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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:03,012\n謝謝主席那我們有請顧部長是學恩好首先呢我們可以看一下這張手版在這裡呢這邊寫到了這個本院民進黨黨團針對這個立法院第十一屆第三會期第四次的報告事項裡面包含我拿反了包含\n\n2\n00:00:27,472 --> 00:00:56,633\n第39案國民黨擬具軍人保險條例第10條跟第10條16條的修正案然後還有呢國軍廚藝官兵輔導條例還有軍人待遇條例第5條修正案跟軍人待遇條例第6條修正草案都要提出復議那我想要問一下顧部長的態度那對於立法院在對於這些我們的軍人那提出法案修正增加他們權利那請問顧部長呢您是同意還是反對\n\n3\n00:00:57,856 --> 00:01:13,394\n我們就這個軍人的待遇條例把它入法這件事情我們沒有贊成那軍人保險條例的部分好像修法的方向是刪除他的應該要的致富額是不是\n\n4\n00:01:14,074 --> 00:01:33,632\n一個是從我們就是由全額補助因為他們本來是35%是由自己自付然後我們希望可以全額補助這是一個另外一個就是過去我們就是綁四年之後第五年才能拿到一個保險的基礎也就是說如果你一二三四年你中間退掉的話那你繳的這本來的35%也會不見\n\n5\n00:01:36,474 --> 00:01:51,634\n那所以說對於這個來講我們很多軍人他來當軍人之後他可能兩年發現他並不是合這個工作想要離職的時候那他就會卡關大概有這兩個部分我們先請志願書說明一下好啊\n\n6\n00:01:53,226 --> 00:02:16,938\n委員好我是資源司司長跟委員報告一下就是軍人保險條例裡面我們雖然規定五年以後才可以勤領但是五年之內所繳的如果他提前離職我們是有退費的規定那但是這其實還是某程度去綁住了嘛因為五年之後呢比方說第六年第七年第八年來講的話其實都是能夠拿到比較好的待遇喔這是蠻多軍人有跟我們反映的一個事情\n\n7\n00:02:17,418 --> 00:02:45,536\n那接下来我们是希望他们长留久用啦对于说他马上就可以去理这件事情我们并不鼓励但现在状况有点不一样因为呢你看一下我们去年在国军里面自强的状况还有他们的压力甚大那有一些人他可能做了这个军人福收他发现可能在第二年第三年的时候就不太适任那我们还要让他们继续锁到第五年吗这是我的一个问题喔\n\n8\n00:02:45,876 --> 00:03:14,335\n那接下來我要問的是呢其實從去年我們這個新任的立法委員上任之後軍中就已經在傳說要加薪的這件事情可是一年多以來國防部到目前來說始終沒有把這個到底要加多少那講出來那或許呢部長已經有講了比如說某一些單位的加急可是到底要加多少錢到底要怎麼樣現在的基層軍人是人心惶惶因為很多人就想\n\n9\n00:03:14,775 --> 00:03:24,906\n他如果沒有的話我要退伍了那所以說什麼時候你們說已經送到行政院去審查但什麼時候報告才會出來才能讓我們知道行政院的方案\n\n10\n00:03:26,168 --> 00:03:45,706\n就我理解我跟院長有討論他就說答案就說這個應該是已經他會盡快的把它核定下來盡快是多快呢因為大家一定要盡快盡快你們有時候很快那一個月那如果你說三個月或五個月或七個月都盡快我要告訴部長的是說你們去年就已經在講說要加薪的這件事情\n\n11\n00:03:50,771 --> 00:04:03,679\n那已經一年了你還要告訴我盡快的話那你應該要告訴我比較具體的時間點因為很多國軍弟兄都在等這件事應該是這幾個禮拜就會合定這幾個禮拜就會合定了這幾個禮拜合定之後那如果說這個金額上面跟這個我們國軍想像的不一樣的話那我想我們還是會繼續提出這個相關的修法\n\n12\n00:04:15,926 --> 00:04:29,546\n跟委員報告了我們現在著重的就是說基層官兵的部分大家都著重在所以我們這個戰鬥部隊的加級因為都是連級以下的那我請問一下戰鬥部隊的加級會翻倍嗎\n\n13\n00:04:30,806 --> 00:04:50,135\n戰鬥部隊家裡我們有一定的調整那我想因為所以會不會翻倍因為這個我還蠻建議的委員要體諒一下我想在行政合定之前你不方便你不方便說好那沒有關係我們來第二個題目我知道我知道我知道你的困難我也不打算要逼迫你\n\n14\n00:04:50,615 --> 00:05:09,945\n我們來問下一個問題就是呢當時我們在海昆號這個測試的時候博港測試HAT114年的3月19日也就是這個現在那呢在不到兩週的時間4月份就要到了去年11月月底的時候我們在委員會韓居參謀長告訴我們預計4月1號開始做海上測試那請問4月1號要做海上測試了嗎\n\n15\n00:05:17,148 --> 00:05:24,414\n報委員是這樣時間點是應該在去年的11月25在委員會期間那我們當初講法從4月1號開始會進入SAT這個階段對那有嗎那這個階段是到9月30號不是嘛4月1號開始做海上測試這是當時你們給我們的承諾我今天要問的是兩個禮拜以後就是4月1號了我們會不會如期的在4月1號開始做海上測試\n\n16\n00:05:44,429 --> 00:06:02,474\n跟委員報告我這邊國防部的立場還是以安全為重所以我每個禮拜聽取他們的報告現在相關HAT的缺改的部分他們還在進行當中那我要確保這些缺改的部分我們希望是在4月那不一定要搶在4月1號\n\n17\n00:06:04,754 --> 00:06:30,525\n因為主要是當時我們問的時候你們就講就是4月1號我有一直在跟他們確認說有沒有承諾說4月1號他們現在就說但是我還是一句話要給我一個安全的確保當然我們都希望能夠安全那我想請問目前博港測試HAT進度到百分之幾了目前進度我今天兩個問號嘛進度到百分之幾我們缺失目前有幾項\n\n18\n00:06:32,543 --> 00:06:53,616\n我想這個相關的實際的這個內容的這個部分因為每次報告都是列入機敏的事項我不認為應該在這個地方可以公開的來說明好沒有問題但那我想要請問的是你們要把這個進度完成到百分之百以及缺失要玩到百分之百那你們預計需要多少的時間\n\n19\n00:06:55,017 --> 00:07:06,231\n我們還是規劃在四月份按照我現在的聽取他們的報告還是規劃在四月份會進入海上測試所以四月三十號以前海上測試會開始我可以這麼說嗎我現在所要求他們的應該是這樣子\n\n20\n00:07:11,918 --> 00:07:30,381\n我們到時候再來看再來我們可以看4月到9月海策如果說假設你們後續有在變更的話我想應該要跟人民再說明一下最後有一個題目是跟我們官兵休假權益有關的就是我們可以看一下請假的部分\n\n21\n00:07:31,822 --> 00:07:43,606\n工訓售價的部分呢你可以看到公務人員的有寫的很明確的法令就是公務人員如果呢他是去進修的話呢那他就是給予工價非常清楚好然後呢如果是這個勞動\n\n22\n00:07:48,527 --> 