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審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「學校營養飲食供餐法草案」案。(二十一) \t審查委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「高級中等以下學校供餐及飲食教育條例草案」案。(二十二) 審查委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」案。(二十三) 審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案。\n二、審查「運動產業發展條例」：\n(一) 審查委員柯志恩等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(二) 審查委員張智倫等 18 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(三) 審查委員洪孟楷等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(四) 審查委員王鴻薇等 19 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。(五) 審查委員林倩綺等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第四條條文修正草案」案。(六) 審查委員沈發惠等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二條條文修正草案」案。(七) 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332.959, \"text\": \"我們剛剛講的很明顯三章EQ但是三章EQ本來應該是在tomato是在番茄上面的結果卻是用在別的地方上面這樣三章EQ的管制是不是也有所謂的疏失呢所以這種種的方面來講\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 318.587, \"end\": 318.887, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 318.887, \"end\": 319.007, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 319.007, \"end\": 319.107, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 319.107, \"end\": 319.728, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"顯\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 319.728, \"end\": 320.529, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"章\", \"start\": 320.529, \"end\": 320.549, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"E\", \"start\": 320.549, \"end\": 320.989, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"Q\", \"start\": 320.989, \"end\": 321.469, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 321.469, \"end\": 321.59, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 321.59, \"end\": 321.75, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 321.75, 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\"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 330.657, \"end\": 330.798, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 330.798, \"end\": 330.858, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 330.858, \"end\": 331.038, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 331.038, \"end\": 331.278, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 331.278, \"end\": 331.398, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"疏\", \"start\": 331.398, \"end\": 331.618, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"失\", \"start\": 331.618, \"end\": 331.818, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 331.818, \"end\": 332.399, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 332.399, \"end\": 332.499, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 332.499, \"end\": 332.619, \"score\": 0.623}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 332.619, \"end\": 332.779, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 332.779, \"end\": 332.939, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 332.939, \"end\": 332.959, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}]}, {\"start\": 334.921, \"end\": 362.944, \"text\": \"為了真的要保證我們食材的品質而且也要防止未來像剛剛這種老實講蠻可笑蠻可恨的事情發生而且我們也要追究責任老實講追究責任可能是最後面但是我們要防止未來這些事情發生甚至如果不合格的廠商他在環境上面還在各方面不行的時候我們必須在這之前在這次我們的學校公參法上面就直接修法把它列入中央的責任這樣子把這\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 334.921, \"end\": 335.622, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 335.622, \"end\": 335.782, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 335.782, \"end\": 335.842, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 335.842, \"end\": 336.102, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 336.102, \"end\": 336.683, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 336.683, \"end\": 337.063, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"食\", \"start\": 337.063, \"end\": 337.363, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"材\", \"start\": 337.363, \"end\": 337.583, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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\"start\": 359.941, \"end\": 360.021, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 360.021, \"end\": 