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\"前世的相關的這些政策要做一個充分的溝通而不是讓外界語言突然蹦出來一個這個議題讓他們措手不及所以針對這個部分我想我們內部的這些標準作業程序我們也再做一個調整\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 61.812, \"end\": 62.113, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 62.113, \"end\": 62.253, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 62.253, \"end\": 62.433, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 62.433, \"end\": 62.974, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 62.974, \"end\": 63.335, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 63.335, \"end\": 63.575, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 63.575, \"end\": 63.815, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 63.815, \"end\": 64.076, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 64.076, \"end\": 64.296, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 64.296, \"end\": 64.477, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 64.477, \"end\": 64.717, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"充\", \"start\": 64.717, \"end\": 64.897, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 64.897, \"end\": 64.997, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 64.997, \"end\": 65.338, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 65.338, \"end\": 65.939, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 65.939, \"end\": 66.039, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 66.039, \"end\": 66.139, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 66.139, \"end\": 66.921, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 66.921, \"end\": 67.061, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 67.061, \"end\": 67.281, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 67.281, \"end\": 67.482, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"突\", \"start\": 67.482, \"end\": 67.582, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 67.582, \"end\": 67.782, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"蹦\", \"start\": 67.782, \"end\": 67.962, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 67.962, 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{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 71.709, \"end\": 71.809, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 71.809, \"end\": 71.969, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 71.969, \"end\": 72.35, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 72.35, \"end\": 72.49, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 72.49, \"end\": 72.71, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 72.71, \"end\": 73.091, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 73.091, \"end\": 73.412, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 73.412, \"end\": 73.672, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 73.672, \"end\": 73.872, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 73.872, \"end\": 