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{\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"辛\", \"start\": 956.716, \"end\": 957.076, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"苦\", \"start\": 957.076, \"end\": 957.137, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 957.137, \"end\": 957.157, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,034 --> 00:00:05,342\n好謝謝主席啊劉部長有請有請部長好部長辛苦啦這剛剛大家在談這個\n\n2\n00:00:09,901 --> 00:00:36,272\n相關預算一些解凍其實我今天排這個案子不外乎也是為解凍做準備因為我們談租金補貼難免凍結當然就是監督的延伸希望在這個相關居住正義的題目上面我們的政府機關有很好的KPI而且有很好的執行成效那當然大家就不會為難預算那我想目前為止都算有一些進展那沒辦法嘛你總要等預算總統公告失效之後才能開始排解凍案嘛這我想部長也不會反對這是標準的作業流程\n\n3\n00:00:36,852 --> 00:01:04,706\n那本席作為召委我可以在這邊非常開放的跟部長說如果內政部只要準備好相關的報告我們趕快走程序這個你要求本席來做排案解凍我也非常樂意支持就希望內政部速度加快好不好這樣大家都不擔心可以嗎謝謝召委好謝謝剛剛很多委員都談這個這個租賃市場的這些相關的一些改革那不只部長我還拜託主席再幫我們請財政部一起因為我先從大方向開始談\n\n4\n00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:19,144\n剛剛蘇小慧委員有講紅蘿蔔跟棒子然後我們的政府機關不太願意直接面對問題的核心即使如果按照全部大家都叫病叫假都給他課稅的狀況來講房東當然會負擔比較多的稅負\n\n5\n00:01:22,105 --> 00:01:44,395\n那從政府機關的角度他也會擔心所謂有轉嫁的效果就是我收到因為我被課很重的稅啊所以我又變相的調漲了房租壓力其實很大所以其實談這件事情應該要好好思考一個方向也就是說現在的這個房東的租金所得其實是並計他的個人所得嘛通常可以當房東就好一點啊對不對所以他可能本來的所得就很高了\n\n6\n00:01:44,995 --> 00:02:07,319\n所以他這個房屋的租金所得加在他本來的所得上面他可能課12%20%甚至40%嘛對不對所以壓力很大對不對所以一直都有人在倡議就是說財政部這邊要思考一下把租金所得獨立出來變一個稅務這樣是不是讓我們的行政機關根據你可能要調節市場的狀況有的時候要鼓勵一下有的時候要收緊一下我是不是透過這個稅務跟稅率的調整才能夠比較好針對房東的課稅來做處理\n\n7\n00:02:11,900 --> 00:02:35,974\n部長劉部長你認同這樣的做法嗎如果我們有一個獨立相關的稅務來討論就是說這個房屋租金所得房屋租金所得稅然後它有一個獨立的稅率的話這樣會不會比較好調控就我們的目的事業主管來講我覺得這是一個很好的方向但是稅務還是不是內政部所主導我不知道我不能說是或是不是我要問你的意見嘛所以你覺得好方向來財政部有沒有針對這件事情做思考\n\n8\n00:02:36,955 --> 00:03:03,426\n跟委員報告我們現在的那個綜合所得稅他的稅率他可能所得很低他是0那他有可能所得很高他可能是40那我們如果在中間切一個稅率譬如說20這個稅率的話那高所得者他會降稅然後是用0或者是5的比較所得低的他就會稅負就會增加那以房東而言其實有很多房東他其實他如果只有出租一兩間兩三間的房屋他的那個稅負算起來因為我們有\n\n9\n00:03:06,527 --> 00:03:18,015\n很高的免稅扣除額這個房東都可以報那另外他的這個租金收入他還可以減43%的費用所以很多房東他如果出租兩間三間四間他其實他整個算起來他的稅負不會很高他可能適用的稅率只有5%12%那我們如果調高到稅率20%他是增加稅務的我沒有講說他一定20%我講說獨立一個稅務然後你看我們的政策方向來做調整\n\n10\n00:03:31,104 --> 00:03:55,813\n你在這個獨立的稅務裡面你一樣可以有分級的機制嘛你一樣可以有一些相關機制的設定嘛對不對那另外再跟委員報告依照我們實務上跟房東接觸的經驗很多房東他不願意他的租金透明他其實是不想繳稅啊所以不管稅務就在10%15%所以這第一個嘛你要有獨立稅務第二個這我不反對這我都可以公開講我不反對有所謂的大赦條款\n\n11\n00:03:56,593 --> 00:04:01,557\n因為豬市場黑市的狀況造成的政策負擔跟後果的成本其實遠遠高過你這個\n\n12\n00:04:03,811 --> 00:04:31,725\n幾萬幾萬的這樣一個稅率的所以你如果有現在有獨立的稅務然後搭配所謂的大赦條款是不是讓大家通通可以納管然後進入一個新的秩序本身今天提這個就是你真的要提紅紅波的時候跟棒子的時候其實就是把這個東西進入深水區我希望財政部好好來做思考好不好跟內政部充分來做協商把這個東西列為可能的項目要不然你在現行的情況之下萬一政策遇到瓶頸那還是一樣嘛對不對好不好這第一個大方向要跟大家做思考那財政部再等一下\n\n13\n00:04:35,115 --> 00:04:50,258\n這個前一陣子我們開了這個房租抵稅的記者會因為今年開始有新的這個制度上路嘛好就是說我們又把這個從變成列舉扣除額嘛好把它變成就是說也就是說給給房客有更多的一個減稅的機會但是請問財政部目前的評估有多少房客知道這個事\n\n14\n00:04:52,742 --> 00:05:14,735\n跟委員報告因為今年五月報稅是首次要適用這個新的扣除了那我們大概因為五月報稅我們大概會開始最近就會開始密集的宣導這個新措施這個大利多是對這是一個利多嘛那本期這兩個要求這前一陣子我們記者會我想財政部應該也看到了第一個就房租的資訊其實是有辦法代入你們現在都有報稅系統嘛\n\n15\n00:05:15,635 --> 00:05:31,821\n那其實你抱歉現在其實按照內政部講大概說七十幾萬戶其實都有掌握資料那是不是可以直接做借接系統借接這第一個財政部現在做得到這個事嗎目前系統直接借接沒有辦法因為房客他包括除了他另外有房客的條件那他\n\n16\n00:05:32,621 --> 00:05:53,108\n不是直接內政部那邊過來的資料就可以用如果他技術上有困難你研究一下怎麼樣來突破這沒有關係因為馬上上路嘛我現在要你變出一個新的制度恐怕也為難你這個本席理解但你要往這個方向去思考就是說萬一你的宣導不到位導致今年還是很多人不知道這個利多的時候你的這個系統界階其實是可以補上很大一塊的缺口嘛\n\n17\n00:05:53,468 --> 00:06:05,840\n所以請你去研究也許明年我們來做思考那第二個你好歹要有一個申訴或諮詢的專線吧那萬一遇到了不給報啊或者是說我不知道狀況我想多問一下請問財政部現在針對這樣子有沒有提供相關的一些服務\n\n18\n00:06:07,502 --> 00:06:31,793\n我們報稅諮詢本來就有相關的諮詢的服務是我的意思是說針對新制啦這個抵稅諮詢啦你要特別去講一下有新制諮詢的這個申訴專線啦那你會有提供資料啊這我們要跟我們的租屋朋友來做宣告就是我們會有很多的管道不管是諮詢或者是他的QA沒關係你把它整理出來好那個其實讓大家都去協助去轉發其實都對你的政策宣導是有幫助的好不好好\n\n19\n00:06:32,993 --> 00:06:47,728\n好那謝謝財政部來我們繼續來內政部部長換你了辛苦這我們今天在討論豬市場透明化對不對那前面本席曾經有提過就是說比如說包租代管先來做所謂的實價登錄那當然我們當初的政府機關這個講說\n\n20\n00:06:49,569 --> 00:07:10,096\n這個一步跨得太快我們希望給政府機關一點時間來分的步子來前進這個本席願意尊重也在密切觀察你們的表現所以你們現在推出了這個所謂的租金統計資訊也就是剛剛部長所報告的這個分行政區來做這個這個25分位50分位跟75分位的所謂的租金市場的這個揭露啦那\n\n21\n00:07:11,776 --> 00:07:32,782\n我必須講說有進步但是還有很大的進步空間因為你第一次發布的時候真的只有行政區跟最粗略的版本那照你今年年初發布的稍微細了一點至少開始有一整戶的獨立套房的跟分租的有開始往比較細緻的方向來前進這一點是不錯的但是核心的問題本期還是要透過這一次的質詢來強力的表達\n\n22\n00:07:34,242 --> 00:08:01,691\n第一個你這個租金的統計資訊是沒有獨立系統來部長你這份PDF檔就是在你的內政部不動產資訊平台的租金統計資訊的PDF檔它的點閱次數是多少你們有統計嗎這個點閱次數我們應該是會查得到但是我目前沒有手邊資料目前沒有對不對你覺得是很多還是很少我認為應該會有一些人會有一些人但是其實知道的人不多啦\n\n23\n00:08:02,311 --> 00:08:30,883\n這以本席的了解啦知道的人恐怕不多沒關係你把點閱數字調出來你會後提供給大家參考因為這是一個重要的指標我為什麼講說要有獨立系統因為那系統就像大家查實價登錄一樣嘛我想買房子的時候我去查實價登錄系統或是我想租房子的時候我也會跟民間的業者去查詢相關的行情要嘛你做出內政部的獨立系統好好推廣要嘛你要跟比如民間的比如說那種591租屋網等等你來做借街也不是壞事你這樣是不是整個的資訊的易達性會比較高好這是本席的第一個提醒\n\n24\n00:08:31,343 --> 00:08:53,972\n中委員報告一下那個有關於推廣的部分我們現在跟591已經有合作那他們會可以連結過來包含我們也通把那個告知所有你跟各個民間有在租房的平台來做串聯啦然後要把這一樣你要把成果附上來因為你現在我可以炒到成果大概只有長這樣第二所以要嘛你有獨立系統要嘛你跟民間解決這第一個建議第二要細分生活圈啦以本期的選區歸三來講\n\n25\n00:08:55,654 --> 00:09:13,014\n這雖然你龜山區是一區對不對跟我龜山區是四個生活圈啊渥渝區回榮跟新莊很靠近渥渝區平頂跟林口很靠近渥渝區跟桃園很靠近渥渝區跟蘆竹很靠近它其實還是有生活圈的差異啦所以我還是希望一步步來做沒有關係我今天講你願意有時間你只要讓我看到每半年有成果\n\n26\n00:09:13,675 --> 00:09:29,074\n這個我都會正面看待因為這本來就要逐步來處理但是你說從行政區要繼續往下走不要只是停在這裡要不然畢竟粗略啊因為一個龜山區我到底以哪一個生活圈為準呢每一個生活圈其實狀況是不一樣的所以我覺得要氣氛生活圈你們有這樣子的打算跟\n\n27\n00:09:31,836 --> 00:09:46,340\n狀況嗎跟委員報告其實跟租屋網借機大概就是一個起步啦因為你也知道說租屋網他才會用一些關鍵的地點我知道委員的意思大概就是說把一些關鍵地點作為一個區分這或許是長期我們可以\n\n28\n00:09:47,000 --> 00:10:04,174\n逐步來做但是我們當然也會過程會很小心因為因為有些部分因為不管是學區也好或一些關鍵的工作地點那當然常常會有出現租金異常波動的這個我們會在中間再小心的來控制這個部分好第三個是沒有北平的這個租金中位數\n\n29\n00:10:04,975 --> 00:10:28,898\n因為你這個有數字但是還是很粗略啦我現在就講嘛不管是類別也好地理位置也好或者是你相關的這個數字也好你都要更詳細嘛你越詳細你才會越接近透明嘛對不對來請回答跟委員報告那個部分委員建議美萍的那個部分的話我們現在也在研議當中那我們會串接我們的地級資料會知道它的面積有多少\n\n30\n00:10:29,399 --> 00:10:39,300\n那這個部分的話因為會有幾個限制就是可能分出的部分面積就比較難掌握所以我們會從整層跟整套的整層跟整套先做所以我想好\n\n31\n00:10:41,016 --> 00:11:06,889\n這樣子今天提了這三個要求對不對你是每半年更新資料嗎還是多長時間更新資料現在的話規劃是6月跟12月所以我下一次看到更新資料的時候是6月對不對我可以多看到哪些具體的資訊那個有關於美萍的那個租金單價現在已經在做一個處理那因為還要看資料匯進來的一個品質是怎麼樣那這個部分的話我們已經現在演繹當中了\n\n32\n00:11:07,589 --> 00:11:20,361\n好我希望六月可以看到好的結果啦好不好我們就你既然講說給你時間來分來往前走這個我願意給你時間但你要讓讓他讓最後他可以變成一個符合租客權益期待的這樣子的一個版本好這個蕭寶處麻煩一下\n\n33\n00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:45,865\n我也好這個我們每一年都在針對不管是租屋的基於透明化的政策等等其實都涉及這個相關法令的一些修正那麼相關法令的一些修正當然就跟你的契約等等會有一定的聯動跟關係嘛那租賃行為當然是消費市場的行為\n\n34\n00:11:46,565 --> 00:12:03,542\n前一陣子我們台灣市政府查了一下這明明法令一直更新可是市售大概有六成的租賃契約因為大家都用定型化契約嘛一拿一簽蓋章就成立了嘛可是你這六成以上都是舊版然後你就說當然我們就說輔導下架輔導下架有用嗎更新的狀況怎麼樣你有掌握嗎\n\n35\n00:12:05,298 --> 00:12:25,436\n這個更新的部分因為我們內政部長期以來都有定一個計畫從111年以來內政部都有辦一些查核的計畫針對這個市售的通路上面的租賃契約到底合不合規做一些討論然後做一些查核那其中有一年我們也是跟內政部一併去查核我們都會協助他們一起去查核那內政部查核的結果怎麼樣\n\n36\n00:12:26,429 --> 00:12:39,617\n向委員報告除了跟消保處合作之外我們也有延定計畫要求縣市政府這邊要來做一個查核從111年我們第一次的話不合格率的部分就是舊版的話大概是\n\n37\n00:12:41,678 --> 00:13:10,037\n比例契約的比例大概是三成不過112年跟113年的話就降到5%跟7%所以是有明顯的下降那去年的部分因為電價新制的部分有新的更新的一個契約的一個狀況所以舊版的比例又拉高不過我們這個現在還在持續在做這個方面的一個查核向委員報告這我其中拿一項來提醒你啦比如說要記載這個房屋基本資料等等然後它其實要提供圖說嘛\n\n38\n00:13:11,278 --> 00:13:27,132\n這個就本期的了解在市售的定型化契約上完全沒有預留相關的空間了所以我是覺得既然這個法規都有在滾動式來修正其實你這個定型化契約的範本跟這個你要與時均的更新啊你要讓業者可以馬上跟上啊這樣子才有辦法具體來做下降這是本期的另外一個提醒\n\n39\n00:13:28,133 --> 00:13:54,454\n來最後一個題目不好意思我今天耽誤了一點時間我還是要請部長我們討論一下這個社宅的分級租金制度這去年的十月喔大家這個民團有民團的意見這本席了解那部裡面有部裡面的為難這個我也知道中央有中央的想法地方有地方的想法它是一個很困難的題目但是在大家的追蹤之下這個在去年的十月基本上開始找到共識了大概會是用這樣子的方式來調整我就不多贅述來我請問一下這個\n\n40\n00:13:57,526 --> 00:14:24,891\n署長或者是部長就是這個版本了嗎目前大概就是26號還會用這個版本繼續討論什麼時候會有一個明確的定案應該這麼說這樣分期以後我們還是要了解各縣市政府如果他確定執行的話他可能還會有什麼樣的問題或困擾目前你掌握到的狀況有哪些問題或困難嗎目前來講因為各個縣市對這樣的一個尤其是這個中低收入戶的一個認定\n\n41\n00:14:25,951 --> 00:14:54,913\n那他們當然是期待是說衛福部的這個中低收入的這個數據是他們一般來講是最信任的啦也是大概目前來講比較所以他們回去他們上次回去就說大概回去會按照這個去了解看看看他們這樣是不是確定可以做好這樣的一個分級那第二個就是說因為大概非六都會以中央為準那大概我們也有請駐都也確認看看這樣的一個操作模式這樣是不是確定都可行\n\n42\n00:14:55,293 --> 00:15:24,093\n所以未來就會照這個原則上只要沒有太大的問題就會照這個方向確定定案了嗎大致上會照這個方向OK好那如果喔我多問兩個問題喔如果以採取分級租金現在比如說新北台北桃園啊這個他們也會配合這個版本然後大家做修正嗎還是說他們會再加碼或者是說提供更好的版本這個其實個性是多少有一點為難多少有一點為難對大家制度本來不一樣像桃園像桃園大概應該就很困難因為它現在已經面臨要調整也很辛苦的一個問題\n\n43\n00:15:24,733 --> 00:15:46,801\n所以他們原則上也會follow這個制度嗎希望啦但是不一定能夠做得到因為我們沒有一定強制他做因為各縣市狀況不一樣好這個我希望喔這個趕快溝通因為從完全沒有共識對不對本來是什麼身分別釋價打折跟分級租金收取制度嘛到現在大家開始聚焦那我就希望這個部裡面要多加油啦好不好\n\n44\n00:15:47,782 --> 00:15:57,157\n針對這樣的事情我希望3月26號的會議裡面可以聽到好消息會議的結果一定要讓我們知道因為我們都很關心這個相關政策的一個推動的進度可以嗎好好謝謝部長組長辛苦了謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2034\t5342\t好 謝謝主席啊 劉部長有請有請部長好 部長辛苦啦這剛剛大家在談這個\n9901\t36272\t相關預算一些解凍其實我今天排這個案子不外乎也是為解凍做準備因為我們談租金補貼難免凍結當然就是監督的延伸希望在這個相關居住正義的題目上面我們的政府機關有很好的KPI而且有很好的執行成效那當然大家就不會為難預算那我想目前為止都算有一些進展那沒辦法嘛你總要等預算總統公告失效之後才能開始排解凍案嘛這我想部長也不會反對這是標準的作業流程\n36852\t64706\t那本席作為召委我可以在這邊非常開放的跟部長說如果內政部只要準備好相關的報告我們趕快走程序這個你要求本席來做排案解凍我也非常樂意支持就希望內政部速度加快好不好這樣大家都不擔心可以嗎謝謝召委好謝謝剛剛很多委員都談這個這個租賃市場的這些相關的一些改革那不只部長我還拜託主席再幫我們請財政部一起因為我先從大方向開始談\n67280\t79144\t剛剛蘇小慧委員有講紅蘿蔔跟棒子然後我們的政府機關不太願意直接面對問題的核心即使如果按照全部大家都叫病叫假都給他課稅的狀況來講房東當然會負擔比較多的稅負\n82105\t104395\t那從政府機關的角度他也會擔心所謂有轉嫁的效果就是我收到因為我被課很重的稅啊所以我又變相的調漲了房租壓力其實很大所以其實談這件事情應該要好好思考一個方向也就是說現在的這個房東的租金所得其實是並計他的個人所得嘛通常可以當房東就好一點啊 對不對所以他可能本來的所得就很高了\n104995\t127319\t所以他這個房屋的租金所得加在他本來的所得上面他可能課12% 20%甚至40%嘛 對不對所以壓力很大 對不對所以一直都有人在倡議就是說財政部這邊要思考一下把租金所得獨立出來變一個稅務這樣是不是讓我們的行政機關根據你可能要調節市場的狀況有的時候要鼓勵一下有的時候要收緊一下我是不是透過這個稅務跟稅率的調整才能夠比較好針對房東的課稅來做處理\n131900\t155974\t部長 劉部長你認同這樣的做法嗎如果我們有一個獨立相關的稅務來討論就是說這個房屋租金所得房屋租金所得稅然後它有一個獨立的稅率的話這樣會不會比較好調控就我們的目的事業主管來講我覺得這是一個很好的方向但是稅務還是不是內政部所主導我不知道我不能說是或是不是我要問你的意見嘛所以你覺得好方向來財政部有沒有針對這件事情做思考\n156955\t183426\t跟委員報告我們現在的那個綜合所得稅他的稅率他可能所得很低他是0那他有可能所得很高他可能是40那我們如果在中間切一個稅率譬如說20這個稅率的話那高所得者他會降稅然後是用0或者是5的比較所得低的他就會稅負就會增加那以房東而言其實有很多房東他其實他如果只有出租一兩間兩三間的房屋他的那個稅負算起來因為我們有\n186527\t198015\t很高的免稅扣除額這個房東都可以報那另外他的這個租金收入他還可以減43%的費用所以很多房東他如果出租兩間三間四間他其實他整個算起來他的稅負不會很高他可能適用的稅率只有5% 12%那我們如果調高到稅率20%他是增加稅務的我沒有講說他一定20%我講說獨立一個稅務然後你看我們的政策方向來做調整\n211104\t235813\t你在這個獨立的稅務裡面你一樣可以有分級的機制嘛你一樣可以有一些相關機制的設定嘛對不對那另外再跟委員報告依照我們實務上跟房東接觸的經驗很多房東他不願意他的租金透明他其實是不想繳稅啊所以不管稅務就在10% 15%所以這第一個嘛你要有獨立稅務第二個這我不反對這我都可以公開講我不反對有所謂的大赦條款\n236593\t241557\t因為豬市場黑市的狀況造成的政策負擔跟後果的成本其實遠遠高過你這個\n243811\t271725\t幾萬幾萬的這樣一個稅率的所以你如果有現在有獨立的稅務然後搭配所謂的大赦條款是不是讓大家通通可以納管然後進入一個新的秩序本身今天提這個就是你真的要提紅紅波的時候跟棒子的時候其實就是把這個東西進入深水區我希望財政部好好來做思考好不好跟內政部充分來做協商把這個東西列為可能的項目要不然你在現行的情況之下萬一政策遇到瓶頸那還是一樣嘛對不對好不好這第一個大方向要跟大家做思考那財政部再等一下\n275115\t290258\t這個前一陣子我們開了這個房租抵稅的記者會因為今年開始有新的這個制度上路嘛好就是說我們又把這個從變成列舉扣除額嘛好把它變成就是說也就是說給給房客有更多的一個減稅的機會但是請問財政部目前的評估有多少房客知道這個事\n292742\t314735\t跟委員報告因為今年五月報稅是首次要適用這個新的扣除了那我們大概因為五月報稅我們大概會開始最近就會開始密集的宣導這個新措施這個大利多是對這是一個利多嘛那本期這兩個要求這前一陣子我們記者會我想財政部應該也看到了第一個就房租的資訊其實是有辦法代入你們現在都有報稅系統嘛\n315635\t331821\t那其實你抱歉現在其實按照內政部講大概說七十幾萬戶其實都有掌握資料那是不是可以直接做借接系統借接這第一個財政部現在做得到這個事嗎目前系統直接借接沒有辦法因為房客他包括除了他另外有房客的條件那他\n332621\t353108\t不是直接內政部那邊過來的資料就可以用如果他技術上有困難你研究一下怎麼樣來突破這沒有關係因為馬上上路嘛我現在要你變出一個新的制度恐怕也為難你這個本席理解但你要往這個方向去思考就是說萬一你的宣導不到位導致今年還是很多人不知道這個利多的時候你的這個系統界階其實是可以補上很大一塊的缺口嘛\n353468\t365840\t所以請你去研究也許明年我們來做思考那第二個你好歹要有一個申訴或諮詢的專線吧那萬一遇到了不給報啊或者是說我不知道狀況我想多問一下請問財政部現在針對這樣子有沒有提供相關的一些服務\n367502\t391793\t我們報稅諮詢本來就有相關的諮詢的服務是我的意思是說針對新制啦這個抵稅諮詢啦你要特別去講一下有新制諮詢的這個申訴專線啦那你會有提供資料啊這我們要跟我們的租屋朋友來做宣告就是我們會有很多的管道不管是諮詢或者是他的QA沒關係你把它整理出來好那個其實讓大家都去協助去轉發其實都對你的政策宣導是有幫助的好不好好\n392993\t407728\t好那謝謝財政部來我們繼續來內政部部長換你了辛苦這我們今天在討論豬市場透明化對不對那前面本席曾經有提過就是說比如說包租代管先來做所謂的實價登錄那當然我們當初的政府機關這個講說\n409569\t430096\t這個一步跨得太快我們希望給政府機關一點時間來分的步子來前進這個本席願意尊重也在密切觀察你們的表現所以你們現在推出了這個所謂的租金統計資訊也就是剛剛部長所報告的這個分行政區來做這個這個25分位50分位跟75分位的所謂的租金市場的這個揭露啦那\n431776\t452782\t我必須講說有進步但是還有很大的進步空間因為你第一次發布的時候真的只有行政區跟最粗略的版本那照你今年年初發布的稍微細了一點至少開始有一整戶的獨立套房的跟分租的有開始往比較細緻的方向來前進這一點是不錯的但是核心的問題本期還是要透過這一次的質詢來強力的表達\n454242\t481691\t第一個你這個租金的統計資訊是沒有獨立系統來 