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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 420.933, \"end\": 421.153, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 421.153, \"end\": 421.574, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 421.574, \"end\": 421.754, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 421.754, \"end\": 421.774, \"score\": 0.305}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,362 --> 00:00:10,444\n謝謝主席,有請國發會劉主委\n\n2\n00:00:21,781 --> 00:00:36,874\n主委午安在氣候變遷因應法的第三條有提到公正轉型裡頭呢有提到援助民族那這個公正轉型的定義呢如果根據OECD它的解釋就是說永續的就業產業以及經濟形態進行審慎的計畫與投資\n\n3\n00:00:45,962 --> 00:01:03,852\n那我也知道國發會是負責就是中央各部會學者專家民間團體公民參與機制收整的意見訂修之後提交給國發會由國發會整合為國家公正轉型的行動計畫那我在1月14號\n\n4\n00:01:05,453 --> 00:01:34,251\n我跟國發會經濟部能源署有受邀環境權保障基金會的一個邀請就是出席一個叫做台灣原住民族與地熱的論壇那整個結論就是說希望比照歐美紐澳等國來爭取原住民族地區能源開發的第一桶金然後也希望台灣應該要有原住民的地熱政策請教諸位\n\n5\n00:01:34,611 --> 00:01:37,272\n您覺得這個您贊同嗎這我個人是贊同的好謝謝那我看一下我其實在上一次我有質詢過經濟部那當時有一個案例就是在台東的金輪這個小小的地方有四處就是民間地熱發電廠\n\n6\n00:01:57,943 --> 00:02:26,448\n來去做專探來做投資而且他選擇的全部都是私有地那我們姑且不論他是不是為了要規避公有地要做部落諮商同意但是我有根據當時地方的一個訴求也跟經濟部來表達說應該針對部落諮商同意要有一個行政指引也要有一個爭端協調平台然後呢要有政府投資部落入股\n\n7\n00:02:27,108 --> 00:02:42,956\n以及地熱專區的試辦點辦理公聽會以及新型態的一種夥伴關係的討論那這個部分其實需要錢所以呢我們也就看了一下在我們主責的這個已經有看到\n\n8\n00:02:43,516 --> 00:03:02,412\n在2023年已經匡列了338億多來做公正轉型的一個裁員可是我們看了一下發現說這個地熱是把它歸類到第三項叫做前瞻能源它的公正轉型預算是0理由是說\n\n9\n00:03:04,013 --> 00:03:22,701\n這個已經納入戰略規劃未令編列公正轉型預算喔好那我們再來看看國發基金我們發現關於綠能的部分63項到68項大概都是水利啊太陽能啊電池啊也是沒有地熱好\n\n10\n00:03:24,002 --> 00:03:42,991\n那在這裡我就要特別看了那提到說已經列入戰略行動計畫那戰略行動計畫呢我們看到在前瞻能源因為地熱被歸類到這邊他是提到說要建立原住民利益共享機制單一的窗口再生能源發展條例的訂定增訂地熱專章促進就業機會因此我們來看一下這個\n\n11\n00:03:48,474 --> 00:03:56,681\n你們提到的原住民利益共享機制就是提到說2022年這個賺購費率新增原住民的利益然後費率加成1%那我們看這些民間他是怎麼樣去做所謂的利益共享\n\n12\n00:04:03,726 --> 