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911.465, \"end\": 911.625, \"score\": 0.652}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 911.625, \"end\": 911.785, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 911.785, \"end\": 912.225, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 912.225, \"end\": 912.325, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 912.325, \"end\": 912.345, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,597 --> 00:00:23,842\n有請李部長還有文化內容策進院的院長吳俊偉先生好有請部長跟院長\n\n2\n00:00:30,629 --> 00:00:32,309\n今天您的報告當中有三個重點文化政策、文化產業、文化建設我今天想針對文化產業的部分來做一個質詢\n\n3\n00:00:48,454 --> 00:00:54,657\n文化產業之所以重要就在於說它本身就可以發揮到軟實力可以像經濟一樣的發揮到後面的影響包括觀光、飲食、衣著等等的後續的影響發揮到很大的效果我們看到文化創意產業當中根據文化創意產業的發展法有16項\n\n4\n00:01:12,547 --> 00:01:17,688\n那這16項當中呢文化部又把你們關鍵的內容上面又把五大產業就是影視產業、流行音樂、出版產業還有文創與文化科技、動畫與漫畫剛才你都有講到漫畫這一部分那我們就想要看它既然是個產業的話是不是要重視到它的產值那我們就往下看\n\n5\n00:01:35,333 --> 00:01:39,558\n而且它產值因為很重要我今天把它的文化產業當中特別我想要把它的重要是它的內容是什麼它的內容當中最重要是創意、生產、傳播、展示等等還有下面這些效果但是最重要是核心在於文化的內容是什麼\n\n6\n00:01:52,333 --> 00:02:12,797\n然後再往下看的時候我看一下這個產值大家看到這個表當中可以看到我國的情況在從2017年到2020年到2023年的時候看起來我們在文化產值在文創那部分的產值占到我國的4點多%等等的那去年的時候我們收入期到2023年到4.78%看起來在GDP占起來是不錯的那我們可是再看看因為你後面講到一個你的目標是什麼\n\n7\n00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:28,930\n我們往下看看到目標的情況之下您在去年就任三個月的時候提出來的是說要把\n\n8\n00:02:30,492 --> 00:02:46,862\n要借鏡韓流當作是我們的一個文化的國際就是把韓流當作我們的目標然後變成說文化把它視為國家的戰略把台流要推向到國際來那這個地方我想您對韓流一定是有相當的有一些研究才會說出這樣的話那我就在想說請問部長你認為韓國文化產業有哪些優勢呢\n\n9\n00:02:54,329 --> 00:03:21,138\n我想那個一個國家會推動文化產業跟國家的制度有關係韓國我非常清楚他是在2000年之後那個之前是金大中選上推翻了一個獨裁政權之後他領悟到說這個文化的產值會超過一些其他產業的可能性從那開始就推動這個韓流那推動的方式他就是鼓動自己政府用很多的經費之外\n\n10\n00:03:21,738 --> 00:03:44,468\n鼓動整個民間投資所以滾動民間投資讓大家知道這個文化也是一筆好生意可以讓國家帶來非常多的這個外匯那個一旦覺醒之後所有的民間的企業就投入創造了今天已經遠遠超過各國的這個產值的一個寒冷好謝謝部長那下一頁我們來看看\n\n11\n00:03:46,010 --> 00:03:48,954\n這個部分當然我們先要剪斷一下我們台灣目前的文化產業的部分你可以看到在這個表當中藍色的部分是我們的外銷的產值那這個在我們整個的文化的產值當中\n\n12\n00:04:01,292 --> 00:04:21,688\n只佔到十分之一左右外銷只佔十分之一甚至不到這個情況那我們再往下看所以距離說因為它發生寒流或是說要以後台流的影響力的話絕對還有很大很大的要去發展推展的空間那我們現在再看看剛才部長你有講到就是說政府的補助跟\n\n13\n00:04:23,328 --> 00:04:27,472\n跟企業這邊有些合作的部分讓他去推展這邊看到在2000年開始的時候含有這個情況那我們現在看看台灣的情況是怎麼樣呢台灣在你們文化的產業當中目前16項裡面GDP要佔到4.78\n\n14\n00:04:38,944 --> 00:04:42,848\n可是我去看到在南韓的部分它一項的就所謂的CulturalContentIndustry這部分就至少在我們16項裡面大概只要一項大多或是一兩項這一部分加進來的時候它就超過7%的這個產值\n\n15\n00:04:54,580 --> 00:05:17,888\n然後已經超過我們的兩兆台幣的話是這樣的狀況所以的確我們都還要很大的進步空間那我再定位的就是說再去追究它為什麼會造成這樣的原因的情況之下就在於說你說的沒有錯政策的部分資金的募集然後還有就是在政策上面文化自信多體緣多長而且表情的細膩等等還有國際的影響力那我們就繼續再往下看這部分我想要也許就填填看這個情況\n\n16\n00:05:19,429 --> 00:05:41,236\n我之前跟部長你交換過意見的時候就提到是說韓劇啊他2000年開始對不對從一個醫療關懷的時候就看得到是什麼從大產經人的關懷古代的時候然後到螞蟻對動物的關懷到太陽的後裔到聯合國的peacekeeping的往外去做這樣然後到現在醫生生活這部分那這邊都是同樣的就在創意在這邊那我們現在往下看我想跟大家講的是說想要請問部長的是說如果你要支持台流的情況那你的市場定位是怎麼樣\n\n17\n00:05:50,660 --> 00:06:15,934\n我想資產地位一定是全世界都可以接受台流我們才可能生存下來而且是你剛才講GDP的問題但是我們先以亞洲國家作為第一個考量所以我們的國際合作裡面有蠻多是亞洲國家包括日本、越南等等然後第二個合作對象就是歐洲、法國、德國、英國等等\n\n18\n00:06:16,394 --> 00:06:21,776\n還有美國資金資本的這個運作的來源的部分那有設計國發基金對不對這個這部分國發基金的這個內容那我想請問一下那個國策院就是院長因為那邊成立的文化內容策進院那這邊請問這個國發基金這一部分有100億也是蠻好的那我們從你們這個報告當中其實也看到有一些的包括評估啦然後包括他這次還有退場嘛\n\n19\n00:06:44,065 --> 00:06:54,451\n那我想要問的是說你們現在目前的評估是這個有沒有在說評估到什麼情況他可以繼續留下來然後什麼時候是不能留下來的然後為什麼為此的十年才讓他退場\n\n20\n00:06:56,207 --> 00:07:22,334\n跟委員報告因為我們國發基金的投資的這個退場的規定是比照國發基金母基金的規定那它就是頭七年之後會利用三年的時間來做退場那這個退場包含說它被下一階段投資人投資或者是往上市櫃來發展大概有多元的這個退場的機制那當然我們都很希望說從這個因為國發基金比較像是國家策略性的投資它希望在這個公司初期成長階段就能夠盡早\n\n21\n00:07:23,454 --> 00:07:50,194\n提供資金進場的這樣支持機制那也就是委員所提到韓國其實也有相關的這種類似國發基金的國家投資的資金也來支持這個產業的發展那我想政府資金是蠻重要的跟委員報告那這一部分希望說在這個內容評鑑上面的時候事實上應該是核心在說什麼叫做台灣等於說事實上下面要問的問題要往下繼續看其他部分我們繼續往下看我們做出來的這樣的結果是看到其實是可能應該有階段性我們是期許自己剛剛\n\n22\n00:07:51,015 --> 00:07:57,099\n市場定位在東南亞、亞洲、歐洲等等可以看到但是我們看到韓國這部分定位在好萊塢商業當然是他從2000年一直發展到現在已經20多年的效果等等另外我想說可能要引進所謂的私人企業如果說像國策院提到的私人基金目前還是以國家的資金去講\n\n23\n00:08:16,790 --> 00:08:28,659\n要去做這個效益的評估事實上要增加的我想說這部分能不能提供三年之內的對於國策院所接受的這個案子或是說國發基金所這個案子當中可以提供這個相關的申請然後最後結果然後報告評估的報告給我們可以嗎\n\n24\n00:08:34,750 --> 00:08:58,985\n應該是可以因為我們這個文車業已經做了五年所以整個機制蠻清楚的所以這個報告應該是非常簡單的好那幫他來報告一些行銷策略當中像Netflix這些部分國際串流的部分那我們繼續往下看好那台流這部分剛才說何時會結束那我可以問一下這個地方那台流在發展的時候你覺得還欠缺哪些因素讓它可以再發展起來我覺得台流真的開始慢慢\n\n25\n00:09:04,448 --> 