部長你這份PDF檔就是在你的內政部不動產資訊平台的租金統計資訊的PDF檔它的點閱次數是多少你們有統計嗎這個點閱次數我們應該是會查得到但是我目前沒有手邊資料目前沒有對不對你覺得是很多還是很少我認為應該會有一些人會有一些人但是其實知道的人不多啦\n482311\t510883\t這以本席的了解啦知道的人恐怕不多沒關係你把點閱數字調出來你會後提供給大家參考因為這是一個重要的指標我為什麼講說要有獨立系統因為那系統就像大家查實價登錄一樣嘛我想買房子的時候我去查實價登錄系統或是我想租房子的時候我也會跟民間的業者去查詢相關的行情要嘛你做出內政部的獨立系統好好推廣要嘛你要跟比如民間的比如說那種591租屋網等等你來做借街也不是壞事你這樣是不是整個的資訊的易達性會比較高好這是本席的第一個提醒\n511343\t533972\t中委員報告一下那個有關於推廣的部分我們現在跟591已經有合作那他們會可以連結過來包含我們也通把那個告知所有你跟各個民間有在租房的平台來做串聯啦然後要把這一樣你要把成果附上來因為你現在我可以炒到成果大概只有長這樣第二所以要嘛你有獨立系統要嘛你跟民間解決這第一個建議第二要細分生活圈啦以本期的選區歸三來講\n535654\t553014\t這雖然你龜山區是一區對不對跟我龜山區是四個生活圈啊渥渝區回榮跟新莊很靠近渥渝區平頂跟林口很靠近渥渝區跟桃園很靠近渥渝區跟蘆竹很靠近它其實還是有生活圈的差異啦所以我還是希望一步步來做沒有關係我今天講你願意有時間你只要讓我看到每半年有成果\n553675\t569074\t這個我都會正面看待因為這本來就要逐步來處理但是你說從行政區要繼續往下走不要只是停在這裡要不然畢竟粗略啊因為一個龜山區我到底以哪一個生活圈為準呢每一個生活圈其實狀況是不一樣的所以我覺得要氣氛生活圈你們有這樣子的打算跟\n571836\t586340\t狀況嗎跟委員報告其實跟租屋網借機大概就是一個起步啦因為你也知道說租屋網他才會用一些關鍵的地點我知道委員的意思大概就是說把一些關鍵地點作為一個區分這或許是長期我們可以\n587000\t604174\t逐步來做但是我們當然也會過程會很小心因為因為有些部分因為不管是學區也好或一些關鍵的工作地點那當然常常會有出現租金異常波動的這個我們會在中間再小心的來控制這個部分好第三個是沒有北平的這個租金中位數\n604975\t628898\t因為你這個有數字但是還是很粗略啦我現在就講嘛 不管是類別也好 地理位置也好或者是你相關的這個數字也好 你都要更詳細嘛你越詳細你才會越接近透明嘛 對不對來 請回答跟委員報告 那個部分委員建議美萍的那個部分的話我們現在也在研議當中那我們會串接我們的地級資料會知道它的面積有多少\n629399\t639300\t那這個部分的話因為會有幾個限制就是可能分出的部分面積就比較難掌握所以我們會從整層跟整套的整層跟整套先做所以我想好\n641016\t666889\t這樣子今天提了這三個要求對不對你是每半年更新資料嗎還是多長時間更新資料現在的話規劃是6月跟12月所以我下一次看到更新資料的時候是6月對不對我可以多看到哪些具體的資訊那個有關於美萍的那個租金單價現在已經在做一個處理那因為還要看資料匯進來的一個品質是怎麼樣那這個部分的話我們已經現在演繹當中了\n667589\t680361\t好我希望六月可以看到好的結果啦好不好我們就你既然講說給你時間來分來往前走這個我願意給你時間但你要讓讓他讓最後他可以變成一個符合租客權益期待的這樣子的一個版本好這個蕭寶處麻煩一下\n690680\t705865\t我也好這個我們每一年都在針對不管是租屋的基於透明化的政策等等其實都涉及這個相關法令的一些修正那麼相關法令的一些修正當然就跟你的契約等等會有一定的聯動跟關係嘛那租賃行為當然是消費市場的行為\n706565\t723542\t前一陣子我們台灣市政府查了一下這明明法令一直更新可是市售大概有六成的租賃契約因為大家都用定型化契約嘛一拿一簽蓋章就成立了嘛可是你這六成以上都是舊版然後你就說當然我們就說輔導下架輔導下架有用嗎更新的狀況怎麼樣你有掌握嗎\n725298\t745436\t這個更新的部分因為我們內政部長期以來都有定一個計畫從111年以來內政部都有辦一些查核的計畫針對這個市售的通路上面的租賃契約到底合不合規做一些討論然後做一些查核那其中有一年我們也是跟內政部一併去查核我們都會協助他們一起去查核那內政部查核的結果怎麼樣\n746429\t759617\t向委員報告除了跟消保處合作之外我們也有延定計畫要求縣市政府這邊要來做一個查核從111年我們第一次的話不合格率的部分就是舊版的話大概是\n761678\t790037\t比例 契約的比例大概是三成不過112年跟113年的話就降到5%跟7%所以是有明顯的下降那去年的部分因為電價新制的部分有新的更新的一個契約的一個狀況所以舊版的比例又拉高不過我們這個現在還在持續在做這個方面的一個查核向委員報告這我其中拿一項來提醒你啦比如說要記載這個房屋基本資料等等然後它其實要提供圖說嘛\n791278\t807132\t這個就本期的了解在市售的定型化契約上完全沒有預留相關的空間了所以我是覺得既然這個法規都有在滾動式來修正其實你這個定型化契約的範本跟這個你要與時均的更新啊你要讓業者可以馬上跟上啊這樣子才有辦法具體來做下降這是本期的另外一個提醒\n808133\t834454\t來最後一個題目不好意思我今天耽誤了一點時間我還是要請部長我們討論一下這個社宅的分級租金制度這去年的十月喔大家這個民團有民團的意見這本席了解那部裡面有部裡面的為難這個我也知道中央有中央的想法地方有地方的想法它是一個很困難的題目但是在大家的追蹤之下這個在去年的十月基本上開始找到共識了大概會是用這樣子的方式來調整我就不多贅述來我請問一下這個\n837526\t864891\t署長或者是部長就是這個版本了嗎目前大概就是26號還會用這個版本繼續討論什麼時候會有一個明確的定案應該這麼說這樣分期以後我們還是要了解各縣市政府如果他確定執行的話他可能還會有什麼樣的問題或困擾目前你掌握到的狀況有哪些問題或困難嗎目前來講因為各個縣市對這樣的一個尤其是這個中低收入戶的一個認定\n865951\t894913\t那他們當然是期待是說衛福部的這個中低收入的這個數據是他們一般來講是最信任的啦也是大概目前來講比較所以他們回去他們上次回去就說大概回去會按照這個去了解看看看他們這樣是不是確定可以做好這樣的一個分級那第二個就是說因為大概非六都會以中央為準那大概我們也有請駐都也確認看看這樣的一個操作模式這樣是不是確定都可行\n895293\t924093\t所以未來就會照這個原則上只要沒有太大的問題就會照這個方向確定定案了嗎大致上會照這個方向OK好那如果喔我多問兩個問題喔如果以採取分級租金現在比如說新北台北桃園啊這個他們也會配合這個版本然後大家做修正嗎還是說他們會再加碼或者是說提供更好的版本這個其實個性是多少有一點為難多少有一點為難對大家制度本來不一樣像桃園像桃園大概應該就很困難因為它現在已經面臨要調整也很辛苦的一個問題\n924733\t946801\t所以他們原則上也會follow這個制度嗎希望啦但是不一定能夠做得到因為我們沒有一定強制他做因為各縣市狀況不一樣好這個我希望喔這個趕快溝通因為從完全沒有共識對不對本來是什麼身分別釋價打折跟分級租金收取制度嘛到現在大家開始聚焦那我就希望這個部裡面要多加油啦好不好\n947782\t957157\t針對這樣的事情我希望3月26號的會議裡面可以聽到好消息會議的結果一定要讓我們知道因為我們都很關心這個相關政策的一個推動的進度可以嗎好好謝謝部長組長辛苦了謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席啊 劉部長有請有請部長好 部長辛苦啦這剛剛大家在談這個\n相關預算一些解凍其實我今天排這個案子不外乎也是為解凍做準備因為我們談租金補貼難免凍結當然就是監督的延伸希望在這個相關居住正義的題目上面我們的政府機關有很好的KPI而且有很好的執行成效那當然大家就不會為難預算那我想目前為止都算有一些進展那沒辦法嘛你總要等預算總統公告失效之後才能開始排解凍案嘛這我想部長也不會反對這是標準的作業流程\n那本席作為召委我可以在這邊非常開放的跟部長說如果內政部只要準備好相關的報告我們趕快走程序這個你要求本席來做排案解凍我也非常樂意支持就希望內政部速度加快好不好這樣大家都不擔心可以嗎謝謝召委好謝謝剛剛很多委員都談這個這個租賃市場的這些相關的一些改革那不只部長我還拜託主席再幫我們請財政部一起因為我先從大方向開始談\n剛剛蘇小慧委員有講紅蘿蔔跟棒子然後我們的政府機關不太願意直接面對問題的核心即使如果按照全部大家都叫病叫假都給他課稅的狀況來講房東當然會負擔比較多的稅負\n那從政府機關的角度他也會擔心所謂有轉嫁的效果就是我收到因為我被課很重的稅啊所以我又變相的調漲了房租壓力其實很大所以其實談這件事情應該要好好思考一個方向也就是說現在的這個房東的租金所得其實是並計他的個人所得嘛通常可以當房東就好一點啊 對不對所以他可能本來的所得就很高了\n所以他這個房屋的租金所得加在他本來的所得上面他可能課12% 20%甚至40%嘛 對不對所以壓力很大 對不對所以一直都有人在倡議就是說財政部這邊要思考一下把租金所得獨立出來變一個稅務這樣是不是讓我們的行政機關根據你可能要調節市場的狀況有的時候要鼓勵一下有的時候要收緊一下我是不是透過這個稅務跟稅率的調整才能夠比較好針對房東的課稅來做處理\n部長 劉部長你認同這樣的做法嗎如果我們有一個獨立相關的稅務來討論就是說這個房屋租金所得房屋租金所得稅然後它有一個獨立的稅率的話這樣會不會比較好調控就我們的目的事業主管來講我覺得這是一個很好的方向但是稅務還是不是內政部所主導我不知道我不能說是或是不是我要問你的意見嘛所以你覺得好方向來財政部有沒有針對這件事情做思考\n跟委員報告我們現在的那個綜合所得稅他的稅率他可能所得很低他是0那他有可能所得很高他可能是40那我們如果在中間切一個稅率譬如說20這個稅率的話那高所得者他會降稅然後是用0或者是5的比較所得低的他就會稅負就會增加那以房東而言其實有很多房東他其實他如果只有出租一兩間兩三間的房屋他的那個稅負算起來因為我們有\n很高的免稅扣除額這個房東都可以報那另外他的這個租金收入他還可以減43%的費用所以很多房東他如果出租兩間三間四間他其實他整個算起來他的稅負不會很高他可能適用的稅率只有5% 12%那我們如果調高到稅率20%他是增加稅務的我沒有講說他一定20%我講說獨立一個稅務然後你看我們的政策方向來做調整\n你在這個獨立的稅務裡面你一樣可以有分級的機制嘛你一樣可以有一些相關機制的設定嘛對不對那另外再跟委員報告依照我們實務上跟房東接觸的經驗很多房東他不願意他的租金透明他其實是不想繳稅啊所以不管稅務就在10% 