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\"情\", \"start\": 528.901, \"end\": 529.221, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 529.221, \"end\": 529.381, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 529.381, \"end\": 529.921, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 529.921, \"end\": 530.662, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 530.662, \"end\": 530.782, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 530.782, \"end\": 531.142, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 531.142, \"end\": 531.402, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 531.402, \"end\": 531.582, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 531.582, \"end\": 532.222, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 532.222, \"end\": 532.543, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 532.543, \"end\": 533.463, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 533.463, \"end\": 533.623, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 533.623, 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00:00:27,451\n是李委員好來部長好辛苦了這個本席請教一下在這個今年的1月12號國安局有公布一個共諜案滲透手法分析然後其中有提到就是說這一個共諜案起訴的人數明顯的上升在2021年是16人到2024年已經到了64人這個成長了4倍\n\n3\n00:00:31,713 --> 00:00:43,659\n然後呢這個國安局也提到說這個滲透的目標呢這個包含軍事單位政府機關民間協會但是呢這個現役軍人呢去年啊這個現役軍人這個遭起訴的呢有28人然後那個退役的軍人呢遭起訴有15人總共占這個共諜案起訴的43%\n\n4\n00:00:52,944 --> 00:01:15,038\n所以這個現役退役的軍人是中共對台滲透的主要的鎖定對象我不曉得部長有沒有看過國安局的這份報告是有所以他也透過了五大滲透管道還有四大守法那主要都是針對現役或是退役的軍人比如說勾結黑幫發展武裝內應\n\n5\n00:01:19,742 --> 00:01:34,302\n開設地下錢莊引誘投共利誘公廟吸引軍人刺密成立統戰的組織動員借血還有透過網路勾連部件組織等等那所以呢也因為這樣子所以賴總統這個也\n\n6\n00:01:36,665 --> 00:02:00,717\n因應的共諜或是中國境外的敵對勢力影響越來越嚴重所以有一個17項的國安因應策略其中跟國防部比較有相關的應該就是說要恢復軍事審判的制度未來的先移軍人如果是觸犯陸海空軍刑法的軍事犯罪案例交由軍事法院來審判\n\n7\n00:02:02,958 --> 00:02:06,790\n那這個其實大家都有在問我今天早上有在聽\n\n8\n00:02:07,694 --> 00:02:35,025\n但是呢這個總統提出來這個在現在如果是現役軍人他如果是犯了軍事的這一個案例之後呢是由這個軍事法庭來審判那有些人也有提出有不同的意見跟看法這個是說因為我們現在的這一個不管是泄密或是共諜案都是很多的這個常態都是軍民共犯\n\n9\n00:02:36,105 --> 00:02:49,274\n有軍人也有民間的民間的也有可能是退役沒多久的先吸收剛退役的軍人再用他的人脈來滲透現役的軍人洩密叛國像雄三飛彈就是複製這種模式\n\n10\n00:02:56,218 --> 00:03:20,946\n那所以呢現在大家的問題在於說呢這個軍民共犯的情況呢那未來如果這個軍事審判呢就是說那現役軍人當然就是軍事審判那如果按照憲法規定的不受軍事審判的非役軍人呢就由普通的法院來審判那這種情況之下呢就會有發生說這個如果是同一個案件身份不一樣有的是現役軍人有的是這個平民或是剛退役的\n\n11\n00:03:24,867 --> 00:03:50,558\n那或是說呢發生案件的時間呢有可能是在他當軍人的時候但是呢這個被追溯的時候有可能是在他已經不是軍人了會遇到這種情況所以外界也有聲音說是不是這個除了這個總統他所提到說這個軍事的這一個審判法庭之外在我們的普通法院也設立這個國安的軍事專業法庭那我請教一下部長的意見我想\n\n12\n00:03:55,766 --> 00:04:09,939\n應該兩個,第一個就是說我們重新打造的軍事審判,重點是在於為這個因為現在還是二元化,所以平戰轉換,所以在平時要建構一個新的軍事審判體系,暫時才能夠有一定的量\n\n13\n00:04:10,820 --> 00:04:38,568\n那至於在軍事審判之外要不要搭配這個軍法官參審有一個這個國安法庭的一個設計我覺得這個要跟司法院做進行的要一個溝通也就是說如果是要裁掉現在按照國安國家安全法第十九條規定第十九條的規定就是說這個各級的這個法院法官辦理案件的時候呢就要設這個就可以設國安軍事專研法庭啦\n\n14\n00:04:39,909 --> 