00:09:23,703\n譬如說你講今年你打開那個OTD看台劇幾乎是大爆發了而且它的那個品質跟內容是跟韓劇跟日劇是或者是中國大陸的劇是完全不同的台灣經過很長一段時間的文化融合以後其實看到了台流\n\n26\n00:09:24,423 --> 00:09:39,166\n是在今年或者去年他非常的清楚不太一樣文化部要做的是反而是要提供足夠的資金跟OTT平台讓他可以有地方可以演出所以大概是這樣\n\n27\n00:09:40,376 --> 00:09:55,630\n所以這樣的情況之下也許預計大概至少大概可能再花個15年到20年是不是這樣的意思我很難講說15年20年我們每一個產業我都有一個大概的想像他大概譬如說漫畫漫畫我們距離日本\n\n28\n00:09:56,851 --> 00:10:21,329\n韓國非常遙遠台灣人買台灣的漫畫大概只占日本漫畫的3%就跟剛才講的GDP差不多那我們努力三年內可以辦一個國際漫畫展但是在什麼時候可以超過韓國日本這個就當然努力啊所以這個時間點我覺得當然要加快但是加快的條件就是要給我們足夠的資源像100億的這個\n\n29\n00:10:22,910 --> 00:10:35,996\n至今就是我非常感謝這個國發會立刻投入我們的第二個100億因為我們這些選區跟韓國投資來比還是非常少的所以我希望政府能夠大力的給我們更多的預算\n\n30\n00:10:41,263 --> 00:10:52,854\n這個部分可能還是有需要再做具體的時間性可能像剛才說的只占到十分之一左右是不是可以大概說到也許在五年到十年之間的情況之下大概至少半到\n\n31\n00:10:54,276 --> 00:11:19,159\n20%左右的這個產值不然的話你要說到要距離韓流的話實際上還很久這個情況那我剛才已經抽到這一些部分那時間關係我只是再提到一個部分就是大概30秒就結束就是說你這個target是不是在上面這邊往下到在所謂的因為外交部有提到要提到說部部都能夠推轉外交那您對於文化在外交上面有什麼樣的一個期許呢\n\n32\n00:11:20,211 --> 00:11:47,110\n我覺得現在就台灣目前的現狀來講文化外交變得非常非常重要外交部長也今年用了我們文化部的一個國外交的那個團展去當奧地利的那個大使我跟他最近也談了很多今年很多的合作計畫我希望台灣的文化部可以扮演一個把台灣文化推向國際之後也幫助了台灣的外交\n\n33\n00:11:48,070 --> 00:12:00,249\n進行文化外交這點說起來其實非常重要所以我還是那句話希望多給我們一點預算尤其是外交方面的需要很多的錢部長我覺得您從可能\n\n34\n00:12:01,727 --> 00:12:27,327\n給錢事實上合理的都是必要性的但是問題是台灣文化content那個內容是什麼這部分如果像你過去有曾經提到的是都是一篇一篇的把它批出來就是只要發包出去或是說競標之後拿進來這樣的情況之下可是本身它是不是承襲的過去的從原住民的到華人的然後在日本的在西方的文明這部分你要可能要確認這個文化內涵是什麼\n\n35\n00:12:29,048 --> 00:12:40,040\n如果你內涵不夠要做我剛剛說的content的不重要沒有把它核心撞起來的話其實是不夠的沒有辦法去吸引人的我想你要特別要注意到你覺得這樣的我的認為或是簡單問一下台灣文化的內涵是什麼\n\n36\n00:12:44,155 --> 00:13:04,646\n我曾經去請教過委員委員的見解我非常同意就是文化本身是一個長期因為地理環境跟政治制度所留下來產生的新東西譬如說我舉個例子大家一直在講中華文化中華文化如果留在台灣一個民主社會的制度跟留在中國\n\n37\n00:13:05,626 --> 00:13:33,306\n大陸那個獨裁政治所發展出來的文化就是不一樣那我覺得這是一個台灣非常好的機會我很有信心台灣經過這麼漫長的一個歷史的來來去去的文化台灣已經開始很有自己的能量創造出自己的文化你可以我剛才講台劇漫畫文學你可以看到非常清楚它就是可以跟韓國中國日本區隔這就是文化\n\n38\n00:13:33,826 --> 00:13:34,487\n中華文化是一個蠻抽象的名詞\n\n39\n00:13:50,029 --> 00:14:16,807\n它歷經了幾千年的那種不同種族所產生的東西它來到台灣之後在台灣一個民主制度下它融合了非常多原住民的就像您剛才講的原住民的西方的日本的那個不是我想說中華文化如果留下來我就很想聽到這一部OK那我想跟你聽嘛我覺得我們一直把中華文化跟台灣文化是形成一個對立的我覺得台灣文化跟中華文化是一個對話的\n\n40\n00:14:18,468 --> 00:14:35,130\n那中華文化是在台灣文化裡面一個部分我覺得我們會保留它比較好的可是這個中華文化在中國大陸是變成一個統戰工具它是一個工具它不是文化它也不是中國的營養這一點我一直要重複地要講\n\n41\n00:14:35,951 --> 00:14:57,557\n所以我覺得文燈我最後一句就在說您說了台灣保留了中華文化非常好的部分是確定的嘛對不對在一個民主自由的在民主制度下任何文化都會朝下一個比較善良的比較正面的東西任何一個文化在一個獨裁政權它會變扭曲成一個工具而且缺少真誠的感覺\n\n42\n00:14:58,837 --> 00:15:12,345\n好非常好謝謝我們台灣真的是中華文化裡面可以發展的一個重要的基地好謝謝那當然台灣文化不只是包括中華文化還包括所有的整個歷史的包括日本的美國的原住民的好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14597\t23842\t有請李部長還有文化內容策進院的院長吳俊偉先生好 有請部長跟院長\n30629\t32309\t今天您的報告當中有三個重點文化政策、文化產業、文化建設我今天想針對文化產業的部分來做一個質詢\n48454\t54657\t文化產業之所以重要就在於說它本身就可以發揮到軟實力可以像經濟一樣的發揮到後面的影響包括觀光、飲食、衣著等等的後續的影響發揮到很大的效果我們看到文化創意產業當中根據文化創意產業的發展法有16項\n72547\t77688\t那這16項當中呢 文化部又把你們關鍵的內容上面 又把五大產業就是影視產業、流行音樂、出版產業還有文創與文化科技、動畫與漫畫 剛才你都有講到漫畫這一部分那我們就想要看它既然是個產業的話 是不是要重視到它的產值那我們就往下看\n95333\t99558\t而且它產值因為很重要我今天把它的文化產業當中特別我想要把它的重要是它的內容是什麼它的內容當中最重要是創意、生產、傳播、展示等等還有下面這些效果但是最重要是核心在於文化的內容是什麼\n112333\t132797\t然後再往下看的時候我看一下這個產值大家看到這個表當中可以看到我國的情況在從2017年到2020年到2023年的時候看起來我們在文化產值在文創那部分的產值占到我國的4點多%等等的那去年的時候我們收入期到2023年到4.78%看起來在GDP占起來是不錯的那我們可是再看看因為你後面講到一個你的目標是什麼\n141919\t148930\t我們往下看看到目標的情況之下您在去年就任三個月的時候提出來的是說要把\n150492\t166862\t要借鏡韓流當作是我們的一個文化的國際就是把韓流當作我們的目標然後變成說文化把它視為國家的戰略把台流要推向到國際來那這個地方我想您對韓流一定是有相當的有一些研究才會說出這樣的話那我就在想說請問部長你認為韓國文化產業有哪些優勢呢\n174329\t201138\t我想那個一個國家會推動文化產業跟國家的制度有關係韓國我非常清楚他是在2000年之後那個之前是金大中選上推翻了一個獨裁政權之後他領悟到說這個文化的產值會超過一些其他產業的可能性從那開始就推動這個韓流那推動的方式他就是鼓動自己政府用很多的經費之外\n201738\t224468\t鼓動整個民間投資所以滾動民間投資讓大家知道這個文化也是一筆好生意可以讓國家帶來非常多的這個外匯那個一旦覺醒之後所有的民間的企業就投入創造了今天已經遠遠超過各國的這個產值的一個寒冷好 謝謝部長那下一頁我們來看看\n226010\t228954\t這個部分當然我們先要剪斷一下我們台灣目前的文化產業的部分你可以看到在這個表當中藍色的部分是我們的外銷的產值那這個在我們整個的文化的產值當中\n241292\t261688\t只佔到十分之一左右外銷只佔十分之一甚至不到這個情況那我們再往下看所以距離說因為它發生寒流或是說要以後台流的影響力的話絕對還有很大很大的要去發展推展的空間那我們現在再看看剛才部長你有講到就是說政府的補助跟\n263328\t267472\t跟企業這邊有些合作的部分讓他去推展這邊看到在2000年開始的時候含有這個情況那我們現在看看台灣的情況是怎麼樣呢台灣在你們文化的產業當中目前16項裡面GDP要佔到4.78\n278944\t282848\t可是我去看到在南韓的部分它一項的就所謂的Cultural Content Industry這部分就至少在我們16項裡面大概只要一項大多或是一兩項這一部分加進來的時候它就超過7%的這個產值\n294580\t317888\t然後已經超過我們的兩兆台幣的話是這樣的狀況所以的確我們都還要很大的進步空間那我再定位的就是說再去追究它為什麼會造成這樣的原因的情況之下就在於說你說的沒有錯政策的部分資金的募集然後還有就是在政策上面文化自信多體緣多長而且表情的細膩等等還有國際的影響力那我們就繼續再往下看這部分我想要也許就填填看這個情況\n319429\t341236\t我之前跟部長你交換過意見的時候就提到是說韓劇啊他2000年開始對不對從一個醫療關懷的時候就看得到是什麼從大產經人的關懷古代的時候然後到螞蟻對動物的關懷到太陽的後裔到聯合國的peace