74.013, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 74.013, \"end\": 74.213, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 74.213, \"end\": 74.353, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 74.353, \"end\": 74.513, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 74.513, \"end\": 74.674, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 74.674, \"end\": 75.114, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 75.114, \"end\": 75.134, \"score\": 0.992}]}, {\"start\": 75.54, \"end\": 103.726, \"text\": \"好謝謝因為上個禮拜其實有討論一個叫做分級分類的一個管理那當時其實當動保跟東農院部的動保處動保司發通知給我們民間團體的時候他們其實在上禮拜一的時候希望可以增加民間的專家學者而是到禮拜一的時候給一直告訴我們說禮拜四的會議可是禮拜一給就說作業不及我想我們這邊其實也是非常希望的可以讓民間更多的參與讓大家可以來收容意見那下次這樣子的情形是不是可以不要再有了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 75.54, \"end\": 76.38, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 76.38, \"end\": 76.58, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 76.58, \"end\": 76.88, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"禮\"}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 76.88, \"end\": 77.02, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 77.02, \"end\": 77.24, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 77.24, \"end\": 77.54, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 77.54, \"end\": 77.78, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"叫\", \"start\": 77.78, \"end\": 77.881, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 77.881, \"end\": 78.061, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 78.061, \"end\": 78.581, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"級\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 78.581, \"end\": 78.941, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 78.941, \"end\": 79.041, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 79.041, \"end\": 79.321, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 79.321, \"end\": 79.561, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 79.561, \"end\": 80.161, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 80.161, \"end\": 80.821, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": 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102.006, \"end\": 102.086, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 102.086, \"end\": 102.166, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 102.166, \"end\": 102.486, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 102.486, \"end\": 102.666, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 102.666, \"end\": 102.766, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 102.766, \"end\": 102.826, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 102.826, \"end\": 102.926, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 102.926, \"end\": 102.946, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 102.946, \"end\": 103.066, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 103.066, \"end\": 