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審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「學校營養飲食供餐法草案」案。(二十一) \t審查委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「高級中等以下學校供餐及飲食教育條例草案」案。(二十二) 審查委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」案。(二十三) 審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案。\n二、審查「運動產業發展條例」：\n(一) 審查委員柯志恩等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(二) 審查委員張智倫等 18 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(三) 審查委員洪孟楷等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(四) 審查委員王鴻薇等 19 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(五) 審查委員林倩綺等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第四條條文修正草案」案。(六) 審查委員沈發惠等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二條條文修正草案」案。(七) 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\"表面上的碎損這個背後創出了產值包括我們現在有大巨蛋也有我們台南的亞太棒球村那未來因為球場的這個規模變大然後大家球迷湧進那整個創造出來的產值包括我們亞太棒球村也有讓韓職來春訓那個整個產值大家來看韓星的啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 701.321, \"end\": 701.461, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 701.461, \"end\": 701.641, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 701.641, \"end\": 701.821, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 701.821, \"end\": 702.241, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"碎\", \"start\": 702.241, \"end\": 703.142, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"背\", \"start\": 703.142, \"end\": 703.542, \"score\": 0.627}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 703.542, \"end\": 703.702, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"創\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 703.702, \"end\": 703.862, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 703.862, \"end\": 704.382, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"值\", \"start\": 704.382, \"end\": 704.942, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 704.942, 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\"end\": 770.895, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 770.895, \"end\": 770.935, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 770.935, \"end\": 770.995, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 770.995, \"end\": 771.055, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 771.055, \"end\": 771.075, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"昭\", \"start\": 771.075, \"end\": 771.175, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 771.175, \"end\": 771.195, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,483 --> 00:00:05,786\n接著繼續進行質詢請林怡瑾委員林怡瑾趙薇質詢謝主席有請張亮次長有請次長被質詢謝謝趙薇好次長好\n\n2\n00:00:19,497 --> 00:00:25,060\n吃得好吃得健康我想不想直接影響我們孩子成長的狀況當然也影響各學生在各方面的表現所以正確的飲食跟健康觀念是跟著一個人一輩子的資產所以國家絕對有積極投資的必要\n\n3\n00:00:39,309 --> 00:00:57,103\n那所以在上一屆立委任期我們本席就有提出這個學校飲食法的草案這屆再提那不斷要求教育部要跟上腳步那我知道我們暢言那麼久教育部也準備那麼久終於有機會要端出演藝成果的時候\n\n4\n00:00:57,944 --> 00:01:14,702\n突然殺出個所謂的新版的才化法三毒從中央拿走了3700多億到地方那我們不知道說有哪些原本中央負責出錢辦理的事務那應該是跟著移轉到地方去辦理\n\n5\n00:01:16,223 --> 00:01:29,094\n讓許多的施政跟建設都處在一個不確定的狀況之下好那實際上教育部辦理營養午餐的業務每年本來就有固定的支出就誠如您剛剛的報告中央補助21億的午餐費那針對採用這個國產可售員食材中央是補助38億那針對偏鄉中學校的中央廚房的建置中央是補助15億\n\n6\n00:01:42,705 --> 00:01:45,108\n共計74億而且這是每年喔那原本由中央辦理的營養午餐的業務我們隨著這個新版的財化法上路那是否會移交到地方去那我們今天來談營養午餐專法那各委員的版本都有一些加碼的支出啦\n\n7\n00:02:00,566 --> 00:02:05,311\n那推估起來那應該也有26億那所以這個所謂的如果說這個營養午餐的專法如果真的通過之後那很可見的就是說整個的費用要有100億以上如果是中央來負責的話\n\n8\n00:02:17,282 --> 00:02:30,189\n那好那現在因為這個才化法出來了那所以中央跟地方要如何劃分這些我們都不知道所以未來分工不清楚的時候我要請教次長第一個是要叫我們把法案重新都撤回嗎那不然\n\n9\n00:02:32,210 --> 00:02:33,451\n我們今天談這個營養午餐的專法的所謂的加碼不是都空談嗎?