keeping的往外去做這樣然後到現在醫生生活這部分那這邊都是同樣的就在創意在這邊那我們現在往下看我想跟大家講的是說想要請問部長的是說如果你要支持台流的情況那你的市場定位是怎麼樣\n350660\t375934\t我想資產地位一定是全世界都可以接受台流我們才可能生存下來而且是你剛才講GDP的問題但是我們先以亞洲國家作為第一個考量所以我們的國際合作裡面有蠻多是亞洲國家包括日本、越南等等然後第二個合作對象就是歐洲、法國、德國、英國等等\n376394\t381776\t還有美國資金資本的這個運作的來源的部分那有設計國發基金對不對這個這部分國發基金的這個內容那我想請問一下那個國策院就是院長因為那邊成立的文化內容策進院那這邊請問這個國發基金這一部分有100億也是蠻好的那我們從你們這個報告當中其實也看到有一些的包括評估啦然後包括他這次還有退場嘛\n404065\t414451\t那我想要問的是說你們現在目前的評估是這個有沒有在說評估到什麼情況他可以繼續留下來然後什麼時候是不能留下來的然後為什麼為此的十年才讓他退場\n416207\t442334\t跟委員報告因為我們國發基金的投資的這個退場的規定是比照國發基金母基金的規定那它就是頭七年之後會利用三年的時間來做退場那這個退場包含說它被下一階段投資人投資或者是往上市櫃來發展大概有多元的這個退場的機制那當然我們都很希望說從這個因為國發基金比較像是國家策略性的投資它希望在這個公司初期成長階段就能夠盡早\n443454\t470194\t提供資金進場的這樣支持機制那也就是委員所提到韓國其實也有相關的這種類似國發基金的國家投資的資金也來支持這個產業的發展那我想政府資金是蠻重要的跟委員報告那這一部分希望說在這個內容評鑑上面的時候事實上應該是核心在說什麼叫做台灣等於說事實上下面要問的問題要往下繼續看其他部分我們繼續往下看我們做出來的這樣的結果是看到其實是可能應該有階段性我們是期許自己剛剛\n471015\t477099\t市場定位在東南亞、亞洲、歐洲等等可以看到但是我們看到韓國這部分定位在好萊塢商業當然是他從2000年一直發展到現在已經20多年的效果等等另外我想說可能要引進所謂的私人企業如果說像國策院提到的私人基金目前還是以國家的資金去講\n496790\t508659\t要去做這個效益的評估事實上要增加的我想說這部分能不能提供三年之內的對於國策院所接受的這個案子或是說國發基金所這個案子當中可以提供這個相關的申請然後最後結果然後報告評估的報告給我們可以嗎\n514750\t538985\t應該是可以 因為我們這個文車業已經做了五年所以整個機制蠻清楚的所以這個報告應該是非常簡單的好 那幫他來報告一些行銷策略當中像Netflix這些部分 國際串流的部分那我們繼續往下看好 那台流這部分 剛才說何時會結束那我可以問一下這個地方那台流在發展的時候你覺得還欠缺哪些因素讓它可以再發展起來我覺得台流真的開始慢慢\n544448\t563703\t譬如說你講今年你打開那個OTD看台劇幾乎是大爆發了而且它的那個品質跟內容是跟韓劇跟日劇是或者是中國大陸的劇是完全不同的台灣經過很長一段時間的文化融合以後其實看到了台流\n564423\t579166\t是在今年或者去年他非常的清楚不太一樣文化部要做的是反而是要提供足夠的資金跟OTT平台讓他可以有地方可以演出所以大概是這樣\n580376\t595630\t所以這樣的情況之下也許預計大概至少大概可能再花個15年到20年是不是這樣的意思我很難講說15年20年我們每一個產業我都有一個大概的想像他大概譬如說漫畫漫畫我們距離日本\n596851\t621329\t韓國非常遙遠台灣人買台灣的漫畫大概只占日本漫畫的3%就跟剛才講的GDP差不多那我們努力三年內可以辦一個國際漫畫展但是在什麼時候可以超過韓國日本這個就當然努力啊所以這個時間點我覺得當然要加快但是加快的條件就是要給我們足夠的資源像100億的這個\n622910\t635996\t至今就是我非常感謝這個國發會立刻投入我們的第二個100億因為我們這些選區跟韓國投資來比還是非常少的所以我希望政府能夠大力的給我們更多的預算\n641263\t652854\t這個部分可能還是有需要再做具體的時間性可能像剛才說的只占到十分之一左右是不是可以大概說到也許在五年到十年之間的情況之下大概至少半到\n654276\t679159\t20%左右的這個產值不然的話你要說到要距離韓流的話實際上還很久這個情況那我剛才已經抽到這一些部分那時間關係我只是再提到一個部分就是大概30秒就結束就是說你這個target是不是在上面這邊往下到在所謂的因為外交部有提到要提到說部部都能夠推轉外交那您對於文化在外交上面有什麼樣的一個期許呢\n680211\t707110\t我覺得現在就台灣目前的現狀來講文化外交變得非常非常重要外交部長也今年用了我們文化部的一個國外交的那個團展去當奧地利的那個大使我跟他最近也談了很多今年很多的合作計畫我希望台灣的文化部可以扮演一個把台灣文化推向國際之後也幫助了台灣的外交\n708070\t720249\t進行文化外交這點說起來其實非常重要所以我還是那句話希望多給我們一點預算尤其是外交方面的需要很多的錢部長我覺得您從可能\n721727\t747327\t給錢事實上合理的都是必要性的但是問題是台灣文化content那個內容是什麼這部分如果像你過去有曾經提到的是都是一篇一篇的把它批出來就是只要發包出去或是說競標之後拿進來這樣的情況之下可是本身它是不是承襲的過去的從原住民的到華人的然後在日本的在西方的文明這部分你要可能要確認這個文化內涵是什麼\n749048\t760040\t如果你內涵不夠要做我剛剛說的content的不重要沒有把它核心撞起來的話其實是不夠的沒有辦法去吸引人的我想你要特別要注意到你覺得這樣的我的認為或是簡單問一下台灣文化的內涵是什麼\n764155\t784646\t我曾經去請教過委員委員的見解我非常同意就是文化本身是一個長期因為地理環境跟政治制度所留下來產生的新東西譬如說我舉個例子大家一直在講中華文化中華文化如果留在台灣一個民主社會的制度跟留在中國\n785626\t813306\t大陸那個獨裁政治所發展出來的文化就是不一樣那我覺得這是一個台灣非常好的機會我很有信心台灣經過這麼漫長的一個歷史的來來去去的文化台灣已經開始很有自己的能量創造出自己的文化你可以 我剛才講台劇 漫畫 文學你可以看到非常清楚它就是可以跟韓國 中國 日本區隔這就是文化\n813826\t814487\t中華文化是一個蠻抽象的名詞\n830029\t856807\t它歷經了幾千年的那種不同種族所產生的東西它來到台灣之後在台灣一個民主制度下它融合了非常多原住民的就像您剛才講的原住民的 西方的 日本的那個不是我想說中華文化如果留下來我就很想聽到這一部OK 那我想跟你聽嘛我覺得我們一直把中華文化跟台灣文化是形成一個對立的我覺得台灣文化跟中華文化是一個對話的\n858468\t875130\t那中華文化是在台灣文化裡面一個部分我覺得我們會保留它比較好的可是這個中華文化在中國大陸是變成一個統戰工具它是一個工具它不是文化它也不是中國的營養這一點我一直要重複地要講\n875951\t897557\t所以我覺得文燈我最後一句就在說您說了台灣保留了中華文化非常好的部分是確定的嘛對不對在一個民主自由的在民主制度下任何文化都會朝下一個比較善良的比較正面的東西任何一個文化在一個獨裁政權它會變扭曲成一個工具而且缺少真誠的感覺\n898837\t912345\t好 非常好 謝謝我們台灣真的是中華文化裡面可以發展的一個重要的基地好 謝謝 那當然台灣文化不只是包括中華文化還包括所有的整個歷史的包括日本的 美國的 原住民的好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"有請李部長還有文化內容策進院的院長吳俊偉先生好 有請部長跟院長\n今天您的報告當中有三個重點文化政策、文化產業、文化建設我今天想針對文化產業的部分來做一個質詢\n文化產業之所以重要就在於說它本身就可以發揮到軟實力可以像經濟一樣的發揮到後面的影響包括觀光、飲食、衣著等等的後續的影響發揮到很大的效果我們看到文化創意產業當中根據文化創意產業的發展法有16項\n那這16項當中呢 文化部又把你們關鍵的內容上面 又把五大產業就是影視產業、流行音樂、出版產業還有文創與文化科技、動畫與漫畫 剛才你都有講到漫畫這一部分那我們就想要看它既然是個產業的話 是不是要重視到它的產值那我們就往下看\n而且它產值因為很重要我今天把它的文化產業當中特別我想要把它的重要是它的內容是什麼它的內容當中最重要是創意、生產、傳播、展示等等還有下面這些效果但是最重要是核心在於文化的內容是什麼\n然後再往下看的時候我看一下這個產值大家看到這個表當中可以看到我國的情況在從2017年到2020年到2023年的時候看起來我們在文化產值在文創那部分的產值占到我國的4點多%等等的那去年的時候我們收入期到2023年到4.78%看起來在GDP占起來是不錯的那我們可是再看看因為你後面講到一個你的目標是什麼\n我們往下看看到目標的情況之下您在去年就任三個月的時候提出來的是說要把\n要借鏡韓流當作是我們的一個文化的國際就是把韓流當作我們的目標然後變成說文化把它視為國家的戰略把台流要推向到國際來那這個地方我想您對韓流一定是有相當的有一些研究才會說出這樣的話那我就在想說請問部長你認為韓國文化產業有哪些優勢呢\n我想那個一個國家會推動文化產業跟國家的制度有關係韓國我非常清楚他是在2000年之後那個之前是金大中選上推翻了一個獨裁政權之後他領悟到說這個文化的產值會超過一些其他產業的可能性從那開始就推動這個韓流那推動的方式他就是鼓動自己政府用很多的經費之外\n鼓動整個民間投資所以滾動民間投資讓大家知道這個文化也是一筆好生意可以讓國家帶來非常多的這個外匯那個一旦覺醒之後所有的民間的企業就投入創造了今天已經遠遠超過各國的這個產值的一個寒冷好 