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0.952}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 338.094, \"end\": 339.555, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 339.555, \"end\": 339.895, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 339.895, \"end\": 340.956, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 340.956, \"end\": 341.276, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 341.276, \"end\": 341.696, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 341.696, \"end\": 341.896, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 341.896, \"end\": 342.377, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 342.377, \"end\": 342.777, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 342.777, \"end\": 343.017, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 343.017, \"end\": 343.598, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 343.598, \"end\": 343.758, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 343.758, 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{\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 362.105, \"end\": 362.586, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 362.586, \"end\": 363.026, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 363.026, \"end\": 363.166, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 363.166, \"end\": 363.346, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 363.346, \"end\": 363.586, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 363.586, \"end\": 363.846, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 363.846, \"end\": 364.946, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 364.946, \"end\": 365.206, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 365.206, \"end\": 365.327, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 365.327, \"end\": 365.407, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 365.407, \"end\": 365.687, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 365.687, \"end\": 366.007, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 366.007, \"end\": 366.507, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 366.507, \"end\": 366.767, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 366.767, \"end\": 366.947, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 366.947, \"end\": 367.187, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 367.187, \"end\": 367.787, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 367.787, \"end\": 368.247, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 368.247, \"end\": 368.648, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 368.648, \"end\": 368.888, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 368.888, \"end\": 369.248, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"低\", \"start\": 369.248, \"end\": 369.988, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"階\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 369.988, \"end\": 370.288, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"封\", \"start\": 370.288, \"end\": 371.048, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"裝\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 371.048, \"end\": 371.449, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"耗\", \"start\": 371.449, \"end\": 371.729, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 371.729, \"end\": 371.929, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 371.929, \"end\": 372.109, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"石\", \"start\": 372.109, \"end\": 372.389, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 372.389, \"end\": 372.949, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 372.949, \"end\": 373.289, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 373.289, \"end\": 374.47, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"鋼\"}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 374.47, \"end\": 374.81, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 374.81, \"end\": 