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院會要求凍結以後要院會報告以後解凍了很多問題是後來都解決您舉一個例子那我就不得不說那你舉一個例子哪一個案子要在院會專案報告同意以後才可以解凍你告訴我你隨便去翻每一年都好幾個案子不是專案報告啦那個部長你完全弄錯了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 154.83, \"end\": 154.97, \"score\": 0.576}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 154.97, \"end\": 155.57, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 155.57, \"end\": 155.751, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 155.751, \"end\": 155.851, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 155.851, \"end\": 155.991, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 155.991, \"end\": 156.411, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 156.411, \"end\": 156.571, \"score\": 0.714}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 156.571, \"end\": 156.951, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 156.951, \"end\": 157.532, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 157.532, \"end\": 157.632, \"score\": 0.449}, {\"word\": \"有\", 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{\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"延\", \"start\": 484.252, \"end\": 484.272, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 484.272, \"end\": 484.372, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 484.372, \"end\": 484.592, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"役\", \"start\": 484.592, \"end\": 484.612, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 484.612, \"end\": 484.733, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 484.733, \"end\": 484.793, \"score\": 0.602}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 484.793, \"end\": 484.913, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 484.913, \"end\": 485.013, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 485.013, \"end\": 485.033, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 485.033, \"end\": 485.053, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 485.053, \"end\": 485.173, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 644.175, \"end\": 644.895, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 644.895, \"end\": 645.015, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 645.015, \"end\": 645.195, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 645.195, \"end\": 645.315, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 645.315, \"end\": 645.455, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 645.455, \"end\": 645.715, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 645.715, \"end\": 645.835, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 645.835, \"end\": 645.975, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 645.975, \"end\": 646.556, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 646.556, \"end\": 646.636, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 646.636, \"end\": 646.996, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"避\", \"start\": 646.996, \"end\": 647.276, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 647.276, \"end\": 647.396, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 647.396, \"end\": 647.576, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 647.576, \"end\": 647.736, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 647.736, \"end\": 647.896, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 647.896, \"end\": 648.016, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 648.016, \"end\": 648.136, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 648.136, \"end\": 648.236, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 648.236, \"end\": 