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{\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 954.982, \"end\": 955.262, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 955.262, \"end\": 955.702, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 955.702, \"end\": 955.983, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 955.983, \"end\": 956.103, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 956.103, \"end\": 956.923, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 956.923, \"end\": 957.063, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 957.063, \"end\": 957.344, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 957.344, \"end\": 957.544, \"score\": 0.691}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 957.544, \"end\": 957.964, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 957.964, \"end\": 958.144, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 958.144, \"end\": 958.264, \"score\": 0.565}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 958.264, \"end\": 958.605, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 958.605, \"end\": 958.765, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 958.765, \"end\": 958.945, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 958.945, \"end\": 959.105, \"score\": 0.676}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 959.105, \"end\": 959.305, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 959.305, \"end\": 959.465, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 959.465, \"end\": 959.646, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 959.646, \"end\": 959.666, \"score\": 0.301}, {\"word\": \"軌\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 959.666, \"end\": 959.846, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 959.846, \"end\": 959.866, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 959.866, \"end\": 959.886, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,877 --> 00:00:04,077\n郭文貴議員\n\n2\n00:00:21,169 --> 00:00:37,501\n台電準備要提出漲價方案而且預估這個方案是整體電價平均漲幅6%民生住宅以及小商店用電幅度會更高介於11%到33%\n\n3\n00:00:40,143 --> 00:01:07,630\n以目前家庭平均每月用電338度的非夏月電價來做比較估計每一個月的電費要增加100多塊所以在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教更傳出台電這一波的調漲鎖定了長年動漲的330度以下的民生住宅以及小商店用電\n\n4\n00:01:08,570 --> 00:01:33,564\n那麼台電要爭取調升過去的水準也就每度大概是兩塊到三塊這一波的民生跟小商店用電呢330度以上也會採取用電越多漲幅越大的原則部長你有沒有知道這個事情那我們經濟部的立場究竟是什麼我們仍舊經濟部也是建議調漲嗎請說明\n\n5\n00:01:36,736 --> 00:02:03,092\n報告委員我想你也非常清楚電價的調漲不是經濟部決定的電價的調漲是電價審議委員會他們多數的人好所以部長你有聽聞這樣子的方案嗎這一個部分請教基本上都不是我們台電裡面討論的方向好所以剛剛本席所說的媒體暴露是沒有這回事嗎\n\n6\n00:02:03,752 --> 00:02:29,953\n媒體有很多他們會去所以你不知道這個訊息我不知道這個訊息好一個不知道訊息所以本席要請教經濟部的立場在目前台灣的面向你認為你仍舊在經濟部的立場還是以漲價為主嗎經濟部的立場就是綜合考量這個目前的經濟的動盪以及國人的需求\n\n7\n00:02:32,455 --> 00:02:48,479\n部長你這樣說就對了因為你是經濟部你一定會綜合考量所以在你綜合考量立即要到下個月四月份那你認為在目前綜合考量的情況之下你現在還會認為漲價是好的方案嗎如果是台電今天是民營企業的話\n\n8\n00:02:55,558 --> 00:03:19,855\n它勢必要漲價但是台電現在是國營的企業它必須要肩負國家照顧國人的這樣的一個任務所以這個任務我們非常的要重視所以剛才我想委員你所指教的部分也就是我們過去數年動場的最重要的一個部分\n\n9\n00:03:20,635 --> 00:03:45,297\n那我們現在這樣就是說我們要請這個國家來補助台電然後因為過去動漲造成他的這個負債那這個負債已經舉債到92%了我們希望是這樣就是說如果能夠撥補給我們讓我們的這個舉債的空間有的話那對我們來講我想我們會做其他更好的努力啦\n\n10\n00:03:46,078 --> 00:04:00,916\n那我們現在就是有一點這個因為負債過大那剛才也有人講說你不要再增加舉債了啦舉債的話你這個利息更多等等所以我要跟委員報告您剛才所關心的部分也是我們關心的部分\n\n11\n00:04:02,025 --> 00:04:26,670\n但是我們沒有辦法在這個價格調整之前做出一個肯定的決定所以我們會把這些訊息包括委員所關心的這個內容都提供給電價審議委員會由他們斟酌讓他們去討論我相信在那些專家學者之間他們會討論出一個比較有智慧的這個決定好\n\n12\n00:04:28,650 --> 00:04:33,832\n剛剛部長我運用了一分多鐘的時間讓你說明我真的希望聽到政府的立場第一個你會提供民眾的聲音因為現在如果你一漲價通膨是非常的恐怖因為目前我們看到如果再漲尤其像媒體所披露的這個方案CPI可能會上升到2%甚至以上\n\n13\n00:04:56,380 --> 00:04:59,144\n這樣的一個情況市民大家有一個心聲長了就回不了頭尤其在現階段你身為經濟部部長你必須綜合台灣目前整個民生以及產業的樣態\n\n14\n00:05:11,661 --> 00:05:34,975\n那麼這點是非常重要也請你將你剛剛善意的回應告訴店家委員會務必在現階段如果連市民小店家民生用店都如此的要高漲到更高的水準我想這是民眾沒有辦法接受的我們目的政府要好好的讓民眾好生活因為\n\n15\n00:05:35,675 --> 00:06:00,107\n在工業這個電價的部分呢最近這幾年也已經漲了數次在目前我們統計平均的單價已經高達4.29元所以本市還是要奉勸在先階段你要怎麼樣讓民生小店家能夠先安內先不要漲才不會導致通盆你願意這樣子的方向來建議給電價委員會嗎\n\n16\n00:06:03,889 --> 00:06:22,630\n謝謝委員的叮嚀我們一定會把你這些內容來向這個電價審議委員會報告不過我在這個地方向你說明一下我們基本上的原則對工業電價來講就是不能夠高於我們的競爭對手國\n\n17\n00:06:25,015 --> 00:06:41,426\n對所以你總是有一個防堵這個目的就是要真正照顧我們的產業嘛但是另外一項也就是我一直強調的本席民生跟小店家現在苦不堪言絕對不適合黨在這個階段我一定會提供給這個審議委員會\n\n18\n00:06:45,649 --> 00:06:52,275\n我相信你有這個能力因為我不希望你成為一個只有會漲價人家號稱你是漲價部長我不希望這個名稱因為卓榮泰卓榮泰說他是AI內閣我也不希望你是漲價部長卓榮泰不是AI內閣而成為漲價內閣\n\n19\n00:07:05,467 --> 