00:08:00,040\n如果是這個勞動相關的話呢那其實只要雇主呢跟這個員工他們有了解之後呢就是也可以給予相關的工資就是呢這是在勞動請假規則的第八條那但是呢我們會看到國軍這個部分我們看國軍\n\n23\n00:08:07,729 --> 00:08:26,729\n國軍的軍事官請假規則裡面的第三條第一款第一項裡面寫到軍官士官不論開缺與否因受訓疾病休養或住院期間於次年度的未落假何幾時依第一款所定日數比例折算扣除之不令補休\n\n24\n00:08:27,330 --> 00:08:49,164\n那舉例來說如果我現在呢有三個月時間在受訓的話我明年的未落假就需要扣掉四分之一所以部長您過去是職業律師我們可以看到勞工也好公務人員也好他們都有相關的這個規定那我想雖然軍人是一個特殊的行業可是我們也不宜讓大家太過於操勞因為為什麼像我們過去像上個會期我們增加了12倍的這個薪資輔導嘛\n\n25\n00:08:53,887 --> 00:09:22,184\n還有過去半一年一年來說自槍的人的數量非常多因為他們壓力很大所以我想要問的是說這個我們勞工身份跟公務人員的身份他都是去在做相關的受訓的時候甚至疾病兩者住院的時候那他是不是還要按照這個目前的請假規則裡面去折抵扣除他的未老假你覺得這樣是合理嗎\n\n26\n00:09:23,704 --> 00:09:33,165\n委員這個部分我現在下去以後了解一下,或者是要先說明一下\n\n27\n00:09:34,169 --> 00:09:55,899\n委員好我跟委員說明一下就是說我們現在所有未到假的相關的規定都是看你服役多少年之後你有多少天的未到假那每年我們都會讓這些未到假的請休假讓他請完因為這個要領不休假獎金或者是相關他的休假權益我們都會鼓勵所有官兵都能夠把他休完\n\n28\n00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:24,415\n不是嘛未落假等於說是我們一般人講的這個特休假嘛那只有國軍在扣假公務人員或勞工都沒有在扣假你懂我意思嗎所以你希望他請完但我們講的根本就不是你剛回答的這個問題啊我們講的是上面寫得很清楚嘛如果受訓的期間的話他要比例薪資扣除之然後不吝補休嘛這一條對於我們的官兵來說其實我覺得非常不公平啊\n\n29\n00:10:24,895 --> 00:10:43,547\n那公教人員他們都可以勞工都可以就我們軍人不行所以我希望在照顧軍人的同時是不是在這個項目上面我們可以去修正讓他們說在受訓之後你不要不是說要提供他更多的假期喔而是按比例你不要去扣除他的未落假\n\n30\n00:10:45,119 --> 00:10:53,906\n現在目前的規定是這個樣子那後續我們會按照委員的意見來參考看怎麼來做一個修訂我們今天還沒有提臨時提案我們下一次會做臨時提案希望你們可以回去先想一想因為公務人員跟勞工都沒有這樣子的情況\n\n31\n00:11:04,173 --> 00:11:19,340\n那只有我們辛苦的軍人因為受訓要被扣未落假等於是扣他的特休我覺得這是非常不合理的那所以我們幫所有的基層軍人請命希望國防部能夠同意好嗎好我回去了解一下這些相關的規定好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t3012\t謝謝主席 那我們有請顧部長是 學恩好首先呢 我們可以看一下這張手版在這裡呢這邊寫到了這個本院民進黨黨團針對這個立法院第十一屆第三會期第四次的報告事項裡面包含我拿反了 包含\n27472\t56633\t第39案國民黨擬具軍人保險條例第10條跟第10條16條的修正案然後還有呢國軍廚藝官兵輔導條例還有軍人待遇條例第5條修正案跟軍人待遇條例第6條修正草案都要提出復議那我想要問一下顧部長的態度那對於立法院在對於這些我們的軍人那提出法案修正增加他們權利那請問顧部長呢您是同意還是反對\n57856\t73394\t我們就這個軍人的待遇條例把它入法這件事情我們沒有贊成那軍人保險條例的部分好像修法的方向是刪除他的應該要的致富額是不是\n74074\t93632\t一個是從我們就是由全額補助因為他們本來是35%是由自己自付然後我們希望可以全額補助這是一個另外一個就是過去我們就是綁四年之後第五年才能拿到一個保險的基礎也就是說如果你一二三四年你中間退掉的話那你繳的這本來的35%也會不見\n96474\t111634\t那所以說對於這個來講我們很多軍人他來當軍人之後他可能兩年發現他並不是合這個工作想要離職的時候那他就會卡關大概有這兩個部分我們先請志願書說明一下好啊\n113226\t136938\t委員好我是資源司司長跟委員報告一下就是軍人保險條例裡面我們雖然規定五年以後才可以勤領但是五年之內所繳的如果他提前離職我們是有退費的規定那但是這其實還是某程度去綁住了嘛因為五年之後呢比方說第六年第七年第八年來講的話其實都是能夠拿到比較好的待遇喔這是蠻多軍人有跟我們反映的一個事情\n137418\t165536\t那接下来我们是希望他们长留久用啦对于说他马上就可以去理这件事情我们并不鼓励但现在状况有点不一样因为呢你看一下我们去年在国军里面自强的状况还有他们的压力甚大那有一些人他可能做了这个军人福收他发现可能在第二年第三年的时候就不太适任那我们还要让他们继续锁到第五年吗这是我的一个问题喔\n165876\t194335\t那接下來我要問的是呢其實從去年我們這個新任的立法委員上任之後軍中就已經在傳說要加薪的這件事情可是一年多以來國防部到目前來說始終沒有把這個到底要加多少那講出來那或許呢部長已經有講了比如說某一些單位的加急可是到底要加多少錢到底要怎麼樣現在的基層軍人是人心惶惶因為很多人就想\n194775\t204906\t他如果沒有的話我要退伍了那所以說什麼時候你們說已經送到行政院去審查但什麼時候報告才會出來才能讓我們知道行政院的方案\n206168\t225706\t就我理解我跟院長有討論他就說答案就說這個應該是已經他會盡快的把它核定下來盡快是多快呢因為大家一定要盡快盡快你們有時候很快那一個月那如果你說三個月或五個月或七個月都盡快我要告訴部長的是說你們去年就已經在講說要加薪的這件事情\n230771\t243679\t那已經一年了你還要告訴我盡快的話那你應該要告訴我比較具體的時間點因為很多國軍弟兄都在等這件事應該是這幾個禮拜就會合定這幾個禮拜就會合定了這幾個禮拜合定之後那如果說這個金額上面跟這個我們國軍想像的不一樣的話那我想我們還是會繼續提出這個相關的修法\n255926\t269546\t跟委員報告了我們現在著重的就是說基層官兵的部分大家都著重在所以我們這個戰鬥部隊的加級因為都是連級以下的那我請問一下戰鬥部隊的加級會翻倍嗎\n270806\t290135\t戰鬥部隊家裡我們有一定的調整那我想因為所以會不會翻倍因為這個我還蠻建議的委員要體諒一下我想在行政合定之前你不方便你不方便說好那沒有關係我們來第二個題目我知道我知道我知道你的困難我也不打算要逼迫你\n290615\t309945\t我們來問下一個問題就是呢當時我們在海昆號這個測試的時候博港測試HAT114年的3月19日也就是這個現在那呢在不到兩週的時間4月份就要到了去年11月月底的時候我們在委員會韓居參謀長告訴我們預計4月1號開始做海上測試那請問4月1號要做海上測試了嗎\n317