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審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「學校營養飲食供餐法草案」案。(二十一) \t審查委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「高級中等以下學校供餐及飲食教育條例草案」案。(二十二) 審查委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」案。(二十三) 審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案。\n二、審查「運動產業發展條例」：\n(一) 審查委員柯志恩等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(二) 審查委員張智倫等 18 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(三) 審查委員洪孟楷等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(四) 審查委員王鴻薇等 19 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(五) 審查委員林倩綺等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第四條條文修正草案」案。(六) 審查委員沈發惠等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二條條文修正草案」案。(七) 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665.961, \"end\": 666.181, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 666.181, \"end\": 666.421, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 666.421, \"end\": 667.383, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 667.383, \"end\": 667.543, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 667.543, \"end\": 667.823, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 667.823, \"end\": 668.604, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 668.604, \"end\": 669.005, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 669.005, \"end\": 669.385, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 669.385, \"end\": 669.525, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 669.525, \"end\": 669.546, \"score\": 0.195}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,698 --> 00:00:05,081\n主席早安有請次長有請次長被質詢謝謝好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝委員剛剛一進來就被我們主席點名了那我看到主席這個相當生氣那在這裡我想問一下獎學金的部分應該不是只有教育部能提供對吧\n\n2\n00:00:25,623 --> 00:00:50,181\n應該是有各類的啦剛才提過說像僑委會啦外交部啦或者是中研院國科會我去訪問外國的時候其實也會遇到台灣的一些留學生他們是譬如說他們是政府的官員那他們有一些計畫他們前往那邊去做學習學術的交流或一年有各種研習他們可能統稱獎學金所以我不清楚這個新聞事件上所講的留學生是哪一類\n\n3\n00:00:52,483 --> 00:01:08,084\n因為委員非常關心我們一定會再繼續因為委員的指責我們也很難過啦所以說我們可以繼續做這個了解我沒有指責教育部啊對我們沒有指責教育部我們只是在想說這個來源我們要搞清楚不然其實真的罵錯人了\n\n4\n00:01:08,464 --> 00:01:34,293\n好不好好那這個其實也是原po啊他在底下有人在問了他說請問很好奇喔這個關於這一個部會的這個獎學金到底是哪一個單位負責那他也提出了因為中研院也把老師的名字也寫出來囉好那我想呢在這個中研院114年的預算當中的業務費喔其中的業務費其實也包含學術交流的部分\n\n5\n00:01:34,893 --> 00:01:54,525\n那當然也包含參與學術研討的相關的經費那這個部分呢有沒有被刪有沒有被砍有沒有被動教育部知道嗎我想就按照剛才委員關心我們如果已經是有名有姓有單位我們會去了解關係沒關係我來回答齁在中研院的部分呢其實我們在立法院已經凍結了11.62億\n\n6\n00:01:56,846 --> 00:02:18,019\n就是關於中研院的業務費那我剛剛提到了這業務的範圍包含學術交流也包含參與學術的研討相關的事件那有可能就跟這一位沒有辦法成行的同學博士生有相關了那另外呢在整個所有的經費呢也是被砍了大概將近15%15%大概就是3300萬\n\n7\n00:02:23,203 --> 00:02:36,481\n所以其實不是只有劍指教育部就沒事因為還有很多的部會我在這裡也做一個說明我們剛才也是說教育部沒有但是其他的單位到底有沒有我們也必須去了解不然我們背上好多劍好多刀\n\n8\n00:02:38,283 --> 00:02:57,068\n好那再來因為今天剛好次長來除了剛剛我們大家都關心的營養午餐以外我先來講一下關於上一個會期應該是說上上個會期三月的時候因為凱凱案昨天他們開了第四度的這個準備的程序庭\n\n9\n00:02:57,728 --> 00:03:24,359\n那這第四度的程序準備庭其實我也到場的去聆聽喔那主要就是他們在接著下來之後的審判庭期喔審判的這個期日呢來做整個所有的程序的一個報告喔那凱凱案當初為什麼我會這麼的關心是因為他的隸屬的主管機關之一當時還沒改例在九月初改例之前其中最大的就是我們的\n\n10\n00:03:25,299 --> 00:03:39,946\n教育部是我們他的主管機關那針對這個凱凱案呢從頭到尾其實跟教育部相關我質詢了大概有八次即便在兒福聯盟改例到衛福部\n\n11\n00:03:40,626 --> 00:03:56,135\n在10月4號的總質詢當中我也在大院針對兒福聯盟來做質詢那我想當初其實我們的建議要部長他也有同意也答應我給我一個肯定的答案\n\n12\n00:03:56,835 --> 00:04:15,751\n就是在凱凱案告一個段落之後他會來再回過頭來追責所謂的兒福聯盟在內部控管的缺失跟他們整個所有的監察的系統的一個落差這個部分還有他們在內部的消息有沒有疏失來做一個懲處\n\n13\n00:04:17,012 --> 00:04:34,551\n我想這個部分我還是需要再次在今天的這個質詢我希望能夠得到這個次長您的同意然後您的認可我們繼續雖然教育部現在已經不是兒福聯盟的主管機關但是我們還是希望能夠繼續就責可以嗎可以沒有問題\n\n14\n00:04:37,774 --> 00:04:51,967\n我們會等這個司法判決他會有一些犯罪事實的這個判決結果的認定會書寫那我們會有更清楚的一個究責的對象那我們行政機關是一體嘛我們到時候會一起來努力\n\n15\n00:04:52,748 --> 