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00:00:45,084\n好部長那本席呢一貫主張就是台電要以綜合電業的模式繼續經營那當然我們有一些修法背景對於對這個綜合電有疑慮的這些人士我覺得還是要回歸一下一些歷史的爬梳在106年的時候電業法的修法為了順應當時國際電業自由化所以是以開放綠電自由化再來開放火電自由化的框架所以第一階段我們開放了綠電自由化\n\n3\n00:00:46,645 --> 00:00:54,474\n2025綠能發電占比提升至20%之目標在目前來講今年確實在高峰端確實也能夠達成20%的綠能發電占比是要給我們經濟部所有的同仁給予掌聲\n\n4\n00:01:00,581 --> 00:01:18,537\n真的是不容易的工作那第二階段我們再來開放否電自由化所以呢也就開始了106年的修法網廠分離分割台電為電力市場全面開放做準備但是有幾個重點這也是本席要支持綜合電業的原因\n\n5\n00:01:18,677 --> 00:01:32,890\n第一個地緣政治跟國際趨勢的轉變在三年前惡霧戰爭地緣政治的動盪以及2050近年轉型的目標這也是在您的報告當中有提國際對電業經營的失約整個氾濫大轉由推動電力市場的自由競爭轉為強化管制與整合我們來看這三個國家第一個核能大國法國\n\n6\n00:01:42,839 --> 00:02:08,858\n他的发电由政府持股已经达84%了俄乌战争之后为了稳定他们发电的财务前年2023年他们全部的国有化百分百那英国呢是最早倡议电业自由化所以他们根本就没有这个国营事业了好就所以国力电力全部的民营化俄乌战争之后竟然是人民跟政党的请愿\n\n7\n00:02:09,338 --> 00:02:35,479\n人員公司國有化而在去年的時候他成立的國營他們這國營當中是做綜合電業跟規劃設計而且在另外成立的一家公司叫做國有再生人員公司他連再生人員他都要統合的來做一個整合的平台就這家公司新加坡他是一個長久以來就是以他們的新加坡電力公司購買天然氣\n\n8\n00:02:37,000 --> 00:03:01,977\n那過往他們購買天然氣就是這家公司自己去買新加坡電力公司去買現在在去年他修法中央政府來買中央政府還成立了中央燃氣機構統一為這個發電公司來購買天然氣好另外第二點本席會支持綜合電業的原因因為也只有綜合電才能統整各種不同電力的效應不管風、光、水力、天然氣\n\n9\n00:03:02,637 --> 00:03:26,058\n好我們看再生能源的發電量其實已經打國家總用電的11.7%了這個是可以預估這樣的再生能源廠及裝置持續的投入未來這種再生能源方電比值會持續升高但是綠電的間歇特性供電的穩定當然需要做統整的運用所以唯有透過發電端電網端受電端整合在一塊\n\n10\n00:03:29,301 --> 00:03:44,291\n才能有效的維持電力供應如果我的發電電網跟售電是分開的情況之下本息很難想像在供電當這三家公司是以盈利為主的時候根本不會配合我經濟部不會配合國家政策去做統整的運用\n\n11\n00:03:45,091 --> 00:04:07,714\n第三個本席會支持綜合電業的原因是只有綜合電業才能支持國家的人員政策穩定產業發展我國產業的特性為出口導向型的製造業勢必面臨低碳跟成本競爭力的要求如何確保民生穩定產業發展跟經濟成長這是國家的首重課題也唯有以綜合電業來\n\n12\n00:04:09,375 --> 00:04:29,157\n存續呢才能的這個國營事業才會優先支持政策當我分割這三家的時候這個一定政府說我們有哪些產業政策啊你必須投入喔譬如說我們說電力韌性啊那你這家公司的輸配電你要不要投入他絕對不投入\n\n13\n00:04:29,577 --> 00:04:37,544\n因為太貴了我的偏鄉光是只要偏鄉地方他們哪要用這些成本下去做投資我們整個電力電網是花了千億啊這家公司怎麼可能單獨花千億所以為了支持我們的產業政策民生穩定經濟成長本席是支持綜合電業的那\n\n14\n00:04:48,274 --> 00:05:00,291\n另外呢主責機關這個部分我要特別給人員署一個掌聲但是我也給他一個克責就是要給他刻意在一些責任那這件事情需要經濟部這邊給他一個靠山\n\n15\n00:05:03,936 --> 00:05:20,607\n怎麼說呢我們是屬於高度能源進口的需求的國家過去能源署他只要管哪家公司就夠了管台電中油可以掌握國家所有的人員供給電業自由化所衍生的再生能源業者能源署應該強化目的事業管理機制所以呢\n\n16\n00:05:21,227 --> 00:05:43,213\n但是我要提到地方政府對能源的專業是相對欠缺的新科技對於環境跟原生產業乃至於區域發展民間的宣達都需要能源署在中央統籌執行好再精準的講我的再生能源大部分的再生能源廠都是國家權利授予的不管是我離岸風電光電廠包括地熱\n\n17\n00:05:45,613 --> 00:05:58,540\n這都是國家大概20年或25年到了之後我們政府要續約但是我們現在有沒有數據完全沒數據喔我們現在這個國家授予的這些地區來講包括豐利\n\n18\n00:06:02,102 --> 00:06:07,526\n太陽包括地震所產生的衝擊這些看起來是誰該做應該是環境部喔可是環境部要管不管電力效應不管當我這個場域當中這些的天然資源所帶來的數據當我對於我電力效應的這樣的一個綜合的一個評估或者是觀察有沒有好我為什麼說到地方政府也有關係我的這個養殖場\n\n19\n00:06:30,183 --> 00:06:35,548\n全部都是地方政府啊我養殖場的數據相關周邊的數據我為什麼要提供給你給你能源署呢所以我講到這個工作當你已經要預見到我20、25年的時候我需要再做這個重新的再做續約的時候或者\n\n20\n00:06:48,700 --> 00:07:12,337\n我現在的人員政策我有沒有需要透過數據能夠五年十一元的十年來我需要做一些調整都這需要數據的支持那我說需要經濟部多給能源組這個支持跨部會啊跨農業部跨環境部跨地方政府這個東西你叫一個能源組他該做\n\n21\n00:07:12,957 --> 00:07:37,227\n我認為他因為電力這些東西都是要影響我電力的效益但是他要有哪一個單位或機構特別來做這個是部長這邊你可能要這個等一下簡單回應一下好最後具體主張台電呢是以綜合電業的方式來繼續經營這是本協專強烈要求人員署評估建立再生人員場域各級數據監理機制並規劃台電場域先行事辦\n\n22\n00:07:41,108 --> 00:07:45,452\n到底我哪些台電所的離岸風電或光電廠我們就先行示範這些數據的整合因為我剛剛講還有設計跨部會跟中央地方才能夠有力要求我們未來民營電廠應該比照辦理部長您怎麼看謝謝委員指教我們會在一個月裡面提供這些資料給委員參考好謝謝部長我們請加油謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4386\t5952\t好有請部長好請部長\n15675\t45084\t好 部長那本席呢一貫主張就是台電要以綜合電業的模式繼續經營那當然我們有一些修法背景對於對這個綜合電有疑慮的這些人士我覺得還是要回歸一下一些歷史的爬梳在106年的時候電業法的修法為了順應當時國際電業自由化所以是以開放綠電自由化再來開放火電自由化的框架所以第一階段我們開放了綠電自由化\n46645\t54474\t2025綠能發電占比提升至20%之目標在目前來講今年確實在高峰端確實也能夠達成20%的綠能發電占比是要給我們經濟部所有的同仁給予掌聲\n60581\t78537\t真的是不容易的工作那第二階段我們再來開放否電自由化所以呢也就開始了106年的修法網廠分離分割台電為電力市場全面開放做準備但是有幾個重點這也是本席要支持綜合電業的原因\n78677\t92890\t第一個地緣政治跟國際趨勢的轉變在三年前惡霧戰爭地緣政治的動盪以及2050近年轉型的目標這也是在您的報告當中有提國際對電業經營的失約整個氾濫大轉由推動電力市場的自由競爭轉為強化管制與整合我們來看這三個國家第一個核能大國法國\n102839\t128858\t他的发电由政府持股已经达84%了俄乌战争之后为了稳定他们发电的财务前年2023年他们全部的国有化百分百那英国呢是最早倡议电业自由化所以他们根本就没有这个国营事业了好就所以国力电力全部的民营化俄乌战争之后竟然是人民跟政党的请愿\n129338\t155479\t人員公司國有化而在去年的時候他成立的國營他們這國營當中是做綜合電業跟規劃設計而且在另外成立的一家公司叫做國有再生人員公司他連再生人員他都要統合的來做一個整合的平台就這家公司新加坡他是一個長久以來就是以他們的新加坡電力公司購買天然氣\n157000\t181977\t那過往他們購買天然氣就是這家公司自己去買新加坡電力公司去買現在在去年他修法中央政府來買中央政府還成立了中央燃氣機構統一為這個發電公司來購買天然氣好另外第二點本席會支持綜合電業的原因因為也只有綜合電才能統整各種不同電力的效應不管風、光、水力、天然氣\n182637\t206058\t好 我們看再生能源的發電量其實已經打國家總用電的11.7%了這個是可以預估這樣的再生能源廠及裝置持續的投入未來這種再生能源方電比值會持續升高但是綠電的間歇特性供電的穩定當然需要做統整的運用所以唯有透過發電端 電網端 