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{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 357.923, \"end\": 358.043, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 358.043, \"end\": 358.063, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"呂\"}, {\"word\": \"玉\", \"start\": 358.063, \"end\": 358.123, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 358.123, \"end\": 358.223, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 358.223, \"end\": 358.243, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,129 --> 00:00:11,994\n謝謝主席請郭部長好請郭部長\n\n2\n00:00:21,212 --> 00:00:38,302\n委員好部長今天我們主席特別排了這個電業法的修法就是要讓我們台電能夠在穩定的營運之下穩定供電尤其是我們民生跟產業尤其是今天會來對於這個電業法的修法是2017年\n\n3\n00:00:39,423 --> 00:01:07,665\n那時候就有要求台電在2025年要拆分為發電跟輸配電跟售電就是長網分離啦那在長網分離的情況下最主要就是讓我們整個這個電業都能夠在自由的市場自由化要讓他們自由化那在自由化的情況之下才能夠讓整個像現在已經在做的就是再生能源他們整個售電業者他們之間都已經互相在做一個交易了所以本心想請問一下\n\n4\n00:01:09,606 --> 00:01:15,253\n因為學者都在講說你們不做就是不要讓整個電業市場自由化那現在部長你要怎麼樣來讓台電在穩定的營運之下又可以做到這個電業市場能夠自由化來減少台電整個對於產業的這個市場的衝擊\n\n5\n00:01:29,051 --> 00:01:42,606\n是報告委員我們大概因為看到這個整個國際的趨勢都已經開始這個自由競爭那轉為這個強化管制跟整合因為畢竟我們的這個在台灣這麼小嘛\n\n6\n00:01:44,128 --> 00:02:12,314\n那這個資源是有限的你再把它拆開我想這整個不管在營運上面或者管理上面都會有問題不拆開怎麼樣讓這個產業自營發展那我們這個過去各國都是採用補貼啦或者設定價格上限啦那麼開徵報稅報利稅或者這個來確保這個電價的平穩但是我們要怎麼做我們當然是這個參考其他的這個國家先進國家他們的做法\n\n7\n00:02:12,814 --> 00:02:21,127\n或者來比對我們台灣自己本身的資源有多少那我想這個是比較快速的方法但我們自己內部也討論我們自己內部也討論認為\n\n8\n00:02:24,642 --> 00:02:46,803\n拆開可能那個時候的情境是適合拆開的但是現在來講以現在來講我面臨的是我現在必須要快速的讓我台電更具有競爭力所以我要用各種的方法把過去我在這個疫情期間在各種方法之下應該拿到的這個補助\n\n9\n00:02:47,924 --> 00:03:09,257\n是不是可以請大院能夠幫我們再爭取給我們這些你不能一直靠補助啦能源配比我們的能源才是最重要的我們那個是用動漲來補助我們的國人所以那個部分不是台電的責任台電要變成一個好的公司除了這個不拆開以外它必須要有穩定的財政我們要讓整個電業市場穩定的話就是要有管理機制對不對\n\n10\n00:03:13,942 --> 00:03:41,317\n要有好的管理在106年的時候我們通過修正之後的話希望這個電業法在一年後能夠開公聽會來成立一個管理的機關那現在的管理機關的話我們本身我們的電力辦公室裡面就有叫請能源署來作為這個管理機關那能源署的話上下就是你們的所屬嘛那這樣子的話有沒有求嚴兼裁判沒有辦法讓我們整個獨立出來\n\n11\n00:03:45,285 --> 00:03:55,900\n報告委員我們在這一方面管理的方面我們是採取開放的態度開放可是能源署的話你未來是不是要請這個管理機關就是能源署\n\n12\n00:03:57,270 --> 00:04:14,319\n我們當然是要先這個社會整個都在監管整個監管沒有錯我們在希望說你獨立在政府以外的機關來管理的話才有公平性跟透明才能夠適時的作為監督跟接避的方式謝謝委員這個方面我們會來進行\n\n13\n00:04:18,871 --> 00:04:27,427\n可是我們現在看到的是整個電業市場沒有辦法分離的話你們就要把管理機制一套做出來才能夠讓整個電業市場能夠穩定自由化會的你們會做到嗎會\n\n14\n00:04:32,113 --> 00:04:52,210\n那部長那尤其是說我們現在看到整個電價審議你剛剛特別講到如果漲電價這個是電價審議小組的事情可是你要看到我們剛剛幾個委員都提到了我們不能每次都拿跟韓國比韓國現在他們的平均他的電價大概都比我們多了\n\n15\n00:04:52,850 --> 00:05:07,696\n一塊錢相差一塊錢可是我們的薪資所得我們台灣大概在37K那韓國在60K也比我們比較高在不一樣的水平之下這樣子比較是不對的所以其實整個電價審議委員會會不會漲電價完全是還是有看上級長官也是部長你們這邊可以有\n\n16\n00:05:14,139 --> 00:05:42,261\n妥占性的這個給他們建議最重要還是要回歸一句話不要漲民生電價因為已經漲了這麼多了我們也給你補助了補助了500億還有給你們增資了2500億就3000億了所以歸本要處理要解決的問題還是屬於能源政策整個配比才能夠來幫助我們整個電能夠穩定的供應才是最重要的謝謝委員的協助但是我們在COVID-19那段期間一共花了6000億\n\n17\n00:05:43,945 --> 00:05:58,243\n所以我們也補了三千億給你所以我們還不足三千億不足的話我們要想辦法解決這個問題不是一直靠撥補啦我們都努力在想辦法解決這些問題對能源政策也是很重要的一個方式你要解決這個配比的問題好不好是謝謝委員好謝謝呂玉玲委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n129\t11994\t謝謝主席請郭部長好請郭部長\n21212\t38302\t委員好 部長今天我們主席特別排了這個電業法的修法就是要讓我們台電能夠在穩定的營運之下穩定供電尤其是我們民生跟產業尤其是今天會來對於這個電業法的修法是2017年\n39423\t67665\t那時候就有要求台電在2025年要拆分為發電跟輸配電跟售電就是長網分離啦那在長網分離的情況下最主要就是讓我們整個這個電業都能夠在自由的市場自由化要讓他們自由化那在自由化的情況之下才能夠讓整個像現在已經在做的就是再生能源他們整個售電業者他們之間都已經互相在做一個交易了所以本心想請問一下\n69606\t75253\t因為學者都在講說你們不做就是不要讓整個電業市場自由化那現在部長你要怎麼樣來讓台電在穩定的營運之下又可以做到這個電業市場能夠自由化來減少台電整個對於產業的這個市場的衝擊\n89051\t102606\t是 報告委員我們大概因為看到這個整個國際的趨勢都已經開始這個自由競爭那轉為這個強化管制跟整合因為畢竟我們的這個在台灣這麼小嘛\n104128\t132314\t那這個資源是有限的你再把它拆開我想這整個不管在營運上面或者管理上面都會有問題不拆開怎麼樣讓這個產業自營發展那我們這個過去各國都是採用補貼啦或者設定價格上限啦那麼開徵報稅報利稅或者這個來確保這個電價的平穩但是我們要怎麼做我們當然是這個參考其他的這個國家先進國家他們的做法\n132814\t141127\t或者來比對我們台灣自己本身的資源有多少那我想這個是比較快速的方法但我們自己內部也討論我們自己內部也討論認為\n144642\t166803\t拆開可能那個時候的情境是適合拆開的但是現在來講以現在來講我面臨的是我現在必須要快速的讓我台電更具有競爭力所以我要用各種的方法把過去我在這個疫情期間在各種方法之下應該拿到的這個補助\n167924\t189257\t是不是可以請大院能夠幫我們再爭取給我們這些你不能一直靠補助啦能源配比我們的能源才是最重要的我們那個是用動漲來補助我們的國人所以那個部分不是台電的責任台電要變成一個好的公司除了這個不拆開以外它必須要有穩定的財政我們要讓整個電業市場穩定的話就是要有管理機制對不對\n193942\t221317\t要有好的管理在106年的時候我們通過修正之後的話希望這個電業法在一年後能夠開公聽會來成立一個管理的機關那現在的管理機關的話我們本身我們的電力辦公室裡面就有叫請能源署來作為這個管理機關那能源署的話上下就是你們的所屬嘛那這樣子的話有沒有求嚴兼裁判沒有辦法讓我們整個獨立出來\n225285\t235900\t報告委員我們在這一方面管理的方面我們是採取開放的態度開放可是能源署的話你未來是不是要請這個管理機關就是能源署\n237270\t254319\t我們當然是要先這個社會整個都在監管整個監管沒有錯我們在希望說你獨立在政府以外的機關來管理的話才有公平