00:04:28,861\n部落的辦理收穫季他就去捐個10箱啤酒啊20箱個水這樣的一個贊助機制也許這個就是大家想像的利益共享機制那第二個呢我們來看一下提到你們說再生能源發展條例要增訂地熱專章但是只有提到公有土地但實際上大家都在討論地熱它不屬於私有地主它是一個共享的資源\n\n13\n00:04:30,182 --> 00:04:46,993\n再來第三個戰略就是說要單一窗口但實際上我們需要的是政府業者部落融資的四方合作平台來做部落投資部落入股因為在國外就是做這樣的公正轉型基金然後呢去促進民間投資公正轉型\n\n14\n00:04:48,313 --> 00:05:04,102\n那再來第四個問題你們說要促進就業但是這樣的一個所謂的促進就業就是怎麼樣吸引外來的業者但是呢當地就業人才的培育而不是說在自己的土地上做低薪的勞工我要說的是這個種種\n\n15\n00:05:05,683 --> 00:05:27,093\n其實都有很多是我們自己在辦公室的想像但是我很高興因為我有看到夜報說要提到做治理沙盒其中一項就是地熱發電所以呢主委我在這個地方因為時間很短我就是希望說能夠把這個沙盒去加入做部落回饋機制的一個沙盒計畫還有部落投資入股\n\n16\n00:05:31,135 --> 00:05:36,200\n私有地開發部落同意之際的一個機會為什麼這樣說因為部落公法人原民會也在院長的同意之下今年已經開始選定一些部落要來做部落公法人那這是一個很好的機會那另外呢我也是希望說再怎麼樣我們都希望提出一個地熱公正轉型尤其是對原住民族地區的一個具體工作項目\n\n17\n00:05:55,738 --> 00:06:09,608\n還有呢所謂的國發會國發基金編列地熱的公正轉型的預算那因為時間很短我也沒有辦法提供充裕的時間請您來回答但是我是希望說4月1號我們在那一次的論壇有說要辦一個公聽會所以呢我們也\n\n18\n00:06:14,411 --> 00:06:41,597\n我也言出必行所以在4月1號我們會在立法院辦理一個地熱的公聽會那我希望說那個時候國發會能夠針對這些問題能夠有做出一個好的回應可以嗎好的我想我們會請我們團隊到您辦公室我們具體討論先來做一個討論是不是對因為這個這個其實地熱是我當時我是我放進來的謝謝那主要是在永續會的時候有些委員提出來我覺得這個意見是蠻好的\n\n19\n00:06:43,177 --> 00:07:01,774\n那因為我們未來在地熱的發展是一個主要的方向是我想說把這件事放進來也許會讓事情的推動更容易非常感謝所以我會請我們的團隊規劃一下我們再跟您報告好謝謝主委您做出這樣的態度謝謝您也謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9362\t10444\t謝謝主席,有請國發會劉主委\n21781\t36874\t主委午安在氣候變遷因應法的第三條有提到公正轉型裡頭呢有提到援助民族那這個公正轉型的定義呢如果根據OECD它的解釋就是說永續的就業產業以及經濟形態進行審慎的計畫與投資\n45962\t63852\t那我也知道國發會是負責就是中央各部會學者專家民間團體公民參與機制收整的意見訂修之後提交給國發會由國發會整合為國家公正轉型的行動計畫那我在1月14號\n65453\t94251\t我跟國發會經濟部能源署有受邀環境權保障基金會的一個邀請就是出席一個叫做台灣原住民族與地熱的論壇那整個結論就是說希望比照歐美紐澳等國來爭取原住民族地區能源開發的第一桶金然後也希望台灣應該要有原住民的地熱政策請教 諸位\n94611\t97272\t您覺得這個您贊同嗎這我個人是贊同的好 謝謝那我看一下我其實在上一次我有質詢過經濟部那當時有一個案例就是在台東的金輪這個小小的地方有四處就是民間地熱發電廠\n117943\t146448\t來去做專探來做投資而且他選擇的全部都是私有地那我們姑且不論他是不是為了要規避公有地要做部落諮商同意但是我有根據當時地方的一個訴求也跟經濟部來表達說應該針對部落諮商同意要有一個行政指引也要有一個爭端協調平台然後呢要有政府投資部落入股\n147108\t162956\t以及地熱專區的試辦點辦理公聽會以及新型態的一種夥伴關係的討論那這個部分其實需要錢所以呢我們也就看了一下在我們主責的這個已經有看到\n163516\t182412\t在2023