受電端整合在一塊\n209301\t224291\t才能有效的維持電力供應如果我的發電電網跟售電是分開的情況之下本息很難想像在供電當這三家公司是以盈利為主的時候根本不會配合我經濟部不會配合國家政策去做統整的運用\n225091\t247714\t第三個本席會支持綜合電業的原因是只有綜合電業才能支持國家的人員政策穩定產業發展我國產業的特性為出口導向型的製造業勢必面臨低碳跟成本競爭力的要求如何確保民生穩定產業發展跟經濟成長這是國家的首重課題也唯有以綜合電業來\n249375\t269157\t存續呢才能的這個國營事業才會優先支持政策當我分割這三家的時候這個一定政府說我們有哪些產業政策啊你必須投入喔譬如說我們說電力韌性啊那你這家公司的輸配電你要不要投入他絕對不投入\n269577\t277544\t因為太貴了我的偏鄉光是只要偏鄉地方他們哪要用這些成本下去做投資我們整個電力電網是花了千億啊這家公司怎麼可能單獨花千億所以為了支持我們的產業政策民生穩定經濟成長本席是支持綜合電業的那\n288274\t300291\t另外呢 主責機關這個部分我要特別給人員署一個掌聲但是我也給他一個克責就是要給他刻意在一些責任那這件事情需要經濟部這邊給他一個靠山\n303936\t320607\t怎麼說呢我們是屬於高度能源進口的需求的國家過去能源署他只要管哪家公司就夠了管台電中油可以掌握國家所有的人員供給電業自由化所衍生的再生能源業者能源署應該強化目的事業管理機制所以呢\n321227\t343213\t但是我要提到地方政府對能源的專業是相對欠缺的新科技對於環境跟原生產業乃至於區域發展民間的宣達都需要能源署在中央統籌執行好再精準的講我的再生能源大部分的再生能源廠都是國家權利授予的不管是我離岸風電光電廠包括地熱\n345613\t358540\t這都是國家大概20年或25年到了之後我們政府要續約但是我們現在有沒有數據完全沒數據喔我們現在這個國家授予的這些地區來講包括豐利\n362102\t367526\t太陽包括地震所產生的衝擊這些看起來是誰該做應該是環境部喔可是環境部要管不管電力效應不管當我這個場域當中這些的天然資源所帶來的數據當我對於我電力效應的這樣的一個綜合的一個評估或者是觀察有沒有好我為什麼說到地方政府也有關係我的這個養殖場\n390183\t395548\t全部都是地方政府啊我養殖場的數據相關周邊的數據我為什麼要提供給你給你能源署呢所以我講到這個工作當你已經要預見到我20、25年的時候我需要再做這個重新的再做續約的時候或者\n408700\t432337\t我現在的人員政策我有沒有需要透過數據能夠五年十一元的十年來我需要做一些調整都這需要數據的支持那我說需要經濟部多給能源組這個支持跨部會啊 跨農業部 跨環境部 跨地方政府這個東西你叫一個能源組他該做\n432957\t457227\t我認為他因為電力這些東西都是要影響我電力的效益但是他要有哪一個單位或機構特別來做這個是部長這邊你可能要這個等一下簡單回應一下好最後具體主張台電呢是以綜合電業的方式來繼續經營這是本協專強烈要求人員署評估建立再生人員場域各級數據監理機制並規劃台電場域先行事辦\n461108\t465452\t到底我哪些台電所的離岸風電或光電廠我們就先行示範這些數據的整合因為我剛剛講還有設計跨部會跟中央地方才能夠有力要求我們未來民營電廠應該比照辦理部長您怎麼看謝謝委員指教我們會在一個月裡面提供這些資料給委員參考好 謝謝部長我們請加油謝謝\n","txt":"好有請部長好請部長\n好 部長那本席呢一貫主張就是台電要以綜合電業的模式繼續經營那當然我們有一些修法背景對於對這個綜合電有疑慮的這些人士我覺得還是要回歸一下一些歷史的爬梳在106年的時候電業法的修法為了順應當時國際電業自由化所以是以開放綠電自由化再來開放火電自由化的框架所以第一階段我們開放了綠電自由化\n2025綠能發電占比提升至20%之目標在目前來講今年確實在高峰端確實也能夠達成20%的綠能發電占比是要給我們經濟部所有的同仁給予掌聲\n真的是不容易的工作那第二階段我們再來開放否電自由化所以呢也就開始了106年的修法網廠分離分割台電為電力市場全面開放做準備但是有幾個重點這也是本席要支持綜合電業的原因\n第一個地緣政治跟國際趨勢的轉變在三年前惡霧戰爭地緣政治的動盪以及2050近年轉型的目標這也是在您的報告當中有提國際對電業經營的失約整個氾濫大轉由推動電力市場的自由競爭轉為強化管制與整合我們來看這三個國家第一個核能大國法國\n他的发电由政府持股已经达84%了俄乌战争之后为了稳定他们发电的财务前年2023年他们全部的国有化百分百那英国呢是最早倡议电业自由化所以他们根本就没有这个国营事业了好就所以国力电力全部的民营化俄乌战争之后竟然是人民跟政党的请愿\n人員公司國有化而在去年的時候他成立的國營他們這國營當中是做綜合電業跟規劃設計而且在另外成立的一家公司叫做國有再生人員公司他連再生人員他都要統合的來做一個整合的平台就這家公司新加坡他是一個長久以來就是以他們的新加坡電力公司購買天然氣\n那過往他們購買天然氣就是這家公司自己去買新加坡電力公司去買現在在去年他修法中央政府來買中央政府還成立了中央燃氣機構統一為這個發電公司來購買天然氣好另外第二點本席會支持綜合電業的原因因為也只有綜合電才能統整各種不同電力的效應不管風、光、水力、天然氣\n好 