148\t324414\t報委員是這樣時間點是應該在去年的11月25在委員會期間那我們當初講法從4月1號開始會進入SAT這個階段對那有嗎那這個階段是到9月30號不是嘛4月1號開始做海上測試這是當時你們給我們的承諾我今天要問的是兩個禮拜以後就是4月1號了我們會不會如期的在4月1號開始做海上測試\n344429\t362474\t跟委員報告我這邊國防部的立場還是以安全為重所以我每個禮拜聽取他們的報告現在相關HAT的缺改的部分他們還在進行當中那我要確保這些缺改的部分我們希望是在4月那不一定要搶在4月1號\n364754\t390525\t因為主要是當時我們問的時候你們就講就是4月1號我有一直在跟他們確認說有沒有承諾說4月1號他們現在就說但是我還是一句話要給我一個安全的確保當然我們都希望能夠安全那我想請問目前博港測試HAT進度到百分之幾了目前進度我今天兩個問號嘛進度到百分之幾我們缺失目前有幾項\n392543\t413616\t我想這個相關的實際的這個內容的這個部分因為每次報告都是列入機敏的事項我不認為應該在這個地方可以公開的來說明好沒有問題但那我想要請問的是你們要把這個進度完成到百分之百以及缺失要玩到百分之百那你們預計需要多少的時間\n415017\t426231\t我們還是規劃在四月份按照我現在的聽取他們的報告還是規劃在四月份會進入海上測試所以四月三十號以前海上測試會開始我可以這麼說嗎我現在所要求他們的應該是這樣子\n431918\t450381\t我們到時候再來看再來我們可以看4月到9月海策如果說假設你們後續有在變更的話我想應該要跟人民再說明一下最後有一個題目是跟我們官兵休假權益有關的就是我們可以看一下請假的部分\n451822\t463606\t工訓售價的部分呢你可以看到公務人員的有寫的很明確的法令就是公務人員如果呢他是去進修的話呢那他就是給予工價非常清楚好然後呢如果是這個勞動\n468527\t480040\t如果是這個勞動相關的話呢那其實只要雇主呢跟這個員工他們有了解之後呢就是也可以給予相關的工資就是呢這是在勞動請假規則的第八條那但是呢我們會看到國軍這個部分我們看國軍\n487729\t506729\t國軍的軍事官請假規則裡面的第三條第一款第一項裡面寫到軍官士官不論開缺與否因受訓疾病休養或住院期間於次年度的未落假何幾時依第一款所定日數比例折算扣除之不令補休\n507330\t529164\t那舉例來說如果我現在呢有三個月時間在受訓的話我明年的未落假就需要扣掉四分之一所以部長您過去是職業律師我們可以看到勞工也好公務人員也好他們都有相關的這個規定那我想雖然軍人是一個特殊的行業可是我們也不宜讓大家太過於操勞因為為什麼像我們過去像上個會期我們增加了12倍的這個薪資輔導嘛\n533887\t562184\t還有過去半一年一年來說自槍的人的數量非常多因為他們壓力很大所以我想要問的是說這個我們勞工身份跟公務人員的身份他都是去在做相關的受訓的時候甚至疾病兩者住院的時候那他是不是還要按照這個目前的請假規則裡面去折抵扣除他的未老假你覺得這樣是合理嗎\n563704\t573165\t委員這個部分我現在下去以後了解一下,或者是要先說明一下\n574169\t595899\t委員好 我跟委員說明一下就是說我們現在所有未到假的相關的規定都是看你服役多少年之後你有多少天的未到假那每年我們都會讓這些未到假的請休假讓他請完 因為這個要領不休假獎金或者是相關他的休假權益我們都會鼓勵所有官兵都能夠把他休完\n596559\t624415\t不是嘛未落假等於說是我們一般人講的這個特休假嘛那只有國軍在扣假公務人員或勞工都沒有在扣假你懂我意思嗎所以你希望他請完但我們講的根本就不是你剛回答的這個問題啊我們講的是上面寫得很清楚嘛如果受訓的期間的話他要比例薪資扣除之然後不吝補休嘛這一條對於我們的官兵來說其實我覺得非常不公平啊\n624895\t643547\t那公教人員他們都可以勞工都可以就我們軍人不行所以我希望在照顧軍人的同時是不是在這個項目上面我們可以去修正讓他們說在受訓之後你不要不是說要提供他更多的假期喔而是按比例你不要去扣除他的未落假\n645119\t653906\t現在目前的規定是這個樣子那後續我們會按照委員的意見來參考看怎麼來做一個修訂我們今天還沒有提臨時提案我們下一次會做臨時提案希望你們可以回去先想一想因為公務人員跟勞工都沒有這樣子的情況\n664173\t679340\t那只有我們辛苦的軍人因為受訓要被扣未落假等於是扣他的特休我覺得這是非常不合理的那所以我們幫所有的基層軍人請命希望國防部能夠同意好嗎好我回去了解一下這些相關的規定好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 那我們有請顧部長是 學恩好首先呢 我們可以看一下這張手版在這裡呢這邊寫到了這個本院民進黨黨團針對這個立法院第十一屆第三會期第四次的報告事項裡面包含我拿反了 包含\n第39案國民黨擬具軍人保險條例第10條跟第10條16條的修正案然後還有呢國軍廚藝官兵輔導條例還有軍人待遇條例第5條修正案跟軍人待遇條例第6條修正草案都要提出復議那我想要問一下顧部長的態度那對於立法院在對於這些我們的軍人那提出法案修正增加他們權利那請問顧部長呢您是同意還是反對\n我們就這個軍人的待遇條例把它入法這件事情我們沒有贊成那軍人保險條例的部分好像修法的方向是刪除他的應該要的致富額是不是\n一個是從我們就是由全額補助因為他們本來是35%是由自己自付然後我們希望可以全額補助這是一個另外一個就是過去我們就是綁四年之後第五年才能拿到一個保險的基礎也就是說如果你一二三四年你中間退掉的話那你繳的這本來的35%也會不見\n那所以說對於這個來講我們很多軍人他來當軍人之後他可能兩年發現他並不是合這個工作想要離職的時候那他就會卡關大概有這兩個部分我們先請志願書說明一下好啊\n委員好我是資源司司長跟委員報告一下就是軍人保險條例裡面我們雖然規定五年以後才可以勤領但是五年之內所繳的如果他提前離職我們是有退費的規定那但是這其實還是某程度去綁住了嘛因為五年之後呢比方說第六年第七年第八年來講的話其實都是能夠拿到比較好的待遇喔這是蠻多軍人有跟我們反映的一個事情\n那接下来我们是希望他们长留久用啦对于说他马上就可以去理这件事情我们并不鼓励但现在状况有点不一样因为呢你看一下我们去年在国军里面自强的状况还有他们的压力甚大那有一些人他可能做了这个军人福收他发现可能在第二年第三年的时候就不太适任那我们还要让他们继续锁到第五年吗这是我的一个问题喔\n那接下來我要問的是呢其實從去年我們這個新任的立法委員上任之後軍中就已經在傳說要加薪的這件事情可是一年多以來國防部到目前來說始終沒有把這個到底要加多少那講出來那或許呢部長已經有講了比如說某一些單位的加急可是到底要加多少錢到底要怎麼樣現在的基層軍人是人心惶惶因為很多人就想\n他如果沒有的話我要退伍了那所以說什麼時候你們說已經送到行政院去審查但什麼時候報告才會出來才能讓我們知道行政院的方案\n就我理解我跟院長有討論他就說答案就說這個應該是已經他會盡快的把它核定下來盡快是多快呢因為大家一定要盡快盡快你們有時候很快那一個月那如果你說三個月或五個月或七個月都盡快我要告訴部長的是說你們去年就已經在講說要加薪的這件事情\n那已經一年了你還要告訴我盡快的話