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審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「學校營養飲食供餐法草案」案。(二十一) \t審查委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「高級中等以下學校供餐及飲食教育條例草案」案。(二十二) 審查委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」案。(二十三) 審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案。\n二、審查「運動產業發展條例」：\n(一) 審查委員柯志恩等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(二) 審查委員張智倫等 18 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(三) 審查委員洪孟楷等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(四) 審查委員王鴻薇等 19 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(五) 審查委員林倩綺等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第四條條文修正草案」案。(六) 審查委員沈發惠等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二條條文修正草案」案。(七) 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\"end\": 695.098, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 695.098, \"end\": 695.338, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 695.338, \"end\": 695.498, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 695.498, \"end\": 695.598, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 695.598, \"end\": 695.718, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 695.718, \"end\": 695.738, \"score\": 0.024}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"柯\", \"start\": 698.684, \"end\": 698.844, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"志\", \"start\": 698.844, \"end\": 698.965, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"恩\", \"start\": 698.965, \"end\": 699.065, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 699.065, \"end\": 699.085, \"score\": 0.249}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,209 --> 00:00:04,253\n委員提出質詢謝謝我們請張次長請張次長張廖次長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:10,325 --> 00:00:37,622\n谢谢科委员次长好我想在进入营养午餐专法的探讨之前我们先来澄清一件事情我想在这个人民投家的宣讲当中包括你们的委员还有包括非常多的网络在流传家长都在抗议说今年他们的小孩好不容易考上公费留考但是因为我们在野党删减的公费留学奖金的预算让这些学生没有办法留学\n\n3\n00:00:38,422 --> 00:00:44,304\n我想請張次長特別來說一下今年的留學獎金有被刪減或被凍結嗎這個部分柯木據我了解是沒有那在這個個案我們有去了解那我請那個細節我請那個我不是個案現在網路到處流傳然後你可不可以告訴我就你理解沒有來我先告訴你一下就我們查出來的資料當中很明顯的告訴我們這個教育部編列的國際人才是有一次\n\n4\n00:01:07,612 --> 00:01:25,651\n14亿8千多公费留考的举办留学生奖学金包括贷款是3407万这完全是从我们的预算书里面特别出来的鼓励学生国外交流是4.8亿鼓励赴世界一流大学的奖学金是2.3亿还有世界大学合作的1.95亿\n\n5\n00:01:26,872 --> 00:01:52,888\n還不包括留學貸款的兩千多萬還有新南向國鄉產業實習的五億總共留學的獎學金是九億四千萬比去年七億還多增加一點三億請告訴我為什麼有這麼多的謠傳包括你們的立委在公開的場合告訴我們因為我們山我們洞所以讓這些學生沒有辦法出去請給我一個清楚的答案我想委員的這個資料非常清楚我們得到資料是這樣子\n\n6\n00:01:54,181 --> 00:02:09,366\n所以说太夸张太离谱好不好太离谱我的分贝98好不好这就是一个部分嘛所以我只能说教部有做澄清吗你们如果选择沉默难道是配合这样的一个谣言吗\n\n7\n00:02:10,146 --> 00:02:17,090\n我想不會去配合啦就是說因為網路有太多消息我們拿不進去澄清啦那次長我們給你們一個機會教育部一向就需要把家長的concern放在心上因為這非常的重要不要讓家長去我也覺得啊留學好不容易考上怎麼可能會刪減呢所以呢你們有個即時新聞澄清網\n\n8\n00:02:30,117 --> 00:02:47,960\n我上网去看了一下真的不好意思我也不知道是什么理由停留在112年12月8号现在是应该我们有计算应该是114年吧对不对这叫及时澄清网次长你觉得你们是不是需要在这个地方做一个澄清让我们家长来放心一下呢\n\n9\n00:02:48,200 --> 00:03:06,205\n好我想這部分我們會來檢討來謝謝你所以說基本上趕快來做一個澄清啊否則我也希望教育部在你們的帶領之下面其實都非常理性的有如果讓家長有不安心的地方請趕快做一些澄清然後請問一下次長你們的預算什麼時候要送來解凍\n\n10\n00:03:07,401 --> 00:03:21,188\n我們預算已經在簽合了好你趕快送上簡東以關跟教育有關的我們在場委員其實都會很願意來趕快去做趕快送上來我很怕有一些單位不送他好像到最後又是因為我們在動我們在閃我們覺得撐不起這樣子的一個謠言好不好謠言滿天飛\n\n11\n00:03:25,430 --> 00:03:44,711\n请把立即做澄清我们希望我们今天或明天看到让全国有公费留学的家长们放心在野党没有山也没有洞这是一个正确的资料好接下来我要问一下就是因为如此我还是忍不住要发声一下因为这位是跟我们是大学一样的同僚大学教授愿意能够\n\n12\n00:03:45,191 --> 00:04:03,946\n来到这个政府机关来服务我觉得都应该给予鼓励然后呢你们国立科学博物馆的馆长其实上是一个非常负责认真的我们过去呢去年也曾经到科博馆里面来做参访非常认真的告诉我们科博馆未来整个方向那我不晓得为什么会有逼退馆长这样的一件事情\n\n13\n00:04:04,386 --> 00:04:19,104\n而且呢让所有的研究员研究员都在做研究他们竟然就是连署而且上诉到赖总统的部分里面请问你们现在也只是代理为什么要让一个很优秀的馆长却是被你们教育部给被请辞\n\n14\n00:04:19,805 --> 00:04:35,381\n我想我這邊得到資料是交管長是在2月16號歸屆嘛那他是屆掉他的任期是到7月31號對有什麼理由要讓人家在2月的時候就走人這個屆掉沒有所謂我聽到的是屆掉沒有所謂的任期啦就是說這個他就是屆掉然後就是歸這個時間到\n\n15\n00:04:36,903 --> 00:05:04,628\n是他的理由事实上他想做到7月30而且他还在医院的时候呢曾经给全管发一封信希望大家能够为科普馆的未来能够做好一些预备的动作难道是因为他每一次都来我们这边希望我们周围能够帮他们争取预算争取到让你们教育部觉得这样的一个做法好像是太麻烦然后呢就因此明明是7月的时候可以让他去归件你们却在2月时候请人家走人\n\n16\n00:05:05,387 --> 00:05:17,829\n我想教育部這邊人事單位跟我講的說他們只有收到請辭的一個這個對不起次長他是被請辭你要不要再去了解一下雖然往事已矣但是我認為一個非常優秀的館長而且願意為科博館來因為對我來說的話他是一個科博館的損失是你們教育部的損失你有機會的話你也認識這位館長然後呢基於對於他的優秀跟認真我覺得有必要因為這對於未來\n\n17\n00:05:32,972 --> 00:05:53,264\n所有要被借掉到我们教育部各单位里面来从事公职的教授而言这都是一个指标我请次长可以好好的来了解一下谢谢你了我们来了解对这是一个非常重要的我们不需要一个优秀的人才因为是怎么样不同的理由特别是跟庄委不断的希望能够给予更多的经费然后让大家觉得这个\n\n18\n00:05:53,744 --> 00:06:12,757\n认真过度以至于让其他人觉得到底发生什么事我希望这种事情不要再发生在教育部所属的单位所以请次长好好去了解一下接下来我们就来看看营养午餐的这个公法了我想我去年五月的时候在当招委的时候我就召开了学校午餐法制化的一个公听会那时候次长\n\n19\n00:06:13,137 --> 00:06:31,408\n当然不是你是一个林明玉政策来出席而且公听会到距离现在是到底多久了十个月过去了然后呢请问有关于学校影响午餐的立法是否还在原地打转然后呢为什么行政院不能把这个院板送来而且我还要提醒张廖次长在我们\n\n20\n00:06:32,506 --> 00:06:56,394\n一起在當第九任立委的時候我們就把這一個營養午餐把它提出來為什麼到現在我們兩個各自站在對面來做質詢的時候他還在原地打戰我想這個是一個從法的角度看但是從實質的內容法就是要提就是要提出更好的一個環境譬如說要增加人力要補助一些弱勢的這個孩童或者說這個營養三張一Q的這個食材擴大補助其實在108年最早108年嘛那時候我當立委的時候當然對對\n\n21\n00:07:01,816 --> 00:07:17,896\n那時候提出來之後事實上大家所提的那雖然說各界的意見不太一樣在整合中但事實上從一百零九年開始當時的潘部長就說法沒有修我們資源先給所以不管是有關這個公立國中國民中小學的有沒有問題\n\n22\n00:07:18,777 --> 00:07:36,510\n但是我現在是回應到法的一個層面我要想了解教育部對於專法的一個態度我也看看你昨天很晚才送過來完全就是告訴我們說地方如何如何我們就一一來去看現在確實是遇到了就是說本來我們在去年11月20號已經送警政院就把布板的草案送了\n\n23\n00:07:36,670 --> 00:07:50,537\n所以已經有不滿了但是12月20號的時候就發生了中央財政收支發放法的問題那我們都知道說剛才我在報告的時候有提過那事實上根據地方制度法來講學校國民中學小學的學校營養餐事實上我們一一來釐清我們不要每一次都\n\n24\n00:07:55,259 --> 00:08:19,285\n都推給我們地方沒有問題我們現在來看嘛這其實最大的一個困難點還是到底我們政府可以投資多好的經費跟人力到底未來是中央跟地方治權怎麼樣分配這是後半段我現在只問到一個專法的部分你剛剛特別提到了院有院的板只是我們現在都沒看到院板長成什麼樣子我們修法會增加很多經費的投入就是提到地方的權限\n\n25\n00:08:20,225 --> 00:08:26,047\n就是說你修了法之後到底是要中央付地方所以你告訴我就說我們從那麼早開始到現在次長我們從我們第九任開始到現在所以因為裁劃法的關係讓原本要通過的部分開始又卡關所以我們現在裁劃法又開始要到釋憲又要開始到部分所以你是要告訴我們這麼樣一步可能可以推行的部分我們要等到釋憲完之後才要重新來看看這個釋權該怎麼樣\n\n26\n00:08:47,136 --> 00:08:54,640\n事實上從108年開始談營養午餐我們109年到111年的專案計畫已經投入了75.6億的補助我懂剛剛已經報告過了每年現在對於弱勢學童對於營養午餐的出發對於三張IQ每年74億這個沒有問題那修法之後會這樣這怎麼會沒有問題不是我下次告訴你說你現在這個專法你們的態度是你們行政院會有這個版本出來現在只是在事權的部分我們需要做一個釐清嘛\n\n27\n00:09:13,971 --> 00:09:16,294\n沒有錯你增加的費用跟現在負擔的費用都必須重新釐清嘛過去都有中央來租每年每年出74億修法之後最少再增加26億會有100億以上那100億都還是中央來出嗎那如果要地方出地方政府\n\n28\n00:09:31,231 --> 00:09:54,016\n我现在只是从时间轴的部分来说在这个才化法没有公布之前我们从第九任到现在显然我们都没有看到院版那现在有了一个才化法之后你告诉我因为才化法的部分才有我们就要追溯到更前面为什么因为我们要讨教事权之前还有很多条文因为我们有公办公益有公办民益有民办民益有非常多\n\n29\n00:09:54,876 --> 00:10:11,193\n其實營養五三除了沒有專法以外學校衛生法的第十六條二十二條二十三條之一二三我覺得這個東西才是我們應該好好來釐清的我們應該好好來釐清特別是我要特別提到的像我們美濃的龍渡國小裡面你大家知道嗎他們食農教育做得非常的好\n\n30\n00:10:11,653 --> 00:10:28,204\n而且他们都可以自给自足可是呢就是因为有这样的一个专法中央厨房下来反而让这些做得非常好的一个地方的偏远的地方他们反而因为这样子让他们很多的很好的一个计划就因此受到这样的部分我们现在没有专法也是可以做嘛\n\n31\n00:10:28,604 --> 00:10:48,758\n所以我才說在專法的過程當中是權先我們是後面在這專法部分我跟你討論說以類似相對的部分來看每個地區都有他們自己的不同的部分我們如何能夠用這樣的法能夠保障這些原有的一個特色又可以讓很多的孩子因為這樣子而得到更好的一個部分我覺得這才是一個我們要討論的部分\n\n32\n00:10:50,839 --> 00:11:05,915\n所以這就因地制宜嘛地方政府我們要尊重所以我才說在這個專法的這個層面上面有沒有把這些問題來考量至於你剛剛跟我一次argue那個只是在我們事權的分配上面那我們先從法條上面先一一來做釐清而且我所argue的點就是說我們這麼久以來\n\n33\n00:11:08,517 --> 00:11:35,738\n這個行政院的版本我們沒有看到要看到之前突然告訴我一個裁劃法讓我們這邊又要等到這個部分才能夠看到這是我剛剛跟你說我沒有否認說你這個市權該怎麼分配但是這個條文上面是否可以把我們剛剛所在乎的各地方的部分我覺得這才是他們的一個重點這部分我們會朝這個方向來協助我們有佈版啦隨時有佈版行程有佈版好那就請我們剛剛講的即時澄清版請馬上讓我們可以看得到好謝謝謝謝各位謝謝\n\n34\n00:11:38,684 --> 00:11:39,085\n謝謝柯志恩委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n209\t4253\t委員提出質詢謝謝我們請張次長請張次長張廖次長備詢\n10325\t37622\t谢谢科委员次长好我想在进入营养午餐专法的探讨之前我们先来澄清一件事情我想在这个人民投家的宣讲当中包括你们的委员还有包括非常多的网络在流传家长都在抗议说今年他们的小孩好不容易考上公费留考但是因为我们在野党删减的公费留学奖金的预算让这些学生没有办法留学\n38422\t44304\t我想請張次長特別來說一下今年的留學獎金有被刪減或被凍結嗎這個部分柯木據我了解是沒有那在這個個案我們有去了解那我請那個細節我請那個我不是個案現在網路到處流傳然後你可不可以告訴我就你理解沒有來我先告訴你一下就我們查出來的資料當中很明顯的告訴我們這個教育部編列的國際人才是有一次\n67612\t85651\t14亿8千多公费留考的举办留学生奖学金包括贷款是3407万这完全是从我们的预算书里面特别出来的鼓励学生国外交流是4.8亿鼓励赴世界一流大学的奖学金是2.3亿还有世界大学合作的1.95亿\n86872\t112888\t還不包括留學貸款的兩千多萬還有新南向國鄉產業實習的五億總共留學的獎學金是九億四千萬比去年七億還多增加一點三億請告訴我為什麼有這麼多的謠傳包括你們的立委在公開的場合告訴我們因為我們山我們洞所以讓這些學生沒有辦法出去請給我一個清楚的答案我想委員的這個資料非常清楚我們得到資料是這樣子\n114181\t129366\t所以说太夸张太离谱好不好太离谱我的分贝98好不好这就是一个部分嘛所以我只能说教部有做澄清吗你们如果选择沉默难道是配合这样的一个谣言吗\n130146\t137090\t我想不會去配合啦就是說因為網路有太多消息我們拿不進去澄清啦那次長我們給你們一個機會教育部一向就需要把家長的concern放在心上因為這非常的重要不要讓家長去我也覺得啊留學好不容易考上怎麼可能會刪減呢所以呢你們有個即時新聞澄清網\n150117\t167960\t我上网去看了一下真的不好意思我也不知道是什么理由停留在112年12月8号现在是应该我们有计算应该是114年吧对不对这叫及时澄清网次长你觉得你们是不是需要在这个地方做一个澄清让我们家长来放心一下呢\n168200\t186205\t好我想這部分我們會來檢討來謝謝你所以說基本上趕快來做一個澄清啊否則我也希望教育部在你們的帶領之下面其實都非常理性的有如果讓家長有不安心的地方請趕快做一些澄清然後請問一下次長你們的預算什麼時候要送來解凍\n187401\t201188\t我們預算已經在簽合了好 