00:05:12,152\n尤其是我們昨天其實我跟林月琴委員我們兩個人在追凱凱案的這個時間跟次數應該算是全院最多的但是我們沒有站在人群面前去討拍去蹭這個聲量那尤其是當初3月14號3月18號的時候未還的委員會\n\n16\n00:05:16,974 --> 00:05:28,172\n召開了他們的這個會議針對凱凱案的時候其實當時他們的主席還是兒福聯盟的高層董事王玉敏\n\n17\n00:05:29,079 --> 00:05:51,673\n那這個部分其實他當初沒有迴避繼續擔任主席而且還說他也是3月11號聽到媒體揭露他才知道凱凱案的以兒福聯盟這麼龐大的慈善巨獸居然他是董事他是高層怎麼會在孩子在2023年12月24號的平安夜已經離開了\n\n18\n00:05:56,576 --> 00:06:07,277\n他到三月份還是聽媒體才知道的這個部分我個人非常的不苟同我也非常的不認同好我們來進入今天的營養午餐的部分\n\n19\n00:06:09,158 --> 00:06:25,268\n我想學校的營養午餐攸關學生的健康是非常重要的但是營養午餐的亂象其實也頗多像前一陣子我們看到就是有學校的營養午餐就是擠所謂的應該銀絲捲光一顆銀絲捲可以擠出大概半碗油等等然後再來關於所謂的營養午餐的這樣子的一個亂象其實還是有一些新聞頻傳但是在我們\n\n20\n00:06:39,016 --> 00:07:06,662\n知道從這個營養午餐依照地方制度法其實事權在地方然後另外呢在過去其實我們中央有一些補助但是今年我想要問次長最重要的一件事情是我們在11月之後發生了才化法請問對我們的營養午餐不管是地方的一些營養午餐的補助請問會不會有重大的影響\n\n21\n00:07:07,442 --> 00:07:22,902\n當然是會有啦所以說我們就想說其實因為財化法的這樣的修其實對於這個像國民教育階段需要中央大量補助的這些國教補助款那過去雖然在審查的過程裡面也說一般補助款\n\n22\n00:07:23,402 --> 00:07:43,547\n要不能減少但事實上我們有很多地方的補助是透過計畫來達成政策的目的譬如說我們希望孩子吃得好吃得安全那吃得營養那當然像張Q的補助從106年到現在上路已經補助到一年38億像這個弱勢孩童要讓他吃得飽\n\n23\n00:07:44,267 --> 00:08:12,307\n那要協助地方政府去補助他們那也從91年到現在也陸續補助的到每年21億像這個廚房設備不足偏向的地方那校長常常開著發財車到地方到山下採購一個禮拜像這樣子的一個新聞我們都看到了那這幾年來陸續也在委員的關心下我們編列的經費中央廚房每年也都到達到了15億所以我說每年其實我們不算那個餐費的補助\n\n24\n00:08:12,907 --> 00:08:35,348\n光是這方面補助其實已經高達74億了那財化法的衝擊對國教補助款的影響到底有多大我想我們也在做內部的謹慎評估但是對於修法會再增加負擔跟補助的部分我們是真的覺得不跟地方政府攤開來談那事實上修的再怎麼樣的法好好的法我們怎麼樣來落實會變成將來一個\n\n25\n00:08:38,030 --> 00:08:54,276\n我們是不希望看到中央地方在互推我想讓孩子吃得好我剛才也說過那是一個甜蜜的負擔那中央跟地方一定要合作一定要來談所以中央跟地方目前其實是還沒有達到對不能說我們錢沒了錢被拿走了三成28%結果地方增加的\n\n26\n00:08:54,756 --> 00:09:21,341\n那我們又要去負擔又沒有那個能力然後地方又說他們沒辦法接手那這樣子就真的就是不是一件我們樂見看到的尤其是我們看到有很多的委員提案也包括我自己其實我也特別對委員提案非常肯定就是從40班至少有一個營養師我們希望能夠往下就是再擴增比方說可能20班就至少要增加一位這個營養師原額的配置也因為採劃法其實營養師陸續這幾年都有在增加\n\n27\n00:09:21,681 --> 00:09:23,363\n所以其實光是我們的財化法到目前為止其實我們不知道對所謂的這個營養午餐它會有多重大的一個影響\n\n28\n00:09:43,644 --> 00:10:04,079\n那目前有沒有一個時程是說我們跟地方要怎麼樣來大家把事權講好到底是要五五分呢還是要三七分還是要八二分我想委員知道在這樣氣氛下教育部我們會很強力的來捍衛這個預算但是要跟地方談我剛才提過了有些縣市對於他所獲配的財源\n\n29\n00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:29,952\n他不見得很滿意那中央說我們要收回這個補助款希望由地方負擔他也不會那麼容易答應我舉個例子嘛台南台南現在國立高中他還是我們國立的那其他的六都裡面大概有四都已經收回了那台南會願意嗎那台南不願意我們怎麼辦那像台北市他錢比較多他或許他會願意比較好談那新北會願意嗎有些偏鄉的補助所以這個我們\n\n30\n00:10:31,312 --> 00:10:54,807\n要盡速來溝通啦那也希望才能把這個影響能夠把影響降到最低啦因為孩子其實在學校的營養其實真的靠營養五成現在行政委員會做憲法就緝嘛剛才那個委員已經提過說復育已經過了那現在行政就緝如何我們當然如果說真的對我們裁員的影響不大我們當然不樂見還要透過跟地方協商我們會很大方的補助啦就像過去這幾年一樣好\n\n31\n00:10:56,548 --> 00:11:09,546\n那我們希望能夠就是因為才化法的關係然後在營養午餐的部分我們其實不打折還能夠給孩子更安全然後給家長也放心好嗎謝謝委員的關心謝謝市長好謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2698\t5081\t主席早安 有請次長有請次長被質詢 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝主席 謝謝委員剛剛一進來就被我們主席點名了那我看到主席這個相當生氣那在這裡我想問一下獎學金的部分應該不是只有教育部能提供對吧\n25623\t50181\t應該是有各類的啦剛才提過說像僑委會啦外交部啦或者是中研院國科會我去訪問外國的時候其實也會遇到台灣的一些留學生他們是譬如說他們是政府的官員那他們有一些計畫他們前往那邊去做學習學術的交流或一年有各種研習他們可能統稱獎學金所以我不清楚這個新聞事件上所講的留學生是哪一類\n52483\t68084\t因為委員非常關心我們一定會再繼續因為委員的指責我們也很難過啦所以說我們可以繼續做這個了解我沒有指責教育部啊對我們沒有指責教育部我們只是在想說這個來源我們要搞清楚不然其實真的罵錯人了\n68464\t94293\t好不好好那這個其實也是原po啊他在底下有人在問了他說請問很好奇喔這個關於這一個部會的這個獎學金到底是哪一個單位負責那他也提出了因為中研院也把老師的名字也寫出來囉好那我想呢在這個中研院114年的預算當中的業務費喔其中的業務費其實也包含學術交流的部分\n94893\t114525\t那當然也包含參與學術研討的相關的經費那這個部分呢有沒有被刪 有沒有被砍 