性跟透明才能夠適時的作為監督跟接避的方式謝謝委員這個方面我們會來進行\n258871\t267427\t可是我們現在看到的是整個電業市場沒有辦法分離的話你們就要把管理機制一套做出來才能夠讓整個電業市場能夠穩定自由化會的你們會做到嗎會\n272113\t292210\t那部長那尤其是說我們現在看到整個電價審議你剛剛特別講到如果漲電價這個是電價審議小組的事情可是你要看到我們剛剛幾個委員都提到了我們不能每次都拿跟韓國比韓國現在他們的平均他的電價大概都比我們多了\n292850\t307696\t一塊錢相差一塊錢可是我們的薪資所得我們台灣大概在37K那韓國在60K也比我們比較高在不一樣的水平之下這樣子比較是不對的所以其實整個電價審議委員會會不會漲電價完全是還是有看上級長官也是部長你們這邊可以有\n314139\t342261\t妥占性的這個給他們建議最重要還是要回歸一句話不要漲民生電價因為已經漲了這麼多了我們也給你補助了 補助了500億還有給你們增資了2500億就3000億了所以歸本要處理要解決的問題還是屬於能源政策整個配比才能夠來幫助我們整個電能夠穩定的供應才是最重要的謝謝委員的協助但是我們在COVID-19那段期間一共花了6000億\n343945\t358243\t所以我們也補了三千億給你所以我們還不足三千億不足的話我們要想辦法解決這個問題不是一直靠撥補啦我們都努力在想辦法解決這些問題對 能源政策也是很重要的一個方式你要解決這個配比的問題好不好是 謝謝委員好 謝謝呂玉玲委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席請郭部長好請郭部長\n委員好 部長今天我們主席特別排了這個電業法的修法就是要讓我們台電能夠在穩定的營運之下穩定供電尤其是我們民生跟產業尤其是今天會來對於這個電業法的修法是2017年\n那時候就有要求台電在2025年要拆分為發電跟輸配電跟售電就是長網分離啦那在長網分離的情況下最主要就是讓我們整個這個電業都能夠在自由的市場自由化要讓他們自由化那在自由化的情況之下才能夠讓整個像現在已經在做的就是再生能源他們整個售電業者他們之間都已經互相在做一個交易了所以本心想請問一下\n因為學者都在講說你們不做就是不要讓整個電業市場自由化那現在部長你要怎麼樣來讓台電在穩定的營運之下又可以做到這個電業市場能夠自由化來減少台電整個對於產業的這個市場的衝擊\n是 報告委員我們大概因為看到這個整個國際的趨勢都已經開始這個自由競爭那轉為這個強化管制跟整合因為畢竟我們的這個在台灣這麼小嘛\n那這個資源是有限的你再把它拆開我想這整個不管在營運上面或者管理上面都會有問題不拆開怎麼樣讓這個產業自營發展那我們這個過去各國都是採用補貼啦或者設定價格上限啦那麼開徵報稅報利稅或者這個來確保這個電價的平穩但是我們要怎麼做我們當然是這個參考其他的這個國家先進國家他們的做法\n或者來比對我們台灣自己本身的資源有多少那我想這個是比較快速的方法但我們自己內部也討論我們自己內部也討論認為\n拆開可能那個時候的情境是適合拆開的但是現在來講以現在來講我面臨的是我現在必須要快速的讓我台電更具有競爭力所以我要用各種的方法把過去我在這個疫情期間在各種方法之下應該拿到的這個補助\n是不是可以請大院能夠幫我們再爭取給我們這些你不能一直靠補助啦能源配比我們的能源才是最重要的我們那個是用動漲來補助我們的國人所以那個部分不是台電的責任台電要變成一個好的公司除了這個不拆開以外它必須要有穩定的財政我們要讓整個電業市場穩定的話就是要有管理機制對不對\n要有好的管理在106年的時候我們通過修正之後的話希望這個電業法在一年後能夠開公聽會來成立一個管理的機關那現在的管理機關的話我們本身我們的電力辦公室裡面就有叫請能源署來作為這個管理機關那能源署的話上下就是你們的所屬嘛那這樣子的話有沒有求嚴兼裁判沒有辦法讓我們整個獨立出來\n報告委員我們在這一方面管理的方面我們是採取開放的態度開放可是能源署的話你未來是不是要請這個管理機關就是能源署\n我們當然是要先這個社會整個都在監管整個監管沒有錯我們在希望說你獨立在政府以外的機關來管理的話才有公平性跟透明才能夠適時的作為監督跟接避的方式謝謝委員這個方面我們會來進行\n可是我們現在看到的是整個電業市場沒有辦法分離的話你們就要把管理機制一套做出來才能夠讓整個電業市場能夠穩定自由化會的你們會做到嗎會\n那部長那尤其是說我們現在看到整個電價審議你剛剛特別講到如果漲電價這個是電價審議小組的事情可是你要看到我們剛剛幾個委員都提到了我們不能每次都拿跟韓國比韓國現在他們的平均他的電價大概都比我們多了\n一塊錢相差一塊錢可是我們的薪資所得我們台灣大概在37K那韓國在60K也比我們比較高在不一樣的水平之下這樣子比較是不對的所以其實整個電價審議委員會會不會漲電價完全是還是有看上級長官也是部長你們這邊可以有\n妥占性的這個給他們建議最重要還是要回歸一句話不要漲民生電價因為已經漲了這麼多了我們也給你補助了 