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{\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 141.083, \"end\": 141.303, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 141.303, \"end\": 141.683, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"遺\"}, {\"word\": \"址\", \"start\": 141.683, \"end\": 141.823, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 141.823, \"end\": 142.703, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 142.703, \"end\": 142.943, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 142.943, \"end\": 143.303, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 143.303, \"end\": 143.403, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 143.403, \"end\": 143.423, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 143.423, \"end\": 143.523, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 143.523, \"end\": 143.543, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 146.204, \"end\": 159.717, \"text\": \"我知道那天總質詢的時候我們張雅玲委員就是也很關心這題我們一起開記者會的那天部長您的回應是人權管已經在擬定由民間主動申請暫時替代不移植給予轉型正義異議場域名稱的方案\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 146.204, \"end\": 146.304, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 146.304, \"end\": 146.384, \"score\": 0.605}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 146.384, \"end\": 146.544, \"score\": 0.473}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 146.544, \"end\": 146.665, \"score\": 0.636}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 146.665, \"end\": 147.485, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 147.485, \"end\": 147.605, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 147.605, \"end\": 147.746, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 147.746, \"end\": 148.326, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"雅\", \"start\": 148.326, \"end\": 148.506, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 148.506, \"end\": 148.706, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 148.706, 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0.593}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 153.071, \"end\": 153.311, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 153.311, \"end\": 153.671, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 153.671, \"end\": 153.831, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 153.831, \"end\": 153.991, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 153.991, \"end\": 154.352, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 154.352, \"end\": 154.772, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 154.772, \"end\": 155.273, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 155.273, \"end\": 155.533, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 155.533, \"end\": 155.873, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 155.873, \"end\": 156.374, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 156.374, \"end\": 156.834, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 156.834, \"end\": 157.094, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 157.094, \"end\": 157.755, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 157.755, \"end\": 158.296, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 158.296, \"end\": 158.596, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"暫\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"替\", \"start\": 158.596, \"end\": 158.616, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 158.616, \"end\": 159.136, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 159.136, \"end\": 159.156, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 159.156, \"end\": 159.176, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"植\", \"start\": 159.176, \"end\": 159.196, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"予\", \"start\": 159.196, \"end\": 159.337, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"型\", \"start\": 159.337, \"end\": 159.357, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 159.357, \"end\": 159.377, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"異\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"域\", \"start\": 159.377, \"end\": 159.517, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 159.517, \"end\": 159.657, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"稱\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 159.657, \"end\": 159.677, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 159.677, \"end\": 159.697, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 159.697, \"end\": 159.717, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 165.903, \"end\": 182.9, \"text\": \"我是覺得這是一個很好的開始但是我回來就是查看總統的說法我覺得您這個很好的開始可是有點不符合總統的承諾因為總統的意思是我們讀起來是文化部主動要去做\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 165.903, \"end\": 166.083, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 166.083, \"end\": 