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00:01:06,457\n再去說明一下其實在2017年106年我們的修法裡頭是希望把這一些電業依照電業法讓台電去分家分成三家子公司希望能夠維持供電的穩定但是整個國際局勢的變化這幾年下來看起來分家已經不是一個好的選擇\n\n4\n00:01:08,118 --> 00:01:19,986\n但是我想在過去的這幾年當中台電應該有針對分家這件事情做了一些準備工作嘛對不對所以這個準備工作做完之後我們現在又要再回頭來修法\n\n5\n00:01:21,550 --> 00:01:43,932\n又要再回到台電只是維持一家母公司的這個狀態底下當然會有許多的委員就會批評說那你這個是不是浪費資源如果是這樣當時為什麼要修法讓他搬家那現在又要再把它改回來又要再變成只有一家公司這個我是不是讓台電來說明一下好不好是\n\n6\n00:01:46,371 --> 00:02:06,500\n那個報告委員這幾年台電當然針對電源法的相關規定做了一定程度的準備最重要的準備就是台電針對它的業務功能成立了幾個不同的系統比方說發電一個系統核能一個系統輸電配電都各自有系統而這些系統的運營的狀態財務的狀況都有辦法獨立的統計出來去評比它的經營績效\n\n7\n00:02:13,643 --> 00:02:38,191\n所以你現在是說你們已經有這幾個獨立系統的運作底下你們覺得還是在一個原來的母公司的這個整體的管理之下會是比較好運行的是的跟委員報告首先第一個事情是把一個自然壟斷的產業透過法律的規範拆開這個大家都知道英國當時保守黨的那個嘛\n\n8\n00:02:38,931 --> 00:02:48,570\n主席就是柴契爾夫人提出來的政策這個影響全世界非常久很多國家也都做到相應的政策但最近連英國自己\n\n9\n00:02:49,793 --> 00:03:06,006\n都開始反向都把過去把電業拆開要走成整合所以我覺得這個是國際的潮流看到英國的狀況看到法國的狀況也是你們現在決定還是把它合併還是把它維持一個母公司的最主要的原因嗎以台灣的狀況來講這是一個比較合適的方式\n\n10\n00:03:09,514 --> 00:03:32,612\n好來部長那您覺得就是說現在的這樣的一個修法的進度對於台灣未來的整體能源發展或者是說對於台電未來的整體的發展會不會有更大的幫助大家現在一直在講台電的虧損問題那包括我們在講到這個國際燃料大漲甚至\n\n11\n00:03:34,599 --> 00:04:02,566\n這個我們中油最近去跟這個美國LNG簽了一個大單對於台美關係對於台灣的整個能源政策能源問題是否能夠得到有效的緩解呢是謝謝委員崔薰這個部分我想如果不把它拆分的話為此目前的運作方式對台電應該是最適合的因為他們習慣這樣的一個運作模式而且知道在過去那段日子\n\n12\n00:04:03,306 --> 00:04:21,824\n發生過什麼樣的問題那要面對過去的這個問題他現在可以提出可以解決的方式所以我們這個遵從這個委員剛才所這個提示的部分我們認為委員所主張的這一種不拆分的這個方式應該是最好的方式\n\n13\n00:04:22,591 --> 00:04:38,880\n不拆分我是支持啦但是我其實想要看到更多台電在對於強化電網這一塊所做的努力啦因為我們都一直講說維持供電的穩定是一個很基本的需求嘛現在不拆分讓台電還是一家\n\n14\n00:04:40,222 --> 00:04:55,688\n完全壟斷的公司在處理這些疏配電業所以台電就必須要擔負更重的責任我們一直講要強化電網的韌性但是你們要擔負更重的責任甚至你要投入更多的投資你才有辦法在電網的韌性這一塊去把它強化起來但是很多台電的虧損這麼多錢你們還有錢要去強化電網韌性\n\n15\n00:05:04,071 --> 00:05:28,723\n我們現在大概會導入用AI的方法然後讓他產生智慧的這個電網然後我想這個會強化他整個人性透過算力來觀察他可能未來有什麼樣的變化所以我們對這一部分因為新的科技的導入對台電的這個營運我們更具信心部長新的科技導入也要需要很多電來董事長你好像有話要講來給你介紹一下報告委員那個\n\n16\n00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:53,865\n其實台電不分割不代表台電就是會維持既有的壟斷的狀況我跟委員報告就是現在民營的發電業跟民間需要綠電的廠商他可以直接交易台電只負責做快遞就是鼎泰豐可以賣給想要吃小籠包的人台電做Fupenda\n\n17\n00:05:54,765 --> 00:06:16,335\n我並沒有把小籠包壟斷下來我要跟委員報告現在的狀況台電只有在輸電這個輸配電這個會在自然壟斷的這一塊國家經營而它現在越來越多的發電其實包括我們的機組是在配合著產業需要綠電在做調度我要跟委員報告這一塊是\n\n18\n00:06:17,876 --> 00:06:41,605\n好如果是你剛剛講的啦你只負責當fupenda你只負責當快遞的時候其實你的快遞業務也要增加啦沒錯你的輸配電的這個工程的供給量其實也要快速增加你才能達到你剛剛所講的這一塊啦這也是韌性電網的其中一環嘛是的這些是公共投資尤其是維持韌性這一件事情都是額外投資所以需要國家支持\n\n19\n00:06:43,499 --> 00:06:48,505\n即使我們現在的電源法修完之後我覺得你的公共投資的這個部分還是要持續增加是的好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8162\t13225\t謝謝主席,我是不是請一下部長跟台電總經理、董事長都有來委員早\n25501\t42838\t部長我想剛剛這個本席的提案說明其實也特別點到了幾個國際的局勢那包含我們一直在談電網的韌性這件事情可是我還是想要讓經濟部再更加的這個給您一點時間\n43879\t66457\t再去說明一下其實在2017年106年我們的修法裡頭是希望把這一些電業依照電業法讓台電去分家分成三家子公司希望能夠維持供電的穩定但是整個國際局勢的變化這幾年下來看起來分家已經不是一個好的選擇\n68118\t79986\t但是我想在過去的這幾年當中台電應該有針對分家這件事情做了一些準備工作嘛對不對所以這個準備工作做完之後我們現在又要再回頭來修法\n81550\t103932\t又要再回到台電只是維持一家母公司的這個狀態底下當然會有許多的委員就會批評說那你這個是不是浪費資源如果是這樣當時為什麼要修法讓他搬家那現在又要再把它改回來又要再變成只有一家公司這個我是不是讓台電來說明一下好不好是\n106371\t126500\t那個報告委員這幾年台電當然針對電源法的相關規定做了一定程度的準備最重要的準備就是台電針對它的業務功能成立了幾個不同的系統比方說發電一個系統核能一個系統輸電配電都各自有系統而這些系統的運營的狀態財務的狀況都有辦法獨立的統計出來去評比它的經營績效\n133643\t158191\t所以你現在是說你們已經有這幾個獨立系統的運作底下你們覺得還是在一個原來的母公司的這個整體的管理之下會是比較好運行的是的跟委員報告首先第一個事情是把一個自然壟斷的產業透過法律的規範拆開這個大家都知道英國當時保守黨的那個嘛\n158931\t168570\t主席就是柴契爾夫人提出來的政策這個影響全世界非常久很多國家也都做到相應的政策但最近連英國自己\n169793\t186006\t都開始反向都把過去把電業拆開要走成整合所以我覺得這個是國際的潮流看到英國的狀況看到法國的狀況也是你們現在決定還是把它合併還是把它維持一個母公司的最主要的原因嗎以台灣的狀況來講這是一個比較合適的方式\n189514\t212612\t好來部長那您覺得就是說現在的這樣的一個修法的進度對於台灣未來的整體能源發展或者是說對於台電未來的整體的發展會不會有更大的幫助大家現在一直在講台電的虧損問題那包括我們在講到這個國際燃料大漲甚至\n214599\t242566\t這個我們中油最近去跟這個美國LNG簽了一個大單對於台美關係對於台灣的整個能源政策能源問題是否能夠得到有效的緩解呢是 