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\"score\": 0.012}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,519 --> 00:00:11,737\n謝謝主席部長不在請次長何市長\n\n2\n00:00:19,122 --> 00:00:44,282\n委員好次長好關於地熱我在1月的時候我也有來到這裡做質詢那當時也是部長不在請次長所以這個部分我就是跟您重新表達一下我上一次質詢的一個訴求這應該就不是你退休了那當時是提到說要做出一個行政指引\n\n3\n00:00:44,983 --> 00:01:00,765\n要有一個爭端的協調平台然後希望有政府投資部落入股的觀念進來也希望有一個地熱專區的示範點那辦理公聽會形成一種新型態的夥伴關係那今天看到我們的夜報\n\n4\n00:01:01,846 --> 00:01:20,714\n再生能源發展條例已經新增了地熱專章那地熱能的探勘與開發許可及管理辦法呢也已經公告施行那這裡面呢關於申請的一些條件也很清楚的寫著說在原住民族的土地部落的一個公有土地上\n\n5\n00:01:21,374 --> 00:01:42,705\n要有所謂的部落會議的一個相關的文件但是我今天是來關心因為有很多地方現在我們看到來做地熱開發他們選擇的是私有的原保地私人的土地所以就會有一些些的意見陳情紛爭\n\n6\n00:01:45,006 --> 00:02:03,879\n那時至今日其實大家討論了那麼久大家都承認說地熱它不屬於私人的地主那麼它是屬於共享的資源現在大家慢慢有這個觀念了因為地熱不同於其他的能源開發所以呢我是想要請教一下市長\n\n7\n00:02:05,060 --> 00:02:20,251\n在這種沒有辦法突破現行私有地我們要來踐行部落諮商同意的機制這樣的一個狀況下您認為有沒有什麼好的替代方案可以確保我們在私有土地開發地熱的時候我們怎麼確保部落的權益我想聽聽看次長您的看法報告委員這個是按照那個\n\n8\n00:02:28,316 --> 00:02:34,581\n原住民基本法的這個規定那我是不是請我們那個代理署長來跟報告一下好謝謝署長請\n\n9\n00:02:36,539 --> 00:03:04,601\n是那謝謝委員跟我們的指教那毛委員也跟我們講過那不過我們現在依照我們的原基法第21條它只有要求公有土地那我們目的事業主管機關我們現在是必須要配合原基法那所以是不是要把私有土地納入或是可能需要在原基法那邊做適當的修改或是解釋那目前來講我們沒有辦法違反原基法的規定那有什麼報告\n\n10\n00:03:05,502 --> 00:03:25,423\n來那我現在站在這邊質詢其實就是為了解決這件事因為事實是我們的地熱開發現在如果他在私有土地上會引起爭端因為將心比心我家旁邊的私有地上在做地熱的專炭\n\n11\n00:03:27,537 --> 00:03:34,545\n然後完全不需要去來徵求我的同意那這樣子部落就會抗爭那對廠商來講他也覺得做這些投資好可怕那我現在說像前經濟部長王美花部長的時候那時候我們在修礦業法我們就有要求說去做一個\n\n12\n00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:53,064\n指引那這個指引呢也做出來了齁那現在是問題就是出在說我們的公有地他會有一個狀況我都還沒有破例對廠商來講我就要談回饋因為他必須要去鑽探\n\n13\n00:04:03,974 --> 00:04:10,680\n結果有可能是沒有開發的價值他就覺得好可怕我都還沒有獲利公有地就要踐行部落諮商同意要談利益分享機制對他來講很為難可是呢對私有地主來講呢或者部落來講我都還沒有同意我就要去被鑽探所以呢這件事情我們就一直希望說政府的態度要拿出來\n\n14\n00:04:27,037 --> 00:04:54,792\n那上次有來辦公室跟我報告說目前地熱也打算來做指引那做了沒有進行到什麼階段那內容大概是什麼目前有在做那大概我們還會找一些相關的利害關係的團體來共同討論最後才會確認下來所以確實有在做了是是那可能要相關的利害團體我們還要徵詢大家意見然後最後確定下來這樣好\n\n15\n00:04:56,133 --> 00:05:14,963\n我還是要強調地熱它很特別它不屬於私人地主大家都認為它是屬於共享的資源所以我希望說像這種私有地開發的部落知情同意必須要在地熱開發做一個治理的模式例如訂定部落契約去處理這些可能發生的爭議\n\n16\n00:05:18,325 --> 00:05:20,907\n那怎麼樣去執行廠商在申請許可文件的時候要有這樣的一個部落契約那我想這個是希望達到三贏有一點類似三方契約因為公有土地是很明確的要去廠商跟部落之間去做諮商同意但是這種私有地的\n\n17\n00:05:37,065 --> 00:06:03,902\n那他的部落契約可能是還要去涉及到一個部落的一個知情同意那我希望說未來在這樣的一個開發模式上面呢我們希望可以很清楚的提到那更何況是我們提到的就是部落入股那讓部落不僅僅是被動的提供這個土地接受開發而是希望能夠建立一種新型態的夥伴關係那希望政府廠商\n\n18\n00:06:04,482 --> 00:06:32,444\n部落或私人我們都能夠達到一個雙贏的地步也能夠共同的去完成我們政府國家定定的一個目標這樣可以嗎是的謝謝委員指教我們會來把他那我也希望說就是能夠在你們辦理地熱論壇之前能夠到我的辦公室我希望得到一個回覆是可以OK好謝謝市長謝謝署長謝謝主席謝謝委員好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8519\t11737\t謝謝主席 部長不在請次長何市長\n19122\t44282\t委員好次長好關於地熱我在1月的時候我也有來到這裡做質詢那當時也是部長不在請次長所以這個部分我就是跟您重新表達一下我上一次質詢的一個訴求這應該就不是你退休了那當時是提到說要做出一個行政指引\n44983\t60765\t要有一個爭端的協調平台然後希望有政府投資部落入股的觀念進來也希望有一個地熱專區的示範點那辦理公聽會形成一種新型態的夥伴關係那今天看到我們的夜報\n61846\t80714\t再生能源發展條例已經新增了地熱專章那地熱能的探勘與開發許可及管理辦法呢也已經公告施行那這裡面呢關於申請的一些條件也很清楚的寫著說在原住民族的土地部落的一個公有土地上\n81374\t102705\t要有所謂的部落會議的一個相關的文件但是我今天是來關心因為有很多地方現在我們看到來做地熱開發他們選擇的是私有的原保地 私人的土地所以就會有一些些的意見 陳情 紛爭\n105006\t123879\t那時至今日其實大家討論了那麼久大家都承認說地熱它不屬於私人的地主那麼它是屬於共享的資源現在大家慢慢有這個觀念了因為地熱不同於其他的能源開發所以呢我是想要請教一下市長\n125060\t140251\t在這種沒有辦法突破現行私有地我們要來踐行部落諮商同意的機制這樣的一個狀況下您認為有沒有什麼好的替代方案可以確保我們在私有土地開發地熱的時候我們怎麼確保部落的權益我想聽聽看次長您的看法報告委員這個是按照那個\n148316\t154581\t原住民基本法的這個規定那我是不是請我們那個代理署長來跟報告一下好 謝謝署長請\n156539\t184601\t是 