有沒有被動教育部知道嗎我想就按照剛才委員關心我們如果已經是有名有姓有單位我們會去了解關係沒關係我來回答齁在中研院的部分呢其實我們在立法院已經凍結了11.62億\n116846\t138019\t就是關於中研院的業務費那我剛剛提到了這業務的範圍包含學術交流也包含參與學術的研討相關的事件那有可能就跟這一位沒有辦法成行的同學博士生有相關了那另外呢在整個所有的經費呢也是被砍了大概將近15%15%大概就是3300萬\n143203\t156481\t所以其實不是只有劍指教育部就沒事因為還有很多的部會我在這裡也做一個說明我們剛才也是說教育部沒有但是其他的單位到底有沒有我們也必須去了解不然我們背上好多劍好多刀\n158283\t177068\t好那再來因為今天剛好次長來除了剛剛我們大家都關心的營養午餐以外我先來講一下關於上一個會期應該是說上上個會期三月的時候因為凱凱案昨天他們開了第四度的這個準備的程序庭\n177728\t204359\t那這第四度的程序準備庭其實我也到場的去聆聽喔那主要就是他們在接著下來之後的審判庭期喔審判的這個期日呢來做整個所有的程序的一個報告喔那凱凱案當初為什麼我會這麼的關心是因為他的隸屬的主管機關之一當時還沒改例在九月初改例之前其中最大的就是我們的\n205299\t219946\t教育部是我們他的主管機關那針對這個凱凱案呢從頭到尾其實跟教育部相關我質詢了大概有八次即便在兒福聯盟改例到衛福部\n220626\t236135\t在10月4號的總質詢當中我也在大院針對兒福聯盟來做質詢那我想當初其實我們的建議要部長他也有同意也答應我給我一個肯定的答案\n236835\t255751\t就是在凱凱案告一個段落之後他會來再回過頭來追責所謂的兒福聯盟在內部控管的缺失跟他們整個所有的監察的系統的一個落差這個部分還有他們在內部的消息有沒有疏失來做一個懲處\n257012\t274551\t我想這個部分我還是需要再次在今天的這個質詢我希望能夠得到這個次長您的同意然後您的認可我們繼續雖然教育部現在已經不是兒福聯盟的主管機關但是我們還是希望能夠繼續就責可以嗎可以沒有問題\n277774\t291967\t我們會等這個司法判決他會有一些犯罪事實的這個判決結果的認定會書寫那我們會有更清楚的一個究責的對象那我們行政機關是一體嘛我們到時候會一起來努力\n292748\t312152\t尤其是我們昨天其實我跟林月琴委員我們兩個人在追凱凱案的這個時間跟次數應該算是全院最多的但是我們沒有站在人群面前去討拍去蹭這個聲量那尤其是當初3月14號3月18號的時候未還的委員會\n316974\t328172\t召開了他們的這個會議針對凱凱案的時候其實當時他們的主席還是兒福聯盟的高層董事王玉敏\n329079\t351673\t那這個部分其實他當初沒有迴避繼續擔任主席而且還說他也是3月11號聽到媒體揭露他才知道凱凱案的以兒福聯盟這麼龐大的慈善巨獸居然他是董事他是高層怎麼會在孩子在2023年12月24號的平安夜已經離開了\n356576\t367277\t他到三月份還是聽媒體才知道的這個部分我個人非常的不苟同我也非常的不認同好 我們來進入今天的營養午餐的部分\n369158\t385268\t我想學校的營養午餐攸關學生的健康是非常重要的但是營養午餐的亂象其實也頗多像前一陣子我們看到就是有學校的營養午餐就是擠所謂的應該銀絲捲光一顆銀絲捲可以擠出大概半碗油等等然後再來關於所謂的營養午餐的這樣子的一個亂象其實還是有一些新聞頻傳但是在我們\n399016\t426662\t知道從這個營養午餐依照地方制度法其實事權在地方然後另外呢在過去其實我們中央有一些補助但是今年我想要問次長最重要的一件事情是我們在11月之後發生了才化法請問對我們的營養午餐不管是地方的一些營養午餐的補助請問會不會有重大的影響\n427442\t442902\t當然是會有啦所以說我們就想說其實因為財化法的這樣的修其實對於這個像國民教育階段需要中央大量補助的這些國教補助款那過去雖然在審查的過程裡面也說一般補助款\n443402\t463547\t要不能減少但事實上我們有很多地方的補助是透過計畫來達成政策的目的譬如說我們希望孩子吃得好吃得安全那吃得營養那當然像張Q的補助從106年到現在上路已經補助到一年38億像這個弱勢孩童要讓他吃得飽\n464267\t492307\t那要協助地方政府去補助他們那也從91年到現在也陸續補助的到每年21億像這個廚房設備不足偏向的地方那校長常常開著發財車到地方到山下採購一個禮拜像這樣子的一個新聞我們都看到了那這幾年來陸續也在委員的關心下我們編列的經費中央廚房每年也都到達到了15億所以我說每年其實我們不算那個餐費的補助\n492907\t515348\t光是這方面補助其實已經高達74億了那財化法的衝擊對國教補助款的影響到底有多大我想我們也在做內部的謹慎評估但是對於修法會再增加負擔跟補助的部分我們是真的覺得不跟地方政府攤開來談那事實上修的再怎麼樣的法好好的法我們怎麼樣來落實會變成將來一個\n518030\t534276\t我們是不希望看到中央地方在互推我想讓孩子吃得好我剛才也說過那是一個甜蜜的負擔那中央跟地方一定要合作一定要來談所以中央跟地方目前其實是還沒有達到對 不能說我們錢沒了錢被拿走了三成28%結果地方增加的\n534756\t561341\t那我們又要去負擔又沒有那個能力然後地方又說他們沒辦法接手那這樣子就真的就是不是一件我們樂見看到的尤其是我們看到有很多的委員提案也包括我自己其實我也特別對委員提案非常肯定就是從40班至少有一個營養師我們希望能夠往下就是再擴增比方說可能20班就至少要增加一位這個營養師原額的配置也因為採劃法其實營養師陸續這幾年都有在增加\n561681\t563363\t所以其實光是我們的財化法到目前為止其實我們不知道對所謂的這個營養午餐它會有多重大的一個影響\n583644\t604079\t那目前有沒有一個時程是說我們跟地方要怎麼樣來大家把事權講好到底是要五五分呢還是要三七分還是要八二分我想委員知道在這樣氣氛下教育部我們會很強力的來捍衛這個預算但是要跟地方談我剛才提過了有些縣市對於他所獲配的財源\n605100\t629952\t他不見得很滿意那中央說我們要收回這個補助款希望由地方負擔他也不會那麼容易答應我舉個例子嘛台南台南現在國立高中他還是我們國立的那其他的六都裡面大概有四都已經收回了那台南會願意嗎那台南不願意我們怎麼辦那像台北市他錢比較多他或許他會願意比較好談那新北會願意嗎有些偏鄉的補助所以這個我們\n631312\t654807\t要盡速來溝通啦那也希望才能把這個影響能夠把影響降到最低啦因為孩子其實在學校的營養其實真的靠營養五成現在行政委員會做憲法就緝嘛剛才那個委員已經提過說復育已經過了那現在行政就緝如何我們當然如果說真的對我們裁員的影響不大我們當然不樂見還要透過跟地方協商我們會很大方的補助啦就像過去這幾年一樣好\n656548\t669546\t那我們希望能夠就是因為才化法的關係然後在營養午餐的部分我們其實不打折還能夠給孩子更安全然後給家長也放心好嗎謝謝委員的關心謝謝市長好謝謝主席\n","txt":"主席早安 有請次長有請次長被質詢 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝主席 謝謝委員剛剛一進來就被我們主席點名了那我看到主席這個相當生氣那在這裡我想問一下獎學金的部分應該不是只有教育部能提供對吧\n應該是有各類的啦剛才提過說像僑委會啦外交部啦或者是中研院國科會我去訪問外國的時候其實也會遇到台灣的一些留學生他們是譬如說他們是政府的官員那他們有一些計畫他們前往那邊去做學習學術的交流或一年有各種研習他們可能統稱獎學金所以我不清楚這個新聞事件上所講的留學生是哪一類\n因為委員非常關心我們一定會再繼續因為委員的指責我們也很難過啦所以說我們可以繼續做這個了解我沒有指責教育部啊對我們沒有指責教育部我們只是在想說這個來源我們要搞清楚不然其實真的罵錯人了\n好不好好那這個其實也是原po啊他在底下有人在問了他說請問很好奇喔這個關於這一個部會的這個獎學金到底是哪一個單位負責那他也提出了因為中研院也把老師的名字也寫出來囉好那我想呢在這個中研院114年的預算當中的業務費喔其中的業務費其實也包含學術交流的部分\n那當然也包含參與學術研討的相關的經費那這個部分呢有沒有被刪 有沒有被砍 有沒有被動教育部知道嗎我想就按照剛才委員關心我們如果已經是有名有姓有單位我們會去了解關係沒關係我來回答齁在中研院的部分呢其實我們在立法院已經凍結了11.62億\n就是關於中研院的業務費那我剛剛提到了這業務的範圍包含學術交流也包含參與學術的研討相關的事件那有可能就跟這一位沒有辦法成行的同學博士生有相關了那另外呢在整個所有的經費呢也是被砍了大概將近15%15%大概就是3300萬\n所以其實不是只有劍指教育部就沒事因為還有很多的部會我在這裡也做一個說明我們剛才也是說教育部沒有但是其他的單位到底有沒有我們也必須去了解不然我們背上好多劍好多刀\n好那再來因為今天剛好次長來除了剛剛我們大家都關心的營養午餐以外我先來講一下關於上一個會期應該是說上上個會期三月的時候因為凱凱案昨天他們開了第四度的這個準備的程序庭\n那這第四度的程序準備庭其實我也到場的去聆聽喔那主要就是他們在接著下來之後的審判庭期喔審判的這個期日呢來做整個所有的程序的一個報告喔那凱凱案當初為什麼我會這麼的關心是因為他的隸屬的主管機關之一當時還沒改例在九月初改例之前其中最大的就是我們的\n教育部是我們他的主管機關那針對這個凱凱案呢從頭到尾其實跟教育部相關我質詢了大概有八次即便在兒福聯盟改例到衛福部\n