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\"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"鑄\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 404.774, \"end\": 404.854, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 404.854, \"end\": 404.874, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 409.117, \"end\": 437.215, \"text\": \"為什麼衛福部都沒有辦法我是不是可以說明一下現在我們跟衛福部其實針對這個議題討論的非常多那最新的一個共識而且也經過諾能的座談裡面討論的就是未來只要是有鮮乳標章產銷履歷跟CAS的國產乳才能夠標鮮乳國產的鮮乳然後其他的部分包括進口的我們\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 409.117, \"end\": 409.898, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 409.898, \"end\": 410.018, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 410.018, \"end\": 410.138, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 410.138, \"end\": 410.258, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 410.258, \"end\": 410.358, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 410.358, \"end\": 410.758, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 410.758, \"end\": 412.84, \"score\": 0.653}, {\"word\": 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428.789, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 428.789, \"end\": 430.23, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"乳\", \"start\": 430.23, \"end\": 430.53, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 430.53, \"end\": 430.691, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 430.691, \"end\": 432.252, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"鮮\"}, {\"word\": \"乳\", \"start\": 432.252, \"end\": 433.012, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 433.012, \"end\": 433.352, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"鮮\"}, {\"word\": \"乳\", \"start\": 433.352, \"end\": 433.993, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 433.993, \"end\": 434.033, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 434.033, \"end\": 434.933, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 434.933, \"end\": 435.073, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 435.073, \"end\": 435.213, \"score\": 0.995}, 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\"國內生產的牛乳而且是要取得我們的證明標章鮮乳證明標章產銷履歷或是CS的那這三個標章是為了讓我們的國內的牛乳本身具有產品的差異化那透過這樣的產品差異化才能夠讓我們的國產牛乳在市面上比較有大的競爭力\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 457.385, \"end\": 457.545, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 457.545, \"end\": 458.126, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"牛\", \"start\": 458.126, \"end\": 458.426, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"乳\", \"start\": 458.426, \"end\": 458.667, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 458.667, \"end\": 458.867, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 458.867, \"end\": 459.107, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 459.107, \"end\": 459.247, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 459.247, \"end\": 459.527, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 459.527, \"end\": 459.848, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 459.848, \"end\": 460.128, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 460.128, \"end\": 460.468, \"score\": 0.94}, 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593.594, \"text\": \"它可以藉由這樣子一個轉變變成第一個可穿的布料或者是目前作為我們電動車車上的皮料\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 579.514, \"end\": 579.734, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 579.734, \"end\": 580.175, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 580.175, \"end\": 580.696, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"藉\", \"start\": 580.696, \"end\": 581.056, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 581.056, \"end\": 581.997, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 581.997, \"end\": 582.218, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 582.218, \"end\": 584.181, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 584.181, \"end\": 584.862, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 584.862, \"end\": 585.002, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 585.002, \"end\": 585.563, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 585.563, \"end\": 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1237.66, \"end\": 1238.04, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 1238.04, \"end\": 1238.24, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"半\", \"start\": 1238.24, \"end\": 1238.4, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1238.4, \"end\": 1239.201, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1239.201, \"end\": 1239.441, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1239.441, \"end\": 1239.701, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 1239.701, \"end\": 1239.941, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1239.941, \"end\": 1240.262, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"找\", \"start\": 1240.262, \"end\": 1240.442, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1240.442, \"end\": 1240.462, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"們\"}]}, {\"start\": 1240.762, \"end\": 1267.52, \"text\": \"那是不是因為在美國的廠那到底有沒有辦法就是說那麼快的生產還是他建廠的過程就會有問題跟委員報告就我個人專業的這個經驗來講蓋一座廠這麼先進的一座廠如果沒有經驗去蓋那麼他肯定要花三年的時間\", \"words\": [{\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1250.929, \"end\": 1251.329, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 1251.329, \"end\": 1251.929, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1251.929, \"end\": 1253.01, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1253.01, \"end\": 1254.071, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 1254.071, \"end\": 1254.391, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1254.391, \"end\": 1254.931, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 1254.931, \"end\": 1255.412, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1255.412, \"end\": 1255.612, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1255.612, \"end\": 1256.032, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 1256.032, \"end\": 1256.973, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1256.973, \"end\": 1259.694, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"驗\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1264.197, \"end\": 1265.618, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"蓋\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1265.618, \"end\": 1265.919, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1265.919, \"end\": 1266.139, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"肯\", \"start\": 1266.139, \"end\": 1266.399, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 1266.399, \"end\": 1266.579, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1266.579, \"end\": 1266.799, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"花\", \"start\": 1266.799, \"end\": 1267.019, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 1267.019, \"end\": 1267.259, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 1267.259, \"end\": 1267.5, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1267.5, \"end\": 1267.52, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}]}, {\"start\": 1269.158, \"end\": 1294.745, \"text\": \"那美國也沒有台灣建廠的這樣的一個過去的經驗所以他剛開始蓋第一個廠就像這個魏董事長講的他吃盡苦頭我相信他蓋第二個廠可能會有一些improve不過還是沒有辦法借重台灣的經驗的話所以他才講說那我可能要一千個人過去來協助他順利所以我們可以看得出來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1269.158, \"end\": 1269.678, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 1269.678, \"end\": 1270.118, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 1270.118, \"end\": 1270.238, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 1270.238, \"end\": 1270.378, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1270.378, \"end\": 1270.538, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 1270.538, \"end\": 1270.958, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 1270.958, \"end\": 1271.399, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1271.399, \"end\": 1272.419, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1272.419, \"end\": 1272.559, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1272.559, \"end\": 1273.139, \"score\": 0.931}, 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{\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 1291.964, \"end\": 1292.204, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1292.204, \"end\": 1292.984, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"順\"}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 1292.984, \"end\": 1293.684, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1293.684, \"end\": 1293.824, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1293.824, \"end\": 1293.925, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1293.925, \"end\": 