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{\"word\": \"障\", \"start\": 575.146, \"end\": 575.306, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 575.306, \"end\": 575.726, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"兼\", \"start\": 575.726, \"end\": 575.746, \"score\": 0.097}, {\"word\": \"顧\"}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 575.746, \"end\": 575.866, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 575.866, \"end\": 575.927, \"score\": 0.595}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 575.927, \"end\": 575.947, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 575.947, \"end\": 575.967, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,529 --> 00:00:04,590\n主席好接下來有請部長有請部長謝謝謝謝部長部長我在這裡我想首先請您說明一下您知道本席其實也有提軍事審判法的修法\n\n2\n00:00:23,716 --> 00:00:47,516\n我有看到您提出來是有關軍事審判法的三四條的修正好請問一下就是就您的這個法律的解釋我本席所修的軍事審判法第三四條的修法這個是像現在的國防部所講的是暫時跟平時都要恢復軍事審判嗎我的修法裡面有這麼說嗎\n\n3\n00:00:51,460 --> 00:01:11,870\n您的修法34條主要是就犯罪事實是一部那現行是要因依刑事審判法追訴審判時全部依刑事審判法追訴審判那您要修改成犯罪事實是一部因依這個就是所謂的軍事審判法來追訴審判的時候全部依軍事審判法來追訴審判這樣\n\n4\n00:01:12,870 --> 00:01:27,984\n所以呢,我現在修了這個法的目的,我本來是要幫你們國防部解決問題的結果現在好像外界都認為說,我修了這個法是代表說在連平常的時期都要適用軍事審判,是這樣的意思嗎?呃,我想我沒有這樣說了\n\n5\n00:01:32,925 --> 00:01:46,195\n所以部長您的看法呢是不是我現在修的版本只是在強調暫時的時候如果當軍人同時違反陸海空軍刑法跟普通刑法的時候才交由軍事審判審理而不是跟你們現在所講的軍事審判法的修法的方向是不一樣的\n\n6\n00:01:52,945 --> 00:02:07,445\n對那因為這一條有關又是屬於所謂的普通法跟特別法兩最競合的部分那一特別法優先的原則的話就優先適用軍審判進行追溯審判我想這部分的修法在我們日後的修法方向也是會如此的\n\n7\n00:02:07,765 --> 00:02:11,626\n好那麼所以我再次強調我的修法我修軍事審判法我並不是認為說是要在平時時期就要恢復軍事審判制度要不恢復軍事審判制度未來軍法官的參審制如何這個我覺得還需要更仔細的討論那接下來我想要請教這個部長一個問題就是說\n\n8\n00:02:28,251 --> 00:02:36,138\n你們這次所提出來的未來在軍人職務上犯罪的時候不管是在戰時和平時都要交由軍事審判審理請問現在實務上是出現什麼問題嗎交由普通法院審理有治安難行的地方嗎\n\n9\n00:02:43,847 --> 00:02:57,520\n我想我在這裡最主要的一個考量就是說如果平時不重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度的話暫時幾乎是不可能有那個能量來從事軍事審判的因為\n\n10\n00:02:58,621 --> 00:03:16,065\n他就荒廢了嘛因為他已經荒廢了這麼久了那所以如果現在我講了所以我一直在講說我不是要恢復過去那個被人詬病的軍事審判而是我要重新打造一個合乎正當程序公平審判原則的一個新的軍事審判那暫時的時候才能夠才能夠真正的能夠有這個能量來進行這個所謂的因為現在還是在平時暫時二元化的狀態我想是這樣因為民進黨政府執政已經到現在九年了\n\n11\n00:03:28,707 --> 00:03:53,050\n這九年裡面民進黨政府從來沒有考慮過軍事審判沒有考慮過軍法官的他們的生涯他們如何要培養在民進黨政府執政這些年來我們軍法官已經停招12年了在上個會期本席不斷地強調希望國防部能夠先恢復軍法官考試請問你們今年會恢復軍法官考試嗎\n\n12\n00:03:54,301 --> 00:04:11,706\n這一點我們還要跟這個考試院那邊做一個所以你們連軍法官都沒有想到說要現在恢復考試就要來修改教育制度跟委員報告我覺得我比較傾向也是一個多元選材的一個觀念也就是說\n\n13\n00:04:12,586 --> 00:04:29,083\n我過去以來長期這個從事這方面的部分喔單單考試這一個部分喔不足以來確定這一個軍法官的素質所以軍法官的養成跟軍法官的多元選才這些相關的配套是我們現在在思考的一個重點也就是說\n\n14\n00:04:30,805 --> 00:04:47,653\n按照您的说法您就是不相信现在军方这个国防大学他们可能有能力去培养军法人才需要从外界再去寻求其他的管道来这个甄选军法官我希望有一个我希望有一个司法院\n\n15\n00:04:48,513 --> 00:05:06,520\n基本上也有多元選才多元領選司法官的途徑可是參加真實的人非常非常的少現在人越來越多了請你們去跟司法院去要資料我現在要講一下現在每年有多少件的軍人案件司法院之前曾經發布了一個新聞稿說每年有多少個軍人案件\n\n16\n00:05:15,154 --> 