375.19, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"菲\", \"start\": 375.19, \"end\": 375.47, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 375.47, \"end\": 375.49, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"賓\"}]}, {\"start\": 375.97, \"end\": 391.42, \"text\": \"那這樣子的情況對於我們國家的勞工的就業衝擊以及經濟影響的成長的影響那你有什麼樣的評估報告委員我想參與這個呂宋經濟走廊這個命題應該是這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 375.97, \"end\": 376.65, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 376.65, \"end\": 376.791, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 376.791, \"end\": 377.071, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 377.071, \"end\": 377.431, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 377.431, \"end\": 379.192, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 379.192, \"end\": 380.213, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 380.213, \"end\": 380.473, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 380.473, \"end\": 381.073, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 381.073, \"end\": 381.394, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 381.394, \"end\": 381.934, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 381.934, \"end\": 383.175, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"衝\"}, {\"word\": \"擊\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 383.175, \"end\": 383.495, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 383.495, \"end\": 384.536, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 384.536, \"end\": 385.256, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 385.256, \"end\": 386.677, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 386.677, \"end\": 387.137, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 387.137, \"end\": 387.278, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 387.278, \"end\": 388.158, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 388.158, \"end\": 388.598, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 388.598, \"end\": 388.759, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 388.759, \"end\": 388.939, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 388.939, \"end\": 389.259, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 389.259, \"end\": 389.539, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 389.539, \"end\": 390.099, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 390.099, \"end\": 390.24, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 390.24, \"end\": 390.54, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 390.54, \"end\": 390.68, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 390.68, \"end\": 390.86, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"呂\"}, {\"word\": \"宋\", \"start\": 390.86, \"end\": 390.98, \"score\": 0.675}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"走\", \"start\": 390.98, \"end\": 391.18, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"廊\", \"start\": 391.18, \"end\": 391.34, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 391.34, \"end\": 391.4, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 391.4, \"end\": 391.42, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 395.723, \"end\": 411.85, \"text\": \"他們這個美國日本跟這個菲律賓之間的決議那我們能不能夠參與啊我想這個變數還蠻大的那我們只是說我們在這個過程裡面我們必須要考慮我們台灣的整體的這個發展\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 395.723, \"end\": 396.644, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 396.644, \"end\": 397.364, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 397.364, \"end\": 397.644, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 397.644, \"end\": 398.324, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 398.324, \"end\": 398.744, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"菲\", \"start\": 398.744, \"end\": 398.845, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 398.845, \"end\": 399.165, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"賓\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 399.165, \"end\": 