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\"end\": 317.724, \"text\": \"也有所謂的科技的滲透所以我想問一下就是面對這種全方位的滲透總統也宣示了就是要來做正面的因應的時候那麼行政院有跨部會的因應嗎除了國安會議之外\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 299.184, \"end\": 299.384, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 299.384, \"end\": 299.665, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 299.665, \"end\": 300.125, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 300.125, \"end\": 300.986, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 300.986, \"end\": 301.306, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 301.306, \"end\": 302.127, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 302.127, \"end\": 302.668, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"滲\"}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 302.668, \"end\": 303.309, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 303.309, \"end\": 303.469, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 303.469, \"end\": 303.709, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 303.709, \"end\": 303.889, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"想\", 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--> 00:01:21,002\n那麼接下來其實我們就可以有機會美國跟台灣有進一步的合作其實這樣的說法剛好切合了日前我們賴清德總統特別去定調那麼中國就是所謂的敵對勢力而且呢中國對於台灣的威脅不論是統戰或是國安的方方面面其實他也具體地點出了包括主權的威脅、間諜行動還有就是透過這個交流以及認知作戰等等\n\n5\n00:01:26,485 --> 00:01:50,383\n但是滿可惜的是昨天在野黨最主要的在野黨就是國民黨竟然說這個賴總統所說的這個幫中國定位為所謂的敵對勢力讓人民陷於危險之中因此他們要發動所謂的反戒嚴公投請問院長你怎麼看自助人助也會得到天助\n\n6\n00:01:56,982 --> 00:02:02,759\n這個就完全展示我們對於防衛我們自己的決心負責跟我們的信心\n\n7\n00:02:03,769 --> 00:02:32,091\n很多友邦或友門國家當他考慮到要維持印太地區是台海的和平穩定的時候台灣當然是最關鍵的一個角色跟地位這種戰略地位我們自己要認清楚也因為這個樣子我們更要珍惜我們在這裡所做的各種努力至於外交的工作我想部長做得非常的好做得非常辛苦但是成就就一直展現出來那請部長來說明一下現在外交對我們的協助\n\n8\n00:02:34,212 --> 00:02:56,549\n部長回答之前我想先問院長啦所以你認為台灣現在戒嚴了嗎?需要反戒嚴公投嗎?我剛剛說過在國內的政黨只有中國國民黨有戒嚴的經驗或許只有他不知道戒嚴的痛苦目前的台灣沒有戒嚴的時空任何條件所以我說他是在一個黑暗的房間裡面找一隻不存在的黑貓\n\n9\n00:02:57,432 --> 00:03:21,196\n好所以說其實台灣如果有戒嚴那還有哪裡來的公投其實我認為這個完全是邏輯錯亂本末倒置我們來看下一張喔那麼其實這個昨天這個假日啊這個民眾看到我們的卓院長揮出光劍希望帶台灣持續向前我先來問一個輕鬆的話題其實蠻多網友都問說光劍哪裡來的\n\n10\n00:03:24,977 --> 00:03:44,298\n也有在野黨說預算都成功了居然還有光劍可以買院長還是有社會正義人士可以把這個他專屬的光劍借給我們用謝謝這位馬可多大師好所以說是有大師出借專業人士出借希望我們拿著光劍是\n\n11\n00:03:45,427 --> 00:04:05,657\n自由與我們同在民主與我們同在好正義的原理會與台灣同在但是我知道這個口號國家要安全台灣要向前我真的覺得非常的重要本席特別整理了就是現在中國滲透的樣態包括在退降裡面吸引退降主親中的政黨\n\n12\n00:04:07,078 --> 00:04:27,295\n國軍裡面有透過地下權裝來吸引國軍來做訊息的交換甚至於洩密在媒體裡面現在有所謂的在地協力者協助中國的榮媒體來做唱和在產業裡面現在媒體也報導了甚至於在華碩工會裡面有中配在裡頭宣揚統戰\n\n13\n00:04:30,077 --> 00:04:58,664\n甚至於連武統都在所不惜那至於僑界有最新的訊息媒體也報導了就是統戰的勢力已經滲透了海外僑社跟中國的組織在做聯動昨天我質詢習家青委員長的時候也特別提到了在海外雙十國慶現在變成是中國也要滲透結合抗戰勝利八十週年這種荒謬的言論另外當然金融界\n\n14\n00:04:59,184 --> 00:05:17,724\n也有所謂的科技的滲透所以我想問一下就是面對這種全方位的滲透總統也宣示了就是要來做正面的因應的時候那麼行政院有跨部會的因應嗎除了國安會議之外\n\n15\n00:05:18,635 --> 00:05:44,074\n我在當時開會的時候我就說我們會要求所有相關的所有的部會一定要列專案來執行而且我會要求要定期的考核限期的完成所以我們這個禮拜就會開始相關的作業我希望在一定的時間內把17項內容有關的各部會都要訂定出一個未來執行的計畫而且能夠看到它執行的時間\n\n16\n00:05:44,895 --> 00:06:09,869\n好謝謝這個院長非常明確的答覆就是其實我們這個整個內閣是這個光劍一出要對這個所謂中國的滲透必須要有所作為那下一張我們來看的就是其實我剛剛最後一個提到有關於金融面的問題我不知道院長是不是知道在前一陣子媒體特別報導了有一個\n\n17\n00:06:11,771 --> 00:06:38,254\n從中國的財政部底下進入先持股進入國家的中小企業發展基金這個國家是中國的財政部中國的國家然後再往下到了深圳國中小企業發展私募基金然後這一間公司呢它雖然號稱是新加坡的公司然後來台灣開此公司\n\n18\n00:06:39,295 --> 00:07:08,707\n那麼現在會不會是另外一個就是我們知道資安及國安金融的安全更為重要那麼就是台灣的業者如果跟這間新加坡的公司來他的所謂信用卡的核心關鍵技術那麼會不會變成是一個中國滲透進入台灣的一個方法甚至於成為一個樣板我不知道院長知不知道這樣的一個個案跟案例\n\n19\n00:07:15,696 --> 00:07:32,720\n其實我們在金融監理上面對任何比如說我們金融機構委外我們是不限國家地區我們是全面的有要求他們必須針對這些自動安全的系統有一些規範特別是高風險的地區我們更是要求他們要做\n\n20\n00:07:33,320 --> 00:08:01,805\n像這件事情發生以後我們也全面的去了解國內的金融機構相關的這些的他們執行我們也加強了金融機構的一些安全的這些的控管希望他們能夠持續的把這些強化好所以說目前現在來自新加坡號稱是新加坡但是背後是有中資的影子帶的這樣的一個公司本來要進入台灣的信用卡系統目前\n\n21\n00:08:03,326 --> 00:08:31,669\n還會持續進入嗎?還是其實金管會已經做了一些必要的措施?