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\"start\": 1830.685, \"end\": 1830.825, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 1830.825, \"end\": 1830.985, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 1830.985, \"end\": 1831.145, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 1831.145, \"end\": 1831.305, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 1831.305, \"end\": 1831.885, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 1831.885, \"end\": 1832.085, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 1832.085, \"end\": 1832.105, \"score\": 0.567}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,569 --> 00:00:18,585\n發言第44位陳雪生委員請質詢謝謝主席是不是請院長卓院長謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:28,871 --> 00:00:57,573\n陳委員好站了一天了,馬上下課了今天本席質詢四個感謝一個抱怨我想感謝先來好了感謝國防部國防部從善如流接受本席的建議對馬祖地區的東營指揮部還有舉光指揮部那麼在113年6月27號核定修正\n\n3\n00:00:59,187 --> 00:01:26,321\n國軍地域加級也是由原來的第三級調整為第二級東營跟舉光我們韓院長也在舉光當過副院長沒水沒電非常的辛苦那麼顧部長這邊從善如流謝謝您把他調整那現在問題來了亮島跟高登\n\n4\n00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:53,488\n亮島院長沒去過我不曉得顧部長去過沒有我去過一個亮島有沒有去過亮島跟高登高登在北竿旁邊距離大陸是最近的一個地區高登大概也只有幾十個人亮島也只有幾十個官兵大概兩個島不足一百個\n\n5\n00:01:54,741 --> 00:02:18,281\n那麼在釀島尤其辛苦我當縣長的時候每次陪同我們地區的指揮官去做軍務視察的時候他去視察我去慰問我一定到肉舖砍兩個豬腳豬腿豬腿送到那邊去他們都是吃罐頭沒有肉吃魚的話也要靠運補上去\n\n6\n00:02:22,250 --> 00:02:46,725\n亮島那邊大概一兩個禮拜才運補一次那裡沒有因為土質都是研盤沒有土質所以他們都是用那個寶特瓶空青菜放在裡面種植一層一層的他們吃的青菜是這樣因為普及的問題所以我在這邊建議是不是能夠把高登亮島由二級改為一級\n\n7\n00:02:47,779 --> 00:03:17,060\n那麼三級改為二級大概差距是兩千兩百一十塊那麼亮島跟高登只有幾十個人幾十個人是不是可以把他調整從二級調整到一級這裡面差八千塊目前亮島跟高登的這個兵員人家都不願意去了如果您的小孩在那邊當兵的話你會體諒到沒水沒電\n\n8\n00:03:18,220 --> 00:03:33,390\n沒有水也沒有電,非常的辛苦幾十個人過去在戰時的時候我一級48年823砲戰十週年老共要做報復我們在民國58年的時候我們全島16歲以上的婦女\n\n9\n00:03:43,137 --> 00:04:09,993\n年輕人不可以離境而且槍彈全部都到位所以非常非常的辛苦我們面對對面一整塊的山群非常的恐懼我們平常都要躲砲彈每天晚上都要躲這個砲彈所以那時候內心的恐懼所以我們一直怕戰爭的爆發所以現在兵兇戰委我想\n\n10\n00:04:10,782 --> 00:04:15,658\n左院長這邊也跟賴總統報告,我們不要贊成,我們希望和平\n\n11\n00:04:17,588 --> 00:04:41,343\n剛剛聽委員談到您對外島的國軍官兵送了一些食物過去我覺得我們應該為國軍弟兄向委員表示致謝我們就是要防衛我們自己,我們走向和平之道才會表示說我們應該加強自己的防衛能力我也希望院長有機會去激勵我們官兵的士氣好不好\n\n12\n00:04:46,274 --> 00:04:48,397\n跟委員報告,現在一級就很難殺\n\n13\n00:04:53,203 --> 00:05:16,782\n我們評估的結果認為高登跟亮島跟南沙地區的交通狀況還是有明顯的差異只是交通差異,問題是阿兵哥到那邊去不能回來啊沒有我想說高登跟亮島之間的交通狀況跟南沙比起來南沙還是艱困許多他們那邊已經比南沙少很多\n\n14\n00:05:17,382 --> 00:05:44,634\n南沙還可以發電種菜在亮島是沒有的請部長回去查一下好不好我想只有幾十個吧只有幾十位的官兵啊這個是不是請部長回去演繹好不好我並沒有說一定要怎麼樣啦我是拜託部長第二件事情就是感謝第二感謝就是北竿長崎拔長它原來是350公尺長那麼希望它現在已經變更為75公尺\n\n15\n00:05:46,926 --> 00:06:16,152\n那麼原來馬防部,馬組防衛部研議啊研議說要五億第一個方案要五億第二個方案要九億其實不需要嘛在北甘島上面不過五百多個兵員你不用回答我多少啦我大概心裡有數五百個兵員長訓的時間不多啊不需要那麼大的一個靶場其實一兩年之內啊他們現在是答應我們說五年之內完成簽件\n\n16\n00:06:17,250 --> 00:06:46,457\n因為他這個在淡黃的地區啊而且聘您國中國小縣立醫院安養中心我們運動場所以部長這一方面拜託您兩千萬足夠了啦現在用步槍的機會很少我想在馬祖啊我在那邊住了幾十年應該用飛彈的機會比較大一點用不到步槍啊但是步槍呢必須我們是一個常備的一個項目\n\n17\n00:06:47,543 --> 00:07:09,071\n所以部長這一方面希望國防部回去五年之內簽件這個允諾你要實現而且拜託不要那麼大的靶場靶場就是打個靶嘛是不是75公尺而已我也會打我們也常常我們在那邊常常接受民防隊訓練每年也是一年打好幾次部長你說好嗎\n\n18\n00:07:10,630 --> 00:07:30,065\n跟委員報告,我想這件事情因為委員長期關心我們現在一方面是調整這個涉及的週期我想這點你也知道每週五天就是只有禮拜一到禮拜五那時段就是八點半到七點半本來今年的元旦元月一號我要躺在靶場上給靶兵打店長說我要保重身體謝謝委員的體諒另外我們現在也做隔音牆\n\n19\n00:07:40,553 --> 00:08:05,150\n已經合撥了這個需求的預算金額所以我們會開標以後我們管制在90個工作天點內把它竣工以後就有效可以來防止噪音好,那繼續我第三個感謝馬祖飛高雄的航線部長你知道馬祖有多少個南部的官兵嗎?有900多位\n\n20\n00:08:06,690 --> 00:08:34,406\n900多位他們回家的路非常辛苦不是坐船就是坐飛機到松山機場還要坐高鐵才能夠到達高雄現在我們已經把這航線已經打開了當然我要感謝中油油罐車幫我們也弄了加油的部分交通部還有華航還有華信還有民航局大家都用了很大的心去做院長你有沒有聽說過\n\n21\n00:08:35,882 --> 00:09:03,328\n哪一家航空公司,我們花蓮也好,台中也好,台中也好,高雄也好,要縣政府補貼的,你們聽過?沒有縣政府補貼,交通部是有補貼的?我們縣政府要補貼,因為他人數不夠的話我們要補貼所以報告院長這一點拜託,還有部長來了我們固定航班時間以後,拜託不要縣政府補貼好不好?馬祖已經沒什麼錢了\n\n22\n00:09:04,540 --> 00:09:26,317\n即使這一次你看看這個財化法通過我一句話都沒講其實我們一般的補助款計畫型的補助款如果中央把我們扣下來我們幾億還不夠用還不夠分配是不是可能我們還倒貼所以對我們來講也不是好事所以我幾乎都沒有聲音我也沒表示意見院長部長在這邊\n\n23\n00:09:28,188 --> 00:09:53,636\n拜託一下不只是我們發展觀光的需求這裡面也是對我們阿兵哥官兵一個生活上的照顧兩位部長也都在能不能協力來完成那麼這個錢不要縣政府出請你們盡量去努力好不好一個月兩個月我們出得起太久的話長年下去的話縣政府你曉得我們財政分級是列第五第五級第六級\n\n24\n00:09:55,337 --> 00:10:06,958\n產生狀況非常的刺激,非常的不好,拜託院長可以嗎?其實其他的航線也都有補貼,你也都很清楚,因為你也常時在關心這個議題\n\n25\n00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:37,450\n那高雄的這個部分我們還是要看他的整體的運量就是說現在華夏航空其實很擔心就是承載量不足他會虧很多所以他會希望有補貼但補貼的金額其實如果是承載量很少的話那個補貼金額還真的是會蠻大的部長其實台灣到馬祖這個航線我們國家本來就是有責任所以台北到馬祖行的便利嘛行的安全嘛對不對本來就有這個責任啊\n\n26\n00:10:38,376 --> 00:11:05,346\n你為什麼說高雄飛金門都可以飛,飛馬祖不能飛沒有道理,飛澎湖也飛而且都大的飛機在飛我們現在小小的一個要求,小小的要求所以拜託部長回去研究一下,看看有什麼經費什麼樣的法令,如果法令有問題我們可以修改可以修正,好不好讓縣政府能夠喘口氣還有就是這個票價前幾天已經開過會了\n\n27\n00:11:07,573 --> 00:11:35,588\n要報到交通部去核定這一點拜託部長回去看他公文馬上把它批了為什麼因為他票價公布以後華信還要排班排班裡面還請部長幫忙一下我據我了解華信很像要排禮拜二但禮拜二的航班因為要配合官兵休假我們除了發展官方這裡面主要是阿兵哥阿兵哥回家日路更近所以希望在禮拜五\n\n28\n00:11:36,431 --> 00:11:47,325\n禮拜五的話他們禮拜六跟禮拜天他有多了兩天因為要精打細算他才有這樣的一個需求請部長能不能夠幫忙一下\n\n29\n00:11:47,991 --> 00:12:12,034\n報告委員這件事您也協調了好多次我們會盡量朝向委員的期望不過華信航空它整體的飛機的量能這個我們也需要考慮到因為也有其他的離島有這樣子的需求華信的董事長原來是華航的總經理他現在已經申出了是華航的董事長那麼他已經辭掉華信董事長的職務了\n\n30\n00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:29,988\n那麼現在華信董事長派了沒有我還不知道,派誰我也不知道我最好能夠派陳雪生的話那我最高興了這個問題不要你解決我就可以處理了但是現在董事長換了我真搞不清楚啊能不能跟華信新的董事長給他切磋一下好不好\n\n31\n00:12:31,104 --> 00:12:58,249\n你不要再笑啊不是,立委不能兼董事長我兼董事長?立委不能兼我不能兼,我辭掉啊你一定是一個稱職的立委不行啦,聽說罷免又要成功,要罷免我欸,院長我24小時,數月匪懈為民服務,我助理請了20幾個啊你不要看我們台中、桃園、台北,到處都是我們的鄉親啊\n\n32\n00:12:59,656 --> 00:13:27,635\n我24小時為他們做便民的服務,徵取經費也是第一名的所以拜託你不要去談罷免的事情我沒有談罷免的事情拜託一下因為說真的我對馬祖的鄉親非常熱愛我也熱愛這塊土地,剩下三年讓我做完好不好這一點跟你懇切的拜託好不好這個很少人在那邊談這個事情,我是第一個\n\n33\n00:13:28,892 --> 00:13:48,709\n第三個就是有關,顧部長請回,這是衛福部的事情第四個感謝衛福部長上任以後,當然他原來當立法委員在我的隔壁我跟他什麼事情,我們兩個如兄如弟\n\n34\n00:13:50,080 --> 00:14:11,426\n我跟他報告什麼事呢電腦斷層我們馬阿祖的緊急醫療後送大概一年有160位那後送過來以後有什麼問題呢電腦斷層醫生看不清楚上傳以後磨磨糊糊重新再造一次所以我們我要求他拜託他給我一個800\n\n35\n00:14:12,904 --> 00:14:39,404\n八百劑量的斷層後來他說我們部立院全部都是一百多切的不能單獨給你馬祖那我也OK不過他也核定了部長謝謝您雖然你沒有做到八百你當立委的時候答應我八百切但你做部長換了位子以後腦袋又換了不過我也不怪你因為全部大家一視同仁要公平那現在也很多民眾提出來說\n\n36\n00:14:41,068 --> 00:15:02,255\n縣立醫院能不能改部立醫院部立醫院的話要部立醫院的規模土地醫生還有儀器醫療設備等等我看需要幾十億當然以馬祖的規格目前金門厚重大概是241個我們一年厚重我們大概最近這三年了最近這三年金門是241我們是160\n\n37\n00:15:05,768 --> 00:15:19,308\n所以說那邊基本上的一些配備,像電腦斷層你給我了嘛這個問題,民眾的問題解決了你不然那邊照一次,這邊再照一次因為看不清楚嘛所以非常感謝我們衛福部長\n\n38\n00:15:20,953 --> 00:15:47,870\n有關部立醫院如果你不成立部立醫院的話起碼一些基本的配備需求神經內科神經外科還有我們腦袋現在心梗心臟心臟的問題也蠻多的後送過來心梗所以請部長能不能對這一方面再加強再注重一下,可不可以報告委員我幾件事情\n\n39\n00:15:48,760 --> 00:16:11,267\n我回答一下第一個就是說有關電腦斷層其實同步那個時期澎湖醫院也是設立了128間的電腦斷層其實它是再加上現在的AI的一個處理可以把影片處理到非常的清楚所以請委員放心以後我們那邊的醫師朋友所照的\n\n40\n00:16:12,655 --> 00:16:33,712\n回到台灣絕對不需要再重複照重複照我再找你嘛好不好而且這可以電腦的傳遞資訊所以這個部分沒有問題至於說在強調連江縣馬祖這個部分尤其在連江縣我們從幾個角度第一個人才的培育醫療器材的一個加強\n\n41\n00:16:35,980 --> 00:17:00,465\n還有整體的醫療費用的提升,其實都是給予馬祖、給予連江縣最大的努力我想這個部分在幾戶方面也是給予家層加了30%、50%我們兩個人不談政治,我們是兄弟就跟周越南一樣,我們也是好朋友,也是跟兄弟如兄如弟一樣\n\n42\n00:17:01,465 --> 00:17:27,924\n我也敬佩,我也不會跟你們爭一張嘴啦對這個連江縣的縣民長期的關心我們一定不管我在過去或者是在現在因為那邊太多醫師的朋友了我們一樣都希望他們有一個好的醫療環境來把我們的縣民照顧好謝謝部長好不好你請回,謝謝院長,那現在我要談到我的抱怨我要談到馬祖大俏\n\n43\n00:17:31,547 --> 00:18:00,383\n我還有應該算算不到三年的時間任期就要屆滿了我的年齡也應該差不多了這個馬祖大橋我每天都在關心這個事情從107年我們賴總統時任院長的時候我到行政院找他他馬上就把它批了,綜合規劃他就批了批了以後交通部速度也很快\n\n44\n00:18:01,038 --> 00:18:18,404\n折騰公路總局馬上做計畫110年其中報告就出來了送到行政院110年送到行政院以後不停的行政院秘書處還有國發會交通部這個公文一直轉來轉去那個效率實在\n\n45\n00:18:26,721 --> 00:18:41,352\n我非常驚人,抓了112年,一整年我不知道躺在誰的桌子上,我看不到也追蹤不到好,112年不見了後來報到113年到國發會國發會說送到英國\n\n46\n00:18:54,059 --> 00:19:21,892\n這個殷商奧亞納工程顧問公司做第三方的認證認證什麼呢認證技術有沒有問題認證技術有沒有問題那已經也回來了啊技術也沒問題啊我想賴總統時任院長的時候對我們馬祖大家有承諾喔他的攸關馬祖未來百年發展大街的橋是馬祖人應得的大橋案在自己的手中推動\n\n47\n00:19:22,677 --> 00:19:42,789\n一定全力促成這是他第一次的承諾然後賴總統也到縣地去會勘這個南北岸大橋大概3.1公里長他預計要8年完工賴總統也表示經費不是問題當然現在這個經費一直到288億我有一件事情我要拜託\n\n48\n00:19:54,031 --> 00:20:19,296\n這個公文輾轉來輾轉去那前幾天在院會的時候我也跟卓院長報告卓院長說一直沒看到這個案子我就非常震驚啊這麼重要的事情我在立法院每一年每一次都在總諮詢的時候向院長提出來\n\n49\n00:20:21,004 --> 00:20:49,471\n爭取南北岸跨海大橋也就是馬祖大橋但是院長說不知道沒看到公文我非常的驚訝我是說這個公文跑哪裡去了這麼重要的事情賴總統親口答應的事情而且院長我也口頭跟你報告好幾次但你就看不到這公文所以這公文一直在國發會交通部一直在秘書長行政院秘書處那邊一直在打轉\n\n50\n00:20:51,377 --> 00:21:15,915\n我想我不曉得什麼時候才能看到院長讓您看到我要親自拿去給你看嗎我跟委員報告這個工程當然是複雜而且挑戰性很大經過國內國外的工程顧問做了很多的評估目前委員剛剛所說經費達到288億其實上他已經再度修正已經提高到392億\n\n51\n00:21:20,765 --> 00:21:40,586\n金門機場評估的時候,我們馬祖機場剛剛評估的時候說要幾百億後來十幾億,十幾二十億我們馬祖南港機場做起來啦所以你不要聽那個啦,你要不想幫我做的話你說這個大橋啊,評估要兩千億因為它有南港機場存廢的問題北港機場要\n\n52\n00:21:44,130 --> 00:22:03,201\n修整建的問題,還有大橋的問題,整個合起來談我們還聽到有不同的聲音,主要是現在修正到392億所以我們必須要重新再修正392億誰修正的?