\n\n10\n00:02:53,032 --> 00:03:16,618\n我想謝謝委員的關心其實事實上就是會遇到這樣子的一個難題就是說我們當然很希望每年這種74億的補助都能夠繼續然後這個修法的部分增加了26億中央也有財力來負擔我們一樣修法也買單那其實剛才署長跟我說其實不只是每年固定加碼的費用超過100億就是有關這個午餐專法\n\n11\n00:03:19,099 --> 00:03:36,836\n上路跟上路之前我們已經陸陸續續透過學校衛生法各種制度已經增加了74億每年的補助那如果說再增加26億最少那還有餐費餐費聽說還120億左右所以這個部分其實我們就是說在去年\n\n12\n00:03:37,836 --> 00:04:01,049\n各界的注意這關心下包括柴北部分黨派大家都希望趕快立專法所以我們也在去年大概有五次的這個座談諮詢然後在11月20做成佈板送院那一個月之後會遇到裁判法所以裁判法的衝擊那個政院方面要求我們做評估那在評估的過程裡面我們就發現說那這個中央午餐\n\n13\n00:04:02,669 --> 00:04:13,795\n這個營養午餐它的這個制度法地方制度法規範好像是地方的權責這是在很無奈的狀況下必須去檢討你說營養午餐是地方的國民中小學我想我剛才講的補助都是國民中小學居多那這部分我們怎麼樣子來跟地方政府再談恰談我們會盡快就是說這部分如果因為現在那個新版的裁判法已經上路那地方政府是不是願意就\n\n14\n00:04:29,283 --> 00:04:35,465\n這個過去已經補助的每年的74億做一些這個負擔然後這個新增的部分他們是願不願意負擔那假如都願意的話我們在這邊修這個法那個將來的權益義務可能也要一起來談那這樣子會比較能夠不去破壞到那個完整性\n\n15\n00:04:47,609 --> 00:05:12,601\n我們現在光是裁判法上路之後如果中央跟地方的權責不釐清將來負擔不釐清我們怎麼樣去保有孩子能夠至少這個74億不要動對於教育部國教署來講已經是一個非常頭痛的問題在裁判法上路之後那我們在心情上在修法大家講得很高興充滿理想熱情跟我以前當立委也一樣對不對\n\n16\n00:05:13,741 --> 00:05:33,443\n但是我們如何真的去增加這個經費然後這個經費是誰要來出這個不講清楚坦白講這個專法又會遇到新的問題過去的專法在很難整合就是說那個制度都不同有的地方是免費的有的地方是家長付費的有些部分是中央補助的\n\n17\n00:05:34,304 --> 00:06:02,702\n那在這種狀況下我們好不容易形成一個專法有一些共識了對可是這個現在很大的一個問題就是說那這個錢錢講起來很傷感情但是是最實際的我們中央地方怎麼樣的來來釐清這個權利跟意義我覺得這個恐怕我們必須要先去談了有一初步結果對於再進一步的把這個法請院方那邊來就是我們中央政府要好好的跟地方政府來談對詳細我可以再請署長來補充好\n\n18\n00:06:05,844 --> 00:06:20,667\n就是在溝通的過程中在108以來有三個問題那有偏鄉的問題有人力的問題有餐費的問題那因為這個問題不好整合但是我們又不能等所以在109開始就先解決剛才講的三個問題的第一個問題先把偏鄉做處理\n\n19\n00:06:24,748 --> 00:06:43,441\n雖然沒有專法很難整合但是我們還是跨出去做了偏鄉的處理投資63億做了解決而後年度為了偏鄉每年15億加計剛才講的59億全部加起來每年從111年開始每年74億那新法修了之後不含餐費就要增加26億含餐費\n\n20\n00:06:45,362 --> 00:07:12,418\n要達到220億所以不含餐費的話100億含餐費要高達到220億這個得要好好跟地方政府一起來了解地方政府拿到了這些才化法的裁員之後有沒有能力跟他會怎麼規劃我們想要保障學生的權益所以制度上得要談清楚以上跟委員補充就是說如果這個談清楚之後那分配的比例也清楚了可能這個法這個院版的這個法才能成熟\n\n21\n00:07:12,958 --> 00:07:41,162\n譬如說我們要加碼對不對營養師要加碼那加碼的錢是地方出還是中央出地方要補助多少像是植蜜啊午餐植蜜啊或是營養師啊等等對不對所以家來對孩子好我們都支持啦基本上方向都支持但是我們必須要為政策負責所以就必須要去講說這個問題怎麼解決那也請你們技術要談啦好不好那另外再來回到我們今天另外一個主題就是運動產業發展條例喔那本席剛提出版本\n\n22\n00:07:41,482 --> 00:07:46,044\n那當然這次主要是要修正26之2啦就是說有關於企業捐贈職業或業餘運動業或重點運動賽事免稅額的部分那現行的法規是2021我們修正的嘛那時候就是可以抵稅150%那當時本席也有參與修法\n\n23\n00:07:59,668 --> 00:08:05,350\n張亮萬堅當事委員也有一起那個時候其實我們是主張一開始我們是主張250%那因為我們先求有再求好的原則之下那財政部一直哀哀叫所以我們就用150%上路那過了三年了那現在時機成熟了嗎\n\n24\n00:08:18,655 --> 00:08:33,611\n那署長還是次長過了三年了就是說150%變成250%有沒有機會委員我想你知道我的心裡是期待的但是部會就是議題大家還在溝通那我們也希望\n\n25\n00:08:34,591 --> 00:08:55,587\n其實我們現在看到的數據每年底稅的大概額度三年了大概從11億左右去年好像11億前年10億那職業運動大概去年底的10億那當時協商的時候門檻是可以到30億那為什麼會沒有辦法用到那麼多可能有一些結構的因素那看法也不太一樣這個部分我必須承認\n\n26\n00:08:56,368 --> 00:09:08,121\n但是我們還是希望運動部上路之後為了優化運動產業的經營我們當然希望在租稅優惠方面能夠爭取到更大的一個額度那這部分我們就是財政部有代表來\n\n27\n00:09:09,073 --> 00:09:32,095\n我們是不是要請他們對啊因為體育署是說如果根據這個專戶的運作來看受證金額最多只到11億嘛那沒有達到上限30億所以稅水影響其實有限的啊那加上我們運動部再來要掛牌所以整體的運動產業要大爆發的時候所以這個時候如果不把\n\n28\n00:09:33,537 --> 00:09:49,553\n減免銀索稅的額度調到250%那增加這個動機讓更多企業投入運動產業那要更待何時所以這個時候是更加把握的時候對不對對我想委員的關心有一定的這個一定會有一定的效果\n\n29\n00:09:50,194 --> 00:10:13,132\n好那所以我想這個再請大家努力啦那如果說讓我們如果說250%當然這是我們心目中的願想那如果財政部還是有很大很大的意見那您覺得有什麼折衷的方案嗎我想這個是列入我們院的這個優先法案所以這部分我們會再來研商\n\n30\n00:10:13,752 --> 00:10:29,348\n那因為委員的版本相當多朝野也都有一些不同黨派也有相同的提案所以這部分我們會持續來討論也會尊重委員的意見那我再請教一下因為之前體育署有說財政財政部要在3月14號開會討論這個議題那到底討論的狀況如何我們請財政部來說明\n\n31\n00:10:40,297 --> 00:10:45,021\n跟委員報告目前的現在的現行法是那個費用加成就是150嘛那150其實相當於說企業他捐贈100塊裡面有30是政府補助就政府補助的比例已經達三成其實這個是補助比例很高啦那因為企業捐贈的對象是企業他自己決定的\n\n32\n00:11:01,516 --> 00:11:20,007\n那政府已經配合企業他捐70塊政府已經出了30塊這個比例很高那是不是要再提高我們可以再跟這個教育部大家再一起再來可是他背後所創造的產值那是不是這樣子的來計算的好你說像我再簡單說一下像說我們因為改成150所以我們職棒變了6對這個我想知道市長最清楚\n\n33\n00:11:25,891 --> 00:11:39,240\n那多了台鋼雄鷹在六支隊伍之後那你看整個職棒蓬勃發展那特別是我們又拿到十二強的第一我想這個都是因為有六隊然後整個的效應所產生的所以不要簡單看這個\n\n34\n00:11:41,321 --> 00:11:53,905\n表面上的碎損這個背後創出了產值包括我們現在有大巨蛋也有我們台南的亞太棒球村那未來因為球場的這個規模變大然後大家球迷湧進那整個創造出來的產值包括我們亞太棒球村也有讓韓職來春訓那個整個產值大家來看韓星的啦\n\n35\n00:12:03,308 --> 00:12:32,668\n將來有試對未來會有試對Okinawa本來是日值韓值的最佳春訓基地那他們的產值一年是上百億的那可是我們開始慢慢在經營這一塊我覺得我們未來有可能會超過Okinawa因為我們的條件都比他們更好所以我想財政部要拜託您就是說不要看表面上的稅損或者說國家先補助多少我覺得那個背後所創造出來的產值的那個稅才是更驚人的啦\n\n36\n00:12:34,208 --> 00:12:51,195\n我們會跟財政部還有這個企業投資的這些企業團體來找個機會一起來溝通因為我們會盡快因為這個布板署這邊已經準備要提了那目前因為沒有共識所以我們就是用尊重立委提案的方式將來也會併審來討論OK好謝謝次長謝謝署長謝謝昭偉好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n483\t5786\t接著繼續進行質詢請林怡瑾委員 林怡瑾 趙薇質詢謝主席 有請張亮次長有請次長被質詢 謝謝趙薇好次長好\n19497\t25060\t吃得好 吃得健康我想不想直接影響我們孩子成長的狀況當然也影響各學生在各方面的表現所以正確的飲食跟健康觀念是跟著一個人一輩子的資產所以國家絕對有積極投資的必要\n39309\t57103\t那所以在上一屆立委任期我們本席就有提出這個學校飲食法的草案這屆再提那不斷要求教育部要跟上腳步那我知道我們暢言那麼久教育部也準備那麼久終於有機會要端出演藝成果的時候\n57944\t74702\t突然殺出個所謂的新版的才化法三毒從中央拿走了3700多億到地方那我們不知道說有哪些原本中央負責出錢辦理的事務那應該是跟著移轉到地方去辦理\n76223\t89094\t讓許多的施政跟建設都處在一個不確定的狀況之下好那實際上教育部辦理營養午餐的業務每年本來就有固定的支出就誠如您剛剛的報告中央補助21億的午餐費那針對採用這個國產可售員食材中央是補助38億那針對偏鄉中學校的中央廚房的建置中央是補助15億\n102705\t105108\t共計74億而且這是每年喔那原本由中央辦理的營養午餐的業務我們隨著這個新版的財化法上路那是否會移交到地方去那我們今天來談營養午餐專法那各委員的版本都有一些加碼的支出啦\n120566\t125311\t那推估起來那應該也有26億那所以這個所謂的如果說這個營養午餐的專法如果真的通過之後那很可見的就是說整個的費用要有100億以上如果是中央來負責的話\n137282\t150189\t那好那現在因為這個才化法出來了那所以中央跟地方要如何劃分這些我們都不知道所以未來分工不清楚的時候我要請教次長第一個是要叫我們把法案重新都撤回嗎那不然\n152210\t153451\t我們今天談這個營養午餐的專法的所謂的加碼不是都空談嗎?