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\"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 538.104, \"end\": 538.865, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 538.865, \"end\": 539.065, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 539.065, \"end\": 539.345, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 539.345, \"end\": 539.506, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 539.506, \"end\": 539.526, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,438 --> 00:00:10,763\n好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們是有請這個馬次長好請馬次長還有經濟部的曾副局長好曾副局長\n\n2\n00:00:13,803 --> 00:00:41,151\n委員早安好謝謝馬次長首先我還是今天要討論的是有關於這個災防法的議題那我首先還是要對這個內政部及這個警政消防給予肯定因為我相信在災害的發生內政部跟警政消防第一線我相信都做了最大的努力跟最及時的處理所以我還是要代表代表立法院代表所有國人感謝第一線執勤人的辛勞那可是我相信\n\n3\n00:00:41,431 --> 00:01:08,078\n今天委員們在質詢的部分很多也是希望說未來中央跟地方一起共同來合作在災害發生的過程中來去減少一些傷亡跟財產的損失所以第一個我要來請教次長的部分現在很多的我們的地下的管線還是有老舊的問題可能會潛藏重大的災害因為台灣的都市發展迅速基礎建設也是非常的密集\n\n4\n00:01:08,658 --> 00:01:31,851\n比如說像天然氣管線石化輸送管排水系統電力電信管線污水及排水相關設施這些重要的生命線基礎遍佈全台可是深埋在地底下導致常年有受到疏忽那相關的問題如果有因為管理不當而重生會造成公共安全的一個重大的隱憂那我想要請教這個次長\n\n5\n00:01:32,851 --> 00:01:59,821\n各個縣市如果地下管線已經使用超過30年那一般的這種腐蝕洩漏的問題嚴重可能會影響到公共安全的問題現在我們內政部有辦法統計有多少育齡的管線在使用那有沒有一些定期的監測機制然後如何來汰換這些老舊的管線這是一個很大的問題那我想像市長你現在有辦法來回答嗎\n\n6\n00:02:01,121 --> 00:02:19,330\n各位委員包括我們就內政部的部分先跟次長做回報先跟委員做回報對就是那個地下管線的部分我們在那個高雄氣爆之後已經有要求各事業主管機關把管線的資訊移交到我們的消防機關還有國科會\n\n7\n00:02:21,311 --> 00:02:43,074\n那我們目前在檔案的部分我們都有建立那管線的建置因為有不同的年代所以它不同的年代它在衛星定位跟這個管線的深埋的這個問題上面可能會有一些落差所以也透過這幾年我們在圖資上面不斷的更新目前當然我們對管線的位置跟它的深度大概都能夠掌握\n\n8\n00:02:43,815 --> 00:03:12,010\n但是就是圖資的部分我們沒有問題所以如果說哪一段管線它有狀況的話我們在119的系統在我們的EMIC的系統我們都看得到它在什麼位置但是剛剛委員所垂詢的有關於管線腐蝕老舊跟替換的問題因為主管機關目前是經濟部所以這個部分在管線管理的部分我們是不是可以請經濟部這邊來做一下回應好請經濟部的曾副局長謝謝\n\n9\n00:03:13,251 --> 00:03:18,576\n首先謝謝委員關心我們的業務那跟委員報告就是針對整個地下管線的部分不管是它的在做腐蝕相關的這個監控部分其實我們都有有在做我們的即時監控同時我們也會要求業者要提出針對整個的管線維護營運管理的計劃那每一年提出來之後我們隔年也都會配合相關的單位包含地方政府我們會去做這個相關查核的部分\n\n10\n00:03:38,153 --> 00:03:56,625\n好等一下謝謝副局長那這邊當然這個經濟部像中央政府單位其實都是以這個督導的方式來做那所以希望說未來跟地方政府的溝通就是說要定期就像副局長講的定期然後如果任何的問題其實大家可以多做溝通協調好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n\n11\n00:03:59,147 --> 00:04:25,596\n好那再請市長市長那我請教一下我看這個問題就是說現在我們很多的都會去就像剛剛不管講了高雄的過去的這個起爆事件大家都不想看到這樣的發生了那台灣都市區有有些道路我也常今年來發生的道路坍塌那許多案例跟地下管線的破損有或滲漏有關了但是你可以請教次長是不是有有辦法建立建立這些道路坍塌監測相關的一個機制\n\n12\n00:04:28,377 --> 00:04:52,115\n現在有這樣的機制嗎?