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{\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,370 --> 00:00:07,612\n最近媒體上常常在講你們要修正因為大法庭對於強制執行\n\n2\n00:00:17,555 --> 00:00:45,572\n這個法律見解所以你們要修改保險法那我看到那個媒體上面的報導說你們基本上每張保單保留各地區的生活費基本生活費三個月這樣的額度以這樣的額度超過了才去進行強制執行可是我們這個執行也要有那個成本的概念\n\n3\n00:00:47,315 --> 00:01:01,991\n你媒體裡面講說你可以分為戶籍所在地住所地然後還可以工作地都在跨不同的縣市的時候那變成不同的標準這樣勞費實在太大了我們應該要化繁為簡\n\n4\n00:01:03,593 --> 00:01:23,351\n我要提一個idea給你思考就以全國生活費用最高的地方三個月以這個做標準假設全國最高的基本生活費是在台北市的話那就以台北市基本生活費的三個月的標準全國都一致\n\n5\n00:01:24,292 --> 00:01:51,056\n那這樣全國的法院就很清楚的了解到這個法律的標準在哪裡而不是說以生活地、以工作地、以戶籍地都可以來挑一個對債務人最有利然後就每個個案光是這個就要進入有沒有到達什麼範圍的增值這個太浪費了不知道這個你來考慮看看這個適不可行\n\n6\n00:01:51,836 --> 00:02:10,322\n謝謝委員,我想上個禮拜公聽會的時候,因為我有另一位沒有參與,不過我仔細的聆聽了各界對這個的看法,誠如剛才委員所指正的,就是說這次的修改保險法,我們是被動的修法,是因為已經衍生了很多的問題,我們必須要去解決這問題。\n\n7\n00:02:11,903 --> 00:02:39,752\n不過在我的印象裡我在保險市場已經快40年的時間我們過去的保險契約一直都不會構成強制執行的問題的標的但是111年以後大法庭的解釋當然就湧出了這麼大的問題所以金管會責無旁貸必須要透過立法來解決這問題我們在這次的修法草案裡面呢剛剛委員的指證就是這個建議其實我們就思考了三個非常重要的原則來做這個修法第一個社會成本\n\n8\n00:02:40,572 --> 00:02:59,121\n我們一定要用最低的社會成本來解決這問題第二個就是我們要公平的看待債權跟債務人的關係第三個也很重要就是我們要確保保險安定社會的功能能夠繼續的維持這三個是我們在考慮的所以說我們在這裡面我們剛剛委員的建議我覺得是可以來思考因為當時我們會訂這個法案的這樣內容是我們是\n\n9\n00:03:02,583 --> 00:03:22,970\n因為認為說過去如果訂一個固定的金額可能會隨著時間經過會產生一些變化那我們就是依循那個強制執行法的概念來用這個當然它背後有一套解決的方法剛剛委員也提到了它有主要生活區域、戶籍地如果再加上保單還有一個邀保人的住所\n\n10\n00:03:23,730 --> 00:03:50,573\n這些都是一個非常非常難判斷當然司法院有他一套的解決方法我覺得委員這個想法說不定我們可以來思考司法院有解決方法我們了解啊但是我舉一個例子假設我是被強制執行的債務人那我又主張我的戶籍地在新北而我生活工作地在台北那假設我還有其他的地方那關於我這個主張債權人就可以說不行喔你不能用台北市你要用新北市的\n\n11\n00:03:51,613 --> 00:04:20,652\n那就又要進入個案的認定在強制執行中間其實不需要這麼多的認定因為這樣子會增加很多的債務人意之數還會增加很多的這個程序上面的這些的攻防所以我是覺得抓一個一致的標準那抓一個一致的標準當然以全國為之因為台灣現在已經是一日生活圈了你要說台北市三個月大概是7萬多然後這個南部大概是5萬東部可能剩下4萬多\n\n12\n00:04:21,733 --> 00:04:50,326\n我覺得這樣子光是為了說你應該這個債權人應該是在算在東部還是在算在北部還是北部的台北市還是新北市個案你都去逐一認定那如果大家意見不一樣的時候就再另外一個訴訟那這個是整個社會的勞費會增加很多我們應該要考慮司法也有成本啊我們做這些執行也有成本那讓這個投保人將來也可以很清楚的了解說哪一些保險\n\n13\n00:04:51,567 --> 00:05:12,065\n如果你的保險的產值是超過這個金額是會被可能會被強制執行如果你有債務的話那這樣子是比較減省的啦是我說劃減為凡啦對確實像我剛剛提到如何以最低的社會成本執行這樣的一個效益我想剛剛那個建議我們會回來思考好謝謝那第二個就是\n\n14\n00:05:13,715 --> 00:05:40,168\n我們過去這些年在中國的曝險大家都是計算國營國家的銀行在中國的曝險金額是逐年下降有定一個標準這個逐年下降是可喜可樂因為要在不穩定的地方當然你那個風險高的地方盡量曝險要少一點可是我覺得那個計算有很多的黑數以前最被常提出來的黑數就是影子銀行\n\n15\n00:05:41,429 --> 00:06:07,618\n這租賃公司他的付錢你沒有辦法計算在這裡面那你未來租賃公司的納管會越來越嚴格嘛再來就是國營如果他的分行那有統計進來放款有統計進來但是那紙行就漏掉了因為他是依照中國的法令在中國的紙行但是他其實的大股東母公司是國營那那個也統計不到\n\n16\n00:06:09,179 --> 00:06:20,845\n有沒有什麼辦法因為一切的政策的考量要從事實的調查做基礎有沒有辦法把台灣在中國的曝險更清楚更明確的算出來\n\n17\n00:06:22,387 --> 00:06:42,364\n有沒有打算往這個方向來努力?我上次委員在詢問這個問題的時候我們大概那個曝險大概18.5%現在大概降到18%大概又在持續的下降中當然剛剛委員有指證說我們還有其他業態的公司在那邊也有類似做一些獸性的類似獸性的業務我們也持續在關注\n\n18\n00:06:46,407 --> 00:07:15,285\n剛剛就是確實沒有錯我們現在的法令規定說我們現在國營的曝險不可以超過他淨值的一倍那現在大部分的國營剛剛講那個18就是只有占我們淨值的18全體平均當然我們的算法有分子行跟分行的算法分行的話就是用他的壽信同業拆借還有就是他們就是這些的投資但是我們對子行的算法是以他的投資金額為主就投資額為主這兩個標準是有點差異所以我們現在也\n\n19\n00:07:16,245 --> 00:07:38,951\n會來考慮說怎麼樣從實質衡量曝險的角度我們會重新來做一個盤點對因為這個數字如果精確我們在做一些金融政策上面的時候能夠比較了解真正的狀況是怎麼樣比較接近真實所以這方面要努力再來就是明年一個大課題就是要接這個IFRS17的消耗公報\n\n20\n00:07:40,271 --> 00:07:55,463\n這個目前前兩年是保險業都有提出一些他們不一樣的看法或他有困難啊怎麼樣的難題希望你們能夠暫緩或是給他協力解決這一些這近半年多來這個聲音減少了那減少是因為我們的\n\n21\n00:07:56,664 --> 00:08:09,965\n越來越了解呢協助有成呢還是有什麼其他的因素我這最近比較少聽到這樣子的聲音那個其實沒有新聞就是好新聞嘛就是一樣其實我覺得這個東西就這套制度剛開始實施的時候台灣的利率還是處於低檔\n\n22\n00:08:11,087 --> 00:08:34,629\n那我們現在呢,因為現在利率大家都知道比以前提高了我們保險業最大的一個負債科目就是受到利率的影響我們利率的假設現在提高了所以大家在這個未來接軌iPhone17的時候呢本來就是它在那個負債的提高本來就是會減輕那當然經過主管機關在這麼多年來不斷的強化做所謂的商品體質的改變\n\n23\n00:08:35,470 --> 00:08:47,688\n他們現在累積了很多商品的轉型其實未來在接軌日那個主力確實小很多其實像陳儒剛才委員所指正的確實我們在這部分在我們現在所有的監控過程當中都非常順利\n\n24\n00:08:48,925 --> 00:09:14,291\n那你譬如說你今天的報告一開始說去年這個各行各金融業這三大行業賺了多少錢這裡面有包括匯差嗎譬如說我在保險公司在美國資產那投資的金額那本來用美金換算那這幾年來台幣是貶值啊所以你再換算成台幣回來的話它就帳面上就增加了很多啊這個有算在這裡面嗎這個我們就是\n\n25\n00:09:15,191 --> 00:09:40,029\n我剛才報告的這個損益數字是財報的損益數字就依據我們現在的會計準則所計算出來的損益數字所以有的有放有的沒放當然會計損益裡面是把匯率的那部分是它的實現跟已實現收入都有考慮在內對那你要知道因為匯率跟這個利率都是不確定的東西改天換台幣升值的時候那是不是就又挨天\n\n26\n00:09:41,314 --> 00:10:05,805\n有時候遇到多的虧損就跑出來啊確實其實我覺得財報的特性就是它是一個中性的它今天的比如說整個經濟環境的波動有時候好有時候壞本來就是它忠實的反映它的真實的狀況所以我也常跟保險院的在提醒今年獲益好其實也不要說就這樣其實也隱含著未來這個波動性\n\n27\n00:10:07,006 --> 00:10:29,265\n有的時候多賺錢是因為剛好就是這個政策的時機問題還是時間點的問題所以不能我們台語在說好天要積福來牛不能每天想說天天都是好天氣非常同意另外就是說你剛剛提到說因為利率是保險業一個很重要的東西利率也是一樣的狀況也是會升降\n\n28\n00:10:29,825 --> 00:10:42,762\n但是如果你擴大能夠在台灣有投資的管道的話至少避險的這一部分的成本可以降低一些啦我們已經採取一些措施來去降低他們的那個避險成本好這我們需要去努力了加油謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝委員的質詢下一位請你袁寬文委員質詢請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1370\t7612\t最近媒體上常常在講你們要修正因為大法庭對於強制執行\n17555\t45572\t這個法律見解所以你們要修改保險法那我看到那個媒體上面的報導說你們基本上每張保單保留各地區的生活費基本生活費三個月這樣的額度以這樣的額度超過了才去進行強制執行可是我們這個執行也要有那個成本的概念\n47315\t61991\t你媒體裡面講說你可以分為戶籍所在地住所地然後還可以工作地都在跨不同的縣市的時候那變成不同的標準這樣勞費實在太大了我們應該要化繁為簡\n63593\t83351\t我要提一個idea給你思考就以全國生活費用最高的地方三個月以這個做標準假設全國最高的基本生活費是在台北市的話那就以台北市基本生活費的三個月的標準全國都一致\n84292\t111056\t那這樣全國的法院就很清楚的了解到這個法律的標準在哪裡而不是說以生活地、以工作地、以戶籍地都可以來挑一個對債務人最有利然後就每個個案光是這個就要進入有沒有到達什麼範圍的增值這個太浪費了不知道這個你來考慮看看這個適不可行\n111836\t130322\t謝謝委員,我想上個禮拜公聽會的時候,因為我有另一位沒有參與,不過我仔細的聆聽了各界對這個的看法,誠如剛才委員所指正的,就是說這次的修改保險法,我們是被動的修法,是因為已經衍生了很多的問題,我們必須要去解決這問題。\n131903\t159752\t不過在我的印象裡我在保險市場已經快40年的時間我們過去的保險契約一直都不會構成強制執行的問題的標的但是111年以後大法庭的解釋當然就湧出了這麼大的問題所以金管會責無旁貸必須要透過立法來解決這問題我們在這次的修法草案裡面呢剛剛委員的指證就是這個建議其實我們就思考了三個非常重要的原則來做這個修法第一個社會成本\n160572\t179121\t我們一定要用最低的社會成本來解決這問題第二個就是我們要公平的看待債權跟債務人的關係第三個也很重要就是我們要確保保險安定社會的功能能夠繼續的維持這三個是我們在考慮的所以說我們在這裡面我們剛剛委員的建議我覺得是可以來思考因為當時我們會訂這個法案的這樣內容是我們是\n182583\t202970\t因為認為說過去如果訂一個固定的金額可能會隨著時間經過會產生一些變化那我們就是依循那個強制執行法的概念來用這個當然它背後有一套解決的方法剛剛委員也提到了它有主要生活區域、戶籍地如果再加上保單還有一個邀保人的住所\n203730\t230573\t這些都是一個非常非常難判斷當然司法院有他一套的解決方法我覺得委員這個想法說不定我們可以來思考司法院有解決方法我們了解啊但是我舉一個例子假設我是被強制執行的債務人那我又主張我的戶籍地在新北而我生活工作地在台北那假設我還有其他的地方那關於我這個主張債權人就可以說不行喔你不能用台北市你要用新北市的\n231613\t260652\t那就又要進入個案的認定在強制執行中間其實不需要這麼多的認定因為這樣子會增加很多的債務人意之數還會增加很多的這個程序上面的這些的攻防所以我是覺得抓一個一致的標準那抓一個一致的標準當然以全國為之因為台灣現在已經是一日生活圈了你要說台北市三個月大概是7萬多然後這個南部大概是5萬東部可能剩下4萬多\n261733\t290326\t我覺得這樣子光是為了說你應該這個債權人應該是在算在東部還是在算在北部還是北部的台北市還是新北市個案你都去逐一認定那如果大家意見不一樣的時候就再另外一個訴訟那這個是整個社會的勞費會增加很多我們應該要考慮司法也有成本啊我們做這些執行也有成本那讓這個投保人將來也可以很清楚的了解說哪一些保險\n291567\t312065\t如果你的保險的產值是超過這個金額是會被可能會被強制執行如果你有債務的話那這樣子是比較減省的啦是我說劃減為凡啦對確實像我剛剛提到如何以最低的社會成本執行這樣的一個效益我想剛剛那個建議我們會回來思考好謝謝那第二個就是\n313715\t340168\t我們過去這些年在中國的曝險大家都是計算國營國家的銀行在中國的曝險金額是逐年下降有定一個標準這個逐年下降是可喜可樂因為要在不穩定的地方當然你那個風險高的地方盡量曝險要少一點可是我覺得那個計算有很多的黑數以前最被常提出來的黑數就是影子銀行\n341429\t367618\t這租賃公司他的付錢你沒有辦法計算在這裡面那你未來租賃公司的納管會越來越嚴格嘛再來就是國營如果他的分行那有統計進來 放款有統計進來但是那紙行就漏掉了因為他是依照中國的法令在中國的紙行但是他其實的大股東母公司是國營那那個也統計不到\n369179\t380845\t有沒有什麼辦法因為一切的政策的考量要從事實的調查做基礎有沒有辦法把台灣在中國的曝險更清楚更明確的算出來\n382387\t402364\t有沒有打算往這個方向來努力?