15%所以這第一個嘛你要有獨立稅務第二個這我不反對這我都可以公開講我不反對有所謂的大赦條款\n因為豬市場黑市的狀況造成的政策負擔跟後果的成本其實遠遠高過你這個\n幾萬幾萬的這樣一個稅率的所以你如果有現在有獨立的稅務然後搭配所謂的大赦條款是不是讓大家通通可以納管然後進入一個新的秩序本身今天提這個就是你真的要提紅紅波的時候跟棒子的時候其實就是把這個東西進入深水區我希望財政部好好來做思考好不好跟內政部充分來做協商把這個東西列為可能的項目要不然你在現行的情況之下萬一政策遇到瓶頸那還是一樣嘛對不對好不好這第一個大方向要跟大家做思考那財政部再等一下\n這個前一陣子我們開了這個房租抵稅的記者會因為今年開始有新的這個制度上路嘛好就是說我們又把這個從變成列舉扣除額嘛好把它變成就是說也就是說給給房客有更多的一個減稅的機會但是請問財政部目前的評估有多少房客知道這個事\n跟委員報告因為今年五月報稅是首次要適用這個新的扣除了那我們大概因為五月報稅我們大概會開始最近就會開始密集的宣導這個新措施這個大利多是對這是一個利多嘛那本期這兩個要求這前一陣子我們記者會我想財政部應該也看到了第一個就房租的資訊其實是有辦法代入你們現在都有報稅系統嘛\n那其實你抱歉現在其實按照內政部講大概說七十幾萬戶其實都有掌握資料那是不是可以直接做借接系統借接這第一個財政部現在做得到這個事嗎目前系統直接借接沒有辦法因為房客他包括除了他另外有房客的條件那他\n不是直接內政部那邊過來的資料就可以用如果他技術上有困難你研究一下怎麼樣來突破這沒有關係因為馬上上路嘛我現在要你變出一個新的制度恐怕也為難你這個本席理解但你要往這個方向去思考就是說萬一你的宣導不到位導致今年還是很多人不知道這個利多的時候你的這個系統界階其實是可以補上很大一塊的缺口嘛\n所以請你去研究也許明年我們來做思考那第二個你好歹要有一個申訴或諮詢的專線吧那萬一遇到了不給報啊或者是說我不知道狀況我想多問一下請問財政部現在針對這樣子有沒有提供相關的一些服務\n我們報稅諮詢本來就有相關的諮詢的服務是我的意思是說針對新制啦這個抵稅諮詢啦你要特別去講一下有新制諮詢的這個申訴專線啦那你會有提供資料啊這我們要跟我們的租屋朋友來做宣告就是我們會有很多的管道不管是諮詢或者是他的QA沒關係你把它整理出來好那個其實讓大家都去協助去轉發其實都對你的政策宣導是有幫助的好不好好\n好那謝謝財政部來我們繼續來內政部部長換你了辛苦這我們今天在討論豬市場透明化對不對那前面本席曾經有提過就是說比如說包租代管先來做所謂的實價登錄那當然我們當初的政府機關這個講說\n這個一步跨得太快我們希望給政府機關一點時間來分的步子來前進這個本席願意尊重也在密切觀察你們的表現所以你們現在推出了這個所謂的租金統計資訊也就是剛剛部長所報告的這個分行政區來做這個這個25分位50分位跟75分位的所謂的租金市場的這個揭露啦那\n我必須講說有進步但是還有很大的進步空間因為你第一次發布的時候真的只有行政區跟最粗略的版本那照你今年年初發布的稍微細了一點至少開始有一整戶的獨立套房的跟分租的有開始往比較細緻的方向來前進這一點是不錯的但是核心的問題本期還是要透過這一次的質詢來強力的表達\n第一個你這個租金的統計資訊是沒有獨立系統來 部長你這份PDF檔就是在你的內政部不動產資訊平台的租金統計資訊的PDF檔它的點閱次數是多少你們有統計嗎這個點閱次數我們應該是會查得到但是我目前沒有手邊資料目前沒有對不對你覺得是很多還是很少我認為應該會有一些人會有一些人但是其實知道的人不多啦\n這以本席的了解啦知道的人恐怕不多沒關係你把點閱數字調出來你會後提供給大家參考因為這是一個重要的指標我為什麼講說要有獨立系統因為那系統就像大家查實價登錄一樣嘛我想買房子的時候我去查實價登錄系統或是我想租房子的時候我也會跟民間的業者去查詢相關的行情要嘛你做出內政部的獨立系統好好推廣要嘛你要跟比如民間的比如說那種591租屋網等等你來做借街也不是壞事你這樣是不是整個的資訊的易達性會比較高好這是本席的第一個提醒\n中委員報告一下那個有關於推廣的部分我們現在跟591已經有合作那他們會可以連結過來包含我們也通把那個告知所有你跟各個民間有在租房的平台來做串聯啦然後要把這一樣你要把成果附上來因為你現在我可以炒到成果大概只有長這樣第二所以要嘛你有獨立系統要嘛你跟民間解決這第一個建議第二要細分生活圈啦以本期的選區歸三來講\n這雖然你龜山區是一區對不對跟我龜山區是四個生活圈啊渥渝區回榮跟新莊很靠近渥渝區平頂跟林口很靠近渥渝區跟桃園很靠近渥渝區跟蘆竹很靠近它其實還是有生活圈的差異啦所以我還是希望一步步來做沒有關係我今天講你願意有時間你只要讓我看到每半年有成果\n這個我都會正面看待因為這本來就要逐步來處理但是你說從行政區要繼續往下走不要只是停在這裡要不然畢竟粗略啊因為一個龜山區我到底以哪一個生活圈為準呢每一個生活圈其實狀況是不一樣的所以我覺得要氣氛生活圈你們有這樣子的打算跟\n狀況嗎跟委員報告其實跟租屋網借機大概就是一個起步啦因為你也知道說租屋網他才會用一些關鍵的地點我知道委員的意思大概就是說把一些關鍵地點作為一個區分這或許是長期我們可以\n逐步來做但是我們當然也會過程會很小心因為因為有些部分因為不管是學區也好或一些關鍵的工作地點那當然常常會有出現租金異常波動的這個我們會在中間再小心的來控制這個部分好第三個是沒有北平的這個租金中位數\n因為你這個有數字但是還是很粗略啦我現在就講嘛 不管是類別也好 地理位置也好或者是你相關的這個數字也好 你都要更詳細嘛你越詳細你才會越接近透明嘛 對不對來 請回答跟委員報告 那個部分委員建議美萍的那個部分的話我們現在也在研議當中那我們會串接我們的地級資料會知道它的面積有多少\n那這個部分的話因為會有幾個限制就是可能分出的部分面積就比較難掌握所以我們會從整層跟整套的整層跟整套先做所以我想好\n這樣子今天提了這三個要求對不對你是每半年更新資料嗎還是多長時間更新資料現在的話規劃是6月跟12月所以我下一次看到更新資料的時候是6月對不對我可以多看到哪些具體的資訊那個有關於美萍的那個租金單價現在已經在做一個處理那因為還要看資料匯進來的一個品質是怎麼樣那這個部分的話我們已經現在演繹當中了\n好我希望六月可以看到好的結果啦好不好我們就你既然講說給你時間來分來往前走這個我願意給你時間但你要讓讓他讓最後他可以變成一個符合租客權益期待的這樣子的一個版本好這個蕭寶處麻煩一下\n我也好這個我們每一年都在針對不管是租屋的基於透明化的政策等等其實都涉及這個相關法令的一些修正那麼相關法令的一些修正當然就跟你的契約等等會有一定的聯動跟關係嘛那租賃行為當然是消費市場的行為\n前一陣子我們台灣市政府查了一下這明明法令一直更新可是市售大概有六成的租賃契約因為大家都用定型化契約嘛一拿一簽蓋章就成立了嘛可是你這六成以上都是舊版然後你就說當然我們就說輔導下架輔導下架有用嗎更新的狀況怎麼樣你有掌握嗎\n這個更新的部分因為我們內政部長期以來都有定一個計畫從111年以來內政部都有辦一些查核的計畫針對這個市售的通路上面的租賃契約到底合不合規做一些討論然後做一些查核那其中有一年我們也是跟內政部一併去查核我們都會協助他們一起去查核那內政部查核的結果怎麼樣\n向委員報告除了跟消保處合作之外我們也有延定計畫要求縣市政府這邊要來做一個查核從111年我們第一次的話不合格率的部分就是舊版的話大概是\n比例 契約的比例大概是三成不過112年跟113年的話就降到5%跟7%所以是有明顯的下降那去年的部分因為電價新制的部分有新的更新的一個契約的一個狀況所以舊版的比例又拉高不過我們這個現在還在持續在做這個方面的一個查核向委員報告這我其中拿一項來提醒你啦比如說要記載這個房屋基本資料等等然後它其實要提供圖說嘛\n這個就本期的了解在市售的定型化契約上完全沒有預留相關的空間了所以我是覺得既然這個法規都有在滾動式來修正其實你這個定型化契約的範本跟這個你要與時均的更新啊你要讓業者可以馬上跟上啊這樣子才有辦法具體來做下降這是本期的另外一個提醒\n來最後一個題目不好意思我今天耽誤了一點時間我還是要請部長我們討論一下這個社宅的分級租金制度這去年的十月喔大家這個民團有民團的意見這本席了解那部裡面有部裡面的為難這個我也知道中央有中央的想法地方有地方的想法它是一個很困難的題目但是在大家的追蹤之下這個在去年的十月基本上開始找到共識了大概會是用這樣子的方式來調整我就不多贅述來我請問一下這個\n署長或者是部長就是這個版本了嗎目前大概就是26號還會用這個版本繼續討論什麼時候會有一個明確的定案應該這麼說這樣分期以後我們還是要了解各縣市政府如果他確定執行的話他可能還會有什麼樣的問題或困擾目前你掌握到的狀況有哪些問題或困難嗎目前來講因為各個縣市對這樣的一個尤其是這個中低收入戶的一個認定\n那他們當然是期待是說衛福部的這個中低收入的這個數據是他們一般來講是最信任的啦也是大概目前來講比較所以他們回去他們上次回去就說大概回去會按照這個去了解看看看他們這樣是不是確定可以做好這樣的一個分級那第二個就是說因為大概非六都會以中央為準那大概我們也有請駐都也確認看看這樣的一個操作模式這樣是不是確定都可行\n所以未來就會照這個原則上只要沒有太大的問題就會照這個方向確定定案了嗎大致上會照這個方向OK好那如果喔我多問兩個問題喔如果以採取分級租金現在比如說新北台北桃園啊這個他們也會配合這個版本然後大家做修正嗎還是說他們會再加碼或者是說提供更好的版本這個其實個性是多少有一點為難多少有一點為難對大家制度本來不一樣像桃園像桃園大概應該就很困難因為它現在已經面臨要調整也很辛苦的一個問題\n所以他們原則上也會follow這個制度嗎希望啦但是不一定能夠做得到因為我們沒有一定強制他做因為各縣市狀況不一樣好這個我希望喔這個趕快溝通因為從完全沒有共識對不對本來是什麼身分別釋價打折跟分級租金收取制度嘛到現在大家開始聚焦那我就希望這個部裡面要多加油啦好不好\n針對這樣的事情我希望3月26號的會議裡面可以聽到好消息會議的結果一定要讓我們知道因為我們都很關心這個相關政策的一個推動的進度可以嗎好好謝謝部長組長辛苦了謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.034 --> 00:05.342\n好謝謝主席啊劉部長有請有請部長好部長辛苦啦這剛剛大家在談這個\n\n00:09.901 --> 00:36.272\n相關預算一些解凍其實我今天排這個案子不外乎也是為解凍做準備因為我們談租金補貼難免凍結當然就是監督的延伸希望在這個相關居住正義的題目上面我們的政府機關有很好的KPI而且有很好的執行成效那當然大家就不會為難預算那我想目前為止都算有一些進展那沒辦法嘛你總要等預算總統公告失效之後才能開始排解凍案嘛這我想部長也不會反對這是標準的作業流程\n\n00:36.852 --> 01:04.706\n那本席作為召委我可以在這邊非常開放的跟部長說如果內政部只要準備好相關的報告我們趕快走程序這個你要求本席來做排案解凍我也非常樂意支持就希望內政部速度加快好不好這樣大家都不擔心可以嗎謝謝召委好謝謝剛剛很多委員都談這個這個租賃市場的這些相關的一些改革那不只部長我還拜託主席再幫我們請財政部一起因為我先從大方向開始談\n\n01:07.280 --> 01:19.144\n剛剛蘇小慧委員有講紅蘿蔔跟棒子然後我們的政府機關不太願意直接面對問題的核心即使如果按照全部大家都叫病叫假都給他課稅的狀況來講房東當然會負擔比較多的稅負\n\n01:22.105 --> 01:44.395\n那從政府機關的角度他也會擔心所謂有轉嫁的效果就是我收到因為我被課很重的稅啊所以我又變相的調漲了房租壓力其實很大所以其實談這件事情應該要好好思考一個方向也就是說現在的這個房東的租金所得其實是並計他的個人所得嘛通常可以當房東就好一點啊對不對所以他可能本來的所得就很高了\n\n01:44.995 --> 02:07.319\n所以他這個房屋的租金所得加在他本來的所得上面他可能課12%20%甚至40%嘛對不對所以壓力很大對不對所以一直都有人在倡議就是說財政部這邊要思考一下把租金所得獨立出來變一個稅務這樣是不是讓我們的行政機關根據你可能要調節市場的狀況有的時候要鼓勵一下有的時候要收緊一下我是不是透過這個稅務跟稅率的調整才能夠比較好針對房東的課稅來做處理\n\n02:11.900 --> 02:35.974\n部長劉部長你認同這樣的做法嗎如果我們有一個獨立相關的稅務來討論就是說這個房屋租金所得房屋租金所得稅然後它有一個獨立的稅率的話這樣會不會比較好調控就我們的目的事業主管來講我覺得這是一個很好的方向但是稅務還是不是內政部所主導我不知道我不能說是或是不是我要問你的意見嘛所以你覺得好方向來財政部有沒有針對這件事情做思考\n\n02:36.955 --> 03:03.426\n跟委員報告我們現在的那個綜合所得稅他的稅率他可能所得很低他是0那他有可能所得很高他可能是40那我們如果在中間切一個稅率譬如說20這個稅率的話那高所得者他會降稅然後是用0或者是5的比較所得低的他就會稅負就會增加那以房東而言其實有很多房東他其實他如果只有出租一兩間兩三間的房屋他的那個稅負算起來因為我們有\n\n03:06.527 --> 03:18.015\n很高的免稅扣除額這個房東都可以報那另外他的這個租金收入他還可以減43%的費用所以很多房東他如果出租兩間三間四間他其實他整個算起來他的稅負不會很高他可能適用的稅率只有5%12%那我們如果調高到稅率20%他是增加稅務的我沒有講說他一定20%我講說獨立一個稅務然後你看我們的政策方向來做調整\n\n03:31.104 --> 