00:05:34,299\n我們現在沒有辦法百分之百確定剛剛已經回答林柱英委員的問題就是說他現在有關軍人涉犯這個犯罪的時候有可能是一般刑法的犯罪有可能是這個陸海公行法第三篇的也有可能是陸海公行法第二篇的所以我們要去確認一下我想我在這邊再講個事實從109年到113年期間其實這個\n\n17\n00:05:43,614 --> 00:06:02,528\n違反國防違反國安相關特定案件的案子頂多也只有103件那麼就司法院他們這三年以來他們所收到的有跟軍人有關的案子不翻剛剛部長您說的是什麼樣子的一個犯罪行為總之是交由普通法院來審理的\n\n18\n00:06:03,709 --> 00:06:27,447\n也不過是佔他們的0.12%也就是一萬件的新收案件當中與軍人有關的只有12件這是地方法院受理的高等法院受理的呢一萬件的案件當中只有27件是與軍人有關的其實這個案件數基本上是佔整個的法院的受理案件數是非常非常低的\n\n19\n00:06:29,181 --> 00:06:36,284\n我認為說你們今天是不相信我們的法院法官有足夠的能力可以去去審理與軍人有關的這個案件嗎\n\n20\n00:06:42,408 --> 00:07:00,680\n我剛剛跟委員報告了就我個人觀點我還是比較重視在平戰轉換這一個部分平時要建立重新打造一個新的軍事咱們的制度暫時才能夠有那個能量來我們看一下您過去怎麼說您過去說這個您不相信軍人的軍事審判有獨立性的可能要恢復軍事審判您現在是說要全新打造一個全新的軍事審判制度\n\n21\n00:07:09,690 --> 00:07:17,835\n可是過去從來沒有規劃現在突然之間要冒出來說要打造全新的軍事審判制度而且在非常短期之內就要做完有可能嗎而且這個一個很嚴重的問題就是你現在軍事法院的審判跟普通法院的審判未來的職權要怎麼樣去釐清以剛剛講的那個什麼中間人的犯罪案件來看\n\n22\n00:07:35,425 --> 00:08:03,179\n他的正犯是在軍事審判由郊遊軍事法院來審理那他這個中間人他可能教書犯或幫助犯用郊遊一般的法院來審理這不會出現一個這個未來在這個訴訟審理上面的矛盾嗎所以有關這個部分就是涉及到司審跟上訴審的救濟問題這個部分我們會跟司法院跟法務部來做一個協商所以我在想你們其實目的還是想一網打盡\n\n23\n00:08:04,625 --> 00:08:30,614\n不管勝犯是不是職業軍人然後只要是中間有可能跟這個軍人有關的未來所有的案件都會併到軍事法院來一起審判從你們現在的規劃來講其實就可以看出來這樣的矛盾委員您應該很清楚這個憲法就保障非軍事非現役軍人不受軍事審判這我非常的清楚所以這也是我們現在在考慮你們現在所提出來的這樣的問題\n\n24\n00:08:35,350 --> 00:08:37,571\n請不要忘記您過去曾經說過什麼您不相信軍事審判制度的你認為說軍事審判它還是有這個軍法官還是有服從這個軍階服從上級還是有軍階服從上級掌管命令的義務所以我希望您能夠這個警禁之前說的話不要說現在換了一個總統就換了一套說法然後軍事審判制度基本上我沒有反對但是必須要\n\n25\n00:09:04,838 --> 00:09:06,080\n深刻的必須要這個精心的來這個研擬規劃我們不希望看到軍法官來背黑鍋\n\n26\n00:09:15,748 --> 00:09:35,967\n因為法院不敢判的現在交由軍法官來判法院判輕的未來要求軍法官要判重我不願意看到我們的軍事審判制度未來變成民進黨這個遂行要去整肅一己的手段好謝謝我想我會本以初衷我們就是保障人權兼顧真實的發現還有這一個\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n529\t4590\t主席好 接下來有請部長有請部長 謝謝謝謝部長部長我在這裡我想首先請您說明一下您知道本席其實也有提軍事審判法的修法\n23716\t47516\t我有看到您提出來是有關軍事審判法的三四條的修正好 請問一下就是就您的這個法律的解釋我本席所修的軍事審判法第三四條的修法這個是像現在的國防部所講的是暫時跟平時都要恢復軍事審判嗎我的修法裡面有這麼說嗎\n51460\t71870\t您的修法34條主要是就犯罪事實是一部那現行是要因依刑事審判法追訴審判時全部依刑事審判法追訴審判那您要修改成犯罪事實是一部因依這個就是所謂的軍事審判法來追訴審判的時候全部依軍事審判法來追訴審判這樣\n72870\t87984\t所以呢,我現在修了這個法的目的,我本來是要幫你們國防部解決問題的結果現在好像外界都認為說,我修了這個法是代表說在連平常的時期都要適用軍事審判,是這樣的意思嗎?呃,我想我沒有這樣說了\n92925\t106195\t所以部長您的看法呢是不是我現在修的版本只是在強調暫時的時候如果當軍人同時違反陸海空軍刑法跟普通刑法的時候才交由軍事審判審理而不是跟你們現在所講的軍事審判法的修法的方向是不一樣的\n112945\t127445\t對 那因為這一條有關又是屬於所謂的普通法跟特別法兩最競合的部分那一 特別法優先的原則的話就優先適用軍審判進行追溯審判我想這部分的修法在我們日後的修法方向也是會如此的\n127765\t131626\t好 那麼所以我再次強調我的修法 我修軍事審判法我並不是認為說是要在平時時期就要恢復軍事審判制度要不恢復軍事審判制度未來軍法官的參審制如何這個我覺得還需要更仔細的討論那接下來我想要請教這個部長一個問題就是說\n148251\t156138\t你們這次所提出來的未來在軍人職務上犯罪的時候不管是在戰時和平時都要交由軍事審判審理請問現在實務上是出現什麼問題嗎交由普通法院審理有治安難行的地方嗎\n163847\t177520\t我想我在這裡最主要的一個考量就是說如果平時不重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度的話暫時幾乎是不可能有那個能量來從事軍事審判的因為\n178621\t196065\t他就荒廢了嘛因為他已經荒廢了這麼久了那所以如果現在我講了所以我一直在講說我不是要恢復過去那個被人詬病的軍事審判而是我要重新打造一個合乎正當程序公平審判原則的一個新的軍事審判那暫時的時候才能夠才能夠真正的能夠有這個能量來進行這個所謂的因為現在還是在平時暫時二元化的狀態我想是這樣因為民進黨政府執政已經到現在九年了\n208707\t233050\t這九年裡面 