00:07:24,767\n您剛才回答是你是經濟部長嗎我不是漲價部長你不是漲價部長所以你務必也不是水電部長對也不是水電部長好有gas所以我希望我們好好地來照顧民生這是一個非常重要的一個均衡的樣態接下來本席要請教\n\n20\n00:07:27,334 --> 00:07:37,983\n麥綠能那麼菲律賓的這個案子本席也聽到您說您會去實際上的一個這個考察什麼時候會去考察我們大概在這個\n\n21\n00:07:42,835 --> 00:08:00,429\n確定了以後會分批啦就是實際上面我個人什麼時候可以去可能就是我如果能夠請假出國的話那麼我就會去你非常想立即去是不是不是你一定有一個評估不要笑這個對台灣來講你一直漲價你解決不了台電的困境你的能源政策你要怎麼樣去調整這非常的重要\n\n22\n00:08:08,075 --> 00:08:19,162\n是我們的專業的部分包括我們的能源局包括我們的公研院包括我們相關的這些專家他們會先走大約什麼時候應該是月底之前吧月底之前會出發那本席要請教因為本席在前半年一直跟你討論你也有回應但是你告訴我們的都是具可行性那具可行性也就是還在空想\n\n23\n00:08:35,191 --> 00:08:42,874\n還沒有實際行動但是我們剛剛通道你是具可行性但是你剛剛有說了你月底以前專家學者會出發是不是月底以前這是你現在才告訴我們的因為在你書面答詢沒有這些資料所以我們要實際去討論接下來本席請問那到底你的工程費用\n\n24\n00:08:59,159 --> 00:09:09,123\n是多少到底你要採用的運電的方式你要用什麼樣的方式你到底是原先說的海底電纜線還是這個電池的電池船的一個運輸那麼時程大概是什麼時候請說明報告委員這個我們是不是可以另外給你報告\n\n25\n00:09:18,266 --> 00:09:28,534\n好你給我報告你有一個方案但是我還是要問你因為這個對我們國家來講是很重要的一個很重大的一個工程所以本下要請教那麼是不是台飛台飛也採用了什麼樣的方式來做合作我想這一點是非常的關鍵請說明有沒有合作這個部分我們不方便在這裡不方便講沒關係有沒有合作好有沒有合作\n\n26\n00:09:45,503 --> 00:09:58,397\n沒有合作好那我們也是希望也就是認真在推動是不是我們當然是積極的在推動好是一個積極在推動所以我們也希望\n\n27\n00:09:59,522 --> 00:10:21,123\n在整個能源的配比方式要怎麼做而不是就像本席剛才所說的這幾年民生也漲了幾次我不希望你成為一個漲價的部長那你剛才也說了你不是漲價部長最後一個議題本席要跟你討論的也就是我們這個大阪的這個\n\n28\n00:10:24,594 --> 00:10:30,239\n市博那當時我們在2022年的時候我回想我們一直在討論這20億我們要怎麼花那我們有一個條件因為以往在上海市博是沒有我們政府出資是台商自己募款那現在我們當然支持台灣的產業能夠在世界來展露\n\n29\n00:10:47,515 --> 00:10:54,459\n所以因此最後我們協商的結果也就是20億一毛不刪希望大家努力去做對不對\n\n30\n00:10:56,158 --> 00:11:13,969\n是不是報告委員這個是我們努力跟日本友好的關係我們本來我們在這個展覽世博的展我們不是會員所以我們是根本就不會受到邀請去參與這個有主辦過不是啦這個就是本席要跟你討論的當時你承諾的是會多方的讓台灣來出現\n\n31\n00:11:21,073 --> 00:11:48,947\n甚至持續的透過管道判以這個希望以台灣管的面向來展出那現在我們是以teamwork的方式但是最近好像聽聞有媒體暴露也就是披露說日方認為台灣經濟部的官方網站在本月的6日發布的聲明內容是希望能夠更明確\n\n32\n00:11:51,499 --> 00:11:58,525\n去說明不是以政府的立場不是以台灣兩個字的名義來參展有沒有這回事請問有沒有這回事我們不是這個國際展覽局BIE的成員所以沒有辦法直接參展本席要請教日方有沒有最近6號有沒有這回事\n\n33\n00:12:13,637 --> 00:12:40,571\n你們經濟部有沒有收到有沒有收到請你告訴我們我們接受日本的邀請這個已經是非常大人家非常給我們很大的所以我們二十億全力支持所以本席請教其中有變化的時候是不是陳儒媒體所說經濟部有沒有接到這樣子的訊息這樣子的這個不管是文也好或者是我們的電子網有沒有\n\n34\n00:12:44,073 --> 00:12:59,413\n報告委員對於報載的事情你認為那個信度高嗎你不用問我認不認因為你是主席棄者你可以給社會大眾說到底有還是沒有我個人是沒有收到這樣的一個訊息你個人沒有經濟部有沒有\n\n35\n00:13:00,407 --> 00:13:22,952\n因為你是代表經濟部你不是個人那我剛才已經跟您報告就是我沒有收到你沒有收到好因為本席也不希望我們被污蔑這個就是我們在質詢當中能夠好好的去溝通說明清楚我們謝謝委員的這個垂詢其實我們到日本參展這件事情我們基本上是沒有\n\n36\n00:13:23,852 --> 00:13:37,626\n不是會員沒有資格去參展但是日本基於友好的這樣的一個關係邀請我們去參展所以這裡面當然有一些對我們有惡意的國家就會來挑撥離間會來見縫插針\n\n37\n00:13:41,249 --> 00:13:56,907\n所以我向委員這一部分你要了解我們同仁之間在穿梭這個案件的時候非常非常努力的千萬不要落入別人千萬不要落入這個輕痛愁快的這樣的一個境界\n\n38\n00:13:57,347 --> 00:14:20,064\n部長你現在說明的立場也就是全國國民的心聲我們也非常的希望政府部門可以說明清楚我們並沒有照你剛才說的我們經濟並沒有收到這樣的訊息我們要讓國人安心因為20億大家全力的支持也就是希望讓台灣在世界能夠發光發熱是不是\n\n39\n00:14:22,165 --> 00:14:34,519\n我們去接受這個邀請去參展到別人家去做客我想我們有很多的事情必須要這按照主人的這個條件主人的這個規定來進行\n\n40\n00:14:37,142 --> 00:15:06,320\n不可能我们恣意乱行很多的人要求我们做一些我认为是没有这个太有意义的部分这个反而让我们自爱难行我想委员的这个好意应该也是这个部分所以让我们共同努力实际上让所有去看到在去参加这个展览的人都能够了解我们这个所谓的techworld这个馆是表现出\n\n41\n00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:30,862\n我們非常優異的部分對所以在2022年部長你我本席再次強調也再次提醒因為你在這裡有承諾也就是說我們既然不是在國家區我們好不容易也可以爭取到所以20億全力的支持也就是您所說的希望能夠透過各方的管道能夠讓台灣台灣\n\n42\n00:15:32,844 --> 00:15:59,886\n台灣的一個意象能夠在這當中來展露我想這是對於我們全國國民大家都非常的期待我也希望有任何不正確的訊息能夠透過經濟部也要嚴格去管控去說明清楚而不是隨波逐流我們的目的也就是希望讓我們的產業都能夠再次的強調是在世界看得到而且是跟世界接軌謝謝是謝謝委員好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3877\t4077\t郭文貴議員\n21169\t37501\t台電準備要提出漲價方案而且預估這個方案是整體電價平均漲幅6%民生住宅以及小商店用電幅度會更高介於11%到33%\n40143\t67630\t以目前家庭平均每月用電338度的非夏月電價來做比較估計每一個月的電費要增加100多塊所以在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教更傳出台電這一波的調漲鎖定了長年動漲的330度以下的民生住宅以及小商店用電\n68570\t93564\t那麼台電要爭取調升過去的水準也就每度大概是兩塊到三塊這一波的民生跟小商店用電呢330度以上也會採取用電越多漲幅越大的原則部長你有沒有知道這個事情那我們經濟部的立場究竟是什麼我們仍舊經濟部也是建議調漲嗎請說明\n96736\t123092\t報告委員我想你也非常清楚電價的調漲不是經濟部決定的電價的調漲是電價審議委員會他們多數的人好 所以部長你有聽聞這樣子的方案嗎這一個部分請教基本上都不是我們台電裡面討論的方向好 所以剛剛本席所說的媒體暴露是沒有這回事嗎\n123752\t149953\t媒體有很多他們會去所以你不知道這個訊息我不知道這個訊息好一個不知道訊息所以本席要請教經濟部的立場在目前台灣的面向你認為你仍舊在經濟部的立場還是以漲價為主嗎經濟部的立場就是綜合考量這個目前的經濟的動盪以及國人的需求\n152455\t168479\t部長你這樣說就對了因為你是經濟部你一定會綜合考量所以在你綜合考量立即要到下個月四月份那你認為在目前綜合考量的情況之下你現在還會認為漲價是好的方案嗎如果是台電今天是民營企業的話\n175558\t199855\t它勢必要漲價但是台電現在是國營的企業它必須要肩負國家照顧國人的這樣的一個任務所以這個任務我們非常的要重視所以剛才我想委員你所指教的部分也就是我們過去數年動場的最重要的一個部分\n200635\t225297\t那我們現在這樣就是說我們要請這個國家來補助台電然後因為過去動漲造成他的這個負債那這個負債已經舉債到92%了我們希望是這樣就是說如果能夠撥補給我們讓我們的這個舉債的空間有的話那對我們來講我想我們會做其他更好的努力啦\n226078\t240916\t那我們現在就是有一點這個因為負債過大那剛才也有人講說你不要再增加舉債了啦舉債的話你這個利息更多等等所以我要跟委員報告您剛才所關心的部分也是我們關心的部分\n242025\t266670\t但是我們沒有辦法在這個價格調整之前做出一個肯定的決定所以我們會把這些訊息包括委員所關心的這個內容都提供給電價審議委員會由他們斟酌讓他們去討論我相信在那些專家學者之間他們會討論出一個比較有智慧的這個決定好\n268650\t273832\t剛剛部長我運用了一分多鐘的時間讓你說明我真的希望聽到政府的立場第一個你會提供民眾的聲音因為現在如果你一漲價通膨是非常的恐怖因為目前我們看到如果再漲尤其像媒體所披露的這個方案CPI可能會上升到2%甚至以上\n296380\t299144\t這樣的一個情況市民大家有一個心聲長了就回不了頭尤其在現階段你身為經濟部部長你必須綜合台灣目前整個民生以及產業的樣態\n311661\t334975\t那麼這點是非常重要 