我們看再生能源的發電量其實已經打國家總用電的11.7%了這個是可以預估這樣的再生能源廠及裝置持續的投入未來這種再生能源方電比值會持續升高但是綠電的間歇特性供電的穩定當然需要做統整的運用所以唯有透過發電端 電網端 受電端整合在一塊\n才能有效的維持電力供應如果我的發電電網跟售電是分開的情況之下本息很難想像在供電當這三家公司是以盈利為主的時候根本不會配合我經濟部不會配合國家政策去做統整的運用\n第三個本席會支持綜合電業的原因是只有綜合電業才能支持國家的人員政策穩定產業發展我國產業的特性為出口導向型的製造業勢必面臨低碳跟成本競爭力的要求如何確保民生穩定產業發展跟經濟成長這是國家的首重課題也唯有以綜合電業來\n存續呢才能的這個國營事業才會優先支持政策當我分割這三家的時候這個一定政府說我們有哪些產業政策啊你必須投入喔譬如說我們說電力韌性啊那你這家公司的輸配電你要不要投入他絕對不投入\n因為太貴了我的偏鄉光是只要偏鄉地方他們哪要用這些成本下去做投資我們整個電力電網是花了千億啊這家公司怎麼可能單獨花千億所以為了支持我們的產業政策民生穩定經濟成長本席是支持綜合電業的那\n另外呢 主責機關這個部分我要特別給人員署一個掌聲但是我也給他一個克責就是要給他刻意在一些責任那這件事情需要經濟部這邊給他一個靠山\n怎麼說呢我們是屬於高度能源進口的需求的國家過去能源署他只要管哪家公司就夠了管台電中油可以掌握國家所有的人員供給電業自由化所衍生的再生能源業者能源署應該強化目的事業管理機制所以呢\n但是我要提到地方政府對能源的專業是相對欠缺的新科技對於環境跟原生產業乃至於區域發展民間的宣達都需要能源署在中央統籌執行好再精準的講我的再生能源大部分的再生能源廠都是國家權利授予的不管是我離岸風電光電廠包括地熱\n這都是國家大概20年或25年到了之後我們政府要續約但是我們現在有沒有數據完全沒數據喔我們現在這個國家授予的這些地區來講包括豐利\n太陽包括地震所產生的衝擊這些看起來是誰該做應該是環境部喔可是環境部要管不管電力效應不管當我這個場域當中這些的天然資源所帶來的數據當我對於我電力效應的這樣的一個綜合的一個評估或者是觀察有沒有好我為什麼說到地方政府也有關係我的這個養殖場\n全部都是地方政府啊我養殖場的數據相關周邊的數據我為什麼要提供給你給你能源署呢所以我講到這個工作當你已經要預見到我20、25年的時候我需要再做這個重新的再做續約的時候或者\n我現在的人員政策我有沒有需要透過數據能夠五年十一元的十年來我需要做一些調整都這需要數據的支持那我說需要經濟部多給能源組這個支持跨部會啊 跨農業部 跨環境部 跨地方政府這個東西你叫一個能源組他該做\n我認為他因為電力這些東西都是要影響我電力的效益但是他要有哪一個單位或機構特別來做這個是部長這邊你可能要這個等一下簡單回應一下好最後具體主張台電呢是以綜合電業的方式來繼續經營這是本協專強烈要求人員署評估建立再生人員場域各級數據監理機制並規劃台電場域先行事辦\n到底我哪些台電所的離岸風電或光電廠我們就先行示範這些數據的整合因為我剛剛講還有設計跨部會跟中央地方才能夠有力要求我們未來民營電廠應該比照辦理部長您怎麼看謝謝委員指教我們會在一個月裡面提供這些資料給委員參考好 謝謝部長我們請加油謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.386 --> 00:05.952\n好有請部長好請部長\n\n00:15.675 --> 00:45.084\n好部長那本席呢一貫主張就是台電要以綜合電業的模式繼續經營那當然我們有一些修法背景對於對這個綜合電有疑慮的這些人士我覺得還是要回歸一下一些歷史的爬梳在106年的時候電業法的修法為了順應當時國際電業自由化所以是以開放綠電自由化再來開放火電自由化的框架所以第一階段我們開放了綠電自由化\n\n00:46.645 --> 00:54.474\n2025綠能發電占比提升至20%之目標在目前來講今年確實在高峰端確實也能夠達成20%的綠能發電占比是要給我們經濟部所有的同仁給予掌聲\n\n01:00.581 --> 01:18.537\n真的是不容易的工作那第二階段我們再來開放否電自由化所以呢也就開始了106年的修法網廠分離分割台電為電力市場全面開放做準備但是有幾個重點這也是本席要支持綜合電業的原因\n\n01:18.677 --> 01:32.890\n第一個地緣政治跟國際趨勢的轉變在三年前惡霧戰爭地緣政治的動盪以及2050近年轉型的目標這也是在您的報告當中有提國際對電業經營的失約整個氾濫大轉由推動電力市場的自由競爭轉為強化管制與整合我們來看這三個國家第一個核能大國法國\n\n01:42.839 --> 02:08.858\n他的发电由政府持股已经达84%了俄乌战争之后为了稳定他们发电的财务前年2023年他们全部的国有化百分百那英国呢是最早倡议电业自由化所以他们根本就没有这个国营事业了好就所以国力电力全部的民营化俄乌战争之后竟然是人民跟政党的请愿\n\n02:09.338 --> 02:35.479\n人員公司國有化而在去年的時候他成立的國營他們這國營當中是做綜合電業跟規劃設計而且在另外成立的一家公司叫做國有再生人員公司他連再生人員他都要統合的來做一個整合的平台就這家公司新加坡他是一個長久以來就是以他們的新加坡電力公司購買天然氣\n\n02:37.000 --> 03:01.977\n那過往他們購買天然氣就是這家公司自己去買新加坡電力公司去買現在在去年他修法中央政府來買中央政府還成立了中央燃氣機構統一為這個發電公司來購買天然氣好另外第二點本席會支持綜合電業的原因因為也只有綜合電才能統整各種不同電力的效應不管風、光、水力、天然氣\n\n03:02.637 --> 03:26.058\n好我們看再生能源的發電量其實已經打國家總用電的11.7%了這個是可以預估這樣的再生能源廠及裝置持續的投入未來這種再生能源方電比值會持續升高但是綠電的間歇特性供電的穩定當然需要做統整的運用所以唯有透過發電端電網端受電端整合在一塊\n\n03:29.301 --> 03:44.291\n才能有效的維持電力供應如果我的發電電網跟售電是分開的情況之下本息很難想像在供電當這三家公司是以盈利為主的時候根本不會配合我經濟部不會配合國家政策去做統整的運用\n\n03:45.091 --> 04:07.714\n第三個本席會支持綜合電業的原因是只有綜合電業才能支持國家的人員政策穩定產業發展我國產業的特性為出口導向型的製造業勢必面臨低碳跟成本競爭力的要求如何確保民生穩定產業發展跟經濟成長這是國家的首重課題也唯有以綜合電業來\n\n04:09.375 --> 04:29.157\n存續呢才能的這個國營事業才會優先支持政策當我分割這三家的時候這個一定政府說我們有哪些產業政策啊你必須投入喔譬如說我們說電力韌性啊那你這家公司的輸配電你要不要投入他絕對不投入\n\n04:29.577 --> 04:37.544\n因為太貴了我的偏鄉光是只要偏鄉地方他們哪要用這些成本下去做投資我們整個電力電網是花了千億啊這家公司怎麼可能單獨花千億所以為了支持我們的產業政策民生穩定經濟成長本席是支持綜合電業的那\n\n04:48.274 --> 05:00.291\n另外呢主責機關這個部分我要特別給人員署一個掌聲但是我也給他一個克責就是要給他刻意在一些責任那這件事情需要經濟部這邊給他一個靠山\n\n05:03.936 --> 05:20.607\n怎麼說呢我們是屬於高度能源進口的需求的國家過去能源署他只要管哪家公司就夠了管台電中油可以掌握國家所有的人員供給電業自由化所衍生的再生能源業者能源署應該強化目的事業管理機制所以呢\n\n05:21.227 --> 05:43.213\n但是我要提到地方政府對能源的專業是相對欠缺的新科技對於環境跟原生產業乃至於區域發展民間的宣達都需要能源署在中央統籌執行好再精準的講我的再生能源大部分的再生能源廠都是國家權利授予的不管是我離岸風電光電廠包括地熱\n\n05:45.613 --> 05:58.540\n這都是國家大概20年或25年到了之後我們政府要續約但是我們現在有沒有數據完全沒數據喔我們現在這個國家授予的這些地區來講包括豐利\n\n06:02.102 --> 06:07.526\n太陽包括地震所產生的衝擊這些看起來是誰該做應該是環境部喔可是環境部要管不管電力效應不管當我這個場域當中這些的天然資源所帶來的數據當我對於我電力效應的這樣的一個綜合的一個評估或者是觀察有沒有好我為什麼說到地方政府也有關係我的這個養殖場\n\n06:30.183 --> 06:35.548\n全部都是地方政府啊我養殖場的數據相關周邊的數據我為什麼要提供給你給你能源署呢所以我講到這個工作當你已經要預見到我20、25年的時候我需要再做這個重新的再做續約的時候或者\n\n06:48.700 --> 07:12.337\n我現在的人員政策我有沒有需要透過數據能夠五年十一元的十年來我需要做一些調整都這需要數據的支持那我說需要經濟部多給能源組這個支持跨部會啊跨農業部跨環境部跨地方政府這個東西你叫一個能源組他該做\n\n07:12.957 --> 07:37.227\n我認為他因為電力這些東西都是要影響我電力的效益但是他要有哪一個單位或機構特別來做這個是部長這邊你可能要這個等一下簡單回應一下好最後具體主張台電呢是以綜合電業的方式來繼續經營這是本協專強烈要求人員署評估建立再生人員場域各級數據監理機制並規劃台電場域先行事辦\n\n07:41.108 --> 