360.221, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 360.221, \"end\": 360.502, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 360.502, \"end\": 360.682, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 360.682, \"end\": 360.802, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 360.802, \"end\": 360.942, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 360.942, \"end\": 361.042, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 361.042, \"end\": 361.222, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 361.222, \"end\": 361.382, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 361.382, \"end\": 361.563, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 361.563, \"end\": 361.943, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 361.943, \"end\": 362.583, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 362.583, \"end\": 362.924, 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711.159, \"end\": 711.399, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 711.399, \"end\": 711.559, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 711.559, \"end\": 711.579, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,875 --> 00:00:11,342\n好謝謝主席有請次長請次長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:17,267 --> 00:00:45,950\n林委員好市長本席是基隆市選區的立法委員那其實我記得沒有錯的話在2020年我們奧運的羽球拿到我們奧運的這個就是羽毛球拿到金牌的時候那時候時任總統蔡英文說我們要有一個羽毛球的國手訓練中心在基隆市的基隆高中那現在後來2024年去年我們又得到了世界冠軍\n\n3\n00:00:47,111 --> 00:01:06,688\n那我就很好奇說有兩任總統來去背書的這個羽球國手訓練中心在基隆現在進度怎麼樣那我請詳細進度我請署長回答好不好可以嗎我也好那這關於此案呢我們去年一整年的努力那我們其實已經完成幕僚作業目前已經在行政院了\n\n4\n00:01:07,148 --> 00:01:27,958\n好那如果可以有任何進度的話我會再跟院長來討論因為這個案子對於我們基隆人還蠻重要的不只是因為說基隆是一個相對來講這個羽都之外而且另外一方面這個現在羚羊配都已經變絕配了嘛都已經拆夥了但是我們很尷尬的就是說我們要答應他們兩屆世界冠軍的這個羽球\n\n5\n00:01:29,819 --> 00:01:48,356\n國手蓄電中心到目前還沒有有著落那其實讓所有關心羽毛球甚至關心體育的人其實認為這件事其實是蠻可惜的啦所以我希望說市長在這邊也可能跟內閣在那邊討論一下好謝謝再來是有關我們今天才講到的這個學校公餐法\n\n6\n00:01:49,437 --> 00:02:03,452\n本席來自基隆所以在基隆在去年在過去兩年之間發生的主要有三件這個有關食安方面的這些議題那食安方面議題呢裡面有兩件本席覺得很值得來給我們這個\n\n7\n00:02:05,294 --> 00:02:18,830\n在這個學校公參法草案裡面來納入我們考量因為第一個是在2023年2月14號的時候因為有番茄它是有裡面驗出來有這個未核准的農藥\n\n8\n00:02:20,211 --> 00:02:45,217\n所以後來被校方給退貨然後並報到教育處裡面去而且後來發現說這味這個農藥上這個番茄上面居然用的是假的QRcode那這點其實其實是蠻重要的第二件事情還有另外一個案子也跟這個食物我們未來食材的來源我們要加緊追蹤有關也就是在去年的11月8號\n\n9\n00:02:46,917 --> 00:03:07,750\n居然有小朋友在吃學校午餐的梅干扣肉裡面不小心咬到兩公分的針頭那這件事情後來我們去查明之後才知道說這個食物食材的來源商他在裝包的時候在裝包進CAS的時候他並沒有經過金屬探測器\n\n10\n00:03:13,291 --> 00:03:30,063\n這兩個來源商嚴格講起來都不是基隆的廠商那變成是說教育處要直接去查也費了很大一番功夫我知道這個已經進入好像民法的這個狀態這個是一個食材管理的問題對那我也非常關心我們是不是請榮良署來解釋一下或者他的瞭解程度好請他先說明\n\n11\n00:03:32,209 --> 00:03:54,208\n針對這個QRCode的這個部分我們針對這個實材真實性這個部分也都有到校園裡面對這個實材去抽檢所以那個部分是我們有去主動去查出來的後續也會針對這個供應端這個部分去做追蹤的處分\n\n12\n00:03:55,202 --> 00:04:13,425\n我為什麼會把這個議題拿出來呢因為這個食材其實不是在基隆市當地而是這個食材他們所合格的廠商其實遍佈全國而且廠商其實沒幾個因為要符合我們營養午餐的標準其實營養午餐標準是相當嚴格的\n\n13\n00:04:14,406 --> 00:04:31,064\n但是尷尬的是說再怎麼嚴格都還是會出現狀況而這又是我們剛剛小羅委員直接講說孩子的未來不能等孩子是國家的未來那我們總不希望說孩子未來吃到的食物導致他們身心受創\n\n14\n00:04:32,606 --> 00:05:01,292\n所以在這個前提之下我會認為說在這一次的這個學校公參法草案在擬定的時候如果有行政院的版本請務必把這個tracking也就是所謂追溯食物來源追溯食材來源這件事情要納進去變成是中央政府的主責而不是讓地方政府來承擔因為地方政府舉例基隆市我們只能查到基隆市的廠商如果是這兩件案子它的\n\n15\n00:05:03,113 --> 00:05:15,304\n這個食材供應商並不是來自基隆市而是來自台北市、新北市那基隆市政府要透過其他機制透過其他平台去查這些東西的時候就變得相對困難而這一點來講甚至這樣講\n\n16\n00:05:18,587 --> 00:05:32,959\n我們剛剛講的很明顯三章EQ但是三章EQ本來應該是在tomato是在番茄上面的結果卻是用在別的地方上面這樣三章EQ的管制是不是也有所謂的疏失呢所以這種種的方面來講\n\n17\n00:05:34,921 --> 00:06:02,944\n為了真的要保證我們食材的品質而且也要防止未來像剛剛這種老實講蠻可笑蠻可恨的事情發生而且我們也要追究責任老實講追究責任可能是最後面但是我們要防止未來這些事情發生甚至如果不合格的廠商他在環境上面還在各方面不行的時候我們必須在這之前在這次我們的學校公參法上面就直接修法把它列入中央的責任這樣子把這\n\n18\n00:06:03,424 --> 00:06:31,574\n把這個中央的法規放進去的時候所有整個業界才會跟著復合我們才會引起足夠的重視市長你認為是對的嗎委員我想你這個關係的角度非常好就是也證明了一個事情就是說其實我們本來就有三張EQ的制度那這個管理的問題執行的問題出了層面事實上我們即使納入法那個管理的部分也要落實那三張EQ就包括這個食品的檢驗的相關的制度我想龍娘署的這個代表\n\n19\n00:06:31,874 --> 00:06:50,241\n非常清楚你剛才提到的問題為什麼會發生他是不是要來簡單說我會認為未來這主責單位不應該是地方教育署或教育局應該是所謂中央單位來去做主責因為這方面來講如果中央願意定這麼嚴格的標準那中央就要負起相應對的責任才是\n\n20\n00:06:52,532 --> 00:07:08,611\n跟委員報告張Q的使用規範如果他違規使用我們查到的話就針對他違規的事項會去做處理我認為未來整個檢查食材的SOP必須很清楚\n\n21\n00:07:09,071 --> 00:07:35,358\n因為在地方的代理商或經銷商他不會去看到如果有CIS的認證之後然後他還去把它打開來拆開來重新再看說裡面有多少的裡面有多少東西再重新做檢驗這樣時間來講也是來不及的但是如果說我們在前頭SOP就做好主則就做好那相對來講會讓中間在地方的經銷商或代理商能夠比較輕鬆的去處理這些食材\n\n22\n00:07:36,818 --> 00:07:53,182\n對我想這個部分食材安全分工上面很清楚在源頭部分農業部會去針對章Q的使用做管理我想這個法因為我們今天討論是學校公差案這個要很明確主責跟SOP必須放在裡面這樣未來我們全國會有一致性的標準\n\n23\n00:07:59,844 --> 