謝謝委員崔薰這個部分我想如果不把它拆分的話為此目前的運作方式對台電應該是最適合的因為他們習慣這樣的一個運作模式而且知道在過去那段日子\n243306\t261824\t發生過什麼樣的問題那要面對過去的這個問題他現在可以提出可以解決的方式所以我們這個遵從這個委員剛才所這個提示的部分我們認為委員所主張的這一種不拆分的這個方式應該是最好的方式\n262591\t278880\t不拆分我是支持啦但是我其實想要看到更多台電在對於強化電網這一塊所做的努力啦因為我們都一直講說維持供電的穩定是一個很基本的需求嘛現在不拆分讓台電還是一家\n280222\t295688\t完全壟斷的公司在處理這些疏配電業所以台電就必須要擔負更重的責任我們一直講要強化電網的韌性但是你們要擔負更重的責任甚至你要投入更多的投資你才有辦法在電網的韌性這一塊去把它強化起來但是很多台電的虧損這麼多錢你們還有錢要去強化電網韌性\n304071\t328723\t我們現在大概會導入用AI的方法然後讓他產生智慧的這個電網然後我想這個會強化他整個人性透過算力來觀察他可能未來有什麼樣的變化所以我們對這一部分因為新的科技的導入對台電的這個營運我們更具信心部長 新的科技導入也要需要很多電來 董事長你好像有話要講來 給你介紹一下報告委員 那個\n331400\t353865\t其實台電不分割不代表台電就是會維持既有的壟斷的狀況我跟委員報告就是現在民營的發電業跟民間需要綠電的廠商他可以直接交易台電只負責做快遞就是鼎泰豐可以賣給想要吃小籠包的人台電做Fupenda\n354765\t376335\t我並沒有把小籠包壟斷下來我要跟委員報告現在的狀況台電只有在輸電這個輸配電這個會在自然壟斷的這一塊國家經營而它現在越來越多的發電其實包括我們的機組是在配合著產業需要綠電在做調度我要跟委員報告這一塊是\n377876\t401605\t好 如果是你剛剛講的啦你只負責當fupenda你只負責當快遞的時候其實你的快遞業務也要增加啦沒錯你的輸配電的這個工程的供給量其實也要快速增加你才能達到你剛剛所講的這一塊啦這也是韌性電網的其中一環嘛是的 這些是公共投資尤其是維持韌性這一件事情都是額外投資所以需要國家支持\n403499\t408505\t即使我們現在的電源法修完之後我覺得你的公共投資的這個部分還是要持續增加 是的好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我是不是請一下部長跟台電總經理、董事長都有來委員早\n部長我想剛剛這個本席的提案說明其實也特別點到了幾個國際的局勢那包含我們一直在談電網的韌性這件事情可是我還是想要讓經濟部再更加的這個給您一點時間\n再去說明一下其實在2017年106年我們的修法裡頭是希望把這一些電業依照電業法讓台電去分家分成三家子公司希望能夠維持供電的穩定但是整個國際局勢的變化這幾年下來看起來分家已經不是一個好的選擇\n但是我想在過去的這幾年當中台電應該有針對分家這件事情做了一些準備工作嘛對不對所以這個準備工作做完之後我們現在又要再回頭來修法\n又要再回到台電只是維持一家母公司的這個狀態底下當然會有許多的委員就會批評說那你這個是不是浪費資源如果是這樣當時為什麼要修法讓他搬家那現在又要再把它改回來又要再變成只有一家公司這個我是不是讓台電來說明一下好不好是\n那個報告委員這幾年台電當然針對電源法的相關規定做了一定程度的準備最重要的準備就是台電針對它的業務功能成立了幾個不同的系統比方說發電一個系統核能一個系統輸電配電都各自有系統而這些系統的運營的狀態財務的狀況都有辦法獨立的統計出來去評比它的經營績效\n所以你現在是說你們已經有這幾個獨立系統的運作底下你們覺得還是在一個原來的母公司的這個整體的管理之下會是比較好運行的是的跟委員報告首先第一個事情是把一個自然壟斷的產業透過法律的規範拆開這個大家都知道英國當時保守黨的那個嘛\n主席就是柴契爾夫人提出來的政策這個影響全世界非常久很多國家也都做到相應的政策但最近連英國自己\n都開始反向都把過去把電業拆開要走成整合所以我覺得這個是國際的潮流看到英國的狀況看到法國的狀況也是你們現在決定還是把它合併還是把它維持一個母公司的最主要的原因嗎以台灣的狀況來講這是一個比較合適的方式\n好來部長那您覺得就是說現在的這樣的一個修法的進度對於台灣未來的整體能源發展或者是說對於台電未來的整體的發展會不會有更大的幫助大家現在一直在講台電的虧損問題那包括我們在講到這個國際燃料大漲甚至\n這個我們中油最近去跟這個美國LNG簽了一個大單對於台美關係對於台灣的整個能源政策能源問題是否能夠得到有效的緩解呢是 