跟委員回報,就是道路坍塌的機制部分目前我們應該是沒有相關的監測機制那道路主管機關因為分屬於交通部跟內政部各有不同的管轄的範圍那我們在平時的道路養護就是說在這個道路養護工程單位他會去做監測但是沒有一個剛剛委員所提到就是說一個比較完整的監測機制\n\n13\n00:04:53,516 --> 00:05:11,021\n好是不是請市長那你有沒有有沒有機會這個內政部可以提出相關的一個規劃就是說未來我們的道路除了去大家知道說平常要把它重新這個重新整修以外有沒有考慮說要提出這個有關於道路有可能坍塌牽涉的相關的機制\n\n14\n00:05:12,621 --> 00:05:35,431\n這個部分我們回頭請國土署那國土署這邊有關於管線的單位還有我們道路轄管的機關我們會去做這樣的一個尤其是雙北六都因為現在這個整個地狹人稠的一個部分所以我覺得未來就是道路灘它的部分如果可以提早的去了解那以及為周邊如果有一些重大建設的開挖其實相關的資料我就認為都可以給國土署做一個相對應的參考\n\n15\n00:05:38,122 --> 00:05:55,195\n好謝謝那第二個再請教我們那個馬次長的部分剛剛有特別提出來就是說有關於施工有時候誤挖平船塗資管理落後剛剛有講到高雄這個氣爆事件其實內政部已經有在協助的一個部分可是針對如果沒有發生重大\n\n16\n00:05:56,356 --> 00:06:23,090\n問題的這個地方是不是還是有突支的一些相關的問題所以才造成說這個有時候挖下去的時候發現說管道跟實際上的狀況不太一樣的問題那是不是說除了一些過去有發生災害的一個地方是不是其他有任何的經濟改善措施就是說來讓其他六都比較重要的一些城市地下管路突支的一些正確性\n\n17\n00:06:24,170 --> 00:06:28,210\n有沒有辦法建立一個全國性的地下管線投資登錄平台\n\n18\n00:06:30,442 --> 00:06:59,337\n跟委員報告目前就是說在我們地下管線的部分比較容易發生狀況是天然瓦斯的管線那其他有關於電力水力因為它分屬於不同的主管機關所以我們現在塗製的部分我們是有那至於說剛剛委員提到就是說施工單位本身它在面對這樣的一個施工環境裡面能不能夠掌握這個管線的位置這可能包括地方政府還有施工單位它要去做這樣的一個查核\n\n19\n00:07:00,097 --> 00:07:28,039\n所以內政部這邊我們會跟經濟部合作有關於管線的部分在道路底下的管線我們會去合作跟地方政府來合作但是如果說牽涉到施工的部分的話可能就要由地方政府跟施工單位來一起努力好那有沒有建立因為現在的圖資就我個人現在所了解都是在地方政府的這個施工單位去調相關的圖嘛那有沒有辦法說未來有建立全國的地下管線的圖資登錄平台\n\n20\n00:07:29,701 --> 00:07:34,934\n全國的地下管線都是在各自處理嗎?沒有,但是全國我們才\n\n21\n00:07:38,041 --> 00:08:04,241\n沒關係這個部分如果沒有辦法的話就是我們的期待啦好不好好那接下來我再請教經濟部好不好經濟部那目前來講齁這個台灣的天然氣的需求尤其現在台灣的電力政策能源政策是這個以氣來取代這個燃煤嘛齁所以天然氣的需求近年不大增加齁那目前靠一階跟二階來穩定供應天然氣並降低燃煤發電比例喔那這些輸氣管喔\n\n22\n00:08:05,362 --> 00:08:25,194\n那很多專家學者認為說這管線負荷很大的一些問題的狀況安全性跟穩定性真有疑慮那如果像一階二階的天然氣的輸送管是否承擔了高負荷的運送任務那有沒有做這個長期壓力有沒有做這個定期進行管線的壽命評估的這些作業\n\n23\n00:08:27,114 --> 00:08:46,791\n謝謝委員指導那這個部分可能後續我們再來跟中油或是我們部內的主管單位我們讓他確認一下那如果委員有需要我們再跟委員做進一步的報告好那最後還是感謝這個次長經濟部就有關於這個人民的安全就是說長期埋在地下的這些不管是\n\n24\n00:08:47,852 --> 00:08:59,526\n這個下水道還有剛剛講的這個天然氣比較容易有造成問題的部分還是希望說各部會跨部會來因應現在台灣的極端氣候等影響跟地震影響來做整體的規劃謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n438\t10763\t好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們是有請這個馬次長好請馬次長還有經濟部的曾副局長好曾副局長\n13803\t41151\t委員早安好謝謝馬次長首先我還是今天要討論的是有關於這個災防法的議題那我首先還是要對這個內政部及這個警政消防給予肯定因為我相信在災害的發生內政部跟警政消防第一線我相信都做了最大的努力跟最及時的處理所以我還是要代表代表立法院代表所有國人感謝第一線執勤人的辛勞那可是我相信\n41431\t68078\t今天委員們在質詢的部分很多也是希望說未來中央跟地方一起共同來合作在災害發生的過程中來去減少一些傷亡跟財產的損失所以第一個我要來請教次長的部分現在很多的我們的地下的管線還是有老舊的問題可能會潛藏重大的災害因為台灣的都市發展迅速基礎建設也是非常的密集\n68658\t91851\t比如說像天然氣管線石化輸送管排水系統電力電信管線污水及排水相關設施這些重要的生命線基礎遍佈全台可是深埋在地底下導致常年有受到疏忽那相關的問題如果有因為管理不當而重生會造成公共安全的一個重大的隱憂那我想要請教這個次長\n92851\t119821\t各個縣市如果地下管線已經使用超過30年那一般的這種腐蝕洩漏的問題嚴重可能會影響到公共安全的問題現在我們內政部有辦法統計有多少育齡的管線在使用那有沒有一些定期的監測機制然後如何來汰換這些老舊的管線這是一個很大的問題那我想像市長你現在有辦法來回答嗎\n121121\t139330\t各位委員包括我們就內政部的部分先跟次長做回報先跟委員做回報對 