其實跟委員說明一下其實這件事情呢我們立刻就請他一定要務必要這個清查背後的這些的問題而且他們這個系統根本沒有上線就是而且我們要求說這有沒有資安的風險不是你自己說了算你必須找第三方的公正他們也做出了這樣的一個查核發這個系統並沒有相關的後門安全但是呢\n\n22\n00:08:32,089 --> 00:08:46,169\n這件事情他沒有上線所以這個部分應該是被阻缺的報告委員這家公司的背後的關係系統經濟部已經相當有了解我們請郭部長報告委員我想新加坡上這個\n\n23\n00:08:48,078 --> 00:09:07,844\n類似任何科技這些是不是入資公司經濟部經過調查以後確定新加坡商任何科技公司是具有入資控制力的確實為入資公司所以我們將依兩岸條例第93條之一的規定處以新台幣217萬元的發援\n\n24\n00:09:11,529 --> 00:09:21,894\n所以言下之意確實背後是有中資的影子在裡面我們都知道其實台灣的金融是高度尖利這樣的一間公司我們來看下一張\n\n25\n00:09:23,473 --> 00:09:47,147\n他本身他的合作夥伴就通通都是來自於中國那麼當他來自於中國的時候很可能台灣就是他的下一塊想要前進的部分所以在金融如何來避免所謂非紅供應鏈我們知道我們現在在基礎建設我們在國防安全的部分其實都已經開始強調要去除紅色供應鏈\n\n26\n00:09:50,569 --> 00:10:08,590\n但是在金融系統裡面呢因為其實本席特別去找到2019年其實也發生過受險系統受險的核心系統採用到了中國的相關的技術跟系統所以這個部分\n\n27\n00:10:09,929 --> 00:10:30,404\n它並不是一個偶發事件它其實是一個整體的金融國安的部分所以本席就要請問不論是郭部長或者是彭主委我們在金融系統上面我們的IT防範上面如何來避免紅色供應鏈的入侵現在有個方法嗎比如說這一次這個案子恐怕\n\n28\n00:10:31,224 --> 00:10:45,817\n如果他在申請的時候他是以設立公司那麼設立公司我們可能就不一定會經過投審會的相關的審查而且當時業者也說勘查這一間所謂任何科技他並沒有在我們所謂的\n\n29\n00:10:47,099 --> 00:11:03,142\n紅色供應商裡面所以他就認為他是安全的那麼接下來我們既然發現了這個問題之後想請問部長或是主委有沒有一個方式能夠保障台灣金融系統的安全是跟委員說明\n\n30\n00:11:03,672 --> 00:11:25,491\n其實我們在過去我們是不限國家地區我們本來就定有金融機構資通系統服務供應鏈風險管理的規範這部分而且我們也會收集相關的案例特別對這些高風險我們已經開始會採取這些動作像這次為例其實我覺得他們警覺性剛開始確實是需要被強化但是我覺得這件事情從表面上來看\n\n31\n00:11:26,272 --> 00:11:40,724\n可能就是我們未來金融業我們要特別透過這個案例呢告訴他們要特別的強化在我剛才要跟委員特別強調我們在金管這個這部分有兩個重點一個是資安一個是只要任何碰觸到客戶資料的部分我們都會\n\n32\n00:11:41,297 --> 00:12:02,862\n做更嚴格的管理謝謝好最後本席要建議這個院長那就是喔當我來跟業者詢問的時候他會提到的是他們其實是找不到合適的廠商來做合作那我們都知道台灣是IT大國科技大國如果一個信用卡的系統又或者是壽險的系統當我們找不到國內MIT的廠商的時候當然國外的\n\n33\n00:12:08,423 --> 00:12:30,754\n其他非中國的國家非紅色供應鏈如果有價格的問題的時候是不是也可以請數位部應該來做一個整合我相信台灣應該做得出來信用卡等所謂資訊相關需要的系統或者是受險所謂保障客戶的這種系統是不是是應該的我們會請跨部會來互相的協助當\n\n34\n00:12:32,435 --> 00:12:49,666\n金融單位有這樣的需求的時候我也請主委來協調跨部會來協助提供必要的資源廠商這樣才能確保我們的資通安的安全好那因為時間有限我想要跳到我的最後一張PTT那就是我們知道現在有許多的這些公民團體在發起\n\n35\n00:12:51,787 --> 00:13:00,103\n他們屬於自己的罷免權但是從二階的罷免開始其實從一階開始之後不斷地陸續有出現騷擾的行為\n\n36\n00:13:04,868 --> 00:13:25,101\n從3月17號我開始整理這樣一系列一直到去年其實要不就是支持者打人說我是中國人我來鬧場甚至於有志工在路上發禪單就被揮拳然後被當頭K頭然後甚至於是有抄著中國口音的人來鬧場\n\n37\n00:13:27,540 --> 00:13:56,339\n我覺得這是蠻諷刺的啦就是中國連自己的總統都選不出來但是呢卻在台灣滋事那到底他是真的中國人還是台灣人假扮中國人這個恐怕是要由相關的執法單位來做說明但是我要請院長回應的就是台灣是一個自由民主而且受到法律保障的國家雖然國民黨昨天他們在所謂發起\n\n38\n00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:17,511\n公投罷免提案的時候他說要反廢死要還命於民啊但是我們剛剛羅烈看到的這些都是國民黨的支持者我是蠻想呼籲國民黨還命於民之前要不要先還安全於人民難道說台灣民眾自發性的發起他們要\n\n39\n00:14:18,391 --> 00:14:43,072\n展現他們的罷免權卻要被國民黨的支持者來痛打又或者是自稱中國人在台灣這片土地來毆打我們的台灣民眾嗎我覺得這個部分講到這裡我非常的憤怒我也認為院長應該要做一些說明好政府的責任在保障每一位國民合法行使他國民的參政權利\n\n40\n00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:58,716\n政府的責任也在保障每一場合法的活動所有到場的人人身安全如果有這種滋擾的事件那麼要求我們的警政單位檢調單位一定要負起責任部長在這裡請部長來說明\n\n41\n00:14:59,377 --> 00:15:26,632\n是非常謝謝委員的關心我們已經三令五申包括警政署對於有關安全的部分一定要馬上處理那我們也鼓勵各種罷免的活動合法罷免活動的志工如果碰到這樣狀況的話能夠拍照或是錄音錄影然後到現地的派出所馬上報案那我們依照相關的規定馬上來辦理確保在所有的公民活動上面的安全好謝謝辛苦了\n\n42\n00:15:27,841 --> 00:15:35,011\n好謝謝林楚瑩委員咨詢謝謝卓院長各部會首長的備詢接下來我們請登記第32號\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10784\t12048\t謝謝主席 主席有請卓院長\n23601\t44151\t院長早 院長辛苦了本席今天要針對國家安全的議題來跟您請問我們知道昨天有一個非常重要的國際論壇那就是玉山論壇那麼玉山論壇當中我們看到許多民主友邦都提出了針對現在全球受到威權國家逼近那麼其實民主陣線是應該要站在一起的\n44611\t55020\t那我們來看到就是昨天AIT的這個處長古麗妍也特別提到賴總統就打擊中國長期以來的間諜和影響力的行動所提出之倡議\n56687\t81002\t那麼接下來其實我們就可以有機會美國跟台灣有進一步的合作其實這樣的說法剛好切合了日前我們賴清德總統特別去定調那麼中國就是所謂的敵對勢力而且呢中國對於台灣的威脅不論是統戰或是國安的方方面面其實他也具體地點出了包括主權的威脅、間諜行動還有就是透過這個交流以及認知作戰等等\n86485\t110383\t但是滿可惜的是昨天在野黨最主要的在野黨就是國民黨竟然說這個賴總統所說的這個幫中國定位為所謂的敵對勢力讓人民陷於危險之中因此他們要發動所謂的反戒嚴公投請問院長你怎麼看自助人助也會得到天助\n116982\t122759\t這個就完全展示我們對於防衛我們自己的決心負責跟我們的信心\n123769\t152091\t很多友邦或友門國家當他考慮到要維持印太地區是台海的和平穩定的時候台灣當然是最關鍵的一個角色跟地位這種戰略地位我們自己要認清楚也因為這個樣子我們更要珍惜我們在這裡所做的各種努力至於外交的工作我想部長做得非常的好做得非常辛苦但是成就就一直展現出來那請部長來說明一下現在外交對我們的協助\n154212\t176549\t部長回答之前我想先問院長啦所以你認為台灣現在戒嚴了嗎?需要反戒嚴公投嗎?