我上次委員在詢問這個問題的時候我們大概那個曝險大概18.5%現在大概降到18%大概又在持續的下降中當然剛剛委員有指證說我們還有其他業態的公司在那邊也有類似做一些獸性的類似獸性的業務我們也持續在關注\n406407\t435285\t剛剛就是確實沒有錯我們現在的法令規定說我們現在國營的曝險不可以超過他淨值的一倍那現在大部分的國營剛剛講那個18就是只有占我們淨值的18全體平均當然我們的算法有分子行跟分行的算法分行的話就是用他的壽信同業拆借還有就是他們就是這些的投資但是我們對子行的算法是以他的投資金額為主就投資額為主這兩個標準是有點差異所以我們現在也\n436245\t458951\t會來考慮說怎麼樣從實質衡量曝險的角度我們會重新來做一個盤點對 因為這個數字如果精確我們在做一些金融政策上面的時候能夠比較了解真正的狀況是怎麼樣比較接近真實所以這方面要努力再來就是明年一個大課題就是要接這個IFRS17的消耗公報\n460271\t475463\t這個目前前兩年是保險業都有提出一些他們不一樣的看法或他有困難啊怎麼樣的難題希望你們能夠暫緩或是給他協力解決這一些這近半年多來這個聲音減少了那減少是因為我們的\n476664\t489965\t越來越了解呢協助有成呢還是有什麼其他的因素我這最近比較少聽到這樣子的聲音那個其實沒有新聞就是好新聞嘛就是一樣其實我覺得這個東西就這套制度剛開始實施的時候台灣的利率還是處於低檔\n491087\t514629\t那我們現在呢,因為現在利率大家都知道比以前提高了我們保險業最大的一個負債科目就是受到利率的影響我們利率的假設現在提高了所以大家在這個未來接軌iPhone 17的時候呢本來就是它在那個負債的提高本來就是會減輕那當然經過主管機關在這麼多年來不斷的強化做所謂的商品體質的改變\n515470\t527688\t他們現在累積了很多商品的轉型其實未來在接軌日那個主力確實小很多其實像陳儒剛才委員所指正的確實我們在這部分在我們現在所有的監控過程當中都非常順利\n528925\t554291\t那你譬如說你今天的報告一開始說去年這個各行各金融業這三大行業賺了多少錢這裡面有包括匯差嗎譬如說我在保險公司在美國資產那投資的金額那本來用美金換算那這幾年來台幣是貶值啊所以你再換算成台幣回來的話它就帳面上就增加了很多啊這個有算在這裡面嗎這個我們就是\n555191\t580029\t我剛才報告的這個損益數字是財報的損益數字就依據我們現在的會計準則所計算出來的損益數字所以有的有放有的沒放當然會計損益裡面是把匯率的那部分是它的實現跟已實現收入都有考慮在內對那你要知道因為匯率跟這個利率都是不確定的東西改天換台幣升值的時候那是不是就又挨天\n581314\t605805\t有時候遇到多的虧損就跑出來啊確實其實我覺得財報的特性就是它是一個中性的它今天的比如說整個經濟環境的波動有時候好有時候壞本來就是它忠實的反映它的真實的狀況所以我也常跟保險院的在提醒今年獲益好其實也不要說就這樣其實也隱含著未來這個波動性\n607006\t629265\t有的時候多賺錢是因為剛好就是這個政策的時機問題還是時間點的問題所以不能我們台語在說好天要積福來牛不能每天想說天天都是好天氣非常同意另外就是說你剛剛提到說因為利率是保險業一個很重要的東西利率也是一樣的狀況也是會升降\n629825\t642762\t但是如果你擴大能夠在台灣有投資的管道的話至少避險的這一部分的成本可以降低一些啦我們已經採取一些措施來去降低他們的那個避險成本好 這我們需要去努力了加油謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝委員的質詢 下一位請你袁寬文委員質詢 請\n","txt":"最近媒體上常常在講你們要修正因為大法庭對於強制執行\n這個法律見解所以你們要修改保險法那我看到那個媒體上面的報導說你們基本上每張保單保留各地區的生活費基本生活費三個月這樣的額度以這樣的額度超過了才去進行強制執行可是我們這個執行也要有那個成本的概念\n你媒體裡面講說你可以分為戶籍所在地住所地然後還可以工作地都在跨不同的縣市的時候那變成不同的標準這樣勞費實在太大了我們應該要化繁為簡\n我要提一個idea給你思考就以全國生活費用最高的地方三個月以這個做標準假設全國最高的基本生活費是在台北市的話那就以台北市基本生活費的三個月的標準全國都一致\n那這樣全國的法院就很清楚的了解到這個法律的標準在哪裡而不是說以生活地、以工作地、以戶籍地都可以來挑一個對債務人最有利然後就每個個案光是這個就要進入有沒有到達什麼範圍的增值這個太浪費了不知道這個你來考慮看看這個適不可行\n謝謝委員,我想上個禮拜公聽會的時候,因為我有另一位沒有參與,不過我仔細的聆聽了各界對這個的看法,誠如剛才委員所指正的,就是說這次的修改保險法,我們是被動的修法,是因為已經衍生了很多的問題,我們必須要去解決這問題。\n不過在我的印象裡我在保險市場已經快40年的時間我們過去的保險契約一直都不會構成強制執行的問題的標的但是111年以後大法庭的解釋當然就湧出了這麼大的問題所以金管會責無旁貸必須要透過立法來解決這問題我們在這次的修法草案裡面呢剛剛委員的指證就是這個建議其實我們就思考了三個非常重要的原則來做這個修法第一個社會成本\n我們一定要用最低的社會成本來解決這問題第二個就是我們要公平的看待債權跟債務人的關係第三個也很重要就是我們要確保保險安定社會的功能能夠繼續的維持這三個是我們在考慮的所以說我們在這裡面我們剛剛委員的建議我覺得是可以來思考因為當時我們會訂這個法案的這樣內容是我們是\n因為認為說過去如果訂一個固定的金額可能會隨著時間經過會產生一些變化那我們就是依循那個強制執行法的概念來用這個當然它背後有一套解決的方法剛剛委員也提到了它有主要生活區域、戶籍地如果再加上保單還有一個邀保人的住所\n這些都是一個非常非常難判斷當然司法院有他一套的解決方法我覺得委員這個想法說不定我們可以來思考司法院有解決方法我們了解啊但是我舉一個例子假設我是被強制執行的債務人那我又主張我的戶籍地在新北而我生活工作地在台北那假設我還有其他的地方那關於我這個主張債權人就可以說不行喔你不能用台北市你要用新北市的\n那就又要進入個案的認定在強制執行中間其實不需要這麼多的認定因為這樣子會增加很多的債務人意之數還會增加很多的這個程序上面的這些的攻防所以我是覺得抓一個一致的標準那抓一個一致的標準當然以全國為之因為台灣現在已經是一日生活圈了你要說台北市三個月大概是7萬多