就是那個地下管線的部分我們在那個高雄氣爆之後已經有要求各事業主管機關把管線的資訊移交到我們的消防機關還有國科會\n141311\t163074\t那我們目前在檔案的部分我們都有建立那管線的建置因為有不同的年代所以它不同的年代它在衛星定位跟這個管線的深埋的這個問題上面可能會有一些落差所以也透過這幾年我們在圖資上面不斷的更新目前當然我們對管線的位置跟它的深度大概都能夠掌握\n163815\t192010\t但是就是圖資的部分我們沒有問題所以如果說哪一段管線它有狀況的話我們在119的系統在我們的EMIC的系統我們都看得到它在什麼位置但是剛剛委員所垂詢的有關於管線腐蝕老舊跟替換的問題因為主管機關目前是經濟部所以這個部分在管線管理的部分我們是不是可以請經濟部這邊來做一下回應好請經濟部的曾副局長謝謝\n193251\t198576\t首先謝謝委員關心我們的業務那跟委員報告就是針對整個地下管線的部分不管是它的在做腐蝕相關的這個監控部分其實我們都有有在做我們的即時監控同時我們也會要求業者要提出針對整個的管線維護營運管理的計劃那每一年提出來之後我們隔年也都會配合相關的單位包含地方政府我們會去做這個相關查核的部分\n218153\t236625\t好等一下謝謝副局長那這邊當然這個經濟部像中央政府單位其實都是以這個督導的方式來做那所以希望說未來跟地方政府的溝通就是說要定期就像副局長講的定期然後如果任何的問題其實大家可以多做溝通協調好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n239147\t265596\t好那再請市長市長那我請教一下我看這個問題就是說現在我們很多的都會去就像剛剛不管講了高雄的過去的這個起爆事件大家都不想看到這樣的發生了那台灣都市區有有些道路我也常今年來發生的道路坍塌那許多案例跟地下管線的破損有或滲漏有關了但是你可以請教次長是不是有有辦法建立建立這些道路坍塌監測相關的一個機制\n268377\t292115\t現在有這樣的機制嗎?跟委員回報,就是道路坍塌的機制部分目前我們應該是沒有相關的監測機制那道路主管機關因為分屬於交通部跟內政部各有不同的管轄的範圍那我們在平時的道路養護就是說在這個道路養護工程單位他會去做監測但是沒有一個剛剛委員所提到就是說一個比較完整的監測機制\n293516\t311021\t好是不是請市長那你有沒有有沒有機會這個內政部可以提出相關的一個規劃就是說未來我們的道路除了去大家知道說平常要把它重新這個重新整修以外有沒有考慮說要提出這個有關於道路有可能坍塌牽涉的相關的機制\n312621\t335431\t這個部分我們回頭請國土署那國土署這邊有關於管線的單位還有我們道路轄管的機關我們會去做這樣的一個尤其是雙北六都因為現在這個整個地狹人稠的一個部分所以我覺得未來就是道路灘它的部分如果可以提早的去了解那以及為周邊如果有一些重大建設的開挖其實相關的資料我就認為都可以給國土署做一個相對應的參考\n338122\t355195\t好 謝謝那第二個再請教我們那個馬次長的部分剛剛有特別提出來就是說有關於施工有時候誤挖平船塗資管理落後剛剛有講到高雄這個氣爆事件其實內政部已經有在協助的一個部分可是針對如果沒有發生重大\n356356\t383090\t問題的這個地方是不是還是有突支的一些相關的問題所以才造成說這個有時候挖下去的時候發現說管道跟實際上的狀況不太一樣的問題那是不是說除了一些過去有發生災害的一個地方是不是其他有任何的經濟改善措施就是說來讓其他六都比較重要的一些城市地下管路突支的一些正確性\n384170\t388210\t有沒有辦法建立一個全國性的地下管線投資登錄平台\n390442\t419337\t跟委員報告目前就是說在我們地下管線的部分比較容易發生狀況是天然瓦斯的管線那其他有關於電力水力因為它分屬於不同的主管機關所以我們現在塗製的部分我們是有那至於說剛剛委員提到就是說施工單位本身它在面對這樣的一個施工環境裡面能不能夠掌握這個管線的位置這可能包括地方政府還有施工單位它要去做這樣的一個查核\n420097\t448039\t所以內政部這邊我們會跟經濟部合作有關於管線的部分在道路底下的管線我們會去合作跟地方政府來合作但是如果說牽涉到施工的部分的話可能就要由地方政府跟施工單位來一起努力好 那有沒有建立因為現在的圖資就我個人現在所了解都是在地方政府的這個施工單位去調相關的圖嘛那有沒有辦法說未來有建立全國的地下管線的圖資登錄平台\n449701\t454934\t全國的地下管線都是在各自處理嗎?沒有,但是全國我們才\n458041\t484241\t沒關係這個部分如果沒有辦法的話就是我們的期待啦好不好好那接下來我再請教經濟部好不好經濟部那目前來講齁這個台灣的天然氣的需求尤其現在台灣的電力政策能源政策是這個以氣來取代這個燃煤嘛齁所以天然氣的需求近年不大增加齁那目前靠一階跟二階來穩定供應天然氣並降低燃煤發電比例喔那這些輸氣管喔\n485362\t505194\t那很多專家學者認為說這管線負荷很大的一些問題的狀況安全性跟穩定性真有疑慮那如果像一階二階的天然氣的輸送管是否承擔了高負荷的運送任務那有沒有做這個長期壓力有沒有做這個定期進行管線的壽命評估的這些作業\n507114\t526791\t謝謝委員指導那這個部分可能後續我們再來跟中油或是我們部內的主管單位我們讓他確認一下那如果委員有需要我們再跟委員做進一步的報告好那最後還是感謝這個次長經濟部就有關於這個人民的安全就是說長期埋在地下的這些不管是\n527852\t539526\t這個下水道還有剛剛講的這個天然氣比較容易有造成問題的部分還是希望說各部會跨部會來因應現在台灣的極端氣候等影響跟地震影響來做整體的規劃謝謝謝謝委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們是有請這個馬次長好請馬次長還有經濟部的曾副局長好曾副局長\n委員早安好謝謝馬次長首先我還是今天要討論的是有關於這個災防法的議題那我首先還是要對這個內政部及這個警政消防給予肯定因為我相信在災害的發生內政部跟警政消防第一線我相信都做了最大的努力跟最及時的處理所以我還是要代表代表立法院代表所有國人感謝第一線執勤人的辛勞那可是我相信\n今天委員們在質詢的部分很多也是希望說未來中央跟地方一起共同來合作在災害發生的過程中來去減少一些傷亡跟財產的損失所以第一個我要來請教次長的部分現在很多的我們的地下的管線還是有老舊的問題可能會潛藏重大的災害因為台灣的都市發展迅速基礎建設也是非常的密集\n比如說像天然氣管線石化輸送管排水系統電力電信管線污水及排水相關設施這些重要的生命線基礎遍佈全台可是深埋在地底下導致常年有受到疏忽那相關的問題如果有因為管理不當而重生會造成公共安全的一個重大的隱憂那我想要請教這個次長\n各個縣市如果地下管線已經使用超過30年那一般的這種腐蝕洩漏的問題嚴重可能會影響到公共安全的問題現在我們內政部有辦法統計有多少育齡的管線在使用那有沒有一些定期的監測機制然後如何來汰換這些老舊的管線這是一個很大的問題那我想像市長你現在有辦法來回答嗎\n各位委員包括我們就內政部的部分先跟次長做回報先跟委員做回報對 