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0.853}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 654.453, \"end\": 654.513, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 654.513, \"end\": 654.653, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 654.653, \"end\": 654.813, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 654.813, \"end\": 654.933, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 654.933, \"end\": 655.073, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 655.073, \"end\": 655.173, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 655.173, \"end\": 655.573, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 655.573, \"end\": 655.753, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 655.753, \"end\": 656.113, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 656.113, \"end\": 656.334, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 656.334, \"end\": 656.514, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 656.514, \"end\": 657.254, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 657.254, \"end\": 657.574, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 657.574, \"end\": 657.734, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 657.734, \"end\": 657.854, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 657.854, \"end\": 658.675, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 658.675, \"end\": 658.835, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 658.835, \"end\": 658.995, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 658.995, \"end\": 659.155, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 659.155, \"end\": 659.335, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"酬\", \"start\": 659.335, \"end\": 659.475, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 659.475, \"end\": 659.495, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 660.095, \"end\": 686.601, \"text\": 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\"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 701.853, \"end\": 702.013, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 702.013, \"end\": 702.113, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 702.113, \"end\": 702.214, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 702.214, \"end\": 702.274, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 702.274, \"end\": 702.294, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:21,901\n請廖偉祥委員來做選擇好謝謝主席要請我們部長來請部長\n\n2\n00:00:28,813 --> 00:00:47,851\n好洪部長你好根據勞動部2024年的勞動統計年報台灣勞工平均年工時是2030個小時對不對那為全球主要國家中的第五高那亞洲主要國家中的第二高那僅次於新加坡\n\n3\n00:00:48,976 --> 00:01:04,133\n那對照OECD國家的平均工時是1713個小時台灣勞工每年等於是多工作約一個月那然而當我們立法院呢有許多委員提案要回復七天假的時候勞動部的次長\n\n4\n00:01:05,034 --> 00:01:22,277\n李建宏卻說很多勞工希望多加班賺錢部長我想要先請教你這個次長的立場同時也是你的立場嗎也是勞動部的立場嗎那個跟文說明我其實有看了次長前兩天這段整段完整的發言\n\n5\n00:01:23,058 --> 00:01:42,090\n他的發言主要他在表達的事情是第一個工時的問題當然有檢討改善的空間第二個是確實有部分的勞工他可能因為他的薪資比較低那所以他會期待用加班的方式來增加收入所以重點是\n\n6\n00:01:45,652 --> 00:01:54,696\n所以勞動部也一直用比方說提高最低工資的方式希望能夠協助勞工來增加薪資減少他可能因為低薪而希望多加班的這種狀況我們是希望減少這種狀況那針對勞動部2024年的勞工生活及就業狀況調查\n\n7\n00:02:08,002 --> 00:02:27,992\n勞工近一年有加班者佔36.6%平均每月加班14.7個小時那其中有領到加班費的或換取補休者佔85%左右所以換句話說有15%的勞工平均每月加班14.7個小時領不到加班費是在做功德\n\n8\n00:02:28,832 --> 00:02:48,485\n部長然後勞工需要多加班賺錢的原因就是因為薪資低嘛剛剛你在講我們也是我們都知道嘛對不對所以他們被迫加班才能夠平衡開銷不是這樣嗎那為何所以為何加班這件事情好像是從次長的這個講法會讓大眾覺得說好像是給勞工的恩惠不是所以\n\n9\n00:02:49,445 --> 00:03:09,432\n所以事實上我想要講的是事實上的意思也不是這樣子事實上我想要講的意思是說包含過去我們的賴總統擔任行政院長的時候也說台灣那時候他說台灣目前整體薪資環境還沒有達到臨界點因此這次修法當時是在說一例一休是幫助勞工賺取加班費的彈性\n\n10\n00:03:11,476 --> 00:03:36,570\n但事實上我們都知道這個講法很類似所以我們說這個立場讓我們覺得說勞工明明就是想要的是加薪不是加班那我們修法也是要希望可以降低工時但是從不管是現在的賴總統當時的行政院長賴清德跟現在的勞動部官員好像讓百姓的感覺就是希望勞工多做功德多加班\n\n11\n00:03:37,645 --> 00:04:04,138\n所以我想這些數據不是這個意思所以我想這些數據我現在沒有要跟你吵這個事情不是吵我要跟你一一的不是這個意思我要跟你一一帶這個數據喔所以部長我想要說你次長的演繹是希望我們來協助讓勞工可以加薪你可以把他整句話可以看完我現在沒有叫你責怪他我跟你講我現在在跟你討論這個事實我們不是來吵架的不是這個意思部長我一個一個講啊我要講下來就是要告訴你這個數據的邏輯嘛對不對所以\n\n12\n00:04:08,123 --> 00:04:30,018\n我相信部長也知道當立法院推動這七天假讓人民有很多時間希望可以有多的時間可以休息那就是希望多加班賺錢這種我覺得這個是比較不負責任的說法但是我們要說從制度公實來看台灣不僅國定假日少於日韓那15年年資的這個特休假也少於日韓所以當然這使得我們\n\n13\n00:04:30,859 --> 00:04:52,524\n年資勞工的制度工時是遠較於日韓的勞工比較高所以現在即便加上如果到時候修法然後即便加上還勞工7天假這個台灣的制度工時跟日韓的制度工時也是在伯仲之間那另外從這個角度來看從薪資跟工時的角度台灣勞工也算是被當成廉價勞動力在使用\n\n14\n00:04:54,044 --> 00:05:18,396\n因為眾所周知我們新加坡的薪資結構是比我們高很多但是他的總工時卻跟我們差不多所以相對來講我想要講出來就是說從之前這樣子的發言我要點出來是說重點還是薪資嘛你剛也在講嘛對不對重點還是薪資嘛你自然的這樣原意也是看是薪資當然薪水比不上其他國有很多相關的背景因素啦但如果加薪做不到我想至少\n\n15\n00:05:19,096 --> 00:05:24,495\n我現在要討論的就是至少這個工時的部分我們要努力來讓他減少吧對不對既然\n\n16\n00:05:25,578 --> 00:05:53,058\n我想七天假已經被砍了八年我是在想是不是應該要思考把它補回來呢那內政部長劉世芳還說七天假不是一個真正的議題不宜倉促立法但是我就想要問那身為勞動部長和紅部長你的立場是什麼那政府的責任是解決勞工的低薪也不是鼓勵他們加班賺錢所以現在我們也至少要解決他的工時過長的問題所以勞動不存在理由我想不就是為了保護我們勞工嗎\n\n17\n00:05:54,139 --> 00:06:12,410\n所以針對這個七天假的議題就是想要問我們部長是不是應該要去做跟委員說明兩個部分第一個部分勞工部當然希望能夠協助勞工增加薪資所以我們推動最低工資上漲第二個我們現在也推動薪資透明化\n\n18\n00:06:13,331 --> 00:06:40,171\n都是希望在提高薪資上面多做一點助力這是第一個第二件事情關於國定假日的調整的問題我們認為在一致性跟公平性的原則下面是可以合理的來做有討論的空間的好部長我就要進一步指來我們進一步講高工時導致我們勞工的健康的問題也是一個很重要的問題引發過勞死那根據2024年台北\n\n19\n00:06:40,891 --> 00:07:05,940\n我們台北醫學大學的研究工時每增加10個小時罹患心血管的疾病風險提高12%那台灣每一年過勞相關的疾病死亡者大概是500人超過500人所以一樣高工時是從前面整個論述到現在我覺得好像我們部包含這些發言包含之前的行政院長賴清德的發言到現在我覺得\n\n20\n00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:28,650\n我們政府應該要更有積極有態度的作為不是讓人家感覺不是讓百姓感覺是在冷漠或是漠視或甚至是逆勢而行所以我是很希望說部長你們是不是你應該要更明確的表態更明確的表態說你支持這個齊田價而不是去說我手裡跑的因為你站在\n\n21\n00:07:30,111 --> 00:07:49,691\n因為現在在討論國定假日現在法規的主管機關是內政部但這段時間勞動部也持續的參與這些相關的討論那所以從勞動部的角度來說關於國定假日要不要調整的問題我覺得我們有正向討論的空間\n\n22\n00:07:51,923 --> 00:08:03,871\n部長所以我想要講你不能一直說討論空間嘛我想要問你的事情是所以勞工要的是加薪不是加班那短時間內短時間內我們薪資結構沒有辦法達成目標那是不是勞動部還是要站在你勞工的立場要表態說我支持還勞工七天假因為當時去年你的在勞動節的時候遊行部長有說替工會當時你說要替工會轉達還民七天假的訴求那你現在從轉達者變成被轉達者你是不是應該要承諾願意站在\n\n23\n00:08:22,163 --> 00:08:43,115\n當年紅委員或是現在紅部長跟勞動勞工的立場積極的更積極的去跟我們內政部長溝通然後甚至直接說你支持應該要還跟廖委員說明我們持續的跟相關的部會包括內政部在交換意見包括也轉達可能勞工各種的期待這事情我們這段時間都在做\n\n24\n00:08:43,835 --> 00:08:56,952\n所以我才說但確實現在法規的主管部會是在內政部但是就勞動部的角度跟勞動部的立場來說我們認為這個議題是有正向討論的空間我希望部長啊你還是要\n\n25\n00:08:59,150 --> 00:09:17,466\n找回你當初的這個找回你當初真的希望為勞工降低工時的這個初衷嚴正的甚至是為我們勞工發聲說這七天假一定要還回來另外有關於一個4至807號同工不同酬的問題和工會法相關的問題\n\n26\n00:09:20,908 --> 00:09:29,391\n性別的薪資的差距根據我們主基處在2022年的統計台灣的女性勞工的平均薪資是男性的85.4%換句話說他就是打85折\n\n27\n00:09:33,839 --> 00:09:54,608\n也就是說每年女性比男性少賺約58天的薪資那每年的同酬日也是呈現這樣的狀況嘛對不對那釋字807號的時候解釋認定勞基法的第49條第一項限制了女性勞工夜間工作行程的差別待遇違反憲法保障的性別平等一旨而且該條文說\n\n28\n00:09:56,818 --> 00:10:07,539\n解釋公布之日就開始失效了那勞動部除了目前除了發布函式以外好像沒有積極推動修法真正落實我們性別平等\n\n29\n00:10:08,496 --> 00:10:35,590\n而且根據2018年的女人民的調查27%的人曾經在職場遭遇到性別歧視20%的人表示自己正處在同工不同酬的處境所以想要請問一下勞動部有沒有什麼具體的機制來檢舉同工不同酬或是去改善同工不同酬的問題還有包含過去三年勞動部處理了多少件同工不同酬的案件認定違法的比例是多少\n\n30\n00:10:38,086 --> 00:10:59,495\n公共委員報告有關那個同工不同酬的這部分的話在性別平等工作法裡面就有規定不可以因為性別而有這種差別待遇那有這樣的這樣申訴的話那這個部分可以處罰30萬到150萬那這種情況那至於說我們現在也在努力的推動包括我們有一個事業單位自行檢視的這個同工同酬的這個\n\n31\n00:11:00,095 --> 00:11:26,601\n那請問有沒有處理了過去三年大概處理了多少這樣的案件那認定違法比例是多少在我們在目前來說的話在那個今年起包括我們的勞檢的部分他在法尊的勞檢出去的時候就會把這個同工同仇的這個檢核表帶到事業單位請事業單位先來做檢視我們希望從這一個部分來先做一個推動那第二個的話所以還沒有具體的數字沒有具體的統計違法的部分我們會後再來做不給\n\n32\n00:11:27,521 --> 00:11:42,294\n那我想要講這個就是說應該要有這樣的統計數字讓我們明確的去推動讓我們希望我們每一年的這個同仇日可以往前再縮短一些好不好謝謝委員那我今天質詢到這裡謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n320\t21901\t請廖偉祥委員來做選擇好 謝謝主席 要請我們部長來 請部長\n28813\t47851\t好 