在10月4號的總質詢當中我也在大院針對兒福聯盟來做質詢那我想當初其實我們的建議要部長他也有同意也答應我給我一個肯定的答案\n就是在凱凱案告一個段落之後他會來再回過頭來追責所謂的兒福聯盟在內部控管的缺失跟他們整個所有的監察的系統的一個落差這個部分還有他們在內部的消息有沒有疏失來做一個懲處\n我想這個部分我還是需要再次在今天的這個質詢我希望能夠得到這個次長您的同意然後您的認可我們繼續雖然教育部現在已經不是兒福聯盟的主管機關但是我們還是希望能夠繼續就責可以嗎可以沒有問題\n我們會等這個司法判決他會有一些犯罪事實的這個判決結果的認定會書寫那我們會有更清楚的一個究責的對象那我們行政機關是一體嘛我們到時候會一起來努力\n尤其是我們昨天其實我跟林月琴委員我們兩個人在追凱凱案的這個時間跟次數應該算是全院最多的但是我們沒有站在人群面前去討拍去蹭這個聲量那尤其是當初3月14號3月18號的時候未還的委員會\n召開了他們的這個會議針對凱凱案的時候其實當時他們的主席還是兒福聯盟的高層董事王玉敏\n那這個部分其實他當初沒有迴避繼續擔任主席而且還說他也是3月11號聽到媒體揭露他才知道凱凱案的以兒福聯盟這麼龐大的慈善巨獸居然他是董事他是高層怎麼會在孩子在2023年12月24號的平安夜已經離開了\n他到三月份還是聽媒體才知道的這個部分我個人非常的不苟同我也非常的不認同好 我們來進入今天的營養午餐的部分\n我想學校的營養午餐攸關學生的健康是非常重要的但是營養午餐的亂象其實也頗多像前一陣子我們看到就是有學校的營養午餐就是擠所謂的應該銀絲捲光一顆銀絲捲可以擠出大概半碗油等等然後再來關於所謂的營養午餐的這樣子的一個亂象其實還是有一些新聞頻傳但是在我們\n知道從這個營養午餐依照地方制度法其實事權在地方然後另外呢在過去其實我們中央有一些補助但是今年我想要問次長最重要的一件事情是我們在11月之後發生了才化法請問對我們的營養午餐不管是地方的一些營養午餐的補助請問會不會有重大的影響\n當然是會有啦所以說我們就想說其實因為財化法的這樣的修其實對於這個像國民教育階段需要中央大量補助的這些國教補助款那過去雖然在審查的過程裡面也說一般補助款\n要不能減少但事實上我們有很多地方的補助是透過計畫來達成政策的目的譬如說我們希望孩子吃得好吃得安全那吃得營養那當然像張Q的補助從106年到現在上路已經補助到一年38億像這個弱勢孩童要讓他吃得飽\n那要協助地方政府去補助他們那也從91年到現在也陸續補助的到每年21億像這個廚房設備不足偏向的地方那校長常常開著發財車到地方到山下採購一個禮拜像這樣子的一個新聞我們都看到了那這幾年來陸續也在委員的關心下我們編列的經費中央廚房每年也都到達到了15億所以我說每年其實我們不算那個餐費的補助\n光是這方面補助其實已經高達74億了那財化法的衝擊對國教補助款的影響到底有多大我想我們也在做內部的謹慎評估但是對於修法會再增加負擔跟補助的部分我們是真的覺得不跟地方政府攤開來談那事實上修的再怎麼樣的法好好的法我們怎麼樣來落實會變成將來一個\n我們是不希望看到中央地方在互推我想讓孩子吃得好我剛才也說過那是一個甜蜜的負擔那中央跟地方一定要合作一定要來談所以中央跟地方目前其實是還沒有達到對 不能說我們錢沒了錢被拿走了三成28%結果地方增加的\n那我們又要去負擔又沒有那個能力然後地方又說他們沒辦法接手那這樣子就真的就是不是一件我們樂見看到的尤其是我們看到有很多的委員提案也包括我自己其實我也特別對委員提案非常肯定就是從40班至少有一個營養師我們希望能夠往下就是再擴增比方說可能20班就至少要增加一位這個營養師原額的配置也因為採劃法其實營養師陸續這幾年都有在增加\n所以其實光是我們的財化法到目前為止其實我們不知道對所謂的這個營養午餐它會有多重大的一個影響\n那目前有沒有一個時程是說我們跟地方要怎麼樣來大家把事權講好到底是要五五分呢還是要三七分還是要八二分我想委員知道在這樣氣氛下教育部我們會很強力的來捍衛這個預算但是要跟地方談我剛才提過了有些縣市對於他所獲配的財源\n他不見得很滿意那中央說我們要收回這個補助款希望由地方負擔他也不會那麼容易答應我舉個例子嘛台南台南現在國立高中他還是我們國立的那其他的六都裡面大概有四都已經收回了那台南會願意嗎那台南不願意我們怎麼辦那像台北市他錢比較多他或許他會願意比較好談那新北會願意嗎有些偏鄉的補助所以這個我們\n要盡速來溝通啦那也希望才能把這個影響能夠把影響降到最低啦因為孩子其實在學校的營養其實真的靠營養五成現在行政委員會做憲法就緝嘛剛才那個委員已經提過說復育已經過了那現在行政就緝如何我們當然如果說真的對我們裁員的影響不大我們當然不樂見還要透過跟地方協商我們會很大方的補助啦就像過去這幾年一樣好\n那我們希望能夠就是因為才化法的關係然後在營養午餐的部分我們其實不打折還能夠給孩子更安全然後給家長也放心好嗎謝謝委員的關心謝謝市長好謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.698 --> 00:05.081\n主席早安有請次長有請次長被質詢謝謝好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝委員剛剛一進來就被我們主席點名了那我看到主席這個相當生氣那在這裡我想問一下獎學金的部分應該不是只有教育部能提供對吧\n\n00:25.623 --> 00:50.181\n應該是有各類的啦剛才提過說像僑委會啦外交部啦或者是中研院國科會我去訪問外國的時候其實也會遇到台灣的一些留學生他們是譬如說他們是政府的官員那他們有一些計畫他們前往那邊去做學習學術的交流或一年有各種研習他們可能統稱獎學金所以我不清楚這個新聞事件上所講的留學生是哪一類\n\n00:52.483 --> 01:08.084\n因為委員非常關心我們一定會再繼續因為委員的指責我們也很難過啦所以說我們可以繼續做這個了解我沒有指責教育部啊對我們沒有指責教育部我們只是在想說這個來源我們要搞清楚不然其實真的罵錯人了\n\n01:08.464 --> 01:34.293\n好不好好那這個其實也是原po啊他在底下有人在問了他說請問很好奇喔這個關於這一個部會的這個獎學金到底是哪一個單位負責那他也提出了因為中研院也把老師的名字也寫出來囉好那我想呢在這個中研院114年的預算當中的業務費喔其中的業務費其實也包含學術交流的部分\n\n01:34.893 --> 01:54.525\n那當然也包含參與學術研討的相關的經費那這個部分呢有沒有被刪有沒有被砍有沒有被動教育部知道嗎我想就按照剛才委員關心我們如果已經是有名有姓有單位我們會去了解關係沒關係我來回答齁在中研院的部分呢其實我們在立法院已經凍結了11.62億\n\n01:56.846 --> 02:18.019\n就是關於中研院的業務費那我剛剛提到了這業務的範圍包含學術交流也包含參與學術的研討相關的事件那有可能就跟這一位沒有辦法成行的同學博士生有相關了那另外呢在整個所有的經費呢也是被砍了大概將近15%15%大概就是3300萬\n\n02:23.203 --> 02:36.481\n所以其實不是只有劍指教育部就沒事因為還有很多的部會我在這裡也做一個說明我們剛才也是說教育部沒有但是其他的單位到底有沒有我們也必須去了解不然我們背上好多劍好多刀\n\n02:38.283 --> 02:57.068\n好那再來因為今天剛好次長來除了剛剛我們大家都關心的營養午餐以外我先來講一下關於上一個會期應該是說上上個會期三月的時候因為凱凱案昨天他們開了第四度的這個準備的程序庭\n\n02:57.728 --> 03:24.359\n那這第四度的程序準備庭其實我也到場的去聆聽喔那主要就是他們在接著下來之後的審判庭期喔審判的這個期日呢來做整個所有的程序的一個報告喔那凱凱案當初為什麼我會這麼的關心是因為他的隸屬的主管機關之一當時還沒改例在九月初改例之前其中最大的就是我們的\n\n03:25.299 --> 03:39.946\n教育部是我們他的主管機關那針對這個凱凱案呢從頭到尾其實跟教育部相關我質詢了大概有八次即便在兒福聯盟改例到衛福部\n\n03:40.626 --> 03:56.135\n在10月4號的總質詢當中我也在大院針對兒福聯盟來做質詢那我想當初其實我們的建議要部長他也有同意也答應我給我一個肯定的答案\n\n03:56.835 --> 