00:04:59,655\n他現在就我的了解他是專股然後兼辦他並沒有設置一個專者的一個專業法庭讓部長看一下這是這個司法院所提供的資料他說現在這一個國安軍事專業法庭除了有你剛才這個部長講的這個專股之外\n\n15\n00:05:00,575 --> 00:05:22,895\n也有專業的法庭這當然是司法院提供的資料部長知不知道這份資料我知道就是說因為他有這樣子的要求但是現在實際的實現的狀況當然就是我早上已經有說過了因為我們早年在從事這些推動這些專業法庭的時候都會發現事實上有各種各樣的專業法庭有什麼\n\n16\n00:05:25,818 --> 00:05:43,875\n金融專業法庭各種專業法庭事實上這樣的一個專業法庭它會隨著人員的調動事實上這個專業法庭的專業性事實上是還是有一些質疑不過剛剛委員提到的就是說\n\n17\n00:05:45,336 --> 00:06:06,434\n除了用軍事審判之外那另外還有一種設計是說他如果違反國安法的相關案件那涉及到退役跟現役軍人或者是其他的民人的時候那是不是在這個國安法庭裡面由交由這個法院來審判這一件事情而且他有可能是交由高等的法院來審判\n\n18\n00:06:07,855 --> 00:06:30,103\n這一件事情我現在沒有辦法完全的排除但是我們軍事審判的這個制度還是要重新打造那有沒有另外有一個這樣的一個設計的可能性我們要跟史蘭做一個溝通這樣子就是說當然這個軍事的審判法庭那現在要重新打造那另外就是說我剛才所提到就是說在浦東法院\n\n19\n00:06:31,003 --> 00:06:47,844\n也是一個這個專業的國安的法庭是不是能夠避免我剛所提到就是說因為現在這個不管是共諜案、泄密案等等之類的它違反的有可能是違反國安法違反國安無法違反這個反滲透法那就是由這個國安專業法庭它現在\n\n20\n00:06:49,125 --> 00:07:04,418\n架構上是會有我稍微跟委員解釋一下就是說他涉犯國安法那如果他也同時因為他通常他一旦涉及國安法他同時應該也會涉及入海公園起碼第二篇的洩密這個等等的部分那\n\n21\n00:07:04,938 --> 00:07:19,949\n理論上來講犯罪一部是屬於亂供應刑法他就要受軍事審判那但是如果這個部分跟社團協商如果他有一個共犯的概念就是說這個共犯包括了現役軍人包括退役軍人等等這些共犯的部分要不要交給一個\n\n22\n00:07:21,070 --> 00:07:45,568\n他設了一個軍事專業法庭而這個軍事專業法庭確實是也讓我們的人可以進入一起的話這個部分的設計可能我已經看到有相關的學者提出這個概念就是參審制的概念那我們必須要跟他一起來討論也就是說這樣子的一個參審是比較接近德國制的一種參審而不是一種國民參審\n\n23\n00:07:46,949 --> 00:08:02,377\n那如果說不是國民參審的話那而是一種專業參審的話那這一個軍法官要不要具有軍法官的資格這個部分都還要跟史懷恩做一個協商這個其實是蠻技術有蠻專業性的這個部分還要跟史懷恩做一個協商\n\n24\n00:08:03,897 --> 00:08:27,726\n這個提供這個部長做參考主席我再問最後一個問題一分鐘就好了這個按照國防部所提供這個四年期國防總檢討有提到就是說國防預算要爭取到這個GDP的3%以上的目標那請問一下現在是多少我們現在國防預算佔GDP多少大概2.45%左右2.45%對那如果要達3%大概要增加多少\n\n25\n00:08:28,513 --> 00:08:39,244\n一千多億那這個總統他有提到就是說是不是用這個編列特別預算的方式然後讓國防預算能夠達到3%\n\n26\n00:08:42,717 --> 00:08:59,867\n因為我們避免都編在年度預算的話會排擠其他各部會的預算的情況之下編列特別預算是一個方式是一個比較可行的方式但是特別預算的一個編列一定要有一個條例要經過大院同意\n\n27\n00:09:00,947 --> 00:09:21,233\n所以我們現在的問題是在於是說我們要屬於立即應該可以快速獲得的這個部分我們才能夠編列入特別預算所以是哪些項目是我們現在可以立即快速獲得的這個部分然後合乎我們的防衛作戰的實際需要這個部分我們正在審慎的這個研議當中\n\n28\n00:09:25,694 --> 00:09:45,397\n那部長有來爭取說那這是因為這個稅收高於預期增加這五千多億扣掉地方有三千多億有沒有來爭取在其中的一千億來作為這個特別預算我想這個不是國防部應該要主責的事項這是主計長或者是行政院的權責國防部有沒有爭取我當然最後是由行政院來決定有沒有來爭取\n\n29\n00:09:46,619 --> 00:10:00,302\n我們爭取的是說按照總統的政策指示到達3%這個目標如何達成那裁員的來源這個要有行政院他來主責好先問到這邊好了謝謝謝謝主席謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n672\t2321\t謝謝主席我們請顧部長請部長 謝謝\n9702\t27451\t是 李委員好來 部長好 辛苦了這個本席請教一下在這個今年的1月12號國安局有公布一個共諜案滲透手法分析然後其中有提到就是說這一個共諜案起訴的人數明顯的上升在2021年是16人到2024年已經到了64人這個成長了4倍\n31713\t43659\t然後呢 這個國安局也提到說 這個滲透的目標呢 這個包含軍事單位 政府機關 民間協會但是呢 這個現役軍人呢 去年啊 這個現役軍人 這個遭起訴的呢 有28人然後那個退役的軍人呢 遭起訴有15人 總共占這個共諜案起訴的43%\n52944\t75038\t所以這個現役退役的軍人是中共對台滲透的主要的鎖定對象我不曉得部長有沒有看過國安局的這份報告是 有所以他也透過了五大滲透管道還有四大守法那主要都是針對現役或是退役的軍人比如說勾結黑幫 發展武裝內應\n79742\t94302\t開設地下錢莊引誘投共利誘公廟吸引軍人刺密成立統戰的組織動員借血還有透過網路勾連部件組織等等那所以呢也因為這樣子所以賴總統這個也\n96665\t120717\t因應的共諜或是中國境外的敵對勢力影響越來越嚴重所以有一個17項的國安因應策略其中跟國防部比較有相關的應該就是說要恢復軍事審判的制度未來的先移軍人如果是觸犯陸海空軍刑法的軍事犯罪案例交由軍事法院來審判\n122958\t126790\t那這個其實大家都有在問我今天早上有在聽\n127694\t155025\t但是呢 