洪部長你好根據勞動部2024年的勞動統計年報台灣勞工平均年工時是2030個小時 對不對那為全球主要國家中的第五高那亞洲主要國家中的第二高那僅次於新加坡\n48976\t64133\t那對照OECD國家的平均工時是1713個小時台灣勞工每年等於是多工作約一個月那然而當我們立法院呢有許多委員提案要回復七天假的時候勞動部的次長\n65034\t82277\t李建宏卻說很多勞工希望多加班賺錢部長我想要先請教你這個次長的立場同時也是你的立場嗎也是勞動部的立場嗎那個跟文說明我其實有看了次長前兩天這段整段完整的發言\n83058\t102090\t他的發言主要他在表達的事情是第一個工時的問題當然有檢討改善的空間第二個是確實有部分的勞工他可能因為他的薪資比較低那所以他會期待用加班的方式來增加收入所以重點是\n105652\t114696\t所以勞動部也一直用比方說提高最低工資的方式希望能夠協助勞工來增加薪資減少他可能因為低薪而希望多加班的這種狀況我們是希望減少這種狀況那針對勞動部2024年的勞工生活及就業狀況調查\n128002\t147992\t勞工近一年有加班者佔36.6%平均每月加班14.7個小時那其中有領到加班費的或換取補休者佔85%左右所以換句話說有15%的勞工平均每月加班14.7個小時領不到加班費是在做功德\n148832\t168485\t部長然後勞工需要多加班賺錢的原因就是因為薪資低嘛剛剛你在講我們也是我們都知道嘛對不對所以他們被迫加班才能夠平衡開銷不是這樣嗎那為何所以為何加班這件事情好像是從次長的這個講法會讓大眾覺得說好像是給勞工的恩惠不是所以\n169445\t189432\t所以事實上我想要講的是事實上的意思也不是這樣子事實上我想要講的意思是說包含過去我們的賴總統擔任行政院長的時候也說台灣那時候他說台灣目前整體薪資環境還沒有達到臨界點因此這次修法當時是在說一例一休是幫助勞工賺取加班費的彈性\n191476\t216570\t但事實上我們都知道這個講法很類似所以我們說這個立場讓我們覺得說勞工明明就是想要的是加薪不是加班那我們修法也是要希望可以降低工時但是從不管是現在的賴總統當時的行政院長賴清德跟現在的勞動部官員好像讓百姓的感覺就是希望勞工多做功德多加班\n217645\t244138\t所以我想這些數據不是這個意思所以我想這些數據我現在沒有要跟你吵這個事情不是吵我要跟你一一的不是這個意思我要跟你一一帶這個數據喔所以部長我想要說你次長的演繹是希望我們來協助讓勞工可以加薪你可以把他整句話可以看完我現在沒有叫你責怪他我跟你講我現在在跟你討論這個事實我們不是來吵架的不是這個意思部長我一個一個講啊我要講下來就是要告訴你這個數據的邏輯嘛對不對所以\n248123\t270018\t我相信部長也知道當立法院推動這七天假讓人民有很多時間希望可以有多的時間可以休息那就是希望多加班賺錢這種我覺得這個是比較不負責任的說法但是我們要說從制度公實來看台灣不僅國定假日少於日韓那15年年資的這個特休假也少於日韓所以當然這使得我們\n270859\t292524\t年資勞工的制度工時是遠較於日韓的勞工比較高所以現在即便加上如果到時候修法然後即便加上還勞工7天假這個台灣的制度工時跟日韓的制度工時也是在伯仲之間那另外從這個角度來看從薪資跟工時的角度台灣勞工也算是被當成廉價勞動力在使用\n294044\t318396\t因為眾所周知我們新加坡的薪資結構是比我們高很多但是他的總工時卻跟我們差不多所以相對來講我想要講出來就是說從之前這樣子的發言我要點出來是說重點還是薪資嘛你剛也在講嘛對不對重點還是薪資嘛你自然的這樣原意也是看是薪資當然薪水比不上其他國有很多相關的背景因素啦但如果加薪做不到我想至少\n319096\t324495\t我現在要討論的就是至少這個工時的部分我們要努力來讓他減少吧對不對既然\n325578\t353058\t我想七天假已經被砍了八年我是在想是不是應該要思考把它補回來呢那內政部長劉世芳還說七天假不是一個真正的議題不宜倉促立法但是我就想要問那身為勞動部長和紅部長你的立場是什麼那政府的責任是解決勞工的低薪也不是鼓勵他們加班賺錢所以現在我們也至少要解決他的工時過長的問題所以勞動不存在理由我想不就是為了保護我們勞工嗎\n354139\t372410\t所以針對這個七天假的議題就是想要問我們部長是不是應該要去做跟委員說明兩個部分第一個部分勞工部當然希望能夠協助勞工增加薪資所以我們推動最低工資上漲第二個我們現在也推動薪資透明化\n373331\t400171\t都是希望在提高薪資上面多做一點助力這是第一個第二件事情關於國定假日的調整的問題我們認為在一致性跟公平性的原則下面是可以合理的來做有討論的空間的好部長我就要進一步指來我們進一步講高工時導致我們勞工的健康的問題也是一個很重要的問題引發過勞死那根據2024年台北\n400891\t425940\t我們台北醫學大學的研究工時每增加10個小時罹患心血管的疾病風險提高12%那台灣每一年過勞相關的疾病死亡者大概是500人超過500人所以一樣高工時是從前面整個論述到現在我覺得好像我們部包含這些發言包含之前的行政院長賴清德的發言到現在我覺得\n426920\t448650\t我們政府應該要更有積極有態度的作為不是讓人家感覺不是讓百姓感覺是在冷漠或是漠視或甚至是逆勢而行所以我是很希望說部長你們是不是你應該要更明確的表態更明確的表態說你支持這個齊田價而不是去說我手裡跑的因為你站在\n450111\t469691\t因為現在在討論國定假日現在法規的主管機關是內政部但這段時間勞動部也持續的參與這些相關的討論那所以從勞動部的角度來說關於國定假日要不要調整的問題我覺得我們有正向討論的空間\n471923\t483871\t部長所以我想要講你不能一直說討論空間嘛我想要問你的事情是所以勞工要的是加薪不是加班那短時間內短時間內我們薪資結構沒有辦法達成目標那是不是勞動部還是要站在你勞工的立場要表態說我支持還勞工七天假因為當時去年你的在勞動節的時候遊行部長有說替工會當時你說要替工會轉達還民七天假的訴求那你現在從轉達者變成被轉達者你是不是應該要承諾願意站在\n502163\t523115\t當年紅委員或是現在紅部長跟勞動勞工的立場積極的更積極的去跟我們內政部長溝通然後甚至直接說你支持應該要還跟廖委員說明我們持續的跟相關的部會包括內政部在交換意見包括也轉達可能勞工各種的期待這事情我們這段時間都在做\n523835\t536952\t所以我才說 但確實現在法規的主管部會是在內政部但是就勞動部的角度 跟勞動部的立場來說我們認為這個議題是有正向討論的空間我希望部長啊 你還是要\n539150\t557466\t找回你當初的這個找回你當初真的希望為勞工降低工時的這個初衷嚴正的甚至是為我們勞工發聲說這七天假一定要還回來另外有關於一個4至807號同工不同酬的問題和工會法相關的問題\n560908\t569391\t性別的薪資的差距根據我們主基處在2022年的統計台灣的女性勞工的平均薪資是男性的85.4%換句話說他就是打85折\n573839\t594608\t也就是說每年女性比男性少賺約58天的薪資那每年的同酬日也是呈現這樣的狀況嘛對不對那釋字807號的時候解釋認定勞基法的第49條第一項限制了女性勞工夜間工作行程的差別待遇違反憲法保障的性別平等一旨而且該條文說\n596818\t607539\t解釋公布之日就開始失效了那勞動部除了目前除了發布函式以外好像沒有積極推動修法真正落實我們性別平等\n608496\t635590\t而且根據2018年的女人民的調查27%的人曾經在職場遭遇到性別歧視20%的人表示自己正處在同工不同酬的處境所以想要請問一下勞動部有沒有什麼具體的機制來檢舉同工不同酬或是去改善同工不同酬的問題還有包含過去三年勞動部處理了多少件同工不同酬的案件認定違法的比例是多少\n638086\t659495\t公共委員報告有關那個同工不同酬的這部分的話在性別平等工作法裡面就有規定不可以因為性別而有這種差別待遇那有這樣的這樣申訴的話那這個部分可以處罰30萬到150萬那這種情況那至於說我們現在也在努力的推動包括我們有一個事業單位自行檢視的這個同工同酬的這個\n660095\t686601\t那請問有沒有處理了過去三年大概處理了多少這樣的案件那認定違法比例是多少在我們在目前來說的話在那個今年起包括我們的勞檢的部分他在法尊的勞檢出去的時候就會把這個同工同仇的這個檢核表帶到事業單位請事業單位先來做檢視我們希望從這一個部分來先做一個推動那第二個的話所以還沒有具體的數字沒有具體的統計違法的部分我們會後再來做不給\n687521\t702294\t那我想要講這個就是說應該要有這樣的統計數字讓我們明確的去推動讓我們希望我們每一年的這個同仇日可以往前再縮短一些好不好謝謝委員那我今天質詢到這裡謝謝\n","txt":"請廖偉祥委員來做選擇好 