來去做一個這個因應嘛 對不對那本席有先看了一下我們現在有所謂的空氣品質監測網未來是不是你這所謂的一個監測預報中心就會結合現行有的這個監測網\n能夠讓我們國人有更充足或是準確的一個資訊對 其實就原來這組人移到大氣室去但是他必須加上應變的任務使命在裡面是 那我想請教一下現在的這個監測網裡面我們總共有多少個一個監測站我們環境部的大概是六十六個嘛七十八個了然後還有很多的這種所謂的微型感測器大概一萬多個\n地方咧中央其實是87個87個87站地方那地方\n三十四站這都是你們自己的官網數字啦不是要考你這個部分啦但是我現在講的是說中央87地方34那但是淨零碳排的一個部分或是空氣品質的部分剛剛其實很多人一直提到中火本席過去到現在一直強調其實北台灣影響更大的其實是林口火力發電廠因為林口火力發電廠燃煤\n從2015年10年前增加了第三號機組開始到現在已經也經過10年了到目前為止林口火力發電廠的一個偵測部分它是由地方政府來偵測而我們今天所討論很多的包括說PM2.5的部分因為這個算是新的一個很客觀的指標\n部長您知道現在林口火力發電廠此時此刻PM2.5的指數多少嗎要現場查一下要現場查一下你要不要查一下我手邊沒有我直接告訴你沒有因為這一個監測數字在你們的官網上面他是寫未監測\n林坤火力發電廠居然這個我也很訝異我說實在話我剛剛特別查了一下我也很訝異我要求我要拜託的是這應該是要把它納入一個數字它只有監測PM10但是PM2.5居然沒有\n就是說我剛剛查了在中央的87個站裡面有包括PM10 PM2.5等相關的數字但是在地方的部分我不知道是只有林口火力發電廠這邊獨特還是其他地方的監測站都一樣他居然沒有把PM2.5的資料給變成是一個監測的資料\n我覺得是不是如果未來我們變成說空氣品質監測跟預報中心整合在一起能夠再檢討一下中央地方的一些監測站能夠讓數字能夠更準確尤其是我相信我們很多優秀公務同仁有可能坐在林口\n有可能住在我們新北林口火力發電廠三部燃煤機組火力全開的時候真的對於我們整體北台灣的空氣品質有一定程度的影響部長能夠做到嗎因為那個站是台電提供的嘛台電要不要請副總回應一下來報告委員謝謝委員剛剛的詢問\n那個我們各個電廠含林口電廠我們本身都有跟當地的環保局有SIMS上的連線所有的資訊都有連在上面所有資訊都有的話就不會說網站上面沒秀出來這不是我自己這個是你可以現在去看是地方環保局你可以現在去看因為部長來拉回來部長\n這個是很實際的數字我更期待的是未來你整合你今天的報告嘛第四點嘛成立空氣品質監測與預報中心我剛才已經先肯定你喔就是說要整合幾個部會預測以及之後的應用大氣的部分一起納進來那本席也期待是說你的官網上要更精進應該是說有一站式的網頁\n讓國人都可以很清楚明白今天我想了解我地方附近的空氣品質的時候我去點馬上就看得出來那其實這個部分我想技術絕對不難但為什麼說過去沒有把PM2.5的這個數據給放進去而你在上面網站上面秀出來是未監測\n這一點我想我這樣提出來已經算是很公允我們再來瞭解一下也希望讓大家都能夠理解你有PM10但PM2.5居然沒有這樣可以嗎\n可以做一個檢討改進好不好大概簡單講一下我那時候我們網頁上是把環保署的環境部的78個站放進來這是第一個再來就是地方的那再來就是四個單位包括台電 中鋼等等那些建設站的方位還有特殊性工業區全部放進來\n那每一個站應該要測什麼項目呢那就各個站原先設站的時候就已經決定了並不是連線的問題所以那邊回頭要去看一下這些站哪一些項目在增減那個我們再\n抱歉 朝偉站起來 你們還是沒有抓到問題啊PN2.5是不是現在的顯學 是嘛你今天通盤的書面報告裡面都認為說PN2.5是影響空汙甚至造成說肺腺癌我還沒有請衛福部上來2015年開始林口火力發電廠增加三部機組之後過去這十年有沒有針對我們這附近肺腺癌的人口比例有沒有成長\n要不要去檢討要不要去監測要不要去了解要不要去做一個調查那我現在已經講了如果說過去我們沒有這樣的一個數據我也覺得很離譜是火力發電廠旁邊居然沒有監測PN2.5的數值那如果說真的沒有的話是不是應該要增加相關的設備台電應該吧\n那既然這樣的話是不是做一個通盤檢討因應我們現在的中心可能未來官網上線會做一個更先進的一個數據的一個呈現也讓國人更清楚明白了解環境部是玩真的是要真真正正監測我們的空汙改善環境好嗎好沒問題謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.233 --> 00:02.977\n主席謝謝麻煩請彭部長請部長\n\n00:08.450 --> 00:31.928\n部長好部長先請教一下在氣候變遷因應法裡面很明文規定說2050需要進行碳排的一個方向那我們各部會都要動起來對不對那其中環境部這邊應該也針對是說我們現在行政院有個大的政策方向就是認為是說新的這個建案或者是重大的公共工程要\n\n00:32.768 --> 00:57.814\n零碳建築或是淨零碳建築嗎對不對對零碳建築是什麼基本上建築還是會排碳的但是他基本上能夠盡量的減少例如說要用資源循環的水泥或是建材等等的所以基本上我們叫做淨零碳的建築沒有辦法做到完全的零碳沒有辦法做零碳建築但是可以用其他的政策方向手段或者是說用\n\n00:58.414 --> 01:15.337\n不管是發電方式還是說那個減少碳排的部分來去做箱底嗎對就是說我說的如果建築物就是建築物的材料的本身來先做處理那會不會因為要零碳追求零碳建築而造成說建築物的安全打折\n\n01:16.097 --> 01:42.495\n不會其實這個都建築物的成本都有一個規範的例如說什麼樣的像有些例如說水泥或是建築物的材料它都要有一些參比的有些可以用自願循環有些是用原生的材料不一樣好來我們看一下所以即便是鋼筋水泥大樓等等的也不會因為說要追求零碳或淨零碳建築而造成安全性有打折當然建築物安全性是一件最重要考慮的事情\n\n01:43.075 --> 02:01.575\n沒有錯嘛所以其實本席過去到現在也認為是說就是要這樣的一個方向但很遺憾啊今天本席在交通委員會質詢工程委員會的主委的時候他居然講是說沒有零碳建築啊而且他居然講說如果要追求零碳建築的話就會有安全上的一個打折啊\n\n02:02.296 --> 02:24.271\n我覺得期期為不可而且覺得說不可思議啊所以部長是不是在這邊本席也提醒因為公共工程委員會是我們全國重大工程的主管機關嘛淨零碳排氣候變遷是環境部主管沒有錯但是我們重大工程如果說能夠來做一個往\n\n02:24.980 --> 02:54.301\n零碳建築或淨零碳建築這邊來追求的話它是可以趨於這方向而不應該是雙頭馬車嘛對包委員其實這個建築物的更新是我們在我們的這個淨零的分類是內政部在主管的所以其實內政部有提出例如說新型的建築或是老舊的建築怎麼去改變沒錯因為本席也有看到我們行政部門也有這樣的方向嘛但是絕對不存在是說新型的建築裡面我們完全放棄零碳建築或是淨零碳建築嘛\n\n02:54.801 --> 03:23.031\n是吧沒錯所以我們國家重大工程的方向其實就是希望現在所提出來的就是以零碳建築或淨零碳建築來去做一個規劃是吧沒錯好謝謝部長部長那拉回來今天本席看到就是所謂的這個空氣品質監測的部分那你在這邊結論裡面有強調是說要成立空氣品質監測跟預報中心我想應該會是更精確的能夠掌握我們全台灣的一個空氣品質\n\n03:24.131 --> 03:52.191\n它其實是因為我們過去這個監測跟預測是在監知師另外一個師然後應變又是大氣師是兩個師那在這當中呢有一些模糊的地帶我們希望把它整併經過我們部務規則的處務規則的調整額外到大氣師然後成立一個中心能夠變成說監測預測應變合為一體來考慮這個事情是本席認同這樣的方向因為重點在於是監測完之後要怎麼樣運用以及讓\n\n03:53.132 --> 04:09.285\n地方政府也好中央政府也好來去做一個這個因應嘛對不對那本席有先看了一下我們現在有所謂的空氣品質監測網未來是不是你這所謂的一個監測預報中心就會結合現行有的這個監測網\n\n04:11.306 --> 04:36.041\n能夠讓我們國人有更充足或是準確的一個資訊對其實就原來這組人移到大氣室去但是他必須加上應變的任務使命在裡面是那我想請教一下現在的這個監測網裡面我們總共有多少個一個監測站我們環境部的大概是六十六個嘛七十八個了然後還有很多的這種所謂的微型感測器大概一萬多個\n\n04:37.263 --> 04:39.694\n地方咧中央其實是87個87個87站地方那地方\n\n04:44.702 --> 05:08.995\n三十四站這都是你們自己的官網數字啦不是要考你這個部分啦但是我現在講的是說中央87地方34那但是淨零碳排的一個部分或是空氣品質的部分剛剛其實很多人一直提到中火本席過去到現在一直強調其實北台灣影響更大的其實是林口火力發電廠因為林口火力發電廠燃煤\n\n05:11.777 --> 05:31.376\n從2015年10年前增加了第三號機組開始到現在已經也經過10年了到目前為止林口火力發電廠的一個偵測部分它是由地方政府來偵測而我們今天所討論很多的包括說PM2.5的部分因為這個算是新的一個很客觀的指標\n\n05:32.950 --> 05:49.738\n部長您知道現在林口火力發電廠此時此刻PM2.5的指數多少嗎要現場查一下要現場查一下你要不要查一下我手邊沒有我直接告訴你沒有因為這一個監測數字在你們的官網上面他是寫未監測\n\n05:52.148 --> 06:06.072\n林坤火力發電廠居然這個我也很訝異我說實在話我剛剛特別查了一下我也很訝異我要求我要拜託的是這應該是要把它納入一個數字它只有監測PM10但是PM2.5居然沒有\n\n06:08.928 --> 06:25.657\n就是說我剛剛查了在中央的87個站裡面有包括PM10PM2.5等相關的數字但是在地方的部分我不知道是只有林口火力發電廠這邊獨特還是其他地方的監測站都一樣他居然沒有把PM2.5的資料給變成是一個監測的資料\n\n06:29.079 --> 06:45.274\n我覺得是不是如果未來我們變成說空氣品質監測跟預報中心整合在一起能夠再檢討一下中央地方的一些監測站能夠讓數字能夠更準確尤其是我相信我們很多優秀公務同仁有可能坐在林口\n\n06:46.328 --> 07:06.127\n有可能住在我們新北林口火力發電廠三部燃煤機組火力全開的時候真的對於我們整體北台灣的空氣品質有一定程度的影響部長能夠做到嗎因為那個站是台電提供的嘛台電要不要請副總回應一下來報告委員謝謝委員剛剛的詢問\n\n07:11.380 --> 07:35.025\n那個我們各個電廠含林口電廠我們本身都有跟當地的環保局有SIMS上的連線所有的資訊都有連在上面所有資訊都有的話就不會說網站上面沒秀出來這不是我自己這個是你可以現在去看是地方環保局你可以現在去看因為部長來拉回來部長\n\n07:38.175 --> 08:00.012\n這個是很實際的數字我更期待的是未來你整合你今天的報告嘛第四點嘛成立空氣品質監測與預報中心我剛才已經先肯定你喔就是說要整合幾個部會預測以及之後的應用大氣的部分一起納進來那本席也期待是說你的官網上要更精進應該是說有一站式的網頁\n\n08:02.354 --> 08:20.569\n讓國人都可以很清楚明白今天我想了解我地方附近的空氣品質的時候我去點馬上就看得出來那其實這個部分我想技術絕對不難但為什麼說過去沒有把PM2.5的這個數據給放進去而你在上面網站上面秀出來是未監測\n\n08:23.849 --> 08:33.106\n這一點我想我這樣提出來已經算是很公允我們再來瞭解一下也希望讓大家都能夠理解你有PM10但PM2.5居然沒有這樣可以嗎\n\n08:36.569 --> 08:55.634\n可以做一個檢討改進好不好大概簡單講一下我那時候我們網頁上是把環保署的環境部的78個站放進來這是第一個再來就是地方的那再來就是四個單位包括台電中鋼等等那些建設站的方位還有特殊性工業區全部放進來\n\n08:56.474 --> 09:07.262\n那每一個站應該要測什麼項目呢那就各個站原先設站的時候就已經決定了並不是連線的問題所以那邊回頭要去看一下這些站哪一些項目在增減那個我們再\n\n09:08.578 --> 09:33.244\n抱歉朝偉站起來你們還是沒有抓到問題啊PN2.5是不是現在的顯學是嘛你今天通盤的書面報告裡面都認為說PN2.5是影響空汙甚至造成說肺腺癌我還沒有請衛福部上來2015年開始林口火力發電廠增加三部機組之後過去這十年有沒有針對我們這附近肺腺癌的人口比例有沒有成長\n\n09:34.364 --> 09:54.015\n要不要去檢討要不要去監測要不要去了解要不要去做一個調查那我現在已經講了如果說過去我們沒有這樣的一個數據我也覺得很離譜是火力發電廠旁邊居然沒有監測PN2.5的數值那如果說真的沒有的話是不是應該要增加相關的設備台電應該吧\n\n09:58.956 --> 