07:45.452\n到底我哪些台電所的離岸風電或光電廠我們就先行示範這些數據的整合因為我剛剛講還有設計跨部會跟中央地方才能夠有力要求我們未來民營電廠應該比照辦理部長您怎麼看謝謝委員指教我們會在一個月裡面提供這些資料給委員參考好謝謝部長我們請加油謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.386,"end":5.952,"text":"好有請部長好請部長"},{"start":15.675,"end":45.084,"text":"好 部長那本席呢一貫主張就是台電要以綜合電業的模式繼續經營那當然我們有一些修法背景對於對這個綜合電有疑慮的這些人士我覺得還是要回歸一下一些歷史的爬梳在106年的時候電業法的修法為了順應當時國際電業自由化所以是以開放綠電自由化再來開放火電自由化的框架所以第一階段我們開放了綠電自由化"},{"start":46.645,"end":54.474,"text":"2025綠能發電占比提升至20%之目標在目前來講今年確實在高峰端確實也能夠達成20%的綠能發電占比是要給我們經濟部所有的同仁給予掌聲"},{"start":60.581,"end":78.537,"text":"真的是不容易的工作那第二階段我們再來開放否電自由化所以呢也就開始了106年的修法網廠分離分割台電為電力市場全面開放做準備但是有幾個重點這也是本席要支持綜合電業的原因"},{"start":78.677,"end":92.89,"text":"第一個地緣政治跟國際趨勢的轉變在三年前惡霧戰爭地緣政治的動盪以及2050近年轉型的目標這也是在您的報告當中有提國際對電業經營的失約整個氾濫大轉由推動電力市場的自由競爭轉為強化管制與整合我們來看這三個國家第一個核能大國法國"},{"start":102.839,"end":128.858,"text":"他的发电由政府持股已经达84%了俄乌战争之后为了稳定他们发电的财务前年2023年他们全部的国有化百分百那英国呢是最早倡议电业自由化所以他们根本就没有这个国营事业了好就所以国力电力全部的民营化俄乌战争之后竟然是人民跟政党的请愿"},{"start":129.338,"end":155.479,"text":"人員公司國有化而在去年的時候他成立的國營他們這國營當中是做綜合電業跟規劃設計而且在另外成立的一家公司叫做國有再生人員公司他連再生人員他都要統合的來做一個整合的平台就這家公司新加坡他是一個長久以來就是以他們的新加坡電力公司購買天然氣"},{"start":157,"end":181.977,"text":"那過往他們購買天然氣就是這家公司自己去買新加坡電力公司去買現在在去年他修法中央政府來買中央政府還成立了中央燃氣機構統一為這個發電公司來購買天然氣好另外第二點本席會支持綜合電業的原因因為也只有綜合電才能統整各種不同電力的效應不管風、光、水力、天然氣"},{"start":182.637,"end":206.058,"text":"好 我們看再生能源的發電量其實已經打國家總用電的11.7%了這個是可以預估這樣的再生能源廠及裝置持續的投入未來這種再生能源方電比值會持續升高但是綠電的間歇特性供電的穩定當然需要做統整的運用所以唯有透過發電端 電網端 受電端整合在一塊"},{"start":209.301,"end":224.291,"text":"才能有效的維持電力供應如果我的發電電網跟售電是分開的情況之下本息很難想像在供電當這三家公司是以盈利為主的時候根本不會配合我經濟部不會配合國家政策去做統整的運用"},{"start":225.091,"end":247.714,"text":"第三個本席會支持綜合電業的原因是只有綜合電業才能支持國家的人員政策穩定產業發展我國產業的特性為出口導向型的製造業勢必面臨低碳跟成本競爭力的要求如何確保民生穩定產業發展跟經濟成長這是國家的首重課題也唯有以綜合電業來"},{"start":249.375,"end":269.157,"text":"存續呢才能的這個國營事業才會優先支持政策當我分割這三家的時候這個一定政府說我們有哪些產業政策啊你必須投入喔譬如說我們說電力韌性啊那你這家公司的輸配電你要不要投入他絕對不投入"},{"start":269.577,"end":277.544,"text":"因為太貴了我的偏鄉光是只要偏鄉地方他們哪要用這些成本下去做投資我們整個電力電網是花了千億啊這家公司怎麼可能單獨花千億所以為了支持我們的產業政策民生穩定經濟成長本席是支持綜合電業的那"},{"start":288.274,"end":300.291,"text":"另外呢 