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{\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 474.515, \"end\": 474.635, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 474.635, \"end\": 475.195, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 475.195, \"end\": 475.295, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 475.295, \"end\": 475.475, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 475.475, \"end\": 475.675, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 475.675, \"end\": 475.856, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 475.856, \"end\": 475.876, \"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 476.844, \"end\": 495.862, \"text\": \"這跟補助台電的道理是一樣的啊因為一般我們有剩餘是透過在政策上一個表達所以我們會先進到一個累積剩餘的一個累積然後再編列預算來做政策性的一個我看你的報告說今年扣除所有的債務還本我們大概還有1581億\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 476.844, \"end\": 477.745, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 477.745, \"end\": 477.885, \"score\": 0.676}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 477.885, \"end\": 478.145, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 494.4, \"end\": 494.56, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 494.56, \"end\": 494.781, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 494.781, \"end\": 494.961, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 494.961, \"end\": 495.181, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 495.181, \"end\": 495.321, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 495.321, \"end\": 495.461, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 495.461, \"end\": 495.481, \"score\": 0.063}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 495.481, \"end\": 495.581, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 495.581, \"end\": 495.601, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 495.601, \"end\": 495.681, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 495.681, \"end\": 495.842, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 495.842, \"end\": 495.862, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}]}, {\"start\": 500.766, \"end\": 507.297, \"text\": \"所以這1581億難道不可以來還稅漁民嗎這你完全扣除所有的債務了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 500.766, \"end\": 500.987, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 500.987, \"end\": 503.17, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 503.17, \"end\": 503.411, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 503.411, \"end\": 503.551, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 503.551, \"end\": 503.691, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 503.691, \"end\": 504.513, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"漁\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 504.513, \"end\": 505.574, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 505.574, \"end\": 505.895, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 505.895, \"end\": 506.095, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 506.095, \"end\": 506.276, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 506.276, \"end\": 506.476, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 506.476, \"end\": 506.636, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 506.636, \"end\": 506.776, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 506.776, \"end\": 506.877, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 506.877, \"end\": 507.277, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 507.277, \"end\": 507.297, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 