就是那個地下管線的部分我們在那個高雄氣爆之後已經有要求各事業主管機關把管線的資訊移交到我們的消防機關還有國科會\n那我們目前在檔案的部分我們都有建立那管線的建置因為有不同的年代所以它不同的年代它在衛星定位跟這個管線的深埋的這個問題上面可能會有一些落差所以也透過這幾年我們在圖資上面不斷的更新目前當然我們對管線的位置跟它的深度大概都能夠掌握\n但是就是圖資的部分我們沒有問題所以如果說哪一段管線它有狀況的話我們在119的系統在我們的EMIC的系統我們都看得到它在什麼位置但是剛剛委員所垂詢的有關於管線腐蝕老舊跟替換的問題因為主管機關目前是經濟部所以這個部分在管線管理的部分我們是不是可以請經濟部這邊來做一下回應好請經濟部的曾副局長謝謝\n首先謝謝委員關心我們的業務那跟委員報告就是針對整個地下管線的部分不管是它的在做腐蝕相關的這個監控部分其實我們都有有在做我們的即時監控同時我們也會要求業者要提出針對整個的管線維護營運管理的計劃那每一年提出來之後我們隔年也都會配合相關的單位包含地方政府我們會去做這個相關查核的部分\n好等一下謝謝副局長那這邊當然這個經濟部像中央政府單位其實都是以這個督導的方式來做那所以希望說未來跟地方政府的溝通就是說要定期就像副局長講的定期然後如果任何的問題其實大家可以多做溝通協調好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n好那再請市長市長那我請教一下我看這個問題就是說現在我們很多的都會去就像剛剛不管講了高雄的過去的這個起爆事件大家都不想看到這樣的發生了那台灣都市區有有些道路我也常今年來發生的道路坍塌那許多案例跟地下管線的破損有或滲漏有關了但是你可以請教次長是不是有有辦法建立建立這些道路坍塌監測相關的一個機制\n現在有這樣的機制嗎?跟委員回報,就是道路坍塌的機制部分目前我們應該是沒有相關的監測機制那道路主管機關因為分屬於交通部跟內政部各有不同的管轄的範圍那我們在平時的道路養護就是說在這個道路養護工程單位他會去做監測但是沒有一個剛剛委員所提到就是說一個比較完整的監測機制\n好是不是請市長那你有沒有有沒有機會這個內政部可以提出相關的一個規劃就是說未來我們的道路除了去大家知道說平常要把它重新這個重新整修以外有沒有考慮說要提出這個有關於道路有可能坍塌牽涉的相關的機制\n這個部分我們回頭請國土署那國土署這邊有關於管線的單位還有我們道路轄管的機關我們會去做這樣的一個尤其是雙北六都因為現在這個整個地狹人稠的一個部分所以我覺得未來就是道路灘它的部分如果可以提早的去了解那以及為周邊如果有一些重大建設的開挖其實相關的資料我就認為都可以給國土署做一個相對應的參考\n好 謝謝那第二個再請教我們那個馬次長的部分剛剛有特別提出來就是說有關於施工有時候誤挖平船塗資管理落後剛剛有講到高雄這個氣爆事件其實內政部已經有在協助的一個部分可是針對如果沒有發生重大\n問題的這個地方是不是還是有突支的一些相關的問題所以才造成說這個有時候挖下去的時候發現說管道跟實際上的狀況不太一樣的問題那是不是說除了一些過去有發生災害的一個地方是不是其他有任何的經濟改善措施就是說來讓其他六都比較重要的一些城市地下管路突支的一些正確性\n有沒有辦法建立一個全國性的地下管線投資登錄平台\n跟委員報告目前就是說在我們地下管線的部分比較容易發生狀況是天然瓦斯的管線那其他有關於電力水力因為它分屬於不同的主管機關所以我們現在塗製的部分我們是有那至於說剛剛委員提到就是說施工單位本身它在面對這樣的一個施工環境裡面能不能夠掌握這個管線的位置這可能包括地方政府還有施工單位它要去做這樣的一個查核\n所以內政部這邊我們會跟經濟部合作有關於管線的部分在道路底下的管線我們會去合作跟地方政府來合作但是如果說牽涉到施工的部分的話可能就要由地方政府跟施工單位來一起努力好 那有沒有建立因為現在的圖資就我個人現在所了解都是在地方政府的這個施工單位去調相關的圖嘛那有沒有辦法說未來有建立全國的地下管線的圖資登錄平台\n全國的地下管線都是在各自處理嗎?沒有,但是全國我們才\n沒關係這個部分如果沒有辦法的話就是我們的期待啦好不好好那接下來我再請教經濟部好不好經濟部那目前來講齁這個台灣的天然氣的需求尤其現在台灣的電力政策能源政策是這個以氣來取代這個燃煤嘛齁所以天然氣的需求近年不大增加齁那目前靠一階跟二階來穩定供應天然氣並降低燃煤發電比例喔那這些輸氣管喔\n那很多專家學者認為說這管線負荷很大的一些問題的狀況安全性跟穩定性真有疑慮那如果像一階二階的天然氣的輸送管是否承擔了高負荷的運送任務那有沒有做這個長期壓力有沒有做這個定期進行管線的壽命評估的這些作業\n謝謝委員指導那這個部分可能後續我們再來跟中油或是我們部內的主管單位我們讓他確認一下那如果委員有需要我們再跟委員做進一步的報告好那最後還是感謝這個次長經濟部就有關於這個人民的安全就是說長期埋在地下的這些不管是\n這個下水道還有剛剛講的這個天然氣比較容易有造成問題的部分還是希望說各部會跨部會來因應現在台灣的極端氣候等影響跟地震影響來做整體的規劃謝謝謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.438 --> 00:10.763\n好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們是有請這個馬次長好請馬次長還有經濟部的曾副局長好曾副局長\n\n00:13.803 --> 00:41.151\n委員早安好謝謝馬次長首先我還是今天要討論的是有關於這個災防法的議題那我首先還是要對這個內政部及這個警政消防給予肯定因為我相信在災害的發生內政部跟警政消防第一線我相信都做了最大的努力跟最及時的處理所以我還是要代表代表立法院代表所有國人感謝第一線執勤人的辛勞那可是我相信\n\n00:41.431 --> 01:08.078\n今天委員們在質詢的部分很多也是希望說未來中央跟地方一起共同來合作在災害發生的過程中來去減少一些傷亡跟財產的損失所以第一個我要來請教次長的部分現在很多的我們的地下的管線還是有老舊的問題可能會潛藏重大的災害因為台灣的都市發展迅速基礎建設也是非常的密集\n\n01:08.658 --> 01:31.851\n比如說像天然氣管線石化輸送管排水系統電力電信管線污水及排水相關設施這些重要的生命線基礎遍佈全台可是深埋在地底下導致常年有受到疏忽那相關的問題如果有因為管理不當而重生會造成公共安全的一個重大的隱憂那我想要請教這個次長\n\n01:32.851 --> 01:59.821\n各個縣市如果地下管線已經使用超過30年那一般的這種腐蝕洩漏的問題嚴重可能會影響到公共安全的問題現在我們內政部有辦法統計有多少育齡的管線在使用那有沒有一些定期的監測機制然後如何來汰換這些老舊的管線這是一個很大的問題那我想像市長你現在有辦法來回答嗎\n\n02:01.121 --> 02:19.330\n各位委員包括我們就內政部的部分先跟次長做回報先跟委員做回報對就是那個地下管線的部分我們在那個高雄氣爆之後已經有要求各事業主管機關把管線的資訊移交到我們的消防機關還有國科會\n\n02:21.311 --> 02:43.074\n那我們目前在檔案的部分我們都有建立那管線的建置因為有不同的年代所以它不同的年代它在衛星定位跟這個管線的深埋的這個問題上面可能會有一些落差所以也透過這幾年我們在圖資上面不斷的更新目前當然我們對管線的位置跟它的深度大概都能夠掌握\n\n02:43.815 --> 03:12.010\n但是就是圖資的部分我們沒有問題所以如果說哪一段管線它有狀況的話我們在119的系統在我們的EMIC的系統我們都看得到它在什麼位置但是剛剛委員所垂詢的有關於管線腐蝕老舊跟替換的問題因為主管機關目前是經濟部所以這個部分在管線管理的部分我們是不是可以請經濟部這邊來做一下回應好請經濟部的曾副局長謝謝\n\n03:13.251 --> 03:18.576\n首先謝謝委員關心我們的業務那跟委員報告就是針對整個地下管線的部分不管是它的在做腐蝕相關的這個監控部分其實我們都有有在做我們的即時監控同時我們也會要求業者要提出針對整個的管線維護營運管理的計劃那每一年提出來之後我們隔年也都會配合相關的單位包含地方政府我們會去做這個相關查核的部分\n\n03:38.153 --> 03:56.625\n好等一下謝謝副局長那這邊當然這個經濟部像中央政府單位其實都是以這個督導的方式來做那所以希望說未來跟地方政府的溝通就是說要定期就像副局長講的定期然後如果任何的問題其實大家可以多做溝通協調好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n\n03:59.147 --> 04:25.596\n好那再請市長市長那我請教一下我看這個問題就是說現在我們很多的都會去就像剛剛不管講了高雄的過去的這個起爆事件大家都不想看到這樣的發生了那台灣都市區有有些道路我也常今年來發生的道路坍塌那許多案例跟地下管線的破損有或滲漏有關了但是你可以請教次長是不是有有辦法建立建立這些道路坍塌監測相關的一個機制\n\n04:28.377 --> 04:52.115\n現在有這樣的機制嗎?跟委員回報,就是道路坍塌的機制部分目前我們應該是沒有相關的監測機制那道路主管機關因為分屬於交通部跟內政部各有不同的管轄的範圍那我們在平時的道路養護就是說在這個道路養護工程單位他會去做監測但是沒有一個剛剛委員所提到就是說一個比較完整的監測機制\n\n04:53.516 --> 05:11.021\n好是不是請市長那你有沒有有沒有機會這個內政部可以提出相關的一個規劃就是說未來我們的道路除了去大家知道說平常要把它重新這個重新整修以外有沒有考慮說要提出這個有關於道路有可能坍塌牽涉的相關的機制\n\n05:12.621 --> 05:35.431\n這個部分我們回頭請國土署那國土署這邊有關於管線的單位還有我們道路轄管的機關我們會去做這樣的一個尤其是雙北六都因為現在這個整個地狹人稠的一個部分所以我覺得未來就是道路灘它的部分如果可以提早的去了解那以及為周邊如果有一些重大建設的開挖其實相關的資料我就認為都可以給國土署做一個相對應的參考\n\n05:38.122 --> 05:55.195\n好謝謝那第二個再請教我們那個馬次長的部分剛剛有特別提出來就是說有關於施工有時候誤挖平船塗資管理落後剛剛有講到高雄這個氣爆事件其實內政部已經有在協助的一個部分可是針對如果沒有發生重大\n\n05:56.356 --> 06:23.090\n問題的這個地方是不是還是有突支的一些相關的問題所以才造成說這個有時候挖下去的時候發現說管道跟實際上的狀況不太一樣的問題那是不是說除了一些過去有發生災害的一個地方是不是其他有任何的經濟改善措施就是說來讓其他六都比較重要的一些城市地下管路突支的一些正確性\n\n06:24.170 --> 06:28.210\n有沒有辦法建立一個全國性的地下管線投資登錄平台\n\n06:30.442 --> 06:59.337\n跟委員報告目前就是說在我們地下管線的部分比較容易發生狀況是天然瓦斯的管線那其他有關於電力水力因為它分屬於不同的主管機關所以我們現在塗製的部分我們是有那至於說剛剛委員提到就是說施工單位本身它在面對這樣的一個施工環境裡面能不能夠掌握這個管線的位置這可能包括地方政府還有施工單位它要去做這樣的一個查核\n\n07:00.097 --> 07:28.039\n所以內政部這邊我們會跟經濟部合作有關於管線的部分在道路底下的管線我們會去合作跟地方政府來合作但是如果說牽涉到施工的部分的話可能就要由地方政府跟施工單位來一起努力好那有沒有建立因為現在的圖資就我個人現在所了解都是在地方政府的這個施工單位去調相關的圖嘛那有沒有辦法說未來有建立全國的地下管線的圖資登錄平台\n\n07:29.701 --> 07:34.934\n全國的地下管線都是在各自處理嗎?