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剛才的建議我們可以再我們這可以再做思考可不可以多久可以給本席一個回覆你們可以盡量討論兩個月給你們或三個月你總是要拿出辦法來我們可以一個月給針對這些相關的做法的一些評估可以給委員好 謝謝好 謝謝\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 445.866, \"end\": 446.106, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 446.106, \"end\": 446.527, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 446.527, \"end\": 446.747, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 446.747, \"end\": 446.967, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 446.967, \"end\": 447.107, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 447.107, \"end\": 447.247, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"累\", \"start\": 447.247, \"end\": 448.048, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 448.048, \"end\": 448.348, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 448.348, \"end\": 448.748, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 448.748, \"end\": 448.988, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 448.988, \"end\": 449.208, \"score\": 0.989}, 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,267 --> 00:00:21,759\n跟委員會報告我們選擇結束之後會休息20分鐘給各位同仁用餐謝謝謝謝主席本席有請洪部長來請部長薛委員好洪部長好您上任多久了\n\n2\n00:00:22,858 --> 00:00:49,160\n三個多月三個多月您覺得對勞動部的相關業務慢慢熟悉了嗎也必須要慢慢也必須要持續熟悉啊當然好那請教您今天在第六大項有特別提到業務報告裡面優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度那您知道現在很大的一個問題是什麼在這第六大項您知道嗎對不起因為報告上我\n\n3\n00:00:50,748 --> 00:01:02,562\n就是我念給你啊優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度您在這一個大業務的情況下你知道現在台灣存在最嚴重的問題是什麼\n\n4\n00:01:03,916 --> 00:01:28,278\n可能移工的問題移工管理的問題移工管理所以您知道現在這個目前失聯的移工人數有多少嗎最新的數據應該是9萬多對9萬多一直以來都居高不下然後又破了9萬之前8萬多就很多了那我們都束手無策嗎\n\n5\n00:01:30,949 --> 00:01:55,691\n呃當然我們從跟我們跟那個好沒關係因為本席時間有限先稍等先稍等本席今天失聯移工問題先等一下有時間再回頭過來現在失聯移工數有90833人但這個是一個嚴重的系統問題它進一步衍生的也是我們的治安問題\n\n6\n00:01:56,832 --> 00:02:24,759\n但是我们国家的资源流失什么资源流失呢就是目前我们这些失联移工这么多然后有些移工我们要遣返要让他遣返回他的国家逃逸的移工失联移工就是逃逸移工那现在有很多移工我们要把他遣返回去他没有钱然后就用了我们的什么基金您知道吗\n\n7\n00:02:25,399 --> 00:02:54,338\n用救安基金對就業安全基金用了我們的救安基金那過去4年的這個統計呢用掉了我們2億1933萬收不回的收不回的有2億多所以剛剛這麼多的委員在那邊說哇這個被刪掉了800萬新手爸媽然後凍結了那凍結了當然是可以再解凍\n\n8\n00:02:55,780 --> 00:03:09,093\n你這個800或1000可是這麼多年來這個移工遣返的問題你把就業安定基金拿來讓這些移工離開\n\n9\n00:03:11,338 --> 00:03:26,506\n討不回來你也沒有在制度上去更新啊你也沒有去想辦法那怎麼這個錢你就這樣一直流失一直流失兩億多兩億多你在那邊糾結幾百萬幾百萬那所以本席要講的是\n\n10\n00:03:26,986 --> 00:03:48,622\n我們這不是在糾結幾百萬這是不同的這是不同的項目我們都要盡力的做好可是那我要請你我現在沒有請你回答本席要強調的是那你這個都同樣是人民的納稅錢你這邊一直流失一直流失國家資源一直流失兩億多你不痛不癢四年來沒有任何的方案\n\n11\n00:03:51,014 --> 00:04:13,920\n這個就是問題嘛本席要講的就是貪官永遠預算嫌少嘛但是清官才會預算我不接受把他講成是貪官我完全不接受我不是在說你我再說一個現況我不接受把他講成貪官執政的話你不接受沒關係執政荒誕失靈責任推給在野所以本席在這邊我們有做個更好的空間但我不接受把他講成貪官那麼多年來兩億多你們現在有什麼作為\n\n12\n00:04:19,401 --> 00:04:33,502\n有什麼作為跟委員報告目前這個部分我們當然依照應該要負擔這個費用的包括是這個移工或是部長你身為部長都不知道你要他來回答本席可以告訴你\n\n13\n00:04:34,763 --> 00:04:57,320\n這個移民署也一直給你們意見那你們就一直回覆沒辦法做到沒辦法做到那好那沒關係這位是我們的市長跟委員報告我是代理署長原則上應該要先從源頭解決移工失聯的問題那這個部分剛剛部長也有提到我們會從改善移工的勞動條件好沒關係移工失聯你這個錢你不能每年這樣子\n\n14\n00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:12,566\n那至於這個有關電付的這個收費的部分呢我們目前第一個是有加強罰則包括移工如果這個沒有這個你罰他他就是沒錢嘛所以然後本席在這邊再說一個很好笑的就是所以\n\n15\n00:05:13,166 --> 00:05:28,031\n他就是沒有錢所以呢都給他寫了說那我回去會還你錢的一個借據所以現在抽屜有一大堆兩億多有多少張所以本席最後因為時間到了本席建議啊你為什麼不提撥呢因為\n\n16\n00:05:28,991 --> 00:05:40,857\n移民署建議你們說要有這個保證金保證金可能會覺得剝削或者是他負擔不起沒關係那你就從他每個月每個月的薪資你一點一點提撥嘛提撥到你們算得出來嗎\n\n17\n00:05:45,359 --> 00:06:10,974\n就每一次每一個遣返回去大概要多少是一萬塊台幣還是八千塊連機票連相關你收容他的一些吃的飲食的問題你就提撥嘛你提撥到一個量你就停了嘛那也不是保證金問題你就慢慢提撥這樣可以做嗎假如說用提撥的方式如果會增加這個移工的經濟負擔的話在過往的經驗裡面可能會增加他失聯的機率\n\n18\n00:06:11,957 --> 00:06:39,939\n就一點點一點點累積所以你一個月提供他500塊增加移工他經濟的我說這是從過往的經驗來看增加他的經濟負擔的話就過往經驗可能會增加他失聯的機率他每個月可能就賺個幾萬塊那你500塊提撥500塊一個月一個月你一年多你大概就提撥完畢所以你這個500塊你覺得就增加他失聯的這點我\n\n19\n00:06:41,460 --> 00:07:01,354\n我覺得你們要不要考慮看看但是好沒關係我們可以整體的在思考如果我們的建議你覺得不好那你拿出更好的辦法不是讓我們國家資源一直流失一直流失我們各種方法我們都願意來思考但是這確實是一個相當困難相當有挑戰的問題\n\n20\n00:07:02,014 --> 00:07:25,066\n那你可以借鏡一下其他國家其他國家做得好的我們應該要效法嘛我們希望能夠從源頭上面來降低失聯的可能性這當然是我們現在在各種制度上設計上面我們必須優先來考慮的事情很好很好你的源頭如果可以降低我當然大家贊成但是失聯移工人數就一直增加\n\n21\n00:07:25,866 --> 00:07:49,881\n然後每年一直累積我們的就業安定基金都拿去給這些移工遣返回去這個是事實啊委員剛才的建議我們可以再我們這可以再做思考可不可以多久可以給本席一個回覆你們可以盡量討論兩個月給你們或三個月你總是要拿出辦法來我們可以一個月給針對這些相關的做法的一些評估可以給委員好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n267\t21759\t跟委員會報告我們選擇結束之後會休息20分鐘給各位同仁用餐謝謝謝謝主席本席有請洪部長來請部長薛委員好洪部長好您上任多久了\n22858\t49160\t三個多月三個多月您覺得對勞動部的相關業務慢慢熟悉了嗎也必須要慢慢也必須要持續熟悉啊當然好那請教您今天在第六大項有特別提到業務報告裡面優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度那您知道現在很大的一個問題是什麼在這第六大項您知道嗎對不起因為報告上我\n50748\t62562\t就是我念給你啊優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度您在這一個大業務的情況下你知道現在台灣存在最嚴重的問題是什麼\n63916\t88278\t可能移工的問題移工管理的問題移工管理所以您知道現在這個目前失聯的移工人數有多少嗎最新的數據應該是9萬多對9萬多一直以來都居高不下然後又破了9萬之前8萬多就很多了那我們都束手無策嗎\n90949\t115691\t呃 當然我們從跟 我們跟那個好 沒關係因為本席時間有限先稍等 