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83.754, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 83.754, \"end\": 83.954, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 83.954, \"end\": 84.154, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 84.154, \"end\": 84.394, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 84.394, \"end\": 84.955, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 84.955, \"end\": 85.155, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 85.155, \"end\": 85.175, \"score\": 0.115}]}, {\"start\": 85.655, \"end\": 109.28, \"text\": \"那委派辦理的話學校就沒有設營養師他的營養師是設在委外的單位那委外單位的營養師我不能說他營養師有問題但是因為他是委辦單位設的營養師關係比較近當然有時候有可能會睜一隻眼閉一隻眼第三個團散的部分就是不是自立廚房團散的部分那這個營養師的規範也是在團散的業者或便當業者自己訂定\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 85.655, \"end\": 85.795, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 85.795, \"end\": 86.015, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"派\", \"start\": 86.015, \"end\": 86.155, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 86.155, \"end\": 86.275, \"score\": 0.974}, 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\"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,932 --> 00:00:24,000\n其實營養午餐這個真的非常重要其實我們在地方跑的時候常常也有小朋友或家長跟我們反映營養午餐的問題那當然好不好吃是另外一回事啦但重點是有的時候品質的把關這一塊大家其實有時候會提出一些憂心譬如說我現在給你看\n\n2\n00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:51,938\n這個圖啊當然這不是發生在我們新北市但是這是最近的事情成大南宮他們就發生說營養午餐裡面有豬扎銀絲捲捏出大半碗油那其實這就牽涉到說我們營養午餐第一個品質它有沒有出現異物第二個就是它在營養上面有沒有做到那個不管在食材上面或者是在營養的分配上有沒有達到均衡那我現在先點出三個問題是現行的狀況的問題\n\n3\n00:00:54,580 --> 00:00:59,974\n那第一個問題就是我們因為按照現在的法規規定只有在40班以上\n\n4\n00:01:00,979 --> 00:01:25,175\n自辦的廚房才要設營養師自立廚房自辦的四十班以上才要有營養師但實際上市場應該很清楚啦現在四十班以上的學校也沒有那麼多啦用人會比較準啦對對對所以它不是全部都需要四十班以上第二個有一些是自立廚房可是它是委外辦理的\n\n5\n00:01:25,655 --> 00:01:49,280\n那委派辦理的話學校就沒有設營養師他的營養師是設在委外的單位那委外單位的營養師我不能說他營養師有問題但是因為他是委辦單位設的營養師關係比較近當然有時候有可能會睜一隻眼閉一隻眼第三個團散的部分就是不是自立廚房團散的部分那這個營養師的規範也是在團散的業者或便當業者自己訂定\n\n6\n00:01:50,140 --> 00:01:59,519\n那而且這個團戰業者他的營養師他有時候會去學校支援一些這個營養教育嘛那但是負擔也非常重\n\n7\n00:02:00,632 --> 00:02:19,734\n所以這其實都是現在的問題那現在呢有營養師的國中跟國小大概只有佔百分之二十不到其實比例也是蠻低的所以我們訂這個專法其實是很有必要啦訂定專法把營養師這個重要的角色他的規範把它訂定清楚然後第二個是\n\n8\n00:02:20,851 --> 00:02:38,498\n第二個是說針對午餐祕書還有儲供等等相關規範我覺得這個這個應該是應該要做的嘛對吧市長你應該也是同意嘛不過有一個點因為好像現在按照那個你們即將提出來的版本是不是說如果是\n\n9\n00:02:39,713 --> 00:03:06,594\n除公假設是自辦的自立廚房如果是委外的話它是德設營養學校德設營養師現在的規劃是這樣嘛德就是可以或不可以都可以嘛對不對公辦公營是因啦那因為剛才委員有提到其他的話就德那但是就是說其實委員我們我可以講一下嗎就我們114年度法定應該聘的營養師是474啦那其實我們也知道不足\n\n10\n00:03:07,094 --> 00:03:26,525\n所以我們實際拚了681,就超過法規最低的一個標準那偏鄉的也在加碼,那有些還有用專案經理人的方式來取代這個角色公辦公營我現在沒有要跟你討論這個啦,我跟你討論的是自立廚房但是委外的,是用德啦其實我們是建議說應該也是要因啦\n\n11\n00:03:27,405 --> 00:03:56,019\n因為你學校必須要有營養師去跟他對接嘛對不對不然的話剛剛次長其實你也提到嘛關係比較近嘛都是比較偏對所以是不是可以考慮把委外的部分也改成因就是讓學校可以多一個監督跟把關的機制然後第二個就是說像團散業者有時候你也知道有些能夠供應這麼多學校跟學童的團散業者其實非常有限\n\n12\n00:03:56,772 --> 00:04:14,155\n那學校其實有時候對於他們當然是可以按照合約去監督啦可是在人力上面如果有一個專職的營養師去跟他對接其實對學校的營養網午餐的把關也會比較好比較好一點對不對好不好這個市長不知道說能不能朝那個方向去努力啦朝那個方向就是經費會再增加\n\n13\n00:04:15,276 --> 00:04:24,165\n因為我覺得真的是你看光是公辦公營的營養是增加了我覺得我們先來考慮說該不該做這個事情就是說我們該不該站在學童的營養健康這個角度去探討說該不該做這個事情那如果說大家覺得該做\n\n14\n00:04:33,214 --> 00:04:55,394\n那該做的話當然經費大家來討論嘛譬如說你說財化法通過之後什麼中央地方各負擔多少那大家可以去談啦可是我們要先確定說這個事情是該做或不該做嘛不應該對啊這部分主要增加會在地方啦那地方他會認為得或因我們也會尊重他們的意識我聽說很多地方其實建議說應該改因那時候是因為都中央補助啦\n\n15\n00:04:58,318 --> 00:05:24,614\n我們不能夠說大家要我出錢我就覺得不要做不要我出錢就應該要做那到底是該做不該做嗎我們要站在學校的角度或學生的角度去想這個事情我們先確定該不該做那我個人是覺得該做啦你也該做好不好你看我們秀出來這個圖嘛捏出大半碗油我們會把那個方案列出來版本的方案就是說得跟因多少錢那我們問地方中央一起來\n\n16\n00:05:25,214 --> 00:05:51,845\n我相信如果有營養師的話像類似我們現在PET上面看到照片的狀況會減少很多啦對這是管理的問題啦對啊你有營養師當然就是多一個人去管理嘛多一個管理嘛這絕對是比較好的啦而且營養部分他可以把關嘛然後第二個同樣也是學校人力的問題我跟次長或者署長請教一下啦因為我上個會期我們都很關心那個國中的校安人力國中的校安人力那之前\n\n17\n00:05:52,785 --> 00:06:16,797\n國教署的回應是說有增設有增設一個副組長的津貼副組長的津貼那後來我們也有跟教育部不斷的溝通嘛後來謝謝教育部啦願意後來也針對國中部分有增設一個那時候叫做學務創新能力啦實際上就是校安人員啦應該是這樣啦可是去年今年一月啦今年一月份那時候是回覆我們是說\n\n18\n00:06:18,358 --> 00:06:31,153\n現在是朝那方面研議然後會跟地方政府討論然後再簽辦那我不知道說這個校安人員的最新的有沒有確定的方案呢現在有兩個方案在跟地方協調我們是不是請那個\n\n19\n00:06:33,135 --> 00:06:47,653\n謝謝委員關心委員關心從去年到現在他的進度是這樣我簡單的回覆兩個地方第一個是委員講了之後也會回委員我們的方向那在3月4號的時候把這個方向變成具體的跟地方政府也溝通過\n\n20\n00:06:48,494 --> 00:07:13,171\n由學校自己選那兩種方法之一種那現在也是一樣在地方的這個才化法因為它叫年年要這樣實施所以有一些溝通允許我們跟地方政府再說服他們這是有必要而且經費上我們會一起來努力市長跟市長其實我們在這邊我們大家都是討論教育問題大家不用動不動就把才化法搬出來所以現在的做法到底是怎麼樣\n\n21\n00:07:14,311 --> 00:07:18,516\n組長可不可以很明確就現在已經確定兩個確定已經兩個方案114學年兩個方案學校會選好那各學校現在是主要是選擇偵測副組長比較多還是選擇專職的校安人力比較多以你現在溝通的狀況\n\n22\n00:07:31,889 --> 