103.146, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 103.146, \"end\": 103.326, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 103.326, \"end\": 103.506, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 103.506, \"end\": 103.706, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 103.706, \"end\": 103.726, \"score\": 0.002}]}, {\"start\": 104.006, \"end\": 127.825, \"text\": \"我覺得下次絕對不會發生現在的那些那些邀請也好或是什麼也好其實電子郵件一下子就可以確認了嘛對啊因為我其實不能理解那有一些是除了閉門會議閉門會議的委員不能臨時外加以外那其他的只要是溝通的邀請專家的部分我已經跟他們講就是說希望說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 104.006, \"end\": 104.286, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 104.286, \"end\": 104.587, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 104.587, \"end\": 104.767, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 104.767, \"end\": 105.107, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 105.107, \"end\": 105.527, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 105.527, \"end\": 106.668, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 106.668, \"end\": 106.848, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 106.848, \"end\": 108.13, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 108.13, \"end\": 108.27, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": 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{\"start\": 287.931, \"end\": 316.683, \"text\": \"我想可能因為其實我們也有看到一些案例嘛它有的不是一次兩次有到三次四次它都還沒有沒落嘛那剛剛當然有收容的問題可是我覺得這個財量標準應該有必要找地方縣市政府一起來討論一個一致性因為應該不會有台北市的命比較貴重然後哪個地方命比較賤吧應該沒有吧對不對所以我們應該要用一視同仁的標準來去確認這件事情所以是不是可以召開相關的會議來把我們各縣市的財量標準拉起呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 287.931, \"end\": 288.071, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 288.071, \"end\": 288.271, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 288.271, \"end\": 288.391, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 288.391, \"end\": 288.531, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 288.531, \"end\": 288.792, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 288.792, \"end\": 288.992, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 288.992, \"end\": 289.032, \"score\": 0.491}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 289.032, \"end\": 289.152, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 289.152, \"end\": 289.292, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 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0.943}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 331.33, \"end\": 332.331, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 332.331, \"end\": 332.471, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 332.471, \"end\": 332.651, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 332.651, \"end\": 333.011, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 333.011, \"end\": 333.131, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 333.131, \"end\": 333.691, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 