509.124, \"end\": 534.497, \"text\": \"因為裡面我們如果說要把它放在115年我們也或者是追加我們也必須要等到7月審計部審定以後我們才可以來做這個我們了解但是你的政策方向要很明確告訴我們說這個是可以的而不是說這個不能常態這樣不能常態化這個就講的就讓我們覺得很奇怪實際上這是可行的嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 509.124, \"end\": 509.584, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 533.096, \"end\": 533.436, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 533.436, \"end\": 533.616, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 533.616, \"end\": 533.997, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 533.997, \"end\": 534.317, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 534.317, \"end\": 534.477, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 534.477, \"end\": 534.497, \"score\": 0.852}]}, {\"start\": 535.217, \"end\": 555.744, \"text\": \"當初發放現金重點是經濟成長不好然後第二個是因為疫後疫後我們為了要刺激經濟讓它能夠有護輸所以我們才會做一個這樣因為卓院長在3月6號的院會備詢的時候他表示會往在野黨所提撲發現金的方向走\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"初\", \"start\": 535.217, \"end\": 535.397, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 535.397, \"end\": 535.597, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 535.597, \"end\": 536.337, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 536.337, \"end\": 536.858, \"score\": 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0.749}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 593.686, \"end\": 593.946, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"誤\"}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 593.946, \"end\": 593.966, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 604.429, \"end\": 624.007, \"text\": \"這個部分可能是財政部要說明的部分這個部分我們不屬於妳的對 因為稅務的估計是屬於財政部的業務那主計總數啊財政部 所以我問妳財政部每年都這樣一直超增所謂的講說是估計誤差那過去主計總數都沒有發覺這樣離譜的誤差的稅收預估狀況嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 604.429, \"end\": 604.87, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 604.87, \"end\": 605.01, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 605.01, \"end\": 605.17, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 605.17, \"end\": 605.39, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 605.39, \"end\": 606.471, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 606.471, \"end\": 606.631, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 606.631, \"end\": 606.771, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 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\"start\": 686.348, \"end\": 686.468, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 686.468, \"end\": 686.488, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,042 --> 00:00:12,171\n好謝謝主席我們請這個陳主委長好陳主委長請\n\n2\n00:00:18,294 --> 00:00:34,201\n委員長好主委長您在這個2月26號我們主席總署發布國內的經濟預測表示因為立法院刪減預算所以會這個削弱成長動能因而下修今年的經濟成長率是3.14%教育測數減少0.15%\n\n3\n00:00:41,984 --> 00:00:58,858\n這樣真的是如此嗎局長來我讓你看那個我們這個PVT局長你可以看到幾乎所有的單位在院會被巡視都表示今年度的預算都有增加我們看國防部增加400多億\n\n4\n00:00:59,659 --> 00:01:10,083\n教育部增加300億內政部增加400億交通部增加389億農業部增加83.2億衛福部增加306億國科會增加132億科爾會增加也增加了4億主席長你說這個增加這麼多啊\n\n5\n00:01:21,486 --> 00:01:38,951\n總預算數的總額高達兩兆九千兩百四十八億也比一百一十三年度多了一千三百六十八億整個中央政府的總預算比去年度增加了百分之二點五六你說對不對\n\n6\n00:01:41,044 --> 00:02:00,858\n這個數據對不對報告委員因為增加的項目是增加2,806億那主要是增加公共建設對健保的一個補助還有一些調薪這些等等但是三檢的部分是三檢集中在部分的機關還有業務費所以這樣才會有執行困難就是這個我剛才提的數據都對嘛\n\n7\n00:02:05,541 --> 00:02:12,590\n所以說您對外界說是因為立法院刪減預算所以下修今年的經濟成長率\n\n8\n00:02:15,682 --> 00:02:37,127\n這個部分我也跟委員在說明他主要有幾點的一個因素影響第一個他前面的基數就已經很高了他又提高因為本來我們預估是比較少再又提高所以他今年我們這增減會減少那第二個預算也有一點點有影響雖然影響沒有但是也有影響預算也有影響就是以前面基期高\n\n9\n00:02:39,187 --> 00:02:40,368\n因為你這樣的說法跟央行總裁的講法完全背道而馳\n\n10\n00:02:59,740 --> 00:03:14,924\n央行他在這個下修今年的成長率他的專業評估是因為川普這個上任對經濟充滿不確定政策充滿不確定性川普將科對等關稅恐將衝擊出口\n\n11\n00:03:18,905 --> 00:03:48,035\n台積電擴大赴美設廠恐衝擊國內的投資所以才下修經濟成長率跟你講的什麼總預算什麼三減會影響所謂的這個經濟的成長率完全背道而馳啊你這個說法不是很外行嗎主委長你身為我們中華民國的這個整個預算的一個這個主計啊你講這樣的下修成長率跟預算算數有關\n\n12\n00:03:49,917 --> 00:04:02,446\n是有關的但是我要跟委員報告因為川普的這個因素目前一直還不確定中所以這個因素一直還沒有放到評估裡面去這個才是最大的因素跟你講說什麼跟這個預算總預算的三減有關\n\n13\n00:04:20,538 --> 00:04:45,960\n聽起來很外行你講這個話另外有關今天我們討論預算法的修正那主席總書在3月7號你對外指出說收支剩餘應優先用於償債或留工未來重大的正式支出應考量保留政策彈性普發現金不宜常態性來辦理你這個說法我今天告訴你你根本是在凸顯行政院\n\n14\n00:04:47,021 --> 00:04:55,027\n這幾年撥補台電的不適宜啦局長你知道說這個過去啊我們編列多少次的預算補助台電嗎\n\n15\n00:04:56,983 --> 00:05:18,937\n目前補助3000億總額是3000億總共幾次我告訴你三次所以我們知道台電到今年2月它已經連續三年的大虧損累計的虧損高達4229億主要的原因就是依照童子賢先生講的\n\n16\n00:05:20,678 --> 00:05:30,806\n就是因為錯誤的能源政策以及整個能源採購與經營的效益不彰而下個月台電又要再次調漲電價預計四月份我們的民生電價要漲11%\n\n17\n00:05:37,110 --> 00:06:00,780\n產業的電價漲5%這將衝擊到1450萬戶產業民生的影響所有的電價全調這也是我們四年來第五次的漲價因此照這樣的延續的補助台電是否也可以認定是常態性的辦理一直補助台電這是常態性的辦理嗎\n\n18\n00:06:02,629 --> 00:06:23,601\n其實不是常態性的辦理但是主要是因為他對於民生的電價他沒有漲所以這個部分呢就高達有2800億左右那這個部分我們主要是彌補他這個不叫常態性的辦理喔每年在家虧損就一直補助他用政府編列預算來補助他是但是你說這不是常態性的\n\n19\n00:06:24,161 --> 00:06:46,811\n以國外的一個例子來看他調整的一個調整的電價調得更高所以這樣子的話民生更沒辦法承受所以這個部分我們在調節的部分你現在是說補助的問題現在一直補助他每年他有虧損我們政府就要編列預算來補助他像你今年你要編一千億的公務預算\n\n20\n00:06:47,651 --> 00:07:09,556\n都是用政府編列預算來補助所以這樣的補助的方式未來只要台電有虧損我們就要補助這不是叫常態性嗎不是這個部分主要是他有配合行政院針對政策性的讓他民生電價不要漲價這個部分來做彌補所以這個部分才叫做才補貼這個部分這樣啦這個組長我問你對於台電的一個撥補這個屬不屬於我們的常債\n\n21\n00:07:16,827 --> 00:07:44,703\n這不是常債這不是常債嘛對啊所以不是常債那我們現在講我們超增稅收要來這個還稅於民你說台電可以用我們上一次也有用我們超增的稅收來補助他嗎所以你說這不是這個常態嗎那請問你那我們這一次把我們這個要求說把我們超增的稅收來還稅於民這個是常態嗎\n\n22\n00:07:46,089 --> 00:07:55,876\n因為他如果變在余政法裡面他就會變成常態所以你要把超徵的稅收我們把要求還稅於民這是OK的啊\n\n23\n00:07:56,844 --> 00:08:15,862\n這跟補助台電的道理是一樣的啊因為一般我們有剩餘是透過在政策上一個表達所以我們會先進到一個累積剩餘的一個累積然後再編列預算來做政策性的一個我看你的報告說今年扣除所有的債務還本我們大概還有1581億\n\n24\n00:08:20,766 --> 00:08:27,297\n所以這1581億難道不可以來還稅漁民嗎這你完全扣除所有的債務了\n\n25\n00:08:29,124 --> 00:08:54,497\n因為裡面我們如果說要把它放在115年我們也或者是追加我們也必須要等到7月審計部審定以後我們才可以來做這個我們了解但是你的政策方向要很明確告訴我們說這個是可以的而不是說這個不能常態這樣不能常態化這個就講的就讓我們覺得很奇怪實際上這是可行的嘛\n\n26\n00:08:55,217 --> 00:09:15,744\n當初發放現金重點是經濟成長不好然後第二個是因為疫後疫後我們為了要刺激經濟讓它能夠有護輸所以我們才會做一個這樣因為卓院長在3月6號的院會備詢的時候他表示會往在野黨所提撲發現金的方向走\n\n27\n00:09:16,644 --> 00:09:35,101\n但是今天主席總書的報告包含您剛才的一個詢答您是對此不表認同啊所以主席長我們主席總書是反對卓院長他所這個詢答的時候他所表示的方向嗎我們是對一定在法條裡面我們是不支持是這樣的一個意思\n\n28\n00:09:35,581 --> 00:09:53,966\n是說你如果支持了以後這個部分定在法條以後將來就是變成他沒有彈性那沒有彈性的話執行的時候就會比較針對其他的一個政務的影響就會蠻大另外我想剩一點點時間問你您的報告說稅收時增超過預算數是屬估計誤差請問你是這個所謂的估計誤差是怎樣子的一個估計誤差\n\n29\n00:10:04,429 --> 00:10:24,007\n這個部分可能是財政部要說明的部分這個部分我們不屬於妳的對因為稅務的估計是屬於財政部的業務那主計總數啊財政部所以我問妳財政部每年都這樣一直超增所謂的講說是估計誤差那過去主計總數都沒有發覺這樣離譜的誤差的稅收預估狀況嗎\n\n30\n00:10:30,373 --> 00:10:43,561\n我們114年就把他這個修正了所以我們114年的一個稅入也大幅的增加這樣財政部這樣一直說超徵有沒有這個114年錄音估計會有這麼大的誤差總共10年喔10年來都超徵啊這樣是不是破壞財政距離這樣會不會破壞財政距離啊\n\n31\n00:10:51,745 --> 00:11:14,760\n這本身這個114年預算的稅入我們就已經有做修正了這個部分所以你這樣忽視財政部這樣離譜的預算編列能力與誤差主計總部是否有你你是否有失職我們今年已經有經營請他修正了所以今年的一個稅入又有大幅的一個修正謝謝好以上好謝謝好謝謝那個\n\n32\n00:11:21,141 --> 00:11:26,488\n林思明委員對執行好下一位請陳立正委員執行請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9042\t12171\t好 謝謝主席 我們請這個陳主委長好 陳主委長請\n18294\t34201\t委員長好 主委長您在這個2月26號我們主席總署發布國內的經濟預測表示因為立法院刪減預算所以會這個削弱成長動能因而下修今年的經濟成長率是3.14%教育測數減少0.15%\n41984\t58858\t這樣真的是如此嗎 