399.505, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 399.505, \"end\": 400.445, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 400.445, \"end\": 401.206, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 401.206, \"end\": 402.046, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 402.046, \"end\": 402.186, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 402.186, \"end\": 402.286, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 402.286, \"end\": 402.966, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 402.966, \"end\": 403.467, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 403.467, \"end\": 403.567, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 403.567, \"end\": 404.787, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"蠻\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 404.787, \"end\": 405.047, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 405.047, \"end\": 405.528, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 405.528, \"end\": 405.708, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 405.708, \"end\": 406.008, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 406.008, \"end\": 406.148, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 406.148, \"end\": 407.168, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 407.168, \"end\": 407.428, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 407.428, \"end\": 408.289, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 408.289, \"end\": 408.689, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 408.689, \"end\": 409.209, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 409.209, \"end\": 409.549, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 715.803, \"end\": 715.943, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 715.943, \"end\": 716.224, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 716.224, \"end\": 716.625, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 716.625, \"end\": 716.765, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 716.765, \"end\": 716.826, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"述\", \"start\": 716.826, \"end\": 716.846, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,290 --> 00:00:09,531\n謝謝主席我想請郭部長請郭部長部長好我想要請問一下川普總統3月17號的時候他在社交媒體說他說要用beautifulandclean的煤來發電就是美麗又潔淨的那所以\n\n2\n00:00:34,355 --> 00:00:37,959\n市場都預期未來美國的煤會增產\n\n3\n00:00:41,345 --> 00:01:05,459\n我們也聽到了AIT的古麗妍處長說美國他們可以滿足台灣能源的需求無論是液化天然氣再生能源或核能那前三項就是古麗妍說的這三項都是比較符合目前我們台灣的能源未來的規劃\n\n4\n00:01:07,389 --> 00:01:30,966\n川普總統說的這個捷徑的煤那如果未來他會不會有可能要求我們增加採購報告委員這個我可不可以請台電董事長跟你回應那個報告委員那個我們的燃煤機組目前就是只有五部超超臨界燃煤機組\n\n5\n00:01:31,963 --> 00:01:56,520\n所以我們以目前來看台電的機組的配置燃煤量是一定有一個上限的而且根據大院的決議在審台電的預算的時候其實我的燃煤採購量也在逐年下降當中所以即便是川普總統要求我們目前都沒有辦法增加對煤的採購量對不對\n\n6\n00:02:01,142 --> 00:02:11,546\n這個短期內應該有困難我想請這個董事長再繼續報告委員我們現在在進行的整個減碳的基礎更新規劃\n\n7\n00:02:13,811 --> 00:02:36,671\n興達的機組已經陸陸續續要除役台中的機組我們現在接下來二期開始啟動以後也會陸續的只要機組上來它就會開始燃煤量都會開始逐步下降那至於我們現在就是新增就是最近幾年投資的新的機組超超臨界的燃煤機組雖然它的排放量\n\n8\n00:02:37,674 --> 00:02:55,920\n很低可是目前來看我們沒有新的燃煤機組的規劃所以我們整體的購煤的上限是會受到我們機組運轉數的影響要大幅增加的可能性是很小很小的那如果他要求呢\n\n9\n00:02:59,929 --> 00:03:17,093\n我認為這些事情我們必須要跟他理性的討論理性的討論我想就這個事實來跟他們請教所以我想要增加有困難我想美國他應該會有考慮我們的這個建議\n\n10\n00:03:20,576 --> 00:03:46,887\n因為你知道嘛4月2號所有國家的關稅號碼都要公佈嘛那這個時候是磋商的這個關鍵的期間啊那會不會在減少這個貿易逆差的時候那美國會要求我們就是加大除了就是說過去我們看到的核能天然氣還有再生能源等等那會不會多增加要求沒呢\n\n11\n00:03:49,293 --> 00:03:52,656\n這樣子的一個變數關係我們會列入考慮我們這個會提供給這個談判單位作為參考好\n\n12\n00:03:59,295 --> 00:04:22,481\n那還有我們知道其實除了剛才諸位委員所說的希望部長要了解到說民眾不希望漲電價即便是產業漲電價都有可能轉嫁到民生的用品上面那所以物價的上漲等等的因素\n\n13\n00:04:22,841 --> 00:04:37,498\n非常的重要除了剛才部長所重視的就是我們國家的電價比其他我們在製造業上面競爭國家的電價如果有就是說我們不比\n\n14\n00:04:37,878 --> 00:04:52,684\n就是不能夠超過他們以外我們必須要考慮到就是漲電量會對於民生所造成的影響所以你要把我們本院委員所有的意見充分的轉達給電價審議委員會可以嗎\n\n15\n00:04:54,685 --> 00:05:20,362\n是的委員這個部分我們一定會如實的提供給電價審議委員會參考好還有喔在你最新的報告裡面你也提到了在菲律賓種電然後不管是用就是電池船或者是電纜短期內啦當然電纜是不可行因為電纜沒有建制嘛那\n\n16\n00:05:20,922 --> 00:05:43,978\n我長期就是說用電動船就電池船來運送這個電力都是有難度的那甚至就是有可能是不會完成的那你又在去年的10月31號表示如果在美國跟日本協助下參與禮送的經濟走廊這個計畫那\n\n17\n00:05:48,841 --> 