1294.205, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1294.205, \"end\": 1294.305, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1294.305, \"end\": 1294.425, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 1294.425, \"end\": 1294.585, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 1294.585, \"end\": 1294.725, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 1294.725, \"end\": 1294.745, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 1295.865, \"end\": 1310.679, \"text\": 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\"end\": 1465.64, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 1465.64, \"end\": 1465.94, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1465.94, \"end\": 1466.3, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 1466.3, \"end\": 1466.641, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1466.641, \"end\": 1466.921, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1466.921, \"end\": 1467.101, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 1467.101, \"end\": 1467.501, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1467.501, \"end\": 1468.162, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 1468.162, \"end\": 1468.802, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1468.802, \"end\": 1469.022, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1469.022, \"end\": 1469.342, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 1469.342, \"end\": 1469.763, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1469.763, \"end\": 1469.883, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 1469.883, \"end\": 1470.043, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 1470.043, \"end\": 1470.323, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 1470.323, \"end\": 1470.503, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"製\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 1470.503, \"end\": 1470.523, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 1471.724, \"end\": 1489.933, \"text\": \"但是供應的方法不一定只有在當地製造供應的方法也可能在台灣製造然後透過Logistics運送快速的運送送到滿足客戶的需求這個部分在我們過去的經驗上面都看到這樣的一個結果所以跟委員報告就是說比較專業的報告的話\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 1471.724, \"end\": 1472.064, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1472.064, \"end\": 1472.404, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 1472.404, \"end\": 1472.745, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1472.745, \"end\": 1472.885, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 1472.885, \"end\": 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\"end\": 1838.705, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1838.705, \"end\": 1838.825, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 1838.825, \"end\": 1838.845, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"樓\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,953 --> 00:00:10,918\n謝謝院長我想要請卓院長農業部長還有環境部長麻煩請卓院長農業部環境部備選\n\n2\n00:00:26,517 --> 00:00:35,623\n我想要了解一下其實我知道說我們減碳一直是我們政府的目標但是\n\n3\n00:00:36,874 --> 00:00:54,473\n我們看到了對於農民有幫助的在減碳部分因為現在有非常多的企業投入了這樣子SDGs以及我們ESG相關的這樣子的一個發展\n\n4\n00:00:56,015 --> 00:01:11,265\n這都跟農業有絕對的相關性我也去看了我們彰化縣農業非常多有志於發展農業科技以及結合綠電以及永續發展的農資農財這樣子相關的發展\n\n5\n00:01:15,908 --> 00:01:39,858\n但是我發現了一個非常奇怪的就是當我們的農業要來減碳的時候他一定要有減碳的方法學那我想要請問的是我們彭部長我們目前環境部對於減碳的方法學審理到底需要多久的時間\n\n6\n00:01:40,994 --> 00:01:55,866\n保護委員過去的確是比較久但是我們現在過去多久過去可能都要一兩年因為過去比較久但是現在大概我們通過了五個過去多久你說過去我不知清楚但是我們過去這幾個月大概通過了四個方法學\n\n7\n00:01:56,887 --> 00:02:10,988\n包括譬如說森林的管理還有這種竹林還有各種的育苗的處理其實已經有五個方法學會那未來呢未來目前譬如說海洋的海藻或是紅樹林也正在申請當中\n\n8\n00:02:12,113 --> 00:02:27,824\n因為我覺得這個減碳的方法學對於農民是非常重要的尤其是小農過去我在質詢農委會的時候我們就怎麼樣子把這些方法學因為小農他沒有辦法\n\n9\n00:02:28,804 --> 00:02:52,154\n去自己去提出申請那一定是農委會等相關的協助我們整個小農對於整個企業的方法學一定要讓他們有一個可以共同遵循的方向但是在方法學的審理上面即便這個方法學是在農業部這邊是不是\n\n10\n00:02:54,736 --> 00:03:12,307\n我跟委員報告我們農業部本身所擬定的現在目前有五個方法學系送到環境部那環境部本身過往是比較慢但是這一年多來這將近一年來其實他們審理的速度大概平均大概是六個月到八個月就可以出來\n\n11\n00:03:12,907 --> 00:03:33,277\n那最近的比較重要委員所關切的特別是跟跟作有關的土壤的方法學那現在也已經進到環境部的第二次審查那我們預計審查過的過程裡面有一些需修正的那如果過了以後對於我們農業經營上面的的這些簡單的作為就會很有幫助\n\n12\n00:03:34,670 --> 00:04:02,592\n對如果沒有減碳的這個方法學的時候農民怎麼利用減碳去得到就是說除了種植農作物以外的這樣子就是說國際在追求減碳的這個過程當中他們額外的收入那我們知道說目前農民的數量減少但是有青農的加入我們希望青農在加入以後\n\n13\n00:04:03,212 --> 00:04:16,731\n可以藉由這種對於農業新興的獲利的方式來協助他們除了在耕種以外能夠藉由碳費能夠得到一筆收入這是我們希望能夠帶來未來\n\n14\n00:04:18,893 --> 00:04:37,432\n農業可以永續發展以及結合現在企業要投入永續農業以及ESG相關的作為的時候如果環境部你們的方法學沒有提出的話你們沒有加速審理的話你們都還在這裡局部不前的話那這樣子未來我們農業怎麼發展是不是\n\n15\n00:04:39,634 --> 00:04:58,895\n包委員這個是我們非常重視的但是因為我們台灣過去對於農業的方法學是比較陌生的但是現在有在加快但是我也跟委員報告因為我們目前的碳費的價格是只有300塊那其實在這個市場上如果農民來做這個東西其實現在的價值性不高\n\n16\n00:04:59,375 --> 00:05:24,593\n那我們未來其實更重要的一環是要推動總量管制的排放交易如果明年下半年我們可以上路的話農民的誘因因為我們台灣的土地相對的農民的土地都比較小所以他要做整個碳匯的價值額外的收入的話其實是成本跟收入不成比例的所以未來我們也會擴大跟農民的再溝通希望能夠來幫助農民在減碳的部分能夠獲得不一樣的收益\n\n17\n00:05:25,146 --> 00:05:38,805\n我在這邊跟委員補充就是個別農戶因為他土地面積小就算他得到的碳費本身的減碳的價值是非常低的所以我們已經同步針對這個個體小農去做集結變成集團栽培的經營組去做處理的話\n\n18\n00:05:41,969 --> 00:06:08,488\n那樣子他比較得到比較大的量可以跟ESG做結合在第一個部分第二個部分就是委員所關切的其實在彰化有很多葡萄農這些枝條的部分那現在我們農業部也推動了剩餘資源的循環在利用特別是將這些枝條剪下來以後經過粉碎以後變成生殖燃料的生殖燃料棒那這個生殖燃料棒的部分也可以當作一個能源的一個替代\n\n19\n00:06:09,804 --> 00:06:17,072\n那我還想要請,謝謝彭部長,我想要請衛福部的邱部長。麻煩請衛福部備詢。\n\n20\n00:06:20,875 --> 00:06:44,874\n農業部我們陳部長請等一下我想請問一下就是對於紐西蘭的牛乳進口這個部分其實糯農還是很希望說我們可以維持就是說就是在鮮乳的部分我們希望紐西蘭進口的鮮乳能夠不要加上長效鮮乳這個部分以長效乳來鑄成那\n\n21\n00:06:49,117 --> 00:07:17,215\n為什麼衛福部都沒有辦法我是不是可以說明一下現在我們跟衛福部其實針對這個議題討論的非常多那最新的一個共識而且也經過諾能的座談裡面討論的就是未來只要是有鮮乳標章產銷履歷跟CAS的國產乳才能夠標鮮乳國產的鮮乳然後其他的部分包括進口的我們\n\n22\n00:07:18,055 --> 00:07:35,917\n修正了相關的經濟部的一個標準局的相關的規範未來的牛乳的話只能分為牛乳、羊乳不能再加先制因為先制本身是一個形容詞它很難去界定說它是幾天以下才叫做先所以未來只有國內生產的牛乳\n\n23\n00:07:37,385 --> 00:07:56,122\n國內生產的牛乳而且是要取得我們的證明標章鮮乳證明標章產銷履歷或是CS的那這三個標章是為了讓我們的國內的牛乳本身具有產品的差異化那透過這樣的產品差異化才能夠讓我們的國產牛乳在市面上比較有大的競爭力\n\n24\n00:07:57,093 --> 00:08:11,870\n那所以未來紐西蘭或其他國家進口的就不能夠加上鮮嗎?對,根據相關的規定就只能叫做牛奶所以就不會加上鮮乳,就是會排解我們目前就是國內弱農的疑慮是不是?\n\n25\n00:08:12,791 --> 00:08:28,741\n我希望說我們相關的作業能夠加速可以嗎因為今年度是因為就是紐西蘭的牛乳他生產並不多那進口的數量也不多那未來如果進口的數量多的話那恐怕會影響國內酪農的相關的生產\n\n26\n00:08:30,862 --> 00:08:46,345\n我跟你們提供一個數據,其實紐西蘭進口本身以去年來講是一萬三千多噸那一萬三千多噸裡面有將近一萬噸是薄酒爐的系統其實它紐西蘭本身它鮮乳的進口量只佔它整個進口量的百分之三十\n\n27\n00:08:47,652 --> 00:09:03,104\n好那那個邱部長再麻煩你把這個部分就是相關的法律能夠協助好不好好是的好謝謝那我再想要請問一下就是我們經濟部的郭部長農業部衛生部請回\n\n28\n00:09:15,184 --> 00:09:38,934\n我剛才那個陳部長他提到了就是農業的減肥其實我昨天排了一個到設計研究院也就是你經濟部所屬的這樣子一個財團法人那我們去看了就是裡面他已經有就是設計好的機台已經把果皮或者是果渣等等\n\n29\n00:09:39,514 --> 00:09:53,594\n它可以藉由這樣子一個轉變變成第一個可穿的布料或者是目前作為我們電動車車上的皮料\n\n30\n00:09:56,678 --> 00:10:16,289\n那以這樣子的一個研究以及讓我們的循環經濟能夠成為可實現的這樣子的一個方法,那我想要請問一下我們經濟部以及我們行政院是不是應該要大力的支持?\n\n31\n00:10:17,287 --> 00:10:43,575\n是的我們經濟部是有支持我們有提供研發投資抵減抵減率大概15%各個產業都可以來申請試用我想請問的是因為其實設計本身是一個產業目前產品的設計以及相關的這是不是也請我們財政部的\n\n32\n00:10:45,553 --> 00:10:58,963\n財政部貝雪報告委員我想設計業者從事據一定創新程度的創作這些相關研發的支出也可以申請那麼在修訂設備投資抵檢的子辦法時亦會將設計業所需的AI軟硬體設備或者技術這個抵檢率有5%納入評估\n\n33\n00:11:10,450 --> 00:11:25,111\n我是說對於品牌的設計以及對於我們產品製程的相關設計尤其是對於像這樣子農費的再循環利用變成工業的產品的\n\n34\n00:11:26,833 --> 00:11:46,378\n相關製程的這樣子的一個研發設計那是不是我們不用透過修法以執法的修訂那就可以把他們納入就是企業的這個投資底檢的這個項目裡面那這樣子郭部長他是大力的支持那莊部長呢\n\n35\n00:11:47,948 --> 00:12:01,146\n我想在目前來說相關的法律裡面對原發的支出都已經有投資抵減那在執法規裡面只要在法律的這個法律的上位之下都可以訂定相關的一些細節項目\n\n36\n00:12:02,908 --> 00:12:19,744\n因為我們看到了目前台灣他希望能走出自己的品牌我們希望利用自己的產品在世界打出我們自己的品牌我們當然除了半導體以外我們還有非常重要的傳產\n\n37\n00:12:20,845 --> 00:12:35,451\n那重要的傳產裡面他們沒有透過這樣子的產品的設計的話他們沒有辦法能夠在國際有自由品牌我想要請問郭部長你知道吧你的過去你的次長\n\n38\n00:12:36,731 --> 00:13:02,237\n連錦章市長他現在就在設計研究院裡面當董事長他對於產業界非常熟悉所以他可以把產業界的意見以及我們設計團隊的意見共同結合起來對於台灣的這樣子設計產業的相關的這個共同研發的動力是非常大的\n\n39\n00:13:02,617 --> 00:13:11,688\n所以我們經濟部絕對不能夠放棄這樣子的一個項目我們一定要繼續的來培植我們的設計產業我們過去我們有金馬獎\n\n40\n00:13:18,897 --> 00:13:22,300\n然後呢現在我們過去我們的戲劇在國際都獲得非常好的成績現在我們的設計也有經典獎我們的設計跟世界上的設計的大獎\n\n41\n00:13:35,370 --> 00:14:02,857\n共同都有互相的合作那未來如果可以把台灣產品的設計力能夠展現出來的時候那是不是對於未來台灣不管是在高科技產業或者是在傳產裡面都有相關的協助那現在我們是不是能獲得我們郭部長以及莊部長共同的支持\n\n42\n00:14:04,154 --> 00:14:25,585\n報告委員,我們支持設計發展,所以我們編列的還不錯的預算。跟委員報告,我們藉由台灣設計研究院,整合國內的設計相關產業協會,共同來推動。每一年我們投入的經費大概有六億元。\n\n43\n00:14:26,685 --> 00:14:34,575\n今年大概114年是6.03億元,主要協助產業設計創新,提高產品的附加價值,藉由補助、輔導措施,協助產業的商品或服務設計價值,以提高產品的附加價值。\n\n44\n00:14:45,749 --> 00:15:08,147\n所以委員所垂詢的我們更推動公共服務的設計改善也推動台灣設計國際的推廣因為主要我們希望把台灣能夠重新的定位重新設計台灣是一個團隊的產業我們把它整合成團隊往外服務世界的公民\n\n45\n00:15:09,039 --> 00:15:27,155\n六億的預算佔其實我們三兆的總預算裡面非常小的一部分但是其實它發揮了非常大的一個影響力因為它涉及的層面不只我們的公共建設還有公共的政策還有我們的產業面那當然了\n\n46\n00:15:27,535 --> 00:15:53,746\n今年度的台灣設計展即將在10月10號到26號在彰化縣舉辦我們也希望行政院跟我們經濟部可以大力的協助好不好是的好謝謝莊部長那我再請教一下我們的郭部長跟我們國發會的我們的劉主委劉主委麻煩請國發會備選\n\n47\n00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:32,710\n劉主委國務長覺得那個台積電都不是他的指控師不過你國發會對於台積電有投資你也是他的董事你對他的了解應該很大吧應該還可以啦還可以啊那個我想請問現在台積電即將赴美\n\n48\n00:16:33,806 --> 00:16:59,696\n再投資三座,還是五座?六座總共呢?總共六座,再加三座嘛總共六座嘛還有兩個Covas廠那請問,如果未來有六加二座,就是八座在美國那相關的零組件會不會都過去?