我剛剛說過在國內的政黨只有中國國民黨有戒嚴的經驗或許只有他不知道戒嚴的痛苦目前的台灣沒有戒嚴的時空任何條件所以我說他是在一個黑暗的房間裡面找一隻不存在的黑貓\n177432\t201196\t好所以說其實台灣如果有戒嚴那還有哪裡來的公投其實我認為這個完全是邏輯錯亂本末倒置我們來看下一張喔那麼其實這個昨天這個假日啊這個民眾看到我們的卓院長揮出光劍希望帶台灣持續向前我先來問一個輕鬆的話題其實蠻多網友都問說光劍哪裡來的\n204977\t224298\t也有在野黨說預算都成功了居然還有光劍可以買院長還是有社會正義人士可以把這個他專屬的光劍借給我們用謝謝這位馬可多大師好所以說是有大師出借專業人士出借希望我們拿著光劍是\n225427\t245657\t自由與我們同在 民主與我們同在好 正義的原理會與台灣同在但是我知道這個口號國家要安全 台灣要向前我真的覺得非常的重要本席特別整理了就是現在中國滲透的樣態包括在退降裡面吸引退降主親中的政黨\n247078\t267295\t國軍裡面有透過地下權裝來吸引國軍來做訊息的交換甚至於洩密在媒體裡面現在有所謂的在地協力者協助中國的榮媒體來做唱和在產業裡面現在媒體也報導了甚至於在華碩工會裡面有中配在裡頭宣揚統戰\n270077\t298664\t甚至於連武統都在所不惜那至於僑界有最新的訊息媒體也報導了就是統戰的勢力已經滲透了海外僑社跟中國的組織在做聯動昨天我質詢習家青委員長的時候也特別提到了在海外雙十國慶現在變成是中國也要滲透結合抗戰勝利八十週年這種荒謬的言論另外當然金融界\n299184\t317724\t也有所謂的科技的滲透所以我想問一下就是面對這種全方位的滲透總統也宣示了就是要來做正面的因應的時候那麼行政院有跨部會的因應嗎除了國安會議之外\n318635\t344074\t我在當時開會的時候我就說我們會要求所有相關的所有的部會一定要列專案來執行而且我會要求要定期的考核 限期的完成所以我們這個禮拜就會開始相關的作業我希望在一定的時間內把17項內容有關的各部會都要訂定出一個未來執行的計畫而且能夠看到它執行的時間\n344895\t369869\t好 謝謝這個院長非常明確的答覆就是其實我們這個整個內閣是這個光劍一出要對這個所謂中國的滲透必須要有所作為那下一張我們來看的就是其實我剛剛最後一個提到有關於金融面的問題我不知道院長是不是知道在前一陣子媒體特別報導了有一個\n371771\t398254\t從中國的財政部底下進入先持股進入國家的中小企業發展基金這個國家是中國的財政部中國的國家然後再往下到了深圳國中小企業發展私募基金然後這一間公司呢它雖然號稱是新加坡的公司然後來台灣開此公司\n399295\t428707\t那麼現在會不會是另外一個就是我們知道資安及國安金融的安全更為重要那麼就是台灣的業者如果跟這間新加坡的公司來他的所謂信用卡的核心關鍵技術那麼會不會變成是一個中國滲透進入台灣的一個方法甚至於成為一個樣板我不知道院長知不知道這樣的一個個案跟案例\n435696\t452720\t其實我們在金融監理上面對任何比如說我們金融機構委外我們是不限國家地區我們是全面的有要求他們必須針對這些自動安全的系統有一些規範特別是高風險的地區我們更是要求他們要做\n453320\t481805\t像這件事情發生以後我們也全面的去了解國內的金融機構相關的這些的他們執行我們也加強了金融機構的一些安全的這些的控管希望他們能夠持續的把這些強化好所以說目前現在來自新加坡號稱是新加坡但是背後是有中資的影子帶的這樣的一個公司本來要進入台灣的信用卡系統目前\n483326\t511669\t還會持續進入嗎?還是其實金管會已經做了一些必要的措施?其實跟委員說明一下其實這件事情呢我們立刻就請他一定要務必要這個清查背後的這些的問題而且他們這個系統根本沒有上線就是而且我們要求說這有沒有資安的風險不是你自己說了算你必須找第三方的公正他們也做出了這樣的一個查核發這個系統並沒有相關的後門安全但是呢\n512089\t526169\t這件事情他沒有上線所以這個部分應該是被阻缺的報告委員這家公司的背後的關係系統經濟部已經相當有了解我們請郭部長報告委員我想新加坡上這個\n528078\t547844\t類似任何科技這些是不是入資公司經濟部經過調查以後確定新加坡商任何科技公司是具有入資控制力的確實為入資公司所以我們將依兩岸條例第93條之一的規定處以新台幣217萬元的發援\n551529\t561894\t所以言下之意確實背後是有中資的影子在裡面我們都知道其實台灣的金融是高度尖利這樣的一間公司我們來看下一張\n563473\t587147\t他本身他的合作夥伴就通通都是來自於中國那麼當他來自於中國的時候很可能台灣就是他的下一塊想要前進的部分所以在金融如何來避免所謂非紅供應鏈我們知道我們現在在基礎建設我們在國防安全的部分其實都已經開始強調要去除紅色供應鏈\n590569\t608590\t但是在金融系統裡面呢因為其實本席特別去找到2019年其實也發生過受險系統受險的核心系統採用到了中國的相關的技術跟系統所以這個部分\n609929\t630404\t它並不是一個偶發事件它其實是一個整體的金融國安的部分所以本席就要請問不論是郭部長或者是彭主委我們在金融系統上面我們的IT防範上面如何來避免紅色供應鏈的入侵現在有個方法嗎比如說這一次這個案子恐怕\n631224\t645817\t如果他在申請的時候他是以設立公司那麼設立公司我們可能就不一定會經過投審會的相關的審查而且當時業者也說勘查這一間所謂任何科技他並沒有在我們所謂的\n647099\t663142\t紅色供應商裡面所以他就認為他是安全的那麼接下來我們既然發現了這個問題之後想請問部長或是主委有沒有一個方式能夠保障台灣金融系統的安全是 跟委員說明\n663672\t685491\t其實我們在過去我們是不限國家地區我們本來就定有金融機構資通系統服務供應鏈風險管理的規範這部分而且我們也會收集相關的案例特別對這些高風險我們已經開始會採取這些動作像這次為例其實我覺得他們警覺性剛開始確實是需要被強化但是我覺得這件事情從表面上來看\n686272\t700724\t可能就是我們未來金融業我們要特別透過這個案例呢告訴他們要特別的強化在我剛才要跟委員特別強調我們在金管這個這部分有兩個重點一個是資安一個是只要任何碰觸到客戶資料的部分我們都會\n701297\t722862\t做更嚴格的管理 謝謝好 最後本席要建議這個院長那就是喔當我來跟業者詢問的時候他會提到的是他們其實是找不到合適的廠商來做合作那我們都知道台灣是IT大國 科技大國如果一個信用卡的系統又或者是壽險的系統當我們找不到國內MIT的廠商的時候當然國外的\n728423\t750754\t其他非中國的國家非紅色供應鏈如果有價格的問題的時候是不是也可以請數位部應該來做一個整合我相信台灣應該做得出來信用卡等所謂資訊相關需要的系統或者是受險所謂保障客戶的這種系統是不是是應該的我們會請跨部會來互相的協助當\n752435\t769666\t金融單位有這樣的需求的時候我也請主委來協調跨部會來協助提供必要的資源廠商這樣才能確保我們的資通安的安全好 那因為時間有限我想要跳到我的最後一張PTT那就是我們知道現在有許多的這些公民團體在發起\n771787\t780103\t他們屬於自己的罷免權但是從二階的罷免開始其實從一階開始之後不斷地陸續有出現騷擾的行為\n784868\t805101\t從3月17號我開始整理這樣一系列一直到去年其實要不就是支持者打人說我是中國人我來鬧場甚至於有志工在路上發禪單就被揮拳然後被當頭K頭然後甚至於是有抄著中國口音的人來鬧場\n807540\t836339\t我覺得這是蠻諷刺的啦就是中國連自己的總統都選不出來但是呢卻在台灣滋事那到底他是真的中國人還是台灣人假扮中國人這個恐怕是要由相關的執法單位來做說明但是我要請院長回應的就是台灣是一個自由民主而且受到法律保障的國家雖然國民黨昨天他們在所謂發起\n837920\t857511\t公投罷免提案的時候他說要反廢死要還命於民啊但是我們剛剛羅烈看到的這些都是國民黨的支持者我是蠻想呼籲國民黨還命於民之前要不要先還安全於人民難道說台灣民眾自發性的發起他們要\n858391\t883072\t展現他們的罷免權卻要被國民黨的支持者來痛打又或者是自稱中國人在台灣這片土地來毆打我們的台灣民眾嗎我覺得這個部分講到這裡我非常的憤怒我也認為院長應該要做一些說明好 政府的責任在保障每一位國民合法行使他國民的參政權利\n884400\t898716\t政府的責任也在保障每一場合法的活動所有到場的人人身安全如果有這種滋擾的事件那麼要求我們的警政單位檢調單位一定要負起責任部長在這裡請部長來說明\n899377\t926632\t是非常謝謝委員的關心我們已經三令五申包括警政署對於有關安全的部分一定要馬上處理那我們也鼓勵各種罷免的活動合法罷免活動的志工如果碰到這樣狀況的話能夠拍照或是錄音錄影然後到現地的派出所馬上報案那我們依照相關的規定馬上來辦理確保在所有的公民活動上面的安全好謝謝辛苦了\n927841\t935011\t好 謝謝林楚瑩委員咨詢 謝謝卓院長 各部會首長的備詢接下來我們請登記第32號\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席有請卓院長\n院長早 院長辛苦了本席今天要針對國家安全的議題來跟您請問我們知道昨天有一個非常重要的國際論壇那就是玉山論壇那麼玉山論壇當中我們看到許多民主友邦都提出了針對現在全球受到威權國家逼近那麼其實民主陣線是應該要站在一起的\n那我們來看到就是昨天AIT的這個處長古麗妍也特別提到賴總統就打擊中國長期以來的間諜和影響力的行動所提出之倡議\n那麼接下來其實我們就可以有機會美國跟台灣有進一步的合作其實這樣的說法剛好切合了日前我們賴清德總統特別去定調那麼中國就是所謂的敵對勢力而且呢中國對於台灣的威脅不論是統戰或是國安的方方面面其實他也具體地點出了包括主權的威脅、間諜行動還有就是透過這個交流以及認知作戰等等\n但是滿可惜的是昨天在野黨最主要的在野黨就是國民黨竟然說這個賴總統所說的這個幫中國定位為所謂的敵對勢力讓人民陷於危險之中因此他們要發動所謂的反戒嚴公投請問院長你怎麼看自助人助也會得到天助\n這個就完全展示我們對於防衛我們自己的決心負責跟我們的信心\n很多友邦或友門國家當他考慮到要維持印太地區是台海的和平穩定的時候台灣當然是最關鍵的一個角色跟地位這種戰略地位我們自己要認清楚也因為這個樣子我們更要珍惜我們在這裡所做的各種努力至於外交的工作我想部長做得非常的好做得非常辛苦但是成就就一直展現出來那請部長來說明一下現在外交對我們的協助\n部長回答之前我想先問院長啦所以你認為台灣現在戒嚴了嗎?