是世西嗎?我不曉得是誰修正的?國發會有這樣的專家嗎?他沒有經過一個細部的設計,沒有經過建設計畫的啟動\n\n53\n00:22:10,097 --> 00:22:31,725\n他怎麼知道是那麼多億咧?所以我們現在看到的是這樣一個初步的一個概算所以我希望他重新院內還在重新再也不是用含的也不是用吹的一定要詳細精算部長您知道是300多億嗎?你聽過嗎?這個部分我們要回去再了解一下\n\n54\n00:22:32,288 --> 00:22:55,407\n不是現在了解,這是你公路總局在精算的公路總局委託4C工程設計公司在弄的4C是我們國內頂尖的這段時間確實整個工程的經費一直在上升委員長期一直關心這個做大橋所以我要跟你報告的是現在最新的發展跟進度不是我是說院長你聽誰講的,誰跟你報告的\n\n55\n00:22:57,809 --> 00:23:18,776\n哪一個單位跟你報告呢你回答我好不好哪一個單位跟你報告呢這個是在院內的公文我們綜合起來算他一個概算之後要有人算嘛總是要有人算啦1加1等於2總要有人算出來嘛不是我現在我們還在內部在要求重新核定這個數字為什麼會從288億會漲到390億我想這是馬祖人未來的夢他這個跟機場一定要結合\n\n56\n00:23:27,478 --> 00:23:56,477\n欄杆機場要把它停掉欄杆機場的跑道頭端太危險了我每次坐飛機回去我家裡面試試過我每次飛機降落我都怕尤其飛機重飛的時候多恐怖你知道嗎很恐怖你不要造成人命理由再來檢討問題就為時已晚太慢了我希望我身為立法委員我身為馬拉圖的立法委員我一定要在中央來發聲拜託懇求院長回去\n\n57\n00:23:57,741 --> 00:24:20,178\n馬上把他進入建設計畫讓他去做細部設計讓細部設計出來因為前面的綜合規劃已經花了1億5千萬了已經花了1億5千萬了所以我剛剛有報告北竿機場的改善這工程的規劃南竿機場的存廢問題南竿機場一定要這個馬祖大橋現在重新修正出來這麼392億的這個預算我們要把它做一個\n\n58\n00:24:27,967 --> 00:24:55,210\n你看前院長,蘇貞昌院長,他錢不是問題賴清德院長,錢不是問題390而已就390而已嘛你桃園一個地鐵,從空中變成地下,600億元你都花了,是不是?難道跟一張離島你不重視嗎?而且我們不是一次到位8年的時程,一年花三五十億,我其他的錢可以不要你這個財化法怎麼錢,我一毛錢都不要\n\n59\n00:24:55,990 --> 00:25:22,212\n拜託這個事情嘛,一年啊法律就是不是您要不要我們也可以說大家都不要,但是不行這樣說不要我不用也可以嘛,是不是我可以不用嗎?是不是我們陷入到一個非常不穩定的中央與地方的財政的劃分的一個狀態裡面下那如果這個合定的是300多億,那到底是中央還是地方我們不要爭議時啦,我們要爭千秋馬祖這個大橋啊,馬祖大橋\n\n60\n00:25:25,626 --> 00:25:49,529\n在朱院長手上批渴在賴總統手上核定我們會感謝你們的好不好我們馬祖真的你看我有介入政黨的問題嗎有跟你談政治的問題嗎我從來沒有我從來沒有有責難過行政院嗎也從來沒有好不好我想院長希望趕快進入建設計畫剛才我不停的質詢您就是說\n\n61\n00:25:50,478 --> 00:26:19,968\n你的消息從哪裡來的?你的數字是怎麼出來的?你講個五百億,講個一千億,你就把我砍臼了嘛,是不是?這樣是沒有道理,對我是不公平的啊你到底是誰算出來?如果世襲算出來,需要五百、一千億我給你下跪算啦我太口氣而已,是不是?但是不是這樣嘛你不聽國發會裡面的人,隨便算一下就出來了是不是?我不曉得他是哪裡算出來的這個拜託院長好不好\n\n62\n00:26:20,675 --> 00:26:35,123\n讓他進入建設計畫讓他進入建設計畫我卸任的話我死也瞑目啊對不對,我陳宇人有努力過,我有衝刺過我不要讓人家講我陳宇人你在騙人人家說我在騙人啊,說我在騙人啊\n\n63\n00:26:35,788 --> 00:26:49,102\n是不是,我沒有騙我的民眾,我很努力在工作我覺得今天把現在最新的發展跟委員報告,委員也可以跟鄉親說明,那目前我們再重新檢討那個數字是虛無縹緲了\n\n64\n00:26:51,485 --> 00:27:06,992\n是空中樓格誰算出來的委員我說明一下因為這個深度達到60米是全球也少見的所以我們送到英國去以後呢然後重新的檢討也同時重新檢討你花500萬給英國算你找英國誰算\n\n65\n00:27:08,593 --> 00:27:28,640\n你給他付薪水都不夠,他有到馬祖來過嗎?有看過水深是多深嗎?我上次有跟委員報告過,我們是建立在世新的規劃書上面的基礎因為他已經規劃得很完整我們只是去驗證這樣的一個深度,國內沒有經驗然後看看國外有沒有這樣的經驗你建設計畫花不了多少錢?院長\n\n66\n00:27:32,526 --> 00:27:42,777\n後面有多少錢?你把建設計畫裡面細色、詳細弄出來,那才是叫數字啊,是不是?你國發會有這樣的人才嗎?你海洋大學畢業,你就可以講說300億、500億、800億所以我們送到英國去,請英國的專家來寫證\n\n67\n00:27:54,629 --> 00:28:09,325\n英國人有講要400多億嗎?英國的專家至少他們比較有經驗看到國外的經驗,因為我們國內沒有這樣的經驗世新也沒有這樣的經驗所以我們要再次的驗證,我們追蹤世新的專業但是我們希望再經過第二次的驗證國內的技術\n\n68\n00:28:16,941 --> 00:28:35,495\n專家你不去聽,外國約量比較遠委員我們這樣是在保障馬祖元的安全五百萬是什麼?五百萬在英國眼中是什麼?是不是OB是什麼錢你知道嗎?所以拜託,院長這個幫我們進入建設計畫我想行政院秘書長今天也有來秘書長\n\n69\n00:28:36,260 --> 00:29:03,528\n拜託一下好不好你送上去給院長看嘛送上去給總統批嘛好不好你不能在那邊跟我這樣子講包括我本人主委部長我們都有掌握這個狀況新的發展你也可以講說五百億啊一千億啊沒有沒有這絕對不是空口亂講你國發會有沒有在那胡扯八道國發會有這樣的專家你把專家拿出來給我看誰啊這是透過專業的一個評估但是我就是從頭再來看這樣的評估到底準確如何\n\n70\n00:29:05,809 --> 00:29:27,416\n還有離島建設基金剩下8.86億我歷史跟陳玉珍委員還有楊耀維諸君你們說隨時撥補問你剩下8.86億你一年要花掉3億起碼吧你到現在怎麼辦很多案子到你們那邊可能就停擺了那離島基金就沒了嘛\n\n71\n00:29:29,008 --> 00:29:53,222\n委員我們現在是一年編列酒業的預算但是我們今年被砍掉了6%在大院你回去檢討一下,現在時間還剩下55秒小山通啊,拜託一下他們說團過來,我們又再阻止他團現在不來了馬祖街道冷冷清清啊真的所有旅館全部空蕩蕩的\n\n72\n00:29:54,451 --> 00:30:22,014\n民運部聊生所以請院長交通部有機會過去看一看陸委會這邊也謝謝我們邱主委很關心我們真的都給我們跟大陸盡量不要吵架了這樣弄下去我的心情被你們搞亂了我立委都不想幹了不要說罷免我最好今天就辭職算了我都幹不下去啦你知道嗎我都幹不下去啦院長你覺得陳遠勝這個兄弟\n\n73\n00:30:23,342 --> 00:30:32,105\n你要我留在立法院還是要我離開請你多支持我好不好請你今天結束以後多休息你多支持啊今天\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n569\t18585\t發言第44位陳雪生委員請質詢謝謝主席是不是請院長 卓院長 謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n28871\t57573\t陳委員好站了一天了,馬上下課了今天本席質詢四個感謝一個抱怨我想感謝先來好了感謝國防部國防部從善如流接受本席的建議對馬祖地區的東營指揮部還有舉光指揮部那麼在113年6月27號核定修正\n59187\t86321\t國軍地域加級也是由原來的第三級調整為第二級東營跟舉光我們韓院長也在舉光當過副院長沒水沒電非常的辛苦那麼顧部長這邊從善如流謝謝您把他調整那現在問題來了亮島跟高登\n87000\t113488\t亮島院長沒去過我不曉得顧部長去過沒有我去過一個亮島有沒有去過亮島跟高登高登在北竿旁邊距離大陸是最近的一個地區高登大概也只有幾十個人亮島也只有幾十個官兵大概兩個島不足一百個\n114741\t138281\t那麼在釀島尤其辛苦我當縣長的時候每次陪同我們地區的指揮官去做軍務視察的時候他去視察我去慰問我一定到肉舖砍兩個豬腳豬腿豬腿送到那邊去他們都是吃罐頭沒有肉吃魚的話也要靠運補上去\n142250\t166725\t亮島那邊大概一兩個禮拜才運補一次那裡沒有因為土質都是研盤沒有土質所以他們都是用那個寶特瓶空青菜放在裡面種植一層一層的他們吃的青菜是這樣因為普及的問題所以我在這邊建議是不是能夠把高登亮島由二級改為一級\n167779\t197060\t那麼三級改為二級大概差距是兩千兩百一十塊那麼亮島跟高登只有幾十個人幾十個人是不是可以把他調整從二級調整到一級這裡面差八千塊目前亮島跟高登的這個兵員人家都不願意去了如果您的小孩在那邊當兵的話你會體諒到沒水沒電\n198220\t213390\t沒有水也沒有電,非常的辛苦幾十個人過去在戰時的時候我一級48年823砲戰十週年老共要做報復我們在民國58年的時候我們全島16歲以上的婦女\n223137\t249993\t年輕人不可以離境而且槍彈全部都到位所以非常非常的辛苦我們面對對面一整塊的山群非常的恐懼我們平常都要躲砲彈每天晚上都要躲這個砲彈所以那時候內心的恐懼所以我們一直怕戰爭的爆發所以現在兵兇戰委我想\n250782\t255658\t左院長這邊也跟賴總統報告,我們不要贊成,我們希望和平\n257588\t281343\t剛剛聽委員談到您對外島的國軍官兵送了一些食物過去我覺得我們應該為國軍弟兄向委員表示致謝我們就是要防衛我們自己,我們走向和平之道才會表示說我們應該加強自己的防衛能力我也希望院長有機會去激勵我們官兵的士氣好不好\n286274\t288397\t跟委員報告,現在一級就很難殺\n293203\t316782\t我們評估的結果認為高登跟亮島跟南沙地區的交通狀況還是有明顯的差異只是交通差異,問題是阿兵哥到那邊去不能回來啊沒有我想說高登跟亮島之間的交通狀況跟南沙比起來南沙還是艱困許多他們那邊已經比南沙少很多\n317382\t344634\t南沙還可以發電種菜在亮島是沒有的請部長回去查一下好不好我想只有幾十個吧只有幾十位的官兵啊這個是不是請部長回去演繹好不好我並沒有說一定要怎麼樣啦我是拜託部長第二件事情就是感謝第二感謝就是北竿長崎拔長它原來是350公尺長那麼希望它現在已經變更為75公尺\n346926\t376152\t那麼原來馬防部,馬組防衛部研議啊研議說要五億第一個方案要五億第二個方案要九億其實不需要嘛在北甘島上面不過五百多個兵員你不用回答我多少啦我大概心裡有數五百個兵員長訓的時間不多啊不需要那麼大的一個靶場其實一兩年之內啊他們現在是答應我們說五年之內完成簽件\n377250\t406457\t因為他這個在淡黃的地區啊而且聘您國中國小縣立醫院安養中心我們運動場所以部長這一方面拜託您兩千萬足夠了啦現在用步槍的機會很少我想在馬祖啊我在那邊住了幾十年應該用飛彈的機會比較大一點用不到步槍啊但是步槍呢必須我們是一個常備的一個項目\n407543\t429071\t所以部長這一方面希望國防部回去五年之內簽件這個允諾你要實現而且拜託不要那麼大的靶場靶場就是打個靶嘛是不是75公尺而已我也會打我們也常常我們在那邊常常接受民防隊訓練每年也是一年打好幾次部長你說好嗎\n430630\t450065\t跟委員報告,我想這件事情因為委員長期關心我們現在一方面是調整這個涉及的週期我想這點你也知道每週五天就是只有禮拜一到禮拜五那時段就是八點半到七點半本來今年的元旦元月一號我要躺在靶場上給靶兵打店長說我要保重身體謝謝委員的體諒另外我們現在也做隔音牆\n460553\t485150\t已經合撥了這個需求的預算金額所以我們會開標以後我們管制在90個工作天點內把它竣工以後就有效可以來防止噪音好,那繼續我第三個感謝馬祖飛高雄的航線部長你知道馬祖有多少個南部的官兵嗎?有900多位\n486690\t514406\t900多位他們回家的路非常辛苦不是坐船就是坐飛機到松山機場還要坐高鐵才能夠到達高雄現在我們已經把這航線已經打開了當然我要感謝中油油罐車幫我們也弄了加油的部分交通部還有華航還有華信還有民航局大家都用了很大的心去做院長你有沒有聽說過\n515882\t543328\t哪一家航空公司,我們花蓮也好,台中也好,台中也好,高雄也好,要縣政府補貼的,你們聽過?沒有縣政府補貼,交通部是有補貼的?我們縣政府要補貼,因為他人數不夠的話我們要補貼所以報告院長這一點拜託,還有部長來了我們固定航班時間以後,拜託不要縣政府補貼好不好?馬祖已經沒什麼錢了\n544540\t566317\t即使這一次你看看這個財化法通過我一句話都沒講其實我們一般的補助款計畫型的補助款如果中央把我們扣下來我們幾億還不夠用還不夠分配是不是可能我們還倒貼所以對我們來講也不是好事所以我幾乎都沒有聲音我也沒表示意見院長部長在這邊\n568188\t593636\t拜託一下不只是我們發展觀光的需求這裡面也是對我們阿兵哥官兵一個生活上的照顧兩位部長也都在能不能協力來完成那麼這個錢不要縣政府出請你們盡量去努力好不好一個月兩個月我們出得起太久的話長年下去的話縣政府你曉得我們財政分級是列第五第五級第六級\n595337\t606958\t產生狀況非常的刺激,非常的不好,拜託院長可以嗎?其實其他的航線也都有補貼,你也都很清楚,因為你也常時在關心這個議題\n608120\t637450\t那高雄的這個部分我們還是要看他的整體的運量就是說現在華夏航空其實很擔心就是承載量不足他會虧很多所以他會希望有補貼但補貼的金額其實如果是承載量很少的話那個補貼金額還真的是會蠻大的部長其實台灣到馬祖這個航線我們國家本來就是有責任所以台北到馬祖行的便利嘛行的安全嘛對不對本來就有這個責任啊\n638376\t665346\t你為什麼說高雄飛金門都可以飛,飛馬祖不能飛沒有道理,飛澎湖也飛而且都大的飛機在飛我們現在小小的一個要求,小小的要求所以拜託部長回去研究一下,看看有什麼經費什麼樣的法令,如果法令有問題我們可以修改可以修正,好不好讓縣政府能夠喘口氣還有就是這個票價前幾天已經開過會了\n667573\t695588\t要報到交通部去核定這一點拜託部長回去看他公文馬上把它批了為什麼因為他票價公布以後華信還要排班排班裡面還請部長幫忙一下我據我了解華信很像要排禮拜二但禮拜二的航班因為要配合官兵休假我們除了發展官方這裡面主要是阿兵哥阿兵哥回家日路更近所以希望在禮拜五\n696431\t707325\t禮拜五的話他們禮拜六跟禮拜天他有多了兩天因為要精打細算他才有這樣的一個需求請部長能不能夠幫忙一下\n707991\t732034\t報告委員這件事您也協調了好多次我們會盡量朝向委員的期望不過華信航空它整體的飛機的量能這個我們也需要考慮到因為也有其他的離島有這樣子的需求華信的董事長原來是華航的總經理他現在已經申出了是華航的董事長那麼他已經辭掉華信董事長的職務了\n733120\t749988\t那麼現在華信董事長派了沒有我還不知道,派誰我也不知道我最好能夠派陳雪生的話那我最高興了這個問題不要你解決我就可以處理了但是現在董事長換了我真搞不清楚啊能不能跟華信新的董事長給他切磋一下好不好\n751104\t778249\t你不要再笑啊不是,立委不能兼董事長我兼董事長?