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794.661, \"end\": 794.942, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"侵\", \"start\": 794.942, \"end\": 795.102, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 795.102, \"end\": 796.043, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 796.043, \"end\": 796.563, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 796.563, \"end\": 797.084, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 797.084, \"end\": 797.404, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 797.404, \"end\": 797.504, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 797.504, \"end\": 797.584, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 797.584, \"end\": 797.885, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 797.885, \"end\": 798.285, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 798.285, \"end\": 798.465, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 798.465, \"end\": 798.946, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 798.946, \"end\": 799.386, \"score\": 0.683}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 799.386, \"end\": 799.507, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"漁\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 799.507, \"end\": 799.667, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 799.667, \"end\": 799.787, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 799.787, \"end\": 799.807, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 799.807, \"end\": 799.927, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 799.927, \"end\": 800.007, \"score\": 0.611}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 800.007, \"end\": 800.027, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 800.027, \"end\": 800.107, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 800.107, \"end\": 800.227, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 800.227, \"end\": 800.387, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 800.387, \"end\": 800.488, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 800.488, \"end\": 800.608, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 800.608, \"end\": 800.728, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 800.728, \"end\": 800.748, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 800.748, \"end\": 800.828, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 800.828, \"end\": 800.848, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 800.848, \"end\": 800.968, \"score\": 0.655}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 800.968, \"end\": 801.068, \"score\": 0.539}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 801.068, \"end\": 801.208, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 801.208, \"end\": 801.288, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 801.288, \"end\": 801.308, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 801.308, \"end\": 801.329, \"score\": 0.016}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"祺\"}, {\"word\": \"凱\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:17,794 --> 00:00:36,461\n請保定好我們再請部長各位好保定我們現在來關心我們台灣同基層同線量的農民我想請你跟我一起追一個很悲傷\n\n2\n00:00:38,203 --> 00:01:01,564\n也是很多這個漁民啊碰到的這個困擾我要給你看的這個個案,來下一張圖,這個是漁民業者跟政府三叔的一個漁電共生的這個案子那我們共同來努力,現在大家都急來捕破網,我給你看,我們來看一下這個圖,請播下一張後面你看,這就是\n\n3\n00:01:03,308 --> 00:01:21,191\n這就是嘉義議長號稱我們全台灣第一個餘電共生的第一案在嘉義議長的台女餘電共生的案子你看喔這本來是很好的一個疑問嘛對不對你對農民我了解這疑問本來很好結果為了要推動這個餘電共生他業者進去施工你看\n\n4\n00:01:30,134 --> 00:01:57,090\n竟然有人把那個基樁插滿在魚塭裡面這是第一個大問題嘛這怎麼養魚怎麼縮成第二個上面都蓋滿了這個太陽能光電板你想三百米三百米一定要有陽光啊文革也要有陽光啊所以就起不來那業者也試著說把那個蝦子丟進去養看看也死掉了沒陽光啦好那第三個問題你看看那個邊坡啊就那個土堤\n\n5\n00:01:58,090 --> 00:02:25,912\n保證你看那個土堤你是農業部長你一定知道這個土啊一定是要用這個黏土嘛各個業者都去用那個砂紙的這個土電線還要通離境啊土堤怎麼會有人是傾斜的那就讓他們沖刷整個都往池塘裡面去了保證所以漁民就沒辦法本來要好好的漁溫本來要漁電共生嘛結果漁死了沒有漁電也沒有來所以漁民輸了\n\n6\n00:02:27,816 --> 00:02:39,851\n政府也輸了業者也輸山蘇我們現在有機會來補救啦我希望這個島你去看叫你去你這個專家去你也沒辦法養嘛對不對對不對現在應該已經改善了嘛已經改善了\n\n7\n00:02:41,423 --> 00:03:00,848\n我上禮拜還去問啊怎麼改善它有一部分如果是這個積裝在外面這個目前是可以的如果有好幾個個案都是積裝在裡面的我跟委員報告魚電共生基本上光電的覆蓋率是40%第二件事情就是魚電共生之下的養殖的魚種根據我們水市所\n\n8\n00:03:01,508 --> 00:03:22,873\n他有針對不同的魚種包括蝦子包括吳郭魚大概有十種的魚種是可以適合養不是說任何的魚種一定要百分之百的陽光因為它是覆蓋率是百分之四十的第三個部分是現在最重要的一個問題就是光電業者跟成豬業者跟地主之間應該有一個更好的一個互動\n\n9\n00:03:23,593 --> 00:03:46,048\n那農業部現在在積極的去推動就是由專業的養殖的青農來在光電的規劃的一開始就進去去協助做最適當的光電的設置規劃以前不是以前是光電業者自己隨便蓋然後他不會養他就養其他的專業養殖者那個都是應付的啦\n\n10\n00:03:46,768 --> 00:04:02,462\n那個保定你要繼續努力啦博博要紙上談兵我今天跟你談的是很具體我們非常努力去做這個不是保定保定我今天跟你講這個案子是這個案子目前在你的農業部在種材它已經被嘉義縣政府因為沒辦法養嘛\n\n11\n00:04:04,540 --> 00:04:21,932\n所以他已經被農業被嘉義縣政府已經取消了他這個容許那個許可耶一直整個都停擺啊我先講一下這個案子現在就是處理那一區的保溫對啊現在就是這個案子嘛這個案子大可憐你知道嗎現在業者台米是跟這個漁民啊求償多少錢你知道嗎\n\n12\n00:04:30,698 --> 00:04:58,106\n一億三千四百五十萬耶這都沒有幾次人嘛他們一千萬要求償一億三千四百五十萬這有沒有很嚴重他說沒辦法睡覺第二個對業者來講台女的說啊我當初政府你要有做這個一定工資嘛對不對所以我才投入這麼多錢啊所以現在變成山蘇啊我記得要求很明確第一個這個案子很嚴重這個媒體報的好多次了上禮拜還在報嘛\n\n13\n00:04:59,617 --> 00:05:17,365\n我請部長你們要完全掌握我下去考察的時候你們的市長是有去的啊這個案子第一個你們現在在種材莊第一個他已經是一個荒廢狀態現在打官司跟討論的過程我拜託你一件事情你們農業部不能騎公車看賣相談啦\n\n14\n00:05:20,663 --> 00:05:35,114\n你們要照顧農民嘛好不好盡快進行這個普破王來著急你只要把這個看要怎麼去改善對不對讓魚可以繼續養我剛才說了這四個大吹屍都是有辦法可以改善的改善完不要再求償\n\n15\n00:05:37,396 --> 00:06:01,298\n我跟委員報告這個案場現在我所知道的訊息是已經改善完整已經在放養泰國蝦了那至於說台泥跟那個那個成豬的農民之間的關係那這個東西我想我們會站在客觀的立場去因為農民因為這是個案不是全案個案的部分他跟台泥之間的要求然後台泥去求賞我相信會牽涉到一些\n\n16\n00:06:02,459 --> 00:06:18,424\n私人的事情啦那我想我們會去了解然後如果說是針對農民是有理的部分我想我們一定會站在協助的角度要去照顧我們基層這些農民啦這個不是只有這個案子這個案例已經撤回訴訟了\n\n17\n00:06:19,804 --> 00:06:46,860\n有撤回訴訟已經撤回訴訟那很好那你們要更進一步要協調他們最理想的就是可以讓他重新有魚嘛沒有現在已經改了要改好你們都去關心他們那事實上我實地界考察也不是只有這個案子碰到問題旁邊那個插滿集中的有幾個漁民都在陳情現在請那個部長跟那個農業部好不好你們去第一個去關心他們他們碰到問題幫他們解決第二個我知道你們這個\n\n18\n00:06:48,061 --> 00:07:06,010\n定型這個企業啦其實一開始只要出現這個問題他就那個企業本身定的那個內容啊移民都看不懂嘛對不對所以你後來你有把定型化這個企業對三方定型化企業你們要下去一不小心關心你們把這個企業齁跟他們輔導一下就是說你一定要去努力要照顧好自己的潛力好不好\n\n19\n00:07:08,151 --> 00:07:29,440\n我想我非常重要就是過往的那個光電的一些比較混亂的地方那我們在內部已經重新調整我們會以更積極的服務的態度去協助而不是說只提供土地的變更或者土地的容許啦那其他的是由光電業者跟農民自己來啦我想我們會用更積極的輔導作為去做\n\n20\n00:07:31,521 --> 00:07:53,281\n我們積極一點共同去關心啦要不然幫他們解決問題特別我講的定型化企業那個好好做好不好另外我問一下剛才其實有其他立委問到了就是婚齡管政部所在講他說剛講的是餘電共生嘛現在是農地農電共生這個問題好像一個婚齡嘛超過五千名的這個農民面臨他的這個農保可能要退保\n\n21\n00:07:54,626 --> 00:08:09,916\n可能要退保我自己也跟這個問題台南也有他們是響應國家的政策啊要推動光電那這個要怎麼幫這些人民我跟委員報告我覺得有一些媒體下錯標了而且是惡意的下標就是針對老農針對洋套殺\n\n22\n00:08:12,961 --> 00:08:36,106\n年紀超過65歲的他農保可以不需要持有土地所以這個部分是完全百分之百沒問題超過65歲以上的老農沒有那個0.1公頃對沒有這個已經解開了所以65以上解決那65以下呢所以沒有老農養套上這些問題我必須要澄清所以65歲以下呢\n\n23\n00:08:38,067 --> 00:08:49,304\n65歲以下的話我們今天業務有提出來一個調整作為你如果配合國家的能源政策你提供這些土地出租以後那我們會鬆綁讓他繼續維持有農保的資格\n\n24\n00:08:53,863 --> 00:09:10,198\n所以董事長你為什麼要下令各個縣市在前面去做這個清查我跟議員報告龍寶的清查是一直在做的而不是特別清查然後這次會發文是因為審計部在做後台勾擊的時候他覺得有一些\n\n25\n00:09:11,199 --> 00:09:38,084\n一律要釐清不是說那些人就全部違規他說一律要釐清然後要我們盡速的去釐清所以我們在做這樣的一個處理那另外一個就是我想有委員要求我們說我們都放任光電的農民都還可以繼續有農保也要求我們去清查所以我們才同步去清查的這個是有史以來歷年來最大規模的農保資格清查要讓我們農民可以安心好不好\n\n26\n00:09:39,004 --> 00:10:01,851\n所以部長你剛講65歲以上的放心然後以下的怎麼讓他們可以放心這個要進一步清清楚楚的說明對我們已經非常清楚而且我們後續會盡快的修改相關的辦法然後最近我想我們也會發文先請縣市政府暫停暫停光電的部分光電的部分我們有一些調整暫行清查這個很重要你說會先\n\n27\n00:10:02,991 --> 00:10:12,200\n發文給各個縣市政府光電的農地這部分我想我們先暫時因為我們要修改他們的辦法部長我最後做三點這個結論第一個\n\n28\n00:10:14,929 --> 00:10:34,809\n對於過往有實際務農這個狀況可是他不管是在餘電共生或者是農電共生你要審定標準如果沒有達到的盡量往放寬的方向去走好不好保住他們這個農保的這個資格若是說這對他來講很重要重寬重寬啊第二件給你重重的第二件定型化這個企業啦你針對這個\n\n29\n00:10:36,391 --> 00:10:51,442\n我的了解是這個漁電共生已經有幾個版本一直在修定型化企業農地農電共生好像還沒有對不對我們沒有開沒有開那你要跟經濟部討論一下可以比照漁電共生趕快嗎沒有我農地不開\n\n30\n00:10:52,996 --> 00:11:07,215\n農地不開光電他們有些農地你不是已經那是變更農地變更對農地變更那是變更土地變更以後就做的對我現在你說變更完了現在就是如果有農地或者是農民他做了這個\n\n31\n00:11:08,436 --> 00:11:34,986\n他要去跟業者要合作做我們的國家政策我們不同意農地我們現在不同意農地那你現在有某些農地我們家是漁店然後那個溫室的溫室栽培的屋頂可以像你剛才說你們這些人當地的問題這些農民你應該是要怎麼去幫他你就應該給他一個沒有就是漁店的部分是沒問題的然後現在在屋頂型的也沒問題這個我們都可以來處理但是\n\n32\n00:11:35,973 --> 00:12:04,206\n那個陸地的光電設施我們目前並沒有開沒有開放嘛我是說如果有些農民碰到這個問題你要去幫他們解決啦好不好要多一點輔導多一點多一點協助好最後一個針對這個農民跟養殖這個漁民啊如果配合政府的農電共生跟漁電共生政策可是後來這個土地發生了像剛剛在講的污染啦埋了什麼廢棄物啦環境改變或者是什麼電廠設計跟施工你導致他根本就沒辦法再種農或者務農或者是養殖的時候\n\n33\n00:12:05,006 --> 00:12:21,360\n搞不好後來導致他連那個農民的身份都被取消嘛或者一定時間裡面都沒辦法從事欸你還說這個很可憐喔結果有時候還被業者回過頭來要去求償他我請也算拜託啦也要求農業部這我硬要做的齁我原本說過往就是齁\n\n34\n00:12:22,501 --> 00:12:39,788\n地主租了以後他根本不去看現場光電就被亂蓋了現在我們希望說在蓋的規劃的時候我們這些養殖的青龍就要一起去設計然後去看他的施工會不會有影響他的汙染影響後續的養殖這個部分我們會做\n\n35\n00:12:40,328 --> 00:13:05,013\n你不用清農而已啦,包括老農、中農都一樣啦,所以農民都要,尤其是年紀越大了,可能他那個法律上的那個錢,他比較沒有這個經驗嘛,所以我一方面是要求,一方面是拜託農業部,一定拜託一下,一定要做這個事情,就是要多幫幫他們啦,所以包括他們可能有時候被人家求償、被餓死,你們要站在農民的這個角度,跟他們立場,多保護他們,多照顧,包括,對,保證,在剛才的案件一樣,\n\n36\n00:13:07,213 --> 00:13:21,329\n去幫他們協商好不好都照顧我們的農民你現在不是只有一邊化解那個酋長這個問題然後盡量如果說他們受到不利的侵害有時候錯在業者對不對業者比較強大嘛都幫幫我們這個漁民跟農民自己到該有的權利好不好這三點請具體的落實好不好好謝謝我們張祺凱偉\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n17794\t36461\t請保定好 我們再請部長各位好保定 