然後這個南部大概是5萬東部可能剩下4萬多\n我覺得這樣子光是為了說你應該這個債權人應該是在算在東部還是在算在北部還是北部的台北市還是新北市個案你都去逐一認定那如果大家意見不一樣的時候就再另外一個訴訟那這個是整個社會的勞費會增加很多我們應該要考慮司法也有成本啊我們做這些執行也有成本那讓這個投保人將來也可以很清楚的了解說哪一些保險\n如果你的保險的產值是超過這個金額是會被可能會被強制執行如果你有債務的話那這樣子是比較減省的啦是我說劃減為凡啦對確實像我剛剛提到如何以最低的社會成本執行這樣的一個效益我想剛剛那個建議我們會回來思考好謝謝那第二個就是\n我們過去這些年在中國的曝險大家都是計算國營國家的銀行在中國的曝險金額是逐年下降有定一個標準這個逐年下降是可喜可樂因為要在不穩定的地方當然你那個風險高的地方盡量曝險要少一點可是我覺得那個計算有很多的黑數以前最被常提出來的黑數就是影子銀行\n這租賃公司他的付錢你沒有辦法計算在這裡面那你未來租賃公司的納管會越來越嚴格嘛再來就是國營如果他的分行那有統計進來 放款有統計進來但是那紙行就漏掉了因為他是依照中國的法令在中國的紙行但是他其實的大股東母公司是國營那那個也統計不到\n有沒有什麼辦法因為一切的政策的考量要從事實的調查做基礎有沒有辦法把台灣在中國的曝險更清楚更明確的算出來\n有沒有打算往這個方向來努力?我上次委員在詢問這個問題的時候我們大概那個曝險大概18.5%現在大概降到18%大概又在持續的下降中當然剛剛委員有指證說我們還有其他業態的公司在那邊也有類似做一些獸性的類似獸性的業務我們也持續在關注\n剛剛就是確實沒有錯我們現在的法令規定說我們現在國營的曝險不可以超過他淨值的一倍那現在大部分的國營剛剛講那個18就是只有占我們淨值的18全體平均當然我們的算法有分子行跟分行的算法分行的話就是用他的壽信同業拆借還有就是他們就是這些的投資但是我們對子行的算法是以他的投資金額為主就投資額為主這兩個標準是有點差異所以我們現在也\n會來考慮說怎麼樣從實質衡量曝險的角度我們會重新來做一個盤點對 因為這個數字如果精確我們在做一些金融政策上面的時候能夠比較了解真正的狀況是怎麼樣比較接近真實所以這方面要努力再來就是明年一個大課題就是要接這個IFRS17的消耗公報\n這個目前前兩年是保險業都有提出一些他們不一樣的看法或他有困難啊怎麼樣的難題希望你們能夠暫緩或是給他協力解決這一些這近半年多來這個聲音減少了那減少是因為我們的\n越來越了解呢協助有成呢還是有什麼其他的因素我這最近比較少聽到這樣子的聲音那個其實沒有新聞就是好新聞嘛就是一樣其實我覺得這個東西就這套制度剛開始實施的時候台灣的利率還是處於低檔\n那我們現在呢,因為現在利率大家都知道比以前提高了我們保險業最大的一個負債科目就是受到利率的影響我們利率的假設現在提高了所以大家在這個未來接軌iPhone 17的時候呢本來就是它在那個負債的提高本來就是會減輕那當然經過主管機關在這麼多年來不斷的強化做所謂的商品體質的改變\n他們現在累積了很多商品的轉型其實未來在接軌日那個主力確實小很多其實像陳儒剛才委員所指正的確實我們在這部分在我們現在所有的監控過程當中都非常順利\n那你譬如說你今天的報告一開始說去年這個各行各金融業這三大行業賺了多少錢這裡面有包括匯差嗎譬如說我在保險公司在美國資產那投資的金額那本來用美金換算那這幾年來台幣是貶值啊所以你再換算成台幣回來的話它就帳面上就增加了很多啊這個有算在這裡面嗎這個我們就是\n我剛才報告的這個損益數字是財報的損益數字就依據我們現在的會計準則所計算出來的損益數字所以有的有放有的沒放當然會計損益裡面是把匯率的那部分是它的實現跟已實現收入都有考慮在內對那你要知道因為匯率跟這個利率都是不確定的東西改天換台幣升值的時候那是不是就又挨天\n有時候遇到多的虧損就跑出來啊確實其實我覺得財報的特性就是它是一個中性的它今天的比如說整個經濟環境的波動有時候好有時候壞本來就是它忠實的反映它的真實的狀況所以我也常跟保險院的在提醒今年獲益好其實也不要說就這樣其實也隱含著未來這個波動性\n有的時候多賺錢是因為剛好就是這個政策的時機問題還是時間點的問題所以不能我們台語在說好天要積福來牛不能每天想說天天都是好天氣非常同意另外就是說你剛剛提到說因為利率是保險業一個很重要的東西利率也是一樣的狀況也是會升降\n但是如果你擴大能夠在台灣有投資的管道的話至少避險的這一部分的成本可以降低一些啦我們已經採取一些措施來去降低他們的那個避險成本好 這我們需要去努力了加油謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝委員的質詢 下一位請你袁寬文委員質詢 請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.370 --> 00:07.612\n最近媒體上常常在講你們要修正因為大法庭對於強制執行\n\n00:17.555 --> 00:45.572\n這個法律見解所以你們要修改保險法那我看到那個媒體上面的報導說你們基本上每張保單保留各地區的生活費基本生活費三個月這樣的額度以這樣的額度超過了才去進行強制執行可是我們這個執行也要有那個成本的概念\n\n00:47.315 --> 01:01.991\n你媒體裡面講說你可以分為戶籍所在地住所地然後還可以工作地都在跨不同的縣市的時候那變成不同的標準這樣勞費實在太大了我們應該要化繁為簡\n\n01:03.593 --> 01:23.351\n我要提一個idea給你思考就以全國生活費用最高的地方三個月以這個做標準假設全國最高的基本生活費是在台北市的話那就以台北市基本生活費的三個月的標準全國都一致\n\n01:24.292 --> 01:51.056\n那這樣全國的法院就很清楚的了解到這個法律的標準在哪裡而不是說以生活地、以工作地、以戶籍地都可以來挑一個對債務人最有利然後就每個個案光是這個就要進入有沒有到達什麼範圍的增值這個太浪費了不知道這個你來考慮看看這個適不可行\n\n01:51.836 --> 02:10.322\n謝謝委員,我想上個禮拜公聽會的時候,因為我有另一位沒有參與,不過我仔細的聆聽了各界對這個的看法,誠如剛才委員所指正的,就是說這次的修改保險法,我們是被動的修法,是因為已經衍生了很多的問題,我們必須要去解決這問題。