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\"text\": \"外聘會計事務所做查核並承諾最終交給這個報告給立法院然而現在這些報告被列為了機密文件最終會送到立法院我想部長我想請問你這個文化部對於央廣調查的報告列為機密的決策是否知情文化部身為督導的單位有沒有去了解所有的狀況\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 504.818, \"end\": 505.118, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"聘\", \"start\": 505.118, \"end\": 506.359, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 506.359, \"end\": 506.639, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 506.639, \"end\": 506.799, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 506.799, \"end\": 506.96, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 506.96, \"end\": 507.34, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 507.34, \"end\": 507.64, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"承\", \"start\": 507.64, \"end\": 508.561, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"諾\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 508.561, \"end\": 508.981, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"終\"}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 508.981, \"end\": 510.102, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 510.102, \"end\": 510.782, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 510.782, \"end\": 510.962, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 510.962, \"end\": 511.143, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 511.143, \"end\": 511.443, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 511.443, \"end\": 511.623, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 511.623, \"end\": 512.223, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 512.223, \"end\": 512.504, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 512.504, \"end\": 512.864, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 512.864, \"end\": 513.064, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 513.064, \"end\": 513.304, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 513.304, \"end\": 513.864, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", 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\"text\": \"因為這件事情真的隔滿久的我知道之後我是開始了解整個過程是那在文化部的立場是很快的就要求第三方去調查調查出來發現有問題之後直接送檢調所以這個東西還在檢調單位在查然後當時的文化部2021年開始有要求央管改進內通制度還有會計查核制度有建立一個比較完善的透明的檢查方法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 532.915, \"end\": 533.075, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 533.075, \"end\": 533.095, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 533.095, \"end\": 533.315, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 533.315, \"end\": 533.555, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 533.555, \"end\": 533.676, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 533.676, \"end\": 533.836, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"隔\", \"start\": 533.836, \"end\": 534.256, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"滿\"}, {\"word\": \"久\", \"start\": 534.256, \"end\": 534.476, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 534.476, \"end\": 535.137, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 535.137, \"end\": 535.277, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 535.277, 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{\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 553.05, \"end\": 553.29, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 553.29, \"end\": 553.47, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 553.47, \"end\": 554.17, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 554.17, \"end\": 555.451, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 555.451, \"end\": 555.652, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 555.652, \"end\": 555.852, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 555.852, \"end\": 556.032, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 556.032, \"end\": 556.472, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 556.472, \"end\": 556.632, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 556.632, \"end\": 556.792, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 556.792, \"end\": 556.952, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 556.952, \"end\": 557.633, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 557.633, \"end\": 557.913, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 557.913, \"end\": 558.113, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"善\", \"start\": 558.113, \"end\": 558.233, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 558.233, \"end\": 558.394, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 558.394, \"end\": 558.594, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 558.594, \"end\": 558.814, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 558.814, \"end\": 559.594, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 559.594, \"end\": 559.775, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 559.775, \"end\": 559.975, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 559.975, \"end\": 559.995, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 561.116, \"end\": 579.032, \"text\": \"2021到現在我想改善蠻多的改善蠻多的那這一份報告我剛剛說的齁您作為文化部長督導單位齁你看起來有去了解了但是我們都知道這個案件被列為機密案件這個合理嗎你是否會督促央廣去解除這個機密的等級並依法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, 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\"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"鏡\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 