\n\n49\n00:17:00,786 --> 00:17:23,279\n基本上以我個人的立場我希望過去的原因是他有需求如果這個需求被別的國家的人拿走對我們國內的產業是不利的那我們希望讓台灣的產業立足台灣放眼全球我們希望攻城略地讓他們在美國也可以發展進而奪取美國的半導體市場\n\n50\n00:17:24,868 --> 00:17:39,476\n所以你希望其他的供應商都過去嗎我也跟委員報告一下我們在半導體的化學材料已經做到純度世界第一所以現在其實美國的大廠也發現台灣的產品的優良也開始跟台灣買\n\n51\n00:17:40,871 --> 00:18:05,080\n在沒有台積電的情況下已經有兩家廠商已經到了美國去設廠賣給Intel所以我們希望幫助台灣的產業鏈能夠再放遠全球尤其在兩個部分第一個是材料的部分第二個是設備的部分這是我們目前的短板我們希望讓它進入全球然後放大整個產業的發展這是我們供應鏈韌性的一環但是國內非常多的業者\n\n52\n00:18:07,870 --> 00:18:23,369\n會擔心的是如果我們全部都移到美國去了那台灣剩下什麼我們剩下關鍵技術跟最新的製程以及我們的研發能力因為我們會把它留下來\n\n53\n00:18:24,672 --> 00:18:39,706\n報告委員不是台灣的產業移到美國去不是我們是工程略進我們是護國神山的周遭我們護國神山都移到美國去了護國神山的周遭也有一些是我們最先進的技術如果只有護國神山去\n\n54\n00:18:40,186 --> 00:19:00,920\n我們的技術沒有去他在那邊重新開發會造成回頭跟我們這裡的相關產業變成競爭所以主委的意思是護國神山去我們相關配合的供應鏈產商也要去保持我們永遠在護國神山以及旁邊隨時供應鏈各種供應鏈上的領先地位到底去多少\n\n55\n00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:29,853\n這個我要通過何人的評估這個去多少是民間自己的意志我們現在沒辦法評估等他到經濟部申請的時候我們就會很清楚那去了一部分好了那留在台灣的是最關鍵的技術你能確保他會持續的壯大嗎我們要要求所有的廠商保持台灣關鍵領先的地位保持台灣關鍵技術的地位劉主委\n\n56\n00:19:31,904 --> 00:19:53,575\n廠商要壯大一定要有市場我說台積電在台灣會繼續壯大嗎?這個葦哲嘉董事長在總統府的記者會講得很清楚在台灣的投資沒有改變他說他缺電跟缺水11個廠沒有改變這他有講得很清楚報告委員這個是這樣子就是說到美國去他生產的不是最先進的\n\n57\n00:19:54,482 --> 00:20:10,358\n他希望是最先進的但是台積電他這個公司來講他不可能沒有把握的東西就在那邊生產所以他需要台灣的供應鏈這個也就是說我們總統最近在呼籲的希望把半導體這個供應鏈能夠大家\n\n58\n00:20:15,083 --> 00:20:40,462\n有一個聯盟的倡議所以我們現在經濟部就是在幫助台灣的廠商然後再結合國內外的所有半導體供應鏈的廠商能夠在台灣做最先進的研發當研發都落在台灣的時候我相信不管在不一定是在美國全球各地要發展半導體的他一定要來找我們\n\n59\n00:20:40,762 --> 00:21:07,520\n那是不是因為在美國的廠那到底有沒有辦法就是說那麼快的生產還是他建廠的過程就會有問題跟委員報告就我個人專業的這個經驗來講蓋一座廠這麼先進的一座廠如果沒有經驗去蓋那麼他肯定要花三年的時間\n\n60\n00:21:09,158 --> 00:21:34,745\n那美國也沒有台灣建廠的這樣的一個過去的經驗所以他剛開始蓋第一個廠就像這個魏董事長講的他吃盡苦頭我相信他蓋第二個廠可能會有一些improve不過還是沒有辦法借重台灣的經驗的話所以他才講說那我可能要一千個人過去來協助他順利所以我們可以看得出來\n\n61\n00:21:35,865 --> 00:21:50,679\n也就是說他可能四年內他怎麼樣加快速度但是受限於當地的建築開發廠商或者是這些建築廠商是不是有辦法在四年內蓋出來這些廠\n\n62\n00:21:54,022 --> 00:22:18,574\n這個是不是那麼容易可以做得到的一件事情那如果我們現在就是連台積電他這樣子的就是一個已經在那裡有廠的公司他都沒有辦法有就是說能夠按照他預期的去蓋廠那未來我們如果有更多的供應鏈過去的時候那我們的廠商是不是\n\n63\n00:22:19,534 --> 00:22:40,427\n所以供應鏈它會有選擇,以現在就是說我不一定要在美國生產,我在台灣製造完了以後,然後送到美國去,然後做最後一個製程,最後一個製程很重要,就是說半導體它在捷徑的環境裡面去製造,所以我相信很多的廠商會把LastMile放在那裡做Cleaning,\n\n64\n00:22:41,067 --> 00:22:56,465\n所有的Cleaning都是包括Components包括所有的Spareparts包括他穿上Operator所穿的這個無塵衣無塵帽無塵鞋子這一些東西都是需要Cleaning我相信Cleaning的廠商一定會過去\n\n65\n00:22:57,796 --> 00:23:11,387\n但是其他的因為任何一個供應鏈的廠商他打開一條生產線是半導體晶圓生產線的十倍大所以對他來講這個量台積電將來在那邊蓋六個廠\n\n66\n00:23:16,131 --> 00:23:41,066\n該六個廠的量大概只可以滿足供應鏈一個小廠的生產量所以廠商今天到美國去他沒有義務去他要能夠賺錢他才會去所以我們認為可能會有一些最後的製程最後的需求可能會過去但是那個必須要市場夠大\n\n67\n00:23:42,327 --> 00:24:03,565\n但是美國確實太大了這個在亞利桑那下一個它的市場一定是在德州德州那邊有很多半導體的公司但是相距大概有兩千公里所以我在想一般台灣的供應鏈廠商都非常的小型小型的廠商對海外的經驗第一不足\n\n68\n00:24:04,085 --> 00:24:30,523\n第二個他的財務也會有困難第三個人才也有限所以你要現在把他帶過去其實沒有那麼簡單即使美國這樣的要求但是我想台灣的供應鏈廠商沒有那麼容易去移動這個是可以跟委員分享的部分所以我們認為台灣的廠商他一定會在重視他有市場的地方才會製造\n\n69\n00:24:31,724 --> 00:24:49,933\n但是供應的方法不一定只有在當地製造供應的方法也可能在台灣製造然後透過Logistics運送快速的運送送到滿足客戶的需求這個部分在我們過去的經驗上面都看到這樣的一個結果所以跟委員報告就是說比較專業的報告的話\n\n70\n00:24:51,434 --> 00:25:16,851\n我們尊重國內的供應商那麼他們如果有意願去發展這個美國的市場包括我剛才講的可能是生產完了以後可以賣給德州的廠商或者賣給這個華盛頓州的廠商等等但是他要有意願第一個意願他的意願一定建立在他是有獲利的這個情境下才會去那經濟部的立場就是幫助他\n\n71\n00:25:17,651 --> 00:25:32,606\n能夠快速的出海快速的落地然後能夠賺錢我要他的目的是他能夠賺到錢所以我們現在經濟部跟美國在談的也就是說不重複課稅也就是說這個不重複課稅不重複課稅雙重課稅談到哪裡了\n\n72\n00:25:38,411 --> 00:25:57,947\n現在眾議院已經過了現在在參議院在備那對經濟部來講的話就是幫助廠商能夠很穩健的在美國建立其他生產的態勢所以我想委員關心的這個命題是非常的重要\n\n73\n00:25:58,487 --> 00:26:13,793\n但是我們的供應商因為都太小型了小型的供應商非常的多所以他們會衡量自己的能力這裡面包括雖然有市場但是所以沒有能力過去的未來就要瞌睡是不是\n\n74\n00:26:16,347 --> 00:26:39,145\n我們現在跟美國在談,另外一方面保護,我們也跟美國在談,是不是在半導體能夠跟台灣一樣,台灣現在在科學園區裡面所有進口的材料、設備、零件等等是免稅的,所以我們也希望美國那邊就這一方面來講,\n\n75\n00:26:41,107 --> 00:27:00,307\n他也能夠免稅這個是我想作為我們將來談判的一個非常重要的一個關鍵好那我們知道經濟部也在推動了就是自駕車的相關的計畫在張濱工業區裡面有張濱鹿港觀光的接駁案那我想要請問現在自駕車他除了\n\n76\n00:27:04,551 --> 00:27:29,577\n可以在因為張濱工業區裡面他是一個比較人比較稀少的但是有沒有辦法在像彰化市啊像彰化市在八卦山旁邊他交通比較繁忙的區域有沒有可能在這樣子相關的區域做一般來講我們希望不影響這個所有的城市的動作動態所以這個測試呢可以在晚上\n\n77\n00:27:30,317 --> 00:27:43,660\n夜間在某一個區塊固定的區塊我們經過公告這個當然要地方政府能夠配合因為畢竟現在已經從電動車要發展成自駕車了這也是未來整個AI的\n\n78\n00:27:51,662 --> 00:28:13,714\n就是相關的發展的一個趨勢如果永遠都只有在觀光區在工業區裡面那這樣子就沒有辦法發展成一個他這個需要跟委員報告就是說他在工業區或者在實驗區裡面他有安全的考量所以當你這個智慧城市\n\n79\n00:28:14,854 --> 00:28:41,713\n這個周邊配套的都已經完備了以後那麼我們自駕車就放到這個智慧城市的這個區域裡面去進行這個事情我想我們現在有很多的這個配合也就是說每個地方他要做智慧城市的這個開發跟研發那麼我們自駕車當然就是其中的一部分那麼在還沒有得到這個地方政府的配合情況之下自駕車只能在自己的有安全\n\n80\n00:28:42,855 --> 00:28:43,257\n無綠的場域裡面來做實驗\n\n81\n00:28:47,693 --> 00:29:13,413\n你認為什麼時候我們的自駕車可以發展成在馬路上因為畢竟還有我們的產業什麼時候可以切入自駕車因為現在其實我們知道的我們電動車在發展的過程當中因為零組件的減少導致於我們現在電動車相關的產業大家也面臨到一個生產的瓶頸\n\n82\n00:29:14,173 --> 00:29:29,405\n那未來又是自駕車的這樣子一個時代那台灣怎麼切進去那怎麼樣子能夠讓我們就是台灣相關的零組件的廠商能夠及早佈局能夠切入這個相關的這個產業鏈裡面\n\n83\n00:29:32,112 --> 00:29:46,507\n報告委員因為台灣的市場其實還不夠大所以我們建議台灣在做自駕車的廠商他要做成EMS也就是說幫人家做代工不是自己的品牌\n\n84\n00:29:47,108 --> 00:30:14,936\n但是是共同的它可以生產因為有生產的經濟的量出來以後那麼我們台灣做這些零組件的廠商就會有很大的量它可以降低成本那台灣因為這樣子的話替別人替有品牌的公司來代工製造的話這裡面呢我們可以得到比較高的這個利益因為為什麼因為我們幾乎啊自駕車裡面所用的電子零組件這個都是我們台灣擁有非常高的優勢\n\n85\n00:30:15,976 --> 00:30:38,845\n那第二個做EMS代工的這個這個產業在台灣來講已經非常的成熟台灣的EMS會得到世界啊任何的這個有品牌公司的讚許主要是我們具有速度又好謝謝謝依鳳委員的資訊謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝歡迎現在在議場二樓\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4953\t10918\t謝謝院長我想要請卓院長農業部長還有環境部長麻煩請卓院長農業部環境部備選\n26517\t35623\t我想要了解一下其實我知道說我們減碳一直是我們政府的目標但是\n36874\t54473\t我們看到了對於農民有幫助的在減碳部分因為現在有非常多的企業投入了這樣子SDGs以及我們ESG相關的這樣子的一個發展\n56015\t71265\t這都跟農業有絕對的相關性我也去看了我們彰化縣農業非常多有志於發展農業科技以及結合綠電以及永續發展的農資農財這樣子相關的發展\n75908\t99858\t但是我發現了一個非常奇怪的就是當我們的農業要來減碳的時候他一定要有減碳的方法學那我想要請問的是我們彭部長我們目前環境部對於減碳的方法學審理到底需要多久的時間\n100994\t115866\t保護委員過去的確是比較久但是我們現在過去多久過去可能都要一兩年因為過去比較久但是現在大概我們通過了五個過去多久你說過去我不知清楚但是我們過去這幾個月大概通過了四個方法學\n116887\t130988\t包括譬如說森林的管理還有這種竹林還有各種的育苗的處理其實已經有五個方法學會那未來呢未來目前譬如說海洋的海藻或是紅樹林也正在申請當中\n132113\t147824\t因為我覺得這個減碳的方法學對於農民是非常重要的尤其是小農過去我在質詢農委會的時候我們就怎麼樣子把這些方法學因為小農他沒有辦法\n148804\t172154\t去自己去提出申請那一定是農委會等相關的協助我們整個小農對於整個企業的方法學一定要讓他們有一個可以共同遵循的方向但是在方法學的審理上面即便這個方法學是在農業部這邊是不是\n174736\t192307\t我跟委員報告我們農業部本身所擬定的現在目前有五個方法學系送到環境部那環境部本身過往是比較慢但是這一年多來這將近一年來其實他們審理的速度大概平均大概是六個月到八個月就可以出來\n192907\t213277\t那最近的比較重要委員所關切的特別是跟跟作有關的土壤的方法學那現在也已經進到環境部的第二次審查那我們預計審查過的過程裡面有一些需修正的那如果過了以後對於我們農業經營上面的的這些簡單的作為就會很有幫助\n214670\t242592\t對 如果沒有減碳的這個方法學的時候農民怎麼利用減碳去得到就是說除了種植農作物以外的這樣子就是說國際在追求減碳的這個過程當中他們額外的收入那我們知道說目前農民的數量減少但是有青農的加入我們希望青農在加入以後\n243212\t256731\t可以藉由這種對於農業新興的獲利的方式來協助他們除了在耕種以外能夠藉由碳費能夠得到一筆收入這是我們希望能夠帶來未來\n258893\t277432\t農業可以永續發展以及結合現在企業要投入永續農業以及ESG相關的作為的時候如果環境部你們的方法學沒有提出的話你們沒有加速審理的話你們都還在這裡局部不前的話那這樣子未來我們農業怎麼發展是不是\n279634\t298895\t包委員這個是我們非常重視的但是因為我們台灣過去對於農業的方法學是比較陌生的但是現在有在加快但是我也跟委員報告因為我們目前的碳費的價格是只有300塊那其實在這個市場上如果農民來做這個東西其實現在的價值性不高\n299375\t324593\t那我們未來其實更重要的一環是要推動總量管制的排放交易如果明年下半年我們可以上路的話農民的誘因因為我們台灣的土地相對的農民的土地都比較小所以他要做整個碳匯的價值 額外的收入的話其實是成本跟收入不成比例的所以未來我們也會擴大跟農民的再溝通希望能夠來幫助農民在減碳的部分能夠獲得不一樣的收益\n325146\t338805\t我在這邊跟委員補充就是個別農戶因為他土地面積小就算他得到的碳費本身的減碳的價值是非常低的所以我們已經同步針對這個個體小農去做集結變成集團栽培的經營組去做處理的話\n341969\t368488\t那樣子他比較得到比較大的量可以跟ESG做結合在第一個部分第二個部分就是委員所關切的其實在彰化有很多葡萄農這些枝條的部分那現在我們農業部也推動了剩餘資源的循環在利用特別是將這些枝條剪下來以後經過粉碎以後變成生殖燃料的生殖燃料棒那這個生殖燃料棒的部分也可以當作一個能源的一個替代\n369804\t377072\t那我還想要請,謝謝彭部長,我想要請衛福部的邱部長。麻煩請衛福部備詢。\n380875\t404874\t農業部我們陳部長請等一下我想請問一下就是對於紐西蘭的牛乳進口這個部分其實糯農還是很希望說我們可以維持就是說就是在鮮乳的部分我們希望紐西蘭進口的鮮乳能夠不要加上長效鮮乳這個部分以長效乳來鑄成那\n409117\t437215\t為什麼衛福部都沒有辦法我是不是可以說明一下現在我們跟衛福部其實針對這個議題討論的非常多那最新的一個共識而且也經過諾能的座談裡面討論的就是未來只要是有鮮乳標章產銷履歷跟CAS的國產乳才能夠標鮮乳國產的鮮乳然後其他的部分包括進口的我們\n438055\t455917\t修正了相關的經濟部的一個標準局的相關的規範未來的牛乳的話只能分為牛乳、羊乳不能再加先制因為先制本身是一個形容詞它很難去界定說它是幾天以下才叫做先所以未來只有國內生產的牛乳\n457385\t476122\t國內生產的牛乳而且是要取得我們的證明標章鮮乳證明標章產銷履歷或是CS的那這三個標章是為了讓我們的國內的牛乳本身具有產品的差異化那透過這樣的產品差異化才能夠讓我們的國產牛乳在市面上比較有大的競爭力\n477093\t491870\t那所以未來紐西蘭或其他國家進口的就不能夠加上鮮嗎?對,根據相關的規定就只能叫做牛奶所以就不會加上鮮乳,就是會排解我們目前就是國內弱農的疑慮是不是?\n492791\t508741\t我希望說我們相關的作業能夠加速可以嗎因為今年度是因為就是紐西蘭的牛乳他生產並不多那進口的數量也不多那未來如果進口的數量多的話那恐怕會影響國內酪農的相關的生產\n510862\t526345\t我跟你們提供一個數據,其實紐西蘭進口本身以去年來講是一萬三千多噸那一萬三千多噸裡面有將近一萬噸是薄酒爐的系統其實它紐西蘭本身它鮮乳的進口量只佔它整個進口量的百分之三十\n527652\t543104\t好那那個邱部長再麻煩你把這個部分就是相關的法律能夠協助好不好好是的好謝謝那我再想要請問一下就是我們經濟部的郭部長農業部衛生部請回\n555184\t578934\t我剛才那個陳部長他提到了就是農業的減肥其實我昨天排了一個到設計研究院也就是你經濟部所屬的這樣子一個財團法人那我們去看了就是裡面他已經有就是設計好的機台已經把果皮或者是果渣等等\n579514\t593594\t它可以藉由這樣子一個轉變變成第一個可穿的布料或者是目前作為我們電動車車上的皮料\n596678\t616289\t那以這樣子的一個研究以及讓我們的循環經濟能夠成為可實現的這樣子的一個方法,那我想要請問一下我們經濟部以及我們行政院是不是應該要大力的支持?\n617287\t643575\t是的 我們經濟部是有支持我們有提供研發投資抵減 抵減率大概15%各個產業都可以來申請試用我想請問的是因為其實設計本身是一個產業目前產品的設計以及相關的這是不是也請我們財政部的\n645553\t658963\t財政部貝雪報告委員 我想設計業者從事據一定創新程度的創作這些相關研發的支出也可以申請那麼在修訂設備投資抵檢的子辦法時亦會將設計業所需的AI軟硬體設備或者技術這個抵檢率有5%納入評估\n670450\t685111\t我是說對於品牌的設計以及對於我們產品製程的相關設計尤其是對於像這樣子農費的再循環利用變成工業的產品的\n686833\t706378\t相關製程的這樣子的一個研發設計那是不是我們不用透過修法以執法的修訂那就可以把他們納入就是企業的這個投資底檢的這個項目裡面那這樣子郭部長他是大力的支持那莊部長呢\n707948\t721146\t我想在目前來說相關的法律裡面對原發的支出都已經有投資抵減那在執法規裡面只要在法律的這個法律的上位之下都可以訂定相關的一些細節項目\n722908\t739744\t因為我們看到了目前台灣他希望能走出自己的品牌我們希望利用自己的產品在世界打出我們自己的品牌我們當然除了半導體以外我們還有非常重要的傳產\n740845\t755451\t那重要的傳產裡面他們沒有透過這樣子的產品的設計的話他們沒有辦法能夠在國際有自由品牌我想要請問郭部長你知道吧你的過去你的次長\n756731\t782237\t連錦章市長他現在就在設計研究院裡面當董事長他對於產業界非常熟悉所以他可以把產業界的意見以及我們設計團隊的意見共同結合起來對於台灣的這樣子設計產業的相關的這個共同研發的動力是非常大的\n782617\t791688\t所以我們經濟部絕對不能夠放棄這樣子的一個項目我們一定要繼續的來培植我們的設計產業我們過去我們有金馬獎\n798897\t802300\t然後呢現在我們過去我們的戲劇在國際都獲得非常好的成績現在我們的設計也有經典獎我們的設計跟世界上的設計的大獎\n815370\t842857\t共同都有互相的合作那未來如果可以把台灣產品的設計力能夠展現出來的時候那是不是對於未來台灣不管是在高科技產業或者是在傳產裡面都有相關的協助那現在我們是不是能獲得我們郭部長以及莊部長共同的支持\n844154\t865585\t報告委員,我們支持設計發展,所以我們編列的還不錯的預算。跟委員報告,我們藉由台灣設計研究院,整合國內的設計相關產業協會,共同來推動。每一年我們投入的經費大概有六億元。\n866685\t874575\t今年大概114年是6.03億元,主要協助產業設計創新,提高產品的附加價值,藉由補助、輔導措施,協助產業的商品或服務設計價值,以提高產品的附加價值。