00:07:59,218\n以我們3月4號溝通之後縣市他還在跟學校做磋商以我前天調查的情況還沒有明確讓我們知道學校選擇情形跟委員會報但3月4號我們已經跟地方政府說明過了說明過後他足及會跟他所屬的比如說30個學校120個國中等等要做說明及選擇那個還沒有選擇完還沒選擇完所以到時候地方政府的教育局會整理完之後會報給你這邊嘛對不對然後你再統一簽報嘛是是是\n\n23\n00:08:00,939 --> 00:08:11,017\n對不對好那所以就是有在進行當中啦有有謝謝然後再來跟也跟那個次長問另外一個議題這個議題我那是前一陣子的議題但是我\n\n24\n00:08:13,411 --> 00:08:42,183\n個人非常好奇啦就是那個時候教育部開了一個性評會議把林玉婷列為這個性別身份資格選手的參賽的權益保障措施我先請教一下啦我實在不太懂為什麼當時啊討論性別身份資格的這個權益保障會以林玉婷為例因為就我們的立場我們全台灣的人都認為說林玉婷沒有什麼性別的問題啊她就是女性啊她就是女性嘛她只是說\n\n25\n00:08:43,283 --> 00:08:58,283\n國際權總不知道是為什麼去質疑他全台灣都是支持他就是女性他絕對沒有問題可是為什麼在討論性別身份資格的時候會以林玉婷為例到底當時你們的想法到底是什麼\n\n26\n00:08:58,663 --> 00:09:14,003\n我請署長來回答報告委員其實這個是當時我們在這件新聞出來之後呢其實我們的教育部本部這邊也做了一個新聞澄清當時的會議的確是討論林玉婷的事件在奧運我們體育署做了哪些努力去保護她免於網路霸凌\n\n27\n00:09:14,523 --> 00:09:32,415\n但是呢在當下有委員也在結束的時候也順帶一提說我們現在全中運也是有這些的類似跨性別一些性別的一些議題那也希望體育署好好去處理所以在會議紀錄上面他們把它給混淆了其實是兩件事情所以這部分我們也修正了\n\n28\n00:09:33,737 --> 00:09:51,683\n所以第二點宣導跨性別運動選手性別身份的認定這個不是指林玉婷這是另外一件事會議紀錄林玉婷但是會議紀錄這樣一出來因為你的題目是以權及選手林玉婷而立大家以為是個案嘛所以就認為說你是不是認為他是跨性別是吧\n\n29\n00:09:52,903 --> 00:10:20,494\n我說外界是這樣覺得嘛後來我們做修正但我覺得你們的澄清真的不夠清楚啦為什麼因為你看喔你們後來就是有去修正那個會議記錄你修正會議記錄前面一頁你修正會議記錄呢你就是把一堆全部都刪掉了然後就說決定洽息請紀御署繼續維護選手參賽權益你就把它改成一句話\n\n30\n00:10:21,950 --> 00:10:41,578\n可是你看喔那時候人家問你們說為什麼你要去更改會議紀錄你的說法是什麼你們的說法是說那個新聞是說教育部認錯文字簡略導致誤解文字簡略導致誤解結果你去修改會議紀錄你修到更簡略你本來是三段\n\n31\n00:10:42,622 --> 00:11:03,232\n然後你覺得太簡略太簡略你應該要像剛剛次長跟署長這樣子解釋嘛對不對就是比如說題目把它改掉啊題目說我們其實在討論性別然後把林玉婷的名字拿掉嘛把林玉婷的名字拿掉然後比如說第一點你回到那個上一頁會議記錄好不好比如說你如果我是我要改的話\n\n32\n00:11:04,352 --> 00:11:22,844\n我第一個喔性別身分資格選手參賽權益保障措施我就會把以權級選手林玉婷拿掉對不對因為不是以她為個案嘛這個主題不是她嘛她只是決定一二三其中的一個嘛所以應該是林玉婷不要出現在題目上\n\n33\n00:11:23,504 --> 00:11:40,939\n然後一然後二然後三然後提到就是說哎呀林玉婷因為這個事情被攻擊那以後呢如果我們再遇到的話我們應該怎麼support她她應該在小點裡面她不是在大體裡面然後結果你們的修改方式是她還是在大體裡面\n\n34\n00:11:42,401 --> 00:11:57,635\n然後決定變一句話可是你們因為一般去改那個會議紀錄是比較罕見啦但是我覺得改我也支持為什麼因為不要造成誤會可是你改你改得更奇怪你還是把林玉婷放在題目上面\n\n35\n00:12:00,517 --> 00:12:09,063\n我是建議說你們再去改啦好不好再改一個版本啦因為這個東西現在網路上還是看得到下次先會不是因為你真的你現在我們去看我們現在去看我們還是會覺得說奇怪了為什麼\n\n36\n00:12:13,906 --> 00:12:34,841\n你討論性別身份你要講林玉婷林玉婷到底是有什麼性別身份問題我們還是會這樣子認定啊所以請你把林玉婷拿掉然後你下面在說明的地方你就前面就講跟林玉婷無關的東西嘛你最後一段就說有委員提到林玉婷類似發生這樣被攻擊事件下一次我們應該怎麼去\n\n37\n00:12:36,002 --> 00:13:03,632\nSupport類似的狀況你應該要這樣子修正啦好我們就請委員會這邊來我就覺得因為你越改越大家覺得你越改越奇怪當時談的問題跟這個問題是兩件事嘛剛好那個關心林玉婷的委員提到她的事情我知道我知道可是你們次長你講的這個東西呈現在書面白紙黑字就不是這樣所以既然你要改我建議說你再改一個版本\n\n38\n00:13:04,372 --> 00:13:10,237\n不要讓正義的東西意在網路上被全部的人看到好我們會再提會議把它修正OK好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6932\t24000\t其實營養午餐這個真的非常重要其實我們在地方跑的時候常常也有小朋友或家長跟我們反映營養午餐的問題那當然好不好吃是另外一回事啦但重點是有的時候品質的把關這一塊大家其實有時候會提出一些憂心譬如說我現在給你看\n25000\t51938\t這個圖啊當然這不是發生在我們新北市但是這是最近的事情成大南宮他們就發生說營養午餐裡面有豬扎銀絲捲捏出大半碗油那其實這就牽涉到說我們營養午餐第一個品質它有沒有出現異物第二個就是它在營養上面有沒有做到那個不管在食材上面或者是在營養的分配上有沒有達到均衡那我現在先點出三個問題是現行的狀況的問題\n54580\t59974\t那第一個問題就是我們因為按照現在的法規規定只有在40班以上\n60979\t85175\t自辦的廚房才要設營養師自立廚房自辦的四十班以上才要有營養師但實際上市場應該很清楚啦現在四十班以上的學校也沒有那麼多啦用人會比較準啦對對對所以它不是全部都需要四十班以上第二個有一些是自立廚房可是它是委外辦理的\n85655\t109280\t那委派辦理的話學校就沒有設營養師他的營養師是設在委外的單位那委外單位的營養師我不能說他營養師有問題但是因為他是委辦單位設的營養師關係比較近當然有時候有可能會睜一隻眼閉一隻眼第三個團散的部分就是不是自立廚房團散的部分那這個營養師的規範也是在團散的業者或便當業者自己訂定\n110140\t119519\t那而且這個團戰業者他的營養師他有時候會去學校支援一些這個營養教育嘛那但是負擔也非常重\n120632\t139734\t所以這其實都是現在的問題那現在呢有營養師的國中跟國小大概只有佔百分之二十不到其實比例也是蠻低的所以我們訂這個專法其實是很有必要啦訂定專法把營養師這個重要的角色他的規範把它訂定清楚然後第二個是\n140851\t158498\t第二個是說針對午餐祕書還有儲供等等相關規範我覺得這個這個應該是應該要做的嘛對吧市長你應該也是同意嘛不過有一個點因為好像現在按照那個你們即將提出來的版本是不是說如果是\n159713\t186594\t除公假設是自辦的自立廚房如果是委外的話它是德設營養學校德設營養師現在的規劃是這樣嘛德就是可以或不可以都可以嘛對不對公辦公營是因啦那因為剛才委員有提到其他的話就德那但是就是說其實委員我們我可以講一下嗎就我們114年度法定應該聘的營養師是474啦那其實我們也知道不足\n187094\t206525\t所以我們實際拚了681,就超過法規最低的一個標準那偏鄉的也在加碼,那有些還有用專案經理人的方式來取代這個角色公辦公營我現在沒有要跟你討論這個啦,我跟你討論的是自立廚房但是委外的,是用德啦其實我們是建議說應該也是要因啦\n207405\t236019\t因為你學校必須要有營養師去跟他對接嘛對不對不然的話剛剛次長其實你也提到嘛關係比較近嘛都是比較偏對所以是不是可以考慮把委外的部分也改成因就是讓學校可以多一個監督跟把關的機制然後第二個就是說像團散業者有時候你也知道有些能夠供應這麼多學校跟學童的團散業者其實非常有限\n236772\t254155\t那學校其實有時候對於他們當然是可以按照合約去監督啦可是在人力上面如果有一個專職的營養師去跟他對接其實對學校的營養網午餐的把關也會比較好比較好一點對不對好不好這個市長不知道說能不能朝那個方向去努力啦朝那個方向就是經費會再增加\n255276\t264165\t因為我覺得真的是你看光是公辦公營的營養是增加了我覺得我們先來考慮說該不該做這個事情就是說我們該不該站在學童的營養健康這個角度去探討說該不該做這個事情那如果說大家覺得該做\n273214\t295394\t那該做的話當然經費大家來討論嘛譬如說你說財化法通過之後什麼中央地方各負擔多少那大家可以去談啦可是我們要先確定說這個事情是該做或不該做嘛不應該對啊這部分主要增加會在地方啦那地方他會認為得或因我們也會尊重他們的意識我聽說很多地方其實建議說應該改因那時候是因為都中央補助啦\n298318\t324614\t我們不能夠說大家要我出錢我就覺得不要做不要我出錢就應該要做那到底是該做不該做嗎我們要站在學校的角度或學生的角度去想這個事情我們先確定該不該做那我個人是覺得該做啦你也該做好不好你看我們秀出來這個圖嘛捏出大半碗油我們會把那個方案列出來版本的方案就是說得跟因多少錢那我們問地方中央一起來\n325214\t351845\t我相信如果有營養師的話像類似我們現在PET上面看到照片的狀況會減少很多啦對這是管理的問題啦對啊你有營養師當然就是多一個人去管理嘛多一個管理嘛這絕對是比較好的啦而且營養部分他可以把關嘛然後第二個同樣也是學校人力的問題我跟次長或者署長請教一下啦因為我上個會期我們都很關心那個國中的校安人力國中的校安人力那之前\n352785\t376797\t國教署的回應是說有增設有增設一個副組長的津貼副組長的津貼那後來我們也有跟教育部不斷的溝通嘛後來謝謝教育部啦 