先稍等本席今天失聯移工問題先等一下有時間再回頭過來現在失聯移工數有90833人但這個是一個嚴重的系統問題它進一步衍生的也是我們的治安問題\n116832\t144759\t但是我们国家的资源流失什么资源流失呢就是目前我们这些失联移工这么多然后有些移工我们要遣返要让他遣返回他的国家逃逸的移工失联移工就是逃逸移工那现在有很多移工我们要把他遣返回去他没有钱然后就用了我们的什么基金您知道吗\n145399\t174338\t用救安基金對就業安全基金用了我們的救安基金那過去4年的這個統計呢用掉了我們2億1933萬收不回的收不回的有2億多所以剛剛這麼多的委員在那邊說哇這個被刪掉了800萬新手爸媽然後凍結了那凍結了當然是可以再解凍\n175780\t189093\t你這個800或1000可是這麼多年來這個移工遣返的問題你把就業安定基金拿來讓這些移工離開\n191338\t206506\t討不回來你也沒有在制度上去更新啊你也沒有去想辦法那怎麼這個錢你就這樣一直流失一直流失兩億多兩億多你在那邊糾結幾百萬幾百萬那所以本席要講的是\n206986\t228622\t我們這不是在糾結幾百萬這是不同的這是不同的項目我們都要盡力的做好可是那我要請你我現在沒有請你回答本席要強調的是那你這個都同樣是人民的納稅錢你這邊一直流失一直流失國家資源一直流失兩億多你不痛不癢四年來沒有任何的方案\n231014\t253920\t這個就是問題嘛本席要講的就是貪官永遠預算嫌少嘛但是清官才會預算我不接受把他講成是貪官我完全不接受我不是在說你我再說一個現況我不接受把他講成貪官執政的話你不接受沒關係執政荒誕失靈責任推給在野所以本席在這邊我們有做個更好的空間但我不接受把他講成貪官那麼多年來兩億多你們現在有什麼作為\n259401\t273502\t有什麼作為跟委員報告目前這個部分我們當然依照應該要負擔這個費用的包括是這個移工或是部長你身為部長都不知道你要他來回答本席可以告訴你\n274763\t297320\t這個移民署也一直給你們意見那你們就一直回覆沒辦法做到 沒辦法做到那好 那沒關係這位是我們的市長跟委員報告我是代理署長原則上應該要先從源頭解決移工失聯的問題那這個部分剛剛部長也有提到我們會從改善移工的勞動條件好 沒關係移工失聯你這個錢你不能每年這樣子\n297600\t312566\t那至於這個有關電付的這個收費的部分呢我們目前第一個是有加強罰則包括移工如果這個沒有這個你罰他他就是沒錢嘛所以然後本席在這邊再說一個很好笑的就是所以\n313166\t328031\t他就是沒有錢所以呢都給他寫了說那我回去會還你錢的一個借據所以現在抽屜有一大堆兩億多有多少張所以本席最後因為時間到了本席建議啊你為什麼不提撥呢因為\n328991\t340857\t移民署建議你們說要有這個保證金保證金可能會覺得剝削或者是他負擔不起沒關係那你就從他每個月每個月的薪資你一點一點提撥嘛提撥到你們算得出來嗎\n345359\t370974\t就每一次每一個遣返回去大概要多少是一萬塊台幣還是八千塊連機票連相關你收容他的一些吃的飲食的問題你就提撥嘛你提撥到一個量你就停了嘛那也不是保證金問題你就慢慢提撥這樣可以做嗎假如說用提撥的方式如果會增加這個移工的經濟負擔的話在過往的經驗裡面可能會增加他失聯的機率\n371957\t399939\t就一點點一點點累積所以你一個月提供他500塊增加移工他經濟的我說這是從過往的經驗來看增加他的經濟負擔的話就過往經驗可能會增加他失聯的機率他每個月可能就賺個幾萬塊那你500塊提撥500塊一個月一個月你一年多你大概就提撥完畢所以你這個500塊你覺得就增加他失聯的這點我\n401460\t421354\t我覺得你們要不要考慮看看但是好沒關係我們可以整體的在思考如果我們的建議你覺得不好那你拿出更好的辦法不是讓我們國家資源一直流失一直流失我們各種方法我們都願意來思考但是這確實是一個相當困難相當有挑戰的問題\n422014\t445066\t那你可以借鏡一下其他國家其他國家做得好的我們應該要效法嘛我們希望能夠從源頭上面來降低失聯的可能性這當然是我們現在在各種制度上設計上面我們必須優先來考慮的事情很好很好你的源頭如果可以降低我當然大家贊成但是失聯移工人數就一直增加\n445866\t469881\t然後每年一直累積我們的就業安定基金都拿去給這些移工遣返回去這個是事實啊委員 剛才的建議我們可以再我們這可以再做思考可不可以多久可以給本席一個回覆你們可以盡量討論兩個月給你們或三個月你總是要拿出辦法來我們可以一個月給針對這些相關的做法的一些評估可以給委員好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"跟委員會報告我們選擇結束之後會休息20分鐘給各位同仁用餐謝謝謝謝主席本席有請洪部長來請部長薛委員好洪部長好您上任多久了\n三個多月三個多月您覺得對勞動部的相關業務慢慢熟悉了嗎也必須要慢慢也必須要持續熟悉啊當然好那請教您今天在第六大項有特別提到業務報告裡面優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度那您知道現在很大的一個問題是什麼在這第六大項您知道嗎對不起因為報告上我\n就是我念給你啊優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度您在這一個大業務的情況下你知道現在台灣存在最嚴重的問題是什麼\n可能移工的問題移工管理的問題移工管理所以您知道現在這個目前失聯的移工人數有多少嗎最新的數據應該是9萬多對9萬多一直以來都居高不下然後又破了9萬之前8萬多就很多了那我們都束手無策嗎\n呃 當然我們從跟 我們跟那個好 沒關係因為本席時間有限先稍等 