00:06:15,490\n是希望落實你境外關內的政策把低階的封裝高耗能的石化鋼鐵業移到菲律賓去那你就說了重電的可行性很難那是不是代表你想要推動的就是把低階的封裝高耗能的石化以及鋼鐵業移到菲律賓\n\n18\n00:06:15,970 --> 00:06:31,420\n那這樣子的情況對於我們國家的勞工的就業衝擊以及經濟影響的成長的影響那你有什麼樣的評估報告委員我想參與這個呂宋經濟走廊這個命題應該是這個\n\n19\n00:06:35,723 --> 00:06:51,850\n他們這個美國日本跟這個菲律賓之間的決議那我們能不能夠參與啊我想這個變數還蠻大的那我們只是說我們在這個過程裡面我們必須要考慮我們台灣的整體的這個發展\n\n20\n00:06:53,391 --> 00:07:20,639\n那因為台灣要擴增各方面的這個發展的時候我們當然提出一個建議去做說如果今天我們讓台灣的綠電業者可以到海外去增加他的市場這個台灣因為我想我們的地方有限然後我們能夠發展綠電的這個空間也有限所以我們到這個菲律賓去發展因為菲律賓的這個土地非常的大那我們在評估所以會寫出一個評估計畫書\n\n21\n00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:37,930\n那這個評估計畫書看起來在那個地方創綠電是可行的因為綠電應該都在兩三塊錢那我講過了就是說我買電跟我鼓勵國內的廠商去那邊創電這個是不同的這個計畫\n\n22\n00:07:41,212 --> 00:07:58,380\n如果今天我們的國內的業者發展這個綠電的業者他在海外有能夠擴張他的這個市場的時候他就可以提供綠電他在菲律賓提供他的綠電給我們在那個地方如果我們能夠做大型的這個工業區\n\n23\n00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:24,541\n也就是我在提倡的境外官內的這個工業區那麼這個是一個非常讓大家可以移動的生產移動的這個部分那這個部分裡面它可以得到最重要就是它需要有電有水那麼這個水電我們都可以幫助它獲得更高經濟效益更低成本的水跟電\n\n24\n00:08:25,472 --> 00:08:54,097\n那麼這樣子的話他會比這個他在中國大陸也好或者他在台灣或者在日本的這個廠商他可以移動到這個菲律賓去做基本上菲律賓的人力他們發展的非常的好菲律賓就我們在看呂宋島光是一個呂宋島大概台灣比台灣大概三倍大那大概有六千萬的人口所以這一部分他們要進到這個工業區服務相對於\n\n25\n00:08:55,057 --> 00:09:21,630\n相對於台灣的廠商來講是一個選擇的部分那當台灣的廠商要往世界各地去發展的時候我們可以提供一個讓他離家鄉最近的一個地區但是我剛才在講過最重要的還是水跟電各位都很清楚一直在指責菲律賓的電七塊八塊這麼高的價格我怎麼可能送回來對不起我是先創一塊或者兩塊錢的電\n\n26\n00:09:23,611 --> 00:09:37,702\n讓他們先供給菲律賓的這些我們的台商或者是日商或者是從中國大陸要移轉出來的這些台商讓他們先得到基礎建設的這些輔助\n\n27\n00:09:39,043 --> 00:10:00,435\n讓它更具有競爭力這個才是我們最大的目的第二個它如果剩下的發出來的電有剩下的話我們可以用兩種方式把它送回來一種透過電子船送回來第二個通過海嵐送回來海嵐這個2011年就在世界討論的一個海事工程\n\n28\n00:10:01,375 --> 00:10:15,145\n我們也看到了非常多歐洲的國家是透過海嵐在送電我們也看到最新的計畫從新加坡他願意從澳洲拉4800公里拉到新加坡也是透過海嵐\n\n29\n00:10:16,354 --> 00:10:40,681\n我們認為我們也透過很多的智庫分析也透過很多的這個單位來做這些評估評估報告都有所以我們呢做了這一份可行性分析認為它是可行的接著我們要做實地的驗證實地的驗證這是科學的方法實地的驗證在確認它是可行的以後我們才會建議國內的\n\n30\n00:10:43,114 --> 00:10:56,001\n綠電業者往那邊移動但是我們會跟這個當地政府來討論怎麼樣給我們一些好的這個優惠的這個措施所以對經濟部來講這麼大的一個計畫不是\n\n31\n00:11:01,745 --> 00:11:22,471\n這個這麼輕易就做決定我們都有做非常多的simulation只是有一些部分跟委員報告牽扯到國安的部分是我們在這裡不能夠詳細的報告好不要什麼事情最後都扯到國安我覺得說我們還是應該因為我們現在非常多的\n\n32\n00:11:23,611 --> 00:11:44,168\n這個所謂的假訊息非常多的認知作戰所以這點請委員能夠諒解我們確實沒有辦法據信明儀但是我們願意到你的辦公室去據信明儀的報告好好謝謝喔那也請你馬上就是能夠回去的時候轉達電業審議委員會就是我們電價審議委員會把所有我們本院委員對於電價不應該調漲這個問題\n\n33\n00:11:53,617 --> 00:11:56,846\n應該要如實的來陳述好不好是的我們會如實的陳述\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6290\t9531\t謝謝主席我想請郭部長請郭部長部長好我想要請問一下川普總統3月17號的時候他在社交媒體說他說要用beautiful and clean的煤來發電就是美麗又潔淨的那所以\n34355\t37959\t市場都預期未來美國的煤會增產\n41345\t65459\t我們也聽到了AIT的古麗妍處長說美國他們可以滿足台灣能源的需求無論是液化天然氣再生能源或核能那前三項就是古麗妍說的這三項都是比較符合目前我們台灣的能源未來的規劃\n67389\t90966\t川普總統說的這個捷徑的煤那如果未來他會不會有可能要求我們增加採購報告委員這個我可不可以請台電董事長跟你回應那個報告委員那個我們的燃煤機組目前就是只有五部超超臨界燃煤機組\n91963\t116520\t所以我們以目前來看台電的機組的配置燃煤量是一定有一個上限的而且根據大院的決議在審台電的預算的時候其實我的燃煤採購量也在逐年下降當中所以即便是川普總統要求我們目前都沒有辦法增加對煤的採購量對不對\n121142\t131546\t這個短期內應該有困難我想請這個董事長再繼續報告委員我們現在在進行的整個減碳的基礎更新規劃\n133811\t156671\t興達的機組已經陸陸續續要除役台中的機組我們現在接下來二期開始啟動以後也會陸續的只要機組上來它就會開始燃煤量都會開始逐步下降那至於我們現在就是新增就是最近幾年投資的新的機組超超臨界的燃煤機組雖然它的排放量\n157674\t175920\t很低可是目前來看我們沒有新的燃煤機組的規劃所以我們整體的購煤的上限是會受到我們機組運轉數的影響要大幅增加的可能性是很小很小的那如果他要求呢\n179929\t197093\t我認為這些事情我們必須要跟他理性的討論理性的討論我想就這個事實來跟他們請教所以我想要增加有困難我想美國他應該會有考慮我們的這個建議\n200576\t226887\t因為你知道嘛4月2號所有國家的關稅號碼都要公佈嘛那這個時候是磋商的這個關鍵的期間啊那會不會在減少這個貿易逆差的時候那美國會要求我們就是加大除了就是說過去我們看到的核能天然氣還有再生能源等等那會不會多增加要求沒呢\n229293\t232656\t這樣子的一個變數關係我們會列入考慮我們這個會提供給這個談判單位作為參考好\n239295\t262481\t那還有我們知道其實除了剛才諸位委員所說的希望部長要了解到說民眾不希望漲電價即便是產業漲電價都有可能轉嫁到民生的用品上面那所以物價的上漲等等的因素\n262841\t277498\t非常的重要除了剛才部長所重視的就是我們國家的電價比其他我們在製造業上面競爭國家的電價如果有就是說我們不比\n277878\t292684\t就是不能夠超過他們以外我們必須要考慮到就是漲電量會對於民生所造成的影響所以你要把我們本院委員所有的意見充分的轉達給電價審議委員會可以嗎\n294685\t320362\t是的委員這個部分我們一定會如實的提供給電價審議委員會參考好還有喔在你最新的報告裡面你也提到了在菲律賓種電然後不管是用就是電池船或者是電纜短期內啦當然電纜是不可行因為電纜沒有建制嘛那\n320922\t343978\t我長期就是說用電動船就電池船來運送這個電力都是有難度的那甚至就是有可能是不會完成的那你又在去年的10月31號表示如果在美國跟日本協助下參與禮送的經濟走廊這個計畫那\n348841\t375490\t是希望落實你境外關內的政策把低階的封裝高耗能的石化鋼鐵業移到菲律賓去那你就說了重電的可行性很難那是不是代表你想要推動的就是把低階的封裝高耗能的石化以及鋼鐵業移到菲律賓\n375970\t391420\t那這樣子的情況對於我們國家的勞工的就業衝擊以及經濟影響的成長的影響那你有什麼樣的評估報告委員我想參與這個呂宋經濟走廊這個命題應該是這個\n395723\t411850\t他們這個美國日本跟這個菲律賓之間的決議那我們能不能夠參與啊我想這個變數還蠻大的那我們只是說我們在這個過程裡面我們必須要考慮我們台灣的整體的這個發展\n413391\t440639\t那因為台灣要擴增各方面的這個發展的時候我們當然提出一個建議去做說如果今天我們讓台灣的綠電業者可以到海外去增加他的市場這個台灣因為我想我們的地方有限然後我