這個總統提出來這個在現在如果是現役軍人他如果是犯了軍事的這一個案例之後呢是由這個軍事法庭來審判那有些人也有提出有不同的意見跟看法這個是說因為我們現在的這一個不管是泄密或是共諜案都是很多的這個常態都是軍民共犯\n156105\t169274\t有軍人也有民間的 民間的也有可能是退役沒多久的先吸收剛退役的軍人 再用他的人脈來滲透現役的軍人洩密叛國像雄三飛彈就是複製這種模式\n176218\t200946\t那所以呢現在大家的問題在於說呢這個軍民共犯的情況呢那未來如果這個軍事審判呢就是說那現役軍人當然就是軍事審判那如果按照憲法規定的不受軍事審判的非役軍人呢就由普通的法院來審判那這種情況之下呢就會有發生說這個如果是同一個案件身份不一樣有的是現役軍人有的是這個平民或是剛退役的\n204867\t230558\t那或是說呢發生案件的時間呢有可能是在他當軍人的時候但是呢這個被追溯的時候有可能是在他已經不是軍人了會遇到這種情況所以外界也有聲音說是不是這個除了這個總統他所提到說這個軍事的這一個審判法庭之外在我們的普通法院也設立這個國安的軍事專業法庭那我請教一下部長的意見我想\n235766\t249939\t應該兩個,第一個就是說我們重新打造的軍事審判,重點是在於為這個因為現在還是二元化,所以平戰轉換,所以在平時要建構一個新的軍事審判體系,暫時才能夠有一定的量\n250820\t278568\t那至於在軍事審判之外要不要搭配這個軍法官參審有一個這個國安法庭的一個設計我覺得這個要跟司法院做進行的要一個溝通也就是說如果是要裁掉現在按照國安國家安全法第十九條規定第十九條的規定就是說這個各級的這個法院法官辦理案件的時候呢就要設這個就可以設國安軍事專研法庭啦\n279909\t299655\t他現在就我的了解他是專股然後兼辦他並沒有設置一個專者的一個專業法庭讓部長看一下這是這個司法院所提供的資料他說現在這一個國安軍事專業法庭除了有你剛才這個部長講的這個專股之外\n300575\t322895\t也有專業的法庭這當然是司法院提供的資料 部長知不知道這份資料我知道就是說因為他有這樣子的要求但是現在實際的實現的狀況當然就是我早上已經有說過了因為我們早年在從事這些推動這些專業法庭的時候都會發現事實上有各種各樣的專業法庭有什麼\n325818\t343875\t金融專業法庭各種專業法庭事實上這樣的一個專業法庭它會隨著人員的調動事實上這個專業法庭的專業性事實上是還是有一些質疑不過剛剛委員提到的就是說\n345336\t366434\t除了用軍事審判之外那另外還有一種設計是說他如果違反國安法的相關案件那涉及到退役跟現役軍人或者是其他的民人的時候那是不是在這個國安法庭裡面由交由這個法院來審判這一件事情而且他有可能是交由高等的法院來審判\n367855\t390103\t這一件事情我現在沒有辦法完全的排除但是我們軍事審判的這個制度還是要重新打造那有沒有另外有一個這樣的一個設計的可能性我們要跟史蘭做一個溝通這樣子就是說當然這個軍事的審判法庭那現在要重新打造那另外就是說我剛才所提到就是說在浦東法院\n391003\t407844\t也是一個這個專業的國安的法庭是不是能夠避免我剛所提到就是說因為現在這個不管是共諜案、泄密案等等之類的它違反的有可能是違反國安法違反國安無法違反這個反滲透法那就是由這個國安專業法庭它現在\n409125\t424418\t架構上是會有我稍微跟委員解釋一下就是說他涉犯國安法那如果他也同時因為他通常他一旦涉及國安法他同時應該也會涉及入海公園起碼第二篇的洩密這個等等的部分那\n424938\t439949\t理論上來講犯罪一部是屬於亂供應刑法他就要受軍事審判那但是如果這個部分跟社團協商如果他有一個共犯的概念就是說這個共犯包括了現役軍人包括退役軍人等等這些共犯的部分要不要交給一個\n441070\t465568\t他設了一個軍事專業法庭而這個軍事專業法庭確實是也讓我們的人可以進入一起的話這個部分的設計可能我已經看到有相關的學者提出這個概念就是參審制的概念那我們必須要跟他一起來討論也就是說這樣子的一個參審是比較接近德國制的一種參審而不是一種國民參審\n466949\t482377\t那如果說不是國民參審的話那而是一種專業參審的話那這一個軍法官要不要具有軍法官的資格這個部分都還要跟史懷恩做一個協商這個其實是蠻技術有蠻專業性的這個部分還要跟史懷恩做一個協商\n483897\t507726\t這個提供這個部長做參考主席我再問最後一個問題一分鐘就好了這個按照國防部所提供這個四年期國防總檢討有提到就是說國防預算要爭取到這個GDP的3%以上的目標那請問一下現在是多少我們現在國防預算佔GDP多少大概2.45%左右2.45%對那如果要達3%大概要增加多少\n508513\t519244\t一千多億那這個總統他有提到就是說是不是用這個編列特別預算的方式然後讓國防預算能夠達到3%\n522717\t539867\t因為我們避免都編在年度預算的話會排擠其他各部會的預算的情況之下編列特別預算是一個方式是一個比較可行的方式但是特別預算的一個編列一定要有一個條例要經過大院同意\n540947\t561233\t所以我們現在的問題是在於是說我們要屬於立即應該可以快速獲得的這個部分我們才能夠編列入特別預算所以是哪些項目是我們現在可以立即快速獲得的這個部分然後合乎我們的防衛作戰的實際需要這個部分我們正在審慎的這個研議當中\n565694\t585397\t那部長有來爭取說那這是因為這個稅收高於預期增加這五千多億扣掉地方有三千多億有沒有來爭取在其中的一千億來作為這個特別預算我想這個不是國防部應該要主責的事項這是主計長或者是行政院的權責國防部有沒有爭取我當然最後是由行政院來決定有沒有來爭取\n586619\t600302\t我們爭取的是說按照總統的政策指示到達3%這個目標如何達成那裁員的來源這個要有行政院他來主責好 先問到這邊好了謝謝 謝謝主席 謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請顧部長請部長 謝謝\n是 李委員好來 部長好 