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00:00:43,537\n次長好第一個我想關注的議題是因為昨天有許多警消人員他們有私訊來反映這件事情那我相信工會法也會是未來我們勞動部或是在未還委員會講的議題之一比如說他們可不可以有罷工權他們可不可以組工會等等的\n\n3\n00:00:43,957 --> 00:01:11,968\n那您的部長呢之前在上政論節目的時候曾經說他是支持罷工權的為什麼我們警消委員會需要組工會呢其實他們是為了爭取他們的勞動權勞動條件太差想要更新設備等等等等但是昨天卻有這個民進黨黨團柯總召呢他這樣子的說法他居然滑坡到說如果警消組工會警消罷工的話呢那中共就會趁機入侵\n\n4\n00:01:14,351 --> 00:01:19,684\n擾台因為這個警消組工會會把整個政府都癱瘓掉請問您認同這樣子的說法嗎次長\n\n5\n00:01:23,137 --> 00:01:47,933\n那個科診總統的意見我們都尊重尊重那您要不要幫警消人員說幾句話他們如果想要爭取他們正確的勞權或是罷工權等等的其實是為他們自身的權益我們不要讓他們被抹紅好嗎當然當然勞動部當然是維護那個勞動者他們的勞動權益的所以警消人員並不會影響到中共犯台嗎對吧\n\n6\n00:01:50,814 --> 00:02:08,364\n這個我想委員柯總的意見我們都尊重但是我們還是認為勞動權益只要是勞動者包括警消人員我們勞動部都是要協助維護的好謝謝次長幫我們警消打火弟兄講話那再來我們希望請這個衛福部次長您先請坐好謝謝請呂次長\n\n7\n00:02:15,123 --> 00:02:32,558\n市長我們有一個前瞻計畫每次為了少子化都會來這邊編列特別預算那衛黃委員會也是很大方的因為我們也認為少子化就連中研院院士都已經講到這是我們國家非常重要的問題那提醒你這邊\n\n8\n00:02:33,999 --> 00:02:51,540\n您有一個少子化友善育兒空間建設建構0到2歲兒童社區公共托育計畫這個分工上呢您卻被行政院評比為紅燈是跟海委會並列喔是他們需要來積極輔導的是不是有這件事\n\n9\n00:02:53,781 --> 00:03:08,572\n嚴重落後進度嚴重落後報告委員感謝委員的關心那現在目前最新的那個進度我們現在目前已經解除了已經解除這個列管你看一下這個圖我們現在已經解上了藍色的線\n\n10\n00:03:09,632 --> 00:03:35,766\n藍色的線是你們預定執行的進度黃色的是你們經費達成率到9月10月11月行政院覺得哇這實在是跟你們預定的進度落差太大了所以當時找了台南市高雄市宜蘭縣地方政府來輔導你們是不是有這件事報告委員我們現在是這樣這個部分我們在推的時候我們地方政府那邊確實是有一些相關的延擋那來這邊先請這一個\n\n11\n00:03:38,811 --> 00:03:58,034\n報告委員是這個少子女化計畫相關經費都是補助到地方政府去設立相關的機構所以進度的部分都在地方來掌握所以是我們去看地方政府現在執行的狀況那你們現在的經費達成率大概是多少因為前瞻到八月就要結束了\n\n12\n00:04:02,219 --> 00:04:13,617\n我們去年的執行的去年的執行率核定率是都經費都有核定出去實際的執行率大概是在八成多就跟這個圖一樣嘛對不對83%\n\n13\n00:04:18,061 --> 00:04:35,677\n是完全照合訂的部分經費都有合給地方就是地方有申請的部分因為你們之前設定自己比如說公共托育32處托育資源一處社會福利中心一處兒少家庭福利館一處還有緊急安置一處請問這些你的目標什麼時候你可以全部達成\n\n14\n00:04:41,782 --> 00:05:02,554\n跟委員報告計畫上這邊所提到年度目標點數的部分都有照計畫有核定出去那但是地方政府在佈建因為他的有工程施工能在期程上面有少數的部分他的期程沒有完但是核定的數量是完全照年度目標都有核定出去甚至有超過所以32處你目前沒有辦法為我們預測什麼時候他們可以開張\n\n15\n00:05:09,588 --> 00:05:28,082\n個別的每一個點那在計畫申請的時候跟現在在管考的時候我們都有在追個別的進度那目前來看有少數的確實在當初地方政府原來規劃的時候也許是資料或者實際上的表那今年年底前可以達成嗎2024年年底前絕大多數應該是都可以\n\n16\n00:05:28,722 --> 00:05:54,101\n會拖少數會拖到明年啊我要簡單做一個說明我有幾個例子譬如像彰化彰化那個王縣長他也很積極在推動可是現在目前有問題他現在就是說他希望把我們核給他的那個整個原來托運中心親子館他還要結合當地的這一個那個像老人等等那些像我之前像竹塘那個案子這就是非常成功的案子那這裡面因為他變更設計等等這些那所以\n\n17\n00:05:54,841 --> 00:06:17,614\n像這些我們基本上因為我們核定出去都沒有問題像是各地方政府我們會來催那地方政府像我剛剛舉的彰化案例他們現在目前有一些他們希望做得更好integrated整合式的好那沒關係因為前瞻到八月嘛所以八月還有年底本席還會再來看你們的這個經費達成率跟執行進度到達哪裡好謝謝再下一位我們會再請勞動部好謝謝感謝委員謝謝\n\n18\n00:06:25,151 --> 00:06:51,584\n好次長有看到勞動部是鼓勵這些鼓勵我們友善托嬰托兒職場等等設施我們來分析你的成效因為只要這個職場有達到100人或是250人你們都會給予鼓勵比如說不入室或是自行設計托兒機構這當然是稍微困難一點還有特約機構給予津貼等等你歷年的成效你自己覺得有沒有進步\n\n19\n00:06:53,462 --> 00:06:57,778\n我們自己的資料我們來看是都有逐漸在進步成長\n\n20\n00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:14,023\n好那我給你看一下有多多多竹劍啊多牛部這是你們每年會抽查的這個每年抽查1000個企業喔然後算比例好你來看有設立托兒服務機構的從108年到112年是1.1到1.31.4在成長我們來用分母來看啦你就是每年其實就是增加一兩家而已這樣你也算是進步嗎\n\n21\n00:07:25,837 --> 00:07:46,374\n陳委員報所謂第一項世界單位設立托兒服務機構我們都有補助他新設立的托兒設施我們去年已經修改法令從300萬補助到最高500萬另外如果是要改善世界單位要改善托兒設施我們有補助大概最多50萬\n\n22\n00:07:46,994 --> 00:08:03,431\n那你看這個沒有提供托兒措施其實也沒有改善多少那我們來看一下你的執行率啦這邊呢其實我們也是對你們非常的好我們總共讓你們在救安基金編了多少4268萬元喔全部都\n\n23\n00:08:04,292 --> 00:08:09,295\n全部都讓你們做結果你們最後是執行率是七成最後只有花了三千萬就像你剛剛講的你剛剛已經把最高補助你這些傳單都發出去啦五百萬五十萬六十萬還有你花的這些沒宣費只有十九個讚我昨天還幫你點了第二十個讚\n\n24\n00:08:24,195 --> 00:08:53,357\n那個其實不是只有這一個平台我們其他平台也有的我懂但是你覺得你這樣子的執行率七成好嗎你是不是應該要更有創意的做法是我們請市長是感謝委員關心我們那個補助企業單位來設相關的托兒設施或措施在救安基金裡面我們用救保基金來支應那其中邊的4000多萬其實我還有補助縣市政府的人力的費用還有設置企業托兒網\n\n25\n00:08:54,238 --> 00:09:18,835\n的資訊的費用真正補助事業單位的將近兩千多萬我們全數我們幾乎百分之百全數用在補助事業單位來設拓設施或措施我這邊具體給你一個建議因為有一些願意設置的人會回饋我一些故事啦他說他們在設置的過程中可能因為這個拖音拖耳法規等等的\n\n26\n00:09:19,195 --> 00:09:36,942\n他們會需要協助需要輔導他可能空間不足但是他是很有意願做這件事情的我也希望你們勞動部可以去調查想要有意願做這件事情你們去輔導他不然他是從零開始摸索他願意投入這筆錢但最後他卻沒有辦法做到好嗎\n\n27\n00:09:38,283 --> 00:10:05,000\n委員我再補充說明一下我們非常感謝事業單位他願意願意願員工來提供一個友善育兒的職場所以我們是免費免費入場去輔導他因為就你所知道的他會有空地上的問題他有用地上的問題所以他而且他必須要在縣市政府不管是教育局或社會局要去立案所以這個部分我們是跨部會跨局處\n\n28\n00:10:06,061 --> 00:10:22,174\n看哪個台北市我們就找交易局或找那個經發局等等的我們去協助他用力解決用力的問題最後空間真的沒有辦法您是否也可以輔導他去跟其他的外界的做一些\n\n29\n00:10:24,657 --> 00:10:48,457\n我們當然就是他如果真的空間沒有辦法我們也協助他有些聯合托育的方式來協助我們這些協助全部是免費所以有任何意願的也歡迎委員可以告訴我們我們主動會去協助他是希望因為看到這個表是有點有點覺得太慢了啦所以我還是希望說未來看到這個新的表你們是比較有\n\n30\n00:10:49,318 --> 00:11:02,050\n大比例的突破因為記得在韓國最近他們做友善職場終於有稍微也逆轉了一下出生率下一位我們請國發會今天是處長國發會處長還有我們的教育部副署長以及我們的衛福部次長\n\n31\n00:11:15,506 --> 00:11:27,051\n好我們要看一下這是我們本院的同事黃建豪委員而且我們全院其實都為他開心他生了雙胞胎接著他就去申請了育兒津貼也順利的申請到了結果\n\n32\n00:11:31,753 --> 00:11:34,035\n不管是罷免團體或是公民團體或是側翼等等現在卻在網路上大規模的說我們刪了育兒津貼他還去領育兒津貼等等的這些我也想問一下\n\n33\n00:11:47,347 --> 00:11:54,739\n育兒津貼我們是在114年的少子化對策計畫下面的作業要點來進行補助請問我們先請問教育部副署長育兒津貼領不領得到學錢補助領不領得到114年\n\n34\n00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:25,815\n沒有問題因為我們目前已經相關核定第一期已經做了處理那不管是津貼或者是就學補助目前都依序在辦理好謝謝我們副署長幫我們黃建豪委員澄清育兒津貼就學津貼是一毛都未下那次長您是不是也同意為什麼不是次長關於黃建豪委員這個事情老實說我是一無所知但是\n\n35\n00:12:26,876 --> 00:12:32,720\n據我了解確實是有委員在衛航委員會提案並就是說凍結我們少子女化對策100萬這邊我已經幫你調出來了好下一張跟你說育兒今天我們是放在獎補助金裡面我已經幫你圈起來我已經幫你圈起來\n\n36\n00:12:46,129 --> 00:13:00,013\n上一頁這個獎補助金我們是一毛未三喔所以育兒津貼這些錢全國人民都領得到我也請主管機關不要再放任大家造謠甚至主管機關自己再造謠好次長你剛講到的\n\n37\n00:13:04,543 --> 00:13:18,820\n凍結什麼呢凍結少子女化裡面完全跟育兒津貼不相關裡面的案由全部都在寫托兒托育育兒監視器被不當的刪除等等這些原因總共凍10案\n\n38\n00:13:21,389 --> 