先稍等本席今天失聯移工問題先等一下有時間再回頭過來現在失聯移工數有90833人但這個是一個嚴重的系統問題它進一步衍生的也是我們的治安問題\n但是我们国家的资源流失什么资源流失呢就是目前我们这些失联移工这么多然后有些移工我们要遣返要让他遣返回他的国家逃逸的移工失联移工就是逃逸移工那现在有很多移工我们要把他遣返回去他没有钱然后就用了我们的什么基金您知道吗\n用救安基金對就業安全基金用了我們的救安基金那過去4年的這個統計呢用掉了我們2億1933萬收不回的收不回的有2億多所以剛剛這麼多的委員在那邊說哇這個被刪掉了800萬新手爸媽然後凍結了那凍結了當然是可以再解凍\n你這個800或1000可是這麼多年來這個移工遣返的問題你把就業安定基金拿來讓這些移工離開\n討不回來你也沒有在制度上去更新啊你也沒有去想辦法那怎麼這個錢你就這樣一直流失一直流失兩億多兩億多你在那邊糾結幾百萬幾百萬那所以本席要講的是\n我們這不是在糾結幾百萬這是不同的這是不同的項目我們都要盡力的做好可是那我要請你我現在沒有請你回答本席要強調的是那你這個都同樣是人民的納稅錢你這邊一直流失一直流失國家資源一直流失兩億多你不痛不癢四年來沒有任何的方案\n這個就是問題嘛本席要講的就是貪官永遠預算嫌少嘛但是清官才會預算我不接受把他講成是貪官我完全不接受我不是在說你我再說一個現況我不接受把他講成貪官執政的話你不接受沒關係執政荒誕失靈責任推給在野所以本席在這邊我們有做個更好的空間但我不接受把他講成貪官那麼多年來兩億多你們現在有什麼作為\n有什麼作為跟委員報告目前這個部分我們當然依照應該要負擔這個費用的包括是這個移工或是部長你身為部長都不知道你要他來回答本席可以告訴你\n這個移民署也一直給你們意見那你們就一直回覆沒辦法做到 沒辦法做到那好 那沒關係這位是我們的市長跟委員報告我是代理署長原則上應該要先從源頭解決移工失聯的問題那這個部分剛剛部長也有提到我們會從改善移工的勞動條件好 沒關係移工失聯你這個錢你不能每年這樣子\n那至於這個有關電付的這個收費的部分呢我們目前第一個是有加強罰則包括移工如果這個沒有這個你罰他他就是沒錢嘛所以然後本席在這邊再說一個很好笑的就是所以\n他就是沒有錢所以呢都給他寫了說那我回去會還你錢的一個借據所以現在抽屜有一大堆兩億多有多少張所以本席最後因為時間到了本席建議啊你為什麼不提撥呢因為\n移民署建議你們說要有這個保證金保證金可能會覺得剝削或者是他負擔不起沒關係那你就從他每個月每個月的薪資你一點一點提撥嘛提撥到你們算得出來嗎\n就每一次每一個遣返回去大概要多少是一萬塊台幣還是八千塊連機票連相關你收容他的一些吃的飲食的問題你就提撥嘛你提撥到一個量你就停了嘛那也不是保證金問題你就慢慢提撥這樣可以做嗎假如說用提撥的方式如果會增加這個移工的經濟負擔的話在過往的經驗裡面可能會增加他失聯的機率\n就一點點一點點累積所以你一個月提供他500塊增加移工他經濟的我說這是從過往的經驗來看增加他的經濟負擔的話就過往經驗可能會增加他失聯的機率他每個月可能就賺個幾萬塊那你500塊提撥500塊一個月一個月你一年多你大概就提撥完畢所以你這個500塊你覺得就增加他失聯的這點我\n我覺得你們要不要考慮看看但是好沒關係我們可以整體的在思考如果我們的建議你覺得不好那你拿出更好的辦法不是讓我們國家資源一直流失一直流失我們各種方法我們都願意來思考但是這確實是一個相當困難相當有挑戰的問題\n那你可以借鏡一下其他國家其他國家做得好的我們應該要效法嘛我們希望能夠從源頭上面來降低失聯的可能性這當然是我們現在在各種制度上設計上面我們必須優先來考慮的事情很好很好你的源頭如果可以降低我當然大家贊成但是失聯移工人數就一直增加\n然後每年一直累積我們的就業安定基金都拿去給這些移工遣返回去這個是事實啊委員 剛才的建議我們可以再我們這可以再做思考可不可以多久可以給本席一個回覆你們可以盡量討論兩個月給你們或三個月你總是要拿出辦法來我們可以一個月給針對這些相關的做法的一些評估可以給委員好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.267 --> 00:21.759\n跟委員會報告我們選擇結束之後會休息20分鐘給各位同仁用餐謝謝謝謝主席本席有請洪部長來請部長薛委員好洪部長好您上任多久了\n\n00:22.858 --> 00:49.160\n三個多月三個多月您覺得對勞動部的相關業務慢慢熟悉了嗎也必須要慢慢也必須要持續熟悉啊當然好那請教您今天在第六大項有特別提到業務報告裡面優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度那您知道現在很大的一個問題是什麼在這第六大項您知道嗎對不起因為報告上我\n\n00:50.748 --> 01:02.562\n就是我念給你啊優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度您在這一個大業務的情況下你知道現在台灣存在最嚴重的問題是什麼\n\n01:03.916 --> 01:28.278\n可能移工的問題移工管理的問題移工管理所以您知道現在這個目前失聯的移工人數有多少嗎最新的數據應該是9萬多對9萬多一直以來都居高不下然後又破了9萬之前8萬多就很多了那我們都束手無策嗎\n\n01:30.949 --> 01:55.691\n呃當然我們從跟我們跟那個好沒關係因為本席時間有限先稍等先稍等本席今天失聯移工問題先等一下有時間再回頭過來現在失聯移工數有90833人但這個是一個嚴重的系統問題它進一步衍生的也是我們的治安問題\n\n01:56.832 --> 02:24.759\n但是我们国家的资源流失什么资源流失呢就是目前我们这些失联移工这么多然后有些移工我们要遣返要让他遣返回他的国家逃逸的移工失联移工就是逃逸移工那现在有很多移工我们要把他遣返回去他没有钱然后就用了我们的什么基金您知道吗\n\n02:25.399 --> 