166.403, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 166.403, \"end\": 166.724, \"score\": 0.636}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 166.724, \"end\": 166.844, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 166.844, \"end\": 167.024, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": 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0.999}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"謊\"}]}, {\"start\": 565.731, \"end\": 591.237, \"text\": \"你們第一次給本席的就是說內容啊就是他完全沒有參與任何活動後來改成說沒有參與你們補助的活動所以就是說那些活動他們有參加但是只是不是你們的補助那這樣第一次你們給本席的資訊在我的記者會前不就是他們說謊然後你們不知道嗎我好心想說你們不知道我想這個是他們帶給我們的資訊那我現在問您他第一次是不是說謊嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 565.731, \"end\": 565.951, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 565.951, \"end\": 565.971, \"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 565.971, \"end\": 566.171, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 566.171, \"end\": 567.471, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 567.471, \"end\": 567.791, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 567.791, \"end\": 568.032, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 568.032, \"end\": 568.752, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 568.752, \"end\": 568.952, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 568.952, \"end\": 569.332, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, 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您知道這件事情嗎因為我今天質詢前又繼續跟你們要資料啦是那他們有沒有給你一個解釋為什麼第一次不給你真實完整的資訊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 607.894, \"end\": 608.274, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 608.274, \"end\": 608.415, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 608.415, \"end\": 608.495, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 608.495, \"end\": 608.795, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 608.795, \"end\": 608.895, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 608.895, \"end\": 609.055, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 609.055, \"end\": 609.695, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 609.695, \"end\": 609.995, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 609.995, \"end\": 610.216, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 610.216, \"end\": 610.536, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 610.536, \"end\": 610.776, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"侵\", \"start\": 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\"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 925.137, \"end\": 925.217, \"score\": 0.503}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 925.217, \"end\": 925.437, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 925.437, \"end\": 925.497, \"score\": 0.695}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"昭\", \"start\": 925.497, \"end\": 925.517, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,514 --> 00:00:24,987\n有請部長還有文資司長跟好像沒有客家電視台台長是不是好那就有事好那客家電視台好有請部長部長先好了因為那個是後半段他們兩位先那個\n\n2\n00:00:29,227 --> 00:00:35,033\n法委員您好部長您好我想您到現在應該知道就是林宅血案的遺址他們的申請台北市的依照文資法的史跡被駁回那我有開記者會因為就是我認為他們的理由跟審查的意見前後矛盾\n\n3\n00:00:50,069 --> 00:01:01,720\n一方面說這個事情就是調查好像沒有明確二方面又推給說文化部就是因為文資法不是文資法不義遺址專法還沒有通過事實上如果根據促展會的調查報告我這邊列出來的都是促展會調查報告\n\n4\n00:01:09,006 --> 00:01:18,731\n血案已經非常清楚見證國家介入司法情治單位就是國安局隱匿關鍵的電話對專案小組隱瞞這個都是我們促轉會的報告所以情治國安介入司法侵害人權是明確的事實那這個部分那所以呢我想賴總統\n\n5\n00:01:34,278 --> 00:01:46,826\n他的高度我非常的覺得非常的好他在二二八我們是二二八前夕的記者會二二八之前當天的發言他就承諾說請文化部啟動審議程序將一光教會列為具有轉型正義意義的場所加以保存維護這是那天賴總統的發言臉書上都有\n\n6\n00:02:04,638 --> 00:02:23,543\n根據促轉會的任務總結報告文化部應該要調查建立不義遺址主管機關應成立審議會等等然後才有保存因為促轉會移交給文化部的工作就是保存不義遺址那部長應該可以肯定保存不義遺址的話當然要繼續調查那所以\n\n7\n00:02:26,204 --> 00:02:39,717\n我知道那天總質詢的時候我們張雅玲委員就是也很關心這題我們一起開記者會的那天部長您的回應是人權管已經在擬定由民間主動申請暫時替代不移植給予轉型正義異議場域名稱的方案\n\n8\n00:02:45,903 --> 00:03:02,900\n我是覺得這是一個很好的開始但是我回來就是查看總統的說法我覺得您這個很好的開始可是有點不符合總統的承諾因為總統的意思是我們讀起來是文化部主動要去做\n\n9\n00:03:03,260 --> 00:03:27,241\n文化部要啟動審議的程序那您那邊就會變成說人權會去訂出辦法讓民間自己來提那我是覺得民間已經受挫了一光教會好不容易整合他們的意見主動對台北市文化局那在這個時候我覺得依照賴總統的公開的發言那文化部應該要主動\n\n10\n00:03:29,062 --> 00:03:50,732\n那不知道那個部長有讀過那個促轉會的總結的報告關於不義遺址那一張嗎就是文化部被交接的工作有沒有那裡面就有講到非常的清楚為什麼一開始的時候沒有藝光教會是因為當時是以公有的財產為主那如果根據那個報告書裡面\n\n11\n00:03:53,393 --> 00:04:16,423\n就是所謂的大量的不幸發生的時候他說這個大量也有包含就是對社會影響甚具的案件就是說基本上就是一光教會以我們對促轉會的報告來講的話完全符合這個意義它對整個社會對我們的民主化的過程有關鍵的影響因為是社會矚目的案件甚至國際矚目\n\n12\n00:04:17,423 --> 00:04:29,121\n那既然促轉會的報告都有這個部分了那部長是不是可以承諾就是主動促成這個事不要再等到萬一一光教會沒有來申請呢是不是能夠更積極主動一點\n\n13\n00:04:30,580 --> 00:04:53,079\n我們去主動找過一關教會我們剛才講到說要民間來申請是因為當年的不育已死有一個規定就是公有的場所我們可以去設定那私人的我們不能強迫私人的要他來申請要同意我們才能設所以我們用同樣的這個法條我們沒辦法強迫他設所以\n\n14\n00:04:54,561 --> 00:05:11,801\n當總統講完那個之後我們人權館就主動去建了這個一貫教會是不是請他來我們人權館的館長跟您報告是否簡短就好因為我待會還有另外一題所以你們已經主動接觸一貫教會了那這個審議的程序是不是能夠專案處理盡快好嗎我們可以主動來協助跟輔導\n\n15\n00:05:14,284 --> 00:05:38,086\n那大概多久多久的時間內會有結果呢審議的結果會出來以我們現在跟他溝通的過程事實上他們對於這樣的一個做法還沒有很冷很就如何保存如何就是讓這個空間更能彰顯這個轉型的正義當然據說系我是說那可不可以在既然你們已經接觸了一個月內給我一個報告好嗎\n\n16\n00:05:41,169 --> 