那謝謝委員跟我們的指教那毛委員也跟我們講過那不過我們現在依照我們的原基法第21條它只有要求公有土地那我們目的事業主管機關我們現在是必須要配合原基法那所以是不是要把私有土地納入或是可能需要在原基法那邊做適當的修改或是解釋那目前來講我們沒有辦法違反原基法的規定那有什麼報告\n185502\t205423\t來那我現在站在這邊質詢其實就是為了解決這件事因為事實是我們的地熱開發現在如果他在私有土地上會引起爭端因為將心比心我家旁邊的私有地上在做地熱的專炭\n207537\t214545\t然後完全不需要去來徵求我的同意那這樣子部落就會抗爭那對廠商來講他也覺得做這些投資好可怕那我現在說像前經濟部長王美花部長的時候那時候我們在修礦業法我們就有要求說去做一個\n228280\t233064\t指引那這個指引呢也做出來了齁那現在是問題就是出在說我們的公有地他會有一個狀況我都還沒有破例對廠商來講我就要談回饋因為他必須要去鑽探\n243974\t250680\t結果有可能是沒有開發的價值他就覺得好可怕我都還沒有獲利公有地就要踐行部落諮商同意要談利益分享機制對他來講很為難可是呢對私有地主來講呢或者部落來講我都還沒有同意我就要去被鑽探所以呢這件事情我們就一直希望說政府的態度要拿出來\n267037\t294792\t那上次有來辦公室跟我報告說目前地熱也打算來做指引那做了沒有進行到什麼階段那內容大概是什麼目前有在做那大概我們還會找一些相關的利害關係的團體來共同討論最後才會確認下來所以確實有在做了是是那可能要相關的利害團體我們還要徵詢大家意見然後最後確定下來這樣好\n296133\t314963\t我還是要強調地熱它很特別它不屬於私人地主大家都認為它是屬於共享的資源所以我希望說像這種私有地開發的部落知情同意必須要在地熱開發做一個治理的模式例如訂定部落契約去處理這些可能發生的爭議\n318325\t320907\t那怎麼樣去執行廠商在申請許可文件的時候要有這樣的一個部落契約那我想這個是希望達到三贏有一點類似三方契約因為公有土地是很明確的要去廠商跟部落之間去做諮商同意但是這種私有地的\n337065\t363902\t那他的部落契約可能是還要去涉及到一個部落的一個知情同意那我希望說未來在這樣的一個開發模式上面呢我們希望可以很清楚的提到那更何況是我們提到的就是部落入股那讓部落不僅僅是被動的提供這個土地接受開發而是希望能夠建立一種新型態的夥伴關係那希望政府 廠商\n364482\t392444\t部落或私人我們都能夠達到一個雙贏的地步也能夠共同的去完成我們政府國家定定的一個目標這樣可以嗎是的謝謝委員指教我們會來把他那我也希望說就是能夠在你們辦理地熱論壇之前能夠到我的辦公室我希望得到一個回覆是可以OK好謝謝市長謝謝署長謝謝主席謝謝委員好\n","txt":"謝謝主席 部長不在請次長何市長\n委員好次長好關於地熱我在1月的時候我也有來到這裡做質詢那當時也是部長不在請次長所以這個部分我就是跟您重新表達一下我上一次質詢的一個訴求這應該就不是你退休了那當時是提到說要做出一個行政指引\n要有一個爭端的協調平台然後希望有政府投資部落入股的觀念進來也希望有一個地熱專區的示範點那辦理公聽會形成一種新型態的夥伴關係那今天看到我們的夜報\n再生能源發展條例已經新增了地熱專章那地熱能的探勘與開發許可及管理辦法呢也已經公告施行那這裡面呢關於申請的一些條件也很清楚的寫著說在原住民族的土地部落的一個公有土地上\n要有所謂的部落會議的一個相關的文件但是我今天是來關心因為有很多地方現在我們看到來做地熱開發他們選擇的是私有的原保地 私人的土地所以就會有一些些的意見 陳情 紛爭\n那時至今日其實大家討論了那麼久大家都承認說地熱它不屬於私人的地主那麼它是屬於共享的資源現在大家慢慢有這個觀念了因為地熱不同於其他的能源開發所以呢我是想要請教一下市長\n在這種沒有辦法突破現行私有地我們要來踐行部落諮商同意的機制這樣的一個狀況下您認為有沒有什麼好的替代方案可以確保我們在私有土地開發地熱的時候我們怎麼確保部落的權益我想聽聽看次長您的看法報告委員這個是按照那個\n原住民基本法的這個規定那我是不是請我們那個代理署長來跟報告一下好 