\n173032\t196618\t我想謝謝委員的關心其實事實上就是會遇到這樣子的一個難題就是說我們當然很希望每年這種74億的補助都能夠繼續然後這個修法的部分增加了26億中央也有財力來負擔我們一樣修法也買單那其實剛才署長跟我說其實不只是每年固定加碼的費用超過100億就是有關這個午餐專法\n199099\t216836\t上路跟上路之前我們已經陸陸續續透過學校衛生法各種制度已經增加了74億每年的補助那如果說再增加26億最少那還有餐費餐費聽說還120億左右所以這個部分其實我們就是說在去年\n217836\t241049\t各界的注意這關心下包括柴北部分黨派大家都希望趕快立專法所以我們也在去年大概有五次的這個座談諮詢然後在11月20做成佈板送院那一個月之後會遇到裁判法所以裁判法的衝擊那個政院方面要求我們做評估那在評估的過程裡面我們就發現說那這個中央午餐\n242669\t253795\t這個營養午餐它的這個制度法地方制度法規範好像是地方的權責這是在很無奈的狀況下必須去檢討你說營養午餐是地方的國民中小學我想我剛才講的補助都是國民中小學居多那這部分我們怎麼樣子來跟地方政府再談恰談我們會盡快就是說這部分如果因為現在那個新版的裁判法已經上路那地方政府是不是願意就\n269283\t275465\t這個過去已經補助的每年的74億做一些這個負擔然後這個新增的部分他們是願不願意負擔那假如都願意的話我們在這邊修這個法那個將來的權益義務可能也要一起來談那這樣子會比較能夠不去破壞到那個完整性\n287609\t312601\t我們現在光是裁判法上路之後如果中央跟地方的權責不釐清將來負擔不釐清我們怎麼樣去保有孩子能夠至少這個74億不要動對於教育部國教署來講已經是一個非常頭痛的問題在裁判法上路之後那我們在心情上在修法大家講得很高興充滿理想熱情跟我以前當立委也一樣對不對\n313741\t333443\t但是我們如何真的去增加這個經費然後這個經費是誰要來出這個不講清楚坦白講這個專法又會遇到新的問題過去的專法在很難整合就是說那個制度都不同有的地方是免費的有的地方是家長付費的有些部分是中央補助的\n334304\t362702\t那在這種狀況下我們好不容易形成一個專法有一些共識了對可是這個現在很大的一個問題就是說那這個錢錢講起來很傷感情但是是最實際的我們中央地方怎麼樣的來來釐清這個權利跟意義我覺得這個恐怕我們必須要先去談了有一初步結果對於再進一步的把這個法請院方那邊來就是我們中央政府要好好的跟地方政府來談對 詳細我可以再請署長來補充好\n365844\t380667\t就是在溝通的過程中在108以來有三個問題那有偏鄉的問題有人力的問題有餐費的問題那因為這個問題不好整合但是我們又不能等所以在109開始就先解決剛才講的三個問題的第一個問題先把偏鄉做處理\n384748\t403441\t雖然沒有專法很難整合但是我們還是跨出去做了偏鄉的處理投資63億做了解決而後年度為了偏鄉每年15億加計剛才講的59億全部加起來每年從111年開始每年74億那新法修了之後不含餐費就要增加26億含餐費\n405362\t432418\t要達到220億所以不含餐費的話100億含餐費要高達到220億這個得要好好跟地方政府一起來了解地方政府拿到了這些才化法的裁員之後有沒有能力跟他會怎麼規劃我們想要保障學生的權益所以制度上得要談清楚以上跟委員補充就是說如果這個談清楚之後那分配的比例也清楚了可能這個法這個院版的這個法才能成熟\n432958\t461162\t譬如說我們要加碼對不對 營養師要加碼那加碼的錢是地方出還是中央出地方要補助多少像是植蜜啊 午餐植蜜啊 或是營養師啊 等等對不對所以家來對孩子好 我們都支持啦基本上方向都支持但是我們必須要為政策負責所以就必須要去講說這個問題怎麼解決那也請你們技術要談啦 好不好那另外 再來回到我們今天另外一個主題就是運動產業發展條例喔那本席剛提出版本\n461482\t466044\t那當然這次主要是要修正26之2啦就是說有關於企業捐贈職業或業餘運動業或重點運動賽事免稅額的部分那現行的法規是2021我們修正的嘛那時候就是可以抵稅150%那當時本席也有參與修法\n479668\t485350\t張亮 萬堅 當事委員也有一起那個時候其實我們是主張一開始我們是主張250%那因為我們先求有再求好的原則之下那財政部一直哀哀叫所以我們就用150%上路那過了三年了那現在時機成熟了嗎\n498655\t513611\t那署長還是次長過了三年了就是說150%變成250%有沒有機會委員我想你知道我的心裡是期待的但是部會就是議題大家還在溝通那我們也希望\n514591\t535587\t其實我們現在看到的數據每年底稅的大概額度三年了大概從11億左右去年好像11億前年10億那職業運動大概去年底的10億那當時協商的時候門檻是可以到30億那為什麼會沒有辦法用到那麼多可能有一些結構的因素那看法也不太一樣這個部分我必須承認\n536368\t548121\t但是我們還是希望運動部上路之後為了優化運動產業的經營我們當然希望在租稅優惠方面能夠爭取到更大的一個額度那這部分我們就是財政部有代表來\n549073\t572095\t我們是不是要請他們對啊因為體育署是說如果根據這個專戶的運作來看受證金額最多只到11億嘛那沒有達到上限30億所以稅水影響其實有限的啊那加上我們運動部再來要掛牌所以整體的運動產業要大爆發的時候所以這個時候如果不把\n573537\t589553\t減免銀索稅的額度調到250%那增加這個動機讓更多企業投入運動產業那要更待何時所以這個時候是更加把握的時候對不對對 我想委員的關心有一定的這個一定會有一定的效果\n590194\t613132\t好那所以我想這個再請大家努力啦那如果說讓我們如果說250%當然這是我們心目中的願想那如果財政部還是有很大很大的意見那您覺得有什麼折衷的方案嗎我想這個是列入我們院的這個優先法案所以這部分我們會再來研商\n613752\t629348\t那因為委員的版本相當多朝野也都有一些不同黨派也有相同的提案所以這部分我們會持續來討論也會尊重委員的意見那我再請教一下因為之前體育署有說財政財政部要在3月14號開會討論這個議題那到底討論的狀況如何我們請財政部來說明\n640297\t645021\t跟委員報告目前的現在的現行法是那個費用加成就是150嘛那150其實相當於說企業他捐贈100塊裡面有30是政府補助就政府補助的比例已經達三成其實這個是補助比例很高啦那因為企業捐贈的對象是企業他自己決定的\n661516\t680007\t那政府已經配合企業他捐70塊政府已經出了30塊這個比例很高那是不是要再提高我們可以再跟這個教育部大家再一起再來可是他背後所創造的產值那是不是這樣子的來計算的好你說像我再簡單說一下像說我們因為改成150所以我們職棒變了6對這個我想知道市長最清楚\n685891\t699240\t那多了台鋼雄鷹在六支隊伍之後那你看整個職棒蓬勃發展那特別是我們又拿到十二強的第一我想這個都是因為有六隊然後整個的效應所產生的所以不要簡單看這個\n701321\t713905\t表面上的碎損這個背後創出了產值包括我們現在有大巨蛋也有我們台南的亞太棒球村那未來因為球場的這個規模變大然後大家球迷湧進那整個創造出來的產值包括我們亞太棒球村也有讓韓職來春訓那個整個產值大家來看韓星的啦\n723308\t752668\t將來有試對 未來會有試對Okinawa 本來是日值 韓值的最佳春訓基地那他們的產值一年是上百億的那可是我們開始慢慢在經營這一塊我覺得我們未來有可能會超過Okinawa因為我們的條件都比他們更好所以我想 財政部要拜託您就是說不要看表面上的稅損或者說國家先補助多少我覺得那個背後所創造出來的產值的那個稅才是更驚人的啦\n754208\t771195\t我們會跟財政部還有這個企業投資的這些企業團體來找個機會一起來溝通因為我們會盡快因為這個布板署這邊已經準備要提了那目前因為沒有共識所以我們就是用尊重立委提案的方式將來也會併審來討論OK 好 謝謝次長 謝謝署長 謝謝昭偉好 謝謝\n","txt":"接著繼續進行質詢請林怡瑾委員 林怡瑾 趙薇質詢謝主席 有請張亮次長有請次長被質詢 謝謝趙薇好次長好\n吃得好 吃得健康我想不想直接影響我們孩子成長的狀況當然也影響各學生在各方面的表現所以正確的飲食跟健康觀念是跟著一個人一輩子的資產所以國家絕對有積極投資的必要\n那所以在上一屆立委任期我們本席就有提出這個學校飲食法的草案這屆再提那不斷要求教育部要跟上腳步那我知道我們暢言那麼久教育部也準備那麼久終於有機會要端出演藝成果的時候\n突然殺出個所謂的新版的才化法三毒從中央拿走了3700多億到地方那我們不知道說有哪些原本中央負責出錢辦理的事務那應該是跟著移轉到地方去辦理\n讓許多的施政跟建設都處在一個不確定的狀況之下好那實際上教育部辦理營養午餐的業務每年本來就有固定的支出就誠如您剛剛的報告中央補助21億的午餐費那針對採用這個國產可售員食材中央是補助38億那針對偏鄉中學校的中央廚房的建置中央是補助15億\n共計74億而且這是每年喔那原本由中央辦理的營養午餐的業務我們隨著這個新版的財化法上路那是否會移交到地方去那我們今天來談營養午餐專法那各委員的版本都有一些加碼的支出啦\n那推估起來那應該也有26億那所以這個所謂的如果說這個營養午餐的專法如果真的通過之後那很可見的就是說整個的費用要有100億以上如果是中央來負責的話\n那好那現在因為這個才化法出來了那所以中央跟地方要如何劃分這些我們都不知道所以未來分工不清楚的時候我要請教次長第一個是要叫我們把法案重新都撤回嗎那不然\n我們今天談這個營養午餐的專法的所謂的加碼不是都空談嗎?