願意後來也針對國中部分有增設一個那時候叫做學務創新能力啦實際上就是校安人員啦應該是這樣啦可是去年 今年一月啦今年一月份那時候是回覆我們是說\n378358\t391153\t現在是朝那方面研議然後會跟地方政府討論然後再簽辦那我不知道說這個校安人員的最新的有沒有確定的方案呢現在有兩個方案在跟地方協調我們是不是請那個\n393135\t407653\t謝謝委員關心委員關心從去年到現在他的進度是這樣我簡單的回覆兩個地方第一個是委員講了之後也會回委員我們的方向那在3月4號的時候把這個方向變成具體的跟地方政府也溝通過\n408494\t433171\t由學校自己選那兩種方法之一種那現在也是一樣在地方的這個才化法因為它叫年年要這樣實施所以有一些溝通允許我們跟地方政府再說服他們這是有必要而且經費上我們會一起來努力市長跟市長其實我們在這邊我們大家都是討論教育問題大家不用動不動就把才化法搬出來所以現在的做法到底是怎麼樣\n434311\t438516\t組長可不可以很明確就現在已經確定兩個確定已經兩個方案114學年兩個方案學校會選好那各學校現在是主要是選擇偵測副組長比較多還是選擇專職的校安人力比較多以你現在溝通的狀況\n451889\t479218\t以我們3月4號溝通之後縣市他還在跟學校做磋商以我前天調查的情況還沒有明確讓我們知道學校選擇情形跟委員會報但3月4號我們已經跟地方政府說明過了說明過後他足及會跟他所屬的比如說30個學校120個國中等等要做說明及選擇那個還沒有選擇完還沒選擇完所以到時候地方政府的教育局會整理完之後會報給你這邊嘛對不對然後你再統一簽報嘛是是是\n480939\t491017\t對不對好那所以就是有在進行當中啦有有謝謝然後再來跟也跟那個次長問另外一個議題這個議題我那是前一陣子的議題但是我\n493411\t522183\t個人非常好奇啦就是那個時候教育部開了一個性評會議把林玉婷列為這個性別身份資格選手的參賽的權益保障措施我先請教一下啦我實在不太懂為什麼當時啊討論性別身份資格的這個權益保障會以林玉婷為例因為就我們的立場我們全台灣的人都認為說林玉婷沒有什麼性別的問題啊她就是女性啊她就是女性嘛她只是說\n523283\t538283\t國際權總不知道是為什麼去質疑他全台灣都是支持他就是女性他絕對沒有問題可是為什麼在討論性別身份資格的時候會以林玉婷為例到底當時你們的想法到底是什麼\n538663\t554003\t我請署長來回答報告委員其實這個是當時我們在這件新聞出來之後呢其實我們的教育部本部這邊也做了一個新聞澄清當時的會議的確是討論林玉婷的事件在奧運我們體育署做了哪些努力去保護她免於網路霸凌\n554523\t572415\t但是呢在當下有委員也在結束的時候也順帶一提說我們現在全中運也是有這些的類似跨性別一些性別的一些議題那也希望體育署好好去處理所以在會議紀錄上面他們把它給混淆了其實是兩件事情所以這部分我們也修正了\n573737\t591683\t所以第二點宣導跨性別運動選手性別身份的認定這個不是指林玉婷這是另外一件事會議紀錄林玉婷但是會議紀錄這樣一出來因為你的題目是以權及選手林玉婷而立大家以為是個案嘛所以就認為說你是不是認為他是跨性別是吧\n592903\t620494\t我說外界是這樣覺得嘛後來我們做修正但我覺得你們的澄清真的不夠清楚啦為什麼 因為你看喔你們後來就是有去修正那個會議記錄你修正會議記錄前面一頁你修正會議記錄呢你就是把一堆全部都刪掉了然後就說決定洽息請紀御署繼續維護選手參賽權益你就把它改成一句話\n621950\t641578\t可是你看喔那時候人家問你們說為什麼你要去更改會議紀錄你的說法是什麼你們的說法是說那個新聞是說教育部認錯文字簡略導致誤解文字簡略導致誤解結果你去修改會議紀錄你修到更簡略你本來是三段\n642622\t663232\t然後你覺得太簡略太簡略你應該要像剛剛次長跟署長這樣子解釋嘛對不對就是比如說題目把它改掉啊題目說我們其實在討論性別然後把林玉婷的名字拿掉嘛把林玉婷的名字拿掉然後比如說第一點你回到那個上一頁會議記錄好不好比如說你如果我是我要改的話\n664352\t682844\t我第一個喔性別身分資格選手參賽權益保障措施我就會把以權級選手林玉婷拿掉對不對因為不是以她為個案嘛這個主題不是她嘛她只是決定一二三其中的一個嘛所以應該是林玉婷不要出現在題目上\n683504\t700939\t然後一然後二然後三然後提到就是說哎呀林玉婷因為這個事情被攻擊那以後呢如果我們再遇到的話我們應該怎麼support她她應該在小點裡面她不是在大體裡面然後結果你們的修改方式是她還是在大體裡面\n702401\t717635\t然後決定變一句話可是你們因為一般去改那個會議紀錄是比較罕見啦但是我覺得改我也支持為什麼因為不要造成誤會可是你改你改得更奇怪你還是把林玉婷放在題目上面\n720517\t729063\t我是建議說你們再去改啦好不好再改一個版本啦因為這個東西現在網路上還是看得到下次先會不是因為你真的你現在我們去看我們現在去看我們還是會覺得說奇怪了為什麼\n733906\t754841\t你討論性別身份你要講林玉婷林玉婷到底是有什麼性別身份問題我們還是會這樣子認定啊所以請你把林玉婷拿掉然後你下面在說明的地方你就前面就講跟林玉婷無關的東西嘛你最後一段就說有委員提到林玉婷類似發生這樣被攻擊事件下一次我們應該怎麼去\n756002\t783632\tSupport類似的狀況你應該要這樣子修正啦好 我們就請委員會這邊來我就覺得因為你越改越大家覺得你越改越奇怪當時談的問題跟這個問題是兩件事嘛剛好那個關心林玉婷的委員提到她的事情我知道我知道可是你們次長你講的這個東西呈現在書面白紙黑字就不是這樣所以既然你要改我建議說你再改一個版本\n784372\t790237\t不要讓正義的東西 意在網路上被全部的人看到好 我們會再提會議把它修正OK 好 謝謝\n","txt":"其實營養午餐這個真的非常重要其實我們在地方跑的時候常常也有小朋友或家長跟我們反映營養午餐的問題那當然好不好吃是另外一回事啦但重點是有的時候品質的把關這一塊大家其實有時候會提出一些憂心譬如說我現在給你看\n這個圖啊當然這不是發生在我們新北市但是這是最近的事情成大南宮他們就發生說營養午餐裡面有豬扎銀絲捲捏出大半碗油那其實這就牽涉到說我們營養午餐第一個品質它有沒有出現異物第二個就是它在營養上面有沒有做到那個不管在食材上面或者是在營養的分配上有沒有達到均衡那我現在先點出三個問題是現行的狀況的問題\n那第一個問題就是我們因為按照現在的法規規定只有在40班以上\n自辦的廚房才要設營養師自立廚房自辦的四十班以上才要有營養師但實際上市場應該很清楚啦現在四十班以上的學校也沒有那麼多啦用人會比較準啦對對對所以它不是全部都需要四十班以上第二個有一些是自立廚房可是它是委外辦理的\n那委派辦理的話學校就沒有設營養師他的營養師是設在委外的單位那委外單位的營養師我不能說他營養師有問題但是因為他是委辦單位設的營養師關係比較近當然有時候有可能會睜一隻眼閉一隻眼第三個團散的部分就是不是自立廚房團散的部分那這個營養師的規範也是在團散的業者或便當業者自己訂定\n那而且這個團戰業者他的營養師他有時候會去學校支援一些這個營養教育嘛那但是負擔也非常重\n所以這其實都是現在的問題那現在呢有營養師的國中跟國小大概只有佔百分之二十不到其實比例也是蠻低的所以我們訂這個專法其實是很有必要啦訂定專法把營養師這個重要的角色他的規範把它訂定清楚然後第二個是\n第二個是說針對午餐祕書還有儲供等等相關規範我覺得這個這個應該是應該要做的嘛對吧市長你應該也是同意嘛不過有一個點因為好像現在按照那個你們即將提出來的版本是不是說如果是\n除公假設是自辦的自立廚房如果是委外的話它是德設營養學校德設營養師現在的規劃是這樣嘛德就是可以或不可以都可以嘛對不對公辦公營是因啦那因為剛才委員有提到其他的話就德那但是就是說其實委員我們我可以講一下嗎就我們114年度法定應該聘的營養師是474啦那其實我們也知道不足\n所以我們實際拚了681,就超過法規最低的一個標準那偏鄉的也在加碼,那有些還有用專案經理人的方式來取代這個角色公辦公營我現在沒有要跟你討論這個啦,我跟你討論的是自立廚房但是委外的,是用德啦其實我們是建議說應該也是要因啦\n因為你學校必須要有營養師去跟他對接嘛對不對不然的話剛剛次長其實你也提到嘛關係比較近嘛都是比較偏對所以是不是可以考慮把委外的部分也改成因就是讓學校可以多一個監督跟把關的機制然後第二個就是說像團散業者有時候你也知道有些能夠供應這麼多學校跟學童的團散業者其實非常有限\n那學校其實有時候對於他們當然是可以按照合約去監督啦可是在人力上面如果有一個專職的營養師去跟他對接其實對學校的營養網午餐的把關也會比較好比較好一點對不對好不好這個市長不知道說能不能朝那個方向去努力啦朝那個方向就是經費會再增加\n因為我覺得真的是你看光是公辦公營的營養是增加了我覺得我們先來考慮說該不該做這個事情就是說我們該不該站在學童的營養健康這個角度去探討說該不該做這個事情那如果說大家覺得該做\n那該做的話當然經費大家來討論嘛譬如說你說財化法通過之後什麼中央地方各負擔多少那大家可以去談啦可是我們要先確定說這個事情是該做或不該做嘛不應該對啊這部分主要增加會在地方啦那地方他會認為得或因我們也會尊重他們的意識我聽說很多地方其實建議說應該改因那時候是因為都中央補助啦\n我們不能夠說大家要我出錢我就覺得不要做不要我出錢就應該要做那到底是該做不該做嗎我們要站在學校的角度或學生的角度去想這個事情我們先確定該不該做那我個人是覺得該做啦你也該做好不好你看我們秀出來這個圖嘛捏出大半碗油我們會把那個方案列出來版本的方案就是說得跟因多少錢那我們問地方中央一起來\n我相信如果有營養師的話像類似我們現在PET上面看到照片的狀況會減少很多啦對這是管理的問題啦對啊你有營養師當然就是多一個人去管理嘛多一個管理嘛這絕對是比較好的啦而且營養部分他可以把關嘛然後第二個同樣也是學校人力的問題我跟次長或者署長請教一下啦因為我上個會期我們都很關心那個國中的校安人力國中的校安人力那之前\n國教署的回應是說有增設有增設一個副組長的津貼副組長的津貼那後來我們也有跟教育部不斷的溝通嘛後來謝謝教育部啦 