03:55.813\n你在這個獨立的稅務裡面你一樣可以有分級的機制嘛你一樣可以有一些相關機制的設定嘛對不對那另外再跟委員報告依照我們實務上跟房東接觸的經驗很多房東他不願意他的租金透明他其實是不想繳稅啊所以不管稅務就在10%15%所以這第一個嘛你要有獨立稅務第二個這我不反對這我都可以公開講我不反對有所謂的大赦條款\n\n03:56.593 --> 04:01.557\n因為豬市場黑市的狀況造成的政策負擔跟後果的成本其實遠遠高過你這個\n\n04:03.811 --> 04:31.725\n幾萬幾萬的這樣一個稅率的所以你如果有現在有獨立的稅務然後搭配所謂的大赦條款是不是讓大家通通可以納管然後進入一個新的秩序本身今天提這個就是你真的要提紅紅波的時候跟棒子的時候其實就是把這個東西進入深水區我希望財政部好好來做思考好不好跟內政部充分來做協商把這個東西列為可能的項目要不然你在現行的情況之下萬一政策遇到瓶頸那還是一樣嘛對不對好不好這第一個大方向要跟大家做思考那財政部再等一下\n\n04:35.115 --> 04:50.258\n這個前一陣子我們開了這個房租抵稅的記者會因為今年開始有新的這個制度上路嘛好就是說我們又把這個從變成列舉扣除額嘛好把它變成就是說也就是說給給房客有更多的一個減稅的機會但是請問財政部目前的評估有多少房客知道這個事\n\n04:52.742 --> 05:14.735\n跟委員報告因為今年五月報稅是首次要適用這個新的扣除了那我們大概因為五月報稅我們大概會開始最近就會開始密集的宣導這個新措施這個大利多是對這是一個利多嘛那本期這兩個要求這前一陣子我們記者會我想財政部應該也看到了第一個就房租的資訊其實是有辦法代入你們現在都有報稅系統嘛\n\n05:15.635 --> 05:31.821\n那其實你抱歉現在其實按照內政部講大概說七十幾萬戶其實都有掌握資料那是不是可以直接做借接系統借接這第一個財政部現在做得到這個事嗎目前系統直接借接沒有辦法因為房客他包括除了他另外有房客的條件那他\n\n05:32.621 --> 05:53.108\n不是直接內政部那邊過來的資料就可以用如果他技術上有困難你研究一下怎麼樣來突破這沒有關係因為馬上上路嘛我現在要你變出一個新的制度恐怕也為難你這個本席理解但你要往這個方向去思考就是說萬一你的宣導不到位導致今年還是很多人不知道這個利多的時候你的這個系統界階其實是可以補上很大一塊的缺口嘛\n\n05:53.468 --> 06:05.840\n所以請你去研究也許明年我們來做思考那第二個你好歹要有一個申訴或諮詢的專線吧那萬一遇到了不給報啊或者是說我不知道狀況我想多問一下請問財政部現在針對這樣子有沒有提供相關的一些服務\n\n06:07.502 --> 06:31.793\n我們報稅諮詢本來就有相關的諮詢的服務是我的意思是說針對新制啦這個抵稅諮詢啦你要特別去講一下有新制諮詢的這個申訴專線啦那你會有提供資料啊這我們要跟我們的租屋朋友來做宣告就是我們會有很多的管道不管是諮詢或者是他的QA沒關係你把它整理出來好那個其實讓大家都去協助去轉發其實都對你的政策宣導是有幫助的好不好好\n\n06:32.993 --> 06:47.728\n好那謝謝財政部來我們繼續來內政部部長換你了辛苦這我們今天在討論豬市場透明化對不對那前面本席曾經有提過就是說比如說包租代管先來做所謂的實價登錄那當然我們當初的政府機關這個講說\n\n06:49.569 --> 07:10.096\n這個一步跨得太快我們希望給政府機關一點時間來分的步子來前進這個本席願意尊重也在密切觀察你們的表現所以你們現在推出了這個所謂的租金統計資訊也就是剛剛部長所報告的這個分行政區來做這個這個25分位50分位跟75分位的所謂的租金市場的這個揭露啦那\n\n07:11.776 --> 07:32.782\n我必須講說有進步但是還有很大的進步空間因為你第一次發布的時候真的只有行政區跟最粗略的版本那照你今年年初發布的稍微細了一點至少開始有一整戶的獨立套房的跟分租的有開始往比較細緻的方向來前進這一點是不錯的但是核心的問題本期還是要透過這一次的質詢來強力的表達\n\n07:34.242 --> 08:01.691\n第一個你這個租金的統計資訊是沒有獨立系統來部長你這份PDF檔就是在你的內政部不動產資訊平台的租金統計資訊的PDF檔它的點閱次數是多少你們有統計嗎這個點閱次數我們應該是會查得到但是我目前沒有手邊資料目前沒有對不對你覺得是很多還是很少我認為應該會有一些人會有一些人但是其實知道的人不多啦\n\n08:02.311 --> 08:30.883\n這以本席的了解啦知道的人恐怕不多沒關係你把點閱數字調出來你會後提供給大家參考因為這是一個重要的指標我為什麼講說要有獨立系統因為那系統就像大家查實價登錄一樣嘛我想買房子的時候我去查實價登錄系統或是我想租房子的時候我也會跟民間的業者去查詢相關的行情要嘛你做出內政部的獨立系統好好推廣要嘛你要跟比如民間的比如說那種591租屋網等等你來做借街也不是壞事你這樣是不是整個的資訊的易達性會比較高好這是本席的第一個提醒\n\n08:31.343 --> 08:53.972\n中委員報告一下那個有關於推廣的部分我們現在跟591已經有合作那他們會可以連結過來包含我們也通把那個告知所有你跟各個民間有在租房的平台來做串聯啦然後要把這一樣你要把成果附上來因為你現在我可以炒到成果大概只有長這樣第二所以要嘛你有獨立系統要嘛你跟民間解決這第一個建議第二要細分生活圈啦以本期的選區歸三來講\n\n08:55.654 --> 09:13.014\n這雖然你龜山區是一區對不對跟我龜山區是四個生活圈啊渥渝區回榮跟新莊很靠近渥渝區平頂跟林口很靠近渥渝區跟桃園很靠近渥渝區跟蘆竹很靠近它其實還是有生活圈的差異啦所以我還是希望一步步來做沒有關係我今天講你願意有時間你只要讓我看到每半年有成果\n\n09:13.675 --> 09:29.074\n這個我都會正面看待因為這本來就要逐步來處理但是你說從行政區要繼續往下走不要只是停在這裡要不然畢竟粗略啊因為一個龜山區我到底以哪一個生活圈為準呢每一個生活圈其實狀況是不一樣的所以我覺得要氣氛生活圈你們有這樣子的打算跟\n\n09:31.836 --> 09:46.340\n狀況嗎跟委員報告其實跟租屋網借機大概就是一個起步啦因為你也知道說租屋網他才會用一些關鍵的地點我知道委員的意思大概就是說把一些關鍵地點作為一個區分這或許是長期我們可以\n\n09:47.000 --> 10:04.174\n逐步來做但是我們當然也會過程會很小心因為因為有些部分因為不管是學區也好或一些關鍵的工作地點那當然常常會有出現租金異常波動的這個我們會在中間再小心的來控制這個部分好第三個是沒有北平的這個租金中位數\n\n10:04.975 --> 10:28.898\n因為你這個有數字但是還是很粗略啦我現在就講嘛不管是類別也好地理位置也好或者是你相關的這個數字也好你都要更詳細嘛你越詳細你才會越接近透明嘛對不對來請回答跟委員報告那個部分委員建議美萍的那個部分的話我們現在也在研議當中那我們會串接我們的地級資料會知道它的面積有多少\n\n10:29.399 --> 10:39.300\n那這個部分的話因為會有幾個限制就是可能分出的部分面積就比較難掌握所以我們會從整層跟整套的整層跟整套先做所以我想好\n\n10:41.016 --> 11:06.889\n這樣子今天提了這三個要求對不對你是每半年更新資料嗎還是多長時間更新資料現在的話規劃是6月跟12月所以我下一次看到更新資料的時候是6月對不對我可以多看到哪些具體的資訊那個有關於美萍的那個租金單價現在已經在做一個處理那因為還要看資料匯進來的一個品質是怎麼樣那這個部分的話我們已經現在演繹當中了\n\n11:07.589 --> 11:20.361\n好我希望六月可以看到好的結果啦好不好我們就你既然講說給你時間來分來往前走這個我願意給你時間但你要讓讓他讓最後他可以變成一個符合租客權益期待的這樣子的一個版本好這個蕭寶處麻煩一下\n\n11:30.680 --> 11:45.865\n我也好這個我們每一年都在針對不管是租屋的基於透明化的政策等等其實都涉及這個相關法令的一些修正那麼相關法令的一些修正當然就跟你的契約等等會有一定的聯動跟關係嘛那租賃行為當然是消費市場的行為\n\n11:46.565 --> 12:03.542\n前一陣子我們台灣市政府查了一下這明明法令一直更新可是市售大概有六成的租賃契約因為大家都用定型化契約嘛一拿一簽蓋章就成立了嘛可是你這六成以上都是舊版然後你就說當然我們就說輔導下架輔導下架有用嗎更新的狀況怎麼樣你有掌握嗎\n\n12:05.298 --> 12:25.436\n這個更新的部分因為我們內政部長期以來都有定一個計畫從111年以來內政部都有辦一些查核的計畫針對這個市售的通路上面的租賃契約到底合不合規做一些討論然後做一些查核那其中有一年我們也是跟內政部一併去查核我們都會協助他們一起去查核那內政部查核的結果怎麼樣\n\n12:26.429 --> 12:39.617\n向委員報告除了跟消保處合作之外我們也有延定計畫要求縣市政府這邊要來做一個查核從111年我們第一次的話不合格率的部分就是舊版的話大概是\n\n12:41.678 --> 13:10.037\n比例契約的比例大概是三成不過112年跟113年的話就降到5%跟7%所以是有明顯的下降那去年的部分因為電價新制的部分有新的更新的一個契約的一個狀況所以舊版的比例又拉高不過我們這個現在還在持續在做這個方面的一個查核向委員報告這我其中拿一項來提醒你啦比如說要記載這個房屋基本資料等等然後它其實要提供圖說嘛\n\n13:11.278 --> 13:27.132\n這個就本期的了解在市售的定型化契約上完全沒有預留相關的空間了所以我是覺得既然這個法規都有在滾動式來修正其實你這個定型化契約的範本跟這個你要與時均的更新啊你要讓業者可以馬上跟上啊這樣子才有辦法具體來做下降這是本期的另外一個提醒\n\n13:28.133 --> 13:54.454\n來最後一個題目不好意思我今天耽誤了一點時間我還是要請部長我們討論一下這個社宅的分級租金制度這去年的十月喔大家這個民團有民團的意見這本席了解那部裡面有部裡面的為難這個我也知道中央有中央的想法地方有地方的想法它是一個很困難的題目但是在大家的追蹤之下這個在去年的十月基本上開始找到共識了大概會是用這樣子的方式來調整我就不多贅述來我請問一下這個\n\n13:57.526 --> 14:24.891\n署長或者是部長就是這個版本了嗎目前大概就是26號還會用這個版本繼續討論什麼時候會有一個明確的定案應該這麼說這樣分期以後我們還是要了解各縣市政府如果他確定執行的話他可能還會有什麼樣的問題或困擾目前你掌握到的狀況有哪些問題或困難嗎目前來講因為各個縣市對這樣的一個尤其是這個中低收入戶的一個認定\n\n14:25.951 --> 14:54.913\n那他們當然是期待是說衛福部的這個中低收入的這個數據是他們一般來講是最信任的啦也是大概目前來講比較所以他們回去他們上次回去就說大概回去會按照這個去了解看看看他們這樣是不是確定可以做好這樣的一個分級那第二個就是說因為大概非六都會以中央為準那大概我們也有請駐都也確認看看這樣的一個操作模式這樣是不是確定都可行\n\n14:55.293 --> 15:24.093\n所以未來就會照這個原則上只要沒有太大的問題就會照這個方向確定定案了嗎大致上會照這個方向OK好那如果喔我多問兩個問題喔如果以採取分級租金現在比如說新北台北桃園啊這個他們也會配合這個版本然後大家做修正嗎還是說他們會再加碼或者是說提供更好的版本這個其實個性是多少有一點為難多少有一點為難對大家制度本來不一樣像桃園像桃園大概應該就很困難因為它現在已經面臨要調整也很辛苦的一個問題\n\n15:24.733 --> 15:46.801\n所以他們原則上也會follow這個制度嗎希望啦但是不一定能夠做得到因為我們沒有一定強制他做因為各縣市狀況不一樣好這個我希望喔這個趕快溝通因為從完全沒有共識對不對本來是什麼身分別釋價打折跟分級租金收取制度嘛到現在大家開始聚焦那我就希望這個部裡面要多加油啦好不好\n\n15:47.782 --> 15:57.157\n針對這樣的事情我希望3月26號的會議裡面可以聽到好消息會議的結果一定要讓我們知道因為我們都很關心這個相關政策的一個推動的進度可以嗎好好謝謝部長組長辛苦了謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.034,"end":5.342,"text":"好 