們能夠發展綠電的這個空間也有限所以我們到這個菲律賓去發展因為菲律賓的這個土地非常的大那我們在評估所以會寫出一個評估計畫書\n443280\t457930\t那這個評估計畫書看起來在那個地方創綠電是可行的因為綠電應該都在兩三塊錢那我講過了就是說我買電跟我鼓勵國內的廠商去那邊創電這個是不同的這個計畫\n461212\t478380\t如果今天我們的國內的業者發展這個綠電的業者他在海外有能夠擴張他的這個市場的時候他就可以提供綠電他在菲律賓提供他的綠電給我們在那個地方如果我們能夠做大型的這個工業區\n479440\t504541\t也就是我在提倡的境外官內的這個工業區那麼這個是一個非常讓大家可以移動的生產移動的這個部分那這個部分裡面它可以得到最重要就是它需要有電有水那麼這個水電我們都可以幫助它獲得更高經濟效益更低成本的水跟電\n505472\t534097\t那麼這樣子的話他會比這個他在中國大陸也好或者他在台灣或者在日本的這個廠商他可以移動到這個菲律賓去做基本上菲律賓的人力他們發展的非常的好菲律賓就我們在看呂宋島光是一個呂宋島大概台灣比台灣大概三倍大那大概有六千萬的人口所以這一部分他們要進到這個工業區服務相對於\n535057\t561630\t相對於台灣的廠商來講是一個選擇的部分那當台灣的廠商要往世界各地去發展的時候我們可以提供一個讓他離家鄉最近的一個地區但是我剛才在講過最重要的還是水跟電各位都很清楚一直在指責菲律賓的電七塊八塊這麼高的價格我怎麼可能送回來對不起我是先創一塊或者兩塊錢的電\n563611\t577702\t讓他們先供給菲律賓的這些我們的台商或者是日商或者是從中國大陸要移轉出來的這些台商讓他們先得到基礎建設的這些輔助\n579043\t600435\t讓它更具有競爭力這個才是我們最大的目的第二個它如果剩下的發出來的電有剩下的話我們可以用兩種方式把它送回來一種透過電子船送回來第二個通過海嵐送回來海嵐這個2011年就在世界討論的一個海事工程\n601375\t615145\t我們也看到了非常多歐洲的國家是透過海嵐在送電我們也看到最新的計畫從新加坡他願意從澳洲拉4800公里拉到新加坡也是透過海嵐\n616354\t640681\t我們認為我們也透過很多的智庫分析也透過很多的這個單位來做這些評估評估報告都有所以我們呢做了這一份可行性分析認為它是可行的接著我們要做實地的驗證實地的驗證這是科學的方法實地的驗證在確認它是可行的以後我們才會建議國內的\n643114\t656001\t綠電業者往那邊移動但是我們會跟這個當地政府來討論怎麼樣給我們一些好的這個優惠的這個措施所以對經濟部來講這麼大的一個計畫不是\n661745\t682471\t這個這麼輕易就做決定我們都有做非常多的simulation只是有一些部分跟委員報告牽扯到國安的部分是我們在這裡不能夠詳細的報告好不要什麼事情最後都扯到國安我覺得說我們還是應該因為我們現在非常多的\n683611\t704168\t這個所謂的假訊息非常多的認知作戰所以這點請委員能夠諒解我們確實沒有辦法據信明儀但是我們願意到你的辦公室去據信明儀的報告好好謝謝喔那也請你馬上就是能夠回去的時候轉達電業審議委員會就是我們電價審議委員會把所有我們本院委員對於電價不應該調漲這個問題\n713617\t716846\t應該要如實的來陳述好不好是的 我們會如實的陳述\n","txt":"謝謝主席我想請郭部長請郭部長部長好我想要請問一下川普總統3月17號的時候他在社交媒體說他說要用beautiful and clean的煤來發電就是美麗又潔淨的那所以\n市場都預期未來美國的煤會增產\n我們也聽到了AIT的古麗妍處長說美國他們可以滿足台灣能源的需求無論是液化天然氣再生能源或核能那前三項就是古麗妍說的這三項都是比較符合目前我們台灣的能源未來的規劃\n川普總統說的這個捷徑的煤那如果未來他會不會有可能要求我們增加採購報告委員這個我可不可以請台電董事長跟你回應那個報告委員那個我們的燃煤機組目前就是只有五部超超臨界燃煤機組\n所以我們以目前來看台電的機組的配置燃煤量是一定有一個上限的而且根據大院的決議在審台電的預算的時候其實我的燃煤採購量也在逐年下降當中所以即便是川普總統要求我們目前都沒有辦法增加對煤的採購量對不對\n這個短期內應該有困難我想請這個董事長再繼續報告委員我們現在在進行的整個減碳的基礎更新規劃\n興達的機組已經陸陸續續要除役台中的機組我們現在接下來二期開始啟動以後也會陸續的只要機組上來它就會開始燃煤量都會開始逐步下降那至於我們現在就是新增就是最近幾年投資的新的機組超超臨界的燃煤機組雖然它的排放量\n很低可是目前來看我們沒有新的燃煤機組的規劃所以我們整體的購煤的上限是會受到我們機組運轉數的影響要大幅增加的可能性是很小很小的那如果他要求呢\n我認為這些事情我們必須要跟他理性的討論理性的討論我想就這個事實來跟他們請教所以我想要增加有困難我想美國他應該會有考慮我們的這個建議\n因為你知道嘛4月2號所有國家的關稅號碼都要公佈嘛那這個時候是磋商的這個關鍵的期間啊那會不會在減少這個貿易逆差的時候那美國會要求我們就是加大除了就是說過去我們看到的核能天然氣還有再生能源等等那會不會多增加要求沒呢\n這樣子的一個變數關係我們會列入考慮我們這個會提供給這個談判單位作為參考好\n那還有我們知道其實除了剛才諸位委員所說的希望部長要了解到說民眾不希望漲電價即便是產業漲電價都有可能轉嫁到民生的用品上面那所以物價的上漲等等的因素\n非常的重要除了剛才部長所重視的就是我們國家的電價比其他我們在製造業上面競爭國家的電價如果有就是說我們不比\n就是不能夠超過他們以外我們必須要考慮到就是漲電量會對於民生所造成的影響所以你要把我們本院委員所有的意見充分的轉達給電價審議委員會可以嗎\n是的委員這個部分我們一定會如實的提供給電價審議委員會參考好還有喔在你最新的報告裡面你也提到了在菲律賓種電然後不管是用就是電池船或者是電纜短期內啦當然電纜是不可行因為電纜沒有建制嘛那\n我長期就是說用電動船就電池船來運送這個電力都是有難度的那甚至就是有可能是不會完成的那你又在去年的10月31號表示如果在美國跟日本協助下參與禮送的經濟走廊這個計畫那\n是希望落實你境外關內的政策把低階的封裝高耗能的石化鋼鐵業移到菲律賓去那你就說了重電的可行性很難那是不是代表你想要推動的就是把低階的封裝高耗能的石化以及鋼鐵業移到菲律賓\n那這樣子的情況對於我們國家的勞工的就業衝擊以及經濟影響的成長的影響那你有什麼樣的評估報告委員我想參與這個呂宋經濟走廊這個命題應該是這個\n他們這個美國日本跟這個菲律賓之間的決議那我們能不能夠參與啊我想這個變數還蠻大的那我們只是說我們在這個過程裡面我們必須要考慮我們台灣的整體的這個發展\n那因為台灣要擴增各方面的這個發展的時候我們當然提出一個建議去做說如果今天我們讓台灣的綠電業者可以到海外去增加他的市場這個台灣因為我想我們的地方有限然後我們能夠發展綠電的這個空間也有限所以我們到這個菲律賓去發展因為菲律賓的這個土地非常的大那我們在評估所以會寫出一個評估計畫書\n那這個評估計畫書看起來在那個地方創綠電是可行的因為綠電應該都在兩三塊錢那我講過了就是說我買電跟我鼓勵國內的廠商去那邊創電這個是不同的這個計畫\n如果今天我們的國內的業者發展這個綠電的業者他在海外有能夠擴張他的這個市場的時候他就可以提供綠電他在菲律賓提供他的綠電給我們在那個地方如果我們能夠做大型的這個工業區\n也就是我在提倡的境外官內的這個工業區那麼這個是一個非常讓大家可以移動的生產移動的這個部分那這個部分裡面它可以得到最重要就是它需要有電有水那麼這個水電我們都可以幫助它獲得更高經濟效益更低成本的水跟電\n那麼這樣子的話他會比這個他在中國大陸也好或者他在台灣或者在日本的這個廠商他可以移動到這個菲律賓去做基本上菲律賓的人力他們發展的非常的好菲律賓就我們在看呂宋島光是一個呂宋島大概台灣比台灣大概三倍大那大概有六千萬的人口所以這一部分他們要進到這個工業區服務相對於\n相對於台灣的廠商來講是一個選擇的部分那當台灣的廠商要往世界各地去發展的時候我們可以提供一個讓他離家鄉最近的一個地區但是我剛才在講過最重要的還是水跟電各位都很清楚一直在指責菲律賓的電七塊八塊這麼高的價格我怎麼可能送回來對不起我是先創一塊或者兩塊錢的電\n讓他們先供給菲律賓的這些我們的台商或者是日商或者是從中國大陸要移轉出來的這些台商讓他們先得到基礎建設的這些輔助\n讓它更具有競爭力這個才是我們最大的目的第二個它如果剩下的發出來的電有剩下的話我們可以用兩種方式把它送回來一種透過電子船送回來第二個通過海嵐送回來海嵐這個2011年就在世界討論的一個海事工程\n我們也看到了非常多歐洲的國家是透過海嵐在送電我們也看到最新的計畫從新加坡他願意從澳洲拉4800公里拉到新加坡也是透過海嵐\n我們認為我們也透過很多的智庫分析也透過很多的這個單位來做這些評估評估報告都有所以我們呢做了這一份可行性分析認為它是可行的接著我們要做實地的驗證實地的驗證這是科學的方法實地的驗證在確認它是可行的以後我們才會建議國內的\n綠電業者往那邊移動但是我們會跟這個當地政府來討論怎麼樣給我們一些好的這個優惠的這個措施所以對經濟部來講這麼大的一個計畫不是\n這個這麼輕易就做決定我們都有做非常多的simulation只是有一些部分跟委員報告牽扯到國安的部分是我們在這裡不能夠詳細的報告好不要什麼事情最後都扯到國安我覺得說我們還是應該因為我們現在非常多的\n這個所謂的假訊息非常多的認知作戰所以這點請委員能夠諒解我們確實沒有辦法據信明儀但是我們願意到你的辦公室去據信明儀的報告好好謝謝喔那也請你馬上就是能夠回去的時候轉達電業審議委員會就是我們電價審議委員會把所有我們本院委員對於電價不應該調漲這個問題\n應該要如實的來陳述好不好是的 