10:16.330\n那既然這樣的話是不是做一個通盤檢討因應我們現在的中心可能未來官網上線會做一個更先進的一個數據的一個呈現也讓國人更清楚明白了解環境部是玩真的是要真真正正監測我們的空汙改善環境好嗎好沒問題謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.233,"end":2.977,"text":"主席謝謝 麻煩請彭部長請部長"},{"start":8.45,"end":31.928,"text":"部長好部長先請教一下在氣候變遷因應法裡面很明文規定說2050需要進行碳排的一個方向那我們各部會都要動起來對不對那其中環境部這邊應該也針對是說我們現在行政院有個大的政策方向就是認為是說新的這個建案或者是重大的公共工程要"},{"start":32.768,"end":57.814,"text":"零碳建築或是淨零碳建築嗎對不對對零碳建築是什麼基本上建築還是會排碳的但是他基本上能夠盡量的減少例如說要用資源循環的水泥或是建材等等的所以基本上我們叫做淨零碳的建築沒有辦法做到完全的零碳沒有辦法做零碳建築但是可以用其他的政策方向手段或者是說用"},{"start":58.414,"end":75.337,"text":"不管是發電方式還是說那個減少碳排的部分來去做箱底嗎對就是說我說的如果建築物就是建築物的材料的本身來先做處理那會不會因為要零碳追求零碳建築而造成說建築物的安全打折"},{"start":76.097,"end":102.495,"text":"不會 其實這個都建築物的成本都有一個規範的例如說什麼樣的像有些 例如說水泥或是建築物的材料它都要有一些參比的有些可以用自願循環有些是用原生的材料不一樣好 來我們看一下所以即便是鋼筋水泥大樓等等的也不會因為說要追求零碳或淨零碳建築而造成安全性有打折當然建築物安全性是一件最重要考慮的事情"},{"start":103.075,"end":121.575,"text":"沒有錯嘛所以其實本席過去到現在也認為是說就是要這樣的一個方向但很遺憾啊今天本席在交通委員會質詢工程委員會的主委的時候他居然講是說沒有零碳建築啊而且他居然講說如果要追求零碳建築的話就會有安全上的一個打折啊"},{"start":122.296,"end":144.271,"text":"我覺得期期為不可而且覺得說不可思議啊所以部長是不是在這邊本席也提醒因為公共工程委員會是我們全國重大工程的主管機關嘛淨零碳排氣候變遷是環境部主管沒有錯但是我們重大工程如果說能夠來做一個往"},{"start":144.98,"end":174.301,"text":"零碳建築或淨零碳建築這邊來追求的話它是可以趨於這方向而不應該是雙頭馬車嘛對 包委員其實這個建築物的更新是我們在我們的這個淨零的分類是內政部在主管的所以其實內政部有提出例如說新型的建築或是老舊的建築怎麼去改變沒錯 因為本席也有看到我們行政部門也有這樣的方向嘛但是絕對不存在是說新型的建築裡面我們完全放棄零碳建築或是淨零碳建築嘛"},{"start":174.801,"end":203.031,"text":"是吧沒錯所以我們國家重大工程的方向其實就是希望現在所提出來的就是以零碳建築或淨零碳建築來去做一個規劃是吧沒錯好謝謝部長部長那拉回來今天本席看到就是所謂的這個空氣品質監測的部分那你在這邊結論裡面有強調是說要成立空氣品質監測跟預報中心我想應該會是更精確的能夠掌握我們全台灣的一個空氣品質"},{"start":204.131,"end":232.191,"text":"它其實是因為我們過去這個監測跟預測是在監知師另外一個師然後應變又是大氣師是兩個師那在這當中呢有一些模糊的地帶我們希望把它整併經過我們部務規則的處務規則的調整額外到大氣師然後成立一個中心能夠變成說監測預測應變合為一體來考慮這個事情是本席認同這樣的方向因為重點在於是監測完之後要怎麼樣運用以及讓"},{"start":233.132,"end":249.285,"text":"地方政府也好 中央政府也好來去做一個這個因應嘛 對不對那本席有先看了一下我們現在有所謂的空氣品質監測網未來是不是你這所謂的一個監測預報中心就會結合現行有的這個監測網"},{"start":251.306,"end":276.041,"text":"能夠讓我們國人有更充足或是準確的一個資訊對 