02:54.338\n用救安基金對就業安全基金用了我們的救安基金那過去4年的這個統計呢用掉了我們2億1933萬收不回的收不回的有2億多所以剛剛這麼多的委員在那邊說哇這個被刪掉了800萬新手爸媽然後凍結了那凍結了當然是可以再解凍\n\n02:55.780 --> 03:09.093\n你這個800或1000可是這麼多年來這個移工遣返的問題你把就業安定基金拿來讓這些移工離開\n\n03:11.338 --> 03:26.506\n討不回來你也沒有在制度上去更新啊你也沒有去想辦法那怎麼這個錢你就這樣一直流失一直流失兩億多兩億多你在那邊糾結幾百萬幾百萬那所以本席要講的是\n\n03:26.986 --> 03:48.622\n我們這不是在糾結幾百萬這是不同的這是不同的項目我們都要盡力的做好可是那我要請你我現在沒有請你回答本席要強調的是那你這個都同樣是人民的納稅錢你這邊一直流失一直流失國家資源一直流失兩億多你不痛不癢四年來沒有任何的方案\n\n03:51.014 --> 04:13.920\n這個就是問題嘛本席要講的就是貪官永遠預算嫌少嘛但是清官才會預算我不接受把他講成是貪官我完全不接受我不是在說你我再說一個現況我不接受把他講成貪官執政的話你不接受沒關係執政荒誕失靈責任推給在野所以本席在這邊我們有做個更好的空間但我不接受把他講成貪官那麼多年來兩億多你們現在有什麼作為\n\n04:19.401 --> 04:33.502\n有什麼作為跟委員報告目前這個部分我們當然依照應該要負擔這個費用的包括是這個移工或是部長你身為部長都不知道你要他來回答本席可以告訴你\n\n04:34.763 --> 04:57.320\n這個移民署也一直給你們意見那你們就一直回覆沒辦法做到沒辦法做到那好那沒關係這位是我們的市長跟委員報告我是代理署長原則上應該要先從源頭解決移工失聯的問題那這個部分剛剛部長也有提到我們會從改善移工的勞動條件好沒關係移工失聯你這個錢你不能每年這樣子\n\n04:57.600 --> 05:12.566\n那至於這個有關電付的這個收費的部分呢我們目前第一個是有加強罰則包括移工如果這個沒有這個你罰他他就是沒錢嘛所以然後本席在這邊再說一個很好笑的就是所以\n\n05:13.166 --> 05:28.031\n他就是沒有錢所以呢都給他寫了說那我回去會還你錢的一個借據所以現在抽屜有一大堆兩億多有多少張所以本席最後因為時間到了本席建議啊你為什麼不提撥呢因為\n\n05:28.991 --> 05:40.857\n移民署建議你們說要有這個保證金保證金可能會覺得剝削或者是他負擔不起沒關係那你就從他每個月每個月的薪資你一點一點提撥嘛提撥到你們算得出來嗎\n\n05:45.359 --> 06:10.974\n就每一次每一個遣返回去大概要多少是一萬塊台幣還是八千塊連機票連相關你收容他的一些吃的飲食的問題你就提撥嘛你提撥到一個量你就停了嘛那也不是保證金問題你就慢慢提撥這樣可以做嗎假如說用提撥的方式如果會增加這個移工的經濟負擔的話在過往的經驗裡面可能會增加他失聯的機率\n\n06:11.957 --> 06:39.939\n就一點點一點點累積所以你一個月提供他500塊增加移工他經濟的我說這是從過往的經驗來看增加他的經濟負擔的話就過往經驗可能會增加他失聯的機率他每個月可能就賺個幾萬塊那你500塊提撥500塊一個月一個月你一年多你大概就提撥完畢所以你這個500塊你覺得就增加他失聯的這點我\n\n06:41.460 --> 07:01.354\n我覺得你們要不要考慮看看但是好沒關係我們可以整體的在思考如果我們的建議你覺得不好那你拿出更好的辦法不是讓我們國家資源一直流失一直流失我們各種方法我們都願意來思考但是這確實是一個相當困難相當有挑戰的問題\n\n07:02.014 --> 07:25.066\n那你可以借鏡一下其他國家其他國家做得好的我們應該要效法嘛我們希望能夠從源頭上面來降低失聯的可能性這當然是我們現在在各種制度上設計上面我們必須優先來考慮的事情很好很好你的源頭如果可以降低我當然大家贊成但是失聯移工人數就一直增加\n\n07:25.866 --> 07:49.881\n然後每年一直累積我們的就業安定基金都拿去給這些移工遣返回去這個是事實啊委員剛才的建議我們可以再我們這可以再做思考可不可以多久可以給本席一個回覆你們可以盡量討論兩個月給你們或三個月你總是要拿出辦法來我們可以一個月給針對這些相關的做法的一些評估可以給委員好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.267,"end":21.759,"text":"跟委員會報告我們選擇結束之後會休息20分鐘給各位同仁用餐謝謝謝謝主席本席有請洪部長來請部長薛委員好洪部長好您上任多久了"},{"start":22.858,"end":49.16,"text":"三個多月三個多月您覺得對勞動部的相關業務慢慢熟悉了嗎也必須要慢慢也必須要持續熟悉啊當然好那請教您今天在第六大項有特別提到業務報告裡面優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度那您知道現在很大的一個問題是什麼在這第六大項您知道嗎對不起因為報告上我"},{"start":50.748,"end":62.562,"text":"就是我念給你啊優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度您在這一個大業務的情況下你知道現在台灣存在最嚴重的問題是什麼"},{"start":63.916,"end":88.278,"text":"可能移工的問題移工管理的問題移工管理所以您知道現在這個目前失聯的移工人數有多少嗎最新的數據應該是9萬多對9萬多一直以來都居高不下然後又破了9萬之前8萬多就很多了那我們都束手無策嗎"},{"start":90.949,"end":115.691,"text":"呃 