那你應該要告訴我比較具體的時間點因為很多國軍弟兄都在等這件事應該是這幾個禮拜就會合定這幾個禮拜就會合定了這幾個禮拜合定之後那如果說這個金額上面跟這個我們國軍想像的不一樣的話那我想我們還是會繼續提出這個相關的修法\n跟委員報告了我們現在著重的就是說基層官兵的部分大家都著重在所以我們這個戰鬥部隊的加級因為都是連級以下的那我請問一下戰鬥部隊的加級會翻倍嗎\n戰鬥部隊家裡我們有一定的調整那我想因為所以會不會翻倍因為這個我還蠻建議的委員要體諒一下我想在行政合定之前你不方便你不方便說好那沒有關係我們來第二個題目我知道我知道我知道你的困難我也不打算要逼迫你\n我們來問下一個問題就是呢當時我們在海昆號這個測試的時候博港測試HAT114年的3月19日也就是這個現在那呢在不到兩週的時間4月份就要到了去年11月月底的時候我們在委員會韓居參謀長告訴我們預計4月1號開始做海上測試那請問4月1號要做海上測試了嗎\n報委員是這樣時間點是應該在去年的11月25在委員會期間那我們當初講法從4月1號開始會進入SAT這個階段對那有嗎那這個階段是到9月30號不是嘛4月1號開始做海上測試這是當時你們給我們的承諾我今天要問的是兩個禮拜以後就是4月1號了我們會不會如期的在4月1號開始做海上測試\n跟委員報告我這邊國防部的立場還是以安全為重所以我每個禮拜聽取他們的報告現在相關HAT的缺改的部分他們還在進行當中那我要確保這些缺改的部分我們希望是在4月那不一定要搶在4月1號\n因為主要是當時我們問的時候你們就講就是4月1號我有一直在跟他們確認說有沒有承諾說4月1號他們現在就說但是我還是一句話要給我一個安全的確保當然我們都希望能夠安全那我想請問目前博港測試HAT進度到百分之幾了目前進度我今天兩個問號嘛進度到百分之幾我們缺失目前有幾項\n我想這個相關的實際的這個內容的這個部分因為每次報告都是列入機敏的事項我不認為應該在這個地方可以公開的來說明好沒有問題但那我想要請問的是你們要把這個進度完成到百分之百以及缺失要玩到百分之百那你們預計需要多少的時間\n我們還是規劃在四月份按照我現在的聽取他們的報告還是規劃在四月份會進入海上測試所以四月三十號以前海上測試會開始我可以這麼說嗎我現在所要求他們的應該是這樣子\n我們到時候再來看再來我們可以看4月到9月海策如果說假設你們後續有在變更的話我想應該要跟人民再說明一下最後有一個題目是跟我們官兵休假權益有關的就是我們可以看一下請假的部分\n工訓售價的部分呢你可以看到公務人員的有寫的很明確的法令就是公務人員如果呢他是去進修的話呢那他就是給予工價非常清楚好然後呢如果是這個勞動\n如果是這個勞動相關的話呢那其實只要雇主呢跟這個員工他們有了解之後呢就是也可以給予相關的工資就是呢這是在勞動請假規則的第八條那但是呢我們會看到國軍這個部分我們看國軍\n國軍的軍事官請假規則裡面的第三條第一款第一項裡面寫到軍官士官不論開缺與否因受訓疾病休養或住院期間於次年度的未落假何幾時依第一款所定日數比例折算扣除之不令補休\n那舉例來說如果我現在呢有三個月時間在受訓的話我明年的未落假就需要扣掉四分之一所以部長您過去是職業律師我們可以看到勞工也好公務人員也好他們都有相關的這個規定那我想雖然軍人是一個特殊的行業可是我們也不宜讓大家太過於操勞因為為什麼像我們過去像上個會期我們增加了12倍的這個薪資輔導嘛\n還有過去半一年一年來說自槍的人的數量非常多因為他們壓力很大所以我想要問的是說這個我們勞工身份跟公務人員的身份他都是去在做相關的受訓的時候甚至疾病兩者住院的時候那他是不是還要按照這個目前的請假規則裡面去折抵扣除他的未老假你覺得這樣是合理嗎\n委員這個部分我現在下去以後了解一下,或者是要先說明一下\n委員好 我跟委員說明一下就是說我們現在所有未到假的相關的規定都是看你服役多少年之後你有多少天的未到假那每年我們都會讓這些未到假的請休假讓他請完 因為這個要領不休假獎金或者是相關他的休假權益我們都會鼓勵所有官兵都能夠把他休完\n不是嘛未落假等於說是我們一般人講的這個特休假嘛那只有國軍在扣假公務人員或勞工都沒有在扣假你懂我意思嗎所以你希望他請完但我們講的根本就不是你剛回答的這個問題啊我們講的是上面寫得很清楚嘛如果受訓的期間的話他要比例薪資扣除之然後不吝補休嘛這一條對於我們的官兵來說其實我覺得非常不公平啊\n那公教人員他們都可以勞工都可以就我們軍人不行所以我希望在照顧軍人的同時是不是在這個項目上面我們可以去修正讓他們說在受訓之後你不要不是說要提供他更多的假期喔而是按比例你不要去扣除他的未落假\n現在目前的規定是這個樣子那後續我們會按照委員的意見來參考看怎麼來做一個修訂我們今天還沒有提臨時提案我們下一次會做臨時提案希望你們可以回去先想一想因為公務人員跟勞工都沒有這樣子的情況\n那只有我們辛苦的軍人因為受訓要被扣未落假等於是扣他的特休我覺得這是非常不合理的那所以我們幫所有的基層軍人請命希望國防部能夠同意好嗎好我回去了解一下這些相關的規定好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:03.012\n謝謝主席那我們有請顧部長是學恩好首先呢我們可以看一下這張手版在這裡呢這邊寫到了這個本院民進黨黨團針對這個立法院第十一屆第三會期第四次的報告事項裡面包含我拿反了包含\n\n00:27.472 --> 00:56.633\n第39案國民黨擬具軍人保險條例第10條跟第10條16條的修正案然後還有呢國軍廚藝官兵輔導條例還有軍人待遇條例第5條修正案跟軍人待遇條例第6條修正草案都要提出復議那我想要問一下顧部長的態度那對於立法院在對於這些我們的軍人那提出法案修正增加他們權利那請問顧部長呢您是同意還是反對\n\n00:57.856 --> 01:13.394\n我們就這個軍人的待遇條例把它入法這件事情我們沒有贊成那軍人保險條例的部分好像修法的方向是刪除他的應該要的致富額是不是\n\n01:14.074 --> 01:33.632\n一個是從我們就是由全額補助因為他們本來是35%是由自己自付然後我們希望可以全額補助這是一個另外一個就是過去我們就是綁四年之後第五年才能拿到一個保險的基礎也就是說如果你一二三四年你中間退掉的話那你繳的這本來的35%也會不見\n\n01:36.474 --> 01:51.634\n那所以說對於這個來講我們很多軍人他來當軍人之後他可能兩年發現他並不是合這個工作想要離職的時候那他就會卡關大概有這兩個部分我們先請志願書說明一下好啊\n\n01:53.226 --> 02:16.938\n委員好我是資源司司長跟委員報告一下就是軍人保險條例裡面我們雖然規定五年以後才可以勤領但是五年之內所繳的如果他提前離職我們是有退費的規定那但是這其實還是某程度去綁住了嘛因為五年之後呢比方說第六年第七年第八年來講的話其實都是能夠拿到比較好的待遇喔這是蠻多軍人有跟我們反映的一個事情\n\n02:17.418 --> 02:45.536\n那接下来我们是希望他们长留久用啦对于说他马上就可以去理这件事情我们并不鼓励但现在状况有点不一样因为呢你看一下我们去年在国军里面自强的状况还有他们的压力甚大那有一些人他可能做了这个军人福收他发现可能在第二年第三年的时候就不太适任那我们还要让他们继续锁到第五年吗这是我的一个问题喔\n\n02:45.876 --> 