其實就原來這組人移到大氣室去但是他必須加上應變的任務使命在裡面是 那我想請教一下現在的這個監測網裡面我們總共有多少個一個監測站我們環境部的大概是六十六個嘛七十八個了然後還有很多的這種所謂的微型感測器大概一萬多個"},{"start":277.263,"end":279.694,"text":"地方咧中央其實是87個87個87站地方那地方"},{"start":284.702,"end":308.995,"text":"三十四站這都是你們自己的官網數字啦不是要考你這個部分啦但是我現在講的是說中央87地方34那但是淨零碳排的一個部分或是空氣品質的部分剛剛其實很多人一直提到中火本席過去到現在一直強調其實北台灣影響更大的其實是林口火力發電廠因為林口火力發電廠燃煤"},{"start":311.777,"end":331.376,"text":"從2015年10年前增加了第三號機組開始到現在已經也經過10年了到目前為止林口火力發電廠的一個偵測部分它是由地方政府來偵測而我們今天所討論很多的包括說PM2.5的部分因為這個算是新的一個很客觀的指標"},{"start":332.95,"end":349.738,"text":"部長您知道現在林口火力發電廠此時此刻PM2.5的指數多少嗎要現場查一下要現場查一下你要不要查一下我手邊沒有我直接告訴你沒有因為這一個監測數字在你們的官網上面他是寫未監測"},{"start":352.148,"end":366.072,"text":"林坤火力發電廠居然這個我也很訝異我說實在話我剛剛特別查了一下我也很訝異我要求我要拜託的是這應該是要把它納入一個數字它只有監測PM10但是PM2.5居然沒有"},{"start":368.928,"end":385.657,"text":"就是說我剛剛查了在中央的87個站裡面有包括PM10 PM2.5等相關的數字但是在地方的部分我不知道是只有林口火力發電廠這邊獨特還是其他地方的監測站都一樣他居然沒有把PM2.5的資料給變成是一個監測的資料"},{"start":389.079,"end":405.274,"text":"我覺得是不是如果未來我們變成說空氣品質監測跟預報中心整合在一起能夠再檢討一下中央地方的一些監測站能夠讓數字能夠更準確尤其是我相信我們很多優秀公務同仁有可能坐在林口"},{"start":406.328,"end":426.127,"text":"有可能住在我們新北林口火力發電廠三部燃煤機組火力全開的時候真的對於我們整體北台灣的空氣品質有一定程度的影響部長能夠做到嗎因為那個站是台電提供的嘛台電要不要請副總回應一下來報告委員謝謝委員剛剛的詢問"},{"start":431.38,"end":455.025,"text":"那個我們各個電廠含林口電廠我們本身都有跟當地的環保局有SIMS上的連線所有的資訊都有連在上面所有資訊都有的話就不會說網站上面沒秀出來這不是我自己這個是你可以現在去看是地方環保局你可以現在去看因為部長來拉回來部長"},{"start":458.175,"end":480.012,"text":"這個是很實際的數字我更期待的是未來你整合你今天的報告嘛第四點嘛成立空氣品質監測與預報中心我剛才已經先肯定你喔就是說要整合幾個部會預測以及之後的應用大氣的部分一起納進來那本席也期待是說你的官網上要更精進應該是說有一站式的網頁"},{"start":482.354,"end":500.569,"text":"讓國人都可以很清楚明白今天我想了解我地方附近的空氣品質的時候我去點馬上就看得出來那其實這個部分我想技術絕對不難但為什麼說過去沒有把PM2.5的這個數據給放進去而你在上面網站上面秀出來是未監測"},{"start":503.849,"end":513.106,"text":"這一點我想我這樣提出來已經算是很公允我們再來瞭解一下也希望讓大家都能夠理解你有PM10但PM2.5居然沒有這樣可以嗎"},{"start":516.569,"end":535.634,"text":"可以做一個檢討改進好不好大概簡單講一下我那時候我們網頁上是把環保署的環境部的78個站放進來這是第一個再來就是地方的那再來就是四個單位包括台電 