00:08:13,497\n今天發生在基隆這兩個案子未來有可能在我們不注意的時候發生在全國的小學裡面那這一點來講對於我們民意代表來說我覺得這個是我們必須強烈要求的案子\n\n24\n00:08:13,769 --> 00:08:39,560\n我想台灣的張Q其實非常嚴謹就是說他也會有抽查例行的抽查我所知道的抽查也會有罰那這個案件他主動發生了他們也會主動去罰就是說他的這個罰者是都有的而且都有名單張Q可以溯源他就是說可以知道是哪一家犯的就比以前好就是說他的張Q制度不管是CS也好或者是有機也好或者是可溯源的農產品也好這三張其實都是會透過那個QRcode那個Q能夠連結\n\n25\n00:08:41,881 --> 00:09:11,013\n所以他們除了主動清查我必須要說市長這個問題是未來我希望說直接列入法裡面不是說未來我們解釋我們發生什麼事情因為已經有冒用過了就表示有更多冒用過以常理來講今天有一個冒用的例子就表示市面上有更多冒用的例子正在流傳而我們只是剛好沒有查到而已所以這件事我覺得我認為說主責SOP查清這三個事情必須放在法規放在這個法裡面既然我們要訂學校公參法\n\n26\n00:09:11,713 --> 00:09:36,648\n那我們就把這個放進房屋現在都有了現在這三個制度都有那可能要嚴格執行那SOP也要嚴格執行主責單位不應該是地方不應該是地方證一起來跨部會合作最後一個小小的問題其實我還有一個蠻長的不過還有一個小小的問題請問一下國光獎章或獎金的分發辦法第17條已經多久沒有修了\n\n27\n00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:43,901\n你是說獎金的對國光獎金我為什麼這樣問呢我們如果說要對於運動產業要對於運動產業來做推廣那運動產業的職業運動員最後面能夠代表國家能夠在跟國際之間競爭應該是最高的榮耀\n\n28\n00:09:56,866 --> 00:10:17,361\n很多人說過中華隊或是國家代表隊的球衣是很重的甚至有人寧願不幫美國打19歲以下的國家代表隊會願意回來幫我們台灣打但是這個前提的話最近我就問一個職業運動員說那他們有什麼需要我幫忙講的他說最小的一個\n\n29\n00:10:18,820 --> 00:10:41,537\n目前國光獎金是用點數來去算的不到50點不准發放那如果剛好有一些國手是在不到50點是在一個點數值在30點左右他整個國手生涯就結束的話那想請問他們這個獎金1.1萬塊的國光獎金是否還能拿得到呢我請那個署長來說\n\n30\n00:10:42,506 --> 00:10:57,860\n報告委員那個是早期的制度了現在已經不是這樣子了那現在是怎麼樣呢現在就是針對他的運動成就我們直接就是發放這個獎金所以就是如果他是有能夠如果他是實質上我想您的那個那位陳青仁的個案他應該是很多年前好\n\n31\n00:10:58,420 --> 00:11:05,943\n在這個案子它整個法的更新之前委員如果有個案可以直接來因為國手來講的話如果我們正要推廣運動產業我那時候在國事論壇也特地幫我們的運動員發聲幫退休的運動員發聲那如果我們要給他們一個標杆幫國家來去出戰各個競賽的運動員應該更受到重視\n\n32\n00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:33,485\n一句話嘛錢給的不夠心受委屈了那我們台灣的運動市場並沒有像美國日本來的大但是我們基本的尊重有時候很悲哀的現金也是一種基本的尊重如果連這點都不給的話\n\n33\n00:11:34,206 --> 00:11:51,579\n甚至在本來在我記得聽說有保險都出問題的時候其實這樣對於整個運動的風氣就很不好那我希望說我們今天張廖次長是負責運動的那我希望您跟國體署可以在未來在運動產業的發展上面注意這一點好以上謝謝委員的關心我們會努力謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9875\t11342\t好 謝謝主席 有請次長請次長備詢\n17267\t45950\t林委員好市長本席是基隆市選區的立法委員那其實我記得沒有錯的話在2020年我們奧運的羽球拿到我們奧運的這個就是羽毛球拿到金牌的時候那時候時任總統蔡英文說我們要有一個羽毛球的國手訓練中心在基隆市的基隆高中那現在後來2024年去年我們又得到了世界冠軍\n47111\t66688\t那我就很好奇說有兩任總統來去背書的這個羽球國手訓練中心在基隆現在進度怎麼樣那我請詳細進度我請署長回答好不好可以嗎我也好那這關於此案呢我們去年一整年的努力那我們其實已經完成幕僚作業目前已經在行政院了\n67148\t87958\t好那如果可以有任何進度的話我會再跟院長來討論因為這個案子對於我們基隆人還蠻重要的不只是因為說基隆是一個相對來講這個羽都之外而且另外一方面這個現在羚羊配都已經變絕配了嘛都已經拆夥了但是我們很尷尬的就是說我們要答應他們兩屆世界冠軍的這個羽球\n89819\t108356\t國手蓄電中心到目前還沒有有著落那其實讓所有關心羽毛球甚至關心體育的人其實認為這件事其實是蠻可惜的啦所以我希望說市長在這邊也可能跟內閣在那邊討論一下好 謝謝再來是有關我們今天才講到的這個學校公餐法\n109437\t123452\t本席來自基隆所以在基隆在去年在過去兩年之間發生的主要有三件這個有關食安方面的這些議題那食安方面議題呢裡面有兩件本席覺得很值得來給我們這個\n125294\t138830\t在這個學校公參法草案裡面來納入我們考量因為第一個是在2023年2月14號的時候因為有番茄它是有裡面驗出來有這個未核准的農藥\n140211\t165217\t所以後來被校方給退貨然後並報到教育處裡面去而且後來發現說這味這個農藥上這個番茄上面居然用的是假的QR code那這點其實其實是蠻重要的第二件事情還有另外一個案子也跟這個食物我們未來食材的來源我們要加緊追蹤有關也就是在去年的11月8號\n166917\t187750\t居然有小朋友在吃學校午餐的梅干扣肉裡面不小心咬到兩公分的針頭那這件事情後來我們去查明之後才知道說這個食物食材的來源商他在裝包的時候在裝包進CAS的時候他並沒有經過金屬探測器\n193291\t210063\t這兩個來源商嚴格講起來都不是基隆的廠商那變成是說教育處要直接去查也費了很大一番功夫我知道這個已經進入好像民法的這個狀態這個是一個食材管理的問題對那我也非常關心我們是不是請榮良署來解釋一下或者他的瞭解程度好 請他先說明\n212209\t234208\t針對這個QR Code的這個部分我們針對這個實材真實性這個部分也都有到校園裡面對這個實材去抽檢所以那個部分是我們有去主動去查出來的後續也會針對這個供應端這個部分去做追蹤的處分\n235202\t253425\t我為什麼會把這個議題拿出來呢因為這個食材其實不是在基隆市當地而是這個食材他們所合格的廠商其實遍佈全國而且廠商其實沒幾個因為要符合我們營養午餐的標準其實營養午餐標準是相當嚴格的\n254406\t271064\t但是尷尬的是說再怎麼嚴格都還是會出現狀況而這又是我們剛剛小羅委員直接講說孩子的未來不能等孩子是國家的未來那我們總不希望說孩子未來吃到的食物導致他們身心受創\n272606\t301292\t所以在這個前提之下我會認為說在這一次的這個學校公參法草案在擬定的時候如果有行政院的版本請務必把這個tracking也就是所謂追溯食物來源追溯食材來源這件事情要納進去變成是中央政府的主責而不是讓地方政府來承擔因為地方政府舉例基隆市我們只能查到基隆市的廠商如果是這兩件案子它的\n303113\t315304\t這個食材供應商並不是來自基隆市而是來自台北市、新北市那基隆市政府要透過其他機制透過其他平台去查這些東西的時候就變得相對困難而這一點來講甚至這樣講\n318587\t332959\t我們剛剛講的很明顯三章EQ但是三章EQ本來應該是在tomato是在番茄上面的結果卻是用在別的地方上面這樣三章EQ的管制是不是也有所謂的疏失呢所以這種種的方面來講\n334921\t362944\t為了真的要保證我們食材的品質而且也要防止未來像剛剛這種老實講蠻可笑蠻可恨的事情發生而且我們也要追究責任老實講追究責任可能是最後面但是我們要防止未來這些事情發生甚至如果不合格的廠商他在環境上面還在各方面不行的時候我們必須在這之前在這次我們的學校公參法上面就直接修法把它列入中央的責任這樣子把這\n363424\t391574\t把這個中央的法規放進去的時候所有整個業界才會跟著復合我們才會引起足夠的重視市長你認為是對的嗎委員我想你這個關係的角度非常好就是也證明了一個事情就是說其實我們本來就有三張EQ的制度那這個管理的問題執行的問題出了層面事實上我們即使納入法那個管理的部分也要落實那三張EQ就包括這個食品的檢驗的相關的制度我想龍娘署的這個代表\n391874\t410241\t非常清楚你剛才提到的問題為什麼會發生他是不是要來簡單說我會認為未來這主責單位不應該是地方教育署或教育局應該是所謂中央單位來去做主責因為這方面來講如果中央願意定這麼嚴格的標準那中央就要負起相應對的責任才是\n412532\t428611\t跟委員報告張Q的使用規範如果他違規使用我們查到的話就針對他違規的事項會去做處理我認為未來整個檢查食材的SOP必須很清楚\n429071\t455358\t因為在地方的代理商或經銷商他不會去看到如果有CIS的認證之後然後他還去把它打開來拆開來重新再看說裡面有多少的裡面有多少東西再重新做檢驗這樣時間來講也是來不及的但是如果說我們在前頭SOP就做好 