我們現在來關心我們台灣同基層同線量的農民我想請你跟我一起追一個很悲傷\n38203\t61564\t也是很多這個漁民啊碰到的這個困擾我要給你看的這個個案,來下一張圖,這個是漁民業者跟政府三叔的一個漁電共生的這個案子那我們共同來努力,現在大家都急來捕破網,我給你看,我們來看一下這個圖,請播下一張後面你看,這就是\n63308\t81191\t這就是嘉義議長號稱我們全台灣第一個餘電共生的第一案在嘉義議長的台女餘電共生的案子你看喔這本來是很好的一個疑問嘛對不對你對農民我了解這疑問本來很好結果為了要推動這個餘電共生他業者進去施工 你看\n90134\t117090\t竟然有人把那個基樁插滿在魚塭裡面這是第一個大問題嘛這怎麼養魚怎麼縮成第二個 上面都蓋滿了這個太陽能光電板你想三百米 三百米一定要有陽光啊文革也要有陽光啊所以就起不來那業者也試著說把那個蝦子丟進去養看看也死掉了 沒陽光啦好 那第三個問題你看看那個邊坡啊 就那個土堤\n118090\t145912\t保證你看那個土堤你是農業部長你一定知道這個土啊一定是要用這個黏土嘛各個業者都去用那個砂紙的這個土電線還要通離境啊土堤怎麼會有人是傾斜的那就讓他們沖刷整個都往池塘裡面去了保證所以漁民就沒辦法本來要好好的漁溫本來要漁電共生嘛結果漁死了沒有漁電也沒有來所以漁民輸了\n147816\t159851\t政府也輸了 業者也輸 山蘇我們現在有機會來補救啦我希望這個島 你去看叫你去 你這個專家去 你也沒辦法養嘛 對不對對不對現在應該已經改善了嘛已經改善了\n161423\t180848\t我上禮拜還去問啊怎麼改善它有一部分如果是這個積裝在外面這個目前是可以的如果有好幾個個案都是積裝在裡面的我跟委員報告魚電共生基本上光電的覆蓋率是40%第二件事情就是魚電共生之下的養殖的魚種根據我們水市所\n181508\t202873\t他有針對不同的魚種包括蝦子包括吳郭魚大概有十種的魚種是可以適合養不是說任何的魚種一定要百分之百的陽光因為它是覆蓋率是百分之四十的第三個部分是現在最重要的一個問題就是光電業者跟成豬業者跟地主之間應該有一個更好的一個互動\n203593\t226048\t那農業部現在在積極的去推動就是由專業的養殖的青農來在光電的規劃的一開始就進去去協助做最適當的光電的設置規劃以前不是 以前是光電業者自己隨便蓋然後他不會養 他就養其他的專業養殖者那個都是應付的啦\n226768\t242462\t那個保定你要繼續努力啦博博要紙上談兵我今天跟你談的是很具體我們非常努力去做這個不是保定保定我今天跟你講這個案子是這個案子目前在你的農業部在種材它已經被嘉義縣政府因為沒辦法養嘛\n244540\t261932\t所以他已經被農業 被嘉義縣政府已經取消了他這個容許那個許可耶一直整個都停擺啊我先講一下這個案子現在就是處理那一區的保溫對啊 現在就是這個案子嘛 這個案子大可憐 你知道嗎現在業者台米是跟這個漁民啊 求償多少錢 你知道嗎\n270698\t298106\t一億三千四百五十萬耶這都沒有幾次人嘛 他們一千萬要求償一億三千四百五十萬這有沒有很嚴重他說沒辦法睡覺第二個對業者來講台女的說啊我當初政府你要有做這個一定工資嘛 對不對所以我才投入這麼多錢啊所以現在變成山蘇啊我記得要求很明確第一個這個案子很嚴重這個媒體報的好多次了上禮拜還在報嘛\n299617\t317365\t我請部長你們要完全掌握我下去考察的時候你們的市長是有去的啊這個案子第一個你們現在在種材莊第一個他已經是一個荒廢狀態現在打官司跟討論的過程我拜託你一件事情你們農業部不能騎公車看賣相談啦\n320663\t335114\t你們要照顧農民嘛好不好盡快進行這個普破王來著急你只要把這個看要怎麼去改善對不對讓魚可以繼續養我剛才說了這四個大吹屍都是有辦法可以改善的改善完不要再求償\n337396\t361298\t我跟委員報告這個案場現在我所知道的訊息是已經改善完整已經在放養泰國蝦了那至於說台泥跟那個那個成豬的農民之間的關係那這個東西我想我們會站在客觀的立場去因為農民因為這是個案不是全案個案的部分他跟台泥之間的要求然後台泥去求賞我相信會牽涉到一些\n362459\t378424\t私人的事情啦那我想我們會去了解然後如果說是針對農民是有理的部分我想我們一定會站在協助的角度要去照顧我們基層這些農民啦這個不是只有這個案子這個案例已經撤回訴訟了\n379804\t406860\t有撤回訴訟已經撤回訴訟那很好那你們要更進一步要協調他們最理想的就是可以讓他重新有魚嘛沒有現在已經改了要改好你們都去關心他們那事實上我實地界考察也不是只有這個案子碰到問題旁邊那個插滿集中的有幾個漁民都在陳情現在請那個部長跟那個農業部好不好你們去第一個去關心他們他們碰到問題幫他們解決第二個我知道你們這個\n408061\t426010\t定型這個企業啦其實一開始只要出現這個問題他就那個企業本身定的那個內容啊移民都看不懂嘛 對不對所以你後來你有把定型化這個企業對 三方定型化企業你們要下去一不小心關心你們把這個企業齁跟他們輔導一下就是說你一定要去努力要照顧好自己的潛力好不好\n428151\t449440\t我想我非常重要就是過往的那個光電的一些比較混亂的地方那我們在內部已經重新調整我們會以更積極的服務的態度去協助而不是說只提供土地的變更或者土地的容許啦那其他的是由光電業者跟農民自己來啦我想我們會用更積極的輔導作為去做\n451521\t473281\t我們積極一點 共同去關心啦要不然幫他們解決問題 特別我講的定型化企業那個好好做好不好另外我問一下 剛才其實有其他立委問到了就是婚齡 管政部所在講他說剛講的是餘電共生嘛 現在是農地 農電共生這個問題好像一個婚齡嘛 超過五千名的這個農民面臨他的這個農保可能要退保\n474626\t489916\t可能要退保我自己也跟這個問題 台南也有他們是響應國家的政策啊要推動光電那這個要怎麼幫這些人民我跟委員報告我覺得有一些媒體下錯標了而且是惡意的下標就是針對老農 針對洋套殺\n492961\t516106\t年紀超過65歲的他農保可以不需要持有土地所以這個部分是完全百分之百沒問題超過65歲以上的老農沒有那個0.1公頃對沒有這個已經解開了所以65以上解決那65以下呢所以沒有老農養套上這些問題我必須要澄清所以65歲以下呢\n518067\t529304\t65歲以下的話我們今天業務有提出來一個調整作為你如果配合國家的能源政策你提供這些土地出租以後那我們會鬆綁讓他繼續維持有農保的資格\n533863\t550198\t所以董事長你為什麼要下令各個縣市在前面去做這個清查我跟議員報告龍寶的清查是一直在做的而不是特別清查然後這次會發文是因為審計部在做後台勾擊的時候他覺得有一些\n551199\t578084\t一律要釐清不是說那些人就全部違規他說一律要釐清然後要我們盡速的去釐清所以我們在做這樣的一個處理那另外一個就是我想有委員要求我們說我們都放任光電的農民都還可以繼續有農保也要求我們去清查所以我們才同步去清查的這個是有史以來歷年來最大規模的農保資格清查要讓我們農民可以安心好不好\n579004\t601851\t所以部長你剛講65歲以上的放心然後以下的怎麼讓他們可以放心這個要進一步清清楚楚的說明對我們已經非常清楚而且我們後續會盡快的修改相關的辦法然後最近我想我們也會發文先請縣市政府暫停暫停光電的部分光電的部分我們有一些調整暫行清查這個很重要你說會先\n602991\t612200\t發文給各個縣市政府光電的農地這部分我想我們先暫時因為我們要修改他們的辦法部長我最後做三點這個結論第一個\n614929\t634809\t對於過往有實際務農這個狀況可是他不管是在餘電共生或者是農電共生你要審定標準如果沒有達到的盡量往放寬的方向去走好不好保住他們這個農保的這個資格若是說這對他來講很重要重寬重寬啊第二件給你重重的第二件定型化這個企業啦你針對這個\n636391\t651442\t我的了解是這個漁電共生已經有幾個版本一直在修定型化企業農地農電共生好像還沒有對不對我們沒有開沒有開那你要跟經濟部討論一下可以比照漁電共生趕快嗎沒有我農地不開\n652996\t667215\t農地不開光電他們有些農地你不是已經那是變更農地變更對農地變更那是變更土地變更以後就做的對我現在你說變更完了現在就是如果有農地或者是農民他做了這個\n668436\t694986\t他要去跟業者要合作做我們的國家政策我們不同意農地我們現在不同意農地那你現在有某些農地我們家是漁店然後那個溫室的溫室栽培的屋頂可以像你剛才說你們這些人當地的問題這些農民你應該是要怎麼去幫他你就應該給他一個沒有就是漁店的部分是沒問題的然後現在在屋頂型的也沒問題這個我們都可以來處理但是\n695973\t724206\t那個陸地的光電設施我們目前並沒有開沒有開放嘛我是說如果有些農民碰到這個問題你要去幫他們解決啦好不好要多一點輔導多一點多一點協助好最後一個針對這個農民跟養殖這個漁民啊如果配合政府的農電共生跟漁電共生政策可是後來這個土地發生了像剛剛在講的污染啦埋了什麼廢棄物啦環境改變或者是什麼電廠設計跟施工你導致他根本就沒辦法再種農或者務農或者是養殖的時候\n725006\t741360\t搞不好後來導致他連那個農民的身份都被取消嘛或者一定時間裡面都沒辦法從事欸你還說這個很可憐喔結果有時候還被業者回過頭來要去求償他我請 也算拜託啦也要求農業部這我硬要做的齁我原本說過往就是齁\n742501\t759788\t地主租了以後他根本不去看現場光電就被亂蓋了現在我們希望說在蓋的規劃的時候我們這些養殖的青龍就要一起去設計然後去看他的施工會不會有影響他的汙染影響後續的養殖這個部分我們會做\n760328\t785013\t你不用清農而已啦,包括老農、中農都一樣啦,所以農民都要,尤其是年紀越大了,可能他那個法律上的那個錢,他比較沒有這個經驗嘛,所以我一方面是要求,一方面是拜託農業部,一定拜託一下,一定要做這個事情,就是要多幫幫他們啦,所以包括他們可能有時候被人家求償、被餓死,你們要站在農民的這個角度,跟他們立場,多保護他們,多照顧,包括,對,保證,在剛才的案件一樣,\n787213\t801329\t去幫他們協商好不好都照顧我們的農民你現在不是只有一邊化解那個酋長這個問題然後盡量如果說他們受到不利的侵害有時候錯在業者對不對業者比較強大嘛都幫幫我們這個漁民跟農民自己到該有的權利好不好這三點請具體的落實好不好好 