04:15.751\n就是在凱凱案告一個段落之後他會來再回過頭來追責所謂的兒福聯盟在內部控管的缺失跟他們整個所有的監察的系統的一個落差這個部分還有他們在內部的消息有沒有疏失來做一個懲處\n\n04:17.012 --> 04:34.551\n我想這個部分我還是需要再次在今天的這個質詢我希望能夠得到這個次長您的同意然後您的認可我們繼續雖然教育部現在已經不是兒福聯盟的主管機關但是我們還是希望能夠繼續就責可以嗎可以沒有問題\n\n04:37.774 --> 04:51.967\n我們會等這個司法判決他會有一些犯罪事實的這個判決結果的認定會書寫那我們會有更清楚的一個究責的對象那我們行政機關是一體嘛我們到時候會一起來努力\n\n04:52.748 --> 05:12.152\n尤其是我們昨天其實我跟林月琴委員我們兩個人在追凱凱案的這個時間跟次數應該算是全院最多的但是我們沒有站在人群面前去討拍去蹭這個聲量那尤其是當初3月14號3月18號的時候未還的委員會\n\n05:16.974 --> 05:28.172\n召開了他們的這個會議針對凱凱案的時候其實當時他們的主席還是兒福聯盟的高層董事王玉敏\n\n05:29.079 --> 05:51.673\n那這個部分其實他當初沒有迴避繼續擔任主席而且還說他也是3月11號聽到媒體揭露他才知道凱凱案的以兒福聯盟這麼龐大的慈善巨獸居然他是董事他是高層怎麼會在孩子在2023年12月24號的平安夜已經離開了\n\n05:56.576 --> 06:07.277\n他到三月份還是聽媒體才知道的這個部分我個人非常的不苟同我也非常的不認同好我們來進入今天的營養午餐的部分\n\n06:09.158 --> 06:25.268\n我想學校的營養午餐攸關學生的健康是非常重要的但是營養午餐的亂象其實也頗多像前一陣子我們看到就是有學校的營養午餐就是擠所謂的應該銀絲捲光一顆銀絲捲可以擠出大概半碗油等等然後再來關於所謂的營養午餐的這樣子的一個亂象其實還是有一些新聞頻傳但是在我們\n\n06:39.016 --> 07:06.662\n知道從這個營養午餐依照地方制度法其實事權在地方然後另外呢在過去其實我們中央有一些補助但是今年我想要問次長最重要的一件事情是我們在11月之後發生了才化法請問對我們的營養午餐不管是地方的一些營養午餐的補助請問會不會有重大的影響\n\n07:07.442 --> 07:22.902\n當然是會有啦所以說我們就想說其實因為財化法的這樣的修其實對於這個像國民教育階段需要中央大量補助的這些國教補助款那過去雖然在審查的過程裡面也說一般補助款\n\n07:23.402 --> 07:43.547\n要不能減少但事實上我們有很多地方的補助是透過計畫來達成政策的目的譬如說我們希望孩子吃得好吃得安全那吃得營養那當然像張Q的補助從106年到現在上路已經補助到一年38億像這個弱勢孩童要讓他吃得飽\n\n07:44.267 --> 08:12.307\n那要協助地方政府去補助他們那也從91年到現在也陸續補助的到每年21億像這個廚房設備不足偏向的地方那校長常常開著發財車到地方到山下採購一個禮拜像這樣子的一個新聞我們都看到了那這幾年來陸續也在委員的關心下我們編列的經費中央廚房每年也都到達到了15億所以我說每年其實我們不算那個餐費的補助\n\n08:12.907 --> 08:35.348\n光是這方面補助其實已經高達74億了那財化法的衝擊對國教補助款的影響到底有多大我想我們也在做內部的謹慎評估但是對於修法會再增加負擔跟補助的部分我們是真的覺得不跟地方政府攤開來談那事實上修的再怎麼樣的法好好的法我們怎麼樣來落實會變成將來一個\n\n08:38.030 --> 08:54.276\n我們是不希望看到中央地方在互推我想讓孩子吃得好我剛才也說過那是一個甜蜜的負擔那中央跟地方一定要合作一定要來談所以中央跟地方目前其實是還沒有達到對不能說我們錢沒了錢被拿走了三成28%結果地方增加的\n\n08:54.756 --> 09:21.341\n那我們又要去負擔又沒有那個能力然後地方又說他們沒辦法接手那這樣子就真的就是不是一件我們樂見看到的尤其是我們看到有很多的委員提案也包括我自己其實我也特別對委員提案非常肯定就是從40班至少有一個營養師我們希望能夠往下就是再擴增比方說可能20班就至少要增加一位這個營養師原額的配置也因為採劃法其實營養師陸續這幾年都有在增加\n\n09:21.681 --> 09:23.363\n所以其實光是我們的財化法到目前為止其實我們不知道對所謂的這個營養午餐它會有多重大的一個影響\n\n09:43.644 --> 10:04.079\n那目前有沒有一個時程是說我們跟地方要怎麼樣來大家把事權講好到底是要五五分呢還是要三七分還是要八二分我想委員知道在這樣氣氛下教育部我們會很強力的來捍衛這個預算但是要跟地方談我剛才提過了有些縣市對於他所獲配的財源\n\n10:05.100 --> 10:29.952\n他不見得很滿意那中央說我們要收回這個補助款希望由地方負擔他也不會那麼容易答應我舉個例子嘛台南台南現在國立高中他還是我們國立的那其他的六都裡面大概有四都已經收回了那台南會願意嗎那台南不願意我們怎麼辦那像台北市他錢比較多他或許他會願意比較好談那新北會願意嗎有些偏鄉的補助所以這個我們\n\n10:31.312 --> 10:54.807\n要盡速來溝通啦那也希望才能把這個影響能夠把影響降到最低啦因為孩子其實在學校的營養其實真的靠營養五成現在行政委員會做憲法就緝嘛剛才那個委員已經提過說復育已經過了那現在行政就緝如何我們當然如果說真的對我們裁員的影響不大我們當然不樂見還要透過跟地方協商我們會很大方的補助啦就像過去這幾年一樣好\n\n10:56.548 --> 11:09.546\n那我們希望能夠就是因為才化法的關係然後在營養午餐的部分我們其實不打折還能夠給孩子更安全然後給家長也放心好嗎謝謝委員的關心謝謝市長好謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.698,"end":5.081,"text":"主席早安 有請次長有請次長被質詢 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝主席 謝謝委員剛剛一進來就被我們主席點名了那我看到主席這個相當生氣那在這裡我想問一下獎學金的部分應該不是只有教育部能提供對吧"},{"start":25.623,"end":50.181,"text":"應該是有各類的啦剛才提過說像僑委會啦外交部啦或者是中研院國科會我去訪問外國的時候其實也會遇到台灣的一些留學生他們是譬如說他們是政府的官員那他們有一些計畫他們前往那邊去做學習學術的交流或一年有各種研習他們可能統稱獎學金所以我不清楚這個新聞事件上所講的留學生是哪一類"},{"start":52.483,"end":68.084,"text":"因為委員非常關心我們一定會再繼續因為委員的指責我們也很難過啦所以說我們可以繼續做這個了解我沒有指責教育部啊對我們沒有指責教育部我們只是在想說這個來源我們要搞清楚不然其實真的罵錯人了"},{"start":68.464,"end":94.293,"text":"好不好好那這個其實也是原po啊他在底下有人在問了他說請問很好奇喔這個關於這一個部會的這個獎學金到底是哪一個單位負責那他也提出了因為中研院也把老師的名字也寫出來囉好那我想呢在這個中研院114年的預算當中的業務費喔其中的業務費其實也包含學術交流的部分"},{"start":94.893,"end":114.525,"text":"那當然也包含參與學術研討的相關的經費那這個部分呢有沒有被刪 有沒有被砍 