謝謝部長那下一頁我們來看看\n這個部分當然我們先要剪斷一下我們台灣目前的文化產業的部分你可以看到在這個表當中藍色的部分是我們的外銷的產值那這個在我們整個的文化的產值當中\n只佔到十分之一左右外銷只佔十分之一甚至不到這個情況那我們再往下看所以距離說因為它發生寒流或是說要以後台流的影響力的話絕對還有很大很大的要去發展推展的空間那我們現在再看看剛才部長你有講到就是說政府的補助跟\n跟企業這邊有些合作的部分讓他去推展這邊看到在2000年開始的時候含有這個情況那我們現在看看台灣的情況是怎麼樣呢台灣在你們文化的產業當中目前16項裡面GDP要佔到4.78\n可是我去看到在南韓的部分它一項的就所謂的Cultural Content Industry這部分就至少在我們16項裡面大概只要一項大多或是一兩項這一部分加進來的時候它就超過7%的這個產值\n然後已經超過我們的兩兆台幣的話是這樣的狀況所以的確我們都還要很大的進步空間那我再定位的就是說再去追究它為什麼會造成這樣的原因的情況之下就在於說你說的沒有錯政策的部分資金的募集然後還有就是在政策上面文化自信多體緣多長而且表情的細膩等等還有國際的影響力那我們就繼續再往下看這部分我想要也許就填填看這個情況\n我之前跟部長你交換過意見的時候就提到是說韓劇啊他2000年開始對不對從一個醫療關懷的時候就看得到是什麼從大產經人的關懷古代的時候然後到螞蟻對動物的關懷到太陽的後裔到聯合國的peace keeping的往外去做這樣然後到現在醫生生活這部分那這邊都是同樣的就在創意在這邊那我們現在往下看我想跟大家講的是說想要請問部長的是說如果你要支持台流的情況那你的市場定位是怎麼樣\n我想資產地位一定是全世界都可以接受台流我們才可能生存下來而且是你剛才講GDP的問題但是我們先以亞洲國家作為第一個考量所以我們的國際合作裡面有蠻多是亞洲國家包括日本、越南等等然後第二個合作對象就是歐洲、法國、德國、英國等等\n還有美國資金資本的這個運作的來源的部分那有設計國發基金對不對這個這部分國發基金的這個內容那我想請問一下那個國策院就是院長因為那邊成立的文化內容策進院那這邊請問這個國發基金這一部分有100億也是蠻好的那我們從你們這個報告當中其實也看到有一些的包括評估啦然後包括他這次還有退場嘛\n那我想要問的是說你們現在目前的評估是這個有沒有在說評估到什麼情況他可以繼續留下來然後什麼時候是不能留下來的然後為什麼為此的十年才讓他退場\n跟委員報告因為我們國發基金的投資的這個退場的規定是比照國發基金母基金的規定那它就是頭七年之後會利用三年的時間來做退場那這個退場包含說它被下一階段投資人投資或者是往上市櫃來發展大概有多元的這個退場的機制那當然我們都很希望說從這個因為國發基金比較像是國家策略性的投資它希望在這個公司初期成長階段就能夠盡早\n提供資金進場的這樣支持機制那也就是委員所提到韓國其實也有相關的這種類似國發基金的國家投資的資金也來支持這個產業的發展那我想政府資金是蠻重要的跟委員報告那這一部分希望說在這個內容評鑑上面的時候事實上應該是核心在說什麼叫做台灣等於說事實上下面要問的問題要往下繼續看其他部分我們繼續往下看我們做出來的這樣的結果是看到其實是可能應該有階段性我們是期許自己剛剛\n市場定位在東南亞、亞洲、歐洲等等可以看到但是我們看到韓國這部分定位在好萊塢商業當然是他從2000年一直發展到現在已經20多年的效果等等另外我想說可能要引進所謂的私人企業如果說像國策院提到的私人基金目前還是以國家的資金去講\n要去做這個效益的評估事實上要增加的我想說這部分能不能提供三年之內的對於國策院所接受的這個案子或是說國發基金所這個案子當中可以提供這個相關的申請然後最後結果然後報告評估的報告給我們可以嗎\n應該是可以 因為我們這個文車業已經做了五年所以整個機制蠻清楚的所以這個報告應該是非常簡單的好 那幫他來報告一些行銷策略當中像Netflix這些部分 國際串流的部分那我們繼續往下看好 那台流這部分 剛才說何時會結束那我可以問一下這個地方那台流在發展的時候你覺得還欠缺哪些因素讓它可以再發展起來我覺得台流真的開始慢慢\n譬如說你講今年你打開那個OTD看台劇幾乎是大爆發了而且它的那個品質跟內容是跟韓劇跟日劇是或者是中國大陸的劇是完全不同的台灣經過很長一段時間的文化融合以後其實看到了台流\n是在今年或者去年他非常的清楚不太一樣文化部要做的是反而是要提供足夠的資金跟OTT平台讓他可以有地方可以演出所以大概是這樣\n所以這樣的情況之下也許預計大概至少大概可能再花個15年到20年是不是這樣的意思我很難講說15年20年我們每一個產業我都有一個大概的想像他大概譬如說漫畫漫畫我們距離日本\n韓國非常遙遠台灣人買台灣的漫畫大概只占日本漫畫的3%就跟剛才講的GDP差不多那我們努力三年內可以辦一個國際漫畫展但是在什麼時候可以超過韓國日本這個就當然努力啊所以這個時間點我覺得當然要加快但是加快的條件就是要給我們足夠的資源像100億的這個\n至今就是我非常感謝這個國發會立刻投入我們的第二個100億因為我們這些選區跟韓國投資來比還是非常少的所以我希望政府能夠大力的給我們更多的預算\n這個部分可能還是有需要再做具體的時間性可能像剛才說的只占到十分之一左右是不是可以大概說到也許在五年到十年之間的情況之下大概至少半到\n20%左右的這個產值不然的話你要說到要距離韓流的話實際上還很久這個情況那我剛才已經抽到這一些部分那時間關係我只是再提到一個部分就是大概30秒就結束就是說你這個target是不是在上面這邊往下到在所謂的因為外交部有提到要提到說部部都能夠推轉外交那您對於文化在外交上面有什麼樣的一個期許呢\n我覺得現在就台灣目前的現狀來講文化外交變得非常非常重要外交部長也今年用了我們文化部的一個國外交的那個團展去當奧地利的那個大使我跟他最近也談了很多今年很多的合作計畫我希望台灣的文化部可以扮演一個把台灣文化推向國際之後也幫助了台灣的外交\n進行文化外交這點說起來其實非常重要所以我還是那句話希望多給我們一點預算尤其是外交方面的需要很多的錢部長我覺得您從可能\n給錢事實上合理的都是必要性的但是問題是台灣文化content那個內容是什麼這部分如果像你過去有曾經提到的是都是一篇一篇的把它批出來就是只要發包出去或是說競標之後拿進來這樣的情況之下可是本身它是不是承襲的過去的從原住民的到華人的然後在日本的在西方的文明這部分你要可能要確認這個文化內涵是什麼\n如果你內涵不夠要做我剛剛說的content的不重要沒有把它核心撞起來的話其實是不夠的沒有辦法去吸引人的我想你要特別要注意到你覺得這樣的我的認為或是簡單問一下台灣文化的內涵是什麼\n我曾經去請教過委員委員的見解我非常同意就是文化本身是一個長期因為地理環境跟政治制度所留下來產生的新東西譬如說我舉個例子大家一直在講中華文化中華文化如果留在台灣一個民主社會的制度跟留在中國\n大陸那個獨裁政治所發展出來的文化就是不一樣那我覺得這是一個台灣非常好的機會我很有信心台灣經過這麼漫長的一個歷史的來來去去的文化台灣已經開始很有自己的能量創造出自己的文化你可以 我剛才講台劇 漫畫 文學你可以看到非常清楚它就是可以跟韓國 中國 日本區隔這就是文化\n中華文化是一個蠻抽象的名詞\n它歷經了幾千年的那種不同種族所產生的東西它來到台灣之後在台灣一個民主制度下它融合了非常多原住民的就像您剛才講的原住民的 西方的 日本的那個不是我想說中華文化如果留下來我就很想聽到這一部OK 那我想跟你聽嘛我覺得我們一直把中華文化跟台灣文化是形成一個對立的我覺得台灣文化跟中華文化是一個對話的\n那中華文化是在台灣文化裡面一個部分我覺得我們會保留它比較好的可是這個中華文化在中國大陸是變成一個統戰工具它是一個工具它不是文化它也不是中國的營養這一點我一直要重複地要講\n所以我覺得文燈我最後一句就在說您說了台灣保留了中華文化非常好的部分是確定的嘛對不對在一個民主自由的在民主制度下任何文化都會朝下一個比較善良的比較正面的東西任何一個文化在一個獨裁政權它會變扭曲成一個工具而且缺少真誠的感覺\n好 非常好 謝謝我們台灣真的是中華文化裡面可以發展的一個重要的基地好 謝謝 那當然台灣文化不只是包括中華文化還包括所有的整個歷史的包括日本的 美國的 原住民的好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.597 --> 00:23.842\n有請李部長還有文化內容策進院的院長吳俊偉先生好有請部長跟院長\n\n00:30.629 --> 00:32.309\n今天您的報告當中有三個重點文化政策、文化產業、文化建設我今天想針對文化產業的部分來做一個質詢\n\n00:48.454 --> 00:54.657\n文化產業之所以重要就在於說它本身就可以發揮到軟實力可以像經濟一樣的發揮到後面的影響包括觀光、飲食、衣著等等的後續的影響發揮到很大的效果我們看到文化創意產業當中根據文化創意產業的發展法有16項\n\n01:12.547 --> 01:17.688\n那這16項當中呢文化部又把你們關鍵的內容上面又把五大產業就是影視產業、流行音樂、出版產業還有文創與文化科技、動畫與漫畫剛才你都有講到漫畫這一部分那我們就想要看它既然是個產業的話是不是要重視到它的產值那我們就往下看\n\n01:35.333 --> 01:39.558\n而且它產值因為很重要我今天把它的文化產業當中特別我想要把它的重要是它的內容是什麼它的內容當中最重要是創意、生產、傳播、展示等等還有下面這些效果但是最重要是核心在於文化的內容是什麼\n\n01:52.333 --> 02:12.797\n然後再往下看的時候我看一下這個產值大家看到這個表當中可以看到我國的情況在從2017年到2020年到2023年的時候看起來我們在文化產值在文創那部分的產值占到我國的4點多%等等的那去年的時候我們收入期到2023年到4.78%看起來在GDP占起來是不錯的那我們可是再看看因為你後面講到一個你的目標是什麼\n\n02:21.919 --> 02:28.930\n我們往下看看到目標的情況之下您在去年就任三個月的時候提出來的是說要把\n\n02:30.492 --> 02:46.862\n要借鏡韓流當作是我們的一個文化的國際就是把韓流當作我們的目標然後變成說文化把它視為國家的戰略把台流要推向到國際來那這個地方我想您對韓流一定是有相當的有一些研究才會說出這樣的話那我就在想說請問部長你認為韓國文化產業有哪些優勢呢\n\n02:54.329 --> 03:21.138\n我想那個一個國家會推動文化產業跟國家的制度有關係韓國我非常清楚他是在2000年之後那個之前是金大中選上推翻了一個獨裁政權之後他領悟到說這個文化的產值會超過一些其他產業的可能性從那開始就推動這個韓流那推動的方式他就是鼓動自己政府用很多的經費之外\n\n03:21.738 --> 03:44.468\n鼓動整個民間投資所以滾動民間投資讓大家知道這個文化也是一筆好生意可以讓國家帶來非常多的這個外匯那個一旦覺醒之後所有的民間的企業就投入創造了今天已經遠遠超過各國的這個產值的一個寒冷好謝謝部長那下一頁我們來看看\n\n03:46.010 --> 03:48.954\n這個部分當然我們先要剪斷一下我們台灣目前的文化產業的部分你可以看到在這個表當中藍色的部分是我們的外銷的產值那這個在我們整個的文化的產值當中\n\n04:01.292 --> 04:21.688\n只佔到十分之一左右外銷只佔十分之一甚至不到這個情況那我們再往下看所以距離說因為它發生寒流或是說要以後台流的影響力的話絕對還有很大很大的要去發展推展的空間那我們現在再看看剛才部長你有講到就是說政府的補助跟\n\n04:23.328 --> 04:27.472\n跟企業這邊有些合作的部分讓他去推展這邊看到在2000年開始的時候含有這個情況那我們現在看看台灣的情況是怎麼樣呢台灣在你們文化的產業當中目前16項裡面GDP要佔到4.78\n\n04:38.944 --> 04:42.848\n可是我去看到在南韓的部分它一項的就所謂的CulturalContentIndustry這部分就至少在我們16項裡面大概只要一項大多或是一兩項這一部分加進來的時候它就超過7%的這個產值\n\n04:54.580 --> 05:17.888\n然後已經超過我們的兩兆台幣的話是這樣的狀況所以的確我們都還要很大的進步空間那我再定位的就是說再去追究它為什麼會造成這樣的原因的情況之下就在於說你說的沒有錯政策的部分資金的募集然後還有就是在政策上面文化自信多體緣多長而且表情的細膩等等還有國際的影響力那我們就繼續再往下看這部分我想要也許就填填看這個情況\n\n05:19.429 --> 05:41.236\n我之前跟部長你交換過意見的時候就提到是說韓劇啊他2000年開始對不對從一個醫療關懷的時候就看得到是什麼從大產經人的關懷古代的時候然後到螞蟻對動物的關懷到太陽的後裔到聯合國的peacekeeping的往外去做這樣然後到現在醫生生活這部分那這邊都是同樣的就在創意在這邊那我們現在往下看我想跟大家講的是說想要請問部長的是說如果你要支持台流的情況那你的市場定位是怎麼樣\n\n05:50.660 --> 06:15.934\n我想資產地位一定是全世界都可以接受台流我們才可能生存下來而且是你剛才講GDP的問題但是我們先以亞洲國家作為第一個考量所以我們的國際合作裡面有蠻多是亞洲國家包括日本、越南等等然後第二個合作對象就是歐洲、法國、德國、英國等等\n\n06:16.394 --> 06:21.776\n還有美國資金資本的這個運作的來源的部分那有設計國發基金對不對這個這部分國發基金的這個內容那我想請問一下那個國策院就是院長因為那邊成立的文化內容策進院那這邊請問這個國發基金這一部分有100億也是蠻好的那我們從你們這個報告當中其實也看到有一些的包括評估啦然後包括他這次還有退場嘛\n\n06:44.065 --> 06:54.451\n那我想要問的是說你們現在目前的評估是這個有沒有在說評估到什麼情況他可以繼續留下來然後什麼時候是不能留下來的然後為什麼為此的十年才讓他退場\n\n06:56.207 --> 07:22.334\n跟委員報告因為我們國發基金的投資的這個退場的規定是比照國發基金母基金的規定那它就是頭七年之後會利用三年的時間來做退場那這個退場包含說它被下一階段投資人投資或者是往上市櫃來發展大概有多元的這個退場的機制那當然我們都很希望說從這個因為國發基金比較像是國家策略性的投資它希望在這個公司初期成長階段就能夠盡早\n\n07:23.454 --> 07:50.194\n提供資金進場的這樣支持機制那也就是委員所提到韓國其實也有相關的這種類似國發基金的國家投資的資金也來支持這個產業的發展那我想政府資金是蠻重要的跟委員報告那這一部分希望說在這個內容評鑑上面的時候事實上應該是核心在說什麼叫做台灣等於說事實上下面要問的問題要往下繼續看其他部分我們繼續往下看我們做出來的這樣的結果是看到其實是可能應該有階段性我們是期許自己剛剛\n\n07:51.015 --> 07:57.099\n市場定位在東南亞、亞洲、歐洲等等可以看到但是我們看到韓國這部分定位在好萊塢商業當然是他從2000年一直發展到現在已經20多年的效果等等另外我想說可能要引進所謂的私人企業如果說像國策院提到的私人基金目前還是以國家的資金去講\n\n08:16.790 --> 08:28.659\n要去做這個效益的評估事實上要增加的我想說這部分能不能提供三年之內的對於國策院所接受的這個案子或是說國發基金所這個案子當中可以提供這個相關的申請然後最後結果然後報告評估的報告給我們可以嗎\n\n08:34.750 --> 08:58.985\n應該是可以因為我們這個文車業已經做了五年所以整個機制蠻清楚的所以這個報告應該是非常簡單的好那幫他來報告一些行銷策略當中像Netflix這些部分國際串流的部分那我們繼續往下看好那台流這部分剛才說何時會結束那我可以問一下這個地方那台流在發展的時候你覺得還欠缺哪些因素讓它可以再發展起來我覺得台流真的開始慢慢\n\n09:04.448 --> 09:23.703\n譬如說你講今年你打開那個OTD看台劇幾乎是大爆發了而且它的那個品質跟內容是跟韓劇跟日劇是或者是中國大陸的劇是完全不同的台灣經過很長一段時間的文化融合以後其實看到了台流\n\n09:24.423 --> 09:39.166\n是在今年或者去年他非常的清楚不太一樣文化部要做的是反而是要提供足夠的資金跟OTT平台讓他可以有地方可以演出所以大概是這樣\n\n09:40.376 --> 09:55.630\n所以這樣的情況之下也許預計大概至少大概可能再花個15年到20年是不是這樣的意思我很難講說15年20年我們每一個產業我都有一個大概的想像他大概譬如說漫畫漫畫我們距離日本\n\n09:56.851 --> 10:21.329\n韓國非常遙遠台灣人買台灣的漫畫大概只占日本漫畫的3%就跟剛才講的GDP差不多那我們努力三年內可以辦一個國際漫畫展但是在什麼時候可以超過韓國日本這個就當然努力啊所以這個時間點我覺得當然要加快但是加快的條件就是要給我們足夠的資源像100億的這個\n\n10:22.910 --> 10:35.996\n至今就是我非常感謝這個國發會立刻投入我們的第二個100億因為我們這些選區跟韓國投資來比還是非常少的所以我希望政府能夠大力的給我們更多的預算\n\n10:41.263 --> 10:52.854\n這個部分可能還是有需要再做具體的時間性可能像剛才說的只占到十分之一左右是不是可以大概說到也許在五年到十年之間的情況之下大概至少半到\n\n10:54.276 --> 11:19.159\n20%左右的這個產值不然的話你要說到要距離韓流的話實際上還很久這個情況那我剛才已經抽到這一些部分那時間關係我只是再提到一個部分就是大概30秒就結束就是說你這個target是不是在上面這邊往下到在所謂的因為外交部有提到要提到說部部都能夠推轉外交那您對於文化在外交上面有什麼樣的一個期許呢\n\n11:20.211 --> 11:47.110\n我覺得現在就台灣目前的現狀來講文化外交變得非常非常重要外交部長也今年用了我們文化部的一個國外交的那個團展去當奧地利的那個大使我跟他最近也談了很多今年很多的合作計畫我希望台灣的文化部可以扮演一個把台灣文化推向國際之後也幫助了台灣的外交\n\n11:48.070 --> 12:00.249\n進行文化外交這點說起來其實非常重要所以我還是那句話希望多給我們一點預算尤其是外交方面的需要很多的錢部長我覺得您從可能\n\n12:01.727 --> 12:27.327\n給錢事實上合理的都是必要性的但是問題是台灣文化content那個內容是什麼這部分如果像你過去有曾經提到的是都是一篇一篇的把它批出來就是只要發包出去或是說競標之後拿進來這樣的情況之下可是本身它是不是承襲的過去的從原住民的到華人的然後在日本的在西方的文明這部分你要可能要確認這個文化內涵是什麼\n\n12:29.048 --> 12:40.040\n如果你內涵不夠要做我剛剛說的content的不重要沒有把它核心撞起來的話其實是不夠的沒有辦法去吸引人的我想你要特別要注意到你覺得這樣的我的認為或是簡單問一下台灣文化的內涵是什麼\n\n12:44.155 --> 13:04.646\n我曾經去請教過委員委員的見解我非常同意就是文化本身是一個長期因為地理環境跟政治制度所留下來產生的新東西譬如說我舉個例子大家一直在講中華文化中華文化如果留在台灣一個民主社會的制度跟留在中國\n\n13:05.626 --> 13:33.306\n大陸那個獨裁政治所發展出來的文化就是不一樣那我覺得這是一個台灣非常好的機會我很有信心台灣經過這麼漫長的一個歷史的來來去去的文化台灣已經開始很有自己的能量創造出自己的文化你可以我剛才講台劇漫畫文學你可以看到非常清楚它就是可以跟韓國中國日本區隔這就是文化\n\n13:33.826 --> 13:34.487\n中華文化是一個蠻抽象的名詞\n\n13:50.029 --> 14:16.807\n它歷經了幾千年的那種不同種族所產生的東西它來到台灣之後在台灣一個民主制度下它融合了非常多原住民的就像您剛才講的原住民的西方的日本的那個不是我想說中華文化如果留下來我就很想聽到這一部OK那我想跟你聽嘛我覺得我們一直把中華文化跟台灣文化是形成一個對立的我覺得台灣文化跟中華文化是一個對話的\n\n14:18.468 --> 14:35.130\n那中華文化是在台灣文化裡面一個部分我覺得我們會保留它比較好的可是這個中華文化在中國大陸是變成一個統戰工具它是一個工具它不是文化它也不是中國的營養這一點我一直要重複地要講\n\n14:35.951 --> 14:57.557\n所以我覺得文燈我最後一句就在說您說了台灣保留了中華文化非常好的部分是確定的嘛對不對在一個民主自由的在民主制度下任何文化都會朝下一個比較善良的比較正面的東西任何一個文化在一個獨裁政權它會變扭曲成一個工具而且缺少真誠的感覺\n\n14:58.837 --> 15:12.345\n好非常好謝謝我們台灣真的是中華文化裡面可以發展的一個重要的基地好謝謝那當然台灣文化不只是包括中華文化還包括所有的整個歷史的包括日本的美國的原住民的好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.597,"end":23.842,"text":"有請李部長還有文化內容策進院的院長吳俊偉先生好 有請部長跟院長"},{"start":30.629,"end":32.309,"text":"今天您的報告當中有三個重點文化政策、文化產業、文化建設我今天想針對文化產業的部分來做一個質詢"},{"start":48.454,"end":54.657,"text":"文化產業之所以重要就在於說它本身就可以發揮到軟實力可以像經濟一樣的發揮到後面的影響包括觀光、飲食、衣著等等的後續的影響發揮到很大的效果我們看到文化創意產業當中根據文化創意產業的發展法有16項"},{"start":72.547,"end":77.688,"text":"那這16項當中呢 文化部又把你們關鍵的內容上面 又把五大產業就是影視產業、流行音樂、出版產業還有文創與文化科技、動畫與漫畫 剛才你都有講到漫畫這一部分那我們就想要看它既然是個產業的話 是不是要重視到它的產值那我們就往下看"},{"start":95.333,"end":99.558,"text":"而且它產值因為很重要我今天把它的文化產業當中特別我想要把它的重要是它的內容是什麼它的內容當中最重要是創意、生產、傳播、展示等等還有下面這些效果但是最重要是核心在於文化的內容是什麼"},{"start":112.333,"end":132.797,"text":"然後再往下看的時候我看一下這個產值大家看到這個表當中可以看到我國的情況在從2017年到2020年到2023年的時候看起來我們在文化產值在文創那部分的產值占到我國的4點多%等等的那去年的時候我們收入期到2023年到4.78%看起來在GDP占起來是不錯的那我們可是再看看因為你後面講到一個你的目標是什麼"},{"start":141.919,"end":148.93,"text":"我們往下看看到目標的情況之下您在去年就任三個月的時候提出來的是說要把"},{"start":150.492,"end":166.862,"text":"要借鏡韓流當作是我們的一個文化的國際就是把韓流當作我們的目標然後變成說文化把它視為國家的戰略把台流要推向到國際來那這個地方我想您對韓流一定是有相當的有一些研究才會說出這樣的話那我就在想說請問部長你認為韓國文化產業有哪些優勢呢"},{"start":174.329,"end":201.138,"text":"我想那個一個國家會推動文化產業跟國家的制度有關係韓國我非常清楚他是在2000年之後那個之前是金大中選上推翻了一個獨裁政權之後他領悟到說這個文化的產值會超過一些其他產業的可能性從那開始就推動這個韓流那推動的方式他就是鼓動自己政府用很多的經費之外"},{"start":201.738,"end":224.468,"text":"鼓動整個民間投資所以滾動民間投資讓大家知道這個文化也是一筆好生意可以讓國家帶來非常多的這個外匯那個一旦覺醒之後所有的民間的企業就投入創造了今天已經遠遠超過各國的這個產值的一個寒冷好 謝謝部長那下一頁我們來看看"},{"start":226.01,"end":228.954,"text":"這個部分當然我們先要剪斷一下我們台灣目前的文化產業的部分你可以看到在這個表當中藍色的部分是我們的外銷的產值那這個在我們整個的文化的產值當中"},{"start":241.292,"end":261.688,"text":"只佔到十分之一左右外銷只佔十分之一甚至不到這個情況那我們再往下看所以距離說因為它發生寒流或是說要以後台流的影響力的話絕對還有很大很大的要去發展推展的空間那我們現在再看看剛才部長你有講到就是說政府的補助跟"},{"start":263.328,"end":267.472,"text":"跟企業這邊有些合作的部分讓他去推展這邊看到在2000年開始的時候含有這個情況那我們現在看看台灣的情況是怎麼樣呢台灣在你們文化的產業當中目前16項裡面GDP要佔到4.78"},{"start":278.944,"end":282.848,"text":"可是我去看到在南韓的部分它一項的就所謂的Cultural Content Industry這部分就至少在我們16項裡面大概只要一項大多或是一兩項這一部分加進來的時候它就超過7%的這個產值"},{"start":294.58,"end":317.888,"text":"然後已經超過我們的兩兆台幣的話是這樣的狀況所以的確我們都還要很大的進步空間那我再定位的就是說再去追究它為什麼會造成這樣的原因的情況之下就在於說你說的沒有錯政策的部分資金的募集然後還有就是在政策上面文化自信多體緣多長而且表情的細膩等等還有國際的影響力那我們就繼續再往下看這部分我想要也許就填填看這個情況"},{"start":319.429,"end":341.236,"text":"我之前跟部長你交換過意見的時候就提到是說韓劇啊他2000年開始對不對從一個醫療關懷的時候就看得到是什麼從大產經人的關懷古代的時候然後到螞蟻對動物的關懷到太陽的後裔到聯合國的peace keeping的往外去做這樣然後到現在醫生生活這部分那這邊都是同樣的就在創意在這邊那我們現在往下看我想跟大家講的是說想要請問部長的是說如果你要支持台流的情況那你的市場定位是怎麼樣"},{"start":350.66,"end":375.934,"text":"我想資產地位一定是全世界都可以接受台流我們才可能生存下來而且是你剛才講GDP的問題但是我們先以亞洲國家作為第一個考量所以我們的國際合作裡面有蠻多是亞洲國家包括日本、越南等等然後第二個合作對象就是歐洲、法國、德國、英國等等"},{"start":376.394,"end":381.776,"text":"還有美國資金資本的這個運作的來源的部分那有設計國發基金對不對這個這部分國發基金的這個內容那我想請問一下那個國策院就是院長因為那邊成立的文化內容策進院那這邊請問這個國發基金這一部分有100億也是蠻好的那我們從你們這個報告當中其實也看到有一些的包括評估啦然後包括他這次還有退場嘛"},{"start":404.065,"end":414.451,"text":"那我想要問的是說你們現在目前的評估是這個有沒有在說評估到什麼情況他可以繼續留下來然後什麼時候是不能留下來的然後為什麼為此的十年才讓他退場"},{"start":416.207,"end":442.334,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們國發基金的投資的這個退場的規定是比照國發基金母基金的規定那它就是頭七年之後會利用三年的時間來做退場那這個退場包含說它被下一階段投資人投資或者是往上市櫃來發展大概有多元的這個退場的機制那當然我們都很希望說從這個因為國發基金比較像是國家策略性的投資它希望在這個公司初期成長階段就能夠盡早"},{"start":443.454,"end":470.194,"text":"提供資金進場的這樣支持機制那也就是委員所提到韓國其實也有相關的這種類似國發基金的國家投資的資金也來支持這個產業的發展那我想政府資金是蠻重要的跟委員報告那這一部分希望說在這個內容評鑑上面的時候事實上應該是核心在說什麼叫做台灣等於說事實上下面要問的問題要往下繼續看其他部分我們繼續往下看我們做出來的這樣的結果是看到其實是可能應該有階段性我們是期許自己剛剛"},{"start":471.015,"end":477.099,"text":"市場定位在東南亞、亞洲、歐洲等等可以看到但是我們看到韓國這部分定位在好萊塢商業當然是他從2000年一直發展到現在已經20多年的效果等等另外我想說可能要引進所謂的私人企業如果說像國策院提到的私人基金目前還是以國家的資金去講"},{"start":496.79,"end":508.659,"text":"要去做這個效益的評估事實上要增加的我想說這部分能不能提供三年之內的對於國策院所接受的這個案子或是說國發基金所這個案子當中可以提供這個相關的申請然後最後結果然後報告評估的報告給我們可以嗎"},{"start":514.75,"end":538.985,"text":"應該是可以 