也請你 將你剛剛善意的回應告訴店家委員會 務必在現階段如果連市民小店家 民生用店都如此的要高漲到更高的水準我想這是民眾沒有辦法接受的我們目的 政府要好好的讓民眾好生活 因為\n335675\t360107\t在工業這個電價的部分呢最近這幾年也已經漲了數次在目前我們統計平均的單價已經高達4.29元所以本市還是要奉勸在先階段你要怎麼樣讓民生小店家能夠先安內先不要漲才不會導致通盆你願意這樣子的方向來建議給電價委員會嗎\n363889\t382630\t謝謝委員的叮嚀我們一定會把你這些內容來向這個電價審議委員會報告不過我在這個地方向你說明一下我們基本上的原則對工業電價來講就是不能夠高於我們的競爭對手國\n385015\t401426\t對所以你總是有一個防堵這個目的就是要真正照顧我們的產業嘛但是另外一項也就是我一直強調的本席民生跟小店家現在苦不堪言絕對不適合黨在這個階段我一定會提供給這個審議委員會\n405649\t412275\t我相信你有這個能力因為我不希望你成為一個只有會漲價人家號稱你是漲價部長我不希望這個名稱因為卓榮泰卓榮泰說他是AI內閣我也不希望你是漲價部長卓榮泰不是AI內閣而成為漲價內閣\n425467\t444767\t您剛才回答是你是經濟部長嗎我不是漲價部長你不是漲價部長所以你務必也不是水電部長對 也不是水電部長好 有gas所以我希望我們好好地來照顧民生這是一個非常重要的一個均衡的樣態接下來本席要請教\n447334\t457983\t麥綠能那麼菲律賓的這個案子本席也聽到您說您會去實際上的一個這個考察什麼時候會去考察我們大概在這個\n462835\t480429\t確定了以後會分批啦就是實際上面我個人什麼時候可以去可能就是我如果能夠請假出國的話那麼我就會去你非常想立即去是不是不是你一定有一個評估不要笑這個對台灣來講你一直漲價你解決不了台電的困境你的能源政策你要怎麼樣去調整這非常的重要\n488075\t499162\t是 我們的專業的部分包括我們的能源局包括我們的公研院包括我們相關的這些專家他們會先走大約什麼時候應該是月底之前吧月底之前會出發那本席要請教因為本席在前半年一直跟你討論你也有回應但是你告訴我們的都是具可行性那具可行性也就是還在空想\n515191\t522874\t還沒有實際行動但是我們剛剛通道你是具可行性但是你剛剛有說了你月底以前專家學者會出發是不是月底以前這是你現在才告訴我們的因為在你書面答詢沒有這些資料所以我們要實際去討論接下來本席請問那到底你的工程費用\n539159\t549123\t是多少 到底你要採用的運電的方式你要用什麼樣的方式你到底是原先說的海底電纜線還是這個電池的電池船的一個運輸那麼時程大概是什麼時候請說明報告委員 這個我們是不是可以另外給你報告\n558266\t568534\t好 你給我報告 你有一個方案 但是我還是要問你因為這個對我們國家來講是很重要的一個很重大的一個工程所以本下要請教 那麼是不是台飛台飛也採用了什麼樣的方式來做合作我想這一點是非常的關鍵 請說明有沒有合作這個部分我們不方便在這裡不方便講沒關係 有沒有合作好 有沒有合作\n585503\t598397\t沒有合作好那我們也是希望也就是認真在推動是不是我們當然是積極的在推動好是一個積極在推動所以我們也希望\n599522\t621123\t在整個能源的配比方式要怎麼做而不是就像本席剛才所說的這幾年民生也漲了幾次我不希望你成為一個漲價的部長那你剛才也說了你不是漲價部長最後一個議題本席要跟你討論的也就是我們這個大阪的這個\n624594\t630239\t市博那當時我們在2022年的時候我回想我們一直在討論這20億我們要怎麼花那我們有一個條件因為以往在上海市博是沒有我們政府出資是台商自己募款那現在我們當然支持台灣的產業能夠在世界來展露\n647515\t654459\t所以因此最後我們協商的結果也就是20億一毛不刪希望大家努力去做對不對\n656158\t673969\t是不是報告委員 這個是我們努力跟日本友好的關係我們本來我們在這個展覽 世博的展我們不是會員所以我們是根本就不會受到邀請去參與這個有主辦過不是啦 這個就是本席要跟你討論的當時你承諾的是會多方的讓台灣來出現\n681073\t708947\t甚至持續的透過管道判以這個希望以台灣管的面向來展出那現在我們是以teamwork的方式但是最近好像聽聞有媒體暴露也就是披露說日方認為台灣經濟部的官方網站在本月的6日發布的聲明內容是希望能夠更明確\n711499\t718525\t去說明不是以政府的立場不是以台灣兩個字的名義來參展有沒有這回事請問有沒有這回事我們不是這個國際展覽局BIE的成員所以沒有辦法直接參展本席要請教日方有沒有最近6號有沒有這回事\n733637\t760571\t你們經濟部有沒有收到有沒有收到請你告訴我們我們接受日本的邀請這個已經是非常大人家非常給我們很大的所以我們二十億全力支持所以本席請教其中有變化的時候是不是陳儒媒體所說經濟部有沒有接到這樣子的訊息這樣子的這個不管是文也好或者是我們的電子網有沒有\n764073\t779413\t報告委員對於報載的事情你認為那個信度高嗎你不用問我認不認因為你是主席棄者你可以給社會大眾說到底有還是沒有我個人是沒有收到這樣的一個訊息你個人沒有 經濟部有沒有\n780407\t802952\t因為你是代表經濟部你不是個人那我剛才已經跟您報告就是我沒有收到你沒有收到好因為本席也不希望我們被污蔑這個就是我們在質詢當中能夠好好的去溝通說明清楚我們謝謝委員的這個垂詢其實我們到日本參展這件事情我們基本上是沒有\n803852\t817626\t不是會員沒有資格去參展但是日本基於友好的這樣的一個關係邀請我們去參展所以這裡面當然有一些對我們有惡意的國家就會來挑撥離間會來見縫插針\n821249\t836907\t所以我向委員這一部分你要了解我們同仁之間在穿梭這個案件的時候非常非常努力的千萬不要落入別人千萬不要落入這個輕痛愁快的這樣的一個境界\n837347\t860064\t部長你現在說明的立場也就是全國國民的心聲我們也非常的希望政府部門可以說明清楚我們並沒有照你剛才說的我們經濟並沒有收到這樣的訊息我們要讓國人安心因為20億大家全力的支持也就是希望讓台灣在世界能夠發光發熱 是不是\n862165\t874519\t我們去接受這個邀請去參展到別人家去做客我想我們有很多的事情必須要這按照主人的這個條件主人的這個規定來進行\n877142\t906320\t不可能我们恣意乱行很多的人要求我们做一些我认为是没有这个太有意义的部分这个反而让我们自爱难行我想委员的这个好意应该也是这个部分所以让我们共同努力实际上让所有去看到在去参加这个展览的人都能够了解我们这个所谓的tech world这个馆是表现出\n907040\t930862\t我們非常優異的部分對所以在2022年部長你我本席再次強調也再次提醒因為你在這裡有承諾也就是說我們既然不是在國家區我們好不容易也可以爭取到所以20億全力的支持也就是您所說的希望能夠透過各方的管道能夠讓台灣台灣\n932844\t959886\t台灣的一個意象能夠在這當中來展露我想這是對於我們全國國民大家都非常的期待我也希望有任何不正確的訊息能夠透過經濟部也要嚴格去管控去說明清楚而不是隨波逐流我們的目的也就是希望讓我們的產業都能夠再次的強調是在世界看得到而且是跟世界接軌謝謝是謝謝委員好\n","txt":"郭文貴議員\n台電準備要提出漲價方案而且預估這個方案是整體電價平均漲幅6%民生住宅以及小商店用電幅度會更高介於11%到33%\n以目前家庭平均每月用電338度的非夏月電價來做比較估計每一個月的電費要增加100多塊所以在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教更傳出台電這一波的調漲鎖定了長年動漲的330度以下的民生住宅以及小商店用電\n那麼台電要爭取調升過去的水準也就每度大概是兩塊到三塊這一波的民生跟小商店用電呢330度以上也會採取用電越多漲幅越大的原則部長你有沒有知道這個事情那我們經濟部的立場究竟是什麼我們仍舊經濟部也是建議調漲嗎請說明\n報告委員我想你也非常清楚電價的調漲不是經濟部決定的電價的調漲是電價審議委員會他們多數的人好 所以部長你有聽聞這樣子的方案嗎這一個部分請教基本上都不是我們台電裡面討論的方向好 所以剛剛本席所說的媒體暴露是沒有這回事嗎\n媒體有很多他們會去所以你不知道這個訊息我不知道這個訊息好一個不知道訊息所以本席要請教經濟部的立場在目前台灣的面向你認為你仍舊在經濟部的立場還是以漲價為主嗎經濟部的立場就是綜合考量這個目前的經濟的動盪以及國人的需求\n部長你這樣說就對了因為你是經濟部你一定會綜合考量所以在你綜合考量立即要到下個月四月份那你認為在目前綜合考量的情況之下你現在還會認為漲價是好的方案嗎如果是台電今天是民營企業的話\n它勢必要漲價但是台電現在是國營的企業它必須要肩負國家照顧國人的這樣的一個任務所以這個任務我們非常的要重視所以剛才我想委員你所指教的部分也就是我們過去數年動場的最重要的一個部分\n那我們現在這樣就是說我們要請這個國家來補助台電然後因為過去動漲造成他的這個負債那這個負債已經舉債到92%了我們希望是這樣就是說如果能夠撥補給我們讓我們的這個舉債的空間有的話那對我們來講我想我們會做其他更好的努力啦\n那我們現在就是有一點這個因為負債過大那剛才也有人講說你不要再增加舉債了啦舉債的話你這個利息更多等等所以我要跟委員報告您剛才所關心的部分也是我們關心的部分\n但是我們沒有辦法在這個價格調整之前做出一個肯定的決定所以我們會把這些訊息包括委員所關心的這個內容都提供給電價審議委員會由他們斟酌讓他們去討論我相信在那些專家學者之間他們會討論出一個比較有智慧的這個決定好\n剛剛部長我運用了一分多鐘的時間讓你說明我真的希望聽到政府的立場第一個你會提供民眾的聲音因為現在如果你一漲價通膨是非常的恐怖因為目前我們看到如果再漲尤其像媒體所披露的這個方案CPI可能會上升到2%甚至以上\n這樣的一個情況市民大家有一個心聲長了就回不了頭尤其在現階段你身為經濟部部長你必須綜合台灣目前整個民生以及產業的樣態\n那麼這點是非常重要 