願意後來也針對國中部分有增設一個那時候叫做學務創新能力啦實際上就是校安人員啦應該是這樣啦可是去年 今年一月啦今年一月份那時候是回覆我們是說\n現在是朝那方面研議然後會跟地方政府討論然後再簽辦那我不知道說這個校安人員的最新的有沒有確定的方案呢現在有兩個方案在跟地方協調我們是不是請那個\n謝謝委員關心委員關心從去年到現在他的進度是這樣我簡單的回覆兩個地方第一個是委員講了之後也會回委員我們的方向那在3月4號的時候把這個方向變成具體的跟地方政府也溝通過\n由學校自己選那兩種方法之一種那現在也是一樣在地方的這個才化法因為它叫年年要這樣實施所以有一些溝通允許我們跟地方政府再說服他們這是有必要而且經費上我們會一起來努力市長跟市長其實我們在這邊我們大家都是討論教育問題大家不用動不動就把才化法搬出來所以現在的做法到底是怎麼樣\n組長可不可以很明確就現在已經確定兩個確定已經兩個方案114學年兩個方案學校會選好那各學校現在是主要是選擇偵測副組長比較多還是選擇專職的校安人力比較多以你現在溝通的狀況\n以我們3月4號溝通之後縣市他還在跟學校做磋商以我前天調查的情況還沒有明確讓我們知道學校選擇情形跟委員會報但3月4號我們已經跟地方政府說明過了說明過後他足及會跟他所屬的比如說30個學校120個國中等等要做說明及選擇那個還沒有選擇完還沒選擇完所以到時候地方政府的教育局會整理完之後會報給你這邊嘛對不對然後你再統一簽報嘛是是是\n對不對好那所以就是有在進行當中啦有有謝謝然後再來跟也跟那個次長問另外一個議題這個議題我那是前一陣子的議題但是我\n個人非常好奇啦就是那個時候教育部開了一個性評會議把林玉婷列為這個性別身份資格選手的參賽的權益保障措施我先請教一下啦我實在不太懂為什麼當時啊討論性別身份資格的這個權益保障會以林玉婷為例因為就我們的立場我們全台灣的人都認為說林玉婷沒有什麼性別的問題啊她就是女性啊她就是女性嘛她只是說\n國際權總不知道是為什麼去質疑他全台灣都是支持他就是女性他絕對沒有問題可是為什麼在討論性別身份資格的時候會以林玉婷為例到底當時你們的想法到底是什麼\n我請署長來回答報告委員其實這個是當時我們在這件新聞出來之後呢其實我們的教育部本部這邊也做了一個新聞澄清當時的會議的確是討論林玉婷的事件在奧運我們體育署做了哪些努力去保護她免於網路霸凌\n但是呢在當下有委員也在結束的時候也順帶一提說我們現在全中運也是有這些的類似跨性別一些性別的一些議題那也希望體育署好好去處理所以在會議紀錄上面他們把它給混淆了其實是兩件事情所以這部分我們也修正了\n所以第二點宣導跨性別運動選手性別身份的認定這個不是指林玉婷這是另外一件事會議紀錄林玉婷但是會議紀錄這樣一出來因為你的題目是以權及選手林玉婷而立大家以為是個案嘛所以就認為說你是不是認為他是跨性別是吧\n我說外界是這樣覺得嘛後來我們做修正但我覺得你們的澄清真的不夠清楚啦為什麼 因為你看喔你們後來就是有去修正那個會議記錄你修正會議記錄前面一頁你修正會議記錄呢你就是把一堆全部都刪掉了然後就說決定洽息請紀御署繼續維護選手參賽權益你就把它改成一句話\n可是你看喔那時候人家問你們說為什麼你要去更改會議紀錄你的說法是什麼你們的說法是說那個新聞是說教育部認錯文字簡略導致誤解文字簡略導致誤解結果你去修改會議紀錄你修到更簡略你本來是三段\n然後你覺得太簡略太簡略你應該要像剛剛次長跟署長這樣子解釋嘛對不對就是比如說題目把它改掉啊題目說我們其實在討論性別然後把林玉婷的名字拿掉嘛把林玉婷的名字拿掉然後比如說第一點你回到那個上一頁會議記錄好不好比如說你如果我是我要改的話\n我第一個喔性別身分資格選手參賽權益保障措施我就會把以權級選手林玉婷拿掉對不對因為不是以她為個案嘛這個主題不是她嘛她只是決定一二三其中的一個嘛所以應該是林玉婷不要出現在題目上\n然後一然後二然後三然後提到就是說哎呀林玉婷因為這個事情被攻擊那以後呢如果我們再遇到的話我們應該怎麼support她她應該在小點裡面她不是在大體裡面然後結果你們的修改方式是她還是在大體裡面\n然後決定變一句話可是你們因為一般去改那個會議紀錄是比較罕見啦但是我覺得改我也支持為什麼因為不要造成誤會可是你改你改得更奇怪你還是把林玉婷放在題目上面\n我是建議說你們再去改啦好不好再改一個版本啦因為這個東西現在網路上還是看得到下次先會不是因為你真的你現在我們去看我們現在去看我們還是會覺得說奇怪了為什麼\n你討論性別身份你要講林玉婷林玉婷到底是有什麼性別身份問題我們還是會這樣子認定啊所以請你把林玉婷拿掉然後你下面在說明的地方你就前面就講跟林玉婷無關的東西嘛你最後一段就說有委員提到林玉婷類似發生這樣被攻擊事件下一次我們應該怎麼去\nSupport類似的狀況你應該要這樣子修正啦好 我們就請委員會這邊來我就覺得因為你越改越大家覺得你越改越奇怪當時談的問題跟這個問題是兩件事嘛剛好那個關心林玉婷的委員提到她的事情我知道我知道可是你們次長你講的這個東西呈現在書面白紙黑字就不是這樣所以既然你要改我建議說你再改一個版本\n不要讓正義的東西 意在網路上被全部的人看到好 我們會再提會議把它修正OK 好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.932 --> 00:24.000\n其實營養午餐這個真的非常重要其實我們在地方跑的時候常常也有小朋友或家長跟我們反映營養午餐的問題那當然好不好吃是另外一回事啦但重點是有的時候品質的把關這一塊大家其實有時候會提出一些憂心譬如說我現在給你看\n\n00:25.000 --> 00:51.938\n這個圖啊當然這不是發生在我們新北市但是這是最近的事情成大南宮他們就發生說營養午餐裡面有豬扎銀絲捲捏出大半碗油那其實這就牽涉到說我們營養午餐第一個品質它有沒有出現異物第二個就是它在營養上面有沒有做到那個不管在食材上面或者是在營養的分配上有沒有達到均衡那我現在先點出三個問題是現行的狀況的問題\n\n00:54.580 --> 00:59.974\n那第一個問題就是我們因為按照現在的法規規定只有在40班以上\n\n01:00.979 --> 01:25.175\n自辦的廚房才要設營養師自立廚房自辦的四十班以上才要有營養師但實際上市場應該很清楚啦現在四十班以上的學校也沒有那麼多啦用人會比較準啦對對對所以它不是全部都需要四十班以上第二個有一些是自立廚房可是它是委外辦理的\n\n01:25.655 --> 01:49.280\n那委派辦理的話學校就沒有設營養師他的營養師是設在委外的單位那委外單位的營養師我不能說他營養師有問題但是因為他是委辦單位設的營養師關係比較近當然有時候有可能會睜一隻眼閉一隻眼第三個團散的部分就是不是自立廚房團散的部分那這個營養師的規範也是在團散的業者或便當業者自己訂定\n\n01:50.140 --> 01:59.519\n那而且這個團戰業者他的營養師他有時候會去學校支援一些這個營養教育嘛那但是負擔也非常重\n\n02:00.632 --> 02:19.734\n所以這其實都是現在的問題那現在呢有營養師的國中跟國小大概只有佔百分之二十不到其實比例也是蠻低的所以我們訂這個專法其實是很有必要啦訂定專法把營養師這個重要的角色他的規範把它訂定清楚然後第二個是\n\n02:20.851 --> 02:38.498\n第二個是說針對午餐祕書還有儲供等等相關規範我覺得這個這個應該是應該要做的嘛對吧市長你應該也是同意嘛不過有一個點因為好像現在按照那個你們即將提出來的版本是不是說如果是\n\n02:39.713 --> 03:06.594\n除公假設是自辦的自立廚房如果是委外的話它是德設營養學校德設營養師現在的規劃是這樣嘛德就是可以或不可以都可以嘛對不對公辦公營是因啦那因為剛才委員有提到其他的話就德那但是就是說其實委員我們我可以講一下嗎就我們114年度法定應該聘的營養師是474啦那其實我們也知道不足\n\n03:07.094 --> 03:26.525\n所以我們實際拚了681,就超過法規最低的一個標準那偏鄉的也在加碼,那有些還有用專案經理人的方式來取代這個角色公辦公營我現在沒有要跟你討論這個啦,我跟你討論的是自立廚房但是委外的,是用德啦其實我們是建議說應該也是要因啦\n\n03:27.405 --> 03:56.019\n因為你學校必須要有營養師去跟他對接嘛對不對不然的話剛剛次長其實你也提到嘛關係比較近嘛都是比較偏對所以是不是可以考慮把委外的部分也改成因就是讓學校可以多一個監督跟把關的機制然後第二個就是說像團散業者有時候你也知道有些能夠供應這麼多學校跟學童的團散業者其實非常有限\n\n03:56.772 --> 04:14.155\n那學校其實有時候對於他們當然是可以按照合約去監督啦可是在人力上面如果有一個專職的營養師去跟他對接其實對學校的營養網午餐的把關也會比較好比較好一點對不對好不好這個市長不知道說能不能朝那個方向去努力啦朝那個方向就是經費會再增加\n\n04:15.276 --> 04:24.165\n因為我覺得真的是你看光是公辦公營的營養是增加了我覺得我們先來考慮說該不該做這個事情就是說我們該不該站在學童的營養健康這個角度去探討說該不該做這個事情那如果說大家覺得該做\n\n04:33.214 --> 04:55.394\n那該做的話當然經費大家來討論嘛譬如說你說財化法通過之後什麼中央地方各負擔多少那大家可以去談啦可是我們要先確定說這個事情是該做或不該做嘛不應該對啊這部分主要增加會在地方啦那地方他會認為得或因我們也會尊重他們的意識我聽說很多地方其實建議說應該改因那時候是因為都中央補助啦\n\n04:58.318 --> 