年已經匡列了338億多來做公正轉型的一個裁員可是我們看了一下發現說這個地熱是把它歸類到第三項叫做前瞻能源它的公正轉型預算是0理由是說\n184013\t202701\t這個已經納入戰略規劃未令編列公正轉型預算喔好那我們再來看看國發基金我們發現關於綠能的部分63項到68項大概都是水利啊太陽能啊電池啊也是沒有地熱好\n204002\t222991\t那在這裡我就要特別看了那提到說已經列入戰略行動計畫那戰略行動計畫呢我們看到在前瞻能源因為地熱被歸類到這邊他是提到說要建立原住民利益共享機制單一的窗口再生能源發展條例的訂定增訂地熱專章促進就業機會因此我們來看一下這個\n228474\t236681\t你們提到的原住民利益共享機制就是提到說2022年這個賺購費率新增原住民的利益然後費率加成1%那我們看這些民間他是怎麼樣去做所謂的利益共享\n243726\t268861\t部落的辦理收穫季他就去捐個10箱啤酒啊20箱個水這樣的一個贊助機制也許這個就是大家想像的利益共享機制那第二個呢我們來看一下提到你們說再生能源發展條例要增訂地熱專章但是只有提到公有土地但實際上大家都在討論地熱它不屬於私有地主它是一個共享的資源\n270182\t286993\t再來第三個戰略就是說要單一窗口但實際上我們需要的是政府業者部落融資的四方合作平台來做部落投資部落入股因為在國外就是做這樣的公正轉型基金然後呢去促進民間投資公正轉型\n288313\t304102\t那再來第四個問題你們說要促進就業但是這樣的一個所謂的促進就業就是怎麼樣吸引外來的業者但是呢當地就業人才的培育而不是說在自己的土地上做低薪的勞工我要說的是這個種種\n305683\t327093\t其實都有很多是我們自己在辦公室的想像但是我很高興因為我有看到夜報說要提到做治理沙盒其中一項就是地熱發電所以呢 主委我在這個地方因為時間很短我就是希望說能夠把這個沙盒去加入做部落回饋機制的一個沙盒計畫還有部落投資入股\n331135\t336200\t私有地開發部落同意之際的一個機會為什麼這樣說因為部落公法人原民會也在院長的同意之下今年已經開始選定一些部落要來做部落公法人那這是一個很好的機會那另外呢我也是希望說再怎麼樣我們都希望提出一個地熱公正轉型尤其是對原住民族地區的一個具體工作項目\n355738\t369608\t還有呢所謂的國發會國發基金編列地熱的公正轉型的預算那因為時間很短我也沒有辦法提供充裕的時間請您來回答但是我是希望說4月1號我們在那一次的論壇有說要辦一個公聽會所以呢我們也\n374411\t401597\t我也言出必行所以在4月1號我們會在立法院辦理一個地熱的公聽會那我希望說那個時候國發會能夠針對這些問題能夠有做出一個好的回應可以嗎好的我想我們會請我們團隊到您辦公室我們具體討論先來做一個討論是不是對因為這個這個其實地熱是我當時我是我放進來的謝謝那主要是在永續會的時候有些委員提出來我覺得這個意見是蠻好的\n403177\t421774\t那因為我們未來在地熱的發展是一個主要的方向是我想說把這件事放進來也許會讓事情的推動更容易非常感謝所以我會請我們的團隊規劃一下我們再跟您報告好 謝謝主委您做出這樣的態度謝謝您也謝謝主席謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請國發會劉主委\n主委午安在氣候變遷因應法的第三條有提到公正轉型裡頭呢有提到援助民族那這個公正轉型的定義呢如果根據OECD它的解釋就是說永續的就業產業以及經濟形態進行審慎的計畫與投資\n那我也知道國發會是負責就是中央各部會學者專家民間團體公民參與機制收整的意見訂修之後提交給國發會由國發會整合為國家公正轉型的行動計畫那我在1月14號\n我跟國發會經濟部能源署有受邀環境權保障基金會的一個邀請就是出席一個叫做台灣原住民族與地熱的論壇那整個結論就是說希望比照歐美紐澳等國來爭取原住民族地區能源開發的第一桶金然後也希望台灣應該要有原住民的地熱政策請教 諸位\n您覺得這個您贊同嗎這我個人是贊同的好 