謝謝主席啊 劉部長有請有請部長好 部長辛苦啦這剛剛大家在談這個"},{"start":9.901,"end":36.272,"text":"相關預算一些解凍其實我今天排這個案子不外乎也是為解凍做準備因為我們談租金補貼難免凍結當然就是監督的延伸希望在這個相關居住正義的題目上面我們的政府機關有很好的KPI而且有很好的執行成效那當然大家就不會為難預算那我想目前為止都算有一些進展那沒辦法嘛你總要等預算總統公告失效之後才能開始排解凍案嘛這我想部長也不會反對這是標準的作業流程"},{"start":36.852,"end":64.706,"text":"那本席作為召委我可以在這邊非常開放的跟部長說如果內政部只要準備好相關的報告我們趕快走程序這個你要求本席來做排案解凍我也非常樂意支持就希望內政部速度加快好不好這樣大家都不擔心可以嗎謝謝召委好謝謝剛剛很多委員都談這個這個租賃市場的這些相關的一些改革那不只部長我還拜託主席再幫我們請財政部一起因為我先從大方向開始談"},{"start":67.28,"end":79.144,"text":"剛剛蘇小慧委員有講紅蘿蔔跟棒子然後我們的政府機關不太願意直接面對問題的核心即使如果按照全部大家都叫病叫假都給他課稅的狀況來講房東當然會負擔比較多的稅負"},{"start":82.105,"end":104.395,"text":"那從政府機關的角度他也會擔心所謂有轉嫁的效果就是我收到因為我被課很重的稅啊所以我又變相的調漲了房租壓力其實很大所以其實談這件事情應該要好好思考一個方向也就是說現在的這個房東的租金所得其實是並計他的個人所得嘛通常可以當房東就好一點啊 對不對所以他可能本來的所得就很高了"},{"start":104.995,"end":127.319,"text":"所以他這個房屋的租金所得加在他本來的所得上面他可能課12% 20%甚至40%嘛 對不對所以壓力很大 對不對所以一直都有人在倡議就是說財政部這邊要思考一下把租金所得獨立出來變一個稅務這樣是不是讓我們的行政機關根據你可能要調節市場的狀況有的時候要鼓勵一下有的時候要收緊一下我是不是透過這個稅務跟稅率的調整才能夠比較好針對房東的課稅來做處理"},{"start":131.9,"end":155.974,"text":"部長 劉部長你認同這樣的做法嗎如果我們有一個獨立相關的稅務來討論就是說這個房屋租金所得房屋租金所得稅然後它有一個獨立的稅率的話這樣會不會比較好調控就我們的目的事業主管來講我覺得這是一個很好的方向但是稅務還是不是內政部所主導我不知道我不能說是或是不是我要問你的意見嘛所以你覺得好方向來財政部有沒有針對這件事情做思考"},{"start":156.955,"end":183.426,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在的那個綜合所得稅他的稅率他可能所得很低他是0那他有可能所得很高他可能是40那我們如果在中間切一個稅率譬如說20這個稅率的話那高所得者他會降稅然後是用0或者是5的比較所得低的他就會稅負就會增加那以房東而言其實有很多房東他其實他如果只有出租一兩間兩三間的房屋他的那個稅負算起來因為我們有"},{"start":186.527,"end":198.015,"text":"很高的免稅扣除額這個房東都可以報那另外他的這個租金收入他還可以減43%的費用所以很多房東他如果出租兩間三間四間他其實他整個算起來他的稅負不會很高他可能適用的稅率只有5% 12%那我們如果調高到稅率20%他是增加稅務的我沒有講說他一定20%我講說獨立一個稅務然後你看我們的政策方向來做調整"},{"start":211.104,"end":235.813,"text":"你在這個獨立的稅務裡面你一樣可以有分級的機制嘛你一樣可以有一些相關機制的設定嘛對不對那另外再跟委員報告依照我們實務上跟房東接觸的經驗很多房東他不願意他的租金透明他其實是不想繳稅啊所以不管稅務就在10% 15%所以這第一個嘛你要有獨立稅務第二個這我不反對這我都可以公開講我不反對有所謂的大赦條款"},{"start":236.593,"end":241.557,"text":"因為豬市場黑市的狀況造成的政策負擔跟後果的成本其實遠遠高過你這個"},{"start":243.811,"end":271.725,"text":"幾萬幾萬的這樣一個稅率的所以你如果有現在有獨立的稅務然後搭配所謂的大赦條款是不是讓大家通通可以納管然後進入一個新的秩序本身今天提這個就是你真的要提紅紅波的時候跟棒子的時候其實就是把這個東西進入深水區我希望財政部好好來做思考好不好跟內政部充分來做協商把這個東西列為可能的項目要不然你在現行的情況之下萬一政策遇到瓶頸那還是一樣嘛對不對好不好這第一個大方向要跟大家做思考那財政部再等一下"},{"start":275.115,"end":290.258,"text":"這個前一陣子我們開了這個房租抵稅的記者會因為今年開始有新的這個制度上路嘛好就是說我們又把這個從變成列舉扣除額嘛好把它變成就是說也就是說給給房客有更多的一個減稅的機會但是請問財政部目前的評估有多少房客知道這個事"},{"start":292.742,"end":314.735,"text":"跟委員報告因為今年五月報稅是首次要適用這個新的扣除了那我們大概因為五月報稅我們大概會開始最近就會開始密集的宣導這個新措施這個大利多是對這是一個利多嘛那本期這兩個要求這前一陣子我們記者會我想財政部應該也看到了第一個就房租的資訊其實是有辦法代入你們現在都有報稅系統嘛"},{"start":315.635,"end":331.821,"text":"那其實你抱歉現在其實按照內政部講大概說七十幾萬戶其實都有掌握資料那是不是可以直接做借接系統借接這第一個財政部現在做得到這個事嗎目前系統直接借接沒有辦法因為房客他包括除了他另外有房客的條件那他"},{"start":332.621,"end":353.108,"text":"不是直接內政部那邊過來的資料就可以用如果他技術上有困難你研究一下怎麼樣來突破這沒有關係因為馬上上路嘛我現在要你變出一個新的制度恐怕也為難你這個本席理解但你要往這個方向去思考就是說萬一你的宣導不到位導致今年還是很多人不知道這個利多的時候你的這個系統界階其實是可以補上很大一塊的缺口嘛"},{"start":353.468,"end":365.84,"text":"所以請你去研究也許明年我們來做思考那第二個你好歹要有一個申訴或諮詢的專線吧那萬一遇到了不給報啊或者是說我不知道狀況我想多問一下請問財政部現在針對這樣子有沒有提供相關的一些服務"},{"start":367.502,"end":391.793,"text":"我們報稅諮詢本來就有相關的諮詢的服務是我的意思是說針對新制啦這個抵稅諮詢啦你要特別去講一下有新制諮詢的這個申訴專線啦那你會有提供資料啊這我們要跟我們的租屋朋友來做宣告就是我們會有很多的管道不管是諮詢或者是他的QA沒關係你把它整理出來好那個其實讓大家都去協助去轉發其實都對你的政策宣導是有幫助的好不好好"},{"start":392.993,"end":407.728,"text":"好那謝謝財政部來我們繼續來內政部部長換你了辛苦這我們今天在討論豬市場透明化對不對那前面本席曾經有提過就是說比如說包租代管先來做所謂的實價登錄那當然我們當初的政府機關這個講說"},{"start":409.569,"end":430.096,"text":"這個一步跨得太快我們希望給政府機關一點時間來分的步子來前進這個本席願意尊重也在密切觀察你們的表現所以你們現在推出了這個所謂的租金統計資訊也就是剛剛部長所報告的這個分行政區來做這個這個25分位50分位跟75分位的所謂的租金市場的這個揭露啦那"},{"start":431.776,"end":452.782,"text":"我必須講說有進步但是還有很大的進步空間因為你第一次發布的時候真的只有行政區跟最粗略的版本那照你今年年初發布的稍微細了一點至少開始有一整戶的獨立套房的跟分租的有開始往比較細緻的方向來前進這一點是不錯的但是核心的問題本期還是要透過這一次的質詢來強力的表達"},{"start":454.242,"end":481.691,"text":"第一個你這個租金的統計資訊是沒有獨立系統來 部長你這份PDF檔就是在你的內政部不動產資訊平台的租金統計資訊的PDF檔它的點閱次數是多少你們有統計嗎這個點閱次數我們應該是會查得到但是我目前沒有手邊資料目前沒有對不對你覺得是很多還是很少我認為應該會有一些人會有一些人但是其實知道的人不多啦"},{"start":482.311,"end":510.883,"text":"這以本席的了解啦知道的人恐怕不多沒關係你把點閱數字調出來你會後提供給大家參考因為這是一個重要的指標我為什麼講說要有獨立系統因為那系統就像大家查實價登錄一樣嘛我想買房子的時候我去查實價登錄系統或是我想租房子的時候我也會跟民間的業者去查詢相關的行情要嘛你做出內政部的獨立系統好好推廣要嘛你要跟比如民間的比如說那種591租屋網等等你來做借街也不是壞事你這樣是不是整個的資訊的易達性會比較高好這是本席的第一個提醒"},{"start":511.343,"end":533.972,"text":"中委員報告一下那個有關於推廣的部分我們現在跟591已經有合作那他們會可以連結過來包含我們也通把那個告知所有你跟各個民間有在租房的平台來做串聯啦然後要把這一樣你要把成果附上來因為你現在我可以炒到成果大概只有長這樣第二所以要嘛你有獨立系統要嘛你跟民間解決這第一個建議第二要細分生活圈啦以本期的選區歸三來講"},{"start":535.654,"end":553.014,"text":"這雖然你龜山區是一區對不對跟我龜山區是四個生活圈啊渥渝區回榮跟新莊很靠近渥渝區平頂跟林口很靠近渥渝區跟桃園很靠近渥渝區跟蘆竹很靠近它其實還是有生活圈的差異啦所以我還是希望一步步來做沒有關係我今天講你願意有時間你只要讓我看到每半年有成果"},{"start":553.675,"end":569.074,"text":"這個我都會正面看待因為這本來就要逐步來處理但是你說從行政區要繼續往下走不要只是停在這裡要不然畢竟粗略啊因為一個龜山區我到底以哪一個生活圈為準呢每一個生活圈其實狀況是不一樣的所以我覺得要氣氛生活圈你們有這樣子的打算跟"},{"start":571.836,"end":586.34,"text":"狀況嗎跟委員報告其實跟租屋網借機大概就是一個起步啦因為你也知道說租屋網他才會用一些關鍵的地點我知道委員的意思大概就是說把一些關鍵地點作為一個區分這或許是長期我們可以"},{"start":587,"end":604.174,"text":"逐步來做但是我們當然也會過程會很小心因為因為有些部分因為不管是學區也好或一些關鍵的工作地點那當然常常會有出現租金異常波動的這個我們會在中間再小心的來控制這個部分好第三個是沒有北平的這個租金中位數"},{"start":604.975,"end":628.898,"text":"因為你這個有數字但是還是很粗略啦我現在就講嘛 不管是類別也好 地理位置也好或者是你相關的這個數字也好 你都要更詳細嘛你越詳細你才會越接近透明嘛 對不對來 請回答跟委員報告 