謝謝署長請\n是 那謝謝委員跟我們的指教那毛委員也跟我們講過那不過我們現在依照我們的原基法第21條它只有要求公有土地那我們目的事業主管機關我們現在是必須要配合原基法那所以是不是要把私有土地納入或是可能需要在原基法那邊做適當的修改或是解釋那目前來講我們沒有辦法違反原基法的規定那有什麼報告\n來那我現在站在這邊質詢其實就是為了解決這件事因為事實是我們的地熱開發現在如果他在私有土地上會引起爭端因為將心比心我家旁邊的私有地上在做地熱的專炭\n然後完全不需要去來徵求我的同意那這樣子部落就會抗爭那對廠商來講他也覺得做這些投資好可怕那我現在說像前經濟部長王美花部長的時候那時候我們在修礦業法我們就有要求說去做一個\n指引那這個指引呢也做出來了齁那現在是問題就是出在說我們的公有地他會有一個狀況我都還沒有破例對廠商來講我就要談回饋因為他必須要去鑽探\n結果有可能是沒有開發的價值他就覺得好可怕我都還沒有獲利公有地就要踐行部落諮商同意要談利益分享機制對他來講很為難可是呢對私有地主來講呢或者部落來講我都還沒有同意我就要去被鑽探所以呢這件事情我們就一直希望說政府的態度要拿出來\n那上次有來辦公室跟我報告說目前地熱也打算來做指引那做了沒有進行到什麼階段那內容大概是什麼目前有在做那大概我們還會找一些相關的利害關係的團體來共同討論最後才會確認下來所以確實有在做了是是那可能要相關的利害團體我們還要徵詢大家意見然後最後確定下來這樣好\n我還是要強調地熱它很特別它不屬於私人地主大家都認為它是屬於共享的資源所以我希望說像這種私有地開發的部落知情同意必須要在地熱開發做一個治理的模式例如訂定部落契約去處理這些可能發生的爭議\n那怎麼樣去執行廠商在申請許可文件的時候要有這樣的一個部落契約那我想這個是希望達到三贏有一點類似三方契約因為公有土地是很明確的要去廠商跟部落之間去做諮商同意但是這種私有地的\n那他的部落契約可能是還要去涉及到一個部落的一個知情同意那我希望說未來在這樣的一個開發模式上面呢我們希望可以很清楚的提到那更何況是我們提到的就是部落入股那讓部落不僅僅是被動的提供這個土地接受開發而是希望能夠建立一種新型態的夥伴關係那希望政府 廠商\n部落或私人我們都能夠達到一個雙贏的地步也能夠共同的去完成我們政府國家定定的一個目標這樣可以嗎是的謝謝委員指教我們會來把他那我也希望說就是能夠在你們辦理地熱論壇之前能夠到我的辦公室我希望得到一個回覆是可以OK好謝謝市長謝謝署長謝謝主席謝謝委員好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.519 --> 00:11.737\n謝謝主席部長不在請次長何市長\n\n00:19.122 --> 00:44.282\n委員好次長好關於地熱我在1月的時候我也有來到這裡做質詢那當時也是部長不在請次長所以這個部分我就是跟您重新表達一下我上一次質詢的一個訴求這應該就不是你退休了那當時是提到說要做出一個行政指引\n\n00:44.983 --> 01:00.765\n要有一個爭端的協調平台然後希望有政府投資部落入股的觀念進來也希望有一個地熱專區的示範點那辦理公聽會形成一種新型態的夥伴關係那今天看到我們的夜報\n\n01:01.846 --> 01:20.714\n再生能源發展條例已經新增了地熱專章那地熱能的探勘與開發許可及管理辦法呢也已經公告施行那這裡面呢關於申請的一些條件也很清楚的寫著說在原住民族的土地部落的一個公有土地上\n\n01:21.374 --> 01:42.705\n要有所謂的部落會議的一個相關的文件但是我今天是來關心因為有很多地方現在我們看到來做地熱開發他們選擇的是私有的原保地私人的土地所以就會有一些些的意見陳情紛爭\n\n01:45.006 --> 