謝謝那我看一下我其實在上一次我有質詢過經濟部那當時有一個案例就是在台東的金輪這個小小的地方有四處就是民間地熱發電廠\n來去做專探來做投資而且他選擇的全部都是私有地那我們姑且不論他是不是為了要規避公有地要做部落諮商同意但是我有根據當時地方的一個訴求也跟經濟部來表達說應該針對部落諮商同意要有一個行政指引也要有一個爭端協調平台然後呢要有政府投資部落入股\n以及地熱專區的試辦點辦理公聽會以及新型態的一種夥伴關係的討論那這個部分其實需要錢所以呢我們也就看了一下在我們主責的這個已經有看到\n在2023年已經匡列了338億多來做公正轉型的一個裁員可是我們看了一下發現說這個地熱是把它歸類到第三項叫做前瞻能源它的公正轉型預算是0理由是說\n這個已經納入戰略規劃未令編列公正轉型預算喔好那我們再來看看國發基金我們發現關於綠能的部分63項到68項大概都是水利啊太陽能啊電池啊也是沒有地熱好\n那在這裡我就要特別看了那提到說已經列入戰略行動計畫那戰略行動計畫呢我們看到在前瞻能源因為地熱被歸類到這邊他是提到說要建立原住民利益共享機制單一的窗口再生能源發展條例的訂定增訂地熱專章促進就業機會因此我們來看一下這個\n你們提到的原住民利益共享機制就是提到說2022年這個賺購費率新增原住民的利益然後費率加成1%那我們看這些民間他是怎麼樣去做所謂的利益共享\n部落的辦理收穫季他就去捐個10箱啤酒啊20箱個水這樣的一個贊助機制也許這個就是大家想像的利益共享機制那第二個呢我們來看一下提到你們說再生能源發展條例要增訂地熱專章但是只有提到公有土地但實際上大家都在討論地熱它不屬於私有地主它是一個共享的資源\n再來第三個戰略就是說要單一窗口但實際上我們需要的是政府業者部落融資的四方合作平台來做部落投資部落入股因為在國外就是做這樣的公正轉型基金然後呢去促進民間投資公正轉型\n那再來第四個問題你們說要促進就業但是這樣的一個所謂的促進就業就是怎麼樣吸引外來的業者但是呢當地就業人才的培育而不是說在自己的土地上做低薪的勞工我要說的是這個種種\n其實都有很多是我們自己在辦公室的想像但是我很高興因為我有看到夜報說要提到做治理沙盒其中一項就是地熱發電所以呢 主委我在這個地方因為時間很短我就是希望說能夠把這個沙盒去加入做部落回饋機制的一個沙盒計畫還有部落投資入股\n私有地開發部落同意之際的一個機會為什麼這樣說因為部落公法人原民會也在院長的同意之下今年已經開始選定一些部落要來做部落公法人那這是一個很好的機會那另外呢我也是希望說再怎麼樣我們都希望提出一個地熱公正轉型尤其是對原住民族地區的一個具體工作項目\n還有呢所謂的國發會國發基金編列地熱的公正轉型的預算那因為時間很短我也沒有辦法提供充裕的時間請您來回答但是我是希望說4月1號我們在那一次的論壇有說要辦一個公聽會所以呢我們也\n我也言出必行所以在4月1號我們會在立法院辦理一個地熱的公聽會那我希望說那個時候國發會能夠針對這些問題能夠有做出一個好的回應可以嗎好的我想我們會請我們團隊到您辦公室我們具體討論先來做一個討論是不是對因為這個這個其實地熱是我當時我是我放進來的謝謝那主要是在永續會的時候有些委員提出來我覺得這個意見是蠻好的\n那因為我們未來在地熱的發展是一個主要的方向是我想說把這件事放進來也許會讓事情的推動更容易非常感謝所以我會請我們的團隊規劃一下我們再跟您報告好 謝謝主委您做出這樣的態度謝謝您也謝謝主席謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.362 --> 00:10.444\n謝謝主席,有請國發會劉主委\n\n00:21.781 --> 00:36.874\n主委午安在氣候變遷因應法的第三條有提到公正轉型裡頭呢有提到援助民族那這個公正轉型的定義呢如果根據OECD它的解釋就是說永續的就業產業以及經濟形態進行審慎的計畫與投資\n\n00:45.962 --> 01:03.852\n那我也知道國發會是負責就是中央各部會學者專家民間團體公民參與機制收整的意見訂修之後提交給國發會由國發會整合為國家公正轉型的行動計畫那我在1月14號\n\n01:05.453 --> 01:34.251\n我跟國發會經濟部能源署有受邀環境權保障基金會的一個邀請就是出席一個叫做台灣原住民族與地熱的論壇那整個結論就是說希望比照歐美紐澳等國來爭取原住民族地區能源開發的第一桶金然後也希望台灣應該要有原住民的地熱政策請教諸位\n\n01:34.611 --> 01:37.272\n您覺得這個您贊同嗎這我個人是贊同的好謝謝那我看一下我其實在上一次我有質詢過經濟部那當時有一個案例就是在台東的金輪這個小小的地方有四處就是民間地熱發電廠\n\n01:57.943 --> 02:26.448\n來去做專探來做投資而且他選擇的全部都是私有地那我們姑且不論他是不是為了要規避公有地要做部落諮商同意但是我有根據當時地方的一個訴求也跟經濟部來表達說應該針對部落諮商同意要有一個行政指引也要有一個爭端協調平台然後呢要有政府投資部落入股\n\n02:27.108 --> 02:42.956\n以及地熱專區的試辦點辦理公聽會以及新型態的一種夥伴關係的討論那這個部分其實需要錢所以呢我們也就看了一下在我們主責的這個已經有看到\n\n02:43.516 --> 03:02.412\n在2023年已經匡列了338億多來做公正轉型的一個裁員可是我們看了一下發現說這個地熱是把它歸類到第三項叫做前瞻能源它的公正轉型預算是0理由是說\n\n03:04.013 --> 03:22.701\n這個已經納入戰略規劃未令編列公正轉型預算喔好那我們再來看看國發基金我們發現關於綠能的部分63項到68項大概都是水利啊太陽能啊電池啊也是沒有地熱好\n\n03:24.002 --> 03:42.991\n那在這裡我就要特別看了那提到說已經列入戰略行動計畫那戰略行動計畫呢我們看到在前瞻能源因為地熱被歸類到這邊他是提到說要建立原住民利益共享機制單一的窗口再生能源發展條例的訂定增訂地熱專章促進就業機會因此我們來看一下這個\n\n03:48.474 --> 03:56.681\n你們提到的原住民利益共享機制就是提到說2022年這個賺購費率新增原住民的利益然後費率加成1%那我們看這些民間他是怎麼樣去做所謂的利益共享\n\n04:03.726 --> 04:28.861\n部落的辦理收穫季他就去捐個10箱啤酒啊20箱個水這樣的一個贊助機制也許這個就是大家想像的利益共享機制那第二個呢我們來看一下提到你們說再生能源發展條例要增訂地熱專章但是只有提到公有土地但實際上大家都在討論地熱它不屬於私有地主它是一個共享的資源\n\n04:30.182 --> 04:46.993\n再來第三個戰略就是說要單一窗口但實際上我們需要的是政府業者部落融資的四方合作平台來做部落投資部落入股因為在國外就是做這樣的公正轉型基金然後呢去促進民間投資公正轉型\n\n04:48.313 --> 05:04.102\n那再來第四個問題你們說要促進就業但是這樣的一個所謂的促進就業就是怎麼樣吸引外來的業者但是呢當地就業人才的培育而不是說在自己的土地上做低薪的勞工我要說的是這個種種\n\n05:05.683 --> 05:27.093\n其實都有很多是我們自己在辦公室的想像但是我很高興因為我有看到夜報說要提到做治理沙盒其中一項就是地熱發電所以呢主委我在這個地方因為時間很短我就是希望說能夠把這個沙盒去加入做部落回饋機制的一個沙盒計畫還有部落投資入股\n\n05:31.135 --> 05:36.200\n私有地開發部落同意之際的一個機會為什麼這樣說因為部落公法人原民會也在院長的同意之下今年已經開始選定一些部落要來做部落公法人那這是一個很好的機會那另外呢我也是希望說再怎麼樣我們都希望提出一個地熱公正轉型尤其是對原住民族地區的一個具體工作項目\n\n05:55.738 --> 06:09.608\n還有呢所謂的國發會國發基金編列地熱的公正轉型的預算那因為時間很短我也沒有辦法提供充裕的時間請您來回答但是我是希望說4月1號我們在那一次的論壇有說要辦一個公聽會所以呢我們也\n\n06:14.411 --> 06:41.597\n我也言出必行所以在4月1號我們會在立法院辦理一個地熱的公聽會那我希望說那個時候國發會能夠針對這些問題能夠有做出一個好的回應可以嗎好的我想我們會請我們團隊到您辦公室我們具體討論先來做一個討論是不是對因為這個這個其實地熱是我當時我是我放進來的謝謝那主要是在永續會的時候有些委員提出來我覺得這個意見是蠻好的\n\n06:43.177 --> 