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\"好\", \"start\": 336.794, \"end\": 336.854, \"score\": 0.335}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"阿\", \"start\": 336.854, \"end\": 336.874, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"媛\", \"start\": 336.874, \"end\": 336.894, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,059 --> 00:00:04,105\n謝謝主席我請劉主委\n\n2\n00:00:13,634 --> 00:00:34,786\n主委您身為台積電的董事法就是政府的法人代表你在2月份有去美國參加台積電的董事會那請問一下當天的董事會裡面有沒有討論台積電要擴大美國投資再增加投資1000億美元的提案\n\n3\n00:00:37,352 --> 00:01:00,424\n有或沒有委員是這樣子喔因為我是台積電董事齁我依法要遵守董事會的會議內容的秘密啦請你能體諒那我可以用國安會的角度來看看台積電我沒辦法用董事的角度來評論台積電否則會影響到我現在得到的訊息是當天其實並沒有就是投資一千億美元的提案\n\n4\n00:01:02,900 --> 00:01:27,222\n這個因為他是董事會的公司治理跟營業秘密現在講公司治理請問一下身為董事您什麼時候知道台積電有投資美國一千億美元擴大的這個我可以跟你肯定講這件事情的話如果是什麼時候的話我是比大家早知道\n\n5\n00:01:28,225 --> 00:01:45,211\n所以你在3月3號白宮記者會之前知道嗎?是的那你是在董事會的時候知道嗎?我是跟我們上層的整個政府同時都知道的\n\n6\n00:01:45,831 --> 00:02:02,236\n好所以你並不是在董事會裡面知道因為你剛才提到你剛才提到公司治理因為確實台積電其實它過去是一家公司治理非常良好的公司但是在這個案子裡面其實為什麼我會要今天要問這個問題因為\n\n7\n00:02:05,357 --> 00:02:30,909\n非常關心台積電投資的就是他們得到的資料很確切在美國的那場董事會特別到美國去召開董事會但是並沒有這個提案而且呢也沒有任何的重大訊息的公告所以擔心這樣的一個投資的這樣的一個程序是不是有違反公私自理的原則那麼\n\n8\n00:02:32,558 --> 00:02:49,881\n我先跟委員報告一般來講公司的正統做法他會在董事會取得一個概要授權不是細節授權那概要授權之後呢當他確定之後他會提出一個完整的計畫經過董事會的核定那董事會核定之後呢他才會\n\n9\n00:02:51,643 --> 00:03:05,400\n但是如果在董事會裡都沒有討論但是就直接的宣布這也就是我們外界所講的因為我們的政府一直說台積電的投資是沒有外力的\n\n10\n00:03:06,081 --> 00:03:24,179\n那麼如果這個是一個正常的公司的重大投資他照理說應該在董事會裡面先行討論然後對外宣布這是不是應該正常的公司治理的程序但是如果違反這樣的程序難道\n\n11\n00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:51,159\n難怪外界會認為這有所謂的外力的介入是不是委員我剛剛只是跟您報告我沒辦法去表達董事會的內容但是我並沒有說董事會沒有討論這件事就是因為主委你作為政府法人代表這個其實不應該再隱瞞而且這個事情已經是公布它如果還沒有公布你是基於公司治理你不能夠先行公布\n\n12\n00:03:52,000 --> 00:04:12,910\n公司沒有做重訓的公布你怎麼可以公布可是這已經公布了那麼久了那另外我再確定一下因為後來川普接受媒體的訪問突然說這個台積電會有2000億美元的投資所以大家非常的驚恐因為剛才您也回答1000億美元是白宮宣布的650億美元事實上是在拜登政府時候宣布的所以加起來1650億\n\n13\n00:04:18,993 --> 00:04:35,455\n可是當川普說會有兩千億美元的投資的時候一種可能就是川普碰轟他就自行的加碼另外一種是不是台積電仍然未來有可能進一步的對美國的投資包含投資英特爾\n\n14\n00:04:38,119 --> 00:04:54,879\n這個問題我有去了解跟公司來了解這個狀況那因為他們也表達的清楚他們對媒體的回應說這件事是不存在那他們告訴我說他們現在的態度也是依據他們對媒體的說明內容\n\n15\n00:04:55,379 --> 00:05:11,657\n所以川普那2000億美元是口誤或者是他自己錯誤的理解我個人的看法他應該是把台積電未來進去所做的營運的費用都放進去或者是供應鏈進去投資的費用算進來\n\n16\n00:05:12,648 --> 00:05:26,622\n所以基本上還是應該1000億美元再加上之前的650億但是每個公司都有營運成本會在那邊發生那每一年都會發生那這個發生舉個例子好了如果公司的毛利是40%100億在那裡就會有60億的發生那所以他會有不斷的發生加上供應鏈的投資\n\n17\n00:05:30,666 --> 00:05:36,894\n好最後一句話阿媛也響鈴兩次就是身為關股因為我們還是最大的股東我覺得我們還是要嚴守作為您作為董事要幫我們政府的關股來做把關好不好是的這個我一定會努力做我一定會做到好謝謝謝謝阿媛謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3059\t4105\t謝謝主席我請劉主委\n13634\t34786\t主委您身為台積電的董事法就是政府的法人代表你在2月份有去美國參加台積電的董事會那請問一下當天的董事會裡面有沒有討論台積電要擴大美國投資再增加投資1000億美元的提案\n37352\t60424\t有或沒有委員是這樣子喔因為我是台積電董事齁我依法要遵守董事會的會議內容的秘密啦請你能體諒那我可以用國安會的角度來看看台積電我沒辦法用董事的角度來評論台積電否則會影響到我現在得到的訊息是當天其實並沒有就是投資一千億美元的提案\n62900\t87222\t這個因為他是董事會的公司治理跟營業秘密現在講公司治理請問一下身為董事您什麼時候知道台積電有投資美國一千億美元擴大的這個我可以跟你肯定講這件事情的話如果是什麼時候的話我是比大家早知道\n88225\t105211\t所以你在3月3號白宮記者會之前知道嗎?是的那你是在董事會的時候知道嗎?我是跟我們上層的整個政府同時都知道的\n105831\t122236\t好所以你並不是在董事會裡面知道因為你剛才提到你剛才提到公司治理因為確實台積電其實它過去是一家公司治理非常良好的公司但是在這個案子裡面其實為什麼我會要今天要問這個問題因為\n125357\t150909\t非常關心台積電投資的就是他們得到的資料很確切在美國的那場董事會特別到美國去召開董事會但是並沒有這個提案而且呢也沒有任何的重大訊息的公告所以擔心這樣的一個投資的這樣的一個程序是不是有違反公私自理的原則那麼\n152558\t169881\t我先跟委員報告一般來講公司的正統做法他會在董事會取得一個概要授權不是細節授權那概要授權之後呢當他確定之後他會提出一個完整的計畫經過董事會的核定那董事會核定之後呢他才會\n171643\t185400\t但是如果在董事會裡都沒有討論但是就直接的宣布這也就是我們外界所講的因為我們的政府一直說台積電的投資是沒有外力的\n186081\t204179\t那麼如果這個是一個正常的公司的重大投資他照理說應該在董事會裡面先行討論然後對外宣布這是不是應該正常的公司治理的程序但是如果違反這樣的程序難道\n205480\t231159\t難怪外界會認為這有所謂的外力的介入是不是委員我剛剛只是跟您報告我沒辦法去表達董事會的內容但是我並沒有說董事會沒有討論這件事就是因為主委你作為政府法人代表這個其實不應該再隱瞞而且這個事情已經是公布它如果還沒有公布你是基於公司治理你不能夠先行公布\n232000\t252910\t公司沒有做重訓的公布你怎麼可以公布 可是這已經公布了那麼久了那另外我再確定一下因為後來川普接受媒體的訪問突然說這個台積電會有2000億美元的投資所以大家非常的驚恐因為剛才您也回答1000億美元是白宮宣布的650億美元事實上是在拜登政府時候宣布的所以加起來1650億\n258993\t275455\t可是當川普說會有兩千億美元的投資的時候一種可能就是川普碰轟他就自行的加碼另外一種是不是台積電仍然未來有可能進一步的對美國的投資包含投資英特爾\n278119\t294879\t這個問題我有去了解跟公司來了解這個狀況那因為他們也表達的清楚他們對媒體的回應說這件事是不存在那他們告訴我說他們現在的態度也是依據他們對媒體的說明內容\n295379\t311657\t所以川普那2000億美元是口誤或者是他自己錯誤的理解我個人的看法他應該是把台積電未來進去所做的營運的費用都放進去或者是供應鏈進去投資的費用算進來\n312648\t326622\t所以基本上還是應該1000億美元再加上之前的650億但是每個公司都有營運成本會在那邊發生那每一年都會發生那這個發生舉個例子好了如果公司的毛利是40%100億在那裡就會有60億的發生那所以他會有不斷的發生加上供應鏈的投資\n330666\t336894\t好最後一句話阿媛也響鈴兩次就是身為關股因為我們還是最大的股東我覺得我們還是要嚴守作為您作為董事要幫我們政府的關股來做把關好不好是的這個我一定會努力做我一定會做到好謝謝謝謝阿媛謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我請劉主委\n主委您身為台積電的董事法就是政府的法人代表你在2月份有去美國參加台積電的董事會那請問一下當天的董事會裡面有沒有討論台積電要擴大美國投資再增加投資1000億美元的提案\n有或沒有委員是這樣子喔因為我是台積電董事齁我依法要遵守董事會的會議內容的秘密啦請你能體諒那我可以用國安會的角度來看看台積電我沒辦法用董事的角度來評論台積電否則會影響到我現在得到的訊息是當天其實並沒有就是投資一千億美元的提案\n這個因為他是董事會的公司治理跟營業秘密現在講公司治理請問一下身為董事您什麼時候知道台積電有投資美國一千億美元擴大的這個我可以跟你肯定講這件事情的話如果是什麼時候的話我是比大家早知道\n所以你在3月3號白宮記者會之前知道嗎?