05:24.614\n我們不能夠說大家要我出錢我就覺得不要做不要我出錢就應該要做那到底是該做不該做嗎我們要站在學校的角度或學生的角度去想這個事情我們先確定該不該做那我個人是覺得該做啦你也該做好不好你看我們秀出來這個圖嘛捏出大半碗油我們會把那個方案列出來版本的方案就是說得跟因多少錢那我們問地方中央一起來\n\n05:25.214 --> 05:51.845\n我相信如果有營養師的話像類似我們現在PET上面看到照片的狀況會減少很多啦對這是管理的問題啦對啊你有營養師當然就是多一個人去管理嘛多一個管理嘛這絕對是比較好的啦而且營養部分他可以把關嘛然後第二個同樣也是學校人力的問題我跟次長或者署長請教一下啦因為我上個會期我們都很關心那個國中的校安人力國中的校安人力那之前\n\n05:52.785 --> 06:16.797\n國教署的回應是說有增設有增設一個副組長的津貼副組長的津貼那後來我們也有跟教育部不斷的溝通嘛後來謝謝教育部啦願意後來也針對國中部分有增設一個那時候叫做學務創新能力啦實際上就是校安人員啦應該是這樣啦可是去年今年一月啦今年一月份那時候是回覆我們是說\n\n06:18.358 --> 06:31.153\n現在是朝那方面研議然後會跟地方政府討論然後再簽辦那我不知道說這個校安人員的最新的有沒有確定的方案呢現在有兩個方案在跟地方協調我們是不是請那個\n\n06:33.135 --> 06:47.653\n謝謝委員關心委員關心從去年到現在他的進度是這樣我簡單的回覆兩個地方第一個是委員講了之後也會回委員我們的方向那在3月4號的時候把這個方向變成具體的跟地方政府也溝通過\n\n06:48.494 --> 07:13.171\n由學校自己選那兩種方法之一種那現在也是一樣在地方的這個才化法因為它叫年年要這樣實施所以有一些溝通允許我們跟地方政府再說服他們這是有必要而且經費上我們會一起來努力市長跟市長其實我們在這邊我們大家都是討論教育問題大家不用動不動就把才化法搬出來所以現在的做法到底是怎麼樣\n\n07:14.311 --> 07:18.516\n組長可不可以很明確就現在已經確定兩個確定已經兩個方案114學年兩個方案學校會選好那各學校現在是主要是選擇偵測副組長比較多還是選擇專職的校安人力比較多以你現在溝通的狀況\n\n07:31.889 --> 07:59.218\n以我們3月4號溝通之後縣市他還在跟學校做磋商以我前天調查的情況還沒有明確讓我們知道學校選擇情形跟委員會報但3月4號我們已經跟地方政府說明過了說明過後他足及會跟他所屬的比如說30個學校120個國中等等要做說明及選擇那個還沒有選擇完還沒選擇完所以到時候地方政府的教育局會整理完之後會報給你這邊嘛對不對然後你再統一簽報嘛是是是\n\n08:00.939 --> 08:11.017\n對不對好那所以就是有在進行當中啦有有謝謝然後再來跟也跟那個次長問另外一個議題這個議題我那是前一陣子的議題但是我\n\n08:13.411 --> 08:42.183\n個人非常好奇啦就是那個時候教育部開了一個性評會議把林玉婷列為這個性別身份資格選手的參賽的權益保障措施我先請教一下啦我實在不太懂為什麼當時啊討論性別身份資格的這個權益保障會以林玉婷為例因為就我們的立場我們全台灣的人都認為說林玉婷沒有什麼性別的問題啊她就是女性啊她就是女性嘛她只是說\n\n08:43.283 --> 08:58.283\n國際權總不知道是為什麼去質疑他全台灣都是支持他就是女性他絕對沒有問題可是為什麼在討論性別身份資格的時候會以林玉婷為例到底當時你們的想法到底是什麼\n\n08:58.663 --> 09:14.003\n我請署長來回答報告委員其實這個是當時我們在這件新聞出來之後呢其實我們的教育部本部這邊也做了一個新聞澄清當時的會議的確是討論林玉婷的事件在奧運我們體育署做了哪些努力去保護她免於網路霸凌\n\n09:14.523 --> 09:32.415\n但是呢在當下有委員也在結束的時候也順帶一提說我們現在全中運也是有這些的類似跨性別一些性別的一些議題那也希望體育署好好去處理所以在會議紀錄上面他們把它給混淆了其實是兩件事情所以這部分我們也修正了\n\n09:33.737 --> 09:51.683\n所以第二點宣導跨性別運動選手性別身份的認定這個不是指林玉婷這是另外一件事會議紀錄林玉婷但是會議紀錄這樣一出來因為你的題目是以權及選手林玉婷而立大家以為是個案嘛所以就認為說你是不是認為他是跨性別是吧\n\n09:52.903 --> 10:20.494\n我說外界是這樣覺得嘛後來我們做修正但我覺得你們的澄清真的不夠清楚啦為什麼因為你看喔你們後來就是有去修正那個會議記錄你修正會議記錄前面一頁你修正會議記錄呢你就是把一堆全部都刪掉了然後就說決定洽息請紀御署繼續維護選手參賽權益你就把它改成一句話\n\n10:21.950 --> 10:41.578\n可是你看喔那時候人家問你們說為什麼你要去更改會議紀錄你的說法是什麼你們的說法是說那個新聞是說教育部認錯文字簡略導致誤解文字簡略導致誤解結果你去修改會議紀錄你修到更簡略你本來是三段\n\n10:42.622 --> 11:03.232\n然後你覺得太簡略太簡略你應該要像剛剛次長跟署長這樣子解釋嘛對不對就是比如說題目把它改掉啊題目說我們其實在討論性別然後把林玉婷的名字拿掉嘛把林玉婷的名字拿掉然後比如說第一點你回到那個上一頁會議記錄好不好比如說你如果我是我要改的話\n\n11:04.352 --> 11:22.844\n我第一個喔性別身分資格選手參賽權益保障措施我就會把以權級選手林玉婷拿掉對不對因為不是以她為個案嘛這個主題不是她嘛她只是決定一二三其中的一個嘛所以應該是林玉婷不要出現在題目上\n\n11:23.504 --> 11:40.939\n然後一然後二然後三然後提到就是說哎呀林玉婷因為這個事情被攻擊那以後呢如果我們再遇到的話我們應該怎麼support她她應該在小點裡面她不是在大體裡面然後結果你們的修改方式是她還是在大體裡面\n\n11:42.401 --> 11:57.635\n然後決定變一句話可是你們因為一般去改那個會議紀錄是比較罕見啦但是我覺得改我也支持為什麼因為不要造成誤會可是你改你改得更奇怪你還是把林玉婷放在題目上面\n\n12:00.517 --> 12:09.063\n我是建議說你們再去改啦好不好再改一個版本啦因為這個東西現在網路上還是看得到下次先會不是因為你真的你現在我們去看我們現在去看我們還是會覺得說奇怪了為什麼\n\n12:13.906 --> 12:34.841\n你討論性別身份你要講林玉婷林玉婷到底是有什麼性別身份問題我們還是會這樣子認定啊所以請你把林玉婷拿掉然後你下面在說明的地方你就前面就講跟林玉婷無關的東西嘛你最後一段就說有委員提到林玉婷類似發生這樣被攻擊事件下一次我們應該怎麼去\n\n12:36.002 --> 13:03.632\nSupport類似的狀況你應該要這樣子修正啦好我們就請委員會這邊來我就覺得因為你越改越大家覺得你越改越奇怪當時談的問題跟這個問題是兩件事嘛剛好那個關心林玉婷的委員提到她的事情我知道我知道可是你們次長你講的這個東西呈現在書面白紙黑字就不是這樣所以既然你要改我建議說你再改一個版本\n\n13:04.372 --> 13:10.237\n不要讓正義的東西意在網路上被全部的人看到好我們會再提會議把它修正OK好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.932,"end":24,"text":"其實營養午餐這個真的非常重要其實我們在地方跑的時候常常也有小朋友或家長跟我們反映營養午餐的問題那當然好不好吃是另外一回事啦但重點是有的時候品質的把關這一塊大家其實有時候會提出一些憂心譬如說我現在給你看"},{"start":25,"end":51.938,"text":"這個圖啊當然這不是發生在我們新北市但是這是最近的事情成大南宮他們就發生說營養午餐裡面有豬扎銀絲捲捏出大半碗油那其實這就牽涉到說我們營養午餐第一個品質它有沒有出現異物第二個就是它在營養上面有沒有做到那個不管在食材上面或者是在營養的分配上有沒有達到均衡那我現在先點出三個問題是現行的狀況的問題"},{"start":54.58,"end":59.974,"text":"那第一個問題就是我們因為按照現在的法規規定只有在40班以上"},{"start":60.979,"end":85.175,"text":"自辦的廚房才要設營養師自立廚房自辦的四十班以上才要有營養師但實際上市場應該很清楚啦現在四十班以上的學校也沒有那麼多啦用人會比較準啦對對對所以它不是全部都需要四十班以上第二個有一些是自立廚房可是它是委外辦理的"},{"start":85.655,"end":109.28,"text":"那委派辦理的話學校就沒有設營養師他的營養師是設在委外的單位那委外單位的營養師我不能說他營養師有問題但是因為他是委辦單位設的營養師關係比較近當然有時候有可能會睜一隻眼閉一隻眼第三個團散的部分就是不是自立廚房團散的部分那這個營養師的規範也是在團散的業者或便當業者自己訂定"},{"start":110.14,"end":119.519,"text":"那而且這個團戰業者他的營養師他有時候會去學校支援一些這個營養教育嘛那但是負擔也非常重"},{"start":120.632,"end":139.734,"text":"所以這其實都是現在的問題那現在呢有營養師的國中跟國小大概只有佔百分之二十不到其實比例也是蠻低的所以我們訂這個專法其實是很有必要啦訂定專法把營養師這個重要的角色他的規範把它訂定清楚然後第二個是"},{"start":140.851,"end":158.498,"text":"第二個是說針對午餐祕書還有儲供等等相關規範我覺得這個這個應該是應該要做的嘛對吧市長你應該也是同意嘛不過有一個點因為好像現在按照那個你們即將提出來的版本是不是說如果是"},{"start":159.713,"end":186.594,"text":"除公假設是自辦的自立廚房如果是委外的話它是德設營養學校德設營養師現在的規劃是這樣嘛德就是可以或不可以都可以嘛