我們會如實的陳述\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.290 --> 00:09.531\n謝謝主席我想請郭部長請郭部長部長好我想要請問一下川普總統3月17號的時候他在社交媒體說他說要用beautifulandclean的煤來發電就是美麗又潔淨的那所以\n\n00:34.355 --> 00:37.959\n市場都預期未來美國的煤會增產\n\n00:41.345 --> 01:05.459\n我們也聽到了AIT的古麗妍處長說美國他們可以滿足台灣能源的需求無論是液化天然氣再生能源或核能那前三項就是古麗妍說的這三項都是比較符合目前我們台灣的能源未來的規劃\n\n01:07.389 --> 01:30.966\n川普總統說的這個捷徑的煤那如果未來他會不會有可能要求我們增加採購報告委員這個我可不可以請台電董事長跟你回應那個報告委員那個我們的燃煤機組目前就是只有五部超超臨界燃煤機組\n\n01:31.963 --> 01:56.520\n所以我們以目前來看台電的機組的配置燃煤量是一定有一個上限的而且根據大院的決議在審台電的預算的時候其實我的燃煤採購量也在逐年下降當中所以即便是川普總統要求我們目前都沒有辦法增加對煤的採購量對不對\n\n02:01.142 --> 02:11.546\n這個短期內應該有困難我想請這個董事長再繼續報告委員我們現在在進行的整個減碳的基礎更新規劃\n\n02:13.811 --> 02:36.671\n興達的機組已經陸陸續續要除役台中的機組我們現在接下來二期開始啟動以後也會陸續的只要機組上來它就會開始燃煤量都會開始逐步下降那至於我們現在就是新增就是最近幾年投資的新的機組超超臨界的燃煤機組雖然它的排放量\n\n02:37.674 --> 02:55.920\n很低可是目前來看我們沒有新的燃煤機組的規劃所以我們整體的購煤的上限是會受到我們機組運轉數的影響要大幅增加的可能性是很小很小的那如果他要求呢\n\n02:59.929 --> 03:17.093\n我認為這些事情我們必須要跟他理性的討論理性的討論我想就這個事實來跟他們請教所以我想要增加有困難我想美國他應該會有考慮我們的這個建議\n\n03:20.576 --> 03:46.887\n因為你知道嘛4月2號所有國家的關稅號碼都要公佈嘛那這個時候是磋商的這個關鍵的期間啊那會不會在減少這個貿易逆差的時候那美國會要求我們就是加大除了就是說過去我們看到的核能天然氣還有再生能源等等那會不會多增加要求沒呢\n\n03:49.293 --> 03:52.656\n這樣子的一個變數關係我們會列入考慮我們這個會提供給這個談判單位作為參考好\n\n03:59.295 --> 04:22.481\n那還有我們知道其實除了剛才諸位委員所說的希望部長要了解到說民眾不希望漲電價即便是產業漲電價都有可能轉嫁到民生的用品上面那所以物價的上漲等等的因素\n\n04:22.841 --> 04:37.498\n非常的重要除了剛才部長所重視的就是我們國家的電價比其他我們在製造業上面競爭國家的電價如果有就是說我們不比\n\n04:37.878 --> 04:52.684\n就是不能夠超過他們以外我們必須要考慮到就是漲電量會對於民生所造成的影響所以你要把我們本院委員所有的意見充分的轉達給電價審議委員會可以嗎\n\n04:54.685 --> 05:20.362\n是的委員這個部分我們一定會如實的提供給電價審議委員會參考好還有喔在你最新的報告裡面你也提到了在菲律賓種電然後不管是用就是電池船或者是電纜短期內啦當然電纜是不可行因為電纜沒有建制嘛那\n\n05:20.922 --> 05:43.978\n我長期就是說用電動船就電池船來運送這個電力都是有難度的那甚至就是有可能是不會完成的那你又在去年的10月31號表示如果在美國跟日本協助下參與禮送的經濟走廊這個計畫那\n\n05:48.841 --> 06:15.490\n是希望落實你境外關內的政策把低階的封裝高耗能的石化鋼鐵業移到菲律賓去那你就說了重電的可行性很難那是不是代表你想要推動的就是把低階的封裝高耗能的石化以及鋼鐵業移到菲律賓\n\n06:15.970 --> 06:31.420\n那這樣子的情況對於我們國家的勞工的就業衝擊以及經濟影響的成長的影響那你有什麼樣的評估報告委員我想參與這個呂宋經濟走廊這個命題應該是這個\n\n06:35.723 --> 06:51.850\n他們這個美國日本跟這個菲律賓之間的決議那我們能不能夠參與啊我想這個變數還蠻大的那我們只是說我們在這個過程裡面我們必須要考慮我們台灣的整體的這個發展\n\n06:53.391 --> 07:20.639\n那因為台灣要擴增各方面的這個發展的時候我們當然提出一個建議去做說如果今天我們讓台灣的綠電業者可以到海外去增加他的市場這個台灣因為我想我們的地方有限然後我們能夠發展綠電的這個空間也有限所以我們到這個菲律賓去發展因為菲律賓的這個土地非常的大那我們在評估所以會寫出一個評估計畫書\n\n07:23.280 --> 07:37.930\n那這個評估計畫書看起來在那個地方創綠電是可行的因為綠電應該都在兩三塊錢那我講過了就是說我買電跟我鼓勵國內的廠商去那邊創電這個是不同的這個計畫\n\n07:41.212 --> 07:58.380\n如果今天我們的國內的業者發展這個綠電的業者他在海外有能夠擴張他的這個市場的時候他就可以提供綠電他在菲律賓提供他的綠電給我們在那個地方如果我們能夠做大型的這個工業區\n\n07:59.440 --> 08:24.541\n也就是我在提倡的境外官內的這個工業區那麼這個是一個非常讓大家可以移動的生產移動的這個部分那這個部分裡面它可以得到最重要就是它需要有電有水那麼這個水電我們都可以幫助它獲得更高經濟效益更低成本的水跟電\n\n08:25.472 --> 08:54.097\n那麼這樣子的話他會比這個他在中國大陸也好或者他在台灣或者在日本的這個廠商他可以移動到這個菲律賓去做基本上菲律賓的人力他們發展的非常的好菲律賓就我們在看呂宋島光是一個呂宋島大概台灣比台灣大概三倍大那大概有六千萬的人口所以這一部分他們要進到這個工業區服務相對於\n\n08:55.057 --> 09:21.630\n相對於台灣的廠商來講是一個選擇的部分那當台灣的廠商要往世界各地去發展的時候我們可以提供一個讓他離家鄉最近的一個地區但是我剛才在講過最重要的還是水跟電各位都很清楚一直在指責菲律賓的電七塊八塊這麼高的價格我怎麼可能送回來對不起我是先創一塊或者兩塊錢的電\n\n09:23.611 --> 09:37.702\n讓他們先供給菲律賓的這些我們的台商或者是日商或者是從中國大陸要移轉出來的這些台商讓他們先得到基礎建設的這些輔助\n\n09:39.043 --> 10:00.435\n讓它更具有競爭力這個才是我們最大的目的第二個它如果剩下的發出來的電有剩下的話我們可以用兩種方式把它送回來一種透過電子船送回來第二個通過海嵐送回來海嵐這個2011年就在世界討論的一個海事工程\n\n10:01.375 --> 10:15.145\n我們也看到了非常多歐洲的國家是透過海嵐在送電我們也看到最新的計畫從新加坡他願意從澳洲拉4800公里拉到新加坡也是透過海嵐\n\n10:16.354 --> 10:40.681\n我們認為我們也透過很多的智庫分析也透過很多的這個單位來做這些評估評估報告都有所以我們呢做了這一份可行性分析認為它是可行的接著我們要做實地的驗證實地的驗證這是科學的方法實地的驗證在確認它是可行的以後我們才會建議國內的\n\n10:43.114 --> 10:56.001\n綠電業者往那邊移動但是我們會跟這個當地政府來討論怎麼樣給我們一些好的這個優惠的這個措施所以對經濟部來講這麼大的一個計畫不是\n\n11:01.745 --> 11:22.471\n這個這麼輕易就做決定我們都有做非常多的simulation只是有一些部分跟委員報告牽扯到國安的部分是我們在這裡不能夠詳細的報告好不要什麼事情最後都扯到國安我覺得說我們還是應該因為我們現在非常多的\n\n11:23.611 --> 11:44.168\n這個所謂的假訊息非常多的認知作戰所以這點請委員能夠諒解我們確實沒有辦法據信明儀但是我們願意到你的辦公室去據信明儀的報告好好謝謝喔那也請你馬上就是能夠回去的時候轉達電業審議委員會就是我們電價審議委員會把所有我們本院委員對於電價不應該調漲這個問題\n\n11:53.617 --> 11:56.846\n應該要如實的來陳述好不好是的我們會如實的陳述\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.29,"end":9.531,"text":"謝謝主席我想請郭部長請郭部長部長好我想要請問一下川普總統3月17號的時候他在社交媒體說他說要用beautiful and