局長來我讓你看那個我們這個PVT局長你可以看到幾乎所有的單位在院會被巡視都表示今年度的預算都有增加我們看國防部增加400多億\n59659\t70083\t教育部增加300億內政部增加400億交通部增加389億農業部增加83.2億衛福部增加306億國科會增加132億科爾會增加也增加了4億主席長你說這個增加這麼多啊\n81486\t98951\t總預算數的總額高達兩兆九千兩百四十八億也比一百一十三年度多了一千三百六十八億整個中央政府的總預算比去年度增加了百分之二點五六你說對不對\n101044\t120858\t這個數據對不對報告委員因為增加的項目是增加2,806億那主要是增加公共建設對健保的一個補助還有一些調薪這些等等但是三檢的部分是三檢集中在部分的機關還有業務費所以這樣才會有執行困難就是這個我剛才提的數據都對嘛\n125541\t132590\t所以說您對外界說是因為立法院刪減預算所以下修今年的經濟成長率\n135682\t157127\t這個部分我也跟委員在說明他主要有幾點的一個因素影響第一個他前面的基數就已經很高了他又提高因為本來我們預估是比較少再又提高所以他今年我們這增減會減少那第二個預算也有一點點有影響雖然影響沒有但是也有影響預算也有影響就是以前面基期高\n159187\t160368\t因為你這樣的說法跟央行總裁的講法完全背道而馳\n179740\t194924\t央行他在這個下修今年的成長率他的專業評估是因為川普這個上任對經濟充滿不確定政策充滿不確定性川普將科對等關稅恐將衝擊出口\n198905\t228035\t台積電擴大赴美設廠恐衝擊國內的投資所以才下修經濟成長率跟你講的什麼總預算什麼三減會影響所謂的這個經濟的成長率完全背道而馳啊你這個說法不是很外行嗎主委長你身為我們中華民國的這個整個預算的一個這個主計啊你講這樣的下修成長率跟預算算數有關\n229917\t242446\t是有關的但是我要跟委員報告因為川普的這個因素目前一直還不確定中所以這個因素一直還沒有放到評估裡面去這個才是最大的因素跟你講說什麼跟這個預算總預算的三減有關\n260538\t285960\t聽起來很外行你講這個話另外有關今天我們討論預算法的修正那主席總書在3月7號你對外指出說收支剩餘應優先用於償債或留工未來重大的正式支出應考量保留政策彈性普發現金不宜常態性來辦理你這個說法我今天告訴你你根本是在凸顯行政院\n287021\t295027\t這幾年撥補台電的不適宜啦局長你知道說這個過去啊我們編列多少次的預算補助台電嗎\n296983\t318937\t目前補助3000億總額是3000億 總共幾次 我告訴你三次所以我們知道台電到今年2月 它已經連續三年的大虧損累計的虧損高達4229億主要的原因就是依照童子賢先生講的\n320678\t330806\t就是因為錯誤的能源政策以及整個能源採購與經營的效益不彰而下個月台電又要再次調漲電價預計四月份我們的民生電價要漲11%\n337110\t360780\t產業的電價漲5%這將衝擊到1450萬戶產業民生的影響所有的電價全調這也是我們四年來第五次的漲價因此照這樣的延續的補助台電是否也可以認定是常態性的辦理一直補助台電這是常態性的辦理嗎\n362629\t383601\t其實不是常態性的辦理但是主要是因為他對於民生的電價他沒有漲所以這個部分呢就高達有2800億左右那這個部分我們主要是彌補他這個不叫常態性的辦理喔每年在家虧損就一直補助他用政府編列預算來補助他是但是你說這不是常態性的\n384161\t406811\t以國外的一個例子來看他調整的一個調整的電價調得更高所以這樣子的話民生更沒辦法承受所以這個部分我們在調節的部分你現在是說補助的問題現在一直補助他每年他有虧損我們政府就要編列預算來補助他像你今年你要編一千億的公務預算\n407651\t429556\t都是用政府編列預算來補助所以這樣的補助的方式未來只要台電有虧損我們就要補助這不是叫常態性嗎不是這個部分主要是他有配合行政院針對政策性的讓他民生電價不要漲價這個部分來做彌補所以這個部分才叫做才補貼這個部分這樣啦 這個組長我問你對於台電的一個撥補這個屬不屬於我們的常債\n436827\t464703\t這不是常債這不是常債嘛對啊所以不是常債那我們現在講我們超增稅收要來這個還稅於民你說台電可以用我們上一次也有用我們超增的稅收來補助他嗎所以你說這不是這個常態嗎那請問你那我們這一次把我們這個要求說把我們超增的稅收來還稅於民這個是常態嗎\n466089\t475876\t因為他如果變在余政法裡面他就會變成常態所以你要把超徵的稅收我們把要求還稅於民這是OK的啊\n476844\t495862\t這跟補助台電的道理是一樣的啊因為一般我們有剩餘是透過在政策上一個表達所以我們會先進到一個累積剩餘的一個累積然後再編列預算來做政策性的一個我看你的報告說今年扣除所有的債務還本我們大概還有1581億\n500766\t507297\t所以這1581億難道不可以來還稅漁民嗎這你完全扣除所有的債務了\n509124\t534497\t因為裡面我們如果說要把它放在115年我們也或者是追加我們也必須要等到7月審計部審定以後我們才可以來做這個我們了解但是你的政策方向要很明確告訴我們說這個是可以的而不是說這個不能常態這樣不能常態化這個就講的就讓我們覺得很奇怪實際上這是可行的嘛\n535217\t555744\t當初發放現金重點是經濟成長不好然後第二個是因為疫後疫後我們為了要刺激經濟讓它能夠有護輸所以我們才會做一個這樣因為卓院長在3月6號的院會備詢的時候他表示會往在野黨所提撲發現金的方向走\n556644\t575101\t但是今天主席總書的報告 包含您剛才的一個詢答 您是對此不表認同啊所以主席長 我們主席總書是反對卓院長 他所這個詢答的時候 他所表示的方向嗎我們是對一定在法條裡面 我們是不支持是這樣的一個意思\n575581\t593966\t是說你如果支持了以後這個部分定在法條以後將來就是變成他沒有彈性那沒有彈性的話執行的時候就會比較針對其他的一個政務的影響就會蠻大另外我想剩一點點時間問你您的報告說稅收時增超過預算數是屬估計誤差請問你是這個所謂的估計誤差是怎樣子的一個估計誤差\n604429\t624007\t這個部分可能是財政部要說明的部分這個部分我們不屬於妳的對 因為稅務的估計是屬於財政部的業務那主計總數啊財政部 所以我問妳財政部每年都這樣一直超增所謂的講說是估計誤差那過去主計總數都沒有發覺這樣離譜的誤差的稅收預估狀況嗎\n630373\t643561\t我們114年就把他這個修正了所以我們114年的一個稅入也大幅的增加這樣財政部這樣一直說超徵有沒有這個114年錄音估計會有這麼大的誤差 總共10年喔10年來都超徵啊這樣是不是破壞財政距離這樣會不會破壞財政距離啊\n651745\t674760\t這本身這個114年預算的稅入我們就已經有做修正了這個部分所以你這樣忽視財政部這樣離譜的預算編列能力與誤差主計總部是否有你你是否有失職我們今年已經有經營請他修正了所以今年的一個稅入又有大幅的一個修正謝謝好以上好謝謝好謝謝那個\n681141\t686488\t林思明委員對 執行好 下一位請陳立正委員執行 請\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們請這個陳主委長好 陳主委長請\n委員長好 主委長您在這個2月26號我們主席總署發布國內的經濟預測表示因為立法院刪減預算所以會這個削弱成長動能因而下修今年的經濟成長率是3.14%教育測數減少0.15%\n這樣真的是如此嗎 局長來我讓你看那個我們這個PVT局長你可以看到幾乎所有的單位在院會被巡視都表示今年度的預算都有增加我們看國防部增加400多億\n教育部增加300億內政部增加400億交通部增加389億農業部增加83.2億衛福部增加306億國科會增加132億科爾會增加也增加了4億主席長你說這個增加這麼多啊\n總預算數的總額高達兩兆九千兩百四十八億也比一百一十三年度多了一千三百六十八億整個中央政府的總預算比去年度增加了百分之二點五六你說對不對\n這個數據對不對報告委員因為增加的項目是增加2,806億那主要是增加公共建設對健保的一個補助還有一些調薪這些等等但是三檢的部分是三檢集中在部分的機關還有業務費所以這樣才會有執行困難就是這個我剛才提的數據都對嘛\n所以說您對外界說是因為立法院刪減預算所以下修今年的經濟成長率\n這個部分我也跟委員在說明他主要有幾點的一個因素影響第一個他前面的基數就已經很高了他又提高因為本來我們預估是比較少再又提高所以他今年我們這增減會減少那第二個預算也有一點點有影響雖然影響沒有但是也有影響預算也有影響就是以前面基期高\n因為你這樣的說法跟央行總裁的講法完全背道而馳\n央行他在這個下修今年的成長率他的專業評估是因為川普這個上任對經濟充滿不確定政策充滿不確定性川普將科對等關稅恐將衝擊出口\n台積電擴大赴美設廠恐衝擊國內的投資所以才下修經濟成長率跟你講的什麼總預算什麼三減會影響所謂的這個經濟的成長率完全背道而馳啊你這個說法不是很外行嗎主委長你身為我們中華民國的這個整個預算的一個這個主計啊你講這樣的下修成長率跟預算算數有關\n是有關的但是我要跟委員報告因為川普的這個因素目前一直還不確定中所以這個因素一直還沒有放到評估裡面去這個才是最大的因素跟你講說什麼跟這個預算總預算的三減有關\n聽起來很外行你講這個話另外有關今天我們討論預算法的修正那主席總書在3月7號你對外指出說收支剩餘應優先用於償債或留工未來重大的正式支出應考量保留政策彈性普發現金不宜常態性來辦理你這個說法我今天告訴你你根本是在凸顯行政院\n這幾年撥補台電的不適宜啦局長你知道說這個過去啊我們編列多少次的預算補助台電嗎\n目前補助3000億總額是3000億 