00:05:47,676\n希望能夠盡速確定他的不以已止的地位或者是具轉型正義意義的地位部長剛剛是問他一個月內給我報告這件事情三個月內應該可以確定吧\n\n17\n00:05:57,781 --> 00:06:20,243\n確定說確定掛牌就是一光教會是否具有轉型正義意義的一個官方的身份地位當初其實他想要爭取的是跟政府爭取不義遺址那政府把它退回來之後而是台北市文化局不是政府台北市文化局部分的政府那我們的確沒有通過這個不義遺址條例嘛\n\n18\n00:06:20,523 --> 00:06:33,128\n對但是你們還是可以繼續審定啊對不對審定是一件正在進行的但是掛上不義遺址這件事情如果這個條例沒有過的話我們就只好想一個總統講的那個就是轉型正義的\n\n19\n00:06:36,970 --> 00:06:58,712\n具有轉型正義這個產育這個名稱來取代可是他還不是能夠取代不義遺址就這個方面我們跟他溝通部長我先打岔一下其實降讀那個東西並沒有排除專法沒過就不能夠有這個名稱那當然這個部分你們的法務可以去了解一下好不好那就先這樣那三個月內這件事可以定案吧\n\n20\n00:06:59,424 --> 00:07:13,296\n三個月內給你一個報告三個月內以前給你一個報告那再來就是那當然我想希望文化部盡快實現總統的承諾那第二個部分我想先請問那個文資局文資局文資司\n\n21\n00:07:19,784 --> 00:07:40,458\n這個部分你們應該知道我要問什麼事吧我現在覺得不能接受的事情是去年3月我們就揭露這件事情比李姓郎師戲曲學禮上15年來是性侵多名學生這個嚴重度您知道吧是性侵\n\n22\n00:07:41,943 --> 00:08:03,223\n然後這是調查確立的2024年6月戲曲學院就把他解聘終生不能再聘為教師可是呢至今他仍在客家戲曲界活躍多次參與漢陽北館劇團的演出那這個漢陽北館劇團長年受到文化資產局的補助\n\n23\n00:08:04,424 --> 00:08:28,683\n那今年二月戲曲學院的學生受紅杏校友邀請參加客家電視台節目演出排練當天才知道是理師帶領那這部分我想先講文資局我在開記者會前給你們空間跟機會因為我們是並沒有真的要找你麻煩可是記者會前文化部文資局給我的是說\n\n24\n00:08:30,390 --> 00:08:54,361\n沒有漢陽北管劇團跟你們講他沒有參與任何的相關活動記者會後你們今天據說之前給我的資料改口了說他沒有參與你們補助的活動所以是漢陽北管劇團說謊第一次說謊還是你們你知道你們在包庇他們可不可以講一下\n\n25\n00:08:55,862 --> 00:09:19,876\n好委員這個我們經過上次記者會之後我們大概做了幾個動作啦第一個我們3月20號有發文給劇團那也當面在昨天也特別找了團長當面的面談好那你現在可不可以講當前一個多小時他們劇團已經正式在臉書上有正式的聲明書有大概他的講法我們他是說\n\n26\n00:09:20,717 --> 00:09:24,406\n請問我先很簡單第一次漢陽北館劇團你們問的時候他們是不是說謊\n\n27\n00:09:25,731 --> 00:09:51,237\n你們第一次給本席的就是說內容啊就是他完全沒有參與任何活動後來改成說沒有參與你們補助的活動所以就是說那些活動他們有參加但是只是不是你們的補助那這樣第一次你們給本席的資訊在我的記者會前不就是他們說謊然後你們不知道嗎我好心想說你們不知道我想這個是他們帶給我們的資訊那我現在問您他第一次是不是說謊嘛\n\n28\n00:09:53,585 --> 00:10:04,818\n我想這個是可能他們表這個我們不敢確認他是不是刻意的還是說他不是刻意說謊所以他有說謊只是你不知道他是不是刻意嗎\n\n29\n00:10:07,894 --> 00:10:36,131\n好那我要講的事情這麼重大一個性侵犯業界都知道漢陽北本劇團立委在詢問記者會前給你們空間還膽敢跟你們掩飾事實那之後你們有沒有再問他說你們第一次為什麼沒有告訴我們那個您知道這件事情嗎因為我今天質詢前又繼續跟你們要資料啦是那他們有沒有給你一個解釋為什麼第一次不給你真實完整的資訊\n\n30\n00:10:39,810 --> 00:10:55,346\n沒有您到現在都不知道請關切這件事情如果黃子嬌從此不能夠看任何的不能上節目的話這個是性侵犯而且是十幾名學生那這件事情是非常嚴重的好嗎如果一個漢陽北館劇團跟你們說謊的話\n\n31\n00:10:58,869 --> 00:11:26,641\n不讓他參加送你們補助的活動卻讓他上台表演在別的活動我認為這個漢陽北館劇團他在倫理上對性別平等的價值上真的據說不值得拿到我們公家的資源補助那是不是可以請您去調查了解一下他為什麼說謊好不好好那另外就是因為時間的緣故客家電視台我現在覺得那個您是您的身分是\n\n32\n00:11:27,541 --> 00:11:51,380\n委員好我是台長台長喔那您有沒有看到那天那個你們客家電視台我們邀請他來我們的記者會他當天說的話有我不知道你們是找一個不會說話的人來記者會讓我們執政黨的立委覺得非常的難堪喔就講一個好像完全聽不懂我們在編什麼為什麼不找一個了解狀況的人他分明就是在迴避有沒有參與排練的事實你們\n\n33\n00:11:52,000 --> 00:12:07,487\n在我今天質詢前給我的資料也完全迴避我們問的是人家人本戲曲學院自己做的調查都有四名學生接到校友的邀請當天才知道是李詩佳\n\n34\n00:12:08,647 --> 00:12:31,107\n講的是排練那你們在跟我玩文字遊戲給我的公視今天的公視幫他背書你這個客家電視台的調查真的是講的是說沒有參加角色名單工作沒有我們講的是排練那你在玩文字遊戲說他沒有演出沒有掛名工作人員你覺得我這個立委是要跟你玩文字遊戲嗎\n\n35\n00:12:33,260 --> 00:12:48,372\n局長你有沒有看過給本席的你們的東西公文你同意這個公文的品質嗎報告委員確實在那一天的記者會之後我們同步採取了三個比較主要的行動除了聽到劇團的說法我們不排除就是\n\n36\n00:12:48,812 --> 00:13:05,016\n他有不是事實的可能所以我們協同公視的法務人員到他們講到的排練地點實地去敞刊那同時也跟三個主要關鍵的包括團長製作人還有在記者會上提到紅信的老師當面面談從早上9點到12點是在3月15號週六這個日子\n\n37\n00:13:08,337 --> 00:13:23,868\n那我們也接續的用公文的方式協請台灣戲曲學院以及教育部協助我們調查我知道你們都在公文往返啦那你們有沒有問他說到底有沒有讓學生跟這個性侵狼屍理屍排列就這麼簡單的事實陳述他跟你說沒有\n\n38\n00:13:26,129 --> 00:13:41,277\n是不是我們透過公文的方式也確實收到回函那他們不僅有這個台灣李源戲劇團的回函還有當時的導演以及你們都只能跟他們公文不能夠你們下面的節目只能跟他們公文不能問他說有沒有參與問永英說有沒有參與排演排練我們有問他他說沒有\n\n39\n00:13:45,999 --> 00:13:56,450\n收到的資訊目前因為沒有辦法用單方的資訊來做驗證所以我們協請教育部或許他們那邊可以有比較多那個我想我們周圍站起來不想浪費大家時間部長你聽到他們調查的品質了\n\n40\n00:14:02,176 --> 00:14:22,756\n就是說不知道為什麼只能用公文公文都在迴避事實說沒有做別的事那可是公文都已經呈現很危險的資料要那位主角去跟這個理事請教身段請教什麼然後講得不清不楚我的中文不夠好看不懂到底有沒有碰面什麼之後只有電話那之前呢為什麼要玩這種文字遊戲你們這種調查品質文化部長請您讓\n\n41\n00:14:27,580 --> 00:14:52,692\n讓他們台長本身性別平等的訓練顯然不足文資剛剛那位是局長嘛顯然不夠重視這件事我跟他說性侵十幾名戲曲學院終生不得聘任的老師那可以讓下面的人這樣子呼嚨我們大家浪費我的時間我們去年就揭曝這個事情今年又跟郭玉琴委員今年三個立委今天我再度質詢還是沒辦法得到答案\n\n42\n00:14:53,132 --> 00:15:08,762\n真的是非常非常對你們不夠重視這件事情非常的失望我相信這部長不瞭解這件事情部長可不可以給我一個檢討報告為什麼一個案子要花我們這麼多的時間他是杏青郎師十幾名學生欸部長可以給我一個檢討報告嗎我知道他們正在調查了可是這個過程真的讓人失望那多久內可以給我一個檢討報告\n\n43\n00:15:22,795 --> 00:15:25,517\n我要以文化部的名義給我一個檢討報告好嗎沒問題那個兩個月還是一個月部長兩個月好嗎好兩個月好謝謝昭偉謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7514\t24987\t有請部長還有文資司長跟好像沒有客家電視台台長是不是好那就有事好那客家電視台好有請部長部長先好了因為那個是後半段他們兩位先那個\n29227\t35033\t法委員您好部長您好我想您到現在應該知道就是林宅血案的遺址他們的申請台北市的依照文資法的史跡被駁回那我有開記者會因為就是我認為他們的理由跟審查的意見前後矛盾\n50069\t61720\t一方面說這個事情就是調查好像沒有明確二方面又推給說文化部就是因為文資法不是文資法不義遺址專法還沒有通過事實上如果根據促展會的調查報告我這邊列出來的都是促展會調查報告\n69006\t78731\t血案已經非常清楚見證國家介入司法情治單位就是國安局隱匿關鍵的電話對專案小組隱瞞這個都是我們促轉會的報告所以情治國安介入司法侵害人權是明確的事實那這個部分那所以呢我想賴總統\n94278\t106826\t他的高度我非常的覺得非常的好他在二二八我們是二二八前夕的記者會二二八之前當天的發言他就承諾說請文化部啟動審議程序將一光教會列為具有轉型正義意義的場所加以保存維護這是那天賴總統的發言臉書上都有\n124638\t143543\t根據促轉會的任務總結報告文化部應該要調查建立不義遺址主管機關應成立審議會等等然後才有保存因為促轉會移交給文化部的工作就是保存不義遺址那部長應該可以肯定保存不義遺址的話當然要繼續調查那所以\n146204\t159717\t我知道那天總質詢的時候我們張雅玲委員就是也很關心這題我們一起開記者會的那天部長您的回應是人權管已經在擬定由民間主動申請暫時替代不移植給予轉型正義異議場域名稱的方案\n165903\t182900\t我是覺得這是一個很好的開始但是我回來就是查看總統的說法我覺得您這個很好的開始可是有點不符合總統的承諾因為總統的意思是我們讀起來是文化部主動要去做\n183260\t207241\t文化部要啟動審議的程序那您那邊就會變成說人權會去訂出辦法讓民間自己來提那我是覺得民間已經受挫了一光教會好不容易整合他們的意見主動對台北市文化局那在這個時候我覺得依照賴總統的公開的發言那文化部應該要主動\n209062\t230732\t那不知道那個部長有讀過那個促轉會的總結的報告關於不義遺址那一張嗎就是文化部被交接的工作 