07:01.774\n那因為我們未來在地熱的發展是一個主要的方向是我想說把這件事放進來也許會讓事情的推動更容易非常感謝所以我會請我們的團隊規劃一下我們再跟您報告好謝謝主委您做出這樣的態度謝謝您也謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.362,"end":10.444,"text":"謝謝主席,有請國發會劉主委"},{"start":21.781,"end":36.874,"text":"主委午安在氣候變遷因應法的第三條有提到公正轉型裡頭呢有提到援助民族那這個公正轉型的定義呢如果根據OECD它的解釋就是說永續的就業產業以及經濟形態進行審慎的計畫與投資"},{"start":45.962,"end":63.852,"text":"那我也知道國發會是負責就是中央各部會學者專家民間團體公民參與機制收整的意見訂修之後提交給國發會由國發會整合為國家公正轉型的行動計畫那我在1月14號"},{"start":65.453,"end":94.251,"text":"我跟國發會經濟部能源署有受邀環境權保障基金會的一個邀請就是出席一個叫做台灣原住民族與地熱的論壇那整個結論就是說希望比照歐美紐澳等國來爭取原住民族地區能源開發的第一桶金然後也希望台灣應該要有原住民的地熱政策請教 諸位"},{"start":94.611,"end":97.272,"text":"您覺得這個您贊同嗎這我個人是贊同的好 謝謝那我看一下我其實在上一次我有質詢過經濟部那當時有一個案例就是在台東的金輪這個小小的地方有四處就是民間地熱發電廠"},{"start":117.943,"end":146.448,"text":"來去做專探來做投資而且他選擇的全部都是私有地那我們姑且不論他是不是為了要規避公有地要做部落諮商同意但是我有根據當時地方的一個訴求也跟經濟部來表達說應該針對部落諮商同意要有一個行政指引也要有一個爭端協調平台然後呢要有政府投資部落入股"},{"start":147.108,"end":162.956,"text":"以及地熱專區的試辦點辦理公聽會以及新型態的一種夥伴關係的討論那這個部分其實需要錢所以呢我們也就看了一下在我們主責的這個已經有看到"},{"start":163.516,"end":182.412,"text":"在2023年已經匡列了338億多來做公正轉型的一個裁員可是我們看了一下發現說這個地熱是把它歸類到第三項叫做前瞻能源它的公正轉型預算是0理由是說"},{"start":184.013,"end":202.701,"text":"這個已經納入戰略規劃未令編列公正轉型預算喔好那我們再來看看國發基金我們發現關於綠能的部分63項到68項大概都是水利啊太陽能啊電池啊也是沒有地熱好"},{"start":204.002,"end":222.991,"text":"那在這裡我就要特別看了那提到說已經列入戰略行動計畫那戰略行動計畫呢我們看到在前瞻能源因為地熱被歸類到這邊他是提到說要建立原住民利益共享機制單一的窗口再生能源發展條例的訂定增訂地熱專章促進就業機會因此我們來看一下這個"},{"start":228.474,"end":236.681,"text":"你們提到的原住民利益共享機制就是提到說2022年這個賺購費率新增原住民的利益然後費率加成1%那我們看這些民間他是怎麼樣去做所謂的利益共享"},{"start":243.726,"end":268.861,"text":"部落的辦理收穫季他就去捐個10箱啤酒啊20箱個水這樣的一個贊助機制也許這個就是大家想像的利益共享機制那第二個呢我們來看一下提到你們說再生能源發展條例要增訂地熱專章但是只有提到公有土地但實際上大家都在討論地熱它不屬於私有地主它是一個共享的資源"},{"start":270.182,"end":286.993,"text":"再來第三個戰略就是說要單一窗口但實際上我們需要的是政府業者部落融資的四方合作平台來做部落投資部落入股因為在國外就是做這樣的公正轉型基金然後呢去促進民間投資公正轉型"},{"start":288.313,"end":304.102,"text":"那再來第四個問題你們說要促進就業但是這樣的一個所謂的促進就業就是怎麼樣吸引外來的業者但是呢當地就業人才的培育而不是說在自己的土地上做低薪的勞工我要說的是這個種種"},{"start":305.683,"end":327.093,"text":"其實都有很多是我們自己在辦公室的想像但是我很高興因為我有看到夜報說要提到做治理沙盒其中一項就是地熱發電所以呢 