clean的煤來發電就是美麗又潔淨的那所以"},{"start":34.355,"end":37.959,"text":"市場都預期未來美國的煤會增產"},{"start":41.345,"end":65.459,"text":"我們也聽到了AIT的古麗妍處長說美國他們可以滿足台灣能源的需求無論是液化天然氣再生能源或核能那前三項就是古麗妍說的這三項都是比較符合目前我們台灣的能源未來的規劃"},{"start":67.389,"end":90.966,"text":"川普總統說的這個捷徑的煤那如果未來他會不會有可能要求我們增加採購報告委員這個我可不可以請台電董事長跟你回應那個報告委員那個我們的燃煤機組目前就是只有五部超超臨界燃煤機組"},{"start":91.963,"end":116.52,"text":"所以我們以目前來看台電的機組的配置燃煤量是一定有一個上限的而且根據大院的決議在審台電的預算的時候其實我的燃煤採購量也在逐年下降當中所以即便是川普總統要求我們目前都沒有辦法增加對煤的採購量對不對"},{"start":121.142,"end":131.546,"text":"這個短期內應該有困難我想請這個董事長再繼續報告委員我們現在在進行的整個減碳的基礎更新規劃"},{"start":133.811,"end":156.671,"text":"興達的機組已經陸陸續續要除役台中的機組我們現在接下來二期開始啟動以後也會陸續的只要機組上來它就會開始燃煤量都會開始逐步下降那至於我們現在就是新增就是最近幾年投資的新的機組超超臨界的燃煤機組雖然它的排放量"},{"start":157.674,"end":175.92,"text":"很低可是目前來看我們沒有新的燃煤機組的規劃所以我們整體的購煤的上限是會受到我們機組運轉數的影響要大幅增加的可能性是很小很小的那如果他要求呢"},{"start":179.929,"end":197.093,"text":"我認為這些事情我們必須要跟他理性的討論理性的討論我想就這個事實來跟他們請教所以我想要增加有困難我想美國他應該會有考慮我們的這個建議"},{"start":200.576,"end":226.887,"text":"因為你知道嘛4月2號所有國家的關稅號碼都要公佈嘛那這個時候是磋商的這個關鍵的期間啊那會不會在減少這個貿易逆差的時候那美國會要求我們就是加大除了就是說過去我們看到的核能天然氣還有再生能源等等那會不會多增加要求沒呢"},{"start":229.293,"end":232.656,"text":"這樣子的一個變數關係我們會列入考慮我們這個會提供給這個談判單位作為參考好"},{"start":239.295,"end":262.481,"text":"那還有我們知道其實除了剛才諸位委員所說的希望部長要了解到說民眾不希望漲電價即便是產業漲電價都有可能轉嫁到民生的用品上面那所以物價的上漲等等的因素"},{"start":262.841,"end":277.498,"text":"非常的重要除了剛才部長所重視的就是我們國家的電價比其他我們在製造業上面競爭國家的電價如果有就是說我們不比"},{"start":277.878,"end":292.684,"text":"就是不能夠超過他們以外我們必須要考慮到就是漲電量會對於民生所造成的影響所以你要把我們本院委員所有的意見充分的轉達給電價審議委員會可以嗎"},{"start":294.685,"end":320.362,"text":"是的委員這個部分我們一定會如實的提供給電價審議委員會參考好還有喔在你最新的報告裡面你也提到了在菲律賓種電然後不管是用就是電池船或者是電纜短期內啦當然電纜是不可行因為電纜沒有建制嘛那"},{"start":320.922,"end":343.978,"text":"我長期就是說用電動船就電池船來運送這個電力都是有難度的那甚至就是有可能是不會完成的那你又在去年的10月31號表示如果在美國跟日本協助下參與禮送的經濟走廊這個計畫那"},{"start":348.841,"end":375.49,"text":"是希望落實你境外關內的政策把低階的封裝高耗能的石化鋼鐵業移到菲律賓去那你就說了重電的可行性很難那是不是代表你想要推動的就是把低階的封裝高耗能的石化以及鋼鐵業移到菲律賓"},{"start":375.97,"end":391.42,"text":"那這樣子的情況對於我們國家的勞工的就業衝擊以及經濟影響的成長的影響那你有什麼樣的評估報告委員我想參與這個呂宋經濟走廊這個命題應該是這個"},{"start":395.723,"end":411.85,"text":"他們這個美國日本跟這個菲律賓之間的決議那我們能不能夠參與啊我想這個變數還蠻大的那我們只是說我們在這個過程裡面我們必須要考慮我們台灣的整體的這個發展"},{"start":413.391,"end":440.639,"text":"那因為台灣要擴增各方面的這個發展的時候我們當然提出一個建議去做說如果今天我們讓台灣的綠電業者可以到海外去增加他的市場這個台灣因為我想我們的地方有限然後我們能夠發展綠電的這個空間也有限所以我們到這個菲律賓去發展因為菲律賓的這個土地非常的大那我們在評估所以會寫出一個評估計畫書"},{"start":443.28,"end":457.93,"text":"那這個評估計畫書看起來在那個地方創綠電是可行的因為綠電應該都在兩三塊錢那我講過了就是說我買電跟我鼓勵國內的廠商去那邊創電這個是不同的這個計畫"},{"start":461.212,"end":478.38,"text":"如果今天我們的國內的業者發展這個綠電的業者他在海外有能夠擴張他的這個市場的時候他就可以提供綠電他在菲律賓提供他的綠電給我們在那個地方如果我們能夠做大型的這個工業區"},{"start":479.44,"end":504.541,"text":"也就是我在提倡的境外官內的這個工業區那麼這個是一個非常讓大家可以移動的生產移動的這個部分那這個部分裡面它可以得到最重要就是它需要有電有水那麼這個水電我們都可以幫助它獲得更高經濟效益更低成本的水跟電"},{"start":505.472,"end":534.097,"text":"那麼這樣子的話他會比這個他在中國大陸也好或者他在台灣或者在日本的這個廠商他可以移動到這個菲律賓去做基本上菲律賓的人力他們發展的非常的好菲律賓就我們在看呂宋島光是一個呂宋島大概台灣比台灣大概三倍大那大概有六千萬的人口所以這一部分他們要進到這個工業區服務相對於"},{"start":535.057,"end":561.63,"text":"相對於台灣的廠商來講是一個選擇的部分那當台灣的廠商要往世界各地去發展的時候我們可以提供一個讓他離家鄉最近的一個地區但是我剛才在講過最重要的還是水跟電各位都很清楚一直在指責菲律賓的電七塊八塊這麼高的價格我怎麼可能送回來對不起我是先創一塊或者兩塊錢的電"},{"start":563.611,"end":577.702,"text":"讓他們先供給菲律賓的這些我們的台商或者是日商或者是從中國大陸要移轉出來的這些台商讓他們先得到基礎建設的這些輔助"},{"start":579.043,"end":600.435,"text":"讓它更具有競爭力這個才是我們最大的目的第二個它如果剩下的發出來的電有剩下的話我們可以用兩種方式把它送回來一種透過電子船送回來第二個通過海嵐送回來海嵐這個2011年就在世界討論的一個海事工程"},{"start":601.375,"end":615.145,"text":"我們也看到了非常多歐洲的國家是透過海嵐在送電我們也看到最新的計畫從新加坡他願意從澳洲拉4800公里拉到新加坡也是透過海嵐"},{"start":616.354,"end":640.681,"text":"我們認為我們也透過很多的智庫分析也透過很多的這個單位來做這些評估評估報告都有所以我們呢做了這一份可行性分析認為它是可行的接著我們要做實地的驗證實地的驗證這是科學的方法實地的驗證在確認它是可行的以後我們才會建議國內的"},{"start":643.114,"end":656.001,"text":"綠電業者往那邊移動但是我們會跟這個當地政府來討論怎麼樣給我們一些好的這個優惠的這個措施所以對經濟部來講這麼大的一個計畫不是"},{"start":661.745,"end":682.471,"text":"這個這麼輕易就做決定我們都有做非常多的simulation只是有一些部分跟委員報告牽扯到國安的部分是我們在這裡不能夠詳細的報告好不要什麼事情最後都扯到國安我覺得說我們還是應該因為我們現在非常多的"},{"start":683.611,"end":704.168,"text":"這個所謂的假訊息非常多的認知作戰所以這點請委員能夠諒解我們確實沒有辦法據信明儀但是我們願意到你的辦公室去據信明儀的報告好好謝謝喔那也請你馬上就是能夠回去的時候轉達電業審議委員會就是我們電價審議委員會把所有我們本院委員對於電價不應該調漲這個問題"},{"start":713.617,"end":716.846,"text":"應該要如實的來陳述好不好是的 我們會如實的陳述"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":647,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時22分）謝謝主席，我想要請郭部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：部長好。我想要請問一下，川普總統3月17號的時候在社交媒體上提到要用「BEAUTIFUL,CLEAN COAL」來發電，就是美麗又潔淨的煤，所以市場都預期未來美國的煤會增產。