有沒有被動教育部知道嗎我想就按照剛才委員關心我們如果已經是有名有姓有單位我們會去了解關係沒關係我來回答齁在中研院的部分呢其實我們在立法院已經凍結了11.62億"},{"start":116.846,"end":138.019,"text":"就是關於中研院的業務費那我剛剛提到了這業務的範圍包含學術交流也包含參與學術的研討相關的事件那有可能就跟這一位沒有辦法成行的同學博士生有相關了那另外呢在整個所有的經費呢也是被砍了大概將近15%15%大概就是3300萬"},{"start":143.203,"end":156.481,"text":"所以其實不是只有劍指教育部就沒事因為還有很多的部會我在這裡也做一個說明我們剛才也是說教育部沒有但是其他的單位到底有沒有我們也必須去了解不然我們背上好多劍好多刀"},{"start":158.283,"end":177.068,"text":"好那再來因為今天剛好次長來除了剛剛我們大家都關心的營養午餐以外我先來講一下關於上一個會期應該是說上上個會期三月的時候因為凱凱案昨天他們開了第四度的這個準備的程序庭"},{"start":177.728,"end":204.359,"text":"那這第四度的程序準備庭其實我也到場的去聆聽喔那主要就是他們在接著下來之後的審判庭期喔審判的這個期日呢來做整個所有的程序的一個報告喔那凱凱案當初為什麼我會這麼的關心是因為他的隸屬的主管機關之一當時還沒改例在九月初改例之前其中最大的就是我們的"},{"start":205.299,"end":219.946,"text":"教育部是我們他的主管機關那針對這個凱凱案呢從頭到尾其實跟教育部相關我質詢了大概有八次即便在兒福聯盟改例到衛福部"},{"start":220.626,"end":236.135,"text":"在10月4號的總質詢當中我也在大院針對兒福聯盟來做質詢那我想當初其實我們的建議要部長他也有同意也答應我給我一個肯定的答案"},{"start":236.835,"end":255.751,"text":"就是在凱凱案告一個段落之後他會來再回過頭來追責所謂的兒福聯盟在內部控管的缺失跟他們整個所有的監察的系統的一個落差這個部分還有他們在內部的消息有沒有疏失來做一個懲處"},{"start":257.012,"end":274.551,"text":"我想這個部分我還是需要再次在今天的這個質詢我希望能夠得到這個次長您的同意然後您的認可我們繼續雖然教育部現在已經不是兒福聯盟的主管機關但是我們還是希望能夠繼續就責可以嗎可以沒有問題"},{"start":277.774,"end":291.967,"text":"我們會等這個司法判決他會有一些犯罪事實的這個判決結果的認定會書寫那我們會有更清楚的一個究責的對象那我們行政機關是一體嘛我們到時候會一起來努力"},{"start":292.748,"end":312.152,"text":"尤其是我們昨天其實我跟林月琴委員我們兩個人在追凱凱案的這個時間跟次數應該算是全院最多的但是我們沒有站在人群面前去討拍去蹭這個聲量那尤其是當初3月14號3月18號的時候未還的委員會"},{"start":316.974,"end":328.172,"text":"召開了他們的這個會議針對凱凱案的時候其實當時他們的主席還是兒福聯盟的高層董事王玉敏"},{"start":329.079,"end":351.673,"text":"那這個部分其實他當初沒有迴避繼續擔任主席而且還說他也是3月11號聽到媒體揭露他才知道凱凱案的以兒福聯盟這麼龐大的慈善巨獸居然他是董事他是高層怎麼會在孩子在2023年12月24號的平安夜已經離開了"},{"start":356.576,"end":367.277,"text":"他到三月份還是聽媒體才知道的這個部分我個人非常的不苟同我也非常的不認同好 我們來進入今天的營養午餐的部分"},{"start":369.158,"end":385.268,"text":"我想學校的營養午餐攸關學生的健康是非常重要的但是營養午餐的亂象其實也頗多像前一陣子我們看到就是有學校的營養午餐就是擠所謂的應該銀絲捲光一顆銀絲捲可以擠出大概半碗油等等然後再來關於所謂的營養午餐的這樣子的一個亂象其實還是有一些新聞頻傳但是在我們"},{"start":399.016,"end":426.662,"text":"知道從這個營養午餐依照地方制度法其實事權在地方然後另外呢在過去其實我們中央有一些補助但是今年我想要問次長最重要的一件事情是我們在11月之後發生了才化法請問對我們的營養午餐不管是地方的一些營養午餐的補助請問會不會有重大的影響"},{"start":427.442,"end":442.902,"text":"當然是會有啦所以說我們就想說其實因為財化法的這樣的修其實對於這個像國民教育階段需要中央大量補助的這些國教補助款那過去雖然在審查的過程裡面也說一般補助款"},{"start":443.402,"end":463.547,"text":"要不能減少但事實上我們有很多地方的補助是透過計畫來達成政策的目的譬如說我們希望孩子吃得好吃得安全那吃得營養那當然像張Q的補助從106年到現在上路已經補助到一年38億像這個弱勢孩童要讓他吃得飽"},{"start":464.267,"end":492.307,"text":"那要協助地方政府去補助他們那也從91年到現在也陸續補助的到每年21億像這個廚房設備不足偏向的地方那校長常常開著發財車到地方到山下採購一個禮拜像這樣子的一個新聞我們都看到了那這幾年來陸續也在委員的關心下我們編列的經費中央廚房每年也都到達到了15億所以我說每年其實我們不算那個餐費的補助"},{"start":492.907,"end":515.348,"text":"光是這方面補助其實已經高達74億了那財化法的衝擊對國教補助款的影響到底有多大我想我們也在做內部的謹慎評估但是對於修法會再增加負擔跟補助的部分我們是真的覺得不跟地方政府攤開來談那事實上修的再怎麼樣的法好好的法我們怎麼樣來落實會變成將來一個"},{"start":518.03,"end":534.276,"text":"我們是不希望看到中央地方在互推我想讓孩子吃得好我剛才也說過那是一個甜蜜的負擔那中央跟地方一定要合作一定要來談所以中央跟地方目前其實是還沒有達到對 不能說我們錢沒了錢被拿走了三成28%結果地方增加的"},{"start":534.756,"end":561.341,"text":"那我們又要去負擔又沒有那個能力然後地方又說他們沒辦法接手那這樣子就真的就是不是一件我們樂見看到的尤其是我們看到有很多的委員提案也包括我自己其實我也特別對委員提案非常肯定就是從40班至少有一個營養師我們希望能夠往下就是再擴增比方說可能20班就至少要增加一位這個營養師原額的配置也因為採劃法其實營養師陸續這幾年都有在增加"},{"start":561.681,"end":563.363,"text":"所以其實光是我們的財化法到目前為止其實我們不知道對所謂的這個營養午餐它會有多重大的一個影響"},{"start":583.644,"end":604.079,"text":"那目前有沒有一個時程是說我們跟地方要怎麼樣來大家把事權講好到底是要五五分呢還是要三七分還是要八二分我想委員知道在這樣氣氛下教育部我們會很強力的來捍衛這個預算但是要跟地方談我剛才提過了有些縣市對於他所獲配的財源"},{"start":605.1,"end":629.952,"text":"他不見得很滿意那中央說我們要收回這個補助款希望由地方負擔他也不會那麼容易答應我舉個例子嘛台南台南現在國立高中他還是我們國立的那其他的六都裡面大概有四都已經收回了那台南會願意嗎那台南不願意我們怎麼辦那像台北市他錢比較多他或許他會願意比較好談那新北會願意嗎有些偏鄉的補助所以這個我們"},{"start":631.312,"end":654.807,"text":"要盡速來溝通啦那也希望才能把這個影響能夠把影響降到最低啦因為孩子其實在學校的營養其實真的靠營養五成現在行政委員會做憲法就緝嘛剛才那個委員已經提過說復育已經過了那現在行政就緝如何我們當然如果說真的對我們裁員的影響不大我們當然不樂見還要透過跟地方協商我們會很大方的補助啦就像過去這幾年一樣好"},{"start":656.548,"end":669.546,"text":"那我們希望能夠就是因為才化法的關係然後在營養午餐的部分我們其實不打折還能夠給孩子更安全然後給家長也放心好嗎謝謝委員的關心謝謝市長好謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":648,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（11時32分）主席早安。有請次長。"],["主席：有請次長備詢，謝謝。"],["張廖次長萬堅：謝謝主席，委員好。"],["郭委員昱晴：剛剛一進來就被我們主席點名，我看到主席相當生氣，在這裡我想問獎學金的部分，應該不是只有教育部能提供，對吧？"],["張廖次長萬堅：應該是有各類的，剛剛提過像是僑委會。"],["郭委員昱晴：僑委會。"],["張廖次長萬堅：外交部。"],["郭委員昱晴：中研院、國科會。