333.691, \"end\": 333.831, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 333.831, \"end\": 333.992, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 333.992, \"end\": 334.152, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"引\", \"start\": 334.152, \"end\": 334.272, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 334.272, \"end\": 334.292, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 335.197, \"end\": 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00:00:14,173\n謝謝我們有請民運部部長好有請部長\n\n2\n00:00:22,371 --> 00:00:43,620\n我想因為去年年底我們公布了一個955的一個禁養關於異種的一個禁養的一個名單所以引發了非常非常多的抗議然後非常多的輿論的批評那所以在1月15號的時候當時我有協調了農業部來跟四組團體一起來做了一個討論釐清這些爭議但我想在整個過程之中其實都是我們沒有跟民眾\n\n3\n00:00:44,820 --> 00:01:00,931\n相關利益團體做一些清楚的溝通所以我覺得是前期上面我們做得不夠好那這一點部長您認同嗎我想我非常認同就是說當我們一個政策下去特別有不同的利害關係的時候我們更應該把一些\n\n4\n00:01:01,812 --> 00:01:15,134\n前世的相關的這些政策要做一個充分的溝通而不是讓外界語言突然蹦出來一個這個議題讓他們措手不及所以針對這個部分我想我們內部的這些標準作業程序我們也再做一個調整\n\n5\n00:01:15,540 --> 00:01:43,726\n好謝謝因為上個禮拜其實有討論一個叫做分級分類的一個管理那當時其實當動保跟東農院部的動保處動保司發通知給我們民間團體的時候他們其實在上禮拜一的時候希望可以增加民間的專家學者而是到禮拜一的時候給一直告訴我們說禮拜四的會議可是禮拜一給就說作業不及我想我們這邊其實也是非常希望的可以讓民間更多的參與讓大家可以來收容意見那下次這樣子的情形是不是可以不要再有了\n\n6\n00:01:44,006 --> 00:02:07,825\n我覺得下次絕對不會發生現在的那些那些邀請也好或是什麼也好其實電子郵件一下子就可以確認了嘛對啊因為我其實不能理解那有一些是除了閉門會議閉門會議的委員不能臨時外加以外那其他的只要是溝通的邀請專家的部分我已經跟他們講就是說希望說\n\n7\n00:02:09,487 --> 00:02:21,336\n就算你開會的當天有人願意來提出他的想法我們都應該很開心的接受好謝謝因為我一直想說禮拜一通知到底為什麼禮拜四還是沒有這樣的時間會作業不緊那不過也非常謝謝部長的積極來處理那因為接下來我們還要來討論就是有關於這些風險評估的一個標準\n\n8\n00:02:29,343 --> 00:02:49,661\n但是因為這裡面會有一些非常主觀的認定就是動物福利跟公共安全所以我想要了解針對這個部分我們有沒有一個相關的時程如何來跟民間團體跟利益團體來做一些溝通呢我們目前有相關的時程嗎我想我們並沒有很明確的什麼時候要公告這個禁止動物禁止飼養的我們講的是風險管理的一些標準\n\n9\n00:02:51,462 --> 00:03:16,892\n我有跟我們棟老師談過希望他們有一個就是第一階段就是要將我們本身對於公共安全對於社會福利還有對於可能逃逸所造成的傷害的部分內部要先有一個有一個類似的一個指引完了以後才去做對外的溝通而不是自己都沒有想法拋出來直接去去廣結意見那樣就會開花很多議題就會開花所以這個部分\n\n10\n00:03:18,593 --> 00:03:32,809\n我希望說他們能夠盡快的提出來然後再把這個時程再提供給委員好我希望我們可以在一個月以內再召開下一次的會議好不好那這個相關的時程是不是可以在一個禮拜左右送給我們辦公室呢一個禮拜可以嗎相關的時程\n\n11\n00:03:33,650 --> 00:04:02,745\n好謝謝那再來還是要回到比特犬的這個問題就是說比特犬剛剛其實黃姐委員也有問的那我想針對一個問題來討論就是說根據《動保法》32條其實當如果這個動物無故侵害他人之生命或身體製造成他人生命或身體傷害之動物就可以得進行沒入嘛32條是這樣規定可是在這個案例裡面其實是間隔了11天那我不曉得部長您對於這樣子的一個處置您的看法是什麼\n\n12\n00:04:03,427 --> 00:04:28,717\n我個人認為就是當然事主跟狗不管他是不是攻擊犬他有他的一個依賴感就是所以我覺得我個人可以接受的是如果出犯你可以類似留校查看第二次的話一定要強制沒入因為第二次表示你有可能再犯了但是因為現在法規寫一個德制那個德制就完全操縱在\n\n13\n00:04:29,830 --> 00:04:47,131\n一個行政的裁量那行政裁量萬一有人關說的時候那就可能就不處理了但是我覺得要有更明確的中央的指引我覺得這個部分我們農業部會來做我想再請教一個問題就是說每一個縣市政府的這個裁量標準你覺得現在是一致的嗎\n\n14\n00:04:47,931 --> 00:05:16,683\n我想可能因為其實我們也有看到一些案例嘛它有的不是一次兩次有到三次四次它都還沒有沒落嘛那剛剛當然有收容的問題可是我覺得這個財量標準應該有必要找地方縣市政府一起來討論一個一致性因為應該不會有台北市的命比較貴重然後哪個地方命比較賤吧應該沒有吧對不對所以我們應該要用一視同仁的標準來去確認這件事情所以是不是可以召開相關的會議來把我們各縣市的財量標準拉起呢\n\n15\n00:05:17,183 --> 00:05:34,292\n我覺得這個我們會立即去做去召開各縣市政府針對這個勾結性的權得冒入這件事情的一個指標跟標準然後如果大家有共識的話我們農業部就會發函到各縣市有一個相關的一個參考的指引這樣子\n\n16\n00:05:35,197 --> 00:06:02,791\n我想我覺得可能也要來瞭解一下地方縣市他們現在在組織的想法是什麼我覺得可能先大家一起來討論之後我們來訂出一個財洋標準我覺得那才是實務上可行的不過我還是要再更正一點提醒一點就是說不是只有攻擊性的不是只有比特犬因為現在咬傷的狗咬傷人的狗並不是只有比特犬像昨天也是有類似的新聞所以我們應該是針對於狗狗的某種行為的狀況之下我們的一個財洋標準要拉起謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11342\t14173\t謝謝 