立委不能兼我不能兼,我辭掉啊你一定是一個稱職的立委不行啦,聽說罷免又要成功,要罷免我欸,院長我24小時,數月匪懈為民服務,我助理請了20幾個啊你不要看我們台中、桃園、台北,到處都是我們的鄉親啊\n779656\t807635\t我24小時為他們做便民的服務,徵取經費也是第一名的所以拜託你不要去談罷免的事情我沒有談罷免的事情拜託一下因為說真的我對馬祖的鄉親非常熱愛我也熱愛這塊土地,剩下三年讓我做完好不好這一點跟你懇切的拜託好不好這個很少人在那邊談這個事情,我是第一個\n808892\t828709\t第三個就是有關,顧部長請回,這是衛福部的事情第四個感謝衛福部長上任以後,當然他原來當立法委員在我的隔壁我跟他什麼事情,我們兩個如兄如弟\n830080\t851426\t我跟他報告什麼事呢電腦斷層我們馬阿祖的緊急醫療後送大概一年有160位那後送過來以後有什麼問題呢電腦斷層醫生看不清楚上傳以後磨磨糊糊重新再造一次所以我們我要求他拜託他給我一個800\n852904\t879404\t八百劑量的斷層後來他說我們部立院全部都是一百多切的不能單獨給你馬祖那我也OK不過他也核定了部長謝謝您雖然你沒有做到八百你當立委的時候答應我八百切但你做部長換了位子以後腦袋又換了不過我也不怪你因為全部大家一視同仁要公平那現在也很多民眾提出來說\n881068\t902255\t縣立醫院能不能改部立醫院部立醫院的話要部立醫院的規模土地醫生還有儀器醫療設備等等我看需要幾十億當然以馬祖的規格目前金門厚重大概是241個我們一年厚重我們大概最近這三年了最近這三年金門是241我們是160\n905768\t919308\t所以說那邊基本上的一些配備,像電腦斷層你給我了嘛這個問題,民眾的問題解決了你不然那邊照一次,這邊再照一次因為看不清楚嘛所以非常感謝我們衛福部長\n920953\t947870\t有關部立醫院如果你不成立部立醫院的話起碼一些基本的配備需求神經內科神經外科還有我們腦袋現在心梗心臟心臟的問題也蠻多的後送過來心梗所以請部長能不能對這一方面再加強再注重一下,可不可以報告委員我幾件事情\n948760\t971267\t我回答一下 第一個就是說有關電腦斷層其實同步那個時期澎湖醫院也是設立了128間的電腦斷層其實它是再加上現在的AI的一個處理可以把影片處理到非常的清楚所以請委員放心以後我們那邊的醫師朋友所照的\n972655\t993712\t回到台灣絕對不需要再重複照重複照我再找你嘛好不好而且這可以電腦的傳遞資訊所以這個部分沒有問題至於說在強調連江縣馬祖這個部分尤其在連江縣我們從幾個角度第一個人才的培育醫療器材的一個加強\n995980\t1020465\t還有整體的醫療費用的提升,其實都是給予馬祖、給予連江縣最大的努力我想這個部分在幾戶方面也是給予家層加了30%、50%我們兩個人不談政治,我們是兄弟就跟周越南一樣,我們也是好朋友,也是跟兄弟如兄如弟一樣\n1021465\t1047924\t我也敬佩,我也不會跟你們爭一張嘴啦對這個連江縣的縣民長期的關心我們一定不管我在過去或者是在現在因為那邊太多醫師的朋友了我們一樣都希望他們有一個好的醫療環境來把我們的縣民照顧好謝謝部長好不好你請回,謝謝院長,那現在我要談到我的抱怨我要談到馬祖大俏\n1051547\t1080383\t我還有應該算算不到三年的時間任期就要屆滿了我的年齡也應該差不多了這個馬祖大橋我每天都在關心這個事情從107年我們賴總統時任院長的時候我到行政院找他他馬上就把它批了,綜合規劃他就批了批了以後交通部速度也很快\n1081038\t1098404\t折騰公路總局馬上做計畫110年其中報告就出來了送到行政院110年送到行政院以後不停的行政院秘書處還有國發會交通部這個公文一直轉來轉去那個效率實在\n1106721\t1121352\t我非常驚人,抓了112年,一整年我不知道躺在誰的桌子上,我看不到也追蹤不到好,112年不見了後來報到113年到國發會國發會說送到英國\n1134059\t1161892\t這個殷商奧亞納工程顧問公司做第三方的認證認證什麼呢認證技術有沒有問題認證技術有沒有問題那已經也回來了啊技術也沒問題啊我想賴總統時任院長的時候對我們馬祖大家有承諾喔他的攸關馬祖未來百年發展大街的橋是馬祖人應得的大橋案在自己的手中推動\n1162677\t1182789\t一定全力促成這是他第一次的承諾然後賴總統也到縣地去會勘這個南北岸大橋大概3.1公里長他預計要8年完工賴總統也表示經費不是問題當然現在這個經費一直到288億我有一件事情我要拜託\n1194031\t1219296\t這個公文輾轉來輾轉去那前幾天在院會的時候我也跟卓院長報告卓院長說一直沒看到這個案子我就非常震驚啊這麼重要的事情我在立法院每一年每一次都在總諮詢的時候向院長提出來\n1221004\t1249471\t爭取南北岸跨海大橋也就是馬祖大橋但是院長說不知道沒看到公文我非常的驚訝我是說這個公文跑哪裡去了這麼重要的事情賴總統親口答應的事情而且院長我也口頭跟你報告好幾次但你就看不到這公文所以這公文一直在國發會交通部一直在秘書長行政院秘書處那邊一直在打轉\n1251377\t1275915\t我想我不曉得什麼時候才能看到院長讓您看到我要親自拿去給你看嗎我跟委員報告這個工程當然是複雜而且挑戰性很大經過國內國外的工程顧問做了很多的評估目前委員剛剛所說經費達到288億其實上他已經再度修正已經提高到392億\n1280765\t1300586\t金門機場評估的時候,我們馬祖機場剛剛評估的時候說要幾百億後來十幾億,十幾二十億我們馬祖南港機場做起來啦所以你不要聽那個啦,你要不想幫我做的話你說這個大橋啊,評估要兩千億因為它有南港機場存廢的問題北港機場要\n1304130\t1323201\t修整建的問題,還有大橋的問題,整個合起來談我們還聽到有不同的聲音,主要是現在修正到392億所以我們必須要重新再修正392億誰修正的?是世西嗎?我不曉得是誰修正的?國發會有這樣的專家嗎?他沒有經過一個細部的設計,沒有經過建設計畫的啟動\n1330097\t1351725\t他怎麼知道是那麼多億咧?所以我們現在看到的是這樣一個初步的一個概算所以我希望他重新院內還在重新再也不是用含的也不是用吹的一定要詳細精算部長您知道是300多億嗎?你聽過嗎?這個部分我們要回去再了解一下\n1352288\t1375407\t不是現在了解,這是你公路總局在精算的公路總局委託4C工程設計公司在弄的4C是我們國內頂尖的這段時間確實整個工程的經費一直在上升委員長期一直關心這個做大橋所以我要跟你報告的是現在最新的發展跟進度不是我是說院長你聽誰講的,誰跟你報告的\n1377809\t1398776\t哪一個單位跟你報告呢你回答我好不好哪一個單位跟你報告呢這個是在院內的公文我們綜合起來算他一個概算之後要有人算嘛總是要有人算啦1加1等於2總要有人算出來嘛不是我現在我們還在內部在要求重新核定這個數字為什麼會從288億會漲到390億我想這是馬祖人未來的夢他這個跟機場一定要結合\n1407478\t1436477\t欄杆機場要把它停掉欄杆機場的跑道頭端太危險了我每次坐飛機回去我家裡面試試過我每次飛機降落我都怕尤其飛機重飛的時候多恐怖你知道嗎很恐怖你不要造成人命理由再來檢討問題就為時已晚太慢了我希望我身為立法委員我身為馬拉圖的立法委員我一定要在中央來發聲拜託懇求院長回去\n1437741\t1460178\t馬上把他進入建設計畫讓他去做細部設計讓細部設計出來因為前面的綜合規劃已經花了1億5千萬了已經花了1億5千萬了所以我剛剛有報告北竿機場的改善這工程的規劃南竿機場的存廢問題南竿機場一定要這個馬祖大橋現在重新修正出來這麼392億的這個預算我們要把它做一個\n1467967\t1495210\t你看前院長,蘇貞昌院長,他錢不是問題賴清德院長,錢不是問題390而已就390而已嘛你桃園一個地鐵,從空中變成地下,600億元你都花了,是不是?難道跟一張離島你不重視嗎?而且我們不是一次到位8年的時程,一年花三五十億,我其他的錢可以不要你這個財化法怎麼錢,我一毛錢都不要\n1495990\t1522212\t拜託這個事情嘛,一年啊法律就是不是您要不要我們也可以說大家都不要,但是不行這樣說不要我不用也可以嘛,是不是我可以不用嗎?是不是我們陷入到一個非常不穩定的中央與地方的財政的劃分的一個狀態裡面下那如果這個合定的是300多億,那到底是中央還是地方我們不要爭議時啦,我們要爭千秋馬祖這個大橋啊,馬祖大橋\n1525626\t1549529\t在朱院長手上批渴在賴總統手上核定我們會感謝你們的好不好我們馬祖真的你看我有介入政黨的問題嗎有跟你談政治的問題嗎我從來沒有我從來沒有有責難過行政院嗎也從來沒有好不好我想院長希望趕快進入建設計畫剛才我不停的質詢您就是說\n1550478\t1579968\t你的消息從哪裡來的?你的數字是怎麼出來的?你講個五百億,講個一千億,你就把我砍臼了嘛,是不是?這樣是沒有道理,對我是不公平的啊你到底是誰算出來?如果世襲算出來,需要五百、一千億我給你下跪算啦我太口氣而已,是不是?但是不是這樣嘛你不聽國發會裡面的人,隨便算一下就出來了是不是?我不曉得他是哪裡算出來的這個拜託院長好不好\n1580675\t1595123\t讓他進入建設計畫讓他進入建設計畫我卸任的話我死也瞑目啊對不對,我陳宇人有努力過,我有衝刺過我不要讓人家講我陳宇人你在騙人人家說我在騙人啊,說我在騙人啊\n1595788\t1609102\t是不是,我沒有騙我的民眾,我很努力在工作我覺得今天把現在最新的發展跟委員報告,委員也可以跟鄉親說明,那目前我們再重新檢討那個數字是虛無縹緲了\n1611485\t1626992\t是空中樓格誰算出來的委員我說明一下因為這個深度達到60米是全球也少見的所以我們送到英國去以後呢然後重新的檢討也同時重新檢討你花500萬給英國算你找英國誰算\n1628593\t1648640\t你給他付薪水都不夠,他有到馬祖來過嗎?有看過水深是多深嗎?我上次有跟委員報告過,我們是建立在世新的規劃書上面的基礎因為他已經規劃得很完整我們只是去驗證這樣的一個深度,國內沒有經驗然後看看國外有沒有這樣的經驗你建設計畫花不了多少錢?院長\n1652526\t1662777\t後面有多少錢?你把建設計畫裡面細色、詳細弄出來,那才是叫數字啊,是不是?你國發會有這樣的人才嗎?你海洋大學畢業,你就可以講說300億、500億、800億所以我們送到英國去,請英國的專家來寫證\n1674629\t1689325\t英國人有講要400多億嗎?英國的專家至少他們比較有經驗看到國外的經驗,因為我們國內沒有這樣的經驗世新也沒有這樣的經驗所以我們要再次的驗證,我們追蹤世新的專業但是我們希望再經過第二次的驗證國內的技術\n1696941\t1715495\t專家你不去聽,外國約量比較遠委員我們這樣是在保障馬祖元的安全五百萬是什麼?五百萬在英國眼中是什麼?是不是OB是什麼錢你知道嗎?所以拜託,院長這個幫我們進入建設計畫我想行政院秘書長今天也有來秘書長\n1716260\t1743528\t拜託一下好不好你送上去給院長看嘛 送上去給總統批嘛好不好你不能在那邊跟我這樣子講包括我本人 主委 部長我們都有掌握這個狀況 新的發展你也可以講說五百億啊 一千億啊沒有沒有 這絕對不是空口亂講你國發會有沒有在那胡扯八道國發會有這樣的專家 你把專家拿出來給我看誰啊這是透過專業的一個評估 但是我就是從頭再來看這樣的評估到底準確如何\n1745809\t1767416\t還有離島建設基金剩下8.86億我歷史跟陳玉珍委員還有楊耀維諸君你們說隨時撥補問你剩下8.86億你一年要花掉3億起碼吧你到現在怎麼辦很多案子到你們那邊可能就停擺了那離島基金就沒了嘛\n1769008\t1793222\t委員我們現在是一年編列酒業的預算但是我們今年被砍掉了6%在大院你回去檢討一下,現在時間還剩下55秒小山通啊,拜託一下他們說團過來,我們又再阻止他團現在不來了馬祖街道冷冷清清啊真的所有旅館全部空蕩蕩的\n1794451\t1822014\t民運部聊生所以請院長交通部有機會過去看一看陸委會這邊也謝謝我們邱主委很關心我們真的都給我們跟大陸盡量不要吵架了這樣弄下去我的心情被你們搞亂了我立委都不想幹了不要說罷免我最好今天就辭職算了我都幹不下去啦你知道嗎我都幹不下去啦院長你覺得陳遠勝這個兄弟\n1823342\t1832105\t你要我留在立法院還是要我離開請你多支持我好不好請你今天結束以後多休息你多支持啊今天\n","txt":"發言第44位陳雪生委員請質詢謝謝主席是不是請院長 卓院長 謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n陳委員好站了一天了,馬上下課了今天本席質詢四個感謝一個抱怨我想感謝先來好了感謝國防部國防部從善如流接受本席的建議對馬祖地區的東營指揮部還有舉光指揮部那麼在113年6月27號核定修正\n國軍地域加級也是由原來的第三級調整為第二級東營跟舉光我們韓院長也在舉光當過副院長沒水沒電非常的辛苦那麼顧部長這邊從善如流謝謝您把他調整那現在問題來了亮島跟高登\n亮島院長沒去過我不曉得顧部長去過沒有我去過一個亮島有沒有去過亮島跟高登高登在北竿旁邊距離大陸是最近的一個地區高登大概也只有幾十個人亮島也只有幾十個官兵大概兩個島不足一百個\n那麼在釀島尤其辛苦我當縣長的時候每次陪同我們地區的指揮官去做軍務視察的時候他去視察我去慰問我一定到肉舖砍兩個豬腳豬腿豬腿送到那邊去他們都是吃罐頭沒有肉吃魚的話也要靠運補上去\n亮島那邊大概一兩個禮拜才運補一次那裡沒有因為土質都是研盤沒有土質所以他們都是用那個寶特瓶空青菜放在裡面種植一層一層的他們吃的青菜是這樣因為普及的問題所以我在這邊建議是不是能夠把高登亮島由二級改為一級\n那麼三級改為二級大概差距是兩千兩百一十塊那麼亮島跟高登只有幾十個人幾十個人是不是可以把他調整從二級調整到一級這裡面差八千塊目前亮島跟高登的這個兵員人家都不願意去了如果您的小孩在那邊當兵的話你會體諒到沒水沒電\n沒有水也沒有電,非常的辛苦幾十個人過去在戰時的時候我一級48年823砲戰十週年老共要做報復我們在民國58年的時候我們全島16歲以上的婦女\n年輕人不可以離境而且槍彈全部都到位所以非常非常的辛苦我們面對對面一整塊的山群非常的恐懼我們平常都要躲砲彈每天晚上都要躲這個砲彈所以那時候內心的恐懼所以我們一直怕戰爭的爆發所以現在兵兇戰委我想\n左院長這邊也跟賴總統報告,我們不要贊成,我們希望和平\n剛剛聽委員談到您對外島的國軍官兵送了一些食物過去我覺得我們應該為國軍弟兄向委員表示致謝我們就是要防衛我們自己,我們走向和平之道才會表示說我們應該加強自己的防衛能力我也希望院長有機會去激勵我們官兵的士氣好不好\n跟委員報告,現在一級就很難殺\n我們評估的結果認為高登跟亮島跟南沙地區的交通狀況還是有明顯的差異只是交通差異,問題是阿兵哥到那邊去不能回來啊沒有我想說高登跟亮島之間的交通狀況跟南沙比起來南沙還是艱困許多他們那邊已經比南沙少很多\n南沙還可以發電種菜在亮島是沒有的請部長回去查一下好不好我想只有幾十個吧只有幾十位的官兵啊這個是不是請部長回去演繹好不好我並沒有說一定要怎麼樣啦我是拜託部長第二件事情就是感謝第二感謝就是北竿長崎拔長它原來是350公尺長那麼希望它現在已經變更為75公尺\n那麼原來馬防部,馬組防衛部研議啊研議說要五億第一個方案要五億第二個方案要九億其實不需要嘛在北甘島上面不過五百多個兵員你不用回答我多少啦我大概心裡有數五百個兵員長訓的時間不多啊不需要那麼大的一個靶場其實一兩年之內啊他們現在是答應我們說五年之內完成簽件\n因為他這個在淡黃的地區啊而且聘您國中國小縣立醫院安養中心我們運動場所以部長這一方面拜託您兩千萬足夠了啦現在用步槍的機會很少我想在馬祖啊我在那邊住了幾十年應該用飛彈的機會比較大一點用不到步槍啊但是步槍呢必須我們是一個常備的一個項目\n所以部長這一方面希望國防部回去五年之內簽件這個允諾你要實現而且拜託不要那麼大的靶場靶場就是打個靶嘛是不是75公尺而已我也會打我們也常常我們在那邊常常接受民防隊訓練每年也是一年打好幾次部長你說好嗎\n跟委員報告,我想這件事情因為委員長期關心我們現在一方面是調整這個涉及的週期我想這點你也知道每週五天就是只有禮拜一到禮拜五那時段就是八點半到七點半本來今年的元旦元月一號我要躺在靶場上給靶兵打店長說我要保重身體謝謝委員的體諒另外我們現在也做隔音牆\n已經合撥了這個需求的預算金額所以我們會開標以後我們管制在90個工作天點內把它竣工以後就有效可以來防止噪音好,那繼續我第三個感謝馬祖飛高雄的航線部長你知道馬祖有多少個南部的官兵嗎?有900多位\n900多位他們回家的路非常辛苦不是坐船就是坐飛機到松山機場還要坐高鐵才能夠到達高雄現在我們已經把這航線已經打開了當然我要感謝中油油罐車幫我們也弄了加油的部分交通部還有華航還有華信還有民航局大家都用了很大的心去做院長你有沒有聽說過\n哪一家航空公司,我們花蓮也好,台中也好,台中也好,高雄也好,要縣政府補貼的,你們聽過?沒有縣政府補貼,交通部是有補貼的?我們縣政府要補貼,因為他人數不夠的話我們要補貼所以報告院長這一點拜託,還有部長來了我們固定航班時間以後,拜託不要縣政府補貼好不好?馬祖已經沒什麼錢了\n即使這一次你看看這個財化法通過我一句話都沒講其實我們一般的補助款計畫型的補助款如果中央把我們扣下來我們幾億還不夠用還不夠分配是不是可能我們還倒貼所以對我們來講也不是好事所以我幾乎都沒有聲音我也沒表示意見院長部長在這邊\n拜託一下不只是我們發展觀光的需求這裡面也是對我們阿兵哥官兵一個生活上的照顧兩位部長也都在能不能協力來完成那麼這個錢不要縣政府出請你們盡量去努力好不好一個月兩個月我們出得起太久的話長年下去的話縣政府你曉得我們財政分級是列第五第五級第六級\n產生狀況非常的刺激,非常的不好,拜託院長可以嗎?其實其他的航線也都有補貼,你也都很清楚,因為你也常時在關心這個議題\n那高雄的這個部分我們還是要看他的整體的運量就是說現在華夏航空其實很擔心就是承載量不足他會虧很多所以他會希望有補貼但補貼的金額其實如果是承載量很少的話那個補貼金額還真的是會蠻大的部長其實台灣到馬祖這個航線我們國家本來就是有責任所以台北到馬祖行的便利嘛行的安全嘛對不對本來就有這個責任啊\n你為什麼說高雄飛金門都可以飛,飛馬祖不能飛沒有道理,飛澎湖也飛而且都大的飛機在飛我們現在小小的一個要求,小小的要求所以拜託部長回去研究一下,看看有什麼經費什麼樣的法令,如果法令有問題我們可以修改可以修正,好不好讓縣政府能夠喘口氣還有就是這個票價前幾天已經開過會了\n要報到交通部去核定這一點拜託部長回去看他公文馬上把它批了為什麼因為他票價公布以後華信還要排班排班裡面還請部長幫忙一下我據我了解華信很像要排禮拜二但禮拜二的航班因為要配合官兵休假我們除了發展官方這裡面主要是阿兵哥阿兵哥回家日路更近所以希望在禮拜五\n禮拜五的話他們禮拜六跟禮拜天他有多了兩天因為要精打細算他才有這樣的一個需求請部長能不能夠幫忙一下\n報告委員這件事您也協調了好多次我們會盡量朝向委員的期望不過華信航空它整體的飛機的量能這個我們也需要考慮到因為也有其他的離島有這樣子的需求華信的董事長原來是華航的總經理他現在已經申出了是華航的董事長那麼他已經辭掉華信董事長的職務了\n那麼現在華信董事長派了沒有我還不知道,派誰我也不知道我最好能夠派陳雪生的話那我最高興了這個問題不要你解決我就可以處理了但是現在董事長換了我真搞不清楚啊能不能跟華信新的董事長給他切磋一下好不好\n你不要再笑啊不是,立委不能兼董事長我兼董事長?