謝謝我們張祺凱偉\n","txt":"請保定好 我們再請部長各位好保定 我們現在來關心我們台灣同基層同線量的農民我想請你跟我一起追一個很悲傷\n也是很多這個漁民啊碰到的這個困擾我要給你看的這個個案,來下一張圖,這個是漁民業者跟政府三叔的一個漁電共生的這個案子那我們共同來努力,現在大家都急來捕破網,我給你看,我們來看一下這個圖,請播下一張後面你看,這就是\n這就是嘉義議長號稱我們全台灣第一個餘電共生的第一案在嘉義議長的台女餘電共生的案子你看喔這本來是很好的一個疑問嘛對不對你對農民我了解這疑問本來很好結果為了要推動這個餘電共生他業者進去施工 你看\n竟然有人把那個基樁插滿在魚塭裡面這是第一個大問題嘛這怎麼養魚怎麼縮成第二個 上面都蓋滿了這個太陽能光電板你想三百米 三百米一定要有陽光啊文革也要有陽光啊所以就起不來那業者也試著說把那個蝦子丟進去養看看也死掉了 沒陽光啦好 那第三個問題你看看那個邊坡啊 就那個土堤\n保證你看那個土堤你是農業部長你一定知道這個土啊一定是要用這個黏土嘛各個業者都去用那個砂紙的這個土電線還要通離境啊土堤怎麼會有人是傾斜的那就讓他們沖刷整個都往池塘裡面去了保證所以漁民就沒辦法本來要好好的漁溫本來要漁電共生嘛結果漁死了沒有漁電也沒有來所以漁民輸了\n政府也輸了 業者也輸 山蘇我們現在有機會來補救啦我希望這個島 你去看叫你去 你這個專家去 你也沒辦法養嘛 對不對對不對現在應該已經改善了嘛已經改善了\n我上禮拜還去問啊怎麼改善它有一部分如果是這個積裝在外面這個目前是可以的如果有好幾個個案都是積裝在裡面的我跟委員報告魚電共生基本上光電的覆蓋率是40%第二件事情就是魚電共生之下的養殖的魚種根據我們水市所\n他有針對不同的魚種包括蝦子包括吳郭魚大概有十種的魚種是可以適合養不是說任何的魚種一定要百分之百的陽光因為它是覆蓋率是百分之四十的第三個部分是現在最重要的一個問題就是光電業者跟成豬業者跟地主之間應該有一個更好的一個互動\n那農業部現在在積極的去推動就是由專業的養殖的青農來在光電的規劃的一開始就進去去協助做最適當的光電的設置規劃以前不是 以前是光電業者自己隨便蓋然後他不會養 他就養其他的專業養殖者那個都是應付的啦\n那個保定你要繼續努力啦博博要紙上談兵我今天跟你談的是很具體我們非常努力去做這個不是保定保定我今天跟你講這個案子是這個案子目前在你的農業部在種材它已經被嘉義縣政府因為沒辦法養嘛\n所以他已經被農業 被嘉義縣政府已經取消了他這個容許那個許可耶一直整個都停擺啊我先講一下這個案子現在就是處理那一區的保溫對啊 現在就是這個案子嘛 這個案子大可憐 你知道嗎現在業者台米是跟這個漁民啊 求償多少錢 你知道嗎\n一億三千四百五十萬耶這都沒有幾次人嘛 他們一千萬要求償一億三千四百五十萬這有沒有很嚴重他說沒辦法睡覺第二個對業者來講台女的說啊我當初政府你要有做這個一定工資嘛 對不對所以我才投入這麼多錢啊所以現在變成山蘇啊我記得要求很明確第一個這個案子很嚴重這個媒體報的好多次了上禮拜還在報嘛\n我請部長你們要完全掌握我下去考察的時候你們的市長是有去的啊這個案子第一個你們現在在種材莊第一個他已經是一個荒廢狀態現在打官司跟討論的過程我拜託你一件事情你們農業部不能騎公車看賣相談啦\n你們要照顧農民嘛好不好盡快進行這個普破王來著急你只要把這個看要怎麼去改善對不對讓魚可以繼續養我剛才說了這四個大吹屍都是有辦法可以改善的改善完不要再求償\n我跟委員報告這個案場現在我所知道的訊息是已經改善完整已經在放養泰國蝦了那至於說台泥跟那個那個成豬的農民之間的關係那這個東西我想我們會站在客觀的立場去因為農民因為這是個案不是全案個案的部分他跟台泥之間的要求然後台泥去求賞我相信會牽涉到一些\n私人的事情啦那我想我們會去了解然後如果說是針對農民是有理的部分我想我們一定會站在協助的角度要去照顧我們基層這些農民啦這個不是只有這個案子這個案例已經撤回訴訟了\n有撤回訴訟已經撤回訴訟那很好那你們要更進一步要協調他們最理想的就是可以讓他重新有魚嘛沒有現在已經改了要改好你們都去關心他們那事實上我實地界考察也不是只有這個案子碰到問題旁邊那個插滿集中的有幾個漁民都在陳情現在請那個部長跟那個農業部好不好你們去第一個去關心他們他們碰到問題幫他們解決第二個我知道你們這個\n定型這個企業啦其實一開始只要出現這個問題他就那個企業本身定的那個內容啊移民都看不懂嘛 對不對所以你後來你有把定型化這個企業對 三方定型化企業你們要下去一不小心關心你們把這個企業齁跟他們輔導一下就是說你一定要去努力要照顧好自己的潛力好不好\n我想我非常重要就是過往的那個光電的一些比較混亂的地方那我們在內部已經重新調整我們會以更積極的服務的態度去協助而不是說只提供土地的變更或者土地的容許啦那其他的是由光電業者跟農民自己來啦我想我們會用更積極的輔導作為去做\n我們積極一點 共同去關心啦要不然幫他們解決問題 特別我講的定型化企業那個好好做好不好另外我問一下 剛才其實有其他立委問到了就是婚齡 管政部所在講他說剛講的是餘電共生嘛 現在是農地 農電共生這個問題好像一個婚齡嘛 超過五千名的這個農民面臨他的這個農保可能要退保\n可能要退保我自己也跟這個問題 台南也有他們是響應國家的政策啊要推動光電那這個要怎麼幫這些人民我跟委員報告我覺得有一些媒體下錯標了而且是惡意的下標就是針對老農 針對洋套殺\n年紀超過65歲的他農保可以不需要持有土地所以這個部分是完全百分之百沒問題超過65歲以上的老農沒有那個0.1公頃對沒有這個已經解開了所以65以上解決那65以下呢所以沒有老農養套上這些問題我必須要澄清所以65歲以下呢\n65歲以下的話我們今天業務有提出來一個調整作為你如果配合國家的能源政策你提供這些土地出租以後那我們會鬆綁讓他繼續維持有農保的資格\n所以董事長你為什麼要下令各個縣市在前面去做這個清查我跟議員報告龍寶的清查是一直在做的而不是特別清查然後這次會發文是因為審計部在做後台勾擊的時候他覺得有一些\n一律要釐清不是說那些人就全部違規他說一律要釐清然後要我們盡速的去釐清所以我們在做這樣的一個處理那另外一個就是我想有委員要求我們說我們都放任光電的農民都還可以繼續有農保也要求我們去清查所以我們才同步去清查的這個是有史以來歷年來最大規模的農保資格清查要讓我們農民可以安心好不好\n所以部長你剛講65歲以上的放心然後以下的怎麼讓他們可以放心這個要進一步清清楚楚的說明對我們已經非常清楚而且我們後續會盡快的修改相關的辦法然後最近我想我們也會發文先請縣市政府暫停暫停光電的部分光電的部分我們有一些調整暫行清查這個很重要你說會先\n發文給各個縣市政府光電的農地這部分我想我們先暫時因為我們要修改他們的辦法部長我最後做三點這個結論第一個\n對於過往有實際務農這個狀況可是他不管是在餘電共生或者是農電共生你要審定標準如果沒有達到的盡量往放寬的方向去走好不好保住他們這個農保的這個資格若是說這對他來講很重要重寬重寬啊第二件給你重重的第二件定型化這個企業啦你針對這個\n我的了解是這個漁電共生已經有幾個版本一直在修定型化企業農地農電共生好像還沒有對不對我們沒有開沒有開那你要跟經濟部討論一下可以比照漁電共生趕快嗎沒有我農地不開\n農地不開光電他們有些農地你不是已經那是變更農地變更對農地變更那是變更土地變更以後就做的對我現在你說變更完了現在就是如果有農地或者是農民他做了這個\n他要去跟業者要合作做我們的國家政策我們不同意農地我們現在不同意農地那你現在有某些農地我們家是漁店然後那個溫室的溫室栽培的屋頂可以像你剛才說你們這些人當地的問題這些農民你應該是要怎麼去幫他你就應該給他一個沒有就是漁店的部分是沒問題的然後現在在屋頂型的也沒問題這個我們都可以來處理但是\n那個陸地的光電設施我們目前並沒有開沒有開放嘛我是說如果有些農民碰到這個問題你要去幫他們解決啦好不好要多一點輔導多一點多一點協助好最後一個針對這個農民跟養殖這個漁民啊如果配合政府的農電共生跟漁電共生政策可是後來這個土地發生了像剛剛在講的污染啦埋了什麼廢棄物啦環境改變或者是什麼電廠設計跟施工你導致他根本就沒辦法再種農或者務農或者是養殖的時候\n搞不好後來導致他連那個農民的身份都被取消嘛或者一定時間裡面都沒辦法從事欸你還說這個很可憐喔結果有時候還被業者回過頭來要去求償他我請 也算拜託啦也要求農業部這我硬要做的齁我原本說過往就是齁\n地主租了以後他根本不去看現場光電就被亂蓋了現在我們希望說在蓋的規劃的時候我們這些養殖的青龍就要一起去設計然後去看他的施工會不會有影響他的汙染影響後續的養殖這個部分我們會做\n你不用清農而已啦,包括老農、中農都一樣啦,所以農民都要,尤其是年紀越大了,可能他那個法律上的那個錢,他比較沒有這個經驗嘛,所以我一方面是要求,一方面是拜託農業部,一定拜託一下,一定要做這個事情,就是要多幫幫他們啦,所以包括他們可能有時候被人家求償、被餓死,你們要站在農民的這個角度,跟他們立場,多保護他們,多照顧,包括,對,保證,在剛才的案件一樣,\n去幫他們協商好不好都照顧我們的農民你現在不是只有一邊化解那個酋長這個問題然後盡量如果說他們受到不利的侵害有時候錯在業者對不對業者比較強大嘛都幫幫我們這個漁民跟農民自己到該有的權利好不好這三點請具體的落實好不好好 謝謝我們張祺凱偉\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:17.794 --> 