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\"end\": 564.967, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 564.967, \"end\": 565.047, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 565.047, \"end\": 565.168, \"score\": 0.652}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"楊\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 565.168, \"end\": 565.188, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 565.188, \"end\": 565.208, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,274 --> 00:00:34,302\n謝謝主席我們邀請衛福部因為我們今天談少子化的對策那待會包括這個教育部以及勞動部要有你們的就請主動上來好不好我們爭取時間謝謝來市長少子化的對策呢行政院規劃我國少子化對策的計劃在選舉前托兒這個幼兒托育的呢推出了增加平價的名額\n\n2\n00:00:35,242 --> 00:00:58,994\n降低就學費用以及發放幼兒津貼納入0到6歲國家一起養的政策這個號稱是2.0的版本但是跟過去一樣就是只是繼續加碼我們看到從蔡政府到現在的賴政府成績是年年的負分因為我們看到數字會講話出現生育率與生育量都是連9年都在降\n\n3\n00:00:59,615 --> 00:01:01,098\n所以在這樣的政策無效的原因到底是什麼我們少子化的政策失效的對策又是什麼請做說明\n\n4\n00:01:10,246 --> 00:01:37,462\n感謝委員對於這個問題的關心我先跟你們報告就是說我剛剛有說就是說國際的一個同理其實基本上大概就是不拖就是那個人口研究2000年那篇最重要的一個研究就是說是要四個一個性別平等第二個工作家庭平衡第三個公托第四是這個津貼那這個是一個整個多元的一個策略那報告委員現在目前就是說這個部分我們現在目前也全力都在衝刺\n\n5\n00:01:38,182 --> 00:02:03,562\n那當然就是說委員您剛剛也說了就是說我們現在目前是年九年的一個降低但是我們這邊我們會全力來進行推動總理你說會全力的來檢討跟推動因為我們看到也是我們推出的未滿兩歲的幼兒公共化及准公\n\n6\n00:02:04,443 --> 00:02:21,870\n公共托育的補助呢那分別是加碼就七千到這個一萬三都很好但是本席要告訴你的就是說我們理性在討論事情您的政策方向結果論它是複分的沒有人願意看到這樣子的一個答案那換句話說必須積極去檢討\n\n7\n00:02:24,731 --> 00:02:45,428\n不管在2000年的事項這個項目怎麼樣也就是在結果你是負分的那這怎麼辦因為這個會影響到待會我們還要繼續討論它會影響到很多的問題產生所以我希望你們針對於這個向下目前我們除了加碼之外\n\n8\n00:02:46,008 --> 00:03:05,801\n我們還有什麼樣的方案我希望聽到的是這個真正的幫助我們的國家我們的社會跟家庭那你們是不是去研擬多久時間給本席你們的精進方案來多久時間包委現在目前這樣請告訴我多久時間沒關係你告訴我多久時間因為這個是陳時中政委他在協調的沒關係你告訴我多久時間好嗎\n\n9\n00:03:14,212 --> 00:03:31,111\n因為除了衛福部之外因為這個部分也有現在教育部還有勞動部所以市長你是個很有能力的人我願意這麼說你不敢這麼說你的原因就是什麼呢我們希望各政府部門目前答案是複分的\n\n10\n00:03:31,832 --> 00:03:58,087\n那現在政府就是各行其事沒有做整合的工作我希望把這個聲音給不管你認為是誰的我們希望你們去精進去精進好不好你們自己本身也可以嚴明這個方案出來縱使還要再給其他單位但是人就必須要做你們多久就你自己本身你們多久可以有那個精進方案\n\n11\n00:03:58,988 --> 00:04:12,142\n我們有一個方案出來我們可以繼續討論啊要不然我們今天每一個人在這邊問都得不到答案啊我們不希望如此嘛我回去齁我趕快也非常感謝委員多久時間你告訴我一個時間點沒關係看你多久時間好嗎好告訴我多久時間\n\n12\n00:04:23,353 --> 00:04:40,004\n來請告訴我多久時間嘛跟委員報告喔那因為少子女少子女化對策方案這個部分在行政院這邊是做一個統計請告訴我多久時間好嗎市長今年本來我們就會來做一個統計做一個檢討本來就是要檢討啊那你們多久時間你的草案方案可以出來市長\n\n13\n00:04:41,892 --> 00:04:58,044\n因為這個部分確實最後由行政院統籌來那你們自己各部會多久時間可以出來啊那所以這個部分的話確實我們比較我們真的比較不適合幫行政院來做一個不是幫行政院待會我們的教育部跟我們的衛福部\n\n14\n00:04:59,224 --> 00:05:19,810\n跟我們的這個國發會勞動部這個都息息相關嘛對不對本來就是要有人來整合嘛但是你各部會在執行當中你有什麼困難你看的答案是不好的我們要怎麼樣提出方案嘛對不對不可能行政院會開會你們不提出方案嘛\n\n15\n00:05:20,805 --> 00:05:30,197\n是嗎如果連這一點都沒有辦法來說明來應對多久時間那我們今天報告主席我們今天是要問什麼\n\n16\n00:05:32,774 --> 00:05:49,642\n對不對不能各行其事不去做整合的工作嘛要整合之前還必須要各起其事的你們提出方案嘛因為這個也剛剛說就是行政院那邊我們能夠負責本部這邊我們就本部這邊我們是不是要三個月之內\n\n17\n00:05:54,284 --> 00:05:55,145\n教育部在這裡因為會衍生什麼少子化大學震盪還有多少要退場啊\n\n18\n00:06:08,683 --> 00:06:24,855\n對不對這個非常嚴肅這環環相扣少此外另外一個最重要的重大效應大學可能因此崩盤2014年到現在台灣已經有15所以上私立大學走向退場或者是核定停辦\n\n19\n00:06:26,246 --> 00:06:49,564\n而在去年2024年有10所大專院校停辦或停照耶這麼嚴肅的議題有學者還預估2034年大學會受到最大的影響到時候可能會有10所的學校還要再退場耶我好緊張喔教育部評估的數字學者已經說明出來到底是真的假的我們如果這樣子要做什麼應對好請做說明\n\n20\n00:06:51,983 --> 00:07:15,359\n跟委員抱歉因為我們今天出席的主要是聚焦在少子女國家保護的領域少子女也會衍生啊越來越少啊國中也會影響高中也會影響你看我們的主席這麼英明把所有的向下權讓進來你把這個功課帶回去好不好應對像這樣子的一個方案好不好好接下來最後一個勞動部勞動部這個也非常的影響\n\n21\n00:07:20,002 --> 00:07:46,860\n勞動部少整換你的完善托育系統在我們的好的托育系統是重點是增加生育的意願對不對這也非常重要但是托育的問題沉重的支柱也是造成國人不願意生的所以在這樣的情況之下我們觀光如果是營造友善的托育空間推動企業托育系統來說那政府的動能似乎是不夠的因為依照我們的\n\n22\n00:07:48,561 --> 00:07:53,743\n這個性別平等法第23條的規定僱用受僱者100元以上的僱主他必須要提供第一個補乳室第二個補籍這個乳室第二個也就是托兒設施或者是適當的托兒這個設施那根據勞動部112年員工100名以上的單位有設立的會提供的僅有7成\n\n23\n00:08:13,351 --> 00:08:36,682\n那相信這個數字實際上會更低所以在這樣的情況之下我們有成長的空間所以我們看到這個不只是解決少子女化的問題國家跟雇主勞工提供的嬰幼兒以及兒童子女的適當托育措施我們也更應該要怎麼樣去保障\n\n24\n00:08:37,662 --> 00:08:55,535\n勞工工作權的一個適當措施對不對以韓國為例他除了提供貸款或者是租稅優惠的措施之外對於沒有執行的他們會強制的去輔導所以在這方面我也提出因為這個少子女化的面向\n\n25\n00:08:56,696 --> 00:09:22,163\n是要整體性的一個去規劃所以勞動部我也希望針對你們既然有這個芯片平等法的第23條規範你們也去精進我們要怎麼樣能夠更好或者去參考其他世界國家他們怎麼做而不是一成不變導致我們的答案都是複分的我們也不希望如此好好的滾動式的去精進方案好不好有談到滾動式精進方案請\n\n26\n00:09:23,223 --> 00:09:25,208\n把書面資料給本席我們一起繼續討論好不好謝謝好謝謝楊委員謝謝次長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7274\t34302\t謝謝主席我們邀請衛福部因為我們今天談少子化的對策那待會包括這個教育部以及勞動部要有你們的就請主動上來好不好我們爭取時間謝謝來市長少子化的對策呢行政院規劃我國少子化對策的計劃在選舉前托兒這個幼兒托育的呢推出了增加平價的名額\n35242\t58994\t降低就學費用以及發放幼兒津貼納入0到6歲國家一起養的政策這個號稱是2.0的版本但是跟過去一樣就是只是繼續加碼我們看到從蔡政府到現在的賴政府成績是年年的負分因為我們看到數字會講話出現生育率與生育量都是連9年都在降\n59615\t61098\t所以在這樣的政策無效的原因到底是什麼我們少子化的政策失效的對策又是什麼請做說明\n70246\t97462\t感謝委員對於這個問題的關心我先跟你們報告就是說我剛剛有說就是說國際的一個同理其實基本上大概就是不拖就是那個人口研究2000年那篇最重要的一個研究就是說是要四個一個性別平等第二個工作家庭平衡第三個公托第四是這個津貼那這個是一個整個多元的一個策略那報告委員現在目前就是說這個部分我們現在目前也全力都在衝刺\n98182\t123562\t那當然就是說委員您剛剛也說了就是說我們現在目前是年九年的一個降低但是我們這邊我們會全力來進行推動總理你說會全力的來檢討跟推動因為我們看到也是我們推出的未滿兩歲的幼兒公共化及准公\n124443\t141870\t公共托育的補助呢那分別是加碼就七千到這個一萬三都很好但是本席要告訴你的就是說我們理性在討論事情您的政策方向結果論它是複分的沒有人願意看到這樣子的一個答案那換句話說必須積極去檢討\n144731\t165428\t不管在2000年的事項這個項目怎麼樣也就是在結果你是負分的那這怎麼辦因為這個會影響到待會我們還要繼續討論它會影響到很多的問題產生所以我希望你們針對於這個向下目前我們除了加碼之外\n166008\t185801\t我們還有什麼樣的方案我希望聽到的是這個真正的幫助我們的國家我們的社會跟家庭那你們是不是去研擬多久時間給本席你們的精進方案來 多久時間包委現在目前這樣請告訴我多久時間沒關係你告訴我多久時間因為這個是陳時中政委他在協調的沒關係你告訴我多久時間好嗎\n194212\t211111\t因為除了衛福部之外因為這個部分也有現在教育部還有勞動部所以市長你是個很有能力的人我願意這麼說你不敢這麼說你的原因就是什麼呢我們希望各政府部門目前答案是複分的\n211832\t238087\t那現在政府就是各行其事沒有做整合的工作我希望把這個聲音給不管你認為是誰的我們希望你們去精進去精進好不好你們自己本身也可以嚴明這個方案出來縱使還要再給其他單位但是人就必須要做你們多久就你自己本身你們多久可以有那個精進方案\n238988\t252142\t我們有一個方案出來 我們可以繼續討論啊要不然我們今天每一個人在這邊問都得不到答案啊我們不希望如此嘛我回去齁 我趕快 也非常感謝委員多久時間 你告訴我一個時間點 沒關係看你多久時間好嗎好 告訴我多久時間\n263353\t280004\t來 請告訴我多久時間嘛跟委員報告喔 