\n\n02:11.903 --> 02:39.752\n不過在我的印象裡我在保險市場已經快40年的時間我們過去的保險契約一直都不會構成強制執行的問題的標的但是111年以後大法庭的解釋當然就湧出了這麼大的問題所以金管會責無旁貸必須要透過立法來解決這問題我們在這次的修法草案裡面呢剛剛委員的指證就是這個建議其實我們就思考了三個非常重要的原則來做這個修法第一個社會成本\n\n02:40.572 --> 02:59.121\n我們一定要用最低的社會成本來解決這問題第二個就是我們要公平的看待債權跟債務人的關係第三個也很重要就是我們要確保保險安定社會的功能能夠繼續的維持這三個是我們在考慮的所以說我們在這裡面我們剛剛委員的建議我覺得是可以來思考因為當時我們會訂這個法案的這樣內容是我們是\n\n03:02.583 --> 03:22.970\n因為認為說過去如果訂一個固定的金額可能會隨著時間經過會產生一些變化那我們就是依循那個強制執行法的概念來用這個當然它背後有一套解決的方法剛剛委員也提到了它有主要生活區域、戶籍地如果再加上保單還有一個邀保人的住所\n\n03:23.730 --> 03:50.573\n這些都是一個非常非常難判斷當然司法院有他一套的解決方法我覺得委員這個想法說不定我們可以來思考司法院有解決方法我們了解啊但是我舉一個例子假設我是被強制執行的債務人那我又主張我的戶籍地在新北而我生活工作地在台北那假設我還有其他的地方那關於我這個主張債權人就可以說不行喔你不能用台北市你要用新北市的\n\n03:51.613 --> 04:20.652\n那就又要進入個案的認定在強制執行中間其實不需要這麼多的認定因為這樣子會增加很多的債務人意之數還會增加很多的這個程序上面的這些的攻防所以我是覺得抓一個一致的標準那抓一個一致的標準當然以全國為之因為台灣現在已經是一日生活圈了你要說台北市三個月大概是7萬多然後這個南部大概是5萬東部可能剩下4萬多\n\n04:21.733 --> 04:50.326\n我覺得這樣子光是為了說你應該這個債權人應該是在算在東部還是在算在北部還是北部的台北市還是新北市個案你都去逐一認定那如果大家意見不一樣的時候就再另外一個訴訟那這個是整個社會的勞費會增加很多我們應該要考慮司法也有成本啊我們做這些執行也有成本那讓這個投保人將來也可以很清楚的了解說哪一些保險\n\n04:51.567 --> 05:12.065\n如果你的保險的產值是超過這個金額是會被可能會被強制執行如果你有債務的話那這樣子是比較減省的啦是我說劃減為凡啦對確實像我剛剛提到如何以最低的社會成本執行這樣的一個效益我想剛剛那個建議我們會回來思考好謝謝那第二個就是\n\n05:13.715 --> 05:40.168\n我們過去這些年在中國的曝險大家都是計算國營國家的銀行在中國的曝險金額是逐年下降有定一個標準這個逐年下降是可喜可樂因為要在不穩定的地方當然你那個風險高的地方盡量曝險要少一點可是我覺得那個計算有很多的黑數以前最被常提出來的黑數就是影子銀行\n\n05:41.429 --> 06:07.618\n這租賃公司他的付錢你沒有辦法計算在這裡面那你未來租賃公司的納管會越來越嚴格嘛再來就是國營如果他的分行那有統計進來放款有統計進來但是那紙行就漏掉了因為他是依照中國的法令在中國的紙行但是他其實的大股東母公司是國營那那個也統計不到\n\n06:09.179 --> 06:20.845\n有沒有什麼辦法因為一切的政策的考量要從事實的調查做基礎有沒有辦法把台灣在中國的曝險更清楚更明確的算出來\n\n06:22.387 --> 06:42.364\n有沒有打算往這個方向來努力?我上次委員在詢問這個問題的時候我們大概那個曝險大概18.5%現在大概降到18%大概又在持續的下降中當然剛剛委員有指證說我們還有其他業態的公司在那邊也有類似做一些獸性的類似獸性的業務我們也持續在關注\n\n06:46.407 --> 07:15.285\n剛剛就是確實沒有錯我們現在的法令規定說我們現在國營的曝險不可以超過他淨值的一倍那現在大部分的國營剛剛講那個18就是只有占我們淨值的18全體平均當然我們的算法有分子行跟分行的算法分行的話就是用他的壽信同業拆借還有就是他們就是這些的投資但是我們對子行的算法是以他的投資金額為主就投資額為主這兩個標準是有點差異所以我們現在也\n\n07:16.245 --> 07:38.951\n會來考慮說怎麼樣從實質衡量曝險的角度我們會重新來做一個盤點對因為這個數字如果精確我們在做一些金融政策上面的時候能夠比較了解真正的狀況是怎麼樣比較接近真實所以這方面要努力再來就是明年一個大課題就是要接這個IFRS17的消耗公報\n\n07:40.271 --> 07:55.463\n這個目前前兩年是保險業都有提出一些他們不一樣的看法或他有困難啊怎麼樣的難題希望你們能夠暫緩或是給他協力解決這一些這近半年多來這個聲音減少了那減少是因為我們的\n\n07:56.664 --> 08:09.965\n越來越了解呢協助有成呢還是有什麼其他的因素我這最近比較少聽到這樣子的聲音那個其實沒有新聞就是好新聞嘛就是一樣其實我覺得這個東西就這套制度剛開始實施的時候台灣的利率還是處於低檔\n\n08:11.087 --> 08:34.629\n那我們現在呢,因為現在利率大家都知道比以前提高了我們保險業最大的一個負債科目就是受到利率的影響我們利率的假設現在提高了所以大家在這個未來接軌iPhone17的時候呢本來就是它在那個負債的提高本來就是會減輕那當然經過主管機關在這麼多年來不斷的強化做所謂的商品體質的改變\n\n08:35.470 --> 08:47.688\n他們現在累積了很多商品的轉型其實未來在接軌日那個主力確實小很多其實像陳儒剛才委員所指正的確實我們在這部分在我們現在所有的監控過程當中都非常順利\n\n08:48.925 --> 09:14.291\n那你譬如說你今天的報告一開始說去年這個各行各金融業這三大行業賺了多少錢這裡面有包括匯差嗎譬如說我在保險公司在美國資產那投資的金額那本來用美金換算那這幾年來台幣是貶值啊所以你再換算成台幣回來的話它就帳面上就增加了很多啊這個有算在這裡面嗎這個我們就是\n\n09:15.191 --> 09:40.029\n我剛才報告的這個損益數字是財報的損益數字就依據我們現在的會計準則所計算出來的損益數字所以有的有放有的沒放當然會計損益裡面是把匯率的那部分是它的實現跟已實現收入都有考慮在內對那你要知道因為匯率跟這個利率都是不確定的東西改天換台幣升值的時候那是不是就又挨天\n\n09:41.314 --> 10:05.805\n有時候遇到多的虧損就跑出來啊確實其實我覺得財報的特性就是它是一個中性的它今天的比如說整個經濟環境的波動有時候好有時候壞本來就是它忠實的反映它的真實的狀況所以我也常跟保險院的在提醒今年獲益好其實也不要說就這樣其實也隱含著未來這個波動性\n\n10:07.006 --> 10:29.265\n有的時候多賺錢是因為剛好就是這個政策的時機問題還是時間點的問題所以不能我們台語在說好天要積福來牛不能每天想說天天都是好天氣非常同意另外就是說你剛剛提到說因為利率是保險業一個很重要的東西利率也是一樣的狀況也是會升降\n\n10:29.825 --> 