\n我想謝謝委員的關心其實事實上就是會遇到這樣子的一個難題就是說我們當然很希望每年這種74億的補助都能夠繼續然後這個修法的部分增加了26億中央也有財力來負擔我們一樣修法也買單那其實剛才署長跟我說其實不只是每年固定加碼的費用超過100億就是有關這個午餐專法\n上路跟上路之前我們已經陸陸續續透過學校衛生法各種制度已經增加了74億每年的補助那如果說再增加26億最少那還有餐費餐費聽說還120億左右所以這個部分其實我們就是說在去年\n各界的注意這關心下包括柴北部分黨派大家都希望趕快立專法所以我們也在去年大概有五次的這個座談諮詢然後在11月20做成佈板送院那一個月之後會遇到裁判法所以裁判法的衝擊那個政院方面要求我們做評估那在評估的過程裡面我們就發現說那這個中央午餐\n這個營養午餐它的這個制度法地方制度法規範好像是地方的權責這是在很無奈的狀況下必須去檢討你說營養午餐是地方的國民中小學我想我剛才講的補助都是國民中小學居多那這部分我們怎麼樣子來跟地方政府再談恰談我們會盡快就是說這部分如果因為現在那個新版的裁判法已經上路那地方政府是不是願意就\n這個過去已經補助的每年的74億做一些這個負擔然後這個新增的部分他們是願不願意負擔那假如都願意的話我們在這邊修這個法那個將來的權益義務可能也要一起來談那這樣子會比較能夠不去破壞到那個完整性\n我們現在光是裁判法上路之後如果中央跟地方的權責不釐清將來負擔不釐清我們怎麼樣去保有孩子能夠至少這個74億不要動對於教育部國教署來講已經是一個非常頭痛的問題在裁判法上路之後那我們在心情上在修法大家講得很高興充滿理想熱情跟我以前當立委也一樣對不對\n但是我們如何真的去增加這個經費然後這個經費是誰要來出這個不講清楚坦白講這個專法又會遇到新的問題過去的專法在很難整合就是說那個制度都不同有的地方是免費的有的地方是家長付費的有些部分是中央補助的\n那在這種狀況下我們好不容易形成一個專法有一些共識了對可是這個現在很大的一個問題就是說那這個錢錢講起來很傷感情但是是最實際的我們中央地方怎麼樣的來來釐清這個權利跟意義我覺得這個恐怕我們必須要先去談了有一初步結果對於再進一步的把這個法請院方那邊來就是我們中央政府要好好的跟地方政府來談對 詳細我可以再請署長來補充好\n就是在溝通的過程中在108以來有三個問題那有偏鄉的問題有人力的問題有餐費的問題那因為這個問題不好整合但是我們又不能等所以在109開始就先解決剛才講的三個問題的第一個問題先把偏鄉做處理\n雖然沒有專法很難整合但是我們還是跨出去做了偏鄉的處理投資63億做了解決而後年度為了偏鄉每年15億加計剛才講的59億全部加起來每年從111年開始每年74億那新法修了之後不含餐費就要增加26億含餐費\n要達到220億所以不含餐費的話100億含餐費要高達到220億這個得要好好跟地方政府一起來了解地方政府拿到了這些才化法的裁員之後有沒有能力跟他會怎麼規劃我們想要保障學生的權益所以制度上得要談清楚以上跟委員補充就是說如果這個談清楚之後那分配的比例也清楚了可能這個法這個院版的這個法才能成熟\n譬如說我們要加碼對不對 營養師要加碼那加碼的錢是地方出還是中央出地方要補助多少像是植蜜啊 午餐植蜜啊 或是營養師啊 等等對不對所以家來對孩子好 我們都支持啦基本上方向都支持但是我們必須要為政策負責所以就必須要去講說這個問題怎麼解決那也請你們技術要談啦 好不好那另外 再來回到我們今天另外一個主題就是運動產業發展條例喔那本席剛提出版本\n那當然這次主要是要修正26之2啦就是說有關於企業捐贈職業或業餘運動業或重點運動賽事免稅額的部分那現行的法規是2021我們修正的嘛那時候就是可以抵稅150%那當時本席也有參與修法\n張亮 萬堅 當事委員也有一起那個時候其實我們是主張一開始我們是主張250%那因為我們先求有再求好的原則之下那財政部一直哀哀叫所以我們就用150%上路那過了三年了那現在時機成熟了嗎\n那署長還是次長過了三年了就是說150%變成250%有沒有機會委員我想你知道我的心裡是期待的但是部會就是議題大家還在溝通那我們也希望\n其實我們現在看到的數據每年底稅的大概額度三年了大概從11億左右去年好像11億前年10億那職業運動大概去年底的10億那當時協商的時候門檻是可以到30億那為什麼會沒有辦法用到那麼多可能有一些結構的因素那看法也不太一樣這個部分我必須承認\n但是我們還是希望運動部上路之後為了優化運動產業的經營我們當然希望在租稅優惠方面能夠爭取到更大的一個額度那這部分我們就是財政部有代表來\n我們是不是要請他們對啊因為體育署是說如果根據這個專戶的運作來看受證金額最多只到11億嘛那沒有達到上限30億所以稅水影響其實有限的啊那加上我們運動部再來要掛牌所以整體的運動產業要大爆發的時候所以這個時候如果不把\n減免銀索稅的額度調到250%那增加這個動機讓更多企業投入運動產業那要更待何時所以這個時候是更加把握的時候對不對對 我想委員的關心有一定的這個一定會有一定的效果\n好那所以我想這個再請大家努力啦那如果說讓我們如果說250%當然這是我們心目中的願想那如果財政部還是有很大很大的意見那您覺得有什麼折衷的方案嗎我想這個是列入我們院的這個優先法案所以這部分我們會再來研商\n那因為委員的版本相當多朝野也都有一些不同黨派也有相同的提案所以這部分我們會持續來討論也會尊重委員的意見那我再請教一下因為之前體育署有說財政財政部要在3月14號開會討論這個議題那到底討論的狀況如何我們請財政部來說明\n跟委員報告目前的現在的現行法是那個費用加成就是150嘛那150其實相當於說企業他捐贈100塊裡面有30是政府補助就政府補助的比例已經達三成其實這個是補助比例很高啦那因為企業捐贈的對象是企業他自己決定的\n那政府已經配合企業他捐70塊政府已經出了30塊這個比例很高那是不是要再提高我們可以再跟這個教育部大家再一起再來可是他背後所創造的產值那是不是這樣子的來計算的好你說像我再簡單說一下像說我們因為改成150所以我們職棒變了6對這個我想知道市長最清楚\n那多了台鋼雄鷹在六支隊伍之後那你看整個職棒蓬勃發展那特別是我們又拿到十二強的第一我想這個都是因為有六隊然後整個的效應所產生的所以不要簡單看這個\n表面上的碎損這個背後創出了產值包括我們現在有大巨蛋也有我們台南的亞太棒球村那未來因為球場的這個規模變大然後大家球迷湧進那整個創造出來的產值包括我們亞太棒球村也有讓韓職來春訓那個整個產值大家來看韓星的啦\n將來有試對 未來會有試對Okinawa 本來是日值 韓值的最佳春訓基地那他們的產值一年是上百億的那可是我們開始慢慢在經營這一塊我覺得我們未來有可能會超過Okinawa因為我們的條件都比他們更好所以我想 財政部要拜託您就是說不要看表面上的稅損或者說國家先補助多少我覺得那個背後所創造出來的產值的那個稅才是更驚人的啦\n我們會跟財政部還有這個企業投資的這些企業團體來找個機會一起來溝通因為我們會盡快因為這個布板署這邊已經準備要提了那目前因為沒有共識所以我們就是用尊重立委提案的方式將來也會併審來討論OK 好 謝謝次長 謝謝署長 謝謝昭偉好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.483 --> 00:05.786\n接著繼續進行質詢請林怡瑾委員林怡瑾趙薇質詢謝主席有請張亮次長有請次長被質詢謝謝趙薇好次長好\n\n00:19.497 --> 00:25.060\n吃得好吃得健康我想不想直接影響我們孩子成長的狀況當然也影響各學生在各方面的表現所以正確的飲食跟健康觀念是跟著一個人一輩子的資產所以國家絕對有積極投資的必要\n\n00:39.309 --> 00:57.103\n那所以在上一屆立委任期我們本席就有提出這個學校飲食法的草案這屆再提那不斷要求教育部要跟上腳步那我知道我們暢言那麼久教育部也準備那麼久終於有機會要端出演藝成果的時候\n\n00:57.944 --> 01:14.702\n突然殺出個所謂的新版的才化法三毒從中央拿走了3700多億到地方那我們不知道說有哪些原本中央負責出錢辦理的事務那應該是跟著移轉到地方去辦理\n\n01:16.223 --> 01:29.094\n讓許多的施政跟建設都處在一個不確定的狀況之下好那實際上教育部辦理營養午餐的業務每年本來就有固定的支出就誠如您剛剛的報告中央補助21億的午餐費那針對採用這個國產可售員食材中央是補助38億那針對偏鄉中學校的中央廚房的建置中央是補助15億\n\n01:42.705 --> 01:45.108\n共計74億而且這是每年喔那原本由中央辦理的營養午餐的業務我們隨著這個新版的財化法上路那是否會移交到地方去那我們今天來談營養午餐專法那各委員的版本都有一些加碼的支出啦\n\n02:00.566 --> 02:05.311\n那推估起來那應該也有26億那所以這個所謂的如果說這個營養午餐的專法如果真的通過之後那很可見的就是說整個的費用要有100億以上如果是中央來負責的話\n\n02:17.282 --> 02:30.189\n那好那現在因為這個才化法出來了那所以中央跟地方要如何劃分這些我們都不知道所以未來分工不清楚的時候我要請教次長第一個是要叫我們把法案重新都撤回嗎那不然\n\n02:32.210 --> 02:33.451\n我們今天談這個營養午餐的專法的所謂的加碼不是都空談嗎?