主委我在這個地方因為時間很短我就是希望說能夠把這個沙盒去加入做部落回饋機制的一個沙盒計畫還有部落投資入股"},{"start":331.135,"end":336.2,"text":"私有地開發部落同意之際的一個機會為什麼這樣說因為部落公法人原民會也在院長的同意之下今年已經開始選定一些部落要來做部落公法人那這是一個很好的機會那另外呢我也是希望說再怎麼樣我們都希望提出一個地熱公正轉型尤其是對原住民族地區的一個具體工作項目"},{"start":355.738,"end":369.608,"text":"還有呢所謂的國發會國發基金編列地熱的公正轉型的預算那因為時間很短我也沒有辦法提供充裕的時間請您來回答但是我是希望說4月1號我們在那一次的論壇有說要辦一個公聽會所以呢我們也"},{"start":374.411,"end":401.597,"text":"我也言出必行所以在4月1號我們會在立法院辦理一個地熱的公聽會那我希望說那個時候國發會能夠針對這些問題能夠有做出一個好的回應可以嗎好的我想我們會請我們團隊到您辦公室我們具體討論先來做一個討論是不是對因為這個這個其實地熱是我當時我是我放進來的謝謝那主要是在永續會的時候有些委員提出來我覺得這個意見是蠻好的"},{"start":403.177,"end":421.774,"text":"那因為我們未來在地熱的發展是一個主要的方向是我想說把這件事放進來也許會讓事情的推動更容易非常感謝所以我會請我們的團隊規劃一下我們再跟您報告好 謝謝主委您做出這樣的態度謝謝您也謝謝主席謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":915,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（12時31分）謝謝主席，有請國發會劉主委。"],["主席：劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員午安。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主委午安。氣候變遷因應法第三條有提到公正轉型，裡頭有提到原住民族，這個公正轉型的定義，如果根據OECD的解釋就是「永續的就業、產業以及經濟型態進行審慎的計畫與投資」，我知道中央各部會、學者、專家、民間團體公民參與機制蒐整的意見會在訂修後提交給國發會，由國發會整合為國家公正轉型的行動計畫。1月14號，我受國發會、經濟部能源署、環境權保障基金會的邀請出席「臺灣原住民族與地熱論壇」，那整個結論就是希望比照歐美紐澳等國來爭取原住民族地區能源開發的第一桶金，然後也希望臺灣應該要有原住民的地熱政策。請問主委，這個您贊同嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我個人是贊同的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝。其實上一次我有質詢過經濟部，當時有一個案例，就是在臺東金崙這個小小的地方，有四處由民間地熱發電廠在做鑽探、做投資，而且他們選擇的全部都是私有地，我們姑且不論他是不是為了要規避公有地要做部落諮商同意，但是我有根據當時地方的訴求跟經濟部表達過，應該針對部落諮商同意有一個行政指引，也要有一個爭端協調平台，然後要有政府投資、部落入股以及地熱專區的試辦點、辦理公聽會和新型態夥伴關係的討論，那這個部分其實需要錢，所以我們也就看了一下，在我們主責的部分，2023年已經匡列了三百三十八億多做為公正轉型的財源，可是我們發現地熱是歸類到第3項，叫做前瞻能源，它的公正轉型預算是零，理由是這個已經納入戰略規劃，未另編列公正轉型預算。那我們再來看看國發基金，我們發現關於綠能的部分即第63項到第68項，大概都是水力呀、太陽能呀、電池呀，也是沒有地熱。