10:42.762\n但是如果你擴大能夠在台灣有投資的管道的話至少避險的這一部分的成本可以降低一些啦我們已經採取一些措施來去降低他們的那個避險成本好這我們需要去努力了加油謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝委員的質詢下一位請你袁寬文委員質詢請\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.37,"end":7.612,"text":"最近媒體上常常在講你們要修正因為大法庭對於強制執行"},{"start":17.555,"end":45.572,"text":"這個法律見解所以你們要修改保險法那我看到那個媒體上面的報導說你們基本上每張保單保留各地區的生活費基本生活費三個月這樣的額度以這樣的額度超過了才去進行強制執行可是我們這個執行也要有那個成本的概念"},{"start":47.315,"end":61.991,"text":"你媒體裡面講說你可以分為戶籍所在地住所地然後還可以工作地都在跨不同的縣市的時候那變成不同的標準這樣勞費實在太大了我們應該要化繁為簡"},{"start":63.593,"end":83.351,"text":"我要提一個idea給你思考就以全國生活費用最高的地方三個月以這個做標準假設全國最高的基本生活費是在台北市的話那就以台北市基本生活費的三個月的標準全國都一致"},{"start":84.292,"end":111.056,"text":"那這樣全國的法院就很清楚的了解到這個法律的標準在哪裡而不是說以生活地、以工作地、以戶籍地都可以來挑一個對債務人最有利然後就每個個案光是這個就要進入有沒有到達什麼範圍的增值這個太浪費了不知道這個你來考慮看看這個適不可行"},{"start":111.836,"end":130.322,"text":"謝謝委員,我想上個禮拜公聽會的時候,因為我有另一位沒有參與,不過我仔細的聆聽了各界對這個的看法,誠如剛才委員所指正的,就是說這次的修改保險法,我們是被動的修法,是因為已經衍生了很多的問題,我們必須要去解決這問題。"},{"start":131.903,"end":159.752,"text":"不過在我的印象裡我在保險市場已經快40年的時間我們過去的保險契約一直都不會構成強制執行的問題的標的但是111年以後大法庭的解釋當然就湧出了這麼大的問題所以金管會責無旁貸必須要透過立法來解決這問題我們在這次的修法草案裡面呢剛剛委員的指證就是這個建議其實我們就思考了三個非常重要的原則來做這個修法第一個社會成本"},{"start":160.572,"end":179.121,"text":"我們一定要用最低的社會成本來解決這問題第二個就是我們要公平的看待債權跟債務人的關係第三個也很重要就是我們要確保保險安定社會的功能能夠繼續的維持這三個是我們在考慮的所以說我們在這裡面我們剛剛委員的建議我覺得是可以來思考因為當時我們會訂這個法案的這樣內容是我們是"},{"start":182.583,"end":202.97,"text":"因為認為說過去如果訂一個固定的金額可能會隨著時間經過會產生一些變化那我們就是依循那個強制執行法的概念來用這個當然它背後有一套解決的方法剛剛委員也提到了它有主要生活區域、戶籍地如果再加上保單還有一個邀保人的住所"},{"start":203.73,"end":230.573,"text":"這些都是一個非常非常難判斷當然司法院有他一套的解決方法我覺得委員這個想法說不定我們可以來思考司法院有解決方法我們了解啊但是我舉一個例子假設我是被強制執行的債務人那我又主張我的戶籍地在新北而我生活工作地在台北那假設我還有其他的地方那關於我這個主張債權人就可以說不行喔你不能用台北市你要用新北市的"},{"start":231.613,"end":260.652,"text":"那就又要進入個案的認定在強制執行中間其實不需要這麼多的認定因為這樣子會增加很多的債務人意之數還會增加很多的這個程序上面的這些的攻防所以我是覺得抓一個一致的標準那抓一個一致的標準當然以全國為之因為台灣現在已經是一日生活圈了你要說台北市三個月大概是7萬多然後這個南部大概是5萬東部可能剩下4萬多"},{"start":261.733,"end":290.326,"text":"我覺得這樣子光是為了說你應該這個債權人應該是在算在東部還是在算在北部還是北部的台北市還是新北市個案你都去逐一認定那如果大家意見不一樣的時候就再另外一個訴訟那這個是整個社會的勞費會增加很多我們應該要考慮司法也有成本啊我們做這些執行也有成本那讓這個投保人將來也可以很清楚的了解說哪一些保險"},{"start":291.567,"end":312.065,"text":"如果你的保險的產值是超過這個金額是會被可能會被強制執行如果你有債務的話那這樣子是比較減省的啦是我說劃減為凡啦對確實像我剛剛提到如何以最低的社會成本執行這樣的一個效益我想剛剛那個建議我們會回來思考好謝謝那第二個就是"},{"start":313.715,"end":340.168,"text":"我們過去這些年在中國的曝險大家都是計算國營國家的銀行在中國的曝險金額是逐年下降有定一個標準這個逐年下降是可喜可樂因為要在不穩定的地方當然你那個風險高的地方盡量曝險要少一點可是我覺得那個計算有很多的黑數以前最被常提出來的黑數就是影子銀行"},{"start":341.429,"end":367.618,"text":"這租賃公司他的付錢你沒有辦法計算在這裡面那你未來租賃公司的納管會越來越嚴格嘛再來就是國營如果他的分行那有統計進來 放款有統計進來但是那紙行就漏掉了因為他是依照中國的法令在中國的紙行但是他其實的大股東母公司是國營那那個也統計不到"},{"start":369.179,"end":380.845,"text":"有沒有什麼辦法因為一切的政策的考量要從事實的調查做基礎有沒有辦法把台灣在中國的曝險更清楚更明確的算出來"},{"start":382.387,"end":402.364,"text":"有沒有打算往這個方向來努力?我上次委員在詢問這個問題的時候我們大概那個曝險大概18.5%現在大概降到18%大概又在持續的下降中當然剛剛委員有指證說我們還有其他業態的公司在那邊也有類似做一些獸性的類似獸性的業務我們也持續在關注"},{"start":406.407,"end":435.285,"text":"剛剛就是確實沒有錯我們現在的法令規定說我們現在國營的曝險不可以超過他淨值的一倍那現在大部分的國營剛剛講那個18就是只有占我們淨值的18全體平均當然我們的算法有分子行跟分行的算法分行的話就是用他的壽信同業拆借還有就是他們就是這些的投資但是我們對子行的算法是以他的投資金額為主就投資額為主這兩個標準是有點差異所以我們現在也"},{"start":436.245,"end":458.951,"text":"會來考慮說怎麼樣從實質衡量曝險的角度我們會重新來做一個盤點對 因為這個數字如果精確我們在做一些金融政策上面的時候能夠比較了解真正的狀況是怎麼樣比較接近真實所以這方面要努力再來就是明年一個大課題就是要接這個IFRS17的消耗公報"},{"start":460.271,"end":475.463,"text":"這個目前前兩年是保險業都有提出一些他們不一樣的看法或他有困難啊怎麼樣的難題希望你們能夠暫緩或是給他協力解決這一些這近半年多來這個聲音減少了那減少是因為我們的"},{"start":476.664,"end":489.965,"text":"越來越了解呢協助有成呢還是有什麼其他的因素我這最近比較少聽到這樣子的聲音那個其實沒有新聞就是好新聞嘛就是一樣其實我覺得這個東西就這套制度剛開始實施的時候台灣的利率還是處於低檔"},{"start":491.087,"end":514.629,"text":"那我們現在呢,因為現在利率大家都知道比以前提高了我們保險業最大的一個負債科目就是受到利率的影響我們利率的假設現在提高了所以大家在這個未來接軌iPhone 