謝謝主席 要請我們部長來 請部長\n好 洪部長你好根據勞動部2024年的勞動統計年報台灣勞工平均年工時是2030個小時 對不對那為全球主要國家中的第五高那亞洲主要國家中的第二高那僅次於新加坡\n那對照OECD國家的平均工時是1713個小時台灣勞工每年等於是多工作約一個月那然而當我們立法院呢有許多委員提案要回復七天假的時候勞動部的次長\n李建宏卻說很多勞工希望多加班賺錢部長我想要先請教你這個次長的立場同時也是你的立場嗎也是勞動部的立場嗎那個跟文說明我其實有看了次長前兩天這段整段完整的發言\n他的發言主要他在表達的事情是第一個工時的問題當然有檢討改善的空間第二個是確實有部分的勞工他可能因為他的薪資比較低那所以他會期待用加班的方式來增加收入所以重點是\n所以勞動部也一直用比方說提高最低工資的方式希望能夠協助勞工來增加薪資減少他可能因為低薪而希望多加班的這種狀況我們是希望減少這種狀況那針對勞動部2024年的勞工生活及就業狀況調查\n勞工近一年有加班者佔36.6%平均每月加班14.7個小時那其中有領到加班費的或換取補休者佔85%左右所以換句話說有15%的勞工平均每月加班14.7個小時領不到加班費是在做功德\n部長然後勞工需要多加班賺錢的原因就是因為薪資低嘛剛剛你在講我們也是我們都知道嘛對不對所以他們被迫加班才能夠平衡開銷不是這樣嗎那為何所以為何加班這件事情好像是從次長的這個講法會讓大眾覺得說好像是給勞工的恩惠不是所以\n所以事實上我想要講的是事實上的意思也不是這樣子事實上我想要講的意思是說包含過去我們的賴總統擔任行政院長的時候也說台灣那時候他說台灣目前整體薪資環境還沒有達到臨界點因此這次修法當時是在說一例一休是幫助勞工賺取加班費的彈性\n但事實上我們都知道這個講法很類似所以我們說這個立場讓我們覺得說勞工明明就是想要的是加薪不是加班那我們修法也是要希望可以降低工時但是從不管是現在的賴總統當時的行政院長賴清德跟現在的勞動部官員好像讓百姓的感覺就是希望勞工多做功德多加班\n所以我想這些數據不是這個意思所以我想這些數據我現在沒有要跟你吵這個事情不是吵我要跟你一一的不是這個意思我要跟你一一帶這個數據喔所以部長我想要說你次長的演繹是希望我們來協助讓勞工可以加薪你可以把他整句話可以看完我現在沒有叫你責怪他我跟你講我現在在跟你討論這個事實我們不是來吵架的不是這個意思部長我一個一個講啊我要講下來就是要告訴你這個數據的邏輯嘛對不對所以\n我相信部長也知道當立法院推動這七天假讓人民有很多時間希望可以有多的時間可以休息那就是希望多加班賺錢這種我覺得這個是比較不負責任的說法但是我們要說從制度公實來看台灣不僅國定假日少於日韓那15年年資的這個特休假也少於日韓所以當然這使得我們\n年資勞工的制度工時是遠較於日韓的勞工比較高所以現在即便加上如果到時候修法然後即便加上還勞工7天假這個台灣的制度工時跟日韓的制度工時也是在伯仲之間那另外從這個角度來看從薪資跟工時的角度台灣勞工也算是被當成廉價勞動力在使用\n因為眾所周知我們新加坡的薪資結構是比我們高很多但是他的總工時卻跟我們差不多所以相對來講我想要講出來就是說從之前這樣子的發言我要點出來是說重點還是薪資嘛你剛也在講嘛對不對重點還是薪資嘛你自然的這樣原意也是看是薪資當然薪水比不上其他國有很多相關的背景因素啦但如果加薪做不到我想至少\n我現在要討論的就是至少這個工時的部分我們要努力來讓他減少吧對不對既然\n我想七天假已經被砍了八年我是在想是不是應該要思考把它補回來呢那內政部長劉世芳還說七天假不是一個真正的議題不宜倉促立法但是我就想要問那身為勞動部長和紅部長你的立場是什麼那政府的責任是解決勞工的低薪也不是鼓勵他們加班賺錢所以現在我們也至少要解決他的工時過長的問題所以勞動不存在理由我想不就是為了保護我們勞工嗎\n所以針對這個七天假的議題就是想要問我們部長是不是應該要去做跟委員說明兩個部分第一個部分勞工部當然希望能夠協助勞工增加薪資所以我們推動最低工資上漲第二個我們現在也推動薪資透明化\n都是希望在提高薪資上面多做一點助力這是第一個第二件事情關於國定假日的調整的問題我們認為在一致性跟公平性的原則下面是可以合理的來做有討論的空間的好部長我就要進一步指來我們進一步講高工時導致我們勞工的健康的問題也是一個很重要的問題引發過勞死那根據2024年台北\n我們台北醫學大學的研究工時每增加10個小時罹患心血管的疾病風險提高12%那台灣每一年過勞相關的疾病死亡者大概是500人超過500人所以一樣高工時是從前面整個論述到現在我覺得好像我們部包含這些發言包含之前的行政院長賴清德的發言到現在我覺得\n我們政府應該要更有積極有態度的作為不是讓人家感覺不是讓百姓感覺是在冷漠或是漠視或甚至是逆勢而行所以我是很希望說部長你們是不是你應該要更明確的表態更明確的表態說你支持這個齊田價而不是去說我手裡跑的因為你站在\n因為現在在討論國定假日現在法規的主管機關是內政部但這段時間勞動部也持續的參與這些相關的討論那所以從勞動部的角度來說關於國定假日要不要調整的問題我覺得我們有正向討論的空間\n部長所以我想要講你不能一直說討論空間嘛我想要問你的事情是所以勞工要的是加薪不是加班那短時間內短時間內我們薪資結構沒有辦法達成目標那是不是勞動部還是要站在你勞工的立場要表態說我支持還勞工七天假因為當時去年你的在勞動節的時候遊行部長有說替工會當時你說要替工會轉達還民七天假的訴求那你現在從轉達者變成被轉達者你是不是應該要承諾願意站在\n當年紅委員或是現在紅部長跟勞動勞工的立場積極的更積極的去跟我們內政部長溝通然後甚至直接說你支持應該要還跟廖委員說明我們持續的跟相關的部會包括內政部在交換意見包括也轉達可能勞工各種的期待這事情我們這段時間都在做\n所以我才說 但確實現在法規的主管部會是在內政部但是就勞動部的角度 跟勞動部的立場來說我們認為這個議題是有正向討論的空間我希望部長啊 你還是要\n找回你當初的這個找回你當初真的希望為勞工降低工時的這個初衷嚴正的甚至是為我們勞工發聲說這七天假一定要還回來另外有關於一個4至807號同工不同酬的問題和工會法相關的問題\n性別的薪資的差距根據我們主基處在2022年的統計台灣的女性勞工的平均薪資是男性的85.4%換句話說他就是打85折\n也就是說每年女性比男性少賺約58天的薪資那每年的同酬日也是呈現這樣的狀況嘛對不對那釋字807號的時候解釋認定勞基法的第49條第一項限制了女性勞工夜間工作行程的差別待遇違反憲法保障的性別平等一旨而且該條文說\n解釋公布之日就開始失效了那勞動部除了目前除了發布函式以外好像沒有積極推動修法真正落實我們性別平等\n而且根據2018年的女人民的調查27%的人曾經在職場遭遇到性別歧視20%的人表示自己正處在同工不同酬的處境所以想要請問一下勞動部有沒有什麼具體的機制來檢舉同工不同酬或是去改善同工不同酬的問題還有包含過去三年勞動部處理了多少件同工不同酬的案件認定違法的比例是多少\n公共委員報告有關那個同工不同酬的這部分的話在性別平等工作法裡面就有規定不可以因為性別而有這種差別待遇那有這樣的這樣申訴的話那這個部分可以處罰30萬到150萬那這種情況那至於說我們現在也在努力的推動包括我們有一個事業單位自行檢視的這個同工同酬的這個\n那請問有沒有處理了過去三年大概處理了多少這樣的案件那認定違法比例是多少在我們在目前來說的話在那個今年起包括我們的勞檢的部分他在法尊的勞檢出去的時候就會把這個同工同仇的這個檢核表帶到事業單位請事業單位先來做檢視我們希望從這一個部分來先做一個推動那第二個的話所以還沒有具體的數字沒有具體的統計違法的部分我們會後再來做不給\n那我想要講這個就是說應該要有這樣的統計數字讓我們明確的去推動讓我們希望我們每一年的這個同仇日可以往前再縮短一些好不好謝謝委員那我今天質詢到這裡謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.320 --> 00:21.901\n請廖偉祥委員來做選擇好謝謝主席要請我們部長來請部長\n\n00:28.813 --> 00:47.851\n好洪部長你好根據勞動部2024年的勞動統計年報台灣勞工平均年工時是2030個小時對不對那為全球主要國家中的第五高那亞洲主要國家中的第二高那僅次於新加坡\n\n00:48.976 --> 01:04.133\n那對照OECD國家的平均工時是1713個小時台灣勞工每年等於是多工作約一個月那然而當我們立法院呢有許多委員提案要回復七天假的時候勞動部的次長\n\n01:05.034 --> 01:22.277\n李建宏卻說很多勞工希望多加班賺錢部長我想要先請教你這個次長的立場同時也是你的立場嗎也是勞動部的立場嗎那個跟文說明我其實有看了次長前兩天這段整段完整的發言\n\n01:23.058 --> 01:42.090\n他的發言主要他在表達的事情是第一個工時的問題當然有檢討改善的空間第二個是確實有部分的勞工他可能因為他的薪資比較低那所以他會期待用加班的方式來增加收入所以重點是\n\n01:45.652 --> 01:54.696\n所以勞動部也一直用比方說提高最低工資的方式希望能夠協助勞工來增加薪資減少他可能因為低薪而希望多加班的這種狀況我們是希望減少這種狀況那針對勞動部2024年的勞工生活及就業狀況調查\n\n02:08.002 --> 02:27.992\n勞工近一年有加班者佔36.6%平均每月加班14.7個小時那其中有領到加班費的或換取補休者佔85%左右所以換句話說有15%的勞工平均每月加班14.7個小時領不到加班費是在做功德\n\n02:28.832 --> 02:48.485\n部長然後勞工需要多加班賺錢的原因就是因為薪資低嘛剛剛你在講我們也是我們都知道嘛對不對所以他們被迫加班才能夠平衡開銷不是這樣嗎那為何所以為何加班這件事情好像是從次長的這個講法會讓大眾覺得說好像是給勞工的恩惠不是所以\n\n02:49.445 --> 03:09.432\n所以事實上我想要講的是事實上的意思也不是這樣子事實上我想要講的意思是說包含過去我們的賴總統擔任行政院長的時候也說台灣那時候他說台灣目前整體薪資環境還沒有達到臨界點因此這次修法當時是在說一例一休是幫助勞工賺取加班費的彈性\n\n03:11.476 --> 03:36.570\n但事實上我們都知道這個講法很類似所以我們說這個立場讓我們覺得說勞工明明就是想要的是加薪不是加班那我們修法也是要希望可以降低工時但是從不管是現在的賴總統當時的行政院長賴清德跟現在的勞動部官員好像讓百姓的感覺就是希望勞工多做功德多加班\n\n03:37.645 --> 04:04.138\n所以我想這些數據不是這個意思所以我想這些數據我現在沒有要跟你吵這個事情不是吵我要跟你一一的不是這個意思我要跟你一一帶這個數據喔所以部長我想要說你次長的演繹是希望我們來協助讓勞工可以加薪你可以把他整句話可以看完我現在沒有叫你責怪他我跟你講我現在在跟你討論這個事實我們不是來吵架的不是這個意思部長我一個一個講啊我要講下來就是要告訴你這個數據的邏輯嘛對不對所以\n\n04:08.123 --> 04:30.018\n我相信部長也知道當立法院推動這七天假讓人民有很多時間希望可以有多的時間可以休息那就是希望多加班賺錢這種我覺得這個是比較不負責任的說法但是我們要說從制度公實來看台灣不僅國定假日少於日韓那15年年資的這個特休假也少於日韓所以當然這使得我們\n\n04:30.859 --> 04:52.524\n年資勞工的制度工時是遠較於日韓的勞工比較高所以現在即便加上如果到時候修法然後即便加上還勞工7天假這個台灣的制度工時跟日韓的制度工時也是在伯仲之間那另外從這個角度來看從薪資跟工時的角度台灣勞工也算是被當成廉價勞動力在使用\n\n04:54.044 --> 05:18.396\n因為眾所周知我們新加坡的薪資結構是比我們高很多但是他的總工時卻跟我們差不多所以相對來講我想要講出來就是說從之前這樣子的發言我要點出來是說重點還是薪資嘛你剛也在講嘛對不對重點還是薪資嘛你自然的這樣原意也是看是薪資當然薪水比不上其他國有很多相關的背景因素啦但如果加薪做不到我想至少\n\n05:19.096 --> 05:24.495\n我現在要討論的就是至少這個工時的部分我們要努力來讓他減少吧對不對既然\n\n05:25.578 --> 05:53.058\n我想七天假已經被砍了八年我是在想是不是應該要思考把它補回來呢那內政部長劉世芳還說七天假不是一個真正的議題不宜倉促立法但是我就想要問那身為勞動部長和紅部長你的立場是什麼那政府的責任是解決勞工的低薪也不是鼓勵他們加班賺錢所以現在我們也至少要解決他的工時過長的問題所以勞動不存在理由我想不就是為了保護我們勞工嗎\n\n05:54.139 --> 06:12.410\n所以針對這個七天假的議題就是想要問我們部長是不是應該要去做跟委員說明兩個部分第一個部分勞工部當然希望能夠協助勞工增加薪資所以我們推動最低工資上漲第二個我們現在也推動薪資透明化\n\n06:13.331 --> 06:40.171\n都是希望在提高薪資上面多做一點助力這是第一個第二件事情關於國定假日的調整的問題我們認為在一致性跟公平性的原則下面是可以合理的來做有討論的空間的好部長我就要進一步指來我們進一步講高工時導致我們勞工的健康的問題也是一個很重要的問題引發過勞死那根據2024年台北\n\n06:40.891 --> 07:05.940\n我們台北醫學大學的研究工時每增加10個小時罹患心血管的疾病風險提高12%那台灣每一年過勞相關的疾病死亡者大概是500人超過500人所以一樣高工時是從前面整個論述到現在我覺得好像我們部包含這些發言包含之前的行政院長賴清德的發言到現在我覺得\n\n07:06.920 --> 07:28.650\n我們政府應該要更有積極有態度的作為不是讓人家感覺不是讓百姓感覺是在冷漠或是漠視或甚至是逆勢而行所以我是很希望說部長你們是不是你應該要更明確的表態更明確的表態說你支持這個齊田價而不是去說我手裡跑的因為你站在\n\n07:30.111 --> 07:49.691\n因為現在在討論國定假日現在法規的主管機關是內政部但這段時間勞動部也持續的參與這些相關的討論那所以從勞動部的角度來說關於國定假日要不要調整的問題我覺得我們有正向討論的空間\n\n07:51.923 --> 08:03.871\n部長所以我想要講你不能一直說討論空間嘛我想要問你的事情是所以勞工要的是加薪不是加班那短時間內短時間內我們薪資結構沒有辦法達成目標那是不是勞動部還是要站在你勞工的立場要表態說我支持還勞工七天假因為當時去年你的在勞動節的時候遊行部長有說替工會當時你說要替工會轉達還民七天假的訴求那你現在從轉達者變成被轉達者你是不是應該要承諾願意站在\n\n08:22.163 --> 08:43.115\n當年紅委員或是現在紅部長跟勞動勞工的立場積極的更積極的去跟我們內政部長溝通然後甚至直接說你支持應該要還跟廖委員說明我們持續的跟相關的部會包括內政部在交換意見包括也轉達可能勞工各種的期待這事情我們這段時間都在做\n\n08:43.835 --> 08:56.952\n所以我才說但確實現在法規的主管部會是在內政部但是就勞動部的角度跟勞動部的立場來說我們認為這個議題是有正向討論的空間我希望部長啊你還是要\n\n08:59.150 --> 09:17.466\n找回你當初的這個找回你當初真的希望為勞工降低工時的這個初衷嚴正的甚至是為我們勞工發聲說這七天假一定要還回來另外有關於一個4至807號同工不同酬的問題和工會法相關的問題\n\n09:20.908 --> 09:29.391\n性別的薪資的差距根據我們主基處在2022年的統計台灣的女性勞工的平均薪資是男性的85.4%換句話說他就是打85折\n\n09:33.839 --> 09:54.608\n也就是說每年女性比男性少賺約58天的薪資那每年的同酬日也是呈現這樣的狀況嘛對不對那釋字807號的時候解釋認定勞基法的第49條第一項限制了女性勞工夜間工作行程的差別待遇違反憲法保障的性別平等一旨而且該條文說\n\n09:56.818 --> 10:07.539\n解釋公布之日就開始失效了那勞動部除了目前除了發布函式以外好像沒有積極推動修法真正落實我們性別平等\n\n10:08.496 --> 10:35.590\n而且根據2018年的女人民的調查27%的人曾經在職場遭遇到性別歧視20%的人表示自己正處在同工不同酬的處境所以想要請問一下勞動部有沒有什麼具體的機制來檢舉同工不同酬或是去改善同工不同酬的問題還有包含過去三年勞動部處理了多少件同工不同酬的案件認定違法的比例是多少\n\n10:38.086 --> 10:59.495\n公共委員報告有關那個同工不同酬的這部分的話在性別平等工作法裡面就有規定不可以因為性別而有這種差別待遇那有這樣的這樣申訴的話那這個部分可以處罰30萬到150萬那這種情況那至於說我們現在也在努力的推動包括我們有一個事業單位自行檢視的這個同工同酬的這個\n\n11:00.095 --> 11:26.601\n那請問有沒有處理了過去三年大概處理了多少這樣的案件那認定違法比例是多少在我們在目前來說的話在那個今年起包括我們的勞檢的部分他在法尊的勞檢出去的時候就會把這個同工同仇的這個檢核表帶到事業單位請事業單位先來做檢視我們希望從這一個部分來先做一個推動那第二個的話所以還沒有具體的數字沒有具體的統計違法的部分我們會後再來做不給\n\n11:27.521 --> 11:42.294\n那我想要講這個就是說應該要有這樣的統計數字讓我們明確的去推動讓我們希望我們每一年的這個同仇日可以往前再縮短一些好不好謝謝委員那我今天質詢到這裡謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.32,"end":21.901,"text":"請廖偉祥委員來做選擇好 謝謝主席 要請我們部長來 請部長"},{"start":28.813,"end":47.851,"text":"好 洪部長你好根據勞動部2024年的勞動統計年報台灣勞工平均年工時是2030個小時 對不對那為全球主要國家中的第五高那亞洲主要國家中的第二高那僅次於新加坡"},{"start":48.976,"end":64.133,"text":"那對照OECD國家的平均工時是1713個小時台灣勞工每年等於是多工作約一個月那然而當我們立法院呢有許多委員提案要回復七天假的時候勞動部的次長"},{"start":65.034,"end":82.277,"text":"李建宏卻說很多勞工希望多加班賺錢部長我想要先請教你這個次長的立場同時也是你的立場嗎也是勞動部的立場嗎那個跟文說明我其實有看了次長前兩天這段整段完整的發言"},{"start":83.058,"end":102.09,"text":"他的發言主要他在表達的事情是第一個工時的問題當然有檢討改善的空間第二個是確實有部分的勞工他可能因為他的薪資比較低那所以他會期待用加班的方式來增加收入所以重點是"},{"start":105.652,"end":114.696,"text":"所以勞動部也一直用比方說提高最低工資的方式希望能夠協助勞工來增加薪資減少他可能因為低薪而希望多加班的這種狀況我們是希望減少這種狀況那針對勞動部2024年的勞工生活及就業狀況調查"},{"start":128.002,"end":147.992,"text":"勞工近一年有加班者佔36.6%平均每月加班14.7個小時那其中有領到加班費的或換取補休者佔85%左右所以換句話說有15%的勞工平均每月加班14.7個小時領不到加班費是在做功德"},{"start":148.832,"end":168.485,"text":"部長然後勞工需要多加班賺錢的原因就是因為薪資低嘛剛剛你在講我們也是我們都知道嘛對不對所以他們被迫加班才能夠平衡開銷不是這樣嗎那為何所以為何加班這件事情好像是從次長的這個講法會讓大眾覺得說好像是給勞工的恩惠不是所以"},{"start":169.445,"end":189.432,"text":"所以事實上我想要講的是事實上的意思也不是這樣子事實上我想要講的意思是說包含過去我們的賴總統擔任行政院長的時候也說台灣那時候他說台灣目前整體薪資環境還沒有達到臨界點因此這次修法當時是在說一例一休是幫助勞工賺取加班費的彈性"},{"start":191.476,"end":216.57,"text":"但事實上我們都知道這個講法很類似所以我們說這個立場讓我們覺得說勞工明明就是想要的是加薪不是加班那我們修法也是要希望可以降低工時但是從不管是現在的賴總統當時的行政院長賴清德跟現在的勞動部官員好像讓百姓的感覺就是希望勞工多做功德多加班"},{"start":217.645,"end":244.138,"text":"所以我想這些數據不是這個意思所以我想這些數據我現在沒有要跟你吵這個事情不是吵我要跟你一一的不是這個意思我要跟你一一帶這個數據喔所以部長我想要說你次長的演繹是希望我們來協助讓勞工可以加薪你可以把他整句話可以看完我現在沒有叫你責怪他我跟你講我現在在跟你討論這個事實我們不是來吵架的不是這個意思部長我一個一個講啊我要講下來就是要告訴你這個數據的邏輯嘛對不對所以"},{"start":248.123,"end":270.018,"text":"我相信部長也知道當立法院推動這七天假讓人民有很多時間希望可以有多的時間可以休息那就是希望多加班賺錢這種我覺得這個是比較不負責任的說法但是我們要說從制度公實來看台灣不僅國定假日少於日韓那15年年資的這個特休假也少於日韓所以當然這使得我們"},{"start":270.859,"end":292.524,"text":"年資勞工的制度工時是遠較於日韓的勞工比較高所以現在即便加上如果到時候修法然後即便加上還勞工7天假這個台灣的制度工時跟日韓的制度工時也是在伯仲之間那另外從這個角度來看從薪資跟工時的角度台灣勞工也算是被當成廉價勞動力在使用"},{"start":294.044,"end":318.396,"text":"因為眾所周知我們新加坡的薪資結構是比我們高很多但是他的總工時卻跟我們差不多所以相對來講我想要講出來就是說從之前這樣子的發言我要點出來是說重點還是薪資嘛你剛也在講嘛對不對重點還是薪資嘛你自然的這樣原意也是看是薪資當然薪水比不上其他國有很多相關的背景因素啦但如果加薪做不到我想至少"},{"start":319.096,"end":324.495,"text":"我現在要討論的就是至少這個工時的部分我們要努力來讓他減少吧對不對既然"},{"start":325.578,"end":353.058,"text":"我想七天假已經被砍了八年我是在想是不是應該要思考把它補回來呢那內政部長劉世芳還說七天假不是一個真正的議題不宜倉促立法但是我就想要問那身為勞動部長和紅部長你的立場是什麼那政府的責任是解決勞工的低薪也不是鼓勵他們加班賺錢所以現在我們也至少要解決他的工時過長的問題所以勞動不存在理由我想不就是為了保護我們勞工嗎"},{"start":354.139,"end":372.41,"text":"所以針對這個七天假的議題就是想要問我們部長是不是應該要去做跟委員說明兩個部分第一個部分勞工部當然希望能夠協助勞工增加薪資所以我們推動最低工資上漲第二個我們現在也推動薪資透明化"},{"start":373.331,"end":400.171,"text":"都是希望在提高薪資上面多做一點助力這是第一個第二件事情關於國定假日的調整的問題我們認為在一致性跟公平性的原則下面是可以合理的來做有討論的空間的好部長我就要進一步指來我們進一步講高工時導致我們勞工的健康的問題也是一個很重要的問題引發過勞死那根據2024年台北"},{"start":400.891,"end":425.94,"text":"我們台北醫學大學的研究工時每增加10個小時罹患心血管的疾病風險提高12%那台灣每一年過勞相關的疾病死亡者大概是500人超過500人所以一樣高工時是從前面整個論述到現在我覺得好像我們部包含這些發言包含之前的行政院長賴清德的發言到現在我覺得"},{"start":426.92,"end":448.65,"text":"我們政府應該要更有積極有態度的作為不是讓人家感覺不是讓百姓感覺是在冷漠或是漠視或甚至是逆勢而行所以我是很希望說部長你們是不