00:13:48,502\n裡面不乏有我們林月琴委員的提案還有我們王振旭委員的提案所以請次長也在這邊澄清好嗎這些少子女化的凍結案跟月經貼無關請你說報告委員現在這樣就是說我們根據這個大院的這個紀錄我們是有審查凍結少子女化對策計畫是1010萬有喔我都幫你算出來我有印出來了所有的案有我也讀完了請問哪一筆跟月經貼有關\n\n39\n00:13:49,962 --> 00:14:12,427\n對但是委員現在目前你要推津貼當然你總是要業務總是要做那相關的那個業務推動啊那現在這個如果說有這個凍結的話我們現在這個部分我們還是必須有沒有影響這個有直接影響間接影響這個還是必須請你回憶一下去年3月啊大家就陸陸續續解凍因為你們的確是有做得不好有這麼多額虐剛剛才剛質詢欸剛剛林月琴委員才剛質詢你欸有人刪除監視器這些事情\n\n40\n00:14:17,868 --> 00:14:39,624\n全部都寫在暗游裡面也有民進黨委員寫的暗游不是委員現在是這樣啦我想這個大家我們都會共同來關心那你要不要趕快提解凍案啊對你是不是要趕快提解凍案而且這些是跟育兒津貼毫不相關的解凍案喔我們是為了讓你托育托嬰的環境更安全不要再讓我們看到凱凱案欸\n\n41\n00:14:41,346 --> 00:14:56,083\n這是藍、綠、白所有委員一起提出來的凍結案那我們也懇請大院我會全力來努力來進行相關推動市長你只需要回答我一句話114年大家是不是都可以領到育兒津貼你只要講這句話就好了\n\n42\n00:14:57,284 --> 00:15:08,213\n都可以領到如果說如果說我們的財政收支劃分如果是現在目前這樣的情況的話那抱歉我在這邊我無法我無法我無法承諾財政收支劃分你先不要牽扯到我在講114年我剛是在講114年我剛是在講114年來那個我們請這個\n\n43\n00:15:20,302 --> 00:15:24,326\n我們來請國發會的代表我們是不是有要再編列115年的少子化對策計畫是不是還有跟委員報告這個是在行政院層級這邊做討論所以你們有再因應嗎會繼續再編少子化對策計畫是嗎\n\n44\n00:15:41,956 --> 00:16:02,271\n這個不是國發會這邊也不是國發會這邊推好那我們就請次長次長您是可以代替行政院做回答是不是因為現在財化法行政院連施行日期都還沒講出來你就冒然的說出財化法會影響育兒及租屋補貼你為什麼要這樣子恐嚇人民呢報告委員人無遠慮必有盡憂\n\n45\n00:16:05,014 --> 00:16:28,382\n我做行政官員我就必須要有一個負責任的要把任何可能性要把它考慮在內包括對於人民的這一個權利我真的都是必須要做最可能的這一個打算嘛所以你的意思是說財化法當初賴清德總統當立委的時候也提了版本蕭美琴也有版本曾立軍也有版本還有現在許多民進黨委員也有版本當時人無眼力必有盡憂嗎當時他沒有提喔\n\n46\n00:16:30,923 --> 00:16:36,066\n你連施行日期都還不知道你就開始散放這樣子的消息報告委員這個不是什麼日子就是說有很多情況我們必須要做\n\n47\n00:16:52,213 --> 00:17:01,401\n所以說做一個負責任的行政官員你是不是應該要好好的跟所有的地方政府溝通來發放育兒津貼這件事情還有你是不是要好好的跟政府官員溝通我們的小子化對策計畫115年既然我們114年之前做的成效都不錯是不是也應該要繼續啊\n\n48\n00:17:19,696 --> 00:17:22,281\n不是嗎這個才是負責任的表現啊也懇請委員和大院能夠支持我們這項預算\n\n49\n00:17:29,184 --> 00:17:55,987\n什麼預算我們已經支持我們全部都支持啊我們凍結的案由我現在每一項唸給你聽都是剛剛林月琴委員告訴你的事情喔都是最近社會矚目案件所發生的事情喔我們只是希望你做得更好而已剛才你也有看到我們這個勞動部做育兒場所他的執行率是七成所以為什麼我們要去監督為什麼要去凍結給你了四千萬你執行三千萬\n\n50\n00:17:57,168 --> 00:18:14,006\n然後呢開演唱會大手大腳花了這麼多錢這樣不用監督嗎不需要嗎所以為什麼我們要去管這些托育場所的監視器畫面等等這也是你們應該要做的啊包委所以我們現在目前已經已經提出托育服務法\n\n51\n00:18:14,747 --> 00:18:36,704\n然後呢我們現在目前的兒少權益法我剛都有聽你剛都已經講過了所以現在目前這個部分我叫委員會非常關心我們送托人員所以我也希望你們可以盡快把解凍案送進來不要再牽托有的沒的了那也希望在這邊非常謝謝副署長教育部副署長很認真的跟我們澄清說大家還是可以領到托兒津貼還有學錢補助謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9626\t13531\t委員 各位官員 主席 大家好首先想要請這個勞動部的次長理事長是 委員好\n24089\t43537\t次長好第一個我想關注的議題是因為昨天有許多警消人員他們有私訊來反映這件事情那我相信工會法也會是未來我們勞動部或是在未還委員會講的議題之一比如說他們可不可以有罷工權他們可不可以組工會等等的\n43957\t71968\t那您的部長呢之前在上政論節目的時候曾經說他是支持罷工權的為什麼我們警消委員會需要組工會呢其實他們是為了爭取他們的勞動權勞動條件太差想要更新設備等等等等但是昨天卻有這個民進黨黨團柯總召呢他這樣子的說法他居然滑坡到說如果警消組工會警消罷工的話呢那中共就會趁機入侵\n74351\t79684\t擾台因為這個警消組工會會把整個政府都癱瘓掉請問您認同這樣子的說法嗎 次長\n83137\t107933\t那個科診總統的意見我們都尊重尊重那您要不要幫警消人員說幾句話他們如果想要爭取他們正確的勞權或是罷工權等等的其實是為他們自身的權益我們不要讓他們被抹紅好嗎當然當然勞動部當然是維護那個勞動者他們的勞動權益的所以警消人員並不會影響到中共犯台嗎對吧\n110814\t128364\t這個我想委員柯總的意見我們都尊重但是我們還是認為勞動權益只要是勞動者包括警消人員我們勞動部都是要協助維護的好 謝謝次長幫我們警消打火弟兄講話那再來我們希望請這個衛福部次長您先請坐好 謝謝請呂次長\n135123\t152558\t市長我們有一個前瞻計畫每次為了少子化都會來這邊編列特別預算那衛黃委員會也是很大方的因為我們也認為少子化就連中研院院士都已經講到這是我們國家非常重要的問題那提醒你這邊\n153999\t171540\t您有一個少子化友善育兒空間建設建構0到2歲兒童社區公共托育計畫這個分工上呢您卻被行政院評比為紅燈是跟海委會並列喔是他們需要來積極輔導的是不是有這件事\n173781\t188572\t嚴重落後 進度嚴重落後報告委員 感謝委員的關心 那現在目前最新的那個進度我們現在目前已經解除了 已經解除這個列管 你看一下這個圖我們現在已經解上了 藍色的線\n189632\t215766\t藍色的線是你們預定執行的進度黃色的是你們經費達成率到9月10月11月行政院覺得哇這實在是跟你們預定的進度落差太大了所以當時找了台南市高雄市宜蘭縣地方政府來輔導你們是不是有這件事報告委員我們現在是這樣這個部分我們在推的時候我們地方政府那邊確實是有一些相關的延擋那來這邊先請這一個\n218811\t238034\t報告委員是這個少子女化計畫相關經費都是補助到地方政府去設立相關的機構所以進度的部分都在地方來掌握所以是我們去看地方政府現在執行的狀況那你們現在的經費達成率大概是多少因為前瞻到八月就要結束了\n242219\t253617\t我們去年的執行的去年的執行率核定率是都經費都有核定出去實際的執行率大概是在八成多就跟這個圖一樣嘛 對不對83%\n258061\t275677\t是完全照合訂的部分 經費都有合給地方 就是地方有申請的部分因為你們之前設定自己 比如說公共托育32處托育資源一處 社會福利中心一處兒少家庭福利館一處 還有緊急安置一處請問這些你的目標什麼時候你可以全部達成\n281782\t302554\t跟委員報告計畫上這邊所提到年度目標點數的部分都有照計畫有核定出去那但是地方政府在佈建因為他的有工程施工能在期程上面有少數的部分他的期程沒有完但是核定的數量是完全照年度目標都有核定出去甚至有超過所以32處你目前沒有辦法為我們預測什麼時候他們可以開張\n309588\t328082\t個別的每一個點那在計畫申請的時候跟現在在管考的時候我們都有在追個別的進度那目前來看有少數的確實在當初地方政府原來規劃的時候也許是資料或者實際上的表那今年年底前可以達成嗎2024年年底前絕大多數應該是都可以\n328722\t354101\t會拖 少數會拖到明年啊我要簡單做一個說明我有幾個例子 譬如像彰化彰化那個王縣長他也很積極在推動可是現在目前有問題 他現在就是說他希望把我們核給他的那個整個原來托運中心 親子館他還要結合當地的這一個那個像老人等等那些像我之前像竹塘那個案子 這就是非常成功的案子那這裡面 因為他變更設計等等這些 那所以\n354841\t377614\t像這些我們基本上因為我們核定出去都沒有問題像是各地方政府我們會來催那地方政府像我剛剛舉的彰化案例他們現在目前有一些他們希望做得更好integrated 整合式的好 那沒關係因為前瞻到八月嘛所以八月還有年底本席還會再來看你們的這個經費達成率跟執行進度到達哪裡好 謝謝再下一位我們會再請勞動部好 謝謝感謝委員 謝謝\n385151\t411584\t好 次長有看到勞動部是鼓勵這些鼓勵我們友善托嬰托兒職場等等設施我們來分析你的成效因為只要這個職場有達到100人或是250人你們都會給予鼓勵比如說不入室或是自行設計托兒機構這當然是稍微困難一點還有特約機構給予津貼等等你歷年的成效你自己覺得有沒有進步\n413462\t417778\t我們自己的資料我們來看是都有逐漸在進步成長\n418800\t434023\t好那我給你看一下有多多多竹劍啊多牛部這是你們每年會抽查的這個每年抽查1000個企業喔然後算比例好你來看有設立托兒服務機構的從108年到112年是1.1到1.3 1.4在成長我們來用分母來看啦你就是每年其實就是增加一兩家而已這樣你也算是進步嗎\n445837\t466374\t陳委員報所謂第一項世界單位設立托兒服務機構我們都有補助他新設立的托兒設施我們去年已經修改法令從300萬補助到最高500萬另外如果是要改善世界單位要改善托兒設施我們有補助大概最多50萬\n466994\t483431\t那你看這個沒有提供托兒措施其實也沒有改善多少那我們來看一下你的執行率啦這邊呢其實我們也是對你們非常的好我們總共讓你們在救安基金編了多少4268萬元喔全部都\n484292\t489295\t全部都讓你們做 結果你們最後是執行率是七成 最後只有花了三千萬就像你剛剛講的 你剛剛已經把最高補助 你這些傳單都發出去啦五百萬 五十萬 六十萬 還有你花的這些沒宣費只有十九個讚 