也請你 將你剛剛善意的回應告訴店家委員會 務必在現階段如果連市民小店家 民生用店都如此的要高漲到更高的水準我想這是民眾沒有辦法接受的我們目的 政府要好好的讓民眾好生活 因為\n在工業這個電價的部分呢最近這幾年也已經漲了數次在目前我們統計平均的單價已經高達4.29元所以本市還是要奉勸在先階段你要怎麼樣讓民生小店家能夠先安內先不要漲才不會導致通盆你願意這樣子的方向來建議給電價委員會嗎\n謝謝委員的叮嚀我們一定會把你這些內容來向這個電價審議委員會報告不過我在這個地方向你說明一下我們基本上的原則對工業電價來講就是不能夠高於我們的競爭對手國\n對所以你總是有一個防堵這個目的就是要真正照顧我們的產業嘛但是另外一項也就是我一直強調的本席民生跟小店家現在苦不堪言絕對不適合黨在這個階段我一定會提供給這個審議委員會\n我相信你有這個能力因為我不希望你成為一個只有會漲價人家號稱你是漲價部長我不希望這個名稱因為卓榮泰卓榮泰說他是AI內閣我也不希望你是漲價部長卓榮泰不是AI內閣而成為漲價內閣\n您剛才回答是你是經濟部長嗎我不是漲價部長你不是漲價部長所以你務必也不是水電部長對 也不是水電部長好 有gas所以我希望我們好好地來照顧民生這是一個非常重要的一個均衡的樣態接下來本席要請教\n麥綠能那麼菲律賓的這個案子本席也聽到您說您會去實際上的一個這個考察什麼時候會去考察我們大概在這個\n確定了以後會分批啦就是實際上面我個人什麼時候可以去可能就是我如果能夠請假出國的話那麼我就會去你非常想立即去是不是不是你一定有一個評估不要笑這個對台灣來講你一直漲價你解決不了台電的困境你的能源政策你要怎麼樣去調整這非常的重要\n是 我們的專業的部分包括我們的能源局包括我們的公研院包括我們相關的這些專家他們會先走大約什麼時候應該是月底之前吧月底之前會出發那本席要請教因為本席在前半年一直跟你討論你也有回應但是你告訴我們的都是具可行性那具可行性也就是還在空想\n還沒有實際行動但是我們剛剛通道你是具可行性但是你剛剛有說了你月底以前專家學者會出發是不是月底以前這是你現在才告訴我們的因為在你書面答詢沒有這些資料所以我們要實際去討論接下來本席請問那到底你的工程費用\n是多少 到底你要採用的運電的方式你要用什麼樣的方式你到底是原先說的海底電纜線還是這個電池的電池船的一個運輸那麼時程大概是什麼時候請說明報告委員 這個我們是不是可以另外給你報告\n好 你給我報告 你有一個方案 但是我還是要問你因為這個對我們國家來講是很重要的一個很重大的一個工程所以本下要請教 那麼是不是台飛台飛也採用了什麼樣的方式來做合作我想這一點是非常的關鍵 請說明有沒有合作這個部分我們不方便在這裡不方便講沒關係 有沒有合作好 有沒有合作\n沒有合作好那我們也是希望也就是認真在推動是不是我們當然是積極的在推動好是一個積極在推動所以我們也希望\n在整個能源的配比方式要怎麼做而不是就像本席剛才所說的這幾年民生也漲了幾次我不希望你成為一個漲價的部長那你剛才也說了你不是漲價部長最後一個議題本席要跟你討論的也就是我們這個大阪的這個\n市博那當時我們在2022年的時候我回想我們一直在討論這20億我們要怎麼花那我們有一個條件因為以往在上海市博是沒有我們政府出資是台商自己募款那現在我們當然支持台灣的產業能夠在世界來展露\n所以因此最後我們協商的結果也就是20億一毛不刪希望大家努力去做對不對\n是不是報告委員 這個是我們努力跟日本友好的關係我們本來我們在這個展覽 世博的展我們不是會員所以我們是根本就不會受到邀請去參與這個有主辦過不是啦 這個就是本席要跟你討論的當時你承諾的是會多方的讓台灣來出現\n甚至持續的透過管道判以這個希望以台灣管的面向來展出那現在我們是以teamwork的方式但是最近好像聽聞有媒體暴露也就是披露說日方認為台灣經濟部的官方網站在本月的6日發布的聲明內容是希望能夠更明確\n去說明不是以政府的立場不是以台灣兩個字的名義來參展有沒有這回事請問有沒有這回事我們不是這個國際展覽局BIE的成員所以沒有辦法直接參展本席要請教日方有沒有最近6號有沒有這回事\n你們經濟部有沒有收到有沒有收到請你告訴我們我們接受日本的邀請這個已經是非常大人家非常給我們很大的所以我們二十億全力支持所以本席請教其中有變化的時候是不是陳儒媒體所說經濟部有沒有接到這樣子的訊息這樣子的這個不管是文也好或者是我們的電子網有沒有\n報告委員對於報載的事情你認為那個信度高嗎你不用問我認不認因為你是主席棄者你可以給社會大眾說到底有還是沒有我個人是沒有收到這樣的一個訊息你個人沒有 經濟部有沒有\n因為你是代表經濟部你不是個人那我剛才已經跟您報告就是我沒有收到你沒有收到好因為本席也不希望我們被污蔑這個就是我們在質詢當中能夠好好的去溝通說明清楚我們謝謝委員的這個垂詢其實我們到日本參展這件事情我們基本上是沒有\n不是會員沒有資格去參展但是日本基於友好的這樣的一個關係邀請我們去參展所以這裡面當然有一些對我們有惡意的國家就會來挑撥離間會來見縫插針\n所以我向委員這一部分你要了解我們同仁之間在穿梭這個案件的時候非常非常努力的千萬不要落入別人千萬不要落入這個輕痛愁快的這樣的一個境界\n部長你現在說明的立場也就是全國國民的心聲我們也非常的希望政府部門可以說明清楚我們並沒有照你剛才說的我們經濟並沒有收到這樣的訊息我們要讓國人安心因為20億大家全力的支持也就是希望讓台灣在世界能夠發光發熱 是不是\n我們去接受這個邀請去參展到別人家去做客我想我們有很多的事情必須要這按照主人的這個條件主人的這個規定來進行\n不可能我们恣意乱行很多的人要求我们做一些我认为是没有这个太有意义的部分这个反而让我们自爱难行我想委员的这个好意应该也是这个部分所以让我们共同努力实际上让所有去看到在去参加这个展览的人都能够了解我们这个所谓的tech world这个馆是表现出\n我們非常優異的部分對所以在2022年部長你我本席再次強調也再次提醒因為你在這裡有承諾也就是說我們既然不是在國家區我們好不容易也可以爭取到所以20億全力的支持也就是您所說的希望能夠透過各方的管道能夠讓台灣台灣\n台灣的一個意象能夠在這當中來展露我想這是對於我們全國國民大家都非常的期待我也希望有任何不正確的訊息能夠透過經濟部也要嚴格去管控去說明清楚而不是隨波逐流我們的目的也就是希望讓我們的產業都能夠再次的強調是在世界看得到而且是跟世界接軌謝謝是謝謝委員好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.877 --> 00:04.077\n郭文貴議員\n\n00:21.169 --> 00:37.501\n台電準備要提出漲價方案而且預估這個方案是整體電價平均漲幅6%民生住宅以及小商店用電幅度會更高介於11%到33%\n\n00:40.143 --> 01:07.630\n以目前家庭平均每月用電338度的非夏月電價來做比較估計每一個月的電費要增加100多塊所以在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教更傳出台電這一波的調漲鎖定了長年動漲的330度以下的民生住宅以及小商店用電\n\n01:08.570 --> 01:33.564\n那麼台電要爭取調升過去的水準也就每度大概是兩塊到三塊這一波的民生跟小商店用電呢330度以上也會採取用電越多漲幅越大的原則部長你有沒有知道這個事情那我們經濟部的立場究竟是什麼我們仍舊經濟部也是建議調漲嗎請說明\n\n01:36.736 --> 02:03.092\n報告委員我想你也非常清楚電價的調漲不是經濟部決定的電價的調漲是電價審議委員會他們多數的人好所以部長你有聽聞這樣子的方案嗎這一個部分請教基本上都不是我們台電裡面討論的方向好所以剛剛本席所說的媒體暴露是沒有這回事嗎\n\n02:03.752 --> 02:29.953\n媒體有很多他們會去所以你不知道這個訊息我不知道這個訊息好一個不知道訊息所以本席要請教經濟部的立場在目前台灣的面向你認為你仍舊在經濟部的立場還是以漲價為主嗎經濟部的立場就是綜合考量這個目前的經濟的動盪以及國人的需求\n\n02:32.455 --> 02:48.479\n部長你這樣說就對了因為你是經濟部你一定會綜合考量所以在你綜合考量立即要到下個月四月份那你認為在目前綜合考量的情況之下你現在還會認為漲價是好的方案嗎如果是台電今天是民營企業的話\n\n02:55.558 --> 03:19.855\n它勢必要漲價但是台電現在是國營的企業它必須要肩負國家照顧國人的這樣的一個任務所以這個任務我們非常的要重視所以剛才我想委員你所指教的部分也就是我們過去數年動場的最重要的一個部分\n\n03:20.635 --> 03:45.297\n那我們現在這樣就是說我們要請這個國家來補助台電然後因為過去動漲造成他的這個負債那這個負債已經舉債到92%了我們希望是這樣就是說如果能夠撥補給我們讓我們的這個舉債的空間有的話那對我們來講我想我們會做其他更好的努力啦\n\n03:46.078 --> 04:00.916\n那我們現在就是有一點這個因為負債過大那剛才也有人講說你不要再增加舉債了啦舉債的話你這個利息更多等等所以我要跟委員報告您剛才所關心的部分也是我們關心的部分\n\n04:02.025 --> 04:26.670\n但是我們沒有辦法在這個價格調整之前做出一個肯定的決定所以我們會把這些訊息包括委員所關心的這個內容都提供給電價審議委員會由他們斟酌讓他們去討論我相信在那些專家學者之間他們會討論出一個比較有智慧的這個決定好\n\n04:28.650 --> 04:33.832\n剛剛部長我運用了一分多鐘的時間讓你說明我真的希望聽到政府的立場第一個你會提供民眾的聲音因為現在如果你一漲價通膨是非常的恐怖因為目前我們看到如果再漲尤其像媒體所披露的這個方案CPI可能會上升到2%甚至以上\n\n04:56.380 --> 04:59.144\n這樣的一個情況市民大家有一個心聲長了就回不了頭尤其在現階段你身為經濟部部長你必須綜合台灣目前整個民生以及產業的樣態\n\n05:11.661 --> 05:34.975\n那麼這點是非常重要也請你將你剛剛善意的回應告訴店家委員會務必在現階段如果連市民小店家民生用店都如此的要高漲到更高的水準我想這是民眾沒有辦法接受的我們目的政府要好好的讓民眾好生活因為\n\n05:35.675 --> 06:00.107\n在工業這個電價的部分呢最近這幾年也已經漲了數次在目前我們統計平均的單價已經高達4.29元所以本市還是要奉勸在先階段你要怎麼樣讓民生小店家能夠先安內先不要漲才不會導致通盆你願意這樣子的方向來建議給電價委員會嗎\n\n06:03.889 --> 06:22.630\n謝謝委員的叮嚀我們一定會把你這些內容來向這個電價審議委員會報告不過我在這個地方向你說明一下我們基本上的原則對工業電價來講就是不能夠高於我們的競爭對手國\n\n06:25.015 --> 06:41.426\n對所以你總是有一個防堵這個目的就是要真正照顧我們的產業嘛但是另外一項也就是我一直強調的本席民生跟小店家現在苦不堪言絕對不適合黨在這個階段我一定會提供給這個審議委員會\n\n06:45.649 --> 06:52.275\n我相信你有這個能力因為我不希望你成為一個只有會漲價人家號稱你是漲價部長我不希望這個名稱因為卓榮泰卓榮泰說他是AI內閣我也不希望你是漲價部長卓榮泰不是AI內閣而成為漲價內閣\n\n07:05.467 --> 07:24.767\n您剛才回答是你是經濟部長嗎我不是漲價部長你不是漲價部長所以你務必也不是水電部長對也不是水電部長好有gas所以我希望我們好好地來照顧民生這是一個非常重要的一個均衡的樣態接下來本席要請教\n\n07:27.334 --> 07:37.983\n麥綠能那麼菲律賓的這個案子本席也聽到您說您會去實際上的一個這個考察什麼時候會去考察我們大概在這個\n\n07:42.835 --> 08:00.429\n確定了以後會分批啦就是實際上面我個人什麼時候可以去可能就是我如果能夠請假出國的話那麼我就會去你非常想立即去是不是不是你一定有一個評估不要笑這個對台灣來講你一直漲價你解決不了台電的困境你的能源政策你要怎麼樣去調整這非常的重要\n\n08:08.075 --> 08:19.162\n是我們的專業的部分包括我們的能源局包括我們的公研院包括我們相關的這些專家他們會先走大約什麼時候應該是月底之前吧月底之前會出發那本席要請教因為本席在前半年一直跟你討論你也有回應但是你告訴我們的都是具可行性那具可行性也就是還在空想\n\n08:35.191 --> 08:42.874\n還沒有實際行動但是我們剛剛通道你是具可行性但是你剛剛有說了你月底以前專家學者會出發是不是月底以前這是你現在才告訴我們的因為在你書面答詢沒有這些資料所以我們要實際去討論接下來本席請問那到底你的工程費用\n\n08:59.159 --> 09:09.123\n是多少到底你要採用的運電的方式你要用什麼樣的方式你到底是原先說的海底電纜線還是這個電池的電池船的一個運輸那麼時程大概是什麼時候請說明報告委員這個我們是不是可以另外給你報告\n\n09:18.266 --> 09:28.534\n好你給我報告你有一個方案但是我還是要問你因為這個對我們國家來講是很重要的一個很重大的一個工程所以本下要請教那麼是不是台飛台飛也採用了什麼樣的方式來做合作我想這一點是非常的關鍵請說明有沒有合作這個部分我們不方便在這裡不方便講沒關係有沒有合作好有沒有合作\n\n09:45.503 --> 09:58.397\n沒有合作好那我們也是希望也就是認真在推動是不是我們當然是積極的在推動好是一個積極在推動所以我們也希望\n\n09:59.522 --> 10:21.123\n在整個能源的配比方式要怎麼做而不是就像本席剛才所說的這幾年民生也漲了幾次我不希望你成為一個漲價的部長那你剛才也說了你不是漲價部長最後一個議題本席要跟你討論的也就是我們這個大阪的這個\n\n10:24.594 --> 10:30.239\n市博那當時我們在2022年的時候我回想我們一直在討論這20億我們要怎麼花那我們有一個條件因為以往在上海市博是沒有我們政府出資是台商自己募款那現在我們當然支持台灣的產業能夠在世界來展露\n\n10:47.515 --> 10:54.459\n所以因此最後我們協商的結果也就是20億一毛不刪希望大家努力去做對不對\n\n10:56.158 --> 11:13.969\n是不是報告委員這個是我們努力跟日本友好的關係我們本來我們在這個展覽世博的展我們不是會員所以我們是根本就不會受到邀請去參與這個有主辦過不是啦這個就是本席要跟你討論的當時你承諾的是會多方的讓台灣來出現\n\n11:21.073 --> 11:48.947\n甚至持續的透過管道判以這個希望以台灣管的面向來展出那現在我們是以teamwork的方式但是最近好像聽聞有媒體暴露也就是披露說日方認為台灣經濟部的官方網站在本月的6日發布的聲明內容是希望能夠更明確\n\n11:51.499 --> 11:58.525\n去說明不是以政府的立場不是以台灣兩個字的名義來參展有沒有這回事請問有沒有這回事我們不是這個國際展覽局BIE的成員所以沒有辦法直接參展本席要請教日方有沒有最近6號有沒有這回事\n\n12:13.637 --> 12:40.571\n你們經濟部有沒有收到有沒有收到請你告訴我們我們接受日本的邀請這個已經是非常大人家非常給我們很大的所以我們二十億全力支持所以本席請教其中有變化的時候是不是陳儒媒體所說經濟部有沒有接到這樣子的訊息這樣子的這個不管是文也好或者是我們的電子網有沒有\n\n12:44.073 --> 12:59.413\n報告委員對於報載的事情你認為那個信度高嗎你不用問我認不認因為你是主席棄者你可以給社會大眾說到底有還是沒有我個人是沒有收到這樣的一個訊息你個人沒有經濟部有沒有\n\n13:00.407 --> 13:22.952\n因為你是代表經濟部你不是個人那我剛才已經跟您報告就是我沒有收到你沒有收到好因為本席也不希望我們被污蔑這個就是我們在質詢當中能夠好好的去溝通說明清楚我們謝謝委員的這個垂詢其實我們到日本參展這件事情我們基本上是沒有\n\n13:23.852 --> 13:37.626\n不是會員沒有資格去參展但是日本基於友好的這樣的一個關係邀請我們去參展所以這裡面當然有一些對我們有惡意的國家就會來挑撥離間會來見縫插針\n\n13:41.249 --> 13:56.907\n所以我向委員這一部分你要了解我們同仁之間在穿梭這個案件的時候非常非常努力的千萬不要落入別人千萬不要落入這個輕痛愁快的這樣的一個境界\n\n13:57.347 --> 14:20.064\n部長你現在說明的立場也就是全國國民的心聲我們也非常的希望政府部門可以說明清楚我們並沒有照你剛才說的我們經濟並沒有收到這樣的訊息我們要讓國人安心因為20億大家全力的支持也就是希望讓台灣在世界能夠發光發熱是不是\n\n14:22.165 --> 14:34.519\n我們去接受這個邀請去參展到別人家去做客我想我們有很多的事情必須要這按照主人的這個條件主人的這個規定來進行\n\n14:37.142 --> 15:06.320\n不可能我们恣意乱行很多的人要求我们做一些我认为是没有这个太有意义的部分这个反而让我们自爱难行我想委员的这个好意应该也是这个部分所以让我们共同努力实际上让所有去看到在去参加这个展览的人都能够了解我们这个所谓的techworld这个馆是表现出\n\n15:07.040 --> 15:30.862\n我們非常優異的部分對所以在2022年部長你我本席再次強調也再次提醒因為你在這裡有承諾也就是說我們既然不是在國家區我們好不容易也可以爭取到所以20億全力的支持也就是您所說的希望能夠透過各方的管道能夠讓台灣台灣\n\n15:32.844 --> 15:59.886\n台灣的一個意象能夠在這當中來展露我想這是對於我們全國國民大家都非常的期待我也希望有任何不正確的訊息能夠透過經濟部也要嚴格去管控去說明清楚而不是隨波逐流我們的目的也就是希望讓我們的產業都能夠再次的強調是在世界看得到而且是跟世界接軌謝謝是謝謝委員好\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.877,"end":4.077,"text":"郭文貴議員"},{"start":21.169,"end":37.501,"text":"台電準備要提出漲價方案而且預估這個方案是整體電價平均漲幅6%民生住宅以及小商店用電幅度會更高介於11%到33%"},{"start":40.143,"end":67.63,"text":"以目前家庭平均每月用電338度的非夏月電價來做比較估計每一個月的電費要增加100多塊所以在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教更傳出台電這一波的調漲鎖定了長年動漲的330度以下的民生住宅以及小商店用電"},{"start":68.57,"end":93.564,"text":"那麼台電要爭取調升過去的水準也就每度大概是兩塊到三塊這一波的民生跟小商店用電呢330度以上也會採取用電越多漲幅越大的原則部長你有沒有知道這個事情那我們經濟部的立場究竟是什麼我們仍舊經濟部也是建議調漲嗎請說明"},{"start":96.736,"end":123.092,"text":"報告委員我想你也非常清楚電價的調漲不是經濟部決定的電價的調漲是電價審議委員會他們多數的人好 所以部長你有聽聞這樣子的方案嗎這一個部分請教基本上都不是我們台電裡面討論的方向好 