主則就做好那相對來講會讓中間在地方的經銷商或代理商能夠比較輕鬆的去處理這些食材\n456818\t473182\t對我想這個部分食材安全分工上面很清楚在源頭部分農業部會去針對章Q的使用做管理我想這個法因為我們今天討論是學校公差案這個要很明確主責跟SOP必須放在裡面這樣未來我們全國會有一致性的標準\n479844\t493497\t今天發生在基隆這兩個案子未來有可能在我們不注意的時候發生在全國的小學裡面那這一點來講對於我們民意代表來說我覺得這個是我們必須強烈要求的案子\n493769\t519560\t我想台灣的張Q其實非常嚴謹就是說他也會有抽查例行的抽查我所知道的抽查也會有罰那這個案件他主動發生了他們也會主動去罰就是說他的這個罰者是都有的而且都有名單張Q可以溯源他就是說可以知道是哪一家犯的就比以前好就是說他的張Q制度不管是CS也好或者是有機也好或者是可溯源的農產品也好這三張其實都是會透過那個QR code那個Q能夠連結\n521881\t551013\t所以他們除了主動清查我必須要說市長這個問題是未來我希望說直接列入法裡面不是說未來我們解釋我們發生什麼事情因為已經有冒用過了就表示有更多冒用過以常理來講今天有一個冒用的例子就表示市面上有更多冒用的例子正在流傳而我們只是剛好沒有查到而已所以這件事我覺得我認為說主責SOP查清這三個事情必須放在法規放在這個法裡面既然我們要訂學校公參法\n551713\t576648\t那我們就把這個放進房屋現在都有了現在這三個制度都有那可能要嚴格執行那SOP也要嚴格執行主責單位不應該是地方不應該是地方證一起來跨部會合作最後一個小小的問題其實我還有一個蠻長的不過還有一個小小的問題請問一下國光獎章或獎金的分發辦法第17條已經多久沒有修了\n577679\t583901\t你是說獎金的對 國光獎金我為什麼這樣問呢我們如果說要對於運動產業要對於運動產業來做推廣那運動產業的職業運動員最後面能夠代表國家能夠在跟國際之間競爭應該是最高的榮耀\n596866\t617361\t很多人說過中華隊或是國家代表隊的球衣是很重的甚至有人寧願不幫美國打19歲以下的國家代表隊會願意回來幫我們台灣打但是這個前提的話最近我就問一個職業運動員說那他們有什麼需要我幫忙講的他說最小的一個\n618820\t641537\t目前國光獎金是用點數來去算的不到50點不准發放那如果剛好有一些國手是在不到50點是在一個點數值在30點左右他整個國手生涯就結束的話那想請問他們這個獎金1.1萬塊的國光獎金是否還能拿得到呢我請那個署長來說\n642506\t657860\t報告委員那個是早期的制度了現在已經不是這樣子了那現在是怎麼樣呢現在就是針對他的運動成就我們直接就是發放這個獎金所以就是如果他是有能夠如果他是實質上我想您的那個那位陳青仁的個案他應該是很多年前好\n658420\t665943\t在這個案子它整個法的更新之前委員如果有個案可以直接來因為國手來講的話如果我們正要推廣運動產業我那時候在國事論壇也特地幫我們的運動員發聲幫退休的運動員發聲那如果我們要給他們一個標杆幫國家來去出戰各個競賽的運動員應該更受到重視\n679750\t693485\t一句話嘛錢給的不夠心受委屈了那我們台灣的運動市場並沒有像美國日本來的大但是我們基本的尊重有時候很悲哀的現金也是一種基本的尊重如果連這點都不給的話\n694206\t711579\t甚至在本來在我記得聽說有保險都出問題的時候其實這樣對於整個運動的風氣就很不好那我希望說我們今天張廖次長是負責運動的那我希望您跟國體署可以在未來在運動產業的發展上面注意這一點好 以上謝謝委員的關心我們會努力謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 有請次長請次長備詢\n林委員好市長本席是基隆市選區的立法委員那其實我記得沒有錯的話在2020年我們奧運的羽球拿到我們奧運的這個就是羽毛球拿到金牌的時候那時候時任總統蔡英文說我們要有一個羽毛球的國手訓練中心在基隆市的基隆高中那現在後來2024年去年我們又得到了世界冠軍\n那我就很好奇說有兩任總統來去背書的這個羽球國手訓練中心在基隆現在進度怎麼樣那我請詳細進度我請署長回答好不好可以嗎我也好那這關於此案呢我們去年一整年的努力那我們其實已經完成幕僚作業目前已經在行政院了\n好那如果可以有任何進度的話我會再跟院長來討論因為這個案子對於我們基隆人還蠻重要的不只是因為說基隆是一個相對來講這個羽都之外而且另外一方面這個現在羚羊配都已經變絕配了嘛都已經拆夥了但是我們很尷尬的就是說我們要答應他們兩屆世界冠軍的這個羽球\n國手蓄電中心到目前還沒有有著落那其實讓所有關心羽毛球甚至關心體育的人其實認為這件事其實是蠻可惜的啦所以我希望說市長在這邊也可能跟內閣在那邊討論一下好 謝謝再來是有關我們今天才講到的這個學校公餐法\n本席來自基隆所以在基隆在去年在過去兩年之間發生的主要有三件這個有關食安方面的這些議題那食安方面議題呢裡面有兩件本席覺得很值得來給我們這個\n在這個學校公參法草案裡面來納入我們考量因為第一個是在2023年2月14號的時候因為有番茄它是有裡面驗出來有這個未核准的農藥\n所以後來被校方給退貨然後並報到教育處裡面去而且後來發現說這味這個農藥上這個番茄上面居然用的是假的QR code那這點其實其實是蠻重要的第二件事情還有另外一個案子也跟這個食物我們未來食材的來源我們要加緊追蹤有關也就是在去年的11月8號\n居然有小朋友在吃學校午餐的梅干扣肉裡面不小心咬到兩公分的針頭那這件事情後來我們去查明之後才知道說這個食物食材的來源商他在裝包的時候在裝包進CAS的時候他並沒有經過金屬探測器\n這兩個來源商嚴格講起來都不是基隆的廠商那變成是說教育處要直接去查也費了很大一番功夫我知道這個已經進入好像民法的這個狀態這個是一個食材管理的問題對那我也非常關心我們是不是請榮良署來解釋一下或者他的瞭解程度好 請他先說明\n針對這個QR Code的這個部分我們針對這個實材真實性這個部分也都有到校園裡面對這個實材去抽檢所以那個部分是我們有去主動去查出來的後續也會針對這個供應端這個部分去做追蹤的處分\n我為什麼會把這個議題拿出來呢因為這個食材其實不是在基隆市當地而是這個食材他們所合格的廠商其實遍佈全國而且廠商其實沒幾個因為要符合我們營養午餐的標準其實營養午餐標準是相當嚴格的\n但是尷尬的是說再怎麼嚴格都還是會出現狀況而這又是我們剛剛小羅委員直接講說孩子的未來不能等孩子是國家的未來那我們總不希望說孩子未來吃到的食物導致他們身心受創\n所以在這個前提之下我會認為說在這一次的這個學校公參法草案在擬定的時候如果有行政院的版本請務必把這個tracking也就是所謂追溯食物來源追溯食材來源這件事情要納進去變成是中央政府的主責而不是讓地方政府來承擔因為地方政府舉例基隆市我們只能查到基隆市的廠商如果是這兩件案子它的\n這個食材供應商並不是來自基隆市而是來自台北市、新北市那基隆市政府要透過其他機制透過其他平台去查這些東西的時候就變得相對困難而這一點來講甚至這樣講\n我們剛剛講的很明顯三章EQ但是三章EQ本來應該是在tomato是在番茄上面的結果卻是用在別的地方上面這樣三章EQ的管制是不是也有所謂的疏失呢所以這種種的方面來講\n為了真的要保證我們食材的品質而且也要防止未來像剛剛這種老實講蠻可笑蠻可恨的事情發生而且我們也要追究責任老實講追究責任可能是最後面但是我們要防止未來這些事情發生甚至如果不合格的廠商他在環境上面還在各方面不行的時候我們必須在這之前在這次我們的學校公參法上面就直接修法把它列入中央的責任這樣子把這\n把這個中央的法規放進去的時候所有整個業界才會跟著復合我們才會引起足夠的重視市長你認為是對的嗎委員我想你這個關係的角度非常好就是也證明了一個事情就是說其實我們本來就有三張EQ的制度那這個管理的問題執行的問題出了層面事實上我們即使納入法那個管理的部分也要落實那三張EQ就包括這個食品的檢驗的相關的制度我想龍娘署的這個代表\n非常清楚你剛才提到的問題為什麼會發生他是不是要來簡單說我會認為未來這主責單位不應該是地方教育署或教育局應該是所謂中央單位來去做主責因為這方面來講如果中央願意定這麼嚴格的標準那中央就要負起相應對的責任才是\n跟委員報告張Q的使用規範如果他違規使用我們查到的話就針對他違規的事項會去做處理我認為未來整個檢查食材的SOP必須很清楚\n因為在地方的代理商或經銷商他不會去看到如果有CIS的認證之後然後他還去把它打開來拆開來重新再看說裡面有多少的裡面有多少東西再重新做檢驗這樣時間來講也是來不及的但是如果說我們在前頭SOP就做好 主則就做好那相對來講會讓中間在地方的經銷商或代理商能夠比較輕鬆的去處理這些食材\n對我想這個部分食材安全分工上面很清楚在源頭部分農業部會去針對章Q的使用做管理我想這個法因為我們今天討論是學校公差案這個要很明確主責跟SOP必須放在裡面這樣未來我們全國會有一致性的標準\n今天發生在基隆這兩個案子未來有可能在我們不注意的時候發生在全國的小學裡面那這一點來講對於我們民意代表來說我覺得這個是我們必須強烈要求的案子\n我想台灣的張Q其實非常嚴謹就是說他也會有抽查例行的抽查我所知道的抽查也會有罰那這個案件他主動發生了他們也會主動去罰就是說他的這個罰者是都有的而且都有名單張Q可以溯源他就是說可以知道是哪一家犯的就比以前好就是說他的張Q制度不管是CS也好或者是有機也好或者是可溯源的農產品也好這三張其實都是會透過那個QR code那個Q能夠連結\n所以他們除了主動清查我必須要說市長這個問題是未來我希望說直接列入法裡面不是說未來我們解釋我們發生什麼事情因為已經有冒用過了就表示有更多冒用過以常理來講今天有一個冒用的例子就表示市面上有更多冒用的例子正在流傳而我們只是剛好沒有查到而已所以這件事我覺得我認為說主責SOP查清這三個事情必須放在法規放在這個法裡面既然我們要訂學校公參法\n那我們就把這個放進房屋現在都有了現在這三個制度都有那可能要嚴格執行那SOP也要嚴格執行主責單位不應該是地方不應該是地方證一起來跨部會合作最後一個小小的問題其實我還有一個蠻長的不過還有一個小小的問題請問一下國光獎章或獎金的分發辦法第17條已經多久沒有修了\n你是說獎金的對 