補助了500億還有給你們增資了2500億就3000億了所以歸本要處理要解決的問題還是屬於能源政策整個配比才能夠來幫助我們整個電能夠穩定的供應才是最重要的謝謝委員的協助但是我們在COVID-19那段期間一共花了6000億\n所以我們也補了三千億給你所以我們還不足三千億不足的話我們要想辦法解決這個問題不是一直靠撥補啦我們都努力在想辦法解決這些問題對 能源政策也是很重要的一個方式你要解決這個配比的問題好不好是 謝謝委員好 謝謝呂玉玲委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.129 --> 00:11.994\n謝謝主席請郭部長好請郭部長\n\n00:21.212 --> 00:38.302\n委員好部長今天我們主席特別排了這個電業法的修法就是要讓我們台電能夠在穩定的營運之下穩定供電尤其是我們民生跟產業尤其是今天會來對於這個電業法的修法是2017年\n\n00:39.423 --> 01:07.665\n那時候就有要求台電在2025年要拆分為發電跟輸配電跟售電就是長網分離啦那在長網分離的情況下最主要就是讓我們整個這個電業都能夠在自由的市場自由化要讓他們自由化那在自由化的情況之下才能夠讓整個像現在已經在做的就是再生能源他們整個售電業者他們之間都已經互相在做一個交易了所以本心想請問一下\n\n01:09.606 --> 01:15.253\n因為學者都在講說你們不做就是不要讓整個電業市場自由化那現在部長你要怎麼樣來讓台電在穩定的營運之下又可以做到這個電業市場能夠自由化來減少台電整個對於產業的這個市場的衝擊\n\n01:29.051 --> 01:42.606\n是報告委員我們大概因為看到這個整個國際的趨勢都已經開始這個自由競爭那轉為這個強化管制跟整合因為畢竟我們的這個在台灣這麼小嘛\n\n01:44.128 --> 02:12.314\n那這個資源是有限的你再把它拆開我想這整個不管在營運上面或者管理上面都會有問題不拆開怎麼樣讓這個產業自營發展那我們這個過去各國都是採用補貼啦或者設定價格上限啦那麼開徵報稅報利稅或者這個來確保這個電價的平穩但是我們要怎麼做我們當然是這個參考其他的這個國家先進國家他們的做法\n\n02:12.814 --> 02:21.127\n或者來比對我們台灣自己本身的資源有多少那我想這個是比較快速的方法但我們自己內部也討論我們自己內部也討論認為\n\n02:24.642 --> 02:46.803\n拆開可能那個時候的情境是適合拆開的但是現在來講以現在來講我面臨的是我現在必須要快速的讓我台電更具有競爭力所以我要用各種的方法把過去我在這個疫情期間在各種方法之下應該拿到的這個補助\n\n02:47.924 --> 03:09.257\n是不是可以請大院能夠幫我們再爭取給我們這些你不能一直靠補助啦能源配比我們的能源才是最重要的我們那個是用動漲來補助我們的國人所以那個部分不是台電的責任台電要變成一個好的公司除了這個不拆開以外它必須要有穩定的財政我們要讓整個電業市場穩定的話就是要有管理機制對不對\n\n03:13.942 --> 03:41.317\n要有好的管理在106年的時候我們通過修正之後的話希望這個電業法在一年後能夠開公聽會來成立一個管理的機關那現在的管理機關的話我們本身我們的電力辦公室裡面就有叫請能源署來作為這個管理機關那能源署的話上下就是你們的所屬嘛那這樣子的話有沒有求嚴兼裁判沒有辦法讓我們整個獨立出來\n\n03:45.285 --> 03:55.900\n報告委員我們在這一方面管理的方面我們是採取開放的態度開放可是能源署的話你未來是不是要請這個管理機關就是能源署\n\n03:57.270 --> 04:14.319\n我們當然是要先這個社會整個都在監管整個監管沒有錯我們在希望說你獨立在政府以外的機關來管理的話才有公平性跟透明才能夠適時的作為監督跟接避的方式謝謝委員這個方面我們會來進行\n\n04:18.871 --> 04:27.427\n可是我們現在看到的是整個電業市場沒有辦法分離的話你們就要把管理機制一套做出來才能夠讓整個電業市場能夠穩定自由化會的你們會做到嗎會\n\n04:32.113 --> 04:52.210\n那部長那尤其是說我們現在看到整個電價審議你剛剛特別講到如果漲電價這個是電價審議小組的事情可是你要看到我們剛剛幾個委員都提到了我們不能每次都拿跟韓國比韓國現在他們的平均他的電價大概都比我們多了\n\n04:52.850 --> 