676.699, \"end\": 676.939, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 676.939, \"end\": 677.54, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 677.54, \"end\": 677.92, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 677.92, \"end\": 677.98, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 677.98, \"end\": 678.2, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 678.2, \"end\": 678.4, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"善\", \"start\": 678.4, \"end\": 678.841, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 678.841, \"end\": 678.961, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 678.961, \"end\": 679.121, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 679.121, \"end\": 679.441, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 679.441, \"end\": 679.601, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 679.601, \"end\": 679.761, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"有\", 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{\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 687.788, \"end\": 687.948, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 687.948, \"end\": 688.088, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 688.088, \"end\": 688.229, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 688.229, \"end\": 688.789, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"刁\"}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 688.789, \"end\": 688.989, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 688.989, \"end\": 689.149, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 689.149, \"end\": 689.39, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 689.39, \"end\": 689.71, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 689.71, \"end\": 689.93, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 689.93, \"end\": 690.07, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 690.07, \"end\": 690.17, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 690.17, \"end\": 690.29, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 690.29, \"end\": 690.471, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 690.471, \"end\": 690.591, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"辛\", \"start\": 690.591, \"end\": 690.751, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"苦\", \"start\": 690.751, \"end\": 690.871, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 690.871, \"end\": 691.712, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 691.712, \"end\": 692.012, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 692.012, \"end\": 692.252, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"嫌\", \"start\": 692.252, \"end\": 692.693, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 692.693, \"end\": 692.773, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 692.773, \"end\": 692.853, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 692.853, \"end\": 693.914, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 693.914, \"end\": 694.034, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 694.034, \"end\": 694.154, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 694.154, \"end\": 694.514, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 694.514, \"end\": 694.995, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 694.995, \"end\": 695.175, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 695.175, \"end\": 695.695, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 695.695, \"end\": 695.915, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 695.915, \"end\": 696.156, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 696.156, \"end\": 696.176, \"score\": 0.975}]}, {\"start\": 696.736, \"end\": 722.898, \"text\": \"剛剛每個委員都在關注不管所提到的相關預算問題我想預算不外乎要監督那現在有這樣子的涉嫌有可能乍臨甚至是福報的一個狀況你們內部也有調查過的確是有這樣子的遺憾所以你說很遺憾嘛對不對所以在面臨這樣子的高度檢視跟監督的時候是有其必要性的對吧是好謝謝那我想所有的資料應該都要坦誠報告啦那最後我想請問一下這個部長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 985.766, \"end\": 985.906, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 985.906, \"end\": 986.126, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 986.126, \"end\": 986.226, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 986.226, \"end\": 986.346, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 986.346, \"end\": 986.486, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"油\", \"start\": 986.486, \"end\": 986.626, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 986.626, \"end\": 986.646, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,602 --> 00:00:36,260\n好謝謝趙薇有請部長好有請部長柏惟你好部長好部長想跟你探討一下這個文化傳承的一個布袋戲想跟你請問一下這幾個人物那我們一起來瞭解一下第一個部長您知道這是誰嗎這實驗文啊欸亞修車\n\n2\n00:00:38,119 --> 00:00:59,239\n夜小叉夜燒車我是故意這樣講假使因為我那裡笑的因為我們年齡差太多啦沒有沒有沒有我們不會去探討啦不會去做這樣子的一個我們沒有任何去調侃的意思啦一起探討一起加油第二個第二個\n\n3\n00:01:01,277 --> 00:01:25,283\n我剛剛聽台底下人好像蠻多共鳴是你們都知道嗎那第二個部長不是不是不是硬錫琳硬錫琳我們碧琪琳喔硬詩人第三個來來來盡量回答看看沒關係沒關係\n\n4\n00:01:31,578 --> 00:01:47,901\n太陽王啊有太陽王這個角色嗎我先跟你講啦這個拿來考我我也不知道我們不要說自己也要坦承啦但是這個是野兔林野兔林第四個\n\n5\n00:01:59,977 --> 00:02:21,053\n唉唷下面有人唸出來喔報告部長灰熊鹿非常女第五個這個已經是非常非常知名的了我本來知道我看到你我很緊張就忘記了\n\n6\n00:02:22,164 --> 00:02:50,238\n你不覺得今天我氣氛盡可能的就是大家很平和嗎我好緊張耶授還金授還真授還金好來第六個第六個其實真的蠻簡單的長進人啦最怕人再來第七個你講過的還要冷氣還要冷氣啦那第八個他算是也蠻常出現的\n\n7\n00:02:51,587 --> 00:03:17,621\n三個字有人打帕斯嗎可以打帕斯沒關係阿桑塞啦不是阿桑塞金雞仙那部長這樣子喔其實八個布袋戲的人物啊無形的文化資產那當然我坦白講連我要回答的時候有時候都非常的吃緊包括台底下大家一起聽到那我要講的是說今天答對\n\n8\n00:03:18,841 --> 00:03:43,739\n沒有得分答錯也不應該有處罰但是我們要講的是背後的一個含義我們希望在面臨現階段布袋戲的一個成長一直在緊縮30歲以下的年輕人搞不好還沒看過布袋戲但是我覺得布袋戲在台灣來說是一個非常重要的在整個粉絲跟客群一直在減少藝術傳承也都出現了斷層\n\n9\n00:03:45,040 --> 00:04:10,048\n那以及傳統記憶面臨消失的風險我們應該來共同的來努力但是我們要看到在台灣布袋戲竟然竟然竟然在日本是成長的台灣與日本在合作的這個東離劍遊記吸引了大批日本人關注布袋戲部長日本反而比台灣更關注布袋戲\n\n10\n00:04:10,788 --> 00:04:16,570\n那台灣作為這個布袋戲最重要的一個文化標誌我們該怎麼辦您覺得呢\n\n11\n00:04:17,540 --> 00:04:42,607\n我覺得我們回到本土文化裡面像歌仔戲跟布袋戲是絕對絕對第一重要所以我們在文化部其實我們有支持在雲林蓋了一個布袋部的傳習中心然後我們自己很多計畫是包括補助很多團體包括兒童團體裡面的繼續延續布袋戲的表演譬如說雲林有個\n\n12\n00:04:43,647 --> 00:05:07,710\n藝文教育扎根計畫我們就大概補助了3840萬所以像這個東西我以為你講的非常重要因為我剛剛跟你講這些人的名字的時候其實我童年我在萬華長大我每天上學就看到布偶的製作布偶怎麼製作怎麼畫臉怎麼畫臉怎麼做衣服他絕對是一個我們全力要推廣的\n\n13\n00:05:07,990 --> 00:05:35,874\n也是你成長過程的一個經歷對不對所以可以認同一起來幫布袋戲再繼續的扎根推廣那當然我沒有說你沒有補助我們都知道文化部在這個部分的不管是無形的文化資產以及我們傳統的記憶是有在努力的可是我要講的是說部長在你成長的時代一群學生興起創作民歌改變了國語這一個樂壇的一個制式化\n\n14\n00:05:36,795 --> 00:05:40,526\n現在民歌傳唱50年了你自己有沒有自己很熟悉的民歌\n\n15\n00:05:42,823 --> 00:06:07,716\n我寫過民歌我寫的最有名的一個民歌叫做跨父追日是李建復唱的跨父追日然後我寫過很多民歌跟陳陽合作是所以我是一個我沒聽過啊因為我可能對我來說可能是橄欖樹啊所以我因為年齡差太多所以你剛剛問我對民歌熟不熟其實我就是民歌創作者謝謝你好險你沒有考我民歌不然應該我也會像你那樣因為我實在太老了所以\n\n16\n00:06:08,496 --> 00:06:27,766\n但是我要講的是說民歌傳上50年政府在補助流行音樂的時候或許也都一直在努力的在民歌的推廣那也都有補助民歌但是聽眾如果老了我們是不是就應該要放棄這個其實讓民眾去有一個很大的一個反思那文化部沒有放棄\n\n17\n00:06:29,146 --> 00:06:45,059\n應該一起繼續努力但是我們要講的是不只是給予補助如何在教育的部分不要失去這個寶貴的偶戲一個文化布袋戲的一個扎根教育以及從國小國中高中要怎麼來做不只是文化的保存剛剛你說有這個管項嘛\n\n18\n00:06:47,240 --> 00:07:00,095\n那我們在這個文化的教育要怎麼樣來加強我想強調的是教育體系對布袋戲的一個傳承重要性而不是把布袋戲當作是短期的或者是活動式的或者是單純觀賞的我覺得這個都不夠長久如何創造一個在現在21世紀新的文化\n\n19\n00:07:05,822 --> 00:07:30,668\n但是是傳統的技藝我覺得在這一次日本跟台灣合作的東離建郵寄它去達到了這樣的效果所以讓日本的這個年輕人開始重視那我們是不是一起能夠來開始規劃來這個部分文化部加一點力呢我非常贊成因為我們總是要選擇幾個屬於我們台灣自己特有的文化來其實某部分來說我覺得你也算是教育者啊我師範大學畢業\n\n20\n00:07:33,925 --> 00:08:02,612\n我們曾經在坐這個指風車保麗回家這個故事也是你寫的啊我寫過蠻多童話故事這部也是在教育我們的孩子對那如何將這個傳統記憶現在我要提到的能夠也變成一個教育變成是一個文化的教育這部分我希望教育部不只是砸錢那能不能在體制上或者是在具體的政策上讓傳統記憶能夠被看到這個我們一起加油可以嗎可以啊\n\n21\n00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:24,178\n另外我要跟部長再探討的是這個央廣涉嫌這個炸零我想在前立委這個前因後果其實您大概都知道啦前立委李德維曾質詢這個央廣炸零的一個爭議那時任的文化部長李永德呢也表示不滿意央廣現在的行政調查因此\n\n22\n00:08:24,818 --> 00:08:47,995\n外聘會計事務所做查核並承諾最終交給這個報告給立法院然而現在這些報告被列為了機密文件最終會送到立法院我想部長我想請問你這個文化部對於央廣調查的報告列為機密的決策是否知情文化部身為督導的單位有沒有去了解所有的狀況\n\n23\n00:08:52,915 --> 00:09:19,995\n因為這件事情真的隔滿久的我知道之後我是開始了解整個過程是那在文化部的立場是很快的就要求第三方去調查調查出來發現有問題之後直接送檢調所以這個東西還在檢調單位在查然後當時的文化部2021年開始有要求央管改進內通制度還有會計查核制度有建立一個比較完善的透明的檢查方法\n\n24\n00:09:21,116 --> 00:09:39,032\n2021到現在我想改善蠻多的改善蠻多的那這一份報告我剛剛說的齁您作為文化部長督導單位齁你看起來有去了解了但是我們都知道這個案件被列為機密案件這個合理嗎你是否會督促央廣去解除這個機密的等級並依法\n\n25\n00:09:39,312 --> 00:09:55,913\n提供報告送交立法院供國人供所有立法委員來瞭解這份報告的調查是國家補助資金的流向我先再講這個是內部有無福報跟貪污的情勢並不是國防外交國安事項\n\n26\n00:09:57,074 --> 00:10:24,435\n如果今天是國防外交國安事項我可以尊重我覺得你去使用機密資料處理辦法來規避現階段根本不屬於國安事項的話我覺得部長您的態度是要不要公佈他已經公佈了就是有關您剛才講的比較那個國安的東西我想他已經解除了他已經正式對外全部公佈全部嗎前幾天的新聞前幾天的新聞還有報出來喔\n\n27\n00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:48,890\n這個我是不是請董事長跟你解釋因為我們董事長在現場好跟委員報告這個資料呢調查報告在去各自去識別化之後向所有關心的委員都公布了那前幾天新聞你有看到嗎看到了那您覺得呢我們覺得非常的遺憾針對過去曾經有\n\n28\n00:10:51,903 --> 00:11:20,262\n不妥的情況我們實在是您大聲一點好嗎對不起好的我個人對過去曾經有過的不妥的行為非常的遺憾但是也必須向委員報告在這幾年當中已經完全改善而且現在文化部針對這個案子還在管控當中我們是每年用放大鏡在做檢視是不是改善那目前為止沒有新的情況\n\n29\n00:11:20,982 --> 00:11:36,176\n所以我相信英廣現在是一個很認真負責的在對待這件事情董事長我無意刁難喔但是這些資料都是人民的辛苦納稅錢那有涉嫌這樣子的一個狀況國人都很關心我們都說錢很重要\n\n30\n00:11:36,736 --> 00:12:02,898\n剛剛每個委員都在關注不管所提到的相關預算問題我想預算不外乎要監督那現在有這樣子的涉嫌有可能乍臨甚至是福報的一個狀況你們內部也有調查過的確是有這樣子的遺憾所以你說很遺憾嘛對不對所以在面臨這樣子的高度檢視跟監督的時候是有其必要性的對吧是好謝謝那我想所有的資料應該都要坦誠報告啦那最後我想請問一下這個部長\n\n31\n00:12:04,431 --> 00:12:29,070\n部長對於文化部我們上次在審預算的時候這個國漫館還記得嗎國漫館我們在審理這樣子的總共五千萬的一個預算的時候最後凍結是五百萬那當時我們所提到不外乎幾個事項我所關注的第一國漫館到底現在所面臨到的就是無障礙措施以及跟台灣漫畫家的合作以及文創\n\n32\n00:12:30,191 --> 00:12:57,265\n能夠進駐更多的一些廠商甚至是比照更多年輕時下大家對於國漫或者是日本韓國的漫畫相關的銷售模式我說的是銷售模式那還有最重要的是休憩空間的改善當時也獲得許多不是我們同黨同志也都一起來戰下因為大家覺得所謂的無障礙非常重要\n\n33\n00:12:57,805 --> 00:13:10,376\n那現在已經有凍結預算了那目前國慢館有沒有準備要來送審凍結解凍那目前無障礙的改善以及我們所當時建議的進度如何\n\n34\n00:13:11,516 --> 00:13:34,986\n我最近去看的感覺是他完全已經改善這個無障礙然後最近我覺得國漫館做的活動跟過去比起來是非常多包括日本的議員古路歸斯他帶著幾個議員還來參觀國漫館想知道台灣的國家怎麼去建立一個漫畫中心我們當初很快的蓋好這個之後\n\n35\n00:13:35,886 --> 00:14:02,452\n內部的調整您剛剛講的所有的問題都是對的就是我們要怎麼樣去增加展覽空間我們怎麼去保存文物我們怎麼去推廣我們的漫畫這個我們一直在加緊腳步在做上次還有講休憩包括很多的一些親子家庭來到休憩空間的不足還有我們說到的是有所謂的扭蛋的方式去呈現的銷售模式或者是文創的入住其實在當下我們都有提到\n\n36\n00:14:02,992 --> 00:14:18,120\n那我們希望的是都希望國慢能夠更好以及國慢館的一個設施運作的時候能夠能有所提升那我要講的是說如果剛剛你所說的你們都準備好了也都有改善了我覺得這個部分的解凍案部長\n\n37\n00:14:18,780 --> 00:14:34,387\n您有預計什麼時候可以面臨這樣子的一個解凍案可以趕快送神嗎當然如果你有意願你也準備好了我們自己也有趙偉啊我們也可以跟趙偉講希望他排案啊來幫忙協助啊那這部分你已經準備好了嗎我問問看你準備了嗎可以啊\n\n38\n00:14:36,912 --> 00:14:57,071\n其實剛才回到解凍案的問題我們個別個別都在朝著要解凍的那個東西在寫那我剛才有解釋過解凍的理由還有我們要寫的過程為什麼我們有點猶豫因為我們前面在審預算的過程中我的經驗很怕再被羞辱一次\n\n39\n00:14:59,195 --> 00:15:24,674\n我想用羞辱這個言詞非常的嚴厲但沒關係我們都是希望這個國家好我們都希望國慢管能夠更好相信你自己也相信我們在對於這個監督的過程當中都是希望朝向更好的一個方向我想在基本上我剛剛所講的就是很簡單最後趙偉要站起來了對於無障礙空間的一個改善對於休憩空間的一個改善對於台灣的漫畫家\n\n40\n00:15:26,815 --> 00:15:50,589\n的合作能夠有更多元甚至是二手漫畫的交流以及銷售方式的文創能夠更加的入住這個部分是當然見仁見智但是如果有朝向這個方向我們都希望能夠朝這個方向來努力的時候就是樂觀其成我們會來協助但是我覺得不需要去擔憂嘛那這個部分一起來努力可以嗎\n\n41\n00:15:51,129 --> 00:16:11,636\n我覺得羅委員對我們的漫畫博物館這麼關心我非常高興因為我自己對於漫畫也充滿了覺得我們在最近的這幾年看到我們的台漫起來我心裡也非常急切我希望羅委員協助我們爭取預算還有一切一切的我們一起來做好嗎\n\n42\n00:16:12,116 --> 00:16:26,646\n最後十秒我們一定會協助只要您的政策是方向是對的我想這個過程中很激烈有火花但是結果是希望朝向正面的我們都是為這個國家努力為文化努力為國慢關努力一起加油謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9602\t36260\t好 謝謝趙薇 有請部長好 有請部長柏惟你好部長好 部長想跟你探討一下這個文化傳承的一個布袋戲想跟你請問一下這幾個人物那我們一起來瞭解一下 第一個部長您知道這是誰嗎這實驗文啊欸 亞修車\n38119\t59239\t夜小叉 夜燒車我是故意這樣講 假使因為我那裡笑的因為我們年齡差太多啦沒有沒有沒有 我們不會去探討啦不會去做這樣子的一個我們沒有任何去調侃的意思啦一起探討 一起加油第二個 第二個\n61277\t85283\t我剛剛聽台底下人好像蠻多共鳴是你們都知道嗎那第二個部長不是不是不是硬錫琳硬錫琳我們碧琪琳喔硬詩人第三個來來來盡量回答看看沒關係沒關係\n91578\t107901\t太陽王啊有太陽王這個角色嗎我先跟你講啦這個拿來考我我也不知道我們不要說自己也要坦承啦但是這個是野兔林野兔林第四個\n119977\t141053\t唉唷 