那因為少子女少子女化對策方案這個部分在行政院這邊是做一個統計請告訴我多久時間好嗎 市長今年本來我們就會來做一個統計 做一個檢討本來就是要檢討啊那你們多久時間 你的草案方案可以出來 市長\n281892\t298044\t因為這個部分確實最後由行政院統籌來那你們自己各部會多久時間可以出來啊那所以這個部分的話確實我們比較我們真的比較不適合幫行政院來做一個不是幫行政院待會我們的教育部跟我們的衛福部\n299224\t319810\t跟我們的這個國發會勞動部這個都息息相關嘛對不對本來就是要有人來整合嘛但是你各部會在執行當中你有什麼困難你看的答案是不好的我們要怎麼樣提出方案嘛對不對不可能行政院會開會你們不提出方案嘛\n320805\t330197\t是嗎如果連這一點都沒有辦法來說明來應對多久時間那我們今天報告主席我們今天是要問什麼\n332774\t349642\t對不對不能各行其事不去做整合的工作嘛要整合之前還必須要各起其事的你們提出方案嘛因為這個也剛剛說就是行政院那邊我們能夠負責本部這邊我們就本部這邊我們是不是要三個月之內\n354284\t355145\t教育部在這裡因為會衍生什麼少子化大學震盪還有多少要退場啊\n368683\t384855\t對不對 這個非常嚴肅這環環相扣少此外 另外一個最重要的重大效應大學可能因此崩盤2014年到現在台灣已經有15所以上私立大學走向退場或者是核定停辦\n386246\t409564\t而在去年2024年有10所大專院校停辦或停照耶這麼嚴肅的議題有學者還預估2034年大學會受到最大的影響到時候可能會有10所的學校還要再退場耶我好緊張喔教育部評估的數字學者已經說明出來到底是真的假的我們如果這樣子要做什麼應對好 請做說明\n411983\t435359\t跟委員抱歉 因為我們今天出席的主要是聚焦在少子女 國家保護的領域少子女也會衍生啊 越來越少啊 國中也會影響 高中也會影響你看我們的主席這麼英明 把所有的向下權讓進來你把這個功課帶回去好不好 應對像這樣子的一個方案 好不好好 接下來最後一個勞動部勞動部 這個也非常的影響\n440002\t466860\t勞動部少整換你的完善托育系統在我們的好的托育系統是重點是增加生育的意願對不對這也非常重要但是托育的問題沉重的支柱也是造成國人不願意生的所以在這樣的情況之下我們觀光如果是營造友善的托育空間推動企業托育系統來說那政府的動能似乎是不夠的因為依照我們的\n468561\t473743\t這個性別平等法第23條的規定僱用受僱者100元以上的僱主他必須要提供第一個補乳室第二個補籍這個乳室第二個也就是托兒設施或者是適當的托兒這個設施那根據勞動部112年員工100名以上的單位有設立的會提供的僅有7成\n493351\t516682\t那相信這個數字實際上會更低所以在這樣的情況之下我們有成長的空間所以我們看到這個不只是解決少子女化的問題國家跟雇主勞工提供的嬰幼兒以及兒童子女的適當托育措施我們也更應該要怎麼樣去保障\n517662\t535535\t勞工工作權的一個適當措施對不對以韓國為例他除了提供貸款或者是租稅優惠的措施之外對於沒有執行的他們會強制的去輔導所以在這方面我也提出因為這個少子女化的面向\n536696\t562163\t是要整體性的一個去規劃所以勞動部我也希望針對你們既然有這個芯片平等法的第23條規範你們也去精進我們要怎麼樣能夠更好或者去參考其他世界國家他們怎麼做而不是一成不變導致我們的答案都是複分的我們也不希望如此好好的滾動式的去精進方案好不好有談到滾動式精進方案請\n563223\t565208\t把書面資料給本席 我們一起繼續討論好不好 謝謝好 謝謝楊委員 謝謝次長\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們邀請衛福部因為我們今天談少子化的對策那待會包括這個教育部以及勞動部要有你們的就請主動上來好不好我們爭取時間謝謝來市長少子化的對策呢行政院規劃我國少子化對策的計劃在選舉前托兒這個幼兒托育的呢推出了增加平價的名額\n降低就學費用以及發放幼兒津貼納入0到6歲國家一起養的政策這個號稱是2.0的版本但是跟過去一樣就是只是繼續加碼我們看到從蔡政府到現在的賴政府成績是年年的負分因為我們看到數字會講話出現生育率與生育量都是連9年都在降\n所以在這樣的政策無效的原因到底是什麼我們少子化的政策失效的對策又是什麼請做說明\n感謝委員對於這個問題的關心我先跟你們報告就是說我剛剛有說就是說國際的一個同理其實基本上大概就是不拖就是那個人口研究2000年那篇最重要的一個研究就是說是要四個一個性別平等第二個工作家庭平衡第三個公托第四是這個津貼那這個是一個整個多元的一個策略那報告委員現在目前就是說這個部分我們現在目前也全力都在衝刺\n那當然就是說委員您剛剛也說了就是說我們現在目前是年九年的一個降低但是我們這邊我們會全力來進行推動總理你說會全力的來檢討跟推動因為我們看到也是我們推出的未滿兩歲的幼兒公共化及准公\n公共托育的補助呢那分別是加碼就七千到這個一萬三都很好但是本席要告訴你的就是說我們理性在討論事情您的政策方向結果論它是複分的沒有人願意看到這樣子的一個答案那換句話說必須積極去檢討\n不管在2000年的事項這個項目怎麼樣也就是在結果你是負分的那這怎麼辦因為這個會影響到待會我們還要繼續討論它會影響到很多的問題產生所以我希望你們針對於這個向下目前我們除了加碼之外\n我們還有什麼樣的方案我希望聽到的是這個真正的幫助我們的國家我們的社會跟家庭那你們是不是去研擬多久時間給本席你們的精進方案來 多久時間包委現在目前這樣請告訴我多久時間沒關係你告訴我多久時間因為這個是陳時中政委他在協調的沒關係你告訴我多久時間好嗎\n因為除了衛福部之外因為這個部分也有現在教育部還有勞動部所以市長你是個很有能力的人我願意這麼說你不敢這麼說你的原因就是什麼呢我們希望各政府部門目前答案是複分的\n那現在政府就是各行其事沒有做整合的工作我希望把這個聲音給不管你認為是誰的我們希望你們去精進去精進好不好你們自己本身也可以嚴明這個方案出來縱使還要再給其他單位但是人就必須要做你們多久就你自己本身你們多久可以有那個精進方案\n我們有一個方案出來 