是的那你是在董事會的時候知道嗎?我是跟我們上層的整個政府同時都知道的\n好所以你並不是在董事會裡面知道因為你剛才提到你剛才提到公司治理因為確實台積電其實它過去是一家公司治理非常良好的公司但是在這個案子裡面其實為什麼我會要今天要問這個問題因為\n非常關心台積電投資的就是他們得到的資料很確切在美國的那場董事會特別到美國去召開董事會但是並沒有這個提案而且呢也沒有任何的重大訊息的公告所以擔心這樣的一個投資的這樣的一個程序是不是有違反公私自理的原則那麼\n我先跟委員報告一般來講公司的正統做法他會在董事會取得一個概要授權不是細節授權那概要授權之後呢當他確定之後他會提出一個完整的計畫經過董事會的核定那董事會核定之後呢他才會\n但是如果在董事會裡都沒有討論但是就直接的宣布這也就是我們外界所講的因為我們的政府一直說台積電的投資是沒有外力的\n那麼如果這個是一個正常的公司的重大投資他照理說應該在董事會裡面先行討論然後對外宣布這是不是應該正常的公司治理的程序但是如果違反這樣的程序難道\n難怪外界會認為這有所謂的外力的介入是不是委員我剛剛只是跟您報告我沒辦法去表達董事會的內容但是我並沒有說董事會沒有討論這件事就是因為主委你作為政府法人代表這個其實不應該再隱瞞而且這個事情已經是公布它如果還沒有公布你是基於公司治理你不能夠先行公布\n公司沒有做重訓的公布你怎麼可以公布 可是這已經公布了那麼久了那另外我再確定一下因為後來川普接受媒體的訪問突然說這個台積電會有2000億美元的投資所以大家非常的驚恐因為剛才您也回答1000億美元是白宮宣布的650億美元事實上是在拜登政府時候宣布的所以加起來1650億\n可是當川普說會有兩千億美元的投資的時候一種可能就是川普碰轟他就自行的加碼另外一種是不是台積電仍然未來有可能進一步的對美國的投資包含投資英特爾\n這個問題我有去了解跟公司來了解這個狀況那因為他們也表達的清楚他們對媒體的回應說這件事是不存在那他們告訴我說他們現在的態度也是依據他們對媒體的說明內容\n所以川普那2000億美元是口誤或者是他自己錯誤的理解我個人的看法他應該是把台積電未來進去所做的營運的費用都放進去或者是供應鏈進去投資的費用算進來\n所以基本上還是應該1000億美元再加上之前的650億但是每個公司都有營運成本會在那邊發生那每一年都會發生那這個發生舉個例子好了如果公司的毛利是40%100億在那裡就會有60億的發生那所以他會有不斷的發生加上供應鏈的投資\n好最後一句話阿媛也響鈴兩次就是身為關股因為我們還是最大的股東我覺得我們還是要嚴守作為您作為董事要幫我們政府的關股來做把關好不好是的這個我一定會努力做我一定會做到好謝謝謝謝阿媛謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.059 --> 00:04.105\n謝謝主席我請劉主委\n\n00:13.634 --> 00:34.786\n主委您身為台積電的董事法就是政府的法人代表你在2月份有去美國參加台積電的董事會那請問一下當天的董事會裡面有沒有討論台積電要擴大美國投資再增加投資1000億美元的提案\n\n00:37.352 --> 01:00.424\n有或沒有委員是這樣子喔因為我是台積電董事齁我依法要遵守董事會的會議內容的秘密啦請你能體諒那我可以用國安會的角度來看看台積電我沒辦法用董事的角度來評論台積電否則會影響到我現在得到的訊息是當天其實並沒有就是投資一千億美元的提案\n\n01:02.900 --> 01:27.222\n這個因為他是董事會的公司治理跟營業秘密現在講公司治理請問一下身為董事您什麼時候知道台積電有投資美國一千億美元擴大的這個我可以跟你肯定講這件事情的話如果是什麼時候的話我是比大家早知道\n\n01:28.225 --> 01:45.211\n所以你在3月3號白宮記者會之前知道嗎?是的那你是在董事會的時候知道嗎?