下面有人唸出來喔報告部長灰熊鹿 非常女第五個這個已經是非常非常知名的了我本來知道 我看到你我很緊張就忘記了\n142164\t170238\t你不覺得今天我氣氛盡可能的就是大家很平和嗎我好緊張耶授還金授還真 授還金好來 第六個第六個其實真的蠻簡單的長進人啦 最怕人再來 第七個你講過的還要冷氣 還要冷氣啦那第八個他算是也蠻常出現的\n171587\t197621\t三個字有人打帕斯嗎 可以打帕斯沒關係阿桑塞啦不是阿桑塞 金雞仙那部長這樣子喔其實八個布袋戲的人物啊無形的文化資產那當然我坦白講連我要回答的時候有時候都非常的吃緊包括台底下大家一起聽到那我要講的是說今天答對\n198841\t223739\t沒有得分答錯也不應該有處罰但是我們要講的是背後的一個含義我們希望在面臨現階段布袋戲的一個成長一直在緊縮30歲以下的年輕人搞不好還沒看過布袋戲但是我覺得布袋戲在台灣來說是一個非常重要的在整個粉絲跟客群一直在減少藝術傳承也都出現了斷層\n225040\t250048\t那以及傳統記憶面臨消失的風險我們應該來共同的來努力但是我們要看到在台灣布袋戲竟然竟然竟然在日本是成長的台灣與日本在合作的這個東離劍遊記吸引了大批日本人關注布袋戲部長日本反而比台灣更關注布袋戲\n250788\t256570\t那台灣作為這個布袋戲最重要的一個文化標誌我們該怎麼辦您覺得呢\n257540\t282607\t我覺得我們回到本土文化裡面像歌仔戲跟布袋戲是絕對絕對第一重要所以我們在文化部其實我們有支持在雲林蓋了一個布袋部的傳習中心然後我們自己很多計畫是包括補助很多團體包括兒童團體裡面的繼續延續布袋戲的表演譬如說雲林有個\n283647\t307710\t藝文教育扎根計畫我們就大概補助了3840萬所以像這個東西我以為你講的非常重要因為我剛剛跟你講這些人的名字的時候其實我童年我在萬華長大我每天上學就看到布偶的製作布偶怎麼製作怎麼畫臉怎麼畫臉怎麼做衣服他絕對是一個我們全力要推廣的\n307990\t335874\t也是你成長過程的一個經歷對不對所以可以認同一起來幫布袋戲再繼續的扎根推廣那當然我沒有說你沒有補助我們都知道文化部在這個部分的不管是無形的文化資產以及我們傳統的記憶是有在努力的可是我要講的是說部長在你成長的時代一群學生興起創作民歌改變了國語這一個樂壇的一個制式化\n336795\t340526\t現在民歌傳唱50年了你自己有沒有自己很熟悉的民歌\n342823\t367716\t我寫過民歌我寫的最有名的一個民歌叫做跨父追日是李建復唱的跨父追日然後我寫過很多民歌跟陳陽合作是所以我是一個我沒聽過啊因為我可能對我來說可能是橄欖樹啊所以我因為年齡差太多所以你剛剛問我對民歌熟不熟其實我就是民歌創作者謝謝你好險你沒有考我民歌不然應該我也會像你那樣因為我實在太老了所以\n368496\t387766\t但是我要講的是說民歌傳上50年政府在補助流行音樂的時候或許也都一直在努力的在民歌的推廣那也都有補助民歌但是聽眾如果老了我們是不是就應該要放棄這個其實讓民眾去有一個很大的一個反思那文化部沒有放棄\n389146\t405059\t應該一起繼續努力但是我們要講的是不只是給予補助如何在教育的部分不要失去這個寶貴的偶戲一個文化布袋戲的一個扎根教育以及從國小 國中 高中要怎麼來做不只是文化的保存剛剛你說有這個管項嘛\n407240\t420095\t那我們在這個文化的教育要怎麼樣來加強我想強調的是教育體系對布袋戲的一個傳承重要性而不是把布袋戲當作是短期的或者是活動式的或者是單純觀賞的我覺得這個都不夠長久如何創造一個在現在21世紀新的文化\n425822\t450668\t但是是傳統的技藝我覺得在這一次日本跟台灣合作的東離建郵寄它去達到了這樣的效果所以讓日本的這個年輕人開始重視那我們是不是一起能夠來開始規劃來這個部分文化部加一點力呢我非常贊成因為我們總是要選擇幾個屬於我們台灣自己特有的文化來其實某部分來說我覺得你也算是教育者啊我師範大學畢業\n453925\t482612\t我們曾經在坐這個指風車保麗回家這個故事也是你寫的啊我寫過蠻多童話故事這部也是在教育我們的孩子對那如何將這個傳統記憶現在我要提到的能夠也變成一個教育變成是一個文化的教育這部分我希望教育部不只是砸錢那能不能在體制上或者是在具體的政策上讓傳統記憶能夠被看到這個我們一起加油可以嗎可以啊\n484760\t504178\t另外我要跟部長再探討的是這個央廣涉嫌這個炸零我想在前立委這個前因後果其實您大概都知道啦前立委李德維曾質詢這個央廣炸零的一個爭議那時任的文化部長李永德呢也表示不滿意央廣現在的行政調查因此\n504818\t527995\t外聘會計事務所做查核並承諾最終交給這個報告給立法院然而現在這些報告被列為了機密文件最終會送到立法院我想部長我想請問你這個文化部對於央廣調查的報告列為機密的決策是否知情文化部身為督導的單位有沒有去了解所有的狀況\n532915\t559995\t因為這件事情真的隔滿久的我知道之後我是開始了解整個過程是那在文化部的立場是很快的就要求第三方去調查調查出來發現有問題之後直接送檢調所以這個東西還在檢調單位在查然後當時的文化部2021年開始有要求央管改進內通制度還有會計查核制度有建立一個比較完善的透明的檢查方法\n561116\t579032\t2021到現在我想改善蠻多的改善蠻多的那這一份報告我剛剛說的齁您作為文化部長督導單位齁你看起來有去了解了但是我們都知道這個案件被列為機密案件這個合理嗎你是否會督促央廣去解除這個機密的等級並依法\n579312\t595913\t提供報告送交立法院供國人供所有立法委員來瞭解這份報告的調查是國家補助資金的流向我先再講這個是內部有無福報跟貪污的情勢並不是國防外交國安事項\n597074\t624435\t如果今天是國防外交國安事項我可以尊重我覺得你去使用機密資料處理辦法來規避現階段根本不屬於國安事項的話我覺得部長您的態度是要不要公佈他已經公佈了就是有關您剛才講的比較那個國安的東西我想他已經解除了他已經正式對外全部公佈全部嗎前幾天的新聞前幾天的新聞還有報出來喔\n626559\t648890\t這個我是不是請董事長跟你解釋因為我們董事長在現場好跟委員報告這個資料呢調查報告在去各自去識別化之後向所有關心的委員都公布了那前幾天新聞你有看到嗎看到了那您覺得呢我們覺得非常的遺憾針對過去曾經有\n651903\t680262\t不妥的情況 我們實在是 您大聲一點好嗎 對不起好的 我個人對過去曾經有過的不妥的行為非常的遺憾但是也必須向委員報告在這幾年當中已經完全改善而且現在文化部針對這個案子還在管控當中我們是每年用放大鏡在做檢視是不是改善那目前為止沒有新的情況\n680982\t696176\t所以我相信英廣現在是一個很認真負責的在對待這件事情董事長我無意刁難喔但是這些資料都是人民的辛苦納稅錢那有涉嫌這樣子的一個狀況國人都很關心我們都說錢很重要\n696736\t722898\t剛剛每個委員都在關注不管所提到的相關預算問題我想預算不外乎要監督那現在有這樣子的涉嫌有可能乍臨甚至是福報的一個狀況你們內部也有調查過的確是有這樣子的遺憾所以你說很遺憾嘛對不對所以在面臨這樣子的高度檢視跟監督的時候是有其必要性的對吧是好謝謝那我想所有的資料應該都要坦誠報告啦那最後我想請問一下這個部長\n724431\t749070\t部長對於文化部我們上次在審預算的時候這個國漫館還記得嗎國漫館我們在審理這樣子的總共五千萬的一個預算的時候最後凍結是五百萬那當時我們所提到不外乎幾個事項我所關注的第一國漫館到底現在所面臨到的就是無障礙措施以及跟台灣漫畫家的合作以及文創\n750191\t777265\t能夠進駐更多的一些廠商甚至是比照更多年輕時下大家對於國漫或者是日本韓國的漫畫相關的銷售模式我說的是銷售模式那還有最重要的是休憩空間的改善當時也獲得許多不是我們同黨同志也都一起來戰下因為大家覺得所謂的無障礙非常重要\n777805\t790376\t那現在已經有凍結預算了那目前國慢館有沒有準備要來送審凍結解凍那目前無障礙的改善以及我們所當時建議的進度如何\n791516\t814986\t我最近去看的感覺是他完全已經改善這個無障礙然後最近我覺得國漫館做的活動跟過去比起來是非常多包括日本的議員古路歸斯他帶著幾個議員還來參觀國漫館想知道台灣的國家怎麼去建立一個漫畫中心我們當初很快的蓋好這個之後\n815886\t842452\t內部的調整您剛剛講的所有的問題都是對的就是我們要怎麼樣去增加展覽空間我們怎麼去保存文物我們怎麼去推廣我們的漫畫這個我們一直在加緊腳步在做上次還有講休憩包括很多的一些親子家庭來到休憩空間的不足還有我們說到的是有所謂的扭蛋的方式去呈現的銷售模式或者是文創的入住其實在當下我們都有提到\n842992\t858120\t那我們希望的是都希望國慢能夠更好以及國慢館的一個設施運作的時候能夠能有所提升那我要講的是說如果剛剛你所說的你們都準備好了也都有改善了我覺得這個部分的解凍案部長\n858780\t874387\t您有預計什麼時候可以面臨這樣子的一個解凍案可以趕快送神嗎當然如果你有意願你也準備好了我們自己也有趙偉啊我們也可以跟趙偉講希望他排案啊來幫忙協助啊那這部分你已經準備好了嗎我問問看你準備了嗎可以啊\n876912\t897071\t其實剛才回到解凍案的問題我們個別個別都在朝著要解凍的那個東西在寫那我剛才有解釋過解凍的理由還有我們要寫的過程為什麼我們有點猶豫因為我們前面在審預算的過程中我的經驗很怕再被羞辱一次\n899195\t924674\t我想用羞辱這個言詞非常的嚴厲但沒關係我們都是希望這個國家好我們都希望國慢管能夠更好相信你自己也相信我們在對於這個監督的過程當中都是希望朝向更好的一個方向我想在基本上我剛剛所講的就是很簡單最後趙偉要站起來了對於無障礙空間的一個改善對於休憩空間的一個改善對於台灣的漫畫家\n926815\t950589\t的合作能夠有更多元甚至是二手漫畫的交流以及銷售方式的文創能夠更加的入住這個部分是當然見仁見智但是如果有朝向這個方向我們都希望能夠朝這個方向來努力的時候就是樂觀其成我們會來協助但是我覺得不需要去擔憂嘛那這個部分一起來努力可以嗎\n951129\t971636\t我覺得羅委員對我們的漫畫博物館這麼關心我非常高興因為我自己對於漫畫也充滿了覺得我們在最近的這幾年看到我們的台漫起來我心裡也非常急切我希望羅委員協助我們爭取預算還有一切一切的我們一起來做好嗎\n972116\t986646\t最後十秒我們一定會協助只要您的政策是方向是對的我想這個過程中很激烈有火花但是結果是希望朝向正面的我們都是為這個國家努力為文化努力為國慢關努力一起加油謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝趙薇 有請部長好 有請部長柏惟你好部長好 部長想跟你探討一下這個文化傳承的一個布袋戲想跟你請問一下這幾個人物那我們一起來瞭解一下 第一個部長您知道這是誰嗎這實驗文啊欸 亞修車\n夜小叉 夜燒車我是故意這樣講 假使因為我那裡笑的因為我們年齡差太多啦沒有沒有沒有 我們不會去探討啦不會去做這樣子的一個我們沒有任何去調侃的意思啦一起探討 一起加油第二個 第二個\n我剛剛聽台底下人好像蠻多共鳴是你們都知道嗎那第二個部長不是不是不是硬錫琳硬錫琳我們碧琪琳喔硬詩人第三個來來來盡量回答看看沒關係沒關係\n太陽王啊有太陽王這個角色嗎我先跟你講啦這個拿來考我我也不知道我們不要說自己也要坦承啦但是這個是野兔林野兔林第四個\n唉唷 下面有人唸出來喔報告部長灰熊鹿 非常女第五個這個已經是非常非常知名的了我本來知道 我看到你我很緊張就忘記了\n你不覺得今天我氣氛盡可能的就是大家很平和嗎我好緊張耶授還金授還真 授還金好來 第六個第六個其實真的蠻簡單的長進人啦 最怕人再來 第七個你講過的還要冷氣 還要冷氣啦那第八個他算是也蠻常出現的\n三個字有人打帕斯嗎 可以打帕斯沒關係阿桑塞啦不是阿桑塞 