03:14.335\n那接下來我要問的是呢其實從去年我們這個新任的立法委員上任之後軍中就已經在傳說要加薪的這件事情可是一年多以來國防部到目前來說始終沒有把這個到底要加多少那講出來那或許呢部長已經有講了比如說某一些單位的加急可是到底要加多少錢到底要怎麼樣現在的基層軍人是人心惶惶因為很多人就想\n\n03:14.775 --> 03:24.906\n他如果沒有的話我要退伍了那所以說什麼時候你們說已經送到行政院去審查但什麼時候報告才會出來才能讓我們知道行政院的方案\n\n03:26.168 --> 03:45.706\n就我理解我跟院長有討論他就說答案就說這個應該是已經他會盡快的把它核定下來盡快是多快呢因為大家一定要盡快盡快你們有時候很快那一個月那如果你說三個月或五個月或七個月都盡快我要告訴部長的是說你們去年就已經在講說要加薪的這件事情\n\n03:50.771 --> 04:03.679\n那已經一年了你還要告訴我盡快的話那你應該要告訴我比較具體的時間點因為很多國軍弟兄都在等這件事應該是這幾個禮拜就會合定這幾個禮拜就會合定了這幾個禮拜合定之後那如果說這個金額上面跟這個我們國軍想像的不一樣的話那我想我們還是會繼續提出這個相關的修法\n\n04:15.926 --> 04:29.546\n跟委員報告了我們現在著重的就是說基層官兵的部分大家都著重在所以我們這個戰鬥部隊的加級因為都是連級以下的那我請問一下戰鬥部隊的加級會翻倍嗎\n\n04:30.806 --> 04:50.135\n戰鬥部隊家裡我們有一定的調整那我想因為所以會不會翻倍因為這個我還蠻建議的委員要體諒一下我想在行政合定之前你不方便你不方便說好那沒有關係我們來第二個題目我知道我知道我知道你的困難我也不打算要逼迫你\n\n04:50.615 --> 05:09.945\n我們來問下一個問題就是呢當時我們在海昆號這個測試的時候博港測試HAT114年的3月19日也就是這個現在那呢在不到兩週的時間4月份就要到了去年11月月底的時候我們在委員會韓居參謀長告訴我們預計4月1號開始做海上測試那請問4月1號要做海上測試了嗎\n\n05:17.148 --> 05:24.414\n報委員是這樣時間點是應該在去年的11月25在委員會期間那我們當初講法從4月1號開始會進入SAT這個階段對那有嗎那這個階段是到9月30號不是嘛4月1號開始做海上測試這是當時你們給我們的承諾我今天要問的是兩個禮拜以後就是4月1號了我們會不會如期的在4月1號開始做海上測試\n\n05:44.429 --> 06:02.474\n跟委員報告我這邊國防部的立場還是以安全為重所以我每個禮拜聽取他們的報告現在相關HAT的缺改的部分他們還在進行當中那我要確保這些缺改的部分我們希望是在4月那不一定要搶在4月1號\n\n06:04.754 --> 06:30.525\n因為主要是當時我們問的時候你們就講就是4月1號我有一直在跟他們確認說有沒有承諾說4月1號他們現在就說但是我還是一句話要給我一個安全的確保當然我們都希望能夠安全那我想請問目前博港測試HAT進度到百分之幾了目前進度我今天兩個問號嘛進度到百分之幾我們缺失目前有幾項\n\n06:32.543 --> 06:53.616\n我想這個相關的實際的這個內容的這個部分因為每次報告都是列入機敏的事項我不認為應該在這個地方可以公開的來說明好沒有問題但那我想要請問的是你們要把這個進度完成到百分之百以及缺失要玩到百分之百那你們預計需要多少的時間\n\n06:55.017 --> 07:06.231\n我們還是規劃在四月份按照我現在的聽取他們的報告還是規劃在四月份會進入海上測試所以四月三十號以前海上測試會開始我可以這麼說嗎我現在所要求他們的應該是這樣子\n\n07:11.918 --> 07:30.381\n我們到時候再來看再來我們可以看4月到9月海策如果說假設你們後續有在變更的話我想應該要跟人民再說明一下最後有一個題目是跟我們官兵休假權益有關的就是我們可以看一下請假的部分\n\n07:31.822 --> 07:43.606\n工訓售價的部分呢你可以看到公務人員的有寫的很明確的法令就是公務人員如果呢他是去進修的話呢那他就是給予工價非常清楚好然後呢如果是這個勞動\n\n07:48.527 --> 08:00.040\n如果是這個勞動相關的話呢那其實只要雇主呢跟這個員工他們有了解之後呢就是也可以給予相關的工資就是呢這是在勞動請假規則的第八條那但是呢我們會看到國軍這個部分我們看國軍\n\n08:07.729 --> 08:26.729\n國軍的軍事官請假規則裡面的第三條第一款第一項裡面寫到軍官士官不論開缺與否因受訓疾病休養或住院期間於次年度的未落假何幾時依第一款所定日數比例折算扣除之不令補休\n\n08:27.330 --> 08:49.164\n那舉例來說如果我現在呢有三個月時間在受訓的話我明年的未落假就需要扣掉四分之一所以部長您過去是職業律師我們可以看到勞工也好公務人員也好他們都有相關的這個規定那我想雖然軍人是一個特殊的行業可是我們也不宜讓大家太過於操勞因為為什麼像我們過去像上個會期我們增加了12倍的這個薪資輔導嘛\n\n08:53.887 --> 09:22.184\n還有過去半一年一年來說自槍的人的數量非常多因為他們壓力很大所以我想要問的是說這個我們勞工身份跟公務人員的身份他都是去在做相關的受訓的時候甚至疾病兩者住院的時候那他是不是還要按照這個目前的請假規則裡面去折抵扣除他的未老假你覺得這樣是合理嗎\n\n09:23.704 --> 09:33.165\n委員這個部分我現在下去以後了解一下,或者是要先說明一下\n\n09:34.169 --> 09:55.899\n委員好我跟委員說明一下就是說我們現在所有未到假的相關的規定都是看你服役多少年之後你有多少天的未到假那每年我們都會讓這些未到假的請休假讓他請完因為這個要領不休假獎金或者是相關他的休假權益我們都會鼓勵所有官兵都能夠把他休完\n\n09:56.559 --> 10:24.415\n不是嘛未落假等於說是我們一般人講的這個特休假嘛那只有國軍在扣假公務人員或勞工都沒有在扣假你懂我意思嗎所以你希望他請完但我們講的根本就不是你剛回答的這個問題啊我們講的是上面寫得很清楚嘛如果受訓的期間的話他要比例薪資扣除之然後不吝補休嘛這一條對於我們的官兵來說其實我覺得非常不公平啊\n\n10:24.895 --> 10:43.547\n那公教人員他們都可以勞工都可以就我們軍人不行所以我希望在照顧軍人的同時是不是在這個項目上面我們可以去修正讓他們說在受訓之後你不要不是說要提供他更多的假期喔而是按比例你不要去扣除他的未落假\n\n10:45.119 --> 10:53.906\n現在目前的規定是這個樣子那後續我們會按照委員的意見來參考看怎麼來做一個修訂我們今天還沒有提臨時提案我們下一次會做臨時提案希望你們可以回去先想一想因為公務人員跟勞工都沒有這樣子的情況\n\n11:04.173 --> 11:19.340\n那只有我們辛苦的軍人因為受訓要被扣未落假等於是扣他的特休我覺得這是非常不合理的那所以我們幫所有的基層軍人請命希望國防部能夠同意好嗎好我回去了解一下這些相關的規定好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":3.012,"text":"謝謝主席 