648.296, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 648.296, \"end\": 648.377, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 648.377, \"end\": 648.477, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 648.477, \"end\": 648.497, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,330 --> 00:00:26,690\n我們有請顧部長今年國防部的預算增加將近400億這是歷史上的一個新高事實上這個三減的幅度也是最近幾年的新低今天我們駐美代表余大雷\n\n2\n00:00:27,765 --> 00:00:51,597\n有一個華爾街日報的一個專訪今天最新的消息,他特別在強調啊我們台灣最近這十年啊國防預算已經翻了一倍了已經翻了一倍了可是呢,我告訴你前陣子啊,出現一個非常奇怪是不是有人到美國去告洋狀而且還說了謊所以導致\n\n3\n00:00:53,462 --> 00:00:58,230\n美國國防部的這個次長提名人柯博吉說台灣的國會大山的這個經費令人不安\n\n4\n00:01:06,468 --> 00:01:27,837\n怎麼會出現這麼離譜的這麼離譜的謠言跟委員報告您這個螢幕上講是3.46應該不對吧應該是3.84億吧終究把這個算進來也是近年來的新低對不對最重要是剛剛講的沒有不是新低不是新低不是新低84億不是新低最近幾年的新低最重要沒有部長\n\n5\n00:01:28,257 --> 00:01:49,573\n最重要他是創了歷史以來的新高嘛我剛剛特別跟你講我們駐美代表為什麼要你現在講的是指預算佔新高那三減數沒有創新低啊最近幾年的新低啦我們預算一直在穩健的成長但是呢我們今年算的是84億你沒有算新低啊你這個講話也不對你說只3.46億是不對啦\n\n6\n00:01:53,175 --> 00:02:03,422\n對啦就是三減創最你說不是歷年新低可是最近幾年的新低啦這個是學你們卓院長講的卓院長沒有卓院長一直在講說什麼凍結是歷年新高我跟他講過去光是有八個年度比他就超過了結果他改口是最近幾年凍結的新低這個我們接受啦\n\n7\n00:02:13,968 --> 00:02:27,677\n沒有啦部長現在不要爭議這個現在最重要是你增加你現在還有一些針對性的刪減跟那個凍結凍結還要經過大院專案報告還要能夠同意所以部長那個抱電話問你你已經坐過清管會主委你也坐過國安會的這個秘書長你印象中有凍結的預算沒有被後來被解凍的嗎\n\n8\n00:02:34,830 --> 00:03:00,866\n以前凍結預算都在委員會就解凍啊沒有沒有在委員會解凍你嚴重被誤導了我去查了一次院會要求凍結以後要院會報告以後解凍了很多問題是後來都解決您舉一個例子那我就不得不說那你舉一個例子哪一個案子要在院會專案報告同意以後才可以解凍你告訴我你隨便去翻每一年都好幾個案子不是專案報告啦那個部長你完全弄錯了\n\n9\n00:03:04,068 --> 00:03:11,171\n立法院的立法院叫你去院會提專案不見得是一定是有專案報告可能是提了一個聽我講完聽我講完有兩個層次一個是你提了一個報告來就解凍了對不對這個是目前你可能最希望的連報告都不要第二個是\n\n10\n00:03:21,072 --> 00:03:33,823\n就是你提了報告來以後經過立法院的解凍像昨天我就很清楚跟交通委員會講交通委員會在上個會去年差不多這個時候它經過一次的會議它解凍了31個凍結案啊\n\n11\n00:03:36,534 --> 00:03:40,538\n你已經當了經管會主委當了秘書長部長來我更重要我要問你跟委員報告您這邊凍結了899億去年才凍結2億都是委員會書面報告或專案報告沒有在院會做專案報告才可以解凍你的凍結數高達899億其中\n\n12\n00:03:57,472 --> 00:04:22,423\n業務費的部分應該是佔了744億業務費是所有部位全部凍結的30%那會單獨叫你一個國安部長去那邊報告嗎當然是整體提出來以後整體就處理了嘛這很簡單你不要想太誤導最重要的部長你不是來張委員也不是院長我不曉得院長要如何主持這個到院會專案報告來跟你講從以前的往例啊這個解凍只要是你解決的問題為什麼會凍結\n\n13\n00:04:24,944 --> 00:04:42,521\n就是因為我們每次問你們問題的時候你們要請答的時候不回答問題的時候當木頭人不回答對不對我們的調查權你們也不給我們所以是用預算權去凍結完之後叫你解決問題啊重點是你說解決問題就解決怎麼樣最重要的來我來幫王定宇打抱不平你講說那個預算被大砍我問你如果砍的是對的類銷專案買無人機對不對\n\n14\n00:04:49,687 --> 00:05:08,622\n那個原因是因為美國他們自己本來報給我們多少116億對不對後來是他們自己改的啊改了55億那這個要不要刪減連王定宇都贊成啊對不對結果變成是柯建民出來講所以王定宇還罵他說你認知是不是有問題\n\n15\n00:05:10,014 --> 00:05:34,473\n明明是美國自己的報價把他剪下來每一部分都很民主民高啊當然是要刪減啊各位委員報告我們在外交官方委員會這些的都經過大家朝野在外交官方委員會大家都同意現在主要的部分是到了院會之後啊你比如說我一直在講的國外的旅費跟訓練費用的支出\n\n16\n00:05:34,793 --> 00:06:00,358\n他最重要的就是他寫一個不得流用你這個不得流用就完蛋了我們現在我已經坦白講到國外協訓你現在講的都是歷年來立法院成立以來每一年都是這樣審議算沒有很多規定沒有流用的沒有不得流用這四個字出現過嘛通山的項目裡面沒有這樣子嘛我不要說要你下台我說我拿出來不要講一個如果有十次不得流用你要不要跟全民道歉\n\n17\n00:06:01,098 --> 00:06:17,215\n不要講一次喔我去舉十個例子出來你要不要跟人民道歉通山的項目過去這個是立法院長久審議算的怎麼會沒有流用這個字眼呢這是預算法裡面明定的啊每一年都這樣沒有在通山的項目裡面去講不得流用的\n\n18\n00:06:18,086 --> 00:06:45,143\n有阿爸部長這樣好不好我提十個你跟前面道歉好不好我提十個你跟前面道歉好OK現在最重要的凍結是可以解凍的部長你的責任應該是盡快提出解凍案我們院會或者是委員會趕快通過趕快解決那問你一個比較重要人民股關係的問題可是那個院會要求我們要花費百分之三十以上才可以去申請解凍那這個又設下了一個門檻三十那現在已經三月底啦不就是差不多時間了嗎沒有啊\n\n19\n00:06:48,045 --> 00:07:02,412\n議連的部長部長你做一下顧為政務官啊每一年禮拜都是這樣我們會遵照委員的指示儘速提出解凍案也希望院會儘速進行解凍對就是這樣對你來這邊是要解決問題的要倒退後來問一個民眾現在最關心的這幾天啊有出現兩個很重要的議題一個說我們的義務役啊要從一年延長為兩年\n\n20\n00:07:16,803 --> 00:07:31,772\n第二個是女性可能要服兵役部長,這兩件事情有可能成真嗎?沒有沒有任何這樣的規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃?對,沒有當初這個,因為是四個月\n\n21\n00:07:34,239 --> 00:07:50,999\n討論一段時間就變一年了嘛對不對這段時間美國有沒有關心希望我們自己防衛自己把定義延長到兩年我沒有接觸過美黃給我任何這樣的訊息那部長因為你應該任期應該還有三年啦你能不能保證在你的任期內不會我們的義務役的\n\n22\n00:07:53,642 --> 00:08:06,034\n議期不會從一年變兩年我怎麼知道我的任期還要多我是政務官沒有任期好所以保證你的任內我們的兵役不會從義務役不會從一年變兩年我們現在正在確實的檢討一年級義務役的訓練成效沒有做任何有關延長為兩年的義務役的一個規劃存在也沒有女性扶義務役的規劃的案子存在\n\n23\n00:08:20,319 --> 00:08:46,252\n我給大家看一個數據這是國防研究院的兩篇報告都是2月底密集發的兩篇研究報告第一篇志願士兵的徵選條件結論是什麼建立想實評估女性人力服役物役的政策開發人力的來源第二篇結論是什麼女性服役物役是未來兵役制度改革的可行方案之一\n\n24\n00:08:48,088 --> 00:09:09,273\n國防研究院是你國防部出席的你官方的智庫欸他為什麼要研究這個結論為什麼要女性要去服兵役國防院每個研究員都會發表他自己依據他的所認知的部分他的專業他做任何的一些報告案但這並不代表國防部的政策那你們前陣子還有聯合發清清楚楚寫嘛對不對\n\n25\n00:09:15,868 --> 00:09:36,660\n你們也提出了一部分就是說要針對這個做研究啊不是嗎你信服一位啊沒有嗎我國防部沒有做過這樣的研究啊好啦部長現在最重要我剛給你看的都是數據聯合報的報導還有你們國家研究院國防研究院的這個報告我們做個結論部長部長我們做個結論我們時間主席已經站起來了我們做個結論所以你的任內你能不能保證\n\n26\n00:09:42,301 --> 00:10:08,545\n兵役不會從一年變成兩年女性不會服兵役國防部現在沒有任何有關女性服藥服役務役以及要將役務役延長為兩年的任何規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃嘛那你的任內會不會推動變成是兩年我不知道我的任內有多長所以你不願意保證就對了我沒有什麼可以當四年這樣子的一個講話存在你的任內你不願意保證嘛現在就是要保證還是不保證\n\n27\n00:10:10,135 --> 00:10:12,698\n報告委員我剛剛已經一再重複了國防部現在沒有任何女性服務一無一跟一無一延長為兩年的規劃對沒有規劃嘛那你可不可以保證不會推動這個\n\n28\n00:10:22,645 --> 00:10:48,497\n我們現在就沒有這樣子的任何的政策推動你意思是不會推動對不對不會推動你任內也不會出現這兩個我現在沒有做過要有做過要有這樣的推動的這樣的一個計畫規劃存在部長你這樣的答案是閃抖還是保證說不會推動我沒有任何的閃抖委員你這樣子一直在repeat一些這樣子謝謝張委員讓全民看看部長到底是說他在規避還是他不會推動還是會推動謝謝張委員的質詢那部長先請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1330\t26690\t我們有請顧部長今年國防部的預算增加將近400億這是歷史上的一個新高事實上這個三減的幅度也是最近幾年的新低今天我們駐美代表余大雷\n27765\t51597\t有一個華爾街日報的一個專訪今天最新的消息,他特別在強調啊我們台灣最近這十年啊國防預算已經翻了一倍了已經翻了一倍了可是呢,我告訴你前陣子啊,出現一個非常奇怪是不是有人到美國去告洋狀而且還說了謊所以導致\n53462\t58230\t美國國防部的這個次長提名人柯博吉說台灣的國會大山的這個經費令人不安\n66468\t87837\t怎麼會出現這麼離譜的這麼離譜的謠言跟委員報告您這個螢幕上講是3.46應該不對吧應該是3.84億吧終究把這個算進來也是近年來的新低對不對最重要是剛剛講的沒有不是新低不是新低不是新低84億不是新低最近幾年的新低最重要沒有部長\n88257\t109573\t最重要他是創了歷史以來的新高嘛我剛剛特別跟你講我們駐美代表為什麼要你現在講的是指預算佔新高那三減數沒有創新低啊最近幾年的新低啦我們預算一直在穩健的成長但是呢我們今年算的是84億你沒有算新低啊你這個講話也不對你說只3.46億是不對啦\n113175\t123422\t對啦 就是三減創最 你說不是歷年新低可是最近幾年的新低啦這個是學你們卓院長講的卓院長沒有卓院長一直在講說什麼凍結是歷年新高我跟他講過去光是有八個年度比他就超過了結果他改口是最近幾年凍結的新低這個我們接受啦\n133968\t147677\t沒有啦 部長現在不要爭議這個 現在最重要是你增加你現在還有一些針對性的刪減跟那個凍結 凍結還要經過大院專案報告還要能夠同意所以部長 那個抱電話問你 你已經坐過清管會主委 你也坐過國安會的這個秘書長你印象中有凍結的預算沒有被 後來被解凍的嗎\n154830\t180866\t以前凍結預算都在委員會就解凍啊沒有沒有在委員會解凍你嚴重被誤導了我去查了一次 院會要求凍結以後要院會報告以後解凍了很多問題是後來都解決您舉一個例子那我就不得不說那你舉一個例子哪一個案子要在院會專案報告同意以後才可以解凍你告訴我你隨便去翻每一年都好幾個案子不是專案報告啦那個部長你完全弄錯了\n184068\t191171\t立法院的立法院叫你去院會提專案不見得是一定是有專案報告可能是提了一個聽我講完聽我講完有兩個層次一個是你提了一個報告來就解凍了對不對這個是目前你可能最希望的連報告都不要第二個是\n201072\t213823\t就是你提了報告來以後 經過立法院的解凍像昨天我就很清楚跟交通委員會講交通委員會在上個會 去年差不多這個時候它經過一次的會議 它解凍了31個凍結案啊\n216534\t220538\t你已經當了經管會主委當了秘書長部長來我更重要我要問你跟委員報告您這邊凍結了899億去年才凍結2億都是委員會書面報告或專案報告沒有在院會做專案報告才可以解凍你的凍結數高達899億其中\n237472\t262423\t業務費的部分應該是佔了744億業務費是所有部位全部凍結的30%那會單獨叫你一個國安部長去那邊報告嗎當然是整體提出來以後整體就處理了嘛這很簡單你不要想太誤導最重要的部長你不是來張委員也不是院長我不曉得院長要如何主持這個到院會專案報告來跟你講從以前的往例啊這個解凍只要是你解決的問題為什麼會凍結\n264944\t282521\t就是因為我們每次問你們問題的時候你們要請答的時候不回答問題的時候當木頭人不回答對不對我們的調查權你們也不給我們所以是用預算權去凍結完之後叫你解決問題啊重點是你說解決問題就解決怎麼樣最重要的來我來幫王定宇打抱不平你講說那個預算被大砍我問你如果砍的是對的類銷專案買無人機對不對\n289687\t308622\t那個原因是因為美國他們自己本來報給我們多少116億對不對後來是他們自己改的啊改了55億那這個要不要刪減連王定宇都贊成啊對不對結果變成是柯建民出來講所以王定宇還罵他說你認知是不是有問題\n310014\t334473\t明明是美國自己的報價把他剪下來每一部分都很民主民高啊 當然是要刪減啊各位委員報告我們在外交官方委員會這些的都經過大家朝野在外交官方委員會大家都同意現在主要的部分是到了院會之後啊你比如說我一直在講的國外的旅費跟訓練費用的支出\n334793\t360358\t他最重要的就是他寫一個不得流用你這個不得流用就完蛋了我們現在我已經坦白講到國外協訓你現在講的都是歷年來立法院成立以來每一年都是這樣審議算沒有很多規定沒有流用的沒有不得流用這四個字出現過嘛通山的項目裡面沒有這樣子嘛我不要說要你下台我說我拿出來不要講一個如果有十次不得流用你要不要跟全民道歉\n361098\t377215\t不要講一次喔我去舉十個例子出來你要不要跟人民道歉通山的項目過去這個是立法院長久審議算的怎麼會沒有流用這個字眼呢這是預算法裡面明定的啊每一年都這樣沒有在通山的項目裡面去講不得流用的\n378086\t405143\t有 阿爸 部長這樣好不好 我提十個你跟前面道歉 好不好我提十個 你跟前面道歉好 OK 現在最重要的 凍結是可以解凍的部長你的責任應該是盡快提出解凍案我們院會或者是委員會趕快通過 趕快解決那問你一個比較重要 人民股關係的問題可是那個院會要求我們要花費百分之三十以上才可以去申請解凍那這個又設下了一個門檻三十 那現在已經三月底啦不就是差不多時間了嗎沒有啊\n408045\t422412\t議連的 部長 部長 你做一下顧為政務官啊 每一年禮拜都是這樣我們會遵照委員的指示 儘速提出解凍案 也希望院會儘速進行解凍對 就是這樣 對 你來這邊是要解決問題的 要倒退後來 問一個民眾現在最關心的 這幾天啊 有出現兩個很重要的議題一個說我們的義務役啊 要從一年延長為兩年\n436803\t451772\t第二個是女性可能要服兵役部長,這兩件事情有可能成真嗎?沒有沒有任何這樣的規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃?對,沒有當初這個,因為是四個月\n454239\t470999\t討論一段時間就變一年了嘛對不對這段時間美國有沒有關心希望我們自己防衛自己把定義延長到兩年我沒有接觸過美黃給我任何這樣的訊息那部長因為你應該任期應該還有三年啦你能不能保證在你的任期內不會我們的義務役的\n473642\t486034\t議期不會從一年變兩年我怎麼知道我的任期還要多 我是政務官沒有任期好 所以保證你的任內我們的兵役不會從 義務役不會從一年變兩年我們現在正在確實的檢討一年級義務役的訓練成效沒有做任何有關延長為兩年的義務役的一個規劃存在也沒有女性扶義務役的規劃的案子存在\n500319\t526252\t我給大家看一個數據這是國防研究院的兩篇報告都是2月底密集發的兩篇研究報告第一篇 志願士兵的徵選條件結論是什麼建立想實評估女性人力服役物役的政策開發人力的來源第二篇 結論是什麼女性服役物役是未來兵役制度改革的可行方案之一\n528088\t549273\t國防研究院是你國防部出席的你官方的智庫欸他為什麼要研究這個結論為什麼要女性要去服兵役國防院每個研究員都會發表他自己依據他的所認知的部分他的專業他做任何的一些報告案但這並不代表國防部的政策那你們前陣子還有聯合發清清楚楚寫嘛對不對\n555868\t576660\t你們也提出了一部分就是說要針對這個做研究啊不是嗎你信服一位啊沒有嗎我國防部沒有做過這樣的研究啊好啦部長現在最重要我剛給你看的都是數據聯合報的報導還有你們國家研究院國防研究院的這個報告我們做個結論部長部長我們做個結論我們時間主席已經站起來了我們做個結論所以你的任內你能不能保證\n582301\t608545\t兵役不會從一年變成兩年女性不會服兵役國防部現在沒有任何有關女性服藥服役務役以及要將役務役延長為兩年的任何規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃嘛那你的任內會不會推動變成是兩年我不知道我的任內有多長所以你不願意保證就對了我沒有什麼可以當四年這樣子的一個講話存在你的任內你不願意保證嘛現在就是要保證還是不保證\n610135\t612698\t報告委員 我剛剛已經一再重複了國防部現在沒有任何女性服務一無一跟一無一延長為兩年的規劃對 沒有規劃嘛 那你可不可以保證不會推動這個\n622645\t648497\t我們現在就沒有這樣子的任何的政策推動你意思是不會推動對不對不會推動你任內也不會出現這兩個我現在沒有做過要有做過要有這樣的推動的這樣的一個計畫規劃存在部長你這樣的答案是閃抖還是保證說不會推動我沒有任何的閃抖委員你這樣子一直在repeat一些這樣子謝謝張委員讓全民看看部長到底是說他在規避還是他不會推動還是會推動謝謝張委員的質詢那部長先請\n","txt":"我們有請顧部長今年國防部的預算增加將近400億這是歷史上的一個新高事實上這個三減的幅度也是最近幾年的新低今天我們駐美代表余大雷\n有一個華爾街日報的一個專訪今天最新的消息,他特別在強調啊我們台灣最近這十年啊國防預算已經翻了一倍了已經翻了一倍了可是呢,我告訴你前陣子啊,出現一個非常奇怪是不是有人到美國去告洋狀而且還說了謊所以導致\n美國國防部的這個次長提名人柯博吉說台灣的國會大山的這個經費令人不安\n怎麼會出現這麼離譜的這麼離譜的謠言跟委員報告您這個螢幕上講是3.46應該不對吧應該是3.84億吧終究把這個算進來也是近年來的新低對不對最重要是剛剛講的沒有不是新低不是新低不是新低84億不是新低最近幾年的新低最重要沒有部長\n最重要他是創了歷史以來的新高嘛我剛剛特別跟你講我們駐美代表為什麼要你現在講的是指預算佔新高那三減數沒有創新低啊最近幾年的新低啦我們預算一直在穩健的成長但是呢我們今年算的是84億你沒有算新低啊你這個講話也不對你說只3.46億是不對啦\n對啦 就是三減創最 你說不是歷年新低可是最近幾年的新低啦這個是學你們卓院長講的卓院長沒有卓院長一直在講說什麼凍結是歷年新高我跟他講過去光是有八個年度比他就超過了結果他改口是最近幾年凍結的新低這個我們接受啦\n沒有啦 部長現在不要爭議這個 現在最重要是你增加你現在還有一些針對性的刪減跟那個凍結 凍結還要經過大院專案報告還要能夠同意所以部長 那個抱電話問你 你已經坐過清管會主委 你也坐過國安會的這個秘書長你印象中有凍結的預算沒有被 後來被解凍的嗎\n以前凍結預算都在委員會就解凍啊沒有沒有在委員會解凍你嚴重被誤導了我去查了一次 院會要求凍結以後要院會報告以後解凍了很多問題是後來都解決您舉一個例子那我就不得不說那你舉一個例子哪一個案子要在院會專案報告同意以後才可以解凍你告訴我你隨便去翻每一年都好幾個案子不是專案報告啦那個部長你完全弄錯了\n立法院的立法院叫你去院會提專案不見得是一定是有專案報告可能是提了一個聽我講完聽我講完有兩個層次一個是你提了一個報告來就解凍了對不對這個是目前你可能最希望的連報告都不要第二個是\n就是你提了報告來以後 經過立法院的解凍像昨天我就很清楚跟交通委員會講交通委員會在上個會 去年差不多這個時候它經過一次的會議 它解凍了31個凍結案啊\n你已經當了經管會主委當了秘書長部長來我更重要我要問你跟委員報告您這邊凍結了899億去年才凍結2億都是委員會書面報告或專案報告沒有在院會做專案報告才可以解凍你的凍結數高達899億其中\n業務費的部分應該是佔了744億業務費是所有部位全部凍結的30%那會單獨叫你一個國安部長去那邊報告嗎當然是整體提出來以後整體就處理了嘛這很簡單你不要想太誤導最重要的部長你不是來張委員也不是院長我不曉得院長要如何主持這個到院會專案報告來跟你講從以前的往例啊這個解凍只要是你解決的問題為什麼會凍結\n就是因為我們每次問你們問題的時候你們要請答的時候不回答問題的時候當木頭人不回答對不對我們的調查權你們也不給我們所以是用預算權去凍結完之後叫你解決問題啊重點是你說解決問題就解決怎麼樣最重要的來我來幫王定宇打抱不平你講說那個預算被大砍我問你如果砍的是對的類銷專案買無人機對不對\n那個原因是因為美國他們自己本來報給我們多少116億對不對後來是他們自己改的啊改了55億那這個要不要刪減連王定宇都贊成啊對不對結果變成是柯建民出來講所以王定宇還罵他說你認知是不是有問題\n明明是美國自己的報價把他剪下來每一部分都很民主民高啊 當然是要刪減啊各位委員報告我們在外交官方委員會這些的都經過大家朝野在外交官方委員會大家都同意現在主要的部分是到了院會之後啊你比如說我一直在講的國外的旅費跟訓練費用的支出\n他最重要的就是他寫一個不得流用你這個不得流用就完蛋了我們現在我已經坦白講到國外協訓你現在講的都是歷年來立法院成立以來每一年都是這樣審議算沒有很多規定沒有流用的沒有不得流用這四個字出現過嘛通山的項目裡面沒有這樣子嘛我不要說要你下台我說我拿出來不要講一個如果有十次不得流用你要不要跟全民道歉\n不要講一次喔我去舉十個例子出來你要不要跟人民道歉通山的項目過去這個是立法院長久審議算的怎麼會沒有流用這個字眼呢這是預算法裡面明定的啊每一年都這樣沒有在通山的項目裡面去講不得流用的\n有 阿爸 部長這樣好不好 我提十個你跟前面道歉 好不好我提十個 你跟前面道歉好 OK 現在最重要的 凍結是可以解凍的部長你的責任應該是盡快提出解凍案我們院會或者是委員會趕快通過 趕快解決那問你一個比較重要 人民股關係的問題可是那個院會要求我們要花費百分之三十以上才可以去申請解凍那這個又設下了一個門檻三十 那現在已經三月底啦不就是差不多時間了嗎沒有啊\n議連的 部長 部長 你做一下顧為政務官啊 每一年禮拜都是這樣我們會遵照委員的指示 儘速提出解凍案 也希望院會儘速進行解凍對 就是這樣 對 你來這邊是要解決問題的 要倒退後來 問一個民眾現在最關心的 這幾天啊 有出現兩個很重要的議題一個說我們的義務役啊 要從一年延長為兩年\n第二個是女性可能要服兵役部長,這兩件事情有可能成真嗎?沒有沒有任何這樣的規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃?對,沒有當初這個,因為是四個月\n討論一段時間就變一年了嘛對不對這段時間美國有沒有關心希望我們自己防衛自己把定義延長到兩年我沒有接觸過美黃給我任何這樣的訊息那部長因為你應該任期應該還有三年啦你能不能保證在你的任期內不會我們的義務役的\n議期不會從一年變兩年我怎麼知道我的任期還要多 我是政務官沒有任期好 所以保證你的任內我們的兵役不會從 義務役不會從一年變兩年我們現在正在確實的檢討一年級義務役的訓練成效沒有做任何有關延長為兩年的義務役的一個規劃存在也沒有女性扶義務役的規劃的案子存在\n我給大家看一個數據這是國防研究院的兩篇報告都是2月底密集發的兩篇研究報告第一篇 志願士兵的徵選條件結論是什麼建立想實評估女性人力服役物役的政策開發人力的來源第二篇 結論是什麼女性服役物役是未來兵役制度改革的可行方案之一\n國防研究院是你國防部出席的你官方的智庫欸他為什麼要研究這個結論為什麼要女性要去服兵役國防院每個研究員都會發表他自己依據他的所認知的部分他的專業他做任何的一些報告案但這並不代表國防部的政策那你們前陣子還有聯合發清清楚楚寫嘛對不對\n你們也提出了一部分就是說要針對這個做研究啊不是嗎你信服一位啊沒有嗎我國防部沒有做過這樣的研究啊好啦部長現在最重要我剛給你看的都是數據聯合報的報導還有你們國家研究院國防研究院的這個報告我們做個結論部長部長我們做個結論我們時間主席已經站起來了我們做個結論所以你的任內你能不能保證\n兵役不會從一年變成兩年女性不會服兵役國防部現在沒有任何有關女性服藥服役務役以及要將役務役延長為兩年的任何規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃嘛那你的任內會不會推動變成是兩年我不知道我的任內有多長所以你不願意保證就對了我沒有什麼可以當四年這樣子的一個講話存在你的任內你不願意保證嘛現在就是要保證還是不保證\n報告委員 我剛剛已經一再重複了國防部現在沒有任何女性服務一無一跟一無一延長為兩年的規劃對 沒有規劃嘛 那你可不可以保證不會推動這個\n我們現在就沒有這樣子的任何的政策推動你意思是不會推動對不對不會推動你任內也不會出現這兩個我現在沒有做過要有做過要有這樣的推動的這樣的一個計畫規劃存在部長你這樣的答案是閃抖還是保證說不會推動我沒有任何的閃抖委員你這樣子一直在repeat一些這樣子謝謝張委員讓全民看看部長到底是說他在規避還是他不會推動還是會推動謝謝張委員的質詢那部長先請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.330 --> 00:26.690\n我們有請顧部長今年國防部的預算增加將近400億這是歷史上的一個新高事實上這個三減的幅度也是最近幾年的新低今天我們駐美代表余大雷\n\n00:27.765 --> 00:51.597\n有一個華爾街日報的一個專訪今天最新的消息,他特別在強調啊我們台灣最近這十年啊國防預算已經翻了一倍了已經翻了一倍了可是呢,我告訴你前陣子啊,出現一個非常奇怪是不是有人到美國去告洋狀而且還說了謊所以導致\n\n00:53.462 --> 00:58.230\n美國國防部的這個次長提名人柯博吉說台灣的國會大山的這個經費令人不安\n\n01:06.468 --> 01:27.837\n怎麼會出現這麼離譜的這麼離譜的謠言跟委員報告您這個螢幕上講是3.46應該不對吧應該是3.84億吧終究把這個算進來也是近年來的新低對不對最重要是剛剛講的沒有不是新低不是新低不是新低84億不是新低最近幾年的新低最重要沒有部長\n\n01:28.257 --> 01:49.573\n最重要他是創了歷史以來的新高嘛我剛剛特別跟你講我們駐美代表為什麼要你現在講的是指預算佔新高那三減數沒有創新低啊最近幾年的新低啦我們預算一直在穩健的成長但是呢我們今年算的是84億你沒有算新低啊你這個講話也不對你說只3.46億是不對啦\n\n01:53.175 --> 02:03.422\n對啦就是三減創最你說不是歷年新低可是最近幾年的新低啦這個是學你們卓院長講的卓院長沒有卓院長一直在講說什麼凍結是歷年新高我跟他講過去光是有八個年度比他就超過了結果他改口是最近幾年凍結的新低這個我們接受啦\n\n02:13.968 --> 02:27.677\n沒有啦部長現在不要爭議這個現在最重要是你增加你現在還有一些針對性的刪減跟那個凍結凍結還要經過大院專案報告還要能夠同意所以部長那個抱電話問你你已經坐過清管會主委你也坐過國安會的這個秘書長你印象中有凍結的預算沒有被後來被解凍的嗎\n\n02:34.830 --> 03:00.866\n以前凍結預算都在委員會就解凍啊沒有沒有在委員會解凍你嚴重被誤導了我去查了一次院會要求凍結以後要院會報告以後解凍了很多問題是後來都解決您舉一個例子那我就不得不說那你舉一個例子哪一個案子要在院會專案報告同意以後才可以解凍你告訴我你隨便去翻每一年都好幾個案子不是專案報告啦那個部長你完全弄錯了\n\n03:04.068 --> 03:11.171\n立法院的立法院叫你去院會提專案不見得是一定是有專案報告可能是提了一個聽我講完聽我講完有兩個層次一個是你提了一個報告來就解凍了對不對這個是目前你可能最希望的連報告都不要第二個是\n\n03:21.072 --> 03:33.823\n就是你提了報告來以後經過立法院的解凍像昨天我就很清楚跟交通委員會講交通委員會在上個會去年差不多這個時候它經過一次的會議它解凍了31個凍結案啊\n\n03:36.534 --> 03:40.538\n你已經當了經管會主委當了秘書長部長來我更重要我要問你跟委員報告您這邊凍結了899億去年才凍結2億都是委員會書面報告或專案報告沒有在院會做專案報告才可以解凍你的凍結數高達899億其中\n\n03:57.472 --> 04:22.423\n業務費的部分應該是佔了744億業務費是所有部位全部凍結的30%那會單獨叫你一個國安部長去那邊報告嗎當然是整體提出來以後整體就處理了嘛這很簡單你不要想太誤導最重要的部長你不是來張委員也不是院長我不曉得院長要如何主持這個到院會專案報告來跟你講從以前的往例啊這個解凍只要是你解決的問題為什麼會凍結\n\n04:24.944 --> 04:42.521\n就是因為我們每次問你們問題的時候你們要請答的時候不回答問題的時候當木頭人不回答對不對我們的調查權你們也不給我們所以是用預算權去凍結完之後叫你解決問題啊重點是你說解決問題就解決怎麼樣最重要的來我來幫王定宇打抱不平你講說那個預算被大砍我問你如果砍的是對的類銷專案買無人機對不對\n\n04:49.687 --> 05:08.622\n那個原因是因為美國他們自己本來報給我們多少116億對不對後來是他們自己改的啊改了55億那這個要不要刪減連王定宇都贊成啊對不對結果變成是柯建民出來講所以王定宇還罵他說你認知是不是有問題\n\n05:10.014 --> 05:34.473\n明明是美國自己的報價把他剪下來每一部分都很民主民高啊當然是要刪減啊各位委員報告我們在外交官方委員會這些的都經過大家朝野在外交官方委員會大家都同意現在主要的部分是到了院會之後啊你比如說我一直在講的國外的旅費跟訓練費用的支出\n\n05:34.793 --> 06:00.358\n他最重要的就是他寫一個不得流用你這個不得流用就完蛋了我們現在我已經坦白講到國外協訓你現在講的都是歷年來立法院成立以來每一年都是這樣審議算沒有很多規定沒有流用的沒有不得流用這四個字出現過嘛通山的項目裡面沒有這樣子嘛我不要說要你下台我說我拿出來不要講一個如果有十次不得流用你要不要跟全民道歉\n\n06:01.098 --> 06:17.215\n不要講一次喔我去舉十個例子出來你要不要跟人民道歉通山的項目過去這個是立法院長久審議算的怎麼會沒有流用這個字眼呢這是預算法裡面明定的啊每一年都這樣沒有在通山的項目裡面去講不得流用的\n\n06:18.086 --> 06:45.143\n有阿爸部長這樣好不好我提十個你跟前面道歉好不好我提十個你跟前面道歉好OK現在最重要的凍結是可以解凍的部長你的責任應該是盡快提出解凍案我們院會或者是委員會趕快通過趕快解決那問你一個比較重要人民股關係的問題可是那個院會要求我們要花費百分之三十以上才可以去申請解凍那這個又設下了一個門檻三十那現在已經三月底啦不就是差不多時間了嗎沒有啊\n\n06:48.045 --> 07:02.412\n議連的部長部長你做一下顧為政務官啊每一年禮拜都是這樣我們會遵照委員的指示儘速提出解凍案也希望院會儘速進行解凍對就是這樣對你來這邊是要解決問題的要倒退後來問一個民眾現在最關心的這幾天啊有出現兩個很重要的議題一個說我們的義務役啊要從一年延長為兩年\n\n07:16.803 --> 07:31.772\n第二個是女性可能要服兵役部長,這兩件事情有可能成真嗎?沒有沒有任何這樣的規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃?對,沒有當初這個,因為是四個月\n\n07:34.239 --> 07:50.999\n討論一段時間就變一年了嘛對不對這段時間美國有沒有關心希望我們自己防衛自己把定義延長到兩年我沒有接觸過美黃給我任何這樣的訊息那部長因為你應該任期應該還有三年啦你能不能保證在你的任期內不會我們的義務役的\n\n07:53.642 --> 08:06.034\n議期不會從一年變兩年我怎麼知道我的任期還要多我是政務官沒有任期好所以保證你的任內我們的兵役不會從義務役不會從一年變兩年我們現在正在確實的檢討一年級義務役的訓練成效沒有做任何有關延長為兩年的義務役的一個規劃存在也沒有女性扶義務役的規劃的案子存在\n\n08:20.319 --> 08:46.252\n我給大家看一個數據這是國防研究院的兩篇報告都是2月底密集發的兩篇研究報告第一篇志願士兵的徵選條件結論是什麼建立想實評估女性人力服役物役的政策開發人力的來源第二篇結論是什麼女性服役物役是未來兵役制度改革的可行方案之一\n\n08:48.088 --> 09:09.273\n國防研究院是你國防部出席的你官方的智庫欸他為什麼要研究這個結論為什麼要女性要去服兵役國防院每個研究員都會發表他自己依據他的所認知的部分他的專業他做任何的一些報告案但這並不代表國防部的政策那你們前陣子還有聯合發清清楚楚寫嘛對不對\n\n09:15.868 --> 09:36.660\n你們也提出了一部分就是說要針對這個做研究啊不是嗎你信服一位啊沒有嗎我國防部沒有做過這樣的研究啊好啦部長現在最重要我剛給你看的都是數據聯合報的報導還有你們國家研究院國防研究院的這個報告我們做個結論部長部長我們做個結論我們時間主席已經站起來了我們做個結論所以你的任內你能不能保證\n\n09:42.301 --> 10:08.545\n兵役不會從一年變成兩年女性不會服兵役國防部現在沒有任何有關女性服藥服役務役以及要將役務役延長為兩年的任何規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃嘛那你的任內會不會推動變成是兩年我不知道我的任內有多長所以你不願意保證就對了我沒有什麼可以當四年這樣子的一個講話存在你的任內你不願意保證嘛現在就是要保證還是不保證\n\n10:10.135 --> 10:12.698\n報告委員我剛剛已經一再重複了國防部現在沒有任何女性服務一無一跟一無一延長為兩年的規劃對沒有規劃嘛那你可不可以保證不會推動這個\n\n10:22.645 --> 10:48.497\n我們現在就沒有這樣子的任何的政策推動你意思是不會推動對不對不會推動你任內也不會出現這兩個我現在沒有做過要有做過要有這樣的推動的這樣的一個計畫規劃存在部長你這樣的答案是閃抖還是保證說不會推動我沒有任何的閃抖委員你這樣子一直在repeat一些這樣子謝謝張委員讓全民看看部長到底是說他在規避還是他不會推動還是會推動謝謝張委員的質詢那部長先請\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.33,"end":26.69,"text":"我們有請顧部長今年國防部的預算增加將近400億這是歷史上的一個新高事實上這個三減的幅度也是最近幾年的新低今天我們駐美代表余大雷"},{"start":27.765,"end":51.597,"text":"有一個華爾街日報的一個專訪今天最新的消息,他特別在強調啊我們台灣最近這十年啊國防預算已經翻了一倍了已經翻了一倍了可是呢,我告訴你前陣子啊,出現一個非常奇怪是不是有人到美國去告洋狀而且還說了謊所以導致"},{"start":53.462,"end":58.23,"text":"美國國防部的這個次長提名人柯博吉說台灣的國會大山的這個經費令人不安"},{"start":66.468,"end":87.837,"text":"怎麼會出現這麼離譜的這麼離譜的謠言跟委員報告您這個螢幕上講是3.46應該不對吧應該是3.84億吧終究把這個算進來也是近年來的新低對不對最重要是剛剛講的沒有不是新低不是新低不是新低84億不是新低最近幾年的新低最重要沒有部長"},{"start":88.257,"end":109.573,"text":"最重要他是創了歷史以來的新高嘛我剛剛特別跟你講我們駐美代表為什麼要你現在講的是指預算佔新高那三減數沒有創新低啊最近幾年的新低啦我們預算一直在穩健的成長但是呢我們今年算的是84億你沒有算新低啊你這個講話也不對你說只3.46億是不對啦"},{"start":113.175,"end":123.422,"text":"對啦 就是三減創最 你說不是歷年新低可是最近幾年的新低啦這個是學你們卓院長講的卓院長沒有卓院長一直在講說什麼凍結是歷年新高我跟他講過去光是有八個年度比他就超過了結果他改口是最近幾年凍結的新低這個我們接受啦"},{"start":133.968,"end":147.677,"text":"沒有啦 部長現在不要爭議這個 現在最重要是你增加你現在還有一些針對性的刪減跟那個凍結 凍結還要經過大院專案報告還要能夠同意所以部長 那個抱電話問你 你已經坐過清管會主委 你也坐過國安會的這個秘書長你印象中有凍結的預算沒有被 後來被解凍的嗎"},{"start":154.83,"end":180.866,"text":"以前凍結預算都在委員會就解凍啊沒有沒有在委員會解凍你嚴重被誤導了我去查了一次 院會要求凍結以後要院會報告以後解凍了很多問題是後來都解決您舉一個例子那我就不得不說那你舉一個例子哪一個案子要在院會專案報告同意以後才可以解凍你告訴我你隨便去翻每一年都好幾個案子不是專案報告啦那個部長你完全弄錯了"},{"start":184.068,"end":191.171,"text":"立法院的立法院叫你去院會提專案不見得是一定是有專案報告可能是提了一個聽我講完聽我講完有兩個層次一個是你提了一個報告來就解凍了對不對這個是目前你可能最希望的連報告都不要第二個是"},{"start":201.072,"end":213.823,"text":"就是你提了報告來以後 經過立法院的解凍像昨天我就很清楚跟交通委員會講交通委員會在上個會 去年差不多這個時候它經過一次的會議 它解凍了31個凍結案啊"},{"start":216.534,"end":220.538,"text":"你已經當了經管會主委當了秘書長部長來我更重要我要問你跟委員報告您這邊凍結了899億去年才凍結2億都是委員會書面報告或專案報告沒有在院會做專案報告才可以解凍你的凍結數高達899億其中"},{"start":237.472,"end":262.423,"text":"業務費的部分應該是佔了744億業務費是所有部位全部凍結的30%那會單獨叫你一個國安部長去那邊報告嗎當然是整體提出來以後整體就處理了嘛這很簡單你不要想太誤導最重要的部長你不是來張委員也不是院長我不曉得院長要如何主持這個到院會專案報告來跟你講從以前的往例啊這個解凍只要是你解決的問題為什麼會凍結"},{"start":264.944,"end":282.521,"text":"就是因為我們每次問你們問題的時候你們要請答的時候不回答問題的時候當木頭人不回答對不對我們的調查權你們也不給我們所以是用預算權去凍結完之後叫你解決問題啊重點是你說解決問題就解決怎麼樣最重要的來我來幫王定宇打抱不平你講說那個預算被大砍我問你如果砍的是對的類銷專案買無人機對不對"},{"start":289.687,"end":308.622,"text":"那個原因是因為美國他們自己本來報給我們多少116億對不對後來是他們自己改的啊改了55億那這個要不要刪減連王定宇都贊成啊對不對結果變成是柯建民出來講所以王定宇還罵他說你認知是不是有問題"},{"start":310.014,"end":334.473,"text":"明明是美國自己的報價把他剪下來每一部分都很民主民高啊 當然是要刪減啊各位委員報告我們在外交官方委員會這些的都經過大家朝野在外交官方委員會大家都同意現在主要的部分是到了院會之後啊你比如說我一直在講的國外的旅費跟訓練費用的支出"},{"start":334.793,"end":360.358,"text":"他最重要的就是他寫一個不得流用你這個不得流用就完蛋了我們現在我已經坦白講到國外協訓你現在講的都是歷年來立法院成立以來每一年都是這樣審議算沒有很多規定沒有流用的沒有不得流用這四個字出現過嘛通山的項目裡面沒有這樣子嘛我不要說要你下台我說我拿出來不要講一個如果有十次不得流用你要不要跟全民道歉"},{"start":361.098,"end":377.215,"text":"不要講一次喔我去舉十個例子出來你要不要跟人民道歉通山的項目過去這個是立法院長久審議算的怎麼會沒有流用這個字眼呢這是預算法裡面明定的啊每一年都這樣沒有在通山的項目裡面去講不得流用的"},{"start":378.086,"end":405.143,"text":"有 阿爸 部長這樣好不好 我提十個你跟前面道歉 好不好我提十個 你跟前面道歉好 OK 現在最重要的 凍結是可以解凍的部長你的責任應該是盡快提出解凍案我們院會或者是委員會趕快通過 趕快解決那問你一個比較重要 人民股關係的問題可是那個院會要求我們要花費百分之三十以上才可以去申請解凍那這個又設下了一個門檻三十 那現在已經三月底啦不就是差不多時間了嗎沒有啊"},{"start":408.045,"end":422.412,"text":"議連的 部長 部長 你做一下顧為政務官啊 每一年禮拜都是這樣我們會遵照委員的指示 儘速提出解凍案 也希望院會儘速進行解凍對 就是這樣 對 你來這邊是要解決問題的 要倒退後來 問一個民眾現在最關心的 這幾天啊 有出現兩個很重要的議題一個說我們的義務役啊 要從一年延長為兩年"},{"start":436.803,"end":451.772,"text":"第二個是女性可能要服兵役部長,這兩件事情有可能成真嗎?