對不對公辦公營是因啦那因為剛才委員有提到其他的話就德那但是就是說其實委員我們我可以講一下嗎就我們114年度法定應該聘的營養師是474啦那其實我們也知道不足"},{"start":187.094,"end":206.525,"text":"所以我們實際拚了681,就超過法規最低的一個標準那偏鄉的也在加碼,那有些還有用專案經理人的方式來取代這個角色公辦公營我現在沒有要跟你討論這個啦,我跟你討論的是自立廚房但是委外的,是用德啦其實我們是建議說應該也是要因啦"},{"start":207.405,"end":236.019,"text":"因為你學校必須要有營養師去跟他對接嘛對不對不然的話剛剛次長其實你也提到嘛關係比較近嘛都是比較偏對所以是不是可以考慮把委外的部分也改成因就是讓學校可以多一個監督跟把關的機制然後第二個就是說像團散業者有時候你也知道有些能夠供應這麼多學校跟學童的團散業者其實非常有限"},{"start":236.772,"end":254.155,"text":"那學校其實有時候對於他們當然是可以按照合約去監督啦可是在人力上面如果有一個專職的營養師去跟他對接其實對學校的營養網午餐的把關也會比較好比較好一點對不對好不好這個市長不知道說能不能朝那個方向去努力啦朝那個方向就是經費會再增加"},{"start":255.276,"end":264.165,"text":"因為我覺得真的是你看光是公辦公營的營養是增加了我覺得我們先來考慮說該不該做這個事情就是說我們該不該站在學童的營養健康這個角度去探討說該不該做這個事情那如果說大家覺得該做"},{"start":273.214,"end":295.394,"text":"那該做的話當然經費大家來討論嘛譬如說你說財化法通過之後什麼中央地方各負擔多少那大家可以去談啦可是我們要先確定說這個事情是該做或不該做嘛不應該對啊這部分主要增加會在地方啦那地方他會認為得或因我們也會尊重他們的意識我聽說很多地方其實建議說應該改因那時候是因為都中央補助啦"},{"start":298.318,"end":324.614,"text":"我們不能夠說大家要我出錢我就覺得不要做不要我出錢就應該要做那到底是該做不該做嗎我們要站在學校的角度或學生的角度去想這個事情我們先確定該不該做那我個人是覺得該做啦你也該做好不好你看我們秀出來這個圖嘛捏出大半碗油我們會把那個方案列出來版本的方案就是說得跟因多少錢那我們問地方中央一起來"},{"start":325.214,"end":351.845,"text":"我相信如果有營養師的話像類似我們現在PET上面看到照片的狀況會減少很多啦對這是管理的問題啦對啊你有營養師當然就是多一個人去管理嘛多一個管理嘛這絕對是比較好的啦而且營養部分他可以把關嘛然後第二個同樣也是學校人力的問題我跟次長或者署長請教一下啦因為我上個會期我們都很關心那個國中的校安人力國中的校安人力那之前"},{"start":352.785,"end":376.797,"text":"國教署的回應是說有增設有增設一個副組長的津貼副組長的津貼那後來我們也有跟教育部不斷的溝通嘛後來謝謝教育部啦 願意後來也針對國中部分有增設一個那時候叫做學務創新能力啦實際上就是校安人員啦應該是這樣啦可是去年 今年一月啦今年一月份那時候是回覆我們是說"},{"start":378.358,"end":391.153,"text":"現在是朝那方面研議然後會跟地方政府討論然後再簽辦那我不知道說這個校安人員的最新的有沒有確定的方案呢現在有兩個方案在跟地方協調我們是不是請那個"},{"start":393.135,"end":407.653,"text":"謝謝委員關心委員關心從去年到現在他的進度是這樣我簡單的回覆兩個地方第一個是委員講了之後也會回委員我們的方向那在3月4號的時候把這個方向變成具體的跟地方政府也溝通過"},{"start":408.494,"end":433.171,"text":"由學校自己選那兩種方法之一種那現在也是一樣在地方的這個才化法因為它叫年年要這樣實施所以有一些溝通允許我們跟地方政府再說服他們這是有必要而且經費上我們會一起來努力市長跟市長其實我們在這邊我們大家都是討論教育問題大家不用動不動就把才化法搬出來所以現在的做法到底是怎麼樣"},{"start":434.311,"end":438.516,"text":"組長可不可以很明確就現在已經確定兩個確定已經兩個方案114學年兩個方案學校會選好那各學校現在是主要是選擇偵測副組長比較多還是選擇專職的校安人力比較多以你現在溝通的狀況"},{"start":451.889,"end":479.218,"text":"以我們3月4號溝通之後縣市他還在跟學校做磋商以我前天調查的情況還沒有明確讓我們知道學校選擇情形跟委員會報但3月4號我們已經跟地方政府說明過了說明過後他足及會跟他所屬的比如說30個學校120個國中等等要做說明及選擇那個還沒有選擇完還沒選擇完所以到時候地方政府的教育局會整理完之後會報給你這邊嘛對不對然後你再統一簽報嘛是是是"},{"start":480.939,"end":491.017,"text":"對不對好那所以就是有在進行當中啦有有謝謝然後再來跟也跟那個次長問另外一個議題這個議題我那是前一陣子的議題但是我"},{"start":493.411,"end":522.183,"text":"個人非常好奇啦就是那個時候教育部開了一個性評會議把林玉婷列為這個性別身份資格選手的參賽的權益保障措施我先請教一下啦我實在不太懂為什麼當時啊討論性別身份資格的這個權益保障會以林玉婷為例因為就我們的立場我們全台灣的人都認為說林玉婷沒有什麼性別的問題啊她就是女性啊她就是女性嘛她只是說"},{"start":523.283,"end":538.283,"text":"國際權總不知道是為什麼去質疑他全台灣都是支持他就是女性他絕對沒有問題可是為什麼在討論性別身份資格的時候會以林玉婷為例到底當時你們的想法到底是什麼"},{"start":538.663,"end":554.003,"text":"我請署長來回答報告委員其實這個是當時我們在這件新聞出來之後呢其實我們的教育部本部這邊也做了一個新聞澄清當時的會議的確是討論林玉婷的事件在奧運我們體育署做了哪些努力去保護她免於網路霸凌"},{"start":554.523,"end":572.415,"text":"但是呢在當下有委員也在結束的時候也順帶一提說我們現在全中運也是有這些的類似跨性別一些性別的一些議題那也希望體育署好好去處理所以在會議紀錄上面他們把它給混淆了其實是兩件事情所以這部分我們也修正了"},{"start":573.737,"end":591.683,"text":"所以第二點宣導跨性別運動選手性別身份的認定這個不是指林玉婷這是另外一件事會議紀錄林玉婷但是會議紀錄這樣一出來因為你的題目是以權及選手林玉婷而立大家以為是個案嘛所以就認為說你是不是認為他是跨性別是吧"},{"start":592.903,"end":620.494,"text":"我說外界是這樣覺得嘛後來我們做修正但我覺得你們的澄清真的不夠清楚啦為什麼 因為你看喔你們後來就是有去修正那個會議記錄你修正會議記錄前面一頁你修正會議記錄呢你就是把一堆全部都刪掉了然後就說決定洽息請紀御署繼續維護選手參賽權益你就把它改成一句話"},{"start":621.95,"end":641.578,"text":"可是你看喔那時候人家問你們說為什麼你要去更改會議紀錄你的說法是什麼你們的說法是說那個新聞是說教育部認錯文字簡略導致誤解文字簡略導致誤解結果你去修改會議紀錄你修到更簡略你本來是三段"},{"start":642.622,"end":663.232,"text":"然後你覺得太簡略太簡略你應該要像剛剛次長跟署長這樣子解釋嘛對不對就是比如說題目把它改掉啊題目說我們其實在討論性別然後把林玉婷的名字拿掉嘛把林玉婷的名字拿掉然後比如說第一點你回到那個上一頁會議記錄好不好比如說你如果我是我要改的話"},{"start":664.352,"end":682.844,"text":"我第一個喔性別身分資格選手參賽權益保障措施我就會把以權級選手林玉婷拿掉對不對因為不是以她為個案嘛這個主題不是她嘛她只是決定一二三其中的一個嘛所以應該是林玉婷不要出現在題目上"},{"start":683.504,"end":700.939,"text":"然後一然後二然後三然後提到就是說哎呀林玉婷因為這個事情被攻擊那以後呢如果我們再遇到的話我們應該怎麼support她她應該在小點裡面她不是在大體裡面然後結果你們的修改方式是她還是在大體裡面"},{"start":702.401,"end":717.635,"text":"然後決定變一句話可是你們因為一般去改那個會議紀錄是比較罕見啦但是我覺得改我也支持為什麼因為不要造成誤會可是你改你改得更奇怪你還是把林玉婷放在題目上面"},{"start":720.517,"end":729.063,"text":"我是建議說你們再去改啦好不好再改一個版本啦因為這個東西現在網路上還是看得到下次先會不是因為你真的你現在我們去看我們現在去看我們還是會覺得說奇怪了為什麼"},{"start":733.906,"end":754.841,"text":"你討論性別身份你要講林玉婷林玉婷到底是有什麼性別身份問題我們還是會這樣子認定啊所以請你把林玉婷拿掉然後你下面在說明的地方你就前面就講跟林玉婷無關的東西嘛你最後一段就說有委員提到林玉婷類似發生這樣被攻擊事件下一次我們應該怎麼去"},{"start":756.002,"end":783.632,"text":"Support類似的狀況你應該要這樣子修正啦好 我們就請委員會這邊來我就覺得因為你越改越大家覺得你越改越奇怪當時談的問題跟這個問題是兩件事嘛剛好那個關心林玉婷的委員提到她的事情我知道我知道可是你們次長你講的這個東西呈現在書面白紙黑字就不是這樣所以既然你要改我建議說你再改一個版本"},{"start":784.372,"end":790.237,"text":"不要讓正義的東西 意在網路上被全部的人看到好 我們會再提會議把它修正OK 好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":816,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時10分）你好，麻煩請教育部次長，謝謝。"],["主席：請次長備詢。"],["張廖次長萬堅：謝謝，委員好。"],["葉委員元之：次長好。