那我們有請顧部長是 學恩好首先呢 我們可以看一下這張手版在這裡呢這邊寫到了這個本院民進黨黨團針對這個立法院第十一屆第三會期第四次的報告事項裡面包含我拿反了 包含"},{"start":27.472,"end":56.633,"text":"第39案國民黨擬具軍人保險條例第10條跟第10條16條的修正案然後還有呢國軍廚藝官兵輔導條例還有軍人待遇條例第5條修正案跟軍人待遇條例第6條修正草案都要提出復議那我想要問一下顧部長的態度那對於立法院在對於這些我們的軍人那提出法案修正增加他們權利那請問顧部長呢您是同意還是反對"},{"start":57.856,"end":73.394,"text":"我們就這個軍人的待遇條例把它入法這件事情我們沒有贊成那軍人保險條例的部分好像修法的方向是刪除他的應該要的致富額是不是"},{"start":74.074,"end":93.632,"text":"一個是從我們就是由全額補助因為他們本來是35%是由自己自付然後我們希望可以全額補助這是一個另外一個就是過去我們就是綁四年之後第五年才能拿到一個保險的基礎也就是說如果你一二三四年你中間退掉的話那你繳的這本來的35%也會不見"},{"start":96.474,"end":111.634,"text":"那所以說對於這個來講我們很多軍人他來當軍人之後他可能兩年發現他並不是合這個工作想要離職的時候那他就會卡關大概有這兩個部分我們先請志願書說明一下好啊"},{"start":113.226,"end":136.938,"text":"委員好我是資源司司長跟委員報告一下就是軍人保險條例裡面我們雖然規定五年以後才可以勤領但是五年之內所繳的如果他提前離職我們是有退費的規定那但是這其實還是某程度去綁住了嘛因為五年之後呢比方說第六年第七年第八年來講的話其實都是能夠拿到比較好的待遇喔這是蠻多軍人有跟我們反映的一個事情"},{"start":137.418,"end":165.536,"text":"那接下来我们是希望他们长留久用啦对于说他马上就可以去理这件事情我们并不鼓励但现在状况有点不一样因为呢你看一下我们去年在国军里面自强的状况还有他们的压力甚大那有一些人他可能做了这个军人福收他发现可能在第二年第三年的时候就不太适任那我们还要让他们继续锁到第五年吗这是我的一个问题喔"},{"start":165.876,"end":194.335,"text":"那接下來我要問的是呢其實從去年我們這個新任的立法委員上任之後軍中就已經在傳說要加薪的這件事情可是一年多以來國防部到目前來說始終沒有把這個到底要加多少那講出來那或許呢部長已經有講了比如說某一些單位的加急可是到底要加多少錢到底要怎麼樣現在的基層軍人是人心惶惶因為很多人就想"},{"start":194.775,"end":204.906,"text":"他如果沒有的話我要退伍了那所以說什麼時候你們說已經送到行政院去審查但什麼時候報告才會出來才能讓我們知道行政院的方案"},{"start":206.168,"end":225.706,"text":"就我理解我跟院長有討論他就說答案就說這個應該是已經他會盡快的把它核定下來盡快是多快呢因為大家一定要盡快盡快你們有時候很快那一個月那如果你說三個月或五個月或七個月都盡快我要告訴部長的是說你們去年就已經在講說要加薪的這件事情"},{"start":230.771,"end":243.679,"text":"那已經一年了你還要告訴我盡快的話那你應該要告訴我比較具體的時間點因為很多國軍弟兄都在等這件事應該是這幾個禮拜就會合定這幾個禮拜就會合定了這幾個禮拜合定之後那如果說這個金額上面跟這個我們國軍想像的不一樣的話那我想我們還是會繼續提出這個相關的修法"},{"start":255.926,"end":269.546,"text":"跟委員報告了我們現在著重的就是說基層官兵的部分大家都著重在所以我們這個戰鬥部隊的加級因為都是連級以下的那我請問一下戰鬥部隊的加級會翻倍嗎"},{"start":270.806,"end":290.135,"text":"戰鬥部隊家裡我們有一定的調整那我想因為所以會不會翻倍因為這個我還蠻建議的委員要體諒一下我想在行政合定之前你不方便你不方便說好那沒有關係我們來第二個題目我知道我知道我知道你的困難我也不打算要逼迫你"},{"start":290.615,"end":309.945,"text":"我們來問下一個問題就是呢當時我們在海昆號這個測試的時候博港測試HAT114年的3月19日也就是這個現在那呢在不到兩週的時間4月份就要到了去年11月月底的時候我們在委員會韓居參謀長告訴我們預計4月1號開始做海上測試那請問4月1號要做海上測試了嗎"},{"start":317.148,"end":324.414,"text":"報委員是這樣時間點是應該在去年的11月25在委員會期間那我們當初講法從4月1號開始會進入SAT這個階段對那有嗎那這個階段是到9月30號不是嘛4月1號開始做海上測試這是當時你們給我們的承諾我今天要問的是兩個禮拜以後就是4月1號了我們會不會如期的在4月1號開始做海上測試"},{"start":344.429,"end":362.474,"text":"跟委員報告我這邊國防部的立場還是以安全為重所以我每個禮拜聽取他們的報告現在相關HAT的缺改的部分他們還在進行當中那我要確保這些缺改的部分我們希望是在4月那不一定要搶在4月1號"},{"start":364.754,"end":390.525,"text":"因為主要是當時我們問的時候你們就講就是4月1號我有一直在跟他們確認說有沒有承諾說4月1號他們現在就說但是我還是一句話要給我一個安全的確保當然我們都希望能夠安全那我想請問目前博港測試HAT進度到百分之幾了目前進度我今天兩個問號嘛進度到百分之幾我們缺失目前有幾項"},{"start":392.543,"end":413.616,"text":"我想這個相關的實際的這個內容的這個部分因為每次報告都是列入機敏的事項我不認為應該在這個地方可以公開的來說明好沒有問題但那我想要請問的是你們要把這個進度完成到百分之百以及缺失要玩到百分之百那你們預計需要多少的時間"},{"start":415.017,"end":426.231,"text":"我們還是規劃在四月份按照我現在的聽取他們的報告還是規劃在四月份會進入海上測試所以四月三十號以前海上測試會開始我可以這麼說嗎我現在所要求他們的應該是這樣子"},{"start":431.918,"end":450.381,"text":"我們到時候再來看再來我們可以看4月到9月海策如果說假設你們後續有在變更的話我想應該要跟人民再說明一下最後有一個題目是跟我們官兵休假權益有關的就是我們可以看一下請假的部分"},{"start":451.822,"end":463.606,"text":"工訓售價的部分呢你可以看到公務人員的有寫的很明確的法令就是公務人員如果呢他是去進修的話呢那他就是給予工價非常清楚好然後呢如果是這個勞動"},{"start":468.527,"end":480.04,"text":"如果是這個勞動相關的話呢那其實只要雇主呢跟這個員工他們有了解之後呢就是也可以給予相