00:36.461\n請保定好我們再請部長各位好保定我們現在來關心我們台灣同基層同線量的農民我想請你跟我一起追一個很悲傷\n\n00:38.203 --> 01:01.564\n也是很多這個漁民啊碰到的這個困擾我要給你看的這個個案,來下一張圖,這個是漁民業者跟政府三叔的一個漁電共生的這個案子那我們共同來努力,現在大家都急來捕破網,我給你看,我們來看一下這個圖,請播下一張後面你看,這就是\n\n01:03.308 --> 01:21.191\n這就是嘉義議長號稱我們全台灣第一個餘電共生的第一案在嘉義議長的台女餘電共生的案子你看喔這本來是很好的一個疑問嘛對不對你對農民我了解這疑問本來很好結果為了要推動這個餘電共生他業者進去施工你看\n\n01:30.134 --> 01:57.090\n竟然有人把那個基樁插滿在魚塭裡面這是第一個大問題嘛這怎麼養魚怎麼縮成第二個上面都蓋滿了這個太陽能光電板你想三百米三百米一定要有陽光啊文革也要有陽光啊所以就起不來那業者也試著說把那個蝦子丟進去養看看也死掉了沒陽光啦好那第三個問題你看看那個邊坡啊就那個土堤\n\n01:58.090 --> 02:25.912\n保證你看那個土堤你是農業部長你一定知道這個土啊一定是要用這個黏土嘛各個業者都去用那個砂紙的這個土電線還要通離境啊土堤怎麼會有人是傾斜的那就讓他們沖刷整個都往池塘裡面去了保證所以漁民就沒辦法本來要好好的漁溫本來要漁電共生嘛結果漁死了沒有漁電也沒有來所以漁民輸了\n\n02:27.816 --> 02:39.851\n政府也輸了業者也輸山蘇我們現在有機會來補救啦我希望這個島你去看叫你去你這個專家去你也沒辦法養嘛對不對對不對現在應該已經改善了嘛已經改善了\n\n02:41.423 --> 03:00.848\n我上禮拜還去問啊怎麼改善它有一部分如果是這個積裝在外面這個目前是可以的如果有好幾個個案都是積裝在裡面的我跟委員報告魚電共生基本上光電的覆蓋率是40%第二件事情就是魚電共生之下的養殖的魚種根據我們水市所\n\n03:01.508 --> 03:22.873\n他有針對不同的魚種包括蝦子包括吳郭魚大概有十種的魚種是可以適合養不是說任何的魚種一定要百分之百的陽光因為它是覆蓋率是百分之四十的第三個部分是現在最重要的一個問題就是光電業者跟成豬業者跟地主之間應該有一個更好的一個互動\n\n03:23.593 --> 03:46.048\n那農業部現在在積極的去推動就是由專業的養殖的青農來在光電的規劃的一開始就進去去協助做最適當的光電的設置規劃以前不是以前是光電業者自己隨便蓋然後他不會養他就養其他的專業養殖者那個都是應付的啦\n\n03:46.768 --> 04:02.462\n那個保定你要繼續努力啦博博要紙上談兵我今天跟你談的是很具體我們非常努力去做這個不是保定保定我今天跟你講這個案子是這個案子目前在你的農業部在種材它已經被嘉義縣政府因為沒辦法養嘛\n\n04:04.540 --> 04:21.932\n所以他已經被農業被嘉義縣政府已經取消了他這個容許那個許可耶一直整個都停擺啊我先講一下這個案子現在就是處理那一區的保溫對啊現在就是這個案子嘛這個案子大可憐你知道嗎現在業者台米是跟這個漁民啊求償多少錢你知道嗎\n\n04:30.698 --> 04:58.106\n一億三千四百五十萬耶這都沒有幾次人嘛他們一千萬要求償一億三千四百五十萬這有沒有很嚴重他說沒辦法睡覺第二個對業者來講台女的說啊我當初政府你要有做這個一定工資嘛對不對所以我才投入這麼多錢啊所以現在變成山蘇啊我記得要求很明確第一個這個案子很嚴重這個媒體報的好多次了上禮拜還在報嘛\n\n04:59.617 --> 05:17.365\n我請部長你們要完全掌握我下去考察的時候你們的市長是有去的啊這個案子第一個你們現在在種材莊第一個他已經是一個荒廢狀態現在打官司跟討論的過程我拜託你一件事情你們農業部不能騎公車看賣相談啦\n\n05:20.663 --> 05:35.114\n你們要照顧農民嘛好不好盡快進行這個普破王來著急你只要把這個看要怎麼去改善對不對讓魚可以繼續養我剛才說了這四個大吹屍都是有辦法可以改善的改善完不要再求償\n\n05:37.396 --> 06:01.298\n我跟委員報告這個案場現在我所知道的訊息是已經改善完整已經在放養泰國蝦了那至於說台泥跟那個那個成豬的農民之間的關係那這個東西我想我們會站在客觀的立場去因為農民因為這是個案不是全案個案的部分他跟台泥之間的要求然後台泥去求賞我相信會牽涉到一些\n\n06:02.459 --> 06:18.424\n私人的事情啦那我想我們會去了解然後如果說是針對農民是有理的部分我想我們一定會站在協助的角度要去照顧我們基層這些農民啦這個不是只有這個案子這個案例已經撤回訴訟了\n\n06:19.804 --> 06:46.860\n有撤回訴訟已經撤回訴訟那很好那你們要更進一步要協調他們最理想的就是可以讓他重新有魚嘛沒有現在已經改了要改好你們都去關心他們那事實上我實地界考察也不是只有這個案子碰到問題旁邊那個插滿集中的有幾個漁民都在陳情現在請那個部長跟那個農業部好不好你們去第一個去關心他們他們碰到問題幫他們解決第二個我知道你們這個\n\n06:48.061 --> 07:06.010\n定型這個企業啦其實一開始只要出現這個問題他就那個企業本身定的那個內容啊移民都看不懂嘛對不對所以你後來你有把定型化這個企業對三方定型化企業你們要下去一不小心關心你們把這個企業齁跟他們輔導一下就是說你一定要去努力要照顧好自己的潛力好不好\n\n07:08.151 --> 07:29.440\n我想我非常重要就是過往的那個光電的一些比較混亂的地方那我們在內部已經重新調整我們會以更積極的服務的態度去協助而不是說只提供土地的變更或者土地的容許啦那其他的是由光電業者跟農民自己來啦我想我們會用更積極的輔導作為去做\n\n07:31.521 --> 07:53.281\n我們積極一點共同去關心啦要不然幫他們解決問題特別我講的定型化企業那個好好做好不好另外我問一下剛才其實有其他立委問到了就是婚齡管政部所在講他說剛講的是餘電共生嘛現在是農地農電共生這個問題好像一個婚齡嘛超過五千名的這個農民面臨他的這個農保可能要退保\n\n07:54.626 --> 08:09.916\n可能要退保我自己也跟這個問題台南也有他們是響應國家的政策啊要推動光電那這個要怎麼幫這些人民我跟委員報告我覺得有一些媒體下錯標了而且是惡意的下標就是針對老農針對洋套殺\n\n08:12.961 --> 08:36.106\n年紀超過65歲的他農保可以不需要持有土地所以這個部分是完全百分之百沒問題超過65歲以上的老農沒有那個0.1公頃對沒有這個已經解開了所以65以上解決那65以下呢所以沒有老農養套上這些問題我必須要澄清所以65歲以下呢\n\n08:38.067 --> 08:49.304\n65歲以下的話我們今天業務有提出來一個調整作為你如果配合國家的能源政策你提供這些土地出租以後那我們會鬆綁讓他繼續維持有農保的資格\n\n08:53.863 --> 09:10.198\n所以董事長你為什麼要下令各個縣市在前面去做這個清查我跟議員報告龍寶的清查是一直在做的而不是特別清查然後這次會發文是因為審計部在做後台勾擊的時候他覺得有一些\n\n09:11.199 --> 09:38.084\n一律要釐清不是說那些人就全部違規他說一律要釐清然後要我們盡速的去釐清所以我們在做這樣的一個處理那另外一個就是我想有委員要求我們說我們都放任光電的農民都還可以繼續有農保也要求我們去清查所以我們才同步去清查的這個是有史以來歷年來最大規模的農保資格清查要讓我們農民可以安心好不好\n\n09:39.004 --> 10:01.851\n所以部長你剛講65歲以上的放心然後以下的怎麼讓他們可以放心這個要進一步清清楚楚的說明對我們已經非常清楚而且我們後續會盡快的修改相關的辦法然後最近我想我們也會發文先請縣市政府暫停暫停光電的部分光電的部分我們有一些調整暫行清查這個很重要你說會先\n\n10:02.991 --> 10:12.200\n發文給各個縣市政府光電的農地這部分我想我們先暫時因為我們要修改他們的辦法部長我最後做三點這個結論第一個\n\n10:14.929 --> 10:34.809\n對於過往有實際務農這個狀況可是他不管是在餘電共生或者是農電共生你要審定標準如果沒有達到的盡量往放寬的方向去走好不好保住他們這個農保的這個資格若是說這對他來講很重要重寬重寬啊第二件給你重重的第二件定型化這個企業啦你針對這個\n\n10:36.391 --> 10:51.442\n我的了解是這個漁電共生已經有幾個版本一直在修定型化企業農地農電共生好像還沒有對不對我們沒有開沒有開那你要跟經濟部討論一下可以比照漁電共生趕快嗎沒有我農地不開\n\n10:52.996 --> 11:07.215\n農地不開光電他們有些農地你不是已經那是變更農地變更對農地變更那是變更土地變更以後就做的對我現在你說變更完了現在就是如果有農地或者是農民他做了這個\n\n11:08.436 --> 11:34.986\n他要去跟業者要合作做我們的國家政策我們不同意農地我們現在不同意農地那你現在有某些農地我們家是漁店然後那個溫室的溫室栽培的屋頂可以像你剛才說你們這些人當地的問題這些農民你應該是要怎麼去幫他你就應該給他一個沒有就是漁店的部分是沒問題的然後現在在屋頂型的也沒問題這個我們都可以來處理但是\n\n11:35.973 --> 12:04.206\n那個陸地的光電設施我們目前並沒有開沒有開放嘛我是說如果有些農民碰到這個問題你要去幫他們解決啦好不好要多一點輔導多一點多一點協助好最後一個針對這個農民跟養殖這個漁民啊如果配合政府的農電共生跟漁電共生政策可是後來這個土地發生了像剛剛在講的污染啦埋了什麼廢棄物啦環境改變或者是什麼電廠設計跟施工你導致他根本就沒辦法再種農或者務農或者是養殖的時候\n\n12:05.006 --> 12:21.360\n搞不好後來導致他連那個農民的身份都被取消嘛或者一定時間裡面都沒辦法從事欸你還說這個很可憐喔結果有時候還被業者回過頭來要去求償他我請也算拜託啦也要求農業部這我硬要做的齁我原本說過往就是齁\n\n12:22.501 --> 12:39.788\n地主租了以後他根本不去看現場光電就被亂蓋了現在我們希望說在蓋的規劃的時候我們這些養殖的青龍就要一起去設計然後去看他的施工會不會有影響他的汙染影響後續的養殖這個部分我們會做\n\n12:40.328 --> 13:05.013\n你不用清農而已啦,包括老農、中農都一樣啦,所以農民都要,尤其是年紀越大了,可能他那個法律上的那個錢,他比較沒有這個經驗嘛,所以我一方面是要求,一方面是拜託農業部,一定拜託一下,一定要做這個事情,就是要多幫幫他們啦,所以包括他們可能有時候被人家求償、被餓死,你們要站在農民的這個角度,跟他們立場,多保護他們,多照顧,包括,對,保證,在剛才的案件一樣,\n\n13:07.213 --> 13:21.329\n去幫他們協商好不好都照顧我們的農民你現在不是只有一邊化解那個酋長這個問題然後盡量如果說他們受到不利的侵害有時候錯在業者對不對業者比較強大嘛都幫幫我們這個漁民跟農民自己到該有的權利好不好這三點請具體的落實好不好好謝謝我們張祺凱偉\n\n","segments":[{"start":17.794,"end":36.461,"text":"請保定好 我們再請部長各位好保定 我們現在來關心我們台灣同基層同線量的農民我想請你跟我一起追一個很悲傷"},{"start":38.203,"end":61.564,"text":"也是很多這個漁民啊碰到的這個困擾我要給你看的這個個案,來下一張圖,這個是漁民業者跟政府三叔的一個漁電共生的這個案子那我們共同來努力,現在大家都急來捕破網,我給你看,我們來看一下這個圖,請播下一張後面你看,這就是"},{"start":63.308,"end":81.191,"text":"這就是嘉義議長號稱我們全台灣第一個餘電共生的第一案在嘉義議長的台女餘電共生的案子你看喔這本來是很好的一個疑問嘛對不對你對農民我了解這疑問本來很好結果為了要推動這個餘電共生他業者進去施工 你看"},{"start":90.134,"end":117.09,"text":"竟然有人把那個基樁插滿在魚塭裡面這是第一個大問題嘛這怎麼養魚怎麼縮成第二個 上面都蓋滿了這個太陽能光電板你想三百米 三百米一定要有陽光啊文革也要有陽光啊所以就起不來那業者也試著說把那個蝦子丟進去養看看也死掉了 沒陽光啦好 那第三個問題你看看那個邊坡啊 就那個土堤"},{"start":118.09,"end":145.912,"text":"保證你看那個土堤你是農業部長你一定知道這個土啊一定是要用這個黏土嘛各個業者都去用那個砂紙的這個土電線還要通離境啊土堤怎麼會有人是傾斜的那就讓他們沖刷整個都往池塘裡面去了保證所以漁民就沒辦法本來要好好的漁溫本來要漁電共生嘛結果漁死了沒有漁電也沒有來所以漁民輸了"},{"start":147.816,"end":159.851,"text":"政府也輸了 業者也輸 山蘇我們現在有機會來補救啦我希望這個島 你去看叫你去 你這個專家去 你也沒辦法養嘛 對不對對不對現在應該已經改善了嘛已經改善了"},{"start":161.423,"end":180.848,"text":"我上禮拜還去問啊怎麼改善它有一部分如果是這個積裝在外面這個目前是可以的如果有好幾個個案都是積裝在裡面的我跟委員報告魚電共生基本上光電的覆蓋率是40%第二件事情就是魚電共生之下的養殖的魚種根據我們水市所"},{"start":181.508,"end":202.873,"text":"他有針對不同的魚種包括蝦子包括吳郭魚大概有十種的魚種是可以適合養不是說任何的魚種一定要百分之百的陽光因為它是覆蓋率是百分之四十的第三個部分是現在最重要的一個問題就是光電業者跟成豬業者跟地主之間應該有一個更好的一個互動"},{"start":203.593,"end":226.048,"text":"那農業部現在在積極的去推動就是由專業的養殖的青農來在光電的規劃的一開始就進去去協助做最適當的光電的設置規劃以前不是 以前是光電業者自己隨便蓋然後他不會養 他就養其他的專業養殖者那個都是應付的啦"},{"start":226.768,"end":242.462,"text":"那個保定你要繼續努力啦博博要紙上談兵我今天跟你談的是很具體我們非常努力去做這個不是保定保定我今天跟你講這個案子是這個案子目前在你的農業部在種材它已經被嘉義縣政府因為沒辦法養嘛"},{"start":244.54,"end":261.932,"text":"所以他已經被農業 被嘉義縣政府已經取消了他這個容許那個許可耶一直整個都停擺啊我先講一下這個案子現在就是處理那一區的保溫對啊 現在就是這個案子嘛 這個案子大可憐 你知道嗎現在業者台米是跟這個漁民啊 求償多少錢 你知道嗎"},{"start":270.698,"end":298.106,"text":"一億三千四百五十萬耶這都沒有幾次人嘛 他們一千萬要求償一億三千四百五十萬這有沒有很嚴重他說沒辦法睡覺第二個對業者來講台女的說啊我當初政府你要有做這個一定工資嘛 對不對所以我才投入這麼多錢啊所以現在變成山蘇啊我記得要求很明確第一個這個案子很嚴重這個媒體報的好多次了上禮拜還在報嘛"},{"start":299.617,"end":317.365,"text":"我請部長你們要完全掌握我下去考察的時候你們的市長是有去的啊這個案子第一個你們現在在種材莊第一個他已經是一個荒廢狀態現在打官司跟討論的過程我拜託你一件事情你們農業部不能騎公車看賣相談啦"},{"start":320.663,"end":335.114,"text":"你們要照顧農民嘛好不好盡快進行這個普破王來著急你只要把這個看要怎麼去改善對不對讓魚可以繼續養我剛才說了這四個大吹屍都是有辦法可以改善的改善完不要再求償"},{"start":337.396,"end":361.298,"text":"我跟委員報告這個案場現在我所知道的訊息是已經改善完整已經在放養泰國蝦了那至於說台泥跟那個那個成豬的農民之間的關係那這個東西我想我們會站在客觀的立場去因為農民因為這是個案不是全案個案的部分他跟台泥之間的要求然後台泥去求賞我相信會牽涉到一些"},{"start":362.459,"end":378.424,"text":"私人的事情啦那我想我們會去了解然後如果說是針對農民是有理的部分我想我們一定會站在協助的角度要去照顧我們基層這些農民啦這個不是只有這個案子這個案例已經撤回訴訟了"},{"start":379.804,"end":406.86,"text":"有撤回訴訟已經撤回訴訟那很好那你們要更進一步要協調他們最理想的就是可以讓他重新有魚嘛沒有現在已經改了要改好你們都去關心他們那事實上我實地界考察也不是只有這個案子碰到問題旁邊那個插滿集中的有幾個漁民都在陳情現在請那個部長跟那個農業部好不好你們去第一個去關心他們他們碰到問題幫他們解決第二個我知道你們這個"},{"start":408.061,"end":426.01,"text":"定型這個企業啦其實一開始只要出現這個問題他就那個企業本身定的那個內容啊移民都看不懂嘛 對不對所以你後來你有把定型化這個企業對 三方定型化企業你們要下去一不小心關心你們把這個企業齁跟他們輔導一下就是說你一定要去努力要照顧好自己的潛力好不好"},{"start":428.151,"end":449.44,"text":"我想我非常重要就是過往的那個光電的一些比較混亂的地方那我們在內部已經重新調整我們會以更積極的服務的態度去協助而不是說只提供土地的變更或者土地的容許啦那其他的是由光電業者跟農民自己來啦我想我們會用更積極的輔導作為去做"},{"start":451.521,"end":473.281,"text":"我們積極一點 共同去關心啦要不然幫他們解決問題 特別我講的定型化企業那個好好做好不好另外我問一下 剛才其實有其他立委問到了就是婚齡 管政部所在講他說剛講的是餘電共生嘛 現在是農地 農電共生這個問題好像一個婚齡嘛 超過五千名的這個農民面臨他的這個農保可能要退保"},{"start":474.626,"end":489.916,"text":"可能要退保我自己也跟這個問題 台南也有他們是響應國家的政策啊要推動光電那這個要怎麼幫這些人民我跟委員報告我覺得有一些媒體下錯標了而且是惡意的下標就是針對老農 