沒有沒有任何這樣的規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃?對,沒有當初這個,因為是四個月"},{"start":454.239,"end":470.999,"text":"討論一段時間就變一年了嘛對不對這段時間美國有沒有關心希望我們自己防衛自己把定義延長到兩年我沒有接觸過美黃給我任何這樣的訊息那部長因為你應該任期應該還有三年啦你能不能保證在你的任期內不會我們的義務役的"},{"start":473.642,"end":486.034,"text":"議期不會從一年變兩年我怎麼知道我的任期還要多 我是政務官沒有任期好 所以保證你的任內我們的兵役不會從 義務役不會從一年變兩年我們現在正在確實的檢討一年級義務役的訓練成效沒有做任何有關延長為兩年的義務役的一個規劃存在也沒有女性扶義務役的規劃的案子存在"},{"start":500.319,"end":526.252,"text":"我給大家看一個數據這是國防研究院的兩篇報告都是2月底密集發的兩篇研究報告第一篇 志願士兵的徵選條件結論是什麼建立想實評估女性人力服役物役的政策開發人力的來源第二篇 結論是什麼女性服役物役是未來兵役制度改革的可行方案之一"},{"start":528.088,"end":549.273,"text":"國防研究院是你國防部出席的你官方的智庫欸他為什麼要研究這個結論為什麼要女性要去服兵役國防院每個研究員都會發表他自己依據他的所認知的部分他的專業他做任何的一些報告案但這並不代表國防部的政策那你們前陣子還有聯合發清清楚楚寫嘛對不對"},{"start":555.868,"end":576.66,"text":"你們也提出了一部分就是說要針對這個做研究啊不是嗎你信服一位啊沒有嗎我國防部沒有做過這樣的研究啊好啦部長現在最重要我剛給你看的都是數據聯合報的報導還有你們國家研究院國防研究院的這個報告我們做個結論部長部長我們做個結論我們時間主席已經站起來了我們做個結論所以你的任內你能不能保證"},{"start":582.301,"end":608.545,"text":"兵役不會從一年變成兩年女性不會服兵役國防部現在沒有任何有關女性服藥服役務役以及要將役務役延長為兩年的任何規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃嘛那你的任內會不會推動變成是兩年我不知道我的任內有多長所以你不願意保證就對了我沒有什麼可以當四年這樣子的一個講話存在你的任內你不願意保證嘛現在就是要保證還是不保證"},{"start":610.135,"end":612.698,"text":"報告委員 我剛剛已經一再重複了國防部現在沒有任何女性服務一無一跟一無一延長為兩年的規劃對 沒有規劃嘛 那你可不可以保證不會推動這個"},{"start":622.645,"end":648.497,"text":"我們現在就沒有這樣子的任何的政策推動你意思是不會推動對不對不會推動你任內也不會出現這兩個我現在沒有做過要有做過要有這樣的推動的這樣的一個計畫規劃存在部長你這樣的答案是閃抖還是保證說不會推動我沒有任何的閃抖委員你這樣子一直在repeat一些這樣子謝謝張委員讓全民看看部長到底是說他在規避還是他不會推動還是會推動謝謝張委員的質詢那部長先請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":558,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時32分）主席，請部長。"],["主席：我們有請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：張委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，今年國防部的預算增加將近四百億嘛！這是歷史上的一個新高，事實上這個刪減的幅度也是最近幾年的新低。今天我們駐美代表余大㵢有一個華爾街日報的專訪，今天最新的消息，他特別強調，臺灣最近這十年國防預算已經翻了一倍。可是部長，前陣子非常奇怪，是不是有人到美國去告洋狀，而且還說了謊，所以導致美國國防部的次長提名人柯伯吉說，臺灣國會大刪的經費令人不安。怎麼會出現這麼離譜的謠言？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，螢幕上你講的是刪減46億，應該不對吧？應該是刪減84億吧！"],["張委員啓楷：我們就把這個算進來也是近年來的新低，對不對？最重要是剛剛講的……"],["顧部長立雄：沒有，不是新低，84億不是新低。"],["張委員啓楷：最近幾年的新低。沒有，部長，最重要的它是創了歷史以來的新高嘛！我剛剛特別跟你講，我們駐美代表為什麼要……"],["顧部長立雄：你現在講的是指預算創新高，刪減數沒有創新低。"],["張委員啓楷：最近幾年的新低。"],["顧部長立雄：我們預算一直在穩健成長。"],["張委員啓楷：對。"],["顧部長立雄：但是我們今年刪了是84億，沒有算新低，你這個講法也不對，你說只刪減46億是不對啦！"],["張委員啓楷：對啦！就是刪減創最……你說不是歷年新低，可是是最近幾年的新低，這個是學……"],["顧部長立雄：也不是歷年……"],["張委員啓楷：這個是學你們卓院長講的……"],["顧部長立雄：沒有這幾年的新低……"],["張委員啓楷：卓院長一直在講什麼凍結是歷年新高，我跟他講過去光是有8個年度比起它就超過了，結果他才改口。"],["顧部長立雄：你看一下過去這幾年的刪減數。"],["張委員啓楷：最近幾年凍結的新低，這個我們接受啦！沒有，部長，現在不要爭議，最重要的你增加是歷年……"],["顧部長立雄：你現在還有一些針對性的刪減和凍結，凍結要經過大院專案報告，還要能夠同意。"],["張委員啓楷：部長我問你，你已經當過金管會主委，也當過國安會秘書長，你印象中有凍結的預算後來沒有被解凍的嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：以前凍結預算都在委員會就解凍。"],["張委員啓楷：沒有，你要回去查。"],["顧部長立雄：在委員會解凍。"],["張委員啓楷：沒有，你嚴重被誤導了。我去查了資料，院會要求凍結以後，要到院會報告以後解凍的很多，問題是後來都解決了。"],["顧部長立雄：那我就不得不說，你舉一個例子，哪一個案子要在院會專案報告同意以後才可以解凍？你告訴我。"],["張委員啓楷：你隨便去翻，每一年都有好幾個案子，不是專案報告，部長完全弄錯了，立法院叫你去院會提專案，不見得是一定是專案報告，可是提那個報……"],["顧部長立雄：這一次……"],["張委員啓楷：聽我講完，有兩個層次，第一個是你提了一個報告來就解凍了，對不對？這個是目前你可能最希望的，連報告都不要；第二個就是你提了報告來以後，經過立法院的解凍。像昨天我就很清楚跟交通委員會講，交通委員會在去年差不多這個時候，經過一次的會議，他們解凍了31個凍結案。你已經當了金管會主委、當了秘書長……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，來，更重要的我要問你……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，這邊凍結了899億，去年才凍結2億，都是在委員會提書面報告或專案報告，沒有在院會做專案報告才可以解凍。你的凍結數高達899億，其中業務費的部分應該是占了744億，要到……"],["張委員啓楷：院會是……所有部會全部凍結了30%，會單獨叫你一個國防部長去那邊報告嗎？當然是整體提出來以後，整體就處理了嘛！這很簡單，你不要想太複雜。最重要的，部長，你不是來……"],["顧部長立雄：張委員也不是院長，我不曉得院長要如何主持這個到院會專案報告啊！"],["張委員啓楷：我跟你講，往例這個解凍，只要是你解決了問題……為什麼要凍結？就是因為我每次問你們問題的時候，你們在詢答的時候，不回答問題、當木頭人不回答，對不對？