那個部分委員建議美萍的那個部分的話我們現在也在研議當中那我們會串接我們的地級資料會知道它的面積有多少"},{"start":629.399,"end":639.3,"text":"那這個部分的話因為會有幾個限制就是可能分出的部分面積就比較難掌握所以我們會從整層跟整套的整層跟整套先做所以我想好"},{"start":641.016,"end":666.889,"text":"這樣子今天提了這三個要求對不對你是每半年更新資料嗎還是多長時間更新資料現在的話規劃是6月跟12月所以我下一次看到更新資料的時候是6月對不對我可以多看到哪些具體的資訊那個有關於美萍的那個租金單價現在已經在做一個處理那因為還要看資料匯進來的一個品質是怎麼樣那這個部分的話我們已經現在演繹當中了"},{"start":667.589,"end":680.361,"text":"好我希望六月可以看到好的結果啦好不好我們就你既然講說給你時間來分來往前走這個我願意給你時間但你要讓讓他讓最後他可以變成一個符合租客權益期待的這樣子的一個版本好這個蕭寶處麻煩一下"},{"start":690.68,"end":705.865,"text":"我也好這個我們每一年都在針對不管是租屋的基於透明化的政策等等其實都涉及這個相關法令的一些修正那麼相關法令的一些修正當然就跟你的契約等等會有一定的聯動跟關係嘛那租賃行為當然是消費市場的行為"},{"start":706.565,"end":723.542,"text":"前一陣子我們台灣市政府查了一下這明明法令一直更新可是市售大概有六成的租賃契約因為大家都用定型化契約嘛一拿一簽蓋章就成立了嘛可是你這六成以上都是舊版然後你就說當然我們就說輔導下架輔導下架有用嗎更新的狀況怎麼樣你有掌握嗎"},{"start":725.298,"end":745.436,"text":"這個更新的部分因為我們內政部長期以來都有定一個計畫從111年以來內政部都有辦一些查核的計畫針對這個市售的通路上面的租賃契約到底合不合規做一些討論然後做一些查核那其中有一年我們也是跟內政部一併去查核我們都會協助他們一起去查核那內政部查核的結果怎麼樣"},{"start":746.429,"end":759.617,"text":"向委員報告除了跟消保處合作之外我們也有延定計畫要求縣市政府這邊要來做一個查核從111年我們第一次的話不合格率的部分就是舊版的話大概是"},{"start":761.678,"end":790.037,"text":"比例 契約的比例大概是三成不過112年跟113年的話就降到5%跟7%所以是有明顯的下降那去年的部分因為電價新制的部分有新的更新的一個契約的一個狀況所以舊版的比例又拉高不過我們這個現在還在持續在做這個方面的一個查核向委員報告這我其中拿一項來提醒你啦比如說要記載這個房屋基本資料等等然後它其實要提供圖說嘛"},{"start":791.278,"end":807.132,"text":"這個就本期的了解在市售的定型化契約上完全沒有預留相關的空間了所以我是覺得既然這個法規都有在滾動式來修正其實你這個定型化契約的範本跟這個你要與時均的更新啊你要讓業者可以馬上跟上啊這樣子才有辦法具體來做下降這是本期的另外一個提醒"},{"start":808.133,"end":834.454,"text":"來最後一個題目不好意思我今天耽誤了一點時間我還是要請部長我們討論一下這個社宅的分級租金制度這去年的十月喔大家這個民團有民團的意見這本席了解那部裡面有部裡面的為難這個我也知道中央有中央的想法地方有地方的想法它是一個很困難的題目但是在大家的追蹤之下這個在去年的十月基本上開始找到共識了大概會是用這樣子的方式來調整我就不多贅述來我請問一下這個"},{"start":837.526,"end":864.891,"text":"署長或者是部長就是這個版本了嗎目前大概就是26號還會用這個版本繼續討論什麼時候會有一個明確的定案應該這麼說這樣分期以後我們還是要了解各縣市政府如果他確定執行的話他可能還會有什麼樣的問題或困擾目前你掌握到的狀況有哪些問題或困難嗎目前來講因為各個縣市對這樣的一個尤其是這個中低收入戶的一個認定"},{"start":865.951,"end":894.913,"text":"那他們當然是期待是說衛福部的這個中低收入的這個數據是他們一般來講是最信任的啦也是大概目前來講比較所以他們回去他們上次回去就說大概回去會按照這個去了解看看看他們這樣是不是確定可以做好這樣的一個分級那第二個就是說因為大概非六都會以中央為準那大概我們也有請駐都也確認看看這樣的一個操作模式這樣是不是確定都可行"},{"start":895.293,"end":924.093,"text":"所以未來就會照這個原則上只要沒有太大的問題就會照這個方向確定定案了嗎大致上會照這個方向OK好那如果喔我多問兩個問題喔如果以採取分級租金現在比如說新北台北桃園啊這個他們也會配合這個版本然後大家做修正嗎還是說他們會再加碼或者是說提供更好的版本這個其實個性是多少有一點為難多少有一點為難對大家制度本來不一樣像桃園像桃園大概應該就很困難因為它現在已經面臨要調整也很辛苦的一個問題"},{"start":924.733,"end":946.801,"text":"所以他們原則上也會follow這個制度嗎希望啦但是不一定能夠做得到因為我們沒有一定強制他做因為各縣市狀況不一樣好這個我希望喔這個趕快溝通因為從完全沒有共識對不對本來是什麼身分別釋價打折跟分級租金收取制度嘛到現在大家開始聚焦那我就希望這個部裡面要多加油啦好不好"},{"start":947.782,"end":957.157,"text":"針對這樣的事情我希望3月26號的會議裡面可以聽到好消息會議的結果一定要讓我們知道因為我們都很關心這個相關政策的一個推動的進度可以嗎好好謝謝部長組長辛苦了謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":467,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時33分）謝謝主席，劉部長有請。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：召委好。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長辛苦了。剛剛大家在談相關預算一些解凍的問題，其實我今天排這個案子，不外乎也是為解凍做準備。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：因為我們談租金補貼難免凍結，當然就是監督的延伸，希望在相關居住正義的題目上面，我們的政府機關有很好的KPI，而且有很好的執行成效，當然大家就不會為難預算。我想目前為止都算有一些進展，沒辦法嘛，你總要等預算總統公告生效之後才能開始排解凍案，這個我想部長也不會反對，這是標準的作業流程。本席作為召委，我可以在這邊非常開放地跟部長說，內政部只要準備好相關的報告，我們趕快走程序，你要求本席來做排案解凍，我也非常樂意支持，希望內政部速度加快好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：好，謝謝召委。"],["牛委員煦庭：這樣大家都不擔心，可以嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝召委。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝。剛剛很多委員都談租賃市場相關的一些改革，不只部長，我還拜託主席再幫我們請財政部一起，因為我要先從大方向開始談。剛剛蘇巧慧委員有提及紅蘿蔔跟棒子，然後我們的政府機關不太願意直接面對問題的核心，其實如果全部大家都「照品照走」，都給他課稅的狀況來講，房東當然會負擔比較多的稅負，從政府機關的角度來看，也會擔心有轉嫁的效果，因為他被課很重的稅啊！所以他又變相的調漲房租，壓力其實很大，所以談這件事情應該要好好思考一個方向，也就是說，現在房東的租金所得其實是併計他的個人所得，通常可以當房東應該都很有錢，對不對？可能他本來的所得就很高了，所以這個房屋的租金所得加到他本來的所得上面，他可能是課12%、20%甚至40%，對不對？所以壓力很大，因此一直都有人在倡議，就是說財政部這邊要不要思考一下，把租金所得獨立出來變成一個稅目，這樣是不是讓我們的行政機關根據你可能要調節市場的狀況，有的時候要鼓勵一下，有的時候要收緊一下？是不是透過這個稅目跟稅率的調整，才能夠比較好針對房東的課稅來做處理？劉部長，你認同這樣的作法嗎？如果我們有一個獨立相關的稅目，就是說這個房屋租金所得、房屋租金所得稅，然後有一個獨立的稅率的話，這樣會不會比較好調控？"],["劉部長世芳：就我們的目的事業主管來講，我覺得這是一個很好的方向，但是稅負不是內政部所主掌，我不能說是或是不是。"],["牛委員煦庭：我知道，我要問你的意見嘛，所以你覺得是一個好方向，那財政部有沒有針對這件事情做思考？"],["倪副署長麗心：跟委員報告，我們現在綜合所得稅的稅率，他可能所得很低，他是0，他有可能所得很高，他可能是40，我們如果在中間切一個稅率，譬如說20這個稅率的話，那高所得者會降稅，然後適用0或者是5這些所得比較低的，稅負就會增加。以房東而言，其實很多房東如果只有出租一、兩間、兩、三間房屋，他的稅負算起來……因為我們有很高的免稅額、扣除額，這個房東都可以報，另外，這個租金收入他還可以減43%的費用，所以很多房東如果出租兩間、三間、四間，其實整個算起來，他的稅負不會很高，他可能適用的稅率只有5%、12%，我們如果調高到稅率20%，他是增加稅負的。"],["牛委員煦庭：我沒有講說他一定是20%，我是講說獨立一個稅目，然後你看我們的政策方向來做調整，在這個獨立的稅目裡面，你一樣可以有分級的機制，一樣可以有一些相關機制的設定，對不對？"],["倪副署長麗心：另外再跟委員報告，依照我們實務上跟房東接觸的經驗，很多房東不願意租金透明，他其實是不想繳稅，所以不管……"],["牛委員煦庭：對啊！問題在這裡嘛！"],["倪副署長麗心：所以不管稅負在10%、15%，他其實還是……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以這第一個，要有獨立稅負。第二個，我不反對，我都可以公開講，我不反對有所謂的大赦條款，因為租屋市場黑市的狀況造成政策負擔跟後果的成本，其實遠遠高過幾萬、幾萬的稅率，所以如果現在有獨立的稅目，再搭配所謂的大赦條款，是不是讓大家統統可以納管，然後進入一個新的秩序？本席今天提這個，就是你真的要提紅蘿蔔跟棒子的時候，其實就是把這個東西進入深水區，我希望財政部好好思考，好不好？跟內政部充分協商，把這個東西列為可能的項目，要不然在現行情況之下，萬一政策遇到瓶頸，那還是一樣嘛！對不對？這第一個大方向來跟大家思考。財政部再等一下。","前一陣子我們開了房租抵稅記者會，因為今年開始有新的制度上路，就是說我們又把這個變成列舉扣除額，也就是說給房客有更多的減稅機會，但是請問財政部目前的評估，有多少房客知道這個事？"],["倪副署長麗心：跟委員報告，因為今年5月報稅是首次要適用這個新的扣除額。"],["牛委員煦庭：對。"],["倪副署長麗心：因為是5月報稅，我們大概最近就會開始密集宣導這個新措施，這個大利多。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，這是一個利多。本席有兩個要求，前一陣子我們的記者會，我想財政部應該也看到了，第一個，房租的資訊其實是有辦法帶入，你們現在都有報稅系統，按照內政部講，大概七十幾萬戶都有掌握資料，是不是可以直接做系統介接？這第一個，財政部現在做得到這個事嗎？"],["倪副署長麗心：目前系統直接介接沒有辦法，因為房客報扣除額另外有房客的條件，並不是直接內政部那邊過來的資料就可以用。"],["牛委員煦庭：好。如果技術上有困難，你研究一下怎麼樣來突破，這沒有關係，因為馬上上路，而我現在要你變出一個新的制度，恐怕也為難你，這個本席理解，但你要往這個方向去思考，就是說萬一宣導不到位，導致今年還是有很多人不知道這個利多的時候，這個系統介接其實是可以補上很大一塊缺口，所以請你去研究，也許明年我們來做思考。第二個，好歹要有一個申訴或諮詢的專線吧？萬一遇到不給報，或者是不知道狀況想多問一下的，請問財政部現在針對這樣子有沒有提供相關的一些服務？"],["倪副署長麗心：我們報稅諮詢本來就有相關的諮詢服務。"],["牛委員煦庭：我的意思是針對這個新制，就是抵稅諮詢啦！"],["倪副署長麗心：可以，新制可以。"],["牛委員煦庭：你要特別去講一下有新制諮詢的申訴專線。"],["倪副署長麗心：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：會後提供資料，因為我們要跟我們的租屋朋友宣導。"],["倪副署長麗心：我們會有很多管道，不管是諮詢或者是QA，或是什麼都有。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒關係，你把它整理出來。"],["倪副署長麗心：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：讓大家都去協助、去轉發，其實對你的政策宣導都是有幫助的，好不好？