我昨天還幫你點了第二十個讚\n504195\t533357\t那個其實不是只有這一個平台我們其他平台也有的我懂但是你覺得你這樣子的執行率七成好嗎你是不是應該要更有創意的做法是我們請市長是感謝委員關心我們那個補助企業單位來設相關的托兒設施或措施在救安基金裡面我們用救保基金來支應那其中邊的4000多萬其實我還有補助縣市政府的人力的費用還有設置企業托兒網\n534238\t558835\t的資訊的費用真正補助事業單位的將近兩千多萬我們全數我們幾乎百分之百全數用在補助事業單位來設拓設施或措施我這邊具體給你一個建議因為有一些願意設置的人會回饋我一些故事啦他說他們在設置的過程中可能因為這個拖音拖耳法規等等的\n559195\t576942\t他們會需要協助需要輔導他可能空間不足但是他是很有意願做這件事情的我也希望你們勞動部可以去調查想要有意願做這件事情你們去輔導他不然他是從零開始摸索他願意投入這筆錢但最後他卻沒有辦法做到好嗎\n578283\t605000\t委員我再補充說明一下我們非常感謝事業單位他願意願意願員工來提供一個友善育兒的職場所以我們是免費免費入場去輔導他因為就你所知道的他會有空地上的問題他有用地上的問題所以他而且他必須要在縣市政府不管是教育局或社會局要去立案所以這個部分我們是跨部會跨局處\n606061\t622174\t看哪個台北市我們就找交易局或找那個經發局等等的我們去協助他用力解決用力的問題最後空間真的沒有辦法您是否也可以輔導他去跟其他的外界的做一些\n624657\t648457\t我們當然就是他如果真的空間沒有辦法我們也協助他有些聯合托育的方式來協助我們這些協助全部是免費所以有任何意願的也歡迎委員可以告訴我們我們主動會去協助他是希望因為看到這個表是有點有點覺得太慢了啦所以我還是希望說未來看到這個新的表你們是比較有\n649318\t662050\t大比例的突破因為記得在韓國最近他們做友善職場終於有稍微也逆轉了一下出生率下一位我們請國發會今天是處長國發會處長還有我們的教育部副署長以及我們的衛福部次長\n675506\t687051\t好我們要看一下這是我們本院的同事黃建豪委員而且我們全院其實都為他開心他生了雙胞胎接著他就去申請了育兒津貼也順利的申請到了結果\n691753\t694035\t不管是罷免團體或是公民團體或是側翼等等現在卻在網路上大規模的說我們刪了育兒津貼他還去領育兒津貼等等的這些我也想問一下\n707347\t714739\t育兒津貼我們是在114年的少子化對策計畫下面的作業要點來進行補助請問我們先請問教育部副署長育兒津貼領不領得到學錢補助領不領得到114年\n722080\t745815\t沒有問題因為我們目前已經相關核定第一期已經做了處理那不管是津貼或者是就學補助目前都依序在辦理好謝謝我們副署長幫我們黃建豪委員澄清育兒津貼就學津貼是一毛都未下那次長您是不是也同意為什麼不是次長關於黃建豪委員這個事情老實說我是一無所知但是\n746876\t752720\t據我了解確實是有委員在衛航委員會提案並就是說凍結我們少子女化對策100萬這邊我已經幫你調出來了好下一張跟你說育兒今天我們是放在獎補助金裡面我已經幫你圈起來我已經幫你圈起來\n766129\t780013\t上一頁這個獎補助金我們是一毛未三喔所以育兒津貼這些錢全國人民都領得到我也請主管機關不要再放任大家造謠甚至主管機關自己再造謠好 次長你剛講到的\n784543\t798820\t凍結什麼呢凍結少子女化裡面完全跟育兒津貼不相關裡面的案由全部都在寫托兒 托育 育兒監視器被不當的刪除等等這些原因總共凍10案\n801389\t828502\t裡面不乏有我們林月琴委員的提案還有我們王振旭委員的提案所以請次長也在這邊澄清好嗎這些少子女化的凍結案跟月經貼無關請你說報告委員現在這樣就是說我們根據這個大院的這個紀錄我們是有審查凍結少子女化對策計畫是1010萬有喔我都幫你算出來我有印出來了所有的案有我也讀完了請問哪一筆跟月經貼有關\n829962\t852427\t對 但是委員現在目前你要推津貼當然你總是要業務總是要做那相關的那個業務推動啊那現在這個如果說有這個凍結的話我們現在這個部分我們還是必須有沒有影響這個有直接影響 間接影響這個還是必須請你回憶一下去年3月啊大家就陸陸續續解凍因為你們的確是有做得不好有這麼多額虐剛剛才剛質詢欸剛剛林月琴委員才剛質詢你欸有人刪除監視器這些事情\n857868\t879624\t全部都寫在暗游裡面 也有民進黨委員寫的暗游不是 委員 現在是這樣啦我想這個大家我們都會共同來關心那你要不要趕快提解凍案啊對 你是不是要趕快提解凍案而且這些是跟育兒津貼毫不相關的解凍案喔我們是為了讓你托育 托嬰的環境更安全不要再讓我們看到凱凱案欸\n881346\t896083\t這是藍、綠、白所有委員一起提出來的凍結案那我們也懇請大院我會全力來努力來進行相關推動市長你只需要回答我一句話114年大家是不是都可以領到育兒津貼你只要講這句話就好了\n897284\t908213\t都可以領到如果說如果說我們的財政收支劃分如果是現在目前這樣的情況的話那抱歉我在這邊我無法我無法我無法承諾財政收支劃分你先不要牽扯到我在講114年我剛是在講114年我剛是在講114年來那個我們請這個\n920302\t924326\t我們來請國發會的代表我們是不是有要再編列115年的少子化對策計畫 是不是還有跟委員報告 這個是在行政院層級這邊做討論所以你們有再因應嗎會繼續再編少子化對策計畫是嗎\n941956\t962271\t這個不是國發會這邊也不是國發會這邊推好那我們就請次長次長您是可以代替行政院做回答是不是因為現在財化法行政院連施行日期都還沒講出來你就冒然的說出財化法會影響育兒及租屋補貼你為什麼要這樣子恐嚇人民呢報告委員人無遠慮必有盡憂\n965014\t988382\t我做行政官員我就必須要有一個負責任的要把任何可能性要把它考慮在內包括對於人民的這一個權利我真的都是必須要做最可能的這一個打算嘛所以你的意思是說財化法當初賴清德總統當立委的時候也提了版本蕭美琴也有版本曾立軍也有版本還有現在許多民進黨委員也有版本當時人無眼力必有盡憂嗎當時他沒有提喔\n990923\t996066\t你連施行日期都還不知道你就開始散放這樣子的消息報告委員這個不是什麼日子就是說有很多情況我們必須要做\n1012213\t1021401\t所以說做一個負責任的行政官員你是不是應該要好好的跟所有的地方政府溝通來發放育兒津貼這件事情還有你是不是要好好的跟政府官員溝通我們的小子化對策計畫115年 既然我們114年之前做的成效都不錯是不是也應該要繼續啊\n1039696\t1042281\t不是嗎這個才是負責任的表現啊也懇請委員和大院能夠支持我們這項預算\n1049184\t1075987\t什麼預算我們已經支持我們全部都支持啊我們凍結的案由我現在每一項唸給你聽都是剛剛林月琴委員告訴你的事情喔都是最近社會矚目案件所發生的事情喔我們只是希望你做得更好而已剛才你也有看到我們這個勞動部做育兒場所他的執行率是七成所以為什麼我們要去監督為什麼要去凍結給你了四千萬你執行三千萬\n1077168\t1094006\t然後呢開演唱會大手大腳花了這麼多錢這樣不用監督嗎不需要嗎所以為什麼我們要去管這些托育場所的監視器畫面等等這也是你們應該要做的啊包委所以我們現在目前已經已經提出托育服務法\n1094747\t1116704\t然後呢我們現在目前的兒少權益法我剛都有聽你剛都已經講過了所以現在目前這個部分我叫委員會非常關心我們送托人員所以我也希望你們可以盡快把解凍案送進來不要再牽托有的沒的了那也希望在這邊非常謝謝副署長教育部副署長很認真的跟我們澄清說大家還是可以領到托兒津貼還有學錢補助謝謝\n","txt":"委員 各位官員 主席 大家好首先想要請這個勞動部的次長理事長是 委員好\n次長好第一個我想關注的議題是因為昨天有許多警消人員他們有私訊來反映這件事情那我相信工會法也會是未來我們勞動部或是在未還委員會講的議題之一比如說他們可不可以有罷工權他們可不可以組工會等等的\n那您的部長呢之前在上政論節目的時候曾經說他是支持罷工權的為什麼我們警消委員會需要組工會呢其實他們是為了爭取他們的勞動權勞動條件太差想要更新設備等等等等但是昨天卻有這個民進黨黨團柯總召呢他這樣子的說法他居然滑坡到說如果警消組工會警消罷工的話呢那中共就會趁機入侵\n擾台因為這個警消組工會會把整個政府都癱瘓掉請問您認同這樣子的說法嗎 次長\n那個科診總統的意見我們都尊重尊重那您要不要幫警消人員說幾句話他們如果想要爭取他們正確的勞權或是罷工權等等的其實是為他們自身的權益我們不要讓他們被抹紅好嗎當然當然勞動部當然是維護那個勞動者他們的勞動權益的所以警消人員並不會影響到中共犯台嗎對吧\n這個我想委員柯總的意見我們都尊重但是我們還是認為勞動權益只要是勞動者包括警消人員我們勞動部都是要協助維護的好 謝謝次長幫我們警消打火弟兄講話那再來我們希望請這個衛福部次長您先請坐好 謝謝請呂次長\n市長我們有一個前瞻計畫每次為了少子化都會來這邊編列特別預算那衛黃委員會也是很大方的因為我們也認為少子化就連中研院院士都已經講到這是我們國家非常重要的問題那提醒你這邊\n您有一個少子化友善育兒空間建設建構0到2歲兒童社區公共托育計畫這個分工上呢您卻被行政院評比為紅燈是跟海委會並列喔是他們需要來積極輔導的是不是有這件事\n嚴重落後 進度嚴重落後報告委員 感謝委員的關心 那現在目前最新的那個進度我們現在目前已經解除了 已經解除這個列管 你看一下這個圖我們現在已經解上了 藍色的線\n藍色的線是你們預定執行的進度黃色的是你們經費達成率到9月10月11月行政院覺得哇這實在是跟你們預定的進度落差太大了所以當時找了台南市高雄市宜蘭縣地方政府來輔導你們是不是有這件事報告委員我們現在是這樣這個部分我們在推的時候我們地方政府那邊確實是有一些相關的延擋那來這邊先請這一個\n報告委員是這個少子女化計畫相關經費都是補助到地方政府去設立相關的機構所以進度的部分都在地方來掌握所以是我們去看地方政府現在執行的狀況那你們現在的經費達成率大概是多少因為前瞻到八月就要結束了\n我們去年的執行的去年的執行率核定率是都經費都有核定出去實際的執行率大概是在八成多就跟這個圖一樣嘛 對不對83%\n是完全照合訂的部分 經費都有合給地方 就是地方有申請的部分因為你們之前設定自己 比如說公共托育32處托育資源一處 社會福利中心一處兒少家庭福利館一處 還有緊急安置一處請問這些你的目標什麼時候你可以全部達成\n跟委員報告計畫上這邊所提到年度目標點數的部分都有照計畫有核定出去那但是地方政府在佈建因為他的有工程施工能在期程上面有少數的部分他的期程沒有完但是核定的數量是完全照年度目標都有核定出去甚至有超過所以32處你目前沒有辦法為我們預測什麼時候他們可以開張\n個別的每一個點那在計畫申請的時候跟現在在管考的時候我們都有在追個別的進度那目前來看有少數的確實在當初地方政府原來規劃的時候也許是資料或者實際上的表那今年年底前可以達成嗎2024年年底前絕大多數應該是都可以\n會拖 少數會拖到明年啊我要簡單做一個說明我有幾個例子 譬如像彰化彰化那個王縣長他也很積極在推動可是現在目前有問題 他現在就是說他希望把我們核給他的那個整個原來托運中心 親子館他還要結合當地的這一個那個像老人等等那些像我之前像竹塘那個案子 這就是非常成功的案子那這裡面 因為他變更設計等等這些 那所以\n像這些我們基本上因為我們核定出去都沒有問題像是各地方政府我們會來催那地方政府像我剛剛舉的彰化案例他們現在目前有一些他們希望做得更好integrated 整合式的好 那沒關係因為前瞻到八月嘛所以八月還有年底本席還會再來看你們的這個經費達成率跟執行進度到達哪裡好 謝謝再下一位我們會再請勞動部好 謝謝感謝委員 謝謝\n好 次長有看到勞動部是鼓勵這些鼓勵我們友善托嬰托兒職場等等設施我們來分析你的成效因為只要這個職場有達到100人或是250人你們都會給予鼓勵比如說不入室或是自行設計托兒機構這當然是稍微困難一點還有特約機構給予津貼等等你歷年的成效你自己覺得有沒有進步\n我們自己的資料我們來看是都有逐漸在進步成長\n好那我給你看一下有多多多竹劍啊多牛部這是你們每年會抽查的這個每年抽查1000個企業喔然後算比例好你來看有設立托兒服務機構的從108年到112年是1.1到1.3 