中鋼等等那些建設站的方位還有特殊性工業區全部放進來"},{"start":536.474,"end":547.262,"text":"那每一個站應該要測什麼項目呢那就各個站原先設站的時候就已經決定了並不是連線的問題所以那邊回頭要去看一下這些站哪一些項目在增減那個我們再"},{"start":548.578,"end":573.244,"text":"抱歉 朝偉站起來 你們還是沒有抓到問題啊PN2.5是不是現在的顯學 是嘛你今天通盤的書面報告裡面都認為說PN2.5是影響空汙甚至造成說肺腺癌我還沒有請衛福部上來2015年開始林口火力發電廠增加三部機組之後過去這十年有沒有針對我們這附近肺腺癌的人口比例有沒有成長"},{"start":574.364,"end":594.015,"text":"要不要去檢討要不要去監測要不要去了解要不要去做一個調查那我現在已經講了如果說過去我們沒有這樣的一個數據我也覺得很離譜是火力發電廠旁邊居然沒有監測PN2.5的數值那如果說真的沒有的話是不是應該要增加相關的設備台電應該吧"},{"start":598.956,"end":616.33,"text":"那既然這樣的話是不是做一個通盤檢討因應我們現在的中心可能未來官網上線會做一個更先進的一個數據的一個呈現也讓國人更清楚明白了解環境部是玩真的是要真真正正監測我們的空汙改善環境好嗎好沒問題謝謝好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1369,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（13時20分）主席，謝謝。麻煩請彭部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。部長，先請教一下，在氣候變遷因應法中明文規定，2050年淨零碳排的方向，我們各部會都要動起來，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：對於環境部而言，其中行政院這邊有個大的政策方向，新建案或重大公共工程是要零碳建築或淨零碳建築，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：零碳建築是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上，建築還是會排碳的，只能盡量的減少，譬如採用資源循環的水泥或建材等等，我們稱為淨零碳的建築，沒辦法做到完全的零碳。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒辦法做到零碳建築，但是可以用其他的政策方向、手段，或是以發電方式、或是以減少碳排的部分去相抵。"],["彭部長啓明：對，我說的是以建築物本身的材料去做處理，至於……"],["洪委員孟楷：會不會因為追求零碳建築而造成建築物的安全打折？"],["彭部長啓明：不會。"],["洪委員孟楷：絕對不會？"],["彭部長啓明：其實建築物都有一個規範，譬如水泥或建築物的材料都要有一些摻比，有些可以用資源循環、有些是用原生的材料，不一樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我們來看一下。即便是大樓的鋼筋水泥等等，也不會因為要追求零碳或淨零碳建築而造成安全性被打折？"],["彭部長啓明：當然，建築物安全性的考量是最重要的一件事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，沒有錯嘛！從過去到現在，本席也認為就是需要這樣一個方向，但是很遺憾，今天本席在交通委員會質詢公共工程委員會主委時，他居然說沒有零碳建築，甚至說要追求零碳建築就會有安全上的打折，我個人期期以為不可，而且覺得不可思議啊！部長，本席在這邊要做個提醒，公共工程委員會是我們全國重大工程的主管機關，雖然淨零碳排、氣候變遷是環境部主管，沒有錯！但是，如果重大工程能夠往零碳建築或淨零碳建築去追求，它是可以趨於這個方向，而不應該是雙頭馬車嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：對。報告委員，建築物更新在我們的淨零分類是由內政部主管，其實內政部也提出像是新型建築或老舊建築如何去改變。