有沒有那裡面就有講到非常的清楚為什麼一開始的時候沒有藝光教會是因為當時是以公有的財產為主那如果根據那個報告書裡面\n233393\t256423\t就是所謂的大量的不幸發生的時候他說這個大量也有包含就是對社會影響甚具的案件就是說基本上就是一光教會以我們對促轉會的報告來講的話完全符合這個意義它對整個社會對我們的民主化的過程有關鍵的影響因為是社會矚目的案件甚至國際矚目\n257423\t269121\t那既然促轉會的報告都有這個部分了那部長是不是可以承諾就是主動促成這個事不要再等到萬一一光教會沒有來申請呢是不是能夠更積極主動一點\n270580\t293079\t我們去主動找過一關教會我們剛才講到說要民間來申請是因為當年的不育已死有一個規定就是公有的場所我們可以去設定那私人的我們不能強迫私人的要他來申請要同意我們才能設所以我們用同樣的這個法條我們沒辦法強迫他設所以\n294561\t311801\t當總統講完那個之後我們人權館就主動去建了這個一貫教會是不是請他來我們人權館的館長跟您報告是否簡短就好因為我待會還有另外一題所以你們已經主動接觸一貫教會了那這個審議的程序是不是能夠專案處理盡快好嗎我們可以主動來協助跟輔導\n314284\t338086\t那大概多久多久的時間內會有結果呢審議的結果會出來以我們現在跟他溝通的過程事實上他們對於這樣的一個做法還沒有很冷很就如何保存如何就是讓這個空間更能彰顯這個轉型的正義當然據說系我是說那可不可以在既然你們已經接觸了一個月內給我一個報告好嗎\n341169\t347676\t希望能夠盡速確定他的不以已止的地位或者是具轉型正義意義的地位部長 剛剛是問他一個月內給我報告這件事情三個月內應該可以確定吧\n357781\t380243\t確定說確定掛牌就是一光教會是否具有轉型正義意義的一個官方的身份地位當初其實他想要爭取的是跟政府爭取不義遺址那政府把它退回來之後而是台北市文化局不是政府台北市文化局部分的政府那我們的確沒有通過這個不義遺址條例嘛\n380523\t393128\t對 但是你們還是可以繼續審定啊對不對審定是一件正在進行的但是掛上不義遺址這件事情如果這個條例沒有過的話我們就只好想一個總統講的那個就是轉型正義的\n396970\t418712\t具有轉型正義這個產育這個名稱來取代可是他還不是能夠取代不義遺址就這個方面我們跟他溝通部長我先打岔一下其實降讀那個東西並沒有排除專法沒過就不能夠有這個名稱那當然這個部分你們的法務可以去了解一下好不好那就先這樣那三個月內這件事可以定案吧\n419424\t433296\t三個月內給你一個報告三個月內以前給你一個報告那再來就是那當然我想希望文化部盡快實現總統的承諾那第二個部分我想先請問那個文資局文資局 文資司\n439784\t460458\t這個部分 你們應該知道我要問什麼事吧我現在覺得不能接受的事情是去年3月我們就揭露這件事情比李姓郎師 戲曲學禮上15年來是性侵多名學生 這個嚴重度您知道吧是性侵\n461943\t483223\t然後這是調查確立的2024年6月戲曲學院就把他解聘終生不能再聘為教師可是呢至今他仍在客家戲曲界活躍多次參與漢陽北館劇團的演出那這個漢陽北館劇團長年受到文化資產局的補助\n484424\t508683\t那今年二月戲曲學院的學生受紅杏校友邀請參加客家電視台節目演出排練當天才知道是理師帶領那這部分我想先講文資局我在開記者會前給你們空間跟機會因為我們是並沒有真的要找你麻煩可是記者會前文化部文資局給我的是說\n510390\t534361\t沒有 漢陽北管劇團跟你們講他沒有參與任何的相關活動記者會後 你們今天據說之前給我的資料改口了說他沒有參與你們補助的活動所以是漢陽北管劇團說謊 第一次說謊還是你們 你知道 你們在包庇他們 可不可以講一下\n535862\t559876\t好委員 這個我們經過上次記者會之後我們大概做了幾個動作啦第一個我們3月20號有發文給劇團那也當面在昨天也特別找了團長當面的面談好 那你現在可不可以講 當前一個多小時他們劇團已經正式在臉書上有正式的聲明書有大概他的講法 我們他是說\n560717\t564406\t請問我先很簡單第一次漢陽北館劇團你們問的時候他們是不是說謊\n565731\t591237\t你們第一次給本席的就是說內容啊就是他完全沒有參與任何活動後來改成說沒有參與你們補助的活動所以就是說那些活動他們有參加但是只是不是你們的補助那這樣第一次你們給本席的資訊在我的記者會前不就是他們說謊然後你們不知道嗎我好心想說你們不知道我想這個是他們帶給我們的資訊那我現在問您他第一次是不是說謊嘛\n593585\t604818\t我想這個是可能他們表這個我們不敢確認他是不是刻意的還是說他不是刻意說謊所以他有說謊只是你不知道他是不是刻意嗎\n607894\t636131\t好 那我要講的事情這麼重大一個性侵犯業界都知道漢陽北本劇團立委在詢問記者會前給你們空間還膽敢跟你們掩飾事實那之後你們有沒有再問他說你們第一次為什麼沒有告訴我們那個 您知道這件事情嗎因為我今天質詢前又繼續跟你們要資料啦是那他們有沒有給你一個解釋為什麼第一次不給你真實完整的資訊\n639810\t655346\t沒有 您到現在都不知道 請關切這件事情如果黃子嬌從此不能夠看任何的 不能上節目的話這個是性侵犯 而且是十幾名學生那這件事情是非常嚴重的 好嗎如果一個漢陽北館劇團跟你們說謊的話\n658869\t686641\t不讓他參加送你們補助的活動卻讓他上台表演在別的活動我認為這個漢陽北館劇團他在倫理上對性別平等的價值上真的據說不值得拿到我們公家的資源補助那是不是可以請您去調查了解一下他為什麼說謊 好不好好那另外就是因為時間的緣故客家電視台我現在覺得那個您是 您的身分是\n687541\t711380\t委員好 我是台長台長喔 那您有沒有看到那天那個你們客家電視台我們邀請他來我們的記者會他當天說的話有我不知道你們是找一個不會說話的人來記者會讓我們執政黨的立委覺得非常的難堪喔就講一個好像完全聽不懂我們在編什麼為什麼不找一個了解狀況的人他分明就是在迴避有沒有參與排練的事實你們\n712000\t727487\t在我今天質詢前給我的資料也完全迴避我們問的是人家人本 戲曲學院自己做的調查都有四名學生接到校友的邀請當天才知道是李詩佳\n728647\t751107\t講的是排練那你們在跟我玩文字遊戲給我的公視今天的公視幫他背書你這個客家電視台的調查真的是講的是說沒有參加角色名單工作沒有我們講的是排練那你在玩文字遊戲說他沒有演出沒有掛名工作人員你覺得我這個立委是要跟你玩文字遊戲嗎\n753260\t768372\t局長你有沒有看過給本席的你們的東西公文你同意這個公文的品質嗎報告委員確實在那一天的記者會之後我們同步採取了三個比較主要的行動除了聽到劇團的說法我們不排除就是\n768812\t785016\t他有不是事實的可能所以我們協同公視的法務人員到他們講到的排練地點實地去敞刊那同時也跟三個主要關鍵的包括團長製作人還有在記者會上提到紅信的老師當面面談從早上9點到12點是在3月15號週六這個日子\n788337\t803868\t那我們也接續的用公文的方式協請台灣戲曲學院以及教育部協助我們調查我知道你們都在公文往返啦那你們有沒有問他說到底有沒有讓學生跟這個性侵狼屍理屍排列就這麼簡單的事實陳述他跟你說沒有\n806129\t821277\t是不是我們透過公文的方式也確實收到回函那他們不僅有這個台灣李源戲劇團的回函還有當時的導演以及你們都只能跟他們公文不能夠你們下面的節目只能跟他們公文不能問他說有沒有參與問永英說有沒有參與排演 排練我們有問他他說沒有\n825999\t836450\t收到的資訊目前因為沒有辦法用單方的資訊來做驗證所以我們協請教育部或許他們那邊可以有比較多那個我想我們周圍站起來不想浪費大家時間部長你聽到他們調查的品質了\n842176\t862756\t就是說不知道為什麼只能用公文公文都在迴避事實說沒有做別的事那可是公文都已經呈現很危險的資料要那位主角去跟這個理事請教身段請教什麼然後講得不清不楚我的中文不夠好看不懂到底有沒有碰面什麼之後只有電話那之前呢為什麼要玩這種文字遊戲你們這種調查品質文化部長請您讓\n867580\t892692\t讓他們台長本身性別平等的訓練顯然不足文資剛剛那位是局長嘛 顯然不夠重視這件事我跟他說性侵十幾名戲曲學院終生不得聘任的老師那可以讓下面的人這樣子呼嚨我們大家浪費我的時間我們去年就揭曝這個事情今年又跟郭玉琴委員 今年三個立委今天我再度質詢 還是沒辦法得到答案\n893132\t908762\t真的是非常非常對你們不夠重視這件事情非常的失望我相信這部長不瞭解這件事情部長可不可以給我一個檢討報告為什麼一個案子要花我們這麼多的時間他是杏青郎師十幾名學生欸部長可以給我一個檢討報告嗎我知道他們正在調查了可是這個過程真的讓人失望那多久內可以給我一個檢討報告\n922795\t925517\t我要以文化部的名義給我一個檢討報告好嗎 沒問題那個兩個月還是一個月 部長兩個月好嗎好 兩個月好謝謝昭偉 謝謝\n","txt":"有請部長還有文資司長跟好像沒有客家電視台台長是不是好那就有事好那客家電視台好有請部長部長先好了因為那個是後半段他們兩位先那個\n法委員您好部長您好我想您到現在應該知道就是林宅血案的遺址他們的申請台北市的依照文資法的史跡被駁回那我有開記者會因為就是我認為他們的理由跟審查的意見前後矛盾\n一方面說這個事情就是調查好像沒有明確二方面又推給說文化部就是因為文資法不是文資法不義遺址專法還沒有通過事實上如果根據促展會的調查報告我這邊列出來的都是促展會調查報告\n血案已經非常清楚見證國家介入司法情治單位就是國安局隱匿關鍵的電話對專案小組隱瞞這個都是我們促轉會的報告所以情治國安介入司法侵害人權是明確的事實那這個部分那所以呢我想賴總統\n他的高度我非常的覺得非常的好他在二二八我們是二二八前夕的記者會二二八之前當天的發言他就承諾說請文化部啟動審議程序將一光教會列為具有轉型正義意義的場所加以保存維護這是那天賴總統的發言臉書上都有\n根據促轉會的任務總結報告文化部應該要調查建立不義遺址主管機關應成立審議會等等然後才有保存因為促轉會移交給文化部的工作就是保存不義遺址那部長應該可以肯定保存不義遺址的話當然要繼續調查那所以\n我知道那天總質詢的時候我們張雅玲委員就是也很關心這題我們一起開記者會的那天部長您的回應是人權管已經在擬定由民間主動申請暫時替代不移植給予轉型正義異議場域名稱的方案\n我是覺得這是一個很好的開始但是我回來就是查看總統的說法我覺得您這個很好的開始可是有點不符合總統的承諾因為總統的意思是我們讀起來是文化部主動要去做\n文化部要啟動審議的程序那您那邊就會變成說人權會去訂出辦法讓民間自己來提那我是覺得民間已經受挫了一光教會好不容易整合他們的意見主動對台北市文化局那在這個時候我覺得依照賴總統的公開的發言那文化部應該要主動\n那不知道那個部長有讀過那個促轉會的總結的報告關於不義遺址那一張嗎就是文化部被交接的工作 有沒有那裡面就有講到非常的清楚為什麼一開始的時候沒有藝光教會是因為當時是以公有的財產為主那如果根據那個報告書裡面\n就是所謂的大量的不幸發生的時候他說這個大量也有包含就是對社會影響甚具的案件就是說基本上就是一光教會以我們對促轉會的報告來講的話完全符合這個意義它對整個社會對我們的民主化的過程有關鍵的影響因為是社會矚目的案件甚至國際矚目\n那既然促轉會的報告都有這個部分了那部長是不是可以承諾就是主動促成這個事不要再等到萬一一光教會沒有來申請呢是不是能夠更積極主動一點\n我們去主動找過一關教會我們剛才講到說要民間來申請是因為當年的不育已死有一個規定就是公有的場所我們可以去設定那私人的我們不能強迫私人的要他來申請要同意我們才能設所以我們用同樣的這個法條我們沒辦法強迫他設所以\n當總統講完那個之後我們人權館就主動去建了這個一貫教會是不是請他來我們人權館的館長跟您報告是否簡短就好因為我待會還有另外一題所以你們已經主動接觸一貫教會了那這個審議的程序是不是能夠專案處理盡快好嗎我們可以主動來協助跟輔導\n那大概多久多久的時間內會有結果呢審議的結果會出來以我們現在跟他溝通的過程事實上他們對於這樣的一個做法還沒有很冷很就如何保存如何就是讓這個空間更能彰顯這個轉型的正義當然據說系我是說那可不可以在既然你們已經接觸了一個月內給我一個報告好嗎\n希望能夠盡速確定他的不以已止的地位或者是具轉型正義意義的地位部長 