\n\n02:53.032 --> 03:16.618\n我想謝謝委員的關心其實事實上就是會遇到這樣子的一個難題就是說我們當然很希望每年這種74億的補助都能夠繼續然後這個修法的部分增加了26億中央也有財力來負擔我們一樣修法也買單那其實剛才署長跟我說其實不只是每年固定加碼的費用超過100億就是有關這個午餐專法\n\n03:19.099 --> 03:36.836\n上路跟上路之前我們已經陸陸續續透過學校衛生法各種制度已經增加了74億每年的補助那如果說再增加26億最少那還有餐費餐費聽說還120億左右所以這個部分其實我們就是說在去年\n\n03:37.836 --> 04:01.049\n各界的注意這關心下包括柴北部分黨派大家都希望趕快立專法所以我們也在去年大概有五次的這個座談諮詢然後在11月20做成佈板送院那一個月之後會遇到裁判法所以裁判法的衝擊那個政院方面要求我們做評估那在評估的過程裡面我們就發現說那這個中央午餐\n\n04:02.669 --> 04:13.795\n這個營養午餐它的這個制度法地方制度法規範好像是地方的權責這是在很無奈的狀況下必須去檢討你說營養午餐是地方的國民中小學我想我剛才講的補助都是國民中小學居多那這部分我們怎麼樣子來跟地方政府再談恰談我們會盡快就是說這部分如果因為現在那個新版的裁判法已經上路那地方政府是不是願意就\n\n04:29.283 --> 04:35.465\n這個過去已經補助的每年的74億做一些這個負擔然後這個新增的部分他們是願不願意負擔那假如都願意的話我們在這邊修這個法那個將來的權益義務可能也要一起來談那這樣子會比較能夠不去破壞到那個完整性\n\n04:47.609 --> 05:12.601\n我們現在光是裁判法上路之後如果中央跟地方的權責不釐清將來負擔不釐清我們怎麼樣去保有孩子能夠至少這個74億不要動對於教育部國教署來講已經是一個非常頭痛的問題在裁判法上路之後那我們在心情上在修法大家講得很高興充滿理想熱情跟我以前當立委也一樣對不對\n\n05:13.741 --> 05:33.443\n但是我們如何真的去增加這個經費然後這個經費是誰要來出這個不講清楚坦白講這個專法又會遇到新的問題過去的專法在很難整合就是說那個制度都不同有的地方是免費的有的地方是家長付費的有些部分是中央補助的\n\n05:34.304 --> 06:02.702\n那在這種狀況下我們好不容易形成一個專法有一些共識了對可是這個現在很大的一個問題就是說那這個錢錢講起來很傷感情但是是最實際的我們中央地方怎麼樣的來來釐清這個權利跟意義我覺得這個恐怕我們必須要先去談了有一初步結果對於再進一步的把這個法請院方那邊來就是我們中央政府要好好的跟地方政府來談對詳細我可以再請署長來補充好\n\n06:05.844 --> 06:20.667\n就是在溝通的過程中在108以來有三個問題那有偏鄉的問題有人力的問題有餐費的問題那因為這個問題不好整合但是我們又不能等所以在109開始就先解決剛才講的三個問題的第一個問題先把偏鄉做處理\n\n06:24.748 --> 06:43.441\n雖然沒有專法很難整合但是我們還是跨出去做了偏鄉的處理投資63億做了解決而後年度為了偏鄉每年15億加計剛才講的59億全部加起來每年從111年開始每年74億那新法修了之後不含餐費就要增加26億含餐費\n\n06:45.362 --> 07:12.418\n要達到220億所以不含餐費的話100億含餐費要高達到220億這個得要好好跟地方政府一起來了解地方政府拿到了這些才化法的裁員之後有沒有能力跟他會怎麼規劃我們想要保障學生的權益所以制度上得要談清楚以上跟委員補充就是說如果這個談清楚之後那分配的比例也清楚了可能這個法這個院版的這個法才能成熟\n\n07:12.958 --> 07:41.162\n譬如說我們要加碼對不對營養師要加碼那加碼的錢是地方出還是中央出地方要補助多少像是植蜜啊午餐植蜜啊或是營養師啊等等對不對所以家來對孩子好我們都支持啦基本上方向都支持但是我們必須要為政策負責所以就必須要去講說這個問題怎麼解決那也請你們技術要談啦好不好那另外再來回到我們今天另外一個主題就是運動產業發展條例喔那本席剛提出版本\n\n07:41.482 --> 07:46.044\n那當然這次主要是要修正26之2啦就是說有關於企業捐贈職業或業餘運動業或重點運動賽事免稅額的部分那現行的法規是2021我們修正的嘛那時候就是可以抵稅150%那當時本席也有參與修法\n\n07:59.668 --> 08:05.350\n張亮萬堅當事委員也有一起那個時候其實我們是主張一開始我們是主張250%那因為我們先求有再求好的原則之下那財政部一直哀哀叫所以我們就用150%上路那過了三年了那現在時機成熟了嗎\n\n08:18.655 --> 08:33.611\n那署長還是次長過了三年了就是說150%變成250%有沒有機會委員我想你知道我的心裡是期待的但是部會就是議題大家還在溝通那我們也希望\n\n08:34.591 --> 08:55.587\n其實我們現在看到的數據每年底稅的大概額度三年了大概從11億左右去年好像11億前年10億那職業運動大概去年底的10億那當時協商的時候門檻是可以到30億那為什麼會沒有辦法用到那麼多可能有一些結構的因素那看法也不太一樣這個部分我必須承認\n\n08:56.368 --> 09:08.121\n但是我們還是希望運動部上路之後為了優化運動產業的經營我們當然希望在租稅優惠方面能夠爭取到更大的一個額度那這部分我們就是財政部有代表來\n\n09:09.073 --> 09:32.095\n我們是不是要請他們對啊因為體育署是說如果根據這個專戶的運作來看受證金額最多只到11億嘛那沒有達到上限30億所以稅水影響其實有限的啊那加上我們運動部再來要掛牌所以整體的運動產業要大爆發的時候所以這個時候如果不把\n\n09:33.537 --> 09:49.553\n減免銀索稅的額度調到250%那增加這個動機讓更多企業投入運動產業那要更待何時所以這個時候是更加把握的時候對不對對我想委員的關心有一定的這個一定會有一定的效果\n\n09:50.194 --> 10:13.132\n好那所以我想這個再請大家努力啦那如果說讓我們如果說250%當然這是我們心目中的願想那如果財政部還是有很大很大的意見那您覺得有什麼折衷的方案嗎我想這個是列入我們院的這個優先法案所以這部分我們會再來研商\n\n10:13.752 --> 10:29.348\n那因為委員的版本相當多朝野也都有一些不同黨派也有相同的提案所以這部分我們會持續來討論也會尊重委員的意見那我再請教一下因為之前體育署有說財政財政部要在3月14號開會討論這個議題那到底討論的狀況如何我們請財政部來說明\n\n10:40.297 --> 10:45.021\n跟委員報告目前的現在的現行法是那個費用加成就是150嘛那150其實相當於說企業他捐贈100塊裡面有30是政府補助就政府補助的比例已經達三成其實這個是補助比例很高啦那因為企業捐贈的對象是企業他自己決定的\n\n11:01.516 --> 11:20.007\n那政府已經配合企業他捐70塊政府已經出了30塊這個比例很高那是不是要再提高我們可以再跟這個教育部大家再一起再來可是他背後所創造的產值那是不是這樣子的來計算的好你說像我再簡單說一下像說我們因為改成150所以我們職棒變了6對這個我想知道市長最清楚\n\n11:25.891 --> 11:39.240\n那多了台鋼雄鷹在六支隊伍之後那你看整個職棒蓬勃發展那特別是我們又拿到十二強的第一我想這個都是因為有六隊然後整個的效應所產生的所以不要簡單看這個\n\n11:41.321 --> 11:53.905\n表面上的碎損這個背後創出了產值包括我們現在有大巨蛋也有我們台南的亞太棒球村那未來因為球場的這個規模變大然後大家球迷湧進那整個創造出來的產值包括我們亞太棒球村也有讓韓職來春訓那個整個產值大家來看韓星的啦\n\n12:03.308 --> 12:32.668\n將來有試對未來會有試對Okinawa本來是日值韓值的最佳春訓基地那他們的產值一年是上百億的那可是我們開始慢慢在經營這一塊我覺得我們未來有可能會超過Okinawa因為我們的條件都比他們更好所以我想財政部要拜託您就是說不要看表面上的稅損或者說國家先補助多少我覺得那個背後所創造出來的產值的那個稅才是更驚人的啦\n\n12:34.208 --> 12:51.195\n我們會跟財政部還有這個企業投資的這些企業團體來找個機會一起來溝通因為我們會盡快因為這個布板署這邊已經準備要提了那目前因為沒有共識所以我們就是用尊重立委提案的方式將來也會併審來討論OK好謝謝次長謝謝署長謝謝昭偉好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.483,"end":5.786,"text":"接著繼續進行質詢請林怡瑾委員 林怡瑾 趙薇質詢謝主席 有請張亮次長有請次長被質詢 謝謝趙薇好次長好"},{"start":19.497,"end":25.06,"text":"吃得好 