金雞仙那部長這樣子喔其實八個布袋戲的人物啊無形的文化資產那當然我坦白講連我要回答的時候有時候都非常的吃緊包括台底下大家一起聽到那我要講的是說今天答對\n沒有得分答錯也不應該有處罰但是我們要講的是背後的一個含義我們希望在面臨現階段布袋戲的一個成長一直在緊縮30歲以下的年輕人搞不好還沒看過布袋戲但是我覺得布袋戲在台灣來說是一個非常重要的在整個粉絲跟客群一直在減少藝術傳承也都出現了斷層\n那以及傳統記憶面臨消失的風險我們應該來共同的來努力但是我們要看到在台灣布袋戲竟然竟然竟然在日本是成長的台灣與日本在合作的這個東離劍遊記吸引了大批日本人關注布袋戲部長日本反而比台灣更關注布袋戲\n那台灣作為這個布袋戲最重要的一個文化標誌我們該怎麼辦您覺得呢\n我覺得我們回到本土文化裡面像歌仔戲跟布袋戲是絕對絕對第一重要所以我們在文化部其實我們有支持在雲林蓋了一個布袋部的傳習中心然後我們自己很多計畫是包括補助很多團體包括兒童團體裡面的繼續延續布袋戲的表演譬如說雲林有個\n藝文教育扎根計畫我們就大概補助了3840萬所以像這個東西我以為你講的非常重要因為我剛剛跟你講這些人的名字的時候其實我童年我在萬華長大我每天上學就看到布偶的製作布偶怎麼製作怎麼畫臉怎麼畫臉怎麼做衣服他絕對是一個我們全力要推廣的\n也是你成長過程的一個經歷對不對所以可以認同一起來幫布袋戲再繼續的扎根推廣那當然我沒有說你沒有補助我們都知道文化部在這個部分的不管是無形的文化資產以及我們傳統的記憶是有在努力的可是我要講的是說部長在你成長的時代一群學生興起創作民歌改變了國語這一個樂壇的一個制式化\n現在民歌傳唱50年了你自己有沒有自己很熟悉的民歌\n我寫過民歌我寫的最有名的一個民歌叫做跨父追日是李建復唱的跨父追日然後我寫過很多民歌跟陳陽合作是所以我是一個我沒聽過啊因為我可能對我來說可能是橄欖樹啊所以我因為年齡差太多所以你剛剛問我對民歌熟不熟其實我就是民歌創作者謝謝你好險你沒有考我民歌不然應該我也會像你那樣因為我實在太老了所以\n但是我要講的是說民歌傳上50年政府在補助流行音樂的時候或許也都一直在努力的在民歌的推廣那也都有補助民歌但是聽眾如果老了我們是不是就應該要放棄這個其實讓民眾去有一個很大的一個反思那文化部沒有放棄\n應該一起繼續努力但是我們要講的是不只是給予補助如何在教育的部分不要失去這個寶貴的偶戲一個文化布袋戲的一個扎根教育以及從國小 國中 高中要怎麼來做不只是文化的保存剛剛你說有這個管項嘛\n那我們在這個文化的教育要怎麼樣來加強我想強調的是教育體系對布袋戲的一個傳承重要性而不是把布袋戲當作是短期的或者是活動式的或者是單純觀賞的我覺得這個都不夠長久如何創造一個在現在21世紀新的文化\n但是是傳統的技藝我覺得在這一次日本跟台灣合作的東離建郵寄它去達到了這樣的效果所以讓日本的這個年輕人開始重視那我們是不是一起能夠來開始規劃來這個部分文化部加一點力呢我非常贊成因為我們總是要選擇幾個屬於我們台灣自己特有的文化來其實某部分來說我覺得你也算是教育者啊我師範大學畢業\n我們曾經在坐這個指風車保麗回家這個故事也是你寫的啊我寫過蠻多童話故事這部也是在教育我們的孩子對那如何將這個傳統記憶現在我要提到的能夠也變成一個教育變成是一個文化的教育這部分我希望教育部不只是砸錢那能不能在體制上或者是在具體的政策上讓傳統記憶能夠被看到這個我們一起加油可以嗎可以啊\n另外我要跟部長再探討的是這個央廣涉嫌這個炸零我想在前立委這個前因後果其實您大概都知道啦前立委李德維曾質詢這個央廣炸零的一個爭議那時任的文化部長李永德呢也表示不滿意央廣現在的行政調查因此\n外聘會計事務所做查核並承諾最終交給這個報告給立法院然而現在這些報告被列為了機密文件最終會送到立法院我想部長我想請問你這個文化部對於央廣調查的報告列為機密的決策是否知情文化部身為督導的單位有沒有去了解所有的狀況\n因為這件事情真的隔滿久的我知道之後我是開始了解整個過程是那在文化部的立場是很快的就要求第三方去調查調查出來發現有問題之後直接送檢調所以這個東西還在檢調單位在查然後當時的文化部2021年開始有要求央管改進內通制度還有會計查核制度有建立一個比較完善的透明的檢查方法\n2021到現在我想改善蠻多的改善蠻多的那這一份報告我剛剛說的齁您作為文化部長督導單位齁你看起來有去了解了但是我們都知道這個案件被列為機密案件這個合理嗎你是否會督促央廣去解除這個機密的等級並依法\n提供報告送交立法院供國人供所有立法委員來瞭解這份報告的調查是國家補助資金的流向我先再講這個是內部有無福報跟貪污的情勢並不是國防外交國安事項\n如果今天是國防外交國安事項我可以尊重我覺得你去使用機密資料處理辦法來規避現階段根本不屬於國安事項的話我覺得部長您的態度是要不要公佈他已經公佈了就是有關您剛才講的比較那個國安的東西我想他已經解除了他已經正式對外全部公佈全部嗎前幾天的新聞前幾天的新聞還有報出來喔\n這個我是不是請董事長跟你解釋因為我們董事長在現場好跟委員報告這個資料呢調查報告在去各自去識別化之後向所有關心的委員都公布了那前幾天新聞你有看到嗎看到了那您覺得呢我們覺得非常的遺憾針對過去曾經有\n不妥的情況 我們實在是 您大聲一點好嗎 對不起好的 我個人對過去曾經有過的不妥的行為非常的遺憾但是也必須向委員報告在這幾年當中已經完全改善而且現在文化部針對這個案子還在管控當中我們是每年用放大鏡在做檢視是不是改善那目前為止沒有新的情況\n所以我相信英廣現在是一個很認真負責的在對待這件事情董事長我無意刁難喔但是這些資料都是人民的辛苦納稅錢那有涉嫌這樣子的一個狀況國人都很關心我們都說錢很重要\n剛剛每個委員都在關注不管所提到的相關預算問題我想預算不外乎要監督那現在有這樣子的涉嫌有可能乍臨甚至是福報的一個狀況你們內部也有調查過的確是有這樣子的遺憾所以你說很遺憾嘛對不對所以在面臨這樣子的高度檢視跟監督的時候是有其必要性的對吧是好謝謝那我想所有的資料應該都要坦誠報告啦那最後我想請問一下這個部長\n部長對於文化部我們上次在審預算的時候這個國漫館還記得嗎國漫館我們在審理這樣子的總共五千萬的一個預算的時候最後凍結是五百萬那當時我們所提到不外乎幾個事項我所關注的第一國漫館到底現在所面臨到的就是無障礙措施以及跟台灣漫畫家的合作以及文創\n能夠進駐更多的一些廠商甚至是比照更多年輕時下大家對於國漫或者是日本韓國的漫畫相關的銷售模式我說的是銷售模式那還有最重要的是休憩空間的改善當時也獲得許多不是我們同黨同志也都一起來戰下因為大家覺得所謂的無障礙非常重要\n那現在已經有凍結預算了那目前國慢館有沒有準備要來送審凍結解凍那目前無障礙的改善以及我們所當時建議的進度如何\n我最近去看的感覺是他完全已經改善這個無障礙然後最近我覺得國漫館做的活動跟過去比起來是非常多包括日本的議員古路歸斯他帶著幾個議員還來參觀國漫館想知道台灣的國家怎麼去建立一個漫畫中心我們當初很快的蓋好這個之後\n內部的調整您剛剛講的所有的問題都是對的就是我們要怎麼樣去增加展覽空間我們怎麼去保存文物我們怎麼去推廣我們的漫畫這個我們一直在加緊腳步在做上次還有講休憩包括很多的一些親子家庭來到休憩空間的不足還有我們說到的是有所謂的扭蛋的方式去呈現的銷售模式或者是文創的入住其實在當下我們都有提到\n那我們希望的是都希望國慢能夠更好以及國慢館的一個設施運作的時候能夠能有所提升那我要講的是說如果剛剛你所說的你們都準備好了也都有改善了我覺得這個部分的解凍案部長\n您有預計什麼時候可以面臨這樣子的一個解凍案可以趕快送神嗎當然如果你有意願你也準備好了我們自己也有趙偉啊我們也可以跟趙偉講希望他排案啊來幫忙協助啊那這部分你已經準備好了嗎我問問看你準備了嗎可以啊\n其實剛才回到解凍案的問題我們個別個別都在朝著要解凍的那個東西在寫那我剛才有解釋過解凍的理由還有我們要寫的過程為什麼我們有點猶豫因為我們前面在審預算的過程中我的經驗很怕再被羞辱一次\n我想用羞辱這個言詞非常的嚴厲但沒關係我們都是希望這個國家好我們都希望國慢管能夠更好相信你自己也相信我們在對於這個監督的過程當中都是希望朝向更好的一個方向我想在基本上我剛剛所講的就是很簡單最後趙偉要站起來了對於無障礙空間的一個改善對於休憩空間的一個改善對於台灣的漫畫家\n的合作能夠有更多元甚至是二手漫畫的交流以及銷售方式的文創能夠更加的入住這個部分是當然見仁見智但是如果有朝向這個方向我們都希望能夠朝這個方向來努力的時候就是樂觀其成我們會來協助但是我覺得不需要去擔憂嘛那這個部分一起來努力可以嗎\n我覺得羅委員對我們的漫畫博物館這麼關心我非常高興因為我自己對於漫畫也充滿了覺得我們在最近的這幾年看到我們的台漫起來我心裡也非常急切我希望羅委員協助我們爭取預算還有一切一切的我們一起來做好嗎\n最後十秒我們一定會協助只要您的政策是方向是對的我想這個過程中很激烈有火花但是結果是希望朝向正面的我們都是為這個國家努力為文化努力為國慢關努力一起加油謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.602 --> 00:36.260\n好謝謝趙薇有請部長好有請部長柏惟你好部長好部長想跟你探討一下這個文化傳承的一個布袋戲想跟你請問一下這幾個人物那我們一起來瞭解一下第一個部長您知道這是誰嗎這實驗文啊欸亞修車\n\n00:38.119 --> 00:59.239\n夜小叉夜燒車我是故意這樣講假使因為我那裡笑的因為我們年齡差太多啦沒有沒有沒有我們不會去探討啦不會去做這樣子的一個我們沒有任何去調侃的意思啦一起探討一起加油第二個第二個\n\n01:01.277 --> 01:25.283\n我剛剛聽台底下人好像蠻多共鳴是你們都知道嗎那第二個部長不是不是不是硬錫琳硬錫琳我們碧琪琳喔硬詩人第三個來來來盡量回答看看沒關係沒關係\n\n01:31.578 --> 01:47.901\n太陽王啊有太陽王這個角色嗎我先跟你講啦這個拿來考我我也不知道我們不要說自己也要坦承啦但是這個是野兔林野兔林第四個\n\n01:59.977 --> 02:21.053\n唉唷下面有人唸出來喔報告部長灰熊鹿非常女第五個這個已經是非常非常知名的了我本來知道我看到你我很緊張就忘記了\n\n02:22.164 --> 02:50.238\n你不覺得今天我氣氛盡可能的就是大家很平和嗎我好緊張耶授還金授還真授還金好來第六個第六個其實真的蠻簡單的長進人啦最怕人再來第七個你講過的還要冷氣還要冷氣啦那第八個他算是也蠻常出現的\n\n02:51.587 --> 03:17.621\n三個字有人打帕斯嗎可以打帕斯沒關係阿桑塞啦不是阿桑塞金雞仙那部長這樣子喔其實八個布袋戲的人物啊無形的文化資產那當然我坦白講連我要回答的時候有時候都非常的吃緊包括台底下大家一起聽到那我要講的是說今天答對\n\n03:18.841 --> 03:43.739\n沒有得分答錯也不應該有處罰但是我們要講的是背後的一個含義我們希望在面臨現階段布袋戲的一個成長一直在緊縮30歲以下的年輕人搞不好還沒看過布袋戲但是我覺得布袋戲在台灣來說是一個非常重要的在整個粉絲跟客群一直在減少藝術傳承也都出現了斷層\n\n03:45.040 --> 04:10.048\n那以及傳統記憶面臨消失的風險我們應該來共同的來努力但是我們要看到在台灣布袋戲竟然竟然竟然在日本是成長的台灣與日本在合作的這個東離劍遊記吸引了大批日本人關注布袋戲部長日本反而比台灣更關注布袋戲\n\n04:10.788 --> 04:16.570\n那台灣作為這個布袋戲最重要的一個文化標誌我們該怎麼辦您覺得呢\n\n04:17.540 --> 04:42.607\n我覺得我們回到本土文化裡面像歌仔戲跟布袋戲是絕對絕對第一重要所以我們在文化部其實我們有支持在雲林蓋了一個布袋部的傳習中心然後我們自己很多計畫是包括補助很多團體包括兒童團體裡面的繼續延續布袋戲的表演譬如說雲林有個\n\n04:43.647 --> 05:07.710\n藝文教育扎根計畫我們就大概補助了3840萬所以像這個東西我以為你講的非常重要因為我剛剛跟你講這些人的名字的時候其實我童年我在萬華長大我每天上學就看到布偶的製作布偶怎麼製作怎麼畫臉怎麼畫臉怎麼做衣服他絕對是一個我們全力要推廣的\n\n05:07.990 --> 05:35.874\n也是你成長過程的一個經歷對不對所以可以認同一起來幫布袋戲再繼續的扎根推廣那當然我沒有說你沒有補助我們都知道文化部在這個部分的不管是無形的文化資產以及我們傳統的記憶是有在努力的可是我要講的是說部長在你成長的時代一群學生興起創作民歌改變了國語這一個樂壇的一個制式化\n\n05:36.795 --> 05:40.526\n現在民歌傳唱50年了你自己有沒有自己很熟悉的民歌\n\n05:42.823 --> 06:07.716\n我寫過民歌我寫的最有名的一個民歌叫做跨父追日是李建復唱的跨父追日然後我寫過很多民歌跟陳陽合作是所以我是一個我沒聽過啊因為我可能對我來說可能是橄欖樹啊所以我因為年齡差太多所以你剛剛問我對民歌熟不熟其實我就是民歌創作者謝謝你好險你沒有考我民歌不然應該我也會像你那樣因為我實在太老了所以\n\n06:08.496 --> 06:27.766\n但是我要講的是說民歌傳上50年政府在補助流行音樂的時候或許也都一直在努力的在民歌的推廣那也都有補助民歌但是聽眾如果老了我們是不是就應該要放棄這個其實讓民眾去有一個很大的一個反思那文化部沒有放棄\n\n06:29.146 --> 