我們的調查權你們也不給我們，所以是用預算權去凍結完之後叫你解決問題，重點是你如果解決問題了就解了，有沒有？最重要的，我幫王定宇打抱不平，你講那個預算被大砍，我問你，如果砍的是對的，獵鴞專案買無人機，對不對？那個原因是因為美國自己本來報給我們多少？116億，對不對？後來也是他們自己改的啊！改了55億，這個要不要刪減？連王定宇都贊成，對不對？結果變成是柯建銘出來講，所以王定宇在罵他：你認知是不是有問題？明明是美國自己的報價把它減下來，每一分錢都民脂民膏，當然要刪減！"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我們在外交及國防委員會這些都經過朝野大家……這個在外交及國防委員會大家都同意，現在主要的部分是到了院會之後，比如我一直在講的，國外旅費和訓練費用的支出，最重要就是他還寫「不得流用」，這就完蛋了！我已經坦白講，我們現在到國外協訓的這個費用……"],["張委員啓楷：你現在講的都是歷年來、立法院成立以來每一年都是這樣審議算，沒有……"],["顧部長立雄：沒有「不得流用」……"],["張委員啓楷：很多規定沒有流用的……"],["顧部長立雄：沒有「不得流用」這4個字出現過，通刪的項目裡面沒有這樣子的。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，這樣好不好？我不要說要你下臺，我如果拿出來，不要講一個，如果有10次不得流用，你要不要跟全民道歉？不要講一次喔！我去舉10個例子出來，你要不要跟人民道歉？"],["顧部長立雄：通刪的項目，過去……"],["張委員啓楷：這個是立法院長久審預算的……怎麼會沒有「流用」這個字眼？這是預算法裡面明定的，每一年都這樣。部長，我問你……"],["顧部長立雄：沒有在通刪的項目裡面去講不得流用的。"],["張委員啓楷：有，不然部長，這樣好不好？我提10個，你跟全民道歉，好不好？我提10個，你跟全民道歉，OK。現在最重要的，凍結是可以解凍的，部長的責任應該是儘快提出解凍案，我們院會或者是委員會趕快通過、趕快解決。問你一個比較重要、人民關心的……"],["顧部長立雄：可是院會……"],["張委員啓楷：沒有，我問你一下，你趕快提……"],["顧部長立雄：要求我們要花費30%以上才可以去申請解凍，這又設下了一個門檻。"],["張委員啓楷：30%，現在已經3月底了，不就是差不多時間了嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有啊！那你……"],["張委員啓楷：部長做那麼久的政務官，每一年立法院都是這樣，你們不要污名化總預算，趕快……"],["顧部長立雄：我們會遵照委員的指示，儘速提出解凍案，也希望院會儘速進行解凍。"],["張委員啓楷：對，就是這樣。你來這邊是要解決問題的，不要和委員鬥嘴。本席問一個現在民眾最關心的問題，這幾天出現兩個很重要的議題，一個是義務役要從1年延長為2年，第二個是女性可能要服兵役。部長，這兩件事情有可能成真嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有。沒有任何這樣的規劃存在。"],["張委員啓楷：沒有這樣的規劃？"],["顧部長立雄：對，沒有。"],["張委員啓楷：當初的義務役是4個月，討論後變成1年，對不對？這段時間美國有沒有關心過，希望我們能自己防衛自己，把兵役延長到2年？"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有接觸過美方給我任何這樣的訊息。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你的任期應該還有3年，你能不能保證在你的任期內，義務役的役期不會從1年變成2年？"],["顧部長立雄：我怎麼知道我的任期還有多久？我是政務官，沒有一定的任期。"],["張委員啓楷：所以可以保證在你的任內，我們的義務役不會從1年變2年？可以對青年承諾嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我們現在正在檢討1年期義務役的訓練成效，並沒有做任何有關將義務役延長為2年的規劃，也沒有女性服義務役的規劃案。"],["張委員啓楷：本席給大家看一個數據，這是國防研究院的兩篇研究報告，在2月底密集發佈的，第一篇，志願士兵甄選條件，結論是什麼？建議翔實評估女性人力服義務役政策，開發人力來源。第二篇，結論是什麼？女性服義務役是未來兵役制度改革的可行政策之一。國防研究院是國防部出資的，是官方的智庫，他們為什麼要研究這個議題？結論為什麼是女性要去服兵役？"],["顧部長立雄：國防院每個研究員都會發表自己依據認知、專業所做出的報告案，但這並不代表國防部的政策。"],["張委員啓楷：前陣子聯合報也清清楚楚的寫了一篇報導，對不對？你們也有提出一部分，要針對女性服義務役研究，沒有嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：國防部沒有做過這樣的研究。"],["張委員啓楷：好啦！部長，現在最重要的，本席剛才給你看的都是數據，是聯合報的報導，還有你們國防研究院的報告……"],["顧部長立雄：委員常常拿報導來詢問。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，我們做個結論，主席已經站起來了。你的任內能不能保證兵役不會從1年變成2年，女性不會服兵役？"],["顧部長立雄：國防部現在沒有任何有關女性要服義務役，以及要將義務役延長為2年的規劃。"],["張委員啓楷：沒有這方面的規劃嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：是的。"],["張委員啓楷：你的任內會不會推動義務役延長為2年？"],["顧部長立雄：我不知道我的任期有多長。"],["張委員啓楷：所以你不願意保證？"],["顧部長立雄：並沒有我可以擔任4年部長這樣的說法。"],["張委員啓楷：不是4年，是你的任內。你不願意保證嘛！現在就是你要不要保證，因為全民都在等著看，人民關心這個問題，而且現在兩岸關係這麼緊張。"],["顧部長立雄：我剛剛已經一再重複，國防部現在沒有任何女性服義務役和義務役延長為2年的規劃。"],["張委員啓楷：對，沒有規劃嘛！你願不願意保證不會推動這個議題？"],["顧部長立雄：我們現在就沒有這樣的政策規劃嘛！"],["張委員啓楷：所以你的意思是不會推動嘛！對不對？你任內不會出現這兩個議題。"],["顧部長立雄：我現在沒有做過，要做也要有這樣推動的計畫規劃存在啊！"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你這樣回答是在閃躲嗎？還是保證不會推動？"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有閃躲。委員，你一直在repeat。"],["主席：謝謝張委員。"],["張委員啓楷：讓全民看看部長到底是在規避回答，還是他不會推動，或是會推動，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張委員的質詢，部長先請回。","請沈伯洋委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":316,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-4","speakers":["沈伯洋","羅美玲","馬文君","王定宇","陳冠廷","黃仁","陳永康","林楚茵","翁曉玲","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","張啓楷","徐巧芯","李坤城","邱志偉","蔡易餘","林憶君","蘇清泉","王鴻薇"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-03-19"],"gazette_id":"1142801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142801_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況暨「四年期國防總檢討」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142801_00016"}}}