謝謝委員崔薰這個部分我想如果不把它拆分的話為此目前的運作方式對台電應該是最適合的因為他們習慣這樣的一個運作模式而且知道在過去那段日子\n發生過什麼樣的問題那要面對過去的這個問題他現在可以提出可以解決的方式所以我們這個遵從這個委員剛才所這個提示的部分我們認為委員所主張的這一種不拆分的這個方式應該是最好的方式\n不拆分我是支持啦但是我其實想要看到更多台電在對於強化電網這一塊所做的努力啦因為我們都一直講說維持供電的穩定是一個很基本的需求嘛現在不拆分讓台電還是一家\n完全壟斷的公司在處理這些疏配電業所以台電就必須要擔負更重的責任我們一直講要強化電網的韌性但是你們要擔負更重的責任甚至你要投入更多的投資你才有辦法在電網的韌性這一塊去把它強化起來但是很多台電的虧損這麼多錢你們還有錢要去強化電網韌性\n我們現在大概會導入用AI的方法然後讓他產生智慧的這個電網然後我想這個會強化他整個人性透過算力來觀察他可能未來有什麼樣的變化所以我們對這一部分因為新的科技的導入對台電的這個營運我們更具信心部長 新的科技導入也要需要很多電來 董事長你好像有話要講來 給你介紹一下報告委員 那個\n其實台電不分割不代表台電就是會維持既有的壟斷的狀況我跟委員報告就是現在民營的發電業跟民間需要綠電的廠商他可以直接交易台電只負責做快遞就是鼎泰豐可以賣給想要吃小籠包的人台電做Fupenda\n我並沒有把小籠包壟斷下來我要跟委員報告現在的狀況台電只有在輸電這個輸配電這個會在自然壟斷的這一塊國家經營而它現在越來越多的發電其實包括我們的機組是在配合著產業需要綠電在做調度我要跟委員報告這一塊是\n好 如果是你剛剛講的啦你只負責當fupenda你只負責當快遞的時候其實你的快遞業務也要增加啦沒錯你的輸配電的這個工程的供給量其實也要快速增加你才能達到你剛剛所講的這一塊啦這也是韌性電網的其中一環嘛是的 這些是公共投資尤其是維持韌性這一件事情都是額外投資所以需要國家支持\n即使我們現在的電源法修完之後我覺得你的公共投資的這個部分還是要持續增加 是的好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.162 --> 00:13.225\n謝謝主席,我是不是請一下部長跟台電總經理、董事長都有來委員早\n\n00:25.501 --> 00:42.838\n部長我想剛剛這個本席的提案說明其實也特別點到了幾個國際的局勢那包含我們一直在談電網的韌性這件事情可是我還是想要讓經濟部再更加的這個給您一點時間\n\n00:43.879 --> 01:06.457\n再去說明一下其實在2017年106年我們的修法裡頭是希望把這一些電業依照電業法讓台電去分家分成三家子公司希望能夠維持供電的穩定但是整個國際局勢的變化這幾年下來看起來分家已經不是一個好的選擇\n\n01:08.118 --> 01:19.986\n但是我想在過去的這幾年當中台電應該有針對分家這件事情做了一些準備工作嘛對不對所以這個準備工作做完之後我們現在又要再回頭來修法\n\n01:21.550 --> 01:43.932\n又要再回到台電只是維持一家母公司的這個狀態底下當然會有許多的委員就會批評說那你這個是不是浪費資源如果是這樣當時為什麼要修法讓他搬家那現在又要再把它改回來又要再變成只有一家公司這個我是不是讓台電來說明一下好不好是\n\n01:46.371 --> 02:06.500\n那個報告委員這幾年台電當然針對電源法的相關規定做了一定程度的準備最重要的準備就是台電針對它的業務功能成立了幾個不同的系統比方說發電一個系統核能一個系統輸電配電都各自有系統而這些系統的運營的狀態財務的狀況都有辦法獨立的統計出來去評比它的經營績效\n\n02:13.643 --> 02:38.191\n所以你現在是說你們已經有這幾個獨立系統的運作底下你們覺得還是在一個原來的母公司的這個整體的管理之下會是比較好運行的是的跟委員報告首先第一個事情是把一個自然壟斷的產業透過法律的規範拆開這個大家都知道英國當時保守黨的那個嘛\n\n02:38.931 --> 02:48.570\n主席就是柴契爾夫人提出來的政策這個影響全世界非常久很多國家也都做到相應的政策但最近連英國自己\n\n02:49.793 --> 03:06.006\n都開始反向都把過去把電業拆開要走成整合所以我覺得這個是國際的潮流看到英國的狀況看到法國的狀況也是你們現在決定還是把它合併還是把它維持一個母公司的最主要的原因嗎以台灣的狀況來講這是一個比較合適的方式\n\n03:09.514 --> 03:32.612\n好來部長那您覺得就是說現在的這樣的一個修法的進度對於台灣未來的整體能源發展或者是說對於台電未來的整體的發展會不會有更大的幫助大家現在一直在講台電的虧損問題那包括我們在講到這個國際燃料大漲甚至\n\n03:34.599 --> 04:02.566\n這個我們中油最近去跟這個美國LNG簽了一個大單對於台美關係對於台灣的整個能源政策能源問題是否能夠得到有效的緩解呢是謝謝委員崔薰這個部分我想如果不把它拆分的話為此目前的運作方式對台電應該是最適合的因為他們習慣這樣的一個運作模式而且知道在過去那段日子\n\n04:03.306 --> 04:21.824\n發生過什麼樣的問題那要面對過去的這個問題他現在可以提出可以解決的方式所以我們這個遵從這個委員剛才所這個提示的部分我們認為委員所主張的這一種不拆分的這個方式應該是最好的方式\n\n04:22.591 --> 04:38.880\n不拆分我是支持啦但是我其實想要看到更多台電在對於強化電網這一塊所做的努力啦因為我們都一直講說維持供電的穩定是一個很基本的需求嘛現在不拆分讓台電還是一家\n\n04:40.222 --> 04:55.688\n完全壟斷的公司在處理這些疏配電業所以台電就必須要擔負更重的責任我們一直講要強化電網的韌性但是你們要擔負更重的責任甚至你要投入更多的投資你才有辦法在電網的韌性這一塊去把它強化起來但是很多台電的虧損這麼多錢你們還有錢要去強化電網韌性\n\n05:04.071 --> 05:28.723\n我們現在大概會導入用AI的方法然後讓他產生智慧的這個電網然後我想這個會強化他整個人性透過算力來觀察他可能未來有什麼樣的變化所以我們對這一部分因為新的科技的導入對台電的這個營運我們更具信心部長新的科技導入也要需要很多電來董事長你好像有話要講來給你介紹一下報告委員那個\n\n05:31.400 --> 05:53.865\n其實台電不分割不代表台電就是會維持既有的壟斷的狀況我跟委員報告就是現在民營的發電業跟民間需要綠電的廠商他可以直接交易台電只負責做快遞就是鼎泰豐可以賣給想要吃小籠包的人台電做Fupenda\n\n05:54.765 --> 06:16.335\n我並沒有把小籠包壟斷下來我要跟委員報告現在的狀況台電只有在輸電這個輸配電這個會在自然壟斷的這一塊國家經營而它現在越來越多的發電其實包括我們的機組是在配合著產業需要綠電在做調度我要跟委員報告這一塊是\n\n06:17.876 --> 06:41.605\n好如果是你剛剛講的啦你只負責當fupenda你只負責當快遞的時候其實你的快遞業務也要增加啦沒錯你的輸配電的這個工程的供給量其實也要快速增加你才能達到你剛剛所講的這一塊啦這也是韌性電網的其中一環嘛是的這些是公共投資尤其是維持韌性這一件事情都是額外投資所以需要國家支持\n\n06:43.499 --> 06:48.505\n即使我們現在的電源法修完之後我覺得你的公共投資的這個部分還是要持續增加是的好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.162,"end":13.225,"text":"謝謝主席,我是不是請一下部長跟台電總經理、董事長都有來委員早"},{"start":25.501,"end":42.838,"text":"部長我想剛剛這個本席的提案說明其實也特別點到了幾個國際的局勢那包含我們一直在談電網的韌性這件事情可是我還是想要讓經濟部再更加的這個給您一點時間"},{"start":43.879,"end":66.457,"text":"再去說明一下其實在2017年106年我們的修法裡頭是希望把這一些電業依照電業法讓台電去分家分成三家子公司希望能夠維持供電的穩定但是整個國際局勢的變化這幾年下來看起來分家已經不是一個好的選擇"},{"start":68.118,"end":79.986,"text":"但是我想在過去的這幾年當中台電應該有針對分家這件事情做了一些準備工作嘛對不對所以這個準備工作做完之後我們現在又要再回頭來修法"},{"start":81.55,"end":103.932,"text":"又要再回到台電只是維持一家母公