立委不能兼我不能兼,我辭掉啊你一定是一個稱職的立委不行啦,聽說罷免又要成功,要罷免我欸,院長我24小時,數月匪懈為民服務,我助理請了20幾個啊你不要看我們台中、桃園、台北,到處都是我們的鄉親啊\n我24小時為他們做便民的服務,徵取經費也是第一名的所以拜託你不要去談罷免的事情我沒有談罷免的事情拜託一下因為說真的我對馬祖的鄉親非常熱愛我也熱愛這塊土地,剩下三年讓我做完好不好這一點跟你懇切的拜託好不好這個很少人在那邊談這個事情,我是第一個\n第三個就是有關,顧部長請回,這是衛福部的事情第四個感謝衛福部長上任以後,當然他原來當立法委員在我的隔壁我跟他什麼事情,我們兩個如兄如弟\n我跟他報告什麼事呢電腦斷層我們馬阿祖的緊急醫療後送大概一年有160位那後送過來以後有什麼問題呢電腦斷層醫生看不清楚上傳以後磨磨糊糊重新再造一次所以我們我要求他拜託他給我一個800\n八百劑量的斷層後來他說我們部立院全部都是一百多切的不能單獨給你馬祖那我也OK不過他也核定了部長謝謝您雖然你沒有做到八百你當立委的時候答應我八百切但你做部長換了位子以後腦袋又換了不過我也不怪你因為全部大家一視同仁要公平那現在也很多民眾提出來說\n縣立醫院能不能改部立醫院部立醫院的話要部立醫院的規模土地醫生還有儀器醫療設備等等我看需要幾十億當然以馬祖的規格目前金門厚重大概是241個我們一年厚重我們大概最近這三年了最近這三年金門是241我們是160\n所以說那邊基本上的一些配備,像電腦斷層你給我了嘛這個問題,民眾的問題解決了你不然那邊照一次,這邊再照一次因為看不清楚嘛所以非常感謝我們衛福部長\n有關部立醫院如果你不成立部立醫院的話起碼一些基本的配備需求神經內科神經外科還有我們腦袋現在心梗心臟心臟的問題也蠻多的後送過來心梗所以請部長能不能對這一方面再加強再注重一下,可不可以報告委員我幾件事情\n我回答一下 第一個就是說有關電腦斷層其實同步那個時期澎湖醫院也是設立了128間的電腦斷層其實它是再加上現在的AI的一個處理可以把影片處理到非常的清楚所以請委員放心以後我們那邊的醫師朋友所照的\n回到台灣絕對不需要再重複照重複照我再找你嘛好不好而且這可以電腦的傳遞資訊所以這個部分沒有問題至於說在強調連江縣馬祖這個部分尤其在連江縣我們從幾個角度第一個人才的培育醫療器材的一個加強\n還有整體的醫療費用的提升,其實都是給予馬祖、給予連江縣最大的努力我想這個部分在幾戶方面也是給予家層加了30%、50%我們兩個人不談政治,我們是兄弟就跟周越南一樣,我們也是好朋友,也是跟兄弟如兄如弟一樣\n我也敬佩,我也不會跟你們爭一張嘴啦對這個連江縣的縣民長期的關心我們一定不管我在過去或者是在現在因為那邊太多醫師的朋友了我們一樣都希望他們有一個好的醫療環境來把我們的縣民照顧好謝謝部長好不好你請回,謝謝院長,那現在我要談到我的抱怨我要談到馬祖大俏\n我還有應該算算不到三年的時間任期就要屆滿了我的年齡也應該差不多了這個馬祖大橋我每天都在關心這個事情從107年我們賴總統時任院長的時候我到行政院找他他馬上就把它批了,綜合規劃他就批了批了以後交通部速度也很快\n折騰公路總局馬上做計畫110年其中報告就出來了送到行政院110年送到行政院以後不停的行政院秘書處還有國發會交通部這個公文一直轉來轉去那個效率實在\n我非常驚人,抓了112年,一整年我不知道躺在誰的桌子上,我看不到也追蹤不到好,112年不見了後來報到113年到國發會國發會說送到英國\n這個殷商奧亞納工程顧問公司做第三方的認證認證什麼呢認證技術有沒有問題認證技術有沒有問題那已經也回來了啊技術也沒問題啊我想賴總統時任院長的時候對我們馬祖大家有承諾喔他的攸關馬祖未來百年發展大街的橋是馬祖人應得的大橋案在自己的手中推動\n一定全力促成這是他第一次的承諾然後賴總統也到縣地去會勘這個南北岸大橋大概3.1公里長他預計要8年完工賴總統也表示經費不是問題當然現在這個經費一直到288億我有一件事情我要拜託\n這個公文輾轉來輾轉去那前幾天在院會的時候我也跟卓院長報告卓院長說一直沒看到這個案子我就非常震驚啊這麼重要的事情我在立法院每一年每一次都在總諮詢的時候向院長提出來\n爭取南北岸跨海大橋也就是馬祖大橋但是院長說不知道沒看到公文我非常的驚訝我是說這個公文跑哪裡去了這麼重要的事情賴總統親口答應的事情而且院長我也口頭跟你報告好幾次但你就看不到這公文所以這公文一直在國發會交通部一直在秘書長行政院秘書處那邊一直在打轉\n我想我不曉得什麼時候才能看到院長讓您看到我要親自拿去給你看嗎我跟委員報告這個工程當然是複雜而且挑戰性很大經過國內國外的工程顧問做了很多的評估目前委員剛剛所說經費達到288億其實上他已經再度修正已經提高到392億\n金門機場評估的時候,我們馬祖機場剛剛評估的時候說要幾百億後來十幾億,十幾二十億我們馬祖南港機場做起來啦所以你不要聽那個啦,你要不想幫我做的話你說這個大橋啊,評估要兩千億因為它有南港機場存廢的問題北港機場要\n修整建的問題,還有大橋的問題,整個合起來談我們還聽到有不同的聲音,主要是現在修正到392億所以我們必須要重新再修正392億誰修正的?是世西嗎?我不曉得是誰修正的?國發會有這樣的專家嗎?他沒有經過一個細部的設計,沒有經過建設計畫的啟動\n他怎麼知道是那麼多億咧?所以我們現在看到的是這樣一個初步的一個概算所以我希望他重新院內還在重新再也不是用含的也不是用吹的一定要詳細精算部長您知道是300多億嗎?你聽過嗎?這個部分我們要回去再了解一下\n不是現在了解,這是你公路總局在精算的公路總局委託4C工程設計公司在弄的4C是我們國內頂尖的這段時間確實整個工程的經費一直在上升委員長期一直關心這個做大橋所以我要跟你報告的是現在最新的發展跟進度不是我是說院長你聽誰講的,誰跟你報告的\n哪一個單位跟你報告呢你回答我好不好哪一個單位跟你報告呢這個是在院內的公文我們綜合起來算他一個概算之後要有人算嘛總是要有人算啦1加1等於2總要有人算出來嘛不是我現在我們還在內部在要求重新核定這個數字為什麼會從288億會漲到390億我想這是馬祖人未來的夢他這個跟機場一定要結合\n欄杆機場要把它停掉欄杆機場的跑道頭端太危險了我每次坐飛機回去我家裡面試試過我每次飛機降落我都怕尤其飛機重飛的時候多恐怖你知道嗎很恐怖你不要造成人命理由再來檢討問題就為時已晚太慢了我希望我身為立法委員我身為馬拉圖的立法委員我一定要在中央來發聲拜託懇求院長回去\n馬上把他進入建設計畫讓他去做細部設計讓細部設計出來因為前面的綜合規劃已經花了1億5千萬了已經花了1億5千萬了所以我剛剛有報告北竿機場的改善這工程的規劃南竿機場的存廢問題南竿機場一定要這個馬祖大橋現在重新修正出來這麼392億的這個預算我們要把它做一個\n你看前院長,蘇貞昌院長,他錢不是問題賴清德院長,錢不是問題390而已就390而已嘛你桃園一個地鐵,從空中變成地下,600億元你都花了,是不是?難道跟一張離島你不重視嗎?而且我們不是一次到位8年的時程,一年花三五十億,我其他的錢可以不要你這個財化法怎麼錢,我一毛錢都不要\n拜託這個事情嘛,一年啊法律就是不是您要不要我們也可以說大家都不要,但是不行這樣說不要我不用也可以嘛,是不是我可以不用嗎?是不是我們陷入到一個非常不穩定的中央與地方的財政的劃分的一個狀態裡面下那如果這個合定的是300多億,那到底是中央還是地方我們不要爭議時啦,我們要爭千秋馬祖這個大橋啊,馬祖大橋\n在朱院長手上批渴在賴總統手上核定我們會感謝你們的好不好我們馬祖真的你看我有介入政黨的問題嗎有跟你談政治的問題嗎我從來沒有我從來沒有有責難過行政院嗎也從來沒有好不好我想院長希望趕快進入建設計畫剛才我不停的質詢您就是說\n你的消息從哪裡來的?你的數字是怎麼出來的?你講個五百億,講個一千億,你就把我砍臼了嘛,是不是?這樣是沒有道理,對我是不公平的啊你到底是誰算出來?如果世襲算出來,需要五百、一千億我給你下跪算啦我太口氣而已,是不是?但是不是這樣嘛你不聽國發會裡面的人,隨便算一下就出來了是不是?我不曉得他是哪裡算出來的這個拜託院長好不好\n讓他進入建設計畫讓他進入建設計畫我卸任的話我死也瞑目啊對不對,我陳宇人有努力過,我有衝刺過我不要讓人家講我陳宇人你在騙人人家說我在騙人啊,說我在騙人啊\n是不是,我沒有騙我的民眾,我很努力在工作我覺得今天把現在最新的發展跟委員報告,委員也可以跟鄉親說明,那目前我們再重新檢討那個數字是虛無縹緲了\n是空中樓格誰算出來的委員我說明一下因為這個深度達到60米是全球也少見的所以我們送到英國去以後呢然後重新的檢討也同時重新檢討你花500萬給英國算你找英國誰算\n你給他付薪水都不夠,他有到馬祖來過嗎?有看過水深是多深嗎?我上次有跟委員報告過,我們是建立在世新的規劃書上面的基礎因為他已經規劃得很完整我們只是去驗證這樣的一個深度,國內沒有經驗然後看看國外有沒有這樣的經驗你建設計畫花不了多少錢?院長\n後面有多少錢?你把建設計畫裡面細色、詳細弄出來,那才是叫數字啊,是不是?你國發會有這樣的人才嗎?你海洋大學畢業,你就可以講說300億、500億、800億所以我們送到英國去,請英國的專家來寫證\n英國人有講要400多億嗎?英國的專家至少他們比較有經驗看到國外的經驗,因為我們國內沒有這樣的經驗世新也沒有這樣的經驗所以我們要再次的驗證,我們追蹤世新的專業但是我們希望再經過第二次的驗證國內的技術\n專家你不去聽,外國約量比較遠委員我們這樣是在保障馬祖元的安全五百萬是什麼?五百萬在英國眼中是什麼?是不是OB是什麼錢你知道嗎?所以拜託,院長這個幫我們進入建設計畫我想行政院秘書長今天也有來秘書長\n拜託一下好不好你送上去給院長看嘛 送上去給總統批嘛好不好你不能在那邊跟我這樣子講包括我本人 主委 部長我們都有掌握這個狀況 新的發展你也可以講說五百億啊 一千億啊沒有沒有 這絕對不是空口亂講你國發會有沒有在那胡扯八道國發會有這樣的專家 你把專家拿出來給我看誰啊這是透過專業的一個評估 但是我就是從頭再來看這樣的評估到底準確如何\n還有離島建設基金剩下8.86億我歷史跟陳玉珍委員還有楊耀維諸君你們說隨時撥補問你剩下8.86億你一年要花掉3億起碼吧你到現在怎麼辦很多案子到你們那邊可能就停擺了那離島基金就沒了嘛\n委員我們現在是一年編列酒業的預算但是我們今年被砍掉了6%在大院你回去檢討一下,現在時間還剩下55秒小山通啊,拜託一下他們說團過來,我們又再阻止他團現在不來了馬祖街道冷冷清清啊真的所有旅館全部空蕩蕩的\n民運部聊生所以請院長交通部有機會過去看一看陸委會這邊也謝謝我們邱主委很關心我們真的都給我們跟大陸盡量不要吵架了這樣弄下去我的心情被你們搞亂了我立委都不想幹了不要說罷免我最好今天就辭職算了我都幹不下去啦你知道嗎我都幹不下去啦院長你覺得陳遠勝這個兄弟\n你要我留在立法院還是要我離開請你多支持我好不好請你今天結束以後多休息你多支持啊今天\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.569 --> 00:18.585\n發言第44位陳雪生委員請質詢謝謝主席是不是請院長卓院長謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n00:28.871 --> 00:57.573\n陳委員好站了一天了,馬上下課了今天本席質詢四個感謝一個抱怨我想感謝先來好了感謝國防部國防部從善如流接受本席的建議對馬祖地區的東營指揮部還有舉光指揮部那麼在113年6月27號核定修正\n\n00:59.187 --> 01:26.321\n國軍地域加級也是由原來的第三級調整為第二級東營跟舉光我們韓院長也在舉光當過副院長沒水沒電非常的辛苦那麼顧部長這邊從善如流謝謝您把他調整那現在問題來了亮島跟高登\n\n01:27.000 --> 01:53.488\n亮島院長沒去過我不曉得顧部長去過沒有我去過一個亮島有沒有去過亮島跟高登高登在北竿旁邊距離大陸是最近的一個地區高登大概也只有幾十個人亮島也只有幾十個官兵大概兩個島不足一百個\n\n01:54.741 --> 02:18.281\n那麼在釀島尤其辛苦我當縣長的時候每次陪同我們地區的指揮官去做軍務視察的時候他去視察我去慰問我一定到肉舖砍兩個豬腳豬腿豬腿送到那邊去他們都是吃罐頭沒有肉吃魚的話也要靠運補上去\n\n02:22.250 --> 02:46.725\n亮島那邊大概一兩個禮拜才運補一次那裡沒有因為土質都是研盤沒有土質所以他們都是用那個寶特瓶空青菜放在裡面種植一層一層的他們吃的青菜是這樣因為普及的問題所以我在這邊建議是不是能夠把高登亮島由二級改為一級\n\n02:47.779 --> 03:17.060\n那麼三級改為二級大概差距是兩千兩百一十塊那麼亮島跟高登只有幾十個人幾十個人是不是可以把他調整從二級調整到一級這裡面差八千塊目前亮島跟高登的這個兵員人家都不願意去了如果您的小孩在那邊當兵的話你會體諒到沒水沒電\n\n03:18.220 --> 03:33.390\n沒有水也沒有電,非常的辛苦幾十個人過去在戰時的時候我一級48年823砲戰十週年老共要做報復我們在民國58年的時候我們全島16歲以上的婦女\n\n03:43.137 --> 04:09.993\n年輕人不可以離境而且槍彈全部都到位所以非常非常的辛苦我們面對對面一整塊的山群非常的恐懼我們平常都要躲砲彈每天晚上都要躲這個砲彈所以那時候內心的恐懼所以我們一直怕戰爭的爆發所以現在兵兇戰委我想\n\n04:10.782 --> 04:15.658\n左院長這邊也跟賴總統報告,我們不要贊成,我們希望和平\n\n04:17.588 --> 04:41.343\n剛剛聽委員談到您對外島的國軍官兵送了一些食物過去我覺得我們應該為國軍弟兄向委員表示致謝我們就是要防衛我們自己,我們走向和平之道才會表示說我們應該加強自己的防衛能力我也希望院長有機會去激勵我們官兵的士氣好不好\n\n04:46.274 --> 04:48.397\n跟委員報告,現在一級就很難殺\n\n04:53.203 --> 05:16.782\n我們評估的結果認為高登跟亮島跟南沙地區的交通狀況還是有明顯的差異只是交通差異,問題是阿兵哥到那邊去不能回來啊沒有我想說高登跟亮島之間的交通狀況跟南沙比起來南沙還是艱困許多他們那邊已經比南沙少很多\n\n05:17.382 --> 05:44.634\n南沙還可以發電種菜在亮島是沒有的請部長回去查一下好不好我想只有幾十個吧只有幾十位的官兵啊這個是不是請部長回去演繹好不好我並沒有說一定要怎麼樣啦我是拜託部長第二件事情就是感謝第二感謝就是北竿長崎拔長它原來是350公尺長那麼希望它現在已經變更為75公尺\n\n05:46.926 --> 06:16.152\n那麼原來馬防部,馬組防衛部研議啊研議說要五億第一個方案要五億第二個方案要九億其實不需要嘛在北甘島上面不過五百多個兵員你不用回答我多少啦我大概心裡有數五百個兵員長訓的時間不多啊不需要那麼大的一個靶場其實一兩年之內啊他們現在是答應我們說五年之內完成簽件\n\n06:17.250 --> 06:46.457\n因為他這個在淡黃的地區啊而且聘您國中國小縣立醫院安養中心我們運動場所以部長這一方面拜託您兩千萬足夠了啦現在用步槍的機會很少我想在馬祖啊我在那邊住了幾十年應該用飛彈的機會比較大一點用不到步槍啊但是步槍呢必須我們是一個常備的一個項目\n\n06:47.543 --> 07:09.071\n所以部長這一方面希望國防部回去五年之內簽件這個允諾你要實現而且拜託不要那麼大的靶場靶場就是打個靶嘛是不是75公尺而已我也會打我們也常常我們在那邊常常接受民防隊訓練每年也是一年打好幾次部長你說好嗎\n\n07:10.630 --> 07:30.065\n跟委員報告,我想這件事情因為委員長期關心我們現在一方面是調整這個涉及的週期我想這點你也知道每週五天就是只有禮拜一到禮拜五那時段就是八點半到七點半本來今年的元旦元月一號我要躺在靶場上給靶兵打店長說我要保重身體謝謝委員的體諒另外我們現在也做隔音牆\n\n07:40.553 --> 08:05.150\n已經合撥了這個需求的預算金額所以我們會開標以後我們管制在90個工作天點內把它竣工以後就有效可以來防止噪音好,那繼續我第三個感謝馬祖飛高雄的航線部長你知道馬祖有多少個南部的官兵嗎?有900多位\n\n08:06.690 --> 08:34.406\n900多位他們回家的路非常辛苦不是坐船就是坐飛機到松山機場還要坐高鐵才能夠到達高雄現在我們已經把這航線已經打開了當然我要感謝中油油罐車幫我們也弄了加油的部分交通部還有華航還有華信還有民航局大家都用了很大的心去做院長你有沒有聽說過\n\n08:35.882 --> 09:03.328\n哪一家航空公司,我們花蓮也好,台中也好,台中也好,高雄也好,要縣政府補貼的,你們聽過?沒有縣政府補貼,交通部是有補貼的?我們縣政府要補貼,因為他人數不夠的話我們要補貼所以報告院長這一點拜託,還有部長來了我們固定航班時間以後,拜託不要縣政府補貼好不好?馬祖已經沒什麼錢了\n\n09:04.540 --> 09:26.317\n即使這一次你看看這個財化法通過我一句話都沒講其實我們一般的補助款計畫型的補助款如果中央把我們扣下來我們幾億還不夠用還不夠分配是不是可能我們還倒貼所以對我們來講也不是好事所以我幾乎都沒有聲音我也沒表示意見院長部長在這邊\n\n09:28.188 --> 09:53.636\n拜託一下不只是我們發展觀光的需求這裡面也是對我們阿兵哥官兵一個生活上的照顧兩位部長也都在能不能協力來完成那麼這個錢不要縣政府出請你們盡量去努力好不好一個月兩個月我們出得起太久的話長年下去的話縣政府你曉得我們財政分級是列第五第五級第六級\n\n09:55.337 --> 10:06.958\n產生狀況非常的刺激,非常的不好,拜託院長可以嗎?