你趕快送上簡東以關跟教育有關的我們在場委員其實都會很願意來趕快去做趕快送上來我很怕有一些單位不送他好像到最後又是因為我們在動我們在閃我們覺得撐不起這樣子的一個謠言好不好謠言滿天飛\n205430\t224711\t请把立即做澄清我们希望我们今天或明天看到让全国有公费留学的家长们放心在野党没有山也没有洞这是一个正确的资料好接下来我要问一下就是因为如此我还是忍不住要发声一下因为这位是跟我们是大学一样的同僚大学教授愿意能够\n225191\t243946\t来到这个政府机关来服务我觉得都应该给予鼓励然后呢你们国立科学博物馆的馆长其实上是一个非常负责认真的我们过去呢去年也曾经到科博馆里面来做参访非常认真的告诉我们科博馆未来整个方向那我不晓得为什么会有逼退馆长这样的一件事情\n244386\t259104\t而且呢让所有的研究员研究员都在做研究他们竟然就是连署而且上诉到赖总统的部分里面请问你们现在也只是代理为什么要让一个很优秀的馆长却是被你们教育部给被请辞\n259805\t275381\t我想我這邊得到資料是交管長是在2月16號歸屆嘛那他是屆掉他的任期是到7月31號對有什麼理由要讓人家在2月的時候就走人這個屆掉沒有所謂我聽到的是屆掉沒有所謂的任期啦就是說這個他就是屆掉然後就是歸這個時間到\n276903\t304628\t是他的理由事实上他想做到7月30而且他还在医院的时候呢曾经给全管发一封信希望大家能够为科普馆的未来能够做好一些预备的动作难道是因为他每一次都来我们这边希望我们周围能够帮他们争取预算争取到让你们教育部觉得这样的一个做法好像是太麻烦然后呢就因此明明是7月的时候可以让他去归件你们却在2月时候请人家走人\n305387\t317829\t我想教育部這邊人事單位跟我講的說他們只有收到請辭的一個這個對不起次長他是被請辭你要不要再去了解一下雖然往事已矣但是我認為一個非常優秀的館長而且願意為科博館來因為對我來說的話他是一個科博館的損失是你們教育部的損失你有機會的話你也認識這位館長然後呢基於對於他的優秀跟認真我覺得有必要因為這對於未來\n332972\t353264\t所有要被借掉到我们教育部各单位里面来从事公职的教授而言这都是一个指标我请次长可以好好的来了解一下谢谢你了我们来了解对这是一个非常重要的我们不需要一个优秀的人才因为是怎么样不同的理由特别是跟庄委不断的希望能够给予更多的经费然后让大家觉得这个\n353744\t372757\t认真过度以至于让其他人觉得到底发生什么事我希望这种事情不要再发生在教育部所属的单位所以请次长好好去了解一下接下来我们就来看看营养午餐的这个公法了我想我去年五月的时候在当招委的时候我就召开了学校午餐法制化的一个公听会那时候次长\n373137\t391408\t当然不是你是一个林明玉政策来出席而且公听会到距离现在是到底多久了十个月过去了然后呢请问有关于学校影响午餐的立法是否还在原地打转然后呢为什么行政院不能把这个院板送来而且我还要提醒张廖次长在我们\n392506\t416394\t一起在當第九任立委的時候我們就把這一個營養午餐把它提出來為什麼到現在我們兩個各自站在對面來做質詢的時候他還在原地打戰我想這個是一個從法的角度看但是從實質的內容法就是要提就是要提出更好的一個環境譬如說要增加人力要補助一些弱勢的這個孩童或者說這個營養三張一Q的這個食材擴大補助其實在108年最早108年嘛那時候我當立委的時候當然對對\n421816\t437896\t那時候提出來之後事實上大家所提的那雖然說各界的意見不太一樣在整合中但事實上從一百零九年開始當時的潘部長就說法沒有修我們資源先給所以不管是有關這個公立國中國民中小學的有沒有問題\n438777\t456510\t但是我現在是回應到法的一個層面我要想了解教育部對於專法的一個態度我也看看你昨天很晚才送過來完全就是告訴我們說地方如何如何我們就一一來去看現在確實是遇到了就是說本來我們在去年11月20號已經送警政院就把布板的草案送了\n456670\t470537\t所以已經有不滿了但是12月20號的時候就發生了中央財政收支發放法的問題那我們都知道說剛才我在報告的時候有提過那事實上根據地方制度法來講學校國民中學小學的學校營養餐事實上我們一一來釐清我們不要每一次都\n475259\t499285\t都推給我們地方沒有問題我們現在來看嘛這其實最大的一個困難點還是到底我們政府可以投資多好的經費跟人力到底未來是中央跟地方治權怎麼樣分配這是後半段我現在只問到一個專法的部分你剛剛特別提到了院有院的板只是我們現在都沒看到院板長成什麼樣子我們修法會增加很多經費的投入就是提到地方的權限\n500225\t506047\t就是說你修了法之後到底是要中央付地方所以你告訴我就說我們從那麼早開始到現在次長我們從我們第九任開始到現在所以因為裁劃法的關係讓原本要通過的部分開始又卡關所以我們現在裁劃法又開始要到釋憲又要開始到部分所以你是要告訴我們這麼樣一步可能可以推行的部分我們要等到釋憲完之後才要重新來看看這個釋權該怎麼樣\n527136\t534640\t事實上從108年開始談營養午餐我們109年到111年的專案計畫已經投入了75.6億的補助我懂剛剛已經報告過了每年現在對於弱勢學童對於營養午餐的出發對於三張IQ每年74億這個沒有問題那修法之後會這樣這怎麼會沒有問題不是我下次告訴你說你現在這個專法你們的態度是你們行政院會有這個版本出來現在只是在事權的部分我們需要做一個釐清嘛\n553971\t556294\t沒有錯你增加的費用跟現在負擔的費用都必須重新釐清嘛過去都有中央來租每年每年出74億修法之後最少再增加26億會有100億以上那100億都還是中央來出嗎那如果要地方出地方政府\n571231\t594016\t我现在只是从时间轴的部分来说在这个才化法没有公布之前我们从第九任到现在显然我们都没有看到院版那现在有了一个才化法之后你告诉我因为才化法的部分才有我们就要追溯到更前面为什么因为我们要讨教事权之前还有很多条文因为我们有公办公益有公办民益有民办民益有非常多\n594876\t611193\t其實營養五三除了沒有專法以外學校衛生法的第十六條二十二條二十三條之一二三我覺得這個東西才是我們應該好好來釐清的我們應該好好來釐清特別是我要特別提到的像我們美濃的龍渡國小裡面你大家知道嗎他們食農教育做得非常的好\n611653\t628204\t而且他们都可以自给自足可是呢就是因为有这样的一个专法中央厨房下来反而让这些做得非常好的一个地方的偏远的地方他们反而因为这样子让他们很多的很好的一个计划就因此受到这样的部分我们现在没有专法也是可以做嘛\n628604\t648758\t所以我才說在專法的過程當中是權先我們是後面在這專法部分我跟你討論說以類似相對的部分來看每個地區都有他們自己的不同的部分我們如何能夠用這樣的法能夠保障這些原有的一個特色又可以讓很多的孩子因為這樣子而得到更好的一個部分我覺得這才是一個我們要討論的部分\n650839\t665915\t所以這就因地制宜嘛地方政府我們要尊重所以我才說在這個專法的這個層面上面有沒有把這些問題來考量至於你剛剛跟我一次argue那個只是在我們事權的分配上面那我們先從法條上面先一一來做釐清而且我所argue的點就是說我們這麼久以來\n668517\t695738\t這個行政院的版本我們沒有看到要看到之前突然告訴我一個裁劃法讓我們這邊又要等到這個部分才能夠看到這是我剛剛跟你說我沒有否認說你這個市權該怎麼分配但是這個條文上面是否可以把我們剛剛所在乎的各地方的部分我覺得這才是他們的一個重點這部分我們會朝這個方向來協助我們有佈版啦隨時有佈版行程有佈版好 那就請我們剛剛講的即時澄清版請馬上讓我們可以看得到好 謝謝 謝謝各位 謝謝\n698684\t699085\t謝謝柯志恩委員質詢\n","txt":"委員提出質詢謝謝我們請張次長請張次長張廖次長備詢\n谢谢科委员次长好我想在进入营养午餐专法的探讨之前我们先来澄清一件事情我想在这个人民投家的宣讲当中包括你们的委员还有包括非常多的网络在流传家长都在抗议说今年他们的小孩好不容易考上公费留考但是因为我们在野党删减的公费留学奖金的预算让这些学生没有办法留学\n我想請張次長特別來說一下今年的留學獎金有被刪減或被凍結嗎這個部分柯木據我了解是沒有那在這個個案我們有去了解那我請那個細節我請那個我不是個案現在網路到處流傳然後你可不可以告訴我就你理解沒有來我先告訴你一下就我們查出來的資料當中很明顯的告訴我們這個教育部編列的國際人才是有一次\n14亿8千多公费留考的举办留学生奖学金包括贷款是3407万这完全是从我们的预算书里面特别出来的鼓励学生国外交流是4.8亿鼓励赴世界一流大学的奖学金是2.3亿还有世界大学合作的1.95亿\n還不包括留學貸款的兩千多萬還有新南向國鄉產業實習的五億總共留學的獎學金是九億四千萬比去年七億還多增加一點三億請告訴我為什麼有這麼多的謠傳包括你們的立委在公開的場合告訴我們因為我們山我們洞所以讓這些學生沒有辦法出去請給我一個清楚的答案我想委員的這個資料非常清楚我們得到資料是這樣子\n所以说太夸张太离谱好不好太离谱我的分贝98好不好这就是一个部分嘛所以我只能说教部有做澄清吗你们如果选择沉默难道是配合这样的一个谣言吗\n我想不會去配合啦就是說因為網路有太多消息我們拿不進去澄清啦那次長我們給你們一個機會教育部一向就需要把家長的concern放在心上因為這非常的重要不要讓家長去我也覺得啊留學好不容易考上怎麼可能會刪減呢所以呢你們有個即時新聞澄清網\n我上网去看了一下真的不好意思我也不知道是什么理由停留在112年12月8号现在是应该我们有计算应该是114年吧对不对这叫及时澄清网次长你觉得你们是不是需要在这个地方做一个澄清让我们家长来放心一下呢\n好我想這部分我們會來檢討來謝謝你所以說基本上趕快來做一個澄清啊否則我也希望教育部在你們的帶領之下面其實都非常理性的有如果讓家長有不安心的地方請趕快做一些澄清然後請問一下次長你們的預算什麼時候要送來解凍\n我們預算已經在簽合了好 