05:07.696\n一塊錢相差一塊錢可是我們的薪資所得我們台灣大概在37K那韓國在60K也比我們比較高在不一樣的水平之下這樣子比較是不對的所以其實整個電價審議委員會會不會漲電價完全是還是有看上級長官也是部長你們這邊可以有\n\n05:14.139 --> 05:42.261\n妥占性的這個給他們建議最重要還是要回歸一句話不要漲民生電價因為已經漲了這麼多了我們也給你補助了補助了500億還有給你們增資了2500億就3000億了所以歸本要處理要解決的問題還是屬於能源政策整個配比才能夠來幫助我們整個電能夠穩定的供應才是最重要的謝謝委員的協助但是我們在COVID-19那段期間一共花了6000億\n\n05:43.945 --> 05:58.243\n所以我們也補了三千億給你所以我們還不足三千億不足的話我們要想辦法解決這個問題不是一直靠撥補啦我們都努力在想辦法解決這些問題對能源政策也是很重要的一個方式你要解決這個配比的問題好不好是謝謝委員好謝謝呂玉玲委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.129,"end":11.994,"text":"謝謝主席請郭部長好請郭部長"},{"start":21.212,"end":38.302,"text":"委員好 部長今天我們主席特別排了這個電業法的修法就是要讓我們台電能夠在穩定的營運之下穩定供電尤其是我們民生跟產業尤其是今天會來對於這個電業法的修法是2017年"},{"start":39.423,"end":67.665,"text":"那時候就有要求台電在2025年要拆分為發電跟輸配電跟售電就是長網分離啦那在長網分離的情況下最主要就是讓我們整個這個電業都能夠在自由的市場自由化要讓他們自由化那在自由化的情況之下才能夠讓整個像現在已經在做的就是再生能源他們整個售電業者他們之間都已經互相在做一個交易了所以本心想請問一下"},{"start":69.606,"end":75.253,"text":"因為學者都在講說你們不做就是不要讓整個電業市場自由化那現在部長你要怎麼樣來讓台電在穩定的營運之下又可以做到這個電業市場能夠自由化來減少台電整個對於產業的這個市場的衝擊"},{"start":89.051,"end":102.606,"text":"是 報告委員我們大概因為看到這個整個國際的趨勢都已經開始這個自由競爭那轉為這個強化管制跟整合因為畢竟我們的這個在台灣這麼小嘛"},{"start":104.128,"end":132.314,"text":"那這個資源是有限的你再把它拆開我想這整個不管在營運上面或者管理上面都會有問題不拆開怎麼樣讓這個產業自營發展那我們這個過去各國都是採用補貼啦或者設定價格上限啦那麼開徵報稅報利稅或者這個來確保這個電價的平穩但是我們要怎麼做我們當然是這個參考其他的這個國家先進國家他們的做法"},{"start":132.814,"end":141.127,"text":"或者來比對我們台灣自己本身的資源有多少那我想這個是比較快速的方法但我們自己內部也討論我們自己內部也討論認為"},{"start":144.642,"end":166.803,"text":"拆開可能那個時候的情境是適合拆開的但是現在來講以現在來講我面臨的是我現在必須要快速的讓我台電更具有競爭力所以我要用各種的方法把過去我在這個疫情期間在各種方法之下應該拿到的這個補助"},{"start":167.924,"end":189.257,"text":"是不是可以請大院能夠幫我們再爭取給我們這些你不能一直靠補助啦能源配比我們的能源才是最重要的我們那個是用動漲來補助我們的國人所以那個部分不是台電的責任台電要變成一個好的公司除了這個不拆開以外它必須要有穩定的財政我們要讓整個電業市場穩定的話就是要有管理機制對不對"},{"start":193.942,"end":221.317,"text":"要有好的管理在106年的時候我們通過修正之後的話希望這個電業法在一年後能夠開公聽會來成立一個管理的機關那現在的管理機關的話我們本身我們的電力辦公室裡面就有叫請能源署來作為這個管理機關那能源署的話上下就是你們的所屬嘛那這樣子的話有沒有求嚴兼裁判沒有辦法讓我們整個獨立出來"},{"start":225.285,"end":235.9,"text":"報告委員我們在這一方面管理的方面我們是採取開放的態度開放可是能源署的話你未來是不是要請這個管理機關就是能源署"},{"start":237.27,"end":254.319,"text":"我們當然是要先這個社會整個都在監管整個監管沒有錯我們在希望說你獨立在政府以外的機關來管理的話才有公平性跟透明才能夠適時的作為監督跟接避的方式謝謝委員這個方面我們會來進行"},{"start":258.871,"end":267.427,"text":"可是我們現在