辛苦了這個本席請教一下在這個今年的1月12號國安局有公布一個共諜案滲透手法分析然後其中有提到就是說這一個共諜案起訴的人數明顯的上升在2021年是16人到2024年已經到了64人這個成長了4倍\n然後呢 這個國安局也提到說 這個滲透的目標呢 這個包含軍事單位 政府機關 民間協會但是呢 這個現役軍人呢 去年啊 這個現役軍人 這個遭起訴的呢 有28人然後那個退役的軍人呢 遭起訴有15人 總共占這個共諜案起訴的43%\n所以這個現役退役的軍人是中共對台滲透的主要的鎖定對象我不曉得部長有沒有看過國安局的這份報告是 有所以他也透過了五大滲透管道還有四大守法那主要都是針對現役或是退役的軍人比如說勾結黑幫 發展武裝內應\n開設地下錢莊引誘投共利誘公廟吸引軍人刺密成立統戰的組織動員借血還有透過網路勾連部件組織等等那所以呢也因為這樣子所以賴總統這個也\n因應的共諜或是中國境外的敵對勢力影響越來越嚴重所以有一個17項的國安因應策略其中跟國防部比較有相關的應該就是說要恢復軍事審判的制度未來的先移軍人如果是觸犯陸海空軍刑法的軍事犯罪案例交由軍事法院來審判\n那這個其實大家都有在問我今天早上有在聽\n但是呢 這個總統提出來這個在現在如果是現役軍人他如果是犯了軍事的這一個案例之後呢是由這個軍事法庭來審判那有些人也有提出有不同的意見跟看法這個是說因為我們現在的這一個不管是泄密或是共諜案都是很多的這個常態都是軍民共犯\n有軍人也有民間的 民間的也有可能是退役沒多久的先吸收剛退役的軍人 再用他的人脈來滲透現役的軍人洩密叛國像雄三飛彈就是複製這種模式\n那所以呢現在大家的問題在於說呢這個軍民共犯的情況呢那未來如果這個軍事審判呢就是說那現役軍人當然就是軍事審判那如果按照憲法規定的不受軍事審判的非役軍人呢就由普通的法院來審判那這種情況之下呢就會有發生說這個如果是同一個案件身份不一樣有的是現役軍人有的是這個平民或是剛退役的\n那或是說呢發生案件的時間呢有可能是在他當軍人的時候但是呢這個被追溯的時候有可能是在他已經不是軍人了會遇到這種情況所以外界也有聲音說是不是這個除了這個總統他所提到說這個軍事的這一個審判法庭之外在我們的普通法院也設立這個國安的軍事專業法庭那我請教一下部長的意見我想\n應該兩個,第一個就是說我們重新打造的軍事審判,重點是在於為這個因為現在還是二元化,所以平戰轉換,所以在平時要建構一個新的軍事審判體系,暫時才能夠有一定的量\n那至於在軍事審判之外要不要搭配這個軍法官參審有一個這個國安法庭的一個設計我覺得這個要跟司法院做進行的要一個溝通也就是說如果是要裁掉現在按照國安國家安全法第十九條規定第十九條的規定就是說這個各級的這個法院法官辦理案件的時候呢就要設這個就可以設國安軍事專研法庭啦\n他現在就我的了解他是專股然後兼辦他並沒有設置一個專者的一個專業法庭讓部長看一下這是這個司法院所提供的資料他說現在這一個國安軍事專業法庭除了有你剛才這個部長講的這個專股之外\n也有專業的法庭這當然是司法院提供的資料 部長知不知道這份資料我知道就是說因為他有這樣子的要求但是現在實際的實現的狀況當然就是我早上已經有說過了因為我們早年在從事這些推動這些專業法庭的時候都會發現事實上有各種各樣的專業法庭有什麼\n金融專業法庭各種專業法庭事實上這樣的一個專業法庭它會隨著人員的調動事實上這個專業法庭的專業性事實上是還是有一些質疑不過剛剛委員提到的就是說\n除了用軍事審判之外那另外還有一種設計是說他如果違反國安法的相關案件那涉及到退役跟現役軍人或者是其他的民人的時候那是不是在這個國安法庭裡面由交由這個法院來審判這一件事情而且他有可能是交由高等的法院來審判\n這一件事情我現在沒有辦法完全的排除但是我們軍事審判的這個制度還是要重新打造那有沒有另外有一個這樣的一個設計的可能性我們要跟史蘭做一個溝通這樣子就是說當然這個軍事的審判法庭那現在要重新打造那另外就是說我剛才所提到就是說在浦東法院\n也是一個這個專業的國安的法庭是不是能夠避免我剛所提到就是說因為現在這個不管是共諜案、泄密案等等之類的它違反的有可能是違反國安法違反國安無法違反這個反滲透法那就是由這個國安專業法庭它現在\n架構上是會有我稍微跟委員解釋一下就是說他涉犯國安法那如果他也同時因為他通常他一旦涉及國安法他同時應該也會涉及入海公園起碼第二篇的洩密這個等等的部分那\n理論上來講犯罪一部是屬於亂供應刑法他就要受軍事審判那但是如果這個部分跟社團協商如果他有一個共犯的概念就是說這個共犯包括了現役軍人包括退役軍人等等這些共犯的部分要不要交給一個\n他設了一個軍事專業法庭而這個軍事專業法庭確實是也讓我們的人可以進入一起的話這個部分的設計可能我已經看到有相關的學者提出這個概念就是參審制的概念那我們必須要跟他一起來討論也就是說這樣子的一個參審是比較接近德國制的一種參審而不是一種國民參審\n那如果說不是國民參審的話那而是一種專業參審的話那這一個軍法官要不要具有軍法官的資格這個部分都還要跟史懷恩做一個協商這個其實是蠻技術有蠻專業性的這個部分還要跟史懷恩做一個協商\n這個提供這個部長做參考主席我再問最後一個問題一分鐘就好了這個按照國防部所提供這個四年期國防總檢討有提到就是說國防預算要爭取到這個GDP的3%以上的目標那請問一下現在是多少我們現在國防預算佔GDP多少大概2.45%左右2.45%對那如果要達3%大概要增加多少\n一千多億那這個總統他有提到就是說是不是用這個編列特別預算的方式然後讓國防預算能夠達到3%\n因為我們避免都編在年度預算的話會排擠其他各部會的預算的情況之下編列特別預算是一個方式是一個比較可行的方式但是特別預算的一個編列一定要有一個條例要經過大院同意\n所以我們現在的問題是在於是說我們要屬於立即應該可以快速獲得的這個部分我們才能夠編列入特別預算所以是哪些項目是我們現在可以立即快速獲得的這個部分然後合乎我們的防衛作戰的實際需要這個部分我們正在審慎的這個研議當中\n那部長有來爭取說那這是因為這個稅收高於預期增加這五千多億扣掉地方有三千多億有沒有來爭取在其中的一千億來作為這個特別預算我想這個不是國防部應該要主責的事項這是主計長或者是行政院的權責國防部有沒有爭取我當然最後是由行政院來決定有沒有來爭取\n我們爭取的是說按照總統的政策指示到達3%這個目標如何達成那裁員的來源這個要有行政院他來主責好 先問到這邊好了謝謝 謝謝主席 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.672 --> 00:02.321\n謝謝主席我們請顧部長請部長謝謝\n\n00:09.702 --> 00:27.451\n是李委員好來部長好辛苦了這個本席請教一下在這個今年的1月12號國安局有公布一個共諜案滲透手法分析然後其中有提到就是說這一個共諜案起訴的人數明顯的上升在2021年是16人到2024年已經到了64人這個成長了4倍\n\n00:31.713 --> 00:43.659\n然後呢這個國安局也提到說這個滲透的目標呢這個包含軍事單位政府機關民間協會但是呢這個現役軍人呢去年啊這個現役軍人這個遭起訴的呢有28人然後那個退役的軍人呢遭起訴有15人總共占這個共諜案起訴的43%\n\n00:52.944 --> 01:15.038\n所以這個現役退役的軍人是中共對台滲透的主要的鎖定對象我不曉得部長有沒有看過國安局的這份報告是有所以他也透過了五大滲透管道還有四大守法那主要都是針對現役或是退役的軍人比如說勾結黑幫發展武裝內應\n\n01:19.742 --> 01:34.302\n開設地下錢莊引誘投共利誘公廟吸引軍人刺密成立統戰的組織動員借血還有透過網路勾連部件組織等等那所以呢也因為這樣子所以賴總統這個也\n\n01:36.665 --> 02:00.717\n因應的共諜或是中國境外的敵對勢力影響越來越嚴重所以有一個17項的國安因應策略其中跟國防部比較有相關的應該就是說要恢復軍事審判的制度未來的先移軍人如果是觸犯陸海空軍刑法的軍事犯罪案例交由軍事法院來審判\n\n02:02.958 --> 02:06.790\n那這個其實大家都有在問我今天早上有在聽\n\n02:07.694 --> 02:35.025\n但是呢這個總統提出來這個在現在如果是現役軍人他如果是犯了軍事的這一個案例之後呢是由這個軍事法庭來審判那有些人也有提出有不同的意見跟看法這個是說因為我們現在的這一個不管是泄密或是共諜案都是很多的這個常態都是軍民共犯\n\n02:36.105 --> 02:49.274\n有軍人也有民間的民間的也有可能是退役沒多久的先吸收剛退役的軍人再用他的人脈來滲透現役的軍人洩密叛國像雄三飛彈就是複製這種模式\n\n02:56.218 --> 03:20.946\n那所以呢現在大家的問題在於說呢這個軍民共犯的情況呢那未來如果這個軍事審判呢就是說那現役軍人當然就是軍事審判那如果按照憲法規定的不受軍事審判的非役軍人呢就由普通的法院來審判那這種情況之下呢就會有發生說這個如果是同一個案件身份不一樣有的是現役軍人有的是這個平民或是剛退役的\n\n03:24.867 --> 03:50.558\n那或是說呢發生案件的時間呢有可能是在他當軍人的時候但是呢這個被追溯的時候有可能是在他已經不是軍人了會遇到這種情況所以外界也有聲音說是不是這個除了這個總統他所提到說這個軍事的這一個審判法庭之外在我們的普通法院也設立這個國安的軍事專業法庭那我請教一下部長的意見我想\n\n03:55.766 --> 04:09.939\n應該兩個,第一個就是說我們重新打造的軍事審判,重點是在於為這個因為現在還是二元化,所以平戰轉換,所以在平時要建構一個新的軍事審判體系,暫時才能夠有一定的量\n\n04:10.820 --> 04:38.568\n那至於在軍事審判之外要不要搭配這個軍法官參審有一個這個國安法庭的一個設計我覺得這個要跟司法院做進行的要一個溝通也就是說如果是要裁掉現在按照國安國家安全法第十九條規定第十九條的規定就是說這個各級的這個法院法官辦理案件的時候呢就要設這個就可以設國安軍事專研法庭啦\n\n04:39.909 --> 04:59.655\n他現在就我的了解他是專股然後兼辦他並沒有設置一個專者的一個專業法庭讓部長看一下這是這個司法院所提供的資料他說現在這一個國安軍事專業法庭除了有你剛才這個部長講的這個專股之外\n\n05:00.575 --> 05:22.895\n也有專業的法庭這當然是司法院提供的資料部長知不知道這份資料我知道就是說因為他有這樣子的要求但是現在實際的實現的狀況當然就是我早上已經有說過了因為我們早年在從事這些推動這些專業法庭的時候都會發現事實上有各種各樣的專業法庭有什麼\n\n05:25.818 --> 05:43.875\n金融專業法庭各種專業法庭事實上這樣的一個專業法庭它會隨著人員的調動事實上這個專業法庭的專業性事實上是還是有一些質疑不過剛剛委員提到的就是說\n\n05:45.336 --> 06:06.434\n除了用軍事審判之外那另外還有一種設計是說他如果違反國安法的相關案件那涉及到退役跟現役軍人或者是其他的民人的時候那是不是在這個國安法庭裡面由交由這個法院來審判這一件事情而且他有可能是交由高等的法院來審判\n\n06:07.855 --> 06:30.103\n這一件事情我現在沒有辦法完全的排除但是我們軍事審判的這個制度還是要重新打造那有沒有另外有一個這樣的一個設計的可能性我們要跟史蘭做一個溝通這樣子就是說當然這個軍事的審判法庭那現在要重新打造那另外就是說我剛才所提到就是說在浦東法院\n\n06:31.003 --> 06:47.844\n也是一個這個專業的國安的法庭是不是能夠避免我剛所提到就是說因為現在這個不管是共諜案、泄密案等等之類的它違反的有可能是違反國安法違反國安無法違反這個反滲透法那就是由這個國安專業法庭它現在\n\n06:49.125 --> 07:04.418\n架構上是會有我稍微跟委員解釋一下就是說他涉犯國安法那如果他也同時因為他通常他一旦涉及國安法他同時應該也會涉及入海公園起碼第二篇的洩密這個等等的部分那\n\n07:04.938 --> 07:19.949\n理論上來講犯罪一部是屬於亂供應刑法他就要受軍事審判那但是如果這個部分跟社團協商如果他有一個共犯的概念就是說這個共犯包括了現役軍人包括退役軍人等等這些共犯的部分要不要交給一個\n\n07:21.070 --> 07:45.568\n他設了一個軍事專業法庭而這個軍事專業法庭確實是也讓我們的人可以進入一起的話這個部分的設計可能我已經看到有相關的學者提出這個概念就是參審制的概念那我們必須要跟他一起來討論也就是說這樣子的一個參審是比較接近德國制的一種參審而不是一種國民參審\n\n07:46.949 --> 08:02.377\n那如果說不是國民參審的話那而是一種專業參審的話那這一個軍法官要不要具有軍法官的資格這個部分都還要跟史懷恩做一個協商這個其實是蠻技術有蠻專業性的這個部分還要跟史懷恩做一個協商\n\n08:03.897 --> 08:27.726\n這個提供這個部長做參考主席我再問最後一個問題一分鐘就好了這個按照國防部所提供這個四年期國防總檢討有提到就是說國防預算要爭取到這個GDP的3%以上的目標那請問一下現在是多少我們現在國防預算佔GDP多少大概2.45%左右2.45%對那如果要達3%大概要增加多少\n\n08:28.513 --> 08:39.244\n一千多億那這個總統他有提到就是說是不是用這個編列特別預算的方式然後讓國防預算能夠達到3%\n\n08:42.717 --> 08:59.867\n因為我們避免都編在年度預算的話會排擠其他各部會的預算的情況之下編列特別預算是一個方式是一個比較可行的方式但是特別預算的一個編列一定要有一個條例要經過大院同意\n\n09:00.947 --> 09:21.233\n所以我們現在的問題是在於是說我們要屬於立即應該可以快速獲得的這個部分我們才能夠編列入特別預算所以是哪些項目是我們現在可以立即快速獲得的這個部分然後合乎我們的防衛作戰的實際需要這個部分我們正在審慎的這個研議當中\n\n09:25.694 --> 09:45.397\n那部長有來爭取說那這是因為這個稅收高於預期增加這五千多億扣掉地方有三千多億有沒有來爭取在其中的一千億來作為這個特別預算我想這個不是國防部應該要主責的事項這是主計長或者是行政院的權責國防部有沒有爭取我當然最後是由行政院來決定有沒有來爭取\n\n09:46.619 --> 10:00.302\n我們爭取的是說按照總統的政策指示到達3%這個目標如何達成那裁員的來源這個要有行政院他來主責好先問到這邊好了謝謝謝謝主席謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.672,"end":2.321,"text":"謝謝主席我們請顧部長請部長 謝謝"},{"start":9.702,"end":27.451,"text":"是 李委員好來 部長好 辛苦了這個本席請教一下在這個今年的1月12號國安局有公布一個共諜案滲透手法分析然後其中有提到就是說這一個共諜案起訴的人數明顯的上升在2021年是16人到2024年已經到了64人這個成長了4倍"},{"start":31.713,"end":43.659,"text":"然後呢 這個國安局也提到說 這個滲透的目標呢 這個包含軍事單位 政府機關 民間協會但是呢 這個現役軍人呢 去年啊 這個現役軍人 這個遭起訴的呢 有28人然後那個退役的軍人呢 遭起訴有15人 總共占這個共諜案起訴的43%"},{"start":52.944,"end":75.038,"text":"所以這個現役退役的軍人是中共對台滲透的主要的鎖定對象我不曉得部長有沒有看過國安局的這份報告是 有所以他也透過了五大滲透管道還有四大守法那主要都是針對現役或是退役的軍人比如說勾結黑幫 發展武裝內應"},{"start":79.742,"end":94.302,"text":"開設地下錢莊引誘投共利誘公廟吸引軍人刺密成立統戰的組織動員借血還有透過網路勾連部件組織等等那所以呢也因為這樣子所以賴總統這個也"},{"start":96.665,"end":120.717,"text":"因應的共諜或是中國境外的敵對勢力影響越來越嚴重所以有一個17項的國安因應策略其中跟國防部比較有相關的應該就是說要恢復軍事審判的制度未來的先移軍人如果是觸犯陸海空軍刑法的軍事犯罪案例交由軍事法院來審判"},{"start":122.958,"end":126.79,"text":"那這個其實大家都有在問我今天早上有在聽"},{"start":127.694,"end":155.025,"text":"但是呢 這個總統提出來這個在現在如果是現役軍人他如果是犯了軍事的這一個案例之後呢是由這個軍事法庭來審判那有些人也有提出有不同的意見跟看法這個是說因為我們現在的這一個不管是泄密或是共諜案都是很多的這個常態都是軍民共犯"},{"start":156.105,"end":169.274,"text":"有軍人也有民間的 民間的也有可能是退役沒多久的先吸收剛退役的軍人 再用他的人脈來滲透現役的軍人洩密叛國像雄三飛彈就是複製這種模式"},{"start":176.218,"end":200.946,"text":"那所以呢現在大家的問題在於說呢這個軍民共犯的情況呢那未來如果這個軍事審判呢就是說那現役軍人當然就是軍事審判那如果按照憲法規定的不受軍事審判的非役軍人呢就由普通的法院來審判那這種情況之下呢就會有發生說這個如果是同一個案件身份不一樣有的是現役軍人有的是這個平民或是剛退役的"},{"start":204.867,"end":230.558,"text":"那或是說呢發生案件的時間呢有可能是在他當軍人的時候但是呢這個被追溯的時候有可能是在他已經不是軍人了會遇到這種情況所以外界也有聲音說是不是這個除了這個總統他所提到說這個軍事的這一個審判法庭之外在我們的普通法院也設立這個國安的軍事專業法庭那我請教一下部長的意見我想"},{"start":235.766,"end":249.939,"text":"應該兩個,第一個就是說我們重新打造的軍事審判,重點是在於為這個因為現在還是二元化,所以平戰轉換,所以在平時要建構一個新的軍事審判體系,暫時才能夠有一定的量"},{"start":250.82,"end":278.568,"text":"那至於在軍事審判之外要不要搭配這個軍法官參審有一個這個國安法庭的一個設計我覺得這個要跟司法院做進行的要一個溝通也就是說如果是要裁掉現在按照國安國家安全法第十九條規定第十九條的規定就是說這個各級的這個法院法官辦理案件的時候呢就要設這個就可以設國安軍事專研法庭啦"},{"start":279.909,"end":299.655,"text":"他現在就我的了解他是專股然後兼辦他並沒有設置一個專者的一個專業法庭讓部長看一下這是這個司法院所提供的資料他說現在這一個國安軍事專業法庭除了有你剛才這個部長講的這個專股之外"},{"start":300.575,"end":322.895,"text":"也有專業的法庭這當然是司法院提供的資料 