剛剛是問他一個月內給我報告這件事情三個月內應該可以確定吧\n確定說確定掛牌就是一光教會是否具有轉型正義意義的一個官方的身份地位當初其實他想要爭取的是跟政府爭取不義遺址那政府把它退回來之後而是台北市文化局不是政府台北市文化局部分的政府那我們的確沒有通過這個不義遺址條例嘛\n對 但是你們還是可以繼續審定啊對不對審定是一件正在進行的但是掛上不義遺址這件事情如果這個條例沒有過的話我們就只好想一個總統講的那個就是轉型正義的\n具有轉型正義這個產育這個名稱來取代可是他還不是能夠取代不義遺址就這個方面我們跟他溝通部長我先打岔一下其實降讀那個東西並沒有排除專法沒過就不能夠有這個名稱那當然這個部分你們的法務可以去了解一下好不好那就先這樣那三個月內這件事可以定案吧\n三個月內給你一個報告三個月內以前給你一個報告那再來就是那當然我想希望文化部盡快實現總統的承諾那第二個部分我想先請問那個文資局文資局 文資司\n這個部分 你們應該知道我要問什麼事吧我現在覺得不能接受的事情是去年3月我們就揭露這件事情比李姓郎師 戲曲學禮上15年來是性侵多名學生 這個嚴重度您知道吧是性侵\n然後這是調查確立的2024年6月戲曲學院就把他解聘終生不能再聘為教師可是呢至今他仍在客家戲曲界活躍多次參與漢陽北館劇團的演出那這個漢陽北館劇團長年受到文化資產局的補助\n那今年二月戲曲學院的學生受紅杏校友邀請參加客家電視台節目演出排練當天才知道是理師帶領那這部分我想先講文資局我在開記者會前給你們空間跟機會因為我們是並沒有真的要找你麻煩可是記者會前文化部文資局給我的是說\n沒有 漢陽北管劇團跟你們講他沒有參與任何的相關活動記者會後 你們今天據說之前給我的資料改口了說他沒有參與你們補助的活動所以是漢陽北管劇團說謊 第一次說謊還是你們 你知道 你們在包庇他們 可不可以講一下\n好委員 這個我們經過上次記者會之後我們大概做了幾個動作啦第一個我們3月20號有發文給劇團那也當面在昨天也特別找了團長當面的面談好 那你現在可不可以講 當前一個多小時他們劇團已經正式在臉書上有正式的聲明書有大概他的講法 我們他是說\n請問我先很簡單第一次漢陽北館劇團你們問的時候他們是不是說謊\n你們第一次給本席的就是說內容啊就是他完全沒有參與任何活動後來改成說沒有參與你們補助的活動所以就是說那些活動他們有參加但是只是不是你們的補助那這樣第一次你們給本席的資訊在我的記者會前不就是他們說謊然後你們不知道嗎我好心想說你們不知道我想這個是他們帶給我們的資訊那我現在問您他第一次是不是說謊嘛\n我想這個是可能他們表這個我們不敢確認他是不是刻意的還是說他不是刻意說謊所以他有說謊只是你不知道他是不是刻意嗎\n好 那我要講的事情這麼重大一個性侵犯業界都知道漢陽北本劇團立委在詢問記者會前給你們空間還膽敢跟你們掩飾事實那之後你們有沒有再問他說你們第一次為什麼沒有告訴我們那個 您知道這件事情嗎因為我今天質詢前又繼續跟你們要資料啦是那他們有沒有給你一個解釋為什麼第一次不給你真實完整的資訊\n沒有 您到現在都不知道 請關切這件事情如果黃子嬌從此不能夠看任何的 不能上節目的話這個是性侵犯 而且是十幾名學生那這件事情是非常嚴重的 好嗎如果一個漢陽北館劇團跟你們說謊的話\n不讓他參加送你們補助的活動卻讓他上台表演在別的活動我認為這個漢陽北館劇團他在倫理上對性別平等的價值上真的據說不值得拿到我們公家的資源補助那是不是可以請您去調查了解一下他為什麼說謊 好不好好那另外就是因為時間的緣故客家電視台我現在覺得那個您是 您的身分是\n委員好 我是台長台長喔 那您有沒有看到那天那個你們客家電視台我們邀請他來我們的記者會他當天說的話有我不知道你們是找一個不會說話的人來記者會讓我們執政黨的立委覺得非常的難堪喔就講一個好像完全聽不懂我們在編什麼為什麼不找一個了解狀況的人他分明就是在迴避有沒有參與排練的事實你們\n在我今天質詢前給我的資料也完全迴避我們問的是人家人本 戲曲學院自己做的調查都有四名學生接到校友的邀請當天才知道是李詩佳\n講的是排練那你們在跟我玩文字遊戲給我的公視今天的公視幫他背書你這個客家電視台的調查真的是講的是說沒有參加角色名單工作沒有我們講的是排練那你在玩文字遊戲說他沒有演出沒有掛名工作人員你覺得我這個立委是要跟你玩文字遊戲嗎\n局長你有沒有看過給本席的你們的東西公文你同意這個公文的品質嗎報告委員確實在那一天的記者會之後我們同步採取了三個比較主要的行動除了聽到劇團的說法我們不排除就是\n他有不是事實的可能所以我們協同公視的法務人員到他們講到的排練地點實地去敞刊那同時也跟三個主要關鍵的包括團長製作人還有在記者會上提到紅信的老師當面面談從早上9點到12點是在3月15號週六這個日子\n那我們也接續的用公文的方式協請台灣戲曲學院以及教育部協助我們調查我知道你們都在公文往返啦那你們有沒有問他說到底有沒有讓學生跟這個性侵狼屍理屍排列就這麼簡單的事實陳述他跟你說沒有\n是不是我們透過公文的方式也確實收到回函那他們不僅有這個台灣李源戲劇團的回函還有當時的導演以及你們都只能跟他們公文不能夠你們下面的節目只能跟他們公文不能問他說有沒有參與問永英說有沒有參與排演 排練我們有問他他說沒有\n收到的資訊目前因為沒有辦法用單方的資訊來做驗證所以我們協請教育部或許他們那邊可以有比較多那個我想我們周圍站起來不想浪費大家時間部長你聽到他們調查的品質了\n就是說不知道為什麼只能用公文公文都在迴避事實說沒有做別的事那可是公文都已經呈現很危險的資料要那位主角去跟這個理事請教身段請教什麼然後講得不清不楚我的中文不夠好看不懂到底有沒有碰面什麼之後只有電話那之前呢為什麼要玩這種文字遊戲你們這種調查品質文化部長請您讓\n讓他們台長本身性別平等的訓練顯然不足文資剛剛那位是局長嘛 顯然不夠重視這件事我跟他說性侵十幾名戲曲學院終生不得聘任的老師那可以讓下面的人這樣子呼嚨我們大家浪費我的時間我們去年就揭曝這個事情今年又跟郭玉琴委員 今年三個立委今天我再度質詢 還是沒辦法得到答案\n真的是非常非常對你們不夠重視這件事情非常的失望我相信這部長不瞭解這件事情部長可不可以給我一個檢討報告為什麼一個案子要花我們這麼多的時間他是杏青郎師十幾名學生欸部長可以給我一個檢討報告嗎我知道他們正在調查了可是這個過程真的讓人失望那多久內可以給我一個檢討報告\n我要以文化部的名義給我一個檢討報告好嗎 沒問題那個兩個月還是一個月 部長兩個月好嗎好 兩個月好謝謝昭偉 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.514 --> 00:24.987\n有請部長還有文資司長跟好像沒有客家電視台台長是不是好那就有事好那客家電視台好有請部長部長先好了因為那個是後半段他們兩位先那個\n\n00:29.227 --> 00:35.033\n法委員您好部長您好我想您到現在應該知道就是林宅血案的遺址他們的申請台北市的依照文資法的史跡被駁回那我有開記者會因為就是我認為他們的理由跟審查的意見前後矛盾\n\n00:50.069 --> 01:01.720\n一方面說這個事情就是調查好像沒有明確二方面又推給說文化部就是因為文資法不是文資法不義遺址專法還沒有通過事實上如果根據促展會的調查報告我這邊列出來的都是促展會調查報告\n\n01:09.006 --> 01:18.731\n血案已經非常清楚見證國家介入司法情治單位就是國安局隱匿關鍵的電話對專案小組隱瞞這個都是我們促轉會的報告所以情治國安介入司法侵害人權是明確的事實那這個部分那所以呢我想賴總統\n\n01:34.278 --> 01:46.826\n他的高度我非常的覺得非常的好他在二二八我們是二二八前夕的記者會二二八之前當天的發言他就承諾說請文化部啟動審議程序將一光教會列為具有轉型正義意義的場所加以保存維護這是那天賴總統的發言臉書上都有\n\n02:04.638 --> 02:23.543\n根據促轉會的任務總結報告文化部應該要調查建立不義遺址主管機關應成立審議會等等然後才有保存因為促轉會移交給文化部的工作就是保存不義遺址那部長應該可以肯定保存不義遺址的話當然要繼續調查那所以\n\n02:26.204 --> 02:39.717\n我知道那天總質詢的時候我們張雅玲委員就是也很關心這題我們一起開記者會的那天部長您的回應是人權管已經在擬定由民間主動申請暫時替代不移植給予轉型正義異議場域名稱的方案\n\n02:45.903 --> 03:02.900\n我是覺得這是一個很好的開始但是我回來就是查看總統的說法我覺得您這個很好的開始可是有點不符合總統的承諾因為總統的意思是我們讀起來是文化部主動要去做\n\n03:03.260 --> 03:27.241\n文化部要啟動審議的程序那您那邊就會變成說人權會去訂出辦法讓民間自己來提那我是覺得民間已經受挫了一光教會好不容易整合他們的意見主動對台北市文化局那在這個時候我覺得依照賴總統的公開的發言那文化部應該要主動\n\n03:29.062 --> 03:50.732\n那不知道那個部長有讀過那個促轉會的總結的報告關於不義遺址那一張嗎就是文化部被交接的工作有沒有那裡面就有講到非常的清楚為什麼一開始的時候沒有藝光教會是因為當時是以公有的財產為主那如果根據那個報告書裡面\n\n03:53.393 --> 04:16.423\n就是所謂的大量的不幸發生的時候他說這個大量也有包含就是對社會影響甚具的案件就是說基本上就是一光教會以我們對促轉會的報告來講的話完全符合這個意義它對整個社會對我們的民主化的過程有關鍵的影響因為是社會矚目的案件甚至國際矚目\n\n04:17.423 --> 04:29.121\n那既然促轉會的報告都有這個部分了那部長是不是可以承諾就是主動促成這個事不要再等到萬一一光教會沒有來申請呢是不是能夠更積極主動一點\n\n04:30.580 --> 04:53.079\n我們去主動找過一關教會我們剛才講到說要民間來申請是因為當年的不育已死有一個規定就是公有的場所我們可以去設定那私人的我們不能強迫私人的要他來申請要同意我們才能設所以我們用同樣的這個法條我們沒辦法強迫他設所以\n\n04:54.561 --> 05:11.801\n當總統講完那個之後我們人權館就主動去建了這個一貫教會是不是請他來我們人權館的館長跟您報告是否簡短就好因為我待會還有另外一題所以你們已經主動接觸一貫教會了那這個審議的程序是不是能夠專案處理盡快好嗎我們可以主動來協助跟輔導\n\n05:14.284 --> 05:38.086\n那大概多久多久的時間內會有結果呢審議的結果會出來以我們現在跟他溝通的過程事實上他們對於這樣的一個做法還沒有很冷很就如何保存如何就是讓這個空間更能彰顯這個轉型的正義當然據說系我是說那可不可以在既然你們已經接觸了一個月內給我一個報告好嗎\n\n05:41.169 --> 05:47.676\n希望能夠盡速確定他的不以已止的地位或者是具轉型正義意義的地位部長剛剛是問他一個月內給我報告這件事情三個月內應該可以確定吧\n\n05:57.781 --> 06:20.243\n確定說確定掛牌就是一光教會是否具有轉型正義意義的一個官方的身份地位當初其實他想要爭取的是跟政府爭取不義遺址那政府把它退回來之後而是台北市文化局不是政府台北市文化局部分的政府那我們的確沒有通過這個不義遺址條例嘛\n\n06:20.523 --> 