1.4在成長我們來用分母來看啦你就是每年其實就是增加一兩家而已這樣你也算是進步嗎\n陳委員報所謂第一項世界單位設立托兒服務機構我們都有補助他新設立的托兒設施我們去年已經修改法令從300萬補助到最高500萬另外如果是要改善世界單位要改善托兒設施我們有補助大概最多50萬\n那你看這個沒有提供托兒措施其實也沒有改善多少那我們來看一下你的執行率啦這邊呢其實我們也是對你們非常的好我們總共讓你們在救安基金編了多少4268萬元喔全部都\n全部都讓你們做 結果你們最後是執行率是七成 最後只有花了三千萬就像你剛剛講的 你剛剛已經把最高補助 你這些傳單都發出去啦五百萬 五十萬 六十萬 還有你花的這些沒宣費只有十九個讚 我昨天還幫你點了第二十個讚\n那個其實不是只有這一個平台我們其他平台也有的我懂但是你覺得你這樣子的執行率七成好嗎你是不是應該要更有創意的做法是我們請市長是感謝委員關心我們那個補助企業單位來設相關的托兒設施或措施在救安基金裡面我們用救保基金來支應那其中邊的4000多萬其實我還有補助縣市政府的人力的費用還有設置企業托兒網\n的資訊的費用真正補助事業單位的將近兩千多萬我們全數我們幾乎百分之百全數用在補助事業單位來設拓設施或措施我這邊具體給你一個建議因為有一些願意設置的人會回饋我一些故事啦他說他們在設置的過程中可能因為這個拖音拖耳法規等等的\n他們會需要協助需要輔導他可能空間不足但是他是很有意願做這件事情的我也希望你們勞動部可以去調查想要有意願做這件事情你們去輔導他不然他是從零開始摸索他願意投入這筆錢但最後他卻沒有辦法做到好嗎\n委員我再補充說明一下我們非常感謝事業單位他願意願意願員工來提供一個友善育兒的職場所以我們是免費免費入場去輔導他因為就你所知道的他會有空地上的問題他有用地上的問題所以他而且他必須要在縣市政府不管是教育局或社會局要去立案所以這個部分我們是跨部會跨局處\n看哪個台北市我們就找交易局或找那個經發局等等的我們去協助他用力解決用力的問題最後空間真的沒有辦法您是否也可以輔導他去跟其他的外界的做一些\n我們當然就是他如果真的空間沒有辦法我們也協助他有些聯合托育的方式來協助我們這些協助全部是免費所以有任何意願的也歡迎委員可以告訴我們我們主動會去協助他是希望因為看到這個表是有點有點覺得太慢了啦所以我還是希望說未來看到這個新的表你們是比較有\n大比例的突破因為記得在韓國最近他們做友善職場終於有稍微也逆轉了一下出生率下一位我們請國發會今天是處長國發會處長還有我們的教育部副署長以及我們的衛福部次長\n好我們要看一下這是我們本院的同事黃建豪委員而且我們全院其實都為他開心他生了雙胞胎接著他就去申請了育兒津貼也順利的申請到了結果\n不管是罷免團體或是公民團體或是側翼等等現在卻在網路上大規模的說我們刪了育兒津貼他還去領育兒津貼等等的這些我也想問一下\n育兒津貼我們是在114年的少子化對策計畫下面的作業要點來進行補助請問我們先請問教育部副署長育兒津貼領不領得到學錢補助領不領得到114年\n沒有問題因為我們目前已經相關核定第一期已經做了處理那不管是津貼或者是就學補助目前都依序在辦理好謝謝我們副署長幫我們黃建豪委員澄清育兒津貼就學津貼是一毛都未下那次長您是不是也同意為什麼不是次長關於黃建豪委員這個事情老實說我是一無所知但是\n據我了解確實是有委員在衛航委員會提案並就是說凍結我們少子女化對策100萬這邊我已經幫你調出來了好下一張跟你說育兒今天我們是放在獎補助金裡面我已經幫你圈起來我已經幫你圈起來\n上一頁這個獎補助金我們是一毛未三喔所以育兒津貼這些錢全國人民都領得到我也請主管機關不要再放任大家造謠甚至主管機關自己再造謠好 次長你剛講到的\n凍結什麼呢凍結少子女化裡面完全跟育兒津貼不相關裡面的案由全部都在寫托兒 托育 育兒監視器被不當的刪除等等這些原因總共凍10案\n裡面不乏有我們林月琴委員的提案還有我們王振旭委員的提案所以請次長也在這邊澄清好嗎這些少子女化的凍結案跟月經貼無關請你說報告委員現在這樣就是說我們根據這個大院的這個紀錄我們是有審查凍結少子女化對策計畫是1010萬有喔我都幫你算出來我有印出來了所有的案有我也讀完了請問哪一筆跟月經貼有關\n對 但是委員現在目前你要推津貼當然你總是要業務總是要做那相關的那個業務推動啊那現在這個如果說有這個凍結的話我們現在這個部分我們還是必須有沒有影響這個有直接影響 間接影響這個還是必須請你回憶一下去年3月啊大家就陸陸續續解凍因為你們的確是有做得不好有這麼多額虐剛剛才剛質詢欸剛剛林月琴委員才剛質詢你欸有人刪除監視器這些事情\n全部都寫在暗游裡面 也有民進黨委員寫的暗游不是 委員 現在是這樣啦我想這個大家我們都會共同來關心那你要不要趕快提解凍案啊對 你是不是要趕快提解凍案而且這些是跟育兒津貼毫不相關的解凍案喔我們是為了讓你托育 托嬰的環境更安全不要再讓我們看到凱凱案欸\n這是藍、綠、白所有委員一起提出來的凍結案那我們也懇請大院我會全力來努力來進行相關推動市長你只需要回答我一句話114年大家是不是都可以領到育兒津貼你只要講這句話就好了\n都可以領到如果說如果說我們的財政收支劃分如果是現在目前這樣的情況的話那抱歉我在這邊我無法我無法我無法承諾財政收支劃分你先不要牽扯到我在講114年我剛是在講114年我剛是在講114年來那個我們請這個\n我們來請國發會的代表我們是不是有要再編列115年的少子化對策計畫 是不是還有跟委員報告 這個是在行政院層級這邊做討論所以你們有再因應嗎會繼續再編少子化對策計畫是嗎\n這個不是國發會這邊也不是國發會這邊推好那我們就請次長次長您是可以代替行政院做回答是不是因為現在財化法行政院連施行日期都還沒講出來你就冒然的說出財化法會影響育兒及租屋補貼你為什麼要這樣子恐嚇人民呢報告委員人無遠慮必有盡憂\n我做行政官員我就必須要有一個負責任的要把任何可能性要把它考慮在內包括對於人民的這一個權利我真的都是必須要做最可能的這一個打算嘛所以你的意思是說財化法當初賴清德總統當立委的時候也提了版本蕭美琴也有版本曾立軍也有版本還有現在許多民進黨委員也有版本當時人無眼力必有盡憂嗎當時他沒有提喔\n你連施行日期都還不知道你就開始散放這樣子的消息報告委員這個不是什麼日子就是說有很多情況我們必須要做\n所以說做一個負責任的行政官員你是不是應該要好好的跟所有的地方政府溝通來發放育兒津貼這件事情還有你是不是要好好的跟政府官員溝通我們的小子化對策計畫115年 既然我們114年之前做的成效都不錯是不是也應該要繼續啊\n不是嗎這個才是負責任的表現啊也懇請委員和大院能夠支持我們這項預算\n什麼預算我們已經支持我們全部都支持啊我們凍結的案由我現在每一項唸給你聽都是剛剛林月琴委員告訴你的事情喔都是最近社會矚目案件所發生的事情喔我們只是希望你做得更好而已剛才你也有看到我們這個勞動部做育兒場所他的執行率是七成所以為什麼我們要去監督為什麼要去凍結給你了四千萬你執行三千萬\n然後呢開演唱會大手大腳花了這麼多錢這樣不用監督嗎不需要嗎所以為什麼我們要去管這些托育場所的監視器畫面等等這也是你們應該要做的啊包委所以我們現在目前已經已經提出托育服務法\n然後呢我們現在目前的兒少權益法我剛都有聽你剛都已經講過了所以現在目前這個部分我叫委員會非常關心我們送托人員所以我也希望你們可以盡快把解凍案送進來不要再牽托有的沒的了那也希望在這邊非常謝謝副署長教育部副署長很認真的跟我們澄清說大家還是可以領到托兒津貼還有學錢補助謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.626 --> 00:13.531\n委員各位官員主席大家好首先想要請這個勞動部的次長理事長是委員好\n\n00:24.089 --> 00:43.537\n次長好第一個我想關注的議題是因為昨天有許多警消人員他們有私訊來反映這件事情那我相信工會法也會是未來我們勞動部或是在未還委員會講的議題之一比如說他們可不可以有罷工權他們可不可以組工會等等的\n\n00:43.957 --> 01:11.968\n那您的部長呢之前在上政論節目的時候曾經說他是支持罷工權的為什麼我們警消委員會需要組工會呢其實他們是為了爭取他們的勞動權勞動條件太差想要更新設備等等等等但是昨天卻有這個民進黨黨團柯總召呢他這樣子的說法他居然滑坡到說如果警消組工會警消罷工的話呢那中共就會趁機入侵\n\n01:14.351 --> 01:19.684\n擾台因為這個警消組工會會把整個政府都癱瘓掉請問您認同這樣子的說法嗎次長\n\n01:23.137 --> 01:47.933\n那個科診總統的意見我們都尊重尊重那您要不要幫警消人員說幾句話他們如果想要爭取他們正確的勞權或是罷工權等等的其實是為他們自身的權益我們不要讓他們被抹紅好嗎當然當然勞動部當然是維護那個勞動者他們的勞動權益的所以警消人員並不會影響到中共犯台嗎對吧\n\n01:50.814 --> 02:08.364\n這個我想委員柯總的意見我們都尊重但是我們還是認為勞動權益只要是勞動者包括警消人員我們勞動部都是要協助維護的好謝謝次長幫我們警消打火弟兄講話那再來我們希望請這個衛福部次長您先請坐好謝謝請呂次長\n\n02:15.123 --> 02:32.558\n市長我們有一個前瞻計畫每次為了少子化都會來這邊編列特別預算那衛黃委員會也是很大方的因為我們也認為少子化就連中研院院士都已經講到這是我們國家非常重要的問題那提醒你這邊\n\n02:33.999 --> 02:51.540\n您有一個少子化友善育兒空間建設建構0到2歲兒童社區公共托育計畫這個分工上呢您卻被行政院評比為紅燈是跟海委會並列喔是他們需要來積極輔導的是不是有這件事\n\n02:53.781 --> 03:08.572\n嚴重落後進度嚴重落後報告委員感謝委員的關心那現在目前最新的那個進度我們現在目前已經解除了已經解除這個列管你看一下這個圖我們現在已經解上了藍色的線\n\n03:09.632 --> 03:35.766\n藍色的線是你們預定執行的進度黃色的是你們經費達成率到9月10月11月行政院覺得哇這實在是跟你們預定的進度落差太大了所以當時找了台南市高雄市宜蘭縣地方政府來輔導你們是不是有這件事報告委員我們現在是這樣這個部分我們在推的時候我們地方政府那邊確實是有一些相關的延擋那來這邊先請這一個\n\n03:38.811 --> 03:58.034\n報告委員是這個少子女化計畫相關經費都是補助到地方政府去設立相關的機構所以進度的部分都在地方來掌握所以是我們去看地方政府現在執行的狀況那你們現在的經費達成率大概是多少因為前瞻到八月就要結束了\n\n04:02.219 --> 04:13.617\n我們去年的執行的去年的執行率核定率是都經費都有核定出去實際的執行率大概是在八成多就跟這個圖一樣嘛對不對83%\n\n04:18.061 --> 04:35.677\n是完全照合訂的部分經費都有合給地方就是地方有申請的部分因為你們之前設定自己比如說公共托育32處托育資源一處社會福利中心一處兒少家庭福利館一處還有緊急安置一處請問這些你的目標什麼時候你可以全部達成\n\n04:41.782 --> 05:02.554\n跟委員報告計畫上這邊所提到年度目標點數的部分都有照計畫有核定出去那但是地方政府在佈建因為他的有工程施工能在期程上面有少數的部分他的期程沒有完但是核定的數量是完全照年度目標都有核定出去甚至有超過所以32處你目前沒有辦法為我們預測什麼時候他們可以開張\n\n05:09.588 --> 05:28.082\n個別的每一個點那在計畫申請的時候跟現在在管考的時候我們都有在追個別的進度那目前來看有少數的確實在當初地方政府原來規劃的時候也許是資料或者實際上的表那今年年底前可以達成嗎2024年年底前絕大多數應該是都可以\n\n05:28.722 --> 05:54.101\n會拖少數會拖到明年啊我要簡單做一個說明我有幾個例子譬如像彰化彰化那個王縣長他也很積極在推動可是現在目前有問題他現在就是說他希望把我們核給他的那個整個原來托運中心親子館他還要結合當地的這一個那個像老人等等那些像我之前像竹塘那個案子這就是非常成功的案子那這裡面因為他變更設計等等這些那所以\n\n05:54.841 --> 06:17.614\n像這些我們基本上因為我們核定出去都沒有問題像是各地方政府我們會來催那地方政府像我剛剛舉的彰化案例他們現在目前有一些他們希望做得更好integrated整合式的好那沒關係因為前瞻到八月嘛所以八月還有年底本席還會再來看你們的這個經費達成率跟執行進度到達哪裡好謝謝再下一位我們會再請勞動部好謝謝感謝委員謝謝\n\n06:25.151 --> 06:51.584\n好次長有看到勞動部是鼓勵這些鼓勵我們友善托嬰托兒職場等等設施我們來分析你的成效因為只要這個職場有達到100人或是250人你們都會給予鼓勵比如說不入室或是自行設計托兒機構這當然是稍微困難一點還有特約機構給予津貼等等你歷年的成效你自己覺得有沒有進步\n\n06:53.462 --> 06:57.778\n我們自己的資料我們來看是都有逐漸在進步成長\n\n06:58.800 --> 07:14.023\n好那我給你看一下有多多多竹劍啊多牛部這是你們每年會抽查的這個每年抽查1000個企業喔然後算比例好你來看有設立托兒服務機構的從108年到112年是1.1到1.31.4在成長我們來用分母來看啦你就是每年其實就是增加一兩家而已這樣你也算是進步嗎\n\n07:25.837 --> 07:46.374\n陳委員報所謂第一項世界單位設立托兒服務機構我們都有補助他新設立的托兒設施我們去年已經修改法令從300萬補助到最高500萬另外如果是要改善世界單位要改善托兒設施我們有補助大概最多50萬\n\n07:46.994 --> 08:03.431\n那你看這個沒有提供托兒措施其實也沒有改善多少那我們來看一下你的執行率啦這邊呢其實我們也是對你們非常的好我們總共讓你們在救安基金編了多少4268萬元喔全部都\n\n08:04.292 --> 08:09.295\n全部都讓你們做結果你們最後是執行率是七成最後只有花了三千萬就像你剛剛講的你剛剛已經把最高補助你這些傳單都發出去啦五百萬五十萬六十萬還有你花的這些沒宣費只有十九個讚我昨天還幫你點了第二十個讚\n\n08:24.195 --> 08:53.357\n那個其實不是只有這一個平台我們其他平台也有的我懂但是你覺得你這樣子的執行率七成好嗎你是不是應該要更有創意的做法是我們請市長是感謝委員關心我們那個補助企業單位來設相關的托兒設施或措施在救安基金裡面我們用救保基金來支應那其中邊的4000多萬其實我還有補助縣市政府的人力的費用還有設置企業托兒網\n\n08:54.238 --> 09:18.835\n的資訊的費用真正補助事業單位的將近兩千多萬我們全數我們幾乎百分之百全數用在補助事業單位來設拓設施或措施我這邊具體給你一個建議因為有一些願意設置的人會回饋我一些故事啦他說他們在設置的過程中可能因為這個拖音拖耳法規等等的\n\n09:19.195 --> 09:36.942\n他們會需要協助需要輔導他可能空間不足但是他是很有意願做這件事情的我也希望你們勞動部可以去調查想要有意願做這件事情你們去輔導他不然他是從零開始摸索他願意投入這筆錢但最後他卻沒有辦法做到好嗎\n\n09:38.283 --> 10:05.000\n委員我再補充說明一下我們非常感謝事業單位他願意願意願員工來提供一個友善育兒的職場所以我們是免費免費入場去輔導他因為就你所知道的他會有空地上的問題他有用地上的問題所以他而且他必須要在縣市政府不管是教育局或社會局要去立案所以這個部分我們是跨部會跨局處\n\n10:06.061 --> 10:22.174\n看哪個台北市我們就找交易局或找那個經發局等等的我們去協助他用力解決用力的問題最後空間真的沒有辦法您是否也可以輔導他去跟其他的外界的做一些\n\n10:24.657 --> 10:48.457\n我們當然就是他如果真的空間沒有辦法我們也協助他有些聯合托育的方式來協助我們這些協助全部是免費所以有任何意願的也歡迎委員可以告訴我們我們主動會去協助他是希望因為看到這個表是有點有點覺得太慢了啦所以我還是希望說未來看到這個新的表你們是比較有\n\n10:49.318 --> 11:02.050\n大比例的突破因為記得在韓國最近他們做友善職場終於有稍微也逆轉了一下出生率下一位我們請國發會今天是處長國發會處長還有我們的教育部副署長以及我們的衛福部次長\n\n11:15.506 --> 11:27.051\n好我們要看一下這是我們本院的同事黃建豪委員而且我們全院其實都為他開心他生了雙胞胎接著他就去申請了育兒津貼也順利的申請到了結果\n\n11:31.753 --> 11:34.035\n不管是罷免團體或是公民團體或是側翼等等現在卻在網路上大規模的說我們刪了育兒津貼他還去領育兒津貼等等的這些我也想問一下\n\n11:47.347 --> 11:54.739\n育兒津貼我們是在114年的少子化對策計畫下面的作業要點來進行補助請問我們先請問教育部副署長育兒津貼領不領得到學錢補助領不領得到114年\n\n12:02.080 --> 12:25.815\n沒有問題因為我們目前已經相關核定第一期已經做了處理那不管是津貼或者是就學補助目前都依序在辦理好謝謝我們副署長幫我們黃建豪委員澄清育兒津貼就學津貼是一毛都未下那次長您是不是也同意為什麼不是次長關於黃建豪委員這個事情老實說我是一無所知但是\n\n12:26.876 --> 12:32.720\n據我了解確實是有委員在衛航委員會提案並就是說凍結我們少子女化對策100萬這邊我已經幫你調出來了好下一張跟你說育兒今天我們是放在獎補助金裡面我已經幫你圈起來我已經幫你圈起來\n\n12:46.129 --> 13:00.013\n上一頁這個獎補助金我們是一毛未三喔所以育兒津貼這些錢全國人民都領得到我也請主管機關不要再放任大家造謠甚至主管機關自己再造謠好次長你剛講到的\n\n13:04.543 --> 13:18.820\n凍結什麼呢凍結少子女化裡面完全跟育兒津貼不相關裡面的案由全部都在寫托兒托育育兒監視器被不當的刪除等等這些原因總共凍10案\n\n13:21.389 --> 13:48.502\n裡面不乏有我們林月琴委員的提案還有我們王振旭委員的提案所以請次長也在這邊澄清好嗎這些少子女化的凍結案跟月經貼無關請你說報告委員現在這樣就是說我們根據這個大院的這個紀錄我們是有審查凍結少子女化對策計畫是1010萬有喔我都幫你算出來我有印出來了所有的案有我也讀完了請問哪一筆跟月經貼有關\n\n13:49.962 --> 14:12.427\n對但是委員現在目前你要推津貼當然你總是要業務總是要做那相關的那個業務推動啊那現在這個如果說有這個凍結的話我們現在這個部分我們還是必須有沒有影響這個有直接影響間接影響這個還是必須請你回憶一下去年3月啊大家就陸陸續續解凍因為你們的確是有做得不好有這麼多額虐剛剛才剛質詢欸剛剛林月琴委員才剛質詢你欸有人刪除監視器這些事情\n\n14:17.868 --> 14:39.624\n全部都寫在暗游裡面也有民進黨委員寫的暗游不是委員現在是這樣啦我想這個大家我們都會共同來關心那你要不要趕快提解凍案啊對你是不是要趕快提解凍案而且這些是跟育兒津貼毫不相關的解凍案喔我們是為了讓你托育托嬰的環境更安全不要再讓我們看到凱凱案欸\n\n14:41.346 --> 14:56.083\n這是藍、綠、白所有委員一起提出來的凍結案那我們也懇請大院我會全力來努力來進行相關推動市長你只需要回答我一句話114年大家是不是都可以領到育兒津貼你只要講這句話就好了\n\n14:57.284 --> 15:08.213\n都可以領到如果說如果說我們的財政收支劃分如果是現在目前這樣的情況的話那抱歉我在這邊我無法我無法我無法承諾財政收支劃分你先不要牽扯到我在講114年我剛是在講114年我剛是在講114年來那個我們請這個\n\n15:20.302 --> 15:24.326\n我們來請國發會的代表我們是不是有要再編列115年的少子化對策計畫是不是還有跟委員報告這個是在行政院層級這邊做討論所以你們有再因應嗎會繼續再編少子化對策計畫是嗎\n\n15:41.956 --> 16:02.271\n這個不是國發會這邊也不是國發會這邊推好那我們就請次長次長您是可以代替行政院做回答是不是因為現在財化法行政院連施行日期都還沒講出來你就冒然的說出財化法會影響育兒及租屋補貼你為什麼要這樣子恐嚇人民呢報告委員人無遠慮必有盡憂\n\n16:05.014 --> 16:28.382\n我做行政官員我就必須要有一個負責任的要把任何可能性要把它考慮在內包括對於人民的這一個權利我真的都是必須要做最可能的這一個打算嘛所以你的意思是說財化法當初賴清德總統當立委的時候也提了版本蕭美琴也有版本曾立軍也有版本還有現在許多民進黨委員也有版本當時人無眼力必有盡憂嗎當時他沒有提喔\n\n16:30.923 --> 16:36.066\n你連施行日期都還不知道你就開始散放這樣子的消息報告委員這個不是什麼日子就是說有很多情況我們必須要做\n\n16:52.213 --> 17:01.401\n所以說做一個負責任的行政官員你是不是應該要好好的跟所有的地方政府溝通來發放育兒津貼這件事情還有你是不是要好好的跟政府官員溝通我們的小子化對策計畫115年既然我們114年之前做的成效都不錯是不是也應該要繼續啊\n\n17:19.696 --> 17:22.281\n不是嗎這個才是負責任的表現啊也懇請委員和大院能夠支持我們這項預算\n\n17:29.184 --> 17:55.987\n什麼預算我們已經支持我們全部都支持啊我們凍結的案由我現在每一項唸給你聽都是剛剛林月琴委員告訴你的事情喔都是最近社會矚目案件所發生的事情喔我們只是希望你做得更好而已剛才你也有看到我們這個勞動部做育兒場所他的執行率是七成所以為什麼我們要去監督為什麼要去凍結給你了四千萬你執行三千萬\n\n17:57.168 --> 18:14.006\n然後呢開演唱會大手大腳花了這麼多錢這樣不用監督嗎不需要嗎所以為什麼我們要去管這些托育場所的監視器畫面等等這也是你們應該要做的啊包委所以我們現在目前已經已經提出托育服務法\n\n18:14.747 --> 18:36.704\n然後呢我們現在目前的兒少權益法我剛都有聽你剛都已經講過了所以現在目前這個部分我叫委員會非常關心我們送托人員所以我也希望你們可以盡快把解凍案送進來不要再牽托有的沒的了那也希望在這邊非常謝謝副署長教育部副署長很認真的跟我們澄清說大家還是可以領到托兒津貼還有學錢補助謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.626,"end":13.531,"text":"委員 各位官員 主席 大家好首先想要請這個勞動部的次長理事長是 委員好"},{"start":24.089,"end":43.537,"text":"次長好第一個我想關注的議題是因為昨天有許多警消人員他們有私訊來反映這件事情那我相信工會法也會是未來我們勞動部或是在未還委員會講的議題之一比如說他們可不可以有罷工權他們可不可以組工會等等的"},{"start":43.957,"end":71.968,"text":"那您的部長呢之前在上政論節目的時候曾經說他是支持罷工權的為什麼我們警消委員會需要組工會呢其實他們是為了爭取他們的勞動權勞動條件太差想要更新設備等等等等但是昨天卻有這個民進黨黨團柯總召呢他這樣子的說法他居然滑坡到說如果警消組工會警消罷工的話呢那中共就會趁機入侵"},{"start":74.351,"end":79.684,"text":"擾台因為這個警消組工會會把整個政府都癱瘓掉請問您認同這樣子的說法嗎 