其實營養午餐真的非常重要，我們在地方跑的時候，常常也有小朋友或家長跟我們反映營養午餐的問題，當然，好不好吃是另外一回事，但是重點是有的時候品質的把關這塊，大家會提出一些憂心。譬如我現在給你看這個圖，這不是發生在我們新北市，但這是最近的事情，就是成大南工發生營養午餐裡面的酥炸銀絲卷捏出大半碗油。其實這就牽涉到我們營養午餐：第一個，品質，有沒有出現異物？第二個，在營養上面，有沒有做到不管在食材上面或者營養的分配上達到均衡？","我現在先點出3個現行狀況的問題。第一個問題就是，按照現在的法規規定，只有在40班以上，自辦的廚房才要設營養師，就是自立廚房、自辦的、40班以上，才要有營養師。但實際上次長應該很清楚，現在40班以上的學校也沒有那麼多。"],["張廖次長萬堅：很少，用人數會比較準。"],["葉委員元之：對，所以它不是全部都需要，只有40班以上才要。第二個，有一些是自立廚房，可是它是委外辦理的，如果是委外辦理，學校就沒有設營養師，其營養師是設在委外的單位。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["葉委員元之：委外單位的營養師，我不能說它的營養師有問題，但是因為是委辦單位設的營養師……"],["張廖次長萬堅：關係比較近。"],["葉委員元之：關係比較近，當然，有時候有可能會睜一隻眼、閉一隻眼。第三個，團膳的部分，就是不是自立廚房，而是團膳的部分，其營養師的規範也是由團膳的業者或便當業者自己訂定。"],["張廖次長萬堅：是。"],["葉委員元之：而且團膳業者的營養師有時候會去學校支援一些營養教育，負擔也非常重，所以這些其實都是現在的問題。現在有營養師的國中跟國小大概只有占不到20%，比例也是滿低的，所以我們定這個專法其實是很有必要，就是制定專法把營養師這個重要角色的規範訂定清楚。第二個，針對午餐秘書及廚工等等相關規範，我覺得這個是應該要做的，對吧？次長，您應該也是同意嘛？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，沒有錯。"],["葉委員元之：不過，有一個點，按照你們即將提出來的版本，假設是自辦的自立廚房，如果是委外的話，學校是「得」設營養師……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["葉委員元之：現在規劃是這樣嗎？「得」就是可以或不可以，都可以，對不對？"],["張廖次長萬堅：公辦公營是「應」。"],["葉委員元之：對，公辦公營是「應」。"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員有提到其他的話是「得」。委員，我可以講一下嗎？我們114年度法定應該聘的營養師是474，其實我們也知道不足，所以我們實際聘了681，超過法規最低的標準，偏鄉的部分也在加碼，有些還有用專案經理人的方式來取代這個角色，其實現在聘了七百多。"],["葉委員元之：公辦公營的部分我現在沒有要跟你討論，我跟你討論的是，自立廚房但是委外的部分是用「得」。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，「得」。"],["葉委員元之：其實我們建議應該也是要「應」，因為學校必須要有營養師去跟它對接，對不對？不然的話，剛剛次長其實你也提到了，關係比較近嘛。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，自立廚房都是比較偏鄉的。"],["葉委員元之：對，所以是不是可以考慮把委外的部分也改成「應」，讓學校可以多一個監督跟把關的機制？第二個，像團膳業者，你也知道，能夠供應這麼多學校跟學童的團膳業者其實非常有限，學校對於他們當然可以按照合約去監督，可是在人力上面，如果能有一個專職的營養師去跟他對接，其實對學校營養午餐的把關上也會比較好。"],["張廖次長萬堅：比較好一點，對。"],["葉委員元之：次長，不知道能不能朝那個方向去努力？"],["張廖次長萬堅：朝那個方向就是經費會再增加，你看光是公辦公營的營養師增加，就要兩億七了，550人的話……"],["葉委員元之：對啦！我覺得我們先來考慮該不該做這個事情，就是站在學童營養、健康的角度去探討該不該做這個事情。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，我們會再跟地方討論。"],["葉委員元之：如果大家覺得該做，當然經費的部分大家再來討論，譬如說財劃法通過之後，中央、地方各負擔多少，當然大家可以去談，可是我們要先確定這個事情是該做或不該做，不應該……"],["張廖次長萬堅：這部分主要是增加在地方的部分，而地方認為是「得」或「應」，我們也會尊重他們的意思。"],["葉委員元之：我聽說很多地方建議應該改為「應」。"],["張廖次長萬堅：那時候因為都是中央補助。"],["葉委員元之：不能夠要我出錢我就覺得不要做；不要我出錢就應該要做，到底是該做還是不該做呢？我們應站在學校的角度或學生的角度去想這個事情，好不好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員，這是現實考慮，站在中央的立場……"],["葉委員元之：我們先確定該不該做，我個人是覺得應該做啦！"],["張廖次長萬堅：尊重委員的想法。"],["葉委員元之：你看我們秀出來的這個圖，就是「捏出大半碗油」！"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們會把各個版本方案列出來，就是「得」跟「應」各會是多少錢，我們也會問地方的意見，然後中央、地方一起來討論。"],["葉委員元之：我相信如果有營養師的話，現在在PPT上面看到的這種狀況就會減少很多，次長同意嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，這是管理的問題。"],["葉委員元之：有營養師當然就是多一個管理，絕對是比較好的，而且營養的部分他可以把關。","第二個，同樣也是學校人力的問題，我要跟次長或是署長請教一下，上個會期我們都很關心國中的校安人力，之前國教署的回應是說有增設一個副組長的津貼，後來我們也跟教育部不斷地溝通，也謝謝教育部願意針對國中的部分增設一個叫做學務創新人力，實際上就是校安人員，應該就是這樣子；今年1月那時你們曾回復我們說，現在是朝那方面研議，會跟地方政府討論，然後再簽辦，但我不知道這個校安人員最新的狀況如何，有沒有確定的方案呢？"],["張廖次長萬堅：現在有兩個方案在跟地方協調，我請署長來說明。"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員關心，從去年到現在它的進度是這樣的，我簡單的回復兩個地方，第一個，委員講完之後我們也有回覆委員我們的方向，在3月4號的時候，我們把這個方向變成具體的，跟地方政府也溝通過，由學校自己選擇兩種方法之一種，現在也是一樣，在地方的財劃法，因為它是要年年這樣來實施，所以有一些的溝通，請容許我們跟地方政府再溝通、再說服他們，這是有必要的，而且經費上我們都會一起來努力。"],["葉委員元之：次長、署長，其實我們大家在這邊都是討論教育問題，大家不用動不動就把財劃法搬出來，所以現在的作法到底是怎麼樣？署長，這部分可不可以很明確？現在已經確定有兩個方案去跟地方政府……"],["彭署長富源：114學年有兩個方案，然後學校會去選。"],["葉委員元之：好，那各學校現在選擇增設副組長比較多，還是選擇專職的校安人力比較多？以現在溝通的狀況來說。"],["彭署長富源：跟委員回報，3月4號我們進行溝通之後，縣市還在跟學校做磋商，以我前天調查的情況，目前還沒有明確到讓我們知道學校選擇的情形，但3月4號我們就跟地方政府說明過了，說明過後它會逐級地跟它所屬的，譬如說30個學校、120個國中等等，要做說明及選擇，而那個選擇的部分還沒有選擇完。"],["葉委員元之：還沒選擇完？"],["彭署長富源：對。"],["葉委員元之：所以到時候地方政府教育局整理完之後會報到你這邊，然後你再統一簽報，對不對？"],["彭署長富源：是。"],["葉委員元之：好，所以就是有在進行當中。"],["張廖次長萬堅：有。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。","再來要問次長另外一個議題，這是前一陣子的議題，但是我個人非常好奇，那個時候教育部開了一個性平會議，當中以林郁婷為例，將其列在性別身分資格選手的參賽權益保障措施的內容中，我先請教一下，我實在不太懂，為什麼當時討論性別身分資格選手的參賽權益保障措施會以林郁婷為例？因為就我們的立場，我們全臺灣的人都認為林郁婷沒有什麼性別的問題，她就是女性啊！只是國際拳總不知道為什麼去質疑她，全臺灣都支持她就是女性，她絕對沒有問題，可是為什麼在討論性別身分資格選手的時候，會以林郁婷為例？當時你們的想法到底是什麼？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我請署長來回答。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，當時我們在這件新聞出來之後，其實我們的教育部本部這邊也做了一個新聞澄清，當時的會議的確是討論林郁婷的事件，在奧運當中我們體育署做了哪些努力去保護她免於網路霸凌。