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯！本席看到行政部門也有這樣的方向嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是絕對不存在新型建築完全放棄零碳建築或淨零碳建築，是吧？"],["彭部長啓明：沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們國家重大工程的方向，其實是希望現在提出來的能以零碳建築或淨零碳建築去做規劃，是吧？"],["彭部長啓明：沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝部長。","部長，我們拉回到今天的議題，關於空氣品質監測的部分，你的結論是強調要成立空氣品質監測與預報中心，我想應該是更能精確掌握全臺灣的空氣品質嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：因為過去的監測與預測是在監資司，也就是另外一個司，應變則是在大氣司，分別屬於兩個司，其中有一些模糊的地帶，因此我們希望能夠整併，經過我們處務規則的調整，額外到大氣司，成立一個中心，變成監測、預測、應變合為一體來考慮這件事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，本席認同這樣的方向，因為重點在於監測之後要如何運用，以及讓地方政府或中央政府去做一個因應，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席先看了一下，我們現在有所謂的空氣品質監測網，未來你所謂的監測預報中心是不是就會結合現行已有的監測網，讓國人有更充足、準確的資訊？"],["彭部長啓明：其實就是原本的這組人移到大氣司去，但是必須加上應變的任務、使命在內。"],["洪委員孟楷：請教一下，現在的監測網總共有多少個監測站？"],["彭部長啓明：我們環境部大概有78個，另外還有一萬多個微型感測器。"],["洪委員孟楷：地方呢？中央其實是87個站，地方呢？"],["張司長順欽：地方大概是28個。"],["洪委員孟楷：34站，這都是你們自己的官網數字。現在並不是要考你這個部分，我要講的是中央有87個、地方有34個，針對淨零碳排的部分或空氣品質的部分，剛剛很多人一直提到中火，但是本席從過去到現在都一直強調，對北臺灣影響更大的其實是林口火力發電廠，因為林口火力發電廠燃煤，從2015年增加第3號機組開始，到現在已經過了十年。到目前為止，林口火力發電廠是由地方政府進行偵測，然而今天我們討論很多的PM2.5，因為它算是一個很客觀的新指標，部長，你知道林口火力發電廠此時此刻PM2.5的指數是多少嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：要現場查一下。"],["洪委員孟楷：要現場查一下？"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：你要不要查一下？"],["彭部長啓明：我的手邊沒有……"],["洪委員孟楷：我直接告訴你，沒有，因為這個監測數字在你們的官網上是寫未監測。說實在話，剛剛我特別查了一下，也感到很訝異，所以我要求、我要拜託，應該要將它納入一個數字。它只有監測PM10，居然沒有監測PM2.5，剛剛我查了中央的87個站，包括了PM10與PM2.5等相關的數字，但是在地方的部分，我不知道是不是只有林口火力發電廠這邊比較獨特，或是其他地方的監測站都一樣，居然沒有PM2.5的監測資料。如果未來將空氣品質監測與預報中心整合在一起，希望能夠再檢討中央及地方的一些監測站，讓數字能夠更準確。我相信很多優秀的公務同仁有可能住在林口、有可能住在新北市，林口火力發電廠3部燃煤機組火力全開的時候，對於整個北臺灣的空氣品質真的有一定程度的影響。部長，能夠做到嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：因為那個站是台電提供的，要不要請副總回應一下？"],["郭副總經理天合：報告委員，謝謝委員剛剛的詢問。