06:33.128\n對但是你們還是可以繼續審定啊對不對審定是一件正在進行的但是掛上不義遺址這件事情如果這個條例沒有過的話我們就只好想一個總統講的那個就是轉型正義的\n\n06:36.970 --> 06:58.712\n具有轉型正義這個產育這個名稱來取代可是他還不是能夠取代不義遺址就這個方面我們跟他溝通部長我先打岔一下其實降讀那個東西並沒有排除專法沒過就不能夠有這個名稱那當然這個部分你們的法務可以去了解一下好不好那就先這樣那三個月內這件事可以定案吧\n\n06:59.424 --> 07:13.296\n三個月內給你一個報告三個月內以前給你一個報告那再來就是那當然我想希望文化部盡快實現總統的承諾那第二個部分我想先請問那個文資局文資局文資司\n\n07:19.784 --> 07:40.458\n這個部分你們應該知道我要問什麼事吧我現在覺得不能接受的事情是去年3月我們就揭露這件事情比李姓郎師戲曲學禮上15年來是性侵多名學生這個嚴重度您知道吧是性侵\n\n07:41.943 --> 08:03.223\n然後這是調查確立的2024年6月戲曲學院就把他解聘終生不能再聘為教師可是呢至今他仍在客家戲曲界活躍多次參與漢陽北館劇團的演出那這個漢陽北館劇團長年受到文化資產局的補助\n\n08:04.424 --> 08:28.683\n那今年二月戲曲學院的學生受紅杏校友邀請參加客家電視台節目演出排練當天才知道是理師帶領那這部分我想先講文資局我在開記者會前給你們空間跟機會因為我們是並沒有真的要找你麻煩可是記者會前文化部文資局給我的是說\n\n08:30.390 --> 08:54.361\n沒有漢陽北管劇團跟你們講他沒有參與任何的相關活動記者會後你們今天據說之前給我的資料改口了說他沒有參與你們補助的活動所以是漢陽北管劇團說謊第一次說謊還是你們你知道你們在包庇他們可不可以講一下\n\n08:55.862 --> 09:19.876\n好委員這個我們經過上次記者會之後我們大概做了幾個動作啦第一個我們3月20號有發文給劇團那也當面在昨天也特別找了團長當面的面談好那你現在可不可以講當前一個多小時他們劇團已經正式在臉書上有正式的聲明書有大概他的講法我們他是說\n\n09:20.717 --> 09:24.406\n請問我先很簡單第一次漢陽北館劇團你們問的時候他們是不是說謊\n\n09:25.731 --> 09:51.237\n你們第一次給本席的就是說內容啊就是他完全沒有參與任何活動後來改成說沒有參與你們補助的活動所以就是說那些活動他們有參加但是只是不是你們的補助那這樣第一次你們給本席的資訊在我的記者會前不就是他們說謊然後你們不知道嗎我好心想說你們不知道我想這個是他們帶給我們的資訊那我現在問您他第一次是不是說謊嘛\n\n09:53.585 --> 10:04.818\n我想這個是可能他們表這個我們不敢確認他是不是刻意的還是說他不是刻意說謊所以他有說謊只是你不知道他是不是刻意嗎\n\n10:07.894 --> 10:36.131\n好那我要講的事情這麼重大一個性侵犯業界都知道漢陽北本劇團立委在詢問記者會前給你們空間還膽敢跟你們掩飾事實那之後你們有沒有再問他說你們第一次為什麼沒有告訴我們那個您知道這件事情嗎因為我今天質詢前又繼續跟你們要資料啦是那他們有沒有給你一個解釋為什麼第一次不給你真實完整的資訊\n\n10:39.810 --> 10:55.346\n沒有您到現在都不知道請關切這件事情如果黃子嬌從此不能夠看任何的不能上節目的話這個是性侵犯而且是十幾名學生那這件事情是非常嚴重的好嗎如果一個漢陽北館劇團跟你們說謊的話\n\n10:58.869 --> 11:26.641\n不讓他參加送你們補助的活動卻讓他上台表演在別的活動我認為這個漢陽北館劇團他在倫理上對性別平等的價值上真的據說不值得拿到我們公家的資源補助那是不是可以請您去調查了解一下他為什麼說謊好不好好那另外就是因為時間的緣故客家電視台我現在覺得那個您是您的身分是\n\n11:27.541 --> 11:51.380\n委員好我是台長台長喔那您有沒有看到那天那個你們客家電視台我們邀請他來我們的記者會他當天說的話有我不知道你們是找一個不會說話的人來記者會讓我們執政黨的立委覺得非常的難堪喔就講一個好像完全聽不懂我們在編什麼為什麼不找一個了解狀況的人他分明就是在迴避有沒有參與排練的事實你們\n\n11:52.000 --> 12:07.487\n在我今天質詢前給我的資料也完全迴避我們問的是人家人本戲曲學院自己做的調查都有四名學生接到校友的邀請當天才知道是李詩佳\n\n12:08.647 --> 12:31.107\n講的是排練那你們在跟我玩文字遊戲給我的公視今天的公視幫他背書你這個客家電視台的調查真的是講的是說沒有參加角色名單工作沒有我們講的是排練那你在玩文字遊戲說他沒有演出沒有掛名工作人員你覺得我這個立委是要跟你玩文字遊戲嗎\n\n12:33.260 --> 12:48.372\n局長你有沒有看過給本席的你們的東西公文你同意這個公文的品質嗎報告委員確實在那一天的記者會之後我們同步採取了三個比較主要的行動除了聽到劇團的說法我們不排除就是\n\n12:48.812 --> 13:05.016\n他有不是事實的可能所以我們協同公視的法務人員到他們講到的排練地點實地去敞刊那同時也跟三個主要關鍵的包括團長製作人還有在記者會上提到紅信的老師當面面談從早上9點到12點是在3月15號週六這個日子\n\n13:08.337 --> 13:23.868\n那我們也接續的用公文的方式協請台灣戲曲學院以及教育部協助我們調查我知道你們都在公文往返啦那你們有沒有問他說到底有沒有讓學生跟這個性侵狼屍理屍排列就這麼簡單的事實陳述他跟你說沒有\n\n13:26.129 --> 13:41.277\n是不是我們透過公文的方式也確實收到回函那他們不僅有這個台灣李源戲劇團的回函還有當時的導演以及你們都只能跟他們公文不能夠你們下面的節目只能跟他們公文不能問他說有沒有參與問永英說有沒有參與排演排練我們有問他他說沒有\n\n13:45.999 --> 13:56.450\n收到的資訊目前因為沒有辦法用單方的資訊來做驗證所以我們協請教育部或許他們那邊可以有比較多那個我想我們周圍站起來不想浪費大家時間部長你聽到他們調查的品質了\n\n14:02.176 --> 14:22.756\n就是說不知道為什麼只能用公文公文都在迴避事實說沒有做別的事那可是公文都已經呈現很危險的資料要那位主角去跟這個理事請教身段請教什麼然後講得不清不楚我的中文不夠好看不懂到底有沒有碰面什麼之後只有電話那之前呢為什麼要玩這種文字遊戲你們這種調查品質文化部長請您讓\n\n14:27.580 --> 14:52.692\n讓他們台長本身性別平等的訓練顯然不足文資剛剛那位是局長嘛顯然不夠重視這件事我跟他說性侵十幾名戲曲學院終生不得聘任的老師那可以讓下面的人這樣子呼嚨我們大家浪費我的時間我們去年就揭曝這個事情今年又跟郭玉琴委員今年三個立委今天我再度質詢還是沒辦法得到答案\n\n14:53.132 --> 15:08.762\n真的是非常非常對你們不夠重視這件事情非常的失望我相信這部長不瞭解這件事情部長可不可以給我一個檢討報告為什麼一個案子要花我們這麼多的時間他是杏青郎師十幾名學生欸部長可以給我一個檢討報告嗎我知道他們正在調查了可是這個過程真的讓人失望那多久內可以給我一個檢討報告\n\n15:22.795 --> 15:25.517\n我要以文化部的名義給我一個檢討報告好嗎沒問題那個兩個月還是一個月部長兩個月好嗎好兩個月好謝謝昭偉謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.514,"end":24.987,"text":"有請部長還有文資司長跟好像沒有客家電視台台長是不是好那就有事好那客家電視台好有請部長部長先好了因為那個是後半段他們兩位先那個"},{"start":29.227,"end":35.033,"text":"法委員您好部長您好我想您到現在應該知道就是林宅血案的遺址他們的申請台北市的依照文資法的史跡被駁回那我有開記者會因為就是我認為他們的理由跟審查的意見前後矛盾"},{"start":50.069,"end":61.72,"text":"一方面說這個事情就是調查好像沒有明確二方面又推給說文化部就是因為文資法不是文資法不義遺址專法還沒有通過事實上如果根據促展會的調查報告我這邊列出來的都是促展會調查報告"},{"start":69.006,"end":78.731,"text":"血案已經非常清楚見證國家介入司法情治單位就是國安局隱匿關鍵的電話對專案小組隱瞞這個都是我們促轉會的報告所以情治國安介入司法侵害人權是明確的事實那這個部分那所以呢我想賴總統"},{"start":94.278,"end":106.826,"text":"他的高度我非常的覺得非常的好他在二二八我們是二二八前夕的記者會二二八之前當天的發言他就承諾說請文化部啟動審議程序將一光教會列為具有轉型正義意義的場所加以保存維護這是那天賴總統的發言臉書上都有"},{"start":124.638,"end":143.543,"text":"根據促轉會的任務總結報告文化部應該要調查建立不義遺址主管機關應成立審議會等等然後才有保存因為促轉會移交給文化部的工作就是保存不義遺址那部長應該可以肯定保存不義遺址的話當然要繼續調查那所以"},{"start":146.204,"end":159.717,"text":"我知道那天總質詢的時候我們張雅玲委員就是也很關心這題我們一起開記者會的那天部長您的回應是人權管已經在擬定由民間主動申請暫時替代不移植給予轉型正義異議場域名稱的方案"},{"start":165.903,"end":182.9,"text":"我是覺得這是一個很好的開始但是我回來就是查看總統的說法我覺得您這個很好的開始可是有點不符合總統的承諾因為總統的意思是我們讀起來是文化部主動要去做"},{"start":183.26,"end":207.241,"text":"文化部要啟動審議的程序那您那邊就會變成說人權會去訂出辦法讓民間自己來提那我是覺得民間已經受挫了一光教會好不容易整合他們的意見主動對台北市文化局那在這個時候我覺得依照賴總統的公開的發言那文化部應該要主動"},{"start":209.062,"end":230.732,"text":"那不知道那個部長有讀過那個促轉會的總結的報告關於不義遺址那一張嗎就是文化部被交接的工作 有沒有那裡面就有講到非常的清楚為什麼一開始的時候沒有藝光教會是因為當時是以公有的財產為主那如果根據那個報告書裡面"},{"start":233.393,"end":256.423,"text":"就是所謂的大量的不幸發生的時候他說這個大量也有包含就是對社會影響甚具的案件就是說基本上就是一光教會以我們對促轉會的報告來講的話完全符合這個意義它對整個社會對我們的民主化的過程有關鍵的影響因為是社會矚目的案件甚至國際矚目"},{"start":257.423,"end":269.121,"text":"那既然促轉會的報告都有這個部分了那部長是不是可以承諾就是主動促成這個事不要再等到萬一一光教會沒有來申請呢是不是能夠更積極主動一點"},{"start":270.58,"end":293.079,"text":"我們去主動找過一關教會我們剛才講到說要民間來申請是因為當年的不育已死有一個規定就是公有的場所我們可以去設定那私人的我們不能強迫私人的要他來申請要同意我們才能設所以我們用同樣的這個法條我們沒辦法強迫他設所以"},{"start":294.561,"end":311.801,"text":"當總統講完那個之後我們人權館就主動去建了這個一貫教會是不是請他來我們人權館的館長跟您報告是否簡短就好因為我待會還有另外一題所以你們已經主動接觸一貫教會了那這個審議的程序是不是能夠專案處理盡快好嗎我們可以主動來協助跟輔導"},{"start":314.284,"end":338.086,"text":"那大概多久多久的時間內會有結果呢審議的結果會出來以我們現在跟他溝通的過程事實上他們對於這樣的一個做法還沒有很冷很就如何保存如何就是讓這個空間更能彰顯這個轉型的正義當然據說系我是說那可不可以在既然你們已經接觸了一個月內給我一個報告好嗎"},{"start":341.169,"end":347.676,"text":"希望能夠盡速確定他的不以已止的地位或者是具轉型正義意義的地位部長 