我們可以繼續討論啊要不然我們今天每一個人在這邊問都得不到答案啊我們不希望如此嘛我回去齁 我趕快 也非常感謝委員多久時間 你告訴我一個時間點 沒關係看你多久時間好嗎好 告訴我多久時間\n來 請告訴我多久時間嘛跟委員報告喔 那因為少子女少子女化對策方案這個部分在行政院這邊是做一個統計請告訴我多久時間好嗎 市長今年本來我們就會來做一個統計 做一個檢討本來就是要檢討啊那你們多久時間 你的草案方案可以出來 市長\n因為這個部分確實最後由行政院統籌來那你們自己各部會多久時間可以出來啊那所以這個部分的話確實我們比較我們真的比較不適合幫行政院來做一個不是幫行政院待會我們的教育部跟我們的衛福部\n跟我們的這個國發會勞動部這個都息息相關嘛對不對本來就是要有人來整合嘛但是你各部會在執行當中你有什麼困難你看的答案是不好的我們要怎麼樣提出方案嘛對不對不可能行政院會開會你們不提出方案嘛\n是嗎如果連這一點都沒有辦法來說明來應對多久時間那我們今天報告主席我們今天是要問什麼\n對不對不能各行其事不去做整合的工作嘛要整合之前還必須要各起其事的你們提出方案嘛因為這個也剛剛說就是行政院那邊我們能夠負責本部這邊我們就本部這邊我們是不是要三個月之內\n教育部在這裡因為會衍生什麼少子化大學震盪還有多少要退場啊\n對不對 這個非常嚴肅這環環相扣少此外 另外一個最重要的重大效應大學可能因此崩盤2014年到現在台灣已經有15所以上私立大學走向退場或者是核定停辦\n而在去年2024年有10所大專院校停辦或停照耶這麼嚴肅的議題有學者還預估2034年大學會受到最大的影響到時候可能會有10所的學校還要再退場耶我好緊張喔教育部評估的數字學者已經說明出來到底是真的假的我們如果這樣子要做什麼應對好 請做說明\n跟委員抱歉 因為我們今天出席的主要是聚焦在少子女 國家保護的領域少子女也會衍生啊 越來越少啊 國中也會影響 高中也會影響你看我們的主席這麼英明 把所有的向下權讓進來你把這個功課帶回去好不好 應對像這樣子的一個方案 好不好好 接下來最後一個勞動部勞動部 這個也非常的影響\n勞動部少整換你的完善托育系統在我們的好的托育系統是重點是增加生育的意願對不對這也非常重要但是托育的問題沉重的支柱也是造成國人不願意生的所以在這樣的情況之下我們觀光如果是營造友善的托育空間推動企業托育系統來說那政府的動能似乎是不夠的因為依照我們的\n這個性別平等法第23條的規定僱用受僱者100元以上的僱主他必須要提供第一個補乳室第二個補籍這個乳室第二個也就是托兒設施或者是適當的托兒這個設施那根據勞動部112年員工100名以上的單位有設立的會提供的僅有7成\n那相信這個數字實際上會更低所以在這樣的情況之下我們有成長的空間所以我們看到這個不只是解決少子女化的問題國家跟雇主勞工提供的嬰幼兒以及兒童子女的適當托育措施我們也更應該要怎麼樣去保障\n勞工工作權的一個適當措施對不對以韓國為例他除了提供貸款或者是租稅優惠的措施之外對於沒有執行的他們會強制的去輔導所以在這方面我也提出因為這個少子女化的面向\n是要整體性的一個去規劃所以勞動部我也希望針對你們既然有這個芯片平等法的第23條規範你們也去精進我們要怎麼樣能夠更好或者去參考其他世界國家他們怎麼做而不是一成不變導致我們的答案都是複分的我們也不希望如此好好的滾動式的去精進方案好不好有談到滾動式精進方案請\n把書面資料給本席 我們一起繼續討論好不好 謝謝好 謝謝楊委員 謝謝次長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.274 --> 00:34.302\n謝謝主席我們邀請衛福部因為我們今天談少子化的對策那待會包括這個教育部以及勞動部要有你們的就請主動上來好不好我們爭取時間謝謝來市長少子化的對策呢行政院規劃我國少子化對策的計劃在選舉前托兒這個幼兒托育的呢推出了增加平價的名額\n\n00:35.242 --> 00:58.994\n降低就學費用以及發放幼兒津貼納入0到6歲國家一起養的政策這個號稱是2.0的版本但是跟過去一樣就是只是繼續加碼我們看到從蔡政府到現在的賴政府成績是年年的負分因為我們看到數字會講話出現生育率與生育量都是連9年都在降\n\n00:59.615 --> 01:01.098\n所以在這樣的政策無效的原因到底是什麼我們少子化的政策失效的對策又是什麼請做說明\n\n01:10.246 --> 01:37.462\n感謝委員對於這個問題的關心我先跟你們報告就是說我剛剛有說就是說國際的一個同理其實基本上大概就是不拖就是那個人口研究2000年那篇最重要的一個研究就是說是要四個一個性別平等第二個工作家庭平衡第三個公托第四是這個津貼那這個是一個整個多元的一個策略那報告委員現在目前就是說這個部分我們現在目前也全力都在衝刺\n\n01:38.182 --> 02:03.562\n那當然就是說委員您剛剛也說了就是說我們現在目前是年九年的一個降低但是我們這邊我們會全力來進行推動總理你說會全力的來檢討跟推動因為我們看到也是我們推出的未滿兩歲的幼兒公共化及准公\n\n02:04.443 --> 02:21.870\n公共托育的補助呢那分別是加碼就七千到這個一萬三都很好但是本席要告訴你的就是說我們理性在討論事情您的政策方向結果論它是複分的沒有人願意看到這樣子的一個答案那換句話說必須積極去檢討\n\n02:24.731 --> 02:45.428\n不管在2000年的事項這個項目怎麼樣也就是在結果你是負分的那這怎麼辦因為這個會影響到待會我們還要繼續討論它會影響到很多的問題產生所以我希望你們針對於這個向下目前我們除了加碼之外\n\n02:46.008 --> 03:05.801\n我們還有什麼樣的方案我希望聽到的是這個真正的幫助我們的國家我們的社會跟家庭那你們是不是去研擬多久時間給本席你們的精進方案來多久時間包委現在目前這樣請告訴我多久時間沒關係你告訴我多久時間因為這個是陳時中政委他在協調的沒關係你告訴我多久時間好嗎\n\n03:14.212 --> 03:31.111\n因為除了衛福部之外因為這個部分也有現在教育部還有勞動部所以市長你是個很有能力的人我願意這麼說你不敢這麼說你的原因就是什麼呢我們希望各政府部門目前答案是複分的\n\n03:31.832 --> 03:58.087\n那現在政府就是各行其事沒有做整合的工作我希望把這個聲音給不管你認為是誰的我們希望你們去精進去精進好不好你們自己本身也可以嚴明這個方案出來縱使還要再給其他單位但是人就必須要做你們多久就你自己本身你們多久可以有那個精進方案\n\n03:58.988 --> 04:12.142\n我們有一個方案出來我們可以繼續討論啊要不然我們今天每一個人在這邊問都得不到答案啊我們不希望如此嘛我回去齁我趕快也非常感謝委員多久時間你告訴我一個時間點沒關係看你多久時間好嗎好告訴我多久時間\n\n04:23.353 --> 04:40.004\n來請告訴我多久時間嘛跟委員報告喔那因為少子女少子女化對策方案這個部分在行政院這邊是做一個統計請告訴我多久時間好嗎市長今年本來我們就會來做一個統計做一個檢討本來就是要檢討啊那你們多久時間你的草案方案可以出來市長\n\n04:41.892 --> 04:58.044\n因為這個部分確實最後由行政院統籌來那你們自己各部會多久時間可以出來啊那所以這個部分的話確實我們比較我們真的比較不適合幫行政院來做一個不是幫行政院待會我們的教育部跟我們的衛福部\n\n04:59.224 --> 05:19.810\n跟我們的這個國發會勞動部這個都息息相關嘛對不對本來就是要有人來整合嘛但是你各部會在執行當中你有什麼困難你看的答案是不好的我們要怎麼樣提出方案嘛對不對不可能行政院會開會你們不提出方案嘛\n\n05:20.805 --> 05:30.197\n是嗎如果連這一點都沒有辦法來說明來應對多久時間那我們今天報告主席我們今天是要問什麼\n\n05:32.774 --> 05:49.642\n對不對不能各行其事不去做整合的工作嘛要整合之前還必須要各起其事的你們提出方案嘛因為這個也剛剛說就是行政院那邊我們能夠負責本部這邊我們就本部這邊我們是不是要三個月之內\n\n05:54.284 --> 05:55.145\n教育部在這裡因為會衍生什麼少子化大學震盪還有多少要退場啊\n\n06:08.683 --> 06:24.855\n對不對這個非常嚴肅這環環相扣少此外另外一個最重要的重大效應大學可能因此崩盤2014年到現在台灣已經有15所以上私立大學走向退場或者是核定停辦\n\n06:26.246 --> 06:49.564\n而在去年2024年有10所大專院校停辦或停照耶這麼嚴肅的議題有學者還預估2034年大學會受到最大的影響到時候可能會有10所的學校還要再退場耶我好緊張喔教育部評估的數字學者已經說明出來到底是真的假的我們如果這樣子要做什麼應對好請做說明\n\n06:51.983 --> 07:15.359\n跟委員抱歉因為我們今天出席的主要是聚焦在少子女國家保護的領域少子女也會衍生啊越來越少啊國中也會影響高中也會影響你看我們的主席這麼英明把所有的向下權讓進來你把這個功課帶回去好不好應對像這樣子的一個方案好不好好接下來最後一個勞動部勞動部這個也非常的影響\n\n07:20.002 --> 07:46.860\n勞動部少整換你的完善托育系統在我們的好的托育系統是重點是增加生育的意願對不對這也非常重要但是托育的問題沉重的支柱也是造成國人不願意生的所以在這樣的情況之下我們觀光如果是營造友善的托育空間推動企業托育系統來說那政府的動能似乎是不夠的因為依照我們的\n\n07:48.561 --> 07:53.743\n這個性別平等法第23條的規定僱用受僱者100元以上的僱主他必須要提供第一個補乳室第二個補籍這個乳室第二個也就是托兒設施或者是適當的托兒這個設施那根據勞動部112年員工100名以上的單位有設立的會提供的僅有7成\n\n08:13.351 --> 08:36.682\n那相信這個數字實際上會更低所以在這樣的情況之下我們有成長的空間所以我們看到這個不只是解決少子女化的問題國家跟雇主勞工提供的嬰幼兒以及兒童子女的適當托育措施我們也更應該要怎麼樣去保障\n\n08:37.662 --> 08:55.535\n勞工工作權的一個適當措施對不對以韓國為例他除了提供貸款或者是租稅優惠的措施之外對於沒有執行的他們會強制的去輔導所以在這方面我也提出因為這個少子女化的面向\n\n08:56.696 --> 09:22.163\n是要整體性的一個去規劃所以勞動部我也希望針對你們既然有這個芯片平等法的第23條規範你們也去精進我們要怎麼樣能夠更好或者去參考其他世界國家他們怎麼做而不是一成不變導致我們的答案都是複分的我們也不希望如此好好的滾動式的去精進方案好不好有談到滾動式精進方案請\n\n09:23.223 --> 09:25.208\n把書面資料給本席我們一起繼續討論好不好謝謝好謝謝楊委員謝謝次長\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.274,"end":34.302,"text":"謝謝主席我們邀請衛福部因為我們今天談少子化的對策那待會包括這個教育部以及勞動部要有你們的就請主動上來好不好我們爭取時間謝謝來市長少子化的對策呢行政院規劃我國少子化對策的計劃在選舉前托兒這個幼兒托育的呢推出了增加平價的名額"},{"start":35.242,"end":58.994,"text":"降低就學費用以及發放幼兒津貼納入0到6歲國家一起養的政策這個號稱是2.0的版本但是跟過去一樣就是只是繼續加碼我們看到從蔡政府到現在的賴政府成績是年年的負分因為我們看到數字會講話出現生育率與生育量都是連9年都在降"},{"start":59.615,"end":61.098,"text":"所以在這樣的政策無效的原因到底是什麼我們少子化的政策失效的對策又是什麼請做說明"},{"start":70.246,"end":97.462,"text":"感謝委員對於這個問題的關心我先跟你們報告就是說我剛剛有說就是說國際的一個同理其實基本上大概就是不拖就是那個人口研究2000年那篇最重要的一個研究就是說是要四個一個性別平等第二個工作家庭平衡第三個公托第四是這個津貼那這個是一個整個多元的一個策略那報告委員現在目前就是說這個部分我們現在目前也全力都在衝刺"},{"start":98.182,