當然我們從跟 我們跟那個好 沒關係因為本席時間有限先稍等 先稍等本席今天失聯移工問題先等一下有時間再回頭過來現在失聯移工數有90833人但這個是一個嚴重的系統問題它進一步衍生的也是我們的治安問題"},{"start":116.832,"end":144.759,"text":"但是我们国家的资源流失什么资源流失呢就是目前我们这些失联移工这么多然后有些移工我们要遣返要让他遣返回他的国家逃逸的移工失联移工就是逃逸移工那现在有很多移工我们要把他遣返回去他没有钱然后就用了我们的什么基金您知道吗"},{"start":145.399,"end":174.338,"text":"用救安基金對就業安全基金用了我們的救安基金那過去4年的這個統計呢用掉了我們2億1933萬收不回的收不回的有2億多所以剛剛這麼多的委員在那邊說哇這個被刪掉了800萬新手爸媽然後凍結了那凍結了當然是可以再解凍"},{"start":175.78,"end":189.093,"text":"你這個800或1000可是這麼多年來這個移工遣返的問題你把就業安定基金拿來讓這些移工離開"},{"start":191.338,"end":206.506,"text":"討不回來你也沒有在制度上去更新啊你也沒有去想辦法那怎麼這個錢你就這樣一直流失一直流失兩億多兩億多你在那邊糾結幾百萬幾百萬那所以本席要講的是"},{"start":206.986,"end":228.622,"text":"我們這不是在糾結幾百萬這是不同的這是不同的項目我們都要盡力的做好可是那我要請你我現在沒有請你回答本席要強調的是那你這個都同樣是人民的納稅錢你這邊一直流失一直流失國家資源一直流失兩億多你不痛不癢四年來沒有任何的方案"},{"start":231.014,"end":253.92,"text":"這個就是問題嘛本席要講的就是貪官永遠預算嫌少嘛但是清官才會預算我不接受把他講成是貪官我完全不接受我不是在說你我再說一個現況我不接受把他講成貪官執政的話你不接受沒關係執政荒誕失靈責任推給在野所以本席在這邊我們有做個更好的空間但我不接受把他講成貪官那麼多年來兩億多你們現在有什麼作為"},{"start":259.401,"end":273.502,"text":"有什麼作為跟委員報告目前這個部分我們當然依照應該要負擔這個費用的包括是這個移工或是部長你身為部長都不知道你要他來回答本席可以告訴你"},{"start":274.763,"end":297.32,"text":"這個移民署也一直給你們意見那你們就一直回覆沒辦法做到 沒辦法做到那好 那沒關係這位是我們的市長跟委員報告我是代理署長原則上應該要先從源頭解決移工失聯的問題那這個部分剛剛部長也有提到我們會從改善移工的勞動條件好 沒關係移工失聯你這個錢你不能每年這樣子"},{"start":297.6,"end":312.566,"text":"那至於這個有關電付的這個收費的部分呢我們目前第一個是有加強罰則包括移工如果這個沒有這個你罰他他就是沒錢嘛所以然後本席在這邊再說一個很好笑的就是所以"},{"start":313.166,"end":328.031,"text":"他就是沒有錢所以呢都給他寫了說那我回去會還你錢的一個借據所以現在抽屜有一大堆兩億多有多少張所以本席最後因為時間到了本席建議啊你為什麼不提撥呢因為"},{"start":328.991,"end":340.857,"text":"移民署建議你們說要有這個保證金保證金可能會覺得剝削或者是他負擔不起沒關係那你就從他每個月每個月的薪資你一點一點提撥嘛提撥到你們算得出來嗎"},{"start":345.359,"end":370.974,"text":"就每一次每一個遣返回去大概要多少是一萬塊台幣還是八千塊連機票連相關你收容他的一些吃的飲食的問題你就提撥嘛你提撥到一個量你就停了嘛那也不是保證金問題你就慢慢提撥這樣可以做嗎假如說用提撥的方式如果會增加這個移工的經濟負擔的話在過往的經驗裡面可能會增加他失聯的機率"},{"start":371.957,"end":399.939,"text":"就一點點一點點累積所以你一個月提供他500塊增加移工他經濟的我說這是從過往的經驗來看增加他的經濟負擔的話就過往經驗可能會增加他失聯的機率他每個月可能就賺個幾萬塊那你500塊提撥500塊一個月一個月你一年多你大概就提撥完畢所以你這個500塊你覺得就增加他失聯的這點我"},{"start":401.46,"end":421.354,"text":"我覺得你們要不要考慮看看但是好沒關係我們可以整體的在思考如果我們的建議你覺得不好那你拿出更好的辦法不是讓我們國家資源一直流失一直流失我們各種方法我們都願意來思考但是這確實是一個相當困難相當有挑戰的問題"},{"start":422.014,"end":445.066,"text":"那你可以借鏡一下其他國家其他國家做得好的我們應該要效法嘛我們希望能夠從源頭上面來降低失聯的可能性這當然是我們現在在各種制度上設計上面我們必須優先來考慮的事情很好很好你的源頭如果可以降低我當然大家贊成但是失聯移工人數就一直增加"},{"start":445.866,"end":469.881,"text":"然後每年一直累積我們的就業安定基金都拿去給這些移工遣返回去這個是事實啊委員 剛才的建議我們可以再我們這可以再做思考可不可以多久可以給本席一個回覆你們可以盡量討論兩個月給你們或三個月你總是要拿出辦法來我們可以一個月給針對這些相關的做法的一些評估可以給委員好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1432,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（13時27分）謝謝主席，本席有請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：洪部長好。