民進黨政府從來沒有考慮過軍事審判沒有考慮過軍法官的他們的生涯他們如何要培養在民進黨政府執政這些年來 我們軍法官已經停招12年了在上個會期 本席不斷地強調希望國防部能夠先恢復軍法官考試請問你們今年會恢復軍法官考試嗎\n234301\t251706\t這一點我們還要跟這個考試院那邊做一個所以你們連軍法官都沒有想到說要現在恢復考試就要來修改教育制度跟委員報告我覺得我比較傾向也是一個多元選材的一個觀念也就是說\n252586\t269083\t我過去以來長期這個從事這方面的部分喔單單考試這一個部分喔不足以來確定這一個軍法官的素質所以軍法官的養成跟軍法官的多元選才這些相關的配套是我們現在在思考的一個重點也就是說\n270805\t287653\t按照您的说法您就是不相信现在军方这个国防大学他们可能有能力去培养军法人才需要从外界再去寻求其他的管道来这个甄选军法官我希望有一个我希望有一个司法院\n288513\t306520\t基本上也有多元選才 多元領選司法官的途徑可是參加真實的人非常非常的少現在人越來越多了請你們去跟司法院去要資料我現在要講一下 現在每年有多少件的軍人案件司法院之前曾經發布了一個新聞稿說每年有多少個軍人案件\n315154\t334299\t我們現在沒有辦法百分之百確定剛剛已經回答林柱英委員的問題就是說他現在有關軍人涉犯這個犯罪的時候有可能是一般刑法的犯罪有可能是這個陸海公行法第三篇的也有可能是陸海公行法第二篇的所以我們要去確認一下我想我在這邊再講個事實從109年到113年期間其實這個\n343614\t362528\t違反國防違反國安相關特定案件的案子頂多也只有103件那麼就司法院他們這三年以來他們所收到的有跟軍人有關的案子不翻剛剛部長您說的是什麼樣子的一個犯罪行為總之是交由普通法院來審理的\n363709\t387447\t也不過是佔他們的0.12%也就是一萬件的新收案件當中與軍人有關的只有12件這是地方法院受理的高等法院受理的呢一萬件的案件當中只有27件是與軍人有關的其實這個案件數基本上是佔整個的法院的受理案件數是非常非常低的\n389181\t396284\t我認為說你們今天是不相信我們的法院法官有足夠的能力可以去去審理與軍人有關的這個案件嗎\n402408\t420680\t我剛剛跟委員報告了就我個人觀點我還是比較重視在平戰轉換這一個部分平時要建立重新打造一個新的軍事咱們的制度暫時才能夠有那個能量來我們看一下您過去怎麼說您過去說這個您不相信軍人的軍事審判有獨立性的可能要恢復軍事審判您現在是說要全新打造一個全新的軍事審判制度\n429690\t437835\t可是過去從來沒有規劃 現在突然之間要冒出來說要打造全新的軍事審判制度而且在非常短期之內就要做完 有可能嗎而且這個一個很嚴重的問題就是你現在軍事法院的審判跟普通法院的審判未來的職權要怎麼樣去釐清 以剛剛講的那個什麼中間人的犯罪案件來看\n455425\t483179\t他的正犯是在軍事審判由郊遊軍事法院來審理那他這個中間人他可能教書犯或幫助犯用郊遊一般的法院來審理這不會出現一個這個未來在這個訴訟審理上面的矛盾嗎所以有關這個部分就是涉及到司審跟上訴審的救濟問題這個部分我們會跟司法院跟法務部來做一個協商所以我在想你們其實目的還是想一網打盡\n484625\t510614\t不管勝犯是不是職業軍人然後只要是中間有可能跟這個軍人有關的未來所有的案件都會併到軍事法院來一起審判從你們現在的規劃來講其實就可以看出來這樣的矛盾委員您應該很清楚這個憲法就保障非軍事非現役軍人不受軍事審判這我非常的清楚所以這也是我們現在在考慮你們現在所提出來的這樣的問題\n515350\t517571\t請不要忘記您過去曾經說過什麼您不相信軍事審判制度的你認為說軍事審判它還是有這個軍法官還是有服從這個軍階服從上級還是有軍階服從上級掌管命令的義務所以我希望您能夠這個警禁之前說的話不要說現在換了一個總統就換了一套說法然後軍事審判制度基本上我沒有反對但是必須要\n544838\t546080\t深刻的必須要這個精心的來這個研擬規劃我們不希望看到軍法官來背黑鍋\n555748\t575967\t因為法院不敢判的現在交由軍法官來判法院判輕的未來要求軍法官要判重我不願意看到我們的軍事審判制度未來變成民進黨這個遂行要去整肅一己的手段好 謝謝我想我會本以初衷我們就是保障人權兼顧真實的發現還有這一個\n","txt":"主席好 接下來有請部長有請部長 謝謝謝謝部長部長我在這裡我想首先請您說明一下您知道本席其實也有提軍事審判法的修法\n我有看到您提出來是有關軍事審判法的三四條的修正好 請問一下就是就您的這個法律的解釋我本席所修的軍事審判法第三四條的修法這個是像現在的國防部所講的是暫時跟平時都要恢復軍事審判嗎我的修法裡面有這麼說嗎\n您的修法34條主要是就犯罪事實是一部那現行是要因依刑事審判法追訴審判時全部依刑事審判法追訴審判那您要修改成犯罪事實是一部因依這個就是所謂的軍事審判法來追訴審判的時候全部依軍事審判法來追訴審判這樣\n所以呢,我現在修了這個法的目的,我本來是要幫你們國防部解決問題的結果現在好像外界都認為說,我修了這個法是代表說在連平常的時期都要適用軍事審判,是這樣的意思嗎?呃,我想我沒有這樣說了\n所以部長您的看法呢是不是我現在修的版本只是在強調暫時的時候如果當軍人同時違反陸海空軍刑法跟普通刑法的時候才交由軍事審判審理而不是跟你們現在所講的軍事審判法的修法的方向是不一樣的\n對 那因為這一條有關又是屬於所謂的普通法跟特別法兩最競合的部分那一 特別法優先的原則的話就優先適用軍審判進行追溯審判我想這部分的修法在我們日後的修法方向也是會如此的\n好 那麼所以我再次強調我的修法 我修軍事審判法我並不是認為說是要在平時時期就要恢復軍事審判制度要不恢復軍事審判制度未來軍法官的參審制如何這個我覺得還需要更仔細的討論那接下來我想要請教這個部長一個問題就是說\n你們這次所提出來的未來在軍人職務上犯罪的時候不管是在戰時和平時都要交由軍事審判審理請問現在實務上是出現什麼問題嗎交由普通法院審理有治安難行的地方嗎\n我想我在這裡最主要的一個考量就是說如果平時不重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度的話暫時幾乎是不可能有那個能量來從事軍事審判的因為\n他就荒廢了嘛因為他已經荒廢了這麼久了那所以如果現在我講了所以我一直在講說我不是要恢復過去那個被人詬病的軍事審判而是我要重新打造一個合乎正當程序公平審判原則的一個新的軍事審判那暫時的時候才能夠才能夠真正的能夠有這個能量來進行這個所謂的因為現在還是在平時暫時二元化的狀態我想是這樣因為民進黨政府執政已經到現在九年了\n這九年裡面 