17的時候呢本來就是它在那個負債的提高本來就是會減輕那當然經過主管機關在這麼多年來不斷的強化做所謂的商品體質的改變"},{"start":515.47,"end":527.688,"text":"他們現在累積了很多商品的轉型其實未來在接軌日那個主力確實小很多其實像陳儒剛才委員所指正的確實我們在這部分在我們現在所有的監控過程當中都非常順利"},{"start":528.925,"end":554.291,"text":"那你譬如說你今天的報告一開始說去年這個各行各金融業這三大行業賺了多少錢這裡面有包括匯差嗎譬如說我在保險公司在美國資產那投資的金額那本來用美金換算那這幾年來台幣是貶值啊所以你再換算成台幣回來的話它就帳面上就增加了很多啊這個有算在這裡面嗎這個我們就是"},{"start":555.191,"end":580.029,"text":"我剛才報告的這個損益數字是財報的損益數字就依據我們現在的會計準則所計算出來的損益數字所以有的有放有的沒放當然會計損益裡面是把匯率的那部分是它的實現跟已實現收入都有考慮在內對那你要知道因為匯率跟這個利率都是不確定的東西改天換台幣升值的時候那是不是就又挨天"},{"start":581.314,"end":605.805,"text":"有時候遇到多的虧損就跑出來啊確實其實我覺得財報的特性就是它是一個中性的它今天的比如說整個經濟環境的波動有時候好有時候壞本來就是它忠實的反映它的真實的狀況所以我也常跟保險院的在提醒今年獲益好其實也不要說就這樣其實也隱含著未來這個波動性"},{"start":607.006,"end":629.265,"text":"有的時候多賺錢是因為剛好就是這個政策的時機問題還是時間點的問題所以不能我們台語在說好天要積福來牛不能每天想說天天都是好天氣非常同意另外就是說你剛剛提到說因為利率是保險業一個很重要的東西利率也是一樣的狀況也是會升降"},{"start":629.825,"end":642.762,"text":"但是如果你擴大能夠在台灣有投資的管道的話至少避險的這一部分的成本可以降低一些啦我們已經採取一些措施來去降低他們的那個避險成本好 這我們需要去努力了加油謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝委員的質詢 下一位請你袁寬文委員質詢 請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":162,"blocks":[["吳委員秉叡：（9時24分）主席，麻煩請金管會彭主委。"],["主席：彭主委請。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員早。"],["吳委員秉叡：彭主委早。最近媒體上常在講因為大法庭對於強制執行的法律見解，所以你們又要修改保險法。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["吳委員秉叡：我看到媒體上面的報導說你們基本上每一張保單保留各地區的基本生活費3個月的額度，以這樣的額度，超過的才進行強制執行，可是我們執行也要有成本的概念，媒體裡面講說你可以分為戶籍所在地、住所地，然後還可以工作地，都在跨不同的縣市的時候，那變成不同的標準，這樣勞費實在太大了，我們應該要化繁為簡，我提一個idea給你思考，就以全國生活費用最高的地方3個月，以這個做標準，假設全國最高的基本生活費是在臺北市的話，那就以臺北市基本生活費的3個月的標準，全國都一致，那這樣全國的法院就很清楚地了解到這個法律的標準在哪裡，而不是說以生活地、以工作地、以戶籍地都可以來挑一個對債務人最有利，然後就每個個案光是這個就要進入有沒有到達什麼範圍的爭執，這個太浪費勞費了，你來考慮看看這個是否可行？"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員，我想上個禮拜公聽會的時候，因為我另有事沒有參與，不過我仔細地聆聽了各界對這個的看法，誠如剛才委員所指正的，就是說這次的修改保險法，我們是被動地修法，是因為已經衍生了很多的問題，我們必須要去解決這問題，不過在我印象裡，我在保險市場已經快40年的時間，我們過去的保險契約一直都不會構成強制執行的標的，但是111年以後，大法庭的解釋當然就湧出了這麼大的問題，所以金管會責無旁貸，必須要透過立法來解決這個問題。我們在這次的修法草案裡面，剛剛委員的指正，就是這個建議，其實我們就思考了三個非常重要的原則來做這個修法，第一個、社會成本，我們一定要用最低的社會成本來解決這個問題；第二個就是我們要公平地看待債權跟債務人的關係；第三個也很重要，就是我們要確保保險安定社會的功能能夠繼續維持，這三個是我們在考慮的，所以說我們在這裡面，剛剛委員的建議我覺得是可以來思考，因為當時我們會定這樣的法案的內容，因為我們認為過去如果定一個固定的金額可能會隨著時間經過而產生一些變化，那我們就依循強制執行法的概念來用這個，當然它背後有一套解決的方法，剛剛委員也提到了，他有主要生活區域、戶籍地，如果再加上保單還有一個要保人的住所，這些都是一個非常非常難判斷，當然司法院有它一套的解決方法，我覺得委員這個想法說不定我們可以來思考。"],["吳委員秉叡：司法院有解決方法，我們了解啊！但是我舉一個例子，假設我是被強制執行的債務人，我就主張我的戶籍地在新北，我生活、工作地在臺北，假設我還有其他地方，光我這個主張，債權人就可以說不行，你不能用臺北市，你要用新北市的，那就又要進入個案的認定，在強制執行中間其實不需要這麼多的認定，因為這樣子會增加很多的債務人異議之訴，還會增加很多程序上面的攻防，所以我是覺得抓一個一致的標準，當然以全國為一致，因為臺灣現在已經是一日生活圈啦，你要說臺北市3個月大概是七萬多，然後南部大概是5萬，東部可能剩下四萬多，我覺得這樣子，光是為了說這個債權人應該是算在東部還是算在北部，還是北部的臺北市還是新北市，個案你都去逐一認定，那如果大家意見不一樣的時候，就再另外一個訴訟，整個社會的勞費會增加很多，我們應該要考慮司法也有成本，我們做這些執行也有成本，讓投保人將來也可以很清楚地了解說哪一些保險，如果你的保險殘值是超過這個金額，可能會被強制執行，如果你有債務的話，這樣子是比較簡省的……"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，確實……"],["吳委員秉叡：我說化簡為繁啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，確實像委員……我剛才提到，如何以最低的社會成本執行這樣的一個效益，我想剛剛那個建議我們會來思考。"],["吳委員秉叡：好。