您上任多久了？"],["洪部長申翰：三個多月。"],["徐委員欣瑩：您覺得對勞動部的相關業務慢慢熟悉了嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：當然也必須要持續熟悉啊！"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。您今天在業務報告第六大項裡面有特別提到「優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度」，那您知道現在這第六大項很大的一個問題是什麼？您知道嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：對不起，業務報告……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我念給你啊，「優化跨國勞動力聘僱管理制度」，在這一個大業務的情況下，您知道現在臺灣存在最嚴重的問題是什麼？"],["洪部長申翰：可能是移工的問題、移工管理的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以您知道目前失聯的移工人數有多少？"],["洪部長申翰：最新的數據應該是九萬多。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，九萬多，一直以來都居高不下，然後又破了9萬，之前八萬多就已經很多了。那我們都束手無策嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：當然我們跟內政部移民署……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，沒關係，因為我們時間有限，先稍等，本席今天……失聯移工問題等一下有時間再回頭過來談，現在失聯移工數有9萬833人，這是一個嚴重的系統問題，它進一步衍生的也是我們的治安問題，但是也使我們國家的資源流失，什麼資源流失呢？目前我們這些失聯移工這麼多，有些移工是我們要遣返他回他的國家，就是這些逃逸的移工，失聯移工就是逃逸移工，我們現在要把很多移工遣返回去，他沒有錢，然後就用了我們的什麼基金，您知道嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：就安基金。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，就業安定基金，用了我們的就安基金，那過去四年的統計，這部分用掉了我們2億1,933萬，是收不回的，收不回的有兩億多。所以剛剛這麼多的委員在那邊說：哇！這個新手爸媽被刪掉了800萬，然後凍結了，你這個凍結的800萬或1,000萬當然是可以再解凍，可是這麼多年來，為了這個移工遣返的問題，你把就業安定基金拿來讓這些移工離開卻討不回來，你也沒有在制度上去更新，你也沒有去想辦法，這個錢你就這樣一直流失、一直流失，兩億多！你在那邊糾結幾百萬、幾百萬！所以本席要講的是……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，這不是在糾結幾百萬，這是不同的項目……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，不同的項目……"],["洪部長申翰：我們都要盡力的做好，可是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我現在沒有請你回答。本席要強調的是，這個同樣都是人民的納稅錢，你這邊一直流失，國家資源一直流失，兩億多你不痛不癢，四年來沒有任何的方案，這個就是問題嘛！本席要講的就是，貪官永遠嫌預算少，但是清官才會……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我不接受把他講成是貪官，我完全不接受。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我不是在說你。我是在說一個現況，執政的……"],["洪部長申翰：但是你不要用貪官來形容，我不接受把他講成貪官。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，你不接受沒關係，執政荒誕失靈，責任推給在野，所以本席在這邊……"],["洪部長申翰：我們有做得更好的空間，但我不接受把他講成貪官。"],["徐委員欣瑩：針對這個兩億多，那麼多年來，你們現在有什麼作為？有什麼作為？"],["陳代理署長世昌：跟委員報告，目前這個部分我們當然應該要負擔這個費用，包括這個移工或是中心的部分……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是，你身為部長都不知道，還要他來回答？本席可以告訴你，移民署也一直給你們意見，你們就一直回復表示沒辦法做到、沒辦法做到。好，那沒關係……這位是司長嗎？"],["陳代理署長世昌：跟委員報告，我是代理署長。