謝謝財政部。","我們繼續，內政部部長，換你了，辛苦！我們今天討論租屋市場透明化，對不對？前面本席曾經有提過，比如包租代管先做所謂的實價登錄，當然當初政府機關有說一步跨得太快，我們希望給政府機關一點時間逐步前進，這個本席願意尊重，也在密切觀察你們的表現。所以你們現在推出了所謂的租金統計資訊，也就是剛剛部長所報告的分行政區做25分位、50分位跟75分位所謂的租金市場揭露，我必須說有進步，但是還有很大的進步空間，因為第一次發布的時候，真的只有行政區跟最粗略的版本，照你今年年初發布的，稍微細了一點，至少開始有一整戶的、獨立套房的跟分租的，有開始往比較細緻的方向前進，這一點是不錯的。但是核心的問題，本席還是要透過這次的質詢強烈表達，第一個，這個租金的統計資訊是沒有獨立系統的，部長，這一份PDF檔，就是在內政部不動產資訊平臺的租金統計資訊PDF檔點閱次數是多少？你們有統計嗎？"],["饒處長志堅：點閱次數我們應該是會查得到，但是目前手邊沒有……"],["牛委員煦庭：目前沒有對不對？"],["饒處長志堅：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：你覺得是很多，還是很少？"],["饒處長志堅：我認為應該會有一些人知道。"],["牛委員煦庭：會有一些人？但其實知道的人不多，以本席的了解，知道的人恐怕不多，沒關係，你把點閱數字調出來，會後提供給大家參考。"],["饒處長志堅：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：因為這是一個重要的指標，我為什麼說要有獨立系統？因為那個系統就像大家查實價登錄一樣，我想買房子的時候去查實價登錄系統，或是我想租房子的時候，我也會跟民間業者去查詢相關的行情，要嘛你做出內政部的獨立系統好好推廣，要嘛你跟民間的比如說591租屋網等等做介接，也不是壞事！這樣是不是整個資訊的易達性會比較高？這是本席的第一個提醒，你要回答嗎？"],["林代理司長家正：跟委員報告一下，有關於推廣的部分，我們現在跟591已經有合作，他們可以連結過來，包含我們告知所有……"],["牛委員煦庭：跟各個民間有在租房的平臺做串聯。"],["林代理司長家正：有。"],["牛委員煦庭：一樣，你要把成果附上來，因為現在我可以查到的成果大概只有長這樣。"],["林代理司長家正：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以，要嘛你有獨立系統，要嘛你跟民間介接，這是第一個建議。第二個，要細分生活圈。以本席的選區龜山來講，雖然龜山區是一區，可是龜山區是四個生活圈，我有一區迴龍跟新莊很靠近，有一區坪頂跟林口很靠近，有一區跟桃園很靠近，還有跟蘆竹很靠近，它其實還是有生活圈的差異，所以我還是希望，一步一步來做沒有關係，我今天講，你願意有時間，你只要讓我看到每半年有成果，這個我都會正面看待，因為這本來就要逐步來處理，但是除了從行政區，要繼續往下走，不要只是停在這裡，要不然畢竟粗略。因為一個龜山區，到底要以哪一個生活圈為準呢？每一個生活圈其實狀況是不一樣的，所以我覺得要細分生活圈，你們有這樣子的打算跟狀況嗎？吳署長回答一下，沒關係。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，其實跟租屋網介接大概就是一個起步，因為你也知道租屋網才會用一些關鍵的地點。"],["牛委員煦庭：對。"],["吳署長欣修：我知道委員的意思，大概就是把一些關鍵地點做為一個區分，這或許是長期我們可以逐步來做的，但是過程我們當然也會很小心，因為有些部分不管是學區也好，或一些關鍵的工作地點，當然常常會出現租金異常波動的，這個我們會在中間再小心控制。"],["牛委員煦庭：好。第三個是沒有每坪的租金中位數，你這個有數字，但是還是很粗略。我現在就講，不管是類別也好，地理位置也好，或者是相關的數字也好，都要更詳細，越詳細才會越接近透明，對不對？來，請回答。"],["林代理司長家正：跟委員報告，委員建議每坪的那個部分，我們現在也在研議當中，我們會串接地籍資料，會知道它的面積有多少。"],["牛委員煦庭：很好，可以串接地籍資料。"],["林代理司長家正：這個部分的話，因為會有幾個限制，就是可能分租的部分，面積就比較難掌握。"],["牛委員煦庭：對。"],["林代理司長家正：所以我們會從整層跟整套的……"],["牛委員煦庭：整層跟整套先做。"],["林代理司長家正：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：這樣子，今天提了三個要求，對不對？你是每半年更新一次資料嗎？還是多長時間更新一次資料？"],["林代理司長家正：現在規劃是6月跟12月。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，所以我下一次看到更新資料的時候是6月，對不對？"],["林代理司長家正：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：我可以多看到哪些具體的資訊？"],["林代理司長家正：有關於每坪的租金單價，現在已經在處理，因為還要看資料匯進來的品質是怎麼樣，這個部分我們現在已經在研議當中了。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，我希望6月可以看到好的結果，好不好？你既然講給你時間往前走，我願意給你時間，但是你要讓最後可以變成一個符合租客權益期待的版本。","消保處麻煩一下。"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：我們每一年都在針對租屋不管是基於透明化政策等等，其實都涉及相關法令的一些修正。"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：相關法令的修正當然就跟契約等等會有一定的連動跟關係，租賃行為當然是消費市場的行為，前一陣子桃園市政府查了一下，明明法令一直更新，可是市售大概有六成的租賃契約因為大家都用定型化契約，一拿了蓋章就成立了嘛！"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：可是這六成以上都是舊版，當然我們是說輔導下架，輔導下架有用嗎？更新的狀況怎麼樣？你有掌握嗎？"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：有關更新的部分，因為內政部長期以來都有訂一個計畫，從111年以來，內政部都有辦一些查核計畫，針對市售通路上面的租賃契約到底合不合規做一些討論，然後做一些查核，其中有一年我們也是跟內政部一併去查核，我們都會協助他們一起去查核。"],["牛委員煦庭：內政部，查核的結果怎麼樣？"],["林代理司長家正：向委員報告，除了跟消保處合作之外，我們也有研訂計畫要求縣市政府要查核。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，大家都配合查，也查到了，後面怎麼辦？"],["林代理司長家正：從111年第一次，不合格率的部分，就是舊版契約的比例大概是三成，不過112年跟113年就降到5%跟7%了，所以是有明顯的下降。去年因為電價新制的部分有更新契約的狀況，所以舊版的比例又拉高，不過我們現在還在持續做這方面的查核，向委員報告。"],["牛委員煦庭：其中我拿一項來提醒你，比如說要記載房屋基本資料等等，然後是要提供圖說，就本席的了解，在市售定型化契約上完全沒有預留相關的空間，所以我是覺得既然法規都有在滾動式修正，那麼定型化契約的範本要與時俱進更新，要讓業者可以馬上跟上，這樣子才有辦法具體下降，這是本席的另外一個提醒。","最後一個題目，不好意思，我今天耽誤了一點時間，我還是要請部長，我們討論一下社宅的分級租金制度。去年10月，民團有民團的意見，這個本席了解，那部裡面有部裡面的為難，這個我也知道；中央有中央的想法，地方有地方的想法，它是一個很困難的題目。但是在大家的追蹤之下，在去年10月基本上開始找到共識了，大概會是用這樣子的方式來調整，我就不多贅述。","我請問一下署長或者部長，就是這個版本了嗎？未來收費的標準。"],["吳署長欣修：26日還會用這個版本繼續討論。"],["牛委員煦庭：什麼時候會有一個明確的定案？26日……"],["吳署長欣修：應該這麼說，這樣分級以後，我們還是要了解各縣市政府如果確定執行的話，它可能還會有什麼樣的問題或困擾，尤其在資料的取得……"],["牛委員煦庭：目前你掌握到的狀況有哪些問題或困難嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：目前來講，因為各個縣市對這個，尤其是中低收入戶的認定，當然期待說衛福部的中低收入的數據，是他們一般來講最信任的，也是大概在目前來講比較……"],["牛委員煦庭：有公信力的？"],["吳署長欣修：他們上次回去就說，大概回去會按照這個去了解看看……"],["牛委員煦庭：算一下。"],["吳署長欣修：看他們是不是確定可以做好這樣的一個分級。第二個，因為大概非六都會以中央為準，當然我們也請住都確認看看這樣的操作模式是不是確定都可行。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以未來就會照這個，原則上只要沒有太大的問題就會照這個方向確定定案了嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：大致上會照這個方向。"],["牛委員煦庭：好。我多問兩個問題，如果以採取分級租金，現在比如新北、臺北、桃園，他們也會配合這個版本然後大家做修正嗎？還是他們會再加碼，或者提供更好……"],["吳署長欣修：其實各縣市多少有一點為難。"],["牛委員煦庭：多少有點為難，對，大家的制度本來不一樣。"],["吳署長欣修：對，像桃園應該就很困難，因為它現在已經面臨要調整的問題也很辛苦。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以他們原則上也會follow這個制度？"],["吳署長欣修：希望啦！但是不一定能夠做得到，我們沒有一定強制它做，因為各縣市狀況不一樣。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，我希望這個趕快溝通，因為從完全沒有共識，本來是什麼「身分別市價打折」和分級租金收取制度，到現在大家開始聚焦，那我就希望部裡面要多加油，好不好？針對這樣的事情，我希望3月26日的會議裡面可以聽到好消息，會議的結果一定要讓我們知道，因為我們都很關心相關政策的推動進度，可以嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝部長、署長，辛苦了。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢。","接下來請李柏毅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-5","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","王美惠","張宏陸","黃捷","黃建賓","丁學忠","李柏毅","吳琪銘","許宇甄","張啓楷","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","黃健豪","黃珊珊","鍾佳濱","郭國文","高金素梅"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2025-03-24"],"gazette_id":"1143002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長、財政部就「租賃住宅市場透明化之現況及展望」進\n行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143002_00002"}}}