\n885749\t908147\t所以委員所垂詢的我們更推動公共服務的設計改善也推動台灣設計國際的推廣因為主要我們希望把台灣能夠重新的定位重新設計台灣是一個團隊的產業我們把它整合成團隊往外服務世界的公民\n909039\t927155\t六億的預算佔其實我們三兆的總預算裡面非常小的一部分但是其實它發揮了非常大的一個影響力因為它涉及的層面不只我們的公共建設還有公共的政策還有我們的產業面那當然了\n927535\t953746\t今年度的台灣設計展即將在10月10號到26號在彰化縣舉辦我們也希望行政院跟我們經濟部可以大力的協助好不好是的好 謝謝莊部長那我再請教一下我們的郭部長跟我們國發會的我們的劉主委劉主委麻煩請國發會備選\n967040\t992710\t劉主委國務長覺得那個台積電都不是他的指控師不過你國發會對於台積電有投資你也是他的董事你對他的了解應該很大吧應該還可以啦還可以啊那個我想請問現在台積電即將赴美\n993806\t1019696\t再投資三座,還是五座?六座總共呢?總共六座,再加三座嘛總共六座嘛還有兩個Covas廠那請問,如果未來有六加二座,就是八座在美國那相關的零組件會不會都過去?\n1020786\t1043279\t基本上以我個人的立場我希望過去的原因是他有需求如果這個需求被別的國家的人拿走對我們國內的產業是不利的那我們希望讓台灣的產業立足台灣放眼全球我們希望攻城略地讓他們在美國也可以發展進而奪取美國的半導體市場\n1044868\t1059476\t所以你希望其他的供應商都過去嗎我也跟委員報告一下我們在半導體的化學材料已經做到純度世界第一所以現在其實美國的大廠也發現台灣的產品的優良也開始跟台灣買\n1060871\t1085080\t在沒有台積電的情況下已經有兩家廠商已經到了美國去設廠賣給Intel所以我們希望幫助台灣的產業鏈能夠再放遠全球尤其在兩個部分第一個是材料的部分第二個是設備的部分這是我們目前的短板我們希望讓它進入全球然後放大整個產業的發展這是我們供應鏈韌性的一環但是國內非常多的業者\n1087870\t1103369\t會擔心的是如果我們全部都移到美國去了那台灣剩下什麼我們剩下關鍵技術跟最新的製程以及我們的研發能力因為我們會把它留下來\n1104672\t1119706\t報告委員 不是台灣的產業移到美國去 不是我們是工程略進我們是護國神山的周遭我們護國神山都移到美國去了護國神山的周遭也有一些是我們最先進的技術如果只有護國神山去\n1120186\t1140920\t我們的技術沒有去他在那邊重新開發會造成回頭跟我們這裡的相關產業變成競爭所以主委的意思是護國神山去我們相關配合的供應鏈產商也要去保持我們永遠在護國神山以及旁邊隨時供應鏈各種供應鏈上的領先地位到底去多少\n1142200\t1169853\t這個我要通過何人的評估這個去多少是民間自己的意志我們現在沒辦法評估等他到經濟部申請的時候我們就會很清楚那去了一部分好了那留在台灣的是最關鍵的技術你能確保他會持續的壯大嗎我們要要求所有的廠商保持台灣關鍵領先的地位保持台灣關鍵技術的地位劉主委\n1171904\t1193575\t廠商要壯大一定要有市場我說台積電在台灣會繼續壯大嗎?這個葦哲嘉董事長在總統府的記者會講得很清楚在台灣的投資沒有改變他說他缺電跟缺水11個廠沒有改變這他有講得很清楚報告委員這個是這樣子就是說到美國去他生產的不是最先進的\n1194482\t1210358\t他希望是最先進的但是台積電他這個公司來講他不可能沒有把握的東西就在那邊生產所以他需要台灣的供應鏈這個也就是說我們總統最近在呼籲的希望把半導體這個供應鏈能夠大家\n1215083\t1240462\t有一個聯盟的倡議所以我們現在經濟部就是在幫助台灣的廠商然後再結合國內外的所有半導體供應鏈的廠商能夠在台灣做最先進的研發當研發都落在台灣的時候我相信不管在不一定是在美國全球各地要發展半導體的他一定要來找我們\n1240762\t1267520\t那是不是因為在美國的廠那到底有沒有辦法就是說那麼快的生產還是他建廠的過程就會有問題跟委員報告就我個人專業的這個經驗來講蓋一座廠這麼先進的一座廠如果沒有經驗去蓋那麼他肯定要花三年的時間\n1269158\t1294745\t那美國也沒有台灣建廠的這樣的一個過去的經驗所以他剛開始蓋第一個廠就像這個魏董事長講的他吃盡苦頭我相信他蓋第二個廠可能會有一些improve不過還是沒有辦法借重台灣的經驗的話所以他才講說那我可能要一千個人過去來協助他順利所以我們可以看得出來\n1295865\t1310679\t也就是說他可能四年內他怎麼樣加快速度但是受限於當地的建築開發廠商或者是這些建築廠商是不是有辦法在四年內蓋出來這些廠\n1314022\t1338574\t這個是不是那麼容易可以做得到的一件事情那如果我們現在就是連台積電他這樣子的就是一個已經在那裡有廠的公司他都沒有辦法有就是說能夠按照他預期的去蓋廠那未來我們如果有更多的供應鏈過去的時候那我們的廠商是不是\n1339534\t1360427\t所以供應鏈它會有選擇,以現在就是說我不一定要在美國生產,我在台灣製造完了以後,然後送到美國去,然後做最後一個製程,最後一個製程很重要,就是說半導體它在捷徑的環境裡面去製造,所以我相信很多的廠商會把Last Mile放在那裡做Cleaning,\n1361067\t1376465\t所有的Cleaning都是包括Components包括所有的Spare parts包括他穿上Operator所穿的這個無塵衣無塵帽無塵鞋子這一些東西都是需要Cleaning我相信Cleaning的廠商一定會過去\n1377796\t1391387\t但是其他的因為任何一個供應鏈的廠商他打開一條生產線是半導體晶圓生產線的十倍大所以對他來講這個量台積電將來在那邊蓋六個廠\n1396131\t1421066\t該六個廠的量大概只可以滿足供應鏈一個小廠的生產量所以廠商今天到美國去他沒有義務去他要能夠賺錢他才會去所以我們認為可能會有一些最後的製程最後的需求可能會過去但是那個必須要市場夠大\n1422327\t1443565\t但是美國確實太大了這個在亞利桑那下一個它的市場一定是在德州德州那邊有很多半導體的公司但是相距大概有兩千公里所以我在想一般台灣的供應鏈廠商都非常的小型小型的廠商對海外的經驗第一不足\n1444085\t1470523\t第二個他的財務也會有困難第三個人才也有限所以你要現在把他帶過去其實沒有那麼簡單即使美國這樣的要求但是我想台灣的供應鏈廠商沒有那麼容易去移動這個是可以跟委員分享的部分所以我們認為台灣的廠商他一定會在重視他有市場的地方才會製造\n1471724\t1489933\t但是供應的方法不一定只有在當地製造供應的方法也可能在台灣製造然後透過Logistics運送快速的運送送到滿足客戶的需求這個部分在我們過去的經驗上面都看到這樣的一個結果所以跟委員報告就是說比較專業的報告的話\n1491434\t1516851\t我們尊重國內的供應商那麼他們如果有意願去發展這個美國的市場包括我剛才講的可能是生產完了以後可以賣給德州的廠商或者賣給這個華盛頓州的廠商等等但是他要有意願第一個意願他的意願一定建立在他是有獲利的這個情境下才會去那經濟部的立場就是幫助他\n1517651\t1532606\t能夠快速的出海快速的落地然後能夠賺錢我要他的目的是他能夠賺到錢所以我們現在經濟部跟美國在談的也就是說不重複課稅也就是說這個不重複課稅不重複課稅雙重課稅談到哪裡了\n1538411\t1557947\t現在眾議院已經過了現在在參議院在備那對經濟部來講的話就是幫助廠商能夠很穩健的在美國建立其他生產的態勢所以我想委員關心的這個命題是非常的重要\n1558487\t1573793\t但是我們的供應商因為都太小型了小型的供應商非常的多所以他們會衡量自己的能力這裡面包括雖然有市場但是所以沒有能力過去的未來就要瞌睡是不是\n1576347\t1599145\t我們現在跟美國在談,另外一方面保護,我們也跟美國在談,是不是在半導體能夠跟台灣一樣,台灣現在在科學園區裡面所有進口的材料、設備、零件等等是免稅的,所以我們也希望美國那邊就這一方面來講,\n1601107\t1620307\t他也能夠免稅這個是我想作為我們將來談判的一個非常重要的一個關鍵好那我們知道經濟部也在推動了就是自駕車的相關的計畫在張濱工業區裡面有張濱鹿港觀光的接駁案那我想要請問現在自駕車他除了\n1624551\t1649577\t可以在因為張濱工業區裡面他是一個比較人比較稀少的但是有沒有辦法在像彰化市啊像彰化市在八卦山旁邊他交通比較繁忙的區域有沒有可能在這樣子相關的區域做一般來講我們希望不影響這個所有的城市的動作動態所以這個測試呢可以在晚上\n1650317\t1663660\t夜間在某一個區塊固定的區塊我們經過公告這個當然要地方政府能夠配合因為畢竟現在已經從電動車要發展成自駕車了這也是未來整個AI的\n1671662\t1693714\t就是相關的發展的一個趨勢如果永遠都只有在觀光區在工業區裡面那這樣子就沒有辦法發展成一個他這個需要跟委員報告就是說他在工業區或者在實驗區裡面他有安全的考量所以當你這個智慧城市\n1694854\t1721713\t這個周邊配套的都已經完備了以後那麼我們自駕車就放到這個智慧城市的這個區域裡面去進行這個事情我想我們現在有很多的這個配合也就是說每個地方他要做智慧城市的這個開發跟研發那麼我們自駕車當然就是其中的一部分那麼在還沒有得到這個地方政府的配合情況之下自駕車只能在自己的有安全\n1722855\t1723257\t無綠的場域裡面來做實驗\n1727693\t1753413\t你認為什麼時候我們的自駕車可以發展成在馬路上因為畢竟還有我們的產業什麼時候可以切入自駕車因為現在其實我們知道的我們電動車在發展的過程當中因為零組件的減少導致於我們現在電動車相關的產業大家也面臨到一個生產的瓶頸\n1754173\t1769405\t那未來又是自駕車的這樣子一個時代那台灣怎麼切進去那怎麼樣子能夠讓我們就是台灣相關的零組件的廠商能夠及早佈局能夠切入這個相關的這個產業鏈裡面\n1772112\t1786507\t報告委員因為台灣的市場其實還不夠大所以我們建議台灣在做自駕車的廠商他要做成EMS也就是說幫人家做代工不是自己的品牌\n1787108\t1814936\t但是是共同的它可以生產因為有生產的經濟的量出來以後那麼我們台灣做這些零組件的廠商就會有很大的量它可以降低成本那台灣因為這樣子的話替別人替有品牌的公司來代工製造的話這裡面呢我們可以得到比較高的這個利益因為為什麼因為我們幾乎啊自駕車裡面所用的電子零組件這個都是我們台灣擁有非常高的優勢\n1815976\t1838845\t那第二個做EMS代工的這個這個產業在台灣來講已經非常的成熟台灣的EMS會得到世界啊任何的這個有品牌公司的讚許主要是我們具有速度又好 謝謝謝依鳳委員的資訊謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝歡迎現在在議場二樓\n","txt":"謝謝院長我想要請卓院長農業部長還有環境部長麻煩請卓院長農業部環境部備選\n我想要了解一下其實我知道說我們減碳一直是我們政府的目標但是\n我們看到了對於農民有幫助的在減碳部分因為現在有非常多的企業投入了這樣子SDGs以及我們ESG相關的這樣子的一個發展\n這都跟農業有絕對的相關性我也去看了我們彰化縣農業非常多有志於發展農業科技以及結合綠電以及永續發展的農資農財這樣子相關的發展\n但是我發現了一個非常奇怪的就是當我們的農業要來減碳的時候他一定要有減碳的方法學那我想要請問的是我們彭部長我們目前環境部對於減碳的方法學審理到底需要多久的時間\n保護委員過去的確是比較久但是我們現在過去多久過去可能都要一兩年因為過去比較久但是現在大概我們通過了五個過去多久你說過去我不知清楚但是我們過去這幾個月大概通過了四個方法學\n包括譬如說森林的管理還有這種竹林還有各種的育苗的處理其實已經有五個方法學會那未來呢未來目前譬如說海洋的海藻或是紅樹林也正在申請當中\n因為我覺得這個減碳的方法學對於農民是非常重要的尤其是小農過去我在質詢農委會的時候我們就怎麼樣子把這些方法學因為小農他沒有辦法\n去自己去提出申請那一定是農委會等相關的協助我們整個小農對於整個企業的方法學一定要讓他們有一個可以共同遵循的方向但是在方法學的審理上面即便這個方法學是在農業部這邊是不是\n我跟委員報告我們農業部本身所擬定的現在目前有五個方法學系送到環境部那環境部本身過往是比較慢但是這一年多來這將近一年來其實他們審理的速度大概平均大概是六個月到八個月就可以出來\n那最近的比較重要委員所關切的特別是跟跟作有關的土壤的方法學那現在也已經進到環境部的第二次審查那我們預計審查過的過程裡面有一些需修正的那如果過了以後對於我們農業經營上面的的這些簡單的作為就會很有幫助\n對 如果沒有減碳的這個方法學的時候農民怎麼利用減碳去得到就是說除了種植農作物以外的這樣子就是說國際在追求減碳的這個過程當中他們額外的收入那我們知道說目前農民的數量減少但是有青農的加入我們希望青農在加入以後\n可以藉由這種對於農業新興的獲利的方式來協助他們除了在耕種以外能夠藉由碳費能夠得到一筆收入這是我們希望能夠帶來未來\n農業可以永續發展以及結合現在企業要投入永續農業以及ESG相關的作為的時候如果環境部你們的方法學沒有提出的話你們沒有加速審理的話你們都還在這裡局部不前的話那這樣子未來我們農業怎麼發展是不是\n包委員這個是我們非常重視的但是因為我們台灣過去對於農業的方法學是比較陌生的但是現在有在加快但是我也跟委員報告因為我們目前的碳費的價格是只有300塊那其實在這個市場上如果農民來做這個東西其實現在的價值性不高\n那我們未來其實更重要的一環是要推動總量管制的排放交易如果明年下半年我們可以上路的話農民的誘因因為我們台灣的土地相對的農民的土地都比較小所以他要做整個碳匯的價值 額外的收入的話其實是成本跟收入不成比例的所以未來我們也會擴大跟農民的再溝通希望能夠來幫助農民在減碳的部分能夠獲得不一樣的收益\n我在這邊跟委員補充就是個別農戶因為他土地面積小就算他得到的碳費本身的減碳的價值是非常低的所以我們已經同步針對這個個體小農去做集結變成集團栽培的經營組去做處理的話\n那樣子他比較得到比較大的量可以跟ESG做結合在第一個部分第二個部分就是委員所關切的其實在彰化有很多葡萄農這些枝條的部分那現在我們農業部也推動了剩餘資源的循環在利用特別是將這些枝條剪下來以後經過粉碎以後變成生殖燃料的生殖燃料棒那這個生殖燃料棒的部分也可以當作一個能源的一個替代\n那我還想要請,謝謝彭部長,我想要請衛福部的邱部長。麻煩請衛福部備詢。\n農業部我們陳部長請等一下我想請問一下就是對於紐西蘭的牛乳進口這個部分其實糯農還是很希望說我們可以維持就是說就是在鮮乳的部分我們希望紐西蘭進口的鮮乳能夠不要加上長效鮮乳這個部分以長效乳來鑄成那\n為什麼衛福部都沒有辦法我是不是可以說明一下現在我們跟衛福部其實針對這個議題討論的非常多那最新的一個共識而且也經過諾能的座談裡面討論的就是未來只要是有鮮乳標章產銷履歷跟CAS的國產乳才能夠標鮮乳國產的鮮乳然後其他的部分包括進口的我們\n修正了相關的經濟部的一個標準局的相關的規範未來的牛乳的話只能分為牛乳、羊乳不能再加先制因為先制本身是一個形容詞它很難去界定說它是幾天以下才叫做先所以未來只有國內生產的牛乳\n國內生產的牛乳而且是要取得我們的證明標章鮮乳證明標章產銷履歷或是CS的那這三個標章是為了讓我們的國內的牛乳本身具有產品的差異化那透過這樣的產品差異化才能夠讓我們的國產牛乳在市面上比較有大的競爭力\n那所以未來紐西蘭或其他國家進口的就不能夠加上鮮嗎?對,根據相關的規定就只能叫做牛奶所以就不會加上鮮乳,就是會排解我們目前就是國內弱農的疑慮是不是?\n我希望說我們相關的作業能夠加速可以嗎因為今年度是因為就是紐西蘭的牛乳他生產並不多那進口的數量也不多那未來如果進口的數量多的話那恐怕會影響國內酪農的相關的生產\n我跟你們提供一個數據,其實紐西蘭進口本身以去年來講是一萬三千多噸那一萬三千多噸裡面有將近一萬噸是薄酒爐的系統其實它紐西蘭本身它鮮乳的進口量只佔它整個進口量的百分之三十\n好那那個邱部長再麻煩你把這個部分就是相關的法律能夠協助好不好好是的好謝謝那我再想要請問一下就是我們經濟部的郭部長農業部衛生部請回\n我剛才那個陳部長他提到了就是農業的減肥其實我昨天排了一個到設計研究院也就是你經濟部所屬的這樣子一個財團法人那我們去看了就是裡面他已經有就是設計好的機台已經把果皮或者是果渣等等\n它可以藉由這樣子一個轉變變成第一個可穿的布料或者是目前作為我們電動車車上的皮料\n那以這樣子的一個研究以及讓我們的循環經濟能夠成為可實現的這樣子的一個方法,那我想要請問一下我們經濟部以及我們行政院是不是應該要大力的支持?\n是的 我們經濟部是有支持我們有提供研發投資抵減 抵減率大概15%各個產業都可以來申請試用我想請問的是因為其實設計本身是一個產業目前產品的設計以及相關的這是不是也請我們財政部的\n財政部貝雪報告委員 我想設計業者從事據一定創新程度的創作這些相關研發的支出也可以申請那麼在修訂設備投資抵檢的子辦法時亦會將設計業所需的AI軟硬體設備或者技術這個抵檢率有5%納入評估\n我是說對於品牌的設計以及對於我們產品製程的相關設計尤其是對於像這樣子農費的再循環利用變成工業的產品的\n相關製程的這樣子的一個研發設計那是不是我們不用透過修法以執法的修訂那就可以把他們納入就是企業的這個投資底檢的這個項目裡面那這樣子郭部長他是大力的支持那莊部長呢\n我想在目前來說相關的法律裡面對原發的支出都已經有投資抵減那在執法規裡面只要在法律的這個法律的上位之下都可以訂定相關的一些細節項目\n因為我們看到了目前台灣他希望能走出自己的品牌我們希望利用自己的產品在世界打出我們自己的品牌我們當然除了半導體以外我們還有非常重要的傳產\n那重要的傳產裡面他們沒有透過這樣子的產品的設計的話他們沒有辦法能夠在國際有自由品牌我想要請問郭部長你知道吧你的過去你的次長\n連錦章市長他現在就在設計研究院裡面當董事長他對於產業界非常熟悉所以他可以把產業界的意見以及我們設計團隊的意見共同結合起來對於台灣的這樣子設計產業的相關的這個共同研發的動力是非常大的\n所以我們經濟部絕對不能夠放棄這樣子的一個項目我們一定要繼續的來培植我們的設計產業我們過去我們有金馬獎\n然後呢現在我們過去我們的戲劇在國際都獲得非常好的成績現在我們的設計也有經典獎我們的設計跟世界上的設計的大獎\n共同都有互相的合作那未來如果可以把台灣產品的設計力能夠展現出來的時候那是不是對於未來台灣不管是在高科技產業或者是在傳產裡面都有相關的協助那現在我們是不是能獲得我們郭部長以及莊部長共同的支持\n報告委員,我們支持設計發展,所以我們編列的還不錯的預算。跟委員報告,我們藉由台灣設計研究院,整合國內的設計相關產業協會,共同來推動。每一年我們投入的經費大概有六億元。\n今年大概114年是6.03億元,主要協助產業設計創新,提高產品的附加價值,藉由補助、輔導措施,協助產業的商品或服務設計價值,以提高產品的附加價值。\n所以委員所垂詢的我們更推動公共服務的設計改善也推動台灣設計國際的推廣因為主要我們希望把台灣能夠重新的定位重新設計台灣是一個團隊的產業我們把它整合成團隊往外服務世界的公民\n六億的預算佔其實我們三兆的總預算裡面非常小的一部分但是其實它發揮了非常大的一個影響力因為它涉及的層面不只我們的公共建設還有公共的政策還有我們的產業面那當然了\n今年度的台灣設計展即將在10月10號到26號在彰化縣舉辦我們也希望行政院跟我們經濟部可以大力的協助好不好是的好 謝謝莊部長那我再請教一下我們的郭部長跟我們國發會的我們的劉主委劉主委麻煩請國發會備選\n劉主委國務長覺得那個台積電都不是他的指控師不過你國發會對於台積電有投資你也是他的董事你對他的了解應該很大吧應該還可以啦還可以啊那個我想請問現在台積電即將赴美\n再投資三座,還是五座?六座總共呢?總共六座,再加三座嘛總共六座嘛還有兩個Covas廠那請問,如果未來有六加二座,就是八座在美國那相關的零組件會不會都過去?\n基本上以我個人的立場我希望過去的原因是他有需求如果這個需求被別的國家的人拿走對我們國內的產業是不利的那我們希望讓台灣的產業立足台灣放眼全球我們希望攻城略地讓他們在美國也可以發展進而奪取美國的半導體市場\n所以你希望其他的供應商都過去嗎我也跟委員報告一下我們在半導體的化學材料已經做到純度世界第一所以現在其實美國的大廠也發現台灣的產品的優良也開始跟台灣買\n在沒有台積電的情況下已經有兩家廠商已經到了美國去設廠賣給Intel所以我們希望幫助台灣的產業鏈能夠再放遠全球尤其在兩個部分第一個是材料的部分第二個是設備的部分這是我們目前的短板我們希望讓它進入全球然後放大整個產業的發展這是我們供應鏈韌性的一環但是國內非常多的業者\n會擔心的是如果我們全部都移到美國去了那台灣剩下什麼我們剩下關鍵技術跟最新的製程以及我們的研發能力因為我們會把它留下來\n報告委員 不是台灣的產業移到美國去 不是我們是工程略進我們是護國神山的周遭我們護國神山都移到美國去了護國神山的周遭也有一些是我們最先進的技術如果只有護國神山去\n我們的技術沒有去他在那邊重新開發會造成回頭跟我們這裡的相關產業變成競爭所以主委的意思是護國神山去我們相關配合的供應鏈產商也要去保持我們永遠在護國神山以及旁邊隨時供應鏈各種供應鏈上的領先地位到底去多少\n這個我要通過何人的評估這個去多少是民間自己的意志我們現在沒辦法評估等他到經濟部申請的時候我們就會很清楚那去了一部分好了那留在台灣的是最關鍵的技術你能確保他會持續的壯大嗎我們要要求所有的廠商保持台灣關鍵領先的地位保持台灣關鍵技術的地位劉主委\n廠商要壯大一定要有市場我說台積電在台灣會繼續壯大嗎?