次長"},{"start":83.137,"end":107.933,"text":"那個科診總統的意見我們都尊重尊重那您要不要幫警消人員說幾句話他們如果想要爭取他們正確的勞權或是罷工權等等的其實是為他們自身的權益我們不要讓他們被抹紅好嗎當然當然勞動部當然是維護那個勞動者他們的勞動權益的所以警消人員並不會影響到中共犯台嗎對吧"},{"start":110.814,"end":128.364,"text":"這個我想委員柯總的意見我們都尊重但是我們還是認為勞動權益只要是勞動者包括警消人員我們勞動部都是要協助維護的好 謝謝次長幫我們警消打火弟兄講話那再來我們希望請這個衛福部次長您先請坐好 謝謝請呂次長"},{"start":135.123,"end":152.558,"text":"市長我們有一個前瞻計畫每次為了少子化都會來這邊編列特別預算那衛黃委員會也是很大方的因為我們也認為少子化就連中研院院士都已經講到這是我們國家非常重要的問題那提醒你這邊"},{"start":153.999,"end":171.54,"text":"您有一個少子化友善育兒空間建設建構0到2歲兒童社區公共托育計畫這個分工上呢您卻被行政院評比為紅燈是跟海委會並列喔是他們需要來積極輔導的是不是有這件事"},{"start":173.781,"end":188.572,"text":"嚴重落後 進度嚴重落後報告委員 感謝委員的關心 那現在目前最新的那個進度我們現在目前已經解除了 已經解除這個列管 你看一下這個圖我們現在已經解上了 藍色的線"},{"start":189.632,"end":215.766,"text":"藍色的線是你們預定執行的進度黃色的是你們經費達成率到9月10月11月行政院覺得哇這實在是跟你們預定的進度落差太大了所以當時找了台南市高雄市宜蘭縣地方政府來輔導你們是不是有這件事報告委員我們現在是這樣這個部分我們在推的時候我們地方政府那邊確實是有一些相關的延擋那來這邊先請這一個"},{"start":218.811,"end":238.034,"text":"報告委員是這個少子女化計畫相關經費都是補助到地方政府去設立相關的機構所以進度的部分都在地方來掌握所以是我們去看地方政府現在執行的狀況那你們現在的經費達成率大概是多少因為前瞻到八月就要結束了"},{"start":242.219,"end":253.617,"text":"我們去年的執行的去年的執行率核定率是都經費都有核定出去實際的執行率大概是在八成多就跟這個圖一樣嘛 對不對83%"},{"start":258.061,"end":275.677,"text":"是完全照合訂的部分 經費都有合給地方 就是地方有申請的部分因為你們之前設定自己 比如說公共托育32處托育資源一處 社會福利中心一處兒少家庭福利館一處 還有緊急安置一處請問這些你的目標什麼時候你可以全部達成"},{"start":281.782,"end":302.554,"text":"跟委員報告計畫上這邊所提到年度目標點數的部分都有照計畫有核定出去那但是地方政府在佈建因為他的有工程施工能在期程上面有少數的部分他的期程沒有完但是核定的數量是完全照年度目標都有核定出去甚至有超過所以32處你目前沒有辦法為我們預測什麼時候他們可以開張"},{"start":309.588,"end":328.082,"text":"個別的每一個點那在計畫申請的時候跟現在在管考的時候我們都有在追個別的進度那目前來看有少數的確實在當初地方政府原來規劃的時候也許是資料或者實際上的表那今年年底前可以達成嗎2024年年底前絕大多數應該是都可以"},{"start":328.722,"end":354.101,"text":"會拖 少數會拖到明年啊我要簡單做一個說明我有幾個例子 譬如像彰化彰化那個王縣長他也很積極在推動可是現在目前有問題 他現在就是說他希望把我們核給他的那個整個原來托運中心 親子館他還要結合當地的這一個那個像老人等等那些像我之前像竹塘那個案子 這就是非常成功的案子那這裡面 因為他變更設計等等這些 那所以"},{"start":354.841,"end":377.614,"text":"像這些我們基本上因為我們核定出去都沒有問題像是各地方政府我們會來催那地方政府像我剛剛舉的彰化案例他們現在目前有一些他們希望做得更好integrated 整合式的好 那沒關係因為前瞻到八月嘛所以八月還有年底本席還會再來看你們的這個經費達成率跟執行進度到達哪裡好 謝謝再下一位我們會再請勞動部好 謝謝感謝委員 謝謝"},{"start":385.151,"end":411.584,"text":"好 次長有看到勞動部是鼓勵這些鼓勵我們友善托嬰托兒職場等等設施我們來分析你的成效因為只要這個職場有達到100人或是250人你們都會給予鼓勵比如說不入室或是自行設計托兒機構這當然是稍微困難一點還有特約機構給予津貼等等你歷年的成效你自己覺得有沒有進步"},{"start":413.462,"end":417.778,"text":"我們自己的資料我們來看是都有逐漸在進步成長"},{"start":418.8,"end":434.023,"text":"好那我給你看一下有多多多竹劍啊多牛部這是你們每年會抽查的這個每年抽查1000個企業喔然後算比例好你來看有設立托兒服務機構的從108年到112年是1.1到1.3 1.4在成長我們來用分母來看啦你就是每年其實就是增加一兩家而已這樣你也算是進步嗎"},{"start":445.837,"end":466.374,"text":"陳委員報所謂第一項世界單位設立托兒服務機構我們都有補助他新設立的托兒設施我們去年已經修改法令從300萬補助到最高500萬另外如果是要改善世界單位要改善托兒設施我們有補助大概最多50萬"},{"start":466.994,"end":483.431,"text":"那你看這個沒有提供托兒措施其實也沒有改善多少那我們來看一下你的執行率啦這邊呢其實我們也是對你們非常的好我們總共讓你們在救安基金編了多少4268萬元喔全部都"},{"start":484.292,"end":489.295,"text":"全部都讓你們做 結果你們最後是執行率是七成 最後只有花了三千萬就像你剛剛講的 你剛剛已經把最高補助 你這些傳單都發出去啦五百萬 五十萬 六十萬 還有你花的這些沒宣費只有十九個讚 我昨天還幫你點了第二十個讚"},{"start":504.195,"end":533.357,"text":"那個其實不是只有這一個平台我們其他平台也有的我懂但是你覺得你這樣子的執行率七成好嗎你是不是應該要更有創意的做法是我們請市長是感謝委員關心我們那個補助企業單位來設相關的托兒設施或措施在救安基金裡面我們用救保基金來支應那其中邊的4000多萬其實我還有補助縣市政府的人力的費用還有設置企業托兒網"},{"start":534.238,"end":558.835,"text":"的資訊的費用真正補助事業單位的將近兩千多萬我們全數我們幾乎百分之百全數用在補助事業單位來設拓設施或措施我這邊具體給你一個建議因為有一些願意設置的人會回饋我一些故事啦他說他們在設置的過程中可能因為這個拖音拖耳法規等等的"},{"start":559.195,"end":576.942,"text":"他們會需要協助需要輔導他可能空間不足但是他是很有意願做這件事情的我也希望你們勞動部可以去調查想要有意願做這件事情你們去輔導他不然他是從零開始摸索他願意投入這筆錢但最後他卻沒有辦法做到好嗎"},{"start":578.283,"end":605,"text":"委員我再補充說明一下我們非常感謝事業單位他願意願意願員工來提供一個友善育兒的職場所以我們是免費免費入場去輔導他因為就你所知道的他會有空地上的問題他有用地上的問題所以他而且他必須要在縣市政府不管是教育局或社會局要去立案所以這個部分我們是跨部會跨局處"},{"start":606.061,"end":622.174,"text":"看哪個台北市我們就找交易局或找那個經發局等等的我們去協助他用力解決用力的問題最後空間真的沒有辦法您是否也可以輔導他去跟其他的外界的做一些"},{"start":624.657,"end":648.457,"text":"我們當然就是他如果真的空間沒有辦法我們也協助他有些聯合托育的方式來協助我們這些協助全部是免費所以有任何意願的也歡迎委員可以告訴我們我們主動會去協助他是希望因為看到這個表是有點有點覺得太慢了啦所以我還是希望說未來看到這個新的表你們是比較有"},{"start":649.318,"end":662.05,"text":"大比例的突破因為記得在韓國最近他們做友善職場終於有稍微也逆轉了一下出生率下一位我們請國發會今天是處長國發會處長還有我們的教育部副署長以及我們的衛福部次長"},{"start":675.506,"end":687.051,"text":"好我們要看一下這是我們本院的同事黃建豪委員而且我們全院其實都為他開心他生了雙胞胎接著他就去申請了育兒津貼也順利的申請到了結果"},{"start":691.753,"end":694.035,"text":"不管是罷免團體或是公民團體或是側翼等等現在卻在網路上大規模的說我們刪了育兒津貼他還去領育兒津貼等等的這些我也想問一下"},{"start":707.347,"end":714.739,"text":"育兒津貼我們是在114年的少子化對策計畫下面的作業要點來進行補助請問我們先請問教育部副署長育兒津貼領不領得到學錢補助領不領得到114年"},{"start":722.08,"end":745.815,"text":"沒有問題因為我們目前已經相關核定第一期已經做了處理那不管是津貼或者是就學補助目前都依序在辦理好謝謝我們副署長幫我們黃建豪委員澄清育兒津貼就學津貼是一毛都未下那次長您是不是也同意為什麼不是次長關於黃建豪委員這個事情老實說我是一無所知但是"},{"start":746.876,"end":752.72,"text":"據我了解確實是有委員在衛航委員會提案並就是說凍結我們少子女化對策100萬這邊我已經幫你調出來了好下一張跟你說育兒今天我們是放在獎補助金裡面我已經幫你圈起來我已經幫你圈起來"},{"start":766.129,"end":780.013,"text":"上一頁這個獎補助金我們是一毛未三喔所以育兒津貼這些錢全國人民都領得到我也請主管機關不要再放任大家造謠甚至主管機關自己再造謠好 次長你剛講到的"},{"start":784.543,"end":798.82,"text":"凍結什麼呢凍結少子女化裡面完全跟育兒津貼不相關裡面的案由全部都在寫托兒 托育 育兒監視器被不當的刪除等等這些原因總共凍10案"},{"start":801.389,"end":828.502,"text":"裡面不乏有我們林月琴委員的提案還有我們王振旭委員的提案所以請次長也在這邊澄清好嗎這些少子女化的凍結案跟月經貼無關請你說報告委員現在這樣就是說我們根據這個大院的這個紀錄我們是有審查凍結少子女化對策計畫是1010萬有喔我都幫你算出來我有印出來了所有的案有我也讀完了請問哪一筆跟月經貼有關"},{"start":829.962,"end":852.427,"text":"對 