民進黨政府從來沒有考慮過軍事審判沒有考慮過軍法官的他們的生涯他們如何要培養在民進黨政府執政這些年來 我們軍法官已經停招12年了在上個會期 本席不斷地強調希望國防部能夠先恢復軍法官考試請問你們今年會恢復軍法官考試嗎\n這一點我們還要跟這個考試院那邊做一個所以你們連軍法官都沒有想到說要現在恢復考試就要來修改教育制度跟委員報告我覺得我比較傾向也是一個多元選材的一個觀念也就是說\n我過去以來長期這個從事這方面的部分喔單單考試這一個部分喔不足以來確定這一個軍法官的素質所以軍法官的養成跟軍法官的多元選才這些相關的配套是我們現在在思考的一個重點也就是說\n按照您的说法您就是不相信现在军方这个国防大学他们可能有能力去培养军法人才需要从外界再去寻求其他的管道来这个甄选军法官我希望有一个我希望有一个司法院\n基本上也有多元選才 多元領選司法官的途徑可是參加真實的人非常非常的少現在人越來越多了請你們去跟司法院去要資料我現在要講一下 現在每年有多少件的軍人案件司法院之前曾經發布了一個新聞稿說每年有多少個軍人案件\n我們現在沒有辦法百分之百確定剛剛已經回答林柱英委員的問題就是說他現在有關軍人涉犯這個犯罪的時候有可能是一般刑法的犯罪有可能是這個陸海公行法第三篇的也有可能是陸海公行法第二篇的所以我們要去確認一下我想我在這邊再講個事實從109年到113年期間其實這個\n違反國防違反國安相關特定案件的案子頂多也只有103件那麼就司法院他們這三年以來他們所收到的有跟軍人有關的案子不翻剛剛部長您說的是什麼樣子的一個犯罪行為總之是交由普通法院來審理的\n也不過是佔他們的0.12%也就是一萬件的新收案件當中與軍人有關的只有12件這是地方法院受理的高等法院受理的呢一萬件的案件當中只有27件是與軍人有關的其實這個案件數基本上是佔整個的法院的受理案件數是非常非常低的\n我認為說你們今天是不相信我們的法院法官有足夠的能力可以去去審理與軍人有關的這個案件嗎\n我剛剛跟委員報告了就我個人觀點我還是比較重視在平戰轉換這一個部分平時要建立重新打造一個新的軍事咱們的制度暫時才能夠有那個能量來我們看一下您過去怎麼說您過去說這個您不相信軍人的軍事審判有獨立性的可能要恢復軍事審判您現在是說要全新打造一個全新的軍事審判制度\n可是過去從來沒有規劃 現在突然之間要冒出來說要打造全新的軍事審判制度而且在非常短期之內就要做完 有可能嗎而且這個一個很嚴重的問題就是你現在軍事法院的審判跟普通法院的審判未來的職權要怎麼樣去釐清 以剛剛講的那個什麼中間人的犯罪案件來看\n他的正犯是在軍事審判由郊遊軍事法院來審理那他這個中間人他可能教書犯或幫助犯用郊遊一般的法院來審理這不會出現一個這個未來在這個訴訟審理上面的矛盾嗎所以有關這個部分就是涉及到司審跟上訴審的救濟問題這個部分我們會跟司法院跟法務部來做一個協商所以我在想你們其實目的還是想一網打盡\n不管勝犯是不是職業軍人然後只要是中間有可能跟這個軍人有關的未來所有的案件都會併到軍事法院來一起審判從你們現在的規劃來講其實就可以看出來這樣的矛盾委員您應該很清楚這個憲法就保障非軍事非現役軍人不受軍事審判這我非常的清楚所以這也是我們現在在考慮你們現在所提出來的這樣的問題\n請不要忘記您過去曾經說過什麼您不相信軍事審判制度的你認為說軍事審判它還是有這個軍法官還是有服從這個軍階服從上級還是有軍階服從上級掌管命令的義務所以我希望您能夠這個警禁之前說的話不要說現在換了一個總統就換了一套說法然後軍事審判制度基本上我沒有反對但是必須要\n深刻的必須要這個精心的來這個研擬規劃我們不希望看到軍法官來背黑鍋\n因為法院不敢判的現在交由軍法官來判法院判輕的未來要求軍法官要判重我不願意看到我們的軍事審判制度未來變成民進黨這個遂行要去整肅一己的手段好 謝謝我想我會本以初衷我們就是保障人權兼顧真實的發現還有這一個\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.529 --> 00:04.590\n主席好接下來有請部長有請部長謝謝謝謝部長部長我在這裡我想首先請您說明一下您知道本席其實也有提軍事審判法的修法\n\n00:23.716 --> 00:47.516\n我有看到您提出來是有關軍事審判法的三四條的修正好請問一下就是就您的這個法律的解釋我本席所修的軍事審判法第三四條的修法這個是像現在的國防部所講的是暫時跟平時都要恢復軍事審判嗎我的修法裡面有這麼說嗎\n\n00:51.460 --> 01:11.870\n您的修法34條主要是就犯罪事實是一部那現行是要因依刑事審判法追訴審判時全部依刑事審判法追訴審判那您要修改成犯罪事實是一部因依這個就是所謂的軍事審判法來追訴審判的時候全部依軍事審判法來追訴審判這樣\n\n01:12.870 --> 01:27.984\n所以呢,我現在修了這個法的目的,我本來是要幫你們國防部解決問題的結果現在好像外界都認為說,我修了這個法是代表說在連平常的時期都要適用軍事審判,是這樣的意思嗎?呃,我想我沒有這樣說了\n\n01:32.925 --> 01:46.195\n所以部長您的看法呢是不是我現在修的版本只是在強調暫時的時候如果當軍人同時違反陸海空軍刑法跟普通刑法的時候才交由軍事審判審理而不是跟你們現在所講的軍事審判法的修法的方向是不一樣的\n\n01:52.945 --> 02:07.445\n對那因為這一條有關又是屬於所謂的普通法跟特別法兩最競合的部分那一特別法優先的原則的話就優先適用軍審判進行追溯審判我想這部分的修法在我們日後的修法方向也是會如此的\n\n02:07.765 --> 02:11.626\n好那麼所以我再次強調我的修法我修軍事審判法我並不是認為說是要在平時時期就要恢復軍事審判制度要不恢復軍事審判制度未來軍法官的參審制如何這個我覺得還需要更仔細的討論那接下來我想要請教這個部長一個問題就是說\n\n02:28.251 --> 02:36.138\n你們這次所提出來的未來在軍人職務上犯罪的時候不管是在戰時和平時都要交由軍事審判審理請問現在實務上是出現什麼問題嗎交由普通法院審理有治安難行的地方嗎\n\n02:43.847 --> 02:57.520\n我想我在這裡最主要的一個考量就是說如果平時不重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度的話暫時幾乎是不可能有那個能量來從事軍事審判的因為\n\n02:58.621 --> 03:16.065\n他就荒廢了嘛因為他已經荒廢了這麼久了那所以如果現在我講了所以我一直在講說我不是要恢復過去那個被人詬病的軍事審判而是我要重新打造一個合乎正當程序公平審判原則的一個新的軍事審判那暫時的時候才能夠才能夠真正的能夠有這個能量來進行這個所謂的因為現在還是在平時暫時二元化的狀態我想是這樣因為民進黨政府執政已經到現在九年了\n\n03:28.707 --> 03:53.050\n這九年裡面民進黨政府從來沒有考慮過軍事審判沒有考慮過軍法官的他們的生涯他們如何要培養在民進黨政府執政這些年來我們軍法官已經停招12年了在上個會期本席不斷地強調希望國防部能夠先恢復軍法官考試請問你們今年會恢復軍法官考試嗎\n\n03:54.301 --> 04:11.706\n這一點我們還要跟這個考試院那邊做一個所以你們連軍法官都沒有想到說要現在恢復考試就要來修改教育制度跟委員報告我覺得我比較傾向也是一個多元選材的一個觀念也就是說\n\n04:12.586 --> 04:29.083\n我過去以來長期這個從事這方面的部分喔單單考試這一個部分喔不足以來確定這一個軍法官的素質所以軍法官的養成跟軍法官的多元選才這些相關的配套是我們現在在思考的一個重點也就是說\n\n04:30.805 --> 04:47.653\n按照您的说法您就是不相信现在军方这个国防大学他们可能有能力去培养军法人才需要从外界再去寻求其他的管道来这个甄选军法官我希望有一个我希望有一个司法院\n\n04:48.513 --> 05:06.520\n基本上也有多元選才多元領選司法官的途徑可是參加真實的人非常非常的少現在人越來越多了請你們去跟司法院去要資料我現在要講一下現在每年有多少件的軍人案件司法院之前曾經發布了一個新聞稿說每年有多少個軍人案件\n\n05:15.154 --> 05:34.299\n我們現在沒有辦法百分之百確定剛剛已經回答林柱英委員的問題就是說他現在有關軍人涉犯這個犯罪的時候有可能是一般刑法的犯罪有可能是這個陸海公行法第三篇的也有可能是陸海公行法第二篇的所以我們要去確認一下我想我在這邊再講個事實從109年到113年期間其實這個\n\n05:43.614 --> 06:02.528\n違反國防違反國安相關特定案件的案子頂多也只有103件那麼就司法院他們這三年以來他們所收到的有跟軍人有關的案子不翻剛剛部長您說的是什麼樣子的一個犯罪行為總之是交由普通法院來審理的\n\n06:03.709 --> 06:27.447\n也不過是佔他們的0.12%也就是一萬件的新收案件當中與軍人有關的只有12件這是地方法院受理的高等法院受理的呢一萬件的案件當中只有27件是與軍人有關的其實這個案件數基本上是佔整個的法院的受理案件數是非常非常低的\n\n06:29.181 --> 06:36.284\n我認為說你們今天是不相信我們的法院法官有足夠的能力可以去去審理與軍人有關的這個案件嗎\n\n06:42.408 --> 07:00.680\n我剛剛跟委員報告了就我個人觀點我還是比較重視在平戰轉換這一個部分平時要建立重新打造一個新的軍事咱們的制度暫時才能夠有那個能量來我們看一下您過去怎麼說您過去說這個您不相信軍人的軍事審判有獨立性的可能要恢復軍事審判您現在是說要全新打造一個全新的軍事審判制度\n\n07:09.690 --> 07:17.835\n可是過去從來沒有規劃現在突然之間要冒出來說要打造全新的軍事審判制度而且在非常短期之內就要做完有可能嗎而且這個一個很嚴重的問題就是你現在軍事法院的審判跟普通法院的審判未來的職權要怎麼樣去釐清以剛剛講的那個什麼中間人的犯罪案件來看\n\n07:35.425 --> 08:03.179\n他的正犯是在軍事審判由郊遊軍事法院來審理那他這個中間人他可能教書犯或幫助犯用郊遊一般的法院來審理這不會出現一個這個未來在這個訴訟審理上面的矛盾嗎所以有關這個部分就是涉及到司審跟上訴審的救濟問題這個部分我們會跟司法院跟法務部來做一個協商所以我在想你們其實目的還是想一網打盡\n\n08:04.625 --> 08:30.614\n不管勝犯是不是職業軍人然後只要是中間有可能跟這個軍人有關的未來所有的案件都會併到軍事法院來一起審判從你們現在的規劃來講其實就可以看出來這樣的矛盾委員您應該很清楚這個憲法就保障非軍事非現役軍人不受軍事審判這我非常的清楚所以這也是我們現在在考慮你們現在所提出來的這樣的問題\n\n08:35.350 --> 08:37.571\n請不要忘記您過去曾經說過什麼您不相信軍事審判制度的你認為說軍事審判它還是有這個軍法官還是有服從這個軍階服從上級還是有軍階服從上級掌管命令的義務所以我希望您能夠這個警禁之前說的話不要說現在換了一個總統就換了一套說法然後軍事審判制度基本上我沒有反對但是必須要\n\n09:04.838 --> 09:06.080\n深刻的必須要這個精心的來這個研擬規劃我們不希望看到軍法官來背黑鍋\n\n09:15.748 --> 09:35.967\n因為法院不敢判的現在交由軍法官來判法院判輕的未來要求軍法官要判重我不願意看到我們的軍事審判制度未來變成民進黨這個遂行要去整肅一己的手段好謝謝我想我會本以初衷我們就是保障人權兼顧真實的發現還有這一個\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.529,"end":4.59,"text":"主席好 接下來有請部長有請部長 謝謝謝謝部長部長我在這裡我想首先請您說明一下您知道本席其實也有提軍事審判法的修法"},{"start":23.716,"end":47.516,"text":"我有看到您提出來是有關軍事審判法的三四條的修正好 請問一下就是就您的這個法律的解釋我本席所修的軍事審判法第三四條的修法這個是像現在的國防部所講的是暫時跟平時都要恢復軍事審判嗎我的修法裡面有這麼說嗎"},{"start":51.46,"end":71.87,"text":"您的修法34條主要是就犯罪事實是一部那現行是要因依刑事審判法追訴審判時全部依刑事審判法追訴審判那您要修改成犯罪事實是一部因依這個就是所謂的軍事審判法來追訴審判的時候全部依軍事審判法來追訴審判這樣"},{"start":72.87,"end":87.984,"text":"所以呢,我現在修了這個法的目的,我本來是要幫你們國防部解決問題的結果現在好像外界都認為說,我修了這個法是代表說在連平常的時期都要適用軍事審判,是這樣的意思嗎?