剛剛是問他一個月內給我報告這件事情三個月內應該可以確定吧"},{"start":357.781,"end":380.243,"text":"確定說確定掛牌就是一光教會是否具有轉型正義意義的一個官方的身份地位當初其實他想要爭取的是跟政府爭取不義遺址那政府把它退回來之後而是台北市文化局不是政府台北市文化局部分的政府那我們的確沒有通過這個不義遺址條例嘛"},{"start":380.523,"end":393.128,"text":"對 但是你們還是可以繼續審定啊對不對審定是一件正在進行的但是掛上不義遺址這件事情如果這個條例沒有過的話我們就只好想一個總統講的那個就是轉型正義的"},{"start":396.97,"end":418.712,"text":"具有轉型正義這個產育這個名稱來取代可是他還不是能夠取代不義遺址就這個方面我們跟他溝通部長我先打岔一下其實降讀那個東西並沒有排除專法沒過就不能夠有這個名稱那當然這個部分你們的法務可以去了解一下好不好那就先這樣那三個月內這件事可以定案吧"},{"start":419.424,"end":433.296,"text":"三個月內給你一個報告三個月內以前給你一個報告那再來就是那當然我想希望文化部盡快實現總統的承諾那第二個部分我想先請問那個文資局文資局 文資司"},{"start":439.784,"end":460.458,"text":"這個部分 你們應該知道我要問什麼事吧我現在覺得不能接受的事情是去年3月我們就揭露這件事情比李姓郎師 戲曲學禮上15年來是性侵多名學生 這個嚴重度您知道吧是性侵"},{"start":461.943,"end":483.223,"text":"然後這是調查確立的2024年6月戲曲學院就把他解聘終生不能再聘為教師可是呢至今他仍在客家戲曲界活躍多次參與漢陽北館劇團的演出那這個漢陽北館劇團長年受到文化資產局的補助"},{"start":484.424,"end":508.683,"text":"那今年二月戲曲學院的學生受紅杏校友邀請參加客家電視台節目演出排練當天才知道是理師帶領那這部分我想先講文資局我在開記者會前給你們空間跟機會因為我們是並沒有真的要找你麻煩可是記者會前文化部文資局給我的是說"},{"start":510.39,"end":534.361,"text":"沒有 漢陽北管劇團跟你們講他沒有參與任何的相關活動記者會後 你們今天據說之前給我的資料改口了說他沒有參與你們補助的活動所以是漢陽北管劇團說謊 第一次說謊還是你們 你知道 你們在包庇他們 可不可以講一下"},{"start":535.862,"end":559.876,"text":"好委員 這個我們經過上次記者會之後我們大概做了幾個動作啦第一個我們3月20號有發文給劇團那也當面在昨天也特別找了團長當面的面談好 那你現在可不可以講 當前一個多小時他們劇團已經正式在臉書上有正式的聲明書有大概他的講法 我們他是說"},{"start":560.717,"end":564.406,"text":"請問我先很簡單第一次漢陽北館劇團你們問的時候他們是不是說謊"},{"start":565.731,"end":591.237,"text":"你們第一次給本席的就是說內容啊就是他完全沒有參與任何活動後來改成說沒有參與你們補助的活動所以就是說那些活動他們有參加但是只是不是你們的補助那這樣第一次你們給本席的資訊在我的記者會前不就是他們說謊然後你們不知道嗎我好心想說你們不知道我想這個是他們帶給我們的資訊那我現在問您他第一次是不是說謊嘛"},{"start":593.585,"end":604.818,"text":"我想這個是可能他們表這個我們不敢確認他是不是刻意的還是說他不是刻意說謊所以他有說謊只是你不知道他是不是刻意嗎"},{"start":607.894,"end":636.131,"text":"好 那我要講的事情這麼重大一個性侵犯業界都知道漢陽北本劇團立委在詢問記者會前給你們空間還膽敢跟你們掩飾事實那之後你們有沒有再問他說你們第一次為什麼沒有告訴我們那個 您知道這件事情嗎因為我今天質詢前又繼續跟你們要資料啦是那他們有沒有給你一個解釋為什麼第一次不給你真實完整的資訊"},{"start":639.81,"end":655.346,"text":"沒有 您到現在都不知道 請關切這件事情如果黃子嬌從此不能夠看任何的 不能上節目的話這個是性侵犯 而且是十幾名學生那這件事情是非常嚴重的 好嗎如果一個漢陽北館劇團跟你們說謊的話"},{"start":658.869,"end":686.641,"text":"不讓他參加送你們補助的活動卻讓他上台表演在別的活動我認為這個漢陽北館劇團他在倫理上對性別平等的價值上真的據說不值得拿到我們公家的資源補助那是不是可以請您去調查了解一下他為什麼說謊 好不好好那另外就是因為時間的緣故客家電視台我現在覺得那個您是 您的身分是"},{"start":687.541,"end":711.38,"text":"委員好 我是台長台長喔 那您有沒有看到那天那個你們客家電視台我們邀請他來我們的記者會他當天說的話有我不知道你們是找一個不會說話的人來記者會讓我們執政黨的立委覺得非常的難堪喔就講一個好像完全聽不懂我們在編什麼為什麼不找一個了解狀況的人他分明就是在迴避有沒有參與排練的事實你們"},{"start":712,"end":727.487,"text":"在我今天質詢前給我的資料也完全迴避我們問的是人家人本 戲曲學院自己做的調查都有四名學生接到校友的邀請當天才知道是李詩佳"},{"start":728.647,"end":751.107,"text":"講的是排練那你們在跟我玩文字遊戲給我的公視今天的公視幫他背書你這個客家電視台的調查真的是講的是說沒有參加角色名單工作沒有我們講的是排練那你在玩文字遊戲說他沒有演出沒有掛名工作人員你覺得我這個立委是要跟你玩文字遊戲嗎"},{"start":753.26,"end":768.372,"text":"局長你有沒有看過給本席的你們的東西公文你同意這個公文的品質嗎報告委員確實在那一天的記者會之後我們同步採取了三個比較主要的行動除了聽到劇團的說法我們不排除就是"},{"start":768.812,"end":785.016,"text":"他有不是事實的可能所以我們協同公視的法務人員到他們講到的排練地點實地去敞刊那同時也跟三個主要關鍵的包括團長製作人還有在記者會上提到紅信的老師當面面談從早上9點到12點是在3月15號週六這個日子"},{"start":788.337,"end":803.868,"text":"那我們也接續的用公文的方式協請台灣戲曲學院以及教育部協助我們調查我知道你們都在公文往返啦那你們有沒有問他說到底有沒有讓學生跟這個性侵狼屍理屍排列就這麼簡單的事實陳述他跟你說沒有"},{"start":806.129,"end":821.277,"text":"是不是我們透過公文的方式也確實收到回函那他們不僅有這個台灣李源戲劇團的回函還有當時的導演以及你們都只能跟他們公文不能夠你們下面的節目只能跟他們公文不能問他說有沒有參與問永英說有沒有參與排演 排練我們有問他他說沒有"},{"start":825.999,"end":836.45,"text":"收到的資訊目前因為沒有辦法用單方的資訊來做驗證所以我們協請教育部或許他們那邊可以有比較多那個我想我們周圍站起來不想浪費大家時間部長你聽到他們調查的品質了"},{"start":842.176,"end":862.756,"text":"就是說不知道為什麼只能用公文公文都在迴避事實說沒有做別的事那可是公文都已經呈現很危險的資料要那位主角去跟這個理事請教身段請教什麼然後講得不清不楚我的中文不夠好看不懂到底有沒有碰面什麼之後只有電話那之前呢為什麼要玩這種文字遊戲你們這種調查品質文化部長請您讓"},{"start":867.58,"end":892.692,"text":"讓他們台長本身性別平等的訓練顯然不足文資剛剛那位是局長嘛 顯然不夠重視這件事我跟他說性侵十幾名戲曲學院終生不得聘任的老師那可以讓下面的人這樣子呼嚨我們大家浪費我的時間我們去年就揭曝這個事情今年又跟郭玉琴委員 今年三個立委今天我再度質詢 還是沒辦法得到答案"},{"start":893.132,"end":908.762,"text":"真的是非常非常對你們不夠重視這件事情非常的失望我相信這部長不瞭解這件事情部長可不可以給我一個檢討報告為什麼一個案子要花我們這麼多的時間他是杏青郎師十幾名學生欸部長可以給我一個檢討報告嗎我知道他們正在調查了可是這個過程真的讓人失望那多久內可以給我一個檢討報告"},{"start":922.795,"end":925.517,"text":"我要以文化部的名義給我一個檢討報告好嗎 沒問題那個兩個月還是一個月 部長兩個月好嗎好 兩個月好謝謝昭偉 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":631,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（11時58分）謝謝召委。有請部長、文資司司長跟客家電視台台長。","先請部長，後半段在問他們兩位。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["李部長遠：范委員，你好。"],["范委員雲：部長，你好。我想您到現在應該知道，就是林宅血案的遺址，依照文資法申請成為臺北市的史蹟被駁回，我有開記者會，因為我認為他們的理由和審查的意見前後矛盾，一方面說這個事情調查沒有明確，二方面又推給文化部，說不義遺址專法還沒有通過。事實上，如果根據我列出來的促轉會調查報告，血案已經非常清楚見證國家介入司法，情治單位國安局隱匿關鍵電話，對專案小組隱瞞，這都是促轉會的報告，所以情治國安介入司法，侵害人權，是明確的事實。對於這個部分，我覺得賴總統的高度非常的好，他在228當天發言承諾，請文化部啟動審議程序，將義光教會列為具有轉型正義意義的場所，加以保存維護，這是那一天賴總統的發言，臉書上都有。根據促轉會的任務總結報告，文化部應該要調查建立不義遺址，主管機關應成立審議會等等，然後才有保存，因為促轉會移交給文化部的工作就是保存不義遺址嘛。