總共幾次 我告訴你三次所以我們知道台電到今年2月 它已經連續三年的大虧損累計的虧損高達4229億主要的原因就是依照童子賢先生講的\n就是因為錯誤的能源政策以及整個能源採購與經營的效益不彰而下個月台電又要再次調漲電價預計四月份我們的民生電價要漲11%\n產業的電價漲5%這將衝擊到1450萬戶產業民生的影響所有的電價全調這也是我們四年來第五次的漲價因此照這樣的延續的補助台電是否也可以認定是常態性的辦理一直補助台電這是常態性的辦理嗎\n其實不是常態性的辦理但是主要是因為他對於民生的電價他沒有漲所以這個部分呢就高達有2800億左右那這個部分我們主要是彌補他這個不叫常態性的辦理喔每年在家虧損就一直補助他用政府編列預算來補助他是但是你說這不是常態性的\n以國外的一個例子來看他調整的一個調整的電價調得更高所以這樣子的話民生更沒辦法承受所以這個部分我們在調節的部分你現在是說補助的問題現在一直補助他每年他有虧損我們政府就要編列預算來補助他像你今年你要編一千億的公務預算\n都是用政府編列預算來補助所以這樣的補助的方式未來只要台電有虧損我們就要補助這不是叫常態性嗎不是這個部分主要是他有配合行政院針對政策性的讓他民生電價不要漲價這個部分來做彌補所以這個部分才叫做才補貼這個部分這樣啦 這個組長我問你對於台電的一個撥補這個屬不屬於我們的常債\n這不是常債這不是常債嘛對啊所以不是常債那我們現在講我們超增稅收要來這個還稅於民你說台電可以用我們上一次也有用我們超增的稅收來補助他嗎所以你說這不是這個常態嗎那請問你那我們這一次把我們這個要求說把我們超增的稅收來還稅於民這個是常態嗎\n因為他如果變在余政法裡面他就會變成常態所以你要把超徵的稅收我們把要求還稅於民這是OK的啊\n這跟補助台電的道理是一樣的啊因為一般我們有剩餘是透過在政策上一個表達所以我們會先進到一個累積剩餘的一個累積然後再編列預算來做政策性的一個我看你的報告說今年扣除所有的債務還本我們大概還有1581億\n所以這1581億難道不可以來還稅漁民嗎這你完全扣除所有的債務了\n因為裡面我們如果說要把它放在115年我們也或者是追加我們也必須要等到7月審計部審定以後我們才可以來做這個我們了解但是你的政策方向要很明確告訴我們說這個是可以的而不是說這個不能常態這樣不能常態化這個就講的就讓我們覺得很奇怪實際上這是可行的嘛\n當初發放現金重點是經濟成長不好然後第二個是因為疫後疫後我們為了要刺激經濟讓它能夠有護輸所以我們才會做一個這樣因為卓院長在3月6號的院會備詢的時候他表示會往在野黨所提撲發現金的方向走\n但是今天主席總書的報告 包含您剛才的一個詢答 您是對此不表認同啊所以主席長 我們主席總書是反對卓院長 他所這個詢答的時候 他所表示的方向嗎我們是對一定在法條裡面 我們是不支持是這樣的一個意思\n是說你如果支持了以後這個部分定在法條以後將來就是變成他沒有彈性那沒有彈性的話執行的時候就會比較針對其他的一個政務的影響就會蠻大另外我想剩一點點時間問你您的報告說稅收時增超過預算數是屬估計誤差請問你是這個所謂的估計誤差是怎樣子的一個估計誤差\n這個部分可能是財政部要說明的部分這個部分我們不屬於妳的對 因為稅務的估計是屬於財政部的業務那主計總數啊財政部 所以我問妳財政部每年都這樣一直超增所謂的講說是估計誤差那過去主計總數都沒有發覺這樣離譜的誤差的稅收預估狀況嗎\n我們114年就把他這個修正了所以我們114年的一個稅入也大幅的增加這樣財政部這樣一直說超徵有沒有這個114年錄音估計會有這麼大的誤差 總共10年喔10年來都超徵啊這樣是不是破壞財政距離這樣會不會破壞財政距離啊\n這本身這個114年預算的稅入我們就已經有做修正了這個部分所以你這樣忽視財政部這樣離譜的預算編列能力與誤差主計總部是否有你你是否有失職我們今年已經有經營請他修正了所以今年的一個稅入又有大幅的一個修正謝謝好以上好謝謝好謝謝那個\n林思明委員對 執行好 下一位請陳立正委員執行 請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.042 --> 00:12.171\n好謝謝主席我們請這個陳主委長好陳主委長請\n\n00:18.294 --> 00:34.201\n委員長好主委長您在這個2月26號我們主席總署發布國內的經濟預測表示因為立法院刪減預算所以會這個削弱成長動能因而下修今年的經濟成長率是3.14%教育測數減少0.15%\n\n00:41.984 --> 00:58.858\n這樣真的是如此嗎局長來我讓你看那個我們這個PVT局長你可以看到幾乎所有的單位在院會被巡視都表示今年度的預算都有增加我們看國防部增加400多億\n\n00:59.659 --> 01:10.083\n教育部增加300億內政部增加400億交通部增加389億農業部增加83.2億衛福部增加306億國科會增加132億科爾會增加也增加了4億主席長你說這個增加這麼多啊\n\n01:21.486 --> 01:38.951\n總預算數的總額高達兩兆九千兩百四十八億也比一百一十三年度多了一千三百六十八億整個中央政府的總預算比去年度增加了百分之二點五六你說對不對\n\n01:41.044 --> 02:00.858\n這個數據對不對報告委員因為增加的項目是增加2,806億那主要是增加公共建設對健保的一個補助還有一些調薪這些等等但是三檢的部分是三檢集中在部分的機關還有業務費所以這樣才會有執行困難就是這個我剛才提的數據都對嘛\n\n02:05.541 --> 02:12.590\n所以說您對外界說是因為立法院刪減預算所以下修今年的經濟成長率\n\n02:15.682 --> 02:37.127\n這個部分我也跟委員在說明他主要有幾點的一個因素影響第一個他前面的基數就已經很高了他又提高因為本來我們預估是比較少再又提高所以他今年我們這增減會減少那第二個預算也有一點點有影響雖然影響沒有但是也有影響預算也有影響就是以前面基期高\n\n02:39.187 --> 02:40.368\n因為你這樣的說法跟央行總裁的講法完全背道而馳\n\n02:59.740 --> 03:14.924\n央行他在這個下修今年的成長率他的專業評估是因為川普這個上任對經濟充滿不確定政策充滿不確定性川普將科對等關稅恐將衝擊出口\n\n03:18.905 --> 03:48.035\n台積電擴大赴美設廠恐衝擊國內的投資所以才下修經濟成長率跟你講的什麼總預算什麼三減會影響所謂的這個經濟的成長率完全背道而馳啊你這個說法不是很外行嗎主委長你身為我們中華民國的這個整個預算的一個這個主計啊你講這樣的下修成長率跟預算算數有關\n\n03:49.917 --> 04:02.446\n是有關的但是我要跟委員報告因為川普的這個因素目前一直還不確定中所以這個因素一直還沒有放到評估裡面去這個才是最大的因素跟你講說什麼跟這個預算總預算的三減有關\n\n04:20.538 --> 04:45.960\n聽起來很外行你講這個話另外有關今天我們討論預算法的修正那主席總書在3月7號你對外指出說收支剩餘應優先用於償債或留工未來重大的正式支出應考量保留政策彈性普發現金不宜常態性來辦理你這個說法我今天告訴你你根本是在凸顯行政院\n\n04:47.021 --> 04:55.027\n這幾年撥補台電的不適宜啦局長你知道說這個過去啊我們編列多少次的預算補助台電嗎\n\n04:56.983 --> 05:18.937\n目前補助3000億總額是3000億總共幾次我告訴你三次所以我們知道台電到今年2月它已經連續三年的大虧損累計的虧損高達4229億主要的原因就是依照童子賢先生講的\n\n05:20.678 --> 05:30.806\n就是因為錯誤的能源政策以及整個能源採購與經營的效益不彰而下個月台電又要再次調漲電價預計四月份我們的民生電價要漲11%\n\n05:37.110 --> 06:00.780\n產業的電價漲5%這將衝擊到1450萬戶產業民生的影響所有的電價全調這也是我們四年來第五次的漲價因此照這樣的延續的補助台電是否也可以認定是常態性的辦理一直補助台電這是常態性的辦理嗎\n\n06:02.629 --> 06:23.601\n其實不是常態性的辦理但是主要是因為他對於民生的電價他沒有漲所以這個部分呢就高達有2800億左右那這個部分我們主要是彌補他這個不叫常態性的辦理喔每年在家虧損就一直補助他用政府編列預算來補助他是但是你說這不是常態性的\n\n06:24.161 --> 06:46.811\n以國外的一個例子來看他調整的一個調整的電價調得更高所以這樣子的話民生更沒辦法承受所以這個部分我們在調節的部分你現在是說補助的問題現在一直補助他每年他有虧損我們政府就要編列預算來補助他像你今年你要編一千億的公務預算\n\n06:47.651 --> 07:09.556\n都是用政府編列預算來補助所以這樣的補助的方式未來只要台電有虧損我們就要補助這不是叫常態性嗎不是這個部分主要是他有配合行政院針對政策性的讓他民生電價不要漲價這個部分來做彌補所以這個部分才叫做才補貼這個部分這樣啦這個組長我問你對於台電的一個撥補這個屬不屬於我們的常債\n\n07:16.827 --> 07:44.703\n這不是常債這不是常債嘛對啊所以不是常債那我們現在講我們超增稅收要來這個還稅於民你說台電可以用我們上一次也有用我們超增的稅收來補助他嗎所以你說這不是這個常態嗎那請問你那我們這一次把我們這個要求說把我們超增的稅收來還稅於民這個是常態嗎\n\n07:46.089 --> 07:55.876\n因為他如果變在余政法裡面他就會變成常態所以你要把超徵的稅收我們把要求還稅於民這是OK的啊\n\n07:56.844 --> 08:15.862\n這跟補助台電的道理是一樣的啊因為一般我們有剩餘是透過在政策上一個表達所以我們會先進到一個累積剩餘的一個累積然後再編列預算來做政策性的一個我看你的報告說今年扣除所有的債務還本我們大概還有1581億\n\n08:20.766 --> 08:27.297\n所以這1581億難道不可以來還稅漁民嗎這你完全扣除所有的債務了\n\n08:29.124 --> 08:54.497\n因為裡面我們如果說要把它放在115年我們也或者是追加我們也必須要等到7月審計部審定以後我們才可以來做這個我們了解但是你的政策方向要很明確告訴我們說這個是可以的而不是說這個不能常態這樣不能常態化這個就講的就讓我們覺得很奇怪實際上這是可行的嘛\n\n08:55.217 --> 09:15.744\n當初發放現金重點是經濟成長不好然後第二個是因為疫後疫後我們為了要刺激經濟讓它能夠有護輸所以我們才會做一個這樣因為卓院長在3月6號的院會備詢的時候他表示會往在野黨所提撲發現金的方向走\n\n09:16.644 --> 09:35.101\n但是今天主席總書的報告包含您剛才的一個詢答您是對此不表認同啊所以主席長我們主席總書是反對卓院長他所這個詢答的時候他所表示的方向嗎我們是對一定在法條裡面我們是不支持是這樣的一個意思\n\n09:35.581 --> 09:53.966\n是說你如果支持了以後這個部分定在法條以後將來就是變成他沒有彈性那沒有彈性的話執行的時候就會比較針對其他的一個政務的影響就會蠻大另外我想剩一點點時間問你您的報告說稅收時增超過預算數是屬估計誤差請問你是這個所謂的估計誤差是怎樣子的一個估計誤差\n\n10:04.429 --> 10:24.007\n這個部分可能是財政部要說明的部分這個部分我們不屬於妳的對因為稅務的估計是屬於財政部的業務那主計總數啊財政部所以我問妳財政部每年都這樣一直超增所謂的講說是估計誤差那過去主計總數都沒有發覺這樣離譜的誤差的稅收預估狀況嗎\n\n10:30.373 --> 10:43.561\n我們114年就把他這個修正了所以我們114年的一個稅入也大幅的增加這樣財政部這樣一直說超徵有沒有這個114年錄音估計會有這麼大的誤差總共10年喔10年來都超徵啊這樣是不是破壞財政距離這樣會不會破壞財政距離啊\n\n10:51.745 --> 11:14.760\n這本身這個114年預算的稅入我們就已經有做修正了這個部分所以你這樣忽視財政部這樣離譜的預算編列能力與誤差主計總部是否有你你是否有失職我們今年已經有經營請他修正了所以今年的一個稅入又有大幅的一個修正謝謝好以上好謝謝好謝謝那個\n\n11:21.141 --> 11:26.488\n林思明委員對執行好下一位請陳立正委員執行請\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.042,"end":12.171,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請這個陳主委長好 陳主委長請"},{"start":18.294,"end":34.201,"text":"委員長好 主委長您在這個2月26號我們主席總署發布國內的經濟預測表示因為立法院刪減預算所以會這個削弱成長動能因而下修今年的經濟成長率是3.14%教育測數減少0.15%"},{"start":41.984,"end":58.858,"text":"這樣真的是如此嗎 局長來我讓你看那個我們這個PVT局長你可以看到幾乎所有的單位在院會被巡視都表示今年度的預算都有增加我們看國防部增加400多億"},{"start":59.659,"end":70.083,"text":"教育部增加300億內政部增加400億交通部增加389億農業部增加83.2億衛福部增加306億國科會增加132億科爾會增加也增加了4億主席長你說這個增加這麼多啊"},{"start":81.486,"end":98.951,"text":"總預算數的總額高達兩兆九千兩百四十八億也比一百一十三年度多了一千三百六十八億整個中央政府的總預算比去年度增加了百分之二點五六你說對不對"},{"start":101.044,"end":120.858,"text":"這個數據對不對報告委員因為增加的項目是增加2,806億那主要是增加公共建設對健保的一個補助還有一些調薪這些等等但是三檢的部分是三檢集中在部分的機關還有業務費所以這樣才會有執行困難就是這個我剛才提的數據都對嘛"},{"start":125.541,"end":132.59,"text":"所以說您對外界說是因為立法院刪減預算所以下修今年的經濟成長率"},{"start":135.682,"end":157.127,"text":"這個部分我也跟委員在說明他主要有幾點的一個因素影響第一個他前面的基數就已經很高了他又提高因為本來我們預估是比較少再又提高所以他今年我們這增減會減少那第二個預算也有一點點有影響雖然影響沒有但是也有影響預算也有影響就是以前面基期高"},{"start":159.187,"end":160.368,"text":"因為你這樣的說法跟央行總裁的講法完全背道而馳"},{"start":179.74,"end":194.924,"text":"央行他在這個下修今年的成長率他的專業評估是因為川普這個上任對經濟充滿不確定政策充滿不確定性川普將科對等關稅恐將衝擊出口"},{"start":198.905,"end":228.035,"text":"台積電擴大赴美設廠恐衝擊國內的投資所以才下修經濟成長率跟你講的什麼總預算什麼三減會影響所謂的這個經濟的成長率完全背道而馳啊你這個說法不是很外行嗎主委長你身為我們中華民國的這個整個預算的一個這個主計啊你講這樣的下修成長率跟預算算數有關"},{"start":229.917,"end":242.446,"text":"是有關的但是我要跟委員報告因為川普的這個因素目前一直還不確定中所以這個因素一直還沒有放到評估裡面去這個才是最大的因素跟你講說什麼跟這個預算總預算的三減有關"},{"start":260.538,"end":285.96,"text":"聽起來很外行你講這個話另外有關今天我們討論預算法的修正那主席總書在3月7號你對外指出說收支剩餘應優先用於償債或留工未來重大的正式支出應考量保留政策彈性普發現金不宜常態性來辦理你這個說法我今天告訴你你根本是在凸顯行政院"},{"start":287.021,"end":295.027,"text":"這幾年撥補台電的不適宜啦局長你知道說這個過去啊我們編列多少次的預算補助台電嗎"},{"start":296.983,"end":318.937,"text":"目前補助3000億總額是3000億 總共幾次 我告訴你三次所以我們知道台電到今年2月 