你趕快送上簡東以關跟教育有關的我們在場委員其實都會很願意來趕快去做趕快送上來我很怕有一些單位不送他好像到最後又是因為我們在動我們在閃我們覺得撐不起這樣子的一個謠言好不好謠言滿天飛\n请把立即做澄清我们希望我们今天或明天看到让全国有公费留学的家长们放心在野党没有山也没有洞这是一个正确的资料好接下来我要问一下就是因为如此我还是忍不住要发声一下因为这位是跟我们是大学一样的同僚大学教授愿意能够\n来到这个政府机关来服务我觉得都应该给予鼓励然后呢你们国立科学博物馆的馆长其实上是一个非常负责认真的我们过去呢去年也曾经到科博馆里面来做参访非常认真的告诉我们科博馆未来整个方向那我不晓得为什么会有逼退馆长这样的一件事情\n而且呢让所有的研究员研究员都在做研究他们竟然就是连署而且上诉到赖总统的部分里面请问你们现在也只是代理为什么要让一个很优秀的馆长却是被你们教育部给被请辞\n我想我這邊得到資料是交管長是在2月16號歸屆嘛那他是屆掉他的任期是到7月31號對有什麼理由要讓人家在2月的時候就走人這個屆掉沒有所謂我聽到的是屆掉沒有所謂的任期啦就是說這個他就是屆掉然後就是歸這個時間到\n是他的理由事实上他想做到7月30而且他还在医院的时候呢曾经给全管发一封信希望大家能够为科普馆的未来能够做好一些预备的动作难道是因为他每一次都来我们这边希望我们周围能够帮他们争取预算争取到让你们教育部觉得这样的一个做法好像是太麻烦然后呢就因此明明是7月的时候可以让他去归件你们却在2月时候请人家走人\n我想教育部這邊人事單位跟我講的說他們只有收到請辭的一個這個對不起次長他是被請辭你要不要再去了解一下雖然往事已矣但是我認為一個非常優秀的館長而且願意為科博館來因為對我來說的話他是一個科博館的損失是你們教育部的損失你有機會的話你也認識這位館長然後呢基於對於他的優秀跟認真我覺得有必要因為這對於未來\n所有要被借掉到我们教育部各单位里面来从事公职的教授而言这都是一个指标我请次长可以好好的来了解一下谢谢你了我们来了解对这是一个非常重要的我们不需要一个优秀的人才因为是怎么样不同的理由特别是跟庄委不断的希望能够给予更多的经费然后让大家觉得这个\n认真过度以至于让其他人觉得到底发生什么事我希望这种事情不要再发生在教育部所属的单位所以请次长好好去了解一下接下来我们就来看看营养午餐的这个公法了我想我去年五月的时候在当招委的时候我就召开了学校午餐法制化的一个公听会那时候次长\n当然不是你是一个林明玉政策来出席而且公听会到距离现在是到底多久了十个月过去了然后呢请问有关于学校影响午餐的立法是否还在原地打转然后呢为什么行政院不能把这个院板送来而且我还要提醒张廖次长在我们\n一起在當第九任立委的時候我們就把這一個營養午餐把它提出來為什麼到現在我們兩個各自站在對面來做質詢的時候他還在原地打戰我想這個是一個從法的角度看但是從實質的內容法就是要提就是要提出更好的一個環境譬如說要增加人力要補助一些弱勢的這個孩童或者說這個營養三張一Q的這個食材擴大補助其實在108年最早108年嘛那時候我當立委的時候當然對對\n那時候提出來之後事實上大家所提的那雖然說各界的意見不太一樣在整合中但事實上從一百零九年開始當時的潘部長就說法沒有修我們資源先給所以不管是有關這個公立國中國民中小學的有沒有問題\n但是我現在是回應到法的一個層面我要想了解教育部對於專法的一個態度我也看看你昨天很晚才送過來完全就是告訴我們說地方如何如何我們就一一來去看現在確實是遇到了就是說本來我們在去年11月20號已經送警政院就把布板的草案送了\n所以已經有不滿了但是12月20號的時候就發生了中央財政收支發放法的問題那我們都知道說剛才我在報告的時候有提過那事實上根據地方制度法來講學校國民中學小學的學校營養餐事實上我們一一來釐清我們不要每一次都\n都推給我們地方沒有問題我們現在來看嘛這其實最大的一個困難點還是到底我們政府可以投資多好的經費跟人力到底未來是中央跟地方治權怎麼樣分配這是後半段我現在只問到一個專法的部分你剛剛特別提到了院有院的板只是我們現在都沒看到院板長成什麼樣子我們修法會增加很多經費的投入就是提到地方的權限\n就是說你修了法之後到底是要中央付地方所以你告訴我就說我們從那麼早開始到現在次長我們從我們第九任開始到現在所以因為裁劃法的關係讓原本要通過的部分開始又卡關所以我們現在裁劃法又開始要到釋憲又要開始到部分所以你是要告訴我們這麼樣一步可能可以推行的部分我們要等到釋憲完之後才要重新來看看這個釋權該怎麼樣\n事實上從108年開始談營養午餐我們109年到111年的專案計畫已經投入了75.6億的補助我懂剛剛已經報告過了每年現在對於弱勢學童對於營養午餐的出發對於三張IQ每年74億這個沒有問題那修法之後會這樣這怎麼會沒有問題不是我下次告訴你說你現在這個專法你們的態度是你們行政院會有這個版本出來現在只是在事權的部分我們需要做一個釐清嘛\n沒有錯你增加的費用跟現在負擔的費用都必須重新釐清嘛過去都有中央來租每年每年出74億修法之後最少再增加26億會有100億以上那100億都還是中央來出嗎那如果要地方出地方政府\n我现在只是从时间轴的部分来说在这个才化法没有公布之前我们从第九任到现在显然我们都没有看到院版那现在有了一个才化法之后你告诉我因为才化法的部分才有我们就要追溯到更前面为什么因为我们要讨教事权之前还有很多条文因为我们有公办公益有公办民益有民办民益有非常多\n其實營養五三除了沒有專法以外學校衛生法的第十六條二十二條二十三條之一二三我覺得這個東西才是我們應該好好來釐清的我們應該好好來釐清特別是我要特別提到的像我們美濃的龍渡國小裡面你大家知道嗎他們食農教育做得非常的好\n而且他们都可以自给自足可是呢就是因为有这样的一个专法中央厨房下来反而让这些做得非常好的一个地方的偏远的地方他们反而因为这样子让他们很多的很好的一个计划就因此受到这样的部分我们现在没有专法也是可以做嘛\n所以我才說在專法的過程當中是權先我們是後面在這專法部分我跟你討論說以類似相對的部分來看每個地區都有他們自己的不同的部分我們如何能夠用這樣的法能夠保障這些原有的一個特色又可以讓很多的孩子因為這樣子而得到更好的一個部分我覺得這才是一個我們要討論的部分\n所以這就因地制宜嘛地方政府我們要尊重所以我才說在這個專法的這個層面上面有沒有把這些問題來考量至於你剛剛跟我一次argue那個只是在我們事權的分配上面那我們先從法條上面先一一來做釐清而且我所argue的點就是說我們這麼久以來\n這個行政院的版本我們沒有看到要看到之前突然告訴我一個裁劃法讓我們這邊又要等到這個部分才能夠看到這是我剛剛跟你說我沒有否認說你這個市權該怎麼分配但是這個條文上面是否可以把我們剛剛所在乎的各地方的部分我覺得這才是他們的一個重點這部分我們會朝這個方向來協助我們有佈版啦隨時有佈版行程有佈版好 那就請我們剛剛講的即時澄清版請馬上讓我們可以看得到好 謝謝 謝謝各位 謝謝\n謝謝柯志恩委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.209 --> 00:04.253\n委員提出質詢謝謝我們請張次長請張次長張廖次長備詢\n\n00:10.325 --> 00:37.622\n谢谢科委员次长好我想在进入营养午餐专法的探讨之前我们先来澄清一件事情我想在这个人民投家的宣讲当中包括你们的委员还有包括非常多的网络在流传家长都在抗议说今年他们的小孩好不容易考上公费留考但是因为我们在野党删减的公费留学奖金的预算让这些学生没有办法留学\n\n00:38.422 --> 00:44.304\n我想請張次長特別來說一下今年的留學獎金有被刪減或被凍結嗎這個部分柯木據我了解是沒有那在這個個案我們有去了解那我請那個細節我請那個我不是個案現在網路到處流傳然後你可不可以告訴我就你理解沒有來我先告訴你一下就我們查出來的資料當中很明顯的告訴我們這個教育部編列的國際人才是有一次\n\n01:07.612 --> 01:25.651\n14亿8千多公费留考的举办留学生奖学金包括贷款是3407万这完全是从我们的预算书里面特别出来的鼓励学生国外交流是4.8亿鼓励赴世界一流大学的奖学金是2.3亿还有世界大学合作的1.95亿\n\n01:26.872 --> 01:52.888\n還不包括留學貸款的兩千多萬還有新南向國鄉產業實習的五億總共留學的獎學金是九億四千萬比去年七億還多增加一點三億請告訴我為什麼有這麼多的謠傳包括你們的立委在公開的場合告訴我們因為我們山我們洞所以讓這些學生沒有辦法出去請給我一個清楚的答案我想委員的這個資料非常清楚我們得到資料是這樣子\n\n01:54.181 --> 02:09.366\n所以说太夸张太离谱好不好太离谱我的分贝98好不好这就是一个部分嘛所以我只能说教部有做澄清吗你们如果选择沉默难道是配合这样的一个谣言吗\n\n02:10.146 --> 02:17.090\n我想不會去配合啦就是說因為網路有太多消息我們拿不進去澄清啦那次長我們給你們一個機會教育部一向就需要把家長的concern放在心上因為這非常的重要不要讓家長去我也覺得啊留學好不容易考上怎麼可能會刪減呢所以呢你們有個即時新聞澄清網\n\n02:30.117 --> 02:47.960\n我上网去看了一下真的不好意思我也不知道是什么理由停留在112年12月8号现在是应该我们有计算应该是114年吧对不对这叫及时澄清网次长你觉得你们是不是需要在这个地方做一个澄清让我们家长来放心一下呢\n\n02:48.200 --> 03:06.205\n好我想這部分我們會來檢討來謝謝你所以說基本上趕快來做一個澄清啊否則我也希望教育部在你們的帶領之下面其實都非常理性的有如果讓家長有不安心的地方請趕快做一些澄清然後請問一下次長你們的預算什麼時候要送來解凍\n\n03:07.401 --> 03:21.188\n我們預算已經在簽合了好你趕快送上簡東以關跟教育有關的我們在場委員其實都會很願意來趕快去做趕快送上來我很怕有一些單位不送他好像到最後又是因為我們在動我們在閃我們覺得撐不起這樣子的一個謠言好不好謠言滿天飛\n\n03:25.430 --> 03:44.711\n请把立即做澄清我们希望我们今天或明天看到让全国有公费留学的家长们放心在野党没有山也没有洞这是一个正确的资料好接下来我要问一下就是因为如此我还是忍不住要发声一下因为这位是跟我们是大学一样的同僚大学教授愿意能够\n\n03:45.191 --> 04:03.946\n来到这个政府机关来服务我觉得都应该给予鼓励然后呢你们国立科学博物馆的馆长其实上是一个非常负责认真的我们过去呢去年也曾经到科博馆里面来做参访非常认真的告诉我们科博馆未来整个方向那我不晓得为什么会有逼退馆长这样的一件事情\n\n04:04.386 --> 