主責機關這個部分我要特別給人員署一個掌聲但是我也給他一個克責就是要給他刻意在一些責任那這件事情需要經濟部這邊給他一個靠山"},{"start":303.936,"end":320.607,"text":"怎麼說呢我們是屬於高度能源進口的需求的國家過去能源署他只要管哪家公司就夠了管台電中油可以掌握國家所有的人員供給電業自由化所衍生的再生能源業者能源署應該強化目的事業管理機制所以呢"},{"start":321.227,"end":343.213,"text":"但是我要提到地方政府對能源的專業是相對欠缺的新科技對於環境跟原生產業乃至於區域發展民間的宣達都需要能源署在中央統籌執行好再精準的講我的再生能源大部分的再生能源廠都是國家權利授予的不管是我離岸風電光電廠包括地熱"},{"start":345.613,"end":358.54,"text":"這都是國家大概20年或25年到了之後我們政府要續約但是我們現在有沒有數據完全沒數據喔我們現在這個國家授予的這些地區來講包括豐利"},{"start":362.102,"end":367.526,"text":"太陽包括地震所產生的衝擊這些看起來是誰該做應該是環境部喔可是環境部要管不管電力效應不管當我這個場域當中這些的天然資源所帶來的數據當我對於我電力效應的這樣的一個綜合的一個評估或者是觀察有沒有好我為什麼說到地方政府也有關係我的這個養殖場"},{"start":390.183,"end":395.548,"text":"全部都是地方政府啊我養殖場的數據相關周邊的數據我為什麼要提供給你給你能源署呢所以我講到這個工作當你已經要預見到我20、25年的時候我需要再做這個重新的再做續約的時候或者"},{"start":408.7,"end":432.337,"text":"我現在的人員政策我有沒有需要透過數據能夠五年十一元的十年來我需要做一些調整都這需要數據的支持那我說需要經濟部多給能源組這個支持跨部會啊 跨農業部 跨環境部 跨地方政府這個東西你叫一個能源組他該做"},{"start":432.957,"end":457.227,"text":"我認為他因為電力這些東西都是要影響我電力的效益但是他要有哪一個單位或機構特別來做這個是部長這邊你可能要這個等一下簡單回應一下好最後具體主張台電呢是以綜合電業的方式來繼續經營這是本協專強烈要求人員署評估建立再生人員場域各級數據監理機制並規劃台電場域先行事辦"},{"start":461.108,"end":465.452,"text":"到底我哪些台電所的離岸風電或光電廠我們就先行示範這些數據的整合因為我剛剛講還有設計跨部會跟中央地方才能夠有力要求我們未來民營電廠應該比照辦理部長您怎麼看謝謝委員指教我們會在一個月裡面提供這些資料給委員參考好 謝謝部長我們請加油謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":101,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（9時14分）有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["林委員岱樺：部長，本席一貫主張台電要以綜合電業的模式繼續經營，當然我們有一些修法背景，對綜合電業有疑慮的這些人士，我覺得還是要回歸一些歷史的爬梳。在106年的時候電業法修法，為了順應當時國際電業自由化，以「先開放綠電自由化，再開放火電自由化」為框架，所以第一階段我們開放了綠電自由化，來達成2025綠能發電占比提升至20%之目標。在目前來講，今年確實在高峰端，確實也能夠達成20%的綠能發電占比，這要給我們經濟部所有的同仁掌聲，真的是不容易的工作。第二階段再來開放火電自由化，也就開始了106年的修法，「廠網分離─分割台電」，為電力市場全面開放做準備。","但是有幾個重點，這也是本席要支持綜合電業的原因。第一、地緣政治與國際趨勢的轉變。在三年前的俄烏戰爭，地緣政治動盪，以及2050淨零轉型的目標，這也是在您的報告當中有提到，國際對電業經營的思維整個翻轉，由推動電力市場的自由競爭轉為強化管制與整合。我們來看這3個國家，第一個，核能大國法國，他們的法電已由政府持股達84%，俄烏戰爭之後，為了穩定法電的財務，前年（2023年）他們全部百分百國有化；英國是最早倡議電業自由化，所以他們根本就沒有這個國營事業了，國內電業全部都民營化。俄烏戰爭之後，竟然是人民跟政黨請願能源公司國有化，而在去年的時候，他們成立國營NESO，做綜合電業跟規劃設計，而且再另外成立了一家公司叫做「國有再生能源公司」，連再生能源都要統合來做一個整合的平台；新加坡長久以來就是以新加坡電力公司購買天然氣，過往他們購買天然氣就是這家新加坡電力公司自己去買，在去年他們修法，改為由中央政府來買，中央政府還成立了中央燃氣機構，統一為這個發電公司購買天然氣。","另外，本席會支持綜合電業的第二個原因，因為也只有綜合電業才能統整各種不同電力的效益，不管是風、光、水力、天然氣。我們再生能源的發電量其實已經達國家總用電的11.7%了，可以預估再生能源廠及裝置持續的投入，未來再生能源發電比只會持續升高，但是綠電的間歇特性，供電的穩定當然需要統整運用，所以唯有透過發電端、電網端、售電端整合，才能有效的維持電力供需平衡。