沒有,但是全國我們才\n\n07:38.041 --> 08:04.241\n沒關係這個部分如果沒有辦法的話就是我們的期待啦好不好好那接下來我再請教經濟部好不好經濟部那目前來講齁這個台灣的天然氣的需求尤其現在台灣的電力政策能源政策是這個以氣來取代這個燃煤嘛齁所以天然氣的需求近年不大增加齁那目前靠一階跟二階來穩定供應天然氣並降低燃煤發電比例喔那這些輸氣管喔\n\n08:05.362 --> 08:25.194\n那很多專家學者認為說這管線負荷很大的一些問題的狀況安全性跟穩定性真有疑慮那如果像一階二階的天然氣的輸送管是否承擔了高負荷的運送任務那有沒有做這個長期壓力有沒有做這個定期進行管線的壽命評估的這些作業\n\n08:27.114 --> 08:46.791\n謝謝委員指導那這個部分可能後續我們再來跟中油或是我們部內的主管單位我們讓他確認一下那如果委員有需要我們再跟委員做進一步的報告好那最後還是感謝這個次長經濟部就有關於這個人民的安全就是說長期埋在地下的這些不管是\n\n08:47.852 --> 08:59.526\n這個下水道還有剛剛講的這個天然氣比較容易有造成問題的部分還是希望說各部會跨部會來因應現在台灣的極端氣候等影響跟地震影響來做整體的規劃謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.438,"end":10.763,"text":"好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們是有請這個馬次長好請馬次長還有經濟部的曾副局長好曾副局長"},{"start":13.803,"end":41.151,"text":"委員早安好謝謝馬次長首先我還是今天要討論的是有關於這個災防法的議題那我首先還是要對這個內政部及這個警政消防給予肯定因為我相信在災害的發生內政部跟警政消防第一線我相信都做了最大的努力跟最及時的處理所以我還是要代表代表立法院代表所有國人感謝第一線執勤人的辛勞那可是我相信"},{"start":41.431,"end":68.078,"text":"今天委員們在質詢的部分很多也是希望說未來中央跟地方一起共同來合作在災害發生的過程中來去減少一些傷亡跟財產的損失所以第一個我要來請教次長的部分現在很多的我們的地下的管線還是有老舊的問題可能會潛藏重大的災害因為台灣的都市發展迅速基礎建設也是非常的密集"},{"start":68.658,"end":91.851,"text":"比如說像天然氣管線石化輸送管排水系統電力電信管線污水及排水相關設施這些重要的生命線基礎遍佈全台可是深埋在地底下導致常年有受到疏忽那相關的問題如果有因為管理不當而重生會造成公共安全的一個重大的隱憂那我想要請教這個次長"},{"start":92.851,"end":119.821,"text":"各個縣市如果地下管線已經使用超過30年那一般的這種腐蝕洩漏的問題嚴重可能會影響到公共安全的問題現在我們內政部有辦法統計有多少育齡的管線在使用那有沒有一些定期的監測機制然後如何來汰換這些老舊的管線這是一個很大的問題那我想像市長你現在有辦法來回答嗎"},{"start":121.121,"end":139.33,"text":"各位委員包括我們就內政部的部分先跟次長做回報先跟委員做回報對 就是那個地下管線的部分我們在那個高雄氣爆之後已經有要求各事業主管機關把管線的資訊移交到我們的消防機關還有國科會"},{"start":141.311,"end":163.074,"text":"那我們目前在檔案的部分我們都有建立那管線的建置因為有不同的年代所以它不同的年代它在衛星定位跟這個管線的深埋的這個問題上面可能會有一些落差所以也透過這幾年我們在圖資上面不斷的更新目前當然我們對管線的位置跟它的深度大概都能夠掌握"},{"start":163.815,"end":192.01,"text":"但是就是圖資的部分我們沒有問題所以如果說哪一段管線它有狀況的話我們在119的系統在我們的EMIC的系統我們都看得到它在什麼位置但是剛剛委員所垂詢的有關於管線腐蝕老舊跟替換的問題因為主管機關目前是經濟部所以這個部分在管線管理的部分我們是不是可以請經濟部這邊來做一下回應好請經濟部的曾副局長謝謝"},{"start":193.251,"end":198.576,"text":"首先謝謝委員關心我們的業務那跟委員報告就是針對整個地下管線的部分不管是它的在做腐蝕相關的這個監控部分其實我們都有有在做我們的即時監控同時我們也會要求業者要提出針對整個的管線維護營運管理的計劃那每一年提出來之後我們隔年也都會配合相關的單位包含地方政府我們會去做這個相關查核的部分"},{"start":218.153,"end":236.625,"text":"好等一下謝謝副局長那這邊當然這個經濟部像中央政府單位其實都是以這個督導的方式來做那所以希望說未來跟地方政府的溝通就是說要定期就像副局長講的定期然後如果任何的問題其實大家可以多做溝通協調好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":239.147,"end":265.596,"text":"好那再請市長市長那我請教一下我看這個問題就是說現在我們很多的都會去就像剛剛不管講了高雄的過去的這個起爆事件大家都不想看到這樣的發生了那台灣都市區有有些道路我也常今年來發生的道路坍塌那許多案例跟地下管線的破損有或滲漏有關了但是你可以請教次長是不是有有辦法建立建立這些道路坍塌監測相關的一個機制"},{"start":268.377,"end":292.115,"text":"現在有這樣的機制嗎?