部長知不知道這份資料我知道就是說因為他有這樣子的要求但是現在實際的實現的狀況當然就是我早上已經有說過了因為我們早年在從事這些推動這些專業法庭的時候都會發現事實上有各種各樣的專業法庭有什麼"},{"start":325.818,"end":343.875,"text":"金融專業法庭各種專業法庭事實上這樣的一個專業法庭它會隨著人員的調動事實上這個專業法庭的專業性事實上是還是有一些質疑不過剛剛委員提到的就是說"},{"start":345.336,"end":366.434,"text":"除了用軍事審判之外那另外還有一種設計是說他如果違反國安法的相關案件那涉及到退役跟現役軍人或者是其他的民人的時候那是不是在這個國安法庭裡面由交由這個法院來審判這一件事情而且他有可能是交由高等的法院來審判"},{"start":367.855,"end":390.103,"text":"這一件事情我現在沒有辦法完全的排除但是我們軍事審判的這個制度還是要重新打造那有沒有另外有一個這樣的一個設計的可能性我們要跟史蘭做一個溝通這樣子就是說當然這個軍事的審判法庭那現在要重新打造那另外就是說我剛才所提到就是說在浦東法院"},{"start":391.003,"end":407.844,"text":"也是一個這個專業的國安的法庭是不是能夠避免我剛所提到就是說因為現在這個不管是共諜案、泄密案等等之類的它違反的有可能是違反國安法違反國安無法違反這個反滲透法那就是由這個國安專業法庭它現在"},{"start":409.125,"end":424.418,"text":"架構上是會有我稍微跟委員解釋一下就是說他涉犯國安法那如果他也同時因為他通常他一旦涉及國安法他同時應該也會涉及入海公園起碼第二篇的洩密這個等等的部分那"},{"start":424.938,"end":439.949,"text":"理論上來講犯罪一部是屬於亂供應刑法他就要受軍事審判那但是如果這個部分跟社團協商如果他有一個共犯的概念就是說這個共犯包括了現役軍人包括退役軍人等等這些共犯的部分要不要交給一個"},{"start":441.07,"end":465.568,"text":"他設了一個軍事專業法庭而這個軍事專業法庭確實是也讓我們的人可以進入一起的話這個部分的設計可能我已經看到有相關的學者提出這個概念就是參審制的概念那我們必須要跟他一起來討論也就是說這樣子的一個參審是比較接近德國制的一種參審而不是一種國民參審"},{"start":466.949,"end":482.377,"text":"那如果說不是國民參審的話那而是一種專業參審的話那這一個軍法官要不要具有軍法官的資格這個部分都還要跟史懷恩做一個協商這個其實是蠻技術有蠻專業性的這個部分還要跟史懷恩做一個協商"},{"start":483.897,"end":507.726,"text":"這個提供這個部長做參考主席我再問最後一個問題一分鐘就好了這個按照國防部所提供這個四年期國防總檢討有提到就是說國防預算要爭取到這個GDP的3%以上的目標那請問一下現在是多少我們現在國防預算佔GDP多少大概2.45%左右2.45%對那如果要達3%大概要增加多少"},{"start":508.513,"end":519.244,"text":"一千多億那這個總統他有提到就是說是不是用這個編列特別預算的方式然後讓國防預算能夠達到3%"},{"start":522.717,"end":539.867,"text":"因為我們避免都編在年度預算的話會排擠其他各部會的預算的情況之下編列特別預算是一個方式是一個比較可行的方式但是特別預算的一個編列一定要有一個條例要經過大院同意"},{"start":540.947,"end":561.233,"text":"所以我們現在的問題是在於是說我們要屬於立即應該可以快速獲得的這個部分我們才能夠編列入特別預算所以是哪些項目是我們現在可以立即快速獲得的這個部分然後合乎我們的防衛作戰的實際需要這個部分我們正在審慎的這個研議當中"},{"start":565.694,"end":585.397,"text":"那部長有來爭取說那這是因為這個稅收高於預期增加這五千多億扣掉地方有三千多億有沒有來爭取在其中的一千億來作為這個特別預算我想這個不是國防部應該要主責的事項這是主計長或者是行政院的權責國防部有沒有爭取我當然最後是由行政院來決定有沒有來爭取"},{"start":586.619,"end":600.302,"text":"我們爭取的是說按照總統的政策指示到達3%這個目標如何達成那裁員的來源這個要有行政院他來主責好 先問到這邊好了謝謝 謝謝主席 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":728,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（12時6分）謝謝主席。請顧部長。"],["主席：請部長，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：李委員好。"],["李委員坤城：部長好，辛苦了。我請教一下，今年1月12日國安局公布共諜案滲透手法分析，其中有提到共諜案起訴人數明顯上升，2021年是16人，2024年是64人，成長4倍，國安局也提到滲透目標包含軍事單位、政府機關、民間協會。但是現役軍人呢？去年現役軍人遭起訴的有28人，退役軍人遭起訴的有15人，總共占共諜案起訴人數的43%，所以現役、退役的軍人是中共對臺滲透的主要鎖定對象。部長有沒有看過國安局這份報告？"],["顧部長立雄：是，有。"],["李委員坤城：他們是透過五大滲透管道和四大手法，主要都是針對現役或是退役軍人，比如勾結黑幫發展武裝內應，開設地下錢莊引誘投共，利用宮廟吸引軍人刺密，成立統戰組織動員介選，還有透過網路勾聯佈建組織等等。也因為這樣，所以賴總統為了因應共諜，或是因應中國境外的敵對勢力，因為影響越來越嚴重，所以提出17項國安因應策略，其中和國防部比較相關的，應該就是恢復軍事審判制度，未來現役軍人如果觸犯陸海空軍刑法的軍事犯罪案例，就要由軍事法院審判。","關於這個部分，其實大家都在問，我今天早上也有聽了，但總統提出來的是，如果是現役軍人犯了軍事案例是由軍事法庭審判。