吃得健康我想不想直接影響我們孩子成長的狀況當然也影響各學生在各方面的表現所以正確的飲食跟健康觀念是跟著一個人一輩子的資產所以國家絕對有積極投資的必要"},{"start":39.309,"end":57.103,"text":"那所以在上一屆立委任期我們本席就有提出這個學校飲食法的草案這屆再提那不斷要求教育部要跟上腳步那我知道我們暢言那麼久教育部也準備那麼久終於有機會要端出演藝成果的時候"},{"start":57.944,"end":74.702,"text":"突然殺出個所謂的新版的才化法三毒從中央拿走了3700多億到地方那我們不知道說有哪些原本中央負責出錢辦理的事務那應該是跟著移轉到地方去辦理"},{"start":76.223,"end":89.094,"text":"讓許多的施政跟建設都處在一個不確定的狀況之下好那實際上教育部辦理營養午餐的業務每年本來就有固定的支出就誠如您剛剛的報告中央補助21億的午餐費那針對採用這個國產可售員食材中央是補助38億那針對偏鄉中學校的中央廚房的建置中央是補助15億"},{"start":102.705,"end":105.108,"text":"共計74億而且這是每年喔那原本由中央辦理的營養午餐的業務我們隨著這個新版的財化法上路那是否會移交到地方去那我們今天來談營養午餐專法那各委員的版本都有一些加碼的支出啦"},{"start":120.566,"end":125.311,"text":"那推估起來那應該也有26億那所以這個所謂的如果說這個營養午餐的專法如果真的通過之後那很可見的就是說整個的費用要有100億以上如果是中央來負責的話"},{"start":137.282,"end":150.189,"text":"那好那現在因為這個才化法出來了那所以中央跟地方要如何劃分這些我們都不知道所以未來分工不清楚的時候我要請教次長第一個是要叫我們把法案重新都撤回嗎那不然"},{"start":152.21,"end":153.451,"text":"我們今天談這個營養午餐的專法的所謂的加碼不是都空談嗎?"},{"start":173.032,"end":196.618,"text":"我想謝謝委員的關心其實事實上就是會遇到這樣子的一個難題就是說我們當然很希望每年這種74億的補助都能夠繼續然後這個修法的部分增加了26億中央也有財力來負擔我們一樣修法也買單那其實剛才署長跟我說其實不只是每年固定加碼的費用超過100億就是有關這個午餐專法"},{"start":199.099,"end":216.836,"text":"上路跟上路之前我們已經陸陸續續透過學校衛生法各種制度已經增加了74億每年的補助那如果說再增加26億最少那還有餐費餐費聽說還120億左右所以這個部分其實我們就是說在去年"},{"start":217.836,"end":241.049,"text":"各界的注意這關心下包括柴北部分黨派大家都希望趕快立專法所以我們也在去年大概有五次的這個座談諮詢然後在11月20做成佈板送院那一個月之後會遇到裁判法所以裁判法的衝擊那個政院方面要求我們做評估那在評估的過程裡面我們就發現說那這個中央午餐"},{"start":242.669,"end":253.795,"text":"這個營養午餐它的這個制度法地方制度法規範好像是地方的權責這是在很無奈的狀況下必須去檢討你說營養午餐是地方的國民中小學我想我剛才講的補助都是國民中小學居多那這部分我們怎麼樣子來跟地方政府再談恰談我們會盡快就是說這部分如果因為現在那個新版的裁判法已經上路那地方政府是不是願意就"},{"start":269.283,"end":275.465,"text":"這個過去已經補助的每年的74億做一些這個負擔然後這個新增的部分他們是願不願意負擔那假如都願意的話我們在這邊修這個法那個將來的權益義務可能也要一起來談那這樣子會比較能夠不去破壞到那個完整性"},{"start":287.609,"end":312.601,"text":"我們現在光是裁判法上路之後如果中央跟地方的權責不釐清將來負擔不釐清我們怎麼樣去保有孩子能夠至少這個74億不要動對於教育部國教署來講已經是一個非常頭痛的問題在裁判法上路之後那我們在心情上在修法大家講得很高興充滿理想熱情跟我以前當立委也一樣對不對"},{"start":313.741,"end":333.443,"text":"但是我們如何真的去增加這個經費然後這個經費是誰要來出這個不講清楚坦白講這個專法又會遇到新的問題過去的專法在很難整合就是說那個制度都不同有的地方是免費的有的地方是家長付費的有些部分是中央補助的"},{"start":334.304,"end":362.702,"text":"那在這種狀況下我們好不容易形成一個專法有一些共識了對可是這個現在很大的一個問題就是說那這個錢錢講起來很傷感情但是是最實際的我們中央地方怎麼樣的來來釐清這個權利跟意義我覺得這個恐怕我們必須要先去談了有一初步結果對於再進一步的把這個法請院方那邊來就是我們中央政府要好好的跟地方政府來談對 詳細我可以再請署長來補充好"},{"start":365.844,"end":380.667,"text":"就是在溝通的過程中在108以來有三個問題那有偏鄉的問題有人力的問題有餐費的問題那因為這個問題不好整合但是我們又不能等所以在109開始就先解決剛才講的三個問題的第一個問題先把偏鄉做處理"},{"start":384.748,"end":403.441,"text":"雖然沒有專法很難整合但是我們還是跨出去做了偏鄉的處理投資63億做了解決而後年度為了偏鄉每年15億加計剛才講的59億全部加起來每年從111年開始每年74億那新法修了之後不含餐費就要增加26億含餐費"},{"start":405.362,"end":432.418,"text":"要達到220億所以不含餐費的話100億含餐費要高達到220億這個得要好好跟地方政府一起來了解地方政府拿到了這些才化法的裁員之後有沒有能力跟他會怎麼規劃我們想要保障學生的權益所以制度上得要談清楚以上跟委員補充就是說如果這個談清楚之後那分配的比例也清楚了可能這個法這個院版的這個法才能成熟"},{"start":432.958,"end":461.162,"text":"譬如說我們要加碼對不對 營養師要加碼那加碼的錢是地方出還是中央出地方要補助多少像是植蜜啊 午餐植蜜啊 或是營養師啊 等等對不對所以家來對孩子好 我們都支持啦基本上方向都支持但是我們必須要為政策負責所以就必須要去講說這個問題怎麼解決那也請你們技術要談啦 好不好那另外 再來回到我們今天另外一個主題就是運動產業發展條例喔那本席剛提出版本"},{"start":461.482,"end":466.044,"text":"那當然這次主要是要修正26之2啦就是說有關於企業捐贈職業或業餘運動業或重點運動賽事免稅額的部分那現行的法規是2021我們修正的嘛那時候就是可以抵稅150%那當時本席也有參與修法"},{"start":479.668,"end":485.35,"text":"張亮 萬堅 當事委員也有一起那個時候其實我們是主張一開始我們是主張250%那因為我們先求有再求好的原則之下那財政部一直哀哀叫所以我們就用150%上路那過了三年了那現在時機成熟了嗎"},{"start":498.655,"end":513.611,"text":"那署長還是次長過了三年了就是說150%變成250%有沒有機會委員我想你知道我的心裡是期待的但是部會就是議題大家還在溝通那我們也希望"},{"start":514.591,"end":535.587,"text":"其實我們現在看到的數據每年底稅的大概額度三年了大概從11億左右去年好像11億前年10億那職業運動大概去年底的10億那當時協商的時候門檻是可以到30億那為什麼會沒有辦法用到那麼多可能有一些結構的因素那看法也不太一樣這個部分我必須承認"},{"start":536.368,"end":548.121,"text":"但是我們還是希望運動部上路之後為了優化運動產業的經營我們當然希望在租稅優惠方面能夠爭取到更大的一個額度那這部分我們就是財政部有代表來"},{"start":549.073,"end":572.095,"text":"我們是不是要請他們對啊因為體育署是說如果根據這個專戶的運作來看受證金額最多只到11億嘛那沒有達到上限30億所以稅水影響其實有限的啊那加上我們運動部再來要掛牌所以整體的運動產業要大爆發的時候所以這個時候如果不把"},{"start":573.537,"end":589.553,"text":"減免銀索稅的額度調到250%那增加這個動機讓更多企業投入運動產業那要更待何時所以這個時候是更加把握的時候對不對對 我想委員的關心有一定的這個一定會有一定的效果"},{"start":590.194,"end":613.132,"text":"好那所以我想這個再請大家努力啦那如果說讓我們如果說250%當然這是我們心目中的願想那如果財政部還是有很大很大的意見那您覺得有什麼折衷的方案嗎我想這個是列入我們院的這個優先法案所以這部分我們會再來研商"},{"start":613.752,"end":629.348,"text":"那因為委員的版本相當多朝野也都有一些不同黨派也有相同的提案所以這部分我們會持續來討論也會尊重委員的意見那我再請教一下因為之前體育署有說財政財政部要在3月14號開會討論這個議題那到底討論的狀況如何我們請財政部來說明"},{"start":640.297,"end":645.021,"text":"跟委員報告目前的現在的現行法是那個費用加成就是150嘛那150其實相當於說企業他捐贈100塊裡面有30是政府補助就政府補助的比例已經達三成其實這個是補助比例很高啦那因為企業捐贈的對象是企業他自己決定的"},{"start":661.516,"end":680.007,"text":"那政府已經配合企業他捐70塊政府已經出了30塊這個比例很高那是不是要再提高我們可以再跟這個教育部大家再一起再來可是他背後所創造的產值那是不是這樣子的來計算的好你說像我再簡單說一下像說我們因為改成150所以我們職棒變了6對這個我想知道市長最清楚"},{"start":685.891,"end":699.24,"text":"那多了台鋼雄鷹在六支隊伍之後那你看整個職棒蓬勃發展那特別是我們又拿到十二強的第一我想這個都是因為有六隊然後整個的效應所產生的所以不要簡單看這個"},{"start":701.321,"end":713.905,"text":"表面上的碎損這個背後創出了產值包括我們現在有大巨蛋也有我們台南的亞太棒球村那未來因為球場的這個規模變大然後大家球迷湧進那整個創造出來的產值包括我們亞太棒球村也有讓韓職來春訓那個整個產值大家來看韓星的啦"},{"start":723.308,"end":752.668,"text":"將來有試對 