我是跟我們上層的整個政府同時都知道的\n\n01:45.831 --> 02:02.236\n好所以你並不是在董事會裡面知道因為你剛才提到你剛才提到公司治理因為確實台積電其實它過去是一家公司治理非常良好的公司但是在這個案子裡面其實為什麼我會要今天要問這個問題因為\n\n02:05.357 --> 02:30.909\n非常關心台積電投資的就是他們得到的資料很確切在美國的那場董事會特別到美國去召開董事會但是並沒有這個提案而且呢也沒有任何的重大訊息的公告所以擔心這樣的一個投資的這樣的一個程序是不是有違反公私自理的原則那麼\n\n02:32.558 --> 02:49.881\n我先跟委員報告一般來講公司的正統做法他會在董事會取得一個概要授權不是細節授權那概要授權之後呢當他確定之後他會提出一個完整的計畫經過董事會的核定那董事會核定之後呢他才會\n\n02:51.643 --> 03:05.400\n但是如果在董事會裡都沒有討論但是就直接的宣布這也就是我們外界所講的因為我們的政府一直說台積電的投資是沒有外力的\n\n03:06.081 --> 03:24.179\n那麼如果這個是一個正常的公司的重大投資他照理說應該在董事會裡面先行討論然後對外宣布這是不是應該正常的公司治理的程序但是如果違反這樣的程序難道\n\n03:25.480 --> 03:51.159\n難怪外界會認為這有所謂的外力的介入是不是委員我剛剛只是跟您報告我沒辦法去表達董事會的內容但是我並沒有說董事會沒有討論這件事就是因為主委你作為政府法人代表這個其實不應該再隱瞞而且這個事情已經是公布它如果還沒有公布你是基於公司治理你不能夠先行公布\n\n03:52.000 --> 04:12.910\n公司沒有做重訓的公布你怎麼可以公布可是這已經公布了那麼久了那另外我再確定一下因為後來川普接受媒體的訪問突然說這個台積電會有2000億美元的投資所以大家非常的驚恐因為剛才您也回答1000億美元是白宮宣布的650億美元事實上是在拜登政府時候宣布的所以加起來1650億\n\n04:18.993 --> 04:35.455\n可是當川普說會有兩千億美元的投資的時候一種可能就是川普碰轟他就自行的加碼另外一種是不是台積電仍然未來有可能進一步的對美國的投資包含投資英特爾\n\n04:38.119 --> 04:54.879\n這個問題我有去了解跟公司來了解這個狀況那因為他們也表達的清楚他們對媒體的回應說這件事是不存在那他們告訴我說他們現在的態度也是依據他們對媒體的說明內容\n\n04:55.379 --> 05:11.657\n所以川普那2000億美元是口誤或者是他自己錯誤的理解我個人的看法他應該是把台積電未來進去所做的營運的費用都放進去或者是供應鏈進去投資的費用算進來\n\n05:12.648 --> 05:26.622\n所以基本上還是應該1000億美元再加上之前的650億但是每個公司都有營運成本會在那邊發生那每一年都會發生那這個發生舉個例子好了如果公司的毛利是40%100億在那裡就會有60億的發生那所以他會有不斷的發生加上供應鏈的投資\n\n05:30.666 --> 05:36.894\n好最後一句話阿媛也響鈴兩次就是身為關股因為我們還是最大的股東我覺得我們還是要嚴守作為您作為董事要幫我們政府的關股來做把關好不好是的這個我一定會努力做我一定會做到好謝謝謝謝阿媛謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.059,"end":4.105,"text":"謝謝主席我請劉主委"},{"start":13.634,"end":34.786,"text":"主委您身為台積電的董事法就是政府的法人代表你在2月份有去美國參加台積電的董事會那請問一下當天的董事會裡面有沒有討論台積電要擴大美國投資再增加投資1000億美元的提案"},{"start":37.352,"end":60.424,"text":"有或沒有委員是這樣子喔因為我是台積電董事齁我依法要遵守董事會的會議內容的秘密啦請你能體諒那我可以用國安會的角度來看看台積電我沒辦法用董事的角度來評論台積電否則會影響到我現在得到的訊息是當天其實並沒有就是投資一千億美元的提案"},{"start":62.9,"end":87.222,"text":"這個因為他是董事會的公司治理跟營業秘密現在講公司治理請問一下身為董事您什麼時候知道台積電有投資美國一千億美元擴大的這個我可以跟你肯定講這件事情的話如果是什麼時候的話我是比大家早知道"},{"start":88.225,"end":105.211,"text":"所以你在3月3號白宮記者會之前知道嗎?是的那你是在董事會的時候知道嗎?我是跟我們上層的整個政府同時都知道的"},{"start":105.831,"end":122.236,"text":"好所以你並不是在董事會裡面知道因為你剛才提到你剛才提到公司治理因為確實台積電其實它過去是一家公司治理非常良好的公司但是在這個案子裡面其實為什麼我會要今天要問這個問題因為"},{"start":125.357,"end":150.909,"text":"非常關心台積電投資的就是他們得到的資料很確切在美國的那場董事會特別到美國去召開董事會但是並沒有這個提案而且呢也沒有任何的重大訊息的公告所以擔心這樣的一個投資的這樣的一個程序是不是有違反公私自理的原則那麼"},{"start":152.558,"end":169.881,"text":"我先跟委員報告一般來講公司的正統做法他會在董事會取得一個概要授權不是細