跟委員回報,就是道路坍塌的機制部分目前我們應該是沒有相關的監測機制那道路主管機關因為分屬於交通部跟內政部各有不同的管轄的範圍那我們在平時的道路養護就是說在這個道路養護工程單位他會去做監測但是沒有一個剛剛委員所提到就是說一個比較完整的監測機制"},{"start":293.516,"end":311.021,"text":"好是不是請市長那你有沒有有沒有機會這個內政部可以提出相關的一個規劃就是說未來我們的道路除了去大家知道說平常要把它重新這個重新整修以外有沒有考慮說要提出這個有關於道路有可能坍塌牽涉的相關的機制"},{"start":312.621,"end":335.431,"text":"這個部分我們回頭請國土署那國土署這邊有關於管線的單位還有我們道路轄管的機關我們會去做這樣的一個尤其是雙北六都因為現在這個整個地狹人稠的一個部分所以我覺得未來就是道路灘它的部分如果可以提早的去了解那以及為周邊如果有一些重大建設的開挖其實相關的資料我就認為都可以給國土署做一個相對應的參考"},{"start":338.122,"end":355.195,"text":"好 謝謝那第二個再請教我們那個馬次長的部分剛剛有特別提出來就是說有關於施工有時候誤挖平船塗資管理落後剛剛有講到高雄這個氣爆事件其實內政部已經有在協助的一個部分可是針對如果沒有發生重大"},{"start":356.356,"end":383.09,"text":"問題的這個地方是不是還是有突支的一些相關的問題所以才造成說這個有時候挖下去的時候發現說管道跟實際上的狀況不太一樣的問題那是不是說除了一些過去有發生災害的一個地方是不是其他有任何的經濟改善措施就是說來讓其他六都比較重要的一些城市地下管路突支的一些正確性"},{"start":384.17,"end":388.21,"text":"有沒有辦法建立一個全國性的地下管線投資登錄平台"},{"start":390.442,"end":419.337,"text":"跟委員報告目前就是說在我們地下管線的部分比較容易發生狀況是天然瓦斯的管線那其他有關於電力水力因為它分屬於不同的主管機關所以我們現在塗製的部分我們是有那至於說剛剛委員提到就是說施工單位本身它在面對這樣的一個施工環境裡面能不能夠掌握這個管線的位置這可能包括地方政府還有施工單位它要去做這樣的一個查核"},{"start":420.097,"end":448.039,"text":"所以內政部這邊我們會跟經濟部合作有關於管線的部分在道路底下的管線我們會去合作跟地方政府來合作但是如果說牽涉到施工的部分的話可能就要由地方政府跟施工單位來一起努力好 那有沒有建立因為現在的圖資就我個人現在所了解都是在地方政府的這個施工單位去調相關的圖嘛那有沒有辦法說未來有建立全國的地下管線的圖資登錄平台"},{"start":449.701,"end":454.934,"text":"全國的地下管線都是在各自處理嗎?沒有,但是全國我們才"},{"start":458.041,"end":484.241,"text":"沒關係這個部分如果沒有辦法的話就是我們的期待啦好不好好那接下來我再請教經濟部好不好經濟部那目前來講齁這個台灣的天然氣的需求尤其現在台灣的電力政策能源政策是這個以氣來取代這個燃煤嘛齁所以天然氣的需求近年不大增加齁那目前靠一階跟二階來穩定供應天然氣並降低燃煤發電比例喔那這些輸氣管喔"},{"start":485.362,"end":505.194,"text":"那很多專家學者認為說這管線負荷很大的一些問題的狀況安全性跟穩定性真有疑慮那如果像一階二階的天然氣的輸送管是否承擔了高負荷的運送任務那有沒有做這個長期壓力有沒有做這個定期進行管線的壽命評估的這些作業"},{"start":507.114,"end":526.791,"text":"謝謝委員指導那這個部分可能後續我們再來跟中油或是我們部內的主管單位我們讓他確認一下那如果委員有需要我們再跟委員做進一步的報告好那最後還是感謝這個次長經濟部就有關於這個人民的安全就是說長期埋在地下的這些不管是"},{"start":527.852,"end":539.526,"text":"這個下水道還有剛剛講的這個天然氣比較容易有造成問題的部分還是希望說各部會跨部會來因應現在台灣的極端氣候等影響跟地震影響來做整體的規劃謝謝謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":211,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（9時22分）謝謝主席。各位委員、各位官員，大家早。有請馬次長，還有經濟部曾副局長。"],["主席：馬次長、曾副局長。"],["馬次長士元：委員早安。"],["張委員智倫：謝謝馬次長。今天要討論的是有關於災防法的議題，我首先還是要對內政部及警政、消防給予肯定，因為在災害發生時，內政部跟第一線的警政、消防應該都做了最大的努力和最及時的處理，所以我還是要代表立法院、代表所有國人感謝第一線執勤人員的辛勞，我相信今天委員們質詢的部分，很多都是希望未來中央跟地方可以一起共同合作，在災害發生的過程中，能夠減少一些傷亡跟財產損失。所以第一個我要請教次長的是，現在我們很多地下管線都還有老舊的問題，可能潛藏重大災害，因為臺灣的都市發展迅速，基礎建設也非常密集，比如像天然氣管線、石化輸送管、排水系統、電力、電信管線、污水及排水相關設施等，這些重要的基礎生命線遍布全臺，可是因為深埋地底下，導致長年受到疏忽，相關的問題，如果有因為管理不當而弊病叢生，常會成為公共安全上的一個重大隱憂。各個縣市如果地下管線已經使用超過30年，一般的腐蝕、洩漏問題嚴重，可能會影響到公共安全，請問次長，現在內政部有辦法統計有多少逾齡管線在使用嗎？你們有沒有一些定期監測機制，又如何汰換這些老舊管線？這是一個很大的問題，次長，你現在有辦法回答嗎？"],["馬次長士元：跟委員報告，我們就內政部的部分先跟委員回報……"],["張委員智倫：對，就是地下管線的部分。"],["馬次長士元：我們在高雄氣爆之後，已經有要求各事業主管機關把管線的資訊移交到消防機關及國科會，目前檔案的部分我們都有建立。管線的建置有不同的年代，而不同的年代在衛星定位跟管線深埋問題上，可能就會有一些落差。所以這幾年也透過我們在圖資上面不斷地更新，目前當然我們對管線的位置跟它的深度大概都能夠掌握；在圖資的部分，我們沒有問題，如果哪一段管線有狀況的話，我們在119系統、在EMIC系統，我們都看得到它在什麼位置。