這個葦哲嘉董事長在總統府的記者會講得很清楚在台灣的投資沒有改變他說他缺電跟缺水11個廠沒有改變這他有講得很清楚報告委員這個是這樣子就是說到美國去他生產的不是最先進的\n他希望是最先進的但是台積電他這個公司來講他不可能沒有把握的東西就在那邊生產所以他需要台灣的供應鏈這個也就是說我們總統最近在呼籲的希望把半導體這個供應鏈能夠大家\n有一個聯盟的倡議所以我們現在經濟部就是在幫助台灣的廠商然後再結合國內外的所有半導體供應鏈的廠商能夠在台灣做最先進的研發當研發都落在台灣的時候我相信不管在不一定是在美國全球各地要發展半導體的他一定要來找我們\n那是不是因為在美國的廠那到底有沒有辦法就是說那麼快的生產還是他建廠的過程就會有問題跟委員報告就我個人專業的這個經驗來講蓋一座廠這麼先進的一座廠如果沒有經驗去蓋那麼他肯定要花三年的時間\n那美國也沒有台灣建廠的這樣的一個過去的經驗所以他剛開始蓋第一個廠就像這個魏董事長講的他吃盡苦頭我相信他蓋第二個廠可能會有一些improve不過還是沒有辦法借重台灣的經驗的話所以他才講說那我可能要一千個人過去來協助他順利所以我們可以看得出來\n也就是說他可能四年內他怎麼樣加快速度但是受限於當地的建築開發廠商或者是這些建築廠商是不是有辦法在四年內蓋出來這些廠\n這個是不是那麼容易可以做得到的一件事情那如果我們現在就是連台積電他這樣子的就是一個已經在那裡有廠的公司他都沒有辦法有就是說能夠按照他預期的去蓋廠那未來我們如果有更多的供應鏈過去的時候那我們的廠商是不是\n所以供應鏈它會有選擇,以現在就是說我不一定要在美國生產,我在台灣製造完了以後,然後送到美國去,然後做最後一個製程,最後一個製程很重要,就是說半導體它在捷徑的環境裡面去製造,所以我相信很多的廠商會把Last Mile放在那裡做Cleaning,\n所有的Cleaning都是包括Components包括所有的Spare parts包括他穿上Operator所穿的這個無塵衣無塵帽無塵鞋子這一些東西都是需要Cleaning我相信Cleaning的廠商一定會過去\n但是其他的因為任何一個供應鏈的廠商他打開一條生產線是半導體晶圓生產線的十倍大所以對他來講這個量台積電將來在那邊蓋六個廠\n該六個廠的量大概只可以滿足供應鏈一個小廠的生產量所以廠商今天到美國去他沒有義務去他要能夠賺錢他才會去所以我們認為可能會有一些最後的製程最後的需求可能會過去但是那個必須要市場夠大\n但是美國確實太大了這個在亞利桑那下一個它的市場一定是在德州德州那邊有很多半導體的公司但是相距大概有兩千公里所以我在想一般台灣的供應鏈廠商都非常的小型小型的廠商對海外的經驗第一不足\n第二個他的財務也會有困難第三個人才也有限所以你要現在把他帶過去其實沒有那麼簡單即使美國這樣的要求但是我想台灣的供應鏈廠商沒有那麼容易去移動這個是可以跟委員分享的部分所以我們認為台灣的廠商他一定會在重視他有市場的地方才會製造\n但是供應的方法不一定只有在當地製造供應的方法也可能在台灣製造然後透過Logistics運送快速的運送送到滿足客戶的需求這個部分在我們過去的經驗上面都看到這樣的一個結果所以跟委員報告就是說比較專業的報告的話\n我們尊重國內的供應商那麼他們如果有意願去發展這個美國的市場包括我剛才講的可能是生產完了以後可以賣給德州的廠商或者賣給這個華盛頓州的廠商等等但是他要有意願第一個意願他的意願一定建立在他是有獲利的這個情境下才會去那經濟部的立場就是幫助他\n能夠快速的出海快速的落地然後能夠賺錢我要他的目的是他能夠賺到錢所以我們現在經濟部跟美國在談的也就是說不重複課稅也就是說這個不重複課稅不重複課稅雙重課稅談到哪裡了\n現在眾議院已經過了現在在參議院在備那對經濟部來講的話就是幫助廠商能夠很穩健的在美國建立其他生產的態勢所以我想委員關心的這個命題是非常的重要\n但是我們的供應商因為都太小型了小型的供應商非常的多所以他們會衡量自己的能力這裡面包括雖然有市場但是所以沒有能力過去的未來就要瞌睡是不是\n我們現在跟美國在談,另外一方面保護,我們也跟美國在談,是不是在半導體能夠跟台灣一樣,台灣現在在科學園區裡面所有進口的材料、設備、零件等等是免稅的,所以我們也希望美國那邊就這一方面來講,\n他也能夠免稅這個是我想作為我們將來談判的一個非常重要的一個關鍵好那我們知道經濟部也在推動了就是自駕車的相關的計畫在張濱工業區裡面有張濱鹿港觀光的接駁案那我想要請問現在自駕車他除了\n可以在因為張濱工業區裡面他是一個比較人比較稀少的但是有沒有辦法在像彰化市啊像彰化市在八卦山旁邊他交通比較繁忙的區域有沒有可能在這樣子相關的區域做一般來講我們希望不影響這個所有的城市的動作動態所以這個測試呢可以在晚上\n夜間在某一個區塊固定的區塊我們經過公告這個當然要地方政府能夠配合因為畢竟現在已經從電動車要發展成自駕車了這也是未來整個AI的\n就是相關的發展的一個趨勢如果永遠都只有在觀光區在工業區裡面那這樣子就沒有辦法發展成一個他這個需要跟委員報告就是說他在工業區或者在實驗區裡面他有安全的考量所以當你這個智慧城市\n這個周邊配套的都已經完備了以後那麼我們自駕車就放到這個智慧城市的這個區域裡面去進行這個事情我想我們現在有很多的這個配合也就是說每個地方他要做智慧城市的這個開發跟研發那麼我們自駕車當然就是其中的一部分那麼在還沒有得到這個地方政府的配合情況之下自駕車只能在自己的有安全\n無綠的場域裡面來做實驗\n你認為什麼時候我們的自駕車可以發展成在馬路上因為畢竟還有我們的產業什麼時候可以切入自駕車因為現在其實我們知道的我們電動車在發展的過程當中因為零組件的減少導致於我們現在電動車相關的產業大家也面臨到一個生產的瓶頸\n那未來又是自駕車的這樣子一個時代那台灣怎麼切進去那怎麼樣子能夠讓我們就是台灣相關的零組件的廠商能夠及早佈局能夠切入這個相關的這個產業鏈裡面\n報告委員因為台灣的市場其實還不夠大所以我們建議台灣在做自駕車的廠商他要做成EMS也就是說幫人家做代工不是自己的品牌\n但是是共同的它可以生產因為有生產的經濟的量出來以後那麼我們台灣做這些零組件的廠商就會有很大的量它可以降低成本那台灣因為這樣子的話替別人替有品牌的公司來代工製造的話這裡面呢我們可以得到比較高的這個利益因為為什麼因為我們幾乎啊自駕車裡面所用的電子零組件這個都是我們台灣擁有非常高的優勢\n那第二個做EMS代工的這個這個產業在台灣來講已經非常的成熟台灣的EMS會得到世界啊任何的這個有品牌公司的讚許主要是我們具有速度又好 謝謝謝依鳳委員的資訊謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝歡迎現在在議場二樓\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.953 --> 00:10.918\n謝謝院長我想要請卓院長農業部長還有環境部長麻煩請卓院長農業部環境部備選\n\n00:26.517 --> 00:35.623\n我想要了解一下其實我知道說我們減碳一直是我們政府的目標但是\n\n00:36.874 --> 00:54.473\n我們看到了對於農民有幫助的在減碳部分因為現在有非常多的企業投入了這樣子SDGs以及我們ESG相關的這樣子的一個發展\n\n00:56.015 --> 01:11.265\n這都跟農業有絕對的相關性我也去看了我們彰化縣農業非常多有志於發展農業科技以及結合綠電以及永續發展的農資農財這樣子相關的發展\n\n01:15.908 --> 01:39.858\n但是我發現了一個非常奇怪的就是當我們的農業要來減碳的時候他一定要有減碳的方法學那我想要請問的是我們彭部長我們目前環境部對於減碳的方法學審理到底需要多久的時間\n\n01:40.994 --> 01:55.866\n保護委員過去的確是比較久但是我們現在過去多久過去可能都要一兩年因為過去比較久但是現在大概我們通過了五個過去多久你說過去我不知清楚但是我們過去這幾個月大概通過了四個方法學\n\n01:56.887 --> 02:10.988\n包括譬如說森林的管理還有這種竹林還有各種的育苗的處理其實已經有五個方法學會那未來呢未來目前譬如說海洋的海藻或是紅樹林也正在申請當中\n\n02:12.113 --> 02:27.824\n因為我覺得這個減碳的方法學對於農民是非常重要的尤其是小農過去我在質詢農委會的時候我們就怎麼樣子把這些方法學因為小農他沒有辦法\n\n02:28.804 --> 02:52.154\n去自己去提出申請那一定是農委會等相關的協助我們整個小農對於整個企業的方法學一定要讓他們有一個可以共同遵循的方向但是在方法學的審理上面即便這個方法學是在農業部這邊是不是\n\n02:54.736 --> 03:12.307\n我跟委員報告我們農業部本身所擬定的現在目前有五個方法學系送到環境部那環境部本身過往是比較慢但是這一年多來這將近一年來其實他們審理的速度大概平均大概是六個月到八個月就可以出來\n\n03:12.907 --> 03:33.277\n那最近的比較重要委員所關切的特別是跟跟作有關的土壤的方法學那現在也已經進到環境部的第二次審查那我們預計審查過的過程裡面有一些需修正的那如果過了以後對於我們農業經營上面的的這些簡單的作為就會很有幫助\n\n03:34.670 --> 04:02.592\n對如果沒有減碳的這個方法學的時候農民怎麼利用減碳去得到就是說除了種植農作物以外的這樣子就是說國際在追求減碳的這個過程當中他們額外的收入那我們知道說目前農民的數量減少但是有青農的加入我們希望青農在加入以後\n\n04:03.212 --> 04:16.731\n可以藉由這種對於農業新興的獲利的方式來協助他們除了在耕種以外能夠藉由碳費能夠得到一筆收入這是我們希望能夠帶來未來\n\n04:18.893 --> 04:37.432\n農業可以永續發展以及結合現在企業要投入永續農業以及ESG相關的作為的時候如果環境部你們的方法學沒有提出的話你們沒有加速審理的話你們都還在這裡局部不前的話那這樣子未來我們農業怎麼發展是不是\n\n04:39.634 --> 04:58.895\n包委員這個是我們非常重視的但是因為我們台灣過去對於農業的方法學是比較陌生的但是現在有在加快但是我也跟委員報告因為我們目前的碳費的價格是只有300塊那其實在這個市場上如果農民來做這個東西其實現在的價值性不高\n\n04:59.375 --> 05:24.593\n那我們未來其實更重要的一環是要推動總量管制的排放交易如果明年下半年我們可以上路的話農民的誘因因為我們台灣的土地相對的農民的土地都比較小所以他要做整個碳匯的價值額外的收入的話其實是成本跟收入不成比例的所以未來我們也會擴大跟農民的再溝通希望能夠來幫助農民在減碳的部分能夠獲得不一樣的收益\n\n05:25.146 --> 05:38.805\n我在這邊跟委員補充就是個別農戶因為他土地面積小就算他得到的碳費本身的減碳的價值是非常低的所以我們已經同步針對這個個體小農去做集結變成集團栽培的經營組去做處理的話\n\n05:41.969 --> 06:08.488\n那樣子他比較得到比較大的量可以跟ESG做結合在第一個部分第二個部分就是委員所關切的其實在彰化有很多葡萄農這些枝條的部分那現在我們農業部也推動了剩餘資源的循環在利用特別是將這些枝條剪下來以後經過粉碎以後變成生殖燃料的生殖燃料棒那這個生殖燃料棒的部分也可以當作一個能源的一個替代\n\n06:09.804 --> 06:17.072\n那我還想要請,謝謝彭部長,我想要請衛福部的邱部長。麻煩請衛福部備詢。\n\n06:20.875 --> 06:44.874\n農業部我們陳部長請等一下我想請問一下就是對於紐西蘭的牛乳進口這個部分其實糯農還是很希望說我們可以維持就是說就是在鮮乳的部分我們希望紐西蘭進口的鮮乳能夠不要加上長效鮮乳這個部分以長效乳來鑄成那\n\n06:49.117 --> 07:17.215\n為什麼衛福部都沒有辦法我是不是可以說明一下現在我們跟衛福部其實針對這個議題討論的非常多那最新的一個共識而且也經過諾能的座談裡面討論的就是未來只要是有鮮乳標章產銷履歷跟CAS的國產乳才能夠標鮮乳國產的鮮乳然後其他的部分包括進口的我們\n\n07:18.055 --> 07:35.917\n修正了相關的經濟部的一個標準局的相關的規範未來的牛乳的話只能分為牛乳、羊乳不能再加先制因為先制本身是一個形容詞它很難去界定說它是幾天以下才叫做先所以未來只有國內生產的牛乳\n\n07:37.385 --> 07:56.122\n國內生產的牛乳而且是要取得我們的證明標章鮮乳證明標章產銷履歷或是CS的那這三個標章是為了讓我們的國內的牛乳本身具有產品的差異化那透過這樣的產品差異化才能夠讓我們的國產牛乳在市面上比較有大的競爭力\n\n07:57.093 --> 08:11.870\n那所以未來紐西蘭或其他國家進口的就不能夠加上鮮嗎?對,根據相關的規定就只能叫做牛奶所以就不會加上鮮乳,就是會排解我們目前就是國內弱農的疑慮是不是?\n\n08:12.791 --> 08:28.741\n我希望說我們相關的作業能夠加速可以嗎因為今年度是因為就是紐西蘭的牛乳他生產並不多那進口的數量也不多那未來如果進口的數量多的話那恐怕會影響國內酪農的相關的生產\n\n08:30.862 --> 08:46.345\n我跟你們提供一個數據,其實紐西蘭進口本身以去年來講是一萬三千多噸那一萬三千多噸裡面有將近一萬噸是薄酒爐的系統其實它紐西蘭本身它鮮乳的進口量只佔它整個進口量的百分之三十\n\n08:47.652 --> 09:03.104\n好那那個邱部長再麻煩你把這個部分就是相關的法律能夠協助好不好好是的好謝謝那我再想要請問一下就是我們經濟部的郭部長農業部衛生部請回\n\n09:15.184 --> 09:38.934\n我剛才那個陳部長他提到了就是農業的減肥其實我昨天排了一個到設計研究院也就是你經濟部所屬的這樣子一個財團法人那我們去看了就是裡面他已經有就是設計好的機台已經把果皮或者是果渣等等\n\n09:39.514 --> 09:53.594\n它可以藉由這樣子一個轉變變成第一個可穿的布料或者是目前作為我們電動車車上的皮料\n\n09:56.678 --> 10:16.289\n那以這樣子的一個研究以及讓我們的循環經濟能夠成為可實現的這樣子的一個方法,那我想要請問一下我們經濟部以及我們行政院是不是應該要大力的支持?\n\n10:17.287 --> 10:43.575\n是的我們經濟部是有支持我們有提供研發投資抵減抵減率大概15%各個產業都可以來申請試用我想請問的是因為其實設計本身是一個產業目前產品的設計以及相關的這是不是也請我們財政部的\n\n10:45.553 --> 10:58.963\n財政部貝雪報告委員我想設計業者從事據一定創新程度的創作這些相關研發的支出也可以申請那麼在修訂設備投資抵檢的子辦法時亦會將設計業所需的AI軟硬體設備或者技術這個抵檢率有5%納入評估\n\n11:10.450 --> 11:25.111\n我是說對於品牌的設計以及對於我們產品製程的相關設計尤其是對於像這樣子農費的再循環利用變成工業的產品的\n\n11:26.833 --> 11:46.378\n相關製程的這樣子的一個研發設計那是不是我們不用透過修法以執法的修訂那就可以把他們納入就是企業的這個投資底檢的這個項目裡面那這樣子郭部長他是大力的支持那莊部長呢\n\n11:47.948 --> 12:01.146\n我想在目前來說相關的法律裡面對原發的支出都已經有投資抵減那在執法規裡面只要在法律的這個法律的上位之下都可以訂定相關的一些細節項目\n\n12:02.908 --> 12:19.744\n因為我們看到了目前台灣他希望能走出自己的品牌我們希望利用自己的產品在世界打出我們自己的品牌我們當然除了半導體以外我們還有非常重要的傳產\n\n12:20.845 --> 12:35.451\n那重要的傳產裡面他們沒有透過這樣子的產品的設計的話他們沒有辦法能夠在國際有自由品牌我想要請問郭部長你知道吧你的過去你的次長\n\n12:36.731 --> 13:02.237\n連錦章市長他現在就在設計研究院裡面當董事長他對於產業界非常熟悉所以他可以把產業界的意見以及我們設計團隊的意見共同結合起來對於台灣的這樣子設計產業的相關的這個共同研發的動力是非常大的\n\n13:02.617 --> 13:11.688\n所以我們經濟部絕對不能夠放棄這樣子的一個項目我們一定要繼續的來培植我們的設計產業我們過去我們有金馬獎\n\n13:18.897 --> 13:22.300\n然後呢現在我們過去我們的戲劇在國際都獲得非常好的成績現在我們的設計也有經典獎我們的設計跟世界上的設計的大獎\n\n13:35.370 --> 14:02.857\n共同都有互相的合作那未來如果可以把台灣產品的設計力能夠展現出來的時候那是不是對於未來台灣不管是在高科技產業或者是在傳產裡面都有相關的協助那現在我們是不是能獲得我們郭部長以及莊部長共同的支持\n\n14:04.154 --> 14:25.585\n報告委員,我們支持設計發展,所以我們編列的還不錯的預算。跟委員報告,我們藉由台灣設計研究院,整合國內的設計相關產業協會,共同來推動。每一年我們投入的經費大概有六億元。\n\n14:26.685 --> 14:34.575\n今年大概114年是6.03億元,主要協助產業設計創新,提高產品的附加價值,藉由補助、輔導措施,協助產業的商品或服務設計價值,以提高產品的附加價值。\n\n14:45.749 --> 15:08.147\n所以委員所垂詢的我們更推動公共服務的設計改善也推動台灣設計國際的推廣因為主要我們希望把台灣能夠重新的定位重新設計台灣是一個團隊的產業我們把它整合成團隊往外服務世界的公民\n\n15:09.039 --> 15:27.155\n六億的預算佔其實我們三兆的總預算裡面非常小的一部分但是其實它發揮了非常大的一個影響力因為它涉及的層面不只我們的公共建設還有公共的政策還有我們的產業面那當然了\n\n15:27.535 --> 15:53.746\n今年度的台灣設計展即將在10月10號到26號在彰化縣舉辦我們也希望行政院跟我們經濟部可以大力的協助好不好是的好謝謝莊部長那我再請教一下我們的郭部長跟我們國發會的我們的劉主委劉主委麻煩請國發會備選\n\n16:07.040 --> 16:32.710\n劉主委國務長覺得那個台積電都不是他的指控師不過你國發會對於台積電有投資你也是他的董事你對他的了解應該很大吧應該還可以啦還可以啊那個我想請問現在台積電即將赴美\n\n16:33.806 --> 16:59.696\n再投資三座,還是五座?六座總共呢?總共六座,再加三座嘛總共六座嘛還有兩個Covas廠那請問,如果未來有六加二座,就是八座在美國那相關的零組件會不會都過去?\n\n17:00.786 --> 17:23.279\n基本上以我個人的立場我希望過去的原因是他有需求如果這個需求被別的國家的人拿走對我們國內的產業是不利的那我們希望讓台灣的產業立足台灣放眼全球我們希望攻城略地讓他們在美國也可以發展進而奪取美國的半導體市場\n\n17:24.868 --> 17:39.476\n所以你希望其他的供應商都過去嗎我也跟委員報告一下我們在半導體的化學材料已經做到純度世界第一所以現在其實美國的大廠也發現台灣的產品的優良也開始跟台灣買\n\n17:40.871 --> 18:05.080\n在沒有台積電的情況下已經有兩家廠商已經到了美國去設廠賣給Intel所以我們希望幫助台灣的產業鏈能夠再放遠全球尤其在兩個部分第一個是材料的部分第二個是設備的部分這是我們目前的短板我們希望讓它進入全球然後放大整個產業的發展這是我們供應鏈韌性的一環但是國內非常多的業者\n\n18:07.870 --> 18:23.369\n會擔心的是如果我們全部都移到美國去了那台灣剩下什麼我們剩下關鍵技術跟最新的製程以及我們的研發能力因為我們會把它留下來\n\n18:24.672 --> 18:39.706\n報告委員不是台灣的產業移到美國去不是我們是工程略進我們是護國神山的周遭我們護國神山都移到美國去了護國神山的周遭也有一些是我們最先進的技術如果只有護國神山去\n\n18:40.186 --> 19:00.920\n我們的技術沒有去他在那邊重新開發會造成回頭跟我們這裡的相關產業變成競爭所以主委的意思是護國神山去我們相關配合的供應鏈產商也要去保持我們永遠在護國神山以及旁邊隨時供應鏈各種供應鏈上的領先地位到底去多少\n\n19:02.200 --> 19:29.853\n這個我要通過何人的評估這個去多少是民間自己的意志我們現在沒辦法評估等他到經濟部申請的時候我們就會很清楚那去了一部分好了那留在台灣的是最關鍵的技術你能確保他會持續的壯大嗎我們要要求所有的廠商保持台灣關鍵領先的地位保持台灣關鍵技術的地位劉主委\n\n19:31.904 --> 19:53.575\n廠商要壯大一定要有市場我說台積電在台灣會繼續壯大嗎?