它已經連續三年的大虧損累計的虧損高達4229億主要的原因就是依照童子賢先生講的"},{"start":320.678,"end":330.806,"text":"就是因為錯誤的能源政策以及整個能源採購與經營的效益不彰而下個月台電又要再次調漲電價預計四月份我們的民生電價要漲11%"},{"start":337.11,"end":360.78,"text":"產業的電價漲5%這將衝擊到1450萬戶產業民生的影響所有的電價全調這也是我們四年來第五次的漲價因此照這樣的延續的補助台電是否也可以認定是常態性的辦理一直補助台電這是常態性的辦理嗎"},{"start":362.629,"end":383.601,"text":"其實不是常態性的辦理但是主要是因為他對於民生的電價他沒有漲所以這個部分呢就高達有2800億左右那這個部分我們主要是彌補他這個不叫常態性的辦理喔每年在家虧損就一直補助他用政府編列預算來補助他是但是你說這不是常態性的"},{"start":384.161,"end":406.811,"text":"以國外的一個例子來看他調整的一個調整的電價調得更高所以這樣子的話民生更沒辦法承受所以這個部分我們在調節的部分你現在是說補助的問題現在一直補助他每年他有虧損我們政府就要編列預算來補助他像你今年你要編一千億的公務預算"},{"start":407.651,"end":429.556,"text":"都是用政府編列預算來補助所以這樣的補助的方式未來只要台電有虧損我們就要補助這不是叫常態性嗎不是這個部分主要是他有配合行政院針對政策性的讓他民生電價不要漲價這個部分來做彌補所以這個部分才叫做才補貼這個部分這樣啦 這個組長我問你對於台電的一個撥補這個屬不屬於我們的常債"},{"start":436.827,"end":464.703,"text":"這不是常債這不是常債嘛對啊所以不是常債那我們現在講我們超增稅收要來這個還稅於民你說台電可以用我們上一次也有用我們超增的稅收來補助他嗎所以你說這不是這個常態嗎那請問你那我們這一次把我們這個要求說把我們超增的稅收來還稅於民這個是常態嗎"},{"start":466.089,"end":475.876,"text":"因為他如果變在余政法裡面他就會變成常態所以你要把超徵的稅收我們把要求還稅於民這是OK的啊"},{"start":476.844,"end":495.862,"text":"這跟補助台電的道理是一樣的啊因為一般我們有剩餘是透過在政策上一個表達所以我們會先進到一個累積剩餘的一個累積然後再編列預算來做政策性的一個我看你的報告說今年扣除所有的債務還本我們大概還有1581億"},{"start":500.766,"end":507.297,"text":"所以這1581億難道不可以來還稅漁民嗎這你完全扣除所有的債務了"},{"start":509.124,"end":534.497,"text":"因為裡面我們如果說要把它放在115年我們也或者是追加我們也必須要等到7月審計部審定以後我們才可以來做這個我們了解但是你的政策方向要很明確告訴我們說這個是可以的而不是說這個不能常態這樣不能常態化這個就講的就讓我們覺得很奇怪實際上這是可行的嘛"},{"start":535.217,"end":555.744,"text":"當初發放現金重點是經濟成長不好然後第二個是因為疫後疫後我們為了要刺激經濟讓它能夠有護輸所以我們才會做一個這樣因為卓院長在3月6號的院會備詢的時候他表示會往在野黨所提撲發現金的方向走"},{"start":556.644,"end":575.101,"text":"但是今天主席總書的報告 包含您剛才的一個詢答 您是對此不表認同啊所以主席長 我們主席總書是反對卓院長 他所這個詢答的時候 他所表示的方向嗎我們是對一定在法條裡面 我們是不支持是這樣的一個意思"},{"start":575.581,"end":593.966,"text":"是說你如果支持了以後這個部分定在法條以後將來就是變成他沒有彈性那沒有彈性的話執行的時候就會比較針對其他的一個政務的影響就會蠻大另外我想剩一點點時間問你您的報告說稅收時增超過預算數是屬估計誤差請問你是這個所謂的估計誤差是怎樣子的一個估計誤差"},{"start":604.429,"end":624.007,"text":"這個部分可能是財政部要說明的部分這個部分我們不屬於妳的對 因為稅務的估計是屬於財政部的業務那主計總數啊財政部 所以我問妳財政部每年都這樣一直超增所謂的講說是估計誤差那過去主計總數都沒有發覺這樣離譜的誤差的稅收預估狀況嗎"},{"start":630.373,"end":643.561,"text":"我們114年就把他這個修正了所以我們114年的一個稅入也大幅的增加這樣財政部這樣一直說超徵有沒有這個114年錄音估計會有這麼大的誤差 總共10年喔10年來都超徵啊這樣是不是破壞財政距離這樣會不會破壞財政距離啊"},{"start":651.745,"end":674.76,"text":"這本身這個114年預算的稅入我們就已經有做修正了這個部分所以你這樣忽視財政部這樣離譜的預算編列能力與誤差主計總部是否有你你是否有失職我們今年已經有經營請他修正了所以今年的一個稅入又有大幅的一個修正謝謝好以上好謝謝好謝謝那個"},{"start":681.141,"end":686.488,"text":"林思明委員對 執行好 下一位請陳立正委員執行 請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":719,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（11時9分）謝謝主席，我們請陳主計長。"],["主席：陳主計長請。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["林委員思銘：主計長好。主計長，2月26號主計總處發布國內的經濟預測，表示因為立法院刪減預算，所以會削弱成長動能，因而下修今年的經濟成長率至3.14%，較預測數減少0.15%。但真的是如此嗎？主計長，我讓你看我的PPT，你可以看到幾乎所有的單位在院會備詢時都表示，今年度的預算都有增加，國防部增加四百多億、教育部增加300億、內政部增加400億、交通部增加389億、農業部增加83.24億、衛福部增加306億、國科會增加132億、客委會也增加了4億。主計長，增加了這麼多，總預算數的總額高達2兆9,248億，比113年度多了1,368億，整個中央政府的總預算比去年度增加了2.56%，這個數據對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，是增加2,806億，增加的項目主要是增加公共建設、對健保的補助，還有一些調薪等等……"],["林委員思銘：所以我剛剛講的數據都對嘛！"],["陳主計長淑姿：但是刪減的部分是集中刪減在部分機關，還有業務費，這樣才會有執行困難。"],["林委員思銘：主計長，你回答我的問題，我剛才提的數據都對嘛？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["林委員思銘：所以您對外界說，是因為立法院刪減預算，所以下修今年的經濟成長率，主計長，這有關係嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分我也跟委員再說明，這主要有幾點因素影響：第一個，它前面的基數就已經很高了，因為本來我們的預估是比較少，又再提高，所以今年會減少；第二個，預算也有一點點影響，雖然影響沒有那麼多，但是也有影響……"],["林委員思銘：主計長，你現在講一點點……"],["陳主計長淑姿：預算也有影響，就是前面基期高……"],["林委員思銘：編列的預算比去年高那麼多會影響今年的……"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，我們本來預估的是預算成長，但由於被刪減，投入施作的量少了，經濟成長就會減少。"],["林委員思銘：主計長，我告訴你，因為你這樣的說法跟央行總裁的講法完全背道而馳！央行下修今年的成長率，它的專業評估是因為川普上任，對政策充滿不確定性，川普將課對等關稅，恐將衝擊出口；台積電擴大赴美設廠，恐衝擊國內的投資，所以才下修經濟成長率。跟你講的什麼總預算刪減會影響經濟的成長率完全背道而馳，你這個說法不是很外行嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：報告委員……"],["林委員思銘：主計長，你身為我們中華民國整個預算的主計，你講下修成長率跟刪除預算有關，我想這樣的講法很不專業啦！"],["陳主計長淑姿：是有關的，但是我要跟委員報告，因為川普的因素目前一直還不確定中，所以一直沒有放到評估裡面去。"],["林委員思銘：這個才是最大的因素嘛！