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對、對，我去訪問外國的時候也會遇到臺灣的一些留學生，譬如他們是政府的官員。"],["郭委員昱晴：是。"],["張廖次長萬堅：他們有一些計畫前往那邊去做學習。"],["郭委員昱晴：學術的交流。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對、對，有時候半年或一年，有各種研習。"],["郭委員昱晴：他們可能統稱獎學金。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對、對、對。所以我不清楚這個新聞事件上所講的留學生是哪一類……"],["郭委員昱晴：其實我們有答案。"],["張廖次長萬堅：因為委員非常關心，我們一定會再繼續……"],["郭委員昱晴：是、是。"],["張廖次長萬堅：因為委員的指責，我們也很難過啦！"],["郭委員昱晴：沒有、沒有。"],["張廖次長萬堅：可以繼續去做了解。"],["郭委員昱晴：我沒有指責教育部啊！只是在想這個來源，我們要搞清楚。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好。"],["郭委員昱晴：不然其實真的罵錯人了，好不好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：好。"],["郭委員昱晴：這個其實也是原po文，它底下有人在問了，他說：請問很好奇，關於部會的獎學金到底是哪一個單位負責？他也提出，因為中研院也把老師的名字寫出來囉！我想中研院114年預算其中的業務費，也包含學術交流的部分，當然也包含參與學術研討的相關經費，這個部分有沒有被刪、有沒有被砍、有沒有被凍，教育部知道嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：按照剛剛委員的關心，如果已經是有名、有姓、有單位，我們會去了解。"],["郭委員昱晴：沒關係，我來回答。中研院的部分，在立法院已經凍結11.62億，就是關於中研院的業務費，我剛剛提到這個業務的範圍包含學術交流。"],["張廖次長萬堅：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：也包含參與學術研討相關的事件，有可能就跟這位沒有辦法成行的同學──博士生有相關。另外，在整個所有的經費也是被砍了將近15%，15%大概就是3,300萬，所以不是只有劍指教育部就沒事，因為還有很多的部會，我在這裡也做一個說明。"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們剛剛也是說教育部沒有，但其他的單位到底有沒有，我們……"],["郭委員昱晴：沒錯。"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們也必須去做了解。"],["郭委員昱晴：是、是、是。不然我們背上好多箭、好多刀。再來，因為今天剛好次長來，除了剛剛大家都關心的營養午餐以外，我先來講關於上一個會期，應該是說上上個會期3月的時候，因為剴剴案昨天開了第四度的程序準備庭，其實我也到場去聆聽，主要是接下來之後的審判庭期，審判的期日來做整個所有程序的報告。剴剴案當初為什麼我會這麼的關心，是因為它的隸屬主管機關之一，當時在9月初還沒改立之前，其中最大的就是教育部是它的主管機關，針對剴剴案從頭到尾跟教育部相關的，我質詢了大概有8次，即便在兒福聯盟改立到衛福部，在10月4號的總質詢，我也在大院針對兒福聯盟來做質詢，當初我們的鄭英耀部長也有同意、也答應給我一個肯定的答案，就是在剴剴案告一個段落之後，他會再回過頭來追責兒福聯盟在內部控管的缺失跟所有監察系統的落差，還有他們在內部的消息有沒有疏失，來做一個懲處。"],["張廖次長萬堅：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：這個部分還是需要再次在今天的質詢，我希望能夠得到次長您的同意、您的認可，雖然教育部現在已經不是兒福聯盟的主管機關，但是我們還是希望能夠繼續究責，可以嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：可以，沒有問題。我們會等司法判決，它會有一些犯罪事實的判決結果的，認定會書寫，我們就有更清楚的究責對象，行政機關是一體的，到時候會一起來努力。"],["郭委員昱晴：尤其是昨天我跟林月琴委員，我們兩個人在追剴剴案的時間跟次數，應該算是全院最多的。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，我們非常敬佩委員的關心。"],["郭委員昱晴：但是我們沒有站在人群面前去討拍、去蹭聲量，尤其是當初3月14號、3月18號，衛環委員會召開會議針對剴剴案的時候，當時他們的主席還是兒福聯盟的高層董事王育敏，其實這個部分當初他沒有迴避繼續擔任主席，而且還說他也是3月11號聽到媒體揭露才知道剴剴案，以兒福聯盟這麼龐大的慈善巨獸，他是董事、他是高層，怎麼會在2023年12月24號平安夜孩子已經離開了，他到3月份還是聽到媒體才知道的。這個部分我個人非常的不苟同、我也非常的不認同。","好，我們來進入今天營養午餐的部分，我想學校的營養午餐攸關學生的健康是非常重要的，但是營養午餐的亂象其實也頗多，像前一陣子我們看到有學校的營養午餐，像是擠銀絲卷，光一顆銀絲卷就可以擠出大概半碗油等等。再來，關於營養午餐這樣的亂象，還是有一些新聞頻傳，但是我們知道營養午餐依照地方制度法，其實事權在地方。另外，在過去其實中央有一些補助，但是今年我想要問次長最重要的一件事情，我們在11月之後發生了財劃法，請問這對我們的營養午餐，不管是地方的一些營養午餐補助，請問會不會有重大的影響？"],["張廖次長萬堅：當然是會有啦！所以我們就在想因為財劃法這樣的修，對於像國民教育階段，需要中央大量補助的這些國教補助款，過去雖然在審查的過程裡面有說一般補助款不能減少，但事實上，我們有很多地方的補助是透過計畫來達成政策的目的。"],["郭委員昱晴：是。"],["張廖次長萬堅：譬如我們希望孩子吃得好、吃得安全、吃得營養，當然像章Q的補助，從106年上路到現在，已經補助到一年38億。像弱勢孩童要讓他吃得飽，那要協助地方政府去補助他們，從91年到現在也陸續補助到每年21億。像廚房設備不足，偏鄉的地方校長常常要開著發財車到山下採購一個禮拜，像這樣子的新聞，我們都看到了，那這幾年來，陸續也在委員的關心下，我們編列的經費，中央廚房每年也都達到了15億，所以每年我們不算餐費的補助，光是這方面的補助其實已經高達74億。","那財劃法的衝擊對國教補助款的影響到底有多大？我想我們也在做內部的謹慎評估，但是對於修法會再增加負擔跟補助的部分，我們是真的覺得不跟地方政府攤開來談，事實上修了再怎麼樣好的法，我們怎麼樣來落實，會變成將來一個……我們是不希望看到中央地方在互推，我想讓孩子吃得好，我剛才說過那是一個甜蜜的負擔，中央跟地方一定要合作、一定要來談，不能說……"],["郭委員昱晴：所以中央跟地方目前其實是還沒有達到共識？"],["張廖次長萬堅：不能說我們錢沒了，錢被拿走了三成、28%，結果地方增加了，我們又要去負擔，又沒有那個能力，然後地方又說他們沒辦法接手，這樣子就真的不是我們樂見的。"],["郭委員昱晴：尤其是我們看到有很多的委員提案，也包括我自己，其實我也特別從……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們都對委員的提案非常肯定。"],["郭委員昱晴：沒錯，就是從40班至少有一個營養師，我們希望能夠往下就是再擴增，比方說可能20班就至少要增加一位營養師員額的配置，也因為財劃法……"],["張廖次長萬堅：其實營養師陸續這幾年都有在增加，尤其偏鄉或者有些地方需要，其實我們每年陸續透過一般補助款，或者透過計畫都在增加，補了80%，幾乎已經達到了。"],["郭委員昱晴：所以光是我們的財劃法到目前為止，其實我們不知道對所謂的營養午餐會有多重大的影響，目前有沒有一個時程是說我們跟地方要怎麼樣來大家把事權講好，到底是要五五分，還是要三七分，還是要八二分？