國光獎金我為什麼這樣問呢我們如果說要對於運動產業要對於運動產業來做推廣那運動產業的職業運動員最後面能夠代表國家能夠在跟國際之間競爭應該是最高的榮耀\n很多人說過中華隊或是國家代表隊的球衣是很重的甚至有人寧願不幫美國打19歲以下的國家代表隊會願意回來幫我們台灣打但是這個前提的話最近我就問一個職業運動員說那他們有什麼需要我幫忙講的他說最小的一個\n目前國光獎金是用點數來去算的不到50點不准發放那如果剛好有一些國手是在不到50點是在一個點數值在30點左右他整個國手生涯就結束的話那想請問他們這個獎金1.1萬塊的國光獎金是否還能拿得到呢我請那個署長來說\n報告委員那個是早期的制度了現在已經不是這樣子了那現在是怎麼樣呢現在就是針對他的運動成就我們直接就是發放這個獎金所以就是如果他是有能夠如果他是實質上我想您的那個那位陳青仁的個案他應該是很多年前好\n在這個案子它整個法的更新之前委員如果有個案可以直接來因為國手來講的話如果我們正要推廣運動產業我那時候在國事論壇也特地幫我們的運動員發聲幫退休的運動員發聲那如果我們要給他們一個標杆幫國家來去出戰各個競賽的運動員應該更受到重視\n一句話嘛錢給的不夠心受委屈了那我們台灣的運動市場並沒有像美國日本來的大但是我們基本的尊重有時候很悲哀的現金也是一種基本的尊重如果連這點都不給的話\n甚至在本來在我記得聽說有保險都出問題的時候其實這樣對於整個運動的風氣就很不好那我希望說我們今天張廖次長是負責運動的那我希望您跟國體署可以在未來在運動產業的發展上面注意這一點好 以上謝謝委員的關心我們會努力謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.875 --> 00:11.342\n好謝謝主席有請次長請次長備詢\n\n00:17.267 --> 00:45.950\n林委員好市長本席是基隆市選區的立法委員那其實我記得沒有錯的話在2020年我們奧運的羽球拿到我們奧運的這個就是羽毛球拿到金牌的時候那時候時任總統蔡英文說我們要有一個羽毛球的國手訓練中心在基隆市的基隆高中那現在後來2024年去年我們又得到了世界冠軍\n\n00:47.111 --> 01:06.688\n那我就很好奇說有兩任總統來去背書的這個羽球國手訓練中心在基隆現在進度怎麼樣那我請詳細進度我請署長回答好不好可以嗎我也好那這關於此案呢我們去年一整年的努力那我們其實已經完成幕僚作業目前已經在行政院了\n\n01:07.148 --> 01:27.958\n好那如果可以有任何進度的話我會再跟院長來討論因為這個案子對於我們基隆人還蠻重要的不只是因為說基隆是一個相對來講這個羽都之外而且另外一方面這個現在羚羊配都已經變絕配了嘛都已經拆夥了但是我們很尷尬的就是說我們要答應他們兩屆世界冠軍的這個羽球\n\n01:29.819 --> 01:48.356\n國手蓄電中心到目前還沒有有著落那其實讓所有關心羽毛球甚至關心體育的人其實認為這件事其實是蠻可惜的啦所以我希望說市長在這邊也可能跟內閣在那邊討論一下好謝謝再來是有關我們今天才講到的這個學校公餐法\n\n01:49.437 --> 02:03.452\n本席來自基隆所以在基隆在去年在過去兩年之間發生的主要有三件這個有關食安方面的這些議題那食安方面議題呢裡面有兩件本席覺得很值得來給我們這個\n\n02:05.294 --> 02:18.830\n在這個學校公參法草案裡面來納入我們考量因為第一個是在2023年2月14號的時候因為有番茄它是有裡面驗出來有這個未核准的農藥\n\n02:20.211 --> 02:45.217\n所以後來被校方給退貨然後並報到教育處裡面去而且後來發現說這味這個農藥上這個番茄上面居然用的是假的QRcode那這點其實其實是蠻重要的第二件事情還有另外一個案子也跟這個食物我們未來食材的來源我們要加緊追蹤有關也就是在去年的11月8號\n\n02:46.917 --> 03:07.750\n居然有小朋友在吃學校午餐的梅干扣肉裡面不小心咬到兩公分的針頭那這件事情後來我們去查明之後才知道說這個食物食材的來源商他在裝包的時候在裝包進CAS的時候他並沒有經過金屬探測器\n\n03:13.291 --> 03:30.063\n這兩個來源商嚴格講起來都不是基隆的廠商那變成是說教育處要直接去查也費了很大一番功夫我知道這個已經進入好像民法的這個狀態這個是一個食材管理的問題對那我也非常關心我們是不是請榮良署來解釋一下或者他的瞭解程度好請他先說明\n\n03:32.209 --> 03:54.208\n針對這個QRCode的這個部分我們針對這個實材真實性這個部分也都有到校園裡面對這個實材去抽檢所以那個部分是我們有去主動去查出來的後續也會針對這個供應端這個部分去做追蹤的處分\n\n03:55.202 --> 04:13.425\n我為什麼會把這個議題拿出來呢因為這個食材其實不是在基隆市當地而是這個食材他們所合格的廠商其實遍佈全國而且廠商其實沒幾個因為要符合我們營養午餐的標準其實營養午餐標準是相當嚴格的\n\n04:14.406 --> 04:31.064\n但是尷尬的是說再怎麼嚴格都還是會出現狀況而這又是我們剛剛小羅委員直接講說孩子的未來不能等孩子是國家的未來那我們總不希望說孩子未來吃到的食物導致他們身心受創\n\n04:32.606 --> 05:01.292\n所以在這個前提之下我會認為說在這一次的這個學校公參法草案在擬定的時候如果有行政院的版本請務必把這個tracking也就是所謂追溯食物來源追溯食材來源這件事情要納進去變成是中央政府的主責而不是讓地方政府來承擔因為地方政府舉例基隆市我們只能查到基隆市的廠商如果是這兩件案子它的\n\n05:03.113 --> 05:15.304\n這個食材供應商並不是來自基隆市而是來自台北市、新北市那基隆市政府要透過其他機制透過其他平台去查這些東西的時候就變得相對困難而這一點來講甚至這樣講\n\n05:18.587 --> 05:32.959\n我們剛剛講的很明顯三章EQ但是三章EQ本來應該是在tomato是在番茄上面的結果卻是用在別的地方上面這樣三章EQ的管制是不是也有所謂的疏失呢所以這種種的方面來講\n\n05:34.921 --> 06:02.944\n為了真的要保證我們食材的品質而且也要防止未來像剛剛這種老實講蠻可笑蠻可恨的事情發生而且我們也要追究責任老實講追究責任可能是最後面但是我們要防止未來這些事情發生甚至如果不合格的廠商他在環境上面還在各方面不行的時候我們必須在這之前在這次我們的學校公參法上面就直接修法把它列入中央的責任這樣子把這\n\n06:03.424 --> 06:31.574\n把這個中央的法規放進去的時候所有整個業界才會跟著復合我們才會引起足夠的重視市長你認為是對的嗎委員我想你這個關係的角度非常好就是也證明了一個事情就是說其實我們本來就有三張EQ的制度那這個管理的問題執行的問題出了層面事實上我們即使納入法那個管理的部分也要落實那三張EQ就包括這個食品的檢驗的相關的制度我想龍娘署的這個代表\n\n06:31.874 --> 06:50.241\n非常清楚你剛才提到的問題為什麼會發生他是不是要來簡單說我會認為未來這主責單位不應該是地方教育署或教育局應該是所謂中央單位來去做主責因為這方面來講如果中央願意定這麼嚴格的標準那中央就要負起相應對的責任才是\n\n06:52.532 --> 07:08.611\n跟委員報告張Q的使用規範如果他違規使用我們查到的話就針對他違規的事項會去做處理我認為未來整個檢查食材的SOP必須很清楚\n\n07:09.071 --> 07:35.358\n因為在地方的代理商或經銷商他不會去看到如果有CIS的認證之後然後他還去把它打開來拆開來重新再看說裡面有多少的裡面有多少東西再重新做檢驗這樣時間來講也是來不及的但是如果說我們在前頭SOP就做好主則就做好那相對來講會讓中間在地方的經銷商或代理商能夠比較輕鬆的去處理這些食材\n\n07:36.818 --> 07:53.182\n對我想這個部分食材安全分工上面很清楚在源頭部分農業部會去針對章Q的使用做管理我想這個法因為我們今天討論是學校公差案這個要很明確主責跟SOP必須放在裡面這樣未來我們全國會有一致性的標準\n\n07:59.844 --> 08:13.497\n今天發生在基隆這兩個案子未來有可能在我們不注意的時候發生在全國的小學裡面那這一點來講對於我們民意代表來說我覺得這個是我們必須強烈要求的案子\n\n08:13.769 --> 08:39.560\n我想台灣的張Q其實非常嚴謹就是說他也會有抽查例行的抽查我所知道的抽查也會有罰那這個案件他主動發生了他們也會主動去罰就是說他的這個罰者是都有的而且都有名單張Q可以溯源他就是說可以知道是哪一家犯的就比以前好就是說他的張Q制度不管是CS也好或者是有機也好或者是可溯源的農產品也好這三張其實都是會透過那個QRcode那個Q能夠連結\n\n08:41.881 --> 09:11.013\n所以他們除了主動清查我必須要說市長這個問題是未來我希望說直接列入法裡面不是說未來我們解釋我們發生什麼事情因為已經有冒用過了就表示有更多冒用過以常理來講今天有一個冒用的例子就表示市面上有更多冒用的例子正在流傳而我們只是剛好沒有查到而已所以這件事我覺得我認為說主責SOP查清這三個事情必須放在法規放在這個法裡面既然我們要訂學校公參法\n\n09:11.713 --> 09:36.648\n那我們就把這個放進房屋現在都有了現在這三個制度都有那可能要嚴格執行那SOP也要嚴格執行主責單位不應該是地方不應該是地方證一起來跨部會合作最後一個小小的問題其實我還有一個蠻長的不過還有一個小小的問題請問一下國光獎章或獎金的分發辦法第17條已經多久沒有修了\n\n09:37.679 --> 09:43.901\n你是說獎金的對國光獎金我為什麼這樣問呢我們如果說要對於運動產業要對於運動產業來做推廣那運動產業的職業運動員最後面能夠代表國家能夠在跟國際之間競爭應該是最高的榮耀\n\n09:56.866 --> 