06:45.059\n應該一起繼續努力但是我們要講的是不只是給予補助如何在教育的部分不要失去這個寶貴的偶戲一個文化布袋戲的一個扎根教育以及從國小國中高中要怎麼來做不只是文化的保存剛剛你說有這個管項嘛\n\n06:47.240 --> 07:00.095\n那我們在這個文化的教育要怎麼樣來加強我想強調的是教育體系對布袋戲的一個傳承重要性而不是把布袋戲當作是短期的或者是活動式的或者是單純觀賞的我覺得這個都不夠長久如何創造一個在現在21世紀新的文化\n\n07:05.822 --> 07:30.668\n但是是傳統的技藝我覺得在這一次日本跟台灣合作的東離建郵寄它去達到了這樣的效果所以讓日本的這個年輕人開始重視那我們是不是一起能夠來開始規劃來這個部分文化部加一點力呢我非常贊成因為我們總是要選擇幾個屬於我們台灣自己特有的文化來其實某部分來說我覺得你也算是教育者啊我師範大學畢業\n\n07:33.925 --> 08:02.612\n我們曾經在坐這個指風車保麗回家這個故事也是你寫的啊我寫過蠻多童話故事這部也是在教育我們的孩子對那如何將這個傳統記憶現在我要提到的能夠也變成一個教育變成是一個文化的教育這部分我希望教育部不只是砸錢那能不能在體制上或者是在具體的政策上讓傳統記憶能夠被看到這個我們一起加油可以嗎可以啊\n\n08:04.760 --> 08:24.178\n另外我要跟部長再探討的是這個央廣涉嫌這個炸零我想在前立委這個前因後果其實您大概都知道啦前立委李德維曾質詢這個央廣炸零的一個爭議那時任的文化部長李永德呢也表示不滿意央廣現在的行政調查因此\n\n08:24.818 --> 08:47.995\n外聘會計事務所做查核並承諾最終交給這個報告給立法院然而現在這些報告被列為了機密文件最終會送到立法院我想部長我想請問你這個文化部對於央廣調查的報告列為機密的決策是否知情文化部身為督導的單位有沒有去了解所有的狀況\n\n08:52.915 --> 09:19.995\n因為這件事情真的隔滿久的我知道之後我是開始了解整個過程是那在文化部的立場是很快的就要求第三方去調查調查出來發現有問題之後直接送檢調所以這個東西還在檢調單位在查然後當時的文化部2021年開始有要求央管改進內通制度還有會計查核制度有建立一個比較完善的透明的檢查方法\n\n09:21.116 --> 09:39.032\n2021到現在我想改善蠻多的改善蠻多的那這一份報告我剛剛說的齁您作為文化部長督導單位齁你看起來有去了解了但是我們都知道這個案件被列為機密案件這個合理嗎你是否會督促央廣去解除這個機密的等級並依法\n\n09:39.312 --> 09:55.913\n提供報告送交立法院供國人供所有立法委員來瞭解這份報告的調查是國家補助資金的流向我先再講這個是內部有無福報跟貪污的情勢並不是國防外交國安事項\n\n09:57.074 --> 10:24.435\n如果今天是國防外交國安事項我可以尊重我覺得你去使用機密資料處理辦法來規避現階段根本不屬於國安事項的話我覺得部長您的態度是要不要公佈他已經公佈了就是有關您剛才講的比較那個國安的東西我想他已經解除了他已經正式對外全部公佈全部嗎前幾天的新聞前幾天的新聞還有報出來喔\n\n10:26.559 --> 10:48.890\n這個我是不是請董事長跟你解釋因為我們董事長在現場好跟委員報告這個資料呢調查報告在去各自去識別化之後向所有關心的委員都公布了那前幾天新聞你有看到嗎看到了那您覺得呢我們覺得非常的遺憾針對過去曾經有\n\n10:51.903 --> 11:20.262\n不妥的情況我們實在是您大聲一點好嗎對不起好的我個人對過去曾經有過的不妥的行為非常的遺憾但是也必須向委員報告在這幾年當中已經完全改善而且現在文化部針對這個案子還在管控當中我們是每年用放大鏡在做檢視是不是改善那目前為止沒有新的情況\n\n11:20.982 --> 11:36.176\n所以我相信英廣現在是一個很認真負責的在對待這件事情董事長我無意刁難喔但是這些資料都是人民的辛苦納稅錢那有涉嫌這樣子的一個狀況國人都很關心我們都說錢很重要\n\n11:36.736 --> 12:02.898\n剛剛每個委員都在關注不管所提到的相關預算問題我想預算不外乎要監督那現在有這樣子的涉嫌有可能乍臨甚至是福報的一個狀況你們內部也有調查過的確是有這樣子的遺憾所以你說很遺憾嘛對不對所以在面臨這樣子的高度檢視跟監督的時候是有其必要性的對吧是好謝謝那我想所有的資料應該都要坦誠報告啦那最後我想請問一下這個部長\n\n12:04.431 --> 12:29.070\n部長對於文化部我們上次在審預算的時候這個國漫館還記得嗎國漫館我們在審理這樣子的總共五千萬的一個預算的時候最後凍結是五百萬那當時我們所提到不外乎幾個事項我所關注的第一國漫館到底現在所面臨到的就是無障礙措施以及跟台灣漫畫家的合作以及文創\n\n12:30.191 --> 12:57.265\n能夠進駐更多的一些廠商甚至是比照更多年輕時下大家對於國漫或者是日本韓國的漫畫相關的銷售模式我說的是銷售模式那還有最重要的是休憩空間的改善當時也獲得許多不是我們同黨同志也都一起來戰下因為大家覺得所謂的無障礙非常重要\n\n12:57.805 --> 13:10.376\n那現在已經有凍結預算了那目前國慢館有沒有準備要來送審凍結解凍那目前無障礙的改善以及我們所當時建議的進度如何\n\n13:11.516 --> 13:34.986\n我最近去看的感覺是他完全已經改善這個無障礙然後最近我覺得國漫館做的活動跟過去比起來是非常多包括日本的議員古路歸斯他帶著幾個議員還來參觀國漫館想知道台灣的國家怎麼去建立一個漫畫中心我們當初很快的蓋好這個之後\n\n13:35.886 --> 14:02.452\n內部的調整您剛剛講的所有的問題都是對的就是我們要怎麼樣去增加展覽空間我們怎麼去保存文物我們怎麼去推廣我們的漫畫這個我們一直在加緊腳步在做上次還有講休憩包括很多的一些親子家庭來到休憩空間的不足還有我們說到的是有所謂的扭蛋的方式去呈現的銷售模式或者是文創的入住其實在當下我們都有提到\n\n14:02.992 --> 14:18.120\n那我們希望的是都希望國慢能夠更好以及國慢館的一個設施運作的時候能夠能有所提升那我要講的是說如果剛剛你所說的你們都準備好了也都有改善了我覺得這個部分的解凍案部長\n\n14:18.780 --> 14:34.387\n您有預計什麼時候可以面臨這樣子的一個解凍案可以趕快送神嗎當然如果你有意願你也準備好了我們自己也有趙偉啊我們也可以跟趙偉講希望他排案啊來幫忙協助啊那這部分你已經準備好了嗎我問問看你準備了嗎可以啊\n\n14:36.912 --> 14:57.071\n其實剛才回到解凍案的問題我們個別個別都在朝著要解凍的那個東西在寫那我剛才有解釋過解凍的理由還有我們要寫的過程為什麼我們有點猶豫因為我們前面在審預算的過程中我的經驗很怕再被羞辱一次\n\n14:59.195 --> 15:24.674\n我想用羞辱這個言詞非常的嚴厲但沒關係我們都是希望這個國家好我們都希望國慢管能夠更好相信你自己也相信我們在對於這個監督的過程當中都是希望朝向更好的一個方向我想在基本上我剛剛所講的就是很簡單最後趙偉要站起來了對於無障礙空間的一個改善對於休憩空間的一個改善對於台灣的漫畫家\n\n15:26.815 --> 15:50.589\n的合作能夠有更多元甚至是二手漫畫的交流以及銷售方式的文創能夠更加的入住這個部分是當然見仁見智但是如果有朝向這個方向我們都希望能夠朝這個方向來努力的時候就是樂觀其成我們會來協助但是我覺得不需要去擔憂嘛那這個部分一起來努力可以嗎\n\n15:51.129 --> 16:11.636\n我覺得羅委員對我們的漫畫博物館這麼關心我非常高興因為我自己對於漫畫也充滿了覺得我們在最近的這幾年看到我們的台漫起來我心裡也非常急切我希望羅委員協助我們爭取預算還有一切一切的我們一起來做好嗎\n\n16:12.116 --> 16:26.646\n最後十秒我們一定會協助只要您的政策是方向是對的我想這個過程中很激烈有火花但是結果是希望朝向正面的我們都是為這個國家努力為文化努力為國慢關努力一起加油謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.602,"end":36.26,"text":"好 謝謝趙薇 有請部長好 有請部長柏惟你好部長好 部長想跟你探討一下這個文化傳承的一個布袋戲想跟你請問一下這幾個人物那我們一起來瞭解一下 第一個部長您知道這是誰嗎這實驗文啊欸 亞修車"},{"start":38.119,"end":59.239,"text":"夜小叉 夜燒車我是故意這樣講 假使因為我那裡笑的因為我們年齡差太多啦沒有沒有沒有 我們不會去探討啦不會去做這樣子的一個我們沒有任何去調侃的意思啦一起探討 一起加油第二個 第二個"},{"start":61.277,"end":85.283,"text":"我剛剛聽台底下人好像蠻多共鳴是你們都知道嗎那第二個部長不是不是不是硬錫琳硬錫琳我們碧琪琳喔硬詩人第三個來來來盡量回答看看沒關係沒關係"},{"start":91.578,"end":107.901,"text":"太陽王啊有太陽王這個角色嗎我先跟你講啦這個拿來考我我也不知道我們不要說自己也要坦承啦但是這個是野兔林野兔林第四個"},{"start":119.977,"end":141.053,"text":"唉唷 下面有人唸出來喔報告部長灰熊鹿 非常女第五個這個已經是非常非常知名的了我本來知道 我看到你我很緊張就忘記了"},{"start":142.164,"end":170.238,"text":"你不覺得今天我氣氛盡可能的就是大家很平和嗎我好緊張耶授還金授還真 授還金好來 第六個第六個其實真的蠻簡單的長進人啦 最怕人再來 第七個你講過的還要冷氣 還要冷氣啦那第八個他算是也蠻常出現的"},{"start":171.587,"end":197.621,"text":"三個字有人打帕斯嗎 可以打帕斯沒關係阿桑塞啦不是阿桑塞 金雞仙那部長這樣子喔其實八個布袋戲的人物啊無形的文化資產那當然我坦白講連我要回答的時候有時候都非常的吃緊包括台底下大家一起聽到那我要講的是說今天答對"},{"start":198.841,"end":223.739,"text":"沒有得分答錯也不應該有處罰但是我們要講的是背後的一個含義我們希望在面臨現階段布袋戲的一個成長一直在緊縮30歲以下的年輕人搞不好還沒看過布袋戲但是我覺得布袋戲在台灣來說是一個非常重要的在整個粉絲跟客群一直在減少藝術傳承也都出現了斷層"},{"start":225.04,"end":250.048,"text":"那以及傳統記憶面臨消失的風險我們應該來共同的來努力但是我們要看到在台灣布袋戲竟然竟然竟然在日本是成長的台灣與日本在合作的這個東離劍遊記吸引了大批日本人關注布袋戲部長日本反而比台灣更關注布袋戲"},{"start":250.788,"end":256.57,"text":"那台灣作為這個布袋戲最重要的一個文化標誌我們該怎麼辦您覺得呢"},{"start":257.54,"end":282.607,"text":"我覺得我們回到本土文化裡面像歌仔戲跟布袋戲是絕對絕對第一重要所以我們在文化部其實我們有支持在雲林蓋了一個布袋部的傳習中心然後我們自己很多計畫是包括補助很多團體包括兒童團體裡面的繼續延續布袋戲的表演譬如說雲林有個"},{"start":283.647,"end":307.71,"text":"藝文教育扎根計畫我們就大概補助了3840萬所以像這個東西我以為你講的非常重要因為我剛剛跟你講這些人的名字的時候其實我童年我在萬華長大我每天上學就看到布偶的製作布偶怎麼製作怎麼畫臉怎麼畫臉怎麼做衣服他絕對是一個我們全力要推廣的"},{"start":307.99,"end":335.874,"text":"也是你成長過程的一個經歷對不對所以可以認同一起來幫布袋戲再繼續的扎根推廣那當然我沒有說你沒有補助我們都知道文化部在這個部分的不管是無形的文化資產以及我們傳統的記憶是有在努力的可是我要講的是說部長在你成長的時代一群學生興起創作民歌改變了國語這一個樂壇的一個制式化"},{"start":336.795,"end":340.526,"text":"現在民歌傳唱50年了你自己有沒有自己很熟悉的民歌"},{"start":342.823,"end":367.716,"text":"我寫過民歌我寫的最有名的一個民歌叫做跨父追日是李建復唱的跨父追日然後我寫過很多民歌跟陳陽合作是所以我是一個我沒聽過啊因為我可能對我來說可能是橄欖樹啊所以我因為年齡差太多所以你剛剛問我對民歌熟不熟其實我就是民歌創作者謝謝你好險你沒有考我民歌不然應該我也會像你那樣因為我實在太老了所以"},{"start":368.496,"end":387.766,"text":"但是我要講的是說民歌傳上50年政府在補助流行音樂的時候或許也都一直在努力的在民歌的推廣那也都有補助民歌但是聽眾如果老了我們是不是就應該要放棄這個其實讓民眾去有一個很大的一個反思那文化部沒有放棄"},{"start":389.146,"end":405.059,"text":"應該一起繼續努力但是我們要講的是不只是給予補助如何在教育的部分不要失去這個寶貴的偶戲一個文化布袋戲的一個扎根教育以及從國小 