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我想委員也知道，在這樣的氣氛下，教育部我們會很強力的來捍衛這個預算，但是要跟地方談，我剛才提過了，有些縣市對於它所獲配的財源，它不見得很滿意，中央說我們要收回這個補助款，希望由地方負擔，它也不會那麼容易答應，我舉個例子，臺南現在的國立高中還是我們國立的，其他的六都裡面大概有四都已經收回了，臺南會願意嗎？臺南不願意，我們怎麼辦？像臺北市錢比較多，或許它會願意，比較好談，那新北會願意嗎？有些偏鄉的補助，所以這個我們要儘速來溝通，也希望財劃法的影響能夠……"],["郭委員昱晴：把影響降到最低啦！"],["張廖次長萬堅：明確一點，因為現在……"],["郭委員昱晴：因為孩子在學校的營養，其實真的是靠營養午餐。"],["張廖次長萬堅：現在行政院也在做憲法救濟，剛才委員已經提過說覆議已經過了，那行政救濟如何，如果真的對我們財源的影響不大，我們當然不樂見還要透過跟地方協商，我們會很大方的就補助啦！就像過去這幾年一樣。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，那我們希望能夠，就是因為財劃法的關係，然後在營養午餐的部分，我們其實不打折，還能夠給孩子更安全，然後給家長也放心，好嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：謝謝委員的關心。"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝次長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝郭昱晴委員質詢，官員請回座。","接著請陳秀寳委員繼續質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-3","speakers":["葛如鈞","洪孟楷","王育敏","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","陳秀寳","葉元之","柯志恩","萬美玲","林沛祥","林宜瑾","劉書彬","郭昱晴","范雲","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張雅琳","吳沛憶","林倩綺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李彥秀","吳思瑤","李坤城","陳培瑜"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「學校供餐法草案」：(一) 審查委員范雲等16人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(二) 審\n查委員馬文君等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、 (三) 審查委員魯明哲等24人擬具「學校供餐\n法草案」案、(四) 審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(五) 審查委員洪孟楷等\n20 人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、 ( 六 ) 審查委員黃健豪等 20 人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、\n( 七) 審查委員楊瓊瓔等21 人擬具「學校供餐條例草案」案、 ( 八) 審查委員林倩綺等 21 人擬具\n「學校午餐及營養促進條例草案」案、 ( 九 ) 審查委員鍾佳濱等 17 人擬具「學校午餐法草案」\n案、(十) 審查委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育法草案」案、(十一) 審查委員張雅\n琳等17人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育法草案」案、(十二) 審查委員柯志恩等21人擬具「學校午\n餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、(十三) 審查委員陳培瑜等26人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育條例草\n案」案、(十四) 審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「高級中等以下學校及幼兒園午餐供餐法草案」案、\n(十五) 審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草案」案、(十六) 審查委員葉元之等\n20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草案」案、(十七) 審查委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「學校飲食法草\n案」案、(十八) 審查委員林宜瑾等33人擬具「學校飲食法草案」案、(十九) 審查委員劉建國等\n17人擬具「學校飲食教育法草案」案、(二十) 審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「學校營養飲食供餐\n法草案」案、(二十一) 審查委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「高級中等以下學校供餐及飲食教育條例草\n案」案、(二十二) 審查委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」\n案、(二十三) 審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案（僅進行詢答）；二、審\n查「運動產業發展條例」：(一) 審查委員柯志恩等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及\n第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(二) 審查委員張智倫等 18 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(三) 審查委員洪孟楷等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第\n二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(四) 審查委員王鴻薇等 19 人擬具「運動產業發展\n條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(五) 審查委員林倩綺等22人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例第四條條文修正草案」案、(六) 審查委員沈發惠等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二\n條條文修正草案」案、(七) 審查委員許宇甄等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二\n十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二條、第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」、(九)審查委員楊瓊瓔等27人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1142901_00003"}}}