原則上應該要先從源頭解決移工失聯的問題，這個部分剛剛部長也有提到，我們會從改善移工的勞動條件以及促進合法僱用來處理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，但你不能每年這樣子讓錢一直流失嘛！"],["陳代理署長世昌：至於這個有關墊付遣返費用的部分，我們目前第一個是有加強罰則，包括移工如果這個部分沒有……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你罰他，他就是沒錢嘛！然後本席在這邊再說一個很好笑的，他就是沒有錢，所以都讓他寫了我回去以後會還你錢的借據，所以現在抽屜裡有一大堆，兩億多會有多少張？最後因為時間到了，本席建議，你為什麼不提撥呢？因為移民署建議你們說要有這個保證金，如果收保證金，可能會覺得有剝削或者是他負擔不起之虞，沒關係，那你就從他每個月的薪資中一點一點提撥嘛！你們算得出來嘛，就是每一次遣返一個回去大概要多少，是1萬塊臺幣還是8,000塊？連機票、連相關包括你收容他的一些飲食的部分，你就提撥嘛，你提撥到一個量就停了嘛，那也不是保證金問題，你就慢慢提撥，這樣可以做嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，比方說用提撥的方式，如果會增加移工的經濟負擔的話，在過往的經驗裡面可能會增加他失聯的機率。"],["徐委員欣瑩：就一點點、一點點累積嘛！所以你一個月提撥他500塊……"],["洪部長申翰：增加移工經濟的……我說這是從過往的經驗來看，如果增加他的經濟負擔的話，就過往經驗可能會增加他失聯的機率。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是啦！他每個月可能就賺個幾萬塊嘛！那你一個月提撥500塊，大概一年多就提撥完畢啦！所以就你說你覺得這個500塊會增加他失聯機率的這一點，我覺得你們要不要考慮看看？"],["洪部長申翰：當然我們可以整體來思考這件事情。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，沒關係，如果你覺得我們的建議不好，那請你拿出更好的辦法，而不是讓我們國家的資源一直流失、一直流失。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，各種方法我們都願意來思考，但是這確實是一個相當困難、相當有挑戰的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那你可以借鏡一下其他國家，其他國家做得好的，我們應該要效法嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：我們希望能夠從源頭上面降低失聯的可能性，這當然是我們現在在各種制度設計上面必須優先考慮的事情。委員剛才的建議……"],["徐委員欣瑩：很好、很好，如果你的源頭可以降低，大家當然贊成，但是失聯移工人數就一直增加，然後每年一直累積，我們的就業安定基金都拿去用在這些移工的遣返，這個是事實啊！"],["洪部長申翰：委員剛才的建議，我們可以再思考。"],["徐委員欣瑩：多久可以給本席回復？你們可以儘量討論，給你們兩個月或三個月？你總是要拿出辦法來嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：針對這些相關的作法、評估，我們可以一個月給委員。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐委員。謝謝部長。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","請柯志恩委員，柯志恩委員、柯志恩委員不在。","請蔡易餘委員，蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員不在。","請陳瑩委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":536,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-3","speakers":["劉建國","黃國昌","陳菁徽","林月琴","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王育敏","盧縣一","王正旭","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳培瑜","楊曜","高金素梅","陳昭姿","牛煦庭","張雅琳","黃捷","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","徐欣瑩","陳瑩"],"page_start":285,"meetingDate":["2025-03-19"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理113年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算決議有關勞動部預算凍結報告案 19案；二、邀請\n勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預\n算關於勞動部主管部分","agenda_id":"1142901_00005"}}}