國中 高中要怎麼來做不只是文化的保存剛剛你說有這個管項嘛"},{"start":407.24,"end":420.095,"text":"那我們在這個文化的教育要怎麼樣來加強我想強調的是教育體系對布袋戲的一個傳承重要性而不是把布袋戲當作是短期的或者是活動式的或者是單純觀賞的我覺得這個都不夠長久如何創造一個在現在21世紀新的文化"},{"start":425.822,"end":450.668,"text":"但是是傳統的技藝我覺得在這一次日本跟台灣合作的東離建郵寄它去達到了這樣的效果所以讓日本的這個年輕人開始重視那我們是不是一起能夠來開始規劃來這個部分文化部加一點力呢我非常贊成因為我們總是要選擇幾個屬於我們台灣自己特有的文化來其實某部分來說我覺得你也算是教育者啊我師範大學畢業"},{"start":453.925,"end":482.612,"text":"我們曾經在坐這個指風車保麗回家這個故事也是你寫的啊我寫過蠻多童話故事這部也是在教育我們的孩子對那如何將這個傳統記憶現在我要提到的能夠也變成一個教育變成是一個文化的教育這部分我希望教育部不只是砸錢那能不能在體制上或者是在具體的政策上讓傳統記憶能夠被看到這個我們一起加油可以嗎可以啊"},{"start":484.76,"end":504.178,"text":"另外我要跟部長再探討的是這個央廣涉嫌這個炸零我想在前立委這個前因後果其實您大概都知道啦前立委李德維曾質詢這個央廣炸零的一個爭議那時任的文化部長李永德呢也表示不滿意央廣現在的行政調查因此"},{"start":504.818,"end":527.995,"text":"外聘會計事務所做查核並承諾最終交給這個報告給立法院然而現在這些報告被列為了機密文件最終會送到立法院我想部長我想請問你這個文化部對於央廣調查的報告列為機密的決策是否知情文化部身為督導的單位有沒有去了解所有的狀況"},{"start":532.915,"end":559.995,"text":"因為這件事情真的隔滿久的我知道之後我是開始了解整個過程是那在文化部的立場是很快的就要求第三方去調查調查出來發現有問題之後直接送檢調所以這個東西還在檢調單位在查然後當時的文化部2021年開始有要求央管改進內通制度還有會計查核制度有建立一個比較完善的透明的檢查方法"},{"start":561.116,"end":579.032,"text":"2021到現在我想改善蠻多的改善蠻多的那這一份報告我剛剛說的齁您作為文化部長督導單位齁你看起來有去了解了但是我們都知道這個案件被列為機密案件這個合理嗎你是否會督促央廣去解除這個機密的等級並依法"},{"start":579.312,"end":595.913,"text":"提供報告送交立法院供國人供所有立法委員來瞭解這份報告的調查是國家補助資金的流向我先再講這個是內部有無福報跟貪污的情勢並不是國防外交國安事項"},{"start":597.074,"end":624.435,"text":"如果今天是國防外交國安事項我可以尊重我覺得你去使用機密資料處理辦法來規避現階段根本不屬於國安事項的話我覺得部長您的態度是要不要公佈他已經公佈了就是有關您剛才講的比較那個國安的東西我想他已經解除了他已經正式對外全部公佈全部嗎前幾天的新聞前幾天的新聞還有報出來喔"},{"start":626.559,"end":648.89,"text":"這個我是不是請董事長跟你解釋因為我們董事長在現場好跟委員報告這個資料呢調查報告在去各自去識別化之後向所有關心的委員都公布了那前幾天新聞你有看到嗎看到了那您覺得呢我們覺得非常的遺憾針對過去曾經有"},{"start":651.903,"end":680.262,"text":"不妥的情況 我們實在是 您大聲一點好嗎 對不起好的 我個人對過去曾經有過的不妥的行為非常的遺憾但是也必須向委員報告在這幾年當中已經完全改善而且現在文化部針對這個案子還在管控當中我們是每年用放大鏡在做檢視是不是改善那目前為止沒有新的情況"},{"start":680.982,"end":696.176,"text":"所以我相信英廣現在是一個很認真負責的在對待這件事情董事長我無意刁難喔但是這些資料都是人民的辛苦納稅錢那有涉嫌這樣子的一個狀況國人都很關心我們都說錢很重要"},{"start":696.736,"end":722.898,"text":"剛剛每個委員都在關注不管所提到的相關預算問題我想預算不外乎要監督那現在有這樣子的涉嫌有可能乍臨甚至是福報的一個狀況你們內部也有調查過的確是有這樣子的遺憾所以你說很遺憾嘛對不對所以在面臨這樣子的高度檢視跟監督的時候是有其必要性的對吧是好謝謝那我想所有的資料應該都要坦誠報告啦那最後我想請問一下這個部長"},{"start":724.431,"end":749.07,"text":"部長對於文化部我們上次在審預算的時候這個國漫館還記得嗎國漫館我們在審理這樣子的總共五千萬的一個預算的時候最後凍結是五百萬那當時我們所提到不外乎幾個事項我所關注的第一國漫館到底現在所面臨到的就是無障礙措施以及跟台灣漫畫家的合作以及文創"},{"start":750.191,"end":777.265,"text":"能夠進駐更多的一些廠商甚至是比照更多年輕時下大家對於國漫或者是日本韓國的漫畫相關的銷售模式我說的是銷售模式那還有最重要的是休憩空間的改善當時也獲得許多不是我們同黨同志也都一起來戰下因為大家覺得所謂的無障礙非常重要"},{"start":777.805,"end":790.376,"text":"那現在已經有凍結預算了那目前國慢館有沒有準備要來送審凍結解凍那目前無障礙的改善以及我們所當時建議的進度如何"},{"start":791.516,"end":814.986,"text":"我最近去看的感覺是他完全已經改善這個無障礙然後最近我覺得國漫館做的活動跟過去比起來是非常多包括日本的議員古路歸斯他帶著幾個議員還來參觀國漫館想知道台灣的國家怎麼去建立一個漫畫中心我們當初很快的蓋好這個之後"},{"start":815.886,"end":842.452,"text":"內部的調整您剛剛講的所有的問題都是對的就是我們要怎麼樣去增加展覽空間我們怎麼去保存文物我們怎麼去推廣我們的漫畫這個我們一直在加緊腳步在做上次還有講休憩包括很多的一些親子家庭來到休憩空間的不足還有我們說到的是有所謂的扭蛋的方式去呈現的銷售模式或者是文創的入住其實在當下我們都有提到"},{"start":842.992,"end":858.12,"text":"那我們希望的是都希望國慢能夠更好以及國慢館的一個設施運作的時候能夠能有所提升那我要講的是說如果剛剛你所說的你們都準備好了也都有改善了我覺得這個部分的解凍案部長"},{"start":858.78,"end":874.387,"text":"您有預計什麼時候可以面臨這樣子的一個解凍案可以趕快送神嗎當然如果你有意願你也準備好了我們自己也有趙偉啊我們也可以跟趙偉講希望他排案啊來幫忙協助啊那這部分你已經準備好了嗎我問問看你準備了嗎可以啊"},{"start":876.912,"end":897.071,"text":"其實剛才回到解凍案的問題我們個別個別都在朝著要解凍的那個東西在寫那我剛才有解釋過解凍的理由還有我們要寫的過程為什麼我們有點猶豫因為我們前面在審預算的過程中我的經驗很怕再被羞辱一次"},{"start":899.195,"end":924.674,"text":"我想用羞辱這個言詞非常的嚴厲但沒關係我們都是希望這個國家好我們都希望國慢管能夠更好相信你自己也相信我們在對於這個監督的過程當中都是希望朝向更好的一個方向我想在基本上我剛剛所講的就是很簡單最後趙偉要站起來了對於無障礙空間的一個改善對於休憩空間的一個改善對於台灣的漫畫家"},{"start":926.815,"end":950.589,"text":"的合作能夠有更多元甚至是二手漫畫的交流以及銷售方式的文創能夠更加的入住這個部分是當然見仁見智但是如果有朝向這個方向我們都希望能夠朝這個方向來努力的時候就是樂觀其成我們會來協助但是我覺得不需要去擔憂嘛那這個部分一起來努力可以嗎"},{"start":951.129,"end":971.636,"text":"我覺得羅委員對我們的漫畫博物館這麼關心我非常高興因為我自己對於漫畫也充滿了覺得我們在最近的這幾年看到我們的台漫起來我心裡也非常急切我希望羅委員協助我們爭取預算還有一切一切的我們一起來做好嗎"},{"start":972.116,"end":986.646,"text":"最後十秒我們一定會協助只要您的政策是方向是對的我想這個過程中很激烈有火花但是結果是希望朝向正面的我們都是為這個國家努力為文化努力為國慢關努力一起加油謝謝好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":550,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時42分）好，謝謝召委。有請部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["李部長遠：羅委員，你好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長好。部長，想跟你探討一下文化傳承，來談布袋戲。想跟你請問一下這幾個人物，那我們一起來瞭解一下。第一個，部長，您知道這是誰嗎？"],["李部長遠：這史艷文啊。"],["羅委員廷瑋：葉小釵。"],["李部長遠：我是故意講史艷文讓你笑的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：沒有，沒有，沒有。"],["李部長遠：因為我們年齡差太多了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：沒有，沒有，沒有。我們探討啦，我們沒有任何去調侃的意思啦。一起探討，一起加油。","第二個是誰？剛剛底下的人好像有滿多共鳴，是你們都知道嗎？那第二個，請部長回答。"],["李部長遠：哈麥二齒啊。"],["羅委員廷瑋：不是，不是，不是。是蔭屍人。","第三個，來，來，來。儘量回答看看，沒關係，沒關係。"],["李部長遠：太陽王啊。"],["羅委員廷瑋：有太陽王這個角色嗎？我先跟你講啦，這個拿來考我，我也不知道，我自己也要坦誠，這個是業途靈。","再猜第四個。唉唷，下面有人唸出來喔。報告部長，這是非常女。","再猜第五個。這個已經是非常非常知名的。"],["李部長遠：我本來知道，我看到你，我很緊張，就忘記了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：沒有，你不覺得今天我的氣氛就是儘可能的大家很平和嗎？"],["李部長遠：我好緊張耶。"],["羅委員廷瑋：素還真。","好，來，第六個。其實真的滿簡單的。"],["李部長遠：藏鏡人。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，藏鏡人。","再來，第七個，你講過的。"],["李部長遠：哈麥二齒。"],["羅委員廷瑋：哈麥二齒。","那第八個。他算是也滿常出現的。3個字，有人打pass嗎？可以打pass，沒關係。"],["李部長遠：阿善師啊。"],["羅委員廷瑋：不是阿善師，是秦假仙。","部長，其實這8個布袋戲的人物，是無形的文化資產，那當然我坦白講，連我要回答的時候，有時候都非常的吃緊，包括台底下，大家一起聽到。那我要講的是說，今天答對，沒有得分，答錯，也不應該有處罰，但是我們要講的是背後的一個含意，面臨現階段布袋戲的成長一直在緊縮，30歲以下的年輕人搞不好還沒看過布袋戲，但是我覺得布袋戲在臺灣是一個非常非常重要的，整個粉絲跟客群一直在減少，藝術傳承也都出現了斷層，傳統技藝面臨消失的風險，我們應該共同來努力，但是我們要看到，臺灣布袋戲竟然在日本是成長的，臺灣與日本合作的東離劍遊紀，吸引了大批日本人關注布袋戲，部長，日本反而比臺灣更關注布袋戲，那臺灣作為布袋戲最重要的一個文化標誌，我們該怎麼辦？