跟你說的跟總預算的刪減有關……"],["陳主計長淑姿：主要是前年度的基數高。第二個，刪減總預算使我們整個投資減少也會有影響。"],["林委員思銘：好啦！這個問題我想我們就討論到這裡，我是覺得主計總處未來在對外發表意見的時候真的要很審慎，否則你講這個話聽起來很外行。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，謝謝。"],["林委員思銘：另外，有關今天我們討論預算法的修正，主計總處在3月7號對外指出，收支賸餘應優先用於償債或留供未來重大政事支出，應考量保留政策彈性，普發現金不宜常態性辦理。我今天告訴你，你這個說法根本是在凸顯行政院這幾年撥補台電的不適宜啦！主計長，你知道過去我們編列多少次的預算補助台電嗎？補助的金額是多少你知不知道？"],["陳主計長淑姿：目前補助3,000億。"],["林委員思銘：總額是3,000億，總共3次。台電到今年2月已經連續三年大虧損，累計虧損高達4,229億。依照童子賢先生講的，主要的原因就是因為錯誤的能源政策，以及整個能源採購與經營的效益不彰。而下個月台電又要再次調漲電價，預計4月份民生電價要漲11%、產業電價要漲5%，這將衝擊到1,450萬戶，產業、民生所有的電價全調，這也是四年來第五次的漲價。因此，照這樣連續的補助台電，是否也可以認定是常態性的辦理？一直補助台電，這是常態性的辦理嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：其實不是常態性的辦理，主要是因為民生的電價沒有漲，這個部分就高達兩千八百億左右，這個部分我們主要是彌補它……"],["林委員思銘：主計長，這個不叫常態性的辦理？每年只要虧損就一直補助它，用政府編列預算來補助它，你說這不是常態性辦理？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，但是以國外的例子來看，他們的電價調整得更高，這樣的話民生更沒辦法承受，所以我們在調節的部分……"],["林委員思銘：主計長，我不是跟你講調整電價，現在是在說補助的問題。現在一直補助它，每年它有虧損，政府就要編列預算來補助它，像今年你要編1,000億的公務預算，都是用政府編列預算來補助，這樣的補助的方式，未來只要台電有虧損我們就要補助，這不是叫常態性嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，主要是它有配合行政院，政策性的讓民生電價不要漲價，我們對這個部分來做彌補，所以才補貼這個部分。"],["林委員思銘：主計長，我問你，對於台電的撥補屬不屬於償債？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這不是償債。"],["林委員思銘：這不是償債嘛！我們現在講超徵稅收要還稅於民，我們上一次也有用超徵稅收來補助台電！你說這不是常態，那請問你，這一次我們要求把超徵的稅收還稅於民，這個是常態嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為它如果寫在預算法裡面，它就會變成常態。"],["林委員思銘：這也不是常態啊！所以我們要求把超徵的稅收還稅於民，這是OK的，這跟補助台電的道理是一樣的。"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為一般我們有賸餘是透過在政策上表達，所以我們會先進到累積賸餘的累積，然後再編列預算來做政策性的……"],["林委員思銘：我看你的報告說，今年扣除所有的債務還本大概還有1,581億，所以這1,581億難道不可以用來還稅於民嗎？你完全扣除所有的債務了啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們如果要把它放在115年或者是追加，我們也必須要等到7月審計部審定以後才可以來做，第二個……"],["林委員思銘：這個我們了解，但是你的政策方向要很明確告訴我們說這個是可以的，而不是說這個不能常態化，這樣講就讓我們覺得很奇怪，實際上這是可行的嘛！還稅於民嘛！"],["陳主計長淑姿：當初發放現金的重點是經濟成長不好，第二個是因為疫後，我們為了要刺激經濟，讓經濟復甦，所以我們才會這樣做。"],["林委員思銘：主計長，我時間也不多了，我再問你，因為卓院長在3月6號院會備詢的時候表示，會往在野黨所提普發現金的方向走。但是今天主計總處的報告，包含你剛才的詢答都提到，你對此不表認同。所以主計長，主計總處是反對卓院長詢答時所表示的方向嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們是對於訂在法條裡面不支持，是這樣的意思，因為你如果支持讓這個部分訂在法條以後，將來會變成沒有彈性；沒有彈性的話，執行的時候，對其他政務的影響就會滿大的。"],["林委員思銘：另外，剩一點點時間，我問你。你的報告說，稅收實徵數超過預算數係屬估計誤差。請問所謂的估計誤差是指怎樣的估計誤差？你稅收會年年超徵……"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分可能是財政部要說明的，我們……"],["林委員思銘：不屬於你的？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，因為稅收的估計是屬於財政部的業務，是不是請財政部來說明？"],["林委員思銘：所以我問你，財政部每年都這樣超徵，都是講估計誤差，過去主計總處都沒有發覺這樣離譜的誤差、這樣的稅收預估狀況嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們114年就把它修正了！所以我們114年的歲入也大幅的增加……"],["林委員思銘：財政部這樣一直稅收超徵，估計有這麼大的誤差，總共10年，10年來都超徵，這樣是不是破壞財政紀律？"],["陳主計長淑姿：沒有10年都超徵。"],["林委員思銘：這樣會不會破壞財政紀律？"],["陳主計長淑姿：本身114年預算的歲入，我們就已經有針對這個部分做修正了。"],["林委員思銘：所以你忽視財政部這樣離譜的預算編列能力與誤差，主計總處是否有失職？每年都這樣！"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們今年已經請他修正了，所以今年的歲入有大幅的修正，謝謝。"],["林委員思銘：以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林思銘委員質詢。","下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":418,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-4","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","王鴻薇","吳秉叡","柯建銘","郭國文","鍾佳濱","賴惠員","李彥秀","林思銘","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","王世堅","李坤城","顏寬恒","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","吳思瑤","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2025-03-24"],"gazette_id":"1143101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143101_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並\n備質詢；二、審查本院委員王鴻薇等26人、委員林德福等20人、委員賴士葆等20人分別擬具「預\n算法增訂第八十一條之一條文草案」等3案","agenda_id":"1143101_00006"}}}