在這裡我就要特別來討論了，既然說已經列入戰略行動計畫，地熱被歸類前瞻能源這一項，而戰略行動計畫則提到地熱能要建立原住民利益共享機制、單一窗口、再生能源發展條例增訂地熱專章、促進就業機會。首先我們來看一下你們提到的原住民利益共享機制，就是說2022年的躉購費率新增原住民的利益分享，然後費率加成1%，那我們再來看這些民間廠商是怎麼樣去做所謂的利益共享？部落辦理收穫季，就去捐個10箱啤酒、20箱的水這樣的贊助方式，也許這個就是大家想像的利益共享機制。第二個是你們說再生能源發展條例要增訂地熱專章，但是只有提到公有土地，可是實際上大家都在討論地熱它不屬於私有地主，它是一個共享的資源。第三個說要設單一窗口，但實際上我們需要的是政府、業者、部落、融資的四方合作平台來做部落投資、部落入股，因為在國外就是做這樣的公正轉型基金，然後去促進民間投資公正轉型。第四個問題是你們說要促進就業，但是這樣一個所謂的促進就業並不只是設法吸引外來的業者，應著重當地就業人才的培育，而不是說在自己的土地上做低薪的勞工。我要說的是這些種種其實很多都是我們自己在辦公室的想像，但是我很高興，因為我有看到業報提到說要治理沙盒，其中一項就是地熱發電，所以主委，我在這個地方質詢，就是希望能夠在沙盒中試驗部落回饋機制、部落投資入股、私有地開發部落同意機制，這是一個機會，為什麼這樣說？因為原民會在院長的同意之下，今年已經開始選定一些部落要來做部落公法人，這是一個很好的機會。另外，我也希望說再怎麼樣，我們都希望提出一個地熱公正轉型，尤其是對原住民族地區的一個具體工作項目，還有就是國發會國發基金編列地熱的公正轉型預算。因為發言時間很短，我也沒有辦法提供充裕的時間請主委來回答，但是我們在那一次的論壇有說要辦一個公聽會，我也言出必行，所以在4月1號，我們會在立法院辦一個地熱的公聽會，我希望那個時候國發會能夠針對這些問題做出一個好的回應。可以嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的，我們會請我們的團隊到您辦公室具體討論。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：先來做一個討論，是不是？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，其實當時地熱是我放進去的，主要是在永續會的時候，有些委員提出來，我覺得這個意見滿好的，因為我們未來在地熱的發展是一個主要的方向，所以我想把這件事放進來也許會讓事情的推動更容易，我會請我們的團隊規劃一下再跟您報告。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝主委您做出這樣的態度，謝謝您，也謝謝主席。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝。"],["主席：我們現在請黃建賓委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-3","speakers":["謝衣鳯","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","陳超明","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","邱志偉","王鴻薇","賴瑞隆","蔡易餘","林倩綺","鍾佳濱","陳培瑜","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃建賓","徐欣瑩","陳冠廷","張嘉郡"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2025-03-19"],"gazette_id":"1143002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143002_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143002_00003"}}}