其實其他的航線也都有補貼,你也都很清楚,因為你也常時在關心這個議題\n\n10:08.120 --> 10:37.450\n那高雄的這個部分我們還是要看他的整體的運量就是說現在華夏航空其實很擔心就是承載量不足他會虧很多所以他會希望有補貼但補貼的金額其實如果是承載量很少的話那個補貼金額還真的是會蠻大的部長其實台灣到馬祖這個航線我們國家本來就是有責任所以台北到馬祖行的便利嘛行的安全嘛對不對本來就有這個責任啊\n\n10:38.376 --> 11:05.346\n你為什麼說高雄飛金門都可以飛,飛馬祖不能飛沒有道理,飛澎湖也飛而且都大的飛機在飛我們現在小小的一個要求,小小的要求所以拜託部長回去研究一下,看看有什麼經費什麼樣的法令,如果法令有問題我們可以修改可以修正,好不好讓縣政府能夠喘口氣還有就是這個票價前幾天已經開過會了\n\n11:07.573 --> 11:35.588\n要報到交通部去核定這一點拜託部長回去看他公文馬上把它批了為什麼因為他票價公布以後華信還要排班排班裡面還請部長幫忙一下我據我了解華信很像要排禮拜二但禮拜二的航班因為要配合官兵休假我們除了發展官方這裡面主要是阿兵哥阿兵哥回家日路更近所以希望在禮拜五\n\n11:36.431 --> 11:47.325\n禮拜五的話他們禮拜六跟禮拜天他有多了兩天因為要精打細算他才有這樣的一個需求請部長能不能夠幫忙一下\n\n11:47.991 --> 12:12.034\n報告委員這件事您也協調了好多次我們會盡量朝向委員的期望不過華信航空它整體的飛機的量能這個我們也需要考慮到因為也有其他的離島有這樣子的需求華信的董事長原來是華航的總經理他現在已經申出了是華航的董事長那麼他已經辭掉華信董事長的職務了\n\n12:13.120 --> 12:29.988\n那麼現在華信董事長派了沒有我還不知道,派誰我也不知道我最好能夠派陳雪生的話那我最高興了這個問題不要你解決我就可以處理了但是現在董事長換了我真搞不清楚啊能不能跟華信新的董事長給他切磋一下好不好\n\n12:31.104 --> 12:58.249\n你不要再笑啊不是,立委不能兼董事長我兼董事長?立委不能兼我不能兼,我辭掉啊你一定是一個稱職的立委不行啦,聽說罷免又要成功,要罷免我欸,院長我24小時,數月匪懈為民服務,我助理請了20幾個啊你不要看我們台中、桃園、台北,到處都是我們的鄉親啊\n\n12:59.656 --> 13:27.635\n我24小時為他們做便民的服務,徵取經費也是第一名的所以拜託你不要去談罷免的事情我沒有談罷免的事情拜託一下因為說真的我對馬祖的鄉親非常熱愛我也熱愛這塊土地,剩下三年讓我做完好不好這一點跟你懇切的拜託好不好這個很少人在那邊談這個事情,我是第一個\n\n13:28.892 --> 13:48.709\n第三個就是有關,顧部長請回,這是衛福部的事情第四個感謝衛福部長上任以後,當然他原來當立法委員在我的隔壁我跟他什麼事情,我們兩個如兄如弟\n\n13:50.080 --> 14:11.426\n我跟他報告什麼事呢電腦斷層我們馬阿祖的緊急醫療後送大概一年有160位那後送過來以後有什麼問題呢電腦斷層醫生看不清楚上傳以後磨磨糊糊重新再造一次所以我們我要求他拜託他給我一個800\n\n14:12.904 --> 14:39.404\n八百劑量的斷層後來他說我們部立院全部都是一百多切的不能單獨給你馬祖那我也OK不過他也核定了部長謝謝您雖然你沒有做到八百你當立委的時候答應我八百切但你做部長換了位子以後腦袋又換了不過我也不怪你因為全部大家一視同仁要公平那現在也很多民眾提出來說\n\n14:41.068 --> 15:02.255\n縣立醫院能不能改部立醫院部立醫院的話要部立醫院的規模土地醫生還有儀器醫療設備等等我看需要幾十億當然以馬祖的規格目前金門厚重大概是241個我們一年厚重我們大概最近這三年了最近這三年金門是241我們是160\n\n15:05.768 --> 15:19.308\n所以說那邊基本上的一些配備,像電腦斷層你給我了嘛這個問題,民眾的問題解決了你不然那邊照一次,這邊再照一次因為看不清楚嘛所以非常感謝我們衛福部長\n\n15:20.953 --> 15:47.870\n有關部立醫院如果你不成立部立醫院的話起碼一些基本的配備需求神經內科神經外科還有我們腦袋現在心梗心臟心臟的問題也蠻多的後送過來心梗所以請部長能不能對這一方面再加強再注重一下,可不可以報告委員我幾件事情\n\n15:48.760 --> 16:11.267\n我回答一下第一個就是說有關電腦斷層其實同步那個時期澎湖醫院也是設立了128間的電腦斷層其實它是再加上現在的AI的一個處理可以把影片處理到非常的清楚所以請委員放心以後我們那邊的醫師朋友所照的\n\n16:12.655 --> 16:33.712\n回到台灣絕對不需要再重複照重複照我再找你嘛好不好而且這可以電腦的傳遞資訊所以這個部分沒有問題至於說在強調連江縣馬祖這個部分尤其在連江縣我們從幾個角度第一個人才的培育醫療器材的一個加強\n\n16:35.980 --> 17:00.465\n還有整體的醫療費用的提升,其實都是給予馬祖、給予連江縣最大的努力我想這個部分在幾戶方面也是給予家層加了30%、50%我們兩個人不談政治,我們是兄弟就跟周越南一樣,我們也是好朋友,也是跟兄弟如兄如弟一樣\n\n17:01.465 --> 17:27.924\n我也敬佩,我也不會跟你們爭一張嘴啦對這個連江縣的縣民長期的關心我們一定不管我在過去或者是在現在因為那邊太多醫師的朋友了我們一樣都希望他們有一個好的醫療環境來把我們的縣民照顧好謝謝部長好不好你請回,謝謝院長,那現在我要談到我的抱怨我要談到馬祖大俏\n\n17:31.547 --> 18:00.383\n我還有應該算算不到三年的時間任期就要屆滿了我的年齡也應該差不多了這個馬祖大橋我每天都在關心這個事情從107年我們賴總統時任院長的時候我到行政院找他他馬上就把它批了,綜合規劃他就批了批了以後交通部速度也很快\n\n18:01.038 --> 18:18.404\n折騰公路總局馬上做計畫110年其中報告就出來了送到行政院110年送到行政院以後不停的行政院秘書處還有國發會交通部這個公文一直轉來轉去那個效率實在\n\n18:26.721 --> 18:41.352\n我非常驚人,抓了112年,一整年我不知道躺在誰的桌子上,我看不到也追蹤不到好,112年不見了後來報到113年到國發會國發會說送到英國\n\n18:54.059 --> 19:21.892\n這個殷商奧亞納工程顧問公司做第三方的認證認證什麼呢認證技術有沒有問題認證技術有沒有問題那已經也回來了啊技術也沒問題啊我想賴總統時任院長的時候對我們馬祖大家有承諾喔他的攸關馬祖未來百年發展大街的橋是馬祖人應得的大橋案在自己的手中推動\n\n19:22.677 --> 19:42.789\n一定全力促成這是他第一次的承諾然後賴總統也到縣地去會勘這個南北岸大橋大概3.1公里長他預計要8年完工賴總統也表示經費不是問題當然現在這個經費一直到288億我有一件事情我要拜託\n\n19:54.031 --> 20:19.296\n這個公文輾轉來輾轉去那前幾天在院會的時候我也跟卓院長報告卓院長說一直沒看到這個案子我就非常震驚啊這麼重要的事情我在立法院每一年每一次都在總諮詢的時候向院長提出來\n\n20:21.004 --> 20:49.471\n爭取南北岸跨海大橋也就是馬祖大橋但是院長說不知道沒看到公文我非常的驚訝我是說這個公文跑哪裡去了這麼重要的事情賴總統親口答應的事情而且院長我也口頭跟你報告好幾次但你就看不到這公文所以這公文一直在國發會交通部一直在秘書長行政院秘書處那邊一直在打轉\n\n20:51.377 --> 21:15.915\n我想我不曉得什麼時候才能看到院長讓您看到我要親自拿去給你看嗎我跟委員報告這個工程當然是複雜而且挑戰性很大經過國內國外的工程顧問做了很多的評估目前委員剛剛所說經費達到288億其實上他已經再度修正已經提高到392億\n\n21:20.765 --> 21:40.586\n金門機場評估的時候,我們馬祖機場剛剛評估的時候說要幾百億後來十幾億,十幾二十億我們馬祖南港機場做起來啦所以你不要聽那個啦,你要不想幫我做的話你說這個大橋啊,評估要兩千億因為它有南港機場存廢的問題北港機場要\n\n21:44.130 --> 22:03.201\n修整建的問題,還有大橋的問題,整個合起來談我們還聽到有不同的聲音,主要是現在修正到392億所以我們必須要重新再修正392億誰修正的?是世西嗎?我不曉得是誰修正的?國發會有這樣的專家嗎?他沒有經過一個細部的設計,沒有經過建設計畫的啟動\n\n22:10.097 --> 22:31.725\n他怎麼知道是那麼多億咧?所以我們現在看到的是這樣一個初步的一個概算所以我希望他重新院內還在重新再也不是用含的也不是用吹的一定要詳細精算部長您知道是300多億嗎?你聽過嗎?這個部分我們要回去再了解一下\n\n22:32.288 --> 22:55.407\n不是現在了解,這是你公路總局在精算的公路總局委託4C工程設計公司在弄的4C是我們國內頂尖的這段時間確實整個工程的經費一直在上升委員長期一直關心這個做大橋所以我要跟你報告的是現在最新的發展跟進度不是我是說院長你聽誰講的,誰跟你報告的\n\n22:57.809 --> 23:18.776\n哪一個單位跟你報告呢你回答我好不好哪一個單位跟你報告呢這個是在院內的公文我們綜合起來算他一個概算之後要有人算嘛總是要有人算啦1加1等於2總要有人算出來嘛不是我現在我們還在內部在要求重新核定這個數字為什麼會從288億會漲到390億我想這是馬祖人未來的夢他這個跟機場一定要結合\n\n23:27.478 --> 23:56.477\n欄杆機場要把它停掉欄杆機場的跑道頭端太危險了我每次坐飛機回去我家裡面試試過我每次飛機降落我都怕尤其飛機重飛的時候多恐怖你知道嗎很恐怖你不要造成人命理由再來檢討問題就為時已晚太慢了我希望我身為立法委員我身為馬拉圖的立法委員我一定要在中央來發聲拜託懇求院長回去\n\n23:57.741 --> 24:20.178\n馬上把他進入建設計畫讓他去做細部設計讓細部設計出來因為前面的綜合規劃已經花了1億5千萬了已經花了1億5千萬了所以我剛剛有報告北竿機場的改善這工程的規劃南竿機場的存廢問題南竿機場一定要這個馬祖大橋現在重新修正出來這麼392億的這個預算我們要把它做一個\n\n24:27.967 --> 24:55.210\n你看前院長,蘇貞昌院長,他錢不是問題賴清德院長,錢不是問題390而已就390而已嘛你桃園一個地鐵,從空中變成地下,600億元你都花了,是不是?難道跟一張離島你不重視嗎?而且我們不是一次到位8年的時程,一年花三五十億,我其他的錢可以不要你這個財化法怎麼錢,我一毛錢都不要\n\n24:55.990 --> 25:22.212\n拜託這個事情嘛,一年啊法律就是不是您要不要我們也可以說大家都不要,但是不行這樣說不要我不用也可以嘛,是不是我可以不用嗎?是不是我們陷入到一個非常不穩定的中央與地方的財政的劃分的一個狀態裡面下那如果這個合定的是300多億,那到底是中央還是地方我們不要爭議時啦,我們要爭千秋馬祖這個大橋啊,馬祖大橋\n\n25:25.626 --> 25:49.529\n在朱院長手上批渴在賴總統手上核定我們會感謝你們的好不好我們馬祖真的你看我有介入政黨的問題嗎有跟你談政治的問題嗎我從來沒有我從來沒有有責難過行政院嗎也從來沒有好不好我想院長希望趕快進入建設計畫剛才我不停的質詢您就是說\n\n25:50.478 --> 26:19.968\n你的消息從哪裡來的?你的數字是怎麼出來的?你講個五百億,講個一千億,你就把我砍臼了嘛,是不是?這樣是沒有道理,對我是不公平的啊你到底是誰算出來?如果世襲算出來,需要五百、一千億我給你下跪算啦我太口氣而已,是不是?但是不是這樣嘛你不聽國發會裡面的人,隨便算一下就出來了是不是?我不曉得他是哪裡算出來的這個拜託院長好不好\n\n26:20.675 --> 26:35.123\n讓他進入建設計畫讓他進入建設計畫我卸任的話我死也瞑目啊對不對,我陳宇人有努力過,我有衝刺過我不要讓人家講我陳宇人你在騙人人家說我在騙人啊,說我在騙人啊\n\n26:35.788 --> 26:49.102\n是不是,我沒有騙我的民眾,我很努力在工作我覺得今天把現在最新的發展跟委員報告,委員也可以跟鄉親說明,那目前我們再重新檢討那個數字是虛無縹緲了\n\n26:51.485 --> 27:06.992\n是空中樓格誰算出來的委員我說明一下因為這個深度達到60米是全球也少見的所以我們送到英國去以後呢然後重新的檢討也同時重新檢討你花500萬給英國算你找英國誰算\n\n27:08.593 --> 27:28.640\n你給他付薪水都不夠,他有到馬祖來過嗎?有看過水深是多深嗎?我上次有跟委員報告過,我們是建立在世新的規劃書上面的基礎因為他已經規劃得很完整我們只是去驗證這樣的一個深度,國內沒有經驗然後看看國外有沒有這樣的經驗你建設計畫花不了多少錢?院長\n\n27:32.526 --> 27:42.777\n後面有多少錢?你把建設計畫裡面細色、詳細弄出來,那才是叫數字啊,是不是?你國發會有這樣的人才嗎?你海洋大學畢業,你就可以講說300億、500億、800億所以我們送到英國去,請英國的專家來寫證\n\n27:54.629 --> 28:09.325\n英國人有講要400多億嗎?英國的專家至少他們比較有經驗看到國外的經驗,因為我們國內沒有這樣的經驗世新也沒有這樣的經驗所以我們要再次的驗證,我們追蹤世新的專業但是我們希望再經過第二次的驗證國內的技術\n\n28:16.941 --> 28:35.495\n專家你不去聽,外國約量比較遠委員我們這樣是在保障馬祖元的安全五百萬是什麼?五百萬在英國眼中是什麼?是不是OB是什麼錢你知道嗎?所以拜託,院長這個幫我們進入建設計畫我想行政院秘書長今天也有來秘書長\n\n28:36.260 --> 29:03.528\n拜託一下好不好你送上去給院長看嘛送上去給總統批嘛好不好你不能在那邊跟我這樣子講包括我本人主委部長我們都有掌握這個狀況新的發展你也可以講說五百億啊一千億啊沒有沒有這絕對不是空口亂講你國發會有沒有在那胡扯八道國發會有這樣的專家你把專家拿出來給我看誰啊這是透過專業的一個評估但是我就是從頭再來看這樣的評估到底準確如何\n\n29:05.809 --> 29:27.416\n還有離島建設基金剩下8.86億我歷史跟陳玉珍委員還有楊耀維諸君你們說隨時撥補問你剩下8.86億你一年要花掉3億起碼吧你到現在怎麼辦很多案子到你們那邊可能就停擺了那離島基金就沒了嘛\n\n29:29.008 --> 29:53.222\n委員我們現在是一年編列酒業的預算但是我們今年被砍掉了6%在大院你回去檢討一下,現在時間還剩下55秒小山通啊,拜託一下他們說團過來,我們又再阻止他團現在不來了馬祖街道冷冷清清啊真的所有旅館全部空蕩蕩的\n\n29:54.451 --> 30:22.014\n民運部聊生所以請院長交通部有機會過去看一看陸委會這邊也謝謝我們邱主委很關心我們真的都給我們跟大陸盡量不要吵架了這樣弄下去我的心情被你們搞亂了我立委都不想幹了不要說罷免我最好今天就辭職算了我都幹不下去啦你知道嗎我都幹不下去啦院長你覺得陳遠勝這個兄弟\n\n30:23.342 --> 30:32.105\n你要我留在立法院還是要我離開請你多支持我好不好請你今天結束以後多休息你多支持啊今天\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.569,"end":18.585,"text":"發言第44位陳雪生委員請質詢謝謝主席是不是請院長 卓院長 謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":28.871,"end":57.573,"text":"陳委員好站了一天了,馬上下課了今天本席質詢四個感謝一個抱怨我想感謝先來好了感謝國防部國防部從善如流接受本席的建議對馬祖地區的東營指揮部還有舉光指揮部那麼在113年6月27號核定修正"},{"start":59.187,"end":86.321,"text":"國軍地域加級也是由原來的第三級調整為第二級東營跟舉光我們韓院長也在舉光當過副院長沒水沒電非常的辛苦那麼顧部長這邊從善如流謝謝您把他調整那現在問題來了亮島跟高登"},{"start":87,"end":113.488,"text":"亮島院長沒去過我不曉得顧部長去過沒有我去過一個亮島有沒有去過亮島跟高登高登在北竿旁邊距離大陸是最近的一個地區高登大概也只有幾十個人亮島也只有幾十個官兵大概兩個島不足一百個"},{"start":114.741,"end":138.281,"text":"那麼在釀島尤其辛苦我當縣長的時候每次陪同我們地區的指揮官去做軍務視察的時候他去視察我去慰問我一定到肉舖砍兩個豬腳豬腿豬腿送到那邊去他們都是吃罐頭沒有肉吃魚的話也要靠運補上去"},{"start":142.25,"end":166.725,"text":"亮島那邊大概一兩個禮拜才運補一次那裡沒有因為土質都是研盤沒有土質所以他們都是用那個寶特瓶空青菜放在裡面種植一層一層的他們吃的青菜是這樣因為普及的問題所以我在這邊建議是不是能夠把高登亮島由二級改為一級"},{"start":167.779,"end":197.06,"text":"那麼三級改為二級大概差距是兩千兩百一十塊那麼亮島跟高登只有幾十個人幾十個人是不是可以把他調整從二級調整到一級這裡面差八千塊目前亮島跟高登的這個兵員人家都不願意去了如果您的小孩在那邊當兵的話你會體諒到沒水沒電"},{"start":198.22,"end":213.39,"text":"沒有水也沒有電,非常的辛苦幾十個人過去在戰時的時候我一級48年823砲戰十週年老共要做報復我們在民國58年的時候我們全島16歲以上的婦女"},{"start":223.137,"end":249.993,"text":"年輕人不可以離境而且槍彈全部都到位所以非常非常的辛苦我們面對對面一整塊的山群非常的恐懼我們平常都要躲砲彈每天晚上都要躲這個砲彈所以那時候內心的恐懼所以我們一直怕戰爭的爆發所以現在兵兇戰委我想"},{"start":250.782,"end":255.658,"text":"左院長這邊也跟賴總統報告,我們不要贊成,我們希望和平"},{"start":257.588,"end":281.343,"text":"剛剛聽委員談到您對外島的國軍官兵送了一些食物過去我覺得我們應該為國軍弟兄向委員表示致謝我們就是要防衛我們自己,我們走向和平之道才會表示說我們應該加強自己的防衛能力我也希望院長有機會去激勵我們官兵的士氣好不好"},{"start":286.274,"end":288.397,"text":"跟委員報告,現在一級就很難殺"},{"start":293.203,"end":316.782,"text":"我們評估的結果認為高登跟亮島跟南沙地區的交通狀況還是有明顯的差異只是交通差異,問題是阿兵哥到那邊去不能回來啊沒有我想說高登跟亮島之間的交通狀況跟南沙比起來南沙還是艱困許多他們那邊已經比南沙少很多"},{"start":317.382,"end":344.634,"text":"南沙還可以發電種菜在亮島是沒有的請部長回去查一下好不好我想只有幾十個吧只有幾十位的官兵啊這個是不是請部長回去演繹好不好我並沒有說一定要怎麼樣啦我是拜託部長第二件事情就是感謝第二感謝就是北竿長崎拔長它原來是350公尺長那麼希望它現在已經變更為75公尺"},{"start":346.926,"end":376.152,"text":"那麼原來馬防部,馬組防衛部研議啊研議說要五億第一個方案要五億第二個方案要九億其實不需要嘛在北甘島上面不過五百多個兵員你不用回答我多少啦我大概心裡有數五百個兵員長訓的時間不多啊不需要那麼大的一個靶場其實一兩年之內啊他們現在是答應我們說五年之內完成簽件"},{"start":377.25,"end":406.457,"text":"因為他這個在淡黃的地區啊而且聘您國中國小縣立醫院安養中心我們運動場所以部長這一方面拜託您兩千萬足夠了啦現在用步槍的機會很少我想在馬祖啊我在那邊住了幾十年應該用飛彈的機會比較大一點用不到步槍啊但是步槍呢必須我們是一個常備的一個項目"},{"start":407.543,"end":429.071,"text":"所以部長這一方面希望國防部回去五年之內簽件這個允諾你要實現而且拜託不要那麼大的靶場靶場就是打個靶嘛是不是75公尺而已我也會打我們也常常我們在那邊常常接受民防隊訓練每年也是一年打好幾次部長你說好嗎"},{"start":430.63,"end":450.065,"text":"跟委員報告,我想這件事情因為委員長期關心我們現在一方面是調整這個涉及的週期我想這點你也知道每週五天就是只有禮拜一到禮拜五那時段就是八點半到七點半本來今年的元旦元月一號我要躺在靶場上給靶兵打店長說我要保重身體謝謝委員的體諒另外我們現在也做隔音牆"},{"start":460.553,"end":485.15,"text":"已經合撥了這個需求的預算金額所以我們會開標以後我們管制在90個工作天點內把它竣工以後就有效可以來防止噪音好,那繼續我第三個感謝馬祖飛高雄的航線部長你知道馬祖有多少個南部的官兵嗎?有900多位"},{"start":486.69,"end":514.406,"text":"900多位他們回家的路非常辛苦不是坐船就是坐飛機到松山機場還要坐高鐵才能夠到達高雄現在我們已經把這航線已經打開了當然我要感謝中油油罐車幫我們也弄了加油的部分交通部還有華航還有華信還有民航局大家都用了很大的心去做院長你有沒有聽說過"},{"start":515.882,"end":543.328,"text":"哪一家航空公司,我們花蓮也好,台中也好,台中也好,高雄也好,要縣政府補貼的,你們聽過?沒有縣政府補貼,交通部是有補貼的?我們縣政府要補貼,因為他人數不夠的話我們要補貼所以報告院長這一點拜託,還有部長來了我們固定航班時間以後,拜託不要縣政府補貼好不好?馬祖已經沒什麼錢了"},{"start":544.54,"end":566.317,"text":"即使這一次你看看這個財化法通過我一句話都沒講其實我們一般的補助款計畫型的補助款如果中央把我們扣下來我們幾億還不夠用還不夠分配是不是可能我們還倒貼所以對我們來講也不是好事所以我幾乎都沒有聲音我也沒表示意見院長部長在這邊"},{"start":568.188,"end":593.636,"text":"拜託一下不只是我們發展觀光的需求這裡面也是對我們阿兵哥官兵一個生活上的照顧兩位部長也都在能不能協力來完成那麼這個錢不要縣政府出請你們盡量去努力好不好一個月兩個月我們出得起太久的話長年下去的話縣政府你曉得我們財政分級是列第五第五級第六級"},{"start":595.337,"end":606.958,"text":"產生狀況非常的刺激,非常的不好,拜託院長可以嗎?其實其他的航線也都有補貼,你也都很清楚,因為你也常時在關心這個議題"},{"start":608.12,"end":637.45,"text":"那高雄的這個部分我們還是要看他的整體的運量就是說現在華夏航空其實很擔心就是承載量不足他會虧很多所以他會希望有補貼但補貼的金額其實如果是承載量很少的話那個補貼金額還真的是會蠻大的部長其實台灣到馬祖這個航線我們國家本來就是有責任所以台北到馬祖行的便利嘛行的安全嘛對不對本來就有這個責任啊"},{"start":638.376,"end":665.346,"text":"你為什麼說高雄飛金門都可以飛,飛馬祖不能飛沒有道理,飛澎湖也飛而且都大的飛機在飛我們現在小小的一個要求,小小的要求所以拜託部長回去研究一下,看看有什麼經費什麼樣的法令,如果法令有問題我們可以修改可以修正,好不好讓縣政府能夠喘口氣還有就是這個票價前幾天已經開過會了"},{"start":667.573,"end":695.588,"text":"要報到交通部去核定這一點拜託部長回去看他公文馬上把它批了為什麼因為他票價公布以後華信還要排班排班裡面還請部長幫忙一下我據我了解華信很像要排禮拜二但禮拜二的航班因為要配合官兵休假我們除了發展官方這裡面主要是阿兵哥阿兵哥回家日路更近所以希望在禮拜五"},{"start":696.431,"end":707.325,"text":"禮拜五的話他們禮拜六跟禮拜天他有多了兩天因為要精打細算他才有這樣的一個需求請部長能不能夠幫忙一下"},{"start":707.991,"end":732.034,"text":"報告委員這件事您也協調了好多次我們會盡量朝向委員的期望不過華信航空它整體的飛機的量能這個我們也需要考慮到因為也有其他的離島有這樣子的需求華信的董事長原來是華航的總經理他現在已經申出了是華航的董事長那麼他已經辭掉華信董事長的職務了"},{"start":733.12,"end":749.988,"text":"那麼現在華信董事長派了沒有我還不知道,派誰我也不知道我最好能夠派陳雪生的話那我最高興了這個問題不要你解決我就可以處理了但是現在董事長換了我真搞不清楚啊能不能跟華信新的董事長給他切磋一下好不好"},{"start":751.104,"end":778.249,"text":"你不要再笑啊不是,立委不能兼董事長我兼董事長?立委不能兼我不能兼,我辭掉啊你一定是一個稱職的立委不行啦,聽說罷免又要成功,要罷免我欸,院長我24小時,數月匪懈為民服務,我助理請了20幾個啊你不要看我們台中、桃園、台北,到處都是我們的鄉親啊"},{"start":779.656,"end":807.635,"text":"我24小時為他們做便民的服務,徵取經費也是第一名的所以拜託你不要去談罷免的事情我沒有談罷免的事情拜託一下因為說真的我對馬祖的鄉親非常熱愛我也熱愛這塊土地,剩下三年讓我做完好不好這一點跟你懇切的拜託好不好這個很少人在那邊談這個事情,我是第一個"},{"start":808.892,"end":828.709,"text":"第三個就是有關,顧部長請回,這是衛福部的事情第四個感謝衛福部長上任以後,當然他原來當立法委員在我的隔壁我跟他什麼事情,我們兩個如兄如弟"},{"start":830.08,"end":851.426,"text":"我跟他報告什麼事呢電腦斷層我們馬阿祖的緊急醫療後送大概一年有160位那後送過來以後有什麼問題呢電腦斷層醫生看不清楚上傳以後磨磨糊糊重新再造一次所以我們我要求他拜託他給我一個800"},{"start":852.904,"end":879.404,"text":"八百劑量的斷層後來他說我們部立院全部都是一百多切的不能單獨給你馬祖那我也OK不過他也核定了部長謝謝您雖然你沒有做到八百你當立委的時候答應我八百切但你做部長換了位子以後腦袋又換了不過我也不怪你因為全部大家一視同仁要公平那現在也很多民眾提出來說"},{"start":881.068,"end":902.255,"text":"縣立醫院能不能改部立醫院部立醫院的話要部立醫院的規模土地醫生還有儀器醫療設備等等我看需要幾十億當然以馬祖的規格目前金門厚重大概是241個我們一年厚重我們大概最近這三年了最近這三年金門是241我們是160"},{"start":905.768,"end":919.308,"text":"所以說那邊基本上的一些配備,像電腦斷層你給我了嘛這個問題,民眾的問題解決了你不然那邊照一次,這邊再照一次因為看不清楚嘛所以非常感謝我們衛福部長"},{"start":920.953,"end":947.87,"text":"有關部立醫院如果你不成立部立醫院的話起碼一些基本的配備需求神經內科神經外科還有我們腦袋現在心梗心臟心臟的問題也蠻多的後送過來心梗所以請部長能不能對這一方面再加強再注重一下,可不可以報告委員我幾件事情"},{"start":948.76,"end":971.267,"text":"我回答一下 第一個就是說有關電腦斷層其實同步那個時期澎湖醫院也是設立了128間的電腦斷層其實它是再加上現在的AI的一個處理可以把影片處理到非常的清楚所以請委員放心以後我們那邊的醫師朋友所照的"},{"start":972.655,"end":993.712,"text":"回到台灣絕對不需要再重複照重複照我再找你嘛好不好而且這可以電腦的傳遞資訊所以這個部分沒有問題至於說在強調連江縣馬祖這個部分尤其在連江縣我們從幾個角度第一個人才的培育醫療器材的一個加強"},{"start":995.98,"end":1020.465,"text":"還有整體的醫療費用的提升,其實都是給予馬祖、給予連江縣最大的努力我想這個部分在幾戶方面也是給予家層加了30%、50%我們兩個人不談政治,我們是兄弟就跟周越南一樣,我們也是好朋友,也是跟兄弟如兄如弟一樣"},{"start":1021.465,"end":1047.924,"text":"我也敬佩,我也不會跟你們爭一張嘴啦對這個連江縣的縣民長期的關心我們一定不管我在過去或者是在現在因為那邊太多醫師的朋友了我們一樣都希望他們有一個好的醫療環境來把我們的縣民照顧好謝謝部長好不好你請回,謝謝院長,那現在我要談到我的抱怨我要談到馬祖大俏"},{"start":1051.547,"end":1080.383,"text":"我還有應該算算不到三年的時間任期就要屆滿了我的年齡也應該差不多了這個馬祖大橋我每天都在關心這個事情從107年我們賴總統時任院長的時候我到行政院找他他馬上就把它批了,綜合規劃他就批了批了以後交通部速度也很快"},{"start":1081.038,"end":1098.404,"text":"折騰公路總局馬上做計畫110年其中報告就出來了送到行政院110年送到行政院以後不停的行政院秘書處還有國發會交通部這個公文一直轉來轉去那個效率實在"},{"start":1106.721,"end":1121.352,"text":"我非常驚人,抓了112年,一整年我不知道躺在誰的桌子上,我看不到也追蹤不到好,112年不見了後來報到113年到國發會國發會說送到英國"},{"start":1134.059,"end":1161.892,"text":"這個殷商奧亞納工程顧問公司做第三方的認證認證什麼呢認證技術有沒有問題認證技術有沒有問題那已經也回來了啊技術也沒問題啊我想賴總統時任院長的時候對我們馬祖大家有承諾喔他的攸關馬祖未來百年發展大街的橋是馬祖人應得的大橋案在自己的手中推動"},{"start":1162.677,"end":1182.789,"text":"一定全力促成這是他第一次的承諾然後賴總統也到縣地去會勘這個南北岸大橋大概3.1公里長他預計要8年完工賴總統也表示經費不是問題當然現在這個經費一直到288億我有一件事情我要拜託"},{"start":1194.031,"end":1219.296,"text":"這個公文輾轉來輾轉去那前幾天在院會的時候我也跟卓院長報告卓院長說一直沒看到這個案子我就非常震驚啊這麼重要的事情我在立法院每一年每一次都在總諮詢的時候向院長提出來"},{"start":1221.004,"end":1249.471,"text":"爭取南北岸跨海大橋也就是馬祖大橋但是院長說不知道沒看到公文我非常的驚訝我是說這個公文跑哪裡去了這麼重要的事情賴總統親口答應的事情而且院長我也口頭跟你報告好幾次但你就看不到這公文所以這公文一直在國發會交通部一直在秘書長行政院秘書處那邊一直在打轉"},{"start":1251.377,"end":1275.915,"text":"我想我不曉得什麼時候才能看到院長讓您看到我要親自拿去給你看嗎我跟委員報告這個工程當然是複雜而且挑戰性很大經過國內國外的工程顧問做了很多的評估目前委員剛剛所說經費達到288億其實上他已經再度修正已經提高到392億"},{"start":1280.765,"end":1300.586,"text":"金門機場評估的時候,我們馬祖機場剛剛評估的時候說要幾百億後來十幾億,十幾二十億我們馬祖南港機場做起來啦所以你不要聽那個啦,你要不想幫我做的話你說這個大橋啊,評估要兩千億因為它有南港機場存廢的問題北港機場要"},{"start":1304.13,"end":1323.201,"text":"修整建的問題,還有大橋的問題,整個合起來談我們還聽到有不同的聲音,主要是現在修正到392億所以我們必須要重新再修正392億誰修正的?是世西嗎?我不曉得是誰修正的?國發會有這樣的專家嗎?他沒有經過一個細部的設計,沒有經過建設計畫的啟動"},{"start":1330.097,"end":1351.725,"text":"他怎麼知道是那麼多億咧?所以我們現在看到的是這樣一個初步的一個概算所以我希望他重新院內還在重新再也不是用含的也不是用吹的一定要詳細精算部長您知道是300多億嗎?你聽過嗎?這個部分我們要回去再了解一下"},{"start":1352.288,"end":1375.407,"text":"不是現在了解,這是你公路總局在精算的公路總局委託4C工程設計公司在弄的4C是我們國內頂尖的這段時間確實整個工程的經費一直在上升委員長期一直關心這個做大橋所以我要跟你報告的是現在最新的發展跟進度不是我是說院長你聽誰講的,誰跟你報告的"},{"start":1377.809,"end":1398.776,"text":"哪一個單位跟你報告呢你回答我好不好哪一個單位跟你報告呢這個是在院內的公文我們綜合起來算他一個概算之後要有人算嘛總是要有人算啦1加1等於2總要有人算出來嘛不是我現在我們還在內部在要求重新核定這個數字為什麼會從288億會漲到390億我想這是馬祖人未來的夢他這個跟機場一定要結合"},{"start":1407.478,"end":1436.477,"text":"欄杆機場要把它停掉欄杆機場的跑道頭端太危險了我每次坐飛機回去我家裡面試試過我每次飛機降落我都怕尤其飛機重飛的時候多恐怖你知道嗎很恐怖你不要造成人命理由再來檢討問題就為時已晚太慢了我希望我身為立法委員我身為馬拉圖的立法委員我一定要在中央來發聲拜託懇求院長回去"},{"start":1437.741,"end":1460.178,"text":"馬上把他進入建設計畫讓他去做細部設計讓細部設計出來因為前面的綜合規劃已經花了1億5千萬了已經花了1億5千萬了所以我剛剛有報告北竿機場的改善這工程的規劃南竿機場的存廢問題南竿機場一定要這個馬祖大橋現在重新修正出來這麼392億的這個預算我們要把它做一個"},{"start":1467.967,"end":1495.21,"text":"你看前院長,蘇貞昌院長,他錢不是問題賴清德院長,錢不是問題390而已就390而已嘛你桃園一個地鐵,從空中變成地下,600億元你都花了,是不是?難道跟一張離島你不重視嗎?