是你應該要更明確的表態更明確的表態說你支持這個齊田價而不是去說我手裡跑的因為你站在"},{"start":450.111,"end":469.691,"text":"因為現在在討論國定假日現在法規的主管機關是內政部但這段時間勞動部也持續的參與這些相關的討論那所以從勞動部的角度來說關於國定假日要不要調整的問題我覺得我們有正向討論的空間"},{"start":471.923,"end":483.871,"text":"部長所以我想要講你不能一直說討論空間嘛我想要問你的事情是所以勞工要的是加薪不是加班那短時間內短時間內我們薪資結構沒有辦法達成目標那是不是勞動部還是要站在你勞工的立場要表態說我支持還勞工七天假因為當時去年你的在勞動節的時候遊行部長有說替工會當時你說要替工會轉達還民七天假的訴求那你現在從轉達者變成被轉達者你是不是應該要承諾願意站在"},{"start":502.163,"end":523.115,"text":"當年紅委員或是現在紅部長跟勞動勞工的立場積極的更積極的去跟我們內政部長溝通然後甚至直接說你支持應該要還跟廖委員說明我們持續的跟相關的部會包括內政部在交換意見包括也轉達可能勞工各種的期待這事情我們這段時間都在做"},{"start":523.835,"end":536.952,"text":"所以我才說 但確實現在法規的主管部會是在內政部但是就勞動部的角度 跟勞動部的立場來說我們認為這個議題是有正向討論的空間我希望部長啊 你還是要"},{"start":539.15,"end":557.466,"text":"找回你當初的這個找回你當初真的希望為勞工降低工時的這個初衷嚴正的甚至是為我們勞工發聲說這七天假一定要還回來另外有關於一個4至807號同工不同酬的問題和工會法相關的問題"},{"start":560.908,"end":569.391,"text":"性別的薪資的差距根據我們主基處在2022年的統計台灣的女性勞工的平均薪資是男性的85.4%換句話說他就是打85折"},{"start":573.839,"end":594.608,"text":"也就是說每年女性比男性少賺約58天的薪資那每年的同酬日也是呈現這樣的狀況嘛對不對那釋字807號的時候解釋認定勞基法的第49條第一項限制了女性勞工夜間工作行程的差別待遇違反憲法保障的性別平等一旨而且該條文說"},{"start":596.818,"end":607.539,"text":"解釋公布之日就開始失效了那勞動部除了目前除了發布函式以外好像沒有積極推動修法真正落實我們性別平等"},{"start":608.496,"end":635.59,"text":"而且根據2018年的女人民的調查27%的人曾經在職場遭遇到性別歧視20%的人表示自己正處在同工不同酬的處境所以想要請問一下勞動部有沒有什麼具體的機制來檢舉同工不同酬或是去改善同工不同酬的問題還有包含過去三年勞動部處理了多少件同工不同酬的案件認定違法的比例是多少"},{"start":638.086,"end":659.495,"text":"公共委員報告有關那個同工不同酬的這部分的話在性別平等工作法裡面就有規定不可以因為性別而有這種差別待遇那有這樣的這樣申訴的話那這個部分可以處罰30萬到150萬那這種情況那至於說我們現在也在努力的推動包括我們有一個事業單位自行檢視的這個同工同酬的這個"},{"start":660.095,"end":686.601,"text":"那請問有沒有處理了過去三年大概處理了多少這樣的案件那認定違法比例是多少在我們在目前來說的話在那個今年起包括我們的勞檢的部分他在法尊的勞檢出去的時候就會把這個同工同仇的這個檢核表帶到事業單位請事業單位先來做檢視我們希望從這一個部分來先做一個推動那第二個的話所以還沒有具體的數字沒有具體的統計違法的部分我們會後再來做不給"},{"start":687.521,"end":702.294,"text":"那我想要講這個就是說應該要有這樣的統計數字讓我們明確的去推動讓我們希望我們每一年的這個同仇日可以往前再縮短一些好不好謝謝委員那我今天質詢到這裡謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":383,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（9時48分）謝謝主席，有請我們部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["洪部長申翰：廖委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：洪部長你好。根據勞動部2024年的勞動統計年報，臺灣勞工平均年工時是2,030個小時，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：為全球主要國家中的第5高，亞洲主要國家中的第2高，僅次於新加坡，對照OECD國家的平均工時是1,713個小時，臺灣勞工每年等於是多工作約一個月。然而，當我們立法院有許多委員提案要恢復7天假的時候，勞動部次長李健鴻卻說，很多勞工希望多加班賺錢。部長，我想要先請教你，次長的立場同時也是你的立場嗎？也是勞動部的立場嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我其實有看了次長前兩天這整段完整的發言，他的發言主要在表達的事情是，第一個，工時的問題當然有檢討、改善的空間；第二個，確實有部分勞工可能因為他的薪資比較低，所以他會期待用加班的方式來增加收入。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，所以重點是什麼？"],["洪部長申翰：委員可否讓我說完？所以重點是，勞動部也一直用比方說提高最低工資的方式，希望能夠協助勞工來增加薪資。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，這個我們都知道。"],["洪部長申翰：減少他可能因為低薪而希望多加班的這種狀況，我們是希望減少這種狀況。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，針對勞動部2024年勞工生活及就業狀況調查，勞工近一年有加班者占36.6%，平均每月加班14.7小時，其中有領到加班費或換取補休者占85%左右，換句話說，有15%的勞工平均每月加班14.7小時領不到加班費，是在做功德囉！部長，勞工需要多加班賺錢的原因，就是因為薪資低，剛剛你在講。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：我們也都知道。所以他們被迫加班才能夠平衡開銷，不是這樣嗎？所以為何加班這件事情好像是，從次長的這個講法，會讓大眾覺得好像是給勞工的恩惠……"],["洪部長申翰：不是。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以事實上……"],["洪部長申翰：次長的意思也不是這樣。"],["廖委員偉翔：事實上我想要講的是，包含過去賴總統擔任行政院長的時候也說，臺灣目前整體薪資環境還沒有達到臨界點，因此這次修法……當時是在說一例一休，是幫助勞工賺取加班費的彈性，但我們都知道這個講法很類似，這個立場讓我們覺得勞工明明想要的是加薪，不是加班。我們修法也是希望可以降低工時，但是不管是當時的行政院長賴清德跟現在的勞動部官員，好像讓百姓的感覺就是希望勞工多做功德、多加班，所以我想這些數據……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，不是這個意思。"],["廖委員偉翔：我想這些數據，我現在沒有要跟你吵這個事情……"],["洪部長申翰：不是吵，我要跟你說明不是這個意思。"],["廖委員偉翔：我要一一跟你帶這個數據，部長，我想要說你也知道……"],["洪部長申翰：以次長的原意是希望我們來協助讓勞工可以加薪，你可以把整句話看完。所以我們在調最低工資……"],["廖委員偉翔：我現在沒有叫你責怪他，我跟你講。"],["洪部長申翰：是、是。"],["廖委員偉翔：我現在跟你討論這個事實，我不是來吵架的，部長。