但是委員現在目前你要推津貼當然你總是要業務總是要做那相關的那個業務推動啊那現在這個如果說有這個凍結的話我們現在這個部分我們還是必須有沒有影響這個有直接影響 間接影響這個還是必須請你回憶一下去年3月啊大家就陸陸續續解凍因為你們的確是有做得不好有這麼多額虐剛剛才剛質詢欸剛剛林月琴委員才剛質詢你欸有人刪除監視器這些事情"},{"start":857.868,"end":879.624,"text":"全部都寫在暗游裡面 也有民進黨委員寫的暗游不是 委員 現在是這樣啦我想這個大家我們都會共同來關心那你要不要趕快提解凍案啊對 你是不是要趕快提解凍案而且這些是跟育兒津貼毫不相關的解凍案喔我們是為了讓你托育 托嬰的環境更安全不要再讓我們看到凱凱案欸"},{"start":881.346,"end":896.083,"text":"這是藍、綠、白所有委員一起提出來的凍結案那我們也懇請大院我會全力來努力來進行相關推動市長你只需要回答我一句話114年大家是不是都可以領到育兒津貼你只要講這句話就好了"},{"start":897.284,"end":908.213,"text":"都可以領到如果說如果說我們的財政收支劃分如果是現在目前這樣的情況的話那抱歉我在這邊我無法我無法我無法承諾財政收支劃分你先不要牽扯到我在講114年我剛是在講114年我剛是在講114年來那個我們請這個"},{"start":920.302,"end":924.326,"text":"我們來請國發會的代表我們是不是有要再編列115年的少子化對策計畫 是不是還有跟委員報告 這個是在行政院層級這邊做討論所以你們有再因應嗎會繼續再編少子化對策計畫是嗎"},{"start":941.956,"end":962.271,"text":"這個不是國發會這邊也不是國發會這邊推好那我們就請次長次長您是可以代替行政院做回答是不是因為現在財化法行政院連施行日期都還沒講出來你就冒然的說出財化法會影響育兒及租屋補貼你為什麼要這樣子恐嚇人民呢報告委員人無遠慮必有盡憂"},{"start":965.014,"end":988.382,"text":"我做行政官員我就必須要有一個負責任的要把任何可能性要把它考慮在內包括對於人民的這一個權利我真的都是必須要做最可能的這一個打算嘛所以你的意思是說財化法當初賴清德總統當立委的時候也提了版本蕭美琴也有版本曾立軍也有版本還有現在許多民進黨委員也有版本當時人無眼力必有盡憂嗎當時他沒有提喔"},{"start":990.923,"end":996.066,"text":"你連施行日期都還不知道你就開始散放這樣子的消息報告委員這個不是什麼日子就是說有很多情況我們必須要做"},{"start":1012.213,"end":1021.401,"text":"所以說做一個負責任的行政官員你是不是應該要好好的跟所有的地方政府溝通來發放育兒津貼這件事情還有你是不是要好好的跟政府官員溝通我們的小子化對策計畫115年 既然我們114年之前做的成效都不錯是不是也應該要繼續啊"},{"start":1039.696,"end":1042.281,"text":"不是嗎這個才是負責任的表現啊也懇請委員和大院能夠支持我們這項預算"},{"start":1049.184,"end":1075.987,"text":"什麼預算我們已經支持我們全部都支持啊我們凍結的案由我現在每一項唸給你聽都是剛剛林月琴委員告訴你的事情喔都是最近社會矚目案件所發生的事情喔我們只是希望你做得更好而已剛才你也有看到我們這個勞動部做育兒場所他的執行率是七成所以為什麼我們要去監督為什麼要去凍結給你了四千萬你執行三千萬"},{"start":1077.168,"end":1094.006,"text":"然後呢開演唱會大手大腳花了這麼多錢這樣不用監督嗎不需要嗎所以為什麼我們要去管這些托育場所的監視器畫面等等這也是你們應該要做的啊包委所以我們現在目前已經已經提出托育服務法"},{"start":1094.747,"end":1116.704,"text":"然後呢我們現在目前的兒少權益法我剛都有聽你剛都已經講過了所以現在目前這個部分我叫委員會非常關心我們送托人員所以我也希望你們可以盡快把解凍案送進來不要再牽托有的沒的了那也希望在這邊非常謝謝副署長教育部副署長很認真的跟我們澄清說大家還是可以領到托兒津貼還有學錢補助謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":657,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時54分）委員、各位官員、主席，大家好。首先想要請勞動部次長。"],["主席：李次長。"],["李次長健鴻：委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：次長好。我想關注的第一個議題是，因為昨天有許多警消人員有私訊來反映這件事情，我相信工會法也會是未來勞動部或是在衛環委員會講的議題之一，比如他們可不可以有罷工權、他們可不可以組工會等等。您的部長之前在上政論節目的時候曾經說，他是支持罷工權的。為什麼警消人員會需要組工會呢？其實他們是為了爭取勞動權、改善勞動條件太差的情況、想要更新設備等等，但是昨天民進黨黨團柯總召有這樣的說法，他居然滑坡到說，如果警消組工會、警消罷工的話，中共就會趁機入侵擾臺，因為警消組工會會把整個政府都癱瘓掉。次長，請問您認同這樣的說法嗎？"],["李次長健鴻：對於柯總召的意見，我們都尊重。"],["陳委員菁徽：尊重？"],["李次長健鴻：對。"],["陳委員菁徽：您要不要幫警消人員說幾句話？如果他們想要爭取正確的勞權或是罷工權等等，其實是為他們自身的權益，我們不要讓他們被抹紅，好嗎？"],["李次長健鴻：當然！勞動部當然是維護勞動者的勞動權益。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以警消人員罷工並不會影響到中共犯臺，對吧？"],["李次長健鴻：對於柯總召的意見，我們都尊重。但我們還是認為只要是勞動者的勞動權益，包括警消人員，勞動部都要協助維護。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝次長幫警消、打火弟兄講話。再來，請衛福部次長。您先請坐。"],["李次長健鴻：好。"],["主席：謝謝。請呂次長。"],["呂次長建德：委員早。"],["陳委員菁徽：次長，我們有一個前瞻計畫，每一次為了少子化都會來這邊編列特別預算，衛環委員會也是很大方的，因為我們也認為少子化議題重要，就連中研院院士都已經講，這是我們國家非常重要的問題。"],["呂次長建德：當然，沒錯。"],["陳委員菁徽：提醒你，你們有一個少子化友善育兒空間建設──建構0-2歲兒童社區公共托育計畫，分工上卻被行政院評比為紅燈，跟海委會並列，是需要他們來積極輔導的，是不是有這件事？進度嚴重落後！"],["呂次長建德：感謝委員關心。目前最新的進度是我們已經解除列管了。"],["陳委員菁徽：你看一下這個圖。"],["呂次長建德：我們現在已經追上了。"],["陳委員菁徽：藍色的線是你們預定執行的進度，黃色的是你們的經費達成率，到9月、10月、11月，行政院覺得這實在是跟你們預定的進度落差太大了，所以當時找了臺南市、高雄市、宜蘭縣等地方政府來輔導你們，是不是有這件事？"],["呂次長建德：現在是這樣，這個部分我們在推的時候，在地方政府那邊確實是有一些延宕。"],["周代理署長道君：少子女化計畫相關經費都是補助到地方政府去設立相關的機構，所以進度的部分都是地方來掌握，我們去看地方政府現在執行的狀況。"],["陳委員菁徽：你們現在的經費達成率大概是多少？因為前瞻到8月就要結束了。"],["周代理署長道君：我們去年是經費都有核定出去，實際的執行率大概是在八成多。"],["陳委員菁徽：就跟這個圖一樣，對不對？83%！"],["周代理署長道君：是，核定的部分，經費都有核給地方，就是地方有申請的部分，因為都由地方來做。"],["陳委員菁徽：因為你們自己之前設定比如公共托育32處、托育資源1處、社會福利中心1處、兒少家庭福利館1處，還有緊急安置1處，請問這些目標什麼時候可以全部達成？"],["周代理署長道君：計畫上所提到的年度目標，點數的部分都有照計畫核定出去，而地方政府在布建因為工程施工有少數的期程沒有完成，但是核定的數量完全照年度目標都有核定出去，甚至有超過。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你目前沒有辦法為我們預測，什麼時候這32處可以開張？"],["周代理署長道君：個別的每一個點，在計畫申請跟現在管考的時候，我們都有在追個別的進度，目前來看，有少數的確實在當初地方政府原來規劃的時候，也許是資料或實際上招標……"],["陳委員菁徽：那今年年底以前可以達成嗎？2024年……年底以前。"],["周代理署長道君：絕大多數應該是都可以。"],["陳委員菁徽：少數會拖到明年吶？"],["呂次長建德：委員，我來簡單做一個說明，舉個例子，比如彰化，彰化王縣長他也很積極在推動，可是目前有個問題，他希望把我們核給他原來的托嬰中心、親子館，他還要結合當地的像老人等等，像竹塘那個案子就是非常成功的案子，這裡面因為它要變更設計等等，所以像這些基本上我們核定出去都沒有問題。"],["陳委員菁徽：好。"],["呂次長建德：現在是各地方政府，我們會來催，地方政府像我剛剛舉的彰化案例，他們希望做得更好，integrated、一個整合式的。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，那沒關係，因為前瞻到8月。"],["周代理署長道君：是、是、是。"],["陳委員菁徽：8月還有年底，本席還會再來看你們的經費達成率跟執行進度到達哪裡。"],["呂次長建德：好。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝。下一位我們再請勞動部。"],["呂次長建德：感謝委員。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝。次長，有看到勞動部是鼓勵友善托育、托嬰、托兒職場等設施，我們來分析你的成效，因為只要職場有達到100人或250人，你們都會給予鼓勵，比如哺乳室或自行設計托兒機構（這當然是稍微困難一點），還有特約機構給予津貼等等，你歷年的成效自己覺得有沒有進步？"],["李次長健鴻：跟委員報告，我們自己的資料來看是都有逐漸在進步成長。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，那我給你看一下有多逐漸、多牛步。你們每年會抽查1,000個企業，然後算比例，你來看有設立托兒服務機構的，從108年到112年是1.1到1.3、1.4在成長，我們用分母來看，每年其實就是增加一、兩家而已，這樣你也算是進步嗎？"],["李次長健鴻：跟委員報告，所謂第一項事業單位設立托兒服務機構，我們都有補助新設立的托兒設施，去年已經修改法令，從300萬補助到最高500萬；另外，如果事業單位要改善托兒設施，我們有補助大概最多50萬。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，那你看沒有提供托兒措施的也沒有改善多少。