因為我們這個文車業已經做了五年所以整個機制蠻清楚的所以這個報告應該是非常簡單的好 那幫他來報告一些行銷策略當中像Netflix這些部分 國際串流的部分那我們繼續往下看好 那台流這部分 剛才說何時會結束那我可以問一下這個地方那台流在發展的時候你覺得還欠缺哪些因素讓它可以再發展起來我覺得台流真的開始慢慢"},{"start":544.448,"end":563.703,"text":"譬如說你講今年你打開那個OTD看台劇幾乎是大爆發了而且它的那個品質跟內容是跟韓劇跟日劇是或者是中國大陸的劇是完全不同的台灣經過很長一段時間的文化融合以後其實看到了台流"},{"start":564.423,"end":579.166,"text":"是在今年或者去年他非常的清楚不太一樣文化部要做的是反而是要提供足夠的資金跟OTT平台讓他可以有地方可以演出所以大概是這樣"},{"start":580.376,"end":595.63,"text":"所以這樣的情況之下也許預計大概至少大概可能再花個15年到20年是不是這樣的意思我很難講說15年20年我們每一個產業我都有一個大概的想像他大概譬如說漫畫漫畫我們距離日本"},{"start":596.851,"end":621.329,"text":"韓國非常遙遠台灣人買台灣的漫畫大概只占日本漫畫的3%就跟剛才講的GDP差不多那我們努力三年內可以辦一個國際漫畫展但是在什麼時候可以超過韓國日本這個就當然努力啊所以這個時間點我覺得當然要加快但是加快的條件就是要給我們足夠的資源像100億的這個"},{"start":622.91,"end":635.996,"text":"至今就是我非常感謝這個國發會立刻投入我們的第二個100億因為我們這些選區跟韓國投資來比還是非常少的所以我希望政府能夠大力的給我們更多的預算"},{"start":641.263,"end":652.854,"text":"這個部分可能還是有需要再做具體的時間性可能像剛才說的只占到十分之一左右是不是可以大概說到也許在五年到十年之間的情況之下大概至少半到"},{"start":654.276,"end":679.159,"text":"20%左右的這個產值不然的話你要說到要距離韓流的話實際上還很久這個情況那我剛才已經抽到這一些部分那時間關係我只是再提到一個部分就是大概30秒就結束就是說你這個target是不是在上面這邊往下到在所謂的因為外交部有提到要提到說部部都能夠推轉外交那您對於文化在外交上面有什麼樣的一個期許呢"},{"start":680.211,"end":707.11,"text":"我覺得現在就台灣目前的現狀來講文化外交變得非常非常重要外交部長也今年用了我們文化部的一個國外交的那個團展去當奧地利的那個大使我跟他最近也談了很多今年很多的合作計畫我希望台灣的文化部可以扮演一個把台灣文化推向國際之後也幫助了台灣的外交"},{"start":708.07,"end":720.249,"text":"進行文化外交這點說起來其實非常重要所以我還是那句話希望多給我們一點預算尤其是外交方面的需要很多的錢部長我覺得您從可能"},{"start":721.727,"end":747.327,"text":"給錢事實上合理的都是必要性的但是問題是台灣文化content那個內容是什麼這部分如果像你過去有曾經提到的是都是一篇一篇的把它批出來就是只要發包出去或是說競標之後拿進來這樣的情況之下可是本身它是不是承襲的過去的從原住民的到華人的然後在日本的在西方的文明這部分你要可能要確認這個文化內涵是什麼"},{"start":749.048,"end":760.04,"text":"如果你內涵不夠要做我剛剛說的content的不重要沒有把它核心撞起來的話其實是不夠的沒有辦法去吸引人的我想你要特別要注意到你覺得這樣的我的認為或是簡單問一下台灣文化的內涵是什麼"},{"start":764.155,"end":784.646,"text":"我曾經去請教過委員委員的見解我非常同意就是文化本身是一個長期因為地理環境跟政治制度所留下來產生的新東西譬如說我舉個例子大家一直在講中華文化中華文化如果留在台灣一個民主社會的制度跟留在中國"},{"start":785.626,"end":813.306,"text":"大陸那個獨裁政治所發展出來的文化就是不一樣那我覺得這是一個台灣非常好的機會我很有信心台灣經過這麼漫長的一個歷史的來來去去的文化台灣已經開始很有自己的能量創造出自己的文化你可以 我剛才講台劇 漫畫 文學你可以看到非常清楚它就是可以跟韓國 中國 日本區隔這就是文化"},{"start":813.826,"end":814.487,"text":"中華文化是一個蠻抽象的名詞"},{"start":830.029,"end":856.807,"text":"它歷經了幾千年的那種不同種族所產生的東西它來到台灣之後在台灣一個民主制度下它融合了非常多原住民的就像您剛才講的原住民的 西方的 日本的那個不是我想說中華文化如果留下來我就很想聽到這一部OK 那我想跟你聽嘛我覺得我們一直把中華文化跟台灣文化是形成一個對立的我覺得台灣文化跟中華文化是一個對話的"},{"start":858.468,"end":875.13,"text":"那中華文化是在台灣文化裡面一個部分我覺得我們會保留它比較好的可是這個中華文化在中國大陸是變成一個統戰工具它是一個工具它不是文化它也不是中國的營養這一點我一直要重複地要講"},{"start":875.951,"end":897.557,"text":"所以我覺得文燈我最後一句就在說您說了台灣保留了中華文化非常好的部分是確定的嘛對不對在一個民主自由的在民主制度下任何文化都會朝下一個比較善良的比較正面的東西任何一個文化在一個獨裁政權它會變扭曲成一個工具而且缺少真誠的感覺"},{"start":898.837,"end":912.345,"text":"好 非常好 謝謝我們台灣真的是中華文化裡面可以發展的一個重要的基地好 謝謝 那當然台灣文化不只是包括中華文化還包括所有的整個歷史的包括日本的 美國的 原住民的好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":219,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（9時51分）有請李部長，還有文化內容策進院的院長盧俊偉先生。"],["主席：有請部長跟院長。"],["李部長遠：劉委員，你好。"],["劉委員書彬：部長，您好。今天您的報告當中有三個重點，文化政策、文化產業還有所謂的文化建設，我今天想要針對的是文化產業的部分來質詢。文化產業之所以重要就在於它本身就可以發揮軟實力，可以像經濟一樣，後面的影響包括到觀光還有飲食、衣著等等的，後續的影響發揮到很大的效果，我們看到文化產業當中，根據文化創意產業發展法有十六項，這十六項當中，文化部在關鍵的內容上面又有五大產業，就是影視產業、流行音樂、出版產業，還有文創與文化科技、動畫與漫畫，剛才你有講到漫畫這部分。那我們就想想看，既然是個產業，是不是要重視它的產值？更重要的是，因為產值很重要，所以我今天特別要提出文化產業的內容是什麼？它的內容包括了創意、生產、傳播、展示等等，還有圖表下面的這些效果，但最重要的核心在於文化的內容。","接下來我們來看產值的部分，從這個表當中，可以看到我國的情況，從2017年到2023年，我們的文化產值、文創部分的產值，占我國GDP的百分之四點多，2023年是4.78%，看起來算不錯。因為部長後面講到文化發展目標，那我們就往下看，您在去年就任三個月時提出要借鏡韓流，以此為我們的目標，然後把文化發展視為國家戰略，致力將臺流推向國際。我想部長對韓流應該有相當研究，才會說出這樣的話，請問部長認為韓國文化產業有哪些優勢？"],["李部長遠：我想一個國家會推動文化產業，跟國家的制度有關係，韓國我非常清楚，之前是金大中選上總統，推翻了獨裁政權之後，領悟到文化產值超過其他產業的可能性，所以在2000年開始推動韓流，推動的方式除了政府投入很多經費之外，也鼓動整個民間的投資，因為鼓動民間投資，讓大家知道文化也是一筆好生意，可以為國家帶來非常多的外匯，一旦覺醒之後，所有民間企業就會投入，創造了今天已經遠遠超過各國產值的韓流。"],["劉委員書彬：好，謝謝部長。當然，我們要先診斷臺灣目前文化產業的問題，您看在這張表當中，藍色部分是我們的文化外銷產值，大概占整個文化產值的十分之一左右，等於外銷只占十分之一，甚至不到，這是目前的情況，距離要發生像韓流或以後臺流要有這樣一個影響力，絕對還有很大很大的發展、推展空間。