我們也聽到了AIT的谷立言處長說，美國可以滿足臺灣的能源需求，無論是液化天然氣、再生能源或核能，谷立言說的這三項都是比較符合目前我們臺灣能源未來的規劃。部長，川普總統說的潔淨的煤，未來他會不會有可能要求我們增加採購？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，這個我可不可以請台電董事長跟你回應？"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，請說。"],["曾董事長文生：報告委員，我們的燃煤機組目前就是只有五部超超臨界燃煤機組，所以我們以目前台電機組的配置來看，燃煤量一定是有一個上限的，而且根據大院的決議，在審台電預算的時候，其實我們的燃煤採購量也在逐年下降當中。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以即便是川普總統要求，我們目前都沒有辦法增加對美國煤的採購量，對不對？"],["曾董事長文生：短期內有困難。"],["郭部長智輝：這個短期內應該有困難，我請董事長再繼續報告。"],["曾董事長文生：報告委員，我們現在在進行的整個減碳的機組更新規劃，興達的機組已經陸陸續續要除役；臺中的機組，我們接下來二期開始啟動以後，只要機組上來，它的燃煤量也都會開始逐步下降。至於我們現在的新增投資，就是最近幾年投資的新的機組，超超臨界的燃煤機組，雖然它的排放量很低，可是目前來看，我們沒有新的燃煤機組的規劃，所以我們整體購煤的上限是會受到我們機組運轉數的影響，要大幅增加的可能性是很小很小的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那如果他要求呢？"],["曾董事長文生：這是做不到的事啊。"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果他要求呢？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，如果……"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為4月2號關稅……"],["郭部長智輝：我認為這些事情，我們必須要跟他理性的討論，就這個事實來跟他們請教，因為我們要增加有困難，我想美國應該會考慮我們的建議。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，因為你知道4月2號所有國家的關稅號碼都要公布，這個時候是磋商的關鍵期間，會不會在減少貿易逆差的時候，美國會要求我們加大？除了過去我們看到的核能、天然氣，還有再生能源等等，會不會多增加要求煤的部分呢？"],["郭部長智輝：這樣子的一個變數關係，我們會列入考慮，我們會提供給談判單位做為參考。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。還有，我們知道，除了剛才諸位委員所說的，希望部長要了解到民眾不希望漲電價，即便是產業漲了電價，都有可能轉嫁到民生用品上面，所以物價上漲等等的因素非常的重要，除了剛才部長所重視的，就是我們國家的電價與其他在製造業上面跟我們有競爭的國家的電價相比，除了我們不能夠超過他們以外，我們還必須要考慮到漲電價對於民生所造成的影響，所以你要把我們本院委員所有的意見充分的轉達給電價審議委員會，可以嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是的，委員，這個部分我們一定會如實的提供給電價審議委員會參考。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。還有，在你最新的報告裡面也提到了在菲律賓種電，然後不管是用電池船或者是電纜輸送，短期內當然電纜是不可行，因為電纜沒有建置嘛，但長期來看，用電池船來運送電力都是有難度的，甚至有可能是不會完成的。你又在去年的10月31號表示，期盼在美國跟日本協助下參與「呂宋經濟走廊」計畫，希望落實你境外關內的政策，把低階的封裝、高耗能的石化鋼鐵業移到菲律賓去，你就說了，種電的可行性很難，那是不是代表你想要推動的就是把低階的封裝、高耗能的石化以及鋼鐵業移到菲律賓？這樣對於我們國家勞工的就業衝擊以及經濟成長的影響，你有什麼樣的評估？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想參與「呂宋經濟走廊」這個命題，應該是美國、日本跟菲律賓之間的決議，我們能不能夠參與，我想這個變數還滿大的。我們只是說，在這個過程裡面，我們必須要考慮臺灣的整體發展，因為臺灣要擴增各方面發展的時候，我們當然就是提出一個建議去做，如果今天我們讓臺灣的綠電業者可以到海外去增加它的市場，因為我們臺灣的地方有限，然後我們能夠發展綠電的空間也有限，所以我們到菲律賓去發展，因為菲律賓的土地非常的大，我們有在評估，所以會寫出一個評估計畫書，從這個評估計畫書看起來，在那個地方創綠電是可行的，因為綠電應該都在每度二、三塊錢。我講過了，我買電跟我鼓勵國內的廠商去那邊創電是不同的計畫，如果今天我們國內發展綠電的業者，在海外也能夠擴張他的市場的時候，他就可以提供綠電，可以在菲律賓提供他的綠電給我們在那個地方的工業區，如果我們能夠做大型的工業區，也就是我在提倡的境外關內的工業區，這是讓大家的生產可以移動的部分。在這個部分，他可以得到最重要的，就是他需要有電、有水，也就是我們可以幫助他獲得更高的經濟效益、更低成本的水跟電，這樣子的話，在中國大陸的也好，或者在臺灣、在日本的這些廠商可以移動到菲律賓去做，基本上，菲律賓的人力，他們發展得非常好，就我們在看菲律賓呂宋島，光是一個呂宋島比臺灣大概是三倍大，大概有6,000萬的人口，以這部分來說，他們要進到工業區服務，相對於臺灣的廠商來講，是一個選擇的部分，當臺灣的廠商要往世界各地去發展的時候，我們可以提供一個讓他離家鄉最近的地區，但是我剛才也講過的，最重要的還是水跟電，各位都很清楚，一直在指責說菲律賓的電7塊、8塊，這麼高的價格，我怎麼可能送回來？對不起，我是先創1塊或2塊錢的電，讓他們先供給給在菲律賓的這些臺商或者日商，或是從中國大陸要移轉出來的這些臺商，讓他們先得到基礎建設的這些輔助，讓他更具有競爭力，這個才是我們最大的目的。","第二個，如果有剩下的，發出來的電有剩下的話，我們可以用兩種方式把它送回來，一種是透過電池船送回來；一種是通過海纜送回來，海纜這個部分是2011年就在世界討論的一個海事工程，我們也看到了非常多歐洲的國家是透過海纜在送電；我們也看到最新的計畫，像新加坡願意從澳洲拉4,800公里到新加坡，也是透過海纜。我們也透過很多的智庫分析，也透過很多的單位來做相關評估，評估報告都有，所以我們做了這一份可行性分析，認為這是可行的。接著我們要做實地的驗證，實地的驗證是科學的方法，透過實地的驗證，確認它是可行的以後，我們才會建議國內的綠電業者往那邊移動，但是我們也會跟當地政府來討論怎麼樣給我們一些好的優惠的措施。所以對經濟部來講，這麼大的一個計畫不是這麼輕易的就做決定，我們都有做非常多的simulation，只是跟委員報告，有一些部分牽扯到國安，恕我們在這裡不能夠詳細的報告。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，不要什麼事情最後都扯到國安啦，我覺得我們還是應該就……"],["郭部長智輝：因為我們現在有非常多所謂的假訊息、非常多的認知作戰，所以這一點請委員能夠諒解，我們確實沒有辦法在這裡鉅細靡遺的報告，但是我們願意到您的辦公室去做鉅細靡遺的報告。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝，也請你回去後能夠轉達電價審議委員會，把本院委員所有對於電價不應該調漲的這個問題要如實的來陳述，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是的，我們會如實的陳述。"],["主席（謝委員衣鳯）：現在請呂玉玲委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-3","speakers":["謝衣鳯","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","張嘉郡","呂玉玲","賴士葆","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","郭國文","陳昭姿","林月琴","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","徐富癸","羅智強","陳超明","林德福","牛煦庭","蔡易餘"],"page_start":193,"meetingDate":["2025-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1143002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143002_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143002_00004"}}}