02:03.879\n那時至今日其實大家討論了那麼久大家都承認說地熱它不屬於私人的地主那麼它是屬於共享的資源現在大家慢慢有這個觀念了因為地熱不同於其他的能源開發所以呢我是想要請教一下市長\n\n02:05.060 --> 02:20.251\n在這種沒有辦法突破現行私有地我們要來踐行部落諮商同意的機制這樣的一個狀況下您認為有沒有什麼好的替代方案可以確保我們在私有土地開發地熱的時候我們怎麼確保部落的權益我想聽聽看次長您的看法報告委員這個是按照那個\n\n02:28.316 --> 02:34.581\n原住民基本法的這個規定那我是不是請我們那個代理署長來跟報告一下好謝謝署長請\n\n02:36.539 --> 03:04.601\n是那謝謝委員跟我們的指教那毛委員也跟我們講過那不過我們現在依照我們的原基法第21條它只有要求公有土地那我們目的事業主管機關我們現在是必須要配合原基法那所以是不是要把私有土地納入或是可能需要在原基法那邊做適當的修改或是解釋那目前來講我們沒有辦法違反原基法的規定那有什麼報告\n\n03:05.502 --> 03:25.423\n來那我現在站在這邊質詢其實就是為了解決這件事因為事實是我們的地熱開發現在如果他在私有土地上會引起爭端因為將心比心我家旁邊的私有地上在做地熱的專炭\n\n03:27.537 --> 03:34.545\n然後完全不需要去來徵求我的同意那這樣子部落就會抗爭那對廠商來講他也覺得做這些投資好可怕那我現在說像前經濟部長王美花部長的時候那時候我們在修礦業法我們就有要求說去做一個\n\n03:48.280 --> 03:53.064\n指引那這個指引呢也做出來了齁那現在是問題就是出在說我們的公有地他會有一個狀況我都還沒有破例對廠商來講我就要談回饋因為他必須要去鑽探\n\n04:03.974 --> 04:10.680\n結果有可能是沒有開發的價值他就覺得好可怕我都還沒有獲利公有地就要踐行部落諮商同意要談利益分享機制對他來講很為難可是呢對私有地主來講呢或者部落來講我都還沒有同意我就要去被鑽探所以呢這件事情我們就一直希望說政府的態度要拿出來\n\n04:27.037 --> 04:54.792\n那上次有來辦公室跟我報告說目前地熱也打算來做指引那做了沒有進行到什麼階段那內容大概是什麼目前有在做那大概我們還會找一些相關的利害關係的團體來共同討論最後才會確認下來所以確實有在做了是是那可能要相關的利害團體我們還要徵詢大家意見然後最後確定下來這樣好\n\n04:56.133 --> 05:14.963\n我還是要強調地熱它很特別它不屬於私人地主大家都認為它是屬於共享的資源所以我希望說像這種私有地開發的部落知情同意必須要在地熱開發做一個治理的模式例如訂定部落契約去處理這些可能發生的爭議\n\n05:18.325 --> 05:20.907\n那怎麼樣去執行廠商在申請許可文件的時候要有這樣的一個部落契約那我想這個是希望達到三贏有一點類似三方契約因為公有土地是很明確的要去廠商跟部落之間去做諮商同意但是這種私有地的\n\n05:37.065 --> 06:03.902\n那他的部落契約可能是還要去涉及到一個部落的一個知情同意那我希望說未來在這樣的一個開發模式上面呢我們希望可以很清楚的提到那更何況是我們提到的就是部落入股那讓部落不僅僅是被動的提供這個土地接受開發而是希望能夠建立一種新型態的夥伴關係那希望政府廠商\n\n06:04.482 --> 06:32.444\n部落或私人我們都能夠達到一個雙贏的地步也能夠共同的去完成我們政府國家定定的一個目標這樣可以嗎是的謝謝委員指教我們會來把他那我也希望說就是能夠在你們辦理地熱論壇之前能夠到我的辦公室我希望得到一個回覆是可以OK好謝謝市長謝謝署長謝謝主席謝謝委員好\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.519,"end":11.737,"text":"謝謝主席 