我們有請民運部部長好 有請部長\n22371\t43620\t我想因為去年年底我們公布了一個955的一個禁養關於異種的一個禁養的一個名單所以引發了非常非常多的抗議然後非常多的輿論的批評那所以在1月15號的時候當時我有協調了農業部來跟四組團體一起來做了一個討論 釐清這些爭議但我想在整個過程之中其實都是我們沒有跟民眾\n44820\t60931\t相關利益團體做一些清楚的溝通所以我覺得是前期上面我們做得不夠好那這一點部長您認同嗎我想我非常認同就是說當我們一個政策下去特別有不同的利害關係的時候我們更應該把一些\n61812\t75134\t前世的相關的這些政策要做一個充分的溝通而不是讓外界語言突然蹦出來一個這個議題讓他們措手不及所以針對這個部分我想我們內部的這些標準作業程序我們也再做一個調整\n75540\t103726\t好謝謝因為上個禮拜其實有討論一個叫做分級分類的一個管理那當時其實當動保跟東農院部的動保處動保司發通知給我們民間團體的時候他們其實在上禮拜一的時候希望可以增加民間的專家學者而是到禮拜一的時候給一直告訴我們說禮拜四的會議可是禮拜一給就說作業不及我想我們這邊其實也是非常希望的可以讓民間更多的參與讓大家可以來收容意見那下次這樣子的情形是不是可以不要再有了\n104006\t127825\t我覺得下次絕對不會發生現在的那些那些邀請也好或是什麼也好其實電子郵件一下子就可以確認了嘛對啊因為我其實不能理解那有一些是除了閉門會議閉門會議的委員不能臨時外加以外那其他的只要是溝通的邀請專家的部分我已經跟他們講就是說希望說\n129487\t141336\t就算你開會的當天有人願意來提出他的想法我們都應該很開心的接受好 謝謝因為我一直想說禮拜一通知到底為什麼禮拜四還是沒有這樣的時間會作業不緊那不過也非常謝謝部長的積極來處理那因為接下來我們還要來討論就是有關於這些風險評估的一個標準\n149343\t169661\t但是因為這裡面會有一些非常主觀的認定就是動物福利跟公共安全所以我想要了解針對這個部分我們有沒有一個相關的時程如何來跟民間團體跟利益團體來做一些溝通呢我們目前有相關的時程嗎我想我們並沒有很明確的什麼時候要公告這個禁止動物禁止飼養的我們講的是風險管理的一些標準\n171462\t196892\t我有跟我們棟老師談過希望他們有一個就是第一階段就是要將我們本身對於公共安全對於社會福利還有對於可能逃逸所造成的傷害的部分內部要先有一個有一個類似的一個指引完了以後才去做對外的溝通而不是自己都沒有想法拋出來直接去去廣結意見那樣就會開花很多議題就會開花所以這個部分\n198593\t212809\t我希望說他們能夠盡快的提出來然後再把這個時程再提供給委員好 我希望我們可以在一個月以內再召開下一次的會議好不好那這個相關的時程是不是可以在一個禮拜左右送給我們辦公室呢一個禮拜可以嗎 相關的時程\n213650\t242745\t好 謝謝那再來還是要回到比特犬的這個問題就是說比特犬剛剛其實黃姐委員也有問的那我想針對一個問題來討論就是說根據《動保法》32條其實當如果這個動物無故侵害他人之生命或身體製造成他人生命或身體傷害之動物就可以得進行沒入嘛32條是這樣規定可是在這個案例裡面其實是間隔了11天那我不曉得部長您對於這樣子的一個處置您的看法是什麼\n243427\t268717\t我個人認為就是當然事主跟狗不管他是不是攻擊犬他有他的一個依賴感就是所以我覺得我個人可以接受的是如果出犯你可以類似留校查看第二次的話一定要強制沒入因為第二次表示你有可能再犯了但是因為現在法規寫一個德制那個德制就完全操縱在\n269830\t287131\t一個行政的裁量那行政裁量萬一有人關說的時候那就可能就不處理了但是我覺得要有更明確的中央的指引我覺得這個部分我們農業部會來做我想再請教一個問題就是說每一個縣市政府的這個裁量標準你覺得現在是一致的嗎\n287931\t316683\t我想可能因為其實我們也有看到一些案例嘛它有的不是一次兩次有到三次四次它都還沒有沒落嘛那剛剛當然有收容的問題可是我覺得這個財量標準應該有必要找地方縣市政府一起來討論一個一致性因為應該不會有台北市的命比較貴重然後哪個地方命比較賤吧應該沒有吧對不對所以我們應該要用一視同仁的標準來去確認這件事情所以是不是可以召開相關的會議來把我們各縣市的財量標準拉起呢\n317183\t334292\t我覺得這個我們會立即去做去召開各縣市政府針對這個勾結性的權得冒入這件事情的一個指標跟標準然後如果大家有共識的話我們農業部就會發函到各縣市有一個相關的一個參考的指引這樣子\n335197\t362791\t我想我覺得可能也要來瞭解一下地方縣市他們現在在組織的想法是什麼我覺得可能先大家一起來討論之後我們來訂出一個財洋標準我覺得那才是實務上可行的不過我還是要再更正一點提醒一點就是說不是只有攻擊性的不是只有比特犬因為現在咬傷的狗咬傷人的狗並不是只有比特犬像昨天也是有類似的新聞所以我們應該是針對於狗狗的某種行為的狀況之下我們的一個財洋標準要拉起謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝 我們有請民運部部長好 有請部長\n我想因為去年年底我們公布了一個955的一個禁養關於異種的一個禁養的一個名單所以引發了非常非常多的抗議然後非常多的輿論的批評那所以在1月15號的時候當時我有協調了農業部來跟四組團體一起來做了一個討論 釐清這些爭議但我想在整個過程之中其實都是我們沒有跟民眾\n相關利益團體做一些清楚的溝通所以我覺得是前期上面我們做得不夠好那這一點部長您認同嗎我想我非常認同就是說當我們一個政策下去特別有不同的利害關係的時候我們更應該把一些\n前世的相關的這些政策要做一個充分的溝通而不是讓外界語言突然蹦出來一個這個議題讓他們措手不及所以針對這個部分我想我們內部的這些標準作業程序我們也再做一個調整\n好謝謝因為上個禮拜其實有討論一個叫做分級分類的一個管理那當時其實當動保跟東農院部的動保處動保司發通知給我們民間團體的時候他們其實在上禮拜一的時候希望可以增加民間的專家學者而是到禮拜一的時候給一直告訴我們說禮拜四的會議可是禮拜一給就說作業不及我想我們這邊其實也是非常希望的可以讓民間更多的參與讓大家可以來收容意見那下次這樣子的情形是不是可以不要再有了\n我覺得下次絕對不會發生現在的那些那些邀請也好或是什麼也好其實電子郵件一下子就可以確認了嘛對啊因為我其實不能理解那有一些是除了閉門會議閉門會議的委員不能臨時外加以外那其他的只要是溝通的邀請專家的部分我已經跟他們講就是說希望說\n就算你開會的當天有人願意來提出他的想法我們都應該很開心的接受好 