司的這個狀態底下當然會有許多的委員就會批評說那你這個是不是浪費資源如果是這樣當時為什麼要修法讓他搬家那現在又要再把它改回來又要再變成只有一家公司這個我是不是讓台電來說明一下好不好是"},{"start":106.371,"end":126.5,"text":"那個報告委員這幾年台電當然針對電源法的相關規定做了一定程度的準備最重要的準備就是台電針對它的業務功能成立了幾個不同的系統比方說發電一個系統核能一個系統輸電配電都各自有系統而這些系統的運營的狀態財務的狀況都有辦法獨立的統計出來去評比它的經營績效"},{"start":133.643,"end":158.191,"text":"所以你現在是說你們已經有這幾個獨立系統的運作底下你們覺得還是在一個原來的母公司的這個整體的管理之下會是比較好運行的是的跟委員報告首先第一個事情是把一個自然壟斷的產業透過法律的規範拆開這個大家都知道英國當時保守黨的那個嘛"},{"start":158.931,"end":168.57,"text":"主席就是柴契爾夫人提出來的政策這個影響全世界非常久很多國家也都做到相應的政策但最近連英國自己"},{"start":169.793,"end":186.006,"text":"都開始反向都把過去把電業拆開要走成整合所以我覺得這個是國際的潮流看到英國的狀況看到法國的狀況也是你們現在決定還是把它合併還是把它維持一個母公司的最主要的原因嗎以台灣的狀況來講這是一個比較合適的方式"},{"start":189.514,"end":212.612,"text":"好來部長那您覺得就是說現在的這樣的一個修法的進度對於台灣未來的整體能源發展或者是說對於台電未來的整體的發展會不會有更大的幫助大家現在一直在講台電的虧損問題那包括我們在講到這個國際燃料大漲甚至"},{"start":214.599,"end":242.566,"text":"這個我們中油最近去跟這個美國LNG簽了一個大單對於台美關係對於台灣的整個能源政策能源問題是否能夠得到有效的緩解呢是 謝謝委員崔薰這個部分我想如果不把它拆分的話為此目前的運作方式對台電應該是最適合的因為他們習慣這樣的一個運作模式而且知道在過去那段日子"},{"start":243.306,"end":261.824,"text":"發生過什麼樣的問題那要面對過去的這個問題他現在可以提出可以解決的方式所以我們這個遵從這個委員剛才所這個提示的部分我們認為委員所主張的這一種不拆分的這個方式應該是最好的方式"},{"start":262.591,"end":278.88,"text":"不拆分我是支持啦但是我其實想要看到更多台電在對於強化電網這一塊所做的努力啦因為我們都一直講說維持供電的穩定是一個很基本的需求嘛現在不拆分讓台電還是一家"},{"start":280.222,"end":295.688,"text":"完全壟斷的公司在處理這些疏配電業所以台電就必須要擔負更重的責任我們一直講要強化電網的韌性但是你們要擔負更重的責任甚至你要投入更多的投資你才有辦法在電網的韌性這一塊去把它強化起來但是很多台電的虧損這麼多錢你們還有錢要去強化電網韌性"},{"start":304.071,"end":328.723,"text":"我們現在大概會導入用AI的方法然後讓他產生智慧的這個電網然後我想這個會強化他整個人性透過算力來觀察他可能未來有什麼樣的變化所以我們對這一部分因為新的科技的導入對台電的這個營運我們更具信心部長 新的科技導入也要需要很多電來 董事長你好像有話要講來 給你介紹一下報告委員 那個"},{"start":331.4,"end":353.865,"text":"其實台電不分割不代表台電就是會維持既有的壟斷的狀況我跟委員報告就是現在民營的發電業跟民間需要綠電的廠商他可以直接交易台電只負責做快遞就是鼎泰豐可以賣給想要吃小籠包的人台電做Fupenda"},{"start":354.765,"end":376.335,"text":"我並沒有把小籠包壟斷下來我要跟委員報告現在的狀況台電只有在輸電這個輸配電這個會在自然壟斷的這一塊國家經營而它現在越來越多的發電其實包括我們的機組是在配合著產業需要綠電在做調度我要跟委員報告這一塊是"},{"start":377.876,"end":401.605,"text":"好 