這個葦哲嘉董事長在總統府的記者會講得很清楚在台灣的投資沒有改變他說他缺電跟缺水11個廠沒有改變這他有講得很清楚報告委員這個是這樣子就是說到美國去他生產的不是最先進的\n\n19:54.482 --> 20:10.358\n他希望是最先進的但是台積電他這個公司來講他不可能沒有把握的東西就在那邊生產所以他需要台灣的供應鏈這個也就是說我們總統最近在呼籲的希望把半導體這個供應鏈能夠大家\n\n20:15.083 --> 20:40.462\n有一個聯盟的倡議所以我們現在經濟部就是在幫助台灣的廠商然後再結合國內外的所有半導體供應鏈的廠商能夠在台灣做最先進的研發當研發都落在台灣的時候我相信不管在不一定是在美國全球各地要發展半導體的他一定要來找我們\n\n20:40.762 --> 21:07.520\n那是不是因為在美國的廠那到底有沒有辦法就是說那麼快的生產還是他建廠的過程就會有問題跟委員報告就我個人專業的這個經驗來講蓋一座廠這麼先進的一座廠如果沒有經驗去蓋那麼他肯定要花三年的時間\n\n21:09.158 --> 21:34.745\n那美國也沒有台灣建廠的這樣的一個過去的經驗所以他剛開始蓋第一個廠就像這個魏董事長講的他吃盡苦頭我相信他蓋第二個廠可能會有一些improve不過還是沒有辦法借重台灣的經驗的話所以他才講說那我可能要一千個人過去來協助他順利所以我們可以看得出來\n\n21:35.865 --> 21:50.679\n也就是說他可能四年內他怎麼樣加快速度但是受限於當地的建築開發廠商或者是這些建築廠商是不是有辦法在四年內蓋出來這些廠\n\n21:54.022 --> 22:18.574\n這個是不是那麼容易可以做得到的一件事情那如果我們現在就是連台積電他這樣子的就是一個已經在那裡有廠的公司他都沒有辦法有就是說能夠按照他預期的去蓋廠那未來我們如果有更多的供應鏈過去的時候那我們的廠商是不是\n\n22:19.534 --> 22:40.427\n所以供應鏈它會有選擇,以現在就是說我不一定要在美國生產,我在台灣製造完了以後,然後送到美國去,然後做最後一個製程,最後一個製程很重要,就是說半導體它在捷徑的環境裡面去製造,所以我相信很多的廠商會把LastMile放在那裡做Cleaning,\n\n22:41.067 --> 22:56.465\n所有的Cleaning都是包括Components包括所有的Spareparts包括他穿上Operator所穿的這個無塵衣無塵帽無塵鞋子這一些東西都是需要Cleaning我相信Cleaning的廠商一定會過去\n\n22:57.796 --> 23:11.387\n但是其他的因為任何一個供應鏈的廠商他打開一條生產線是半導體晶圓生產線的十倍大所以對他來講這個量台積電將來在那邊蓋六個廠\n\n23:16.131 --> 23:41.066\n該六個廠的量大概只可以滿足供應鏈一個小廠的生產量所以廠商今天到美國去他沒有義務去他要能夠賺錢他才會去所以我們認為可能會有一些最後的製程最後的需求可能會過去但是那個必須要市場夠大\n\n23:42.327 --> 24:03.565\n但是美國確實太大了這個在亞利桑那下一個它的市場一定是在德州德州那邊有很多半導體的公司但是相距大概有兩千公里所以我在想一般台灣的供應鏈廠商都非常的小型小型的廠商對海外的經驗第一不足\n\n24:04.085 --> 24:30.523\n第二個他的財務也會有困難第三個人才也有限所以你要現在把他帶過去其實沒有那麼簡單即使美國這樣的要求但是我想台灣的供應鏈廠商沒有那麼容易去移動這個是可以跟委員分享的部分所以我們認為台灣的廠商他一定會在重視他有市場的地方才會製造\n\n24:31.724 --> 24:49.933\n但是供應的方法不一定只有在當地製造供應的方法也可能在台灣製造然後透過Logistics運送快速的運送送到滿足客戶的需求這個部分在我們過去的經驗上面都看到這樣的一個結果所以跟委員報告就是說比較專業的報告的話\n\n24:51.434 --> 25:16.851\n我們尊重國內的供應商那麼他們如果有意願去發展這個美國的市場包括我剛才講的可能是生產完了以後可以賣給德州的廠商或者賣給這個華盛頓州的廠商等等但是他要有意願第一個意願他的意願一定建立在他是有獲利的這個情境下才會去那經濟部的立場就是幫助他\n\n25:17.651 --> 25:32.606\n能夠快速的出海快速的落地然後能夠賺錢我要他的目的是他能夠賺到錢所以我們現在經濟部跟美國在談的也就是說不重複課稅也就是說這個不重複課稅不重複課稅雙重課稅談到哪裡了\n\n25:38.411 --> 25:57.947\n現在眾議院已經過了現在在參議院在備那對經濟部來講的話就是幫助廠商能夠很穩健的在美國建立其他生產的態勢所以我想委員關心的這個命題是非常的重要\n\n25:58.487 --> 26:13.793\n但是我們的供應商因為都太小型了小型的供應商非常的多所以他們會衡量自己的能力這裡面包括雖然有市場但是所以沒有能力過去的未來就要瞌睡是不是\n\n26:16.347 --> 26:39.145\n我們現在跟美國在談,另外一方面保護,我們也跟美國在談,是不是在半導體能夠跟台灣一樣,台灣現在在科學園區裡面所有進口的材料、設備、零件等等是免稅的,所以我們也希望美國那邊就這一方面來講,\n\n26:41.107 --> 27:00.307\n他也能夠免稅這個是我想作為我們將來談判的一個非常重要的一個關鍵好那我們知道經濟部也在推動了就是自駕車的相關的計畫在張濱工業區裡面有張濱鹿港觀光的接駁案那我想要請問現在自駕車他除了\n\n27:04.551 --> 27:29.577\n可以在因為張濱工業區裡面他是一個比較人比較稀少的但是有沒有辦法在像彰化市啊像彰化市在八卦山旁邊他交通比較繁忙的區域有沒有可能在這樣子相關的區域做一般來講我們希望不影響這個所有的城市的動作動態所以這個測試呢可以在晚上\n\n27:30.317 --> 27:43.660\n夜間在某一個區塊固定的區塊我們經過公告這個當然要地方政府能夠配合因為畢竟現在已經從電動車要發展成自駕車了這也是未來整個AI的\n\n27:51.662 --> 28:13.714\n就是相關的發展的一個趨勢如果永遠都只有在觀光區在工業區裡面那這樣子就沒有辦法發展成一個他這個需要跟委員報告就是說他在工業區或者在實驗區裡面他有安全的考量所以當你這個智慧城市\n\n28:14.854 --> 28:41.713\n這個周邊配套的都已經完備了以後那麼我們自駕車就放到這個智慧城市的這個區域裡面去進行這個事情我想我們現在有很多的這個配合也就是說每個地方他要做智慧城市的這個開發跟研發那麼我們自駕車當然就是其中的一部分那麼在還沒有得到這個地方政府的配合情況之下自駕車只能在自己的有安全\n\n28:42.855 --> 28:43.257\n無綠的場域裡面來做實驗\n\n28:47.693 --> 29:13.413\n你認為什麼時候我們的自駕車可以發展成在馬路上因為畢竟還有我們的產業什麼時候可以切入自駕車因為現在其實我們知道的我們電動車在發展的過程當中因為零組件的減少導致於我們現在電動車相關的產業大家也面臨到一個生產的瓶頸\n\n29:14.173 --> 29:29.405\n那未來又是自駕車的這樣子一個時代那台灣怎麼切進去那怎麼樣子能夠讓我們就是台灣相關的零組件的廠商能夠及早佈局能夠切入這個相關的這個產業鏈裡面\n\n29:32.112 --> 29:46.507\n報告委員因為台灣的市場其實還不夠大所以我們建議台灣在做自駕車的廠商他要做成EMS也就是說幫人家做代工不是自己的品牌\n\n29:47.108 --> 30:14.936\n但是是共同的它可以生產因為有生產的經濟的量出來以後那麼我們台灣做這些零組件的廠商就會有很大的量它可以降低成本那台灣因為這樣子的話替別人替有品牌的公司來代工製造的話這裡面呢我們可以得到比較高的這個利益因為為什麼因為我們幾乎啊自駕車裡面所用的電子零組件這個都是我們台灣擁有非常高的優勢\n\n30:15.976 --> 30:38.845\n那第二個做EMS代工的這個這個產業在台灣來講已經非常的成熟台灣的EMS會得到世界啊任何的這個有品牌公司的讚許主要是我們具有速度又好謝謝謝依鳳委員的資訊謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝歡迎現在在議場二樓\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.953,"end":10.918,"text":"謝謝院長我想要請卓院長農業部長還有環境部長麻煩請卓院長農業部環境部備選"},{"start":26.517,"end":35.623,"text":"我想要了解一下其實我知道說我們減碳一直是我們政府的目標但是"},{"start":36.874,"end":54.473,"text":"我們看到了對於農民有幫助的在減碳部分因為現在有非常多的企業投入了這樣子SDGs以及我們ESG相關的這樣子的一個發展"},{"start":56.015,"end":71.265,"text":"這都跟農業有絕對的相關性我也去看了我們彰化縣農業非常多有志於發展農業科技以及結合綠電以及永續發展的農資農財這樣子相關的發展"},{"start":75.908,"end":99.858,"text":"但是我發現了一個非常奇怪的就是當我們的農業要來減碳的時候他一定要有減碳的方法學那我想要請問的是我們彭部長我們目前環境部對於減碳的方法學審理到底需要多久的時間"},{"start":100.994,"end":115.866,"text":"保護委員過去的確是比較久但是我們現在過去多久過去可能都要一兩年因為過去比較久但是現在大概我們通過了五個過去多久你說過去我不知清楚但是我們過去這幾個月大概通過了四個方法學"},{"start":116.887,"end":130.988,"text":"包括譬如說森林的管理還有這種竹林還有各種的育苗的處理其實已經有五個方法學會那未來呢未來目前譬如說海洋的海藻或是紅樹林也正在申請當中"},{"start":132.113,"end":147.824,"text":"因為我覺得這個減碳的方法學對於農民是非常重要的尤其是小農過去我在質詢農委會的時候我們就怎麼樣子把這些方法學因為小農他沒有辦法"},{"start":148.804,"end":172.154,"text":"去自己去提出申請那一定是農委會等相關的協助我們整個小農對於整個企業的方法學一定要讓他們有一個可以共同遵循的方向但是在方法學的審理上面即便這個方法學是在農業部這邊是不是"},{"start":174.736,"end":192.307,"text":"我跟委員報告我們農業部本身所擬定的現在目前有五個方法學系送到環境部那環境部本身過往是比較慢但是這一年多來這將近一年來其實他們審理的速度大概平均大概是六個月到八個月就可以出來"},{"start":192.907,"end":213.277,"text":"那最近的比較重要委員所關切的特別是跟跟作有關的土壤的方法學那現在也已經進到環境部的第二次審查那我們預計審查過的過程裡面有一些需修正的那如果過了以後對於我們農業經營上面的的這些簡單的作為就會很有幫助"},{"start":214.67,"end":242.592,"text":"對 如果沒有減碳的這個方法學的時候農民怎麼利用減碳去得到就是說除了種植農作物以外的這樣子就是說國際在追求減碳的這個過程當中他們額外的收入那我們知道說目前農民的數量減少但是有青農的加入我們希望青農在加入以後"},{"start":243.212,"end":256.731,"text":"可以藉由這種對於農業新興的獲利的方式來協助他們除了在耕種以外能夠藉由碳費能夠得到一筆收入這是我們希望能夠帶來未來"},{"start":258.893,"end":277.432,"text":"農業可以永續發展以及結合現在企業要投入永續農業以及ESG相關的作為的時候如果環境部你們的方法學沒有提出的話你們沒有加速審理的話你們都還在這裡局部不前的話那這樣子未來我們農業怎麼發展是不是"},{"start":279.634,"end":298.895,"text":"包委員這個是我們非常重視的但是因為我們台灣過去對於農業的方法學是比較陌生的但是現在有在加快但是我也跟委員報告因為我們目前的碳費的價格是只有300塊那其實在這個市場上如果農民來做這個東西其實現在的價值性不高"},{"start":299.375,"end":324.593,"text":"那我們未來其實更重要的一環是要推動總量管制的排放交易如果明年下半年我們可以上路的話農民的誘因因為我們台灣的土地相對的農民的土地都比較小所以他要做整個碳匯的價值 額外的收入的話其實是成本跟收入不成比例的所以未來我們也會擴大跟農民的再溝通希望能夠來幫助農民在減碳的部分能夠獲得不一樣的收益"},{"start":325.146,"end":338.805,"text":"我在這邊跟委員補充就是個別農戶因為他土地面積小就算他得到的碳費本身的減碳的價值是非常低的所以我們已經同步針對這個個體小農去做集結變成集團栽培的經營組去做處理的話"},{"start":341.969,"end":368.488,"text":"那樣子他比較得到比較大的量可以跟ESG做結合在第一個部分第二個部分就是委員所關切的其實在彰化有很多葡萄農這些枝條的部分那現在我們農業部也推動了剩餘資源的循環在利用特別是將這些枝條剪下來以後經過粉碎以後變成生殖燃料的生殖燃料棒那這個生殖燃料棒的部分也可以當作一個能源的一個替代"},{"start":369.804,"end":377.072,"text":"那我還想要請,謝謝彭部長,我想要請衛福部的邱部長。麻煩請衛福部備詢。"},{"start":380.875,"end":404.874,"text":"農業部我們陳部長請等一下我想請問一下就是對於紐西蘭的牛乳進口這個部分其實糯農還是很希望說我們可以維持就是說就是在鮮乳的部分我們希望紐西蘭進口的鮮乳能夠不要加上長效鮮乳這個部分以長效乳來鑄成那"},{"start":409.117,"end":437.215,"text":"為什麼衛福部都沒有辦法我是不是可以說明一下現在我們跟衛福部其實針對這個議題討論的非常多那最新的一個共識而且也經過諾能的座談裡面討論的就是未來只要是有鮮乳標章產銷履歷跟CAS的國產乳才能夠標鮮乳國產的鮮乳然後其他的部分包括進口的我們"},{"start":438.055,"end":455.917,"text":"修正了相關的經濟部的一個標準局的相關的規範未來的牛乳的話只能分為牛乳、羊乳不能再加先制因為先制本身是一個形容詞它很難去界定說它是幾天以下才叫做先所以未來只有國內生產的牛乳"},{"start":457.385,"end":476.122,"text":"國內生產的牛乳而且是要取得我們的證明標章鮮乳證明標章產銷履歷或是CS的那這三個標章是為了讓我們的國內的牛乳本身具有產品的差異化那透過這樣的產品差異化才能夠讓我們的國產牛乳在市面上比較有大的競爭力"},{"start":477.093,"end":491.87,"text":"那所以未來紐西蘭或其他國家進口的就不能夠加上鮮嗎?對,根據相關的規定就只能叫做牛奶所以就不會加上鮮乳,就是會排解我們目前就是國內弱農的疑慮是不是?"},{"start":492.791,"end":508.741,"text":"我希望說我們相關的作業能夠加速可以嗎因為今年度是因為就是紐西蘭的牛乳他生產並不多那進口的數量也不多那未來如果進口的數量多的話那恐怕會影響國內酪農的相關的生產"},{"start":510.862,"end":526.345,"text":"我跟你們提供一個數據,其實紐西蘭進口本身以去年來講是一萬三千多噸那一萬三千多噸裡面有將近一萬噸是薄酒爐的系統其實它紐西蘭本身它鮮乳的進口量只佔它整個進口量的百分之三十"},{"start":527.652,"end":543.104,"text":"好那那個邱部長再麻煩你把這個部分就是相關的法律能夠協助好不好好是的好謝謝那我再想要請問一下就是我們經濟部的郭部長農業部衛生部請回"},{"start":555.184,"end":578.934,"text":"我剛才那個陳部長他提到了就是農業的減肥其實我昨天排了一個到設計研究院也就是你經濟部所屬的這樣子一個財團法人那我們去看了就是裡面他已經有就是設計好的機台已經把果皮或者是果渣等等"},{"start":579.514,"end":593.594,"text":"它可以藉由這樣子一個轉變變成第一個可穿的布料或者是目前作為我們電動車車上的皮料"},{"start":596.678,"end":616.289,"text":"那以這樣子的一個研究以及讓我們的循環經濟能夠成為可實現的這樣子的一個方法,那我想要請問一下我們經濟部以及我們行政院是不是應該要大力的支持?"},{"start":617.287,"end":643.575,"text":"是的 我們經濟部是有支持我們有提供研發投資抵減 抵減率大概15%各個產業都可以來申請試用我想請問的是因為其實設計本身是一個產業目前產品的設計以及相關的這是不是也請我們財政部的"},{"start":645.553,"end":658.963,"text":"財政部貝雪報告委員 我想設計業者從事據一定創新程度的創作這些相關研發的支出也可以申請那麼在修訂設備投資抵檢的子辦法時亦會將設計業所需的AI軟硬體設備或者技術這個抵檢率有5%納入評估"},{"start":670.45,"end":685.111,"text":"我是說對於品牌的設計以及對於我們產品製程的相關設計尤其是對於像這樣子農費的再循環利用變成工業的產品的"},{"start":686.833,"end":706.378,"text":"相關製程的這樣子的一個研發設計那是不是我們不用透過修法以執法的修訂那就可以把他們納入就是企業的這個投資底檢的這個項目裡面那這樣子郭部長他是大力的支持那莊部長呢"},{"start":707.948,"end":721.146,"text":"我想在目前來說相關的法律裡面對原發的支出都已經有投資抵減那在執法規裡面只要在法律的這個法律的上位之下都可以訂定相關的一些細節項目"},{"start":722.908,"end":739.744,"text":"因為我們看到了目前台灣他希望能走出自己的品牌我們希望利用自己的產品在世界打出我們自己的品牌我們當然除了半導體以外我們還有非常重要的傳產"},{"start":740.845,"end":755.451,"text":"那重要的傳產裡面他們沒有透過這樣子的產品的設計的話他們沒有辦法能夠在國際有自由品牌我想要請問郭部長你知道吧你的過去你的次長"},{"start":756.731,"end":782.237,"text":"連錦章市長他現在就在設計研究院裡面當董事長他對於產業界非常熟悉所以他可以把產業界的意見以及我們設計團隊的意見共同結合起來對於台灣的這樣子設計產業的相關的這個共同研發的動力是非常大的"},{"start":782.617,"end":791.688,"text":"所以我們經濟部絕對不能夠放棄這樣子的一個項目我們一定要繼續的來培植我們的設計產業我們過去我們有金馬獎"},{"start":798.897,"end":802.3,"text":"然後呢現在我們過去我們的戲劇在國際都獲得非常好的成績現在我們的設計也有經典獎我們的設計跟世界上的設計的大獎"},{"start":815.37,"end":842.857,"text":"共同都有互相的合作那未來如果可以把台灣產品的設計力能夠展現出來的時候那是不是對於未來台灣不管是在高科技產業或者是在傳產裡面都有相關的協助那現在我們是不是能獲得我們郭部長以及莊部長共同的支持"},{"start":844.154,"end":865.585,"text":"報告委員,我們支持設計發展,所以我們編列的還不錯的預算。