謝謝因為我一直想說禮拜一通知到底為什麼禮拜四還是沒有這樣的時間會作業不緊那不過也非常謝謝部長的積極來處理那因為接下來我們還要來討論就是有關於這些風險評估的一個標準\n但是因為這裡面會有一些非常主觀的認定就是動物福利跟公共安全所以我想要了解針對這個部分我們有沒有一個相關的時程如何來跟民間團體跟利益團體來做一些溝通呢我們目前有相關的時程嗎我想我們並沒有很明確的什麼時候要公告這個禁止動物禁止飼養的我們講的是風險管理的一些標準\n我有跟我們棟老師談過希望他們有一個就是第一階段就是要將我們本身對於公共安全對於社會福利還有對於可能逃逸所造成的傷害的部分內部要先有一個有一個類似的一個指引完了以後才去做對外的溝通而不是自己都沒有想法拋出來直接去去廣結意見那樣就會開花很多議題就會開花所以這個部分\n我希望說他們能夠盡快的提出來然後再把這個時程再提供給委員好 我希望我們可以在一個月以內再召開下一次的會議好不好那這個相關的時程是不是可以在一個禮拜左右送給我們辦公室呢一個禮拜可以嗎 相關的時程\n好 謝謝那再來還是要回到比特犬的這個問題就是說比特犬剛剛其實黃姐委員也有問的那我想針對一個問題來討論就是說根據《動保法》32條其實當如果這個動物無故侵害他人之生命或身體製造成他人生命或身體傷害之動物就可以得進行沒入嘛32條是這樣規定可是在這個案例裡面其實是間隔了11天那我不曉得部長您對於這樣子的一個處置您的看法是什麼\n我個人認為就是當然事主跟狗不管他是不是攻擊犬他有他的一個依賴感就是所以我覺得我個人可以接受的是如果出犯你可以類似留校查看第二次的話一定要強制沒入因為第二次表示你有可能再犯了但是因為現在法規寫一個德制那個德制就完全操縱在\n一個行政的裁量那行政裁量萬一有人關說的時候那就可能就不處理了但是我覺得要有更明確的中央的指引我覺得這個部分我們農業部會來做我想再請教一個問題就是說每一個縣市政府的這個裁量標準你覺得現在是一致的嗎\n我想可能因為其實我們也有看到一些案例嘛它有的不是一次兩次有到三次四次它都還沒有沒落嘛那剛剛當然有收容的問題可是我覺得這個財量標準應該有必要找地方縣市政府一起來討論一個一致性因為應該不會有台北市的命比較貴重然後哪個地方命比較賤吧應該沒有吧對不對所以我們應該要用一視同仁的標準來去確認這件事情所以是不是可以召開相關的會議來把我們各縣市的財量標準拉起呢\n我覺得這個我們會立即去做去召開各縣市政府針對這個勾結性的權得冒入這件事情的一個指標跟標準然後如果大家有共識的話我們農業部就會發函到各縣市有一個相關的一個參考的指引這樣子\n我想我覺得可能也要來瞭解一下地方縣市他們現在在組織的想法是什麼我覺得可能先大家一起來討論之後我們來訂出一個財洋標準我覺得那才是實務上可行的不過我還是要再更正一點提醒一點就是說不是只有攻擊性的不是只有比特犬因為現在咬傷的狗咬傷人的狗並不是只有比特犬像昨天也是有類似的新聞所以我們應該是針對於狗狗的某種行為的狀況之下我們的一個財洋標準要拉起謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.342 --> 00:14.173\n謝謝我們有請民運部部長好有請部長\n\n00:22.371 --> 00:43.620\n我想因為去年年底我們公布了一個955的一個禁養關於異種的一個禁養的一個名單所以引發了非常非常多的抗議然後非常多的輿論的批評那所以在1月15號的時候當時我有協調了農業部來跟四組團體一起來做了一個討論釐清這些爭議但我想在整個過程之中其實都是我們沒有跟民眾\n\n00:44.820 --> 01:00.931\n相關利益團體做一些清楚的溝通所以我覺得是前期上面我們做得不夠好那這一點部長您認同嗎我想我非常認同就是說當我們一個政策下去特別有不同的利害關係的時候我們更應該把一些\n\n01:01.812 --> 01:15.134\n前世的相關的這些政策要做一個充分的溝通而不是讓外界語言突然蹦出來一個這個議題讓他們措手不及所以針對這個部分我想我們內部的這些標準作業程序我們也再做一個調整\n\n01:15.540 --> 01:43.726\n好謝謝因為上個禮拜其實有討論一個叫做分級分類的一個管理那當時其實當動保跟東農院部的動保處動保司發通知給我們民間團體的時候他們其實在上禮拜一的時候希望可以增加民間的專家學者而是到禮拜一的時候給一直告訴我們說禮拜四的會議可是禮拜一給就說作業不及我想我們這邊其實也是非常希望的可以讓民間更多的參與讓大家可以來收容意見那下次這樣子的情形是不是可以不要再有了\n\n01:44.006 --> 02:07.825\n我覺得下次絕對不會發生現在的那些那些邀請也好或是什麼也好其實電子郵件一下子就可以確認了嘛對啊因為我其實不能理解那有一些是除了閉門會議閉門會議的委員不能臨時外加以外那其他的只要是溝通的邀請專家的部分我已經跟他們講就是說希望說\n\n02:09.487 --> 02:21.336\n就算你開會的當天有人願意來提出他的想法我們都應該很開心的接受好謝謝因為我一直想說禮拜一通知到底為什麼禮拜四還是沒有這樣的時間會作業不緊那不過也非常謝謝部長的積極來處理那因為接下來我們還要來討論就是有關於這些風險評估的一個標準\n\n02:29.343 --> 02:49.661\n但是因為這裡面會有一些非常主觀的認定就是動物福利跟公共安全所以我想要了解針對這個部分我們有沒有一個相關的時程如何來跟民間團體跟利益團體來做一些溝通呢我們目前有相關的時程嗎我想我們並沒有很明確的什麼時候要公告這個禁止動物禁止飼養的我們講的是風險管理的一些標準\n\n02:51.462 --> 03:16.892\n我有跟我們棟老師談過希望他們有一個就是第一階段就是要將我們本身對於公共安全對於社會福利還有對於可能逃逸所造成的傷害的部分內部要先有一個有一個類似的一個指引完了以後才去做對外的溝通而不是自己都沒有想法拋出來直接去去廣結意見那樣就會開花很多議題就會開花所以這個部分\n\n03:18.593 --> 03:32.809\n我希望說他們能夠盡快的提出來然後再把這個時程再提供給委員好我希望我們可以在一個月以內再召開下一次的會議好不好那這個相關的時程是不是可以在一個禮拜左右送給我們辦公室呢一個禮拜可以嗎相關的時程\n\n03:33.650 --> 04:02.745\n好謝謝那再來還是要回到比特犬的這個問題就是說比特犬剛剛其實黃姐委員也有問的那我想針對一個問題來討論就是說根據《動保法》32條其實當如果這個動物無故侵害他人之生命或身體製造成他人生命或身體傷害之動物就可以得進行沒入嘛32條是這樣規定可是在這個案例裡面其實是間隔了11天那我不曉得部長您對於這樣子的一個處置您的看法是什麼\n\n04:03.427 --> 04:28.717\n我個人認為就是當然事主跟狗不管他是不是攻擊犬他有他的一個依賴感就是所以我覺得我個人可以接受的是如果出犯你可以類似留校查看第二次的話一定要強制沒入因為第二次表示你有可能再犯了但是因為現在法規寫一個德制那個德制就完全操縱在\n\n04:29.830 --> 