呃,我想我沒有這樣說了"},{"start":92.925,"end":106.195,"text":"所以部長您的看法呢是不是我現在修的版本只是在強調暫時的時候如果當軍人同時違反陸海空軍刑法跟普通刑法的時候才交由軍事審判審理而不是跟你們現在所講的軍事審判法的修法的方向是不一樣的"},{"start":112.945,"end":127.445,"text":"對 那因為這一條有關又是屬於所謂的普通法跟特別法兩最競合的部分那一 特別法優先的原則的話就優先適用軍審判進行追溯審判我想這部分的修法在我們日後的修法方向也是會如此的"},{"start":127.765,"end":131.626,"text":"好 那麼所以我再次強調我的修法 我修軍事審判法我並不是認為說是要在平時時期就要恢復軍事審判制度要不恢復軍事審判制度未來軍法官的參審制如何這個我覺得還需要更仔細的討論那接下來我想要請教這個部長一個問題就是說"},{"start":148.251,"end":156.138,"text":"你們這次所提出來的未來在軍人職務上犯罪的時候不管是在戰時和平時都要交由軍事審判審理請問現在實務上是出現什麼問題嗎交由普通法院審理有治安難行的地方嗎"},{"start":163.847,"end":177.52,"text":"我想我在這裡最主要的一個考量就是說如果平時不重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度的話暫時幾乎是不可能有那個能量來從事軍事審判的因為"},{"start":178.621,"end":196.065,"text":"他就荒廢了嘛因為他已經荒廢了這麼久了那所以如果現在我講了所以我一直在講說我不是要恢復過去那個被人詬病的軍事審判而是我要重新打造一個合乎正當程序公平審判原則的一個新的軍事審判那暫時的時候才能夠才能夠真正的能夠有這個能量來進行這個所謂的因為現在還是在平時暫時二元化的狀態我想是這樣因為民進黨政府執政已經到現在九年了"},{"start":208.707,"end":233.05,"text":"這九年裡面 民進黨政府從來沒有考慮過軍事審判沒有考慮過軍法官的他們的生涯他們如何要培養在民進黨政府執政這些年來 我們軍法官已經停招12年了在上個會期 本席不斷地強調希望國防部能夠先恢復軍法官考試請問你們今年會恢復軍法官考試嗎"},{"start":234.301,"end":251.706,"text":"這一點我們還要跟這個考試院那邊做一個所以你們連軍法官都沒有想到說要現在恢復考試就要來修改教育制度跟委員報告我覺得我比較傾向也是一個多元選材的一個觀念也就是說"},{"start":252.586,"end":269.083,"text":"我過去以來長期這個從事這方面的部分喔單單考試這一個部分喔不足以來確定這一個軍法官的素質所以軍法官的養成跟軍法官的多元選才這些相關的配套是我們現在在思考的一個重點也就是說"},{"start":270.805,"end":287.653,"text":"按照您的说法您就是不相信现在军方这个国防大学他们可能有能力去培养军法人才需要从外界再去寻求其他的管道来这个甄选军法官我希望有一个我希望有一个司法院"},{"start":288.513,"end":306.52,"text":"基本上也有多元選才 多元領選司法官的途徑可是參加真實的人非常非常的少現在人越來越多了請你們去跟司法院去要資料我現在要講一下 現在每年有多少件的軍人案件司法院之前曾經發布了一個新聞稿說每年有多少個軍人案件"},{"start":315.154,"end":334.299,"text":"我們現在沒有辦法百分之百確定剛剛已經回答林柱英委員的問題就是說他現在有關軍人涉犯這個犯罪的時候有可能是一般刑法的犯罪有可能是這個陸海公行法第三篇的也有可能是陸海公行法第二篇的所以我們要去確認一下我想我在這邊再講個事實從109年到113年期間其實這個"},{"start":343.614,"end":362.528,"text":"違反國防違反國安相關特定案件的案子頂多也只有103件那麼就司法院他們這三年以來他們所收到的有跟軍人有關的案子不翻剛剛部長您說的是什麼樣子的一個犯罪行為總之是交由普通法院來審理的"},{"start":363.709,"end":387.447,"text":"也不過是佔他們的0.12%也就是一萬件的新收案件當中與軍人有關的只有12件這是地方法院受理的高等法院受理的呢一萬件的案件當中只有27件是與軍人有關的其實這個案件數基本上是佔整個的法院的受理案件數是非常非常低的"},{"start":389.181,"end":396.284,"text":"我認為說你們今天是不相信我們的法院法官有足夠的能力可以去去審理與軍人有關的這個案件嗎"},{"start":402.408,"end":420.68,"text":"我剛剛跟委員報告了就我個人觀點我還是比較重視在平戰轉換這一個部分平時要建立重新打造一個新的軍事咱們的制度暫時才能夠有那個能量來我們看一下您過去怎麼說您過去說這個您不相信軍人的軍事審判有獨立性的可能要恢復軍事審判您現在是說要全新打造一個全新的軍事審判制度"},{"start":429.69,"end":437.835,"text":"可是過去從來沒有規劃 現在突然之間要冒出來說要打造全新的軍事審判制度而且在非常短期之內就要做完 有可能嗎而且這個一個很嚴重的問題就是你現在軍事法院的審判跟普通法院的審判未來的職權要怎麼樣去釐清 