"end":123.562,"text":"那當然就是說委員您剛剛也說了就是說我們現在目前是年九年的一個降低但是我們這邊我們會全力來進行推動總理你說會全力的來檢討跟推動因為我們看到也是我們推出的未滿兩歲的幼兒公共化及准公"},{"start":124.443,"end":141.87,"text":"公共托育的補助呢那分別是加碼就七千到這個一萬三都很好但是本席要告訴你的就是說我們理性在討論事情您的政策方向結果論它是複分的沒有人願意看到這樣子的一個答案那換句話說必須積極去檢討"},{"start":144.731,"end":165.428,"text":"不管在2000年的事項這個項目怎麼樣也就是在結果你是負分的那這怎麼辦因為這個會影響到待會我們還要繼續討論它會影響到很多的問題產生所以我希望你們針對於這個向下目前我們除了加碼之外"},{"start":166.008,"end":185.801,"text":"我們還有什麼樣的方案我希望聽到的是這個真正的幫助我們的國家我們的社會跟家庭那你們是不是去研擬多久時間給本席你們的精進方案來 多久時間包委現在目前這樣請告訴我多久時間沒關係你告訴我多久時間因為這個是陳時中政委他在協調的沒關係你告訴我多久時間好嗎"},{"start":194.212,"end":211.111,"text":"因為除了衛福部之外因為這個部分也有現在教育部還有勞動部所以市長你是個很有能力的人我願意這麼說你不敢這麼說你的原因就是什麼呢我們希望各政府部門目前答案是複分的"},{"start":211.832,"end":238.087,"text":"那現在政府就是各行其事沒有做整合的工作我希望把這個聲音給不管你認為是誰的我們希望你們去精進去精進好不好你們自己本身也可以嚴明這個方案出來縱使還要再給其他單位但是人就必須要做你們多久就你自己本身你們多久可以有那個精進方案"},{"start":238.988,"end":252.142,"text":"我們有一個方案出來 我們可以繼續討論啊要不然我們今天每一個人在這邊問都得不到答案啊我們不希望如此嘛我回去齁 我趕快 也非常感謝委員多久時間 你告訴我一個時間點 沒關係看你多久時間好嗎好 告訴我多久時間"},{"start":263.353,"end":280.004,"text":"來 請告訴我多久時間嘛跟委員報告喔 那因為少子女少子女化對策方案這個部分在行政院這邊是做一個統計請告訴我多久時間好嗎 市長今年本來我們就會來做一個統計 做一個檢討本來就是要檢討啊那你們多久時間 你的草案方案可以出來 市長"},{"start":281.892,"end":298.044,"text":"因為這個部分確實最後由行政院統籌來那你們自己各部會多久時間可以出來啊那所以這個部分的話確實我們比較我們真的比較不適合幫行政院來做一個不是幫行政院待會我們的教育部跟我們的衛福部"},{"start":299.224,"end":319.81,"text":"跟我們的這個國發會勞動部這個都息息相關嘛對不對本來就是要有人來整合嘛但是你各部會在執行當中你有什麼困難你看的答案是不好的我們要怎麼樣提出方案嘛對不對不可能行政院會開會你們不提出方案嘛"},{"start":320.805,"end":330.197,"text":"是嗎如果連這一點都沒有辦法來說明來應對多久時間那我們今天報告主席我們今天是要問什麼"},{"start":332.774,"end":349.642,"text":"對不對不能各行其事不去做整合的工作嘛要整合之前還必須要各起其事的你們提出方案嘛因為這個也剛剛說就是行政院那邊我們能夠負責本部這邊我們就本部這邊我們是不是要三個月之內"},{"start":354.284,"end":355.145,"text":"教育部在這裡因為會衍生什麼少子化大學震盪還有多少要退場啊"},{"start":368.683,"end":384.855,"text":"對不對 這個非常嚴肅這環環相扣少此外 另外一個最重要的重大效應大學可能因此崩盤2014年到現在台灣已經有15所以上私立大學走向退場或者是核定停辦"},{"start":386.246,"end":409.564,"text":"而在去年2024年有10所大專院校停辦或停照耶這麼嚴肅的議題有學者還預估2034年大學會受到最大的影響到時候可能會有10所的學校還要再退場耶我好緊張喔教育部評估的數字學者已經說明出來到底是真的假的我們如果這樣子要做什麼應對好 請做說明"},{"start":411.983,"end":435.359,"text":"跟委員抱歉 因為我們今天出席的主要是聚焦在少子女 國家保護的領域少子女也會衍生啊 越來越少啊 國中也會影響 高中也會影響你看我們的主席這麼英明 把所有的向下權讓進來你把這個功課帶回去好不好 應對像這樣子的一個方案 好不好好 接下來最後一個勞動部勞動部 這個也非常的影響"},{"start":440.002,"end":466.86,"text":"勞動部少整換你的完善托育系統在我們的好的托育系統是重點是增加生育的意願對不對這也非常重要但是托育的問題沉重的支柱也是造成國人不願意生的所以在這樣的情況之下我們觀光如果是營造友善的托育空間推動企業托育系統來說那政府的動能似乎是不夠的因為依照我們的"},{"start":468.561,"end":473.743,"text":"這個性別平等法第23條的規定僱用受僱者100元以上的僱主他必須要提供第一個補乳室第二個補籍這個乳室第二個也就是托兒設施或者是適當的托兒這個設施那根據勞動部112年員工100名以上的單位有設立的會提供的僅有7成"},{"start":493.351,"end":516.682,"text":"那相信這個數字實際上會更低所以在這樣的情況之下我們有成長的空間所以我們看到這個不只是解決少子女化的問題國家跟雇主勞工提供的嬰幼兒以及兒童子女的適當托育措施我們也更應該要怎麼樣去保障"},{"start":517.662,"end":535.535,"text":"勞工工作權的一個適當措施對不對以韓國為例他除了提供貸款或者是租稅優惠的措施之外對於沒有執行的他們會強制的去輔導所以在這方面我也提出因為這個少子女化的面向"},{"start":536.696,"end":562.163,"text":"是要整體性的一個去規劃所以勞動部我也希望針對你們既然有這個芯片平等法的第23條規範你們也去精進我們要怎麼樣能夠更好或者去參考其他世界國家他們怎麼做而不是一成不變導致我們的答案都是複分的我們也不希望如此好好的滾動式的去精進方案好不好有談到滾動式精進方案請"},{"start":563.223,"end":565.208,"text":"把書面資料給本席 