如果我們的發電電網跟售電是分開的情況之下，本席很難想像在供電的部分，當這3家公司是以營利為主的時候，根本不會配合經濟部，不會配合國家政策去做統整的運用。","第三個本席會支持綜合電業的原因是，只有綜合電業才能支持國家的能源政策，穩定產業發展。我國產業的特性為出口導向型的製造業，勢必面臨低碳跟成本競爭力的要求，如何確保民生穩定、產業發展跟經濟成長，這是國家的首重課題，也唯有以綜合電業來存續的國營事業才會優先支持政策。當分割這3家的時候，政府說我們有哪些產業政策必須投入，譬如說電力韌性，那這家公司的輸配電要不要投入？它絕對不投入，因為太貴了。光是偏鄉地方，他們怎麼會用這些成本下去做投資？我們整個電力電網是花了千億，這家公司怎麼可能單獨花千億！所以為了支持我們的產業政策、民生穩定、經濟成長，本席是支持綜合電業的。","另外，在主責機關這個部分我要特別給能源署一個掌聲，但是我要課予它一些責任，這件事情需要經濟部給它一個靠山。由於我們是屬於高度能源進口需求的國家，過去能源署只要管2家公司就夠了，管台電、中油就可以掌握國家所有的能源供給，電業自由化所衍生的再生能源業者，能源署應該強化目的事業管理機制。但是我要提到，地方政府對能源的專業是相對欠缺，新科技對於環境、原生產業，乃至於區域發展、民間的宣達，都需要能源署在中央統籌執行。再精準的講，大部分的再生能源場域都是國家權力授予的，不管是離岸風電、光電廠，包括地熱，這都是大概到了20年或25年之後政府要續約，但是我們現在有沒有數據？完全沒數據喔！以現在國家授予的這些地區來講，包括風力、太陽，包括地震所產生的衝擊，這些看起來是誰該做？應該是環境部，可是環境部管不管電力效益？不管！有沒有針對這個場域當中這些天然資源所帶來的數據對於電力效益的綜合評估或是觀察？我為什麼說到地方政府也有關係？養殖場全部都是地方政府啊！養殖場周邊相關的數據為什麼要提供給你能源署呢？所以講到這個工作，當你已經預見25年之後需要再重新續約，或者現在的能源政策在未來5年或10年有沒有需要做一些調整，這些都需要數據的支持，所以我說經濟部需要多給能源署支持，而且要跨部會，跨農業部、跨環境部、跨地方政府，這個東西你叫能源署……當然能源署該做，因為這些東西都會影響電力的效益，但是它要由哪一個單位或機構特別來做？針對這個部分，部長你等一下可能要簡單回應一下。","最後本席具體主張台電是以綜合電業的方式繼續經營，我強烈要求能源署評估建立再生能源場域各級數據監理機制，並規劃台電場域先行試辦，到底是哪些台電的離岸風電或光電場，我們就先行試辦這些數據的整合，因為我剛才講它涉及跨部會跟中央、地方，才能夠有力要求未來民營電廠應該比照辦理。部長，您怎麼看呢？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員指教，我們會在一個月裡面提供這些資料給委員參考。"],["林委員岱樺：謝謝部長，請加油，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林岱樺委員。","下一位請鄭正鈐委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-4","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","陳超明","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","陳培瑜","黃國昌","葉元之","林德福","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-24"],"gazette_id":"1143101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「電業法部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員賴士葆等 17 人擬具\n「電業法第七十四條條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員林岱樺等18人擬具「電業法第六條條文修\n正草案」案；四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「電業法第六條條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員\n邱議瑩等16人擬具「電業法第六條條文修正草案」案；六、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「電業法\n部分條文修正草案」案；七、本院委員鄭正鈐等19人擬具「電業法第七十四條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1143101_00001"}}}