需要反戒嚴公投嗎?我剛剛說過在國內的政黨只有中國國民黨有戒嚴的經驗或許只有他不知道戒嚴的痛苦目前的台灣沒有戒嚴的時空任何條件所以我說他是在一個黑暗的房間裡面找一隻不存在的黑貓\n好所以說其實台灣如果有戒嚴那還有哪裡來的公投其實我認為這個完全是邏輯錯亂本末倒置我們來看下一張喔那麼其實這個昨天這個假日啊這個民眾看到我們的卓院長揮出光劍希望帶台灣持續向前我先來問一個輕鬆的話題其實蠻多網友都問說光劍哪裡來的\n也有在野黨說預算都成功了居然還有光劍可以買院長還是有社會正義人士可以把這個他專屬的光劍借給我們用謝謝這位馬可多大師好所以說是有大師出借專業人士出借希望我們拿著光劍是\n自由與我們同在 民主與我們同在好 正義的原理會與台灣同在但是我知道這個口號國家要安全 台灣要向前我真的覺得非常的重要本席特別整理了就是現在中國滲透的樣態包括在退降裡面吸引退降主親中的政黨\n國軍裡面有透過地下權裝來吸引國軍來做訊息的交換甚至於洩密在媒體裡面現在有所謂的在地協力者協助中國的榮媒體來做唱和在產業裡面現在媒體也報導了甚至於在華碩工會裡面有中配在裡頭宣揚統戰\n甚至於連武統都在所不惜那至於僑界有最新的訊息媒體也報導了就是統戰的勢力已經滲透了海外僑社跟中國的組織在做聯動昨天我質詢習家青委員長的時候也特別提到了在海外雙十國慶現在變成是中國也要滲透結合抗戰勝利八十週年這種荒謬的言論另外當然金融界\n也有所謂的科技的滲透所以我想問一下就是面對這種全方位的滲透總統也宣示了就是要來做正面的因應的時候那麼行政院有跨部會的因應嗎除了國安會議之外\n我在當時開會的時候我就說我們會要求所有相關的所有的部會一定要列專案來執行而且我會要求要定期的考核 限期的完成所以我們這個禮拜就會開始相關的作業我希望在一定的時間內把17項內容有關的各部會都要訂定出一個未來執行的計畫而且能夠看到它執行的時間\n好 謝謝這個院長非常明確的答覆就是其實我們這個整個內閣是這個光劍一出要對這個所謂中國的滲透必須要有所作為那下一張我們來看的就是其實我剛剛最後一個提到有關於金融面的問題我不知道院長是不是知道在前一陣子媒體特別報導了有一個\n從中國的財政部底下進入先持股進入國家的中小企業發展基金這個國家是中國的財政部中國的國家然後再往下到了深圳國中小企業發展私募基金然後這一間公司呢它雖然號稱是新加坡的公司然後來台灣開此公司\n那麼現在會不會是另外一個就是我們知道資安及國安金融的安全更為重要那麼就是台灣的業者如果跟這間新加坡的公司來他的所謂信用卡的核心關鍵技術那麼會不會變成是一個中國滲透進入台灣的一個方法甚至於成為一個樣板我不知道院長知不知道這樣的一個個案跟案例\n其實我們在金融監理上面對任何比如說我們金融機構委外我們是不限國家地區我們是全面的有要求他們必須針對這些自動安全的系統有一些規範特別是高風險的地區我們更是要求他們要做\n像這件事情發生以後我們也全面的去了解國內的金融機構相關的這些的他們執行我們也加強了金融機構的一些安全的這些的控管希望他們能夠持續的把這些強化好所以說目前現在來自新加坡號稱是新加坡但是背後是有中資的影子帶的這樣的一個公司本來要進入台灣的信用卡系統目前\n還會持續進入嗎?還是其實金管會已經做了一些必要的措施?其實跟委員說明一下其實這件事情呢我們立刻就請他一定要務必要這個清查背後的這些的問題而且他們這個系統根本沒有上線就是而且我們要求說這有沒有資安的風險不是你自己說了算你必須找第三方的公正他們也做出了這樣的一個查核發這個系統並沒有相關的後門安全但是呢\n這件事情他沒有上線所以這個部分應該是被阻缺的報告委員這家公司的背後的關係系統經濟部已經相當有了解我們請郭部長報告委員我想新加坡上這個\n類似任何科技這些是不是入資公司經濟部經過調查以後確定新加坡商任何科技公司是具有入資控制力的確實為入資公司所以我們將依兩岸條例第93條之一的規定處以新台幣217萬元的發援\n所以言下之意確實背後是有中資的影子在裡面我們都知道其實台灣的金融是高度尖利這樣的一間公司我們來看下一張\n他本身他的合作夥伴就通通都是來自於中國那麼當他來自於中國的時候很可能台灣就是他的下一塊想要前進的部分所以在金融如何來避免所謂非紅供應鏈我們知道我們現在在基礎建設我們在國防安全的部分其實都已經開始強調要去除紅色供應鏈\n但是在金融系統裡面呢因為其實本席特別去找到2019年其實也發生過受險系統受險的核心系統採用到了中國的相關的技術跟系統所以這個部分\n它並不是一個偶發事件它其實是一個整體的金融國安的部分所以本席就要請問不論是郭部長或者是彭主委我們在金融系統上面我們的IT防範上面如何來避免紅色供應鏈的入侵現在有個方法嗎比如說這一次這個案子恐怕\n如果他在申請的時候他是以設立公司那麼設立公司我們可能就不一定會經過投審會的相關的審查而且當時業者也說勘查這一間所謂任何科技他並沒有在我們所謂的\n紅色供應商裡面所以他就認為他是安全的那麼接下來我們既然發現了這個問題之後想請問部長或是主委有沒有一個方式能夠保障台灣金融系統的安全是 跟委員說明\n其實我們在過去我們是不限國家地區我們本來就定有金融機構資通系統服務供應鏈風險管理的規範這部分而且我們也會收集相關的案例特別對這些高風險我們已經開始會採取這些動作像這次為例其實我覺得他們警覺性剛開始確實是需要被強化但是我覺得這件事情從表面上來看\n可能就是我們未來金融業我們要特別透過這個案例呢告訴他們要特別的強化在我剛才要跟委員特別強調我們在金管這個這部分有兩個重點一個是資安一個是只要任何碰觸到客戶資料的部分我們都會\n做更嚴格的管理 謝謝好 最後本席要建議這個院長那就是喔當我來跟業者詢問的時候他會提到的是他們其實是找不到合適的廠商來做合作那我們都知道台灣是IT大國 科技大國如果一個信用卡的系統又或者是壽險的系統當我們找不到國內MIT的廠商的時候當然國外的\n其他非中國的國家非紅色供應鏈如果有價格的問題的時候是不是也可以請數位部應該來做一個整合我相信台灣應該做得出來信用卡等所謂資訊相關需要的系統或者是受險所謂保障客戶的這種系統是不是是應該的我們會請跨部會來互相的協助當\n金融單位有這樣的需求的時候我也請主委來協調跨部會來協助提供必要的資源廠商這樣才能確保我們的資通安的安全好 那因為時間有限我想要跳到我的最後一張PTT那就是我們知道現在有許多的這些公民團體在發起\n他們屬於自己的罷免權但是從二階的罷免開始其實從一階開始之後不斷地陸續有出現騷擾的行為\n從3月17號我開始整理這樣一系列一直到去年其實要不就是支持者打人說我是中國人我來鬧場甚至於有志工在路上發禪單就被揮拳然後被當頭K頭然後甚至於是有抄著中國口音的人來鬧場\n我覺得這是蠻諷刺的啦就是中國連自己的總統都選不出來但是呢卻在台灣滋事那到底他是真的中國人還是台灣人假扮中國人這個恐怕是要由相關的執法單位來做說明但是我要請院長回應的就是台灣是一個自由民主而且受到法律保障的國家雖然國民黨昨天他們在所謂發起\n公投罷免提案的時候他說要反廢死要還命於民啊但是我們剛剛羅烈看到的這些都是國民黨的支持者我是蠻想呼籲國民黨還命於民之前要不要先還安全於人民難道說台灣民眾自發性的發起他們要\n展現他們的罷免權卻要被國民黨的支持者來痛打又或者是自稱中國人在台灣這片土地來毆打我們的台灣民眾嗎我覺得這個部分講到這裡我非常的憤怒我也認為院長應該要做一些說明好 政府的責任在保障每一位國民合法行使他國民的參政權利\n政府的責任也在保障每一場合法的活動所有到場的人人身安全如果有這種滋擾的事件那麼要求我們的警政單位檢調單位一定要負起責任部長在這裡請部長來說明\n是非常謝謝委員的關心我們已經三令五申包括警政署對於有關安全的部分一定要馬上處理那我們也鼓勵各種罷免的活動合法罷免活動的志工如果碰到這樣狀況的話能夠拍照或是錄音錄影然後到現地的派出所馬上報案那我們依照相關的規定馬上來辦理確保在所有的公民活動上面的安全好謝謝辛苦了\n好 謝謝林楚瑩委員咨詢 謝謝卓院長 各部會首長的備詢接下來我們請登記第32號\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.784 --> 00:12.048\n謝謝主席主席有請卓院長\n\n00:23.601 --> 00:44.151\n院長早院長辛苦了本席今天要針對國家安全的議題來跟您請問我們知道昨天有一個非常重要的國際論壇那就是玉山論壇那麼玉山論壇當中我們看到許多民主友邦都提出了針對現在全球受到威權國家逼近那麼其實民主陣線是應該要站在一起的\n\n00:44.611 --> 00:55.020\n那我們來看到就是昨天AIT的這個處長古麗妍也特別提到賴總統就打擊中國長期以來的間諜和影響力的行動所提出之倡議\n\n00:56.687 --> 01:21.002\n那麼接下來其實我們就可以有機會美國跟台灣有進一步的合作其實這樣的說法剛好切合了日前我們賴清德總統特別去定調那麼中國就是所謂的敵對勢力而且呢中國對於台灣的威脅不論是統戰或是國安的方方面面其實他也具體地點出了包括主權的威脅、間諜行動還有就是透過這個交流以及認知作戰等等\n\n01:26.485 --> 01:50.383\n但是滿可惜的是昨天在野黨最主要的在野黨就是國民黨竟然說這個賴總統所說的這個幫中國定位為所謂的敵對勢力讓人民陷於危險之中因此他們要發動所謂的反戒嚴公投請問院長你怎麼看自助人助也會得到天助\n\n01:56.982 --> 02:02.759\n這個就完全展示我們對於防衛我們自己的決心負責跟我們的信心\n\n02:03.769 --> 02:32.091\n很多友邦或友門國家當他考慮到要維持印太地區是台海的和平穩定的時候台灣當然是最關鍵的一個角色跟地位這種戰略地位我們自己要認清楚也因為這個樣子我們更要珍惜我們在這裡所做的各種努力至於外交的工作我想部長做得非常的好做得非常辛苦但是成就就一直展現出來那請部長來說明一下現在外交對我們的協助\n\n02:34.212 --> 02:56.549\n部長回答之前我想先問院長啦所以你認為台灣現在戒嚴了嗎?