我們一起繼續討論好不好 謝謝好 謝謝楊委員 謝謝次長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1463,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時46分）謝謝主席，我們邀請衛福部。"],["主席：請次長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為我們今天談少子化的對策，待會包括教育部以及勞動部，有你們的就請主動上來，好不好？我們爭取時間，謝謝。"],["呂次長建德：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長，行政院規劃我國少子化對策的計畫，為學齡前幼兒托育推出增加平價的名額、降低就學費用以及發放育兒津貼，納入0到6歲國家一起養的政策。這個號稱是2.0的版本，但是跟過去一樣，就只是繼續加碼，我們看到從蔡政府到現在的賴政府，成績是年年負分，因為數字會講話，生育率與生育量都是連9年在降，該政策無效的原因到底是什麼？我們對於少子化政策失效的對策又是什麼？請做說明。"],["呂次長建德：感謝委員對這個問題的關心，我剛剛有提到國際的通例，就是2000年那篇最重要的人口研究，其中有四點，一、性別平等，二、工作家庭平衡，三、公托，四、津貼，以上整體是一個多元的策略。這個部分我們目前也都在全力衝刺，當然委員您剛剛有提到，我們生育率是連9年降低，但是我們這邊會全力進行推動。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長，你終於說會全力的檢討跟推動，因為我們看到，我們推出未滿2歲的幼兒公共化及準公共托育的補助分別是加碼7,000元到1萬3,000元，都很好。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但本席要告訴你的是，我們理性討論事情，您的政策方向就結果論而言是負分的，沒有人願意看到這樣的答案，換句話說，必須積極去檢討，不管在2000年的項目怎麼樣，在結果你是負分的，這怎麼辦？因為這會影響到待會我們還要繼續討論的，會影響到很多的問題產生。所以我希望你們針對這個項下，目前除了加碼之外，還有什麼樣的方案？我希望聽到的是這個，真正來幫助我們的國家、社會跟家庭。能否請你們去研擬，多久時間給本席你們的精進方案？"],["呂次長建德：目前是這樣，因為這個是屬於……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請告訴我多久時間？沒關係，你告訴我多久時間？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，因為這個是陳時中政委他在協調……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，沒關係，你告訴我多久時間好嗎？"],["呂次長建德：因為除了衛福部之外，另外也牽涉到教育部還有勞動部……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長，你是很有能力的人。"],["呂次長建德：不敢、不敢。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我願意這麼說你的原因是什麼呢？我們希望各政府部門，目前答案是負分的，現在的政府就是各行其是，沒有做整合的工作，我們希望把這個聲音傳達給相關權責單位，我們希望你們去精進，好不好？"],["呂次長建德：好，報告委員，這樣好了……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們自己本身也可以研擬方案出來。"],["呂次長建德：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：縱使還要再給其他單位，但仍舊必須要做。就你自己本身，你們多久可以有精進方案？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，這樣好不好……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你有一個方案出來，我們可以繼續討論啊！要不然今天每一個人在這邊問都得不到答案啊！我們不希望如此嘛！"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，這樣好不好？我回去會趕快，也非常感謝委員的關心。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久時間？你告訴我一個時間點，沒關係，看你要多久時間，好嗎？告訴我多久時間。"],["周代理署長道君：跟委員報告，因為少子女化對策方案這個部分，在行政院這邊是做一個統籌的處理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長，請告訴我多久時間好嗎？"],["周代理署長道君：今年我們本來就會來做一個通盤檢討。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是啊！本來就是要檢討啊！"