所以剛剛本席所說的媒體暴露是沒有這回事嗎"},{"start":123.752,"end":149.953,"text":"媒體有很多他們會去所以你不知道這個訊息我不知道這個訊息好一個不知道訊息所以本席要請教經濟部的立場在目前台灣的面向你認為你仍舊在經濟部的立場還是以漲價為主嗎經濟部的立場就是綜合考量這個目前的經濟的動盪以及國人的需求"},{"start":152.455,"end":168.479,"text":"部長你這樣說就對了因為你是經濟部你一定會綜合考量所以在你綜合考量立即要到下個月四月份那你認為在目前綜合考量的情況之下你現在還會認為漲價是好的方案嗎如果是台電今天是民營企業的話"},{"start":175.558,"end":199.855,"text":"它勢必要漲價但是台電現在是國營的企業它必須要肩負國家照顧國人的這樣的一個任務所以這個任務我們非常的要重視所以剛才我想委員你所指教的部分也就是我們過去數年動場的最重要的一個部分"},{"start":200.635,"end":225.297,"text":"那我們現在這樣就是說我們要請這個國家來補助台電然後因為過去動漲造成他的這個負債那這個負債已經舉債到92%了我們希望是這樣就是說如果能夠撥補給我們讓我們的這個舉債的空間有的話那對我們來講我想我們會做其他更好的努力啦"},{"start":226.078,"end":240.916,"text":"那我們現在就是有一點這個因為負債過大那剛才也有人講說你不要再增加舉債了啦舉債的話你這個利息更多等等所以我要跟委員報告您剛才所關心的部分也是我們關心的部分"},{"start":242.025,"end":266.67,"text":"但是我們沒有辦法在這個價格調整之前做出一個肯定的決定所以我們會把這些訊息包括委員所關心的這個內容都提供給電價審議委員會由他們斟酌讓他們去討論我相信在那些專家學者之間他們會討論出一個比較有智慧的這個決定好"},{"start":268.65,"end":273.832,"text":"剛剛部長我運用了一分多鐘的時間讓你說明我真的希望聽到政府的立場第一個你會提供民眾的聲音因為現在如果你一漲價通膨是非常的恐怖因為目前我們看到如果再漲尤其像媒體所披露的這個方案CPI可能會上升到2%甚至以上"},{"start":296.38,"end":299.144,"text":"這樣的一個情況市民大家有一個心聲長了就回不了頭尤其在現階段你身為經濟部部長你必須綜合台灣目前整個民生以及產業的樣態"},{"start":311.661,"end":334.975,"text":"那麼這點是非常重要 也請你 將你剛剛善意的回應告訴店家委員會 務必在現階段如果連市民小店家 民生用店都如此的要高漲到更高的水準我想這是民眾沒有辦法接受的我們目的 政府要好好的讓民眾好生活 因為"},{"start":335.675,"end":360.107,"text":"在工業這個電價的部分呢最近這幾年也已經漲了數次在目前我們統計平均的單價已經高達4.29元所以本市還是要奉勸在先階段你要怎麼樣讓民生小店家能夠先安內先不要漲才不會導致通盆你願意這樣子的方向來建議給電價委員會嗎"},{"start":363.889,"end":382.63,"text":"謝謝委員的叮嚀我們一定會把你這些內容來向這個電價審議委員會報告不過我在這個地方向你說明一下我們基本上的原則對工業電價來講就是不能夠高於我們的競爭對手國"},{"start":385.015,"end":401.426,"text":"對所以你總是有一個防堵這個目的就是要真正照顧我們的產業嘛但是另外一項也就是我一直強調的本席民生跟小店家現在苦不堪言絕對不適合黨在這個階段我一定會提供給這個審議委員會"},{"start":405.649,"end":412.275,"text":"我相信你有這個能力因為我不希望你成為一個只有會漲價人家號稱你是漲價部長我不希望這個名稱因為卓榮泰卓榮泰說他是AI內閣我也不希望你是漲價部長卓榮泰不是AI內閣而成為漲價內閣"},{"start":425.467,"end":444.767,"text":"您剛才回答是你是經濟部長嗎我不是漲價部長你不是漲價部長所以你務必也不是水電部長對 也不是水電部長好 有gas所以我希望我們好好地來照顧民生這是一個非常重要的一個均衡的樣態接下來本席要請教"},{"start":447.334,"end":457.983,"text":"麥綠能那麼菲律賓的這個案子本席也聽到您說您會去實際上的一個這個考察什麼時候會去考察我們大概在這個"},{"start":462.835,"end":480.429,"text":"確定了以後會分批啦就是實際上面我個人什麼時候可以去可能就是我如果能夠請假出國的話那麼我就會去你非常想立即去是不是不是你一定有一個評估不要笑這個對台灣來講你一直漲價你解決不了台電的困境你的能源政策你要怎麼樣去調整這非常的重要"},{"start":488.075,"end":499.162,"text":"是 我們的專業的部分包括我們的能源局包括我們的公研院包括我們相關的這些專家他們會先走大約什麼時候應該是月底之前吧月底之前會出發那本席要請教因為本席在前半年一直跟你討論你也有回應但是你告訴我們的都是具可行性那具可行性也就是還在空想"},{"start":515.191,"end":522.874,"text":"還沒有實際行動但是我們剛剛通道你是具可行性但是你剛剛有說了你月底以前專家學者會出發是不是月底以前這是你現在才告訴我們的因為在你書面答詢沒有這些資料所以我們要實際去討論接下來本席請問那到底你的工程費用"},{"start":539.159,"end":549.123,"text":"是多少 到底你要採用的運電的方式你要用什麼樣的方式你到底是原先說的海底電纜線還是這個電池的電池船的一個運輸那麼時程大概是什麼時候請說明報告委員 這個我們是不是可以另外給你報告"},{"start":558.266,"end":568.534,"text":"好 你給我報告 你有一個方案 但是我還是要問你因為這個對我們國家來講是很重要的一個很重大的一個工程所以本下要請教 那麼是不是台飛台飛也採用了什麼樣的方式來做合作我想這一點是非常的關鍵 請說明有沒有合作這個部分我們不方便在這裡不方便講沒關係 有沒有合作好 有沒有合作"},{"start":585.503,"end":598.397,"text":"沒有合作好那我們也是希望也就是認真在推動是不是我們當然是積極的在推動好是一個積極在推動所以我們也希望"},{"start":599.522,"end":621.123,"text":"在整個能源的配比方式要怎麼做而不是就像本席剛才所說的這幾年民生也漲了幾次我不希望你成為一個漲價的部長那你剛才也說了你不是漲價部長最後一個議題本席要跟你討論的也就是我們這個大阪的這個"},{"start":624.594,"end":630.239,"text":"市博那當時我們在2022年的時候我回想我們一直在討論這20億我們要怎麼花那我們有一個條件因為以往在上海市博是沒有我們政府出資是台商自己募款那現在我們當然支持台灣的產業能夠在世界來展露"},{"start":647.515,"end":654.459,"text":"所以因此最後我們協商的結果也就是20億一毛不刪希望大家努力去做對不對"},{"start":656.158,"end":673.969,"text":"是不是報告委員 這個是我們努力跟日本友好的關係我們本來我們在這個展覽 世博的展我們不是會員所以我們是根本就不會受到邀請去參與這個有主辦過不是啦 這個就是本席要跟你討論的當時你承諾的是會多方的讓台灣來出現"},{"start":681.073,"end":708.947,"text":"甚至持續的透過管道判以這個希望以台灣管的面向來展出那現在我們是以teamwork的方式但是最近好像聽聞有媒體暴露也就是披露說日方認為台灣經濟部的官方網站在本月的6日發布的聲明內容是希望能夠更明確"},{"start":711.499,"end":718.525,"text":"去說明不是以政府的立場不是以台灣兩個字的名義來參展有沒有這回事請問有沒有這回事我們不是這個國際展覽局BIE的成員所以沒有辦法直接參展本席要請教日方有沒有最近6號有沒有這回事"},{"start":733.637,"end":760.571,"text":"你們經濟部有沒有收到有沒有收到請你告訴我們我們接受日本的邀請這個已經是非常大人家非常給我們很大的所以我們二十億全力支持所以本席請教其中有變化的時候是不是陳儒媒體所說經濟部有沒有接到這樣子的訊息這樣子的這個不管是文也好或者是我們的電子網有沒有"},{"start":764.073,"end":779.413,"text":"報告委員對於報載的事情你認為那個信度高嗎你不用問我認不認因為你是主席棄者你可以給社會大眾說到底有還是沒有我個人是沒有收到這樣的一個訊息你個人沒有 經濟部有沒有"},{"start":780.407,"end":802.952,"text":"因為你是代表經濟部你不是個人那我剛才已經跟您報告就是我沒有收到你沒有收到好因為本席也不希望我們被污蔑這個就是我們在質詢當中能夠好好的去溝通說明清楚我們謝謝委員的這個垂詢其實我們到日本參展這件事情我們基本上是沒有"},{"start":803.852,"end":817.626,"text":"不是會員沒有資格去參展但是日本基於友好的這樣的一個關係邀請我們去參展所以這裡面當然有一些對我們有惡意的國家就會來挑撥離間會來見縫插針"},{"start":821.249,"end":836.907,"text":"所以我向委員這一部分你要了解我們同仁之間在穿梭這個案件的時候非常非常努力的千萬不要落入別人千萬不要落入這個輕痛愁快的這樣的一個境界"},{"start":837.347,"end":860.064,"text":"部長你現在說明的立場也就是全國國民的心聲我們也非常的希望政府部門可以說明清楚我們並沒有照你剛才說的我們經濟並沒有收到這樣的訊息我們要讓國人安心因為20億大家全力的支持也就是希望讓台灣在世界能夠發光發熱 