04:47.131\n一個行政的裁量那行政裁量萬一有人關說的時候那就可能就不處理了但是我覺得要有更明確的中央的指引我覺得這個部分我們農業部會來做我想再請教一個問題就是說每一個縣市政府的這個裁量標準你覺得現在是一致的嗎\n\n04:47.931 --> 05:16.683\n我想可能因為其實我們也有看到一些案例嘛它有的不是一次兩次有到三次四次它都還沒有沒落嘛那剛剛當然有收容的問題可是我覺得這個財量標準應該有必要找地方縣市政府一起來討論一個一致性因為應該不會有台北市的命比較貴重然後哪個地方命比較賤吧應該沒有吧對不對所以我們應該要用一視同仁的標準來去確認這件事情所以是不是可以召開相關的會議來把我們各縣市的財量標準拉起呢\n\n05:17.183 --> 05:34.292\n我覺得這個我們會立即去做去召開各縣市政府針對這個勾結性的權得冒入這件事情的一個指標跟標準然後如果大家有共識的話我們農業部就會發函到各縣市有一個相關的一個參考的指引這樣子\n\n05:35.197 --> 06:02.791\n我想我覺得可能也要來瞭解一下地方縣市他們現在在組織的想法是什麼我覺得可能先大家一起來討論之後我們來訂出一個財洋標準我覺得那才是實務上可行的不過我還是要再更正一點提醒一點就是說不是只有攻擊性的不是只有比特犬因為現在咬傷的狗咬傷人的狗並不是只有比特犬像昨天也是有類似的新聞所以我們應該是針對於狗狗的某種行為的狀況之下我們的一個財洋標準要拉起謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.342,"end":14.173,"text":"謝謝 我們有請民運部部長好 有請部長"},{"start":22.371,"end":43.62,"text":"我想因為去年年底我們公布了一個955的一個禁養關於異種的一個禁養的一個名單所以引發了非常非常多的抗議然後非常多的輿論的批評那所以在1月15號的時候當時我有協調了農業部來跟四組團體一起來做了一個討論 釐清這些爭議但我想在整個過程之中其實都是我們沒有跟民眾"},{"start":44.82,"end":60.931,"text":"相關利益團體做一些清楚的溝通所以我覺得是前期上面我們做得不夠好那這一點部長您認同嗎我想我非常認同就是說當我們一個政策下去特別有不同的利害關係的時候我們更應該把一些"},{"start":61.812,"end":75.134,"text":"前世的相關的這些政策要做一個充分的溝通而不是讓外界語言突然蹦出來一個這個議題讓他們措手不及所以針對這個部分我想我們內部的這些標準作業程序我們也再做一個調整"},{"start":75.54,"end":103.726,"text":"好謝謝因為上個禮拜其實有討論一個叫做分級分類的一個管理那當時其實當動保跟東農院部的動保處動保司發通知給我們民間團體的時候他們其實在上禮拜一的時候希望可以增加民間的專家學者而是到禮拜一的時候給一直告訴我們說禮拜四的會議可是禮拜一給就說作業不及我想我們這邊其實也是非常希望的可以讓民間更多的參與讓大家可以來收容意見那下次這樣子的情形是不是可以不要再有了"},{"start":104.006,"end":127.825,"text":"我覺得下次絕對不會發生現在的那些那些邀請也好或是什麼也好其實電子郵件一下子就可以確認了嘛對啊因為我其實不能理解那有一些是除了閉門會議閉門會議的委員不能臨時外加以外那其他的只要是溝通的邀請專家的部分我已經跟他們講就是說希望說"},{"start":129.487,"end":141.336,"text":"就算你開會的當天有人願意來提出他的想法我們都應該很開心的接受好 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謝謝那再來還是要回到比特犬的這個問題就是說比特犬剛剛其實黃姐委員也有問的那我想針對一個問題來討論就是說根據《動保法》32條其實當如果這個動物無故侵害他人之生命或身體製造成他人生命或身體傷害之動物就可以得進行沒入嘛32條是這樣規定可是在這個案例裡面其實是間隔了11天那我不曉得部長您對於這樣子的一個處置您的看法是什麼"},{"start":243.427,"end":268.717,"text":"我個人認為就是當然事主跟狗不管他是不是攻擊犬他有他的一個依賴感就是所以我覺得我個人可以接受的是如果出犯你可以類似留校查看第二次的話一定要強制沒入因為第二次表示你有可能再犯了但是因為現在法規寫一個德制那個德制就完全操縱在"},{"start":269.83,"end":287.131,"text":"一個行政的裁量那行政裁量萬一有人關說的時候那就可能就不處理了但是我覺得要有更明確的中央的指引我覺得這個部分我們農業部會來做我想再請教一個問題就是說每一個縣市政府的這個裁量標準你覺得現在是一致的嗎"},{"start":287.931,"end":316.683,"text":"我想可能因為其實我們也有看到一些案例嘛它有的不是一次兩次有到三次四次它都還沒有沒落嘛那剛剛當然有收容的問題可是我覺得這個財量標準應該有必要找地方縣市政府一起來討論一個一致性因為應該不會有台北市的命比較貴重然後哪個地方命比較賤吧應該沒有吧對不對所以我們應該要用一視同仁的標準來去確認這件事情所以是不是可以召開相關的會議來把我們各縣市的財量標準拉起呢"},{"start":317.183,"end":334.292,"text":"我覺得這個我們會立即去做去召開各縣市政府針對這個勾結性的權得冒入這件事情的一個指標跟標準然後如果大家有共識的話我們農業部就會發函到各縣市有一個相關的一個參考的指引這樣子"},{"start":335.197,"end":362.791,"text":"我想我覺得可能也要來瞭解一下地方縣市他們現在在組織的想法是什麼我覺得可能先大家一起來討論之後我們來訂出一個財洋標準我覺得那才是實務上可行的不過我還是要再更正一點提醒一點就是說不是只有攻擊性的不是只有比特犬因為現在咬傷的狗咬傷人的狗並不是只有比特犬像昨天也是有類似的新聞所以我們應該是針對於狗狗的某種行為的狀況之下我們的一個財洋標準要拉起謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1197,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（13時15分）謝謝，我們有請農業部部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：部長好。去年年底你們公布955種關於異寵的禁養名單，引發了非常非常多的抗議，以及非常多的輿論批評，所以在1月15號的時候，我協調了農業部跟飼主團體一起討論，釐清這些爭議，但我想在整個過程之中，其實都是我們沒有跟民眾、相關利益團體做一些清楚的溝通，所以我覺得是前期上我們做得不夠好，這一點部長您認同嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我非常認同，當我們一個政策下去而且特別有不同的利害關係的時候，我們詮釋這些相關政策更應該做充分的溝通，而不是讓外界以為突然蹦出來一個議題，讓他們措手不及。