10:17.361\n很多人說過中華隊或是國家代表隊的球衣是很重的甚至有人寧願不幫美國打19歲以下的國家代表隊會願意回來幫我們台灣打但是這個前提的話最近我就問一個職業運動員說那他們有什麼需要我幫忙講的他說最小的一個\n\n10:18.820 --> 10:41.537\n目前國光獎金是用點數來去算的不到50點不准發放那如果剛好有一些國手是在不到50點是在一個點數值在30點左右他整個國手生涯就結束的話那想請問他們這個獎金1.1萬塊的國光獎金是否還能拿得到呢我請那個署長來說\n\n10:42.506 --> 10:57.860\n報告委員那個是早期的制度了現在已經不是這樣子了那現在是怎麼樣呢現在就是針對他的運動成就我們直接就是發放這個獎金所以就是如果他是有能夠如果他是實質上我想您的那個那位陳青仁的個案他應該是很多年前好\n\n10:58.420 --> 11:05.943\n在這個案子它整個法的更新之前委員如果有個案可以直接來因為國手來講的話如果我們正要推廣運動產業我那時候在國事論壇也特地幫我們的運動員發聲幫退休的運動員發聲那如果我們要給他們一個標杆幫國家來去出戰各個競賽的運動員應該更受到重視\n\n11:19.750 --> 11:33.485\n一句話嘛錢給的不夠心受委屈了那我們台灣的運動市場並沒有像美國日本來的大但是我們基本的尊重有時候很悲哀的現金也是一種基本的尊重如果連這點都不給的話\n\n11:34.206 --> 11:51.579\n甚至在本來在我記得聽說有保險都出問題的時候其實這樣對於整個運動的風氣就很不好那我希望說我們今天張廖次長是負責運動的那我希望您跟國體署可以在未來在運動產業的發展上面注意這一點好以上謝謝委員的關心我們會努力謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.875,"end":11.342,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請次長請次長備詢"},{"start":17.267,"end":45.95,"text":"林委員好市長本席是基隆市選區的立法委員那其實我記得沒有錯的話在2020年我們奧運的羽球拿到我們奧運的這個就是羽毛球拿到金牌的時候那時候時任總統蔡英文說我們要有一個羽毛球的國手訓練中心在基隆市的基隆高中那現在後來2024年去年我們又得到了世界冠軍"},{"start":47.111,"end":66.688,"text":"那我就很好奇說有兩任總統來去背書的這個羽球國手訓練中心在基隆現在進度怎麼樣那我請詳細進度我請署長回答好不好可以嗎我也好那這關於此案呢我們去年一整年的努力那我們其實已經完成幕僚作業目前已經在行政院了"},{"start":67.148,"end":87.958,"text":"好那如果可以有任何進度的話我會再跟院長來討論因為這個案子對於我們基隆人還蠻重要的不只是因為說基隆是一個相對來講這個羽都之外而且另外一方面這個現在羚羊配都已經變絕配了嘛都已經拆夥了但是我們很尷尬的就是說我們要答應他們兩屆世界冠軍的這個羽球"},{"start":89.819,"end":108.356,"text":"國手蓄電中心到目前還沒有有著落那其實讓所有關心羽毛球甚至關心體育的人其實認為這件事其實是蠻可惜的啦所以我希望說市長在這邊也可能跟內閣在那邊討論一下好 謝謝再來是有關我們今天才講到的這個學校公餐法"},{"start":109.437,"end":123.452,"text":"本席來自基隆所以在基隆在去年在過去兩年之間發生的主要有三件這個有關食安方面的這些議題那食安方面議題呢裡面有兩件本席覺得很值得來給我們這個"},{"start":125.294,"end":138.83,"text":"在這個學校公參法草案裡面來納入我們考量因為第一個是在2023年2月14號的時候因為有番茄它是有裡面驗出來有這個未核准的農藥"},{"start":140.211,"end":165.217,"text":"所以後來被校方給退貨然後並報到教育處裡面去而且後來發現說這味這個農藥上這個番茄上面居然用的是假的QR code那這點其實其實是蠻重要的第二件事情還有另外一個案子也跟這個食物我們未來食材的來源我們要加緊追蹤有關也就是在去年的11月8號"},{"start":166.917,"end":187.75,"text":"居然有小朋友在吃學校午餐的梅干扣肉裡面不小心咬到兩公分的針頭那這件事情後來我們去查明之後才知道說這個食物食材的來源商他在裝包的時候在裝包進CAS的時候他並沒有經過金屬探測器"},{"start":193.291,"end":210.063,"text":"這兩個來源商嚴格講起來都不是基隆的廠商那變成是說教育處要直接去查也費了很大一番功夫我知道這個已經進入好像民法的這個狀態這個是一個食材管理的問題對那我也非常關心我們是不是請榮良署來解釋一下或者他的瞭解程度好 請他先說明"},{"start":212.209,"end":234.208,"text":"針對這個QR Code的這個部分我們針對這個實材真實性這個部分也都有到校園裡面對這個實材去抽檢所以那個部分是我們有去主動去查出來的後續也會針對這個供應端這個部分去做追蹤的處分"},{"start":235.202,"end":253.425,"text":"我為什麼會把這個議題拿出來呢因為這個食材其實不是在基隆市當地而是這個食材他們所合格的廠商其實遍佈全國而且廠商其實沒幾個因為要符合我們營養午餐的標準其實營養午餐標準是相當嚴格的"},{"start":254.406,"end":271.064,"text":"但是尷尬的是說再怎麼嚴格都還是會出現狀況而這又是我們剛剛小羅委員直接講說孩子的未來不能等孩子是國家的未來那我們總不希望說孩子未來吃到的食物導致他們身心受創"},{"start":272.606,"end":301.292,"text":"所以在這個前提之下我會認為說在這一次的這個學校公參法草案在擬定的時候如果有行政院的版本請務必把這個tracking也就是所謂追溯食物來源追溯食材來源這件事情要納進去變成是中央政府的主責而不是讓地方政府來承擔因為地方政府舉例基隆市我們只能查到基隆市的廠商如果是這兩件案子它的"},{"start":303.113,"end":315.304,"text":"這個食材供應商並不是來自基隆市而是來自台北市、新北市那基隆市政府要透過其他機制透過其他平台去查這些東西的時候就變得相對困難而這一點來講甚至這樣講"},{"start":318.587,"end":332.959,"text":"我們剛剛講的很明顯三章EQ但是三章EQ本來應該是在tomato是在番茄上面的結果卻是用在別的地方上面這樣三章EQ的管制是不是也有所謂的疏失呢所以這種種的方面來講"},{"start":334.921,"end":362.944,"text":"為了真的要保證我們食材的品質而且也要防止未來像剛剛這種老實講蠻可笑蠻可恨的事情發生而且我們也要追究責任老實講追究責任可能是最後面但是我們要防止未來這些事情發生甚至如果不合格的廠商他在環境上面還在各方面不行的時候我們必須在這之前在這次我們的學校公參法上面就直接修法把它列入中央的責任這樣子把這"},{"start":363.424,"end":391.574,"text":"把這個中央的法規放進去的時候所有整個業界才會跟著復合我們才會引起足夠的重視市長你認為是對的嗎委員我想你這個關係的角度非常好就是也證明了一個事情就是說其實我們本來就有三張EQ的制度那這個管理的問題執行的問題出了層面事實上我們即使納入法那個管理的部分也要落實那三張EQ就包括這個食品的檢驗的相關的制度我想龍娘署的這個代表"},{"start":391.874,"end":410.241,"text":"非常清楚你剛才提到的問題為什麼會發生他是不是要來簡單說我會認為未來這主責單位不應該是地方教育署或教育局應該是所謂中央單位來去做主責因為這方面來講如果中央願意定這麼嚴格的標準那中央就要負起相應對的責任才是"},{"start":412.532,"end":428.611,"text":"跟委員報告張Q的使用規範如果他違規使用我們查到的話就針對他違規的事項會去做處理我認為未來整個檢查食材的SOP必須很清楚"},{"start":429.071,"end":455.358,"text":"因為在地方的代理商或經銷商他不會去看到如果有CIS的認證之後然後他還去把它打開來拆開來重新再看說裡面有多少的裡面有多少東西再重新做檢驗這樣時間來講也是來不及的但是如果說我們在前頭SOP就做好 主則就做好那相對來講會讓中間在地方的經銷商或代理商能夠比較輕鬆的去處理這些食材"},{"start":456.818,"end":473.182,"text":"對我想這個部分食材安全分工上面很清楚在源頭部分農業部會去針對章Q的使用做管理我想這個法因為我們今天討論是學校公差案這個要很明確主責跟SOP必須放在裡面這樣未來我們全國會有一致性的標準"},{"start":479.844,"end":493.497,"text":"今天發生在基隆這兩個案子未來有可能在我們不注意的時候發生在全國的小學裡面那這一點來講對於我們民意代表來說我覺得這個是我們必須強烈要求的案子"},{"start":493.769,"end":519.56,"text":"我想台灣的張Q其實非常嚴謹就是說他也會有抽查例行的抽查我所知道的抽查也會有罰那這個案件他主動發生了他們也會主動去罰就是說他的這個罰者是都有的而且都有名單張Q可以溯源他就是說可以知道是哪一家犯的就比以前好就是說他的張Q制度不管是CS也好或者是有機也好或者是可溯源的農產品也好這三張其實都是會透過那個QR