我們各個電廠，包括林口電廠，本身都與當地的環保局有連線，所有的資訊都有連在上面。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果所有的資訊都有，網站上就不會沒秀出來，這不是我自己說的，你可以自己去看。"],["郭副總經理天合：可能是地方環保局與……"],["洪委員孟楷：你可以現在去看。"],["郭副總經理天合：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，這個是很實際的數字。我更期待的是未來的整合，在你今天所提報告的第4點，成立空氣品質監測與預報中心，剛剛我已經先肯定你，要整合幾個部會，預測以及之後的應用，並將大氣的部分一起納進來。本席也期待你的官網能更精進，應該有一站式的網頁，讓國人都可以清楚明白，今天我想了解地方附近空氣品質的時候，在網站上一點就能馬上看出來。我想這個部分的技術絕對不難，為什麼過去沒有把PM2.5的數據放進去，在網站上秀出來的是未監測？關於這一點，我這樣提出來已經算是很公允了。"],["彭部長啓明：好，我們再來了解一下。"],["洪委員孟楷：也希望讓大家都能夠理解，你有PM10，居然沒有PM2.5，這樣可以嗎？可以做一個檢討改進，好不好？"],["張司長順欽：我大概簡單講一下，我們的網頁是把環境部的78個站放進來，這是第一個。"],["洪委員孟楷：87個站。"],["張司長順欽：再來是地方的。"],["洪委員孟楷：地方的34個站。"],["張司長順欽：再來是事業單位，包括台電及中鋼等等的監測站，還有特殊性工業區，全部都放進來，每一個站應該要測什麼項目，在各個站原先設站時就已經決定了，並不是連線的問題，所以應該是要回頭去看一下，這些站有哪些項目要增減，我們會再去了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：你們還是沒有抓到問題啊！"],["彭部長啓明：委員，我們來努力。"],["洪委員孟楷：PM2.5是不是現在的顯學？是嘛！今天你通盤的書面報告都認為PM2.5會影響空污、甚至會引發肺腺癌，我還沒有請衛福部上來。2015年林口火力發電廠增加3部機組之後，過去十年附近罹患肺腺癌的人數比例有沒有成長？要不要去檢討？要不要去監測？要不要去了解？要不要去調查？我現在已經講了，如果過去我們沒有這樣的數據，我也覺得很離譜的是火力發電廠附近竟然沒有監測PM2.5的數值，如果真的沒有的話，是不是應該要增加相關的設備？台電，應該吧！既然這樣的話，是不是要做一個通盤檢討？"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["洪委員孟楷：因應我們現在的中心可能未來在官網上會做更先進的數據呈現，也讓國人更清楚明白了解，環境部是玩真的、是要真真正正監測我們的空污、改善環境，好嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：好，沒問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪委員、謝謝部長。","接下來請陳培瑜委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-3","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","王育敏","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","麥玉珍","賴士葆","張啓楷","張智倫","楊曜","翁曉玲","劉建國","陳瑩","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","黃秀芳","蘇清泉"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、教育部、經濟部、台灣電力公司、台灣中油公司就「氣象變異致\n國內空品惡化，精進預報與跨部會應變作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142901_00004"}}}