未來會有試對Okinawa 本來是日值 韓值的最佳春訓基地那他們的產值一年是上百億的那可是我們開始慢慢在經營這一塊我覺得我們未來有可能會超過Okinawa因為我們的條件都比他們更好所以我想 財政部要拜託您就是說不要看表面上的稅損或者說國家先補助多少我覺得那個背後所創造出來的產值的那個稅才是更驚人的啦"},{"start":754.208,"end":771.195,"text":"我們會跟財政部還有這個企業投資的這些企業團體來找個機會一起來溝通因為我們會盡快因為這個布板署這邊已經準備要提了那目前因為沒有共識所以我們就是用尊重立委提案的方式將來也會併審來討論OK 好 謝謝次長 謝謝署長 謝謝昭偉好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":553,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（11時6分）謝謝主席，有請張廖次長。"],["主席：有請次長備詢，謝謝。"],["張廖次長萬堅：召委好。"],["林委員宜瑾：次長好。吃得好，吃得健康，我想不只直接影響我們孩子成長的狀況，當然也影響學生在各方面的表現，正確的飲食跟健康觀念是跟著一個人一輩子的資產，所以國家絕對有積極投資的必要。在上一屆立委任期，本席就有提出學校飲食法的草案，這一屆再提，不斷要求教育部要跟上腳步，我知道我們倡議了那麼久，教育部也準備了那麼久，終於有機會要端出研議成果的時候，突然殺出個所謂新版的財劃法三讀，從中央拿走了三千七百多億到地方，我們不知道有哪些原本中央負責出錢辦理的事務是要跟著移轉到地方去辦理？讓許多的施政跟建設都處在一個不確定的狀況之下。","實際上，教育部辦理營養午餐的業務，每年本來就有固定的支出，誠如您剛剛的報告，中央補助21億的午餐費，針對採用國產可溯源食材，中央是補助38億；針對偏鄉學校中央廚房的建置，中央是補助15億，共計74億，而且這是每年。原本由中央辦理的營養午餐業務，隨著這個新版的財劃法上路，是否會移交到地方去？我們今天來談營養午餐專法，各委員的版本都有一些加碼的支出，推估起來應該有26億，所以如果營養午餐專法真的通過之後，可以預見的就是整個費用要有100億以上，如果是中央來負責的話。現在因為這個財劃法出來了，所以中央跟地方要如何劃分，這些我們都不知道，所以未來分工不清楚的時候，我第一個要請教次長的是，要叫我們把法案重新都撤回嗎？不然教育部應該就是要積極地跟地方政府溝通，溝通了沒？有時間溝通嗎？因為財劃法也剛通過，地方政府的態度是怎樣？如果我們還沒有跟地方政府好好地溝通聯繫，我們今天談這個所謂的營養午餐專法加碼，不是都空談嗎？次長，你怎麼解決？"],["張廖次長萬堅：謝謝召委的關心，事實上就是會遇到這樣子的一個難題，我們當然很希望每年這種74億的補助都能夠繼續，然後這個修法的部分增加了26億，中央也有財力來負擔，我們一樣修法，也買單。其實剛才署長跟我說，不只是每年固定加碼的費用超過100億，有關這個午餐專法上路跟上路之前，我們已經陸陸續續透過學校衛生法、各種制度已經增加了每年74億的補助，如果再增加26億，最少，那還有餐費，餐費聽說是120億左右。所以這個部分，其實我們去年在各界的注意、關心下，朝野不分黨派，大家都希望趕快立專法，所以我們在去年大概有5次的座談諮詢，然後在11月20日做成部版送院，但一個月之後又遇到財劃法的衝擊，政院方面要求我們做評估。"],["林委員宜瑾：是。"],["張廖次長萬堅：在評估的過程，我們發現營養午餐在地方制度法規範，好像是地方的權責，這是在很無奈的狀況下，必須去檢討。"],["林委員宜瑾：你說營養午餐是地方自治項目？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，地方的國民中小學，我剛才講的補助都是國民中小學居多啦！這部分我們怎麼樣跟地方政府洽談，我們會儘快，因為新版的財劃法已經上路，地方政府是不是願意就過去已經補助的、每年的74億做一些負擔，然後新增的部分，他們願不願意負擔，假如都願意的話，我們在修這個法時，將來的權利義務可能也要一起來談，這樣子比較能夠不去破壞到那個完整性。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，因為權利義務的比例，應該也會在法裡頭。"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們現在光是財劃法上路之後，如果中央跟地方的權責不釐清，將來負擔不釐清，我們怎麼樣去保有孩子……至少這個74億不要動，對於教育部國教署來講，已經是一個非常頭痛的問題，在財劃法上路之後。我們在心情上，修法大家講得很高興，充滿理想熱情，跟我以前當立委也一樣，對不對？但是我們如何真的去增加這個經費，然後經費是誰要來出，這個如果不講清楚，坦白講，這個專法又會遇到新的問題，過去的專法在於很難整合，制度都不同，有的地方是免費的，有的地方是家長付費的，有些部分是中央補助的。在這種狀況下，我們好不容易形成一個專法，有一些共識了，可是現在很大的一個問題就是這個錢，錢講起來很傷感情，但是最實際，我們中央、地方怎麼樣來釐清權利跟義務，我覺得這個恐怕我們必須要先去談，有一個初步的結果，再進一步的把這個法請院方來……"],["林委員宜瑾：就是我們中央政府要好好的跟地方政府來談。"],["張廖次長萬堅：詳細我可以再請署長補充。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，署長。"],["張廖次長萬堅：署長在第一線其實比較辛苦。"],["彭署長富源：就是在溝通的過程中，108以來有三個問題，有偏鄉的問題、有人力的問題、有餐費的問題，因為問題不好整合，但是我們又不能等，所以在109開始，就先解決剛才講的三個問題的第一個問題，先把偏鄉做處理。雖然沒有專法，很難整合，但是我們還是跨出去，做了偏鄉的處理，投資了63億做了解決，而後年度為了偏鄉每年15億，加計剛才講的59億，全部加起來，從111年開始，每年74億。新法修了之後，不含餐費就要增加26億，含餐費要達到220億，所以不含餐費的話100億，含餐費要高達到220億，這個得要好好跟地方政府一起來了解。地方政府拿到了這些財劃法的財源之後，有沒有能力？它會怎麼規劃？我們想要保障學生的權益，所以制度上得要談清楚，以上跟委員補充。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，如果這個談清楚之後，分配的比例也清楚了，可能院版的法才能成熟？"],["張廖次長萬堅：譬如說，我們營養師要加碼，加碼的錢是地方出還中央出？地方要補助多少？"],["林委員宜瑾：就像是午餐執秘或營養師等等，對不對？"],["張廖次長萬堅：所以加，對孩子好，我們都支持，基本上方向都支持，但是我們必須要為政策負責，所以就必須要去講問題怎麼解決。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，也請你們儘速談，好不好？OK，再回到我們今天另外一個主題運動產業發展條例，本席剛提出版本，當然這次主要是要修正第二十六條之二，就是有關於企業捐贈職業或業餘運動業或重點運動賽事免稅額的部分。現行法規是2021我們修正的嘛，那時候就是可抵稅150%，當時本席也有參與修法，而張廖萬堅委員也有一起，那個時候其實我們一開始是主張250%，因為我們先求有、再求好的原則之下，財政部一直哀哀叫，所以我們就用150%上路，過了三年了，現在時機成熟了嗎？署長還是次長，過了三年了，150%變成250%有沒有機會？"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員，我想你知道我的心裡是期待的，但是部會就是一體，大家還在溝通，其實我們現在看到的數據，三年了，每年抵稅的額度，大概從11億左右，去年好像11億，前年10億，而職業運動大概去年抵了10億。當時協商的時候，門檻是可以到30億，為什麼會沒有辦法用到那麼多，可能有一些結構的因素，看法也不太一樣，這個部分我必須承認，但是我們還是希望運動部上路之後，為了優化運動產業的經營，在租稅優惠方面能夠爭取到更大的一個額度。這部分財政部代表是不是有來？我們是不是要請他們說明？"],["林委員宜瑾：對啊！因為體育署是說，如果根據這個專戶的運作來看，受贈金額最多只到11億嘛，沒有達到上限30億，所以稅損影響其實是有限的啊！