需要反戒嚴公投嗎?我剛剛說過在國內的政黨只有中國國民黨有戒嚴的經驗或許只有他不知道戒嚴的痛苦目前的台灣沒有戒嚴的時空任何條件所以我說他是在一個黑暗的房間裡面找一隻不存在的黑貓\n\n02:57.432 --> 03:21.196\n好所以說其實台灣如果有戒嚴那還有哪裡來的公投其實我認為這個完全是邏輯錯亂本末倒置我們來看下一張喔那麼其實這個昨天這個假日啊這個民眾看到我們的卓院長揮出光劍希望帶台灣持續向前我先來問一個輕鬆的話題其實蠻多網友都問說光劍哪裡來的\n\n03:24.977 --> 03:44.298\n也有在野黨說預算都成功了居然還有光劍可以買院長還是有社會正義人士可以把這個他專屬的光劍借給我們用謝謝這位馬可多大師好所以說是有大師出借專業人士出借希望我們拿著光劍是\n\n03:45.427 --> 04:05.657\n自由與我們同在民主與我們同在好正義的原理會與台灣同在但是我知道這個口號國家要安全台灣要向前我真的覺得非常的重要本席特別整理了就是現在中國滲透的樣態包括在退降裡面吸引退降主親中的政黨\n\n04:07.078 --> 04:27.295\n國軍裡面有透過地下權裝來吸引國軍來做訊息的交換甚至於洩密在媒體裡面現在有所謂的在地協力者協助中國的榮媒體來做唱和在產業裡面現在媒體也報導了甚至於在華碩工會裡面有中配在裡頭宣揚統戰\n\n04:30.077 --> 04:58.664\n甚至於連武統都在所不惜那至於僑界有最新的訊息媒體也報導了就是統戰的勢力已經滲透了海外僑社跟中國的組織在做聯動昨天我質詢習家青委員長的時候也特別提到了在海外雙十國慶現在變成是中國也要滲透結合抗戰勝利八十週年這種荒謬的言論另外當然金融界\n\n04:59.184 --> 05:17.724\n也有所謂的科技的滲透所以我想問一下就是面對這種全方位的滲透總統也宣示了就是要來做正面的因應的時候那麼行政院有跨部會的因應嗎除了國安會議之外\n\n05:18.635 --> 05:44.074\n我在當時開會的時候我就說我們會要求所有相關的所有的部會一定要列專案來執行而且我會要求要定期的考核限期的完成所以我們這個禮拜就會開始相關的作業我希望在一定的時間內把17項內容有關的各部會都要訂定出一個未來執行的計畫而且能夠看到它執行的時間\n\n05:44.895 --> 06:09.869\n好謝謝這個院長非常明確的答覆就是其實我們這個整個內閣是這個光劍一出要對這個所謂中國的滲透必須要有所作為那下一張我們來看的就是其實我剛剛最後一個提到有關於金融面的問題我不知道院長是不是知道在前一陣子媒體特別報導了有一個\n\n06:11.771 --> 06:38.254\n從中國的財政部底下進入先持股進入國家的中小企業發展基金這個國家是中國的財政部中國的國家然後再往下到了深圳國中小企業發展私募基金然後這一間公司呢它雖然號稱是新加坡的公司然後來台灣開此公司\n\n06:39.295 --> 07:08.707\n那麼現在會不會是另外一個就是我們知道資安及國安金融的安全更為重要那麼就是台灣的業者如果跟這間新加坡的公司來他的所謂信用卡的核心關鍵技術那麼會不會變成是一個中國滲透進入台灣的一個方法甚至於成為一個樣板我不知道院長知不知道這樣的一個個案跟案例\n\n07:15.696 --> 07:32.720\n其實我們在金融監理上面對任何比如說我們金融機構委外我們是不限國家地區我們是全面的有要求他們必須針對這些自動安全的系統有一些規範特別是高風險的地區我們更是要求他們要做\n\n07:33.320 --> 08:01.805\n像這件事情發生以後我們也全面的去了解國內的金融機構相關的這些的他們執行我們也加強了金融機構的一些安全的這些的控管希望他們能夠持續的把這些強化好所以說目前現在來自新加坡號稱是新加坡但是背後是有中資的影子帶的這樣的一個公司本來要進入台灣的信用卡系統目前\n\n08:03.326 --> 08:31.669\n還會持續進入嗎?還是其實金管會已經做了一些必要的措施?其實跟委員說明一下其實這件事情呢我們立刻就請他一定要務必要這個清查背後的這些的問題而且他們這個系統根本沒有上線就是而且我們要求說這有沒有資安的風險不是你自己說了算你必須找第三方的公正他們也做出了這樣的一個查核發這個系統並沒有相關的後門安全但是呢\n\n08:32.089 --> 08:46.169\n這件事情他沒有上線所以這個部分應該是被阻缺的報告委員這家公司的背後的關係系統經濟部已經相當有了解我們請郭部長報告委員我想新加坡上這個\n\n08:48.078 --> 09:07.844\n類似任何科技這些是不是入資公司經濟部經過調查以後確定新加坡商任何科技公司是具有入資控制力的確實為入資公司所以我們將依兩岸條例第93條之一的規定處以新台幣217萬元的發援\n\n09:11.529 --> 09:21.894\n所以言下之意確實背後是有中資的影子在裡面我們都知道其實台灣的金融是高度尖利這樣的一間公司我們來看下一張\n\n09:23.473 --> 09:47.147\n他本身他的合作夥伴就通通都是來自於中國那麼當他來自於中國的時候很可能台灣就是他的下一塊想要前進的部分所以在金融如何來避免所謂非紅供應鏈我們知道我們現在在基礎建設我們在國防安全的部分其實都已經開始強調要去除紅色供應鏈\n\n09:50.569 --> 10:08.590\n但是在金融系統裡面呢因為其實本席特別去找到2019年其實也發生過受險系統受險的核心系統採用到了中國的相關的技術跟系統所以這個部分\n\n10:09.929 --> 10:30.404\n它並不是一個偶發事件它其實是一個整體的金融國安的部分所以本席就要請問不論是郭部長或者是彭主委我們在金融系統上面我們的IT防範上面如何來避免紅色供應鏈的入侵現在有個方法嗎比如說這一次這個案子恐怕\n\n10:31.224 --> 10:45.817\n如果他在申請的時候他是以設立公司那麼設立公司我們可能就不一定會經過投審會的相關的審查而且當時業者也說勘查這一間所謂任何科技他並沒有在我們所謂的\n\n10:47.099 --> 11:03.142\n紅色供應商裡面所以他就認為他是安全的那麼接下來我們既然發現了這個問題之後想請問部長或是主委有沒有一個方式能夠保障台灣金融系統的安全是跟委員說明\n\n11:03.672 --> 11:25.491\n其實我們在過去我們是不限國家地區我們本來就定有金融機構資通系統服務供應鏈風險管理的規範這部分而且我們也會收集相關的案例特別對這些高風險我們已經開始會採取這些動作像這次為例其實我覺得他們警覺性剛開始確實是需要被強化但是我覺得這件事情從表面上來看\n\n11:26.272 --> 11:40.724\n可能就是我們未來金融業我們要特別透過這個案例呢告訴他們要特別的強化在我剛才要跟委員特別強調我們在金管這個這部分有兩個重點一個是資安一個是只要任何碰觸到客戶資料的部分我們都會\n\n11:41.297 --> 12:02.862\n做更嚴格的管理謝謝好最後本席要建議這個院長那就是喔當我來跟業者詢問的時候他會提到的是他們其實是找不到合適的廠商來做合作那我們都知道台灣是IT大國科技大國如果一個信用卡的系統又或者是壽險的系統當我們找不到國內MIT的廠商的時候當然國外的\n\n12:08.423 --> 12:30.754\n其他非中國的國家非紅色供應鏈如果有價格的問題的時候是不是也可以請數位部應該來做一個整合我相信台灣應該做得出來信用卡等所謂資訊相關需要的系統或者是受險所謂保障客戶的這種系統是不是是應該的我們會請跨部會來互相的協助當\n\n12:32.435 --> 12:49.666\n金融單位有這樣的需求的時候我也請主委來協調跨部會來協助提供必要的資源廠商這樣才能確保我們的資通安的安全好那因為時間有限我想要跳到我的最後一張PTT那就是我們知道現在有許多的這些公民團體在發起\n\n12:51.787 --> 13:00.103\n他們屬於自己的罷免權但是從二階的罷免開始其實從一階開始之後不斷地陸續有出現騷擾的行為\n\n13:04.868 --> 