針對洋套殺"},{"start":492.961,"end":516.106,"text":"年紀超過65歲的他農保可以不需要持有土地所以這個部分是完全百分之百沒問題超過65歲以上的老農沒有那個0.1公頃對沒有這個已經解開了所以65以上解決那65以下呢所以沒有老農養套上這些問題我必須要澄清所以65歲以下呢"},{"start":518.067,"end":529.304,"text":"65歲以下的話我們今天業務有提出來一個調整作為你如果配合國家的能源政策你提供這些土地出租以後那我們會鬆綁讓他繼續維持有農保的資格"},{"start":533.863,"end":550.198,"text":"所以董事長你為什麼要下令各個縣市在前面去做這個清查我跟議員報告龍寶的清查是一直在做的而不是特別清查然後這次會發文是因為審計部在做後台勾擊的時候他覺得有一些"},{"start":551.199,"end":578.084,"text":"一律要釐清不是說那些人就全部違規他說一律要釐清然後要我們盡速的去釐清所以我們在做這樣的一個處理那另外一個就是我想有委員要求我們說我們都放任光電的農民都還可以繼續有農保也要求我們去清查所以我們才同步去清查的這個是有史以來歷年來最大規模的農保資格清查要讓我們農民可以安心好不好"},{"start":579.004,"end":601.851,"text":"所以部長你剛講65歲以上的放心然後以下的怎麼讓他們可以放心這個要進一步清清楚楚的說明對我們已經非常清楚而且我們後續會盡快的修改相關的辦法然後最近我想我們也會發文先請縣市政府暫停暫停光電的部分光電的部分我們有一些調整暫行清查這個很重要你說會先"},{"start":602.991,"end":612.2,"text":"發文給各個縣市政府光電的農地這部分我想我們先暫時因為我們要修改他們的辦法部長我最後做三點這個結論第一個"},{"start":614.929,"end":634.809,"text":"對於過往有實際務農這個狀況可是他不管是在餘電共生或者是農電共生你要審定標準如果沒有達到的盡量往放寬的方向去走好不好保住他們這個農保的這個資格若是說這對他來講很重要重寬重寬啊第二件給你重重的第二件定型化這個企業啦你針對這個"},{"start":636.391,"end":651.442,"text":"我的了解是這個漁電共生已經有幾個版本一直在修定型化企業農地農電共生好像還沒有對不對我們沒有開沒有開那你要跟經濟部討論一下可以比照漁電共生趕快嗎沒有我農地不開"},{"start":652.996,"end":667.215,"text":"農地不開光電他們有些農地你不是已經那是變更農地變更對農地變更那是變更土地變更以後就做的對我現在你說變更完了現在就是如果有農地或者是農民他做了這個"},{"start":668.436,"end":694.986,"text":"他要去跟業者要合作做我們的國家政策我們不同意農地我們現在不同意農地那你現在有某些農地我們家是漁店然後那個溫室的溫室栽培的屋頂可以像你剛才說你們這些人當地的問題這些農民你應該是要怎麼去幫他你就應該給他一個沒有就是漁店的部分是沒問題的然後現在在屋頂型的也沒問題這個我們都可以來處理但是"},{"start":695.973,"end":724.206,"text":"那個陸地的光電設施我們目前並沒有開沒有開放嘛我是說如果有些農民碰到這個問題你要去幫他們解決啦好不好要多一點輔導多一點多一點協助好最後一個針對這個農民跟養殖這個漁民啊如果配合政府的農電共生跟漁電共生政策可是後來這個土地發生了像剛剛在講的污染啦埋了什麼廢棄物啦環境改變或者是什麼電廠設計跟施工你導致他根本就沒辦法再種農或者務農或者是養殖的時候"},{"start":725.006,"end":741.36,"text":"搞不好後來導致他連那個農民的身份都被取消嘛或者一定時間裡面都沒辦法從事欸你還說這個很可憐喔結果有時候還被業者回過頭來要去求償他我請 也算拜託啦也要求農業部這我硬要做的齁我原本說過往就是齁"},{"start":742.501,"end":759.788,"text":"地主租了以後他根本不去看現場光電就被亂蓋了現在我們希望說在蓋的規劃的時候我們這些養殖的青龍就要一起去設計然後去看他的施工會不會有影響他的汙染影響後續的養殖這個部分我們會做"},{"start":760.328,"end":785.013,"text":"你不用清農而已啦,包括老農、中農都一樣啦,所以農民都要,尤其是年紀越大了,可能他那個法律上的那個錢,他比較沒有這個經驗嘛,所以我一方面是要求,一方面是拜託農業部,一定拜託一下,一定要做這個事情,就是要多幫幫他們啦,所以包括他們可能有時候被人家求償、被餓死,你們要站在農民的這個角度,跟他們立場,多保護他們,多照顧,包括,對,保證,在剛才的案件一樣,"},{"start":787.213,"end":801.329,"text":"去幫他們協商好不好都照顧我們的農民你現在不是只有一邊化解那個酋長這個問題然後盡量如果說他們受到不利的侵害有時候錯在業者對不對業者比較強大嘛都幫幫我們這個漁民跟農民自己到該有的權利好不好這三點請具體的落實好不好好 謝謝我們張祺凱偉"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":252,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（10時21分）多謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：再請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，我們現在來關心臺灣最基層、最善良的農民。我想請你跟我一起追一個很悲傷、也是很多漁民碰到的困擾，我要給你看這個個案，這是漁民、業者跟政府三輸的漁電共生案子，我們共同來努力，現在還來得及補破網。","我們來看一下這個圖。部長，你看，這是嘉義義竹號稱全臺灣漁電共生的第一案，就是台泥漁電共生的案子。你看，這本來是很好的魚塭，對不對？你對農民也很瞭解。這個魚塭本來好好的，結果為了要推動漁電共生，業者進去施工，竟然有人把基樁插滿在魚塭裡面，這是第一個大問題，這怎麼養魚？怎麼收成？第二個，上面都蓋滿了太陽能光電板，像虱目魚一定要陽光，文蛤也要陽光，所以就養不活，業者也試著把蝦子丟進去養看看，也死掉了，因為沒有陽光。第三個問題是，部長，你看看那個邊坡、那個土堤，你是農業部部長，你一定知道，這個土一定要用黏土，結果業者竟然用沙質的土。第四個，最離譜的是，怎麼會有土堤是傾斜的？遇到下雨不就整個沖刷都往池塘裡面去了？部長，所以一個好好的魚塭，本來要漁電共生，結果魚死了、沒有魚，電也沒有來，所以漁民輸了，政府輸了，業者也輸了，三輸，我們有機會要來補救。請你看這張圖，叫你這個專家去，你也沒辦法養，對不對？對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：現在應該已經改善了嘛？"],["莊司長老達：已經改善了。"],["張委員啓楷：我上禮拜還去問，什麼改善？如果有一部分的基樁在外面，目前是可以的，但是有好幾個個案都是基樁在裡面的。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，漁電共生基本上光電的覆蓋率是40%。第二件事情就是，漁電共生之下養殖的魚種，根據我們水試所針對不同魚種的試驗結果，包括蝦子、吳郭魚，大概有10種魚種適合養，不是任何魚種一定要100%的陽光，因為它的覆蓋率是40%。第三個部分，現在最重要的問題就是光電業者、承租業者跟地主之間應該有一個更好的互動，農業部現在在積極地推動由專業養殖的青農，在光電規劃的一開始，就進去協助做最適當光電的設置規劃，以前不是這樣，以前是光電業者自己隨便蓋，他不會養，就請其他的專業養殖者，那個都是應付的啦。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你要繼續努力，不要紙上談兵，我今天跟你談的是很具體……"],["陳部長駿季：我們非常努力地去做這個。"],["張委員啓楷：沒有、沒有，聽我講，部長，我今天跟你講的這個案子目前在你農業部在仲裁，因為沒辦法養，所以它已經被嘉義縣政府取消農業設施容許使用許可，它是整個都停擺了，我今天問你……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告……"],["張委員啓楷：我先講一下，這個案子……"],["陳部長駿季：台泥的部分，6區裡面只有1區有問題，現在就是處理那一區的部分。"],["張委員啓楷：對，現在這個案子多可憐，你知道嗎？現在業者、台泥跟漁民求償多少錢，你知道嗎？1億3,450萬耶！漁民一輩子也賺不到1,000萬，卻被求償1億3,450萬，這有沒有很嚴重？他都沒辦法睡覺。第二個，對業者來講，台泥有說當初政府要他們做漁電共生，所以他們才投入這麼多錢，結果現在變成三輸。","我今天的要求很明確：第一個，這個案子很嚴重，媒體報導好多次了，上個禮拜還在報導，我請部長要完全掌握，我下去……"],["陳部長駿季：我們隨時關切這個議案。"],["張委員啓楷：對，部長，我下去考察的時候，你們的次長就有去了。第一個，這個案子現在在仲裁中；第二個，它已經是一個荒廢狀態，在打官司跟討論的過程。我拜託你一件事情，你們農業部不能「徛懸山看馬相踢」，你們要照顧農民，好不好？要儘快進行協商，補破網還來得及，只要看看怎麼去改善，讓魚可以繼續養。我剛才跟你說了，這4個大缺失都是有辦法可以改善的，改善完，不要再求償，老實講，這會逼死漁民！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，現在我所知道的訊息是這個案場改善完成，已經在放養泰國蝦了。至於台泥跟承租農民之間的關係，我們會站在客觀的立場去處理，因為這是個案，不是通案。個案的部分，基於他跟台泥之間的要求，台泥去求償，我相信會牽涉到一些私人的事情，我們會去瞭解，針對農民有理的部分，我們一定會站在協助的角度。"],["張委員啓楷：對，要多照顧我們基層的農民，不是只有這個案子……"],["陳部長駿季：台泥已經撤回訴訟了。"],["張委員啓楷：有撤回訴訟？"],["陳部長駿季：已經撤回訴訟。"],["張委員啓楷：那很好！你們要更進一步協調好，最理想的就是可以讓它重新有魚嘛，有電……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，現在就已經改了，已經改善了。"],["張委員啓楷：要改好，你們要去多關心他們，事實上，我實地去考察，也不是只有這個案子碰到問題，旁邊插滿基樁的，有幾個漁民都在陳情，現在請部長跟農業部：第一個，去關心他們，他們碰到問題，幫他們解決；第二個，我知道你們這個定型化契約，其實一開始為什麼會發生這麼多問題？