看到的是整個電業市場沒有辦法分離的話你們就要把管理機制一套做出來才能夠讓整個電業市場能夠穩定自由化會的你們會做到嗎會"},{"start":272.113,"end":292.21,"text":"那部長那尤其是說我們現在看到整個電價審議你剛剛特別講到如果漲電價這個是電價審議小組的事情可是你要看到我們剛剛幾個委員都提到了我們不能每次都拿跟韓國比韓國現在他們的平均他的電價大概都比我們多了"},{"start":292.85,"end":307.696,"text":"一塊錢相差一塊錢可是我們的薪資所得我們台灣大概在37K那韓國在60K也比我們比較高在不一樣的水平之下這樣子比較是不對的所以其實整個電價審議委員會會不會漲電價完全是還是有看上級長官也是部長你們這邊可以有"},{"start":314.139,"end":342.261,"text":"妥占性的這個給他們建議最重要還是要回歸一句話不要漲民生電價因為已經漲了這麼多了我們也給你補助了 補助了500億還有給你們增資了2500億就3000億了所以歸本要處理要解決的問題還是屬於能源政策整個配比才能夠來幫助我們整個電能夠穩定的供應才是最重要的謝謝委員的協助但是我們在COVID-19那段期間一共花了6000億"},{"start":343.945,"end":358.243,"text":"所以我們也補了三千億給你所以我們還不足三千億不足的話我們要想辦法解決這個問題不是一直靠撥補啦我們都努力在想辦法解決這些問題對 能源政策也是很重要的一個方式你要解決這個配比的問題好不好是 謝謝委員好 謝謝呂玉玲委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":391,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時12分）謝謝主席，請郭部長。"],["主席：好，請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，今天主席特別排了電業法的修法，就是要讓台電能夠在穩定的營運之下穩定供電，尤其是我們的民生跟產業。今天會針對電業法來進行修法，是因為在2017年修法的時候有要求台電在2025年要拆分為發電、輸配電跟售電，就是廠網分離啦。在廠網分離的情況下，最主要就是讓整個電業都能夠在自由的市場自由化，要讓他們自由化，在自由化的情況之下，才能夠讓整個……像現在已經在做的就是再生能源，整個售電業者他們之間都已經互相在做交易了。所以本席想請問一下，因為學者都在講說你們不做就是不要讓整個電業市場自由化嘛，部長，現在你要怎麼樣讓台電在穩定的營運之下，又可以做到電業市場能夠自由化，來減少台電對於整個產業及市場的衝擊，你怎麼做？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，事實上，我們是因為看到整個國際的趨勢，都已經開始由自由競爭轉為強化管制跟整合，因為畢竟臺灣就這麼小嘛，資源是有限的，你再把它拆開，我想這整個不管在營運上面或管理上面都會有一些問題。"],["呂委員玉玲：不拆開，要怎麼樣讓這個產業自由化？"],["郭部長智輝：過去各國都是採用補貼，或者設定價格上限啦，開徵暴利稅等來確保電價的平穩，但是我們要怎麼做？我們當然是參考其他國家、先進國家他們的作法，或者來比對臺灣自己本身的資源有多少，我想這個是比較快速的方法。但我們自己內部也有討論，認為拆開，可能那個時候的情境是適合拆開的，但是以現在來講，我面臨的是我現在必須要快速的讓台電更具有競爭力，所以我要用各種方法把過去在疫情期間應該拿到的補助……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，在各種方法之下……"],["郭部長智輝：是不是可以請大院能夠幫我們再爭取，給我們這2,000億元……"],["呂委員玉玲：你不能一直靠補助啦，能源配比，我們的能源才是最重要的。"],["郭部長智輝：不是，我們是用凍漲來補助我們的國人，所以那個部分不是台電的責任，台電要變成一個好的公司，除了不拆開以外，它必須要有穩定的財政。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，最重要的，我們要讓整個電業市場穩定的話，就是要有管理機制，對不對？要有好的管理，在106年時我們通過電業法修正之後，希望在一年後能夠開公聽會，來成立一個管理的機關，現在的管理機關，我們本身，我們的電力辦公室裡面就有請能源署來作為管理機關，而能源署的話，上下就是你們的所屬嘛，這樣子的話，有沒有球員兼裁判，沒有辦法讓整個獨立出來？