code那個Q能夠連結"},{"start":521.881,"end":551.013,"text":"所以他們除了主動清查我必須要說市長這個問題是未來我希望說直接列入法裡面不是說未來我們解釋我們發生什麼事情因為已經有冒用過了就表示有更多冒用過以常理來講今天有一個冒用的例子就表示市面上有更多冒用的例子正在流傳而我們只是剛好沒有查到而已所以這件事我覺得我認為說主責SOP查清這三個事情必須放在法規放在這個法裡面既然我們要訂學校公參法"},{"start":551.713,"end":576.648,"text":"那我們就把這個放進房屋現在都有了現在這三個制度都有那可能要嚴格執行那SOP也要嚴格執行主責單位不應該是地方不應該是地方證一起來跨部會合作最後一個小小的問題其實我還有一個蠻長的不過還有一個小小的問題請問一下國光獎章或獎金的分發辦法第17條已經多久沒有修了"},{"start":577.679,"end":583.901,"text":"你是說獎金的對 國光獎金我為什麼這樣問呢我們如果說要對於運動產業要對於運動產業來做推廣那運動產業的職業運動員最後面能夠代表國家能夠在跟國際之間競爭應該是最高的榮耀"},{"start":596.866,"end":617.361,"text":"很多人說過中華隊或是國家代表隊的球衣是很重的甚至有人寧願不幫美國打19歲以下的國家代表隊會願意回來幫我們台灣打但是這個前提的話最近我就問一個職業運動員說那他們有什麼需要我幫忙講的他說最小的一個"},{"start":618.82,"end":641.537,"text":"目前國光獎金是用點數來去算的不到50點不准發放那如果剛好有一些國手是在不到50點是在一個點數值在30點左右他整個國手生涯就結束的話那想請問他們這個獎金1.1萬塊的國光獎金是否還能拿得到呢我請那個署長來說"},{"start":642.506,"end":657.86,"text":"報告委員那個是早期的制度了現在已經不是這樣子了那現在是怎麼樣呢現在就是針對他的運動成就我們直接就是發放這個獎金所以就是如果他是有能夠如果他是實質上我想您的那個那位陳青仁的個案他應該是很多年前好"},{"start":658.42,"end":665.943,"text":"在這個案子它整個法的更新之前委員如果有個案可以直接來因為國手來講的話如果我們正要推廣運動產業我那時候在國事論壇也特地幫我們的運動員發聲幫退休的運動員發聲那如果我們要給他們一個標杆幫國家來去出戰各個競賽的運動員應該更受到重視"},{"start":679.75,"end":693.485,"text":"一句話嘛錢給的不夠心受委屈了那我們台灣的運動市場並沒有像美國日本來的大但是我們基本的尊重有時候很悲哀的現金也是一種基本的尊重如果連這點都不給的話"},{"start":694.206,"end":711.579,"text":"甚至在本來在我記得聽說有保險都出問題的時候其實這樣對於整個運動的風氣就很不好那我希望說我們今天張廖次長是負責運動的那我希望您跟國體署可以在未來在運動產業的發展上面注意這一點好 以上謝謝委員的關心我們會努力謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":408,"blocks":[["林委員沛祥：（10時40分）謝謝主席，有請次長。"],["主席：請次長備詢。"],["張廖次長萬堅：林委員好。"],["林委員沛祥：次長，本席是基隆市選區的立法委員，我記的沒有錯的話，在2020年我們的羽毛球在奧運拿到金牌的時候，那個時候時任總統的蔡英文說我們要有一個羽毛球的國手訓練中心在基隆市的基隆高中。後來在去年（2024年）我們又得到了世界冠軍。那我就很好奇，有兩任總統背書的這個羽球國手訓練中心在基隆，現在進度怎麼樣？"],["張廖次長萬堅：詳細進度我請署長回答好不好？"],["鄭署長世忠：委員好。關於此案，經過去年一整年的努力，我們已經完成幕僚作業，目前已經在行政院了。"],["林委員沛祥：如果可以有任何進度的話，我會再跟院長來討論，因為這個案子對於我們基隆人還蠻重要的，不只是因為基隆相對來講是雨都，而且另外一方面，現在麟洋配都已經變絕配了，都已經拆夥了，但是很尷尬的，我們答應他們兩屆世界冠軍的這個羽球國手訓練中心到目前還沒有著落，其實讓所有關心羽毛球，甚至是關心體育的人認為這件事是蠻可惜的，所以我希望次長也能跟內閣那邊討論一下。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，謝謝。"],["林委員沛祥：再來是有關我們今天講到的學校供餐法，本席來自基隆，基隆在過去兩年之間主要發生3件有關食安方面的議題，裡面有2件本席覺得很值得納入學校供餐法草案裡面來考量，第一個是在2023年2月14號，因為有番茄被驗出來有未核准的農藥，所以後來被校方退貨，並報到教育處去，而且後來發現這個番茄上面居然用的是假的QR Code，這點其實是蠻重要的。還有另外一個案子也跟我們未來必須要加緊追蹤食材的來源有關，也就是在去年的11月8號，居然有小朋友在學校午餐的梅干扣肉裡面不小心咬到2公分的針頭，這件事情後來我們去查明之後才知道，這個是食材的來源商在裝包的時候並沒有經過金屬探測器。這2個來源商嚴格講起來都不是基隆的廠商，變成教育處要直接去查也費了很大一番功夫，我知道這個好像已經進入民法的狀態。"],["張廖次長萬堅：這個是一個食材管理的問題，我也非常關心，我們是不是請農糧署來解釋一下他們了解的部分？"],["林委員沛祥：好，請他先說明。"],["黃副署長昭興：委員好。針對這個QR Code的部分，我們在食材真實性的部分也都有到校園裡面對食材進行抽檢，那個部分是我們主動去查出來的，後續也會針對這個供應端去做追蹤的處分。"],["林委員沛祥：我為什麼會把這個議題拿出來？因為這個食材其實不是在基隆市當地，而是這個食材……"],["張廖次長萬堅：管理的問題。"],["林委員沛祥：他們合格的廠商遍布全國，而且廠商其實沒幾個，因為要符合我們營養午餐的標準，其實營養午餐的標準是相當嚴格的，但是尷尬的是，再怎麼嚴格都還是會出現狀況，而這又是剛剛小羅委員直接講的，孩子的未來不能等、孩子是國家的未來。我們總不希望孩子未來吃到的食物導致他們身心受創，所以在這個前提之下，我會認為在這一次學校供餐法草案擬訂的時候，如果有行政院的版本，請務必把追溯食物來源、追溯食材來源這件事情納進去，變成是由中央政府主責，而不是讓地方政府來承擔。因為如果是地方政府負責，舉例來說，基隆市我們只能查到基隆市的廠商，如果這2件案子的食材供應商並不是來自基隆市，而是來自臺北市、新北市，當基隆市政府要透過其他機制、透過其他平臺去查這些東西的時候，就變得相對困難。甚至這樣講，我們剛剛講的很明顯……"],["張廖次長萬堅：三章一Q。"],["林委員沛祥：三章一Q本來應該是在番茄上面，結果卻是用在別的地方上面，這樣三章一Q的管制是不是也有所謂的疏失呢？所以從種種方面來講，為了要真正保證我們的食材品質，也要防止未來像剛剛這種老實講滿可笑、滿可恨的事情發生，而且我們也要追究責任，老實講，追究責任可能是最後面，但是我們要防止未來這些事情發生，甚至如果不合格的廠商，他在環境上面或是各方面不行的時候，我們必須在這之前，在這次的學校供餐法上面就直接修法把它列入中央的責任，當我們把中央的法規放進去之後，整個業界才會跟著附和，才會引起足夠的重視。次長，你認為是對的嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員，我想你這個關切的角度非常好，也證明了一個事情，其實我們本來就有三章一Q的制度，當管理的層面、執行的層面出了問題，即使我們納入法，管理的部分也要落實。三章一Q就包括食品檢驗的相關制度，我想農糧署的代表非常清楚，你剛才提到的問題為什麼會發生，是不是讓他來簡單說明一下？"],["林委員沛祥：我會認為未來主責單位不應該是地方的教育處或教育局，應該是所謂中央單位來主責……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，那是食品安全……"],["林委員沛祥：因為這方面來講，如果中央要訂這麼嚴格的標準，中央就要負起相對應的責任才是。"],["黃副署長昭興：跟委員報告，我們章Q本來就有章Q的使用規範，如果被我們查到他違規使用的話，會針對他違規的事項去做處分。"],["林委員沛祥：我認為未來整個檢查食材的SOP必須很清楚，因為地方的代理商或經銷商看到有CAS的認證之後，他不會還把它打開來、拆開來，重新再看裡面有多少東西要重新做檢驗，就時間來講是來不及的。但是如果在前頭SOP就做好、主責就做好，相對來講，會讓中間在地方的經銷商或代理商能夠比較輕鬆的去處理這些食材。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，我想食材安全的部分……"],["黃副署長昭興：這個分工上面很清楚，在源頭部分，農業部會去針對章Q的使用做管理……"],["林委員沛祥：我想這個法，因為我們今天討論的是學校供餐法……"],["黃副署長昭興：這個案子是有裁處的。"],["林委員沛祥：這個主責跟SOP必須很明確的放在裡面，這樣未來全國才會有一致性的標準。今天發生在基隆的這兩個案子，未來有可能在我們不注意的時候發生在全國的小學裡面，這一點來講，對於我們民意代表來說，我覺得這個是我們必須強烈要求的案子。"],["張廖次長萬堅：其實臺灣的章Q非常嚴謹，它也會有例行的抽查，我所知道抽查也有罰。而這個案件發生了，他們也會主動去罰，就是說他的罰則是都有的，也都有名單，而且章Q可以溯源，這樣他就可以知道是哪一家犯的，是比以前好。就是說他的章Q制度，不管是CAS也好，或者是有機也好，或者是可溯源的農產品也好，這三章其實都會透過QR Code的Q來連結，所以他們除了主動清查……"],["林委員沛祥：次長，我必須要說，我希望這個問題未來能直接列入法裡面，而不是未來我們解釋如果發生什麼事情……"],["張廖次長萬堅：好。"],["林委員沛祥：因為已經有冒用過，就表示有更多冒用過的，以常理來講，今天有一個冒用的例子，就表示市面上有更多冒用的例子在流竄，只是我們剛好沒有查到而已。