13:25.101\n從3月17號我開始整理這樣一系列一直到去年其實要不就是支持者打人說我是中國人我來鬧場甚至於有志工在路上發禪單就被揮拳然後被當頭K頭然後甚至於是有抄著中國口音的人來鬧場\n\n13:27.540 --> 13:56.339\n我覺得這是蠻諷刺的啦就是中國連自己的總統都選不出來但是呢卻在台灣滋事那到底他是真的中國人還是台灣人假扮中國人這個恐怕是要由相關的執法單位來做說明但是我要請院長回應的就是台灣是一個自由民主而且受到法律保障的國家雖然國民黨昨天他們在所謂發起\n\n13:57.920 --> 14:17.511\n公投罷免提案的時候他說要反廢死要還命於民啊但是我們剛剛羅烈看到的這些都是國民黨的支持者我是蠻想呼籲國民黨還命於民之前要不要先還安全於人民難道說台灣民眾自發性的發起他們要\n\n14:18.391 --> 14:43.072\n展現他們的罷免權卻要被國民黨的支持者來痛打又或者是自稱中國人在台灣這片土地來毆打我們的台灣民眾嗎我覺得這個部分講到這裡我非常的憤怒我也認為院長應該要做一些說明好政府的責任在保障每一位國民合法行使他國民的參政權利\n\n14:44.400 --> 14:58.716\n政府的責任也在保障每一場合法的活動所有到場的人人身安全如果有這種滋擾的事件那麼要求我們的警政單位檢調單位一定要負起責任部長在這裡請部長來說明\n\n14:59.377 --> 15:26.632\n是非常謝謝委員的關心我們已經三令五申包括警政署對於有關安全的部分一定要馬上處理那我們也鼓勵各種罷免的活動合法罷免活動的志工如果碰到這樣狀況的話能夠拍照或是錄音錄影然後到現地的派出所馬上報案那我們依照相關的規定馬上來辦理確保在所有的公民活動上面的安全好謝謝辛苦了\n\n15:27.841 --> 15:35.011\n好謝謝林楚瑩委員咨詢謝謝卓院長各部會首長的備詢接下來我們請登記第32號\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.784,"end":12.048,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請卓院長"},{"start":23.601,"end":44.151,"text":"院長早 院長辛苦了本席今天要針對國家安全的議題來跟您請問我們知道昨天有一個非常重要的國際論壇那就是玉山論壇那麼玉山論壇當中我們看到許多民主友邦都提出了針對現在全球受到威權國家逼近那麼其實民主陣線是應該要站在一起的"},{"start":44.611,"end":55.02,"text":"那我們來看到就是昨天AIT的這個處長古麗妍也特別提到賴總統就打擊中國長期以來的間諜和影響力的行動所提出之倡議"},{"start":56.687,"end":81.002,"text":"那麼接下來其實我們就可以有機會美國跟台灣有進一步的合作其實這樣的說法剛好切合了日前我們賴清德總統特別去定調那麼中國就是所謂的敵對勢力而且呢中國對於台灣的威脅不論是統戰或是國安的方方面面其實他也具體地點出了包括主權的威脅、間諜行動還有就是透過這個交流以及認知作戰等等"},{"start":86.485,"end":110.383,"text":"但是滿可惜的是昨天在野黨最主要的在野黨就是國民黨竟然說這個賴總統所說的這個幫中國定位為所謂的敵對勢力讓人民陷於危險之中因此他們要發動所謂的反戒嚴公投請問院長你怎麼看自助人助也會得到天助"},{"start":116.982,"end":122.759,"text":"這個就完全展示我們對於防衛我們自己的決心負責跟我們的信心"},{"start":123.769,"end":152.091,"text":"很多友邦或友門國家當他考慮到要維持印太地區是台海的和平穩定的時候台灣當然是最關鍵的一個角色跟地位這種戰略地位我們自己要認清楚也因為這個樣子我們更要珍惜我們在這裡所做的各種努力至於外交的工作我想部長做得非常的好做得非常辛苦但是成就就一直展現出來那請部長來說明一下現在外交對我們的協助"},{"start":154.212,"end":176.549,"text":"部長回答之前我想先問院長啦所以你認為台灣現在戒嚴了嗎?需要反戒嚴公投嗎?我剛剛說過在國內的政黨只有中國國民黨有戒嚴的經驗或許只有他不知道戒嚴的痛苦目前的台灣沒有戒嚴的時空任何條件所以我說他是在一個黑暗的房間裡面找一隻不存在的黑貓"},{"start":177.432,"end":201.196,"text":"好所以說其實台灣如果有戒嚴那還有哪裡來的公投其實我認為這個完全是邏輯錯亂本末倒置我們來看下一張喔那麼其實這個昨天這個假日啊這個民眾看到我們的卓院長揮出光劍希望帶台灣持續向前我先來問一個輕鬆的話題其實蠻多網友都問說光劍哪裡來的"},{"start":204.977,"end":224.298,"text":"也有在野黨說預算都成功了居然還有光劍可以買院長還是有社會正義人士可以把這個他專屬的光劍借給我們用謝謝這位馬可多大師好所以說是有大師出借專業人士出借希望我們拿著光劍是"},{"start":225.427,"end":245.657,"text":"自由與我們同在 民主與我們同在好 正義的原理會與台灣同在但是我知道這個口號國家要安全 台灣要向前我真的覺得非常的重要本席特別整理了就是現在中國滲透的樣態包括在退降裡面吸引退降主親中的政黨"},{"start":247.078,"end":267.295,"text":"國軍裡面有透過地下權裝來吸引國軍來做訊息的交換甚至於洩密在媒體裡面現在有所謂的在地協力者協助中國的榮媒體來做唱和在產業裡面現在媒體也報導了甚至於在華碩工會裡面有中配在裡頭宣揚統戰"},{"start":270.077,"end":298.664,"text":"甚至於連武統都在所不惜那至於僑界有最新的訊息媒體也報導了就是統戰的勢力已經滲透了海外僑社跟中國的組織在做聯動昨天我質詢習家青委員長的時候也特別提到了在海外雙十國慶現在變成是中國也要滲透結合抗戰勝利八十週年這種荒謬的言論另外當然金融界"},{"start":299.184,"end":317.724,"text":"也有所謂的科技的滲透所以我想問一下就是面對這種全方位的滲透總統也宣示了就是要來做正面的因應的時候那麼行政院有跨部會的因應嗎除了國安會議之外"},{"start":318.635,"end":344.074,"text":"我在當時開會的時候我就說我們會要求所有相關的所有的部會一定要列專案來執行而且我會要求要定期的考核 限期的完成所以我們這個禮拜就會開始相關的作業我希望在一定的時間內把17項內容有關的各部會都要訂定出一個未來執行的計畫而且能夠看到它執行的時間"},{"start":344.895,"end":369.869,"text":"好 謝謝這個院長非常明確的答覆就是其實我們這個整個內閣是這個光劍一出要對這個所謂中國的滲透必須要有所作為那下一張我們來看的就是其實我剛剛最後一個提到有關於金融面的問題我不知道院長是不是知道在前一陣子媒體特別報導了有一個"},{"start":371.771,"end":398.254,"text":"從中國的財政部底下進入先持股進入國家的中小企業發展基金這個國家是中國的財政部中國的國家然後再往下到了深圳國中小企業發展私募基金然後這一間公司呢它雖然號稱是新加坡的公司然後來台灣開此公司"},{"start":399.295,"end":428.707,"text":"那麼現在會不會是另外一個就是我們知道資安及國安金融的安全更為重要那麼就是台灣的業者如果跟這間新加坡的公司來他的所謂信用卡的核心關鍵技術那麼會不會變成是一個中國滲透進入台灣的一個方法甚至於成為一個樣板我不知道院長知不知道這樣的一個個案跟案例"},{"start":435.696,"end":452.72,"text":"其實我們在金融監理上面對任何比如說我們金融機構委外我們是不限國家地區我們是全面的有要求他們必須針對這些自動安全的系統有一些規範特別是高風險的地區我們更是要求他們要做"},{"start":453.32,"end":481.805,"text":"像這件事情發生以後我們也全面的去了解國內的金融機構相關的這些的他們執行我們也加強了金融機構的一些安全的這些的控管希望他們能夠持續的把這些強化好所以說目前現在來自新加坡號稱是新加坡但是背後是有中資的影子帶的這樣的一個公司本來要進入台灣的信用卡系統目前"},{"start":483.326,"end":511.669,"text":"還會持續進入嗎?還是其實金管會已經做了一些必要的措施?