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長，多久時間你的草案、方案可以出來？"],["周代理署長道君：因為這個部分最後確實是由行政院統籌並跨部會來處理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你們自己各部會多久時間可以出來啊！"],["周代理署長道君：所以這個部分的話，確實我們真的比較不適合幫行政院來做……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是幫行政院！教育部跟國發會、勞動部，都是息息相關，本來就是要有人來整合嘛！但是各部會在執行當中，你有什麼困難，你看到答案是不好的，你們要怎麼樣提出方案嘛！對不對？不可能行政院院會開會你們不提出方案？如果連這一點都沒有辦法來說明、來應對，報告主席，我們今天是要問什麼？對不對？不能各行其是，不去做整合的工作嘛！要整合之前，你們各部會還是必須提出方案嘛！對不對？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，這樣好不好？剛剛是說由行政院那邊來整合，我們能夠負責的是本部這邊……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，當然啊！"],["呂次長建德：就本部這邊，我們是不是在3個月之內跟委員報告？好不好？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，這樣就對了！來，教育部。"],["呂次長建德：我們就本部自己本身的政策來研擬，然後給委員一個報告，好不好？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，我們一起來加油。"],["呂次長建德：感謝委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：教育部在這裡，少子化會衍生大學震盪，還有多少要退場啊！對不對？這個非常嚴肅耶！這個是環環相扣；少子化另外一個最重要的重大效應是大學可能因此崩盤，自2014年到現在，臺灣已經有15所以上私立大學走向退場或者是核定停辦，而在去（2024）年有4所大專院校停辦或停招，這麼嚴肅的議題，有學者還預估2034年後大學會受到最大的影響，到時候可能會有10所學校還要再退場耶！我好緊張哦！教育部，評估的數字學者已經說明，到底是真的假的？如果這樣子我們要做什麼應對？請做說明。"],["許副署長麗娟：跟委員抱歉，因為我們今天出席主要是聚焦在少子女化，國教署負責……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！少子女化也會衍生啊！越來越少啊！國中也會影響，高中也會影響，你看我們的主席這麼英明，把所有的項下全拉進來，你把這個功課帶回去，好不好？"],["許副署長麗娟：是，我們再轉交給高教司跟技職司。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：應對像這樣子的一個方案，好不好？","最後一個是勞動部，這個也非常的影響。勞動部，應對少子化，完善托育系統、好的托育系統是重點，會增加生育的意願，對不對？這個非常重要。但是托育問題的沉重支出也是造成國人不願意生的原因，所以在這樣的情況之下，我們如果光是以營造友善托育空間、推動企業托育系統來說，政府的動能似乎是不夠的。","依照性別工作平等法第二十三條的規定，僱用受僱者100人以上的雇主，他必須要提供第一個，哺（集）乳室；第二個，托兒設施或者是適當的托兒措施。但根據勞動部統計，112年員工100名以上的單位，有設立或提供的僅有七成，相信這個數字實際上會更低啦！在這樣的情況之下，我們有成長的空間，所以我們看到，這個不只是解決少子女化的問題，國家及雇主提供給勞工的嬰幼兒以及兒童子女適當的托育措施，我們也更應該要去保障勞工工作權的適當措施，對不對？","以韓國為例，它除了提供貸款或者是租稅優惠的措施之外，對於沒有執行的他們會強制去輔導，所以在這一方面我也提出，因為少子女化的面向是要整體性的去規劃，既然勞動部你們有性別工作平等法第二十三條的規範，我希望你們也去精進，怎麼樣能夠更好，或者去參考世界其他國家怎麼做，而不是一成不變，導致我們的答案都是負分的，本席絕對不希望如此。"],["李次長健鴻：我們都有進場輔導。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好好地滾動式地去精進方案，好不好？"],["李次長健鴻：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有談到滾動式精進方案，請把書面資料給本席。"],["李次長健鴻：瞭解，謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們一起繼續討論，好不好？"],["李次長健鴻：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。"],["李次長健鴻：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊委員，謝謝次長。","接續我們請洪孟楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-4","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","黃秀芳","劉建國","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","張雅琳","楊曜","李坤城","麥玉珍","陳瑩","鄭正鈐","黃捷","林德福","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、國家發展委員會、教育部、法務部針對「少子女化衝擊，如何營造\n友善托育環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143301_00001"}}}