節授權那概要授權之後呢當他確定之後他會提出一個完整的計畫經過董事會的核定那董事會核定之後呢他才會"},{"start":171.643,"end":185.4,"text":"但是如果在董事會裡都沒有討論但是就直接的宣布這也就是我們外界所講的因為我們的政府一直說台積電的投資是沒有外力的"},{"start":186.081,"end":204.179,"text":"那麼如果這個是一個正常的公司的重大投資他照理說應該在董事會裡面先行討論然後對外宣布這是不是應該正常的公司治理的程序但是如果違反這樣的程序難道"},{"start":205.48,"end":231.159,"text":"難怪外界會認為這有所謂的外力的介入是不是委員我剛剛只是跟您報告我沒辦法去表達董事會的內容但是我並沒有說董事會沒有討論這件事就是因為主委你作為政府法人代表這個其實不應該再隱瞞而且這個事情已經是公布它如果還沒有公布你是基於公司治理你不能夠先行公布"},{"start":232,"end":252.91,"text":"公司沒有做重訓的公布你怎麼可以公布 可是這已經公布了那麼久了那另外我再確定一下因為後來川普接受媒體的訪問突然說這個台積電會有2000億美元的投資所以大家非常的驚恐因為剛才您也回答1000億美元是白宮宣布的650億美元事實上是在拜登政府時候宣布的所以加起來1650億"},{"start":258.993,"end":275.455,"text":"可是當川普說會有兩千億美元的投資的時候一種可能就是川普碰轟他就自行的加碼另外一種是不是台積電仍然未來有可能進一步的對美國的投資包含投資英特爾"},{"start":278.119,"end":294.879,"text":"這個問題我有去了解跟公司來了解這個狀況那因為他們也表達的清楚他們對媒體的回應說這件事是不存在那他們告訴我說他們現在的態度也是依據他們對媒體的說明內容"},{"start":295.379,"end":311.657,"text":"所以川普那2000億美元是口誤或者是他自己錯誤的理解我個人的看法他應該是把台積電未來進去所做的營運的費用都放進去或者是供應鏈進去投資的費用算進來"},{"start":312.648,"end":326.622,"text":"所以基本上還是應該1000億美元再加上之前的650億但是每個公司都有營運成本會在那邊發生那每一年都會發生那這個發生舉個例子好了如果公司的毛利是40%100億在那裡就會有60億的發生那所以他會有不斷的發生加上供應鏈的投資"},{"start":330.666,"end":336.894,"text":"好最後一句話阿媛也響鈴兩次就是身為關股因為我們還是最大的股東我覺得我們還是要嚴守作為您作為董事要幫我們政府的關股來做把關好不好是的這個我一定會努力做我一定會做到好謝謝謝謝阿媛謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":603,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時36分）謝謝主席，我請劉主委。"],["主席：請劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：王委員早。"],["王委員鴻薇：主委好。你身為台積電的董事，就是政府的法人代表，你在2月份有去美國參加台積電的董事會，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：請問一下，當天的董事會有沒有討論台積電要擴大美國投資，再增加投資1,000億美元的提案？有或沒有？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：因為我是台積電董事，我依法要遵守董事會會議內容的秘密。"],["王委員鴻薇：不過你是政府法人代表。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：請你能體諒，我可以用國發會的角度來看台積電，我沒辦法用董事的角度來評論台積電，否則會影響到股票市場。"],["王委員鴻薇：我現在得到的訊息是當天其實並沒有投資1,000億美元的提案，對吧？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：因為這是董事會的公司治理和營業秘密的問題。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，現在講公司治理，請問一下，身為董事，你什麼時候知道台積電有擴大投資美國1,000億美元這件事？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我可以跟你肯定講這件事情，如果是什麼時候的話，我是比大家早知道。