04:19.104\n而且呢让所有的研究员研究员都在做研究他们竟然就是连署而且上诉到赖总统的部分里面请问你们现在也只是代理为什么要让一个很优秀的馆长却是被你们教育部给被请辞\n\n04:19.805 --> 04:35.381\n我想我這邊得到資料是交管長是在2月16號歸屆嘛那他是屆掉他的任期是到7月31號對有什麼理由要讓人家在2月的時候就走人這個屆掉沒有所謂我聽到的是屆掉沒有所謂的任期啦就是說這個他就是屆掉然後就是歸這個時間到\n\n04:36.903 --> 05:04.628\n是他的理由事实上他想做到7月30而且他还在医院的时候呢曾经给全管发一封信希望大家能够为科普馆的未来能够做好一些预备的动作难道是因为他每一次都来我们这边希望我们周围能够帮他们争取预算争取到让你们教育部觉得这样的一个做法好像是太麻烦然后呢就因此明明是7月的时候可以让他去归件你们却在2月时候请人家走人\n\n05:05.387 --> 05:17.829\n我想教育部這邊人事單位跟我講的說他們只有收到請辭的一個這個對不起次長他是被請辭你要不要再去了解一下雖然往事已矣但是我認為一個非常優秀的館長而且願意為科博館來因為對我來說的話他是一個科博館的損失是你們教育部的損失你有機會的話你也認識這位館長然後呢基於對於他的優秀跟認真我覺得有必要因為這對於未來\n\n05:32.972 --> 05:53.264\n所有要被借掉到我们教育部各单位里面来从事公职的教授而言这都是一个指标我请次长可以好好的来了解一下谢谢你了我们来了解对这是一个非常重要的我们不需要一个优秀的人才因为是怎么样不同的理由特别是跟庄委不断的希望能够给予更多的经费然后让大家觉得这个\n\n05:53.744 --> 06:12.757\n认真过度以至于让其他人觉得到底发生什么事我希望这种事情不要再发生在教育部所属的单位所以请次长好好去了解一下接下来我们就来看看营养午餐的这个公法了我想我去年五月的时候在当招委的时候我就召开了学校午餐法制化的一个公听会那时候次长\n\n06:13.137 --> 06:31.408\n当然不是你是一个林明玉政策来出席而且公听会到距离现在是到底多久了十个月过去了然后呢请问有关于学校影响午餐的立法是否还在原地打转然后呢为什么行政院不能把这个院板送来而且我还要提醒张廖次长在我们\n\n06:32.506 --> 06:56.394\n一起在當第九任立委的時候我們就把這一個營養午餐把它提出來為什麼到現在我們兩個各自站在對面來做質詢的時候他還在原地打戰我想這個是一個從法的角度看但是從實質的內容法就是要提就是要提出更好的一個環境譬如說要增加人力要補助一些弱勢的這個孩童或者說這個營養三張一Q的這個食材擴大補助其實在108年最早108年嘛那時候我當立委的時候當然對對\n\n07:01.816 --> 07:17.896\n那時候提出來之後事實上大家所提的那雖然說各界的意見不太一樣在整合中但事實上從一百零九年開始當時的潘部長就說法沒有修我們資源先給所以不管是有關這個公立國中國民中小學的有沒有問題\n\n07:18.777 --> 07:36.510\n但是我現在是回應到法的一個層面我要想了解教育部對於專法的一個態度我也看看你昨天很晚才送過來完全就是告訴我們說地方如何如何我們就一一來去看現在確實是遇到了就是說本來我們在去年11月20號已經送警政院就把布板的草案送了\n\n07:36.670 --> 07:50.537\n所以已經有不滿了但是12月20號的時候就發生了中央財政收支發放法的問題那我們都知道說剛才我在報告的時候有提過那事實上根據地方制度法來講學校國民中學小學的學校營養餐事實上我們一一來釐清我們不要每一次都\n\n07:55.259 --> 08:19.285\n都推給我們地方沒有問題我們現在來看嘛這其實最大的一個困難點還是到底我們政府可以投資多好的經費跟人力到底未來是中央跟地方治權怎麼樣分配這是後半段我現在只問到一個專法的部分你剛剛特別提到了院有院的板只是我們現在都沒看到院板長成什麼樣子我們修法會增加很多經費的投入就是提到地方的權限\n\n08:20.225 --> 08:26.047\n就是說你修了法之後到底是要中央付地方所以你告訴我就說我們從那麼早開始到現在次長我們從我們第九任開始到現在所以因為裁劃法的關係讓原本要通過的部分開始又卡關所以我們現在裁劃法又開始要到釋憲又要開始到部分所以你是要告訴我們這麼樣一步可能可以推行的部分我們要等到釋憲完之後才要重新來看看這個釋權該怎麼樣\n\n08:47.136 --> 08:54.640\n事實上從108年開始談營養午餐我們109年到111年的專案計畫已經投入了75.6億的補助我懂剛剛已經報告過了每年現在對於弱勢學童對於營養午餐的出發對於三張IQ每年74億這個沒有問題那修法之後會這樣這怎麼會沒有問題不是我下次告訴你說你現在這個專法你們的態度是你們行政院會有這個版本出來現在只是在事權的部分我們需要做一個釐清嘛\n\n09:13.971 --> 09:16.294\n沒有錯你增加的費用跟現在負擔的費用都必須重新釐清嘛過去都有中央來租每年每年出74億修法之後最少再增加26億會有100億以上那100億都還是中央來出嗎那如果要地方出地方政府\n\n09:31.231 --> 09:54.016\n我现在只是从时间轴的部分来说在这个才化法没有公布之前我们从第九任到现在显然我们都没有看到院版那现在有了一个才化法之后你告诉我因为才化法的部分才有我们就要追溯到更前面为什么因为我们要讨教事权之前还有很多条文因为我们有公办公益有公办民益有民办民益有非常多\n\n09:54.876 --> 10:11.193\n其實營養五三除了沒有專法以外學校衛生法的第十六條二十二條二十三條之一二三我覺得這個東西才是我們應該好好來釐清的我們應該好好來釐清特別是我要特別提到的像我們美濃的龍渡國小裡面你大家知道嗎他們食農教育做得非常的好\n\n10:11.653 --> 10:28.204\n而且他们都可以自给自足可是呢就是因为有这样的一个专法中央厨房下来反而让这些做得非常好的一个地方的偏远的地方他们反而因为这样子让他们很多的很好的一个计划就因此受到这样的部分我们现在没有专法也是可以做嘛\n\n10:28.604 --> 10:48.758\n所以我才說在專法的過程當中是權先我們是後面在這專法部分我跟你討論說以類似相對的部分來看每個地區都有他們自己的不同的部分我們如何能夠用這樣的法能夠保障這些原有的一個特色又可以讓很多的孩子因為這樣子而得到更好的一個部分我覺得這才是一個我們要討論的部分\n\n10:50.839 --> 11:05.915\n所以這就因地制宜嘛地方政府我們要尊重所以我才說在這個專法的這個層面上面有沒有把這些問題來考量至於你剛剛跟我一次argue那個只是在我們事權的分配上面那我們先從法條上面先一一來做釐清而且我所argue的點就是說我們這麼久以來\n\n11:08.517 --> 11:35.738\n這個行政院的版本我們沒有看到要看到之前突然告訴我一個裁劃法讓我們這邊又要等到這個部分才能夠看到這是我剛剛跟你說我沒有否認說你這個市權該怎麼分配但是這個條文上面是否可以把我們剛剛所在乎的各地方的部分我覺得這才是他們的一個重點這部分我們會朝這個方向來協助我們有佈版啦隨時有佈版行程有佈版好那就請我們剛剛講的即時澄清版請馬上讓我們可以看得到好謝謝謝謝各位謝謝\n\n11:38.684 --> 11:39.085\n謝謝柯志恩委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.209,"end":4.253,"text":"委員提出質詢謝謝我們請張次長請張次長張廖次長備詢"},{"start":10.325,"end":37.622,"text":"谢谢科委员次长好我想在进入营养午餐专法的探讨之前我们先来澄清一件事情我想在这个人民投家的宣讲当中包括你们的委员还有包括非常多的网络在流传家长都在抗议说今年他们的小孩好不容易考上公费留考但是因为我们在野党删减的公费留学奖金的预算让这些学生没有办法留学"},{"start":38.422,"end":44.304,"text":"我想請張次長特別來說一下今年的留學獎金有被刪減或被凍結嗎這個部分柯木據我了解是沒有那在這個個案我們有去了解那我請那個細節我請那個我不是個案現在網路到處流傳然後你可不可以告訴我就你理解沒有來我先告訴你一下就我們查出來的資料當中很明顯的告訴我們這個教育部編列的國際人才是有一次"},{"start":67.612,"end":85.651,"text":"14亿8千多公费留考的举办留学生奖学金包括贷款是3407万这完全是从我们的预算书里面特别出来的鼓励学生国外交流是4.8亿鼓励赴世界一流大学的奖学金是2.3亿还有世界大学合作的1.95亿"},{"start":86.872,"end":112.888,"text":"還不包括留學貸款的兩千多萬還有新南向國鄉產業實習的五億總共留學的獎學金是九億四千萬比去年七億還多增加一點三億請告訴我為什麼有這麼多的謠傳包括你們的立委在公開的場合告訴我們因為我們山我們洞所以讓這些學生沒有辦法出去請給我一個清楚的答案我想委員的這個資料非常清楚我們得到資料是這樣子"},{"start":114.181,"end":129.366,"text":"所以说太夸张太离谱好不好太离谱我的分贝98好不好这就是一个部分嘛所以我只能说教部有做澄清吗你们如果选择沉默难道是配合这样的一个谣言吗"},{"start":130.146,"end":137.09,"text":"我想不會去配合啦就是說因為網路有太多消息我們拿不進去澄清啦那次長我們給你們一個機會教育部一向就需要把家長的concern放在心上因為這非常的重要不要讓家長去我也覺得啊留學好不容易考上怎麼可能會刪減呢所以呢你們有個即時新聞澄清網"},{"start":150.117,"end":167.96,"text":"我上网去看了一下真的不好意思我也不知道是什么理由停留在112年12月8号现在是应该我们有计算应该是114年吧对不对这叫及时澄清网次长你觉得你们是不是需要在这个地方做一个澄清让我们家长来放心一下呢"},{"start":168.2,"end":186.205,"text":"好我想這部分我們會來檢討來謝謝你所以說基本上趕快來做一個澄清啊否則我也希望教育部在你們的帶領之下面其實都非常理性的有如果讓家長有不安心的地方請趕快做一些澄清然後請問一下次長你們的預算什麼時候要送來解凍"},{"start":187.401,"end":201.188,"text":"我們預算已經在簽合了好 