您覺得呢？"],["李部長遠：我覺得我們回到本土文化裡面，像歌仔戲跟布袋戲，是絕對絕對第一重要，所以我們在文化部其實有支持在雲林蓋了一個布袋戲的傳習中心，然後我們自己有很多計畫，包括補助很多團體，包括兒童團體裡面繼續延續布袋戲的表演，譬如說，雲林有個藝文教育扎根計畫，我們就補助了3,870萬，所以委員你講的非常重要，我剛才跟你講這些人的名字的時候，其實我童年在萬華長大，我每天上學就看到布偶的製作，看布偶怎麼製作、怎麼畫臉、怎麼做衣服，布袋戲絕對是一個我們全力要推廣的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：也是你成長過程的一個經歷，對不對？"],["李部長遠：對，共同的記憶。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以可以認同一起來幫布袋戲繼續扎根推廣。那當然我沒有說你沒有補助，我們都知道，文化部在這個部分，不管是無形的文化資產，還是我們傳統的記憶，都是有在努力的，可是我要講的是說，部長，在你成長的時代，一群學生興起創作民歌，改變了國語樂壇的制式化，現在民歌傳唱50年了，你有沒有自己很熟悉的民歌？"],["李部長遠：我寫過民歌，我寫的最有名的一首叫做夸父追日，是李建復唱的，然後我寫過很多民歌，跟陳揚合作，所以我是一個……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我沒聽過啊，因為對我來說，我記憶中的民歌可能是橄欖樹啊。"],["李部長遠：是，我們因為年齡差太多，所以你剛剛問我對民歌熟不熟，其實我就是民歌創作者。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝你，好險你沒有考我民歌，不然我也會像你一樣答不出來。"],["李部長遠：因為我實在太老了，所以……"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是我要講的是，民歌傳唱50年，政府在補助流行音樂的時候，或許也都一直努力在民歌的推廣，也都有補助民歌，但是聽眾如果老了，我們是不是就應該要放棄？這個其實讓民眾有一個很大的反思，文化部沒有放棄，應該一起繼續努力，但是我們要講的是，不只是給予補助，如何在教育的部分，不要失去這個寶貴的偶戲文化，布袋戲的扎根教育，以及從國小、國中、高中要怎麼來做，不只是文化的保存，剛剛你說有這個管項，那我們在這個文化的教育要怎麼樣來加強？我想強調的是，教育體系對布袋戲的傳承的重要性，而不是把布袋戲當作是短期的，或者是活動式的，或者是單純觀賞的，我覺得這個都不夠長久，如何創造一個在現在21世紀新的文化，但是是傳統的記憶，我覺得在這一次日本跟臺灣合作的東離劍遊紀，達到了這樣的效果，讓日本的年輕人開始重視，那我們是不是能夠一起開始規劃這個部分，文化部加一點力呢？"],["李部長遠：我非常贊成，因為我們總是要選擇幾個屬於我們臺灣自己特有的文化來……"],["羅委員廷瑋：其實某部分來說，我覺得你也算是教育者啊。"],["李部長遠：我是師範大學畢業的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們曾經做紙風車劇團的「寶莉回家」，這個故事也是你寫的。"],["李部長遠：我寫過滿多童話故事。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這部也是在教育我們的孩子。"],["李部長遠：對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：那如何將這個現在我要提到的傳統技藝，能夠也變成一個教育，變成是一個文化的教育，這個部分，我希望教育部不只是砸錢，能不能在體制上或者是在具體的政策上，讓傳統技藝能夠被看到，這個我們一起加油，可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：可以啊。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。","另外，我要跟部長再探討的是央廣涉嫌詐領，我想前因後果其實您大概都知道了，前立委李德維曾質詢有關央廣詐領的爭議，時任文化部長的李永得也表示，不滿意央廣現在的行政調查，因此外聘會計事務所做查核，並承諾最終交報告給立法院，然而現在這些報告被列為機密文件，最終未送到立法院。部長，我想請問你，文化部對於央廣調查報告列為機密的決策，是否知情？文化部身為督導的單位，有沒有去瞭解所有的狀況？"],["李部長遠：因為這件事情真的隔滿久的，我知道之後，我開始瞭解整個過程，文化部的立場是很快就要求第三方去調查，調查出來，發現有問題之後，直接送檢調，所以這個東西還是要檢調單位再查，當時的文化部從2021年開始，有要求央廣改進內控制度及會計查核制度，有建立一個比較完善、透明的檢查方法，從2021年到現在，改善滿多的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：改善滿多的。那這一份報告，我剛剛說的，您作為文化部長，是督導單位，看起來您有去瞭解了，但是我們都知道，這個案件被列為機密案件，這個合理嗎？你是否會督促央廣去解除機密的等級，並依法提供報告送交立法院，供國人、供所有的立法委員來瞭解？這份報告是調查國家補助資金的流向，我現在講，這個是內部有無浮報跟貪污的情事，並不是國防、外交、國安事項，如果今天是國防、外交、國安事項，我可以尊重，我覺得你去使用機密資料處理辦法來規避現階段根本不屬於國安事項的調查的話，部長，您的態度是要不要公布？"],["李部長遠：已經公布了。關於您剛才講的有關國安的東西，我想他們已經解除了，已經正式對外全部公布。"],["羅委員廷瑋：全部嗎？前幾天的新聞還有報出來喔。"],["李部長遠：我是不是請董事長跟你解釋？因為我們董事長在現場。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。"],["賴董事長秀如：跟委員報告，這個資料調查報告在個資去識別化之後，向所有關心的委員都公布了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：前幾天的新聞你有看到嗎？"],["賴董事長秀如：看到了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，那您覺得呢？"],["賴董事長秀如：我們覺得非常的遺憾，針對過去曾經有不妥的情況，我們實在是非常的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：不要緊張，您大聲一點，好嗎？對不起。"],["賴董事長秀如：好的，我個人對過去曾經有過的不妥行為非常的遺憾，但是也必須向委員報告，在這幾年當中已經完全改善，而且現在文化部針對這個案子還在管控當中，我們是每年用放大鏡在檢視是不是改善，到目前為止沒有新的情況，所以我相信央廣現在是很認真、負責地在對待這件事情。"],["羅委員廷瑋：董事長，我無意刁難，但是這些資料都是人民的辛苦納稅錢，有涉嫌這樣子的一個狀況，國人都很關心，我們都說錢很重要，剛剛每個委員都在關注相關預算，我想預算不外乎要監督，那現在有這樣子涉嫌詐領甚至浮報的狀況，你們內部也有調查過，的確是有這樣子的遺憾，所以你說很遺憾嘛，對不對？所以在面臨這樣子的高度檢視跟監督的時候，是有其必要性的，對吧？"],["賴董事長秀如：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝。那我想所有的資料應該都要坦誠報告。","最後我想請問一下部長。部長，我們上次在審預算的時候，有討論國漫館，還記得嗎？"],["李部長遠：記得。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們在審理總共5,000萬預算的時候，最後凍結數是500萬，當時我們所提到的，不外乎幾個事項，我所關注的有幾個，第一，國漫館到底現在的無障礙措施，以及跟臺灣漫畫家的合作，以及文創能夠進駐更多廠商，甚至是比照更多年輕時下大家對於國漫或日本、韓國的漫畫相關的銷售模式，還有最重要的是休憩空間的改善，當時有很多人，即使不是我們同黨同志，也都一起來「讚聲」，因為大家覺得無障礙非常重要，那現在已經有凍結預算了，目前國漫館有沒有準備要來送審，讓凍結的預算解凍？目前無障礙的改善及我們當時建議改善的部分進度如何？"],["李部長遠：我最近去看的感覺是，無障礙設施完全已經改善，然後最近我覺得國漫館做的活動跟過去比起來是多非常多，包括古屋圭司等幾個日本議員來參觀國漫館，想知道臺灣的國家怎麼去建立一個漫畫中心，我們當初很快地蓋好這個之後，內部的調整，你剛才講的所有問題都是對的，就是我們要怎麼樣去增加展覽空間，我們怎麼去保存文物，我們怎麼去推廣我們的漫畫，我們一直加緊腳步在做。"],["羅委員廷瑋：上次還有講休憩，因為包括很多親子家庭來到這裡，凸顯休憩空間的不足，還有我們說到用扭蛋的方式去呈現的銷售模式，或者是文創的入駐，其實在當下我們都有提到，我們都希望國漫能夠更好，以及國漫館的設施在運作的時候能夠有所提升，那我要講的是說，如果剛剛你所說的你們都準備好了，也都有改善，這個部分的解凍案，部長，您預計什麼時候可以面臨這樣子的解凍案，可以趕快送審？如果你有意願，你也準備好了，我們自己也有召委啊，我們也可以跟召委講，希望他排案，來幫忙協助啊。這個部分你已經準備好了嗎？"],["李部長遠：我問問看。其實剛才回到解凍案的問題，我們個別都朝著要解凍的那個東西在寫，我剛剛有解釋過，解凍的理由和我們要寫的過程，為什麼我們有點猶豫，因為以我們前面在審預算過程中的經驗，讓我們很怕再被羞辱一次。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想用羞辱這個言詞，非常的嚴厲，但沒關係，我們都是希望這個國家好，我們都希望國漫館能夠更好，相信你自己，也相信我們在監督的過程當中，都是希望朝向更好的方向。基本上，我剛剛講的很簡單，就是對於無障礙空間的改善，對於休憩空間的改善，對於臺灣漫畫家的合作能夠更多元，甚至是二手漫畫的交流，以及銷售方式的文創能夠更多入駐，這個部分當然是見仁見智，但是如果有朝向這個方向，我們都希望能夠朝這個方向來努力的時候，就是樂觀其成，我們會來協助，但是我覺得不需要去擔憂嘛，我們在這個部分一起來努力，可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：我覺得羅委員對我們的漫畫博物館這麼關心，我非常高興，因為我自己在最近這幾年，看到我們的臺漫起來，我心裡也非常急切，我希望羅委員協助我們爭取預算，還有一切一切的，我們一起來做，好嗎？"],["羅委員廷瑋：最後10秒。我們一定會協助，只要您的政策方向是對的，我想這個過程中很激烈，有火花，但是希望結果是朝向正面的，我們都是為這個國家努力，為文化努力，為國漫館努力。一起加油，謝謝。"],["李部長遠：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅廷瑋委員。部長請回。","我們接下來請范雲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":144,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-4","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","萬美玲","林沛祥","劉書彬","葛如鈞","林月琴","陳秀寳","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","羅廷瑋","范雲","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳思瑤","高金素梅","李坤城","蔡易餘","葉元之","林倩綺","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜"],"page_start":75,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00002"}}}