是不是"},{"start":862.165,"end":874.519,"text":"我們去接受這個邀請去參展到別人家去做客我想我們有很多的事情必須要這按照主人的這個條件主人的這個規定來進行"},{"start":877.142,"end":906.32,"text":"不可能我们恣意乱行很多的人要求我们做一些我认为是没有这个太有意义的部分这个反而让我们自爱难行我想委员的这个好意应该也是这个部分所以让我们共同努力实际上让所有去看到在去参加这个展览的人都能够了解我们这个所谓的tech world这个馆是表现出"},{"start":907.04,"end":930.862,"text":"我們非常優異的部分對所以在2022年部長你我本席再次強調也再次提醒因為你在這裡有承諾也就是說我們既然不是在國家區我們好不容易也可以爭取到所以20億全力的支持也就是您所說的希望能夠透過各方的管道能夠讓台灣台灣"},{"start":932.844,"end":959.886,"text":"台灣的一個意象能夠在這當中來展露我想這是對於我們全國國民大家都非常的期待我也希望有任何不正確的訊息能夠透過經濟部也要嚴格去管控去說明清楚而不是隨波逐流我們的目的也就是希望讓我們的產業都能夠再次的強調是在世界看得到而且是跟世界接軌謝謝是謝謝委員好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":330,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（10時16分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請部長。"],["主席：郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。據媒體披露，台電準備要提出漲價方案，而且預估這個方案是整體電價平均漲幅6%，民生住宅以及小商店用電幅度會更高，介於11%到33%。以目前家庭平均每月用電338度的非夏月電價來比較，估計每個月的電費要增加一百多塊，在這樣的情況之下，本席要請教，更傳出台電這一波調漲鎖定了長年凍漲的330度以下民生住宅以及小商店用電，台電要爭取調升到過去的水準，也就是每度大概是2塊到3塊。這一波的民生跟小商店用電330度以上，也會採取用電越多，漲幅越大的原則。部長，你知不知道這個事情？經濟部的立場究竟是什麼？經濟部也是建議調漲嗎？請說明。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想你也非常清楚電價的調漲不是經濟部決定的，電價的調漲是電價審議委員會多數的人來決定調漲，所以……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，部長，你有聽聞這樣子的方案嗎？請教。"],["郭部長智輝：這個部分基本上都不是台電裡面討論的方向。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，所以剛剛本席所說的媒體披露，是沒有這回事嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：媒體有很多會去……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你不知道這個訊息？"],["郭部長智輝：我不知道這個訊息。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，好一個不知道訊息，所以本席要請教經濟部的立場，在目前臺灣的面向，站在經濟部的立場，你認為仍舊還是以漲價為主嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：經濟部的立場就是綜合考量目前的經濟動盪以及國人的需求。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你這樣說就對了，因為你是經濟部，你一定會綜合考量，所以在你綜合考量之下，立即要到下個月、4月份。在目前綜合考量的情況之下，你現在還會認為漲價是好的方案嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：如果今天台電是民營企業的話，勢必要漲價。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請以目前台電的樣態……"],["郭部長智輝：但是台電現在是國營企業，它必須肩負國家照顧國人這樣的任務。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，這句話就對了！"],["郭部長智輝：所以這個任務我們要非常重視。剛才我想委員所指教的，也就是我們過去數年凍漲最重要的一個因素，我們現在是要請國家來補助台電，然後因為過去凍漲造成它負債，已經舉債到92%了。我們希望如果能夠撥補給我們，有舉債的空間，對我們來講，我想我們會做其他更好的努力啦！我們現在就是有一點，因為負債過大，剛才有人說你不要再增加舉債了啦！舉債的利息負擔更多等等，所以我要跟委員報告，您剛才所關心的部分，也是我們關心的部分，但是我們沒有辦法在價格調整之前做出肯定的決定，所以我們會把這些訊息，包括委員所關心的內容都提供給電價審議委員會，由他們斟酌、讓他們去討論。我相信在那些專家、學者之間，他們會討論出一個比較有智慧的決定。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，剛剛我運用了一分多鐘的時間讓部長說明，我真的希望聽到政府的立場。第一個，你會提供民眾的聲音，現在如果你一漲價，通膨是非常恐怖。因為目前我們看到如果再漲，尤其像媒體所披露的這個方案，CPI可能會上升到2%甚至以上的情況，大家有一個心聲，就是漲了就回不了頭。尤其在現階段，你身為經濟部部長，你必須綜合臺灣目前整個民生以及產業的樣態，這一點是非常重要，也請你將你剛剛善意的回應告訴電價委員會，務必在現階段凍漲，如果連市民小店家、民生用電都如此的要高漲到更高的水準，我想這是民眾沒有辦法接受的，而我們的目的是政府要好好的讓民眾好生活。工業電價最近這幾年也已經漲了數次，目前統計平均的單價已經高達4.29元，所以本席還是要奉勸，在現階段，你要怎麼樣讓民生、小店家能夠先安內，先不要漲，才不會導致通膨，你願意以這樣的方向來建議電價委員會嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員的叮嚀，我們一定會把你提的這些內容向電價審議委員會報告。不過我在這個地方向你說明一下，我們基本上的原則是工業電價不能夠高於我們的競爭對手國。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，所以你總是有一個防堵，這個目的就是要真正照顧我們的產業，但是另外一項，也就是我一直強調的，民生跟小店家現在苦不堪言，絕對不適合在這個階段漲。"],["郭部長智輝：這部分我一定會提供給審議委員會參考。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我相信你有這個能力，因為我不希望你成為一個只會漲價，人家號稱你是漲價部長，我不希望你是這個名稱。"],["郭部長智輝：我是經濟部長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為卓榮泰說他是AI內閣，我也不希望你是漲價部長，卓榮泰不是AI內閣而成為漲價內閣，您剛才回答的是你是經濟部長。"],["郭部長智輝：我不是漲價部長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你不是漲價部長，所以你務必……"],["郭部長智輝：也不是水電部長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，也不是水電部長，好，有guts！所以我希望我們好好的來照顧民生，這是一個非常重要的均衡樣態。","接下來本席要請教，關於買綠能，即菲律賓的這個案子，本席也聽到您說，您會實際上去考察，什麼時候會去考察？"],["郭部長智輝：我們大概在確定了以後會分批啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，大約？"],["郭部長智輝：就是實際上面……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：大約什麼時候？"],["郭部長智輝：我個人什麼時候可以去？可能就是我如果能夠請假出國的話就會去。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你非常想立即去，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：不是，我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你一定有一個評估，不要笑，對臺灣來講，你一直漲價，你解決不了台電的困境，你的能源政策要怎麼樣去調整？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們的專業……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這非常的重要！"],["郭部長智輝：是，我們專業的部分，包括能源局，包括工研院，包括相關的這些專家，他們會先去。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：大約什麼時候？"],["郭部長智輝：應該是月底之前吧！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：月底之前會出發。"],["郭部長智輝：嗯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席要請教，因為本席在前半年一直跟你討論，你也有回應，但是你告訴我們的都是具可行性。