以剛剛講的那個什麼中間人的犯罪案件來看"},{"start":455.425,"end":483.179,"text":"他的正犯是在軍事審判由郊遊軍事法院來審理那他這個中間人他可能教書犯或幫助犯用郊遊一般的法院來審理這不會出現一個這個未來在這個訴訟審理上面的矛盾嗎所以有關這個部分就是涉及到司審跟上訴審的救濟問題這個部分我們會跟司法院跟法務部來做一個協商所以我在想你們其實目的還是想一網打盡"},{"start":484.625,"end":510.614,"text":"不管勝犯是不是職業軍人然後只要是中間有可能跟這個軍人有關的未來所有的案件都會併到軍事法院來一起審判從你們現在的規劃來講其實就可以看出來這樣的矛盾委員您應該很清楚這個憲法就保障非軍事非現役軍人不受軍事審判這我非常的清楚所以這也是我們現在在考慮你們現在所提出來的這樣的問題"},{"start":515.35,"end":517.571,"text":"請不要忘記您過去曾經說過什麼您不相信軍事審判制度的你認為說軍事審判它還是有這個軍法官還是有服從這個軍階服從上級還是有軍階服從上級掌管命令的義務所以我希望您能夠這個警禁之前說的話不要說現在換了一個總統就換了一套說法然後軍事審判制度基本上我沒有反對但是必須要"},{"start":544.838,"end":546.08,"text":"深刻的必須要這個精心的來這個研擬規劃我們不希望看到軍法官來背黑鍋"},{"start":555.748,"end":575.967,"text":"因為法院不敢判的現在交由軍法官來判法院判輕的未來要求軍法官要判重我不願意看到我們的軍事審判制度未來變成民進黨這個遂行要去整肅一己的手段好 謝謝我想我會本以初衷我們就是保障人權兼顧真實的發現還有這一個"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":438,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（11時4分）主席好。接下來有請部長。"],["主席：有請部長，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：翁委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：謝謝部長。部長，首先請您說明一下，您知道本席其實也有提軍事審判法的修法。"],["顧部長立雄：我有看到您提出來是有關軍事審判法第三十四條的修正。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，請問一下，就您法律的解釋，本席所修的軍事審判法第三十四條的修法，是像現在國防部所講的是戰時跟平時都要恢復軍事審判嗎？我的修法裡面有這麼說嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：您的修法第三十四條主要是就犯罪事實是一部，現行是要應依刑事審判法追訴審判時，全部依刑事訴訟法審判，你要修改成犯罪事實是一部，應依所謂的軍事審判法來追訴審判的時候，全部依軍事審判法來追訴審判。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以呢？我現在修了這個法的目的，我本來是要幫你們國防部解決問題的，結果現在好像外界都認為我修了這個法，是代表連平常的時期都要適用軍事審判，是這樣的意思嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我沒有這樣說。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，所以部長的看法呢？是不是我現在修的版本只是在強調戰時的時候，如果當軍人同時違反陸海空軍刑法跟普通刑法的時候，才交由軍事審判審理。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：而不是跟你們現在所講的軍事審判法的修法方向是不一樣的。"],["顧部長立雄：對，因為這一條是屬於普通法跟特別法兩罪競合的部分，依特別法優先的原則，就優先適用軍事審判法進行追訴審判，我想這部分的修法在我們日後的修法方向也是會如此的。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我再次強調，我的修法、我修軍事審判法，我並不是認為在平時時期就要恢復軍事審判制度，要不要恢復軍事審判制度、未來軍法官的參審制如何，這個我覺得還需要更仔細的討論。接下來我想要請教部長一個問題，你們這次所提出來，未來軍人在職務上犯罪的時候，不管是在戰時跟平時都要交由軍事審判審理，請問現在實務上是出現什麼問題嗎？交由普通法院審理有窒礙難行的地方嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我在這裡最主要的一個考量是，如果平時不重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度的話，戰時幾乎是不可能有那個能量來從事軍事審判的，因為它就荒廢了，因為它已經荒廢了這麼久了。"],["翁委員曉玲：是。"],["顧部長立雄：所以我一直在講我不是要回復過去那個被人詬病的軍事審判，而是我要重新打造一個合乎正當程序、公平審判原則的一個新的軍事審判制度……"],["翁委員曉玲：好，部長，謝謝……"],["顧部長立雄：戰時的時候才能真的有能量來進行所謂的……因為現在還是在平時、戰時二元化的狀態。"],["翁委員曉玲：我瞭解了，謝謝部長，我想是這樣，因為民進黨政府執政到現在已經9年了，這9年裡面，民進黨政府從來沒有考慮過軍事審判、沒有考慮過軍法官他們的生涯，他們要如何培養，在民進黨政府執政這些年來，我們軍法官已經停招12年了，在上個會期，本席不斷地強調希望國防部能夠先恢復軍法官考試，請問你們今年會恢復軍法官考試嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：這一點我們還要跟考試院那邊做一個……"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你們連軍法官都沒有想到要先恢復考試，就要來修改軍事審判制度……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我覺得我比較傾向也是一個多元選才的觀念，我過去以來長期從事這方面的部分，單單靠考試這一個部分不足以確定軍法官的素質，所以軍法官的養成跟多元選才，這些相關的配套，是我們現在在思考的一個重點，也就是說……"],["翁委員曉玲：謝謝部長，按照您的說法，您就是不相信現在軍方、國防大學他們可能有能力去培養軍法人才，說要從外界再去尋求其他的管道來甄選軍法官……"],["顧部長立雄：我希望有一個……"],["翁委員曉玲：你自己也知道，其實現在司法院基本上也有多元選才、多元遴選司法官的途徑。"],["顧部長立雄：對。"],["翁委員曉玲：可是參加甄試的人非常非常的少，另外我還要再講一個……"],["顧部長立雄：沒有喔！