而且我們不是一次到位8年的時程,一年花三五十億,我其他的錢可以不要你這個財化法怎麼錢,我一毛錢都不要"},{"start":1495.99,"end":1522.212,"text":"拜託這個事情嘛,一年啊法律就是不是您要不要我們也可以說大家都不要,但是不行這樣說不要我不用也可以嘛,是不是我可以不用嗎?是不是我們陷入到一個非常不穩定的中央與地方的財政的劃分的一個狀態裡面下那如果這個合定的是300多億,那到底是中央還是地方我們不要爭議時啦,我們要爭千秋馬祖這個大橋啊,馬祖大橋"},{"start":1525.626,"end":1549.529,"text":"在朱院長手上批渴在賴總統手上核定我們會感謝你們的好不好我們馬祖真的你看我有介入政黨的問題嗎有跟你談政治的問題嗎我從來沒有我從來沒有有責難過行政院嗎也從來沒有好不好我想院長希望趕快進入建設計畫剛才我不停的質詢您就是說"},{"start":1550.478,"end":1579.968,"text":"你的消息從哪裡來的?你的數字是怎麼出來的?你講個五百億,講個一千億,你就把我砍臼了嘛,是不是?這樣是沒有道理,對我是不公平的啊你到底是誰算出來?如果世襲算出來,需要五百、一千億我給你下跪算啦我太口氣而已,是不是?但是不是這樣嘛你不聽國發會裡面的人,隨便算一下就出來了是不是?我不曉得他是哪裡算出來的這個拜託院長好不好"},{"start":1580.675,"end":1595.123,"text":"讓他進入建設計畫讓他進入建設計畫我卸任的話我死也瞑目啊對不對,我陳宇人有努力過,我有衝刺過我不要讓人家講我陳宇人你在騙人人家說我在騙人啊,說我在騙人啊"},{"start":1595.788,"end":1609.102,"text":"是不是,我沒有騙我的民眾,我很努力在工作我覺得今天把現在最新的發展跟委員報告,委員也可以跟鄉親說明,那目前我們再重新檢討那個數字是虛無縹緲了"},{"start":1611.485,"end":1626.992,"text":"是空中樓格誰算出來的委員我說明一下因為這個深度達到60米是全球也少見的所以我們送到英國去以後呢然後重新的檢討也同時重新檢討你花500萬給英國算你找英國誰算"},{"start":1628.593,"end":1648.64,"text":"你給他付薪水都不夠,他有到馬祖來過嗎?有看過水深是多深嗎?我上次有跟委員報告過,我們是建立在世新的規劃書上面的基礎因為他已經規劃得很完整我們只是去驗證這樣的一個深度,國內沒有經驗然後看看國外有沒有這樣的經驗你建設計畫花不了多少錢?院長"},{"start":1652.526,"end":1662.777,"text":"後面有多少錢?你把建設計畫裡面細色、詳細弄出來,那才是叫數字啊,是不是?你國發會有這樣的人才嗎?你海洋大學畢業,你就可以講說300億、500億、800億所以我們送到英國去,請英國的專家來寫證"},{"start":1674.629,"end":1689.325,"text":"英國人有講要400多億嗎?英國的專家至少他們比較有經驗看到國外的經驗,因為我們國內沒有這樣的經驗世新也沒有這樣的經驗所以我們要再次的驗證,我們追蹤世新的專業但是我們希望再經過第二次的驗證國內的技術"},{"start":1696.941,"end":1715.495,"text":"專家你不去聽,外國約量比較遠委員我們這樣是在保障馬祖元的安全五百萬是什麼?五百萬在英國眼中是什麼?是不是OB是什麼錢你知道嗎?所以拜託,院長這個幫我們進入建設計畫我想行政院秘書長今天也有來秘書長"},{"start":1716.26,"end":1743.528,"text":"拜託一下好不好你送上去給院長看嘛 送上去給總統批嘛好不好你不能在那邊跟我這樣子講包括我本人 主委 部長我們都有掌握這個狀況 新的發展你也可以講說五百億啊 一千億啊沒有沒有 這絕對不是空口亂講你國發會有沒有在那胡扯八道國發會有這樣的專家 你把專家拿出來給我看誰啊這是透過專業的一個評估 但是我就是從頭再來看這樣的評估到底準確如何"},{"start":1745.809,"end":1767.416,"text":"還有離島建設基金剩下8.86億我歷史跟陳玉珍委員還有楊耀維諸君你們說隨時撥補問你剩下8.86億你一年要花掉3億起碼吧你到現在怎麼辦很多案子到你們那邊可能就停擺了那離島基金就沒了嘛"},{"start":1769.008,"end":1793.222,"text":"委員我們現在是一年編列酒業的預算但是我們今年被砍掉了6%在大院你回去檢討一下,現在時間還剩下55秒小山通啊,拜託一下他們說團過來,我們又再阻止他團現在不來了馬祖街道冷冷清清啊真的所有旅館全部空蕩蕩的"},{"start":1794.451,"end":1822.014,"text":"民運部聊生所以請院長交通部有機會過去看一看陸委會這邊也謝謝我們邱主委很關心我們真的都給我們跟大陸盡量不要吵架了這樣弄下去我的心情被你們搞亂了我立委都不想幹了不要說罷免我最好今天就辭職算了我都幹不下去啦你知道嗎我都幹不下去啦院長你覺得陳遠勝這個兄弟"},{"start":1823.342,"end":1832.105,"text":"你要我留在立法院還是要我離開請你多支持我好不好請你今天結束以後多休息你多支持啊今天"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":755,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（17時49分）謝謝主席。是不是請卓院長？謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["陳委員雪生：院長辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：站了一天了，馬上下課了。"],["卓院長榮泰：還好、還好。"],["陳委員雪生：今天本席質詢有四個感謝、一個抱怨，我想感謝先來好了，感謝國防部，國防部從善如流，接受本席的建議，對馬祖地區的東引指揮部，還有莒光指揮部，在113年6月27號核定修正國軍地域加給，也就是由原來的第三級調整為第二級。東引跟莒光，我們韓院長也在莒光當過副連長，沒水、沒電，非常的辛苦，顧部長從善如流，謝謝您把它調整了，但現在問題來了，亮島跟高登的部分，院長沒去過亮島吧？我不曉得顧部長去過沒有？"],["顧部長立雄：我去過一個……"],["陳委員雪生：亮島有沒有去過？高登在北竿的旁邊，距離大陸是最近的一個地區……"],["顧部長立雄：是，應該去過高登。"],["陳委員雪生：高登大概只有幾十個人，亮島也只有幾十個官兵，兩個島大概不足100人，亮島尤其辛苦，我當縣長的時候，每次陪同地區指揮官去軍務視察的時候，他去視察、我去慰問，我一定到肉舖砍兩隻豬腳、豬腿送到那邊，因為他們都是吃罐頭，沒有肉吃，魚也要靠運補上去，亮島大概一、兩個禮拜才運補一次，因為那裡的土質都是岩盤，沒有土壤，所以都是用寶特瓶把空心菜種植在裡面，一層一層的，他們吃的青菜都是這樣來的，因為土地的問題，所以我在這邊建議，是不是能夠把高登、亮島由二級改為一級？三級改為二級，大概差距2,210塊，亮島跟高登只有幾十個人，是不是可以把它從二級調整到一級，這中間是差8,000塊？目前亮島跟高登的兵員，大家都不願意去，如果您的小孩在那邊當兵，你就會體諒到沒水、沒電的辛苦，幾十個人在那邊非常的辛苦。過去戰時的時候，我憶及48年八二三砲戰的10週年，老共要報復，我們在民國58年時是全島16歲以上的婦女、年輕人都不可以離境，而且槍彈全部到位，所以非常非常辛苦，面對對面一整塊山群非常的恐懼，平常每天晚上我們都要躲砲彈，內心非常恐懼，所以一直很怕戰爭爆發；現在兵兇戰危，我想卓院長也要跟賴總統報告，我們不要戰爭，我們希望和平……"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛聽委員談到您為外島國軍官兵送了一些食物，我覺得我們應該為國軍弟兄向委員表示致謝，感謝委員……"],["陳委員雪生：有機會我希望我們總統……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們就是要防衛自己，走向和平之道，才會表示應該加強我們自己的防衛能力。"],["陳委員雪生：我也希望院長有機會去激勵我們官兵的士氣，好不好？這個由二級改為一級的部分，是不是請顧部長研議一下？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，現在一級只有南沙，我們評估的結果認為高登、亮島跟南沙地區的交通狀況還是有明顯的差異……"],["陳委員雪生：只是交通差異？問題是阿兵哥到那邊就不能回來啊！"],["顧部長立雄：沒有，我想高登……"],["陳委員雪生：他不能回來啊！"],["顧部長立雄：高登、亮島之間的交通狀況跟南沙比起來，南沙還是艱困許多，因為南沙要回來……"],["陳委員雪生：他們的面積比南沙少很多，南沙還可以發電、種菜，亮島是沒有的，請部長回去查一下，好不好？我想只有幾十位官兵，是不是請部長回去研議，好不好？我並沒有說一定要怎麼樣，我是拜託部長。","第二個感謝就是北竿塘岐靶場，它原來是350公尺長，現在已經同意變更為75公尺，原來馬防部、馬祖防衛部研議第一個方案要5億，第二個方案要9億，其實不需要嘛！在北竿島上面不過五百多個兵員，你不用回答我多少，我當然心裡有數。500個兵員常訓的時間不多，不需要那麼大的一個靶場，其實一、兩年之內，他們現在是答應我們5年之內完成遷建，因為它這個在蛋黃的地區，而且毗鄰國中、國小、縣立醫院、安養中心、我們的運動場，所以部長，這方面要拜託您，2,000萬足夠了啦！現在用步槍的機會很少，我在馬祖住了幾十年，應該用飛彈的機會比較大一點，用不到步槍，但是步槍必須是我們的一個常備的項目，所以部長，這方面希望國防部回去在5年之內遷建，這個允諾你要實現，而且拜託，不要那麼大的靶場，靶場就是打個靶，75公尺而已，我也會打啊！我們在那邊也常常接受民防隊訓練，每年也是打好幾次，部長你說好嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我想這件事情因為委員長期關心，我們現在一方面是調整射擊的週期，我想這點你也知道每週5天，就是只有禮拜一到禮拜五，時段的話就是8點半到……"],["陳委員雪生：我知道，我非常謝謝院長的關心。"],["顧部長立雄：和2點半到4點半。"],["陳委員雪生：本來今年元旦（1月1號）我要躺在靶場上給靶兵打，院長說我要保重身體……"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝委員的體諒。"],["陳委員雪生：那就託你的福好不好？我就不要被槍斃了……"],["顧部長立雄：另外，我們現在也做隔音牆，現在已經核撥了需求的預算金額，所以我們會在開標以後管制在90個工作天以內把它竣工，就能有效防止這個噪音。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，謝謝啦！繼續我的第三個感謝。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["陳委員雪生：馬祖飛高雄的航線，部長知道馬祖有多少個南部的官兵嗎？有九百多位。他們回家的路非常辛苦，不是坐船，就是坐飛機到松山機場，還要坐高鐵才能夠到達高雄。現在我們已經把這個航線打開了，當然我要感謝中油，油罐車也幫我們弄了，這是加油的部分；交通部、華航、華信、民航局大家都用了很大的心去做。院長有沒有聽說過哪一家航空公司，不管是花蓮也好、臺中也好、臺東也好、高雄也好要縣政府補貼的，有沒有聽過？"],["卓院長榮泰：縣政府補貼？交通部是有補貼啦！"],["陳委員雪生：但我們縣政府要補貼啊！因為人數不夠的話我們就要補貼，所以報告院長，這一點拜託。還有部長來了嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：固定航班的時間以後拜託不要由縣政府補貼好不好？馬祖已經沒什麼錢了，即使這一次，你看看這個財劃法通過，我一句話都沒講啊！其實我們一般的補助款、計畫型的補助款如果中央把我們扣下來，我們幾億還不夠用、還不夠分配，是不是？可能我們還要倒貼，對我們來講也不是好事，所以我幾乎沒有聲音，也沒有表示意見。院長、部長在這邊，拜託一下，不只是我們有發展觀光的需求，這裡面也是對我們阿兵哥等官兵生活上的照顧，兩位部長也都在，能不能協力完成？這個錢不要由縣政府出，請你們儘量去努力好不好？一個月、兩個月我們出得起，太久的話、長年下去的話，你曉得我們縣政府的財政分級是列在第五級、第六級，財政狀況非常吃緊、非常不好，拜託院長可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，其實其他的航線也都有補貼，您也都很清楚，因為你也是長期在關心這個議題。高雄的部分我們還是要看它整體的運量，現在華信航空其實很擔心乘載量不足它會虧很多，所以它會希望有補貼，但補貼的金額如果是乘載量很少的話，那個補貼的金額還真的是會滿大的。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，其實臺灣到馬祖這個航線，我們國家本來就有責任、有這個義務……"],["陳部長世凱：所以臺北到馬祖的部分……"],["陳委員雪生：要讓行的便利、行的安全，對不對？本來就有這個責任啊！為什麼高雄飛金門可以飛，飛馬祖不能飛呢？沒有道理嘛！飛澎湖也飛了，而且都是大的飛機在飛耶！我們現在一個小小的要求，這一點拜託部長回去研究一下，看看有什麼經費、有什麼樣的法令，如果法令有問題我們可以修改、可以修正嘛，好不好？讓縣政府能夠喘一口氣。還有一個是票價問題，前幾天已經開過會了，要報到交通部核定，這一點拜託部長，回去看到公文馬上批，為什麼呢？因為票價公布以後，華信還要排班，排班的問題還要請部長幫忙，據我了解，華信很像要排禮拜二的航班，但我們那邊除了發展觀光外，還要配合官兵休假，主要還是要讓阿兵哥回家的路更近，所以希望排在禮拜五，排在禮拜五的話，他們禮拜六、禮拜天就多了兩天，因為要精打細算，他們是有這樣的需求，能不能請部長幫忙一下？"],["陳部長世凱：好，報告委員，這件事您也協調好多次了，我們會儘量朝向委員的期望，不過，我們也需要考慮到華信航空整體的飛機量能，因為其他離島也有這樣的需求。"],["陳委員雪生：華信董事長原來是華航總經理，現在已經真除，是華航董事長，所以已經辭掉華信董事長的職務，現在華信董事長派了沒有我不知道，派誰我也不知道，最好能夠派陳雪生，我最高興了，那麼這個問題不用你解決，我就可以處理了。"],["陳部長世凱：是，是。"],["陳委員雪生：但是現在董事長換了，我真的搞不清楚，部長，能不能跟華信新董事長切磋一下，好不好？院長，你不要再笑啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是啦！立委不能兼董事長啦！"],["陳委員雪生：我兼董事長喔？"],["卓院長榮泰：立委不能兼啦！"],["陳委員雪生：不能兼，我辭掉啊！我辭掉……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，沒有，你是一個稱職的立委。"],["陳委員雪生：不行啦！聽說罷免要成功了，要罷免我欸！院長，我24小時夙夜匪懈為民服務，助理請了二十幾個，你不要看我們是馬祖，臺中、桃園、臺北到處都有我們的鄉親，我24小時為他們做便民服務，爭取經費也是第一名，所以拜託不要去談罷免的事情。"],["卓院長榮泰：我沒有談罷免的事情。"],["陳委員雪生：沒有吼？拜託一下，因為說真的，我對馬祖鄉親非常熱愛，也熱愛這塊土地，剩下3年讓我做完，好不好？真的跟你懇切、懇切的拜託，好不好？OK，很少人在這邊談這個事情，我是第一個。","好，顧部長你請回，接下來是有關衛福部的事情。","第四個感謝是，衛福部部長上任以後，當然，他原來當立法委員時，辦公室在我隔壁，我們兩個如兄如弟，我跟他報告什麼事呢？電腦斷層。我們馬祖的緊急醫療後送，一年大概有160位，後送過來後有什麼問題呢？電腦斷層醫生看不清楚，上傳以後模模糊糊，要重新再照一次，所以我要求他、拜託他給我一個800劑量的斷層，後來他說部立醫院全部都是一百多切的，不能單獨給馬祖，那我也OK，不過他也核定了！部長，謝謝你啦！雖然你沒有做到你當立委時答應我的800切，當了部長以後，換了位子腦袋也換了，不過我不怪你，因為大家要一視同仁，要公平嘛！問題是現在很多民眾提出希望縣立醫院改為部立醫院，而部立醫院要有部立醫院的規模、土地、醫生，還有儀器、醫療設備等等，我看需要幾十億，當然，以馬祖的規格來講，最近這3年，金門一年後送大概是241位，我們是160位，在基本配備上，譬如電腦斷層你給我們了，民眾的這個問題解決了，不然那邊照一次，這邊還要再照一次，因為看不清楚嘛，所以非常感謝衛福部部長。至於部立醫院的問題，如果你不成立部立醫院，起碼也要有一些基本配備需求，像神經內科、神經外科，還有腦袋方面的、心梗的，現在心臟問題也滿多的，需要後送過來，請部長在這方面再加強、再注重，可不可以？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，幾件事情回答，第一個就是有關電腦斷層，其實那個時期澎湖醫院也是同步設立了128切的電腦斷層，再加上現在AI的處理，可以把影片處理到非常清楚，所以請委員放心，以後那邊醫師朋友所照的回到臺灣絕對不須再重複照……"],["陳委員雪生：如果要重複照我就再找你，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：而且這個可以用電腦傳遞，所以這個部分沒有問題。