剛才部長提到韓國政府的補助跟企業合作推展，這是2000年韓流開始時的情況。再反觀臺灣的情況，臺灣的情況是16項文化產業的產值占GDP4.78%，可是南韓的部分，他們1項文化內容產業，即所謂的Cultural Content Industry，事實上大概是占我們16項中的1項多一點或是1、2項，但它的產值超過7%，大概臺幣2兆，所以我們的確還有很大的進步空間。","我們再去追究為什麼會造成這樣的情況？部長說的沒有錯，包括政策部分和資金募集。政策部分包括文化自信、題材多元、情感表達細膩，還有國際影響力等。我之前跟部長交換意見的時候就提到，韓劇是2000年開始，對不對？從醫療關懷開始，在古代的時候，有「大長今」對人的關懷、「馬醫」對動物的關懷，到「太陽的後裔」──從聯合國的peacekeeping往外發展，然後到現在的「機智醫生生活」，這些同樣都有其創意在裡面，我想請問部長，如果你是支持臺流，那你的市場定位是怎麼樣？"],["李部長遠：我想市場定位一定是全世界都可以接受臺流，我們才可能生存下來，而且還有你剛才講的GDP問題，但我們先以亞洲國家作為第一個考量，所以我們的國際合作裡面有蠻多是亞洲國家，包括日本、越南等等，然後第二個合作對象就是歐洲、法國、德國、英國，還有美國等等。"],["劉委員書彬：好，因為時間關係，我們繼續往下看。有關資金、資本運作，即來源的部分，我們有設定國發基金，對不對？對此，我想請問文策院盧院長，因為文化內容策進院運用國發基金在這部分會再投入100億，這蠻好的，我從你的報告中看到有一些評估，甚至包括退場機制。請問你們目前有沒有評估在什麼情況下可以繼續留下來？什麼時候是不能留下來？又為什麼要維持10年才讓它退場？"],["盧院長俊偉：跟委員報告，國發基金投資的退場規定，是比照國發基金母基金的規定，就是投資7年之後，會利用3年的時間來退場，這個退場包含它被下一階段投資人投資，或者是往上市、櫃發展，大概有多元的退場機制。因為國發基金比較像是國家策略性的投資，希望在公司初期成長階段，能夠儘早提供資金進場的支持機制，也就是委員所提到的，韓國其實也有相關的這種類似國發基金的國家投資資金，支持這個產業的發展，我想政府資金是蠻重要的，跟委員報告。"],["劉委員書彬：好，針對這部分，希望在內容評鑑上面，應該重視的核心是什麼叫做臺灣，也就是我下面要問的問題，就是我們做出來的結果其實應該有階段性，我們要期許自己，就像剛剛部長提到的市場定位，這部分先提到東南亞，之後再亞洲、再到所謂的歐美等等。但是我們看到韓國這部分，事實上是有定位到好萊塢的商業模式，當然它從2000年一直發展到現在，已經有二十多年的效果。另外，我想可能要引進所謂的私人企業，如果像文策院提到的，目前還是以國家資金為主，也要增加效益評估，所以請你們把3年之內文策院接受的案子或國發基金接受的案子，相關的申請資料及最後結果，包括評估報告等，提供給我們，可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：應該可以，因為文策院已經做了5年，整個機制蠻清楚的，這個報告應該是非常簡單。"],["劉委員書彬：好，還包括一些行銷策略，像是Netflix等國際串流平臺的部分。","另外，剛才提到臺流何時崛起的問題，我想請問部長，針對臺流發展，你覺得還欠缺哪些可以讓它再發展起來的因素？"],["李部長遠：我覺得臺流真的開始慢慢起來，譬如今年你打開OTT，臺劇幾乎是大爆發，而且它的品質、內容跟韓劇、日劇或者中國大陸的劇完全不同，臺灣經過很長一段時間的文化融合以後，在今年或去年看到的臺流，非常清楚是不太一樣的，文化部要做的反而是提供足夠的資金跟OTT平臺，讓它有地方可以演出，大概是這樣。"],["劉委員書彬：在這樣的情況之下，預計也許至少再花個15年到20年，是不是這樣的意思？"],["李部長遠：我很難說15年、20年，對每一個產業，我們都有一個大概的想像，譬如漫畫，我們距離日本、韓國非常遙遠，臺灣人買臺灣的漫畫大概只占日本漫畫的3%，就跟剛才講的GDP差不多，我們努力在3年內可以辦一個國際漫畫展，但是什麼時候可以超過韓國、日本，這個需要大家的努力，在時間點上，我覺得當然要加快，但是加快的條件就是要給我們足夠的資源。像100億這個資金，我非常感謝國發會立刻投入給我們第二個100億，因為我們這些錢跟韓國投資比較起來，還是非常少的，所以我希望政府能夠大力的給更多的預算。"],["劉委員書彬：好，這個部分可能還需要有更具體的作為，但時間上可能還是要加快，像剛才說的，目前只占十分之一左右，也許在5年到10年之間，是不是大概可以至少上升到20%左右的產值？不然說要跟上韓流的腳步，事實上可能還需要很久的時間。","因為時間關係，我再提一個問題，大概不到30秒就結束了。有關Target Audience部分，外交部提到「部部都是外交部」，希望能夠推展外交，請問您對於文化在外交上面，有什麼樣的期許呢？"],["李部長遠：我覺得就臺灣目前的現狀來講，文化外交變得非常、非常重要，外交部長今年也用了文化部的國臺交團長去當奧地利大使，最近我跟他也談了很多今年的合作計畫。我希望臺灣文化部可以扮演一個把臺灣文化推向國際的角色，也幫助臺灣進行文化外交，這點說起來其實非常重要，所以我還是那句話，希望多給我們一點預算，尤其是外交方面需要很多的錢。"],["劉委員書彬：部長，事實上給錢，合理的都是必要的，但是問題是臺灣文化content（內容）是什麼？這部分如果像你過去曾經提到的，都是一篇一篇的把它批出來，只要發包出去，或是競標之後拿進來，在這樣的情況之下……可是它本身是不是承襲過去，從原住民到華人，然後在日本、西方文明等，你可能要確認這個文化內涵是什麼。如果內涵不夠，就如我剛才所說的，content不重要，沒有把核心壯起來的話，其實是不夠的、沒有辦法吸引人的。我想你要特別注意這個，或者是您簡單跟我講，臺灣文化的內涵是什麼？"],["李部長遠：我曾經請教過委員，對於委員的見解，我非常同意，文化本身是一個長期因為地理環境跟政治制度所留下、產生的新東西。我舉個例子，大家一直在講中華文化，中華文化如果留在臺灣這個民主社會制度，跟留在中國大陸那個獨裁政治所發展出來的就是不一樣，我覺得這是臺灣非常好的機會，我很有信心，臺灣經過這麼漫長的歷史、來來去去的文化，已經開始很有自己的能量，創造出自己的文化。我剛才講到臺劇、漫畫、文學，你可以非常清楚的看到，我們可以跟韓國、中國、日本區隔，這就是文化。"],["劉委員書彬：對，可是你剛才提到中華文化，你說中華文化如果繼續留在臺灣發揚光大會有不一樣的特質，請問一下照你這樣說的話，中華文化什麼樣的特質會留在臺灣？"],["李部長遠：中華文化其實是一個蠻抽象的名詞，因為它是歷經了幾千年不同種族所產生的東西，來到臺灣之後，在臺灣民主制度下融合了非常多，就像您剛才講的，有原住民的、西方的、日本的……"],["劉委員書彬：那個不是……我想問的是中華文化如果留下來，我很想聽到這一部分。"],["李部長遠：OK，那我講給你聽。"],["劉委員書彬：民主當然是源自西方，可是留下來的是什麼？"],["李部長遠：我們一直認為中華文化跟臺灣文化是形成對立的……"],["劉委員書彬：沒有、沒有。"],["李部長遠：我覺得臺灣文化跟中華文化是個對話的，中華文化是在臺灣文化裡面的一個部分，我覺得我們會保留比較好的，可是中華文化在中國大陸變成是統戰工具，它是一個工具，不是文化，也不是中國的營養，這點我一直要重複的講。"],["劉委員書彬：所以我的最後一句就在於，您說臺灣保留了中華文化非常好的部分是確定的，對不對？"],["李部長遠：在一個民主自由的……"],["劉委員書彬：對，就是現在的民主制度……"],["李部長遠：在民主制度下，任何文化都會朝向一個比較善良的、比較正面的東西……"],["劉委員書彬：對。"],["李部長遠：任何文化在獨裁政權之下就會被扭曲成一個工具，而且缺少真誠的感覺。"],["劉委員書彬：好，非常好，謝謝。臺灣真的是中華文化可以發展的重要基地，當然臺灣文化不只是包括中華文化，還包括整個歷史的，也包括日本的、美國的，還有原住民的，謝謝。"],["李部長遠：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉書彬委員，部長請回。","接下來請葛如鈞召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":144,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-4","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","萬美玲","林沛祥","劉書彬","葛如鈞","林月琴","陳秀寳","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","羅廷瑋","范雲","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳思瑤","高金素梅","李坤城","蔡易餘","葉元之","林倩綺","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜"],"page_start":75,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00002"}}}