跟委員報告,我們藉由台灣設計研究院,整合國內的設計相關產業協會,共同來推動。每一年我們投入的經費大概有六億元。"},{"start":866.685,"end":874.575,"text":"今年大概114年是6.03億元,主要協助產業設計創新,提高產品的附加價值,藉由補助、輔導措施,協助產業的商品或服務設計價值,以提高產品的附加價值。"},{"start":885.749,"end":908.147,"text":"所以委員所垂詢的我們更推動公共服務的設計改善也推動台灣設計國際的推廣因為主要我們希望把台灣能夠重新的定位重新設計台灣是一個團隊的產業我們把它整合成團隊往外服務世界的公民"},{"start":909.039,"end":927.155,"text":"六億的預算佔其實我們三兆的總預算裡面非常小的一部分但是其實它發揮了非常大的一個影響力因為它涉及的層面不只我們的公共建設還有公共的政策還有我們的產業面那當然了"},{"start":927.535,"end":953.746,"text":"今年度的台灣設計展即將在10月10號到26號在彰化縣舉辦我們也希望行政院跟我們經濟部可以大力的協助好不好是的好 謝謝莊部長那我再請教一下我們的郭部長跟我們國發會的我們的劉主委劉主委麻煩請國發會備選"},{"start":967.04,"end":992.71,"text":"劉主委國務長覺得那個台積電都不是他的指控師不過你國發會對於台積電有投資你也是他的董事你對他的了解應該很大吧應該還可以啦還可以啊那個我想請問現在台積電即將赴美"},{"start":993.806,"end":1019.696,"text":"再投資三座,還是五座?六座總共呢?總共六座,再加三座嘛總共六座嘛還有兩個Covas廠那請問,如果未來有六加二座,就是八座在美國那相關的零組件會不會都過去?"},{"start":1020.786,"end":1043.279,"text":"基本上以我個人的立場我希望過去的原因是他有需求如果這個需求被別的國家的人拿走對我們國內的產業是不利的那我們希望讓台灣的產業立足台灣放眼全球我們希望攻城略地讓他們在美國也可以發展進而奪取美國的半導體市場"},{"start":1044.868,"end":1059.476,"text":"所以你希望其他的供應商都過去嗎我也跟委員報告一下我們在半導體的化學材料已經做到純度世界第一所以現在其實美國的大廠也發現台灣的產品的優良也開始跟台灣買"},{"start":1060.871,"end":1085.08,"text":"在沒有台積電的情況下已經有兩家廠商已經到了美國去設廠賣給Intel所以我們希望幫助台灣的產業鏈能夠再放遠全球尤其在兩個部分第一個是材料的部分第二個是設備的部分這是我們目前的短板我們希望讓它進入全球然後放大整個產業的發展這是我們供應鏈韌性的一環但是國內非常多的業者"},{"start":1087.87,"end":1103.369,"text":"會擔心的是如果我們全部都移到美國去了那台灣剩下什麼我們剩下關鍵技術跟最新的製程以及我們的研發能力因為我們會把它留下來"},{"start":1104.672,"end":1119.706,"text":"報告委員 不是台灣的產業移到美國去 不是我們是工程略進我們是護國神山的周遭我們護國神山都移到美國去了護國神山的周遭也有一些是我們最先進的技術如果只有護國神山去"},{"start":1120.186,"end":1140.92,"text":"我們的技術沒有去他在那邊重新開發會造成回頭跟我們這裡的相關產業變成競爭所以主委的意思是護國神山去我們相關配合的供應鏈產商也要去保持我們永遠在護國神山以及旁邊隨時供應鏈各種供應鏈上的領先地位到底去多少"},{"start":1142.2,"end":1169.853,"text":"這個我要通過何人的評估這個去多少是民間自己的意志我們現在沒辦法評估等他到經濟部申請的時候我們就會很清楚那去了一部分好了那留在台灣的是最關鍵的技術你能確保他會持續的壯大嗎我們要要求所有的廠商保持台灣關鍵領先的地位保持台灣關鍵技術的地位劉主委"},{"start":1171.904,"end":1193.575,"text":"廠商要壯大一定要有市場我說台積電在台灣會繼續壯大嗎?這個葦哲嘉董事長在總統府的記者會講得很清楚在台灣的投資沒有改變他說他缺電跟缺水11個廠沒有改變這他有講得很清楚報告委員這個是這樣子就是說到美國去他生產的不是最先進的"},{"start":1194.482,"end":1210.358,"text":"他希望是最先進的但是台積電他這個公司來講他不可能沒有把握的東西就在那邊生產所以他需要台灣的供應鏈這個也就是說我們總統最近在呼籲的希望把半導體這個供應鏈能夠大家"},{"start":1215.083,"end":1240.462,"text":"有一個聯盟的倡議所以我們現在經濟部就是在幫助台灣的廠商然後再結合國內外的所有半導體供應鏈的廠商能夠在台灣做最先進的研發當研發都落在台灣的時候我相信不管在不一定是在美國全球各地要發展半導體的他一定要來找我們"},{"start":1240.762,"end":1267.52,"text":"那是不是因為在美國的廠那到底有沒有辦法就是說那麼快的生產還是他建廠的過程就會有問題跟委員報告就我個人專業的這個經驗來講蓋一座廠這麼先進的一座廠如果沒有經驗去蓋那麼他肯定要花三年的時間"},{"start":1269.158,"end":1294.745,"text":"那美國也沒有台灣建廠的這樣的一個過去的經驗所以他剛開始蓋第一個廠就像這個魏董事長講的他吃盡苦頭我相信他蓋第二個廠可能會有一些improve不過還是沒有辦法借重台灣的經驗的話所以他才講說那我可能要一千個人過去來協助他順利所以我們可以看得出來"},{"start":1295.865,"end":1310.679,"text":"也就是說他可能四年內他怎麼樣加快速度但是受限於當地的建築開發廠商或者是這些建築廠商是不是有辦法在四年內蓋出來這些廠"},{"start":1314.022,"end":1338.574,"text":"這個是不是那麼容易可以做得到的一件事情那如果我們現在就是連台積電他這樣子的就是一個已經在那裡有廠的公司他都沒有辦法有就是說能夠按照他預期的去蓋廠那未來我們如果有更多的供應鏈過去的時候那我們的廠商是不是"},{"start":1339.534,"end":1360.427,"text":"所以供應鏈它會有選擇,以現在就是說我不一定要在美國生產,我在台灣製造完了以後,然後送到美國去,然後做最後一個製程,最後一個製程很重要,就是說半導體它在捷徑的環境裡面去製造,所以我相信很多的廠商會把Last Mile放在那裡做Cleaning,"},{"start":1361.067,"end":1376.465,"text":"所有的Cleaning都是包括Components包括所有的Spare parts包括他穿上Operator所穿的這個無塵衣無塵帽無塵鞋子這一些東西都是需要Cleaning我相信Cleaning的廠商一定會過去"},{"start":1377.796,"end":1391.387,"text":"但是其他的因為任何一個供應鏈的廠商他打開一條生產線是半導體晶圓生產線的十倍大所以對他來講這個量台積電將來在那邊蓋六個廠"},{"start":1396.131,"end":1421.066,"text":"該六個廠的量大概只可以滿足供應鏈一個小廠的生產量所以廠商今天到美國去他沒有義務去他要能夠賺錢他才會去所以我們認為可能會有一些最後的製程最後的需求可能會過去但是那個必須要市場夠大"},{"start":1422.327,"end":1443.565,"text":"但是美國確實太大了這個在亞利桑那下一個它的市場一定是在德州德州那邊有很多半導體的公司但是相距大概有兩千公里所以我在想一般台灣的供應鏈廠商都非常的小型小型的廠商對海外的經驗第一不足"},{"start":1444.085,"end":1470.523,"text":"第二個他的財務也會有困難第三個人才也有限所以你要現在把他帶過去其實沒有那麼簡單即使美國這樣的要求但是我想台灣的供應鏈廠商沒有那麼容易去移動這個是可以跟委員分享的部分所以我們認為台灣的廠商他一定會在重視他有市場的地方才會製造"},{"start":1471.724,"end":1489.933,"text":"但是供應的方法不一定只有在當地製造供應的方法也可能在台灣製造然後透過Logistics運送快速的運送送到滿足客戶的需求這個部分在我們過去的經驗上面都看到這樣的一個結果所以跟委員報告就是說比較專業的報告的話"},{"start":1491.434,"end":1516.851,"text":"我們尊重國內的供應商那麼他們如果有意願去發展這個美國的市場包括我剛才講的可能是生產完了以後可以賣給德州的廠商或者賣給這個華盛頓州的廠商等等但是他要有意願第一個意願他的意願一定建立在他是有獲利的這個情境下才會去那經濟部的立場就是幫助他"},{"start":1517.651,"end":1532.606,"text":"能夠快速的出海快速的落地然後能夠賺錢我要他的目的是他能夠賺到錢所以我們現在經濟部跟美國在談的也就是說不重複課稅也就是說這個不重複課稅不重複課稅雙重課稅談到哪裡了"},{"start":1538.411,"end":1557.947,"text":"現在眾議院已經過了現在在參議院在備那對經濟部來講的話就是幫助廠商能夠很穩健的在美國建立其他生產的態勢所以我想委員關心的這個命題是非常的重要"},{"start":1558.487,"end":1573.793,"text":"但是我們的供應商因為都太小型了小型的供應商非常的多所以他們會衡量自己的能力這裡面包括雖然有市場但是所以沒有能力過去的未來就要瞌睡是不是"},{"start":1576.347,"end":1599.145,"text":"我們現在跟美國在談,另外一方面保護,我們也跟美國在談,是不是在半導體能夠跟台灣一樣,台灣現在在科學園區裡面所有進口的材料、設備、零件等等是免稅的,所以我們也希望美國那邊就這一方面來講,"},{"start":1601.107,"end":1620.307,"text":"他也能夠免稅這個是我想作為我們將來談判的一個非常重要的一個關鍵好那我們知道經濟部也在推動了就是自駕車的相關的計畫在張濱工業區裡面有張濱鹿港觀光的接駁案那我想要請問現在自駕車他除了"},{"start":1624.551,"end":1649.577,"text":"可以在因為張濱工業區裡面他是一個比較人比較稀少的但是有沒有辦法在像彰化市啊像彰化市在八卦山旁邊他交通比較繁忙的區域有沒有可能在這樣子相關的區域做一般來講我們希望不影響這個所有的城市的動作動態所以這個測試呢可以在晚上"},{"start":1650.317,"end":1663.66,"text":"夜間在某一個區塊固定的區塊我們經過公告這個當然要地方政府能夠配合因為畢竟現在已經從電動車要發展成自駕車了這也是未來整個AI的"},{"start":1671.662,"end":1693.714,"text":"就是相關的發展的一個趨勢如果永遠都只有在觀光區在工業區裡面那這樣子就沒有辦法發展成一個他這個需要跟委員報告就是說他在工業區或者在實驗區裡面他有安全的考量所以當你這個智慧城市"},{"start":1694.854,"end":1721.713,"text":"這個周邊配套的都已經完備了以後那麼我們自駕車就放到這個智慧城市的這個區域裡面去進行這個事情我想我們現在有很多的這個配合也就是說每個地方他要做智慧城市的這個開發跟研發那麼我們自駕車當然就是其中的一部分那麼在還沒有得到這個地方政府的配合情況之下自駕車只能在自己的有安全"},{"start":1722.855,"end":1723.257,"text":"無綠的場域裡面來做實驗"},{"start":1727.693,"end":1753.413,"text":"你認為什麼時候我們的自駕車可以發展成在馬路上因為畢竟還有我們的產業什麼時候可以切入自駕車因為現在其實我們知道的我們電動車在發展的過程當中因為零組件的減少導致於我們現在電動車相關的產業大家也面臨到一個生產的瓶頸"},{"start":1754.173,"end":1769.405,"text":"那未來又是自駕車的這樣子一個時代那台灣怎麼切進去那怎麼樣子能夠讓我們就是台灣相關的零組件的廠商能夠及早佈局能夠切入這個相關的這個產業鏈裡面"},{"start":1772.112,"end":1786.507,"text":"報告委員因為台灣的市場其實還不夠大所以我們建議台灣在做自駕車的廠商他要做成EMS也就是說幫人家做代工不是自己的品牌"},{"start":1787.108,"end":1814.936,"text":"但是是共同的它可以生產因為有生產的經濟的量出來以後那麼我們台灣做這些零組件的廠商就會有很大的量它可以降低成本那台灣因為這樣子的話替別人替有品牌的公司來代工製造的話這裡面呢我們可以得到比較高的這個利益因為為什麼因為我們幾乎啊自駕車裡面所用的電子零組件這個都是我們台灣擁有非常高的優勢"},{"start":1815.976,"end":1838.845,"text":"那第二個做EMS代工的這個這個產業在台灣來講已經非常的成熟台灣的EMS會得到世界啊任何的這個有品牌公司的讚許主要是我們具有速度又好 謝謝謝依鳳委員的資訊謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝歡迎現在在議場二樓"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":553,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時22分）謝謝院長，我想要請卓院長、農業部長，還有環境部長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長、農業部、環境部備詢。"],["謝委員衣鳯：卓院長早安。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想要了解一下，其實我知道減碳一直是我們政府的目標，但是我們看到了對於農民有幫助的，在減碳部分，因為現在有非常多的企業投入了SDG以及ESG相關的發展，這都跟農業有絕對的相關性，我也去看了彰化縣農業非常多有志於發展農業科技、結合綠電以及永續發展的農資、農材，但是我發現了一個非常奇怪的，就是當農業要來減碳的時候，一定要有減碳的方法學。我想要請問的是彭部長，目前環境部對於減碳的方法學審理，到底需要多久的時間？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，過去的確是比較久，但是我們現在……"],["謝委員衣鳯：過去多久？"],["彭部長啓明：過去可能都要一、兩年……"],["謝委員衣鳯：非常久。"],["彭部長啓明：因為過去比較久，但是現在大概我們通過了5個……"],["謝委員衣鳯：過去多久？你說。"],["彭部長啓明：過去我不清楚，但是我們過去這幾個月大概通過了4個方法學。"],["謝委員衣鳯：幾個月？"],["彭部長啓明：包含了森林的管理、竹林，還有各種的育苗的處理，其實已經有5個方法學已經……"],["謝委員衣鳯：那未來呢？"],["彭部長啓明：未來……目前例如海洋的海藻或是紅樹林也正在申請當中。"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為我覺得減碳的方法學對於農民是非常重要的，尤其是小農。過去我在質詢農委會的時候，我們就怎麼樣子把這些方法學……因為小農沒有辦法自己去提出申請，一定是農委會等相關的協助小農，對於整個企業的方法學，一定要讓他們有一個可以共同遵循的方向，但是在方法學的審理上面，即便這個方法學是在農業部這邊，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我跟委員報告，農業部本身所擬定的，目前有5個方法學送到環境部，環境部過往是比較慢，但是將近一年來，其實他們審理的速度平均大概是6個月到8個月就可以出來。最近比較重要、委員所關切的，特別是跟耕作有關的土壤方法學，現在也已經進到環境部的第2次審查，我們預計審查過程裡面有些須修正的，如果過了以後，對於農業經營上面的這些減碳作為就會很有幫助。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對。如果沒有減碳方法學的時候，農民怎麼利用減碳去得到除了種植農作物以外，就是國際在追求減碳的過程當中他們額外的收入，我們知道目前農民的數量減少，但是有青農加入，我們希望青農加入以後，可以藉由這種對於農業新興的獲利方式來協助他們，除了在耕作以外，能夠藉由碳費得到一筆收入，這是我們希望能夠帶來未來農業可以永續發展，以及結合現在企業要投入永續農業與ESG相關作為的時候，如果環境部的方法學沒有提出、沒有加速審理的話，你們都還在這裡舉步不前的話，這樣未來農業怎麼發展？是不是？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個是我們非常重視的，但是因為臺灣過去對於農業的方法學是比較陌生的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：減碳的方法學。"],["彭部長啓明：現在有在加快。但是我也跟委員報告，因為我們目前的碳費價格只有300塊，其實在市場上，如果農民來做這個，現在的價值性不高，我們未來更重要的一環是要推動總量管制的排放交易，如果明年下半年我們可以上路的話，農民的誘因……因為臺灣的土地相對農民的土地都比較小，他要做整個碳匯價值、額外收入的話，其實成本跟收入不成比例的，所以未來我們也會擴大再跟農民溝通，希望來幫助農民在減碳的部分能夠獲得不一樣的收益。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。"],["陳部長駿季：我在這邊再跟委員補充，就是個別農戶因為土地面積小，就算得到碳費，本身的減碳價值是非常低的，所以我們已經同步針對個體小農去集結，變成集團栽培的經營組去處理，那樣他會得到比較大的量，可以跟ESG結合，在第一個部分；第二個部分就是委員所關切的，其實在彰化有很多葡萄農的枝條，現在農業部也推動了剩餘資源的循環再利用，特別是將這些枝條剪下來以後，經過粉碎變成生質燃料棒，這個生質燃料棒也可以當作能源的替代。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝彭部長。我想要請衛福部邱部長。"],["主席：麻煩請衛福部備詢。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想請問一下，對於紐西蘭牛乳進口的部分，其實酪農還是很希望可以維持鮮乳的名稱，紐西蘭進口的鮮乳能夠不要加上「長效鮮乳」，以「長效乳」標示，為什麼衛福部都沒有辦法？"],["陳部長駿季：我是不是可以說明一下？"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。"],["陳部長駿季：現在我們跟衛福部其實針對這個議題討論了非常多，最新的共識而且也經過與酪農座談討論的就是，未來只要是有鮮乳標章、產銷履歷跟CAS等的國產鮮乳才能夠標示為「鮮乳」，然後其他的部分，包括進口的，我們修正了經濟部標準局相關的規範，未來牛乳的話，只能分為牛乳、羊乳，不能再加「鮮」字，因為「鮮」字本身是一個形容詞，它很難界定是幾天以下才叫做「鮮」。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以未來只有國內生產的牛乳？"],["陳部長駿季：國內生產的牛乳，而且是要取得鮮乳證明標章、產銷履歷或是CAS，這三個標章是為了讓國內的牛乳本身具有產品的差異化，透過這樣的產品差異化，才能夠讓國產牛乳在市面上有比較大的競爭力。