但有些人也提出不同的意見和看法，因為現在不管是泄密或是共諜案，常態都是軍民共犯，有軍人，也有民間的，民間的也有可能是剛退役沒多久，就是先吸收剛退役的軍人，再用他的人脈滲透現役軍人洩密叛國，像雄三飛彈就是複製這種模式。","所以現在大家的問題在於，以軍民共犯的情況來看，未來如果是軍事審判，現役軍人當然就是軍事審判，但是按照憲法的規定，不受軍事審判的非現役軍人呢？就由普通法院審判。在這種情況之下，就會發生同一個案件，因為身分不一樣，有的是現役軍人，有的是平民或是剛退役的，或者發生案件的時間不同，有可能是在他當軍人的時候，但是被追訴的時候，可能，已經不是軍人了，會遇到這種情況。","所以外界也有聲音，是不是除了總統提到的軍事審判法庭之外，在普通法院也設立國安的軍事專業法庭，本席想請教一下部長的意見。"],["顧部長立雄：應該是兩個面向，第一個就是重新打造軍事審判，因為現在還是二元化，是平戰轉換，所以平時要建構一個新的軍事審判體系，戰時才能夠有一定的量能。至於在軍事審判之外，要不要搭配軍法官參審，形成一個國安法庭的設計，我覺得這要和司法院進行溝通。也就是說，如果要採這樣……"],["李委員坤城：部長，現在按照國家安全法第十九條規定，各級法院法官辦理案件的時候就可以設國安軍事專業法庭。"],["顧部長立雄：就我現在的了解，它是專股、兼辦，並沒有設置專業法庭。"],["李委員坤城：請部長看一下，這是司法院提供的資料。它說現在這個國安軍事專業法庭，除了剛才部長說的專股之外，也有專業的法庭，這是司法院提供的資料。部長知不知道這份資料？"],["顧部長立雄：對，我知道，因為它有這樣的要求嘛！但是現在考量到實際的狀況，我早上已經說過，因為我們早年在推動這些專業法庭的時候發現，事實上有各種各樣的專業法庭，例如金融專業法庭等等，這樣的專業法庭會隨著人員的調動，專業性……"],["李委員坤城：就不專業？"],["顧部長立雄：還是會有一些質疑。不過剛剛委員提到的，除了用軍事審判之外，另外還有一種設計，如果違反國安法的相關案件涉及退役和現役軍人，或者是其他民人的時候，是不是在這個國安法庭裡面，交由法院來審判這件事情，而且有可能是交由高等法院審判，這件事情，我現在沒有辦法完全排除，但是軍事審判這個制度還是要重新打造。至於有沒有另外一個設計的可能性？我們要和司法院溝通。"],["李委員坤城：當然，現在要重新打造軍事審判法庭，另外就是本席剛才提到的，在普通法院也設一個專業的國安法庭，這樣是不是能夠避免剛才提到的問題？因為現在不管是共諜案、洩密案等等，他有可能是違反國安法、國安五法或反滲透法，所以由國安專業法庭審理，現在架構上會有……"],["顧部長立雄：我稍微向委員解釋一下，通常他一旦涉及國安法，應該同時也會涉及陸海空軍刑法第二編的洩密等部分，就理論上來說，因為這屬於陸海空軍刑法的範疇，所以他就要受軍事審判。如果就這個部分和司法院協商，因為有一個共犯的概念，這個共犯包括現役軍人、退役軍人等等，這些共犯要不要交給另設的軍事專業法庭？這個軍事專業法庭是否也能讓我們的人一起參與？這個部分的設計，我已經看到有相關學者提出這個概念。"],["李委員坤城：這是參審制的概念。"],["顧部長立雄：我們必須要和他們一起討論。也就是說，這樣的參審是比較接近德國制的參審，而不是國民參審，如果不是國民參審，而是一種專業參審的話，這個軍法官要不要具有軍法官的資格？這些都還要和司法院協商。其實這部分關係到技術方面和專業性，這個部分還要和司法院協商啦！"],["李委員坤城：這個意見提供部長參考。主席，本席再問最後一個問題，1分鐘就好。按照國防部提供的四年期國防總檢討，有提到國防預算要爭取到GDP3%以上的目標，請問一下現在國防預算占多少？"],["顧部長立雄：大概2.45%左右。"],["李委員坤城：如果要達到3%，大概要增加多少？"],["顧部長立雄：一千多億元。"],["李委員坤城：總統有提到，是不是以編列特別預算的方式，讓國防預算能夠達到3%。"],["顧部長立雄：要避免都編列在年度預算，是因為這樣會排擠其他部會的預算，所以編列特別預算是一個比較可行的方式。但是編列特別預算一定要有一個條例，要經過大院同意，所以我們現在的問題是在於，必須是屬於立即、應該可以快速獲得的部分，才能夠編入特別預算，所以哪些項目是現在可以立即、快速獲得的，也合乎我們防衛作戰的實際需要，這個部分我們正在審慎研議當中。"],["李委員坤城：這次因為稅收高於預期，增加了五千多億元，扣掉地方的三千多億元，你們有沒有爭取其中的1,000億元做為特別預算？"],["顧部長立雄：我想這不是國防部應該主責的事項，這是主計長或者是行政院的權責。"],["李委員坤城：本席是問國防部有沒有爭取？當然，最後是由行政院決定。有沒有爭取？"],["顧部長立雄：我們爭取的是，按照總統的政策指示達到3%這個目標如何達成。至於財源，這部分要由行政院主責。"],["李委員坤城：好，先問到這邊好了。謝謝！謝謝主席，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝李委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請邱志偉委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":316,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-4","speakers":["沈伯洋","羅美玲","馬文君","王定宇","陳冠廷","黃仁","陳永康","林楚茵","翁曉玲","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","張啓楷","徐巧芯","李坤城","邱志偉","蔡易餘","林憶君","蘇清泉","王鴻薇"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-03-19"],"gazette_id":"1142801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142801_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況暨「四年期國防總檢討」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142801_00016"}}}