具可行性也就是還在空想，還沒有實際行動。"],["郭部長智輝：不是空想，可行性我是透過科學的檢驗方法……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們剛剛聽到你是說具可行性，但是你剛剛有說了，月底以前專家學者會出發，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：月底以前，這是你現在才告訴我們的，因為在書面答詢沒有這些資料。"],["郭部長智輝：不是，我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我們要實際去討論。接下來本席要請問，到底工程費用是多少？到底要採用的運電方式是什麼樣的方式？到底是原先說的海底電纜線？還是電池船的運輸？時程大概是什麼時候？請說明。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們是不是可以另外給你報告？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你給我報告，你有一個方案，但是我還是要問你，因為這個對我們國家來講是很重要、很重大的工程。"],["郭部長智輝：對，因為這裡面牽涉到一些我不方便在這裡報告的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要請教，是不是臺菲也採用了什麼樣的方式合作？我想這一點是非常的關鍵，請說明，有沒有合作？"],["郭部長智輝：這個部分我們不方便在這裡報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不方便講沒關係，有沒有合作？"],["郭部長智輝：這屬於國安部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，有沒有合作？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有合作，好！我們也希望……也就是在認真推動，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：我們當然是積極的在推動。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，是積極在推動。整個能源配比方式要怎麼做，就像本席剛才所說的，這幾年民生也漲了幾次，我不希望你成為一個漲價的部長，你剛才也說了你不是漲價部長。","最後一個議題本席要跟你討論的就是大阪世博，我回想當時我們在2022年一直在討論，這20億我們要怎麼花，我們有一個條件，因為以往上海世博沒有政府出資，都是臺商自己募款，現在我們當然支持臺灣的產業能夠在世界展露，因此最後我們協商的結果就是20億，一毛不刪！希望大家努力去做，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，這個是我們努力跟日本友好的關係……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好。"],["郭部長智輝：本來世博展，我們不是會員，所以根本就不會受到邀請去參與，這個由主辦國……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，這個就是本席要跟你討論的，當時你承諾的是會多方的讓臺灣出現，甚至持續透過管道，希望以臺灣館的面向來展出，現在我們是以TECH WORLD的方式，但是最近好像聽聞有媒體披露，日方認為臺灣經濟部的官方網站在本月6日發布的聲明內容，是希望能夠更明確說明不是以政府的立場，不是以「臺灣」兩個字的名義參展，有沒有這回事？請問有沒有這回事？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們不是國際展覽局（BIE）的成員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對。"],["郭部長智輝：所以沒有辦法直接參展。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當時我們很清楚，本席要請教，6號有沒有這回事？你們經濟部有沒有收到？"],["郭部長智輝：我們因為……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有收到？請你告訴我就好。"],["郭部長智輝：我們接受日本的邀請，已經是人家給我們很大的誠意。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我們用20億全力支持嘛！所以本席請教……"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們去參展，我們用……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：其中有變化的時候，是不是誠如媒體所說，經濟部有沒有接到這樣子的訊息？不管是文也好或者是我們的電子網，有沒有？"],["郭部長智輝：我們對於……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有？請告訴本席。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，對於報載的事情，你認為那個信度高嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你不用問我認不認，因為你是主事者，你可以告訴社會各位大眾，到底有還是沒有？"],["郭部長智輝：我個人是沒有收到這樣的訊息。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你個人沒有？經濟部有沒有？因為你是代表經濟部，你不是個人。"],["郭部長智輝：我代表經濟部，我剛才已經跟您報告，就是我沒有收到。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你沒有收到，好！因為本席也不希望我們被污衊，這個就是我們在質詢當中能夠好好溝通、說明清楚的。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員的垂詢。其實我們到日本參展這件事情，基本上我們不是會員沒有資格參展，但是日本基於友好的關係邀請我們參展，所以這裡面當然有一些對我們有惡意的國家就會來挑撥離間，會來見縫插針，所以我向委員說明……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，部長……"],["郭部長智輝：這一部分你要了解我們同仁之間在穿梭這個案件的時候是非常努力的，千萬不要落入親痛仇快這樣的境界。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你現在說明的立場也就是全國國民的心聲，我們也非常希望政府部門可以說明清楚，照你剛才說的，經濟部並沒有收到這樣的訊息，我們要讓國人安心，因為20億是大家全力的支持，也就是希望讓臺灣在世界能夠發光發熱，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：我們接受這個邀請去參展，到別人家做客，我想我們有很多事情必須要按照主人的條件、主人的規定來進行，我們並不可能恣意亂行，很多人要求我們做一些我認為是沒有太有意義的部分，這個反而讓我們窒礙難行，我想委員的好意應該也是這個部分，所以讓我們共同努力，實際上讓所有去參加這個展覽的人都能夠了解我們在TECH WORLD館能表現出我們非常優異的部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，部長，本席再次強調，也再次提醒，因為你在這裡有承諾，也就是說，我們既然不是在國家區，好不容易可以爭取到，所以20億全力的支持，也就是您所說的，希望能夠透過各方管道，能夠讓臺灣的意象能夠在這當中來展露，我想這是全國國民都非常期待的，我也希望有任何不正確的訊息，能夠透過經濟部嚴格去管控、說明清楚，而不是隨波逐流。再次強調我們的目的也就是希望讓我們的產業都能夠讓世界看得到，而且是跟世界接軌，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。現在請陳亭妃委員詢答，陳亭妃委員詢答完休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-3","speakers":["謝衣鳯","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","張嘉郡","呂玉玲","賴士葆","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","郭國文","陳昭姿","林月琴","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","徐富癸","羅智強","陳超明","林德福","牛煦庭","蔡易餘"],"page_start":193,"meetingDate":["2025-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1143002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143002_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143002_00004"}}}