你趕快送上簡東以關跟教育有關的我們在場委員其實都會很願意來趕快去做趕快送上來我很怕有一些單位不送他好像到最後又是因為我們在動我們在閃我們覺得撐不起這樣子的一個謠言好不好謠言滿天飛"},{"start":205.43,"end":224.711,"text":"请把立即做澄清我们希望我们今天或明天看到让全国有公费留学的家长们放心在野党没有山也没有洞这是一个正确的资料好接下来我要问一下就是因为如此我还是忍不住要发声一下因为这位是跟我们是大学一样的同僚大学教授愿意能够"},{"start":225.191,"end":243.946,"text":"来到这个政府机关来服务我觉得都应该给予鼓励然后呢你们国立科学博物馆的馆长其实上是一个非常负责认真的我们过去呢去年也曾经到科博馆里面来做参访非常认真的告诉我们科博馆未来整个方向那我不晓得为什么会有逼退馆长这样的一件事情"},{"start":244.386,"end":259.104,"text":"而且呢让所有的研究员研究员都在做研究他们竟然就是连署而且上诉到赖总统的部分里面请问你们现在也只是代理为什么要让一个很优秀的馆长却是被你们教育部给被请辞"},{"start":259.805,"end":275.381,"text":"我想我這邊得到資料是交管長是在2月16號歸屆嘛那他是屆掉他的任期是到7月31號對有什麼理由要讓人家在2月的時候就走人這個屆掉沒有所謂我聽到的是屆掉沒有所謂的任期啦就是說這個他就是屆掉然後就是歸這個時間到"},{"start":276.903,"end":304.628,"text":"是他的理由事实上他想做到7月30而且他还在医院的时候呢曾经给全管发一封信希望大家能够为科普馆的未来能够做好一些预备的动作难道是因为他每一次都来我们这边希望我们周围能够帮他们争取预算争取到让你们教育部觉得这样的一个做法好像是太麻烦然后呢就因此明明是7月的时候可以让他去归件你们却在2月时候请人家走人"},{"start":305.387,"end":317.829,"text":"我想教育部這邊人事單位跟我講的說他們只有收到請辭的一個這個對不起次長他是被請辭你要不要再去了解一下雖然往事已矣但是我認為一個非常優秀的館長而且願意為科博館來因為對我來說的話他是一個科博館的損失是你們教育部的損失你有機會的話你也認識這位館長然後呢基於對於他的優秀跟認真我覺得有必要因為這對於未來"},{"start":332.972,"end":353.264,"text":"所有要被借掉到我们教育部各单位里面来从事公职的教授而言这都是一个指标我请次长可以好好的来了解一下谢谢你了我们来了解对这是一个非常重要的我们不需要一个优秀的人才因为是怎么样不同的理由特别是跟庄委不断的希望能够给予更多的经费然后让大家觉得这个"},{"start":353.744,"end":372.757,"text":"认真过度以至于让其他人觉得到底发生什么事我希望这种事情不要再发生在教育部所属的单位所以请次长好好去了解一下接下来我们就来看看营养午餐的这个公法了我想我去年五月的时候在当招委的时候我就召开了学校午餐法制化的一个公听会那时候次长"},{"start":373.137,"end":391.408,"text":"当然不是你是一个林明玉政策来出席而且公听会到距离现在是到底多久了十个月过去了然后呢请问有关于学校影响午餐的立法是否还在原地打转然后呢为什么行政院不能把这个院板送来而且我还要提醒张廖次长在我们"},{"start":392.506,"end":416.394,"text":"一起在當第九任立委的時候我們就把這一個營養午餐把它提出來為什麼到現在我們兩個各自站在對面來做質詢的時候他還在原地打戰我想這個是一個從法的角度看但是從實質的內容法就是要提就是要提出更好的一個環境譬如說要增加人力要補助一些弱勢的這個孩童或者說這個營養三張一Q的這個食材擴大補助其實在108年最早108年嘛那時候我當立委的時候當然對對"},{"start":421.816,"end":437.896,"text":"那時候提出來之後事實上大家所提的那雖然說各界的意見不太一樣在整合中但事實上從一百零九年開始當時的潘部長就說法沒有修我們資源先給所以不管是有關這個公立國中國民中小學的有沒有問題"},{"start":438.777,"end":456.51,"text":"但是我現在是回應到法的一個層面我要想了解教育部對於專法的一個態度我也看看你昨天很晚才送過來完全就是告訴我們說地方如何如何我們就一一來去看現在確實是遇到了就是說本來我們在去年11月20號已經送警政院就把布板的草案送了"},{"start":456.67,"end":470.537,"text":"所以已經有不滿了但是12月20號的時候就發生了中央財政收支發放法的問題那我們都知道說剛才我在報告的時候有提過那事實上根據地方制度法來講學校國民中學小學的學校營養餐事實上我們一一來釐清我們不要每一次都"},{"start":475.259,"end":499.285,"text":"都推給我們地方沒有問題我們現在來看嘛這其實最大的一個困難點還是到底我們政府可以投資多好的經費跟人力到底未來是中央跟地方治權怎麼樣分配這是後半段我現在只問到一個專法的部分你剛剛特別提到了院有院的板只是我們現在都沒看到院板長成什麼樣子我們修法會增加很多經費的投入就是提到地方的權限"},{"start":500.225,"end":506.047,"text":"就是說你修了法之後到底是要中央付地方所以你告訴我就說我們從那麼早開始到現在次長我們從我們第九任開始到現在所以因為裁劃法的關係讓原本要通過的部分開始又卡關所以我們現在裁劃法又開始要到釋憲又要開始到部分所以你是要告訴我們這麼樣一步可能可以推行的部分我們要等到釋憲完之後才要重新來看看這個釋權該怎麼樣"},{"start":527.136,"end":534.64,"text":"事實上從108年開始談營養午餐我們109年到111年的專案計畫已經投入了75.6億的補助我懂剛剛已經報告過了每年現在對於弱勢學童對於營養午餐的出發對於三張IQ每年74億這個沒有問題那修法之後會這樣這怎麼會沒有問題不是我下次告訴你說你現在這個專法你們的態度是你們行政院會有這個版本出來現在只是在事權的部分我們需要做一個釐清嘛"},{"start":553.971,"end":556.294,"text":"沒有錯你增加的費用跟現在負擔的費用都必須重新釐清嘛過去都有中央來租每年每年出74億修法之後最少再增加26億會有100億以上那100億都還是中央來出嗎那如果要地方出地方政府"},{"start":571.231,"end":594.016,"text":"我现在只是从时间轴的部分来说在这个才化法没有公布之前我们从第九任到现在显然我们都没有看到院版那现在有了一个才化法之后你告诉我因为才化法的部分才有我们就要追溯到更前面为什么因为我们要讨教事权之前还有很多条文因为我们有公办公益有公办民益有民办民益有非常多"},{"start":594.876,"end":611.193,"text":"其實營養五三除了沒有專法以外學校衛生法的第十六條二十二條二十三條之一二三我覺得這個東西才是我們應該好好來釐清的我們應該好好來釐清特別是我要特別提到的像我們美濃的龍渡國小裡面你大家知道嗎他們食農教育做得非常的好"},{"start":611.653,"end":628.204,"text":"而且他们都可以自给自足可是呢就是因为有这样的一个专法中央厨房下来反而让这些做得非常好的一个地方的偏远的地方他们反而因为这样子让他们很多的很好的一个计划就因此受到这样的部分我们现在没有专法也是可以做嘛"},{"start":628.604,"end":648.758,"text":"所以我才說在專法的過程當中是權先我們是後面在這專法部分我跟你討論說以類似相對的部分來看每個地區都有他們自己的不同的部分我們如何能夠用這樣的法能夠保障這些原有的一個特色又可以讓很多的孩子因為這樣子而得到更好的一個部分我覺得這才是一個我們要討論的部分"},{"start":650.839,"end":665.915,"text":"所以這就因地制宜嘛地方政府我們要尊重所以我才說在這個專法的這個層面上面有沒有把這些問題來考量至於你剛剛跟我一次argue那個只是在我們事權的分配上面那我們先從法條上面先一一來做釐清而且我所argue的點就是說我們這麼久以來"},{"start":668.517,"end":695.738,"text":"這個行政院的版本我們沒有看到要看到之前突然告訴我一個裁劃法讓我們這邊又要等到這個部分才能夠看到這是我剛剛跟你說我沒有否認說你這個市權該怎麼分配但是這個條文上面是否可以把我們剛剛所在乎的各地方的部分我覺得這才是他們的一個重點這部分我們會朝這個方向來協助我們有佈版啦隨時有佈版行程有佈版好 那就請我們剛剛講的即時澄清版請馬上讓我們可以看得到好 謝謝 謝謝各位 謝謝"},{"start":698.684,"end":699.085,"text":"謝謝柯志恩委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":174,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（10時）謝謝。