但是剛剛委員所垂詢的關於管線腐蝕、老舊跟替換的問題，因為主管機關目前是經濟部，所以在管線管理的部分，我們是不是可以請經濟部來做一下回應？謝謝。"],["張委員智倫：可以、可以。好，請經濟部曾副局長，謝謝。"],["曾副局長琡芬：首先謝謝委員關心我們的業務。跟委員報告，針對整個地下管線的部分，不管是在做腐蝕相關的監控，其實我們都有在做即時監控，同時我們也會要求業者提出針對整個管線維護、營運管理的計畫，在每一年提出來之後，隔年也都會配合相關的單位，包含地方政府，我們會去做相關的查核，以上報告。"],["張委員智倫：謝謝副局長。當然像經濟部、中央政府單位都是以督導的方式來做，所以希望未來跟地方政府的溝通要定期，就像副局長講的定期，如果有任何的問題，其實大家可以多做溝通、協調，謝謝。"],["曾副局長琡芬：謝謝委員。"],["張委員智倫：再請次長。次長，我請教一下這個問題，現在我們很多的都會區，就像剛剛講的過去高雄的氣爆事件，大家都不想看到這樣的事發生，臺灣都市區有些道路今年也常發生道路坍塌，許多案例跟地下管線的破損或滲漏有關，是不是可以請教次長，是不是有辦法建立道路坍塌監測相關的機制？現在有這樣的機制嗎？"],["馬次長士元：跟委員回報，對道路坍塌的部分，目前我們應該是沒有相關的監測機制，因為道路主管機關分屬於交通部跟內政部，各有不同的管轄範圍，在平時道路養護工程單位會去做監測，但是沒有如剛剛委員所提到的有比較完整的監測機制。"],["張委員智倫：好。次長，有沒有機會由內政部可以提出相關的規劃？未來我們的道路，除了大家知道的平常要把它重新整修以外，有沒有考慮要提出關於道路有可能坍塌監測相關的機制？"],["馬次長士元：跟委員報告，這部分我們回頭請國土署有關於管線的單位，還有道路轄管的機關，我們會去做這樣的努力。"],["張委員智倫：尤其是雙北、六都，因為現在整個地狹人稠，我覺得未來對道路坍塌的部分，如果可以提早去瞭解，以及周邊如果有一些重大建設的開挖，我認為相關的資料都可以給國土署做相對應的參考，謝謝。"],["馬次長士元：謝謝委員。"],["張委員智倫：第二個，再請教馬次長，剛剛有特別提出來，關於施工有時候誤挖頻傳、圖資管理落後，剛剛有講到高雄的氣爆事件，其實內政部已經有在協助，可是針對如果沒有發生重大問題的地方，是不是還是有一些圖資問題，所以才造成有時候挖下去，發現管道跟實際上狀況不太一樣的問題。除了一些過去有發生災害的地方，是不是有任何精進的改善措施，來讓其他六都、比較重要的一些城市，針對地下管路圖資的正確性，有沒有辦法建立一個全國性的地下管線圖資登錄平臺？"],["馬次長士元：跟委員報告，目前在地下管線的部分，比較容易發生狀況的是天然瓦斯管線，其他有關於電力、水力，因為它分屬於不同的主管機關，所以現在我們是有圖資的部分，至於剛剛委員提到的施工單位本身在面對施工環境裡面，能不能夠掌握管線的位置，包括地方政府，還有施工單位，它要去這樣的查核。在道路底下的管線，內政部會跟經濟部合作，也會跟地方政府合作，但是如果牽涉到施工的部分，可能就要由地方政府跟施工單位一起努力。"],["張委員智倫：好。那有沒有建立？因為現在的圖資，就我個人現在所瞭解，都是在地方政府的施工單位去調相關的圖，有沒有辦法未來建立全國地下管線的圖資登錄平臺？"],["馬次長士元：全國地下管線都是各自在處理的，但是全國我們在……"],["張委員智倫：沒關係，這部分如果沒有辦法的話，這是我們的期待，好不好？接下來我再請教經濟部，目前來講，臺灣天然氣的需求，尤其現在臺灣的電力政策、能源政策是以氣來取代燃煤，所以天然氣的需求近年不斷地增加，目前靠一接跟二接來穩定供應天然氣，並降低燃煤發電比例，當然很多專家學者認為管線負荷很大的狀況，其安全性跟穩定性仍有疑慮，像一接、二接的天然氣輸送管是否承擔了高負荷的運送任務，有沒有定期進行管線壽命評估的作業？"],["曾副局長琡芬：謝謝委員指導。這個部分可能後續我們再來跟中油，或者是部內的主管單位，我們跟他們確認一下，如果委員有需要，我們再跟委員做進一步的報告。"],["張委員智倫：好。最後，還是要感謝次長、經濟部就有關於人民的安全，對長期埋在地下的這些，不管是下水道，還有剛剛講的天然氣管線比較容易造成問題的部分，還是希望跨部會因應現在臺灣極端氣候跟地震的影響來做整體規劃，謝謝。"],["馬次長士元：謝謝委員。"],["主席：我們請麥玉珍委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":48,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-4","speakers":["張宏陸","丁學忠","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","李柏毅","王美惠","黃建賓","許宇甄","楊瓊瓔","吳琪銘","黃捷","徐欣瑩","高金素梅"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-19"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「災害防救法第三條及第十九條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委\n員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「災害防救法第三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具\n「災害防救法第四十八條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員丁學忠等16人擬具「災害防救法第二\n十二條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1142901_00001"}}}