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你在3月3日白宮記者會之前知道嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：你是在董事會的時候知道嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我是跟我們上層整個政府同時知道的。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你並不是在董事會裡面知道……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：重大的事情會送到董事會。"],["王委員鴻薇：你剛才提到公司治理，因為台積電過去確實是一家公司治理非常良好的公司，但是在這個案子裡面，為什麼我今天要問這個問題，因為非常關心台積電投資的人，他們得到的資料是很確切的知道特別到美國召開的那一場董事會，並沒有這個提案，而且也沒有任何重大訊息的公告，所以担心這樣一個投資的程序是不是有違反公司治理原則？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我先跟委員報告，一般來講，公司的正統做法是會在董事會取得一個概要授權，不是細節授權，概要授權之後，當他確定之後，他會提出一個完整的計畫經過董事會核定，董事會核定之後，才會實施送件到經濟部。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是如果在董事會裡都沒有討論就直接宣布，這也就是我們外界所講的，因為我們政府一直說台積電的投資是沒有外力的，如果這是一個正常公司的重大投資，照理說應該在董事會裡面先行討論，然後對外宣布，這是不是正常的公司治理程序？如果違反這樣的程序，難怪外界會認為這有所謂的外力介入，是不是？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員，我剛剛只是跟您報告我沒辦法表達董事會的內容，但是我並沒有說董事會沒有討論這件事。"],["王委員鴻薇：你作為政府法人代表，其實不應該再隱瞞，而且這件事情已經公布，他如果還沒有公布，你是基於公司治理，不能先行公布，公司沒有做重訊的公布，你怎麼可以公布，可是這已經公布了那麼久了。","另外我再確定一下，因為後來川普接受媒體訪問，突然說台積電會有2,000億美元的投資，所以大家非常驚恐，因為剛才您也回答，1,000億美元是白宮宣布的，650億美元事實上是在拜登政府時宣布的，所以加起來是1,650億。可是當川普說會有2,000億美元的投資時，一種可能就是川普「膨風」，自行加碼；另外一種是不是台積電未來仍然有可能進一步的對美國投資，包含投資Intel？。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，這個問題我有跟公司了解狀況，而他們也表達得很清楚，對媒體回應說這件事是不存在的。他們告訴我，他們現在的態度也是依據他們對媒體說明的內容。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以川普那2,000億美元是口誤或者是他自己錯誤的理解？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我個人的看法是，他應該是把台積電未來進去所做的營運費用都放進去，或者是把供應鏈投資的費用也算進來。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以基本上還是應該1,000億美元，再加上之前的650億？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，但是每個公司都會有營運成本，每一年成本都會在那邊發生，舉例來說，如果公司的毛利是40%，100億在那裡就會有60億營運成本的發生，所以成本會不斷的發生，加上供應鏈的投資。"],["王委員鴻薇：最後一句話，因為已響鈴兩次了。就是身為官股，因為我們還是最大的股東，我覺得我們還是要嚴守，您作為董事，要幫政府的官股來把關，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的，這個我一定會努力，我一定會做到。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，我們現在請賴瑞隆委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-3","speakers":["謝衣鳯","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","陳超明","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra 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