我們請張廖次長。"],["主席：請張廖次長備詢。"],["張廖次長萬堅：謝謝柯委員。"],["柯委員志恩：次長好。在進入營養午餐專法探討之前，我們先來澄清一件事情。","在人民頭家的宣講當中，由於你們的委員及網路上所流傳的內容，以致家長都來抗議說，今年他們的小孩好不容易考上公費留考，但因為在野黨刪減了公費留學獎金預算，讓這些學生沒有辦法留學。我想請次長特別說明一下，今年的留學獎金有被刪減或被凍結嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：這科目據我了解是沒有，至於個案我們有去了解，細節我請……"],["柯委員志恩：不是個案！現在網路到處流傳……"],["張廖次長萬堅：就是網路流傳的個案。"],["柯委員志恩：你可不可以告訴我，既然你的理解是沒有……我先告訴你，就我們查出來的資料明顯告訴我們，教育部編列的國際人才經費為十四億八千多萬，其中公費留考的舉辦、留學生獎學金，包括貸款在內為3,407萬，這是預算書裡面寫的。至於鼓勵學生國外交流是4.8億，鼓勵赴世界一流大學的獎學金是2.3億，與世界大學合作的部分為1.95億，這還不包括留學貸款的兩千多萬及新南向國家產業實習的五億多，總共留學獎學金是9億4,000萬，比去年的7億還增加1.3億。請告訴我，為什麼有這麼多的謠傳？包括你們的立委在公開場合說，我們刪、我們凍，所以讓這些學生沒有辦法出去！請給我一個清楚的答案！"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員的資料非常清楚，我們得到的資料也是這樣子。"],["柯委員志恩：所以太誇張、太離譜了，好不好？太離譜！我的分貝有98，好不好？這是一個。教育部有澄清嗎？你們的選擇沉默，難道是在配合這樣的謠言嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我想我們不會去配合，只是網路有太多消息我們來不及澄清。"],["柯委員志恩：次長，我們給你一個機會，畢竟教育部一向需要把家長的concern放在心上，所以這非常重要，不要讓家長去……我也覺得好不容易考上留學，我們怎麼可能會刪減？雖然你們有即時新聞澄清網，我還上網去看了一下，真是不好意思，不曉得為了什麼，網頁停留在112年12月8日。如果我沒有記錯，現在應該是114年，對不對？這叫即時澄清網？次長，你覺得你們需不需要在這地方澄清讓家長放心呢？"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，這部分我們會來檢討……"],["柯委員志恩：謝謝你！基本上就是趕快澄清，我也希望教育部在你們的帶領之下都能非常理性。所以如果家長有不安心的地方，請趕快澄清。請問次長，你們的報告什麼時候要送來讓預算可以解凍？"],["張廖次長萬堅：預算已經在簽核了。"],["柯委員志恩：好，你趕快送來解凍，凡是跟教育有關的，相信我們在場的委員都會很願意支持，所以趕快去做、趕快送上來。我很怕如果有一些單位不送上來，到最後又說是因為我們在凍、我們在刪所致，我們絕對撐不起這樣的謠言，好不好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：不會，已經簽了。"],["柯委員志恩：謠言滿天飛，所以請立即澄清，希望今天或明天就可以看到，讓全國有孩子要公費留學的家長們放心，在野黨沒有刪也沒有凍，這是一個正確的資料。","接下來我要問一下。正因為如此，所以我忍不住要發聲。這位是我們的大學同僚，大學教授願意來政府機關服務，我覺得都應該給予鼓勵。據我所知，國立科學博物館館長非常負責認真，去年我們也曾經到科博館參訪，他非常認真告訴我們科博館未來的方向。我不曉得為什麼會有逼退館長這樣一件事情，而且讓所有的研究員連署，研究員都是在做研究，但他們竟然都去連署，而且上書給到賴總統，請問你們現在也只是代理，為什麼要讓一個很優秀的館長，卻是被你們教育部給被請辭？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我想我這邊得到的資料，焦館長是在2月16號歸建，他是借調……"],["柯委員志恩：他的任期是到7月31號！"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，但是……"],["柯委員志恩：有什麼理由要讓人家在2月時就走了？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我聽到的是借調沒有所謂的任期啦，就是說，他就是借調，然後時間到他就歸建……"],["柯委員志恩：那是他的理由，事實上，他想做到7月30日，而且他在1月的時候，還曾經給全館發一封信，希望大家能夠為科博館的未來做好一些預備的動作，難道是因為他每一次都來我們這邊，希望我們召委能夠幫他們爭取預算，爭取到讓你們教育部覺得這樣的作法好像是太麻煩，然後就因此，明明是7月的時候可以讓他去歸建，你們卻在2月時候請人家走人！"],["張廖次長萬堅：我想教育部這邊，人事單位跟我講的是，他們只有收到請辭的一個……"],["柯委員志恩：對不起，次長，他是被請辭！你要不要再去了解一下？雖然往事已矣。"],["張廖次長萬堅：被請辭？我想人事……"],["柯委員志恩：但是我認為一個非常優秀的館長，而且願意為科博館來……對我來說，他的離開是科博館的損失，是你們教育部的損失，有機會的話，你也認識這位館長，然後基於對於他的優秀跟認真，我覺得有必要，因為對於未來所有要被借調到教育部各單位裡面來從事公職的教授而言，這都是一個指標，我請次長可以好好來了解一下。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，謝謝你，我們來了解。"],["柯委員志恩：這是非常重要的，我們不希望一個優秀的人才，因為是什麼樣不同的理由，特別是跟召委不斷地溝通，希望能夠給予更多的經費，然後讓大家覺得這個人認真過度，以至於讓其他人覺得到底發生什麼事，我希望這種事情不要再發生在教育部所屬的單位，所以請次長好好去了解一下。","接下來，我們就來看看這個營養午餐的專法，我想去年5月我在當召委的時候，我就召開過學校營養午餐法制化的一個公聽會，那時候次長當然不是你，而是由林明裕政次來出席，而且公聽會距離現在到底多久了？10個月過去了，請問有關於學校營養午餐的立法是否還在原地打轉？為什麼行政院不能把院版送來？而且我還要提醒張廖次長，在我們一起當第9屆立委的時候，我們就把這一個營養午餐專法提出來，為什麼到現在，我們兩個各自站在對面來做質詢的時候，它還在原地打轉？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我想這個是一個法，從法的角度看，但從實質的內容，法就是要提出更好的環境，譬如說，增加人力，要補助一些弱勢的孩童，或者是針對三章一Q的食材擴大補助，其實在108年，最早是108年嘛那時候是我當立委的時候……"],["柯委員志恩：當然。"],["張廖次長萬堅：那時候提出來之後，雖然說各界的意見不太一樣，但事實上，在整合中，從109年開始，當時的潘部長就說法沒有修我們資源先給，所以不管是有關公立國中、國民中小學的午餐……"],["柯委員志恩：有，沒有問題，但是我現在只回應到法的層面，我想要了解教育部對於專法的態度，我也看到你們昨天很晚才送過來，完全就是告訴我們地方如何如何，我們就一一來去看。"],["張廖次長萬堅：沒有，現在確實是遇到了，就是說本來我們在去年11月20號已經送行政院，就是把部版的草案送了。"],["柯委員志恩：所以已經有部版了？"],["張廖次長萬堅：但是12月20號的時候，就是發生了中央財政收支劃分法的問題，我們都知道，剛才我在報告的時候也有提過，事實上，根據地方制度法來講，學校、國民中學、小學的學校營養午餐，它的權責是在地方。"],["柯委員志恩：等一下，次長，我們一一來釐清，我們不要每一次都推給地方，沒有問題，我們現在來看嘛，其實最大的困難點還是在於到底我們政府可以投注多少的經費跟人力？到底未來是中央跟地方事權怎麼樣分配？這是後半段，我現在只問到專法的部分，你剛剛特別提到了，院有院的版，只是我們現在都沒有看到院版長成什麼樣子。"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們修法會增加很多經費的投入……"],["柯委員志恩：沒錯！"],["張廖次長萬堅：但涉及到地方的權限，就是說你修了法之後，到底是要中央付還是地方付……"],["柯委員志恩：所以你告訴我，就是說，我們從那麼早開始到現在，次長，我們從第9屆開始到到現在，所以因為財劃法的關係，讓原本要通過的部分開始又卡關，所以現在財劃法又開始要到釋憲，又要開始到那個部分，所以你現在是告訴我們，這麼樣一部可能可以推行的法案，我們要等到釋憲完之後才要重新來看看這事權該怎麼樣劃分？"],["張廖次長萬堅：柯委員，你誤會了，事實上從108年開始談營養午餐，我們109年到111年的專案計畫，已經投入了75.6億。"],["柯委員志恩：我懂，剛剛已經報告過了。"],["張廖次長萬堅：然後現在每年對於弱勢學童，對於營養午餐的廚房……"],["柯委員志恩：這沒有問題。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對於三章一Q，每年74億。"],["柯委員志恩：這個沒有問題，你剛才已經報告過了。"],["張廖次長萬堅：那修法之後會這樣……"],["柯委員志恩：對。"],["張廖次長萬堅：這怎麼會沒有問題呢？