其實跟委員說明一下其實這件事情呢我們立刻就請他一定要務必要這個清查背後的這些的問題而且他們這個系統根本沒有上線就是而且我們要求說這有沒有資安的風險不是你自己說了算你必須找第三方的公正他們也做出了這樣的一個查核發這個系統並沒有相關的後門安全但是呢"},{"start":512.089,"end":526.169,"text":"這件事情他沒有上線所以這個部分應該是被阻缺的報告委員這家公司的背後的關係系統經濟部已經相當有了解我們請郭部長報告委員我想新加坡上這個"},{"start":528.078,"end":547.844,"text":"類似任何科技這些是不是入資公司經濟部經過調查以後確定新加坡商任何科技公司是具有入資控制力的確實為入資公司所以我們將依兩岸條例第93條之一的規定處以新台幣217萬元的發援"},{"start":551.529,"end":561.894,"text":"所以言下之意確實背後是有中資的影子在裡面我們都知道其實台灣的金融是高度尖利這樣的一間公司我們來看下一張"},{"start":563.473,"end":587.147,"text":"他本身他的合作夥伴就通通都是來自於中國那麼當他來自於中國的時候很可能台灣就是他的下一塊想要前進的部分所以在金融如何來避免所謂非紅供應鏈我們知道我們現在在基礎建設我們在國防安全的部分其實都已經開始強調要去除紅色供應鏈"},{"start":590.569,"end":608.59,"text":"但是在金融系統裡面呢因為其實本席特別去找到2019年其實也發生過受險系統受險的核心系統採用到了中國的相關的技術跟系統所以這個部分"},{"start":609.929,"end":630.404,"text":"它並不是一個偶發事件它其實是一個整體的金融國安的部分所以本席就要請問不論是郭部長或者是彭主委我們在金融系統上面我們的IT防範上面如何來避免紅色供應鏈的入侵現在有個方法嗎比如說這一次這個案子恐怕"},{"start":631.224,"end":645.817,"text":"如果他在申請的時候他是以設立公司那麼設立公司我們可能就不一定會經過投審會的相關的審查而且當時業者也說勘查這一間所謂任何科技他並沒有在我們所謂的"},{"start":647.099,"end":663.142,"text":"紅色供應商裡面所以他就認為他是安全的那麼接下來我們既然發現了這個問題之後想請問部長或是主委有沒有一個方式能夠保障台灣金融系統的安全是 跟委員說明"},{"start":663.672,"end":685.491,"text":"其實我們在過去我們是不限國家地區我們本來就定有金融機構資通系統服務供應鏈風險管理的規範這部分而且我們也會收集相關的案例特別對這些高風險我們已經開始會採取這些動作像這次為例其實我覺得他們警覺性剛開始確實是需要被強化但是我覺得這件事情從表面上來看"},{"start":686.272,"end":700.724,"text":"可能就是我們未來金融業我們要特別透過這個案例呢告訴他們要特別的強化在我剛才要跟委員特別強調我們在金管這個這部分有兩個重點一個是資安一個是只要任何碰觸到客戶資料的部分我們都會"},{"start":701.297,"end":722.862,"text":"做更嚴格的管理 謝謝好 最後本席要建議這個院長那就是喔當我來跟業者詢問的時候他會提到的是他們其實是找不到合適的廠商來做合作那我們都知道台灣是IT大國 科技大國如果一個信用卡的系統又或者是壽險的系統當我們找不到國內MIT的廠商的時候當然國外的"},{"start":728.423,"end":750.754,"text":"其他非中國的國家非紅色供應鏈如果有價格的問題的時候是不是也可以請數位部應該來做一個整合我相信台灣應該做得出來信用卡等所謂資訊相關需要的系統或者是受險所謂保障客戶的這種系統是不是是應該的我們會請跨部會來互相的協助當"},{"start":752.435,"end":769.666,"text":"金融單位有這樣的需求的時候我也請主委來協調跨部會來協助提供必要的資源廠商這樣才能確保我們的資通安的安全好 那因為時間有限我想要跳到我的最後一張PTT那就是我們知道現在有許多的這些公民團體在發起"},{"start":771.787,"end":780.103,"text":"他們屬於自己的罷免權但是從二階的罷免開始其實從一階開始之後不斷地陸續有出現騷擾的行為"},{"start":784.868,"end":805.101,"text":"從3月17號我開始整理這樣一系列一直到去年其實要不就是支持者打人說我是中國人我來鬧場甚至於有志工在路上發禪單就被揮拳然後被當頭K頭然後甚至於是有抄著中國口音的人來鬧場"},{"start":807.54,"end":836.339,"text":"我覺得這是蠻諷刺的啦就是中國連自己的總統都選不出來但是呢卻在台灣滋事那到底他是真的中國人還是台灣人假扮中國人這個恐怕是要由相關的執法單位來做說明但是我要請院長回應的就是台灣是一個自由民主而且受到法律保障的國家雖然國民黨昨天他們在所謂發起"},{"start":837.92,"end":857.511,"text":"公投罷免提案的時候他說要反廢死要還命於民啊但是我們剛剛羅烈看到的這些都是國民黨的支持者我是蠻想呼籲國民黨還命於民之前要不要先還安全於人民難道說台灣民眾自發性的發起他們要"},{"start":858.391,"end":883.072,"text":"展現他們的罷免權卻要被國民黨的支持者來痛打又或者是自稱中國人在台灣這片土地來毆打我們的台灣民眾嗎我覺得這個部分講到這裡我非常的憤怒我也認為院長應該要做一些說明好 政府的責任在保障每一位國民合法行使他國民的參政權利"},{"start":884.4,"end":898.716,"text":"政府的責任也在保障每一場合法的活動所有到場的人人身安全如果有這種滋擾的事件那麼要求我們的警政單位檢調單位一定要負起責任部長在這裡請部長來說明"},{"start":899.377,"end":926.632,"text":"是非常謝謝委員的關心我們已經三令五申包括警政署對於有關安全的部分一定要馬上處理那我們也鼓勵各種罷免的活動合法罷免活動的志工如果碰到這樣狀況的話能夠拍照或是錄音錄影然後到現地的派出所馬上報案那我們依照相關的規定馬上來辦理確保在所有的公民活動上面的安全好謝謝辛苦了"},{"start":927.841,"end":935.011,"text":"好 謝謝林楚瑩委員咨詢 謝謝卓院長 各部會首長的備詢接下來我們請登記第32號"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":224,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（9時48分）謝謝主席。主席，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：院長早，院長辛苦了。本席今天要針對國家安全的議題來跟您請問。我們知道昨天有一個非常重要的國際論壇舉行，也就是玉山論壇。在玉山論壇當中，我們看到許多民主友邦都提出，由於現在全球受到威權國家進逼，所以民主陣線應該更要站在一起。昨天AIT處長谷立言特別提到，賴總統就打擊中國長期以來的間諜和影響力行動所提出之倡議，將使美國跟臺灣可以有機會進一步合作。這樣的說法剛好契合日前賴清德總統特別定調中國就是所謂的敵對勢力！且中國對於臺灣的威脅，不論是統戰或是國安的方方面面，也具體點出包括主權威脅、間諜行動，還有透過交流以及認知作戰等等。滿可惜的是，昨天最主要的在野黨國民黨竟然說，賴總統將中國定位為敵對勢力讓人民陷於危險之中，因此他們要發動反戒嚴公投！請問院長你怎麼看？"],["卓院長榮泰：自助、人助，也會得到天助，這個就是完全展示我們對於防衛自己的決心、負責跟我們的信心。當很多友邦或友盟國家考慮到要維持印太地區、臺海和平穩定的時候，臺灣當然是一個最關鍵的角色跟地位，這種戰略地位我們自己要認清楚。也因為這樣，我們更要珍惜我們在這邊所做的各種努力。至於外交的工作，部長做得非常好，做得非常辛苦，成就也一直展現出來，我請部長說明一下現在外交對我們的協助。"],["林委員楚茵：好，在部長回答之前我想先問院長，你認為臺灣現在戒嚴了嗎？需要反戒嚴公投嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛說過，在國內的政黨，只有中國國民黨有戒嚴的經驗，或許只有它不知道戒嚴的痛苦，目前的臺灣沒有任何戒嚴的時空跟條件，所以我說它是在一個黑暗的房間裡面找一隻不存在的黑貓。"],["林委員楚茵：所以說，臺灣如果有戒嚴，哪裡還會有公投呢，我認為這個完全是邏輯錯亂、本末倒置。","再來，這個假日民眾看到我們的卓院長揮出光劍，希望帶臺灣持續向前。我先來問個輕鬆的話題，其實滿多網友都在問：光劍哪裡來的？也有在野黨說：預算都刪光了，居然還有光劍可以買！院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：還是有社會正義人士願意把他專屬的光劍借給我們用，謝謝這位馬可多大師。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以是有大師出借、專業人士出借。"],["卓院長榮泰：他希望我們拿著光劍是自由與我們同在、民主與我們同在。"],["林委員楚茵：好，正義的原力會與臺灣同在，我覺得這個口號「國家要安全、臺灣要向前」真的非常重要。