那部長應該可以肯定，保存不義遺址的話，當然要繼續調查，我知道總質詢的時候張雅琳委員也很關心這個議題，因為我們是一起開記者會的，那天部長您的回應是人權館已經在擬訂，由民間主動申請暫時替代不義遺址給予轉型正義意義場域名稱的方案，我覺得這是一個很好的開始，但是我回來查看總統的說法，我覺得您這個雖然是很好的開始，可是有點不符合總統的承諾，因為總統的意思，我們讀起來，是文化部主動要去做，文化部要啟動審議的程序，那你那邊就會變成說，人權會去訂出辦法，讓民間自己來提，我是覺得民間已經受挫了，義光教會好不容易整合他們的意見，主動對臺北市文化局提出申請，在這個時候，我覺得依照賴總統公開的發言，文化部應該要主動，不知道部長有沒有讀過促轉會的總結報告中關於不義遺址的那一章？就是文化部被交接的工作，有沒有？"],["李部長遠：有，那一段是我們的工作，對！。"],["范委員雲：裡面就講得非常清楚，為什麼一開始的時候沒有義光教會？是因為當時是以公有的財產為主，如果根據那個報告書，就是所謂的大量不幸發生的時候，這個大量也有包含對社會影響甚鉅的案件，基本上就是，以我們對促轉會的報告來講的話，義光教會完全符合這個意義，它對整個社會對我們民主化的過程有關鍵的影響，因為是社會矚目的案件，甚至是國際矚目。既然促轉會的報告都有這個部分了，那部長是不是可以承諾主動促成這件事？不要再等，萬一義光教會沒有來申請呢？是不是能夠更積極主動一點？"],["李部長遠：我們主動找過義光教會，我們剛才講到要民間來申請，是因為當年的不義遺址有一個規定，就是公有的場所我們可以去設定，私人的場所我們不能強迫，私人的場所要私人來申請，要經過同意，我們才能設，用同樣的法條，我們沒辦法強迫他設，所以當總統講完那個之後，我們人權館就主動去見了義光教會，是不是請我們的人權館館長跟你報告？"],["范委員雲：簡短就好，因為我待會還有另外一題。所以你們已經主動接觸義光教會了？"],["洪館長世芳：有，我們已經接觸義光教會了。"],["范委員雲：那這個審議的程序是不是能夠專案處理，儘快好嗎？"],["洪館長世芳：我們會主動來協助跟輔導。"],["范委員雲：好，那大概多久的時間內會有結果呢？審議的結果會出來。"],["洪館長世芳：以我們現在跟他們溝通的過程，事實上，他們對於這樣的做法還沒有一個共識出來。"],["范委員雲：就是如何保存，如何讓這個空間更能彰顯轉型的正義。"],["洪館長世芳：我們會主動來協助、會積極輔導。"],["范委員雲：既然你們已經接觸了，一個月內給我一個報告，好嗎？"],["洪館長世芳：好，沒問題。"],["范委員雲：希望能夠儘速確定不義遺址的地位，或者是具轉型正義意義的地位，好嗎？"],["洪館長世芳：好。OK。"],["范委員雲：好，OK。","部長，剛剛是問他一個月內給我報告，這件事情3個月內應該可以確定吧？"],["李部長遠：確定掛牌嗎？"],["范委員雲：就是確定義光教會是否具有轉型正義意義的一個官方的身分地位。"],["李部長遠：當初其實他想要跟政府爭取的是不義遺址，那政府把它退回來之後……"],["范委員雲：是臺北市文化局？"],["李部長遠：對。"],["范委員雲：不是政府，是臺北市文化局。"],["李部長遠：文化局退回來的時候，我們的確沒有通過不義遺址條例嘛。"],["范委員雲：對，但是你們還是可以繼續審定啊，對不對？"],["李部長遠：審定是正在進行的事，但是掛上不義遺址這件事情，如果這個條例沒有通過的話，我們只好另外想一個方式，就是總統說的那個……"],["范委員雲：轉型正義意義。"],["李部長遠：以具有轉型正義場域的這個名稱取代，但還是無法完全取代不義遺址，所以這方面我們還要和他們溝通。"],["范委員雲：部長，本席先打岔一下。其實詳讀那個部分就會發現，並沒有排除專法沒有通過就不能使用這個名稱，這個部分你們的法務人員可以去了解一下，好不好？"],["李部長遠：是，好。"],["范委員雲：先這樣。這件事三個月內可以定案吧？"],["李部長遠：三個月內給你一份報告。"],["范委員雲：好，OK，希望文化部儘快實現總統的承諾。第二個部分，本席想先請問文資局，你應該知道本席要問什麼事吧？本席覺得不能接受的事情是，去年3月我們就揭露，這15年來李姓狼師在戲曲學院性侵多名學生，您知道這件事的嚴重程度吧？是性侵耶！而且這是調查確立的，2024年6月戲曲學院就把他解聘，終身不能再聘為教師，可是至今他仍在客家戲曲界活躍，多次參與漢陽北管劇團的演出。","漢陽北管劇團長年受到文化資產局的補助，今年2月，戲曲學院的學生受洪姓校友邀請參加客家電視台節目演出，排練當天才知道是李師帶領。關於這部分，本席要先說一下文資局的部分，本席開記者會前就給你們空間和機會，因為我們並不是要找你們麻煩，可是在記者會之前，文資局給本席的回答是沒有，漢陽北管劇團告訴你們，他沒有參與任何相關活動。記者會後，你們給本席的資料改口了，說他沒有參與你們補助的活動。所以第一次是漢陽北管劇團說謊？還是你們在包庇他們？可不可以說明一下？"],["陳局長濟民：委員，經過上次的記者會之後，我們大概做了幾個動作，第一個，我們3月20日有發文給劇團，昨天也特別找團長當面面談。"],["范委員雲：那你現在可不可以說……"],["陳局長濟民：就在一個多小時以前，劇團已經正式在臉書上發布聲明書，他們是說……"],["范委員雲：本席簡單的問，你們第一次問漢陽北管劇團的時候，他們是不是說謊？你們第一次給本席的回復，就是他完全沒有參與任何活動，後來改成沒有參與你們補助的活動，意思就是說，那些活動他有參加，只不過那不是你們補助的活動。所以你們第一次給本席的資訊，就在本席開記者會之前，當時他們說謊，但是你們不知道，本席是好心，所以才說你們不知道。"],["陳局長濟民：這是他們給我們的資訊，大概不是很清楚。"],["范委員雲：本席現在問您，他們第一次回復的時候是不是說謊？"],["陳局長濟民：可能是他們表示的方式有問題，我們不敢確認他們是不是刻意的，還是他們在……"],["范委員雲：他們不是刻意說謊？所以他們有說謊，只是你不知道是不是刻意的？"],["陳局長濟民：是。"],["范委員雲：本席要說的是這麼重大的事件，還是一個性侵犯，而且是業界都知道的，立委召開記者會前還先詢問你們、給你們空間，但漢陽北管劇團卻對你們掩飾事實，之後你們有沒有問過他們，當時為什麼沒有告訴我們實情？您知道這件事情嗎？因為本席今天質詢前又向你們要資料了。他們有沒有給你一個解釋？為什麼第一次不給你們真實、完整的資訊？沒有喔？您到現在都不知道？請關切喔！","如果黃子佼從此不能上節目的話，這一位是性侵犯，而且還涉及十幾名學生，這件事情是非常嚴重的，好嗎？如果漢陽北管劇團對你們說謊，只是不讓他參加受你們補助的活動，卻讓他在別的活動上台表演，本席認為漢陽北管劇團在倫理上，或是就性別平等價值而言，真的不值得拿到公家的資源補助。是不是可以請您去調查、了解一下他們為什麼說謊？好不好？"],["陳局長濟民：好的。"],["范委員雲：因為時間的緣故，接下來談客家電視台的部分，您的身分是？"],["向台長盛言：委員好，我是台長。"],["范委員雲：你有沒有看到那天客家電視台的人，我們邀請他來參加記者會，還有他當天說的話？"],["向台長盛言：有。"],["范委員雲：不知道你們是不是特地找一個不會說話的人來參加記者會，讓執政黨的立委覺得非常難堪，因為他好像完全聽不懂我們在說什麼，為什麼不找一個了解狀況的人來參加？他分明就是在迴避有沒有參與排練的事實。今天質詢前，你們給本席的資料也是完全迴避，我們問的是，根據人本基金會對戲曲學院所做的調查，有四名學生接到校友邀請，當天才知道是到李師家。","這裡說的是排練，但你們和本席玩文字遊戲，因為今天公視幫他背書，客家電視台的調查是說沒有參加角色演出，我們說的是排練耶！你們卻在玩文字遊戲，說他沒有演出，沒有掛名工作人員，你覺得本席是在和你們玩文字遊戲嗎？台長，你有沒有看過你們給本席的公文？你覺得這樣的公文品質可以嗎？"],["向台長盛言：確實，在那一天的記者會之後，我們同步採取三個比較主要的行動，除了聽劇團的說法，因為我們不排除它有不是事實的可能，所以我們協同公視的法務人員到他們說的排練地點實地場勘，同時也和三個主要關鍵人物當面面談，包括團長、製作人，還有記者會上提到的洪姓老師，從早上9點到12點，就在3月15日這一天。我們也接續用公文的方式，協請臺灣戲曲學院以及教育部協助調查。"],["范委員雲：本席知道你們都在公文往返啦！你們有沒有問他，到底有沒有讓學生和性侵狼師李師排練？就這麼簡單的事實陳述，他們說沒有，是不是？"],["向台長盛言：我們透過公文的方式詢問，也確實收到回函，不僅有臺灣梨園戲劇坊的回函，還有當時的導演以及排練的老師……"],["范委員雲：你們只能和他們公文往返嗎？不能問他有沒有參與排練？"],["向台長盛言：有，我們有問他。"],["范委員雲：他說沒有？"],["向台長盛言：這是我們收到的資訊。因為目前沒有辦法用單方資訊做驗證，所以我們請教育部協助，或許他們那邊有比較多可以協助我們的地方。"],["范委員雲：召委站起來了，本席不想浪費大家時間。部長，你聽到他們的調查品質了，不知道為什麼只能用公文往返，而且公文都在迴避事實，只會說沒有做別的事。其實公文已經呈現很危險的資料，就是讓那位主角去和李師請教身段等等，但內容寫的不清不楚，也可能是本席的中文不夠好，看不懂到底有沒有碰面。又說之後只有通電話，那之前呢？為什麼要玩這種文字遊戲？這就是你們的調查品質。","文化部長，台長本身的性別平等訓練顯然不足，剛剛那位是文資局長嘛！也顯然不夠重視這件事。這是性侵十幾名戲曲學院的學生，被列為終身不得聘任的老師，竟然能讓下面的人這樣糊弄大家，浪費本席的時間。我們去年就揭爆這件事情，今年又和郭昱晴委員等三個立委提出來，今天本席再度質詢，還是沒有辦法得到答案，對於你們不夠重視這件事情，我們真的非常失望。","本席相信部長應該不了解這件事情，但是部長，可不可以給本席一份檢討報告？為什麼一個案子要花我們這麼多時間？他是性侵十幾名學生的狼師耶！部長，可以給本席一份檢討報告嗎？"],["李部長遠：公共電視董事會成立一個……"],["范委員雲：本席知道他們正在調查，可是這個過程真的讓人失望。"],["李部長遠：我會去了解，然後給您一份報告。"],["范委員雲：多久之內可以給本席一份檢討報告？以文化部的名義給本席一份檢討報告，好嗎？"],["李部長遠：OK，好，沒問題。"],["范委員雲：兩個月？還是一個月？部長。"],["李部長遠：兩個月好嗎？"],["范委員雲：好，兩個月。謝謝召委。"],["李部長遠：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員，部長請回。","接下來請王鴻薇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":144,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-4","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","萬美玲","林沛祥","劉書彬","葛如鈞","林月琴","陳秀寳","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","羅廷瑋","范雲","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳思瑤","高金素梅","李坤城","蔡易餘","葉元之","林倩綺","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜"],"page_start":75,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00002"}}}