在財劃法修正之後……"],["柯委員志恩：不是，我現在只告訴你說，現在針對這個專法，你們的態度是你們行政院會有版本出來，現在只是在事權的部分我們需要做一個釐清嘛！"],["張廖次長萬堅：沒有錯。"],["柯委員志恩：你現在確定這個部分沒有問題嘛。"],["張廖次長萬堅：沒有錯，增加的費用跟現在負擔的費用都必須重新釐清嘛，過去都由中央來出，每年……"],["柯委員志恩：那你在財劃法之前……"],["張廖次長萬堅：每年出74億，修法之後最少再增加26億，會有100億以上，那這100億都還是中央來出嗎？如果要地方出，地方政府要經過協商耶。"],["柯委員志恩：次長，我現在只是從時間軸的部分來說，在財劃法沒有公布之前，從第9屆到現在，顯然我們都沒有看到院版，現在有了一個財劃法之後，你告訴我，因為財劃法的部分才有，我們就要追溯到更前面，為什麼？因為我們要討教事權之前，還有很多條文，因為我們有公辦公營、有公辦民營、有民辦民營，有非常多。"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員，你很清楚啦，其實營養午餐不是沒有，除了沒有專法以外，學校衛生法的第十六條、第二十二條、第二十三條之一、之二、之三，都是在規範……"],["柯委員志恩：我覺得這個東西才是我們應該好好來釐清的，特別是我要特別提到像美濃的龍肚國小，你大概知道嘛，他們的食農教育做得非常好，而且他們都可以自給自足，可是就是因為有這樣一個專法，中央廚房下來，反而讓這些做得非常好的地方、偏遠的地方，他們反而因為這樣子，讓他們很多很好的計畫，就因此受到這樣……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們現在沒有專法也是可以做嘛。"],["柯委員志恩：是，所以我才說，在專法的過程當中，事權先，我們是後面，在這個專法部分，我要跟你討論，類似像這個部分來說，每個地區都有他們自己不同的部分，我們如何能夠用這樣的法，能夠保障這些原有的特色，又可以讓很多的孩子因為這樣子而可以得到更好的照顧，我覺得這才是一個我們要討論的部分。"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員所提的非常非常好，所以這就是因地制宜嘛。"],["柯委員志恩：對嘛！"],["張廖次長萬堅：地方政府我們要尊重。"],["柯委員志恩：所以我才說，在這個專法的層面上面，有沒有把這些問題納入考量？至於你剛剛跟我一直argue的部分，那個只是在我們事權的分配上面，我們先從法條上一一來做釐清，而且我所argue的點就是說，這麼久以來，行政院的版本，我們就是沒有看到，要看到之前，突然告訴我一個財劃法，讓我們這邊又要等到這個部分才能夠看到，這是我剛剛跟你說的，我沒有否認說你這個事權該怎麼分配，但是這個條文上面，是否可以把我們剛剛所在乎的各地方的部分，我覺得這才是最大的重點。"],["張廖次長萬堅：謝謝委員的指正，這部分我們會朝這個方向來好協助，我們有部版啦，是有部版的。"],["柯委員志恩：好，那就請將我們剛剛講的，即時澄清版請馬上讓我們可以看得到。"],["張廖次長萬堅：謝謝，謝謝柯委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員質詢，次長請回座。","接著我們繼續質詢，有請萬美玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-3","speakers":["葛如鈞","洪孟楷","王育敏","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","陳秀寳","葉元之","柯志恩","萬美玲","林沛祥","林宜瑾","劉書彬","郭昱晴","范雲","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張雅琳","吳沛憶","林倩綺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李彥秀","吳思瑤","李坤城","陳培瑜"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「學校供餐法草案」：(一) 審查委員范雲等16人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(二) 審\n查委員馬文君等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、 (三) 審查委員魯明哲等24人擬具「學校供餐\n法草案」案、(四) 審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(五) 審查委員洪孟楷等\n20 人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、 ( 六 ) 審查委員黃健豪等 20 人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、\n( 七) 審查委員楊瓊瓔等21 人擬具「學校供餐條例草案」案、 ( 八) 審查委員林倩綺等 21 人擬具\n「學校午餐及營養促進條例草案」案、 ( 九 ) 審查委員鍾佳濱等 17 人擬具「學校午餐法草案」\n案、(十) 審查委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育法草案」案、(十一) 審查委員張雅\n琳等17人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育法草案」案、(十二) 審查委員柯志恩等21人擬具「學校午\n餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、(十三) 審查委員陳培瑜等26人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育條例草\n案」案、(十四) 審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「高級中等以下學校及幼兒園午餐供餐法草案」案、\n(十五) 審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草案」案、(十六) 審查委員葉元之等\n20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草案」案、(十七) 審查委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「學校飲食法草\n案」案、(十八) 審查委員林宜瑾等33人擬具「學校飲食法草案」案、(十九) 審查委員劉建國等\n17人擬具「學校飲食教育法草案」案、(二十) 審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「學校營養飲食供餐\n法草案」案、(二十一) 審查委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「高級中等以下學校供餐及飲食教育條例草\n案」案、(二十二) 審查委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」\n案、(二十三) 審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案（僅進行詢答）；二、審\n查「運動產業發展條例」：(一) 審查委員柯志恩等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及\n第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(二) 審查委員張智倫等 18 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(三) 審查委員洪孟楷等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第\n二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(四) 審查委員王鴻薇等 19 人擬具「運動產業發展\n條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(五) 審查委員林倩綺等22人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例第四條條文修正草案」案、(六) 審查委員沈發惠等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二\n條條文修正草案」案、(七) 審查委員許宇甄等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二\n十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二條、第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」、(九)審查委員楊瓊瓔等27人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1142901_00003"}}}