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以未來紐西蘭或其他國家進口的就不能夠加上「鮮」嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，根據相關的規定，就只能叫做牛奶、牛乳。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以就不會加上鮮乳，就是會排解目前國內酪農的疑慮，是不是？我希望我們的相關作業能夠加速，可以嗎？今年度是因為紐西蘭的牛乳生產並不多，進口的數量也不多，未來如果進口數量多的話，恐怕會影響國內酪農的相關生產。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員提供一個數據，其實紐西蘭進口的以去年來講是一萬三千多噸，一萬三千多噸裡面有將近一萬噸是保久乳的系統，其實紐西蘭的鮮乳進口量只占整個進口量的30%。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。邱部長，再麻煩你協助這個部分的相關法令，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：好，是的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想要再請問一下經濟部的郭部長，謝謝。"],["主席：農業部、衛福部請回。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：剛才陳部長提到農業的減廢，其實我昨天排了一個到台灣設計研究院的考察，也就是經濟部所屬的財團法人，我們去看了，它裡面已經有設計好的機臺，能夠將果皮或是果渣等等藉由轉變，變成可穿的布料或是作為電動車車上的皮料，這樣的研究讓我們的循環經濟能夠成為可實現的方法，我想要請問一下，經濟部以及行政院是不是應該要大力支持？"],["郭部長智輝：是的，經濟部有支持，我們有提供研發投資抵減，抵減率大概15%，各個產業都可以來申請適用。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想請問的是，因為設計本身是一個產業，目前產品的設計以及相關的部分，這是不是也請財政部……"],["主席：麻煩請財政部備詢。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，設計業者從事具一定創新程度的創作，這些相關研發的支出也可以申請，在修訂設備投資抵減的子辦法時，亦會將設計業所需的AI軟硬體設備或者技術納入評估，這部分的抵減率有5%。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。我是說對於品牌的設計以及對於產品製程的相關設計，尤其是對於像這樣的農廢再循環利用，變成工業產品相關製程的研發設計，是不是不用透過修法，以子法的修訂就可以把它納入企業的投資抵減項目裡面？這部分郭部長是大力支持，那莊部長呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前來說，相關法律對於研發支出都已經有投資抵減，在子法規裡面，只要在法律的上位之下，都可以訂定相關的細節項目。"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為我們看到目前臺灣希望能走出自己的品牌，我們希望利用自己的產品在世界打出我們自己的品牌，當然除了半導體以外，我們還有非常重要的傳產，如果沒有透過這樣的產品設計，就沒有辦法在國際有自有品牌。我想要請問郭部長，你知道吧？過去你們的連錦漳次長，他現在就在設計研究院裡面當董事長，他對於產業界非常熟悉，所以他可以把產業界的意見及我們設計團隊的意見共同結合起來，對於臺灣設計產業相關的共同研發動力是非常大的，所以經濟部絕對不能夠放棄這樣的項目，一定要繼續培植我們的設計產業。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：過去我們有金馬獎，過去我們的戲劇在國際都獲得非常好的成績，現在我們的設計也有金點獎，我們的設計跟世界上的設計大獎都有互相的合作，如果可以把臺灣產品的設計力展現出來，未來對於臺灣不管是在高科技產業或者是在傳產裡面都有相關的協助，現在是不是能獲得郭部長以及莊部長共同的支持？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們支持設計發展，所以我們編列還不錯的預算，我們藉由台灣設計研究院整合國內的設計相關產業協會共同來推動，每一年投入的經費大概有6億元，今（114）年是6.03億元，主要協助產業設計創新、提高產品的附加價值，藉由補助、輔導措施協助產業商品或者服務設計價值，以提高產品的附加價值。關於委員所垂詢的，我們推動公共服務的設計改善，也推動臺灣設計在國際的推廣，主要我們希望把臺灣能夠重新定位、重新設計，臺灣是一個團隊的產業，我們把它整合成團隊、往外服務世界的公民。"],["謝委員衣鳯：6億的預算其實占3兆總預算裡面非常小的一部分，但是它發揮了非常大的影響力，因為它涉及的層面不只公共建設，還有公共的政策、還有我們的產業面。今年度的台灣設計展即將於10月10號到26號在彰化縣舉辦，我們也希望行政院跟經濟部可以大力的協助，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝莊部長。","那我再請教一下郭部長跟國發會的劉主委。"],["卓院長榮泰：劉主委。"],["主席：麻煩請國發會備詢。"],["謝委員衣鳯：劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是，委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：郭部長覺得台積電不是他的子公司，不過國發會對於台積電有投資，你也是它的董事，你對它的了解應該很大吧？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：應該還可以。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想請問，現在台積電即將赴美再投資3座，還是5座？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：6座。"],["謝委員衣鳯：6座，總共呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：總共6座，再加3座。"],["謝委員衣鳯：再加3座，總共6座嘛。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：還有2個CoWoS廠。"],["謝委員衣鳯：請問如果未來有6加2座，就是8座在美國，那相關的零組件會不會都過去？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：基本上以我個人的立場，我希望過去的原因是它有需求，如果這個需求被別的國家拿走，對我們國內的產業是不利的，我們希望讓臺灣的產業立足臺灣、放眼全球。我們希望攻城掠地、讓他們在美國也可以發展，進而奪取美國半導體市場的供應鏈。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你希望其他的供應商都過去嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我也跟委員報告一下，我們在半導體的化學材料已經做到純度世界第一，所以現在美國的大廠也發現臺灣產品的優良、也開始跟臺灣買，所以在沒有台積電的情況下，已經有2家廠商到美國設廠，賣給Intel，我們希望幫助臺灣的產業鏈能夠再放遠全球，尤其在兩個部分，第一個是材料的部分，第二個是設備的部分，這是我們目前的短板，希望讓它進入全球，然後放大整個產業發展，這是我們供應鏈韌性的一環。"],["謝委員衣鳯：但是國內非常多的業者會擔心，如果我們全部都移到美國去了，那臺灣剩下什麼？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們剩下關鍵技術、最新的製程，以及我們的研發能力，因為我們會把它留下來。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，不是臺灣的產業移到美國去……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，我們是攻城掠地。"],["郭部長智輝：我們是設分公司。"],["卓院長榮泰：是護國神山的周遭……"],["謝委員衣鳯：護國神山都移到美國去了。"],["卓院長榮泰：護國神山的周遭也有一些是我們最先進的技術，如果只有護國神山去，我們的技術沒有去，它在那邊重新開發，會造成回頭跟我們這裡的相關產業變成競爭，所以主委的意思是護國神山去，我們相關配合的供應鏈廠商也要去，保持我們永遠在護國神山，以及旁邊垂直供應鏈、各種供應鏈上的領先地位。"],["謝委員衣鳯：到底去多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個要去評估。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：去多少是民間自己的意志，我們現在沒辦法評估，等它到經濟部申請的時候，我們就會很清楚。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那去了一部分好了，留在臺灣的是最關鍵的技術，你能確保它會持續的壯大嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要要求所有的廠商保持臺灣關鍵領先的地位、保持臺灣關鍵技術的地位。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對嗎？劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：廠商要壯大一定要有市場。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我說台積電在臺灣會繼續壯大嗎？以及相關的半導體。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：魏哲家董事長在總統府記者會講得很清楚，在臺灣的投資沒有改變……"],["謝委員衣鳯：他說缺電跟缺水。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：11個廠沒有改變，這他有講得很清楚。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，可是他說缺水缺電。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，到美國生產的不是最先進，它希望是最先進，但是台積電這個公司來講，不可能沒有把握的東西就在那邊生產，所以它需要臺灣的供應鏈，這個也就是我們總統最近在呼籲的，希望半導體的供應鏈能夠有一個聯盟的倡議，所以現在經濟部就是在幫助臺灣的廠商，然後再結合國內外所有半導體供應鏈的廠商，能夠在臺灣做最先進的研發，當研發都落在臺灣的時候，不一定是在美國，我相信不管是美國或全球各地要發展半導體，一定要來找我們。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那麼在美國的廠，到底有沒有辦法那麼快的生產？"],["郭部長智輝：不可能。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還是建廠的過程就會有問題？"],["郭部長智輝：跟委員報告，就我個人專業的經驗來講，蓋一座這麼先進的廠，如果沒有經驗去蓋，那麼肯定要花3年的時間，美國過去也沒有臺灣建廠的經驗，所以剛開始蓋第1個廠，就像魏董事長講的，吃盡苦頭，我相信蓋第2個廠可能會有一些improve，不過還是沒有辦法不借重臺灣的經驗，所以他才講可能要1,000個人過去協助它順利進行。由此我們可以看得出來，可能4年內要怎樣加快速度，但是受限於當地開發的廠商，或者建築的廠商，是不是有辦法在4年內蓋出來這些廠？這個不是那麼容易可以做得到的一件事情。"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果現在連台積電這樣一個已經在那裡有廠的公司，都沒有辦法能夠按照預期的去蓋廠，那未來如果有更多的供應鏈過去的時候，我們的廠商是不是……"],["郭部長智輝：所以供應鏈會有選擇，以現在而言，不一定要在美國生產，我在臺灣製造完了以後，然後送到美國去做最後一個製程；最後一個製程很重要，就是半導體在潔淨的環境裡面製造，所以我相信很多廠商會把last mile放在那裡做cleaning，所有的cleaning都是，包括components、包括所有的spare parts，包括他穿上、operator所穿的無塵衣、無塵帽、無塵鞋子，這一些東西都需要cleaning，我相信cleaning的廠商一定會過去，但是其他的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以只有清潔的廠商需要過去……"],["郭部長智輝：因為任何一個供應鏈的廠商大概一條生產線是半導體晶圓生產線的10倍大，所以對它來講，台積電將來在那邊蓋6個廠，蓋那6個廠的量大概只可以滿足供應鏈1個小廠的生產量，所以廠商今天到美國去，它沒有義務去啦！它要能夠賺錢，它才會去，所以我們認為可能會有一些最後的製程、最後的需求會過去，但是必須要市場夠大，但是美國確實太大了，這個在Arizona，它的下一個市場一定是在德州，德州有很多半導體的公司，但是相距大概有2,000公里。一般臺灣的供應鏈廠商都非常的小型，小型的廠商對海外的經驗，第一個、不足；第二個、財務也會有困難；第三個、人才也有限，所以現在要把它帶過去，其實沒有那麼簡單。即使美國這樣要求，但是我想臺灣的供應鏈廠商沒有那麼容易去移動，這個是可以跟委員分享的部分。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。"],["郭部長智輝：我們認為臺灣的廠商一定會重視，有市場的地方才會製造，但是供應的方法不一定只有在當地製造，供應的方法也可能在臺灣製造，然後透過logistics快速的運送，以滿足客戶的需求，這個部分在我們過去的經驗上面，都有看到這樣的結果。","所以跟委員比較專業的報告，我們尊重國內的供應商，他們如果有意願去發展美國的市場，包括我剛才講的，可能是生產完了以後可以賣給德州的廠商，或者賣給華盛頓州的廠商等等，但是它要有意願，第一個、意願，它的意願一定建立在它是有獲利的情境下才會去。那經濟部的立場就是幫助它能夠快速的出海、快速的落地，然後能夠賺錢，我要它的目的是它能夠賺到錢，所以現在經濟部跟美國在談的是不重複課稅，這是第一個。第二個，我們希望……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，不重複課稅，雙重課稅談到哪裡了？"],["郭部長智輝：現在眾議院已經過了，現在在參議院在備。對經濟部來講，就是幫助廠商能夠很穩健的在美國來建立起生產的態勢。我想委員關心的這個命題非常的重要，因為我們的供應商都太小型了，小型的供應商非常的多，所以他們會衡量自己的能力，雖然有市場，但是……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以沒有能力過去的，未來就要課稅，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在跟美國在談另外一方面保護，我們也跟美國在談，是不是半導體能夠跟臺灣一樣。臺灣現在在科學園區裡面所有進口的材料、設備、零件等等是免稅的，所以我們也希望美國那邊就這一方面來講，也能夠免稅。這個是我想作為我們將來談判非常重要的關鍵。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，我們知道經濟部也在推動自駕車的相關計畫，在彰濱工業區裡面有彰濱鹿港觀光的接駁案，我想要請問，現在自駕車除了可以在……因為彰濱工業區是一個人比較稀少的地方，但是有沒有辦法像彰化市八卦山旁邊交通比較繁忙的區域，有沒有可能在這樣相關的區域做試駕？"],["郭部長智輝：一般來講，我們希望不影響所有城市的動態，所以測試可以在晚上、夜間，在某一個夜間、在某一個固定的區塊，我們經過公告，這個當然要地方政府能夠配合，我想自駕車的部分……"],["謝委員衣鳯：畢竟現在已經從電動車要發展成自駕車了，這也是未來整個AI發展的趨勢。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果永遠都只有在觀光區、工業區裡面……"],["郭部長智輝：不會。"],["謝委員衣鳯：這樣子就沒有辦法發展成一個……"],["郭部長智輝：跟委員報告……"],["謝委員衣鳯：什麼時候可以做？"],["郭部長智輝：它在工業區或者是在實驗區裡面有安全的考量，所以當智慧城市周邊配套都已經完備了以後，自駕車就放到智慧城市的區域裡面去進行這個事情，我想現在有很多的配合，也就是每個地方要做智慧城市的開發跟研發，自駕車當然是其中的一部分，在還沒有得到地方政府配合的情況之下，自駕車只能在自己的、安全無慮的場域裡面來做實驗了。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，你認為什麼時候我們的自駕車可以發展成在馬路上，還有我們的產業什麼時候可以切入自駕車？我們知道電動車在發展的過程當中，因為零組件的減少，導致現在電動車相關產業面臨到生產的瓶頸，未來又是自駕車的時代，臺灣怎麼切進去？怎麼讓臺灣相關的零組件廠商能夠及早布局，切入相關的產業鏈裡面？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，因為臺灣的市場其實還不夠大，所以我們建議臺灣在做自駕車的廠商要做成EMS，也就是幫人家代工，不是自己的品牌，但是是共同的，它可以生產。因為有生產經濟的量出來以後，臺灣做這些零組件的廠商就會有很大的量，可以降低成本。臺灣替有品牌的公司來代工製造，可以得到比較高的利益，因為自駕車裡面所用的電子零組件，臺灣幾乎都擁有非常高的優勢。","第二個，做EMS代工的產業，在臺灣來講已經非常的成熟，臺灣的EMS會得到世界任何有品牌公司的讚許，主要是我們具有速度、又具有彈性，彈性跟速度基本上是背道而馳，但是臺灣就同時擁有。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝謝衣鳯委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在議場2樓旁聽的是來自屏東潮州長青協會的好朋友，熱情歡迎。","報告院會，上午的質詢到此為止，本次會議沒有委員提出臨時提案，我們不進行臨時提案的處理。","下午2點30分繼續開會進行質詢，現在休息。","休息（11時53分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","羅美玲","張嘉郡","林楚茵","黃健豪","林岱樺","邱鎮軍","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","廖先翔","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","郭國文","謝龍介","沈伯洋","張智倫","陳雪生"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2025-03-18"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00004","1142601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1142601_00004"}}}