就是因為對契約本身訂的內容，漁民都看不懂，對不對？所以後來你們有訂了一個定型化契約去輔導他……"],["陳部長駿季：對，三方定型化契約。"],["張委員啓楷：對，你們要下去，不只是關心，你們還要把這個契約跟他們輔導一下，一定要去落實，讓他們照顧好自己的權益，好不好？這件事情很重要喔！"],["陳部長駿季：非常重要的就是過往光電比較混亂的地方，我們在內部已經重新調整，我們會以更積極服務的態度去協助，而不是只提供土地的變更或者土地的容許，其他的是由光電業者跟農民自己來，我們會用更積極的輔導作為去做。"],["張委員啓楷：積極一點，多去關心，一方面幫他們解決問題，特別是我講的定型化契約的部分要好好做，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["張委員啓楷：另外，我問一下，剛才其實有其他立委問到了，就是雲林縣政府出來說，剛剛講的是漁電共生，現在是農電共生的問題，光是一個雲林，就有超過5,000名農民面臨農保可能要被退保，我們嘉義也遇到這個問題，臺南也有，他們是響應國家的政策推動光電，要怎麼幫這些農民？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，我覺得有一些媒體下錯標了，而且是惡意地下標，就是針對老農、針對養套殺，事實上年紀超過65歲的農民投保農保可以不需要持有土地，所以這個部分是完全百分之百沒問題，然後現在清查的……"],["張委員啓楷：來，我們讓全國農民知道，超過65歲以上的老農沒有0.1公頃農地的限制。"],["陳部長駿季：對，沒有，這個已經解開了……"],["張委員啓楷：所以65歲以上解決，那65歲以下呢？"],["陳部長駿季：所以沒有老農「養套殺」這些問題，我必須要慎重澄清……"],["張委員啓楷：所以65歲以下呢？"],["陳部長駿季：65歲以下的話，我們今天業務報告有提出一個調整作為，如果配合國家的能源政策提供土地出租以後，那我們會鬆綁，讓他繼續維持有農保的資格。"],["張委員啓楷：所以，你當初為什麼要下令各個縣市去做這個清查？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，農保的清查是一直在做的，而不是特別清查。這一次會發文是因為審計部在做後臺勾稽的時候，它覺得有一些疑慮要釐清，不是說那些人都全部違規。它說有些疑慮要我們儘速釐清，所以我們做這樣的處理。另外一個，有委員跟我們說，我們都放任光電的農民還可以繼續有農保，也要求我們去清查，所以我們才同步去清查的。"],["張委員啓楷：這個是有史以來，歷年來最大規模的農保資格清查，要讓我們農民可以安心，好不好？所以部長你剛剛講……"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們一定是……"],["張委員啓楷：65歲以上的放心，65歲以下的怎麼讓他們可以放心？要進一步清清楚楚的說明。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們已經非常清楚，而且我們後續會儘快修改相關的辦法，最近我們也會發文先請縣市政府暫停光電的部分，光電的部分我們有一些調整……"],["張委員啓楷：這個很重要，你說會先發文給各個縣市政府。"],["陳部長駿季：對，光電的部分喔！"],["張委員啓楷：農地這個部分會先暫停。"],["陳部長駿季：對，這個部分因為我們要修改相關的辦法。"],["張委員啓楷：好，部長，我最後做三點結論：第一個，對於過往有實際務農狀況，可是不管是在漁電共生或農電共生，審定標準如果沒有達到的，儘量往放寬的方向去走，好不好？保住農保的資格，老實說這個對他們來說很重要，從寬、從寬；第二個，最重要的就是定型化契約，我的了解是漁電共生已經有幾個版本一直在修定型化契約了，農電共生好像還沒有，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：我們沒有開。"],["張委員啓楷：沒有開，那你要跟經濟部討論一下，可以比照漁電共生一樣嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，農地不開。"],["張委員啓楷：什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：農地不開光電。"],["張委員啓楷：他們有些農地不是已經都在做太陽能，怎麼沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：那是變更，農地變更。"],["張委員啓楷：農地變更。"],["陳部長駿季：那是土地變更以後去做的。"],["張委員啓楷：你是說變更完？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["張委員啓楷：現在是如果有農地或農民，他要去跟業者合作，響應國家政策。"],["陳部長駿季：我們不同意，農地我們現在不同意。"],["張委員啓楷：農地？那你現在有哪些同意？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在是漁電，溫室栽培的屋頂可以。"],["張委員啓楷：像剛剛說的雲林縣這些人遇到了問題，這些農民你應該要怎麼去幫他？應該給他一個……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，漁電的部分是沒問題的，現在屋頂型的也沒問題，這個我們都可以來處理，但是陸地的光電設施，我們目前並沒有開。"],["張委員啓楷：沒有開放，我是說如果有些農民碰到這個問題，你要去幫他們解決，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會來協助。"],["張委員啓楷：多一點輔導、多一點協助。","最後一個，針對農民跟養殖漁民，如果配合政府的農電共生跟漁電共生政策，可是後來土地發生了，像剛剛講的污染、埋了什麼廢棄物、環境改變或電廠設計跟施工，導致他根本就沒辦法再種農、務農或養殖的時候，搞不好後來導致他連農民身分都被取消，或者一定時間裡面都沒辦法從事，老實說這也很可憐，結果有時候業者還回過頭向他求償，我請……也算拜託啦，也要求農業部……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，這是我應該做的。跟委員報告，過往就是地主租了之後，他根本不去看現場，光電就在那邊亂蓋了。現在我們希望在規劃的時候，這些養殖的青農就要一起去設計，然後去看施工會不會有污染影響後續的養殖，這個部分我們會做。"],["張委員啓楷：不只青農而已，包括老農、中農都一樣啦！所有農民都要……"],["陳部長駿季：只要是從事養殖的農民。"],["張委員啓楷：尤其是年紀越大的，可能在法律上以前他比較沒有這個經驗。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會來努力。"],["張委員啓楷：所以我一方面是要求、一方面是拜託農業部，拜託一定要做到這件事，就是要多幫幫他們，包括他們可能有時候被業者求償，你們要站在農民的角度跟立場多保護他們、多照顧……"],["陳部長駿季：不用你拜託，我們就會做了……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，就跟剛剛那個案子一樣，去幫他們協商，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["張委員啓楷：多照顧我們的農民，你現在不只有……一定要化解那個求償的問題，如果他們受到不利的侵害，有時候錯在業者，業者比較強大嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我們會來協助。"],["張委員啓楷：多幫幫漁民跟農民自己該有的權利，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["張委員啓楷：好，這三點請具體的落實，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["張委員啓楷：謝謝部長。"],["主席：好，謝謝張啓楷委員。","非常感謝，經濟委員會大家都非常以農為主，好好的討論政策，我們現在休息，謝謝。","休息（10時35分）","繼續開會（10時58分）"],["主席（賴委員瑞隆代）：我們繼續開會。","接下來請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":368,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-5","speakers":["蔡易餘","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","陳超明","翁曉玲","邱志偉","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","郭國文","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","鄭正鈐","李坤城","黃捷","徐欣瑩","張雅琳","陳冠廷","王美惠","林德福"],"page_start":301,"meetingDate":["2025-03-26"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00005"}}}