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝。"],["吳委員秉叡：第二個就是我們過去這些年在中國的曝險，大家都是計算國銀──國家的銀行在中國的曝險，金額是逐年下降，也有訂一個標準，逐年下降是可喜可賀，因為要在不穩定的地方，當然風險高的地方儘量曝險要少一點，可是我覺得那個計算有很多的黑數，以前最被常提出來的黑數就是影子銀行，租賃公司的曝險你沒有辦法計算在這裡面，未來租賃公司的納管會越來越嚴格。再來就是國銀，如果它的分行有統計進來，放款有統計進來，但是它的子行就漏掉了，因為它是依照中國的法令在中國的子行，但是它的大股東、母公司其實是國銀，那那個也統計不到，有沒有什麼辦法……因為一切的政策考量要從事實的調查做基礎，有沒有辦法把臺灣在中國的曝險更清楚、更明確地算出來？有沒有打算往這個方向來努力？"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告，就是上次委員在詢問這個問題的時候，我們的曝險大概18.5，現在大概降到18，又在持續地下降中。當然剛剛委員有指正說，我們還有其他業態的公司在那邊有做一些類似授信的業務，我們也持續在關注。確實沒有錯，我們現在的法令規定說我們現在國銀的曝險不可以超過它淨值的一倍，現在大部分的國銀……剛剛講那個18就是只有占我們全體平均淨值的18，當然我們的算法有分子行跟分行的算法，分行的話就是用它的授信、同業拆借，還有就是他們這些的投資，但是我們對子行的算法是以它的投資淨額為主，就投資額為主，這兩個標準是有點差異，所以我們現在也會來考慮說怎麼樣從實質衡量曝險的角度，我們會重新來做一個盤點。"],["吳委員秉叡：對，因為這個數字如果精確，我們在做一些金融政策上面的時候，能夠比較了解真正的狀況是怎麼樣，比較接近真實，所以這方面要努力。再來就是明年一個大課題，就是要接IFRS 17的17號公報，前2年保險業都有提出一些他們不一樣的看法或是有困難、怎麼樣的難題，希望你們能夠暫緩或是給它協力解決，近半年多來這個聲音減少了，減少是因為我們越來越了解、協助有成，還是有什麼其他的因素？我最近比較少聽到這樣的聲音。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實沒有新聞就是好新聞，就是一樣，其實我覺得這個東西，就這套制度剛開始實施的時候，臺灣的利率還是處於低檔，因為現在利率大家都知道比以前提高了，我們保險業最大的一個負債科目就是受到利率的影響，我們利率假設現在提高了，所以大家在未來接軌IFRS 17的時候，本來就是它在負債的提撥會減輕，當然經過主管機關這麼多年來不斷地強化做所謂的商品體質的改變，他們現在累積了很多商品的轉型，其實像未來在接軌日，那個阻力確實小很多，其實誠如剛剛委員所指正的，確實我們在這部分，在我們現在所有的監控過程當中都非常順利。"],["吳委員秉叡：譬如說你今天的報告一開始說去年各行各金融業，這三大行業賺了多少錢，這裡面有包括匯差嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然都包括。"],["吳委員秉叡：譬如說保險公司在美國置產，那投資的金額，本來用美金換算，這幾年來臺幣是貶值，所以你再換算成臺幣回來的話，它帳面上就增加了很多，這個有算在這裡面嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我剛才報告的損益數字是財報的損益數字，就依據我們現在的會計準則所計算出來的損益數字。"],["吳委員秉叡：所以有的有放、有的沒放，如果有重估的就有？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然會計損益裡面，匯率的那部分是它的實現跟已實現收入都有考慮在內。"],["吳委員秉叡：對，那你要知道，因為匯率跟利率都是不確定的東西，改天換臺幣升值的時候，那是不是又要說一大堆的虧損又跑出來？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，其實我覺得財報的特性就是它是一個中性的，比如說整個經濟環境的波動，有時候好、有時候壞，本來就是忠實地反映它真實的狀況，所以我也常常跟保險業提醒，今年獲益好其實也不要說就這樣，其實也隱含著未來波動性，所以……"],["吳委員秉叡：就是有的時候多賺錢是因為剛好就是政策的時機問題。"],["彭主任委員金隆：還有就是時間點的問題。"],["吳委員秉叡：對，所以我們臺語在說「好天著存雨來糧」，不能每天想說天天都是好天氣……"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒錯，非常同意。"],["吳委員秉叡：另外就是你剛剛提到因為利率是保險業一個很重要的東西，利率也是一樣的狀況，也是會升降。"],["彭主任委員金隆：也是波動的。"],["吳委員秉叡：但是如果你能夠在臺灣擴大投資管道的話，至少避險這部分的成本可以降低一些，這是我們需要去努力的。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們已經採取一些措施來降低他們的避險成本。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，這是我們需要去努力的，加油。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，謝謝委員。"],["吳委員秉叡：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員的質詢。","下一位請顏寬恒委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-4","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","顏寬恒","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","李坤城","林思銘","黃珊珊","羅明才","陳玉珍","王世堅","張啓楷","徐欣瑩","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":419,"meetingDate":["2025-03-26"],"gazette_id":"1143101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143101_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相\n關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集\n中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143101_00007"}}}