如果是你剛剛講的啦你只負責當fupenda你只負責當快遞的時候其實你的快遞業務也要增加啦沒錯你的輸配電的這個工程的供給量其實也要快速增加你才能達到你剛剛所講的這一塊啦這也是韌性電網的其中一環嘛是的 這些是公共投資尤其是維持韌性這一件事情都是額外投資所以需要國家支持"},{"start":403.499,"end":408.505,"text":"即使我們現在的電源法修完之後我覺得你的公共投資的這個部分還是要持續增加 是的好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":135,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時30分）謝謝主席。是不是請一下部長跟台電董事長還是台電總經理，好嗎？"],["主席：請部長跟台電……"],["邱委員議瑩：今天是總經理列席嗎？"],["主席：總經理、董事長都有來。"],["邱委員議瑩：好。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["邱委員議瑩：早。部長，剛剛本席的提案說明其實也特別點到了幾個國際的局勢，包含我們一直在談電網的韌性這件事情，可是我還是想要給經濟部一點時間再去說明一下。其實在2017年（民國106年）我們的修法裡頭是希望依照電業法讓台電分家，分成3家子公司，以維持供電的穩定，不過隨著整個國際局勢的變化，這幾年下來，看起來分家已經不是一個好的選擇，但是我想在過去這幾年當中，台電應該有針對分家這件事情做了一些準備工作，對不對？所以這個準備工作做完之後，我們現在又要再回頭來修法，回到台電只維持1家母公司的狀態底下，當然就會有許多委員批評這個是不是浪費資源，如果是這樣，當時為什麼要修法，讓它分家？現在又要再改回來，變成只有1家公司，這個是不是讓台電說明一下，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["曾董事長文生：報告委員，這幾天台電當然針對電業法的相關規定做了一定程度的準備，最重要的準備就是台電針對業務功能成立了幾個不同的系統，比方發電一個系統、核能一個系統、輸電及配電都各自有系統，而這些系統的運營狀態、財務的狀況都有辦法獨立地統計出來，去評比經濟效益……"],["邱委員議瑩：所以你現在是說你們已經有這幾個獨立系統的運作底下，你們覺得還是在一個原來母公司整體的管理之下會是比較好運行的？"],["曾董事長文生：是的。跟委員報告，第一個事情是，把一個自然壟斷的產業透過法律的規範拆開，大家都知道這是當時英國保守黨主席柴契爾夫人提出來的政策……"],["邱委員議瑩：是。"],["曾董事長文生：這個影響全世界非常久，很多國家也都做了相應的政策，但最近連英國保守黨自己都開始反向，把過去電業拆開要走成整合，所以我覺得這個是國際的潮流。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以董事長，除了你們自己的運作以外，看到英國的狀況、看到法國的狀況，也是你們現在決定還是把它合併、維持一個母公司最主要的原因嗎？"],["曾董事長文生：以臺灣的狀況來講，這是一個比較合適的方式。"],["邱委員議瑩：好。部長，您覺得現在這樣的修法進度，對於臺灣未來整體的能源發展或者對於台電未來的整體發展，會不會有更大的幫助？大家現在一直在講台電的虧損問題，包括我們講到國際燃料大漲，甚至中油最近跟美國簽了一個LNG大單，對於臺美關係、對於臺灣整個能源政策、能源問題是否能夠得到有效的緩解呢？部長，我想聽一下您的意見。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員垂詢。關於這個部分，如果不把它拆分的話，維持目前的運作方式對台電應該是最適合的，因為他們習慣這樣的運作模式，而且知道在過去那段日子發生過什麼樣的問題，以及要面對過去的問題，他們現在提出可以解決的方式。所以我們遵從委員剛才所提示的部分，我們認為委員所主張的這種不拆分方式應該是最好的方式。"],["邱委員議瑩：不拆分我是支持的，但是我其實想要看到更多台電對於強化電網這一塊所做的努力，因為我們都一直講說維持供電的穩定是一個很基本的需求，現在不拆分，讓台電還是一家完全壟斷的公司在處理這些輸配電業，所以台電就必須要擔負更重的責任。