現在人越來越多了。"],["翁委員曉玲：請你們去跟司法院要資料。我現在要講一下，現在每年有多少件的軍人案件？就是法院，司法院之前曾經發布了一個新聞稿說每年有多少個軍人案件。"],["顧部長立雄：我們現在沒有辦法百分之百確定，剛剛已經有回答林楚茵委員的問題，現在有關軍人涉案、犯罪的時候，有可能是一般刑法的犯罪，有可能是陸海空軍刑法第三編的，也有可能是陸海空軍刑法第二編的，所以我們要去確認一下。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝部長的說明。我在這邊再講個事實，從109年到113年期間，其實違反國安相關特定案件的案子，頂多也只有103件，就司法院這三年以來收到跟軍人有關的案子，不分剛剛部長說的是什麼樣子的犯罪行為，總之是交由普通法院來審理的，也不過是占他們的0.12%，也就是1萬件的新收案件當中，與軍人有關的只有12件，這是地方法院受理的；而高等法院受理的，1萬件的案件當中，只有27件是與軍人有關的。其實這個案件數基本上占整個法院的受理案件數是非常非常低的，我認為你們今天是不相信我們的法院、法官有足夠的能力可以去審理與軍人有關的案件嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我剛剛跟委員報告了，就我個人的觀點，我還是比較重視在平戰轉換這個部分，平時就要重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度，戰時才能夠有那個能量。"],["翁委員曉玲：我們看一下您過去怎麼說，你過去說您不相信軍事審判有獨立性的可能，要恢復軍事審判，你現在是說要打造一個全新的軍事審判制度。可是過去從來沒有規劃，現在突然之間冒出來說要打造全新的軍事審判制度，而且在非常短期之內就要做完，有可能嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：當然，其實在我……"],["翁委員曉玲：而且這有一個很嚴重的問題，就是現在軍事法院的審判跟普通法院的審判，未來的職權要怎麼樣去釐清？以剛剛講的中間人的犯罪案件來看，正犯是在軍事審判，交由軍事法院來審理，然後這個中間人，可能教唆犯或幫助犯又交由一般法院來審理，這不會在未來出現訴訟審理上面的矛盾嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：有關這個部分，就是涉及到事實審跟上訴審的救濟問題，這個部分我們會跟司法院及法務部來做一個協商。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以我在想，你們的目的其實還是想要一網打盡，不管正犯是不是職業軍人，只要是中間有可能跟這個軍人有關的，未來所有的案件都會併到軍事法院來一起審判。"],["顧部長立雄：委員……"],["翁委員曉玲：從你們現在的規劃來講，其實就可以看出來這樣的矛盾。"],["顧部長立雄：委員，您應該很清楚憲法就是保障非現役軍人不受軍事審判。"],["翁委員曉玲：這我非常的清楚，所以這也是我們現在在concern……"],["顧部長立雄：所以我們不會……"],["翁委員曉玲：你們現在所提出來的這樣的問題。"],["顧部長立雄：我們不會違背憲法。"],["翁委員曉玲：請不要忘記您過去曾經說過什麼，您不相信軍事審判制度的，你認為軍法官還是有服從上級、有軍階……"],["顧部長立雄：所以螢幕上已經打出來了，我們……"],["翁委員曉玲：還是有軍階、有服從長官命令的義務。"],["顧部長立雄：我們就是要讓現在全新的軍事審判制度受到人民的信任。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以我希望您能夠謹記你之前說的話，不要現在換了一個總統就換了一套說法，然後軍事審判制度，基本上我沒有反對，但是必須要精心的來研擬、規劃，我們不希望看到軍法官來揹黑鍋，因為法院不敢判的，現在交由軍法官來判，法院判輕的，未來要求軍法官要判重，我不願意看到我們的軍事審判制度在未來變成民進黨遂行要去整肅異己的手段，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：我會本於初衷，我們就是保障人權，兼顧真實的發現及軍紀的維護，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝翁委員、謝謝部長。","接下來請陳俊宇委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":316,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-4","speakers":["沈伯洋","羅美玲","馬文君","王定宇","陳冠廷","黃仁","陳永康","林楚茵","翁曉玲","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","張啓楷","徐巧芯","李坤城","邱志偉","蔡易餘","林憶君","蘇清泉","王鴻薇"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-03-19"],"gazette_id":"1142801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142801_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況暨「四年期國防總檢討」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142801_00016"}}}