本席特別整理了現在中國滲透的樣態，在退將方面，他們吸引退將組「親中政黨」；在國軍方面，透過地下錢莊吸引國軍作訊息的交換甚至洩密；在媒體方面，現在有所謂的在地協力者協助中國的融媒體來做唱和；在產業方面，現在媒體也報導，在華碩工會裡有中配在裡面宣揚統戰，甚至連武統都在所不惜；至於僑界方面，最新的訊息，媒體也報導了，統戰勢力已經滲透海外僑社參與中國組織活動，我昨天質詢徐佳青委員長的時候也特別提到，在海外，現在連雙十國慶中國也要滲透，以結合抗戰勝利80周年提出荒謬的言論；另外，金融界也有所謂科技的滲透。所以我想問一下，面對這種全方位的滲透，總統也宣示要做正面因應的時候，行政院有跨部會的因應嗎？除了國安會議以外。"],["卓院長榮泰：有，當時開會的時候我就說，我們會要求相關的所有部會一定要列專案來執行，而且我會要求定期考核、限期完成，所以我們在這個禮拜就會開始相關作業，我希望在一定的時間內，針對17項的內容，有關的各部會都要訂定出未來執行的計畫，而且能夠看到執行的時間。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝院長非常明確的答復，就是我們整個內閣是光劍一出，要對所謂中國的滲透必須有所作為。","其實我剛剛最後一個提到金融面的問題，我不知道院長是不是知道前一陣子媒體特別報導了一則新聞，中國財政部先持股進入國家中小企業發展基金有限公司，這個國家是中國財政部、中國這個國家，然後再往下持股到深圳國中小企業發展私募股權投資基金，然後再往下持股一間公司，這間公司雖然號稱是新加坡公司，然後來臺灣開子公司。我們知道資安即國安，金融的安全更為重要，臺灣業者如果讓這間新加坡公司來承接所謂信用卡核心關鍵技術的系統，會不會變成中國滲透進入臺灣的一個方法，甚至成為一個樣板，我不知道院長知不知道這樣的個案案例？"],["卓院長榮泰：細節請彭主委來說明。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。我想剛剛提到的，其實我們在金融監理上，對於任何，比如說我們金融機構委外，我們是不限國家地區，我們是全面的有要求他們必須針對這些資通安全系統有一些規範，特別是高風險地區更是要求他們要做。像這件事情發生以後，我們也全面的去了解國內金融機構相關的一些執行，我們也加強金融機構的安全控管，希望他們能夠持續地把這些強化。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以現在來自新加坡、號稱是新加坡公司，但是背後有中資影子的公司，本來要進入臺灣的信用卡系統，目前還會持續進入嗎？還是其實金管會已經做了必要的措施？"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員說明一下，其實一知悉這件事情，我們就立刻請它一定務必要清查背後的情況，而且他們的這個系統根本沒有上線。我們的要求是有沒有資安風險不是自己說了算，必須找第三方公證，他們也做出這樣的查核，發現這個系統並沒有相關的後門的安全疑慮，因為這個系統還沒有上線，所以這部分應該是被阻卻了。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這家公司背後的關係、系統，經濟部已經有相當的了解，我請部長說明。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我們請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，對於新加坡商類似認和科技這些是不是陸資公司，我經濟部經過調查以後，確定新加坡商認和科技公司是具有陸資控制力的，確實為陸資公司，所以我們將依兩岸條例第九十三條之一的規定，處以新臺幣217萬元的罰鍰。"],["林委員楚茵：所以言下之意，確實背後是有中資的影子在裡面。我們都知道臺灣金融是高度監理，這樣的一間公司，它本身的合作夥伴就統統是來自於中國，當它來自於中國的時候，很可能臺灣就是它下一塊想要前進的部分，所以在金融如何避免所謂的非紅供應鏈？我們知道我們現在在基礎建設、國防安全的部分都已經開始強調要去除紅色供應鏈，但是在金融系統裡面，本席特別找到在2019年也發生過壽險的核心系統採用到中國相關的技術跟系統，所以這個部分並不是一個偶發事件，其實涉及整體金融國安部分。因此本席就要請問，不論是郭部長或是彭主委，在金融系統上面、在IT防範上面，如何避免紅色供應鏈的入侵？現在有個方法嗎？比如像這次的案子，如果它在申請的時候是以設立公司，設立公司可能就不一定會經過投審會的相關審查，而且當時業者也說有勘查這間認和科技，該公司並沒有在我們所謂的紅色供應商裡面，所以就認為它是安全的。我們既然發現了這個問題，想請問部長或是主委，有沒有一個方式能夠保障臺灣金融系統的安全？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，跟委員說明，其實在過去我們是不限國家地區，本來就訂定有金融機構資通系統與服務供應鏈風險管理規範，而且我們也會蒐集相關案例，特別是對於這些高風險，我們會採取相關的動作。以這一次為例，我覺得他們剛開始的警覺性確實需要被強化，這件事情從表面上看，可能未來金融業我們要透過這個案例來告訴他們要特別的強化。我要跟委員特別強調，金管部分有兩個重點，一個是資安，一個是只要任何碰觸到客戶資料的部分，我們都會做更嚴格的管理。謝謝。"],["林委員楚茵：最後本席要建議院長，就是當我跟業者做詢問的時候，它會提到的是，他們其實是找不到合適的廠商來合作，我們都知道臺灣是IT大國、科技大國，如果一個信用卡的系統，又或者是壽險的系統，當我們找不到國內MIT的廠商的時候，當然國外的其他非中國的國家、非紅色供應鏈，如果有價格的問題的時候，是不是也可以請數位部應該來做一個整合？我相信臺灣應該做得出來信用卡需要的資訊相關系統或者是壽險所謂保障客戶的這種系統，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：是應該的，我們會請跨部會互相協助，當金融單位有此需求的時候，我會請主委來協調、跨部會來協助，提供必要的支援廠商，這樣才能確保我們的資通安全。"],["林委員楚茵：好。因為時間有限，我想要跳到我的最後一張PPT。我們知道現在有許多公民團體在發起屬於自己的罷免權，但是從二階的罷免開始，其實從一階開始之後，不斷地陸續有出現騷擾的行為。根據我所整理的，從去年開始一直到3月17號這樣一系列，要不就是支持者打人，說「我是中國人，我來鬧場」；甚至於有志工在路上發傳單就被揮拳，被當場K頭；甚至有操著中國口音的人來鬧場。我覺得這是蠻諷刺的，中國人連自己的總統都選不出來，但是卻在臺灣滋事。到底他是真的中國人，還是臺灣人假扮中國人，這個恐怕要由相關的執法單位來做說明。但是我要請院長回應的就是，臺灣是一個自由、民主，而且受到法律保障的國家，雖然國民黨昨天在發起所謂公投提案的時候說要反廢死，要「還命於民」，但是我們剛剛看到羅列的這些都是國民黨的支持者，我是蠻想呼籲國民黨在還命於民之前，要不要先還安全於人民？難道說臺灣民眾自發性的發起，他們要展現他們的罷免權，卻要被國民黨的支持者來痛打，又或者是自稱中國人在臺灣這片土地來毆打我們的臺灣民眾嗎？我覺得這個部分，講到這裡我非常的憤怒，我也認為院長應該要做一些說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。政府的責任在於保障每一位國民合法行使他國民的參政權利，政府的責任也在保障每一場合法的活動，所有到場者的人身安全，如果有滋擾的事件，那麼要要求我們的警政單位、檢調單位一定要負起責任。部長在這裡，請部長來說明。"],["劉部長世芳：是。非常謝謝委員的關心，我們已經三令五申，包括警政署，對於有關安全的部分，一定要馬上處理。我們也鼓勵各種合法罷免活動的志工，如果有碰到這種狀況的話，能夠拍照或是錄音錄影，然後馬上到現地的派出所報案，我們依照相關的規定馬上來辦理，確保在所有公民活動上面的安全。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第32號黃健豪委員，請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","羅美玲","張嘉郡","林楚茵","黃健豪","林岱樺","邱鎮軍","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","廖先翔","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","郭國文","謝龍介","沈伯洋","張智倫","陳雪生"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2025-03-18"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00004","1142601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1142601_00004"}}}