我們來看一下你的執行率，其實我們也是對你們非常好，總共讓你們在就安基金編了多少？4,268萬元喔！"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：全部都讓你們做，結果最後執行率是七成，只有花了3,000萬，就像你剛剛講的，你已經把最高補助這些傳單都發出去了，500萬、50萬、60萬。還有你花的媒宣費只有19個讚，我昨天還幫你點了第20個讚。"],["李次長健鴻：其實不是只有這一個平臺，我們其他平臺也有。"],["陳委員菁徽：我懂，但是你覺得你這樣子的執行率七成好嗎？你是不是應該要更有創意的作法？"],["李次長健鴻：我們請司長。"],["謝司長倩蒨：感謝委員關心，我們補助事業單位來設相關的托兒設施或措施，在就安基金裡面，我們用就保基金來支應，其中編了四千多萬，其實我們還有補助縣市政府的人力費用、還有設置企業托兒網的資訊費用，真正補助事業單位的將近兩千多萬，我們幾乎100%全數用在補助事業單位來設托兒設施或措施，我們全數……"],["陳委員菁徽：我這邊具體給你一個建議，因為有一些願意設置的人會回饋我一些故事。他說他們在設置的過程中，可能因為托嬰、托兒法規等等，他們會需要協助、需要輔導，他可能空間不足，但是他是很有意願做這件事情的，我也希望你們勞動部可以去調查想要有意願做這件事情，你們去輔導他，不然他是從零開始摸索，他願意投入這筆錢，但最後他卻沒有辦法做到，好嗎？"],["謝司長倩蒨：是。委員，我再補充說明一下。"],["陳委員菁徽：是。"],["謝司長倩蒨：我們非常感謝事業單位願意為員工來提供一個友善育兒的職場，所以我們是「免費」入場去輔導它，因為就你所知道的，它會有空地上的問題。"],["陳委員菁徽：對。"],["謝司長倩蒨：它有用地上的問題，而且它必須要在縣市政府，不管是教育局或社會局要去立案，所以這個部分我們是跨部會、跨局處，譬如臺北市，我們就找教育局或找經發局等等，我們去協助它解決用地的問題……"],["陳委員菁徽：如果它最後空間真的沒有辦法，您是否也可以輔導它，去跟其他外界的做一些……"],["謝司長倩蒨：我們當然……"],["陳委員菁徽：介接嘛！"],["謝司長倩蒨：當然它如果真的空間沒有辦法，我們也協助它，聯合托育的方式來協助。"],["陳委員菁徽：是。"],["謝司長倩蒨：我們這些協助全部是免費，所以有任何意願的，也歡迎委員可以告訴我們，我們主動會去協助它。"],["陳委員菁徽：我是希望，因為我看到這個表有點覺得太慢了啦！所以我還是希望未來看到這個新的表，你們是比較有大比例的突破。"],["謝司長倩蒨：好，我們會努力。"],["陳委員菁徽：因為韓國最近做友善職場的措施終於稍微也逆轉了一下出生率。"],["謝司長倩蒨：是、是。"],["陳委員菁徽：好。"],["謝司長倩蒨：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員菁徽：下一位我們請國發會處長，還有教育部副署長以及衛福部次長。我們要看一下投影片，這是本院的同事黃健豪委員，而且我們全院其實都為他開心，他生了雙胞胎，接著他就去申請育兒津貼，也順利地申請到了，結果不管是罷免團體、公民團體或是側翼等等，現在卻在網路上大規模地說，我們刪了育兒津貼，他還去領育兒津貼等等。我也想問一下，育兒津貼是在114年少子化對策計畫下面的作業要點來進行補助，我們先請問教育部副署長，114年育兒津貼領不領得到？學前補助領不領得到？"],["許副署長麗娟：沒有問題，因為我們目前相關核定第一期已經做了處理，不管是津貼或就學補助，目前都依序在辦理。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，謝謝副署長幫我們黃健豪委員澄清。育兒津貼、就學津貼是一毛都未刪。那次長，您是不是也同意？衛福部次長。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，關於黃健豪委員這個事情，老實說我是一無所知，但是據我了解，確實是有委員在衛環委員會提案並凍結少子化對策100萬。"],["陳委員菁徽：這邊我已經幫你調出來了，跟你說，育兒津貼我們是放在獎補助金裡面，我已經幫你圈起來，這個獎補助金我們是一毛未刪喔！所以育兒津貼這些錢全國人民都領得到，我也請主管機關不要再放任大家造謠，甚至主管機關自己在造謠。","次長，你剛剛講到的凍結是什麼呢？凍結少子女化裡面完全跟育兒津貼不相關，裡面的案由全部都在寫托兒、托育、虐兒、監視器被不當地刪除等等這些原因，總共凍10案，裡面不乏有林月琴委員的提案，還有王正旭委員的提案，所以請次長也在這邊澄清，好嗎？這些少子女化的凍結案跟育兒津貼無關，請你說。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，現在是這樣，我們根據大院的紀錄，我們是有審查凍結少子女化對策計畫是1,010萬。"],["陳委員菁徽：有，我都幫你算出來也印出來了，所有的案由我也讀完了，請問哪一筆跟育兒津貼有關？"],["呂次長建德：對，但是委員，目前你要推津貼，當然總是要做相關業務推動啊！如果有這個凍結的話，現在這個部分我還是必須……有沒有影響？有直接影響、間接影響，這個還是必須……"],["陳委員菁徽：請你回憶一下，去年3月大家就陸陸續續解凍，因為你們的確是有做得不好，有這麼多兒虐，剛剛林月琴委員才質詢你耶！有人刪除監視器影像，這些事情全部都寫在案由裡面，也有民進黨委員寫的案由。"],["呂次長建德：不是，委員，現在是這樣，我想大家都會共同來關心，現在是主要……"],["陳委員菁徽：那你要不要趕快提解凍案？"],["呂次長建德：我們會提出書面……"],["陳委員菁徽：對，你是不是要趕快提解凍案，而且這些是跟育兒津貼毫不相關的解凍案，我們是為了讓托育、托嬰的環境更安全，不要再讓我們看到剴剴案，這是藍、綠、白所有委員一起提出來的凍結案。"],["呂次長建德：是、是、是，那我們也懇請大院，我會來全力努力、來進行相關的推動，也懇請……"],["陳委員菁徽：次長，你只需要回答我一句話，114年大家是不是都可以領到育兒津貼？你只要講這句話就好了，「都可以領到」。"],["呂次長建德：如果我們的財政收支劃分是目前這樣情況的話，那抱歉，在這邊我無法承諾。"],["陳委員菁徽：不要再牽扯……"],["呂次長建德：如果財政收支劃分現在……"],["陳委員菁徽：你先不要牽扯到……"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，現在真的是這樣。"],["陳委員菁徽：我在講114年，我剛剛是不是在講114年？"],["呂次長建德：我是行政官員，我也必須要把最壞情況跟國人報告。"],["陳委員菁徽：我剛剛是不是在講114年？我們請……"],["呂次長建德：如果財政收支劃分法就是目前這個情況的話，確實是有影響，謝謝。"],["陳委員菁徽：請國發會的代表，是不是還有要編列115年的少子化對策計畫？"],["謝處長佳宜：跟委員報告，這個是在行政院層級討論。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你們有在因應嗎？會繼續再編少子化對策計畫，是嗎？"],["謝處長佳宜：這個不是國發會編列的，也不是國發會推動的。"],["陳委員菁徽：請次長，您是可以代替行政院回答，是不是？因為現在財劃法，行政院連施行日期都還沒講，你就貿然地說出財劃法會影響育兒及租屋補貼，你為什麼要這樣恐嚇人民呢？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，人無遠慮，必有近憂，我做行政官員，我就必須負責任，要把任何可能性考慮在內，包括對於人民的權利，我都是必須要做可能的打算……"],["陳委員菁徽：你的意思是說，財劃法當初賴清德總統當立委的時候也提了版本，蕭美琴也有，鄭麗君也有，還有現在許多民進黨委員也有版本，當時人無遠慮，必有近憂嗎？當時他們都有提喔。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，可是目前通過的版本是大院目前的財劃法，我現在是說，按照目前財劃法這個版本的話，就會產生相關的影響。"],["陳委員菁徽：你連施行日期都還不知道，你就開始散放這樣的消息。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，很多情況，我們必須要做the least, the worst scenario、最壞打算，作為一個行政官員，本來就要負責任。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以做一個負責任的行政官員，你是不是應該要好好地跟所有的地方政府溝通來發放育兒津貼？還有，你是不是要好好地跟政府官員溝通115年少子化對策計畫，既然114年之前做的成效都不錯，是不是也應該要繼續？"],["呂次長建德：對。"],["陳委員菁徽：不是嗎？"],["呂次長建德：所以我懇請委員跟大院能夠支持……"],["陳委員菁徽：這才是負責任的表現啊！"],["呂次長建德：我也支持，也懇請委員跟大院能夠支持我們這項預算。"],["陳委員菁徽：什麼預算？我們已經支持了……"],["呂次長建德：少子化的預算，還有我們目前……"],["陳委員菁徽：我們全部都支持，我們凍結的案由我現在每一項唸給你聽，都是剛剛林月琴委員告訴你的，都是最近社會矚目案件所發生的事情，我們只是希望你做得更好而已。剛才你也有看到勞動部做育兒場所，執行率是七成，為什麼我們要去監督？為什麼要去凍結？給你4,000萬，你執行3,000萬，開演唱會，大手大腳，花了這麼多錢，這樣不用監督嗎？不需要嗎？所以為什麼我們要去管托育場所的監視器、畫面等等，這也是你們應該要做的啊！"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，所以我們目前已經提出托育服務法，還有兒少權益法現在目前……"],["陳委員菁徽：我剛剛都有聽，你剛剛都已經講過了。"],["呂次長建德：目前這個部分，我想委員也非常關心，我們共同來努力。"],["陳委員菁徽：對，所以我也希望你們可以儘快把解凍案送進來。"],["呂次長建德：好的。"],["陳委員菁徽：不要再牽拖有的沒的了，拜託。非常謝謝教育部副署長很認真地跟我們澄清說，大家還是可以領到育兒津貼還有學前補助，謝謝。"],["呂次長建德：感謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝次長，謝謝陳委員。","接續請王育敏委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-4","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","黃秀芳","劉建國","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","張雅琳","楊曜","李坤城","麥玉珍","陳瑩","鄭正鈐","黃捷","林德福","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、國家發展委員會、教育部、法務部針對「少子女化衝擊，如何營造\n友善托育環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143301_00001"}}}