關的工資就是呢這是在勞動請假規則的第八條那但是呢我們會看到國軍這個部分我們看國軍"},{"start":487.729,"end":506.729,"text":"國軍的軍事官請假規則裡面的第三條第一款第一項裡面寫到軍官士官不論開缺與否因受訓疾病休養或住院期間於次年度的未落假何幾時依第一款所定日數比例折算扣除之不令補休"},{"start":507.33,"end":529.164,"text":"那舉例來說如果我現在呢有三個月時間在受訓的話我明年的未落假就需要扣掉四分之一所以部長您過去是職業律師我們可以看到勞工也好公務人員也好他們都有相關的這個規定那我想雖然軍人是一個特殊的行業可是我們也不宜讓大家太過於操勞因為為什麼像我們過去像上個會期我們增加了12倍的這個薪資輔導嘛"},{"start":533.887,"end":562.184,"text":"還有過去半一年一年來說自槍的人的數量非常多因為他們壓力很大所以我想要問的是說這個我們勞工身份跟公務人員的身份他都是去在做相關的受訓的時候甚至疾病兩者住院的時候那他是不是還要按照這個目前的請假規則裡面去折抵扣除他的未老假你覺得這樣是合理嗎"},{"start":563.704,"end":573.165,"text":"委員這個部分我現在下去以後了解一下,或者是要先說明一下"},{"start":574.169,"end":595.899,"text":"委員好 我跟委員說明一下就是說我們現在所有未到假的相關的規定都是看你服役多少年之後你有多少天的未到假那每年我們都會讓這些未到假的請休假讓他請完 因為這個要領不休假獎金或者是相關他的休假權益我們都會鼓勵所有官兵都能夠把他休完"},{"start":596.559,"end":624.415,"text":"不是嘛未落假等於說是我們一般人講的這個特休假嘛那只有國軍在扣假公務人員或勞工都沒有在扣假你懂我意思嗎所以你希望他請完但我們講的根本就不是你剛回答的這個問題啊我們講的是上面寫得很清楚嘛如果受訓的期間的話他要比例薪資扣除之然後不吝補休嘛這一條對於我們的官兵來說其實我覺得非常不公平啊"},{"start":624.895,"end":643.547,"text":"那公教人員他們都可以勞工都可以就我們軍人不行所以我希望在照顧軍人的同時是不是在這個項目上面我們可以去修正讓他們說在受訓之後你不要不是說要提供他更多的假期喔而是按比例你不要去扣除他的未落假"},{"start":645.119,"end":653.906,"text":"現在目前的規定是這個樣子那後續我們會按照委員的意見來參考看怎麼來做一個修訂我們今天還沒有提臨時提案我們下一次會做臨時提案希望你們可以回去先想一想因為公務人員跟勞工都沒有這樣子的情況"},{"start":664.173,"end":679.34,"text":"那只有我們辛苦的軍人因為受訓要被扣未落假等於是扣他的特休我覺得這是非常不合理的那所以我們幫所有的基層軍人請命希望國防部能夠同意好嗎好我回去了解一下這些相關的規定好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":673,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（11時54分）謝謝主席。有請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：徐委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：首先看一下這張手板，這邊寫到本院民進黨黨團針對立法院第11屆第3會期第4次的報告事項，包含第39案，國民黨擬具軍人保險條例第十條和第十六條的修正案、國軍除役官兵輔導條例、軍人待遇條例第五條修正案和軍人待遇條例第六條修正草案，都要提出復議。本席想要問一下顧部長的態度，對於立法院針對軍人的部分提出法案修正，增加他們的權益，請問顧部長，您是同意還是反對？"],["顧部長立雄：就軍人待遇條例入法這一件事情，我們沒有贊成。軍人保險條例的部分，修法的方向好像是刪除他的自付額，是不是？"],["徐委員巧芯：一個是全額補助，因為他本來是35%自付，我們希望可以全額補助。另外一個，過去是綁4年，第5年才能拿到一個保險的基數。也就是說，如果你第1、2、3、4年退掉的話，本來繳的35%也會不見。就這個部分來說，很多人從軍之後，可能兩年就發現他並不適合這個工作，當他想要離職的時候就會卡關，大概有這兩個部分。"],["顧部長立雄：是不是先請資源司說明一下？"],["徐委員巧芯：好啊！"],["藍司長靜婷：委員好，我是資源司司長。軍人保險條例雖然規定5年以後才可以請領，但是5年之內所繳的，如果他提前離職，我們是有退費的規定。"],["徐委員巧芯：但是就某種程度來說，其實這樣還是綁住了嘛！因為5年之後，比方第6年、第7年、第8年，其實都能夠拿到比較好的待遇，有滿多軍人向我們反映這件事情。接下來……"],["顧部長立雄：我們是希望他們長留久用啦！"],["徐委員巧芯：是啊！"],["顧部長立雄：對於他馬上可以請領這件事情，我們並不鼓勵。"],["徐委員巧芯：可是現在的狀況有點不一樣，像去年國軍發生有人自戕的狀況，而且因為壓力甚大，有些人可能是當了軍人之後，第2年、第3年就發現不太適任，這樣我們還要讓他們繼續鎖到第5年嗎？這是我的一個問題。接下來我要問的是，其實去年立法委員上任之後，軍中就已經在傳加薪這件事情，可是這一年多來，到目前為止國防部始終沒有說明到底要加多少。","或許部長已經有說了，比如某些單位的加給，可是到底要加多少？到底要怎麼做？現在基層軍人人心惶惶，因為很多人就在想，如果沒有加薪的話，他就想要退伍了。你們說已經送到行政院審查，但是什麼時候報告才會送出來，才能讓我們知道行政院的方案？"],["顧部長立雄：就我的理解，我也和院長討論過，他的答案是會儘快核定。"],["徐委員巧芯：儘快是多快呢？大家都知道要儘快處理，但是你們所謂的很快，有可能是一個月，也有可能是3個月、5個月或7個月。"],["顧部長立雄：應該……"],["徐委員巧芯：我要告訴部長的是，你們去年就在說加薪這件事情，已經一年了，如果現在還是只能說「儘快」的話，應該要告訴我比較具體的時間點，因為很多國軍弟兄都在等這件事。"],["顧部長立雄：應該是這幾個禮拜就會核定。"],["徐委員巧芯：這幾個禮拜就會核定了？"],["顧部長立雄：對。"],["徐委員巧芯：好。這幾個禮拜核定之後，如果金額和國軍想像的不一樣，我們還是會繼續提出相關修法。"],["顧部長立雄：我們現在著重的是基層官兵的部分，因為大家都著重在這個部分。戰鬥部隊的加給，因為都是連級以下，這個部分會加的……"],["徐委員巧芯：請問一下，戰鬥部隊的加給會翻倍嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：戰鬥部隊加給，我們會做一定的調整。因為現在……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以會不會翻倍？因為這個部分我滿介意的。"],["顧部長立雄：委員也要體諒一下啦！