所以，針對這個部分，我們內部的這些標準作業程序也在調整。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝喔！上個禮拜其實有討論一個叫做分級、分類的管理，當時農業部的動保司發通知給民間團體，他們其實在上禮拜一的時候，希望可以增加民間的專家學者，這是禮拜四的會議，可是禮拜一給的時候，就一直告訴我們說作業不及。我們其實也是非常希望可以讓民間有更多的參與，讓大家可以來收攏意見，下次這樣子的情形是不是可以不要再有了？"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得下次絕對不會發生，現在的那些邀請也好或是什麼也好，其實電子郵件一下子就可以確認了嘛！不需要走那個流程……"],["張委員雅琳：對啊！我就是一直不能理解……"],["陳部長駿季：不要走那個流程，有一些是除了閉門會議，閉門會議的委員不能臨時外加以外，其他的只要是溝通的、邀請專家的部分，我已經跟他們講，就算你開會的當天有人願意來提出他的想法，我們都應該很開心地接受。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝喔！因為我一直想說禮拜一通知到底為什麼禮拜四還是……這樣子的時間會作業不及，不過也非常謝謝部長積極處理。","因為接下來我們還要來討論就是有關於這些風險評估的標準，但是因為這裡面會有一些非常主觀的認定，就是動物福利跟公共安全，所以我想要了解針對這個部分，我們有沒有一個相關的時程，如何來跟民間團體跟利益團體來做一些溝通呢？我們目前有相關的時程嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們並沒有很明確的什麼時候要公告禁止飼養的……"],["張委員雅琳：我們講的是風險管理的一些標準。"],["陳部長駿季：但是風險的管理，我有跟我們動保司談過，希望他們第一階段就是要將我們本身對於公共安全、對於社會福利，還有對於可能逃逸所造成的生態的部分，內部要先有一個類似的指引，完了以後才去做對外的溝通，而不是自己都沒有想法拋出來，直接去廣結意見，那樣就會開花，很多議題就會開花，所以這個部分我希望他們能夠儘快地提出來，然後再把這個時程提供給委員。"],["張委員雅琳：好，我希望我們可以在一個月以內召開下一次的會議，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：可以。"],["張委員雅琳：那相關的時程是不是可以在一個禮拜左右送給我們辦公室呢？一個禮拜可以嗎？相關的時程。"],["陳部長駿季：可以。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。再來還是要回到比特犬的問題，比特犬剛剛其實黃捷委員也有問了，我想要針對一個問題來討論，根據動保法第三十二條，無故侵害他人之生命或身體，致造成他人生命或身體傷害之動物，就「得」逕行沒入嘛！第三十二條是這樣規定，可是在這個案例裡面，其實是間隔了11天，我不曉得部長對於這樣子的處置，您的看法是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：我個人認為當然飼主跟狗，不管牠是不是攻擊犬，他有依賴感，所以我個人可以接受的是，如果是初犯，可以類似留校查看；第二次的話，一定要強制沒入，因為犯到第二次就表示有可能再犯，但是現在法規寫了一個「得」字，那個「得」字就完全操縱在行政裁量，萬一有人關說的時候，可能就不處理了。我覺得中央要有更明確的指引，這個部分我們農業部會來做。"],["張委員雅琳：再請教一個問題，你覺得每一個縣市政府的裁量標準現在是一致的嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我相信是不一樣的。"],["張委員雅琳：因為我們也有看到一些案例，牠咬人也不是一次、兩次，咬到三次、四次都還沒有沒入。當然，那可能有收容的問題，可是我覺得這個裁量標準應該有必要找地方縣市政府一起討論出一致性，因為應該不會有臺北市的命比較貴重，然後哪個地方的命比較賤吧？應該沒有吧，對不對？我們應該要用一視同仁的標準去確認這件事，所以是不是可以召開相關的會議，把各縣市的裁量標準拉齊呢？"],["陳部長駿季：對於這個我們會立即去做，召集各縣市政府討論攻擊性的犬「得沒入」這件事情的指標跟標準，如果大家有共識的話，我們農業部就會發函給各縣市一個相關的參考指引。"],["張委員雅琳：我想可能也要瞭解地方縣市現在在處置的想法是什麼……"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們會先做各縣市的溝通。"],["張委員雅琳：我覺得可能大家先一起討論之後，再訂出一個裁量標準，那才是實務上可行的。不過，我還是要再提醒一點，有攻擊性的不是只有比特犬……"],["陳部長駿季：其他也會。"],["張委員雅琳：現在會咬傷人的狗並不是只有比特犬，像昨天也有類似的新聞。"],["陳部長駿季：我知道。"],["張委員雅琳：所以應該是針對狗狗的某種行為狀況之下，我們的裁量標準要拉齊。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["張委員雅琳：謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張雅琳委員。","下一位請陳冠廷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":368,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-5","speakers":["蔡易餘","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","陳超明","翁曉玲","邱志偉","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","郭國文","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","鄭正鈐","李坤城","黃捷","徐欣瑩","張雅琳","陳冠廷","王美惠","林德福"],"page_start":301,"meetingDate":["2025-03-26"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00005"}}}