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，不是這個意思。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我一個一個講，我講下來就是要告訴你這個數據的邏輯嘛！我相信部長也知道，立法院推動這7天假，是讓人民有多的時間可以休息。希望多加班賺錢，這種我覺得是比較不負責任的說法。從制度工時來看，臺灣不僅國定假日少於日、韓，15年年資的特休假也少於日、韓，當然這使得我們勞工的制度工時遠較日、韓的勞工高，所以到時候修法，即便加上還勞工7天假，臺灣的制度工時跟日、韓的制度工時也是在伯仲之間。另外，從薪資跟工時的角度，臺灣的勞工也算是被當成廉價勞動力在使用。眾所周知，新加坡的薪資結構比我們高很多，但是他的總工時卻跟我們差不多，相對來講，我想要講出來的是從之前這樣子的發言，我要點出來重點還是薪資嘛！你剛剛也在講重點還是薪資。"],["洪部長申翰：是，次長的原意也算是薪資。"],["廖委員偉翔：薪水比不上其他國家有很多相關的背景因素，但如果加薪做不到，我現在要討論的就是至少工時的部分，我們要努力讓它減少。7天假已經被砍了8年，是不是應該要思考把它補回來呢？內政部長劉世芳還說7天假不是一個真正的議題，不宜倉促立法。但是我就想要問，身為勞動部長，洪部長，你的立場是什麼？政府的責任是解決勞工的低薪，也不是鼓勵他們加班賺錢，所以現在我們至少要解決工時過長的問題，勞動部存在的理由，不就是為了保護我們勞工嗎？所以針對這7天假的議題，就是想要問部長，是不是應該要去做？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明兩個部分，第一個部分，勞動部當然希望能夠協助勞工增加薪資，所以我們推動最低工資上漲；第二個，我們現在推動薪資透明化，都是希望在提高薪資上多做一點助力，這是第一個。第二件事情，關於國定假日調整的問題，我們認為在一致性跟公平性的原則下面可以合理的來做，有討論的空間。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，部長，我們進一步講，高工時導致勞工健康的問題，這也是一個很重要的問題，因為它會引發過勞死。根據2024年臺北醫學大學的研究，工時每增加10個小時，罹患心血管疾病的風險提高12%；臺灣每一年過勞相關的疾病，死亡者大概是超過500人。高工時從前面整個論述到現在，包含勞動部這些發言、包含之前行政院長賴清德的發言到現在，我覺得政府應該要有更積極、有態度的作為，不要讓百姓感覺是冷漠或漠視，甚至是逆勢而行。我很希望部長，你應該要更明確的表態說，你支持這個7天假，而不是去說……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我跟你說明……"],["廖委員偉翔：因為你站在……"],["洪部長申翰：廖委員，因為現在在討論國定假日，現在的法規主管機關是內政部，但這段時間勞動部也持續參與這些相關的討論。從勞動部的角度，我還是要說關於國定假日要不要調整的問題，我覺得我們有正向討論的空間。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，你不能一直說討論空間，我想要問你的事情是，勞工要的是加薪，不是加班，短時間內我們薪資結構沒有辦法達成目標……"],["洪部長申翰：我們希望……"],["廖委員偉翔：勞動部還是要站在勞工的立場，要表態我支持還勞工7天假，因為去年在勞動節遊行的時候，部長，當時你說要替工會轉達還民7天假的訴求，現在從轉達者變成被轉達者，你是不是應該承諾願意站在當年洪委員或現在的洪部長跟勞工的立場，更積極的跟內政部長溝通，甚至直接說你支持，應該要還？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們持續跟相關部會包括內政部交換意見，也轉達勞工可能的各種期待，這事情我們這段時間都在做，但是確實現在法規的主管部會是內政部，就勞動部的角度跟勞動部的立場來說，我們認為這個議題有正向討論的空間。"],["廖委員偉翔：我希望部長，你還是要找回你當初真的希望為勞工降低工時的這個初衷，嚴正的為我們勞工發聲說，這7天假一定要還回來。","另外，有關於釋字807號同工不同酬和工會法相關的問題，性別薪資的差距，根據我們主計處在2022年的統計，臺灣女性勞工的平均薪資是男性的85.4%，換句話說就是打85折，也就是每年女性比男性少賺約58天的薪資，每年同酬日也是呈現這樣的狀況。釋字807號的解釋認定，勞基法第四十九條第一項限制女性勞工夜間工作行程的差別待遇，違反憲法保障性別平等的意旨，而且該條文在解釋公布之日起就開始失效了，但是勞動部目前除了發布函釋以外，好像沒有積極推動修法，真正落實性別平等。而且根據2018年的調查，27%的人曾經在職場遭遇到性別歧視；20%的人表示自己正處在同工不同酬的處境。所以想要請問一下勞動部，有沒有什麼具體的機制來檢舉同工不同酬或去改善同工不同酬的問題？還有包含過去三年勞動部處理了多少件同工不同酬的案件？認定違法的比例是多少？"],["黃司長維琛：跟委員報告，有關同工不同酬的部分，在性別平等工作法就有規定，不可以因為性別而有這種差別待遇，有這樣申訴的話，這個部分可以處罰30萬到150萬。我們現在也在努力推動，包括有一個事業單位自行檢視同工同酬的……"],["廖委員偉翔：請問過去三年大概處理了多少這樣的案件？認定違法比例是多少？"],["黃司長維琛：目前來說，在今年起包括勞檢的部分，它在勞檢出去的時候，就會把同工同酬這個檢核表帶到事業單位，請事業單位先來檢視，我們希望從這個部分先推動，第二個的話……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以還沒有具體的數字……"],["黃司長維琛：違法的部分有，我們會後再補給委員。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，我想要講的就是應該要有這樣的統計數字，讓我們明確地去推動，希望我們每一年的同酬日可以往前再縮短一些，好不好？"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝委員。"],["廖委員偉翔：OK，我今天質詢到這裡，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝廖委員、謝謝部長。","接下來請邱鎮軍委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":536,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-3","speakers":["劉建國","黃國昌","陳菁徽","林月琴","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王育敏","盧縣一","王正旭","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳培瑜","楊曜","高金素梅","陳昭姿","牛煦庭","張雅琳","黃捷","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","徐欣瑩","陳瑩"],"page_start":285,"meetingDate":["2025-03-19"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理113年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算決議有關勞動部預算凍結報告案 19案；二、邀請\n勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預\n算關於勞動部主管部分","agenda_id":"1142901_00005"}}}