加上我們運動部再來要掛牌，所以正值運動產業要大爆發的時候，所以這個時候如果不把減免營所稅的額度調到250%，增加這個動機，讓更多企業投入運動產業，要更待何時？所以這個時候是要更加把握的時候，對不對？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，我想委員的關心會有一定的效果。"],["林委員宜瑾：所以我想再請大家努力啦！如果說250%，當然這是我們心目中的願想，如果財政部還是有很大很大的意見，那您覺得有什麼折衷的方案嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：這個是列入我們院的優先法案，所以這部分我們會再來研商，因為委員的版本相當多，朝野一些不同黨派也有相同的提案，所以這部分我們會持續來討論，也會尊重委員的意見。"],["林委員宜瑾：我再請教一下，因為之前體育署有說財政部要在3月14號開會討論這個議題，到底討論的狀況如何？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們請財政部來說明，好不好？"],["林委員宜瑾：好，OK，謝謝。"],["倪副署長麗心：跟委員報告，現行法是費用加成150嘛，相當於企業捐贈100塊裡面有30是政府補助，就是政府補助的比例已經達三成，其實補助比例是很高啦！因為企業捐贈的對象是企業自己決定的，政府已經配合企業，它捐70塊，政府已經出了30塊，這個比例很高，是不是要再提高，我們可以跟教育部大家再一起來討論。"],["林委員宜瑾：可是它背後所創造的產值不是這樣子來計算的，我再簡單說一下，像我們因為改成150，所以職棒變成6隊，這個我想張廖次長最清楚。多了臺鋼雄鷹，在6支隊伍之後，你看整個職棒蓬勃發展，特別我們又拿到12強的第一，我想這個都是因為有6隊整個效應所產生的，所以不要簡單看表面上的稅損，要看背後創出的產值，我們現在有大巨蛋，也有我們臺南的亞太棒球村，未來因為球場的規模變大、球迷湧進，整個創造出來的產值，包括我們亞太棒球村也有讓韓職來春訓，那整個產值，大家來看韓星的啦……"],["張廖次長萬堅：未來會有4隊。"],["林委員宜瑾：Okinawa本來是日職、韓職最佳的春訓基地，他們的產值一年是上百億的，可是我們開始慢慢在經營這一塊，我覺得未來有可能會超過Okinawa，因為我們的條件都比他們更好。所以我想拜託財政部，不要看表面上的稅損，或者說國家先補助多少，我覺得背後所創造出來的產值、那個稅才是更驚人的啦！"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們會跟財政部還有企業投資的這些企業團體，找個機會一起來溝通，我們會儘快，因為這個部版，署已經準備要提了，目前因為沒有共識，所以我們就是尊重立委提案的方式，將來也會併審來討論。"],["林委員宜瑾：OK，好，謝謝次長、謝謝署長、謝謝召委。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林宜瑾召委的質詢，官員請回座。","接著繼續進行質詢，請劉書彬委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-3","speakers":["葛如鈞","洪孟楷","王育敏","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","陳秀寳","葉元之","柯志恩","萬美玲","林沛祥","林宜瑾","劉書彬","郭昱晴","范雲","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張雅琳","吳沛憶","林倩綺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李彥秀","吳思瑤","李坤城","陳培瑜"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「學校供餐法草案」：(一) 審查委員范雲等16人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(二) 審\n查委員馬文君等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、 (三) 審查委員魯明哲等24人擬具「學校供餐\n法草案」案、(四) 審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(五) 審查委員洪孟楷等\n20 人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、 ( 六 ) 審查委員黃健豪等 20 人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、\n( 七) 審查委員楊瓊瓔等21 人擬具「學校供餐條例草案」案、 ( 八) 審查委員林倩綺等 21 人擬具\n「學校午餐及營養促進條例草案」案、 ( 九 ) 審查委員鍾佳濱等 17 人擬具「學校午餐法草案」\n案、(十) 審查委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育法草案」案、(十一) 審查委員張雅\n琳等17人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育法草案」案、(十二) 審查委員柯志恩等21人擬具「學校午\n餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、(十三) 審查委員陳培瑜等26人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育條例草\n案」案、(十四) 審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「高級中等以下學校及幼兒園午餐供餐法草案」案、\n(十五) 審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草案」案、(十六) 審查委員葉元之等\n20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草案」案、(十七) 審查委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「學校飲食法草\n案」案、(十八) 審查委員林宜瑾等33人擬具「學校飲食法草案」案、(十九) 審查委員劉建國等\n17人擬具「學校飲食教育法草案」案、(二十) 審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「學校營養飲食供餐\n法草案」案、(二十一) 審查委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「高級中等以下學校供餐及飲食教育條例草\n案」案、(二十二) 審查委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」\n案、(二十三) 審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案（僅進行詢答）；二、審\n查「運動產業發展條例」：(一) 審查委員柯志恩等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及\n第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(二) 審查委員張智倫等 18 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(三) 審查委員洪孟楷等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第\n二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(四) 審查委員王鴻薇等 19 人擬具「運動產業發展\n條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(五) 審查委員林倩綺等22人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例第四條條文修正草案」案、(六) 審查委員沈發惠等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二\n條條文修正草案」案、(七) 審查委員許宇甄等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二\n十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二條、第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」、(九)審查委員楊瓊瓔等27人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1142901_00003"}}}