我們一直講要強化電網的韌性，但是你們要擔負更重的責任，甚至要投入更多的投資，才有辦法在電網的韌性這一塊強化起來。"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["邱委員議瑩：但是現在台電就虧損這麼多錢，你們怎麼還有錢去強化電網韌性？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在大概會導入用AI的方法產生智慧電網，我想這個會強化整個韌性，透過算力來觀察未來有什麼樣的變化，所以新的科技導入讓我們對台電的營運更具信心。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，新的科技導入也需要很多電。董事長，你好像有話要講，讓你說明一下。"],["曾董事長文生：報告委員，其實台電不分割，不代表台電就會維持既有壟斷的狀況。跟委員報告，民營發電業跟民間需要綠電的廠商可以直接交易，台電只負責做快遞，就是鼎泰豐可以賣給想要吃小籠包的人，台電就做foodpanda，我並沒有把小籠包壟斷下來。我要跟委員報告，以現在的狀況，台電只有在輸配電會自然壟斷這一塊由國家經營，而現在越來越多的發電、其實包括我們的機組是在配合著產業需要綠電在做調度……"],["邱委員議瑩：好，董事長，我的時間到了……"],["曾董事長文生：我要跟委員報告，這一塊不是台電……"],["邱委員議瑩：如果是你剛剛講的，你只負責當foodpanda、只負責當快遞的時候，其實你的快遞業務也要增加。"],["曾董事長文生：沒錯。"],["邱委員議瑩：你的輸配電工程供給量也要快速增加，才能達到您剛剛所講的這一塊。"],["曾董事長文生：這些有公共投資。"],["邱委員議瑩：這也是韌性電網的其中一環，對不對？"],["曾董事長文生：是的。這些是公共投資，尤其是維持韌性這件事情都是額外投資，所以需要國家支持。"],["邱委員議瑩：是，所以你們的公共投資還是要持續增加。即使現在電業法修完之後，我覺得你們的公共投資部分還是要持續增加。"],["曾董事長文生：是的。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱議瑩委員。","下一位請張啓楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-4","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","陳超明","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","陳培瑜","黃國昌","葉元之","林德福","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-24"],"gazette_id":"1143101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「電業法部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員賴士葆等 17 人擬具\n「電業法第七十四條條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員林岱樺等18人擬具「電業法第六條條文修\n正草案」案；四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「電業法第六條條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員\n邱議瑩等16人擬具「電業法第六條條文修正草案」案；六、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「電業法\n部分條文修正草案」案；七、本院委員鄭正鈐等19人擬具「電業法第七十四條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1143101_00001"}}}