所以對於這件事，我認為主責、SOP、查清這三個事情必須放在法規、放在這個法裡面，既然我們要訂學校供餐法，我們就把這個放進法裡面，好不好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：其實現在都有了，現在這三個制度都有了。"],["林委員沛祥：那可能要嚴格執行，SOP也要嚴格執行，主責單位不應該是地方政府。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，我們會請農糧署一起來跨部會合作。"],["林委員沛祥：最後一個小小的問題，國光體育獎章及獎助學金頒發辦法第十七條已經多久沒有修了？我為什麼這樣問呢？我們如果要推廣運動產業，運動產業的職業運動員最後能夠代表國家在國際之間競爭應該是最高的榮耀，很多人跟我說過，中華隊或是國家代表隊的球衣是很重的，甚至有人寧願不幫美國打19歲以下的國家代表隊，而願意回來幫我們臺灣打。但是這個前提的話，最近我就剛好問一個職業運動員說，他們有什麼需要我們幫忙講的？他說最小的一個，目前國光獎金是用點數來算的，不到50點不准發放，如果剛好有些國手不到50點，可能只在30點左右他的國手生涯就結束的話，請問這個1點1萬元的國光獎金是否還拿得到呢？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我請署長來說明。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，那個是早期的制度了，現在已經不是這樣子。"],["林委員沛祥：現在是怎麼樣？"],["鄭署長世忠：現在就是針對他的運動成就直接發放獎金。"],["林委員沛祥：所以如果他是實質上……"],["鄭署長世忠：我想那位陳情人的個案應該是很多年前，在整個法更新之前的案子……"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員如果有個案，可以直接來……"],["鄭署長世忠：是不是我們到委員辦公室來……"],["林委員沛祥：因為以國手來講，如果我們真的要推廣運動產業，我那時候在國是論壇也特地幫我們退休的運動員來發聲……"],["張廖次長萬堅：謝謝委員。"],["林委員沛祥：如果我們要給他們一個標竿，幫國家去出戰，各個競賽的運動員應該更受到重視。"],["張廖次長萬堅：是，謝謝。"],["林委員沛祥：一句話嘛！錢給得不夠，心受委屈了，臺灣的運動市場並沒有像美國、日本那麼大，但是一個基本的尊重，有時候很悲哀的，現金也是一種基本的尊重，如果連這點都不給的話，甚至我聽說連保險都出問題的時候，其實這對於整個運動的風氣就很不好。今天來的張廖次長是負責運動的，我希望您跟國體署未來在運動產業的發展上面可以注意這一點。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，謝謝委員的關心，我們會努力，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林沛祥委員的質詢，官員請回座。"],["主席（林委員沛祥代）：現在有請葛如鈞委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-3","speakers":["葛如鈞","洪孟楷","王育敏","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","陳秀寳","葉元之","柯志恩","萬美玲","林沛祥","林宜瑾","劉書彬","郭昱晴","范雲","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張雅琳","吳沛憶","林倩綺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李彥秀","吳思瑤","李坤城","陳培瑜"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「學校供餐法草案」：(一) 審查委員范雲等16人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(二) 審\n查委員馬文君等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、 (三) 審查委員魯明哲等24人擬具「學校供餐\n法草案」案、(四) 審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(五) 審查委員洪孟楷等\n20 人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、 ( 六 ) 審查委員黃健豪等 20 人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、\n( 七) 審查委員楊瓊瓔等21 人擬具「學校供餐條例草案」案、 ( 八) 審查委員林倩綺等 21 人擬具\n「學校午餐及營養促進條例草案」案、 ( 九 ) 審查委員鍾佳濱等 17 人擬具「學校午餐法草案」\n案、(十) 審查委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育法草案」案、(十一) 審查委員張雅\n琳等17人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育法草案」案、(十二) 審查委員柯志恩等21人擬具「學校午\n餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、(十三) 審查委員陳培瑜等26人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育條例草\n案」案、(十四) 審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「高級中等以下學校及幼兒園午餐供餐法草案」案、\n(十五) 審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草案」案、(十六) 審查委員葉元之等\n20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草案」案、(十七) 審查委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「學校飲食法草\n案」案、(十八) 審查委員林宜瑾等33人擬具「學校飲食法草案」案、(十九) 審查委員劉建國等\n17人擬具「學校飲食教育法草案」案、(二十) 審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「學校營養飲食供餐\n法草案」案、(二十一) 審查委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「高級中等以下學校供餐及飲食教育條例草\n案」案、(二十二) 審查委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」\n案、(二十三) 審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案（僅進行詢答）；二、審\n查「運動產業發展條例」：(一) 審查委員柯志恩等22人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及\n第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(二) 審查委員張智倫等 18 人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(三) 審查委員洪孟楷等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第\n二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(四) 審查委員王鴻薇等 19 人擬具「運動產業發展\n條例第二十四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(五) 審查委員林倩綺等22人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例第四條條文修正草案」案、(六) 審查委員沈發惠等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二\n條條文修正草案」案、(七) 審查委員許宇甄等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十四條及第二\n十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二條、第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」、(九)審查委員楊瓊瓔等27人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十\n四條及第二十六條條文修正草案」（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1142901_00003"}}}