但是當下有委員在結束的時候，也順帶一提說，我們現在的全中運也是有這些類似跨性別的性別議題，也希望體育署好好去處理，所以在會議紀錄上面，他們把她的這件事情給混淆了，其實這是兩件事情，所以這部分我們也修正了。"],["葉委員元之：所以「(二)……宣導跨性別運動選手性別身分的認定……」這個不是指林郁婷？"],["張廖次長萬堅：那個無關……"],["葉委員元之：這是另外一件事？"],["張廖次長萬堅：會議紀錄已經修正。"],["葉委員元之：所以當時會議紀錄這樣一出來，因為你的題目是「以拳擊選手林郁婷為例」，大家以為這個是個案，所以想說你是不是認為她是跨性別，是吧？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對！當然不是。"],["葉委員元之：我是說外界是這樣覺得。"],["張廖次長萬堅：後來我們做了修正。"],["葉委員元之：但是我覺得你們的澄清真的不夠清楚，為什麼？你們後來有去修正會議紀錄，就是把一堆文字全部都刪掉了，然後變成「決定：洽悉，請體育署賡續維護選手參賽權益。」你就是把它改成一句話，可是那時候人家問你們為什麼要去更改會議紀錄時，新聞是提到「教育部認錯：文字簡略導致誤解」，都已經是文字簡略導致誤解，結果你還把會議紀錄修改到更簡略，本來有三段，你覺得太簡略，若太簡略的話，就應該要像剛剛次長跟署長這樣子的解釋，比如說把題目改掉，若是我來改的話，「性別身分資格選手的參賽權益保障措施，以拳擊選手林郁婷為例」的文字，我就會把「以拳擊選手林郁婷為例」拿掉，因為不是以她為個案，這個主題不是她，她只是決定(一)、(二)、(三)的其中一個，所以應該是「林郁婷」等字不要出現在題目上；然後接(一)、(二)、(三)；再提到林郁婷因為這個事情被攻擊，以後如果我們再遇到的話，我們應該怎麼support她，她應該在小點裡面，而不是在大題裡面，結果你們的修改方式是她還是在大題裡面，然後決定的部分變成只有一句話，因為一般會去改會議紀錄的情況是比較罕見的，但是改掉我也是支持的，為什麼？因為不要造成誤會，可是你改得更奇怪，還是把「林郁婷」放在題目上面，我建議你們再去改一個版本，因為這個東西現在網路上還是看得到。"],["張廖次長萬堅：下次性平會開的時候在……"],["葉委員元之：我們現在去看還是會覺得奇怪，為什麼你討論性別身分時要講到林郁婷，林郁婷到底是有什麼性別身分的問題？我們還是會這樣子認定啊！所以請你把「林郁婷」拿掉，然後下面說明的地方，比方說前面就講一些跟林郁婷無關的東西，最後一段再說，因為有委員提到林郁婷發生類似被攻擊的事件，下次我們應該怎樣去support類似的狀況，你應該要這樣子修正啦！"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員這樣講非常好，我們會請性平會來修正。"],["葉委員元之：因為大家覺得你越改越奇怪。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，當時談的問題跟這個問題是兩個問題。"],["葉委員元之：兩件事嘛！"],["張廖次長萬堅：剛好關心林郁婷的委員提到了她的事情，要把她放在……"],["葉委員元之：我知道！可是次長你講的這個東西呈現在書面、白紙黑字上就不是這樣，既然你要改，我建議你再改一個版本，不要讓有爭議的東西一直在網路上被全部的人看到，好不好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，我們會請性平會來做修正，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員質詢，官員請回座。接下來我們繼續請伍麗華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-3","speakers":["葛如鈞","洪孟楷","王育敏","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","陳秀寳","葉元之","柯志恩","萬美玲","林沛祥","林宜瑾","劉書彬","郭昱晴","范雲","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張雅琳","吳沛憶","林倩綺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李彥秀","吳思瑤","李坤城","陳培瑜"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「學校供餐法草案」：(一) 審查委員范雲等16人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(二) 審\n查委員馬文君等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、 (三) 審查委員魯明哲等24人擬具「學校供餐\n法草案」案、(四) 審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(五) 審查委員洪孟楷等\n20 人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、 ( 六 ) 審查委員黃健豪等 20 人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、\n( 七) 審查委員楊瓊瓔等21 人擬具「學校供餐條例草案」案、 ( 八) 審查委員林倩綺等 21 人擬具\n「學校午餐及營養促進條例草案」案、 ( 九 ) 審查委員鍾佳濱等 17 人擬具「學校午餐法草案」\n案、(十) 審查委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育法草案」案、(十一) 審查委員張雅\n琳等17人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育法草案」案、(十二) 審查委員柯志恩等21人擬具「學校午\n餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、(十三) 審查委員陳培瑜等26人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育條例草\n案」案、(十四) 審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「高級中等以下學校及幼兒園午餐供餐法草案」案、\n(十五) 審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草案」案、(十六) 審查委員葉元之等\n20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草案」案、(十七) 審查委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「學校飲食法草\n案」案、(十八) 審查委員林宜瑾等33人擬具「學校飲食法草案」案、(十九) 審查委員劉建國等\n17人擬具「學校飲食教育法草案」案、(二十) 審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「學校營養飲食供餐\n法草案」案、(二十一) 審查委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「高級中等以下學校供餐及飲食教育條例草\n案」案、(二十二) 審查委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」\n案、(二十三) 審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案（僅進行詢答）；二、審\n查「運動產業發展條例」：(一) 審查委員柯志恩等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及\n第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(二) 審查委員張智倫等 18 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(三) 審查委員洪孟楷等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第\n二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(四) 審查委員王鴻薇等 19 人擬具「運動產業發展\n條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(五) 審查委員林倩綺等22人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例第四條條文修正草案」案、(六) 審查委員沈發惠等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二\n條條文修正草案」案、(七) 審查委員許宇甄等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二\n十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二條、第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」、(九)審查委員楊瓊瓔等27人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1142901_00003"}}}