在行政院核定之前，我不適宜幫行政院發言，這樣是逾越院長的職院權。"],["徐委員巧芯：你不方便說？好，沒有關係，我們來問第二個題目，我知道你的困難，我也不打算逼迫你，我們來問下一個問題。海鯤號泊港測試HAT是114年3月19日，現在不到兩週的時間，4月份就要到了，去年11月月底的時候在委員會，海軍參謀長告訴我們預計4月1日開始做海上測試。請問4月1日要做海上測試了嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：那個時間點應該是在去年的11月25日，是在委員會期間，我們當初的說法是從4月1日開始進入SAT這個階段。"],["徐委員巧芯：對。有嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：這個階段是到9月30日。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是嘛！4月1日開始做海上測試，這是當時你們給我們的承諾，本席今天要問的是，兩個禮拜以後就是4月1日，會不會如期在4月1日開始做海上測試？"],["顧部長立雄：國防部的立場還是以安全為重。我每個禮拜都會聽取他們的報告，現在相關HAT的缺改，他們還在進行當中，我要確保缺改的部分……"],["徐委員巧芯：當然，我同意。"],["顧部長立雄：我們希望是在4月，但不一定要搶在4月1日。"],["徐委員巧芯：主要是當時我們詢問的時候，你們說4月1日。"],["顧部長立雄：我也一直在和他們確認有沒有承諾4月1日，他們現在是這麼說的。但我還是一句話，要做到安全的確保再進入SAT的階段。"],["徐委員巧芯：當然啊！我們都希望安全。那麼我想請問，目前泊港測試HAT進度到百分之幾？本席今天有兩個問號，進度到百分之幾？目前缺失有幾項？"],["顧部長立雄：關於實際的內容，因為每次報告都是列入機敏事項，我不認為應該在這個地方公開說明。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，沒有問題。我想要請問的是，進度要完成到百分之百，以及缺失要改善到百分之百，預計需要多少時間？"],["顧部長立雄：我們還是規劃在4月份。按照我現在聽取的報告，還是規劃4月份會進入海上測試的階段。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以4月30日以前會開始海上測試，我可以這麼說嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我現在要求他們的是這樣。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，我們到時候再來看。因為4月到9月海測嘛！假設你們後續有再變更的話，應該要再向人民說明一下。最後這個題目是和官兵休假權益有關，我們看一下請假的部分。受訓公假，公務員的部分有很明確的法令，如果公務人員去進修就是給予公假，這部分非常清楚。如果是和勞工相關的，其實只要雇主和員工彼此了解之後，也可以給予相關工資，這是勞工請假規則第八條。","但是國軍的部分，國軍的軍事官請假規則第三條第一款第一項寫到，「軍官、士官不論開缺與否，因受訓、疾病休養或住院期間，於次年度慰勞假核給時，依第一款所定日數，比例折算扣除之，不另補休。」舉例來說，如果現在有3個月的時間在受訓的話，明年的慰勞假就需要扣掉四分之一。部長，您過去是執業律師，我們可以看到，不管是勞工也好，公務人員也好，他們都有相關的規定。","雖然軍人是一個特殊的行業，可是我們也不宜讓大家太過操勞，為什麼？上個會期我們增加12倍的心諮輔導，因為過去一年自戕人數非常多，他們的壓力很大。所以本席想要問的是，如果是勞工身分和公務人員身分，他們受訓的時候，甚至是疾病休養、住院的時候，是不是還要按照目前的請假規則，折抵、扣除他的慰勞假？你覺得這樣合理嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：委員，這個部分我下去以後了解一下。是不是要先說明一下？"],["劉次長沛智：委員好。向委員說明一下，我們現在所有慰勞假的相關規定，都是看你服役多少年，然後有多少天慰勞假，每年我們都會讓他們把慰勞假請完，因為這個關係到領不休假獎金，或者攸關他的休假權益，所以我們會鼓勵所有官兵都能夠把假休完。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是嘛！慰勞假等於一般人說的特休假嘛！只有國軍在扣假，公務人員或勞工都沒有扣假，你懂本席的意思嗎？你是希望他請完，但我們現在說的，根本就不是你剛剛回答的啊！上面寫的很清楚嘛！如果有受訓要比例折算扣除之，不另補休嘛！這一條對我們的官兵非常不公平，公教人員可以，勞工可以，只有軍人不行。所以本席希望在照顧軍人的同時，這個項目是不是可以修正？讓他們在受訓之後，不是要提供他更多假期喔！而是不要按比例扣除他的慰勞假。"],["劉次長沛智：現在的規定是這個樣子，後續我們會按照委員的意見參考，看看要怎麼修訂。"],["徐委員巧芯：好。我們今天沒有提臨時提案，但下一次會提案，希望你們回去可以先想一想。因為公務人員和勞工都沒有這樣的情況，只有辛苦的軍人因為受訓要被扣慰勞假，等於是扣他的特休，本席覺得這是非常不合理的，所以我們要幫所有的基層軍人請命，希望國防部能夠同意，好嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：好，我回去了解一下相關規定。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐委員。","接下來請鄭正鈐委員上台質詢。鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","接下來請李坤城委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":316,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-4","speakers":["沈伯洋","羅美玲","馬文君","王定宇","陳冠廷","黃仁","陳永康","林楚茵","翁曉玲","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","張啓楷","徐巧芯","李坤城","邱志偉","蔡易餘","林憶君","蘇清泉","王鴻薇"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-03-19"],"gazette_id":"1142801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142801_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況暨「四年期國防總檢討」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142801_00016"}}}