部長不在請次長何市長"},{"start":19.122,"end":44.282,"text":"委員好次長好關於地熱我在1月的時候我也有來到這裡做質詢那當時也是部長不在請次長所以這個部分我就是跟您重新表達一下我上一次質詢的一個訴求這應該就不是你退休了那當時是提到說要做出一個行政指引"},{"start":44.983,"end":60.765,"text":"要有一個爭端的協調平台然後希望有政府投資部落入股的觀念進來也希望有一個地熱專區的示範點那辦理公聽會形成一種新型態的夥伴關係那今天看到我們的夜報"},{"start":61.846,"end":80.714,"text":"再生能源發展條例已經新增了地熱專章那地熱能的探勘與開發許可及管理辦法呢也已經公告施行那這裡面呢關於申請的一些條件也很清楚的寫著說在原住民族的土地部落的一個公有土地上"},{"start":81.374,"end":102.705,"text":"要有所謂的部落會議的一個相關的文件但是我今天是來關心因為有很多地方現在我們看到來做地熱開發他們選擇的是私有的原保地 私人的土地所以就會有一些些的意見 陳情 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廠商"},{"start":364.482,"end":392.444,"text":"部落或私人我們都能夠達到一個雙贏的地步也能夠共同的去完成我們政府國家定定的一個目標這樣可以嗎是的謝謝委員指教我們會來把他那我也希望說就是能夠在你們辦理地熱論壇之前能夠到我的辦公室我希望得到一個回覆是可以OK好謝謝市長謝謝署長謝謝主席謝謝委員好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1320,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（12時53分）謝謝主席。部長不在，請次長。"],["主席：請何次長。"],["何次長晉滄：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：次長好。關於地熱我在1月的時候有來到這裡做質詢，當時也是部長不在，改請次長。所以這個部分我再跟您重新表達一下我上次質詢的一個訴求。當時這位應該就不是你了嘛，他退休了。"],["何次長晉滄：是。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：當時是提到要做出一個行政指引，要有一個爭端的協調平臺，然後希望有政府投資、部落入股的觀念進來，也希望有一個地熱專區的試辦點、辦理公聽會，形成一種新型態的夥伴關係。今天看到你們的業報，再生能源發展條例已經新增了地熱專章，地熱能探勘與開發許可及管理辦法也已經公告施行，這裡面關於申請的一些條件也很清楚地寫著，在原住民族土地或部落的公有土地上，要有部落會議的相關文件。但我今天是來關心，因為現在我們看到有很多地方做地熱開發，他們選擇的是私有的原保地、私人的土地，所以就會有一些些意見、陳情、紛爭。時至今日，其實大家討論了那麼久，大家都承認地熱不屬於私人的地主，是屬於共享的資源，現在大家慢慢有這個觀念了，因為地熱不同於其他的能源開發。所以我想要請教一下次長，在這種沒有辦法突破現行私有地，我們要來踐行部落諮商同意機制這樣的一個狀況下，您認為有沒有什麼好的替代方案，可以讓我們在私有土地開發地熱的時候確保部落的權益？我想聽聽看次長您的看法。"],["何次長晉滄：報告委員，這個是按照原住民族基本法的規定，我是不是請我們李代理署長來跟您報告一下？"],["伍麗華Saidhai 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