至於連江縣馬祖的這個部分，我們從幾個角度，第一個，人才的培育、醫療器材的加強，還有整體醫療費用的提升，其實都是給予馬祖、給予連江縣最大的努力。"],["陳委員雪生：謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：我想這個部分在給付方面也都是加成加了30%，甚至是50%……"],["陳委員雪生：部長，我們兩個人不談政治，我們是兄弟，就跟卓院長一樣，我們也是好朋友，也是如兄如弟 ……"],["邱部長泰源：我很敬佩委員對連江縣縣民長期的關心，不管過去或者是現在，因為那邊有太多我的醫師朋友了，我們一樣都希望他們有一個好的醫療環境，把我們的縣民照顧好。"],["陳委員雪生：謝謝部長，你請回。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員雪生：院長，現在我要談談我的抱怨了，我要談的是馬祖大橋，算一算我的任期應該不到3年的時間就要屆滿了，我的年齡應該也差不多了，我每天都在關心馬祖大橋這個事情，從107年賴總統時任院長的時候，我到行政院找他，他馬上就把它批了，綜合規劃他就批了。批了以後，交通部速度也很快，責成公路總局馬上做計畫，110年期中報告就出來了，送到行政院。110年送到行政院以後，從行政院秘書處、國發會、交通部，這個公文一直不停地轉來轉去，效率實在是非常驚人，轉了112年一整年，我不知道躺在誰的桌子上，我看不到，也追蹤不到。","112年不見了，後來放到113年才到國發會，國發會說送到英商奧雅納工程顧問公司做第三方認證，認證什麼呢？認證技術有沒有問題。已經也回來了，技術也沒問題了，時任院長的賴總統對我們馬祖大橋有承諾，他說攸關馬祖未來百年發展大計的橋是馬祖人應得的，大橋案在自己的手中推動，一定全力促成，這是他第一次的承諾。然後賴總統也到現地去會勘，這個南北竿大橋大概有3.1公里長，預計要8年完工，賴總統也表示經費不是問題，當然現在這個經費已經到288億了。","我有一件事情要拜託院長，這個公文輾轉來輾轉去，前幾天在院會的時候我也跟卓院長報告，卓院長說一直沒看到這個案子，我就非常震驚了，這麼重要的事情，我在立法院每一年、每一次都在總質詢的時候向院長提出來，爭取南北竿跨海大橋，也就是馬祖大橋，但是院長說不知道、沒看到公文，我非常地驚訝，我是說這個公文跑哪裡去了？這麼重要的事情，賴總統親口答應的事情，而且院長，我也口頭跟你報告好幾次了，但就是看不到這個公文，這個公文在國發會、交通部、行政院秘書處那邊一直在打轉，我不曉得什麼時候才能讓院長看到，我要親自拿去給你看嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，這個工程當然是複雜，而且挑戰性很大……"],["陳委員雪生：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：經過國內、國外的工程顧問做了很多的評估……"],["陳委員雪生：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員剛剛所說目前經費達到288億……"],["陳委員雪生：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：其實它已經再度修正了，已經提高到392億……"],["陳委員雪生：三百多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：392億。"],["陳委員雪生：金門機場評估的時候，我們馬祖機場剛剛評估，說要幾百億……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們現在……"],["陳委員雪生：後來十幾、二十億，我們馬祖南竿機場做起來了啦！所以你不要聽那個啦！你要不想幫我做的話，你說這個大橋評估要2,000億，那我就沒轍了啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：因為它有南竿機場存廢的問題、北竿機場要整建的問題，還有這個大橋的問題，這整個要合起來談……"],["陳委員雪生：院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們還聽到有不同的聲音，主要是現在它修正到392億，所以我們必須要重新再……"],["陳委員雪生：三百多少億？"],["卓院長榮泰：392億。"],["陳委員雪生：誰修正的？是世曦嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我現在……"],["陳委員雪生：我不曉得是誰修正的？國發會有這樣的專家嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：要算啦！它現在……"],["陳委員雪生：他沒有經過一個細部的設計、沒有經過建設計畫的啟動，他怎麼知道是那麼多億呢？他怎麼知道要三百多億？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們現在看到的是這樣一個初步的概算，我希望他重新……"],["陳委員雪生：院長，這個工程不是用喊的……"],["卓院長榮泰：院內還在重新……"],["陳委員雪生：不是用喊的，也不是用吹的，一定要詳細計算。"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，就是有這個數據啊！"],["陳委員雪生：部長，您知道是三百多億嗎？你聽過嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分我們要回去再了解一下。"],["陳委員雪生：不是現在了解耶！這是你公路總局在精算的，公路總局委託世曦工程設計公司在弄的……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員……"],["陳委員雪生：世曦是我們國內頂尖的耶！"],["陳部長世凱：這段時間確實整個工程的經費一直在往上跑……"],["陳委員雪生：院長，我請教你，您說的三百多億是誰算出來的？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員長期一直關心這座大橋，所以我要跟你報告的是現在最新的發展及進度……"],["陳委員雪生：不是，我是說，院長，你聽誰講的？誰跟你報告的？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在資料……"],["陳委員雪生：哪一個單位跟你報告的？你回答我……"],["卓院長榮泰：資料上顯示就是如此……"],["陳委員雪生：你回答我，好不好？哪一個單位跟你報告的？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是在院內的公文，我們綜合起來算，有一個概算之後……"],["陳委員雪生：總是要有人算嘛！總是要有人算啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：對，我不可能去……"],["陳委員雪生：1加1等於2，總要有人算出來，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，所以我們內部還再要求重新核定這個數字，為什麼會從288億漲到392億……"],["陳委員雪生：院長，這是馬祖人未來的夢，這個與機場一定要結合，南竿機場要停掉，南竿機場的跑道頭端太危險了！我每次坐飛機回去，我家裡面失事過，每次飛機降落，我都怕，尤其飛機重飛的時候多恐怖，你知道嗎？很恐怖耶！你不要造成人命以後再來檢討問題就為時已晚，太慢了！我身為立法委員，我身為馬祖的立法委員，我一定要在中央來發聲，拜託！懇求院長回去馬上把它進入建設計畫，讓它去做細部設計，讓世曦去細部設計出來，因為前面的綜合規劃已經花了1億5,000萬了，已經花了1億5,000萬了。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，所以我剛剛跟委員報告，北竿機場改善工程的規劃、南竿機場的存廢問題……"],["陳委員雪生：南竿機場一定要廢掉，為什麼呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：和馬祖大橋現在重新修正出來392億的這個預算，我們要把它做一個……"],["陳委員雪生：你看前院長蘇貞昌院長說錢不是問題，賴清德院長也講錢不是問題，392億就392億嘛！桃園一個地鐵從空中變成地下要600億耶！你都花了，是不是？難道偏鄉離島你不重視嗎？而且我們不是一次到位，8年的時程，一年花30、50億，其他的錢我可以不要，財劃法什麼錢我一毛錢都不要，拜託這個事情一年……"],["卓院長榮泰：法律不是您要不要，我們也可以說，大家都不要，但是不行這樣說不要……"],["陳委員雪生：那你給我，我還給你，我不用也可以，是不是？我可以不用，是不是？我沒有跟你去爭……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在就是陷入到一個非常不穩定的中央與地方財政劃分的狀態裡面……"],["陳委員雪生：院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：如果這個核定了，是三百多億，那到底是中央還是地方要……"],["陳委員雪生：我們不要爭一時啦！我們要爭千秋……"],["卓院長榮泰：是、是、是。"],["陳委員雪生：馬祖大橋在卓院長手上批可，在賴總統手上核定，我們會感謝你們的，好不好？你看我有介入政黨的問題嗎？有跟你談政治的問題嗎？我從來沒有，我從來沒有，有責難過行政院嗎？也從來沒有，好不好？院長，希望趕快進入建設計畫，剛才我不停質詢你說你的消息從哪裡來？你的數字是怎麼出來的？你講個500億、講個1,000億，你就把我處理掉了，是不是？這樣是沒有道理，對我是不公平的啊！到底是誰算出來的？如果世曦算出來需要500億、1,000億，我給你下跪，算了，我嘆一口氣而已，是不是？但是不是這樣嘛！不能你國發會裡面的人隨便算一下就出來了，是不是？我不曉得他是哪裡算出來的，這個拜託院長好不好？讓它進入建設計畫。我卸任的話，我死也瞑目啊！我陳雪生有努力過，我有衝刺過，我不要讓人家講：陳雪生，你在騙人。人家說我在騙人，我沒有騙我的選民，我沒有，我很努力在工作喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：我今天把現在最新的發展跟委員報告，委員也可以跟鄉親說明，目前我們在重新檢討這個……"],["陳委員雪生：最新的發展，那個數字是虛無飄渺的，是空中樓閣，誰算出來的？"],["卓院長榮泰：請主委說明。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員，我說明一下，因為這個深度達到60米，是全球也少見……"],["陳委員雪生：我知道，你不是這個的技術專家。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：所以我們送到英國去以後，重新檢討，也同時重新檢討預算……"],["陳委員雪生：你花500萬給英國算，你找英國誰算？你給他付薪水都不夠啦！他有到馬祖來過嗎？有看過水深是多深嗎？有看過我們的……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我上次有跟委員報告過，我們是建立在世曦這個規劃書的基礎上面，因為它已經規劃得很完整，我們只是去驗證，這樣的一個深度，國內沒有經驗，看看國外有沒有這樣的經驗。"],["陳委員雪生：不是，你進入建設計畫嘛！進入建設計畫花不了多少錢啊，院長，花不了多少錢嘛！你在建設計畫裡面把細設詳細弄出來，那才叫數字啊！是不是？你不能就由國發會，你誰啊？國發會有這樣的人才嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以這樣的一個發展，就是我們……"],["陳委員雪生：你不能講你是海洋大學畢業，你就可以講說300億、500億、800億，隨便你講……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：所以我們送到英國去，請英國的專家來協助……"],["陳委員雪生：英國有講嗎？英國人有講要四百多億嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：至少英國的專家他們比較有經驗看到國外的經驗，因為我們國內沒有這樣的經驗，世曦也沒有這樣的經驗。"],["陳委員雪生：那以後就不要世曦了嘛！你要世曦幹什麼？世曦可以裁撤啦！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：所以我們要再次的驗證，我們尊重世曦的專業，但是我們希望再經過第二次的驗證。"],["陳委員雪生：國內的技術專家你不去聽，外國的月亮比較圓，聽他的。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員，我們這樣是在保障馬祖人的安全。"],["陳委員雪生：你們花了500萬耶！500萬是什麼啊？500萬在英國人眼中是什麼？歐幣是什麼錢你知道嗎？所以拜託院長，這個幫我們進入建設計畫，我想行政院秘書長今天也有來，秘書長，拜託一下，好不好？你送上去給院長看嘛！送上去給總統批嘛！好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：今天跟委員報告……"],["陳委員雪生：不能在這邊跟我這樣子講……"],["卓院長榮泰：包括我本人、主委、部長，我們都有掌握這個狀況、新的發展，我們都知道。"],["陳委員雪生：院長你也可以講說500億、1,000億啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有，這個絕對不是空口亂講。"],["陳委員雪生：你聽國發會在那邊胡說八道，國發會有這樣的專家，你把專家找出來給我看，誰啊？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是透過專業的一個評估，但是我就是從頭再來看這樣評估到底準確如何。"],["陳委員雪生：我還會問。","還有離島建設基金現在剩下8.86億，我歷次跟陳玉珍委員、楊曜委員質詢，你們說隨時撥補，問題是你剩下8.86億，你一年起碼要花掉3億，到現在怎麼辦？很多案子到你們那邊可能就停擺了，那離島基金就沒了嘛！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員，我們現在是一年編列9億的預算，但是我們今年在大院被砍掉了6%。"],["陳委員雪生：你回去檢討一下。","現在時間還剩下55秒，小三通拜託一下，他們說團過來，我們又在阻止他，團現在不來了，馬祖街道冷冷清清，真的，所有的旅館全部空蕩蕩，民不聊生。請院長、交通部有機會過去看一看，也謝謝陸委會邱主委很關心我們，真的多給我們……跟大陸盡量不要吵架，哎呀！這樣弄下去，我的心情被你們搞亂了，我立委都不想幹了，不要說罷免，我最好今天就辭職算了，我都幹不下去了，你知道嗎？我都幹不下去了。院長，你覺得陳雪生這個兄弟，你要我留在立法院，還是要我離開？請你多支持我好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：請你今天結束以後多休息。"],["陳委員雪生：啊？"],["卓院長榮泰：今天結束以後啦！多休息。"],["陳委員雪生：今天結束以後當然要休息啊！"],["主席：謝謝，謝謝我們都愛的陳雪生委員，謝謝你的質詢。也謝謝卓院長、各部會首長列席，謝謝。","報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，我們非常感謝卓院長、鄭副院長、各位閣員一起列席答詢，也要謝謝現場的王正旭委員、林月琴委員一起參與今天的總質詢。","現在作以下決定：下次會議繼續進行施政方針及施政報告之質詢。","現在繼續處理復議案。本院民進黨黨團針對第4次會議報告事項第六案、第三十九案至第四十二案之決定提出復議，請公決案。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","羅美玲","張嘉郡","林楚茵","黃健豪","林岱樺","邱鎮軍","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","廖先翔","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","郭國文","謝龍介","沈伯洋","張智倫","陳雪生"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2025-03-18"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00004","1142601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1142601_00004"}}}