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們在這一方面，管理的方面，我們是採取開放的態度。"],["呂委員玉玲：開放？可是能源署的話，未來的管理機關是不是就是能源署？"],["郭部長智輝：我們當然是要先……其實社會整個都在監管啊。"],["呂委員玉玲：整個監管，沒有錯，我們是希望由獨立在政府以外的機關來管理的話，才有公平性跟透明啊，才能夠適時的做好監督跟揭弊方面。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員，這方面我們會來進行。"],["呂委員玉玲：可是我們現在看到的是整個電業市場沒有辦法分離的話，你們就要把一套管理機制做出來，才能夠讓整個電業市場穩定、自由化。"],["郭部長智輝：會的。"],["呂委員玉玲：你們會做到嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：會。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，尤其是我們現在看到整個電價審議，你剛剛特別講到，如果要漲電價，這個是電價審議小組的事情，可是你要看到，剛剛幾個委員都提到了，我們不能每一次都拿韓國來相比，韓國現在他們的平均電價大概比我們多了一塊錢，相差一塊錢，可是我們的薪資所得，臺灣大概在37K，韓國則是在60K，也比我們高，在不一樣的水平之下，這樣子的比較是不對的。其實整個電價審議委員會會不會漲電價，完全還是要看上級長官，也就是部長你們這邊，可以妥善性的給他們建議。最重要的，還是要回歸一句話，不要漲民生電價，因為已經漲這麼多了，我們也給你補助了，補助了500億，還給你們增資了2,500億，加起來就3,000億了。所以歸本要處理、要解決的問題還是屬於能源政策的整個配比，才能幫助我們整個電能夠穩定的供應，才是最重要的，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員的協助，但是我們在COVID-19那段期間一共花了6,000億。"],["呂委員玉玲：我們也補了3,000億給你啊。"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們還不足3,000億。"],["呂委員玉玲：不足的話，你們要想辦法解決這個問題，不是一直靠撥補啦！"],["郭部長智輝：是，我們都努力在想辦法解決這些問題。"],["呂委員玉玲：對，能源政策也是一個很重要的方式。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["呂委員玉玲：你要解決這個配比的問題，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝呂玉玲委員。","下一位請賴瑞隆委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-4","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","陳超明","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","陳培瑜","黃國昌","葉元之","林德福","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-24"],"gazette_id":"1143101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「電業法部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員賴士葆等 17 人擬具\n「電業法第七十四條條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員林岱樺等18人擬具「電業法第六條條文修\n正草案」案；四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「電業法第六條條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員\n邱議瑩等16人擬具「電業法第六條條文修正草案」案；六、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「電業法\n部分條文修正草案」案；七、本院委員鄭正鈐等19人擬具「電業法第七十四條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1143101_00001"}}}